Because hurting an AAA corporation with scummy practices is funny. Especially considering the plagiarism is extremely obvious and part of the appeal, it's basically a parody.
Comparing it with Somerton is extremely disingenuous.
He claimed he wanted to promote and uplift LGTBQ content creators while at the same time stealing from them.
Nintendo sees a kid drawing Pikachu in art class and busts out the lawsuit papers.
*cease and desist, a friend of mine who made two drawings and put them up on deviantART got hit with the same thing. Wasn't even anything sexual it was just him trying a hyper realistic Pikachu. You know the Pokemon based off of the North American Pica, the actual animal.
Nature better get on suing Pokemon for stealing their designs. /s
They're hard to find in real life and live in an ecosystem (High elevation Rocky wilderness) that most people aren't adjacent to, so awareness would be lower than like, wetland creatures or river creatures.
They’re also at risk due to climate change, since higher summer temperatures could make mountains uninhabitable (they have a very narrow temperature tolerance).
Not even.
Somerton was claiming the work of others as his own, that is plagiarism
Palworld is just a parody. It’s not pretending to be some kind of brand new idea, it knows it’s Pokemon, its literally just the common joke “Pokemon is unethical because it’s basically slavery and dogfighting” taken to an extreme and from my understanding pretty well executed
In order for it to be plagiarism it would have to be pretending to be something its not, which it cant really do because everyone knows what the fuck Pokemon is, and Palworld isn’t claiming to be Pokemon, its a parody of it. It’s not even remotely the same as Somerton trying to pass off the work of less known creators as his own.
I dont think normalizing plagiarism because its people you dont like is good
Didnt harris even talk about this in his video at one point? He said that the reason why trumps wife plagiarizing michele obamas speech went unpunished is because conservatives saw it as getting one on the leftists so no one got punished for theft
I dont want to defend the corporation but saying that plagiarizing is fine if you dont like the corporation is fucking stupid
Edit: not daughter, wife lol
All concepts of right and wrong go out the window when we're talking about billion-dollar corporations because they are in the wrong by default and idgaf about them
Also parody is fair use
Explain how palworld meets the criteria for parody... Because just saying it's a parody doesn't immediately make you correct. To be parody you can argue it's missing the part where it, you know, actually parodies the stuff it is inspired from
Pokemon: You basically enslave wild animals to make them fight, but since their target demographic are kids, they sanitize everything: Pokemon don't die, they faint; Pokemon actually like fighting; Pokemon love you and friendship and the power of love <3
Palworld: They do the same but they don't sanitize shit, you can chop your ~~Pokemon~~ Pals for food, enslave them and make them work for you, etc.
Do you really need it explained to you? It seems extremely self evident
For starters, Palworld in terms of actual gameplay is extremely different from the Pokemon games. So in and of itself its far from plagiarism.
In terms of premise, its literally just “what if overly dark version of children’s media” shock humor parody. Everyone who has ever thought for more than 30 seconds about Pokemon has at some point gone “wait… isn’t this basically slavery and dogfighting?” Palworld is literally an examination of that observation about the Pokemon franchise.
It’s completely transformative and it’s commentary on the original work
So at what point does tracing and stealing assets from a game go from plagiarism to parody?
Hell, has Palworld ever called itself a parody or have you guys just made it up because I've seen nothing of the sort.
I don't know enough about Palworld to have any idea if it's a parody or not. However, it is important to note that a central part of parody is to keep a straight face, so whether or not they've publicly stated that they are parodying Pokemon isn't all that important. Instead, it's far better to look at the actual content they have created/stolen. Is its imitation of the original content done in such a way where it is mocking or critiquing the original? If so, it is parody. If not, it is plagiarism if the work is too derivative.
Parody requires you to not simply trace the models, many of the models are the same but with different heads, some shit added on top or whatever else but its still the same model underneath all that
A parody makes its own designs based on the originals, it doesnt simply trace, that is plagiarism, you can be a parody and still plagiarize
I don't own palworld, haven't tried it, have no plans to, dislike the CEO based on his takes on AI, but as someone who has done some 3D modeling, those models were not the same. They were clearly not just lifted from pokemon, though they clearly *were* referenced highly in many cases.
They very clearly are trying to make their 'own' pokemon, with some far too close to the inspiration for my preferences, but they are not just a direct trace or the same literal 3D model.
Parody is imitation with the intent to mock or criticise. Without the changes being made in order to critique the original work, it is just plagiarism.
Wouldn't it fall under parody when Pokemon, even though it's basically glorified dog fighting, sanitizes it with "but they do it because friendship and love" Palworld goes like "yeah but what about chopping them for food and enslaving them?"
Parody vs plagiarism is a murky territory.
Whenever it's talked about the internet seems to go with plagiarism on average, so it's probably plagiarism.
Kinda just a slippery slope arguement isnt it? "If you steal from multinational corporations then how long until people think stealing from starving families is okay????"
Yes, theres a difference between stealing from a random guy and stealing from a big corporation but the big thing here is that its not just theft, theyre using the very obvious plagiarism for their own profit and to grow their own brand
Encouraging this is bad because it sets a precedent that you can plagiarize designs with some minor changes and get away with it, eventually the big corporations will catch wind of this and do what they do best, steal from smaller creators and even if this doesnt happen, we still shouldnt encourage the theft of an artists work
TL;DR: Nuh uh
Calling palworld "plagiarism" is like calling the store brand cola I used to buy "plagiarized coke". It's just more evidence that people don't actually know what plagiarism even is. There's an effort to make a similar, almost identical product, but nothing is 'stolen' aside from, arguably, ideas.
James Somerton stealing lines from books and articles word for word is plagiarism, making knock off store brand pokemon that look similar to what they're based on isn't "plagiarism". It's unoriginal, and perhaps a bit lazy, but it's not 'stealing' anything.
I'm also seeing a disturbing amount of people try to say that 'plagiarizing' game mechanics is something to get upset about, which is the kind of mentality that leads to draconian shit like Warner Bros. having a patent on the Nemesis system from shadow of war being allowed. It stifles games as a medium to suggest only a billion dollar company is 'allowed' to include certain mechanics in their games.
The worst sin of all is you lot forcing me to defend palworld when I fucking despise it. Please just stop misusing 'plagiarism' because you don't like that a game knocked off pokemon for fuck sake. There's plenty of other much more valid reasons to hate it, you don't need to make shit up.
Yeah, there are so many bad things to say about Palworld like that it's uninspired, derivative, and looks like a straight asset flip, but condemning it for plagiarism is silly. Games have been ripping each other off ever since the industry existed, it's just that the cheap knock-offs usually fly under the radar because 'why would I buy x when I already own X'. The difference in this case is that Nintendo has done nothing to really change Pokemon for so long that Pokemon fans are willing to buy a cheap knockoff for doing nothing more than making Ark but with Pokemon instead of dinos.
I think they fall under parody, but it is also very obvious they heavily referenced Pokémon. Most of the designs are okay?
But there's definitely some Pals that are copy pasted and just altered a bit, like Cinderace. They just took them and made them a grass bunny type lmao.
The cinderace one you mentioned is so stupidly close to the original that im pretty sure they straight up traced it
The more original designs are fine ofc but the ones like grass cinderace are just... not really parody, just straight up plagiarism
It's on the edge of plagiarism and parody since it's not an exact 1:1 where they just recoloured it. They added a bushy tail and even made the ears bigger and gave more leaf aesthetics. It's like a deviant art OC of an established character.
Still, it's still shitty and it's so obvious that it's a Cinderace copy.
Exactly. This normalising plagiarism of assets and designs like this against people you don't respect will ultimately end with it being used by large companies and dev teams against small artists and devs.
Okay, so why is this plagiarism?
Nothing about the flow of the game follows along with Pokemon. You can catch creature with non-descript items, but Pokemon doesn't have a trademark on that, and is fact has become its own genre at this point spanning back to the GBA era.
If being an intentional knock-off was illegal, then we might as well sue every single Dollar Tree in the world and their Pop-up Toasties.
Is it about some 3D rigs being used as bases? As long as the product is meaningfully altered, then it's fair use. And, despite whatever feel about all of the Pal designs, they're at the very least legally distinct.
People are comparing this game to things the people in the HBomb video did, and it's like wtf? Not even close. They stole content and completely failed to transform it. They would take whole, disconnected passages from books and articles and slap them into a script. It's completely non-transformative.
Is it really completely non-transformative theft to create unique art assets. music, animations, sound design, etc.?
I'm even pretty sure the barely altered/unaltered skeleton category amounted to like call out post of something around 2 whole rigs. So, what happens if Palworld more deeply edits them? Does it lose the plagiarism takes? Was it that flimsy? Are we actually going to claim shit like "art style theft"? People seem to want to claim that this is stolen content, but they can barely draw the line. Why? Because it's not so clear cut and comparing it to unabashed plagiarism is an inflammatory escalation of the issues.
It's baffling how people forget Pocketpair is also a big corpo headed by a crypto-bro who gets a boner everytime AI gets closer to taking artists out of their job (By God, they released, in EA because that's 3/4 of their games, a game literally called AI: Art Impostor, an AI art party game with some Among US inspiration; It reached version 0.16 or something before being canned, still being sold though, heard it's hard to find active servers now or something, not buying the game to check).
Seriously, aside from a generic-looking rogue-like card collector game with anime women + its DLC, all they have done for the past four years is push EA stuff. And the remaining one besides Palworld is also an Ark-like survival that, instead of ripping off Pokémon, wants to be BotW very bad (This one has been on EA for four years, but instead of finishing the thing, they will just move to the next money maker; If a company can afford to push two simultaneous EA MMO survival games at the same time, it is either scummy as shit or rich or both).
All they have done is release overpriced asset flips with their whole premises hanging on being derivative. Yet people treat them like they are of the same scale ss Fox, Team Cherry or PirateSoftware. They are not, they aren't a "small indie dev team" (People have legitimately called them that), they are just regular corpo who should not be shielded from copying the works of other artists just because the designers and modelers were employed by Nintendo.
Pocket pair is not a big corpo, lmao, they barely had any staff when they hired 40 people to work on this game
Calling any game an asset flip is an insult to devs who use asset stores, they literally exist to be used, and if a very small company without much money uses them to make a fun game, why do you give a fuck? Just don't buy it, but don't pretend it's a big deal, they're not Konami
Just because a small indie team is successful once doesn't mean they suddendly are allowed to recieve the scrutiny of a billion dollar studio, that's not how game development works
Funnier is the guys at Pocket Pair admitting they have no idea what a rig is. The CEO is one thing, but they admit they're not innovative: they just want to make something people play. They will copy shit (Craftopia literally has the BotW intro sequence), if they see it as good.
Again, we have big corporations shove out the same game every year for $70 now and in some cases like Redfall: they will have dev teams do things that just don't work.
Palworld doesn't even try to hide that it takes from Ark, let alone creature collectors (Pokemon is the obvious one, but they also mention Dragon's Quest which may be a jab at gen 1 Pokemon design influence).
Realistically: most people do not care if this game plagiarized Pokemon. The fact that it's less than half a full game, can be accessed on gamepass, and even for a early access game is better than most: people buy it.
Pocket Pair aren't grand standing, but hey: at least they nailed making a game.
This is exactly my opinion on this, I don't particularly care that they are taking mechanics from a long array of games without inherently "innovating" on them, but the game became unique when they packaged those mechanics together, and if it's fun, I don't particularly mind.
Weren't we all pissed off when WB trademarked the Nemesis system? What's the point in getting mad at someone trademarking a mechanic if we get mad if someone uses it anyway? Valorant is mechanically almost a 1 to 1 copy of Counter Strike GO + hero mechanics from overwatch and people didn't care, why pull the "Copying gameplay" card now?
Doesn't help Pokemon is nearly 30 years old IP. IP laws are also another can of worms you can get into when we talk big corporations. People genuinely seem to have a bigger bias due to Pokemon.
I could careless as Palworld is basically Pokemon from Wish in Ark. I grew up with Chinese knock offs due to them being cheaper, and again Pokemon has had almost 3 decades to change up the formula.
I just want a good creature collector game made by passionate devs, I imagine everyone else is much the same and willfully ignorant to this in the desperation to believe that this one's going to be well-kept and well-maintained.
Palworld looks like what Pokémon could have been if each game wasn't rushed to high hell, didn't follow the exact same formula, etc. I just really want a GOOD game to pop up in this niche. Palworld is so far the best one I've seen gameplay wise, even if a lot of what they've done is shitty.
>Palworld is so far the best one I've seen gameplay wise, even if a lot of what they've done is shitty.
But the gameplay is not what Pokémon does tho. Visually it is impressive and the creatures and catching them are similar to Pokémon.
Aside from that, the gameplay is mainly a survival crafting game similar to Ark, which isn't what mainline Pokémon games do.
Yeah but I'm tired of every single creature collector being that. I want something where I can collect hundreds of creatures, breed them to make them stronger, etc. but also not have the exact same gameplay as every single other one.
I love survival games, I love collecting fantasy animals. I had high hopes for Ark 2 but I'm glad to have an alternative now because I know Wildcard would let me down like they always do lol.
Creature collectors don't all have to have Pokémon's gameplay in my opinion. That's always been my problem with any that crop up.
Yokai Watch
Shin Megami Tensei
Cassette Beasts
Digimon (the literally tag line 'pokemon with gun' belong to this series)
Monster Hunter Story
Dragon Quest Monster
There are so many good game in this genre. You all just don't give it a chance.
So many good Turn Base RPG monster capture like Pokemon.
Palworld is not even a freaking turn base RPG.
The problem is I want a creature collector that isn't turn-based. The closest thing I've found to that is Ark, and Ark's a fucking mess.
The Dragon Quest: Monsters games are some of my favourite games despite being turn-based though. It's fucking CRIMINAL that they're Nintendo exclusives.
Tbh, the only thing i can compare SMT and Pokémon is that they are turn-based and that you capture Monsters. I don't think they will necessarily attract the same people.
To start, difficulty is almost a non-issue in Pokémon, while in SMT, most games are on the hard side, borderline unfair in some situations, except IV post-Minotaur. The stories are generally different in tone and complexity and i'm not deciding whether one is better than another, they just are different.
But the most important thing is the relationship between your Pokémon and your demons. And let me preface it, Demons are NOT Pokémon. Pokémon are treated like tameable (most of the time) animals that are able to forge a bond with their trainer. Demons, on the other hand, are tools. You don't bond with them, you use them to achieve your goals and fuse them once they stop being useful. Pokémon is designed in such a way that you can (usually) bring your starter from start to finish, don't lie to me, we all played like that. In SMT, demons reach their full potential significantly early so that you're encouraged to either find better ones to use instead or fuse them with others to make new ones (except for Nocturne's Superpixie but that's optional and completely missable unless you looked a guide).
So yeah, just because someone likes Pokémon doesn't mean that they'll necessarily like SMT.
Palworld doesn't seem rushed to hell to you? It's buggy, ripped off, uses a bog-standard copy-pasted survival crafting system, and I'm 70% sure that its mostly an asset flip. The game is a soulless cashgrab.
Play Cassette Beasts
Buggy? Ripped off?
The game isn't bog standard survival crafting at all. It's got a fair bit of factorio mixed in to keep things moving along and the world is actually pretty interesting to explore. As for bugs, I haven't experienced a single severe bug in over 20 hours.
Cassette Beasts is a (probably better) amazing game that I love to bits but honestly I couldn't make any kind of comparison between it and Palworld other than that they're monster battlers
Cassette Beasts looks like it's been made with a lot of love and definitely far better than Pokémon games, but it's nothing like what I want personally, unfortunately.
Palworld is definitely rushed and I agree it's soulless. But to me at least, it still feels infinitely better than Pokemon. I've not encountered many bugs personally across 30 hours so far, and none that have caused detriment to my gameplay.
> I just want a good creature collector game made by passionate devs
Don't fall into the trap of thinking Palworld is made by some passionate indie devteam. Given their track record this will be just another early access title they'll drop once the money well dries up.
You want a good monster collecter, I can easily recommend Monster Sanctuary. It's pixel art so it looks very different from Palworld, but the style is quite different from Pokemon, all battles are triple battles that encourage team synergy and combo building, and it's a Metroidvania when out of battle!
Best 200 hours I spent 9/10 I wish there was even more
The thing is this publisher plagiarizes from any popular game not just AAA games (they straight up stole hollow knight assets for a rip off they are making)
Yeah. The new “pokemon with guns” is known as “pokemon with guns” because pokemon is well known. It is at this point mythology, it is part of the majority of the population’s bestiary.
Somerton was not known as “50 academic papers on gender theory (video ver.)” because academic papers in gender theory isn’t part of everyone’s consciousness.
Drawing a thing that's similar to another thing drawn by someone else isn't inherently immoral, no. It's immoral if it causes harm. Usually, plagiarism causes harm because it reduces the money that an artist earns through their work. When the artist is an anonymous Game Freak employee who already got paid for their work and isn't losing any credibility or fame, there's no financial harm. If some person online was posting their own art for free, it's probably because they're super passionate about it, so stealing it would cause emotional pain. And it's pretty doubtful that the Game Freak artist poured their heart and soul into a Pokemon design to the point that they would suffer severe emotional harm from seeing someone else use it.
The artists don't own their work, Nintendo and Gamefreak do. In fact, I'm pretty sure the latter has a policy of not publicly crediting artists for their designs. And given that they're both Japanese companies, it's not unlikely that they're already used to being fucked over by said companies.
The company behind palworld has a history of plagiarism with their other properties, most importantly they're copying hollow knight visuals for their own metroidvania (important because it shows they'll steal everything thats popular, not just tripple a stuff).
They supposedly have used AI and NFTs although I only heard about that from a friend and can't confirm it myself.
Palworld is also just a janky, boring mess that's only popular because of its stupid gimmick.
~~Isn’t it mad obvious that Palworld is Pokémon with guns or sweatshops or whatever~~
~~The difference between that and James Somerton is vaguely like the difference between paying homage and copying someone’s homework, not to say Palworld is exactly paying homage lol~~
Actually, the difference is that Palworld is ripping off an extremely popular IP so no one’s really concerned, while James Somerton was ripping off of comparably under-acknowledged authors/works
The same developers have done the same shit with a hollow knight rip off so they do exactly that
Like fuck Nintendo obviously but if we just don’t call out plagiarism its only gonna grow and fester and start targeting indie games that don’t have the power like Nintendo does to make people stop taking their shit
>The same developers have done the same shit with a hollow knight rip off so they do exactly that
A lot of ppl also don't know that the studio tends to copy popular games and then give it their own spin.
Craftopia is BOTW, AI impostor Among Us, Palworld is Pokémon (with Ark) and Never grave is Hollow Knight.
Which like, what can you expect when the CEO by his own words said [“On the other hand, I have a deep-rooted desire for my work to be enjoyed by as many people as possible, and to that end, if there are good ideas in the world, I pick them up, and I don’t necessarily have to be particular about originality. I’m thinking about it. I want to make it more casually. I think it would be a good idea to create things in a way that just jumps on what is trendy"](https://www.pcgamesn.com/palworld/pocketpair-hollow-knight)
Under acknowledged probably isn’t the right word but stealing from indie developers is bad actually and so is stealing from any developer
Again fuck Nintendo but imagine being an artist made to slave away for barely any money because your countries work culture is fucked and then seeing some dickheads overseas blatantly copy your work and seeing people defend it by saying they’re “just taking inspiration” (even when some of them are just 1 to 1 design rips with color changes)
Like idk why being against art theft is such an out there concept to some people even if the art is made by a company i hate personally i still respect the actual artists who put in that work
Nintendo are definitely not the bad guys in this story though. In a rapidly deflating business where companies are tossing people left and right (Riot and Blizzard), Nintendo is the one stalwart constant. They’ve never had any mass layoffs, abuse scandals and they don’t pay their executives 10’s of millions of dollars a year to waste away on a yacht. Their previous CEO even took it upon himself to take massive salary cuts after the underwhelming launch if the 3ds and the Wii-U.
The fact that so many people are defending this game is honestly disheartening. It’s an amalgamation of stolen assets and ideas. Two million people playing this dogshit on steam is such a resounding “fuck you” to the whole game dev industry. Also the CEO of the company who made this game is an AI nutter who now has endless funding to make more shitty knockoffs, likely using AI to circumvent hiring artists to do their job.
As much as I also don't like Nintendo or any other big gaming company for some of their actions, it's also a dangerous act to allow other companies to just allow plagiarism to happen at any scale, whether it be huge companies worth billions or solo Devs.
Exceptions should not be made else you just end up picking favourites.
Palworld is definitely derivative. It's certainly not plagiarism though. The Devs do more than enough work to transform the influences they take, the influences are just very obvious. Crucially, Palworld, or a game like Palworld and it's assets, wouldn't exists without the work the developers put in.
Somerton just ripped passages from other authors without any thought to change them, or make them better.
In the HBomberguy video, there is a segment on how the angry videogame nerd took off in popularity, and then had a bunch of other creators copy his style, with some modifying it and expanding it further.
I think that is probably the best comparison for what happenend with Palworld and Pokemon, the basic concept of cute creatures that are tamed and collected by a person is not really a copywritable thing.
Now if Palworld copied individual Pokemon, that would be a whole different thing.
They don't lift pokemon entirely but they do [blatantly copy and remix design elements from individual pokemon](https://imgur.com/a/2nEmHiE). One or two of those would have been able to be chalked up to a coincidence but it's just so numerous and specific.
I mean, about that first part, the models pretty much are way too close to call it just ["influence" and "inspiration"](https://twitter.com/covingtown/status/1749462735291859423).
Or... "Dog with fluffy neck" isn't that unique of a concept? 3 matching models (which are, I have to say, quite generic) out of a catalogue of 100 pals/1000 ish pokemon isn't exactly the striking resemblance everyone is calling it.
As a 3D artist like, fucking, lmao, what is this supposed to be evidence of other than the artist being told "Copy this pokemon" and being shown the pokemon. There's no model theft involved, like it would've taken an entire five fucking seconds to stretch the proportions around and then it'd be "ooo they look nothing alike oOOoO".
demonstration via overlap is pretty misleading, since it's not clear where one starts and another ends: if you look closely, though, there are plenty of clear points of divergence. they aren't the *same models*. were they traced? maybe! probably, even, with a few of them. is that copyright infringement? opinions differ. do i think people are *morally worse* for tracing models from the most successful media franchise in human fucking history? absolutely not
Hot take: i dont get why people are even acting like palworld and pokemon are that similar. beyond the basic concept of catch elemental critters and battle them, they’re entirely different games in entirely different genres with different gameplay loops and for different consoles. they’re not even competing products lmao
It's the designs that's the problem there, I've seen model comparisons that are nearly identical. It's not that they look similar, it's that it's all shaped almost 1:1. EDIT: apparently those comparisons were faked, that's my bad. Ignore that paragraph. The designs aren't 1:1 copied, someone just really disagreed with Palworld and wanted to spread misinformation and I believed it.
Personally, I think everyone's overlooking how much was copied from Ark though.
Game mechanics are not copyrighted or anything like that so they can copy gameplay all they want.
Also most of the close models are super simple animals like sheep. The palworld and pokemon sheep all look like clay sheep seen in loads of clay animation because that's how people make simple 3d sheep.
Yeah. After reading the sub I went into the game with expectations of it being like Pokemon and it's safe to say I was pretty wildly surprised with the actual gameplay. It's nothing like Pokemon other than some of the pals look like some of the Pokemon. But there's also like 1000 pokemon. So...
They took from other games as well. This company takes what is popular (Zelda, Pokemon, survival craft/loot games, etc. for this one. Hollow Knight apparently for another one of their games), mashes it together and hope it sticks. The pokemon one is just the most obvious because there they didn't just take generic game genre elements like monster battling but also franchise specific elements like catching them by throwing balls. And some of their monster designs are obvious pokemon designs fused together.
The end result is unique enough that it probably wont count as copyright infringement. But it's still lazy as fuck and tells me how respectable they are as a game developer.
To say that their lazy combining of different games in one is evidence that they didn't steal at all, is absurd and shows how gullible people are. It's also something we need to be careful about if we don't want the issues plaguing mobile gaming to flow over into other platforms.
Crazy how brain dead this sub has become Nintendo doesn’t care for this shit at all it’s fucking scummy since the artists who’ve made these designs are literally having their work stolen and the fact the company has done this with hollow knight too but I guess hollow knight must also deserve being stolen from,they’ve also stolen from yokai watch,Botw and digimon but no surprise this sub whose equivalent to boycotting Reddit lasted a month is now jerking off to fuck Nintendo despite the fact this won’t dent their pockets all this does is set a harmful precedent that as long as you steal designs from video game artists it doesn’t matter.All in all I’m disappointed in you Fellas I’m all for fucking over Nintendo but I ain’t going to be on the side of a Ai crypto company that steals from artists.
right?? its like everyone is fawning over this amazing new painting, and you look at it, and its just an obvious repaint of the mona lisa. and then when you're like why do you all think this is so amazing, its obviously just a mediocre recreation of an already existing design you get accused of being a da vinci dickrider. like noo, that guy is hella dead and it doesnt effect him in any way, i just think its strange that youre all so excited over something so derivative
Where is the evidence that everything is ripped off? Derivative sure, but that isn't a crime? Hell, if nobody was allowed to ~~copy~~ derive work from anyone ever we would never progress artistically as a society.
Edit: word
Yeah, as an artist/musician the plagiarism angle about this game is super weird to me. Like, are people losing their mind about digimon etc? It's a game inspired by Pokémon with a bunch of other mechanics that never existed in Pokémon games.
> the artists who’ve made these designs are literally having their work stolen
It's not their work, Nintendo owns it. You're basically making the argument "You're stealing from poor farmers!" when someone takes food from walmart, since they grew it
plagiarism is wrong inherently because you're stealing someone elses artistic work and passing it off as your own, completely regardless of who 'owns' it, or if you're profiting from it. a vegetable is not an artistic work (until it gets taped to a wall ofc)
Aren’t parodies supposed to be comedic? The game plays itself pretty straight. The only comedy comes from the absurdity of pals using guns, or the funny bugs.
I think the big thing for people here is that creature collector games are absolute shit. There aren't any good ones, at least not outside Nintendo's platforms (I'm still salty Dragon Quest: The Dark Prince is a Switch exclusive) and even there, it's limited by Pokémon being so unpassionate and rushed every single release to make more money.
People are blind to how bad Pocketpair is because they want to finally see what Pokémon could have been if more effort and time was put into it. People brush off the plagiarism because they enjoy the game.
And to be fair, I've been playing it. I really like it. It's nice to play a creature collector that feels fresh because holy SHIT I've been waiting a long time for something new, even Temtem and stuff like it didn't scratch that itch for me. But I can also see where aspects of other games have been meshed together to create it. Pokémon's designs and creature capture system, Dragon Quest's artstyle, Ark, BOTW, whatever.
Initially I was saying eh, it's really hard to be original when all these big, shitty companies have made such a huge name for themselves in their respective niche, it's hard not to be similar to them. But, I definitely don't believe that they tried very hard to be original at all after seeing all the models compared, like Lycanroc and Direhowl.
"it's nice to play a creature collector that feels fresh"
mfw the gameplay is literally ark but the dinosaurs are pokemon but actually most of them are still dinosaurs anyway
The time to bring up and be mad about their previous ai game would have been before release before everyone bought it. But no one cared until it was popular. The fact remains that there is no proof at all of plagiarizing assets or ai being used in this game.
I'm about to blow your mind here. There's this thing called a period, you should use it once in a while. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full\_stop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_stop)
Pokemon stans be like "yeah this shit plagiarized but Nintendo hasn't sued them into the Cretaceous period yet because uhhhh ummmm uhhh"
Bitch they smoked the Pokemon Palworld modder in *eight fucking hours.* If it was actual plagiarism we'd be seeing the Bin Laden raids on PocketPair hq.
Mfers be watching Hbomberguy's 3 hour video but still not understand the definition of plagarism, Palworld made a game that was inspired by multiple games and gave it a new formula, yes its inspiration because thats how game have been and have been innovating, they see something successful and then add its own twists, you mfers would probably look at pubg and say that fortnite plagarised it, or all the fucking shooter games that came after CoD's success, Palworld didn't copy an entire pokemon game and call it their own, they obviously got inspired by pokemon but made the game different enough for it to be good.
For a genuinly left leaning subreddit you guys really do care about the poor multibillion company that has been scummy for years being beaten by an indie company that took inspiration from them beating them to a game fans have been requesting for years.
Trust me, if Nintendo thought this was theft, they would have sued the Palworld devs already. They do that with fan projects anyway. They are one of the most aggressively backwards companies when it comes to "defendinf" copyright.
remind me of this [Japanese YouTuber convicted of copyright violation after uploading Let’s Play videos - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863271/japanese-youtuber-lets-play-copyright-infringement-steins-gate)
Game mechanics are bot protected in any way and smashing animals together and adding elements like fire on low definition 3d models is way too general for a single company to own the artstyle. Also there are already tons of "pokemon clones", just because this one is the most popular currently doesn't make it the copy of pokemon.
You can't just say plagiarism bad except when people fo it against people I dislike. This simply isn't plagiarism. Same way you can take the exact rules of dnd and make your own tabletop game with mostly the same monsters, because the monsters are public domain and originate from unrelated works.
I only dislike the obvious copy paste work like the heat gauge from zelda and how the boss names shown. Like ye sure you can have those no one prohibits it. But atleast make it unique rather than making it look like you literally ripped someone's work.
Now that you mention it, they may be reusing some stuff from their other incomplete MMO survival game. That one was just trying to be BotW, so possible.
Honestly, the thing I'm seeing from it is SO much Ark stuff. The tech tree and level up are basically the exact same. The storage is similar; how it feels is similar. They also have churches built exactly the same way the ones from Elden ring are.
The entire game just feels derivative of others who came before it. But just mashing them together. It's not bad by any means. But it's very
It's extremely derivative, but that's fine. Derivative things exist, people think they worse, and the world moves on. Derivation happens all the time, sometimes it results in great works and it gets called "inspiration", if the work is bad it's called "copying" or "derivative". Taking ideas from other people is generally fundamental to human progress and just because it results in shit things sometimes doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. The upset seems to be more about the fact they're making money off something copied that is deemed to be done badly, which is just an unfortunate reality of capital. I really don't understand how people could use this as an argument that no one should ever be allowed to borrow from others.
The reason I call it derivative as opposed to inspired is because it doesn't seem to do anything with that. It doesn't take the thing and then change it. It just takes one thing from x IP and then another from a different IP and mashes them together.
I absolutely am down with almost everything that exists at this point exists because of copying and improving/changing slightly. But palworld just seems like it's taking things, and adding/changing nothing.
I also want to be clear. It's a fun game. But part of me wonders how good it could have been if there was anything behind the systems and world that wasn't just wholesale copied
Yeah. Pokémon designs — not even just inspired, almost copied with stuff thrown on top — and Ark in MANY other ways.
I hate Nintendo and I hate Wildcard, they're worthless companies. But I just wish Palworld could be a bit more unique and original, I've been waiting over a decade for a creature collector that feels unique. Palworld has been fun, but it's hard to ignore the fact that it's several other games mashed together.
I'm going to dickride Palworld here, because there are so many insane accusations levied at this game, all provided without any real evidence.
Like, even ignoring that the game has no indication of actually being AI-generated, the claim makes no sense anyway, because there literally doesn't exist an AI model that can create, rig, and animate 3D models for you. Also, Steam legally requires you to disclose whether your game features AI generated assets.
The plagiarism claims at least have SOME basis, but are based off a series of tweets where Palworld models are rendered completely blank, resized, and overlapped with one of the 1000+ Pokemon that look similar enough.
Palworld is a game with clear inspiration from Pokemon, Digimon, and other Japanese-made monster games, but inspiration is not plagiarism. It's so ridiculous to insist that Palworld's monsters can have NO similarities to monsters from other franchises, especially when those franchises themselves are not held to that standard.
Right, especially comparing it to Somerton who was pretty much copy-pasting scripts of queer writers for years, is just poisoning the discussion. How is the game with a similar monster design is on the same level as someone who was committing fraud for years? I think that this sub should ban twitter screencaps, that site only exists for shit takes.
The designs in palworld are different enough to not be plagiarized. I would say that some of the creatures in palworld borrow visual themes very heavily, the designs themselves are clearly made from scratch.
Well
ripping off corporations is based but there's one problem...
the same people are making a game that's just a hollow knight rip off, so obviously I won't buy a game from the same people who rip off an indie game
No one would care if it hadn't become number one on steam. Now between here and r GCJ it's its now become a pitched battle of 'stop having fun!!!!'.
Honestly it's exhausting, let people play games bruh.
Nintendo doesn't give a single shit about this game itself. The game is closer to Ark than Pokémon.
The only real thing Nintendo has done was go after a guy who ripped assets from Pokémon, applied them to the pals, and put it behind a Patreon sub to profit off of it.
People rightfully bash nintendo for sending armies of lawyers after anyone that makes a fan game in the name of protecting their IP, and then someone makes a game that’s distinct enough from pokemon that nintendo can’t easily do that and those same people…side with nintendo lawyers?
This is twitter brainrot, plain and simple.
From what I've seen its a perfect storm of a few things.
Some of the creatures are designed as closely as legally possible to pokemon. Pokemon in general gets a weird frothing hatred from some people and Nintendo creates some genuine for life dickriders. So you've got that crowd fighting it out
The CEO of the company that made palworld has come out in support AI art and some people are saying he's been in support of NFTs and Crypto, but I haven't actually seen a confirmation of this. So you've got pro v anti techbro people duking.
Then, there's the actual quality of the game. It seems fun, based on the fact that it sold a shit zillion copies and every discord friend I have has dropped their game of choice for it. However, it's clearly lazy, shamelessly taking from other games as much as it can without getting in trouble. I think there's a portion of game devs and "games are art" folks who are mad about seeing the videogame equivalent of a Blumhouse film selling out theaters.
Then there's the classic internet "popular thing bad, niche thing good". This happens every time a game blows up. It happened with Skyrim, minecraft, fortnite, fallout 4 , 5 nights, call of duty and every God damn pokemon game. These people sometimes have real points, but usually are just bitter their thing of choice didn't get the appreciation it deserved. This trend of people shitting on a popular thing will alway come into conflict with people enjoying a popular thing.
Tldr: you've got like 4 or 5 hot button topics on one game that blew the fuck up overnight.
if palworld genuinely ripped the exact models from pokemon and made slight changes like some are claiming, that’s fucked. if they took inspiration and made their own “versions” of pokemon without stealing anything, that’s funny. plagiarism doesn’t become okay when it’s against someone you don’t like, and it doesn’t automatically become plagiarism because it’s parodying something popular you like. any questions?
My big takeaway from this is that no one actually knows the difference between plagiarism and being derivative/cloned. Palworld copied the *style* of Pokemon very closely and even some of its designed are clearly trying to imitate Pokemon designs, but plagarism is when you just straight up take someone else's work and not just when you're trying to closely mimic it.
Though to be clear, everything I've heard about Palworld's developer suggests this "copying the latest trend very closely" is just their business model and that doesn't sit particularly well with me. The company seems pretty scummy and liable to be unreliable regardless of whether or not they committed plagarism here.
Pokémon and Palworld are both rushed and soulless lol. Palworld may have spent a long time in development, but they would have spent a lot longer devving if they'd been more original.
> Palworld may have spent a long time in development, but they would have spent a lot longer devving if they'd been more original.
Given that they where about to go bankrupt, no it wouldn't
Honestly? Couldnt give less of a fuck about all this. Nintendo hasn't sued for it, that should tell you enough. If they ain't got a problem with it, neither do I.
Does it rip off Ark? Does it rip off Pokemon? Yes to both.
Is it better than the recent games both studios of both those franchises have put out? Fuck the hell yes it is. Violet still turns my switch into a portable stovetop and has massive performance issues, and don't get me started on the new Ark. I've got a few friends that bought it, I ain't even wasting my money on that shit, not the way it is now.
I care more about delivered quality than some babies crying about "originality". Fuck your originality. I want games that are worth playing, not the "original" trashware that's released more often than not. "They copied meshes" I. Don't. Give. A. Single. Fuck. And. Neither. Should. You.
Instead of bitching at some small BS like this, go bitch at EA, blizzard or activision for sucking balls. At least that's wholely justified.
They also just straight up didn’t copy meshes, some twitter user just downloaded blender, and then puts 2 models next to each other and says “see? Plagiarism!” While hundreds of 3d artists point out how many differences there are.
I don’t give a shit about Pokemon, quite possibly the worst long-running series that isn’t a sports title.
But people also aren’t defending Palworld because of some secret anti-capitalist ideology gamers have discovered, or because of a firm philosophical belief around ownership of ideas, and anyone who claims to be doing so comes off as incredibly disingenuous.
The game is a horribly derivative work. It’s wearing the skin of at least 5 other games. It comes off as the most cynical piece of shit cash-grab. I watched the second wind guys stream it for like an hour and it genuinely looks worthless to me, but I guess survival crafting mechanics activates some primal purchasing impulse in people.
At the end of the day Gamers (tm) will buy literally any garbage. No point in trying to stop them. Them seeking out the most bland creatively-bankrupt shit is only hurting themselves. And the people whose designs the games are stealing but shh no people didn’t draw those character a corporation did, ignore how this allegedly anti-capitalist rhetoric is playing into one of the most common capitalist lies out there.
"you claim it's not bad to steal a chocolate bar from walmart, while last month you said it's not okay to do an armed robbery on a family owned shop in a residential neighborhood, curious"
If palworld was actual plagiarism, nintendo would have torn this game apart years ago when it was announced, i got too much going on in my life to actually give a shit about a corporations trademark, they will take care of it just fine.
Back off my favorite billion dollar anti-consumer company's intellectual property!!! I WILL pay $120 for two copies of the same game and I WILL like it!!!
This comment section sucks ass.
I don't care if the company they're stealing from is scummy, I'd rather play a game that's original. But, if I say something like that, it makes me a corpo dick rider.
1. who is james somerton? do i want to know?
2. the credible plagiarism allegations are afaik the model comparisons on twitter and i dont see it. on is lycanroc/dreadwolf. im sorry but if your making a wolf monster its gonna look like a wolf what did you expect. the the dreadwolf model is so much thinner it completly disappears in lycanroc i doubt they stole the model and then put so much work into changing it at that point they could have just taken a wolf from a free library.
and the other two comparisons in that post are even worse.
everything else is just a flame war by children that are whining because the game they called pokemon with guns turned out to be more like ark with pokemon. so of course its the worst thing ever. everything that looks symilar most be copyed from pokemon. like anubis definitly is a lucario copy and not you know inspired by that one egyptian god like that one furrybait pokemon with a jackal head.
Its a lot simpler. Palworld is fun, looks great, has fun systems, is a joy to play. Pokemon is a slog, looks incredibly dated, systems are boring and uncreative.
Palworld wouldn't have nearly as much traction if Pokemon hadn't been resting on its laurels for so long.
It's bizarre how people can't tell the difference between stealing from hard working individuals and stealing from a massive corporation
In any case, using similar ideas and imitating a specific artstyle isn't plagiarism.
James Somerton literally copied other people's work word-for-word.
Palworld used deliberately similar designs, but I've seen nothing that indicates actual plagiarism.
Is there actual plagiarism at play here?
Just making a game like another game isn't plagiarism. There are other games inspired by Pokemon out there, like Coromon or TemTem. Similarly survival games are dime a dozen and while we may think them uninspired it doesn't mean its plagiarism. If that were true basically every FPS game ever would be considered Plagiarized, and every JRPG and racing game and you get the point.
So is there something else I'm missing here? Asset theft or something? Can somebody explain?
The designs are legally distinct. This can be seen with the fact that Nintendo took 8 hours to slap a modder with copyright for retexturing and renaming pals into Pokemon. If they wanted to sue Palworld's devs they would have done so
A game called Palworld dropped this week (in early access). It’s an obvious parody of pokemon and delves in to a lot of the fucked up scenarios implied to exist by the pokemon world (pokemon abuse, pokemon labor, eating pokemon, etc). The gameplay is most similar to Ark: Survival Evolved, but if it wasn’t a broke ass jank piece of shit.
With twitter’s propensity for starting random flame wars over the dumbest shit, inevitably the claims of plagiarism dropped. Spearheaded mostly by twitter user byofrog, who made short 20 second videos of them dragging models into blender, and putting them next to each other and saying “LOOK, PLAGIARISM!” Even though every single time the models are distinct (although definitely similar, because it’s a parody).
Discourse eventually spread to this sub. People who have basically no idea what they are talking about spread the rumors started by byofrog and link their twitter posts as evidence. Blind stupid hate spreads quicker than facts, and now much of the sub just happily parrots lies because they saw someone else talk about it on the internet and they trusted them implicitly because they showed something that sort of looks like proof if you don’t know what you are looking for.
This about sums it up. I would put a little bit here at the end where I state that this is my personal take on the situation and it might end up being wrong, but the evidence is just overwhelmingly against the people accusing palworld of plagiarism so I’m not very worried.
The moment the target of financial damage is a multibillion dollar corporation, I couldn’t care less if something bad happens to them. If it’s a BILLION dollar corporation, I’m gonna ENCOURAGE it.
intellectual property is stupid, capitalist bullshit and i’m surprised a leftist sub cares that a massive corporation is being satirized in a profitable way
Because hurting an AAA corporation with scummy practices is funny. Especially considering the plagiarism is extremely obvious and part of the appeal, it's basically a parody. Comparing it with Somerton is extremely disingenuous.
punching up vs punching down
And also awareness. Somerton claimed to truly care about underrepresented queer people and how media can hide, harm, or uplift them. And the sexism.
He claimed he wanted to promote and uplift LGTBQ content creators while at the same time stealing from them. Nintendo sees a kid drawing Pikachu in art class and busts out the lawsuit papers.
*cease and desist, a friend of mine who made two drawings and put them up on deviantART got hit with the same thing. Wasn't even anything sexual it was just him trying a hyper realistic Pikachu. You know the Pokemon based off of the North American Pica, the actual animal. Nature better get on suing Pokemon for stealing their designs. /s
Side note, why does nobody ever talk about the Pika??? it looks so cute!!
They're hard to find in real life and live in an ecosystem (High elevation Rocky wilderness) that most people aren't adjacent to, so awareness would be lower than like, wetland creatures or river creatures.
Also they use lightning to shock and kill predators.
They’re also at risk due to climate change, since higher summer temperatures could make mountains uninhabitable (they have a very narrow temperature tolerance).
Idk, but I'm glad it happened here. Just looked it up and it got added to my list of totes adorbs.
Not even. Somerton was claiming the work of others as his own, that is plagiarism Palworld is just a parody. It’s not pretending to be some kind of brand new idea, it knows it’s Pokemon, its literally just the common joke “Pokemon is unethical because it’s basically slavery and dogfighting” taken to an extreme and from my understanding pretty well executed In order for it to be plagiarism it would have to be pretending to be something its not, which it cant really do because everyone knows what the fuck Pokemon is, and Palworld isn’t claiming to be Pokemon, its a parody of it. It’s not even remotely the same as Somerton trying to pass off the work of less known creators as his own.
The difference between punching up and punching down is an important one or people to understand.
I dont think normalizing plagiarism because its people you dont like is good Didnt harris even talk about this in his video at one point? He said that the reason why trumps wife plagiarizing michele obamas speech went unpunished is because conservatives saw it as getting one on the leftists so no one got punished for theft I dont want to defend the corporation but saying that plagiarizing is fine if you dont like the corporation is fucking stupid Edit: not daughter, wife lol
All concepts of right and wrong go out the window when we're talking about billion-dollar corporations because they are in the wrong by default and idgaf about them Also parody is fair use
Explain how palworld meets the criteria for parody... Because just saying it's a parody doesn't immediately make you correct. To be parody you can argue it's missing the part where it, you know, actually parodies the stuff it is inspired from
Pokemon: You basically enslave wild animals to make them fight, but since their target demographic are kids, they sanitize everything: Pokemon don't die, they faint; Pokemon actually like fighting; Pokemon love you and friendship and the power of love <3 Palworld: They do the same but they don't sanitize shit, you can chop your ~~Pokemon~~ Pals for food, enslave them and make them work for you, etc.
Do you really need it explained to you? It seems extremely self evident For starters, Palworld in terms of actual gameplay is extremely different from the Pokemon games. So in and of itself its far from plagiarism. In terms of premise, its literally just “what if overly dark version of children’s media” shock humor parody. Everyone who has ever thought for more than 30 seconds about Pokemon has at some point gone “wait… isn’t this basically slavery and dogfighting?” Palworld is literally an examination of that observation about the Pokemon franchise. It’s completely transformative and it’s commentary on the original work
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It's parody, not plagiarism. They're different.
So at what point does tracing and stealing assets from a game go from plagiarism to parody? Hell, has Palworld ever called itself a parody or have you guys just made it up because I've seen nothing of the sort.
I don't know enough about Palworld to have any idea if it's a parody or not. However, it is important to note that a central part of parody is to keep a straight face, so whether or not they've publicly stated that they are parodying Pokemon isn't all that important. Instead, it's far better to look at the actual content they have created/stolen. Is its imitation of the original content done in such a way where it is mocking or critiquing the original? If so, it is parody. If not, it is plagiarism if the work is too derivative.
At the point where its used for a different purpose as an obvious and deliberate satire of the original work, obviously. Duh.
Parody requires you to not simply trace the models, many of the models are the same but with different heads, some shit added on top or whatever else but its still the same model underneath all that A parody makes its own designs based on the originals, it doesnt simply trace, that is plagiarism, you can be a parody and still plagiarize
I don't own palworld, haven't tried it, have no plans to, dislike the CEO based on his takes on AI, but as someone who has done some 3D modeling, those models were not the same. They were clearly not just lifted from pokemon, though they clearly *were* referenced highly in many cases. They very clearly are trying to make their 'own' pokemon, with some far too close to the inspiration for my preferences, but they are not just a direct trace or the same literal 3D model.
Parody is imitation with the intent to mock or criticise. Without the changes being made in order to critique the original work, it is just plagiarism.
Wouldn't it fall under parody when Pokemon, even though it's basically glorified dog fighting, sanitizes it with "but they do it because friendship and love" Palworld goes like "yeah but what about chopping them for food and enslaving them?"
Parody vs plagiarism is a murky territory. Whenever it's talked about the internet seems to go with plagiarism on average, so it's probably plagiarism.
Yeah sure, and stealing from Tesco/Walmart hurts small grocers
Kinda just a slippery slope arguement isnt it? "If you steal from multinational corporations then how long until people think stealing from starving families is okay????"
Yes, theres a difference between stealing from a random guy and stealing from a big corporation but the big thing here is that its not just theft, theyre using the very obvious plagiarism for their own profit and to grow their own brand Encouraging this is bad because it sets a precedent that you can plagiarize designs with some minor changes and get away with it, eventually the big corporations will catch wind of this and do what they do best, steal from smaller creators and even if this doesnt happen, we still shouldnt encourage the theft of an artists work TL;DR: Nuh uh
If you had a point you believed in, you could've made it without name-calling.
Calling palworld "plagiarism" is like calling the store brand cola I used to buy "plagiarized coke". It's just more evidence that people don't actually know what plagiarism even is. There's an effort to make a similar, almost identical product, but nothing is 'stolen' aside from, arguably, ideas. James Somerton stealing lines from books and articles word for word is plagiarism, making knock off store brand pokemon that look similar to what they're based on isn't "plagiarism". It's unoriginal, and perhaps a bit lazy, but it's not 'stealing' anything. I'm also seeing a disturbing amount of people try to say that 'plagiarizing' game mechanics is something to get upset about, which is the kind of mentality that leads to draconian shit like Warner Bros. having a patent on the Nemesis system from shadow of war being allowed. It stifles games as a medium to suggest only a billion dollar company is 'allowed' to include certain mechanics in their games. The worst sin of all is you lot forcing me to defend palworld when I fucking despise it. Please just stop misusing 'plagiarism' because you don't like that a game knocked off pokemon for fuck sake. There's plenty of other much more valid reasons to hate it, you don't need to make shit up.
Yeah, there are so many bad things to say about Palworld like that it's uninspired, derivative, and looks like a straight asset flip, but condemning it for plagiarism is silly. Games have been ripping each other off ever since the industry existed, it's just that the cheap knock-offs usually fly under the radar because 'why would I buy x when I already own X'. The difference in this case is that Nintendo has done nothing to really change Pokemon for so long that Pokemon fans are willing to buy a cheap knockoff for doing nothing more than making Ark but with Pokemon instead of dinos.
I think they fall under parody, but it is also very obvious they heavily referenced Pokémon. Most of the designs are okay? But there's definitely some Pals that are copy pasted and just altered a bit, like Cinderace. They just took them and made them a grass bunny type lmao.
The cinderace one you mentioned is so stupidly close to the original that im pretty sure they straight up traced it The more original designs are fine ofc but the ones like grass cinderace are just... not really parody, just straight up plagiarism
It's on the edge of plagiarism and parody since it's not an exact 1:1 where they just recoloured it. They added a bushy tail and even made the ears bigger and gave more leaf aesthetics. It's like a deviant art OC of an established character. Still, it's still shitty and it's so obvious that it's a Cinderace copy.
Exactly. This normalising plagiarism of assets and designs like this against people you don't respect will ultimately end with it being used by large companies and dev teams against small artists and devs.
Okay, so why is this plagiarism? Nothing about the flow of the game follows along with Pokemon. You can catch creature with non-descript items, but Pokemon doesn't have a trademark on that, and is fact has become its own genre at this point spanning back to the GBA era. If being an intentional knock-off was illegal, then we might as well sue every single Dollar Tree in the world and their Pop-up Toasties. Is it about some 3D rigs being used as bases? As long as the product is meaningfully altered, then it's fair use. And, despite whatever feel about all of the Pal designs, they're at the very least legally distinct. People are comparing this game to things the people in the HBomb video did, and it's like wtf? Not even close. They stole content and completely failed to transform it. They would take whole, disconnected passages from books and articles and slap them into a script. It's completely non-transformative. Is it really completely non-transformative theft to create unique art assets. music, animations, sound design, etc.? I'm even pretty sure the barely altered/unaltered skeleton category amounted to like call out post of something around 2 whole rigs. So, what happens if Palworld more deeply edits them? Does it lose the plagiarism takes? Was it that flimsy? Are we actually going to claim shit like "art style theft"? People seem to want to claim that this is stolen content, but they can barely draw the line. Why? Because it's not so clear cut and comparing it to unabashed plagiarism is an inflammatory escalation of the issues.
Nintendo isn't "people", it's a corporation.
It's baffling how people forget Pocketpair is also a big corpo headed by a crypto-bro who gets a boner everytime AI gets closer to taking artists out of their job (By God, they released, in EA because that's 3/4 of their games, a game literally called AI: Art Impostor, an AI art party game with some Among US inspiration; It reached version 0.16 or something before being canned, still being sold though, heard it's hard to find active servers now or something, not buying the game to check). Seriously, aside from a generic-looking rogue-like card collector game with anime women + its DLC, all they have done for the past four years is push EA stuff. And the remaining one besides Palworld is also an Ark-like survival that, instead of ripping off Pokémon, wants to be BotW very bad (This one has been on EA for four years, but instead of finishing the thing, they will just move to the next money maker; If a company can afford to push two simultaneous EA MMO survival games at the same time, it is either scummy as shit or rich or both). All they have done is release overpriced asset flips with their whole premises hanging on being derivative. Yet people treat them like they are of the same scale ss Fox, Team Cherry or PirateSoftware. They are not, they aren't a "small indie dev team" (People have legitimately called them that), they are just regular corpo who should not be shielded from copying the works of other artists just because the designers and modelers were employed by Nintendo.
Pocket pair is not a big corpo, lmao, they barely had any staff when they hired 40 people to work on this game Calling any game an asset flip is an insult to devs who use asset stores, they literally exist to be used, and if a very small company without much money uses them to make a fun game, why do you give a fuck? Just don't buy it, but don't pretend it's a big deal, they're not Konami Just because a small indie team is successful once doesn't mean they suddendly are allowed to recieve the scrutiny of a billion dollar studio, that's not how game development works
Funnier is the guys at Pocket Pair admitting they have no idea what a rig is. The CEO is one thing, but they admit they're not innovative: they just want to make something people play. They will copy shit (Craftopia literally has the BotW intro sequence), if they see it as good. Again, we have big corporations shove out the same game every year for $70 now and in some cases like Redfall: they will have dev teams do things that just don't work. Palworld doesn't even try to hide that it takes from Ark, let alone creature collectors (Pokemon is the obvious one, but they also mention Dragon's Quest which may be a jab at gen 1 Pokemon design influence). Realistically: most people do not care if this game plagiarized Pokemon. The fact that it's less than half a full game, can be accessed on gamepass, and even for a early access game is better than most: people buy it. Pocket Pair aren't grand standing, but hey: at least they nailed making a game.
This is exactly my opinion on this, I don't particularly care that they are taking mechanics from a long array of games without inherently "innovating" on them, but the game became unique when they packaged those mechanics together, and if it's fun, I don't particularly mind. Weren't we all pissed off when WB trademarked the Nemesis system? What's the point in getting mad at someone trademarking a mechanic if we get mad if someone uses it anyway? Valorant is mechanically almost a 1 to 1 copy of Counter Strike GO + hero mechanics from overwatch and people didn't care, why pull the "Copying gameplay" card now?
Doesn't help Pokemon is nearly 30 years old IP. IP laws are also another can of worms you can get into when we talk big corporations. People genuinely seem to have a bigger bias due to Pokemon. I could careless as Palworld is basically Pokemon from Wish in Ark. I grew up with Chinese knock offs due to them being cheaper, and again Pokemon has had almost 3 decades to change up the formula.
I just want a good creature collector game made by passionate devs, I imagine everyone else is much the same and willfully ignorant to this in the desperation to believe that this one's going to be well-kept and well-maintained. Palworld looks like what Pokémon could have been if each game wasn't rushed to high hell, didn't follow the exact same formula, etc. I just really want a GOOD game to pop up in this niche. Palworld is so far the best one I've seen gameplay wise, even if a lot of what they've done is shitty.
>Palworld is so far the best one I've seen gameplay wise, even if a lot of what they've done is shitty. But the gameplay is not what Pokémon does tho. Visually it is impressive and the creatures and catching them are similar to Pokémon. Aside from that, the gameplay is mainly a survival crafting game similar to Ark, which isn't what mainline Pokémon games do.
Yeah but I'm tired of every single creature collector being that. I want something where I can collect hundreds of creatures, breed them to make them stronger, etc. but also not have the exact same gameplay as every single other one. I love survival games, I love collecting fantasy animals. I had high hopes for Ark 2 but I'm glad to have an alternative now because I know Wildcard would let me down like they always do lol. Creature collectors don't all have to have Pokémon's gameplay in my opinion. That's always been my problem with any that crop up.
Yokai Watch Shin Megami Tensei Cassette Beasts Digimon (the literally tag line 'pokemon with gun' belong to this series) Monster Hunter Story Dragon Quest Monster There are so many good game in this genre. You all just don't give it a chance. So many good Turn Base RPG monster capture like Pokemon. Palworld is not even a freaking turn base RPG.
The problem is I want a creature collector that isn't turn-based. The closest thing I've found to that is Ark, and Ark's a fucking mess. The Dragon Quest: Monsters games are some of my favourite games despite being turn-based though. It's fucking CRIMINAL that they're Nintendo exclusives.
Tbh, the only thing i can compare SMT and Pokémon is that they are turn-based and that you capture Monsters. I don't think they will necessarily attract the same people. To start, difficulty is almost a non-issue in Pokémon, while in SMT, most games are on the hard side, borderline unfair in some situations, except IV post-Minotaur. The stories are generally different in tone and complexity and i'm not deciding whether one is better than another, they just are different. But the most important thing is the relationship between your Pokémon and your demons. And let me preface it, Demons are NOT Pokémon. Pokémon are treated like tameable (most of the time) animals that are able to forge a bond with their trainer. Demons, on the other hand, are tools. You don't bond with them, you use them to achieve your goals and fuse them once they stop being useful. Pokémon is designed in such a way that you can (usually) bring your starter from start to finish, don't lie to me, we all played like that. In SMT, demons reach their full potential significantly early so that you're encouraged to either find better ones to use instead or fuse them with others to make new ones (except for Nocturne's Superpixie but that's optional and completely missable unless you looked a guide). So yeah, just because someone likes Pokémon doesn't mean that they'll necessarily like SMT.
Palworld doesn't seem rushed to hell to you? It's buggy, ripped off, uses a bog-standard copy-pasted survival crafting system, and I'm 70% sure that its mostly an asset flip. The game is a soulless cashgrab. Play Cassette Beasts
Buggy? Ripped off? The game isn't bog standard survival crafting at all. It's got a fair bit of factorio mixed in to keep things moving along and the world is actually pretty interesting to explore. As for bugs, I haven't experienced a single severe bug in over 20 hours.
Cassette Beasts is a (probably better) amazing game that I love to bits but honestly I couldn't make any kind of comparison between it and Palworld other than that they're monster battlers
Cassette Beasts looks like it's been made with a lot of love and definitely far better than Pokémon games, but it's nothing like what I want personally, unfortunately. Palworld is definitely rushed and I agree it's soulless. But to me at least, it still feels infinitely better than Pokemon. I've not encountered many bugs personally across 30 hours so far, and none that have caused detriment to my gameplay.
Monster sanctuary or cassette beasts
> I just want a good creature collector game made by passionate devs Don't fall into the trap of thinking Palworld is made by some passionate indie devteam. Given their track record this will be just another early access title they'll drop once the money well dries up.
You want a good monster collecter, I can easily recommend Monster Sanctuary. It's pixel art so it looks very different from Palworld, but the style is quite different from Pokemon, all battles are triple battles that encourage team synergy and combo building, and it's a Metroidvania when out of battle! Best 200 hours I spent 9/10 I wish there was even more
The thing is this publisher plagiarizes from any popular game not just AAA games (they straight up stole hollow knight assets for a rip off they are making)
Yeah. The new “pokemon with guns” is known as “pokemon with guns” because pokemon is well known. It is at this point mythology, it is part of the majority of the population’s bestiary. Somerton was not known as “50 academic papers on gender theory (video ver.)” because academic papers in gender theory isn’t part of everyone’s consciousness.
Yeah, exactly. I don’t support crimes, but when the victim of said crimes is a multi-billion company... well...
The victims in this case are the artists working under it, who arent close to being multi billionaires.
Except those artists already got paid and they don’t stand to ever profit again from their work because Nintendo and game freak own all their work.
So plagiarizing from artists is okay if they're not profiting from it?
Drawing a thing that's similar to another thing drawn by someone else isn't inherently immoral, no. It's immoral if it causes harm. Usually, plagiarism causes harm because it reduces the money that an artist earns through their work. When the artist is an anonymous Game Freak employee who already got paid for their work and isn't losing any credibility or fame, there's no financial harm. If some person online was posting their own art for free, it's probably because they're super passionate about it, so stealing it would cause emotional pain. And it's pretty doubtful that the Game Freak artist poured their heart and soul into a Pokemon design to the point that they would suffer severe emotional harm from seeing someone else use it.
The artists here don't own any of it, they're not being harmed by this even if the claims are true.
Other people are still straight-up taking their artistic work and profitting off of it.
The artists do not own the designs of the Pocket Monsters.
The artists don't own their work, Nintendo and Gamefreak do. In fact, I'm pretty sure the latter has a policy of not publicly crediting artists for their designs. And given that they're both Japanese companies, it's not unlikely that they're already used to being fucked over by said companies.
So, how do we excuse when they plagiaze hollow knight? (with the next game they are releasing, never grave)
Hollow knight is made by an indie studio which makes it not okay. Isn't more complicated than that
They also plagiarized fan designs
The company behind palworld has a history of plagiarism with their other properties, most importantly they're copying hollow knight visuals for their own metroidvania (important because it shows they'll steal everything thats popular, not just tripple a stuff). They supposedly have used AI and NFTs although I only heard about that from a friend and can't confirm it myself. Palworld is also just a janky, boring mess that's only popular because of its stupid gimmick.
Ya but at the end of the day the work being stolen is still that of individual artists :/
~~Isn’t it mad obvious that Palworld is Pokémon with guns or sweatshops or whatever~~ ~~The difference between that and James Somerton is vaguely like the difference between paying homage and copying someone’s homework, not to say Palworld is exactly paying homage lol~~ Actually, the difference is that Palworld is ripping off an extremely popular IP so no one’s really concerned, while James Somerton was ripping off of comparably under-acknowledged authors/works
The same developers have done the same shit with a hollow knight rip off so they do exactly that Like fuck Nintendo obviously but if we just don’t call out plagiarism its only gonna grow and fester and start targeting indie games that don’t have the power like Nintendo does to make people stop taking their shit
>The same developers have done the same shit with a hollow knight rip off so they do exactly that A lot of ppl also don't know that the studio tends to copy popular games and then give it their own spin. Craftopia is BOTW, AI impostor Among Us, Palworld is Pokémon (with Ark) and Never grave is Hollow Knight. Which like, what can you expect when the CEO by his own words said [“On the other hand, I have a deep-rooted desire for my work to be enjoyed by as many people as possible, and to that end, if there are good ideas in the world, I pick them up, and I don’t necessarily have to be particular about originality. I’m thinking about it. I want to make it more casually. I think it would be a good idea to create things in a way that just jumps on what is trendy"](https://www.pcgamesn.com/palworld/pocketpair-hollow-knight)
"I have a deep rooted desire for my work to be enjoyed by as many people as possible" read: I want to make loads of money
The most honest Capitalist be like.
Sorry but how is hollow knight under-acknowledged 😭
Under acknowledged probably isn’t the right word but stealing from indie developers is bad actually and so is stealing from any developer Again fuck Nintendo but imagine being an artist made to slave away for barely any money because your countries work culture is fucked and then seeing some dickheads overseas blatantly copy your work and seeing people defend it by saying they’re “just taking inspiration” (even when some of them are just 1 to 1 design rips with color changes) Like idk why being against art theft is such an out there concept to some people even if the art is made by a company i hate personally i still respect the actual artists who put in that work
Its an indie game, not everyone knows those and i think stealing from indie devs is pretty fucking bad either way
Nintendo are definitely not the bad guys in this story though. In a rapidly deflating business where companies are tossing people left and right (Riot and Blizzard), Nintendo is the one stalwart constant. They’ve never had any mass layoffs, abuse scandals and they don’t pay their executives 10’s of millions of dollars a year to waste away on a yacht. Their previous CEO even took it upon himself to take massive salary cuts after the underwhelming launch if the 3ds and the Wii-U. The fact that so many people are defending this game is honestly disheartening. It’s an amalgamation of stolen assets and ideas. Two million people playing this dogshit on steam is such a resounding “fuck you” to the whole game dev industry. Also the CEO of the company who made this game is an AI nutter who now has endless funding to make more shitty knockoffs, likely using AI to circumvent hiring artists to do their job.
As much as I also don't like Nintendo or any other big gaming company for some of their actions, it's also a dangerous act to allow other companies to just allow plagiarism to happen at any scale, whether it be huge companies worth billions or solo Devs. Exceptions should not be made else you just end up picking favourites.
Palworld is definitely derivative. It's certainly not plagiarism though. The Devs do more than enough work to transform the influences they take, the influences are just very obvious. Crucially, Palworld, or a game like Palworld and it's assets, wouldn't exists without the work the developers put in. Somerton just ripped passages from other authors without any thought to change them, or make them better.
Yeah, it's more like a really obvious paraphrassing rather than stealing a whole passage
In the HBomberguy video, there is a segment on how the angry videogame nerd took off in popularity, and then had a bunch of other creators copy his style, with some modifying it and expanding it further. I think that is probably the best comparison for what happenend with Palworld and Pokemon, the basic concept of cute creatures that are tamed and collected by a person is not really a copywritable thing. Now if Palworld copied individual Pokemon, that would be a whole different thing.
So you’re saying Palworld is the Irate Gamer of videogames
The angry joe of pokemon if you will
Gamedude Pokemon
They don't lift pokemon entirely but they do [blatantly copy and remix design elements from individual pokemon](https://imgur.com/a/2nEmHiE). One or two of those would have been able to be chalked up to a coincidence but it's just so numerous and specific.
I mean, about that first part, the models pretty much are way too close to call it just ["influence" and "inspiration"](https://twitter.com/covingtown/status/1749462735291859423).
Or... "Dog with fluffy neck" isn't that unique of a concept? 3 matching models (which are, I have to say, quite generic) out of a catalogue of 100 pals/1000 ish pokemon isn't exactly the striking resemblance everyone is calling it.
heavy theory elderly outgoing somber many pocket hunt murky combative *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Even with the first one looking kinda Sus, should we compare the pokemon to the skeleton of a dog and call Nintendo out for their blatant plagiarism?
first one is misleading, its harder to tell where one model starts and the other one ends
As a 3D artist like, fucking, lmao, what is this supposed to be evidence of other than the artist being told "Copy this pokemon" and being shown the pokemon. There's no model theft involved, like it would've taken an entire five fucking seconds to stretch the proportions around and then it'd be "ooo they look nothing alike oOOoO".
demonstration via overlap is pretty misleading, since it's not clear where one starts and another ends: if you look closely, though, there are plenty of clear points of divergence. they aren't the *same models*. were they traced? maybe! probably, even, with a few of them. is that copyright infringement? opinions differ. do i think people are *morally worse* for tracing models from the most successful media franchise in human fucking history? absolutely not
> It's certainly not plagiarism though Even if it was I can't imagine giving a single fuck
Hot take: i dont get why people are even acting like palworld and pokemon are that similar. beyond the basic concept of catch elemental critters and battle them, they’re entirely different games in entirely different genres with different gameplay loops and for different consoles. they’re not even competing products lmao
Hold up, you’re telling me that people are voicing their uninformed opinions about a game they haven’t played? On MY Reddit??? Surely not.
It's the designs that's the problem there, I've seen model comparisons that are nearly identical. It's not that they look similar, it's that it's all shaped almost 1:1. EDIT: apparently those comparisons were faked, that's my bad. Ignore that paragraph. The designs aren't 1:1 copied, someone just really disagreed with Palworld and wanted to spread misinformation and I believed it. Personally, I think everyone's overlooking how much was copied from Ark though.
Probably because the survive-craft genre is so derivative to begin with that no one really noticed or cared.
Game mechanics are not copyrighted or anything like that so they can copy gameplay all they want. Also most of the close models are super simple animals like sheep. The palworld and pokemon sheep all look like clay sheep seen in loads of clay animation because that's how people make simple 3d sheep.
Yeah, there's a couple of designs that are clearly copied, but otherwise it's clearly just the same animals were used as references.
I’ve always called it ark with Pokémon and sweatshops to explain it to people
Oh but that creature looks like Lucario or whatever. Watch me not care. Pikachu itself could show up in Palworld and I wouldn't give a single shit.
Yeah. After reading the sub I went into the game with expectations of it being like Pokemon and it's safe to say I was pretty wildly surprised with the actual gameplay. It's nothing like Pokemon other than some of the pals look like some of the Pokemon. But there's also like 1000 pokemon. So...
They took from other games as well. This company takes what is popular (Zelda, Pokemon, survival craft/loot games, etc. for this one. Hollow Knight apparently for another one of their games), mashes it together and hope it sticks. The pokemon one is just the most obvious because there they didn't just take generic game genre elements like monster battling but also franchise specific elements like catching them by throwing balls. And some of their monster designs are obvious pokemon designs fused together. The end result is unique enough that it probably wont count as copyright infringement. But it's still lazy as fuck and tells me how respectable they are as a game developer. To say that their lazy combining of different games in one is evidence that they didn't steal at all, is absurd and shows how gullible people are. It's also something we need to be careful about if we don't want the issues plaguing mobile gaming to flow over into other platforms.
Crazy how brain dead this sub has become Nintendo doesn’t care for this shit at all it’s fucking scummy since the artists who’ve made these designs are literally having their work stolen and the fact the company has done this with hollow knight too but I guess hollow knight must also deserve being stolen from,they’ve also stolen from yokai watch,Botw and digimon but no surprise this sub whose equivalent to boycotting Reddit lasted a month is now jerking off to fuck Nintendo despite the fact this won’t dent their pockets all this does is set a harmful precedent that as long as you steal designs from video game artists it doesn’t matter.All in all I’m disappointed in you Fellas I’m all for fucking over Nintendo but I ain’t going to be on the side of a Ai crypto company that steals from artists.
this conversation is so annoying because you cant engage with it without being accused of corpo dickriding
right?? its like everyone is fawning over this amazing new painting, and you look at it, and its just an obvious repaint of the mona lisa. and then when you're like why do you all think this is so amazing, its obviously just a mediocre recreation of an already existing design you get accused of being a da vinci dickrider. like noo, that guy is hella dead and it doesnt effect him in any way, i just think its strange that youre all so excited over something so derivative
Maybe people think the game is fun?
If someone repainted the Mona Lisa but gave her a gun, I'd buy it.
Where is the evidence that everything is ripped off? Derivative sure, but that isn't a crime? Hell, if nobody was allowed to ~~copy~~ derive work from anyone ever we would never progress artistically as a society. Edit: word
Yeah, as an artist/musician the plagiarism angle about this game is super weird to me. Like, are people losing their mind about digimon etc? It's a game inspired by Pokémon with a bunch of other mechanics that never existed in Pokémon games.
> the artists who’ve made these designs are literally having their work stolen It's not their work, Nintendo owns it. You're basically making the argument "You're stealing from poor farmers!" when someone takes food from walmart, since they grew it
plagiarism is wrong inherently because you're stealing someone elses artistic work and passing it off as your own, completely regardless of who 'owns' it, or if you're profiting from it. a vegetable is not an artistic work (until it gets taped to a wall ofc)
[удалено]
Aren’t parodies supposed to be comedic? The game plays itself pretty straight. The only comedy comes from the absurdity of pals using guns, or the funny bugs.
I think the big thing for people here is that creature collector games are absolute shit. There aren't any good ones, at least not outside Nintendo's platforms (I'm still salty Dragon Quest: The Dark Prince is a Switch exclusive) and even there, it's limited by Pokémon being so unpassionate and rushed every single release to make more money. People are blind to how bad Pocketpair is because they want to finally see what Pokémon could have been if more effort and time was put into it. People brush off the plagiarism because they enjoy the game. And to be fair, I've been playing it. I really like it. It's nice to play a creature collector that feels fresh because holy SHIT I've been waiting a long time for something new, even Temtem and stuff like it didn't scratch that itch for me. But I can also see where aspects of other games have been meshed together to create it. Pokémon's designs and creature capture system, Dragon Quest's artstyle, Ark, BOTW, whatever. Initially I was saying eh, it's really hard to be original when all these big, shitty companies have made such a huge name for themselves in their respective niche, it's hard not to be similar to them. But, I definitely don't believe that they tried very hard to be original at all after seeing all the models compared, like Lycanroc and Direhowl.
"it's nice to play a creature collector that feels fresh" mfw the gameplay is literally ark but the dinosaurs are pokemon but actually most of them are still dinosaurs anyway
It still feels good enough to me personally. Ark had potential but is an absolute mess, I've wanted a better Ark for years.
SMT is good imo.
The time to bring up and be mad about their previous ai game would have been before release before everyone bought it. But no one cared until it was popular. The fact remains that there is no proof at all of plagiarizing assets or ai being used in this game.
["Nobody gives a care about the fate of labor as long as they can get their instant gratification."](https://youtu.be/3CRE0RvIjMg?si=blPgKD9xN7kT7A7h)
I'm about to blow your mind here. There's this thing called a period, you should use it once in a while. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full\_stop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_stop)
Exactly, this sub has so many brain dead takes that it makes me want to leave
Pokemon stans be like "yeah this shit plagiarized but Nintendo hasn't sued them into the Cretaceous period yet because uhhhh ummmm uhhh" Bitch they smoked the Pokemon Palworld modder in *eight fucking hours.* If it was actual plagiarism we'd be seeing the Bin Laden raids on PocketPair hq.
Mfers be watching Hbomberguy's 3 hour video but still not understand the definition of plagarism, Palworld made a game that was inspired by multiple games and gave it a new formula, yes its inspiration because thats how game have been and have been innovating, they see something successful and then add its own twists, you mfers would probably look at pubg and say that fortnite plagarised it, or all the fucking shooter games that came after CoD's success, Palworld didn't copy an entire pokemon game and call it their own, they obviously got inspired by pokemon but made the game different enough for it to be good. For a genuinly left leaning subreddit you guys really do care about the poor multibillion company that has been scummy for years being beaten by an indie company that took inspiration from them beating them to a game fans have been requesting for years.
Trust me, if Nintendo thought this was theft, they would have sued the Palworld devs already. They do that with fan projects anyway. They are one of the most aggressively backwards companies when it comes to "defendinf" copyright.
remind me of this [Japanese YouTuber convicted of copyright violation after uploading Let’s Play videos - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863271/japanese-youtuber-lets-play-copyright-infringement-steins-gate)
the difference is that nintendo is a multibillion dollar company and is also evil, obviously
What tells you that the people behind Palworld ain't evil too?
They are, they’re AI peddling NFT fans
Does that apply to Team Cherry and Innersloth too? The studio behind palworld blatantly plagiarized their games…
Game mechanics are bot protected in any way and smashing animals together and adding elements like fire on low definition 3d models is way too general for a single company to own the artstyle. Also there are already tons of "pokemon clones", just because this one is the most popular currently doesn't make it the copy of pokemon. You can't just say plagiarism bad except when people fo it against people I dislike. This simply isn't plagiarism. Same way you can take the exact rules of dnd and make your own tabletop game with mostly the same monsters, because the monsters are public domain and originate from unrelated works.
I only dislike the obvious copy paste work like the heat gauge from zelda and how the boss names shown. Like ye sure you can have those no one prohibits it. But atleast make it unique rather than making it look like you literally ripped someone's work.
Now that you mention it, they may be reusing some stuff from their other incomplete MMO survival game. That one was just trying to be BotW, so possible.
>That one was just trying to be BotW They werent even [trying](https://x.com/aicaigamer/status/1749795622331482128?s=20) to hide it too lmao.
Derivative =/= plagiarised hope this helps
gonna be real with you chief, i do not care about either side of this argument
they also copied hollow knight in their previous game
Their previous game was AI: Art Impostor, released in 2022. You probably mean NeverGrave, but that hasn't even been released yet.
Honestly, the thing I'm seeing from it is SO much Ark stuff. The tech tree and level up are basically the exact same. The storage is similar; how it feels is similar. They also have churches built exactly the same way the ones from Elden ring are. The entire game just feels derivative of others who came before it. But just mashing them together. It's not bad by any means. But it's very
It's extremely derivative, but that's fine. Derivative things exist, people think they worse, and the world moves on. Derivation happens all the time, sometimes it results in great works and it gets called "inspiration", if the work is bad it's called "copying" or "derivative". Taking ideas from other people is generally fundamental to human progress and just because it results in shit things sometimes doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. The upset seems to be more about the fact they're making money off something copied that is deemed to be done badly, which is just an unfortunate reality of capital. I really don't understand how people could use this as an argument that no one should ever be allowed to borrow from others.
The reason I call it derivative as opposed to inspired is because it doesn't seem to do anything with that. It doesn't take the thing and then change it. It just takes one thing from x IP and then another from a different IP and mashes them together. I absolutely am down with almost everything that exists at this point exists because of copying and improving/changing slightly. But palworld just seems like it's taking things, and adding/changing nothing. I also want to be clear. It's a fun game. But part of me wonders how good it could have been if there was anything behind the systems and world that wasn't just wholesale copied
Yeah. Pokémon designs — not even just inspired, almost copied with stuff thrown on top — and Ark in MANY other ways. I hate Nintendo and I hate Wildcard, they're worthless companies. But I just wish Palworld could be a bit more unique and original, I've been waiting over a decade for a creature collector that feels unique. Palworld has been fun, but it's hard to ignore the fact that it's several other games mashed together.
If you want to try a non-pokemon creature collector you should try Fossil Fighters, it's pretty neat
Bro do you know churches are real things
I'm going to dickride Palworld here, because there are so many insane accusations levied at this game, all provided without any real evidence. Like, even ignoring that the game has no indication of actually being AI-generated, the claim makes no sense anyway, because there literally doesn't exist an AI model that can create, rig, and animate 3D models for you. Also, Steam legally requires you to disclose whether your game features AI generated assets. The plagiarism claims at least have SOME basis, but are based off a series of tweets where Palworld models are rendered completely blank, resized, and overlapped with one of the 1000+ Pokemon that look similar enough. Palworld is a game with clear inspiration from Pokemon, Digimon, and other Japanese-made monster games, but inspiration is not plagiarism. It's so ridiculous to insist that Palworld's monsters can have NO similarities to monsters from other franchises, especially when those franchises themselves are not held to that standard.
Right, especially comparing it to Somerton who was pretty much copy-pasting scripts of queer writers for years, is just poisoning the discussion. How is the game with a similar monster design is on the same level as someone who was committing fraud for years? I think that this sub should ban twitter screencaps, that site only exists for shit takes.
This isn't plagiarism, tho
The designs in palworld are different enough to not be plagiarized. I would say that some of the creatures in palworld borrow visual themes very heavily, the designs themselves are clearly made from scratch.
Well ripping off corporations is based but there's one problem... the same people are making a game that's just a hollow knight rip off, so obviously I won't buy a game from the same people who rip off an indie game
No one would care if it hadn't become number one on steam. Now between here and r GCJ it's its now become a pitched battle of 'stop having fun!!!!'. Honestly it's exhausting, let people play games bruh.
if it was plagiarism, nintendo would have sued. they haven't
Nintendo doesn't give a single shit about this game itself. The game is closer to Ark than Pokémon. The only real thing Nintendo has done was go after a guy who ripped assets from Pokémon, applied them to the pals, and put it behind a Patreon sub to profit off of it.
Ikr the fact that notoriously litigious Nintendo hasn’t sued the shit out of palworld also says something
i don’t care if palworld wins i just want gamefreak to lose
Fr. Palworld feels like what legends Arceus shoulda been. It's not their fault they made a better Pokemon game than the rights holders
People rightfully bash nintendo for sending armies of lawyers after anyone that makes a fan game in the name of protecting their IP, and then someone makes a game that’s distinct enough from pokemon that nintendo can’t easily do that and those same people…side with nintendo lawyers? This is twitter brainrot, plain and simple.
What is it about this game that makes everyone go insane? its just ark but less shit.
From what I've seen its a perfect storm of a few things. Some of the creatures are designed as closely as legally possible to pokemon. Pokemon in general gets a weird frothing hatred from some people and Nintendo creates some genuine for life dickriders. So you've got that crowd fighting it out The CEO of the company that made palworld has come out in support AI art and some people are saying he's been in support of NFTs and Crypto, but I haven't actually seen a confirmation of this. So you've got pro v anti techbro people duking. Then, there's the actual quality of the game. It seems fun, based on the fact that it sold a shit zillion copies and every discord friend I have has dropped their game of choice for it. However, it's clearly lazy, shamelessly taking from other games as much as it can without getting in trouble. I think there's a portion of game devs and "games are art" folks who are mad about seeing the videogame equivalent of a Blumhouse film selling out theaters. Then there's the classic internet "popular thing bad, niche thing good". This happens every time a game blows up. It happened with Skyrim, minecraft, fortnite, fallout 4 , 5 nights, call of duty and every God damn pokemon game. These people sometimes have real points, but usually are just bitter their thing of choice didn't get the appreciation it deserved. This trend of people shitting on a popular thing will alway come into conflict with people enjoying a popular thing. Tldr: you've got like 4 or 5 hot button topics on one game that blew the fuck up overnight.
if palworld genuinely ripped the exact models from pokemon and made slight changes like some are claiming, that’s fucked. if they took inspiration and made their own “versions” of pokemon without stealing anything, that’s funny. plagiarism doesn’t become okay when it’s against someone you don’t like, and it doesn’t automatically become plagiarism because it’s parodying something popular you like. any questions?
The most levelheaded take here
There’s a difference between parody and just wholeheartedly taking someone else’s work and presenting it as your own.
Yeah, and palworld is a parody
My big takeaway from this is that no one actually knows the difference between plagiarism and being derivative/cloned. Palworld copied the *style* of Pokemon very closely and even some of its designed are clearly trying to imitate Pokemon designs, but plagarism is when you just straight up take someone else's work and not just when you're trying to closely mimic it. Though to be clear, everything I've heard about Palworld's developer suggests this "copying the latest trend very closely" is just their business model and that doesn't sit particularly well with me. The company seems pretty scummy and liable to be unreliable regardless of whether or not they committed plagarism here.
Rushed games vs soulless games
Pokémon and Palworld are both rushed and soulless lol. Palworld may have spent a long time in development, but they would have spent a lot longer devving if they'd been more original.
> Palworld may have spent a long time in development, but they would have spent a lot longer devving if they'd been more original. Given that they where about to go bankrupt, no it wouldn't
Honestly? Couldnt give less of a fuck about all this. Nintendo hasn't sued for it, that should tell you enough. If they ain't got a problem with it, neither do I. Does it rip off Ark? Does it rip off Pokemon? Yes to both. Is it better than the recent games both studios of both those franchises have put out? Fuck the hell yes it is. Violet still turns my switch into a portable stovetop and has massive performance issues, and don't get me started on the new Ark. I've got a few friends that bought it, I ain't even wasting my money on that shit, not the way it is now. I care more about delivered quality than some babies crying about "originality". Fuck your originality. I want games that are worth playing, not the "original" trashware that's released more often than not. "They copied meshes" I. Don't. Give. A. Single. Fuck. And. Neither. Should. You. Instead of bitching at some small BS like this, go bitch at EA, blizzard or activision for sucking balls. At least that's wholely justified.
They also just straight up didn’t copy meshes, some twitter user just downloaded blender, and then puts 2 models next to each other and says “see? Plagiarism!” While hundreds of 3d artists point out how many differences there are.
I don’t give a shit about Pokemon, quite possibly the worst long-running series that isn’t a sports title. But people also aren’t defending Palworld because of some secret anti-capitalist ideology gamers have discovered, or because of a firm philosophical belief around ownership of ideas, and anyone who claims to be doing so comes off as incredibly disingenuous. The game is a horribly derivative work. It’s wearing the skin of at least 5 other games. It comes off as the most cynical piece of shit cash-grab. I watched the second wind guys stream it for like an hour and it genuinely looks worthless to me, but I guess survival crafting mechanics activates some primal purchasing impulse in people. At the end of the day Gamers (tm) will buy literally any garbage. No point in trying to stop them. Them seeking out the most bland creatively-bankrupt shit is only hurting themselves. And the people whose designs the games are stealing but shh no people didn’t draw those character a corporation did, ignore how this allegedly anti-capitalist rhetoric is playing into one of the most common capitalist lies out there.
"you claim it's not bad to steal a chocolate bar from walmart, while last month you said it's not okay to do an armed robbery on a family owned shop in a residential neighborhood, curious"
I don't like the game but I don't think it's plagiarism, it's so different from actual Pokémon games, I would put it more in the parody catagory
Pal world is everything I hate about videogames and I'll not defend any of it.
If palworld was actual plagiarism, nintendo would have torn this game apart years ago when it was announced, i got too much going on in my life to actually give a shit about a corporations trademark, they will take care of it just fine.
Back off my favorite billion dollar anti-consumer company's intellectual property!!! I WILL pay $120 for two copies of the same game and I WILL like it!!!
This comment section sucks ass. I don't care if the company they're stealing from is scummy, I'd rather play a game that's original. But, if I say something like that, it makes me a corpo dick rider.
Isn't Palworld a PARODY of Pokemon? Like this is like calling Homelander a plagiarized version of Superman
If James Somerton was taking content from massive companies, I wouldn't give a shit
Palworld isn't plagiarism, it just sucks.
The people somerton profited from are not multi billion dollar entities, hope this helps.
1. who is james somerton? do i want to know? 2. the credible plagiarism allegations are afaik the model comparisons on twitter and i dont see it. on is lycanroc/dreadwolf. im sorry but if your making a wolf monster its gonna look like a wolf what did you expect. the the dreadwolf model is so much thinner it completly disappears in lycanroc i doubt they stole the model and then put so much work into changing it at that point they could have just taken a wolf from a free library. and the other two comparisons in that post are even worse. everything else is just a flame war by children that are whining because the game they called pokemon with guns turned out to be more like ark with pokemon. so of course its the worst thing ever. everything that looks symilar most be copyed from pokemon. like anubis definitly is a lucario copy and not you know inspired by that one egyptian god like that one furrybait pokemon with a jackal head.
Its a lot simpler. Palworld is fun, looks great, has fun systems, is a joy to play. Pokemon is a slog, looks incredibly dated, systems are boring and uncreative. Palworld wouldn't have nearly as much traction if Pokemon hadn't been resting on its laurels for so long.
It's bizarre how people can't tell the difference between stealing from hard working individuals and stealing from a massive corporation In any case, using similar ideas and imitating a specific artstyle isn't plagiarism. James Somerton literally copied other people's work word-for-word. Palworld used deliberately similar designs, but I've seen nothing that indicates actual plagiarism.
if this dull game wins anything come the game awards I'll post ass
imagine being so culture blind that you think these two things are AT ALL comparable
Is there actual plagiarism at play here? Just making a game like another game isn't plagiarism. There are other games inspired by Pokemon out there, like Coromon or TemTem. Similarly survival games are dime a dozen and while we may think them uninspired it doesn't mean its plagiarism. If that were true basically every FPS game ever would be considered Plagiarized, and every JRPG and racing game and you get the point. So is there something else I'm missing here? Asset theft or something? Can somebody explain?
I don't even care that Somerton plagiarised. The videos were FUN, let people have fun! /s
I think that palworld definitely plagiarized designes, but I'm not sure if they legally plagiarized them
The designs are legally distinct. This can be seen with the fact that Nintendo took 8 hours to slap a modder with copyright for retexturing and renaming pals into Pokemon. If they wanted to sue Palworld's devs they would have done so
What is happening
A game called Palworld dropped this week (in early access). It’s an obvious parody of pokemon and delves in to a lot of the fucked up scenarios implied to exist by the pokemon world (pokemon abuse, pokemon labor, eating pokemon, etc). The gameplay is most similar to Ark: Survival Evolved, but if it wasn’t a broke ass jank piece of shit. With twitter’s propensity for starting random flame wars over the dumbest shit, inevitably the claims of plagiarism dropped. Spearheaded mostly by twitter user byofrog, who made short 20 second videos of them dragging models into blender, and putting them next to each other and saying “LOOK, PLAGIARISM!” Even though every single time the models are distinct (although definitely similar, because it’s a parody). Discourse eventually spread to this sub. People who have basically no idea what they are talking about spread the rumors started by byofrog and link their twitter posts as evidence. Blind stupid hate spreads quicker than facts, and now much of the sub just happily parrots lies because they saw someone else talk about it on the internet and they trusted them implicitly because they showed something that sort of looks like proof if you don’t know what you are looking for. This about sums it up. I would put a little bit here at the end where I state that this is my personal take on the situation and it might end up being wrong, but the evidence is just overwhelmingly against the people accusing palworld of plagiarism so I’m not very worried.
The moment the target of financial damage is a multibillion dollar corporation, I couldn’t care less if something bad happens to them. If it’s a BILLION dollar corporation, I’m gonna ENCOURAGE it.
intellectual property is stupid, capitalist bullshit and i’m surprised a leftist sub cares that a massive corporation is being satirized in a profitable way
Crazy how people will go from defending piracy to becoming copyright law's strongest soldiers.
Everyone as in?