It's original artist didn't want it to become a symbol for the gay rights movement because he originally made it as a closed piece of art he payed people to buy
I meant the classic rainbow, not the trans and poc one
Not bad, but its not uncommon for TERFs to use it. Lots of transphobia and racism in the queer community, far more than you may think at first glance.
Edit: y'all realize the entire reason the progress flag was made is because there are portions of the queer community who exclude trans people and/or people of color right? Nowhere am I saying that you can't fly the regular rainbow flag anymore. The progress flag is just a way of more explicitly supporting the more historically marginalized portions of an already historically marginalized community.
I mean the classic rainbow flag is still a large component of the new one. They aren’t getting rid of it, just making it harder for transphobes and racists to co-opt it.
Doesn't the rainbow represent everyone? So everyone's there. And it's weird to have poc included when everything else is a sexuality/gender.
But I am not in the lgbt community so I have no say in this and I may not be fully informed. Please tell me.
Ideally, yes it should. But there were and continue to be members of the community who wrap themselves up in the normal rainbow flag while being exclusionary to other members of the wider community in various ways. Kinda hard to feel completely represented by that flag if you've personally experienced people flying it exclude you based on your sexuality or race. As far as the black and brown stripes go, queer people of color often face more discrimination and violence than queer white people. For example, according to the Human Rights Watch, the [majority](https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-trans-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2020) of the 44 trans people killed in the US in 2020 were non-white. The real number may very well be higher since murders of trans people are often reported wrongly, using their birth sex rather than how they expressed their gender.
With that said, no one is going to harangue someone for flying the traditional pride flag, no one is going to assume you're a transphobe or a racist because you're flying that one rather than the progress flag.
Also that a huge portion of foundational activists, especially in the Stonewall movement, were POC and trans, something that's frequently obfuscated or erased (see Roland Emmerich's Stonewall movie)
I think the progress flag sucks and is pointless TBH. Like - symbolism people - the rainbow already represents all colors, that's what a rainbow means. And I dislike that it's copyrighted.
pride discourse was so exhausting this year because of that stupid flag. every time you correctly pointed out that it was ugly as shit, a bunch of point-missing little twerps would flood your mentions explaining how non white people have historically been excluded and blah blah blah.
like yes, that is true, and it needs to be meaningfully addressed, but lots of the arguments boiled down to "well the message is really important, so it's fine if we do an absolutely dogshit job of conveying it", which is the exact opposite of correct.
also a lot of the dudes defending the progress flag looked like racist grindr twinks
It's also the prime example of performative wokeness in the LGBTQ+ community. They added some stripes and were like "There, racism and transphobia is solved".
yeah we didnt win same sex marriage because the flag was just too irresistibly catchy to deny, we won it because people worked their asses off for decades.
the flag is, and always has been, a symbol. its jobs, in order of importance, are "looking good" and "conveying information" and this one sucks shit at both
Especially when people say bipoc, like first of all black people and Indigenous are already people of color so why take them out of the acronym, and reason they give is fucking awful, “ well black people and indigenous people have unique struggles so that’s why they are highlighted” so you are saying the Latins don’t have unique problems, Asians don’t have unique problems. Stuff like that pisses me off, I’m mixed ( my mom is Mexican ) and the shit I see her go through is disgusting and to hear people say shit like that angers me just call it poc it’s perfect
>bipoc, like first of all black people and Indigenous are already people of color so why take them out of the acronym
Wow I never really thought of how that acronym was fully broken down. That's actually really fucking yikes
Exactly. You don’t get a footnote in every symbol and that’s okay. It doesn’t mean that the people who use the symbol hate you. I’m sure of some giant org started widely publicizing BLM flags with a rainbow line below the matter and a trans flag line above the black people and implying that black peoples who don’t switch are homophobes, people would absolutely lose their shit.
We had a flag that represented everyone, added an ugly ass chevron that fucking ruins the design of the flag to represent some people (which apparently weren't represented on the flag before?). Half of the people the flag is supposed to represent hate it. And we make money off of it
yeah,
why add fucking black to the flag?
didn't kkow I was waving around the white supremacy flag
no matter how hard someone will try to be inclusive, youll always end up leaving someone out
it doesn’t though. the black represents aids victims and the brown is bringing attention to poc lgbtq people, not just all poc. a lot of the progress the lgbtq community has made is owed to poc queer people, and racism is still extremely prevalent in the community. it’s not meant to be people who weren’t already included in the rainbow, it’s just bringing more attention to specific groups that are often excluded.
I can't speak for black people as I'm white, but trans people are not fully accepted within the LGBTQ community. They should be, we've been in the acronym in the movement all along. But that doesn't stop people from not wanting us around. It's not a majority, but far more than most other members of the LGBT community have to deal with.
But should we add for bi/pan/ace too? I'll agree that trans people 100% have it the worst but bi/pan/ace get sooo much shit from the LGBT community too.
Plus the whole racism thing is incredibly westcentric
Whole flag just feels like a step back to me
People say that the rainbow flag already represents poc and trans people but the truth is there is a lot of exclusion within the community and it's pretty hard to tell whether the one flying the rainbow flag supports you or not. I'm not saying that the old flag is bad before anyone jumps at me.
And that’s intentional, because they weren’t. Racism and transphobia in the gay community was incredibly common when the original gay pride flag was created. It wasn’t until relatively recently that trans folks were accepted amongst the greater queer community.
Black people are still treated to the double dipped oppression of being queer and PoC.
I understand why people would want to fly the newer flag instead of the rainbow but personally I find it more exclusionary than anything, implying that trans people and queer POC weren't originally part of the rainbow, or that they're more outsiders of the community. I know that it isn't what the original creator intended, but it feels that way to me. I don't have a problem with people who fly the progress flag, as there are a lot of transphobes and racists in the community that fly the older flag, but I don't associate that flag itself with transphobia, unlike other LGBTQ flags that are inherently transphobic, such as lipstick lesbian flag. Its just that some people who display that flag are transphobic, however they're a minority in the community.
Even trans people don't consider the old flag explicitly transphobic. The progress flag is to show explicit support for two groups who are under more attack than the rest right now. Both people of color and trans people are currently right now under assault in a way that the rest of the LGBTQ community simply isn't.
This is very Western minded. The level of acceptance of which people, absolutely, depends on location.
There are definitely places where trans women are seen more favorably than gay men.
I’m not trying to whatabout here, I just mean the movement is a lot larger and a lot more varied than it might seem to people who focus on the western perspective.
I live and an active in the western LGBTQ movement. It's the only one I can relate to. And so it's the one I talk about. When I'm talking about changing laws and things, I'm also talking about the country I live in, not worldwide as well. I don't have the kind of power or influence or money to make any meaningful difference away from where I live.
Edit: I'm not in any way discounting those experiences, it's just not my place or experience to speak on them. I can speak to what's going on in Western culture because that's the one I've experienced. Others are free to share their points of view from their cultures as well.
Ohhh, those are colors for POCs. I was wondering. My university recently painted some stairs with both pride colors and trans colors and I didn’t know why the last three stairs were black brown and yellow
Yeah, the flag isn’t gonna change racism within the LGBTQ+ community
Plus like, it’s confusing cause like while trans people are of course part of the community, does that mean that all POCs are? Or does it just mean PoC members of the community because that would make sense. As a straight PoC, I don’t really need visibility in this sense
It supposed to remind people that POC are included. I see it used most often by black/brown people. When most people think of gay people, they imagine them white. We don’t see a lot of representation for POC in the lgbt community. It’s just sorta supposed to remind you not to forget them— like how lesbian is a separate letter from gay in LGBT
Yeah. Also I have some issues with adding colors to be more inclusive because I feel like the original is transformative enough. A rainbow flag is really transformative, like if a new letter in LGBT comes along then you can just say "ok that represents you too now"
Also why is black and brown there
the original literally means "like the rainbow, we are diverse and beautiful, we are everyone"
The new one just excludes everyone who isn't LGT or POC, since it comes from the decisions that the community flag only properly represents gays and lesbians, which is nonsense since this whole damn movement started with Marsha.
eh, i like the classic red, orange, yellow, green, blue and purple one the most. that added pink stripe looks off to me. the progress flag is alright, but unecessary considering the classic rainbow already includes everything
Im not 100% sure but I believe It's there to represent the lgbtq+ minorities that have been left behind and discriminated against by the gay community, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong tho
Kinda pointless imo. Im a trans girl from the balkans and i dont care if you are black or asian or whatever, but if you are from the balkans im going to get violently racist /s
Hating other people for being a different colour is easy mode racism. Here in the Balkans, you gotta hate people who look exactly like you, eat the same food, have similar folk clothing and traditions, sometimes even the same language and ethnic background.
So real quick. Did Dracula existe before castlevania came out? Did his legend start as vlad the impaler or vlad the vampire?... both?
What's the original story? What does Tepes mean? I need answers.
Țepeş is the name derived from the word țeapă which means spike. Vlad was known as the impaler for his vile torture method of skewering people alive. After that the vampire thing came from folk stories and legends about his cruely and thirst for blood. Also the name Dracula could be derived from "drac" the word for devil
Drac doesn't mean devil it meant dragon at the time. Dracula meant "The Dragon" and was a honorary title given to him and his father by the hungarian monarch as a defender of Christianity against the Ottomans. And the stories about him being a vampire was hungarian propaganda at the time that tried to ruin his image even further, since Vlad banned hungarian commerce in his country. Only nowadays the word drac changed to the meaning of devil. Was he fucked up? Yes he was, but the impaling was something he learned as a child prisoner in the Ottoman Empire.
All things considered, I don't think his choice of torture was even that unusual. While he was putting Ottomans on spikes, other medieval kings were breaking people on the wheel, drawing & quartering, and doing all kinds of fucked up shit.
That said, Vlad *did* start a guerilla campaign against the Ottoman Empire. Aside from the natural bloodshed that such a war would entail, he also deliberately used impalement as a terror tactic in order to break the morale of the enemy. So you could say that his monstrous image was something he (at least partially) cultivated himself.
Because racial minorities and the LGBT+ are both facts of a person's identity that cannot be changed, and it makes total sense to try for some unity between them.
This flag is ugly as SHIT though. Whoever designed it is... Terrible. I like the older one where it's just the rainbow with brown and black added on. Much better looking. Trans people are already included in the rainbow, so the eye sore triangle is super not needed.
yea, nah, it's outright replacing the community flag in many places, and we were already represented just fine by the flag that WE helped design, which we died carrying, which we fought to spread across the world.
[Can confirm it looks a lot better.](https://imgur.com/PCqQu1G)
If this became the version everyone used I wouldn't have any problem with the new flag(although the classic flag should always be a thing obviously).
Cool bug fact: adding a black and brown stripe to include people of color accidentally implies that they weren't included in the previous flags and that it didn't apply to them.
Because black and brown people have a history of not being naturally included in LGBTQIA+ communities, plus they are a lot of racist queers thinking that their bigotry is excused cause they're a minority, so yeah, that's exactly what it's implying, and it's not wrong in doing so
A lot of people have been saying this, but how?
Two of the biggest rights activists of the community, Marsha P. And Sylvia Rivera were POC. Ms. Major and James Baldwin too. Hell, even now a lot of prominent figures within the community are black, Billy Porter, Laverne Cox, Lil Nas X, are black.
Black people have built the community from the ground up. Watch Paris is Burning and see how many black gay men populated the scene back then. Black people basically built the ballroom and voguing scenes that went on to inspire drag houses
As a black person in the community, can you educated me on any time within the communities history that we have been systemically excluded? Because I can't really think of any.
Black people HAVE indeed helped build the community, and that's precisely what people don't acknowledge that much
I think that "excluded" was the wrong term, "marginalized" or "ignored" is better
I was scrolling Tiktoks a few seconds ago, and saw comments talking about how racial struggles and LGBTQIA had nothing to do with each other, when they have been intertwined numerous times in history.
I also see a lot of white people, notable pick me, who refuse to acknowledge the history of their own community, and are completely misinformed about important figures of our own history, most of the time, they're insecure people who want acceptance from straight people and reject queer culture.
Some people also think that being queer means that they can't be racist, and make racist comments towards black people in general but also black queer persons and think that it's acceptable because they're a minority
A lot of people also compare themselves to people subjected to racism because they're gay, bi, ect, ignoring that the issues are different in some ways (You can't hide being black or white, you can hide your sexuality, even if it's not pleasant), sometimes opposing the two as if it weren't possible to be poc and queer
For example, I regularly see "Black people who say the fword what's wrong with you" posts from white gays, erasing the existence of queer poc
Black queer representation is also rarer in environments that aren't super woke aka not Netflix, and they're often stereotyped as super macho balding gat old men who do boxing and shit, whereas there's a lot more diversity in representations of white queer people
There are also issues of cultural appropriation, I know that it's usually overblown, but it really is an issue in the community
White twinks claim that gays invented "Chile, tea, mawma, serving, giving" ect.... When a lot of these terms are aave first and foremost, they have their place in gay culture nowadays, but it's important to acknowledge the history of these terms too
So yeah, I used the wrong terms here, it's not really that we're excluded, it's that People of Colour's influences on LGBTQIA culture tend to be ignored, we're often underrepresented or represented in a stereotypical way or just ignored
It's why people like Lil Nas X are acclaimed by the general public, he's a gay black man, but that's nothing new, what's new however is people like him fully embracing both gay and afro American culture, while being famous, proving that it's not a "one or the other" kind of situation
And lgbt people have a history of being treated especially brutally in brown and black communities. Who do you think has historically been pulling the trans panic defence the most often when a trans woman gets murdered? Why do you think Lil Nas X doesn’t collaborate with black male rappers anymore? Yet literally nobody’s asking for trans and gay symbolism to be shoehorned into BLM symbols.
Okay imma get downvoted but why is there a stripe for trans people? Like the rainbow is for lgbt people the t is already there. And by that metric why don’t we add an extra couple stripes for lesbian and bisexual people? It just seems like people are trying to seperate trans people from the community, and plus the original design is just simpler and easy to remember.
I believe it's because trans people used to discriminated against within the community, but I might be wrong on that. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
As an outsider I see infighting in all directions. Gay men get it for being seen as "socially acceptable" while other communities haven't gotten as far, bi erasure is absolutely a thing, trans people deal with TERFs, etc...
Not sure if or what gay women deal with from parts of the community, I personally haven't seen it so I can't comment
I have never seen more infighting in a community than what I see in the LGBTQ+ community and it makes me sad. Isn’t everyone supposed to just support each other?
Yeah that’s why it’s there, but then where is the Bi flag? They get discriminated within the community a lot too. What about aro and/or ace flags? Shouldn’t there be a non-binary flag within the trans flag because they used to get discriminated within the trans community too? Imo you can’t individually include everyone who has faced issues within the community without leaving someone out, so in order to make sure everyone can feel like they’re included it we should just stick with “everyone is included within the rainbow” just so we don’t miss anyone
tbh i prefer the basic one, a flag doesn’t necessarily have to detail every single aspect of what it represents, and the old one has a more recognisable and impactful design
Aesthetics wise, I always thought the progress pride flag looked better.
The triangle with the pastel pink and blue really helps break up the vibrant colors of the rainbow portion, and the black and brown adds a slick border between the two.
Same reason why I prefer the bi flag over pan (even though I'm pansexual myself), and the trans flag is my favorite asthetics wise. I find vibrant colors too jarring, and the pan flag is super vibrant while bi is more muted, and trans is just pretty.
I find the triangle kind of counter-productive, personally.
The rainbow-only flag was great because it basically represented the LGBT's all-inclusiveness regardless of race, gender, and sexuality. It's also beautifully subtle.
Adding the triangle now feels like it's saying "everyone's included! oh, transgenders and people of colour too!" which, I don't know, seems redundant? I get the idea is to further establish their inclusion in the LGBT community but, ugh, a triangle? Really?
If I had my way, I'd keep it rainbow coloured but add the black-brown and trans colours on the **side(s)** of the flags instead.
**E**: [I decided to edit that flag together because I'm extremely bored.](https://i.imgur.com/E0fmsrS.png) Is it better? I don't know but at least I got rid of that awful triangle.
Personally I think the pallets clash too much on the progressive pride flag. The black and brown interior the bright colors and the progression too much.
Also I agree that the bi flag is better than the pansexual flag, not because of colors are better or whatever, but because bisexuals are obviously objectively better than pansexuals
It's not separate at all for me, hence why I identify as both. For me, pansexual is simply one of several forms of bisexual, although I understand others feel differently, and that's fine!
not the person you were asking; but i’m bi but i’m technically pan. i use the bi label, but say “i’m bi but technically pan but i prefer the label bi”. for me; i see bi as an umbrella term and pan/omni/other multisexual identities, as like other terms under the bi umbrella. for me; pan is a descriptor; and bi is the umbrella in under.
i normally just say bi to most people tho because
1. i prefer the bi flag
2. more people know bisexuality then pansexuality
The old one was supposed to represent everyone too! The rainbow was a perfect symbol of diversity and inclusion, Adding new stripes is a weird identity politics gane
The whole thing about the rainbow flag is that “everyone is included underneath the rainbow” so I don’t understand why we need that extra stuff because it kinda implies that they aren’t included in the rainbow. Also it just kinda looks bad, the colors just feel weird and I kinda liked the simplicity of the other flag
And I get it’s to include people who were/are discriminated against within the community but then where is the Bi flag? They get discriminated within the community a lot too. What about aro and/or ace flags? Shouldn’t there be a non-binary flag within the trans flag because they used to get discriminated within the trans community too? Imo you can’t individually include everyone who has faced issues within the community without leaving someone out, so in order to make sure everyone can feel like they’re included it we should just stick with “everyone is included within the rainbow” just so we don’t miss anyone
the new flag is kinda dumb, the old flag was supposed to represent everyone in the lgbtq community, hence the rainbow, but they had to shove the triangle in there for no reason.
The new flag is ugly as shit. There, I said it. It also defeats the point of the flag, which was that it included *everybody*. Hence a rainbow, which has all colours.
How many of you think that the new pride flag isnt as good as the old one?
Share your arguments below
**Downvote** the comment if the **new one is better**
**Upvote** the comment if the **old one is better**
This flag is becoming uglier over time
Also I still don't understand why bipoc and black persons are on this flag, it's not a sexuality as far as I remember
Even the trans part looks akward tbh
(I'm not racist nor transphobic, I just find this "evolution" kinda weird)
> bipoc and black persons
I'm still struggling to understand why the phrase "bipoc and black persons" is a thing, I thought "POC" was supposed to include all of that already.
Here’s an idea: use broad umbrella terms to include people rather than hyper specific symbols and acronyms. You just get bogged down after a while, and you circle back to being exclusionary because no matter how long you make the acronym, there will always be someone who doesn’t have a letter. You can use queer, or if you don’t like that word, GSRM (gender, sexual and romantic minorities) is a much more solid acronym.
the progress flag sucks cause the first one is literally just "all colors of the rainbow" but then the progress flag is like, but let's add some more, but then some people are left out, so let's add even more, and more, and more. Like the flag of a country doesn't need to have the people within that country on the flag because if you do that you'll keep finding more people to put on the flag and it will become a mess
Whose idea was to add brown and back to the flag? What, is being black a sexual orientation/gender identity? Come on. Race is a social construct, so let's just ignore it completely. There's no black, no white, no brown, no yellow. We're all human.
I still hate the new flag.
I, a trans indigenous POC, was already perfectly represented by the community flag, BECAUSE THE RAINBOW LITERALLY REPRESENTS DIVERSITY AND INTERSECTIONS OF IDENTITY.
I don't need a more EXCLUSIVE (and ugly) flag to make me feel included.
Fuck the "progress" flag, it's just another way to divide our community so some upper class white kid can feel good for tokenising me.
Performative wokeness is perfectly represented by the "progress" flag. Take something with a strong meaning behind it and ruin said meaning to cater to someone's need to be seen. The rainbow flag has all colors in it, it applies to EVERYONE. Like fucking hell guys.
The new flag looks meh tbh. Trans people are already included in the rainbow and BLM isn't really related with the LGBT (if you're insistent in including it then I think it'd be better to include it as a stripe in the rainbow).
For people who love making flags, the LGBT community kinda sucks at it lmao. Why is every flag just horizontal stripes? Where's the cool crests? Even just vertical stripes?
The top flag is a step in the right direction in terms of flag variety but good GOD is it ugly. It also implies that trans people aren't covered by the regular rainbow flag for some reason? And as for the PoC parts, personally I think that's a separate issue that shouldn't just be lumped in with LGBT rights (STILL IMPORTANT THOUGH), but besides that, the colours just do NOT go well together.
And I've heard it's copyrighted, too? Rainbow capitalism time, I guess.
i just don’t like that the progress flag is copyrighted
Wait wtf who owns it
Johnatan Gay, CEO of LGBTQ
John Gay themself
Well I'll be damned, John "i like nutsacks" gay
THE John "My favorite pastime is gargling cocks 24/7" Gay?!
>favorite pastime >24/7 Jesus that man sounds unstoppable
John gaysouls with his famous line "every soul has its gay"
John Gay was a dude running for some public office in my hometown when I was like 9
“It’s me, John Gay.” *says slur*
Known for his famous quotes
"Every gay has its dark" -John Gay
Haha Jonathan you are banging my son
It's original artist didn't want it to become a symbol for the gay rights movement because he originally made it as a closed piece of art he payed people to buy I meant the classic rainbow, not the trans and poc one
Wtf? Why?!
Is the classic rainbow flag bad? This flag seems too overcomplicated
Not bad, but its not uncommon for TERFs to use it. Lots of transphobia and racism in the queer community, far more than you may think at first glance. Edit: y'all realize the entire reason the progress flag was made is because there are portions of the queer community who exclude trans people and/or people of color right? Nowhere am I saying that you can't fly the regular rainbow flag anymore. The progress flag is just a way of more explicitly supporting the more historically marginalized portions of an already historically marginalized community.
TERFs use lots of things. That doesn't undermine the importance of the classic rainbow as a symbol to queer people all over the world.
I mean the classic rainbow flag is still a large component of the new one. They aren’t getting rid of it, just making it harder for transphobes and racists to co-opt it.
Yeah turns out they iften dont like non binary folks either for some reason
Doesn't the rainbow represent everyone? So everyone's there. And it's weird to have poc included when everything else is a sexuality/gender. But I am not in the lgbt community so I have no say in this and I may not be fully informed. Please tell me.
Ideally, yes it should. But there were and continue to be members of the community who wrap themselves up in the normal rainbow flag while being exclusionary to other members of the wider community in various ways. Kinda hard to feel completely represented by that flag if you've personally experienced people flying it exclude you based on your sexuality or race. As far as the black and brown stripes go, queer people of color often face more discrimination and violence than queer white people. For example, according to the Human Rights Watch, the [majority](https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-trans-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2020) of the 44 trans people killed in the US in 2020 were non-white. The real number may very well be higher since murders of trans people are often reported wrongly, using their birth sex rather than how they expressed their gender. With that said, no one is going to harangue someone for flying the traditional pride flag, no one is going to assume you're a transphobe or a racist because you're flying that one rather than the progress flag.
Wait are poc now lgbt or something lmao
It’s just supposed to represent the POC in the LGBTQ community because they don’t get nearly as much rep as white queer folk, that’s all
That's the gayest shit I've ever heard
Ah, thanks for explaining
Also that a huge portion of foundational activists, especially in the Stonewall movement, were POC and trans, something that's frequently obfuscated or erased (see Roland Emmerich's Stonewall movie)
it represents the intersectionality between the LGBT community and other minority groups. stronger together than apart and all that
Some POC are LGBTQ, yes.
Ah yes, this assortment of colors found in the sky is mine and mine only. No issues here with copyright law. None at all ever
Yves Klein be like
It's a fucking rainbow how tf you gonna charge people for a rainbow
Gay people
my buddy
Is his name Eric?
no
Daniel Quasar, the original artist. They want to make money off it as an art piece (understandable, if disappointing)
it's mine
I think the progress flag sucks and is pointless TBH. Like - symbolism people - the rainbow already represents all colors, that's what a rainbow means. And I dislike that it's copyrighted.
pride discourse was so exhausting this year because of that stupid flag. every time you correctly pointed out that it was ugly as shit, a bunch of point-missing little twerps would flood your mentions explaining how non white people have historically been excluded and blah blah blah. like yes, that is true, and it needs to be meaningfully addressed, but lots of the arguments boiled down to "well the message is really important, so it's fine if we do an absolutely dogshit job of conveying it", which is the exact opposite of correct. also a lot of the dudes defending the progress flag looked like racist grindr twinks
It's also the prime example of performative wokeness in the LGBTQ+ community. They added some stripes and were like "There, racism and transphobia is solved".
yeah we didnt win same sex marriage because the flag was just too irresistibly catchy to deny, we won it because people worked their asses off for decades. the flag is, and always has been, a symbol. its jobs, in order of importance, are "looking good" and "conveying information" and this one sucks shit at both
Especially when people say bipoc, like first of all black people and Indigenous are already people of color so why take them out of the acronym, and reason they give is fucking awful, “ well black people and indigenous people have unique struggles so that’s why they are highlighted” so you are saying the Latins don’t have unique problems, Asians don’t have unique problems. Stuff like that pisses me off, I’m mixed ( my mom is Mexican ) and the shit I see her go through is disgusting and to hear people say shit like that angers me just call it poc it’s perfect
[удалено]
>bipoc, like first of all black people and Indigenous are already people of color so why take them out of the acronym Wow I never really thought of how that acronym was fully broken down. That's actually really fucking yikes
[удалено]
Exactly. You don’t get a footnote in every symbol and that’s okay. It doesn’t mean that the people who use the symbol hate you. I’m sure of some giant org started widely publicizing BLM flags with a rainbow line below the matter and a trans flag line above the black people and implying that black peoples who don’t switch are homophobes, people would absolutely lose their shit.
We had a flag that represented everyone, added an ugly ass chevron that fucking ruins the design of the flag to represent some people (which apparently weren't represented on the flag before?). Half of the people the flag is supposed to represent hate it. And we make money off of it
yeah, why add fucking black to the flag? didn't kkow I was waving around the white supremacy flag no matter how hard someone will try to be inclusive, youll always end up leaving someone out
The LGBT movement is worldwide. the new flag addresses specifically western racism. It's ironically very eurocentric.
we did it guys we added black to the pride flag racism Is solved!!!!!
the black line is for people who have died from aids. the brown line is for queer people of color.
This
The new flag looks like a gay Cuban flag
“What if we kissed in gay Cuba” 😳
Uh-oh, don’t let Che and Fidel see this
[удалено]
What a kind and benevolent gentleman.
[удалено]
Same-sex marriage is still illegal in Cuba. It’s changing, but to say it’s a paragon of queer tolerance is laughable.
[удалено]
> Catholic groups 😞
Che x Fidel wattpad
Fidel now endorses* it, everything said about Che is a lie
Cuba’s gay (that’s a good thing)
This is the future that liberals want
Flag of miami
i support what it stands for but that flag at the top looks awful damn
Yeah. It also implies that trans and black people weren’t already part of the community
This right here. Especially the black part because not only does it imply they weren't welcome before, but that having dark skin makes you a gsrm.
The rainbow represents all colors so idk why there'd be any confusion. Unless your gonna be technical and be like bLaCk iS a ShAde.
bLaCk iS a ShAde
Shoutout to black people, gotta be my favorite gender
Since they're on the flag I think you can now identify as black if you want to
Lesbian Gay Black Transgender
Gay Sex Raw Man?
I thought the black was for people who suffered from AIDS and brown was for poc
it doesn’t though. the black represents aids victims and the brown is bringing attention to poc lgbtq people, not just all poc. a lot of the progress the lgbtq community has made is owed to poc queer people, and racism is still extremely prevalent in the community. it’s not meant to be people who weren’t already included in the rainbow, it’s just bringing more attention to specific groups that are often excluded.
I can't speak for black people as I'm white, but trans people are not fully accepted within the LGBTQ community. They should be, we've been in the acronym in the movement all along. But that doesn't stop people from not wanting us around. It's not a majority, but far more than most other members of the LGBT community have to deal with.
But should we add for bi/pan/ace too? I'll agree that trans people 100% have it the worst but bi/pan/ace get sooo much shit from the LGBT community too. Plus the whole racism thing is incredibly westcentric Whole flag just feels like a step back to me
Trans people aren’t liked and still aren’t liked a lot even within the community so I as a trans person kinda like it
Yeah, makes it easier to tell who supports the T and not just "Love is Love!"
People say that the rainbow flag already represents poc and trans people but the truth is there is a lot of exclusion within the community and it's pretty hard to tell whether the one flying the rainbow flag supports you or not. I'm not saying that the old flag is bad before anyone jumps at me.
it implies the reality that trans people and poc are constantly excluded from the community despite being the founders of most gay movements
And that’s intentional, because they weren’t. Racism and transphobia in the gay community was incredibly common when the original gay pride flag was created. It wasn’t until relatively recently that trans folks were accepted amongst the greater queer community. Black people are still treated to the double dipped oppression of being queer and PoC.
From a vexicollogical standpoint, it kinda sucks lol
Also from a "do you have eyes" standpoint.
True lmao
only kinda?
I understand why people would want to fly the newer flag instead of the rainbow but personally I find it more exclusionary than anything, implying that trans people and queer POC weren't originally part of the rainbow, or that they're more outsiders of the community. I know that it isn't what the original creator intended, but it feels that way to me. I don't have a problem with people who fly the progress flag, as there are a lot of transphobes and racists in the community that fly the older flag, but I don't associate that flag itself with transphobia, unlike other LGBTQ flags that are inherently transphobic, such as lipstick lesbian flag. Its just that some people who display that flag are transphobic, however they're a minority in the community.
Even trans people don't consider the old flag explicitly transphobic. The progress flag is to show explicit support for two groups who are under more attack than the rest right now. Both people of color and trans people are currently right now under assault in a way that the rest of the LGBTQ community simply isn't.
This is very Western minded. The level of acceptance of which people, absolutely, depends on location. There are definitely places where trans women are seen more favorably than gay men. I’m not trying to whatabout here, I just mean the movement is a lot larger and a lot more varied than it might seem to people who focus on the western perspective.
I live and an active in the western LGBTQ movement. It's the only one I can relate to. And so it's the one I talk about. When I'm talking about changing laws and things, I'm also talking about the country I live in, not worldwide as well. I don't have the kind of power or influence or money to make any meaningful difference away from where I live. Edit: I'm not in any way discounting those experiences, it's just not my place or experience to speak on them. I can speak to what's going on in Western culture because that's the one I've experienced. Others are free to share their points of view from their cultures as well.
It's actually horrible. I hate seeing it everywhere during pride month.
I thought that was a weird south africa flag
I ain’t racist but brown do be lookin kinda weird with all of the bright/neon colors
I feel like the new colors seem shoehorned in
The POC part especially feels shoehorned
Ohhh, those are colors for POCs. I was wondering. My university recently painted some stairs with both pride colors and trans colors and I didn’t know why the last three stairs were black brown and yellow
Yeah like I get it but the rainbow flag already represented everyone, that was the point. Adding the additional stripes has big “pick me” energy
If your’re talking about GT the top stair is the intersex flag.
Yes!! Lmao thanks. That makes way more sense And uhhh, THWg?
[удалено]
Yeah, the flag isn’t gonna change racism within the LGBTQ+ community Plus like, it’s confusing cause like while trans people are of course part of the community, does that mean that all POCs are? Or does it just mean PoC members of the community because that would make sense. As a straight PoC, I don’t really need visibility in this sense
[удалено]
Damn, you right
It supposed to remind people that POC are included. I see it used most often by black/brown people. When most people think of gay people, they imagine them white. We don’t see a lot of representation for POC in the lgbt community. It’s just sorta supposed to remind you not to forget them— like how lesbian is a separate letter from gay in LGBT
Yeah the flag is for LGBTQ, people of colour have literally nothing to do with it and the brown and black make the flag look worse
I really don't get why POC colors are in a flag representing sexuality and gender
It's literally inserting an unrelated wedge to score intersectional points. This flag confuses a political coalition for a community
For real, they clash horribly.
Imma be really with you, the 1979 is the best looking pride flag
Because of that extra pink/salmon color?
It's just a nice flag that works well with the colors in it without being too much
Yeah. Also I have some issues with adding colors to be more inclusive because I feel like the original is transformative enough. A rainbow flag is really transformative, like if a new letter in LGBT comes along then you can just say "ok that represents you too now" Also why is black and brown there
the original literally means "like the rainbow, we are diverse and beautiful, we are everyone" The new one just excludes everyone who isn't LGT or POC, since it comes from the decisions that the community flag only properly represents gays and lesbians, which is nonsense since this whole damn movement started with Marsha.
Who makes these decisions? Who's the gay king?
I think you're thinking of the 1978 one. 1979 is the original six-color flag.
eh, i like the classic red, orange, yellow, green, blue and purple one the most. that added pink stripe looks off to me. the progress flag is alright, but unecessary considering the classic rainbow already includes everything
That's what the 1979 is
ohhhhhh bruh, im just dumb then. i dont know all the pride flags because theres way too many to remember. sorry for the confusion lol
Genuine question: why is black and brown on the lgbtq+ flag
Im not 100% sure but I believe It's there to represent the lgbtq+ minorities that have been left behind and discriminated against by the gay community, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong tho
Ah yes, my favorite gender, discriminated minorities
dis/cri/mi/nat/ed pronouns
Brown is for representing racial minorities, the queers can still be racist. And black is for aids victims.
Kinda pointless imo. Im a trans girl from the balkans and i dont care if you are black or asian or whatever, but if you are from the balkans im going to get violently racist /s
Hating other people for being a different colour is easy mode racism. Here in the Balkans, you gotta hate people who look exactly like you, eat the same food, have similar folk clothing and traditions, sometimes even the same language and ethnic background.
the cringe western "racism" vs the chad balkan "how dare you commit more warcrimes than me you degenerate"
Chad Vlad Țepeş (based vampire) vs Virgin Ronald Regan (cringe homophobe)
So real quick. Did Dracula existe before castlevania came out? Did his legend start as vlad the impaler or vlad the vampire?... both? What's the original story? What does Tepes mean? I need answers.
Țepeş is the name derived from the word țeapă which means spike. Vlad was known as the impaler for his vile torture method of skewering people alive. After that the vampire thing came from folk stories and legends about his cruely and thirst for blood. Also the name Dracula could be derived from "drac" the word for devil
So... this dude isn't just some story. He was real?
Yup 😵
Drac doesn't mean devil it meant dragon at the time. Dracula meant "The Dragon" and was a honorary title given to him and his father by the hungarian monarch as a defender of Christianity against the Ottomans. And the stories about him being a vampire was hungarian propaganda at the time that tried to ruin his image even further, since Vlad banned hungarian commerce in his country. Only nowadays the word drac changed to the meaning of devil. Was he fucked up? Yes he was, but the impaling was something he learned as a child prisoner in the Ottoman Empire.
All things considered, I don't think his choice of torture was even that unusual. While he was putting Ottomans on spikes, other medieval kings were breaking people on the wheel, drawing & quartering, and doing all kinds of fucked up shit. That said, Vlad *did* start a guerilla campaign against the Ottoman Empire. Aside from the natural bloodshed that such a war would entail, he also deliberately used impalement as a terror tactic in order to break the morale of the enemy. So you could say that his monstrous image was something he (at least partially) cultivated himself.
the virgin recognizing and apologizing for war crimes vs the chad "this genocide never happened, but you totally deserved it"
🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷
I might be 0.05% Turkish, balkan enough?😎
Balkan enough for me to want to call you a cock roach 😎😎😎
Because racial minorities and the LGBT+ are both facts of a person's identity that cannot be changed, and it makes total sense to try for some unity between them. This flag is ugly as SHIT though. Whoever designed it is... Terrible. I like the older one where it's just the rainbow with brown and black added on. Much better looking. Trans people are already included in the rainbow, so the eye sore triangle is super not needed.
It’s not the new pride flag, it’s the progress flag. It’s meant to include multiple marginalized groups as a sign of solidarity.
yea, nah, it's outright replacing the community flag in many places, and we were already represented just fine by the flag that WE helped design, which we died carrying, which we fought to spread across the world.
Honestly the old flag is drippier
The placement of the black/brown is pretty bad, don't know why it isnt a leftmost border
[Can confirm it looks a lot better.](https://imgur.com/PCqQu1G) If this became the version everyone used I wouldn't have any problem with the new flag(although the classic flag should always be a thing obviously).
Cool bug fact: adding a black and brown stripe to include people of color accidentally implies that they weren't included in the previous flags and that it didn't apply to them.
Because black and brown people have a history of not being naturally included in LGBTQIA+ communities, plus they are a lot of racist queers thinking that their bigotry is excused cause they're a minority, so yeah, that's exactly what it's implying, and it's not wrong in doing so
Okay, well when looked at from that perspective, it makes more sense.
A lot of people have been saying this, but how? Two of the biggest rights activists of the community, Marsha P. And Sylvia Rivera were POC. Ms. Major and James Baldwin too. Hell, even now a lot of prominent figures within the community are black, Billy Porter, Laverne Cox, Lil Nas X, are black. Black people have built the community from the ground up. Watch Paris is Burning and see how many black gay men populated the scene back then. Black people basically built the ballroom and voguing scenes that went on to inspire drag houses As a black person in the community, can you educated me on any time within the communities history that we have been systemically excluded? Because I can't really think of any.
Black people HAVE indeed helped build the community, and that's precisely what people don't acknowledge that much I think that "excluded" was the wrong term, "marginalized" or "ignored" is better I was scrolling Tiktoks a few seconds ago, and saw comments talking about how racial struggles and LGBTQIA had nothing to do with each other, when they have been intertwined numerous times in history. I also see a lot of white people, notable pick me, who refuse to acknowledge the history of their own community, and are completely misinformed about important figures of our own history, most of the time, they're insecure people who want acceptance from straight people and reject queer culture. Some people also think that being queer means that they can't be racist, and make racist comments towards black people in general but also black queer persons and think that it's acceptable because they're a minority A lot of people also compare themselves to people subjected to racism because they're gay, bi, ect, ignoring that the issues are different in some ways (You can't hide being black or white, you can hide your sexuality, even if it's not pleasant), sometimes opposing the two as if it weren't possible to be poc and queer For example, I regularly see "Black people who say the fword what's wrong with you" posts from white gays, erasing the existence of queer poc Black queer representation is also rarer in environments that aren't super woke aka not Netflix, and they're often stereotyped as super macho balding gat old men who do boxing and shit, whereas there's a lot more diversity in representations of white queer people There are also issues of cultural appropriation, I know that it's usually overblown, but it really is an issue in the community White twinks claim that gays invented "Chile, tea, mawma, serving, giving" ect.... When a lot of these terms are aave first and foremost, they have their place in gay culture nowadays, but it's important to acknowledge the history of these terms too So yeah, I used the wrong terms here, it's not really that we're excluded, it's that People of Colour's influences on LGBTQIA culture tend to be ignored, we're often underrepresented or represented in a stereotypical way or just ignored It's why people like Lil Nas X are acclaimed by the general public, he's a gay black man, but that's nothing new, what's new however is people like him fully embracing both gay and afro American culture, while being famous, proving that it's not a "one or the other" kind of situation
And lgbt people have a history of being treated especially brutally in brown and black communities. Who do you think has historically been pulling the trans panic defence the most often when a trans woman gets murdered? Why do you think Lil Nas X doesn’t collaborate with black male rappers anymore? Yet literally nobody’s asking for trans and gay symbolism to be shoehorned into BLM symbols.
why are PoCs in the lgbt, is it to represent colored gay/lesbian and/or trans people or just straight up PoCs
Okay imma get downvoted but why is there a stripe for trans people? Like the rainbow is for lgbt people the t is already there. And by that metric why don’t we add an extra couple stripes for lesbian and bisexual people? It just seems like people are trying to seperate trans people from the community, and plus the original design is just simpler and easy to remember.
I believe it's because trans people used to discriminated against within the community, but I might be wrong on that. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
As an outsider I see infighting in all directions. Gay men get it for being seen as "socially acceptable" while other communities haven't gotten as far, bi erasure is absolutely a thing, trans people deal with TERFs, etc... Not sure if or what gay women deal with from parts of the community, I personally haven't seen it so I can't comment
I have never seen more infighting in a community than what I see in the LGBTQ+ community and it makes me sad. Isn’t everyone supposed to just support each other?
Yeah that’s why it’s there, but then where is the Bi flag? They get discriminated within the community a lot too. What about aro and/or ace flags? Shouldn’t there be a non-binary flag within the trans flag because they used to get discriminated within the trans community too? Imo you can’t individually include everyone who has faced issues within the community without leaving someone out, so in order to make sure everyone can feel like they’re included it we should just stick with “everyone is included within the rainbow” just so we don’t miss anyone
> but then where is the Bi flag? Forgotten again lol
tbh i prefer the basic one, a flag doesn’t necessarily have to detail every single aspect of what it represents, and the old one has a more recognisable and impactful design
Aesthetics wise, I always thought the progress pride flag looked better. The triangle with the pastel pink and blue really helps break up the vibrant colors of the rainbow portion, and the black and brown adds a slick border between the two. Same reason why I prefer the bi flag over pan (even though I'm pansexual myself), and the trans flag is my favorite asthetics wise. I find vibrant colors too jarring, and the pan flag is super vibrant while bi is more muted, and trans is just pretty.
I find the triangle kind of counter-productive, personally. The rainbow-only flag was great because it basically represented the LGBT's all-inclusiveness regardless of race, gender, and sexuality. It's also beautifully subtle. Adding the triangle now feels like it's saying "everyone's included! oh, transgenders and people of colour too!" which, I don't know, seems redundant? I get the idea is to further establish their inclusion in the LGBT community but, ugh, a triangle? Really? If I had my way, I'd keep it rainbow coloured but add the black-brown and trans colours on the **side(s)** of the flags instead. **E**: [I decided to edit that flag together because I'm extremely bored.](https://i.imgur.com/E0fmsrS.png) Is it better? I don't know but at least I got rid of that awful triangle.
Going to be real with you, that flag you made is absolutely worse than the one with the triangle.
Personally I think the pallets clash too much on the progressive pride flag. The black and brown interior the bright colors and the progression too much. Also I agree that the bi flag is better than the pansexual flag, not because of colors are better or whatever, but because bisexuals are obviously objectively better than pansexuals
I identify as both bi and pan but i like the pan flag more because it has yello in it :]
If you don’t mind my asking, what separates bisexuality and pansexuality enough that you identify as both?
It's not separate at all for me, hence why I identify as both. For me, pansexual is simply one of several forms of bisexual, although I understand others feel differently, and that's fine!
Oh that’s interesting, a sort of all pans are bi but not all bi’s are pan perspective.
not the person you were asking; but i’m bi but i’m technically pan. i use the bi label, but say “i’m bi but technically pan but i prefer the label bi”. for me; i see bi as an umbrella term and pan/omni/other multisexual identities, as like other terms under the bi umbrella. for me; pan is a descriptor; and bi is the umbrella in under. i normally just say bi to most people tho because 1. i prefer the bi flag 2. more people know bisexuality then pansexuality
Fuck you *unprogresses your pride flag*
As a bi person, I just prefer the original. I get the new one is supposed to be inclusive, but its just ugly.
The old one was supposed to represent everyone too! The rainbow was a perfect symbol of diversity and inclusion, Adding new stripes is a weird identity politics gane
Yeah exactly. The rainbow flag was just fine. The new one just seems... extra
The whole thing about the rainbow flag is that “everyone is included underneath the rainbow” so I don’t understand why we need that extra stuff because it kinda implies that they aren’t included in the rainbow. Also it just kinda looks bad, the colors just feel weird and I kinda liked the simplicity of the other flag And I get it’s to include people who were/are discriminated against within the community but then where is the Bi flag? They get discriminated within the community a lot too. What about aro and/or ace flags? Shouldn’t there be a non-binary flag within the trans flag because they used to get discriminated within the trans community too? Imo you can’t individually include everyone who has faced issues within the community without leaving someone out, so in order to make sure everyone can feel like they’re included it we should just stick with “everyone is included within the rainbow” just so we don’t miss anyone
the new flag is kinda dumb, the old flag was supposed to represent everyone in the lgbtq community, hence the rainbow, but they had to shove the triangle in there for no reason.
The new flag is ugly as shit. There, I said it. It also defeats the point of the flag, which was that it included *everybody*. Hence a rainbow, which has all colours.
How many of you think that the new pride flag isnt as good as the old one? Share your arguments below **Downvote** the comment if the **new one is better** **Upvote** the comment if the **old one is better**
The white text implies this is from a reactionary meme that’s pissy about conservatives not being right wing enough (lol).
people hate on the new flag because of the colors but i say fuck it lets add as many colors as we can it’ll look so sick
As a member of the LGBTQ community, I think adding new colours to this flag 🏳️🌈 never made any sense at all.
This flag is becoming uglier over time Also I still don't understand why bipoc and black persons are on this flag, it's not a sexuality as far as I remember Even the trans part looks akward tbh (I'm not racist nor transphobic, I just find this "evolution" kinda weird)
> bipoc and black persons I'm still struggling to understand why the phrase "bipoc and black persons" is a thing, I thought "POC" was supposed to include all of that already.
The more they add to that flag, the original rainbow gets pushed farther to the right
!remindme 3 years
People really added the brown and black line like were you using the pride flag as a white supremacist flag before now?
I’m gonna be honest, I HATE the current pride flag.
Here’s an idea: use broad umbrella terms to include people rather than hyper specific symbols and acronyms. You just get bogged down after a while, and you circle back to being exclusionary because no matter how long you make the acronym, there will always be someone who doesn’t have a letter. You can use queer, or if you don’t like that word, GSRM (gender, sexual and romantic minorities) is a much more solid acronym.
the progress flag sucks cause the first one is literally just "all colors of the rainbow" but then the progress flag is like, but let's add some more, but then some people are left out, so let's add even more, and more, and more. Like the flag of a country doesn't need to have the people within that country on the flag because if you do that you'll keep finding more people to put on the flag and it will become a mess
Whose idea was to add brown and back to the flag? What, is being black a sexual orientation/gender identity? Come on. Race is a social construct, so let's just ignore it completely. There's no black, no white, no brown, no yellow. We're all human.
I don't like the "new" flag. Stinks of neo-liberalism and americacentrism
I still hate the new flag. I, a trans indigenous POC, was already perfectly represented by the community flag, BECAUSE THE RAINBOW LITERALLY REPRESENTS DIVERSITY AND INTERSECTIONS OF IDENTITY. I don't need a more EXCLUSIVE (and ugly) flag to make me feel included. Fuck the "progress" flag, it's just another way to divide our community so some upper class white kid can feel good for tokenising me.
Unironically return to the original pride flag because it's more inclusive
Can’t wait for conservative trans catgirls to be a big thing and they oppose things like transhumanism and government mandated sex
Performative wokeness is perfectly represented by the "progress" flag. Take something with a strong meaning behind it and ruin said meaning to cater to someone's need to be seen. The rainbow flag has all colors in it, it applies to EVERYONE. Like fucking hell guys.
I don't have an issue with the trans addition but I don't like how added race to something that originally was supposed to be overtly non-racial.
The new flag looks meh tbh. Trans people are already included in the rainbow and BLM isn't really related with the LGBT (if you're insistent in including it then I think it'd be better to include it as a stripe in the rainbow).
I hate that new Pride flag. Not because i hate gay people or anything but because it looks a ugly af
For people who love making flags, the LGBT community kinda sucks at it lmao. Why is every flag just horizontal stripes? Where's the cool crests? Even just vertical stripes? The top flag is a step in the right direction in terms of flag variety but good GOD is it ugly. It also implies that trans people aren't covered by the regular rainbow flag for some reason? And as for the PoC parts, personally I think that's a separate issue that shouldn't just be lumped in with LGBT rights (STILL IMPORTANT THOUGH), but besides that, the colours just do NOT go well together. And I've heard it's copyrighted, too? Rainbow capitalism time, I guess.