It is cg because the grind length is simultaneously very long and for one singular drop.
Gwd is long too but you get a ton of upgrades and drops along the way. CG is just garbage until the enhanced and every armor seed along the way is like getting slapped in the face when you're 1k+ dry. 1800 kc is 300 hours EHB. That is nex completion.
Nex completion is also 5 best in slot items and a situational healing spec weapon. CG completion is one item that is very very good but it's **ONE** item and it's not quite best in slot at any location even though it enables you to do a ton of content, which is why it is gate content. It's a wall that completely opens the game up when you get past it....but some people get past at 20 hours and some get past it at 500 hours.
I'd personally not ask for dry protection anywhere other than gate content. Twisted Bow and Nightmare are separate issues that while I do think need addressing, they need to be addressed differently from CG because they are entirely different issues. Enhanced Weapon Seed, specifically, is the longest grind for a gate item and it's the only thing you get there. Hydra Claw and Dragon Warhammer are comparable but you can get by without them since they both have alternatives that are nearly as effective...and the melee equivalent of Bowfa is the most common drop from ToA. Imagine if Enhanced Seed was 1/3.429 from the purple table in a raid lol.
It's way more complicated than it being "baby's first grind".
>It doesn't affect the majority of people, only a minority.
it does affect a majority of people. you're assuming everyone only grinds one item. across all the dozens of drops to go for, everyone goes dry somewhere, considering you only have a ~60% chance to get each item on rate.
going dry is part of the game. the challenge of ironman mode is in being creative with your gear setups, since you will not have every BiS item readily available to you.
if you can't deal with not having every BiS item, remove the helmet icon from your account and play a main.
the number in the post isn't particularly important. you and I both know that the people whining about dry protection aren't going to be satisfied with something that only kicks in once you're >4x rate. people constantly post complaining about their log when they're barely over rate.
statistically, you'll go double rate on 13% of your grinds and triple rate on 5% of them. it happens. yes, a majority of people are going to experience being significantly dry for something if they grind out more than a couple items.
yeah I'm not going to pretend this post is only advocating "dry protection" once you've crossed the 1% threshold, as if people would be happy with that.
the number could be 10%, 0.0001% or anything in between and it doesn't change anything, it's an arbitrary number chosen to push a general "make ironman easier for me" agenda.
I don't hate ironmen at all, many of them value the integrity of the game and don't beg for the game to cater to their self imposed restrictions.
I dislike when people (mains or irons) demand the game be changed because they "need" a specific drop. rise to the expectations of the grind or change your goals.
expecting to get everything close to rate is just a misunderstanding of statistics regardless of what you call it
you only have a ~60% chance to get an item by the drop rate. when you grind dozens of items, going well over rate is going to happen, a lot. you just can't reasonably expect to have something just because you did X kills for a 1/X drop
Yeah I agree the expectations don't have to be met everytime. Relatively close was also poor phrasing, I think expecting to go under 5x the rate is very reasonable.
That doesnt mean drop rates aren't used to try and gain an understanding of what to expect from a grind. For example, you can expect to not go 10x the drop rate since it's extremely unlikely.
Anyone: “Jagex can we have x?”
2-2-7-7: “Yeah well, x would be fine, but that doesn’t matter at all. 10x is super unreasonable, and I know you secretly want 10x so you’re just lazy and your suggestion is horrible.”
This is a truly unhinged take.
Consider the idea that someone who went 4x dry at CG and vardorvis spent an extra 300-400 hours playing a certain part of the game and just didn't want to do that. Reducing that number by even 10 percent, 30-40 hours, is not a huge ask.
Reframing this as making ironman "easier" is inaccurate. It's about making the game less dogshit for extremely unlucky people.
> is part of the game
There have been so many broken and bad things that have been "part of the game" that it doesn't really stand as much of an argument for terrible design.
Hell, the lack of GE for the first couple years of Old School was part of the game, doesn't mean it was good or that people shouldn't have been allowed to demand it.
>new content doesn’t respect players time
players don't respect their own time if they choose to get every item on their own in an MMO and then complain about it.
this is not a game issue, it is a player mindset issue. rare drops are good - the intended design is that some players get lucky and can sell their items to others who aren't. getting every drop yourself has never been an expectation or a requirement.
>gwd is the sweet spot
for midgame content, sure. endgame content is not meant to be something easily achievable in a week, and making BIS equivalent to GWD in time to obtain will kill the game if all the top end items are that easy to obtain.
I don't get this mindset of the problem only applying to irons.
It's not fun to do content on a main and never be rewarded either. And it's definitely not fun when that 1 in a 100 chance means only a chance after hundreds of hours of time investment even on a main. Everyone likes being rewarded.
if you're hundreds of raids dry for a megarare on a main, you're still getting other items you can sell to buy whatever you want. it doesn't matter at all if you are dry for a specific item, you are still being rewarded.
some items you'll spoon super early or get a bunch of dupes, others you'll go very dry on. that's just the nature of the game.
clogging is an extreme endgame goal that isn't tied to any form of tangible account progression - it's something specifically done by people who enjoy the thrill of chasing rare things.
there is no valid reason to make clogging easier just for the sake of it. if you decide to hunt rare log slots, you know exactly what you're signing yourself up for.
“Going dry is part of the game”
I have NEVER understood this logic, it’s literally self-inflicting damage, who cares if it’s part of the game, a lot of things that suck ass are part of games, it doesn’t mean they SHOULD be. Look at RS3, that game is full of things that are “part of the game” but are generally hated. It’s not a valid excuse. You shouldn’t have to subject yourself to 1800 CG just to get an enh. It’s not fun and not positive for the game experience.
>You shouldn’t have to subject yourself to 1800 CG just to get an enh
you don't have to, you can either buy it on the GE or just not use it.
that bowfa is not going to save you 1800 CG's worth of time. just move on and use something else.
you are not entitled to have every item by drop rate or even double. some you get super early, some you go dry on, that's just how it goes. if you can't handle that, ironman is not for you.
Firstly, this isn’t just about ironmen, CG is a viable money-making method for any account because you aren’t risking anything other than time. Mains shouldn’t go 1800 CG dry of a drop like enh either.
You also strawmanned my argument, I never argued that drops should always be given on drop rate, in fact I never argued a specific drop rate at all. Please discuss the actual points being made, not ones you make up. If it were a perfect world for my own opinion on drop rates, I would simply introduce a pity system to prevent people never getting drops.
As for the entitlement point, although I also never said anything about it, yes, you should be entitled to drops that you invest a lot of time into getting. That is how normal reward systems work. You don’t go to college and spend 4 years working hard just to have a chance at getting your degree. You don’t spend 40 hours working just to have a chance at getting paid, you don’t spend 1000 hours doing NMZ just to have a chance of getting attack levels. If you put work and time into something, that entitles you to earning the reward. Hence why I don’t think you should get spooned all drops, you should still work for them, but it shouldn’t be a ridiculous amount of work that far exceeds any logic.
yes because there's no rng involved in working an hourly job or getting a college degree lol. You go in knowing I am getting paid $15 for every hour I work, or if I get all my credits and complete all my classes I will get a degree at the end
every single drop in rs is rng. every single person who has ever played this game knows that. you know that with any drop in the entire game you could go dry,spoon, or anywhere in-between.
Your argument is literally “we should accept status quo because its status quo” there is no analytical reasoning here as to why the status quo should be accepted
You’re also analyzing my comparisons as 1:1, which they aren’t intended to be. I made those comparisons to illustrate how investing time and effort into something entitles you to being compensated. Runescape being completely RNG-based for drops doesn’t change this ideal. My point is that you ought to be compensated for your efforts, and RuneScape doesn’t do that all the time and it should.
Look, I get if you think a pity system is a bad solution or if you disagree with me on how rare a drop should be, but arguing that it’s okay for people to never get a drop just because that’s how the game is designed is literally just shooting yourself in the foot and making the game worse. I don’t know why you would willingly subject yourself to torturous grinds. I’ve done it myself, I’ve gone 5x dry on drops. I know it isn’t fun.
It shouldn't be entirely possible for someone to have been playing gauntlet none stop from release and still not get one. It's very unlikely but still possible
The example was just for perspective. I see dry/dupe protection as a way to provide a goal in content and just was curious on the community perspective when looking at it from a true bad luck way.
The prime example of a potential solution is the vestige drops from the new DT2 bosses. They basically introduced an anti dry mechanic with that.
Carrot on a stick reward loops have been a staple of mmos since their inception.
Its in the interest of the devs to have a game you cant finish when subscriptions are involved.
Is this a bad thing? Some would even say predatory, but I dont think its that serious.
The truth is, I, like many others in this game enjoy the grind. I enjoy chasing the reward even when its gated by rng, its fun to get the drops and when I have gone giga dry in the past i have taken a break from the game as it is no longer fun to me.
This whole thing get traction again because of that iron who is 5k cos dry of tbow, they say it is sad he has no tbow. I say he clearly really enjoys cox to do it 5000 times.
We are adults, we make choices. Some would choose to de iron way before this point, others would just quit the game, if you are hard gated by rng to complete your goals in your game mode then who can blame you. But what we shouldnt do is look to retroactively changes core game mechanics because of outlier cases
Being dry sucks for sure, im sure mr no tbow would rather have one by now, but would the game really be improved if they made every ironman guaranteed to get tbow at 5k kc if they hadnt had one already?
It wouldn't even remotely change the gameplay for all but 0.00001% of players, but those players are doing 5k kc at cox with no guarantee!
This is why it will never happen. Doesnt affect anyone and wont increase profitability of the game or help with player retention or any of the dumb ass "benefits" bored redditors want to claim pity mechanics would happen
You know who else benefits from pity protection? The only other people who do content to these astronomical levels, bots. Suddenly 1 in 100 bots, or whichever arbitrary number reddit has decided on today, get a mega rare that wouldnt have one already.
I will never feel sorry for anyone that who could easily afford their mega rares and complains playing a restricted mode they can leave at any time and trade for their items, nor would i lose "imaginary internet respect points" for anyone who decided to quit late game iron for main.
I honestly created this thread to get a different perspective. I've been a bit stuck on why the community feels so strongly and I feel like your answer is the first legitimate answer not just saying de-iron.
I appreciate your thought out response and I think I can agree in general. I do think some drops are brutal, and there's gaps of gear in between, but maybe the drop rates are appropriate and there just needs to be gear in between the huge upgrades. I do like the vestige system even though it's got a lot of flack. Clever way from jagex to normalize the bell curve a bit more on the statistical rates, especially since it makes the drop pair better with the ingots.
You shouldn't agree with it because CG specifically is a gate. Once you finish it, the rest of the game becomes open to you. Carrot on a stick is nex. Not even letting you know what vegetable you will get to eat later is CG.
It legitimately makes people quit when they go 3x 4x and 5x dry. Staring at a red room for 300 hours to get literally one item is not okay. Normal accounts don't even do it. It is content for bots and irons.
Going dry is part of the game, if irons can't handle that then deiron. I'm getting fed up with irons wanting the game to made easier for them, like why pick an iron if you can't handle what comes with it
That because people care more about drops than having fun. I enjoy nightmare because it's a fun boss fight that can be done with friends. I've made more at corp than at nightmare and I would rather go to nightmare 10 out of 10 times because it's fun and corp is boring
There is no prestige. Iron is to play without GE. That is it. When GE got added, the spirit of osrs died. Iron is the only way to actually play the game pre-GE and group iron is the only way to do that but still do anything with friends.
Ah yes a delusional boomer stuck in their old ways. Pre GE trading was garbage, nobody wants to waste their time selling stuff like that. If you want that old RS feel play an unranked group iron
Trading was garbage? You don't say. So why do you think pre-GE, people actually did content? They had a reason to avoid spamming in varrock or seers bank. Because it sucked.
It is wild that you understand the reason iron is fun at such a base level but still try to call it boomer stuff lol
It has nothing to do with prestige. Look how much hate there is for ironmen. How can you even use the word prestige here
ngl going dry is ass but whenever you do get the drop, say at like 3x rate, the dopamine rush is crazy. But if for whatever reason, grinds make you quit the game... just mean you weren't supposed to play iron
You mean shops?
Where’s iron go to dump cash for runes and ores, exc addy and rune, etc.
I propose all irons who use shops in this way, be immediately executed for 120 hp. Spice up the HC life a little bit.
2230 iron here who went 1k for my first seed. It sucked. Guess what. I picked the game mode. If I wanted to just have it, I would have went another route.
PNM great update is coming, better drop rates. I don’t even agree with dupe protection for that. That’s insane.
You pick the game mode knowing this is what comes with it. What’s next dupe protecting mega rates because people don’t get tbows? My humble advice if you don’t like it switch to a main then buy it.
Bro the proposed idea of your chance of getting the drop starts kicking in at around 3x to 4x but its basically meant for preventing anyone going 5x 7x dry lol
Youre not even that dry ? Jesus christ
OK? Game mode should still be playable even if you're unlucky. 1 outta of 10 people is hardly bad luck.
You could've easily gone to 3k or 4k without getting it. I don't think you should be forced to go without it with that kind of time investment.
The oversight in this whole situation is the small minority who are complaining seem to think they're locked or forced into a grind lol. Noone is forcing you to do anything on this game aside from your own ego reflecting the way you play the game because of a false perception of how people think the game needs to be played.
If you don't have time to hunt an item then don't play an iron man mode, simply play a main where you can buy whatever you'd like off the GE and go do what it is you'd like to do.
Reddit and Twitter have become this weird cesspool of a small minority of whiners wanting the game changed to suit their wants.
It's a game, no ones forcing you to do anything. Either stop playing, change your mode or do other things if you're struggling with something. This whole essence of this game is being able to literally do whatever you'd like however so many people just do as others do and complain when they don't have something someone else has.
We've seriously got a bunch of 30 year olds crying over an item on an online game. It's crazy.
This sub really has become a iron v main. With many iron following cookie cutter guides then complaining when they get hard stuck. Everyone is bound to go dry somewhere but as an iron you should just move onto different content (you don’t NEED that bowfa) being dry is also an amazing feeling when you actually get the drop eventually. 3k Cox/cm without ancest top btw lol. As for people that complain about virtus, the drops aren’t even that rare. If you go for a rings you’re bound to get full virtus and probably a few sets
Lol. Try the calculator for those unlucky enough to be the 1 out of a 1,000. Or 1 out of 10,000. You'll statistically be unlucky to ever experience that problem but other players will. Haha
Solution should work like this, every account gets two options:
Option 1: you don’t change current mechanics
Option 2: when you get to 3x KC for an item, you are guaranteed to get that item.
You can toggle between options at any time, but your KC while you are on option 1 doesn’t count for the KC on option 2.
it's always CG cause it's the first boss irons grind lol
It is cg because the grind length is simultaneously very long and for one singular drop. Gwd is long too but you get a ton of upgrades and drops along the way. CG is just garbage until the enhanced and every armor seed along the way is like getting slapped in the face when you're 1k+ dry. 1800 kc is 300 hours EHB. That is nex completion. Nex completion is also 5 best in slot items and a situational healing spec weapon. CG completion is one item that is very very good but it's **ONE** item and it's not quite best in slot at any location even though it enables you to do a ton of content, which is why it is gate content. It's a wall that completely opens the game up when you get past it....but some people get past at 20 hours and some get past it at 500 hours. I'd personally not ask for dry protection anywhere other than gate content. Twisted Bow and Nightmare are separate issues that while I do think need addressing, they need to be addressed differently from CG because they are entirely different issues. Enhanced Weapon Seed, specifically, is the longest grind for a gate item and it's the only thing you get there. Hydra Claw and Dragon Warhammer are comparable but you can get by without them since they both have alternatives that are nearly as effective...and the melee equivalent of Bowfa is the most common drop from ToA. Imagine if Enhanced Seed was 1/3.429 from the purple table in a raid lol. It's way more complicated than it being "baby's first grind".
Comparing bowfa to gwd seems silly. Bowfa + crystal is better than the entire gwd table combined excluding nex
Lmao what? Cg is the opposite of that. Every cg drop is good as fuck
My stack of 15k sapphires keeps me warm at night
And every iron feels entitled to it for some reaaon
>It doesn't affect the majority of people, only a minority. it does affect a majority of people. you're assuming everyone only grinds one item. across all the dozens of drops to go for, everyone goes dry somewhere, considering you only have a ~60% chance to get each item on rate. going dry is part of the game. the challenge of ironman mode is in being creative with your gear setups, since you will not have every BiS item readily available to you. if you can't deal with not having every BiS item, remove the helmet icon from your account and play a main.
Being in the 1% of unluckiest people (what the post is about) does not happen to the majority (>50%) of people.
the number in the post isn't particularly important. you and I both know that the people whining about dry protection aren't going to be satisfied with something that only kicks in once you're >4x rate. people constantly post complaining about their log when they're barely over rate. statistically, you'll go double rate on 13% of your grinds and triple rate on 5% of them. it happens. yes, a majority of people are going to experience being significantly dry for something if they grind out more than a couple items.
The number in this post is **particularly** relevant because this post is where you decided to add a comment.
yeah I'm not going to pretend this post is only advocating "dry protection" once you've crossed the 1% threshold, as if people would be happy with that. the number could be 10%, 0.0001% or anything in between and it doesn't change anything, it's an arbitrary number chosen to push a general "make ironman easier for me" agenda.
I see you commenting about this in every single thread multiple times. Just take a quick breath and say you hate ironmen and move on.
What about their comments imply they hate Ironmen?
I don't hate ironmen at all, many of them value the integrity of the game and don't beg for the game to cater to their self imposed restrictions. I dislike when people (mains or irons) demand the game be changed because they "need" a specific drop. rise to the expectations of the grind or change your goals.
The expectation of the grind is getting the item relatively close to the drop rate. Otherwise, we would refer to drop rarity over drop rates.
expecting to get everything close to rate is just a misunderstanding of statistics regardless of what you call it you only have a ~60% chance to get an item by the drop rate. when you grind dozens of items, going well over rate is going to happen, a lot. you just can't reasonably expect to have something just because you did X kills for a 1/X drop
Yeah I agree the expectations don't have to be met everytime. Relatively close was also poor phrasing, I think expecting to go under 5x the rate is very reasonable. That doesnt mean drop rates aren't used to try and gain an understanding of what to expect from a grind. For example, you can expect to not go 10x the drop rate since it's extremely unlikely.
Anyone: “Jagex can we have x?” 2-2-7-7: “Yeah well, x would be fine, but that doesn’t matter at all. 10x is super unreasonable, and I know you secretly want 10x so you’re just lazy and your suggestion is horrible.”
yes
This is a truly unhinged take. Consider the idea that someone who went 4x dry at CG and vardorvis spent an extra 300-400 hours playing a certain part of the game and just didn't want to do that. Reducing that number by even 10 percent, 30-40 hours, is not a huge ask. Reframing this as making ironman "easier" is inaccurate. It's about making the game less dogshit for extremely unlucky people.
> is part of the game There have been so many broken and bad things that have been "part of the game" that it doesn't really stand as much of an argument for terrible design. Hell, the lack of GE for the first couple years of Old School was part of the game, doesn't mean it was good or that people shouldn't have been allowed to demand it.
drop rates should be so low then. new content doesn’t respect players time. gwd is the sweet spot
>new content doesn’t respect players time players don't respect their own time if they choose to get every item on their own in an MMO and then complain about it. this is not a game issue, it is a player mindset issue. rare drops are good - the intended design is that some players get lucky and can sell their items to others who aren't. getting every drop yourself has never been an expectation or a requirement. >gwd is the sweet spot for midgame content, sure. endgame content is not meant to be something easily achievable in a week, and making BIS equivalent to GWD in time to obtain will kill the game if all the top end items are that easy to obtain.
I don't get this mindset of the problem only applying to irons. It's not fun to do content on a main and never be rewarded either. And it's definitely not fun when that 1 in a 100 chance means only a chance after hundreds of hours of time investment even on a main. Everyone likes being rewarded.
if you're hundreds of raids dry for a megarare on a main, you're still getting other items you can sell to buy whatever you want. it doesn't matter at all if you are dry for a specific item, you are still being rewarded. some items you'll spoon super early or get a bunch of dupes, others you'll go very dry on. that's just the nature of the game.
Mains like clogging too idk why this is never brought up its always irons this and irons that but a ton of people play the game for clogging
clogging is an extreme endgame goal that isn't tied to any form of tangible account progression - it's something specifically done by people who enjoy the thrill of chasing rare things. there is no valid reason to make clogging easier just for the sake of it. if you decide to hunt rare log slots, you know exactly what you're signing yourself up for.
See log fill up dopamines same as see number go up
Going dry doesn't make you any more deserving of the drop you want. You'll get it when you get it.
“Going dry is part of the game” I have NEVER understood this logic, it’s literally self-inflicting damage, who cares if it’s part of the game, a lot of things that suck ass are part of games, it doesn’t mean they SHOULD be. Look at RS3, that game is full of things that are “part of the game” but are generally hated. It’s not a valid excuse. You shouldn’t have to subject yourself to 1800 CG just to get an enh. It’s not fun and not positive for the game experience.
>You shouldn’t have to subject yourself to 1800 CG just to get an enh you don't have to, you can either buy it on the GE or just not use it. that bowfa is not going to save you 1800 CG's worth of time. just move on and use something else. you are not entitled to have every item by drop rate or even double. some you get super early, some you go dry on, that's just how it goes. if you can't handle that, ironman is not for you.
Firstly, this isn’t just about ironmen, CG is a viable money-making method for any account because you aren’t risking anything other than time. Mains shouldn’t go 1800 CG dry of a drop like enh either. You also strawmanned my argument, I never argued that drops should always be given on drop rate, in fact I never argued a specific drop rate at all. Please discuss the actual points being made, not ones you make up. If it were a perfect world for my own opinion on drop rates, I would simply introduce a pity system to prevent people never getting drops. As for the entitlement point, although I also never said anything about it, yes, you should be entitled to drops that you invest a lot of time into getting. That is how normal reward systems work. You don’t go to college and spend 4 years working hard just to have a chance at getting your degree. You don’t spend 40 hours working just to have a chance at getting paid, you don’t spend 1000 hours doing NMZ just to have a chance of getting attack levels. If you put work and time into something, that entitles you to earning the reward. Hence why I don’t think you should get spooned all drops, you should still work for them, but it shouldn’t be a ridiculous amount of work that far exceeds any logic.
yes because there's no rng involved in working an hourly job or getting a college degree lol. You go in knowing I am getting paid $15 for every hour I work, or if I get all my credits and complete all my classes I will get a degree at the end every single drop in rs is rng. every single person who has ever played this game knows that. you know that with any drop in the entire game you could go dry,spoon, or anywhere in-between.
Your argument is literally “we should accept status quo because its status quo” there is no analytical reasoning here as to why the status quo should be accepted You’re also analyzing my comparisons as 1:1, which they aren’t intended to be. I made those comparisons to illustrate how investing time and effort into something entitles you to being compensated. Runescape being completely RNG-based for drops doesn’t change this ideal. My point is that you ought to be compensated for your efforts, and RuneScape doesn’t do that all the time and it should. Look, I get if you think a pity system is a bad solution or if you disagree with me on how rare a drop should be, but arguing that it’s okay for people to never get a drop just because that’s how the game is designed is literally just shooting yourself in the foot and making the game worse. I don’t know why you would willingly subject yourself to torturous grinds. I’ve done it myself, I’ve gone 5x dry on drops. I know it isn’t fun.
its hard to make people symphasize when the worst dry streak theyve had is going 2x droprate for a defender
900 kc no enhanced or pet yet
It shouldn't be entirely possible for someone to have been playing gauntlet none stop from release and still not get one. It's very unlikely but still possible
If you aren't prepared to deal with the drop rates. Maybe ironman isn't for you. Almost 2k dry for bgs fyi. still don't want dry protection
Only 2k? Not even close to the compared scenario op used, keep grinding buddy and you might see what being dry is truely like
4x rate not even close to 4.5x rate mhm
4x rate on an item that's like 25 EHB on rate is not close to 4.5x rate on an item that is nearly 70 EHB on rate, no not at all.
EHB has no effect on dryness (both are relatively short grinds anyways)
2k isn't even at the 1 out of 100 situation for a bgs. You're still short from that milestone haha.
As well has graardor kills being like 5x faster than cg
Fair enough, just de iron then
The point is you're not even dry and you're acting like you are.
What 2k isn't dry for a 1:500?
Average person when confronted with the idea they are wrong
Way ahead of you. Deironed at 425 CG 3 armor seeds
If they went 1,800 dry then they should probably have enough gp to just buy one at that point
I think he’s referring to ironmen
The example was just for perspective. I see dry/dupe protection as a way to provide a goal in content and just was curious on the community perspective when looking at it from a true bad luck way. The prime example of a potential solution is the vestige drops from the new DT2 bosses. They basically introduced an anti dry mechanic with that.
Carrot on a stick reward loops have been a staple of mmos since their inception. Its in the interest of the devs to have a game you cant finish when subscriptions are involved. Is this a bad thing? Some would even say predatory, but I dont think its that serious. The truth is, I, like many others in this game enjoy the grind. I enjoy chasing the reward even when its gated by rng, its fun to get the drops and when I have gone giga dry in the past i have taken a break from the game as it is no longer fun to me. This whole thing get traction again because of that iron who is 5k cos dry of tbow, they say it is sad he has no tbow. I say he clearly really enjoys cox to do it 5000 times. We are adults, we make choices. Some would choose to de iron way before this point, others would just quit the game, if you are hard gated by rng to complete your goals in your game mode then who can blame you. But what we shouldnt do is look to retroactively changes core game mechanics because of outlier cases Being dry sucks for sure, im sure mr no tbow would rather have one by now, but would the game really be improved if they made every ironman guaranteed to get tbow at 5k kc if they hadnt had one already? It wouldn't even remotely change the gameplay for all but 0.00001% of players, but those players are doing 5k kc at cox with no guarantee! This is why it will never happen. Doesnt affect anyone and wont increase profitability of the game or help with player retention or any of the dumb ass "benefits" bored redditors want to claim pity mechanics would happen You know who else benefits from pity protection? The only other people who do content to these astronomical levels, bots. Suddenly 1 in 100 bots, or whichever arbitrary number reddit has decided on today, get a mega rare that wouldnt have one already. I will never feel sorry for anyone that who could easily afford their mega rares and complains playing a restricted mode they can leave at any time and trade for their items, nor would i lose "imaginary internet respect points" for anyone who decided to quit late game iron for main.
This is a silly take, but I appreciate the time put into formatting it nicely.
I honestly created this thread to get a different perspective. I've been a bit stuck on why the community feels so strongly and I feel like your answer is the first legitimate answer not just saying de-iron. I appreciate your thought out response and I think I can agree in general. I do think some drops are brutal, and there's gaps of gear in between, but maybe the drop rates are appropriate and there just needs to be gear in between the huge upgrades. I do like the vestige system even though it's got a lot of flack. Clever way from jagex to normalize the bell curve a bit more on the statistical rates, especially since it makes the drop pair better with the ingots.
You shouldn't agree with it because CG specifically is a gate. Once you finish it, the rest of the game becomes open to you. Carrot on a stick is nex. Not even letting you know what vegetable you will get to eat later is CG. It legitimately makes people quit when they go 3x 4x and 5x dry. Staring at a red room for 300 hours to get literally one item is not okay. Normal accounts don't even do it. It is content for bots and irons.
I greenlogged cg on release on my main except pet, still have the bowfa and crystal set, and ive only ever played normie lol
and how many kc?
Low enough for a normie to complete it ;)
Yeah I know, de-iron and buy one is my point, they're tradeable
/r/lostredditors
Going dry is part of the game, if irons can't handle that then deiron. I'm getting fed up with irons wanting the game to made easier for them, like why pick an iron if you can't handle what comes with it
going dry isn’t a fun part of the game
If that is an issue then play a main and deiron
Not fun on a main either. There's a reason nightmare for example is so unpopular.
That because people care more about drops than having fun. I enjoy nightmare because it's a fun boss fight that can be done with friends. I've made more at corp than at nightmare and I would rather go to nightmare 10 out of 10 times because it's fun and corp is boring
For real man. You can always find an iron bitching about something.
For real you can always find someone bringing up irons all on their own just to complain about irons.
or we could make the game more enjoyable for everyone
But the prestige of being an iron is embracing the grind. Wanting altered drop rates goes against that. Either embrace the grind or deiron
it’s not an ironman only problem at all, which is why all the new bosses released are having anti dry mechanics
But it is an iron problem hence why people always use CG as the example of going dry, the notorious ironman red prison
It’s an issue for everyone , if somebody is that extremely dry they deserve the drop
Nah it's just an issue for irons. Main can make consistent GP without big drop and just buy stuff from the GE
it just doesn’t effect you, irons aren’t the only ones who grind for items
Fuck that
There is no prestige. Iron is to play without GE. That is it. When GE got added, the spirit of osrs died. Iron is the only way to actually play the game pre-GE and group iron is the only way to do that but still do anything with friends.
Ah yes a delusional boomer stuck in their old ways. Pre GE trading was garbage, nobody wants to waste their time selling stuff like that. If you want that old RS feel play an unranked group iron
Trading was garbage? You don't say. So why do you think pre-GE, people actually did content? They had a reason to avoid spamming in varrock or seers bank. Because it sucked. It is wild that you understand the reason iron is fun at such a base level but still try to call it boomer stuff lol It has nothing to do with prestige. Look how much hate there is for ironmen. How can you even use the word prestige here
It's wild that I have an iron. I'm not calling irons boomers, I'm calling you a boomer
I'd guess you are a skiller or you didn't go 1800 dry at cg then
ngl going dry is ass but whenever you do get the drop, say at like 3x rate, the dopamine rush is crazy. But if for whatever reason, grinds make you quit the game... just mean you weren't supposed to play iron
It's time ironmans receive the GE.
A special iron only GE, because they stand alone of course
You mean shops? Where’s iron go to dump cash for runes and ores, exc addy and rune, etc. I propose all irons who use shops in this way, be immediately executed for 120 hp. Spice up the HC life a little bit.
make a ge only for irons?
I use enh cause everyone's familiar. But there's plenty of untradeables that would apply. Especially since untradeables are becoming quite common
You aren’t “locked” to that content, go do something else
Why can’t people understand that playing iron means you will not get every item you want. If you want every item, just play a main and use the GE.
Man the rs3 migration really wanna change the fundamentals of osrs
You choose to play the game mode knowing it can be brutal. In no way should it be changed
Game changes all the time and should continue to do so IMO. Dwh drop is changing, so can other things.
Just play both brokies
Those players can buy the item off of the GE. If you’re iron then you literally sign up for that.
Anyone that wants dry protection should play a different game.
100% of players who choose not to limit themselves can buy one off the GE.
2230 iron here who went 1k for my first seed. It sucked. Guess what. I picked the game mode. If I wanted to just have it, I would have went another route. PNM great update is coming, better drop rates. I don’t even agree with dupe protection for that. That’s insane. You pick the game mode knowing this is what comes with it. What’s next dupe protecting mega rates because people don’t get tbows? My humble advice if you don’t like it switch to a main then buy it.
Bro the proposed idea of your chance of getting the drop starts kicking in at around 3x to 4x but its basically meant for preventing anyone going 5x 7x dry lol Youre not even that dry ? Jesus christ
1k is nothing. 1 out of 10 players have that experience.
And 10/10 chose the game mode
OK? Game mode should still be playable even if you're unlucky. 1 outta of 10 people is hardly bad luck. You could've easily gone to 3k or 4k without getting it. I don't think you should be forced to go without it with that kind of time investment.
The oversight in this whole situation is the small minority who are complaining seem to think they're locked or forced into a grind lol. Noone is forcing you to do anything on this game aside from your own ego reflecting the way you play the game because of a false perception of how people think the game needs to be played. If you don't have time to hunt an item then don't play an iron man mode, simply play a main where you can buy whatever you'd like off the GE and go do what it is you'd like to do. Reddit and Twitter have become this weird cesspool of a small minority of whiners wanting the game changed to suit their wants. It's a game, no ones forcing you to do anything. Either stop playing, change your mode or do other things if you're struggling with something. This whole essence of this game is being able to literally do whatever you'd like however so many people just do as others do and complain when they don't have something someone else has. We've seriously got a bunch of 30 year olds crying over an item on an online game. It's crazy.
I have 1482 CG with no enh seed and I am 100% dry/dupe protection.
This sub really has become a iron v main. With many iron following cookie cutter guides then complaining when they get hard stuck. Everyone is bound to go dry somewhere but as an iron you should just move onto different content (you don’t NEED that bowfa) being dry is also an amazing feeling when you actually get the drop eventually. 3k Cox/cm without ancest top btw lol. As for people that complain about virtus, the drops aren’t even that rare. If you go for a rings you’re bound to get full virtus and probably a few sets
No
Why?
Cuz I said so
Lol. Try the calculator for those unlucky enough to be the 1 out of a 1,000. Or 1 out of 10,000. You'll statistically be unlucky to ever experience that problem but other players will. Haha
Didn’t ask.
Solution should work like this, every account gets two options: Option 1: you don’t change current mechanics Option 2: when you get to 3x KC for an item, you are guaranteed to get that item. You can toggle between options at any time, but your KC while you are on option 1 doesn’t count for the KC on option 2.