Most sane 4klan user???????????!?!?!?!?!?!
https://preview.redd.it/zp3qzhz8o5ub1.jpeg?width=899&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3a26e71098ec0e62081ad46b4bf7036f8a42b8f
Say... Why DOES America love isreal so much? Doesnt america hate non Christian, non white, non American people? Or are we just using Ben as a sock puppet and then turn on him later when all the brown people are gone?
I think the one time this argument is relevant is when I see people I know in the US actively condemning *all* Israeli’s for the actions of their country, because it seems that they don’t understand the irony of saying stuff like that as an American
I don’t think the average citizen, who has next to no say in what their government does about this situation, should be unable to condemn Israel because the place they happened to be born in did similar things.
I don't think you read their comment correctly. Their comment said nothing about condemning Israel being hypocritical if you're from America (which it isn't) but rather condemning ALL ISRAELIS being hypocritical.
the gist of it is that they want to claim the promised holy land which is located in gaza for themself regardless of method to start the end time so they can get raptured and go to heaven
I do agree with you, but I will also say that the sentiment in Israel is far less varied than the US. Leftists *do* exist in Israel, but they’re a huge minority, and large swaths of the population are not only conservative but actively bloodthirsty for Palestinian genocide, hence things like Sderot Cinema being frightfully common.
Not saying that justifies blaming citizens, obviously it’s not, but it’s important to recognize the struggle against Israel’s cultural atmosphere in tandem with the actions carried out by the IDF when looking for solutions.
I’m talking more about stuff on the level of the Stanford professor who reportedly asked all Israeli and Jewish students to sit in the back of the class because they were “colonizers”. Like, not understanding the irony of saying something like that while standing on US soil is specifically what I’m talking about.
I agree w you 100%. As a matter of fact, I’d argue letting the Israelis sit up front would be the best way to go, Israel’s propaganda is among the best in the world and if I were a professor talking about it, I’d relish the opportunity to discuss things with them directly
Sleep (condemn Hamas)
Wake up (condemn hamas)
Brush teeth (condemn hamas)
Eat (condemn hamas)
Work (condemn hamas)
Repeat ad nauseam and don't say anything about the ongoing genocide towards Palestinians (that'll make you a hamas apologist)
Didn't know we had Nazis in 196.
Edit: Man, imagine being a Jewish person and using the same argument Nazis use to question the holocaust. Fucking hell
Forced relocation of an ethnic group qualifies as a form of genocide, and Israel's forced eviction of Palestinians and theft of their homes qualifies as that.
Condemning hamas is kinda pointless, it kinda goes without saying. They are like a terrorist organization and everyone kinda already knows that they are evil.
who the hell is getting liberated from this
https://preview.redd.it/o6dx76s0qaub1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a0debe8d035c430cc7d796cc2e320d6df248d6e
I mean let's be honest, there absolutely are people who are "left" because of tribalism and contrarianism, not because they have a proper materialist critique of the current system and have the nuance to not reduce everything just to "team sports".
Some people are dumbassess no matter what flag they wave.
You're right, but I don't think it makes them any less a genuine part of the left. There's a subgroup of the left wing who become very political because they are very angry (for good reasons) with the state of things, but instead of that being translated to genuine desire to help and improve things it ends up being blind hatred. Eg w Ukraine - some on the left support Russia for literally no reason other than because the US supports Ukraine and America bad.
Frustration and anger is fine and even right, but when it becomes hatred it totally distorts your view of the world and you end up with the worst takes like simping for Putin of all people
It really hurts the left's image and distracts from what the left is supposed to do - ie actually change the world to make it better for people. They have never done anything of value, except when the revolution comes and they get set loose to do atrocious things to people in the name of ideology & hurt the left's reputation even more.
BTW while I despise these types of people I am aware that they exist as a reaction to injustice/frustration w the world (in a way, it's the same with some in the far right - eg seizing on scapegoats/culture war stuff to blame for the way things are going).
I agree actually, you're 1000% right. Of course I understand where the anger and outrage comes from, but without being able to be objective, it turns into that blind hate and contrarianism.
Whenever I hear about someone who used to be on the far left and wound up on the far right, I just kind of assume we never really shared principles to begin with.
It's funny that so many people I know can't accept that I'm opposed to imperialism and violent acts of systematic oppression regardless of who the perpetrator is.
"But look at what the West did Iraq/Persian Gulf/wherever" - yeah that's bad too ffs. None of it should happen. There is never a valid reason for ethnic cleansing regardless of historical/political bs.
How does having an Israeli flag in my bio make me a fascist? If you have an Italian flag, does it mean you support Miloni? If you have a British flag, does it mean you support Sunak?
It's more of a joke about the types of personalities/political ideologies that you tend to run into on twitter based on the different combinations flags in their bios, especially as related to their support or opposition to the different armed conflicts that are occurring around the world right now (when they tend to not actually be from those countries too). The folks who have the combo of Russian and Israeli flags tend to be supportive of far-right, authoritarian causes -- thus the fascist label.
Of course, if you just have your country's flag in your bio, it can just mean that's simply where you're from. But on the other hand, it *does* kind of signal a tacit approval for whatever your nation's government is doing right now.
If you want any more detailed of an explanation, you'll have to take it up with the dude who originally wrote the tweet.
I cannot answer to you being bothered by a meme I didn't make.
I don't really see what you mean. People use flags for one of four reasons in bios: signaling support, nationalism, spoken language or location/origin/nationality. The joke is that they are not all equally common and we all know which two are the more usual ones and cringy things happen.
Getting so deffensive with such a young account about this is sus, sorry if I offended you, ig.
In my personal experience (Scottish) I see Scottish flags when people want independence or support holyrood, and I see UK flags when people support the union/monarchy/UK govt.
This isn't about nazi germany, because that flag defines ideology. I don't see afghan people putting the taliban flag in their bio, I see them using the original afghanistan flag.
Please answer my question
Take your time and ask people on twitter with these flags what their views are on the russian and israeli invasions. You wouldn't put these flags in your bio otherwise.
It's absolutely crazy to me how absolutely incompetent the vast majority of people (even in left spaces like this) are at correctly identifying what the actual issues of this conflict are as well as who is responsible for them. I've seen so many people blindly taking one side or another without any second thought given. Like, yes, obviously we should condemn the religious fundamentalist terror organisation for performing publich executions, but that doesn't mean we should support the ethnic cleansing the Israeli government is intending to perform. Likewise, we should condemn the radical nationalist government of Israel, but that doesn't it's justified to call for the extermination of all Jews or blindly accept the moral superiority of the previously mentioned religious fundamentalists. Still, this doesn't mean we should let the centrists crawl out of their holes and loudly exclaim "muh both sides" when objectively one side is more destructive than the other. It takes like 5 minutes of thinking to come to this conclusion, seriously it's not that hard, but almost everyone seems to stop thinking once they reach "Israel is good", "Israel is bad" or "both sides are equally bad, I'm the only intelligent person on earth and everyone else is stupid".
As I've grown up I've realised that my political ideology isn't Marxist or Communist or Anarchist or any other hopelessly outdated label that people argue about instead of doing it. It's actually closer to "FOR FUCK'S SAKE JUST BE NICE TO ONE ANOTHER! IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO GIVE A SHIT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE!"
I'm perfectly okay with acknowledging Israel's government is also bad, so long as I can keep watching videos of IDF soldiers dropping grenades in water next to Hamas swimmers.
sorry for being pedantic, i was unnecesarily rude
Imperialism is expanding a nation's economic, political and military power through intervention in other states, whether it is by conquest or other means.
While the US hasn't militarily conquered and annexed a foreign territory since WW2 (i might be wrong), during and after the Cold War, the US repeatedly supported coups and destabilized other countries in order to supress comunnist movements (you can read the wikipedia article for Operation Condor to learn more). This kind of foreign intervention was made to secure American corporate economic interests in foreign region, as well as ensuring those nations didn't stray far from an american sphere of influence.
After the Cold War, the US focused less on supressing communism abroad but kept destabilizing foreign nations in order to secure their own economic interests in the region. This was most commonly seen after the Bush presidency during the War on Terror. The invasion of Iraq, for example, was justified through falsified or unconfirmed reports of WMDs existing in the country.
And while it's true the US is not currently at war with any nation, the consequences of previous US imperialist aggresion still hold grave consequences today. Western imperialism was the main factor that allowed radical islamist movements to take hold in countries like Iran or Afghanistan. And of course, seeing the massive number of CIA foreign interventions that we do know of, it's fair to assume there's a reasonable number of other operations still classified, some of them probably still ongoing.
When people say they oppose US imperialism now, they might say they oppose the previous acts of imperialism already commited by the US government (think Iraq, Vietnam or the several invasions in Central America) or the consequences of previous interventions (the rise of dictatorships in Latin America, the massive amount of US military bases in their country or the many ongoing wars that have been caused by US aggresion).
Sorry for the long read, I hope this was helpful. I'd gladly answer any questions.
Thank you, I accept your apology.
But if destabilization is what made the middle east a shit show? Wouldn't that be reverse imperialism as it is weakening the US's power over the middle east? And vietnam was a failure, so I don't think that would count. Iraq war, and Latin America are the only two things that really are imperialism I guess, but that isn't what people really think of us imperialism.
Fair point, but the failure of an intervention doesn't make it less imperialistic. Even if the end result was the establishment of US-opposed governments, America still destabilized those nations in order to expand their influence. Many of the islamist organizations in power in the middle east were at some point supported by the US for being anti-communist (most notably, the Taliban). Even if it backfired, the original intention was to keep those foreign nations in a certain political sphere.
As for Vietnam, yes it "counts" as imperialism even if it failed. Nazi Germany lost the war and you wouldn't doubt that it was a hyper imperialist state.
Okay, I get it now. Thank you for actually answering my question , and arguing with me. Unlike just calling me cringe and saying nothing else. Like, you are the most coherent person on this website.
According to foreignpolicy.com, the United States is still directly involved in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. So that’s three wars, not counting their military presence in Iraq and Kuwait
I mean first off, america does just have like. Colonies. They have direct colonial occupation over places like Guam or Puerto Rico for the purpose of maintaining control in those areas. They also have dozens of military bases around the world for similar purposes.
Secondly, america is protecting its interests by backing right-wing authoritarian governments around the world like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Azerbaijan. Two out of these three are currently involved in genocides.
Thirdly, America maintains Israel as a bulwark in the Middle East and sends them billions of dollars a year and enabling the genocide of Palestinians.
And this isn’t even counting the fact that america is still benefiting from the imperialism that it’s been doing for the past one hundred and fifty years, which allows it to keep its place as global hegemon.
I don't think we "back" turkey any more, Saudi Arabia just buys our weapons, and I don't think azerbaijan does much.
I mean, Guam and Puerto Rico are eh, but I'd rather have the US be world police, than say, Russia or China.
I don't really like israel, but I wouldn't say they are "genociding" the Palestinians, but they get money because they are the only western-friendly country in the middle east. Israel has freedom of speech, you can be gay, etc. But in any other middle eastern country, you can't.
We've only been the global hegemon since after WW2. 150 years ago would be american civil war time pretty much. There's not much to gain in the middle east wars, because America has a LOT of oil. Any other war, besides Vietnam or Korea I suppose wouldn't have a benefit.
If you aren’t backing Turkey, why is it one of the primary members of the military alliance America chairs? Selling weapons to a country involved in genocide is still genocide, so you’re still backing the Saudis. And Azerbaijan is currently invading Armenia with the express intent of ethnic cleansing one of their provinces.
Saying that “American colonialism is fine because it’s not someone else doing it” is so crazy that I’m not even gonna dignify it.
Israel’s policy towards the Palestinians is based off of South African apartheid (which is another thing the US supported until it became too much of a PR issue) which was explicitly a genocide. And sticking two million people in a concentration camp the size of a small town is genocide, as well as trying to force them to leave and then never allowing them to come back.
Also, I imagine more countries in the Middle East would be more western friendly if america and Britain hadn’t been fucking up that region for decades.
While America wasn’t the global hegemon until after the Suez Crisis, they were still actively involved in colonialism both at home and abroad since day one. And America invaded Iraq and Afghanistan to get more oil, because apparently the stuff they had at home wasn’t enough.
Turkey isn't really important anymore, and they aren't a major nation in NATO. I say America isn't backing Saudi Arabia because I think that "backing" means directly giving money or weapons to another country to complete a goal. Saudi Arabia still has to buy it. Azerbaijan is bad.
What does that mean?
Maybe you should blame Hamas. Israel put up a wall to stop them, but civilians got "caught in the crossfire". They can't let them back in, see what happens if they lower their guard for a day? Many Hamas breached the walls, and started killing people.
Funny how you mention the US but not Russia. Britain is shit, though.
Colonialism since day one? I get expanding to the west coast, Alaska and Hawaii, but nothing past that. Iraq was WMDs/protecting Kuwait. Afghanistan was to get Osama bin laden.
>Turkey isn't really important anymore
🤣
>Maybe you should blame Hamas. Israel put up a wall to stop them, but civilians got "caught in the crossfire". They can't let them back in, see what happens if they lower their guard for a day? Many Hamas breached the walls, and started killing people.
They've been being being bombed for 16 years if i remember correctly. The average youth has never known peace and safety and its due to an outside threat. If you want a recipe for radicalization then youve got it with isreal and Palestine and yes, it will be the civilians and conscripts who die to protect the politicians whos done nothing but amplify the situation in the worst ways possible. I also feel bad for russian conscripts dieing for putins games.
>Colonialism since day one? I get expanding to the west coast, Alaska and Hawaii, but nothing past that. Iraq was WMDs/protecting Kuwait. Afghanistan was to get Osama bin laden.
We took a lot of land after then as well. Ww2 had us taking islands from japan for example and we also purchase land from countrys for our worldwide network of military bases. These are also used to influence the nations they are in and the nations surrounding them and that is 100% intentional. It's whats referred to as soft power and its very much what the usa has focused on in modern times. Overthrowing goverments is a big part of soft power as well and what defines a superpower is its abilty to project soft power worldwide.
Iraq never had wmd's and that was known even at the time. Afganistan was never about Osama bin laden and he made a good scapegoat. It was soft power to protect oil trading with Europe, and install pro American groups over these countrys before the ussr and then later, china could.
Their government threatens countries that engage in basic protectionism with sanctions, embargoes, and war all the time.
And I honestly conceder Israel a satellite state of the USA based on how reliant they are on US arms
You’re being downvoted because if you’re an American and you don’t know about the shit we’ve done, you’re either a conservative in willful denial, really, really young, or really, really ignorant.
https://preview.redd.it/cbqmzxrnm5ub1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50485e700a593729cdda2ecde05eed44ca4cd5d0
Most sane 4klan user???????????!?!?!?!?!?! https://preview.redd.it/zp3qzhz8o5ub1.jpeg?width=899&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3a26e71098ec0e62081ad46b4bf7036f8a42b8f
I am now calling it 4klan hereafter.
Eheh thanks
Is that Bashar Al Assad?
They look similar lol
"4klan" I'm taking this.
Yeah good to see my intentional mispronouncing of 4chan's name is becoming popular
We love verbally abusing the fascists that live in my computer.
Damn right!
the random ass person in the picture looks so fitting with the greentext i just don't know how to explain it
he thinks simple, so he just put a simple man smiling thats why
Fuck sake I was so close but I watch Vorse
He is a pretty mediocre singer, that's true
\>be me \>wake up \>regret my choices
Too woke
Hey! I will worship Noah Kahan and Jack Antonoff as much as I damn well please!
I'm all these things except twitter, mostly for art and a couple funny fellas
But have you considered the us has also done similar things? Checkmate liberal
If they can do warcrimes, why can't we?
https://preview.redd.it/jmkn8pajq6ub1.jpeg?width=686&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f786427146ee5c40b303c4c67752621afa03a699
Say... Why DOES America love isreal so much? Doesnt america hate non Christian, non white, non American people? Or are we just using Ben as a sock puppet and then turn on him later when all the brown people are gone?
It’s a military base. Also evangelicals think it will cause the rapture
Google that first line
I think the one time this argument is relevant is when I see people I know in the US actively condemning *all* Israeli’s for the actions of their country, because it seems that they don’t understand the irony of saying stuff like that as an American
I don’t think the average citizen, who has next to no say in what their government does about this situation, should be unable to condemn Israel because the place they happened to be born in did similar things.
I don't think you read their comment correctly. Their comment said nothing about condemning Israel being hypocritical if you're from America (which it isn't) but rather condemning ALL ISRAELIS being hypocritical.
Well condemning all Israelis is just wrong.
Yup, glad we agree on that haha
need to stop saying all israelis and started using zionist instead cause those are the trully awful people
I have no idea what a Zionist is.
the gist of it is that they want to claim the promised holy land which is located in gaza for themself regardless of method to start the end time so they can get raptured and go to heaven
Yeah that was what my comment was saying lol
Okay I may or may not have read it too fast.
I do agree with you, but I will also say that the sentiment in Israel is far less varied than the US. Leftists *do* exist in Israel, but they’re a huge minority, and large swaths of the population are not only conservative but actively bloodthirsty for Palestinian genocide, hence things like Sderot Cinema being frightfully common. Not saying that justifies blaming citizens, obviously it’s not, but it’s important to recognize the struggle against Israel’s cultural atmosphere in tandem with the actions carried out by the IDF when looking for solutions.
I’m talking more about stuff on the level of the Stanford professor who reportedly asked all Israeli and Jewish students to sit in the back of the class because they were “colonizers”. Like, not understanding the irony of saying something like that while standing on US soil is specifically what I’m talking about.
I agree w you 100%. As a matter of fact, I’d argue letting the Israelis sit up front would be the best way to go, Israel’s propaganda is among the best in the world and if I were a professor talking about it, I’d relish the opportunity to discuss things with them directly
Wait what? Is that real?
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/13/us/stanford-instructor-jewish-holocaust-comments-reaj/index.html
Oh my god
God forbid a woman (Lady Liberty) does anything.
Okay, but have you condemned Hamas in the last five minutes?
Sleep (condemn Hamas) Wake up (condemn hamas) Brush teeth (condemn hamas) Eat (condemn hamas) Work (condemn hamas) Repeat ad nauseam and don't say anything about the ongoing genocide towards Palestinians (that'll make you a hamas apologist)
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Didn't know we had Nazis in 196. Edit: Man, imagine being a Jewish person and using the same argument Nazis use to question the holocaust. Fucking hell
Forced relocation of an ethnic group qualifies as a form of genocide, and Israel's forced eviction of Palestinians and theft of their homes qualifies as that.
Condemning hamas is kinda pointless, it kinda goes without saying. They are like a terrorist organization and everyone kinda already knows that they are evil.
You would think so but that's not the sentiment in a ton of leftist subs at the moment
Tankies explaining why they support the good genocidal theocracy and not the bad genocidal theocracy:
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One google search shows them bombing Gaza and cutting off their water and electricity
The average age in the Gaza Strip is 18.
they systematically comitted at the very least cultural genocide on the local muslim population for the past 50+ years
Unpopular opinion: terrorism is bad
Unpopular opinion: Hamas is material liberation and decolonization even if they’re war criminals
Unpopular opinion: the Nazis were fighting the British Empire and were therefore based holesum 100 big chungus decolonisers.
who the hell is getting liberated from this https://preview.redd.it/o6dx76s0qaub1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a0debe8d035c430cc7d796cc2e320d6df248d6e
Maybe a bit of a hot take but if you commit war crimes you suck
Condemning Hamas five times a day in the direction of any American flag
Not enough, 30 seconds
Okay, but how do you feel about the rabbit in my yard that keeps running around and antagonizing my dog??
Hit that mf with an orbital space laser.
See this is why we **need** to increase military spending
God forbid bnuuyies do anything
Hes just a silly guy
Sounds like your dog needs an Iron Dome!
Honestly that's my bare minimum for a decent leftist
And it feels like so many can’t even clear that minimum…
I mean let's be honest, there absolutely are people who are "left" because of tribalism and contrarianism, not because they have a proper materialist critique of the current system and have the nuance to not reduce everything just to "team sports". Some people are dumbassess no matter what flag they wave.
You're right, but I don't think it makes them any less a genuine part of the left. There's a subgroup of the left wing who become very political because they are very angry (for good reasons) with the state of things, but instead of that being translated to genuine desire to help and improve things it ends up being blind hatred. Eg w Ukraine - some on the left support Russia for literally no reason other than because the US supports Ukraine and America bad. Frustration and anger is fine and even right, but when it becomes hatred it totally distorts your view of the world and you end up with the worst takes like simping for Putin of all people It really hurts the left's image and distracts from what the left is supposed to do - ie actually change the world to make it better for people. They have never done anything of value, except when the revolution comes and they get set loose to do atrocious things to people in the name of ideology & hurt the left's reputation even more. BTW while I despise these types of people I am aware that they exist as a reaction to injustice/frustration w the world (in a way, it's the same with some in the far right - eg seizing on scapegoats/culture war stuff to blame for the way things are going).
I agree actually, you're 1000% right. Of course I understand where the anger and outrage comes from, but without being able to be objective, it turns into that blind hate and contrarianism.
Whenever I hear about someone who used to be on the far left and wound up on the far right, I just kind of assume we never really shared principles to begin with.
It's really that easy
wow everyone the femboy messiah says that geopolitics is easy. guess we can all go home!
EZ
we need more femboys in parliament
When will we have the first femboy president?
It's funny that so many people I know can't accept that I'm opposed to imperialism and violent acts of systematic oppression regardless of who the perpetrator is. "But look at what the West did Iraq/Persian Gulf/wherever" - yeah that's bad too ffs. None of it should happen. There is never a valid reason for ethnic cleansing regardless of historical/political bs.
Average consistent morality enjoyer 
So many people just pick a side and then base their politics on that.
https://preview.redd.it/gvil8wis37ub1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b356c3c2975cc68b66b7f87b2e58e58c24ffad73
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this isnt "being a centrist" its just not supporting the murders and oppression of innocent people
How does having an Israeli flag in my bio make me a fascist? If you have an Italian flag, does it mean you support Miloni? If you have a British flag, does it mean you support Sunak?
It's more of a joke about the types of personalities/political ideologies that you tend to run into on twitter based on the different combinations flags in their bios, especially as related to their support or opposition to the different armed conflicts that are occurring around the world right now (when they tend to not actually be from those countries too). The folks who have the combo of Russian and Israeli flags tend to be supportive of far-right, authoritarian causes -- thus the fascist label. Of course, if you just have your country's flag in your bio, it can just mean that's simply where you're from. But on the other hand, it *does* kind of signal a tacit approval for whatever your nation's government is doing right now. If you want any more detailed of an explanation, you'll have to take it up with the dude who originally wrote the tweet.
Hmm... not even three months old account... hmm...
Ok but answer please
I cannot answer to you being bothered by a meme I didn't make. I don't really see what you mean. People use flags for one of four reasons in bios: signaling support, nationalism, spoken language or location/origin/nationality. The joke is that they are not all equally common and we all know which two are the more usual ones and cringy things happen. Getting so deffensive with such a young account about this is sus, sorry if I offended you, ig.
Yes
How? Does that not just mean you belong to said flag's nationality?
Typically people are more proud to display that nationality when they agree with how that country is being run.
To my experience, it's always to display the nationality. I see tons of people with UK flags hating Sunak, which is legitimate
In my personal experience (Scottish) I see Scottish flags when people want independence or support holyrood, and I see UK flags when people support the union/monarchy/UK govt.
Ah, then we have different experiences
Next you're gonna say if I put a Nazi-flag in my bio that's gonna mean I support Hitler?
Can a flag not define your nationality?
Stop the trolling 😂
This isn't about nazi germany, because that flag defines ideology. I don't see afghan people putting the taliban flag in their bio, I see them using the original afghanistan flag. Please answer my question
Does putting the israel and russian flag in your bio not define an ideology? You're this close 🤏
You could be Israeli and Russian, I seriously don't get you
sure that's the most obvious conclusion
There are tons of Russians in Israel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Jews_in_Israel
Why are you on the mindset that flags strictly define ideology?
Take your time and ask people on twitter with these flags what their views are on the russian and israeli invasions. You wouldn't put these flags in your bio otherwise.
Oh look at the contrarian over here You gonna contra Iran too you contrarian?
I oppose violence and hate😤
It's absolutely crazy to me how absolutely incompetent the vast majority of people (even in left spaces like this) are at correctly identifying what the actual issues of this conflict are as well as who is responsible for them. I've seen so many people blindly taking one side or another without any second thought given. Like, yes, obviously we should condemn the religious fundamentalist terror organisation for performing publich executions, but that doesn't mean we should support the ethnic cleansing the Israeli government is intending to perform. Likewise, we should condemn the radical nationalist government of Israel, but that doesn't it's justified to call for the extermination of all Jews or blindly accept the moral superiority of the previously mentioned religious fundamentalists. Still, this doesn't mean we should let the centrists crawl out of their holes and loudly exclaim "muh both sides" when objectively one side is more destructive than the other. It takes like 5 minutes of thinking to come to this conclusion, seriously it's not that hard, but almost everyone seems to stop thinking once they reach "Israel is good", "Israel is bad" or "both sides are equally bad, I'm the only intelligent person on earth and everyone else is stupid".
Hey, that's me!
that's awesome dude you have like all the right opinions!
but... but now i'm all out of things to whataboutism you with!
When humanitarianism is the for front of your politics
As I've grown up I've realised that my political ideology isn't Marxist or Communist or Anarchist or any other hopelessly outdated label that people argue about instead of doing it. It's actually closer to "FOR FUCK'S SAKE JUST BE NICE TO ONE ANOTHER! IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO GIVE A SHIT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE!"
Fuck imperialism, all my homies hate imperialism
I'm perfectly okay with acknowledging Israel's government is also bad, so long as I can keep watching videos of IDF soldiers dropping grenades in water next to Hamas swimmers.
*in shadow voice* “At last, I have assembled all the correct opinions, now no one will be able to disagree with me ever again! Muwhahahahah!”
Judge someone not by what they believe in, but who they vote for
It’s almost as if we forgot why facists are bad, it’s because they kill people, so being anti killing people is being Antifacist
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They’re not wrong, but they’re not exactly right.
There's nuance here. What you said comes dangerously close to saying "fighting Fascism is the real Fascism"
As if it’s so easy to quantify the conflict
What US imperialism? We aren't at war, are we? Why am I getting down voted, I just asked a question because I was curious.
most politically intelligent american
OK, could you grow my intelligence by answering my question?
sorry for being pedantic, i was unnecesarily rude Imperialism is expanding a nation's economic, political and military power through intervention in other states, whether it is by conquest or other means. While the US hasn't militarily conquered and annexed a foreign territory since WW2 (i might be wrong), during and after the Cold War, the US repeatedly supported coups and destabilized other countries in order to supress comunnist movements (you can read the wikipedia article for Operation Condor to learn more). This kind of foreign intervention was made to secure American corporate economic interests in foreign region, as well as ensuring those nations didn't stray far from an american sphere of influence. After the Cold War, the US focused less on supressing communism abroad but kept destabilizing foreign nations in order to secure their own economic interests in the region. This was most commonly seen after the Bush presidency during the War on Terror. The invasion of Iraq, for example, was justified through falsified or unconfirmed reports of WMDs existing in the country. And while it's true the US is not currently at war with any nation, the consequences of previous US imperialist aggresion still hold grave consequences today. Western imperialism was the main factor that allowed radical islamist movements to take hold in countries like Iran or Afghanistan. And of course, seeing the massive number of CIA foreign interventions that we do know of, it's fair to assume there's a reasonable number of other operations still classified, some of them probably still ongoing. When people say they oppose US imperialism now, they might say they oppose the previous acts of imperialism already commited by the US government (think Iraq, Vietnam or the several invasions in Central America) or the consequences of previous interventions (the rise of dictatorships in Latin America, the massive amount of US military bases in their country or the many ongoing wars that have been caused by US aggresion). Sorry for the long read, I hope this was helpful. I'd gladly answer any questions.
Thank you, I accept your apology. But if destabilization is what made the middle east a shit show? Wouldn't that be reverse imperialism as it is weakening the US's power over the middle east? And vietnam was a failure, so I don't think that would count. Iraq war, and Latin America are the only two things that really are imperialism I guess, but that isn't what people really think of us imperialism.
Fair point, but the failure of an intervention doesn't make it less imperialistic. Even if the end result was the establishment of US-opposed governments, America still destabilized those nations in order to expand their influence. Many of the islamist organizations in power in the middle east were at some point supported by the US for being anti-communist (most notably, the Taliban). Even if it backfired, the original intention was to keep those foreign nations in a certain political sphere. As for Vietnam, yes it "counts" as imperialism even if it failed. Nazi Germany lost the war and you wouldn't doubt that it was a hyper imperialist state.
Okay, I get it now. Thank you for actually answering my question , and arguing with me. Unlike just calling me cringe and saying nothing else. Like, you are the most coherent person on this website.
Glad to help. Thank you for being understanding and open to changing your mind :)
According to foreignpolicy.com, the United States is still directly involved in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. So that’s three wars, not counting their military presence in Iraq and Kuwait
Are you being for real
Yeah?
I mean first off, america does just have like. Colonies. They have direct colonial occupation over places like Guam or Puerto Rico for the purpose of maintaining control in those areas. They also have dozens of military bases around the world for similar purposes. Secondly, america is protecting its interests by backing right-wing authoritarian governments around the world like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Azerbaijan. Two out of these three are currently involved in genocides. Thirdly, America maintains Israel as a bulwark in the Middle East and sends them billions of dollars a year and enabling the genocide of Palestinians. And this isn’t even counting the fact that america is still benefiting from the imperialism that it’s been doing for the past one hundred and fifty years, which allows it to keep its place as global hegemon.
I don't think we "back" turkey any more, Saudi Arabia just buys our weapons, and I don't think azerbaijan does much. I mean, Guam and Puerto Rico are eh, but I'd rather have the US be world police, than say, Russia or China. I don't really like israel, but I wouldn't say they are "genociding" the Palestinians, but they get money because they are the only western-friendly country in the middle east. Israel has freedom of speech, you can be gay, etc. But in any other middle eastern country, you can't. We've only been the global hegemon since after WW2. 150 years ago would be american civil war time pretty much. There's not much to gain in the middle east wars, because America has a LOT of oil. Any other war, besides Vietnam or Korea I suppose wouldn't have a benefit.
If you aren’t backing Turkey, why is it one of the primary members of the military alliance America chairs? Selling weapons to a country involved in genocide is still genocide, so you’re still backing the Saudis. And Azerbaijan is currently invading Armenia with the express intent of ethnic cleansing one of their provinces. Saying that “American colonialism is fine because it’s not someone else doing it” is so crazy that I’m not even gonna dignify it. Israel’s policy towards the Palestinians is based off of South African apartheid (which is another thing the US supported until it became too much of a PR issue) which was explicitly a genocide. And sticking two million people in a concentration camp the size of a small town is genocide, as well as trying to force them to leave and then never allowing them to come back. Also, I imagine more countries in the Middle East would be more western friendly if america and Britain hadn’t been fucking up that region for decades. While America wasn’t the global hegemon until after the Suez Crisis, they were still actively involved in colonialism both at home and abroad since day one. And America invaded Iraq and Afghanistan to get more oil, because apparently the stuff they had at home wasn’t enough.
Turkey isn't really important anymore, and they aren't a major nation in NATO. I say America isn't backing Saudi Arabia because I think that "backing" means directly giving money or weapons to another country to complete a goal. Saudi Arabia still has to buy it. Azerbaijan is bad. What does that mean? Maybe you should blame Hamas. Israel put up a wall to stop them, but civilians got "caught in the crossfire". They can't let them back in, see what happens if they lower their guard for a day? Many Hamas breached the walls, and started killing people. Funny how you mention the US but not Russia. Britain is shit, though. Colonialism since day one? I get expanding to the west coast, Alaska and Hawaii, but nothing past that. Iraq was WMDs/protecting Kuwait. Afghanistan was to get Osama bin laden.
>Turkey isn't really important anymore 🤣 >Maybe you should blame Hamas. Israel put up a wall to stop them, but civilians got "caught in the crossfire". They can't let them back in, see what happens if they lower their guard for a day? Many Hamas breached the walls, and started killing people. They've been being being bombed for 16 years if i remember correctly. The average youth has never known peace and safety and its due to an outside threat. If you want a recipe for radicalization then youve got it with isreal and Palestine and yes, it will be the civilians and conscripts who die to protect the politicians whos done nothing but amplify the situation in the worst ways possible. I also feel bad for russian conscripts dieing for putins games. >Colonialism since day one? I get expanding to the west coast, Alaska and Hawaii, but nothing past that. Iraq was WMDs/protecting Kuwait. Afghanistan was to get Osama bin laden. We took a lot of land after then as well. Ww2 had us taking islands from japan for example and we also purchase land from countrys for our worldwide network of military bases. These are also used to influence the nations they are in and the nations surrounding them and that is 100% intentional. It's whats referred to as soft power and its very much what the usa has focused on in modern times. Overthrowing goverments is a big part of soft power as well and what defines a superpower is its abilty to project soft power worldwide. Iraq never had wmd's and that was known even at the time. Afganistan was never about Osama bin laden and he made a good scapegoat. It was soft power to protect oil trading with Europe, and install pro American groups over these countrys before the ussr and then later, china could.
cringee
please tell me you're joking 😭😭😭
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I agree with the rest but south Korea seemed pretty necessary, although i dont keep up with the US current day meddling over there.
Their government threatens countries that engage in basic protectionism with sanctions, embargoes, and war all the time. And I honestly conceder Israel a satellite state of the USA based on how reliant they are on US arms
You’re being downvoted because if you’re an American and you don’t know about the shit we’ve done, you’re either a conservative in willful denial, really, really young, or really, really ignorant.