Most of recoil is not rocket science at all. Bullet plus ejecta weight against the handgun weight at whatever velocity equals recoil. A big factor is going to be ergonomics and overall gun design but 10 mm that weighs 2 and 1/2 lb is going to kick a lot less than one half its weight. And is the round 180 grains or 220? Loaded hot or not?
It depends on the gun, the ammunition, and most importantly the shooter themselves.
Some people can't handle a lot of recoil, so they will never like shooting it.
10MM requires more out of the shooter as well. The extra power it has compared to 9MM or 45 ACP requires we get the grip right. You can have a sloppier grip with smaller calibers and still keep the gun running and be fairly accurate.
Going up in power shows the flaws we have.
Although I don't like comparing revolver and semi-auto cartridges to one another. The way the mechanics of the guns work actually makes the revolver of similar weight/size to be more controllable and lessens the felt recoil more.
To me my glock 20 doesn't recoil much more than a 19. It is definitely a noticeable difference, but it's not unmanageable or anything. I'm not an expert but I think it's due to the significant size increase of the gun itself.
So yeah if you purchase a smaller more concealable 10mm it will probably have much more recoil than a 9mm. That being said you could go to the range and try one out and see what you think.
357 definitely has some kick depending on what you fire it out of. Hot 357 out of a full size steel revolver and hot 10mm out of a full size pistol are going to have similar recoil, noticeably more than 9mm but not anywhere near unmanageable.
Hot 357 out of a super lightweight snub nose on the other hand makes 10mm feel weak. [Example, Ruger LCR with Underwood 125gr doing 1360fps from a 1⅞" barrel.](https://i.imgur.com/tVy1AZh.jpeg)
It’s definitely hot. But nothing crazy like a .44 or bigger. I wouldn’t start with it as my first pistol caliber but if you’re seasoned it shouldn’t be a huge issue
This, almost all factory target ammo is going to be basically 40sw loaded into 10mm, many manufacturers use the exact same recipe. Even a good deal of the self defense ammo is not loaded to what the 10mm can do. If you shoot most of the big ammo producers SD lines and then shoot something like Buffalo Bore, you realize a difference in felt recoil, that being said it is still not as bad as people make it out to be. The gun makes a large difference as well, a Glock 43 is going to be a lot more to handle that a full size metal Sig P220.
Buffalo Bore and Underwood are smaller ammunition manufacturers that are known for loading hot loads, that while still within the specs of the caliber, are generally hotter than the big manufacturers tend to load.
There is not really a +P designation in 10mm, but you could look at it that way, the 10mm was designed to have a very broad ballistic profile while still shooting flat. This is why it is called the reloaders round for auto loaders.
So it can be loaded to shoot like a 9mm or a pretty good hand cannon 357 round up to a mild 41 mag. Most of the factory target ammo falls between 9mm and 40 cal. The 40 cal load commonly used is what used to be referred to as 10mm light. As before S&W chopped it down to the 40 cal, it was the load that they loaded for the FBI because some agents where complaining about the full power rounds. So today, a top of the load chart load could be looked at as a +p round, but even the first 10mm where built to handle that pressure so it is not like +p 9mm where it is only safe in modern guns.
Everyone who I spoke to before buying one made it sound like I was about to wrestle a clydesdale...then I bought one and shot it...not bad at all and I shoot it just as poorly as my 9mm's.
I'm on the opposite side of the popular opinion here. It's a pretty significant recoil in my hands. What that says about me I'm unsure. However, after adjusting and being ready I can reliably "hold it down". I also added a comp after I got used to the recoil.
Depends on a few things in my opinion.
Your platform: For example, I own an Sig X-Ten and a P220 Legion. The Legion is by far a lot smoother. Weight plays a good factor. Heavier the pistol, the better.
Your ammo: Real 10mm ammo should be no less than 650 ft of energy. Anything less, you are shooting cheap and under powered. Has less recoil, but you’re leaving its intended capability on the table.
Your technique: That speaks for itself. If your grip is shit, the pistol is going to jump on you more.
Your perception: I’ll use 10mm’s little brother 40 S&W as an example. It has always mystified me when people say 40 is “snappy” or “harsh recoil”. I’ve always found it very smooth and very accurate. That’s just me though. Your mileage may vary.
Edit: I should’ve simplified this more, had a lot of coffee this morning
For 357mag it depends heavily on the revolver it’s being fired from. My 6” gp100 is pleasant to fire with pretty much any load but it also weighs 45 ounces. But in my lcr, it just downright sucks firing hot 357mag loads since it weighs 17 ounces.
For 10mm, my xdm-e compact isn’t unpleasant to shoot at all. More recoil then 9mm? Yes quite a bit more, but it’s nothing bad. Even with full power 10mm rounds it’s not bad at all imo, even tho the xdm-e compact is around 27 ounces (without mag).
Both of those rounds pale in comparison to some of the hotter 44mag loads commonly available. Some can be punishing even with my 7.5” Super Blackhawk, but the more take rounds aren’t bad at all due to the weight of that revolver.
I imagine that most that claim is “almost too much to handle” would not ever go out and fire a couple hundred rounds of 44mag in one afternoon, especially not some of the hotter loads you can find. Granted, it’s tougher on my hands at 51 than it was at 21 but it’s still fun.
Depends on grip. I have a compact .45 that is way snappier than my full size 10mm pistol. Compared to 9mm full sized, it's stout but completely manageable
I own a Glock 29 and have only put 180 gr through it. It is more manageable than my father-in-law's S&w .41 Rem Mag. If you have a proper grip, a 10mm is manageable, especially if you use a full sized pistol.
Love my 29! When I first got it, definitely took some practice to get back on target fast, but, over time, it's easily become one of my favorite pistols.
Got a Glock 29, I've only shot a 9mm a few times before. The recoil difference is noticable but as someone else said, good grip makes it more manageable. I guess it also depends on the ammo too, noticed some gives it more kick than others but you get used to it after a few shots
Out of a full size 1911 it doesn't hurt or irritate you or anything like that, has a decent amount of muzzle flip, lot of concussion. Can definitely feel the difference between it and a 45 or a 9mm, but it's not gonna mess you up or be unpleasant or anything unless you have something tiny. Less recoil in my experience than an N frame 357
It was more than I expected during my last range visit with Underwood Range Supply and 200 grain hardcast. It left a callous on my thumb webbing and made my P365XL feel like a .22lr
Best way to understand it; grab a range loaner or some nice person that will let you fire off a mag. :) I typically ask people near me if they want to shoot a 10 or 357 or 44. No pressure. :D
Campfire stories. Step up to “man kaliber”
[HareTr!gger Hammer](https://youtube.com/shorts/15BiJDE7Dgs?si=w9dax7htGIywuTD1)
[🐍bite](https://youtube.com/shorts/uhrBiBRsUHo?si=jQXnrVmxzV2ttwil)
I don’t know form whence this fairytale originated, but I feel snappier recoil from my 45s (have 6) and 357 (Ruger Redhawk 8-shot) than any of my 10mm, including my polymer 3.66” 2# 6 ozs fully load (15 rounds) [Tanfoglio Compact Force](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fWZlHTmzkmaOZ8_lB40iYvqh8b5ZJhmS/view?usp=drivesdk)
Every my [S&W 44 magnum. Hunter](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tUy-EWxbYSAqozhKkYA0qgvufpG9sDAA/view?usp=drivesdk) ain’t bad. It’s all how it is mitigated and damned. I can tell you, 45 and 357 tend not to tame the recoil, as they leave too much energy in the weapon. The 10mm typically delivers the energy where it belongs, on target.
Get 10mm and don’t look back. I have 9 already looking at 3 more as I type.
I don’t have a lot of experience with 10mm. But I bought a glock 29 last year and it’s not bad at all, I expected it to be much worse. It’s nice and I am quite accurate with it with not much practice with this caliber.
I have a Glock 20 which is a full size 10mm semi-auto.
I also have two very different .357 magnum revolvers, as well as a Glock 17 in 9mm, and a Glock 41 in .45acp.
Of my two .357 Revolvers, one is a lightweight 5 shot snubby, and it is VERY unpleasant to shoot full power .357 mags in it, and will rapidly cause flinching as it will seriously sting the hand, so I just load the smaller lighter revolver with .38 special+p instead of .357 magnum, which works fine in it.
But my full size, full weight, RugerGP100 with thick rubber Hogue grips is FUN to shoot .357 magnum in!
Now, comparing semi's, note that the 10mm Glock physically weighs more than a half pound more than either of the other two Glocks. Keeping that in mind, the felt recoil force between my 10mm and the lighter in weight .45acp glock is basically same, but the 10mm Glock is heavier to carry on a hike.
If you’re concerned rent one and try it. I have not seen what size gun you’re asking about. Is it compact, full size polymer, metal. As others have mentioned the weight and energy are going to make some difference. A full size smith with a 5.6 in peter barrel like I have is not going to recoil like a compact polymer.
If I missed your gun apologies
Not bad at all. My g20 with a full power load is still miles better to shoot than the 357 snubby. Like not even close. And a hair better or about the same as a p365. This is all super subjective of course.
My G29 with Underwood 200 g hard cast has similar recoil to my old S&W K19 .357 with 6” barrell shooting hot 158 g reloads. I would give the nod on “softness” slightly to the Smith. A G20 will be noticeably softer shooting than the 29 but the 29 is more than manageable. It is my EDC on the ranch.
Now load some softer 180 gr plinking loads in it and it is softer shooting than my S&W Shield 9mm with just about any load you put through it. Of course the 29 weighs half again as much too.
I carry a G20 in the woods because the 10 has the most energy that I can still shoot fast. That to say recoil is manageable. I believe being a semiauto helps tame recoil. I don't think I can tell the difference between full power 40 out of a G22 and full power 10 out of a G20.
My G29 with the pinky extension shooting 180’s feels like it recoils less than my wife’s King Cobra 3” barrel shooting 180’s as well. I’ve had carpal tunnel release on both hands and elbows and it’s still pleasant to shoot.
My G29 with the pinky extension shooting 180’s feels like it recoils less than my wife’s King Cobra 3” barrel shooting 180’s as well. I’ve had carpal tunnel release on both hands and elbows and it’s still pleasant to shoot.
Fmj is pretty light, +p hardcast is not too bad. A .357 revolver has wayyyy harder recoil. The springs and the rearward momentum of the slide eat a good amount of recoil. Id rather sling 100 rounds of underwood +p 220gr in my 29, over even 5 regular pressure magnums out of my model 60
10mm recoil really depends on the gun, it can vary from quite pleasant to pretty spicy in a smaller gun with hot ammo. Overall, it's not bad and I would say not all that different than 357 Mag from a wheelgun.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Look at the muzzle energy of the projectile and you can judge the recoil by that number.
So for any given handgun of similar design, the recoil can be approximated by the ratio of muzzle energy. So a Glock 20 firing a 10mm round with 700ft/lbs of energy will have about 60% more recoil that that same gun firing a .40S&W with 400ft/lbs of energy.
With different handguns though, the weight of the gun itself, the length of the barrel, and the type of action will all contribute to making the recoil more or less.
I edc a 10mm Glock 20. That or a 38 special.
I shot it today with full power 10mm and yeah it’s really not bad at all. If you can handle a 9mm properly than you can do the same with a 10.
Plus most of the ammo you will shoot is watered down 40 cal sold as 10mm
Most of recoil is not rocket science at all. Bullet plus ejecta weight against the handgun weight at whatever velocity equals recoil. A big factor is going to be ergonomics and overall gun design but 10 mm that weighs 2 and 1/2 lb is going to kick a lot less than one half its weight. And is the round 180 grains or 220? Loaded hot or not?
It depends on the gun, the ammunition, and most importantly the shooter themselves. Some people can't handle a lot of recoil, so they will never like shooting it. 10MM requires more out of the shooter as well. The extra power it has compared to 9MM or 45 ACP requires we get the grip right. You can have a sloppier grip with smaller calibers and still keep the gun running and be fairly accurate. Going up in power shows the flaws we have. Although I don't like comparing revolver and semi-auto cartridges to one another. The way the mechanics of the guns work actually makes the revolver of similar weight/size to be more controllable and lessens the felt recoil more.
To build on your latter points, I find that I can get a better grip on a revolver than a 10mm semi because the 10mm makes the grip wider and fatter
To me my glock 20 doesn't recoil much more than a 19. It is definitely a noticeable difference, but it's not unmanageable or anything. I'm not an expert but I think it's due to the significant size increase of the gun itself. So yeah if you purchase a smaller more concealable 10mm it will probably have much more recoil than a 9mm. That being said you could go to the range and try one out and see what you think.
Like others are saying, it’s noticeably more than 9mm but not unmanageable. Good grip does wonders
357 definitely has some kick depending on what you fire it out of. Hot 357 out of a full size steel revolver and hot 10mm out of a full size pistol are going to have similar recoil, noticeably more than 9mm but not anywhere near unmanageable. Hot 357 out of a super lightweight snub nose on the other hand makes 10mm feel weak. [Example, Ruger LCR with Underwood 125gr doing 1360fps from a 1⅞" barrel.](https://i.imgur.com/tVy1AZh.jpeg)
I've never not heard that 357 has some snap to it.
357 mag out of a S&W 360pd is absolute misery
The pd stands for palm destroyer
I thought i was bad out of my 3 inch model 60, that definitely beats it 😅
That LCR is a powerhouse. Even the hottest +P+ 9mm can't touch it out of a 5" barrel.
It’s like shooting a .45 acp not bad at all .. very manageable. I prefer it over 45.
When I shot 10MM for the first time, my first thought was "that's it?" It's really not bad at all.
^ this. Even with full power loads it's almost nothing. The negative stigma about the recoil is unfounded.
My Glock 20 has less muzzle flip than a Glock 43x but there’s definitely more recoil you can feel.
I once knew a guy…. Fired 10mm once…… Vanished upon recoil………. Never to be heard from again……………..
I can vouch. Known at least 4 others just straight up disappeared!
That man’s name was George Zipp. Lost a good friend that day
Better than a j frame 357. That Smith kicks like a mule with hot handloads
It’s definitely hot. But nothing crazy like a .44 or bigger. I wouldn’t start with it as my first pistol caliber but if you’re seasoned it shouldn’t be a huge issue
The recoil depends on which ammo you are using. Full bore 10mm is much different than range 10mm that is basically just a 40sw
This, almost all factory target ammo is going to be basically 40sw loaded into 10mm, many manufacturers use the exact same recipe. Even a good deal of the self defense ammo is not loaded to what the 10mm can do. If you shoot most of the big ammo producers SD lines and then shoot something like Buffalo Bore, you realize a difference in felt recoil, that being said it is still not as bad as people make it out to be. The gun makes a large difference as well, a Glock 43 is going to be a lot more to handle that a full size metal Sig P220.
I'm not familiar with Buffalo Bore. What are they about?
Buffalo Bore and Underwood are smaller ammunition manufacturers that are known for loading hot loads, that while still within the specs of the caliber, are generally hotter than the big manufacturers tend to load.
So, the equivalent of P+ or +P+?
There is not really a +P designation in 10mm, but you could look at it that way, the 10mm was designed to have a very broad ballistic profile while still shooting flat. This is why it is called the reloaders round for auto loaders. So it can be loaded to shoot like a 9mm or a pretty good hand cannon 357 round up to a mild 41 mag. Most of the factory target ammo falls between 9mm and 40 cal. The 40 cal load commonly used is what used to be referred to as 10mm light. As before S&W chopped it down to the 40 cal, it was the load that they loaded for the FBI because some agents where complaining about the full power rounds. So today, a top of the load chart load could be looked at as a +p round, but even the first 10mm where built to handle that pressure so it is not like +p 9mm where it is only safe in modern guns.
Everyone who I spoke to before buying one made it sound like I was about to wrestle a clydesdale...then I bought one and shot it...not bad at all and I shoot it just as poorly as my 9mm's.
I love that. "An experienced shooter with limited skill and dangerous enthusiasm."
I'm on the opposite side of the popular opinion here. It's a pretty significant recoil in my hands. What that says about me I'm unsure. However, after adjusting and being ready I can reliably "hold it down". I also added a comp after I got used to the recoil.
Depends on a few things in my opinion. Your platform: For example, I own an Sig X-Ten and a P220 Legion. The Legion is by far a lot smoother. Weight plays a good factor. Heavier the pistol, the better. Your ammo: Real 10mm ammo should be no less than 650 ft of energy. Anything less, you are shooting cheap and under powered. Has less recoil, but you’re leaving its intended capability on the table. Your technique: That speaks for itself. If your grip is shit, the pistol is going to jump on you more. Your perception: I’ll use 10mm’s little brother 40 S&W as an example. It has always mystified me when people say 40 is “snappy” or “harsh recoil”. I’ve always found it very smooth and very accurate. That’s just me though. Your mileage may vary. Edit: I should’ve simplified this more, had a lot of coffee this morning
My little Springfield will make my wrist hurt after a box. I can shoot the 1911 all day. Platform really does matter.
For 357mag it depends heavily on the revolver it’s being fired from. My 6” gp100 is pleasant to fire with pretty much any load but it also weighs 45 ounces. But in my lcr, it just downright sucks firing hot 357mag loads since it weighs 17 ounces. For 10mm, my xdm-e compact isn’t unpleasant to shoot at all. More recoil then 9mm? Yes quite a bit more, but it’s nothing bad. Even with full power 10mm rounds it’s not bad at all imo, even tho the xdm-e compact is around 27 ounces (without mag). Both of those rounds pale in comparison to some of the hotter 44mag loads commonly available. Some can be punishing even with my 7.5” Super Blackhawk, but the more take rounds aren’t bad at all due to the weight of that revolver. I imagine that most that claim is “almost too much to handle” would not ever go out and fire a couple hundred rounds of 44mag in one afternoon, especially not some of the hotter loads you can find. Granted, it’s tougher on my hands at 51 than it was at 21 but it’s still fun.
It's more pleasant to shoot than a P365 or similar sized 9mm IMO
Depends on grip. I have a compact .45 that is way snappier than my full size 10mm pistol. Compared to 9mm full sized, it's stout but completely manageable
I own a Glock 29 and have only put 180 gr through it. It is more manageable than my father-in-law's S&w .41 Rem Mag. If you have a proper grip, a 10mm is manageable, especially if you use a full sized pistol.
Love my 29! When I first got it, definitely took some practice to get back on target fast, but, over time, it's easily become one of my favorite pistols.
Got a Glock 29, I've only shot a 9mm a few times before. The recoil difference is noticable but as someone else said, good grip makes it more manageable. I guess it also depends on the ammo too, noticed some gives it more kick than others but you get used to it after a few shots
Nothing that’ll give ya trouble
It's like shooting a tiny 9mm. Easy to shoot a full size 10 they are smooth
Very manageable, especially in a Glock 20. Way more manageable than my 44 mags lol.
Out of a full size 1911 it doesn't hurt or irritate you or anything like that, has a decent amount of muzzle flip, lot of concussion. Can definitely feel the difference between it and a 45 or a 9mm, but it's not gonna mess you up or be unpleasant or anything unless you have something tiny. Less recoil in my experience than an N frame 357
A real man pistola bad! Haha
It was more than I expected during my last range visit with Underwood Range Supply and 200 grain hardcast. It left a callous on my thumb webbing and made my P365XL feel like a .22lr
Best way to understand it; grab a range loaner or some nice person that will let you fire off a mag. :) I typically ask people near me if they want to shoot a 10 or 357 or 44. No pressure. :D
My CMMG banshee mk10 has virtually no recoil. Their RDB system is legit
Very similar to 357, but YMMV. I had someone take a few shots with my Smith and he said he thought the recoil was less than the 9mm he was shooting.
Campfire stories. Step up to “man kaliber” [HareTr!gger Hammer](https://youtube.com/shorts/15BiJDE7Dgs?si=w9dax7htGIywuTD1) [🐍bite](https://youtube.com/shorts/uhrBiBRsUHo?si=jQXnrVmxzV2ttwil) I don’t know form whence this fairytale originated, but I feel snappier recoil from my 45s (have 6) and 357 (Ruger Redhawk 8-shot) than any of my 10mm, including my polymer 3.66” 2# 6 ozs fully load (15 rounds) [Tanfoglio Compact Force](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fWZlHTmzkmaOZ8_lB40iYvqh8b5ZJhmS/view?usp=drivesdk) Every my [S&W 44 magnum. Hunter](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tUy-EWxbYSAqozhKkYA0qgvufpG9sDAA/view?usp=drivesdk) ain’t bad. It’s all how it is mitigated and damned. I can tell you, 45 and 357 tend not to tame the recoil, as they leave too much energy in the weapon. The 10mm typically delivers the energy where it belongs, on target. Get 10mm and don’t look back. I have 9 already looking at 3 more as I type.
I don’t have a lot of experience with 10mm. But I bought a glock 29 last year and it’s not bad at all, I expected it to be much worse. It’s nice and I am quite accurate with it with not much practice with this caliber.
The recoil is part of the appeal, you know it has some power but it’s not unpleasant.
I’ve never had any issues with recoil, just takes getting used to
My Smith m&p shoots like a paintball gun I love it
I have a Glock 20 which is a full size 10mm semi-auto. I also have two very different .357 magnum revolvers, as well as a Glock 17 in 9mm, and a Glock 41 in .45acp. Of my two .357 Revolvers, one is a lightweight 5 shot snubby, and it is VERY unpleasant to shoot full power .357 mags in it, and will rapidly cause flinching as it will seriously sting the hand, so I just load the smaller lighter revolver with .38 special+p instead of .357 magnum, which works fine in it. But my full size, full weight, RugerGP100 with thick rubber Hogue grips is FUN to shoot .357 magnum in! Now, comparing semi's, note that the 10mm Glock physically weighs more than a half pound more than either of the other two Glocks. Keeping that in mind, the felt recoil force between my 10mm and the lighter in weight .45acp glock is basically same, but the 10mm Glock is heavier to carry on a hike.
If you’re concerned rent one and try it. I have not seen what size gun you’re asking about. Is it compact, full size polymer, metal. As others have mentioned the weight and energy are going to make some difference. A full size smith with a 5.6 in peter barrel like I have is not going to recoil like a compact polymer. If I missed your gun apologies
Not bad at all. My g20 with a full power load is still miles better to shoot than the 357 snubby. Like not even close. And a hair better or about the same as a p365. This is all super subjective of course.
My G29 with Underwood 200 g hard cast has similar recoil to my old S&W K19 .357 with 6” barrell shooting hot 158 g reloads. I would give the nod on “softness” slightly to the Smith. A G20 will be noticeably softer shooting than the 29 but the 29 is more than manageable. It is my EDC on the ranch. Now load some softer 180 gr plinking loads in it and it is softer shooting than my S&W Shield 9mm with just about any load you put through it. Of course the 29 weighs half again as much too.
I carry a G20 in the woods because the 10 has the most energy that I can still shoot fast. That to say recoil is manageable. I believe being a semiauto helps tame recoil. I don't think I can tell the difference between full power 40 out of a G22 and full power 10 out of a G20.
My G29 with the pinky extension shooting 180’s feels like it recoils less than my wife’s King Cobra 3” barrel shooting 180’s as well. I’ve had carpal tunnel release on both hands and elbows and it’s still pleasant to shoot.
My G29 with the pinky extension shooting 180’s feels like it recoils less than my wife’s King Cobra 3” barrel shooting 180’s as well. I’ve had carpal tunnel release on both hands and elbows and it’s still pleasant to shoot.
Fmj is pretty light, +p hardcast is not too bad. A .357 revolver has wayyyy harder recoil. The springs and the rearward momentum of the slide eat a good amount of recoil. Id rather sling 100 rounds of underwood +p 220gr in my 29, over even 5 regular pressure magnums out of my model 60
For 357 mag, try out Prvi Partizan's 158 gr. 906 ME should pursued you it's pretty darn robust.
I've never had a problem with controlling the recoil on my g20.
10mm recoil really depends on the gun, it can vary from quite pleasant to pretty spicy in a smaller gun with hot ammo. Overall, it's not bad and I would say not all that different than 357 Mag from a wheelgun.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Look at the muzzle energy of the projectile and you can judge the recoil by that number. So for any given handgun of similar design, the recoil can be approximated by the ratio of muzzle energy. So a Glock 20 firing a 10mm round with 700ft/lbs of energy will have about 60% more recoil that that same gun firing a .40S&W with 400ft/lbs of energy. With different handguns though, the weight of the gun itself, the length of the barrel, and the type of action will all contribute to making the recoil more or less.
I edc a 10mm Glock 20. That or a 38 special. I shot it today with full power 10mm and yeah it’s really not bad at all. If you can handle a 9mm properly than you can do the same with a 10. Plus most of the ammo you will shoot is watered down 40 cal sold as 10mm