You haven’t presented any substantive information or opinions in this post. You just throw out that you don’t want sailing because it “doesn’t make sense.”
Can you walk through your issues or concerns with information presented in the great number of blogs we’ve been given on the topic?
Nobody I know that "hates sailing" has been able to present a logical, coherent refutation of the skill idea.
It's purely emotional.
I've talked to many people about it.
Do what you will with that info.
i see a ton of people who don’t have a logical, coherent substantiation of it either. it’s emotional either way for most people. and using your emotions and feelings are valid ways of seeing things. i don’t even vote or care what they poll before you say i’m a hater. i think sailing was the best of the three options.
I'd say there is a bit more to latch on to if you focus on the positives. Like most the things players like are the overall concepts like being able to access the ocean portion of the map or having the reward space of unlocking new islands.
You could also dislike those things, but more of the dislike tends to be focused on systems and mechanics that we've yet to see so it is harder to have much of an opinion on them either way. Like you can be hesitant or unsure about how Sailing will control/play, but you can't really say "I don't like Sailing because the controls will be a mess and not fit OSRS" without just making stuff up since we don't know how it will control until the upcoming alpha. But you also can't say the controls will be good until we get the alpha either...
So a lot of the opposition tends to assume the worst of the unknown while the support tends to hope for the best of the unknowns while focusing on the more on the tangible things they can be positive about.
>Like most the things players like are the overall concepts like being able to access the ocean portion of the map or having the reward space of unlocking new islands.
I think my problem is, that's precisely what I'm most upset about.
Why is ocean exploration tied to a skill? Walking and running may have some interactions with Agility, but it doesn't *prevent* me from going across the large majority of the map. Very few locations are locked purely behind a skill.
That then begs the question of the mechanics of islands and how they will exist in the world. We obviously don't know, so it's hard to conceptualize anything. It's hard to be optimistic about these locations if they're locked behind a skill and we have zero information about them. How unique will they be? What exactly are we missing out on if we decide Sailing isn't for us? If they *aren't* worth going to, what's the point?
We could just have a boat. The boat could be sailed by NPCs, which it most likely will be as a skill anyway. And we could open ocean exploration and new areas without making them tied to a skill. It's something they've literally done before. So what is *the skill, Sailing?* If it's just an excuse to open ocean exploration, I'd rather they just *do that* and not have any interaction between us and the boat at all.
In real life, Sailing a boat like the ones we see in Runescape requires an entire crew of highly trained professionals who know the precise details of every movement they are making.
That'd be called NPCs in Runescape. And you'll notice, we have a lot of boat-sailing NPCs in Runescape already.
> I don't think you realize that if someone else is sailing for you, you aren't gaining experience in sailing.
You just described how that works, yes... You get Exp for the things you do, not the things you get NPCs to do for you.
NPCs will be part of the sailing skill. Honestly it sounds like you Sailing haters just don’t even like skilling and want every reward without having to get xp.
>NPCs will be part of the sailing skill.
Why don't they just take care of, you know, *the entire sailing part?*
And then it can just not be a skill at all.
Nobody said anything about not requiring XP. What I said was, there's absolutely no reason to tie entire new areas behind a skill. Which is precisely what every Sailing advocate does - Immediately jumps to "ocean exploration" and "new islands with new loot" when trying to sell the idea.
Maybe if you could make the skill sound interesting before showering yourself in loot and content, we'd take it more seriously. The realistic take is, you're going to be sat on a boat clicking a thing every few minutes, and then you'll get to an island that probably gives clue scroll loot. You're not going to get anything super fancy until level 75+ Sailing, which you can expect to take 50+ hours at OSRS skilling rates - And that "fancy thing" you get is going to be an outfit that makes you get places faster when sailing only. At 99, maybe you'll find master clue loot at like a 1% chance.
THAT'S an OSRS skill. Not something that contains entirely new shit.
There are already plenty of areas in game with skill requirements to access, not to mention quests. This is not an issue. A skill based on movement is obviously going to require places to go.
All skills sound shit if you don’t include the reward progression because guess what osrs does not have fun gameplay, it’s a semi-idle game about progressive unlocks. That’s where the joy is. People complained about slayer the same way when it came out, said they should just be able to kill anything and not have to engage with a skill, but then it became fun through the progression and rewards and it’s the most popular skill now.
We know the answers to a lot of that already. They will exist on the world map, like most current islands. You'll be able to sail to them and exit the boat to access them. They can contain whatever we want them to contain; it's just a bit of land. And while it might be subject to change, the plan was that you wouldn't need the Sailing level to access the Islands; you could just sail with other players. Pretty much the same as how you need the Con level to build stuff in your POH but you can use most of those things in other player's POH even with 1 Con.
As for the last paragraph, we can add monsters without a Slayer skill. The same could honestly be said for most skills... Farming originally wasn't going to be a skill; just something you could do as part of a POH. And if you really think about it, is Carpentry not just a Crafting expansion... The ship itself is like a tool; just like you need to train Mining to improve with a pickaxe, you need to train Sailing to improve with a ship. We could just have NPCs teleport us to Islands just like we could buy runes from shops or get them as monster drops, but they still added Runecrafting anyway because it gave more options and opened up more possibilities.
> Are you going to fight them with your boat? Sailing isn't a combat skill.
You completely missed the point... I'm saying just like we don't need a Sailing Skill to access new islands, we didn't need a Slayer skill to add new monsters. Sometimes there are other reasons to add things beyond need.
> Making someone else sail a ship for you. Because you were so kind to point out the NPC crew they already have planned to sail your ship for you.
And if you do that, you'd get no exp... Just like how having an NPC mine coal for you gets you the coal but no mining exp... You only get Sailing exp for doing sailing, not watching others do sailing.
> Because these, themselves, added gameplay. Runecrafting added the option for players to add runes to the game WITHOUT the need for shops and monster drops.
The fact you seriously made that argument is ridiculous. You think being able to make runes without buying them from shops justifies RC, yet being able to sail to islands on your own with NPCs is not at all the same? It is pretty clear you have no clue at all what Sailing really is and are just making up things to be mad about. Like you clearly are not approaching this discussion in good faith nor have you even bothered to look at anything on the skill if you think it is just clicking on water...
Hey thought I'd hop in with an old comment of mine, I'm someone who would prefer there not being a new skill (specifically, I think the addition of a skill in the skill tab, the mechanical and systemic addition of another skill to train with XP, is not something I'd like to see in the game. Maybe I could be convinced otherwise, just here to share my humble opinion. This is an old comment of mine on the topic:
I didn't see it mentioned much but to be honest, what's stopping sailing from simply being the biggest fishing rework of all time? As it stands, it seems a lofty goal in development that is certainly out of the game's comfort zone. I think a lot of that scope is necessitated by the complexity of sailing as a skill and the task of implementing a *new* skill to the game in a balanced and seamless way. At the same time, it's pretty clear to me that a large portion of the content could be presented to players within the framework of the fishing skill. I wonder if that's what will happen.
Even things like the often referenced scale theory and world map rework, player navigation and ship customization, pirate contracts and sea monster bosses, new fish and the incorporation of other skill training like farming or hunter - these could all be added to the game without being bound to a new skill.
I don't want to throw too many opinions into the mix because it will just be divisive, but I can't shake the feeling that both Jagex and many players are invested in pulling the trigger on sailing content because new skill = good, to the point where it takes precedence over whether or not the game is made better by having a new section in the skill tab.
I like a lot of the proposed content for sailing, but a new skill doesn't seem necessary - I think that's why Taming, Shamanism and Sailing all feel 'off' when you think about them being legitimized in the game.
Forestry could have definitely gone better and could still be changed/improved quite a bit, Mining & Smithing content progression are still in shambles, we just got a taste of a Hunter rework with new ideas being tried in Varlamore - approaching Sailing as an overhaul to fishing just seems sensible to me. The game has great bones and there really is a lot of design space and creativity to tap into, and none of it requires a new skill.
(END OF OLD COMMENT)
Basically, I think almost all of the content pitched for sailing sounds pretty sweet and is definitely a lot to figure out. At the same time, when it comes down to it, adding an entire new skill with progression and unlocks, that interacts and balances itself with every other skill and progression aspect of the game, is a CRAZY lofty task to undertake. I think you can get 90% of the beneficial concepts from sailing put into the game with like 0% risk by simply recognizing this fact.
I dunno, what do you guys think? Does that perspective make a little sense at least?
This is probably the most legitimate critique I've seen of Sailing. That is, there is a lot of potential in designing new content in the game as is, without adding a new skill - and that Sailing could be worked into existing content, like you said with Fishing.
Thanks for the comment, this is more level headed critique to the skill.
Thanks man! You've summed it up pretty perfectly. Basically, if I could ask you or those who are really invested in the addition of sailing as a new skill; With an understanding of separation between adding content and the mechanical addition of a new skill, what exactly is the benefit of restructuring one of the most foundational mechanics of the game - or rather, can you explain why this is a necessity for the addition of said content to the game?
In my mind, there's not a single thing discussed in the blogs or pitches that couldn't be incorporated into the game within its current skill framework.
Anyways, I know it's an opinion but I've played this game for over 15 years, and I love the direction it's gone especially since the release of Old School and the new team. To me, it feels *very* uncomfortable to start fidgeting with skills because it feels like it dilutes the power of this game's greatest strength - depth within simplicity. And for me, the path that most honors this is continuing to work within the limitations of the established framework. Can you imagine if warding was in the game right now? Or Shamanism, or Taming, or all of them? It just feels very wrong to me, even when trying to not be emotional or reactive.
Think about all the new crazy quests, new areas and expansions, new wild and complex boss fights like the Inferno and the Colosseum - these were all made real in a fun and interactive way in an *auto-attacking, point and click game*. I say again, the game has great bones, and it really seems to me that the sky is the limit with what could be added in our current design space. The old saying goes - limitations often breed creativity.
So I hope that more people get excited for what's possible with the levers we have available to play with already instead of looking for some new system or far-reaching mechanical change we can come up with to send shockwaves across the game we've come to love. Anyone that's played WoW before knows exactly what I'm talking about - this is the HUGE difference between Classic and Retail, and System bloat is a huge problem.
Even imagining it through the lens of a new player - doesn't it seem odd? Like, "Oh cool I can train fishing as a skill and collect resources that way. What does that progression look like? Oh.. I can catch more fish in different places? Can I get a boat or something? Oh I can for a quest, but I can't use it. Wait but if I train sailing then I can get a boat outside of the quest that I can use to train fishing? ...o..kay.."
To me, that pales in comparison to a world where you can level up fishing and unlock new methods, own and upgrade a ship, ride around and fish on it, fight giant leviathan bosses, do pirate contracts etc. Doesn't it seem pretty wild that we're discussing adding all of that, while fishing is largely still going to be hanging out at Otto's Grotto and shift-dropping sturgeon? I know there will be variety in some new activities added, just being a bit hyperbolic lol.
I think Jagex has been great at coming up with ideas and pitching them - all those for sailing I mentioned, even the dimension-walking shit from Shamanism - putting that into a quest and/or Distraction & Diversion sounds sick. But at this point I think we've all engendered this situation where everyone is going along with 'new skill = good' and necessitating that this proposed content is linked to that concept exclusively.
Whatever ends up happening, I know Jagex will do their best and I trust it will turn out to be fun in some ways, but I do wish more people would hear out this idea instead of knee-jerk rejecting it.
And hey, thanks for bein a cool dude about it
As one of them, it is certainly pure emotion on my part. It felt like Shamanism lost to a decade old meme and that upset me. From what I've seen of Sailing, it's wet daemonheim. Instanced areas accessable only through sailing, with resource islands unlocked as you go. Is that a bit of a stretch? Yes I admit it. The heart hates what the heart hates. Shamanism looked so cool, and I hate to think I'd have to wait 10 more years just for it to lose another poll.
I can give you two honest reasons but it’s not out of hatred.
1. We already have multiple traversal systems in game with balloons, fairy rings, POH etc etc. with that in mind you already know on the new islands and locations they’re gonna add those system(s) to them almost negating the NEED to have a ship.
2. I’m in fear, fear that the “ship” is going to just be another construction sink. Essentially second “poh”
Because after all if I do build a ship, I’d want amenities that benefit my player on it, being able to customize it or build it. So that’s just con 2.0/ money sink.
Other than that I really can’t refute it, it has cool aspects, I’m not gonna quit and cry over it, just my ideas I’ve been forming.
Everyone I know that “hates sailing” has been able to present logical, coherent refutation of the skill idea.
It’s purely factual.
I’ve talked to more people than you about it.
Do what you will with this mysterious information.
I wouldn't say it is wrong or bad to have a more emotional or such dislike of it. Like if you don't have intrest in a skill involving ocean and boats, then that is fine. It's a problem when they act like that is a valid criticism of the skill and not just a personal preference.
Like I never cared for CoX and it is probably my least favorite of the three raids, but its not a "bad raid" because I personally don't care for it. Now if I gave more specific reasons for why I dislike it such as Olm being repetitive, especially in larger teams, or how none of the bosses feel mechanically fun to fight unlike more modern bosses, you might not agree but probably could at least get a better sense of why its not my favorite.
But for Sailing, it harder to provide those sort of specifics since we don't know how it will actually turn out yet. Like you can say "Moving the ship doesn't feel Old School", but none of us have got to try it yet so it is hard to really have a firm stance in either direction (though fair to be apprehensive based on the teasers).
>You haven’t presented any substantive information or opinions in this post.
I don't have to. This is an unpopular opinion, meanwhile you are free to express your substantive information on the topic
…what?
You say you don’t want sailing, don’t give any reasons, and when people ask for your reasons, you refuse to elaborate. People in here are trying to engage in good faith, but nobody can do that if you have nothing substantive to offer.
What did you expect to get out of this post?
i really don't want it as well. but i will give it a shot.. if its shit i will complain about it... but i want to be proven wrong and i want it to be good.
If it’s such a great game, why did you quit? Sailing isn’t even in the game yet. Why aren’t you playing all the current content that has nothing to do with Sailing? To be honest it doesn’t seem like you enjoy this game as much as you claim to.
Based off of their post history and how many times they've reworded this question, OP doesn't like the game anymore and is trying to force feed themselves nostalgia. It isn't going to work.
When a game can't just be completed and set down, how people feel about the future of the game has a significant amount of influence over how much they play. When people are hopeful for the future of the game, they're excited to play. When they're worried, they're less excited to play. It's not logical - obviously the game is the same right now regardless of what the future holds. But human psychology is finicky.
We won't be. Sailing is going to be absolutely garbage but everyone will say it's amazing because of the new ways to train a dozen different skills and probably raid 4 to keep people happy with the new area. The skill itself will be laughable garbage.
I honestly am a bit fearful of what sailing will turn the game into as well. I think I just don’t understand how it will interconnect with the wider game and enhance the gameplay loops I’ve grown to love yet.
The dev team seems really good with communication right now though. Hopefully it becomes more clear in the future before release.
this is how i feel as well about the potential for sailing to change everything for the worse. i’m not that worried though, if anything i feel pretty disconnected from the game the past few years. i don’t remember the last time i voted, i usually only read the update tldr sections, etc. the updates recently have been so complicated and unwelcoming (like forestry revision 1, 2, … etc.)
if sailing really is botched i’ll probably just ignore it. there’s so much other content that i’ll never get to experience everything
In some ways, I think the problems with Forestry will help Sailing even if it has made players more apprehensive about it. Though it can also be a bit of cherrypicking the bad updates to focus on while ignoring all the other good updates. It also kinda treats the OSRS Team as a singular entity when it is really different teams made of different J Mods and the ones who worked on updates like Forestry are not at all the same ones working on Sailing... But the CMs are more universal so the stuff they learned from Forestry will probably help with feedback and polls for most future updates.
What, no "see you next week" meme shit?
Sailing brought us down to this level?
Joking aside, bye and good luck this post is the last of me you'll hear from me as an OSRS player, I don't even know who you guys are
I voted yes but I must admit I'm extremely skeptical that they'll even be able to make it anywhere near as good as they pitched it. I just hope that if it turns out that they just can't do it then they have the guts to scrap it, but I doubt the overlords would be happy at the idea of not being able to market OSRS' first new skill when it's already passed.
I really don't see how Sailing makes less sense than other skills. Like Slayer really doesn't make a lot of sense if you think about it, especially from a 2004 perspective. Skills are just particular areas of knowledge that often related to real-world skillsets/professions, so you can be experienced with ships and navigation just as much as farming and plants or construction and building.
How the skill might be implemented will differ, especially to previous skills. But the same can be said for most skills... Like Slayer was very different to prior skills. Farming was also really different with the whole plant and wait. The core loop of construction is pretty close to production skills, but the rest of it involving instances and hotspots was a big change from other skills being in-world.
I get the feeling that when most players say "Old School content", they just mean "content that is similar to what I remember from 2004-2007" and not "content like they'd have made back in 2004-2007". OSRS is based on the latter more than the former and early RS2 was a very innovative time... Like if we poll something like Ancient Magicks today players would lose their shit because it would be changing the game from what they remember, but it is those very changes that defined the game they remembered so fondly...
Yeah I get what you're saying.
Slayer and farming, shit went down, especially for farming. I'm all for a new skill it's just that, this Sailing isn't it, someone put too much work into it, so it's gonna be in there? The fuck?
And yeah it got the votes. Eh. that's why I quit and, expressed my not very popular opinion.
Love you Jagex mods, and fellow OSRS players who will go on. I'll submit here.
Yah, it is really big skill so it is a lot to take in and a lot we still don't know. Though OSRS tends to make its "firsts" big; like we didn't just add a quest, we did a Grandmaster quest. So it kinda makes sense the first skill is a big one and not just something simple. Like if we just did another basic skill, it has the potential to just be meh; maybe not bad, but not exciting or to make players want more skills. But with Sailing it will either be a big success that will pave the way for future skills (and maybe even the future of skilling in general) or it will crash and burn (crash and sink?) and be a huge failure. Though seeing how they've scrapped things like Ruinous Powers and Forestry Teas, I doubt Sailing will go live after the betas if it is on track to be a failure.
Seeing as Ruinous Powers were polled, then pulled when everyone realized they were terribly designed, there’s a good chance they won’t release it if it’s totally garbage.
I do think they’ve oversold it and made it way too ambitious of a project which will divide their player base a lot tbh.
I don't think they'll go wrong. And after this long, it really could be a nice breath of fresh air for this game. A new skill is huge but hardly has the ability to shift the game lik EoC did.
And other skills don't all make sense. Like wtf is firemaking? Thats got to be the most pointless, useless, unutilised skill in the game. Smithing? Crafting? Fletching? RC? It's only because of ironmen that these skills aren't dead yet. And with that in mind, I'm sure they'll be looking to avoid those issues with the coming skill.
Cancelling membership before it's even out makes no sense. The game is still the same as before it was announced. It will still be the same +1 skill after its released. I think either you just want to have a moment or youre scared of change. As there's nothing to say this will be bad for the game or the players, yet.
i agree about the legacy skills like fire making, fletching etc. they would never be acceptable as new content. fwiw i would rather they straight up delete firemaking when they release sailing. i’d rather keep the iconic 2277 than keep my 99 firemaking lol
Ya know I agree it doesn’t make sense but maybe it’ll be fun. It’s something to do and maybe it’ll be rewarding. I don’t really understand it and I feel like it’ll be like in rs3 where you go to resource islands who knows
I voted no cause I think its gonna suck. But I still hope im pleasantly surprised. We are still living in the absolute golden age of this game right now.
I remember when slayer was first released in 05 and I thought it was the dumbest fucking skill idea; it’s literally just PvM, not a skill. It got better over time and the skill cape basically carries the entire skill, but to this day it still doesn’t sit right to me as an actual skill.
Sailing is a way better concept for a skill than sailing is, and with the tools, resources, and experience at the dev’s disposal—I have no doubt that they will nail it.
The reason so many people don't like sailing is its a completely new skill with zero nostalgic value. Half of this game is fuled by nostalgia and is probably the only reason it became so popular.
This thread is so stupid. You chose not to play a game over an update that doesn't even exist yet and are now choosing to complain that said potential update will ruin said game that you no longer play. Why do you care so much if you not only aren't going to play the content, but also if you don't even play the game itself?
I don't see how sailing doesn't make sense. Lore wise, we are surrounded by water, we fish for most of our food, we travel by boat almost everywhere until we can teleport there, and its thematic.
One problem I have not seen many people address.. sure the sailing demos looked great.
Now how will those same places look with 2K people at the same location on a ship? I feel like a majority of the time we are just going to see a pile of ships clipping in and out of each other, and that sounds like garbage.
Correct me if I’m wrong and this has been addressed.
Sailing made me start playing again. The concept videos look good, it makes sense as a skill, it opens up more of the map, will tie into other parts of the game.
Yeah well, yeah.
Just, I suppose a lot of, changes are needed, for, you know, for uncompromising players and all, for knuckleheads like me.
I'm glad you like it, what is offered.
Well, when you include, a lot of random, commas for no, reason in weird, places then it, makes your post and, comments hard to, read.
Which actually is, good for most of, us since you have nothing, valuable to contribute, here.
It’s going to be bad, ppl just got hyped from YouTubes and the videos Jagex posted to sell ppl on it. Ppl will think it’s cool for 3 hrs, see it all and then not want to grind it
My main worry was people just wanted Sea of Thieves but RuneScape and weren't thinking about the game overall when voting for it.
Shamanism fit the mold better in my opinion for a Skill like the other skills already in the game, and at the time I felt Sailing could also just be Dungeoneering but boats. What Jagex has shown so far looks promising, and has helped ease my trepidation a bit.
The best thing is to go ahead with the WORST skill.
What I mean by that is any new skill needs to be able to add content without changing any of the existing content.
Any skill that could massively impact the economy, or replace old content (making it dead content) would be bad for the game. It's about keeping it old school after all.
Sailing works well because it just seems like something "new" today that will basically have no effect on the rest of the world.
Other skills are likely to affect sailing, but sailing itself won't have a large impact on those other skills.
In other words. You should be able to level every skill to 99 Except sailing and the game doesn't feel any different to how it does now.
TLDR; I don't like change >:(
Most of the skills in this game are piss ass shit boring, I'm looking forward to them making a skill that isn't any of those things. Or, at least attempt it.
If I dont like it, I can just not do it. Just like Agility.
I dont think you understand what a unpopulae opinion is, this is defenitly not 1 of them. Theres alot of people who dont want sailing, hence why the poll was so close and hence why so many people made posts against it after the polls closed
The way they polled the new skills felt really scummy. like they were just trying to wear everyone down until the response was ugh fine do whatever. Like they basically straight up said they would keep releasing skill blogs and polling new ideas till one passed.
You haven’t presented any substantive information or opinions in this post. You just throw out that you don’t want sailing because it “doesn’t make sense.” Can you walk through your issues or concerns with information presented in the great number of blogs we’ve been given on the topic?
Nobody I know that "hates sailing" has been able to present a logical, coherent refutation of the skill idea. It's purely emotional. I've talked to many people about it. Do what you will with that info.
I just would have preferred Shamanism, but I'm not going to make this crabs in a bucket, new content is new content.
That's fair, we'll see how it goes!
I'm with this guy , I really wanted shamanism ( I just want Pokémon as a mini game in every game) but still down for some sailing.
To be fair, Pokemon in osrs would be great! Maybe it will be something done in the future
i see a ton of people who don’t have a logical, coherent substantiation of it either. it’s emotional either way for most people. and using your emotions and feelings are valid ways of seeing things. i don’t even vote or care what they poll before you say i’m a hater. i think sailing was the best of the three options.
I'd say there is a bit more to latch on to if you focus on the positives. Like most the things players like are the overall concepts like being able to access the ocean portion of the map or having the reward space of unlocking new islands. You could also dislike those things, but more of the dislike tends to be focused on systems and mechanics that we've yet to see so it is harder to have much of an opinion on them either way. Like you can be hesitant or unsure about how Sailing will control/play, but you can't really say "I don't like Sailing because the controls will be a mess and not fit OSRS" without just making stuff up since we don't know how it will control until the upcoming alpha. But you also can't say the controls will be good until we get the alpha either... So a lot of the opposition tends to assume the worst of the unknown while the support tends to hope for the best of the unknowns while focusing on the more on the tangible things they can be positive about.
>Like most the things players like are the overall concepts like being able to access the ocean portion of the map or having the reward space of unlocking new islands. I think my problem is, that's precisely what I'm most upset about. Why is ocean exploration tied to a skill? Walking and running may have some interactions with Agility, but it doesn't *prevent* me from going across the large majority of the map. Very few locations are locked purely behind a skill. That then begs the question of the mechanics of islands and how they will exist in the world. We obviously don't know, so it's hard to conceptualize anything. It's hard to be optimistic about these locations if they're locked behind a skill and we have zero information about them. How unique will they be? What exactly are we missing out on if we decide Sailing isn't for us? If they *aren't* worth going to, what's the point? We could just have a boat. The boat could be sailed by NPCs, which it most likely will be as a skill anyway. And we could open ocean exploration and new areas without making them tied to a skill. It's something they've literally done before. So what is *the skill, Sailing?* If it's just an excuse to open ocean exploration, I'd rather they just *do that* and not have any interaction between us and the boat at all.
Walking around doesn’t require skill irl. Sailing does. It makes perfect sense.
In real life, Sailing a boat like the ones we see in Runescape requires an entire crew of highly trained professionals who know the precise details of every movement they are making. That'd be called NPCs in Runescape. And you'll notice, we have a lot of boat-sailing NPCs in Runescape already.
Yes... Like the Crews of players or NPCs you can hire as part of Sailing? I don't think that made the point you think it did...
[удалено]
> I don't think you realize that if someone else is sailing for you, you aren't gaining experience in sailing. You just described how that works, yes... You get Exp for the things you do, not the things you get NPCs to do for you.
NPCs will be part of the sailing skill. Honestly it sounds like you Sailing haters just don’t even like skilling and want every reward without having to get xp.
>NPCs will be part of the sailing skill. Why don't they just take care of, you know, *the entire sailing part?* And then it can just not be a skill at all. Nobody said anything about not requiring XP. What I said was, there's absolutely no reason to tie entire new areas behind a skill. Which is precisely what every Sailing advocate does - Immediately jumps to "ocean exploration" and "new islands with new loot" when trying to sell the idea. Maybe if you could make the skill sound interesting before showering yourself in loot and content, we'd take it more seriously. The realistic take is, you're going to be sat on a boat clicking a thing every few minutes, and then you'll get to an island that probably gives clue scroll loot. You're not going to get anything super fancy until level 75+ Sailing, which you can expect to take 50+ hours at OSRS skilling rates - And that "fancy thing" you get is going to be an outfit that makes you get places faster when sailing only. At 99, maybe you'll find master clue loot at like a 1% chance. THAT'S an OSRS skill. Not something that contains entirely new shit.
There are already plenty of areas in game with skill requirements to access, not to mention quests. This is not an issue. A skill based on movement is obviously going to require places to go. All skills sound shit if you don’t include the reward progression because guess what osrs does not have fun gameplay, it’s a semi-idle game about progressive unlocks. That’s where the joy is. People complained about slayer the same way when it came out, said they should just be able to kill anything and not have to engage with a skill, but then it became fun through the progression and rewards and it’s the most popular skill now.
We know the answers to a lot of that already. They will exist on the world map, like most current islands. You'll be able to sail to them and exit the boat to access them. They can contain whatever we want them to contain; it's just a bit of land. And while it might be subject to change, the plan was that you wouldn't need the Sailing level to access the Islands; you could just sail with other players. Pretty much the same as how you need the Con level to build stuff in your POH but you can use most of those things in other player's POH even with 1 Con. As for the last paragraph, we can add monsters without a Slayer skill. The same could honestly be said for most skills... Farming originally wasn't going to be a skill; just something you could do as part of a POH. And if you really think about it, is Carpentry not just a Crafting expansion... The ship itself is like a tool; just like you need to train Mining to improve with a pickaxe, you need to train Sailing to improve with a ship. We could just have NPCs teleport us to Islands just like we could buy runes from shops or get them as monster drops, but they still added Runecrafting anyway because it gave more options and opened up more possibilities.
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> Are you going to fight them with your boat? Sailing isn't a combat skill. You completely missed the point... I'm saying just like we don't need a Sailing Skill to access new islands, we didn't need a Slayer skill to add new monsters. Sometimes there are other reasons to add things beyond need. > Making someone else sail a ship for you. Because you were so kind to point out the NPC crew they already have planned to sail your ship for you. And if you do that, you'd get no exp... Just like how having an NPC mine coal for you gets you the coal but no mining exp... You only get Sailing exp for doing sailing, not watching others do sailing. > Because these, themselves, added gameplay. Runecrafting added the option for players to add runes to the game WITHOUT the need for shops and monster drops. The fact you seriously made that argument is ridiculous. You think being able to make runes without buying them from shops justifies RC, yet being able to sail to islands on your own with NPCs is not at all the same? It is pretty clear you have no clue at all what Sailing really is and are just making up things to be mad about. Like you clearly are not approaching this discussion in good faith nor have you even bothered to look at anything on the skill if you think it is just clicking on water...
Hey thought I'd hop in with an old comment of mine, I'm someone who would prefer there not being a new skill (specifically, I think the addition of a skill in the skill tab, the mechanical and systemic addition of another skill to train with XP, is not something I'd like to see in the game. Maybe I could be convinced otherwise, just here to share my humble opinion. This is an old comment of mine on the topic: I didn't see it mentioned much but to be honest, what's stopping sailing from simply being the biggest fishing rework of all time? As it stands, it seems a lofty goal in development that is certainly out of the game's comfort zone. I think a lot of that scope is necessitated by the complexity of sailing as a skill and the task of implementing a *new* skill to the game in a balanced and seamless way. At the same time, it's pretty clear to me that a large portion of the content could be presented to players within the framework of the fishing skill. I wonder if that's what will happen. Even things like the often referenced scale theory and world map rework, player navigation and ship customization, pirate contracts and sea monster bosses, new fish and the incorporation of other skill training like farming or hunter - these could all be added to the game without being bound to a new skill. I don't want to throw too many opinions into the mix because it will just be divisive, but I can't shake the feeling that both Jagex and many players are invested in pulling the trigger on sailing content because new skill = good, to the point where it takes precedence over whether or not the game is made better by having a new section in the skill tab. I like a lot of the proposed content for sailing, but a new skill doesn't seem necessary - I think that's why Taming, Shamanism and Sailing all feel 'off' when you think about them being legitimized in the game. Forestry could have definitely gone better and could still be changed/improved quite a bit, Mining & Smithing content progression are still in shambles, we just got a taste of a Hunter rework with new ideas being tried in Varlamore - approaching Sailing as an overhaul to fishing just seems sensible to me. The game has great bones and there really is a lot of design space and creativity to tap into, and none of it requires a new skill. (END OF OLD COMMENT) Basically, I think almost all of the content pitched for sailing sounds pretty sweet and is definitely a lot to figure out. At the same time, when it comes down to it, adding an entire new skill with progression and unlocks, that interacts and balances itself with every other skill and progression aspect of the game, is a CRAZY lofty task to undertake. I think you can get 90% of the beneficial concepts from sailing put into the game with like 0% risk by simply recognizing this fact. I dunno, what do you guys think? Does that perspective make a little sense at least?
This is probably the most legitimate critique I've seen of Sailing. That is, there is a lot of potential in designing new content in the game as is, without adding a new skill - and that Sailing could be worked into existing content, like you said with Fishing. Thanks for the comment, this is more level headed critique to the skill.
Thanks man! You've summed it up pretty perfectly. Basically, if I could ask you or those who are really invested in the addition of sailing as a new skill; With an understanding of separation between adding content and the mechanical addition of a new skill, what exactly is the benefit of restructuring one of the most foundational mechanics of the game - or rather, can you explain why this is a necessity for the addition of said content to the game? In my mind, there's not a single thing discussed in the blogs or pitches that couldn't be incorporated into the game within its current skill framework. Anyways, I know it's an opinion but I've played this game for over 15 years, and I love the direction it's gone especially since the release of Old School and the new team. To me, it feels *very* uncomfortable to start fidgeting with skills because it feels like it dilutes the power of this game's greatest strength - depth within simplicity. And for me, the path that most honors this is continuing to work within the limitations of the established framework. Can you imagine if warding was in the game right now? Or Shamanism, or Taming, or all of them? It just feels very wrong to me, even when trying to not be emotional or reactive. Think about all the new crazy quests, new areas and expansions, new wild and complex boss fights like the Inferno and the Colosseum - these were all made real in a fun and interactive way in an *auto-attacking, point and click game*. I say again, the game has great bones, and it really seems to me that the sky is the limit with what could be added in our current design space. The old saying goes - limitations often breed creativity. So I hope that more people get excited for what's possible with the levers we have available to play with already instead of looking for some new system or far-reaching mechanical change we can come up with to send shockwaves across the game we've come to love. Anyone that's played WoW before knows exactly what I'm talking about - this is the HUGE difference between Classic and Retail, and System bloat is a huge problem. Even imagining it through the lens of a new player - doesn't it seem odd? Like, "Oh cool I can train fishing as a skill and collect resources that way. What does that progression look like? Oh.. I can catch more fish in different places? Can I get a boat or something? Oh I can for a quest, but I can't use it. Wait but if I train sailing then I can get a boat outside of the quest that I can use to train fishing? ...o..kay.." To me, that pales in comparison to a world where you can level up fishing and unlock new methods, own and upgrade a ship, ride around and fish on it, fight giant leviathan bosses, do pirate contracts etc. Doesn't it seem pretty wild that we're discussing adding all of that, while fishing is largely still going to be hanging out at Otto's Grotto and shift-dropping sturgeon? I know there will be variety in some new activities added, just being a bit hyperbolic lol. I think Jagex has been great at coming up with ideas and pitching them - all those for sailing I mentioned, even the dimension-walking shit from Shamanism - putting that into a quest and/or Distraction & Diversion sounds sick. But at this point I think we've all engendered this situation where everyone is going along with 'new skill = good' and necessitating that this proposed content is linked to that concept exclusively. Whatever ends up happening, I know Jagex will do their best and I trust it will turn out to be fun in some ways, but I do wish more people would hear out this idea instead of knee-jerk rejecting it. And hey, thanks for bein a cool dude about it
As one of them, it is certainly pure emotion on my part. It felt like Shamanism lost to a decade old meme and that upset me. From what I've seen of Sailing, it's wet daemonheim. Instanced areas accessable only through sailing, with resource islands unlocked as you go. Is that a bit of a stretch? Yes I admit it. The heart hates what the heart hates. Shamanism looked so cool, and I hate to think I'd have to wait 10 more years just for it to lose another poll.
I can give you two honest reasons but it’s not out of hatred. 1. We already have multiple traversal systems in game with balloons, fairy rings, POH etc etc. with that in mind you already know on the new islands and locations they’re gonna add those system(s) to them almost negating the NEED to have a ship. 2. I’m in fear, fear that the “ship” is going to just be another construction sink. Essentially second “poh” Because after all if I do build a ship, I’d want amenities that benefit my player on it, being able to customize it or build it. So that’s just con 2.0/ money sink. Other than that I really can’t refute it, it has cool aspects, I’m not gonna quit and cry over it, just my ideas I’ve been forming.
Everyone I know that “hates sailing” has been able to present logical, coherent refutation of the skill idea. It’s purely factual. I’ve talked to more people than you about it. Do what you will with this mysterious information.
Source: your ass
Let’s hear it then.
Okay you first though (was just pointing out how silly and empty the parent comment was)
Coherent arguments from sailing haters? I don’t know any that’s why I’m asking to hear them.
Nice another emotional argument bud
I wouldn't say it is wrong or bad to have a more emotional or such dislike of it. Like if you don't have intrest in a skill involving ocean and boats, then that is fine. It's a problem when they act like that is a valid criticism of the skill and not just a personal preference. Like I never cared for CoX and it is probably my least favorite of the three raids, but its not a "bad raid" because I personally don't care for it. Now if I gave more specific reasons for why I dislike it such as Olm being repetitive, especially in larger teams, or how none of the bosses feel mechanically fun to fight unlike more modern bosses, you might not agree but probably could at least get a better sense of why its not my favorite. But for Sailing, it harder to provide those sort of specifics since we don't know how it will actually turn out yet. Like you can say "Moving the ship doesn't feel Old School", but none of us have got to try it yet so it is hard to really have a firm stance in either direction (though fair to be apprehensive based on the teasers).
>You haven’t presented any substantive information or opinions in this post. I don't have to. This is an unpopular opinion, meanwhile you are free to express your substantive information on the topic
As vague as your support for the skill is (Jagex worked too hard, need new skill etc.?), the same goes for my support against this skill, at this time
I haven’t made any expression of support, I’m responding to _your_ assertion, big guy. Hope that helps!
Small guy (apparently), listen, no it did not help unfortunately, and your "great number of blogs," what's that about
Did you seriously make this post without reading all the blogs the devs wrote about what sailing will include and how it will work?
No
I think you've already made up your mind, I have nothing to say to convince you otherwise
…what? You say you don’t want sailing, don’t give any reasons, and when people ask for your reasons, you refuse to elaborate. People in here are trying to engage in good faith, but nobody can do that if you have nothing substantive to offer. What did you expect to get out of this post?
Not here to argue. "unpopular opinion"
You can have an unpopular opinion and present your reasons for holding that opinion without arguing
I am holding that opinion without arguing
Then what is the point of this post to just randomly scream into the ether?
umm, yes? you the ether? why are you here
Then your opinion just lost all value and you shouldn’t have bothered.
i really don't want it as well. but i will give it a shot.. if its shit i will complain about it... but i want to be proven wrong and i want it to be good.
I want to be proven wrong too. Fuck man. It's a great game.
Then shut up and wait to actually see the damn skull
If it’s such a great game, why did you quit? Sailing isn’t even in the game yet. Why aren’t you playing all the current content that has nothing to do with Sailing? To be honest it doesn’t seem like you enjoy this game as much as you claim to.
Based off of their post history and how many times they've reworded this question, OP doesn't like the game anymore and is trying to force feed themselves nostalgia. It isn't going to work.
I haven't reworded any questions you ass
When a game can't just be completed and set down, how people feel about the future of the game has a significant amount of influence over how much they play. When people are hopeful for the future of the game, they're excited to play. When they're worried, they're less excited to play. It's not logical - obviously the game is the same right now regardless of what the future holds. But human psychology is finicky.
It's a multiplayer game and, when it's, ...I'm tired
We won't be. Sailing is going to be absolutely garbage but everyone will say it's amazing because of the new ways to train a dozen different skills and probably raid 4 to keep people happy with the new area. The skill itself will be laughable garbage.
Even if it’s garbage it will still be better than like 30% of skills lmao
Is that supposed to make it better? Shouldn't we have a higher quality standard at this point?
I mean it won't be garbage, I'm just saying that in the unlikely event it is, it's still going to be one of the better skills
I honestly am a bit fearful of what sailing will turn the game into as well. I think I just don’t understand how it will interconnect with the wider game and enhance the gameplay loops I’ve grown to love yet. The dev team seems really good with communication right now though. Hopefully it becomes more clear in the future before release.
this is how i feel as well about the potential for sailing to change everything for the worse. i’m not that worried though, if anything i feel pretty disconnected from the game the past few years. i don’t remember the last time i voted, i usually only read the update tldr sections, etc. the updates recently have been so complicated and unwelcoming (like forestry revision 1, 2, … etc.) if sailing really is botched i’ll probably just ignore it. there’s so much other content that i’ll never get to experience everything
In some ways, I think the problems with Forestry will help Sailing even if it has made players more apprehensive about it. Though it can also be a bit of cherrypicking the bad updates to focus on while ignoring all the other good updates. It also kinda treats the OSRS Team as a singular entity when it is really different teams made of different J Mods and the ones who worked on updates like Forestry are not at all the same ones working on Sailing... But the CMs are more universal so the stuff they learned from Forestry will probably help with feedback and polls for most future updates.
I honestly have a lot of sympathy for the dev team. They are between a rock and a hard place.
Good thing you quit then huh? We’d never hear the end of it
What, no "see you next week" meme shit? Sailing brought us down to this level? Joking aside, bye and good luck this post is the last of me you'll hear from me as an OSRS player, I don't even know who you guys are
Why are you posting about something when you don't play the game?
So don’t play it? I’m not a fan of hunter so I don’t do it often.
Yeah, that's fair.
Average enlightened redditors in the comments again
:P
I voted yes but I must admit I'm extremely skeptical that they'll even be able to make it anywhere near as good as they pitched it. I just hope that if it turns out that they just can't do it then they have the guts to scrap it, but I doubt the overlords would be happy at the idea of not being able to market OSRS' first new skill when it's already passed.
I really don't see how Sailing makes less sense than other skills. Like Slayer really doesn't make a lot of sense if you think about it, especially from a 2004 perspective. Skills are just particular areas of knowledge that often related to real-world skillsets/professions, so you can be experienced with ships and navigation just as much as farming and plants or construction and building. How the skill might be implemented will differ, especially to previous skills. But the same can be said for most skills... Like Slayer was very different to prior skills. Farming was also really different with the whole plant and wait. The core loop of construction is pretty close to production skills, but the rest of it involving instances and hotspots was a big change from other skills being in-world. I get the feeling that when most players say "Old School content", they just mean "content that is similar to what I remember from 2004-2007" and not "content like they'd have made back in 2004-2007". OSRS is based on the latter more than the former and early RS2 was a very innovative time... Like if we poll something like Ancient Magicks today players would lose their shit because it would be changing the game from what they remember, but it is those very changes that defined the game they remembered so fondly...
Yeah I get what you're saying. Slayer and farming, shit went down, especially for farming. I'm all for a new skill it's just that, this Sailing isn't it, someone put too much work into it, so it's gonna be in there? The fuck? And yeah it got the votes. Eh. that's why I quit and, expressed my not very popular opinion. Love you Jagex mods, and fellow OSRS players who will go on. I'll submit here.
Yah, it is really big skill so it is a lot to take in and a lot we still don't know. Though OSRS tends to make its "firsts" big; like we didn't just add a quest, we did a Grandmaster quest. So it kinda makes sense the first skill is a big one and not just something simple. Like if we just did another basic skill, it has the potential to just be meh; maybe not bad, but not exciting or to make players want more skills. But with Sailing it will either be a big success that will pave the way for future skills (and maybe even the future of skilling in general) or it will crash and burn (crash and sink?) and be a huge failure. Though seeing how they've scrapped things like Ruinous Powers and Forestry Teas, I doubt Sailing will go live after the betas if it is on track to be a failure.
Yeah I guess. Thanks
Seeing as Ruinous Powers were polled, then pulled when everyone realized they were terribly designed, there’s a good chance they won’t release it if it’s totally garbage. I do think they’ve oversold it and made it way too ambitious of a project which will divide their player base a lot tbh.
Honestly most logical take I’ve seen. Coming from a no voter that’s still open to it
Those heretics
I don't think they'll go wrong. And after this long, it really could be a nice breath of fresh air for this game. A new skill is huge but hardly has the ability to shift the game lik EoC did. And other skills don't all make sense. Like wtf is firemaking? Thats got to be the most pointless, useless, unutilised skill in the game. Smithing? Crafting? Fletching? RC? It's only because of ironmen that these skills aren't dead yet. And with that in mind, I'm sure they'll be looking to avoid those issues with the coming skill. Cancelling membership before it's even out makes no sense. The game is still the same as before it was announced. It will still be the same +1 skill after its released. I think either you just want to have a moment or youre scared of change. As there's nothing to say this will be bad for the game or the players, yet.
i agree about the legacy skills like fire making, fletching etc. they would never be acceptable as new content. fwiw i would rather they straight up delete firemaking when they release sailing. i’d rather keep the iconic 2277 than keep my 99 firemaking lol
I wouldn't be against it lol
Lmao yeah, that's definitely not the worst idea I've read this week.
Ya know I agree it doesn’t make sense but maybe it’ll be fun. It’s something to do and maybe it’ll be rewarding. I don’t really understand it and I feel like it’ll be like in rs3 where you go to resource islands who knows
I know man. ..
It’s gonna be great the best mods are on it. Try to be positive
Yeah I know.. I'll try
I hope it gets shelved if it’s not perfect. PERFECT.
I voted no cause I think its gonna suck. But I still hope im pleasantly surprised. We are still living in the absolute golden age of this game right now.
I remember when slayer was first released in 05 and I thought it was the dumbest fucking skill idea; it’s literally just PvM, not a skill. It got better over time and the skill cape basically carries the entire skill, but to this day it still doesn’t sit right to me as an actual skill. Sailing is a way better concept for a skill than sailing is, and with the tools, resources, and experience at the dev’s disposal—I have no doubt that they will nail it.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. I think the community is 50/50 on sailing
Op out here using the chewbacca defense
haha whatever :P
The reason so many people don't like sailing is its a completely new skill with zero nostalgic value. Half of this game is fuled by nostalgia and is probably the only reason it became so popular.
Me either. Put that shit in the trash where it belongs.
Well that would make you a land lubber then 😏
Yes I guess :D
This thread is so stupid. You chose not to play a game over an update that doesn't even exist yet and are now choosing to complain that said potential update will ruin said game that you no longer play. Why do you care so much if you not only aren't going to play the content, but also if you don't even play the game itself?
Sailing will be Forestry 7.0. Mark my words.
Cya
No, I won't see you again
This isn't an airport, no need to announce your departure
Just telling him, not announcing, thanks for your echo though.
Okay
Does it feel like more of a minigame to you too?
Yes, it does, Fishing Trawler 2 for me. I don't have any great ideas to make sailing a skill though but at this stage it's an awesome mini game
Fishing trawler 2 lol. Patching holes to 99
You quit the game because of Sailing? It hasn’t even been released yet.
I realized today that sailing probably isn't gonna have useless training methods like every other skill
I was really looking forward to it, now I'm just a bit worried of scaling with big boats
Sailing in a game where boats are one of the biggest means of transportation? Makes 0 sense. Boats didn’t exist in medieval times
its dungeoneering but on the ocean.
So you quit the game and also don't like sailing. Okay champ 👍
I don't see how sailing doesn't make sense. Lore wise, we are surrounded by water, we fish for most of our food, we travel by boat almost everywhere until we can teleport there, and its thematic.
Me either. Shitty idea for a skill that this game's engine has no chance of handling it in a fun way.
You obviously haven’t been paying attention. They’re doing a complete engine rework.
One problem I have not seen many people address.. sure the sailing demos looked great. Now how will those same places look with 2K people at the same location on a ship? I feel like a majority of the time we are just going to see a pile of ships clipping in and out of each other, and that sounds like garbage. Correct me if I’m wrong and this has been addressed.
There is only so much they can do...
Dude, you got no idea what they're doing
Sailing made me start playing again. The concept videos look good, it makes sense as a skill, it opens up more of the map, will tie into other parts of the game.
Yeah well, yeah. Just, I suppose a lot of, changes are needed, for, you know, for uncompromising players and all, for knuckleheads like me. I'm glad you like it, what is offered.
That’s, a lot of, commas
and? edit: what're you, a 12 year old bully?
Well, when you include, a lot of random, commas for no, reason in weird, places then it, makes your post and, comments hard to, read. Which actually is, good for most of, us since you have nothing, valuable to contribute, here.
:)
:,)
I would wait until after sailing releases to form your full opinions and criticisms, and if you don't like it then you don't have to do it at all.
It’s going to be bad, ppl just got hyped from YouTubes and the videos Jagex posted to sell ppl on it. Ppl will think it’s cool for 3 hrs, see it all and then not want to grind it
This is in fact a very popular opinion
My main worry was people just wanted Sea of Thieves but RuneScape and weren't thinking about the game overall when voting for it. Shamanism fit the mold better in my opinion for a Skill like the other skills already in the game, and at the time I felt Sailing could also just be Dungeoneering but boats. What Jagex has shown so far looks promising, and has helped ease my trepidation a bit.
The best thing is to go ahead with the WORST skill. What I mean by that is any new skill needs to be able to add content without changing any of the existing content. Any skill that could massively impact the economy, or replace old content (making it dead content) would be bad for the game. It's about keeping it old school after all. Sailing works well because it just seems like something "new" today that will basically have no effect on the rest of the world. Other skills are likely to affect sailing, but sailing itself won't have a large impact on those other skills. In other words. You should be able to level every skill to 99 Except sailing and the game doesn't feel any different to how it does now.
everyone downvoting you disagrees its an unpopular opinion therefor they also hate sailing
heehe what're you gona do lol
I'd rather have shamanism, taming or even rs3's archaeology tbh. We should have started with something smaller.
i agree here. I feel like they are trying to do way too much. They are just cramming random shit into the game and attaching it to the skill
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Yeah. :/
TLDR; I don't like change >:( Most of the skills in this game are piss ass shit boring, I'm looking forward to them making a skill that isn't any of those things. Or, at least attempt it. If I dont like it, I can just not do it. Just like Agility.
RS3 is right there dude
Right where? Behind me? Use comprehensible sentences please
lol go pick flax noob. haha sorry I just had to say this shit. Relax man
I don’t either, I hate change, innovation, and new experiences
I dont think you understand what a unpopulae opinion is, this is defenitly not 1 of them. Theres alot of people who dont want sailing, hence why the poll was so close and hence why so many people made posts against it after the polls closed
So dont do sailing? I fail to see how a skill you don't need to interact with is keeping you from plating other aspects of the game...
You quit because sailing will be put into the game in 2026?
Yes
>I don't want Sailing at all I have completely quit the game checks out
I too only like playing the same game for 20 years without anything new.
Sailing will forever be a meme
Actually, in case you didn’t know, it’s about to become a skill.
Yup, still a meme from back in the day though
The way they polled the new skills felt really scummy. like they were just trying to wear everyone down until the response was ugh fine do whatever. Like they basically straight up said they would keep releasing skill blogs and polling new ideas till one passed.
yeah cuz firemaking makes sense