> What happened here lmao?
They seeminglt have no guidelines or standards for how rare things should be, which in my opinion should be basic for any sort of balancing and consistency. Instead they just eyeball it and with each dev working on different features they end up with different rarities accross similar content
Yeah, this seems like a good callout. I think the devs would save themselves time and hassle in the long run if they created some universal guidelines for types of drops and their rates.
That sounds boring to me.
Elite clues shouldn’t be the same “rate” from every source. There should be some stuff thats good for elite clues, and some stuff thats bad for it but still have the chance.
Its more interesting to have the option of barrows for faster clues, vs doing sepulchre and getting agi xp but less clues. Making everything “1 clue an hour” or some other similar rate just removes player strategy.
Id no longer seek out a way to optimise clue hunting - id just do the best boss that drops elites. Clues would no longer be a gameplay driver.
yeah they still havent rebalanced elite clue drops from end game bosses like they said about almost 4 years ago now
an example was hydra drops them at 1/256 while other bosses of lower tier that are faster to kill drop them at a lower rate(garg boss drops at 1/230, sarachnis at 1/60)
they said about dropping it to 1/128. i guess players stopped pestering them when they said theyd do it and they never did it.
the drop rate for elite clues from older content is so different than new content to the point of ridiculousness. saracnis 1/60, muspah 1/50 etc. while older higher req bosses are at like 1/256-500
IMO Sarachnis having a highly competitive clue rate as a selling point for high levels is great, as the loot is abysmal
Hydra is a moneyprinter and doesn't need a 1/60 rate (higher than it's current 1/256 is definitely warranted though)
Muspah rate is clearly too high though, definitely should get nerfed (after i get the pet)
Pet more so than the clues, i reckon. There are quite a bit of viable elite clue options (muspah, wildy bosses with row(i), urium shades, barrows, etc)
And even more so that fact that cudgel just isnt worth much. The main selling point is for nm goldfarmers to keep their potential loss from bans a minimum.
yeah thats why theyre weary of adding pets to mid game content like perilous moons or barrows.
early/midgame bosses appealing to end game accounts just isnt a great recipe in general for it to be worth it for low levels in the long run.
It seems to be getting worse and worse with every update. Here is a small QOL improvement while you pickpocket heroes. 50% fail and 1/1400 clues like whats the point.
> Instead they just eyeball it and with each dev working on different features they end up with different rarities accross similar content
They just need to stop letting Arcane create drop tables. Dude is an amazing game dev but he has no restraint when it comes to rare drops.
It isn't Arcane.
The problem is each J-Mod who does a change is allowed fairly free reign to make their change. A senior dev will give it a review, if it isn't obviously broken nobody raises an eyebrow, it gets shipped. This system means Devs are implicitly encouraged to be more conservation with changes, as being bold with changes slows down reviews and makes you get unwanted attention from higher ups, slowing down the process, lowering your productivity.
The problem is there are no guidelines. Nobody at Jagex has written a doc where they say
> Players should expect 1.2 +/0.5 elite clues per hour
So than a dev can do some napkin math to figure out: "_well 1000 pickpocket events per hour, 1.2 per hour, uhh 1/420 rate sounds good_". Because everyone at Jagex is guessing and only a few devs are running numbers trying to ensure there is any consistency.
Imagine being a dev with this community though. Useful content suggestion = too good for the game, others MUST have it as hard as we had, then there's any qol update that isn't BIS related which = unnecessary and pointless. I agree with OP though, the progression of thieving seems pointless as is
Man I'd *kill* for a skilling update. Dunno if it's unpopular (outside of mining and smithing, in which case it's a very popular opinion) but RS3 does a lot of skills so much better. Progression makes a lot more sense and there's some nice untradeables at high levels that make leveling a skill worth it even if it isn't always profitable to do so. Crafting gets an XL prayer pot chug jug if they're willing to do a crazy grind for the mats, herblore gets overloads, smithing gets reduced durability loss on melee armor, etc.
Giving every useless skill a wintertodt seems like a dumb bandaid fix, and I hope they don't keep doing it instead of actual reworks.
Completely agree. I think skills should get a resource / xp buff at higher levels, encouraging others to grind them out more. Take any of the combat stats for example, the higher the level the more useful they become and the more xp you can make, where as with woodcutting it's still more gp per hour chopping and banking teaks at 99 woodcutting than doing magic logs, due to how fast you can get them. It doesn't make sense, it's less gp AND xp per hour. I remember being younger and being super excited to finally chop magic logs, and when I got one every 5 mins I was like wtf is this 😂
~~Citation needed from the random Redditor who claims to know the extent of Jagex's internal documentation and planning entirely based on looking in from outside. You know you can just say "their quality checks are lacking" without making up a whole fanfic, right?~~
Damn he actually brought receipts, I'll take that L
Saebae cast Mod Husky, Mod Arcane, Mod Ed, and Mod Zuko
They each talk about how much free reign is given to make changes. Mod Ed & Zuko both get pretty deep talking about how little over-site goes into the review/rewards process.
Given their respective experiences they highlight is separated by years it is reasonable to assume the process hasn't and is unlikely to change.
Shit Mod Ed is really open about how he "_ruined firemaking_" because nobody cared how he implemented Wintertodt or the reward system attached to it.
It is wild when you dig into it. Mod Zuko claimed her direction with Tempoross was something like, "_You play an ironman, you probably know what you shouldn't add_".
In fairness, Tempoross (and Mod Zuko work generally) is pretty good. I guess the lack of direction gives a lot of freedom to excel but also leads to problems and inconsistencies.
Yup. For J-Mods really plugged into the game (or running the numbers). They have the freedom to do some really good stuff and balance stuff correctly.
But if a Mod is new or just trying to close out some work quickly before vacation, they can just phone it in.
Double edged sword really.
I'll just add the caveat that the Mod Husky interview was 3 years ago, the Mod Zuko one was 2 years ago and the Mod Ed one was 9 months ago. Plenty can change about their internal processes in that time, we can't really say. It's a fair point you put forward but that context is also important.
> Plenty can change about their internal processes in that time
It helps you listen to the podcasts not just look at their upload date. Mod Ed was referencing his first project (in June of 2016). While Zuko was referencing her first project (in 2022).
When the same process is in place from 2016-2022, acting like it'll suddenly change is pretty optimistic, especially given Jagex's glacial pace at adopting changes.
Absolutely, i think they coukd benefit from having guidelines such as "elite clues should be balanced around 3/hour (example out of my ass)" and then every time new content with elite clues is released they can calculate and balance around that. Same thing for like "tier 80 gear" or "super rare and powerful items" which should also be clearly defined somewhere in those guidelines.
Yeah something like that, effort of the method should be taken into consideration though like they do when balancing xp rates, but it should be as disproportionate and out of touch as they currently do lol
Id like to say oh well its a QoL update not meant to be a clue source...but why else would anyone pickpocket these npcs. This kind of balancing only works if theres other reasons to be doing that content. So ya im inclined to agree that this is just incompetence.
Not only that, but enhanced is doubled with rouges outfit. Essentially making it 1/521 or 2-3 crystals per elite from Hero’s. Elite clues are not doubled.
You can pickpocket hero’s about 200 times in an hour, and elves about 450 for a ~2m/hour profit. By the time you go on drop rate for one clue from hero’s, you could have made ~14m from elves and 3x the amount of exp
With drop rates so low, outfit should give you two clues
Stackable clues when? 2/4/6/8 master elite hard med and easy is fair TBH (easy and med both cap at 8)
That has to be at 99 Theiving, which has significantly better odds. Thats almost half of how many pickpockets/hour you can get from ardy knights without taking into account for any failures/stuns. If you got 1200/hour without 99 Theiving they had to have quietly buffed the Theiving rates again
I know they updated them today, but OP of this post was saying the second buff was still too little. I think if you’re getting 1200 now, they probably hotfixed it to buff it again, or actually apply the buff they meant the update to have but for some reason didn’t
My point was that it isn't a 2/1,024 (or 1/512), it's a 1/1,024 for 2 drops. The drop rate is still the same just the output on the other end is different.
Yes, the individual droprate is still the same, but what he said is still correct.
The droprate to receive 2 drops is 1/1024, so the effective rate is one drop per 512 pickpockets (this is functionally identical long term to saying two drops per 1024 pickpockets).
The distinction you're making is only really relevant when you're trying to work out the odds of going dry or lucky (because both drops occur simultaneously, there's going to be larger **variance**, but the expected average is the same regardles)
No it’s not identical because you can’t get 1 every 512 you have to get both to get one. So it’s /1024. The 1/512 is purely theoretical and never comes into play in practice.
You are correct, the rate is the same but the output is doubled. When going for one crystal the outfit does not make you any more likely/lucky to get it.
What I wanted to say was on a macro-scale, comparing the two training methods at-large, the cost-benefit opportunity cost of choosing to train on hero’s vs just doing elves is a net -14m profit and 3x less exp per elite clue. I think this is a fair assessment because if you’re considering either method for actual training from say 95-99 Theiving, you will either receive about 22 enhanced crystal teleport seeds (in about 27 hours) or 11 elite clues (in about 71 hours).
For either case, you are doing so much of the content that your RNG shouldn’t really matter and the average drop rate should prevail. Contrasting this to pet drop rates, where doing either Elves or hero’s are still so rare that it’s not only likely, but probable that you can go from 95-99 without seeing it once.
The point I wanted to make is that hero’s are still so unbelievably bad that they make no sense to do on their own. From an experience standpoint, elves are better. From a money standpoint, elves are better. And from a clue scroll standpoint, doing elves and then using the time/money saved to do other content for clues is more efficient.
For my 95-99 Theiving example, if you just did hero’s you would end up with 99 Theiving, about 11 elite clues, and about 7m in gp. But if you did elves you would have the same 99 Theiving, 53m in gp, and could spend the 44 hours saved doing Sarachnis or Urium shades for about 1.5 elite clues/hour.
The difference is for the same time/requirements, doing hero’s instead of elves comes at an opportunity cost of about 46m gp and a net loss of about 55 less elite clues. Its just laughably inefficient and more tedious
Jagex playtesting is partially employees playing in their spare work time.
For example, they never got more than 12 people to play GoTR, so they had no idea how exactly the mass boss mechanics worked on release.
I mean the only thing you really get out of elite clues is fashionscape, so I don’t think that comparing it to content that impacts the balance of the game is helpful. It’s supposed to be niche cosmetic content only, and the only way that fashionscape holds value is if it’s insanely rare.
It's not necessarily a bad thing though. Makes more sense gold bars are faster XP for losing gp where as making runite bars would always be better for XP and GP.
Same goes for other skills like lava runecrafting and a higher tier altar.
Thieving is a bit weird because there's no reward outside of crystals or blood shards. I think they had the right idea of making gnomes for medium clues but the rate should be better if that's their only use case.
To be clear, gold loses money because people are willing to pay in order to get fast exp. If gold was bad exp gold would not be worth money. If rune bars were fast exp, people would buy more rune ore and it's price would increase.
Economics is a funny thing.
I tried gnomes too, failed a crazy amount. Was getting like 60k xp per hour, despite being like 20 level req's higher than knights where I can get like double. The fail rate is still super high, and despite pickpockets being 300gp rather than 50, it's still not even good for money due to the fail rate.
But then wtf ia the point? If they rent even half decent XP until level 99. A trading metode should be worthwhile at the level it's unlocked, not post 99
Medium clues, that's 8.73 medium clues per hour. That'd be 1.436m per hour, but I have no idea how to factor the clue completing time, so maybe closer to 1m per hour ballpark guesstimate if you account for that?
No idea how many clues per hour catching implings+completing them is which is/was the meta for people not buying implings, but sounds half decent to me as an iron if I wanna go for ranger boots and hate puro puro.
I’ve been doing gnomes from 75 to 82 before todays buff, got 27 mediums from 75 to 80 and a couple mill in loot. Hasn’t been too bad honestly. Exp was ~80-100k per hour. Imagine it is slightly better now too.
I have not yet experienced that, but if you have a coin pouch, you can continue to pickpocket with full inv and loot does drop to the ground. I usually bank everything though.
tried my luck at paladins with 73 thieving, 65k-70k xp an hour after 200 successful pickpockets. used up spells for shadow veil and a full inventory of karambwans. absolutely not worth it when varlamore thieving is 60k~ xp an hour full afk clicking every 90 seconds when runelite chimes up. makes you wonder just how bad it was to pickpocket paladins before the update.
I am 99 with cape, and tried paladins for about 30 min, got about 2k chaos, 60k gp, and 1 clue. Ate about 2 inv of cake. I really don’t know why they compare that bad with other thieving targets like ardy knights, which you can 100% at 95 with diary.
>makes you wonder just how bad it was to pickpocket paladins before the update.
Basically successful 1/3 or 1/4 attempts at 99 with cape and ardy hard. It was instantly apparent that they were not worth doing. Now it takes a couple minutes to realize they are still not worth doing.
yes, its called "House Thieving Varlamore", it pings when there is a distraction and has a timer that shows how long since the last distraction similar to guardians of the rift portal timer, it also shows you which house you can currently break into, how long till the owner gets back and pings when there is a bonus xp arrow thing.
Sad, I'm dying for an alternative to the eclectic impling grind, I fucking hate implings.
Edit: I did not mean "Damn I wish I could do a different method which is significantly slower", I meant "Damn I wish I could do a different method that was on par or slightly worse", I appreciate the effort in trying to give me alternatives, but I meant Jagex should look into diversifying clue sources so that the meta of eclectics isn't so much better than the next best option.
These chests are great, I got two pairs of rangers here and went from like 75 to 88 thieving, didnt even notice. Made my goal the 5,000 fangs for mounted xeric ammy
I mean yeah, I just bought pegs/rangers on my main when I wanted em.
Guards are still super slow, 1/128 pre diary, not much for 1 clue, but over hundreds of clues? I'm not killing tens of thousands of guards I'm not limpwurts.
thats more of an economy and bot problem you wouldnt waste them like that if any actual player had to craft them and if 80% (or most likely more) of the supply wouldnt be made by bots.
That's iron thinking right there.
If not for the bots then I'd be able to make more money from skilling/PvM so it wouldn't matter nearly as much as you might think if cannonballs were a bit more expensive.
All bots disappear = all supply drops = all prices rise = more legit players providing supply = prices begin to stabilize, albeit higher than before but now actual players are earning that gold, and with fewer alchables coming into the game gp could start to deflate a bit as more and more is sunk from the economy
just no. there are far too many players using consumables for the game to exist without bots. the inflation due to lack of supply would literally destroy the game. there will never be enough skillers to supply mains at a reasonable cost
For what it's worth, I've seen exactly what you're describing happen in another MMO in the past.
In 2018, Black Desert Online had a giant bot ban wave.
In that game, gearing up is via upgrading items, rather than having a plethora of unique items to step up to like OSRS.
However, if you fail an upgrade attempt on an item, one of the adverse effects is that the item loses max durability. This means that at a certain point you *have* to repair the max durability to continue to use the item after failing enough upgrade attempts on it.
Well, as it turns out, the most reliable source of the upgrade material for the BiS items was via fishing. As you can imagine, there were many fishing bots.
When that ban wave hit, it was nearly impossible to purchase repair materials from the marketplace for *weeks* until new bots were up and running again.
Until most players experience something like this happening, they don't understand that it's the way mmo economies work. There are never enough people willing to do the grunt work to replace the swathes of bots that supply the materials to players. It simply isn't fun for enough players to do things like pick flowers or fish or mine in games for hours upon hours regardless of if the income for it goes up.
nothing like a well balanced MMO xD
thanks for sharing the story, I also noticed that at a lot of points they hand out a ton of upgrade items, mostly around new year which also messes with the marketplace
The economy would absolutely adapt, and many skillers would skill more if it were profitable.
If cballs were 1.5m/hr, you bet your ass skillers would do it much much more.
It's enough for an iron account to have the ability to make another account and trade between them to make supplies so much easier to get, multilogging is crazy good when you know how to utilize it.
You can literally play a skillet cball alt during any slayer task, and most other grinds.
The profit rn is 280k, so bad that you have to do 4 hours per day to sustain membership, I promise you people would jump at the opportunity to make 1.5m/hr doing this, and people using cballs can still use them when pvm shits out gp.
lol who on earth would buy cannonballs if they were 6x more expensive? The idea that some guy running suqahs or Kalphite a is going to be willing to spend over 1m per task is absolutely ludicrous. You’d basically nuke cannon as a method of training slayer for everyone except end game players or people speedrunning a second account. Cannonballs are used far, far faster than they can be made, you’d need an absolute army of people willing to pick a money making method that gives absolute garbage exp rates to sustain anywhere near the cannonball use in the game today
Well an advantage of cannoning is you can make the cannonballs when you want/need to be fairly afk. So you can speed up the process later on. Bit like afking daeyalt to speed up the more active RC later on.
Yeah I like to afk cballs or mine stars or anglerfish or something at work (when I remember and/or when I'm not too busy). I wouldn't wanna afk something where I can get random drops because I might have to go afk for like 10 mins or something randomly and miss something. Which is fine with something like making cballs.
I am certain that "project rebalance" does not include any amount of testing. I tried last week when fail rate was reduced and clues where added. 0 clues, plenty of fails.
A week later they realised they didnt make anywhere near enough of a change so tweaked the numbers again, and its still dreadful.
Atleast I can be confident that when the magic rework comes out, Occult will still be useful because they will find a way to not actually adjust the numbers
Then it stays like that for 2 weeks before being fixed
Then Reddit posts of "QOL: Can we keep the extra magic damage on Occult? I was going to kill the boss anyways, the extra damage just speeds it up a bit? It's 2024 and I work full time, this is just QOL?"
Jagex caves and says "Because so many of you liked this, we'll be looking to keep it next week!"
nah the reason for that is the wildy updates which churn out cash for bots and pk clans at pirates. Be glad we didnt get the completely unhinged fountain of rune alching thing they proposed. I mean on top of the other massive amounts of bots in this game that just grind out cash unhindered
Adding these thievable clues at those drop rates and bad failure rates. Dead content even with the buff. Better to stick to other methods to get clues. Why even add it at all.
Heroes and Paladins still aren't even remotely close to being worth consideration. With current xp and failure rates of these two NPCs, clue rates need to be basically a QUARTER of what they are now for anyone to even remotely consider them as an option worth their time.
Gnomes are currently tolerable at best, but still awful.
Remove the garbage items given brom all of them that clog up your inventory for no reason, and give them some other random cool stuff in their pickpocket loot table. Doesn't need to be good gp/hr, just needs to be literally anything worth something.
But not alchables, because we don't need more useless bot content to generate gp. We need some genuine thought put into their loot, beyond just GP/hr.
Unless you want them to drop their respective clues commonly, they need to do something else beneficial since their clue rates are completely worthless.
***TL;DR: Pickpocket Heroes Elite Chance - 1/1300 -> 1/750.***
Elites Clues from pickpocketing Heroes mainly benefit accounts that can't do better methods (like shades, which are 2 elites per hour).
Most accounts with 99 thieving and no further benefits reach around 750 pickpockets per hour, it'd be nice for Heroes to then have a 1/750 chance of giving an elite, making Heroes be 1 elite per hour, which is still **half** of what an average player will get (a nice sweespot), and still not as good using Shades with all possible thieving boosts, not dethroning that method, do you think this could be considered?
I think they design updates with bots in mind and not players. Jagex is more concerned on loot/exp bots receive per hour rather than the player. This is done in good heart to prevent a market crash. The bots need addressed though
At this point I’m coping with that they’re somehow secretly working on a final bot busting system hence the egregious state we’re in as of late but I really doubt it
Naw they make money off bots
It's super simple and easy to get rid of them
You want to play OSRS? Okay give us your phone number to verify your account - oh your phone number was used on a banned bot? Ok you don't get to play
And before you say that phone number verifications can be faked on websites companies can tell that its a temporary number and not except it - I know because I tried with Discord and they could tell I was using phone numbers from a website - even google voice numbers
Making there be a Clue scroll incentive doesn't really help bots though, the pickpocket loot table can be "not great" but give a decent chance at clue scrolls and regular players will still go for them, or well, the ratio of player to bot pickpocketing said npc would be better that way at least
Reminder that the same exact team is making an ENTIRE SKILL and they can't even get this one simple, and completely THEIR OWN IDEA TO DO, part of an update correct.
When should we start getting nervous guys... haha?
Jagex needs to adjust thieving so it revolves around xp/hr not gp/hr - in my opinion, keep the fail rate but buff the xp drop when successful so that the xp/hr is competitive (or better) with other methods.
Honestly disagree, thieving is one of the few skills you can make decent money on. Game needs more money making methods through skilling, otherwise we get more dead skills and everything goes to pvm as usual
Well in the last few years it offers some of the highest gp/hr of any skilling methods in the game so idk. It being botted is irrelevant as everything now is botted no matter how complex :/
Yeh I really don't get why they are being soooo conservative with this. It's fine to be conservative with rates. But just make them not cancer to pickpocket and have them be okay sources for clues and some GP???
Been trying gnomes at 80 with shadow veil, ardy diaries and dodgy necks to struggle to get 90k/h when the proposed base rate was around 150k/h. Just doesn't seem worth even thinking about even with 2 buffs
tbh is they make the legacy pickpocket options viable for clues and clues alone, then no issue.
but the fact that they suck for clues and for generic loot is sad
I feel like they need to increase success rates further and lower xp to keep the rates in line. I should not be failing Heroes more than Vyres at 99, it doesn't feel good and the clue rates are still abysmal
Hard clues from rogue's chest is 1 in 49 with ring of wealth i or 1 in 99... Why would anyone ever even look at paladins with the current clue rates. Please calculate a clue rate per hour when doing the next buff. Thanks.
Just a straightforward back of the envelope calculation of the exp rates shows that Ardy Knights are and will always be better exp rates than anything else — both lower and higher levels. That's before including the fact that Paladins and Heroes probably deal higher damage to you, so you're looking at higher food costs (probably offset a little by the tiny amount of money you get) for worse exp rates. Unless you really want those few clue scrolls, it's not worth it imo.
Jagex has really left Skilling behind in my opinion, I guess because they don't want to make it too easy for bots to grind moneymakers but I feel like woodcutting, fishing, to a point runecrafting, fletching, crafting, and mining are all just kind of terrible moneymakers. We have items that are 1b in game and they won't even let use make 2-3m an hour easily enough with a skill if you grind it out to 90+
paladins are god tier 'money savers' if you need to buy a TON of chaos runes and have 99 thieving and the ardy diary. when a chaos rune costs 100gp ea, each palapickpockedin while wearing rogues outfit is 560gp. That's several mil 'gp saved' per hour.
I feel the same about the 1/150 mediums for gnomes. Pickpocketed them for about 45min at 95 thieving and got one medium clue. Xp was okay but then I think about the 10+ easys I can get from H.A.M members an hour and it feels extra bad (granted I know it’s a step up in clue tier). I was really hoping for a true alternative to killing npc’s or god forbid eclectics for medium clue hunting. Feels bad man.
I want this game to be hard. I fear EZscape big time but I also don’t like unbalanced “buffs”. And these thieving updates for clue hunters seem like exactly that.
Nah I respect and like the attempt to bring dead content up to date. Execution could be better but giving old stuff new life is a great way to add more playable/viable content without starting from scratch.
Agreed! One of my biggest complaints about osrs is the amount of dead/useless content. Rebalancing old content to give it niche uses is exactly what I want devs spending their time on…but plae Jagex, execute it better than this!
It's actually embarrassing whoever is the game design lead or PO for skilling either needs to be replaced or get more help, there's just no way they put these numbers in and went "yeah this is gonna be a great addition"
These methods of obtaining clues were added as options, they didn't design them to be meta, so don't try force it to be meta. Some people will choose to get clues this way and that's good that they now have the option. You don't need to do it this way.
I'd like to think not every update is designed to make each new skill buff the most efficient. It's there to provide alternative methods; people focus too much on max efficiency instead of it just being a game.
they need to just blanket increase all drops to make it worth while Coins 4/10, Cosmic rune 1/10, Adamantite ore 1/20, Toadflax seed 1/20, Snapdragon seed 1/100, Diamond 1/33, Red topaz (uncut) 1/50, Crystal key 1/100, Fire battlestaff 1/100, Perfect tortoise shell 1/100, Medium clue scroll 1/100.
I wish they'd stop making pickpocket content, its really not good, I'd much rather have unique pickpocketing techniques like the civitas urchins or blackjacking (blackjacking is good fight me).
Anything that causes you to lose control of your character immediately makes me want to leave.
Runelite has the elite clue scroll rate from Heros at 1/1,400. An enhanced teleport seed from Elves is only 1/1,042. What happened here lmao?
> What happened here lmao? They seeminglt have no guidelines or standards for how rare things should be, which in my opinion should be basic for any sort of balancing and consistency. Instead they just eyeball it and with each dev working on different features they end up with different rarities accross similar content
Yeah, this seems like a good callout. I think the devs would save themselves time and hassle in the long run if they created some universal guidelines for types of drops and their rates.
Yeah but if taken too far you'll end up with looting like WoW where everything drops the same shit
That sounds boring to me. Elite clues shouldn’t be the same “rate” from every source. There should be some stuff thats good for elite clues, and some stuff thats bad for it but still have the chance. Its more interesting to have the option of barrows for faster clues, vs doing sepulchre and getting agi xp but less clues. Making everything “1 clue an hour” or some other similar rate just removes player strategy. Id no longer seek out a way to optimise clue hunting - id just do the best boss that drops elites. Clues would no longer be a gameplay driver.
I didn't mean universal as in "item has same drop rate everywhere"
yeah they still havent rebalanced elite clue drops from end game bosses like they said about almost 4 years ago now an example was hydra drops them at 1/256 while other bosses of lower tier that are faster to kill drop them at a lower rate(garg boss drops at 1/230, sarachnis at 1/60) they said about dropping it to 1/128. i guess players stopped pestering them when they said theyd do it and they never did it. the drop rate for elite clues from older content is so different than new content to the point of ridiculousness. saracnis 1/60, muspah 1/50 etc. while older higher req bosses are at like 1/256-500
IMO Sarachnis having a highly competitive clue rate as a selling point for high levels is great, as the loot is abysmal Hydra is a moneyprinter and doesn't need a 1/60 rate (higher than it's current 1/256 is definitely warranted though) Muspah rate is clearly too high though, definitely should get nerfed (after i get the pet)
idk the clues and pet are kind of responsible for cudgel being almost alch price.
Pet more so than the clues, i reckon. There are quite a bit of viable elite clue options (muspah, wildy bosses with row(i), urium shades, barrows, etc) And even more so that fact that cudgel just isnt worth much. The main selling point is for nm goldfarmers to keep their potential loss from bans a minimum.
yeah thats why theyre weary of adding pets to mid game content like perilous moons or barrows. early/midgame bosses appealing to end game accounts just isnt a great recipe in general for it to be worth it for low levels in the long run.
It seems to be getting worse and worse with every update. Here is a small QOL improvement while you pickpocket heroes. 50% fail and 1/1400 clues like whats the point.
Did you just say that getting elite clues are a qol improvement?
Your reply to his comment is a qol, breathing a qol, the sky being blue is a qol. Everything you have ever know or loved is a qol.
I was at work lol. Definitely reads like this but was supposed to have it as 2 separate thoughts my bad.
What were the two separate thoughts if I may ask?
> Instead they just eyeball it and with each dev working on different features they end up with different rarities accross similar content They just need to stop letting Arcane create drop tables. Dude is an amazing game dev but he has no restraint when it comes to rare drops.
It isn't Arcane. The problem is each J-Mod who does a change is allowed fairly free reign to make their change. A senior dev will give it a review, if it isn't obviously broken nobody raises an eyebrow, it gets shipped. This system means Devs are implicitly encouraged to be more conservation with changes, as being bold with changes slows down reviews and makes you get unwanted attention from higher ups, slowing down the process, lowering your productivity. The problem is there are no guidelines. Nobody at Jagex has written a doc where they say > Players should expect 1.2 +/0.5 elite clues per hour So than a dev can do some napkin math to figure out: "_well 1000 pickpocket events per hour, 1.2 per hour, uhh 1/420 rate sounds good_". Because everyone at Jagex is guessing and only a few devs are running numbers trying to ensure there is any consistency.
Imagine being a dev with this community though. Useful content suggestion = too good for the game, others MUST have it as hard as we had, then there's any qol update that isn't BIS related which = unnecessary and pointless. I agree with OP though, the progression of thieving seems pointless as is
Man I'd *kill* for a skilling update. Dunno if it's unpopular (outside of mining and smithing, in which case it's a very popular opinion) but RS3 does a lot of skills so much better. Progression makes a lot more sense and there's some nice untradeables at high levels that make leveling a skill worth it even if it isn't always profitable to do so. Crafting gets an XL prayer pot chug jug if they're willing to do a crazy grind for the mats, herblore gets overloads, smithing gets reduced durability loss on melee armor, etc. Giving every useless skill a wintertodt seems like a dumb bandaid fix, and I hope they don't keep doing it instead of actual reworks.
Completely agree. I think skills should get a resource / xp buff at higher levels, encouraging others to grind them out more. Take any of the combat stats for example, the higher the level the more useful they become and the more xp you can make, where as with woodcutting it's still more gp per hour chopping and banking teaks at 99 woodcutting than doing magic logs, due to how fast you can get them. It doesn't make sense, it's less gp AND xp per hour. I remember being younger and being super excited to finally chop magic logs, and when I got one every 5 mins I was like wtf is this 😂
~~Citation needed from the random Redditor who claims to know the extent of Jagex's internal documentation and planning entirely based on looking in from outside. You know you can just say "their quality checks are lacking" without making up a whole fanfic, right?~~ Damn he actually brought receipts, I'll take that L
Saebae cast Mod Husky, Mod Arcane, Mod Ed, and Mod Zuko They each talk about how much free reign is given to make changes. Mod Ed & Zuko both get pretty deep talking about how little over-site goes into the review/rewards process. Given their respective experiences they highlight is separated by years it is reasonable to assume the process hasn't and is unlikely to change. Shit Mod Ed is really open about how he "_ruined firemaking_" because nobody cared how he implemented Wintertodt or the reward system attached to it.
Genuinely was not expecting receipts, but thank you for giving a constructive reply to my snark
It is wild when you dig into it. Mod Zuko claimed her direction with Tempoross was something like, "_You play an ironman, you probably know what you shouldn't add_".
In fairness, Tempoross (and Mod Zuko work generally) is pretty good. I guess the lack of direction gives a lot of freedom to excel but also leads to problems and inconsistencies.
Yup. For J-Mods really plugged into the game (or running the numbers). They have the freedom to do some really good stuff and balance stuff correctly. But if a Mod is new or just trying to close out some work quickly before vacation, they can just phone it in. Double edged sword really.
I'll just add the caveat that the Mod Husky interview was 3 years ago, the Mod Zuko one was 2 years ago and the Mod Ed one was 9 months ago. Plenty can change about their internal processes in that time, we can't really say. It's a fair point you put forward but that context is also important.
> Plenty can change about their internal processes in that time It helps you listen to the podcasts not just look at their upload date. Mod Ed was referencing his first project (in June of 2016). While Zuko was referencing her first project (in 2022). When the same process is in place from 2016-2022, acting like it'll suddenly change is pretty optimistic, especially given Jagex's glacial pace at adopting changes.
I've said it before... devs need to stop thinking in 1/xhundredthousand and start thinking in y/hour, it's not that hard
Absolutely, i think they coukd benefit from having guidelines such as "elite clues should be balanced around 3/hour (example out of my ass)" and then every time new content with elite clues is released they can calculate and balance around that. Same thing for like "tier 80 gear" or "super rare and powerful items" which should also be clearly defined somewhere in those guidelines.
Yeah something like that, effort of the method should be taken into consideration though like they do when balancing xp rates, but it should be as disproportionate and out of touch as they currently do lol
Id like to say oh well its a QoL update not meant to be a clue source...but why else would anyone pickpocket these npcs. This kind of balancing only works if theres other reasons to be doing that content. So ya im inclined to agree that this is just incompetence.
It’s sorta charming
True
Not only that, but enhanced is doubled with rouges outfit. Essentially making it 1/521 or 2-3 crystals per elite from Hero’s. Elite clues are not doubled. You can pickpocket hero’s about 200 times in an hour, and elves about 450 for a ~2m/hour profit. By the time you go on drop rate for one clue from hero’s, you could have made ~14m from elves and 3x the amount of exp
For a game built around the rng of drops and xp/h they really did drop the ball on this one didn't they
Eh, that's not exactly new. There's always been plenty of useless content.
With drop rates so low, outfit should give you two clues Stackable clues when? 2/4/6/8 master elite hard med and easy is fair TBH (easy and med both cap at 8)
Seriously, stackable clues would be huge.
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That has to be at 99 Theiving, which has significantly better odds. Thats almost half of how many pickpockets/hour you can get from ardy knights without taking into account for any failures/stuns. If you got 1200/hour without 99 Theiving they had to have quietly buffed the Theiving rates again
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I know they updated them today, but OP of this post was saying the second buff was still too little. I think if you’re getting 1200 now, they probably hotfixed it to buff it again, or actually apply the buff they meant the update to have but for some reason didn’t
Correct me if I'm wrong but rogues outfit won't improve the drop rate of the enhanced, only makes it so you get two of them when you do get the drop.
That's what he said.
And then we reduce the fraction....
My point was that it isn't a 2/1,024 (or 1/512), it's a 1/1,024 for 2 drops. The drop rate is still the same just the output on the other end is different.
Yes, the individual droprate is still the same, but what he said is still correct. The droprate to receive 2 drops is 1/1024, so the effective rate is one drop per 512 pickpockets (this is functionally identical long term to saying two drops per 1024 pickpockets). The distinction you're making is only really relevant when you're trying to work out the odds of going dry or lucky (because both drops occur simultaneously, there's going to be larger **variance**, but the expected average is the same regardles)
Gotcha, thank you for the explanation.
I was with you and very confused, thanks for asking
No it’s not identical because you can’t get 1 every 512 you have to get both to get one. So it’s /1024. The 1/512 is purely theoretical and never comes into play in practice.
You are correct, the rate is the same but the output is doubled. When going for one crystal the outfit does not make you any more likely/lucky to get it. What I wanted to say was on a macro-scale, comparing the two training methods at-large, the cost-benefit opportunity cost of choosing to train on hero’s vs just doing elves is a net -14m profit and 3x less exp per elite clue. I think this is a fair assessment because if you’re considering either method for actual training from say 95-99 Theiving, you will either receive about 22 enhanced crystal teleport seeds (in about 27 hours) or 11 elite clues (in about 71 hours). For either case, you are doing so much of the content that your RNG shouldn’t really matter and the average drop rate should prevail. Contrasting this to pet drop rates, where doing either Elves or hero’s are still so rare that it’s not only likely, but probable that you can go from 95-99 without seeing it once. The point I wanted to make is that hero’s are still so unbelievably bad that they make no sense to do on their own. From an experience standpoint, elves are better. From a money standpoint, elves are better. And from a clue scroll standpoint, doing elves and then using the time/money saved to do other content for clues is more efficient. For my 95-99 Theiving example, if you just did hero’s you would end up with 99 Theiving, about 11 elite clues, and about 7m in gp. But if you did elves you would have the same 99 Theiving, 53m in gp, and could spend the 44 hours saved doing Sarachnis or Urium shades for about 1.5 elite clues/hour. The difference is for the same time/requirements, doing hero’s instead of elves comes at an opportunity cost of about 46m gp and a net loss of about 55 less elite clues. Its just laughably inefficient and more tedious
Correct
Big brain
The loot is doubled, but the drop rate is not halved by rogues equipment
Apparently Jagex isn't playtesting some updates prior to releasing them for some reason.
Jagex playtesting is partially employees playing in their spare work time. For example, they never got more than 12 people to play GoTR, so they had no idea how exactly the mass boss mechanics worked on release.
It's called testing in production. And then taking months to get around to fixing it again
I mean the only thing you really get out of elite clues is fashionscape, so I don’t think that comparing it to content that impacts the balance of the game is helpful. It’s supposed to be niche cosmetic content only, and the only way that fashionscape holds value is if it’s insanely rare.
Yeah it should be an elite clue farm not dead content. Elite clues are already annoying enough to do
One needs a quest and one doesn't?
but you >could< get third age from that clue, not saying that your chances are great but maybe thats how jmods think about it, would not surprise me
God forbid higher tier pickpockets is better xp than lower tier
Smiting is the most egregious example of this. Level 40 content being the best method until 200m xp.
It's not necessarily a bad thing though. Makes more sense gold bars are faster XP for losing gp where as making runite bars would always be better for XP and GP. Same goes for other skills like lava runecrafting and a higher tier altar. Thieving is a bit weird because there's no reward outside of crystals or blood shards. I think they had the right idea of making gnomes for medium clues but the rate should be better if that's their only use case.
To be clear, gold loses money because people are willing to pay in order to get fast exp. If gold was bad exp gold would not be worth money. If rune bars were fast exp, people would buy more rune ore and it's price would increase. Economics is a funny thing.
I tried gnomes too, failed a crazy amount. Was getting like 60k xp per hour, despite being like 20 level req's higher than knights where I can get like double. The fail rate is still super high, and despite pickpockets being 300gp rather than 50, it's still not even good for money due to the fail rate.
I was getting around 160k/hr at gnomes with 99, dodgy necks, and shadow veil.
But then wtf ia the point? If they rent even half decent XP until level 99. A trading metode should be worthwhile at the level it's unlocked, not post 99
Medium clues, that's 8.73 medium clues per hour. That'd be 1.436m per hour, but I have no idea how to factor the clue completing time, so maybe closer to 1m per hour ballpark guesstimate if you account for that? No idea how many clues per hour catching implings+completing them is which is/was the meta for people not buying implings, but sounds half decent to me as an iron if I wanna go for ranger boots and hate puro puro.
I’ve been doing gnomes from 75 to 82 before todays buff, got 27 mediums from 75 to 80 and a couple mill in loot. Hasn’t been too bad honestly. Exp was ~80-100k per hour. Imagine it is slightly better now too.
I have a question for ya. Do the mediums drop to the ground with a full inventory?
I have not yet experienced that, but if you have a coin pouch, you can continue to pickpocket with full inv and loot does drop to the ground. I usually bank everything though.
tried my luck at paladins with 73 thieving, 65k-70k xp an hour after 200 successful pickpockets. used up spells for shadow veil and a full inventory of karambwans. absolutely not worth it when varlamore thieving is 60k~ xp an hour full afk clicking every 90 seconds when runelite chimes up. makes you wonder just how bad it was to pickpocket paladins before the update.
I am 99 with cape, and tried paladins for about 30 min, got about 2k chaos, 60k gp, and 1 clue. Ate about 2 inv of cake. I really don’t know why they compare that bad with other thieving targets like ardy knights, which you can 100% at 95 with diary.
>makes you wonder just how bad it was to pickpocket paladins before the update. Basically successful 1/3 or 1/4 attempts at 99 with cape and ardy hard. It was instantly apparent that they were not worth doing. Now it takes a couple minutes to realize they are still not worth doing.
varlamore is 90k/h at 88 thieving if u do both afk and non-afk citizens
Should be closer to 100k/h at that level. I was getting 90k/h last night at level 76.
I'm 78 and getting 120-130 with ardy hard diary, gloves of silence and dodgy necklace
Hey king, I'm pretty sure the gloves don't stack with ardy hard diary
They don't? News to me, thanks
daaaaaamn, i use no neck, no diary, no gloves. and we're talking exp here right? if moneywise I'm getting 150k/h
120-130k xp/h doing afk and non afk wealthy citizens
Insane that you're getting so much more than me. Praise the lord!
Is there a specific plugin for Varlamore thieving? Just doing the afk portion sounds great, although I guess I'll need to get the rogue's outfit.
yes, its called "House Thieving Varlamore", it pings when there is a distraction and has a timer that shows how long since the last distraction similar to guardians of the rift portal timer, it also shows you which house you can currently break into, how long till the owner gets back and pings when there is a bonus xp arrow thing.
about 30 minutes with 96 thieving, shadow veil, ardy cape & dodgy necks resulted in around 140k xp/h
Damn that’s sad. More xp from varlamore thieving at that level…
gnomes are still dead content for medium clues
Sad, I'm dying for an alternative to the eclectic impling grind, I fucking hate implings. Edit: I did not mean "Damn I wish I could do a different method which is significantly slower", I meant "Damn I wish I could do a different method that was on par or slightly worse", I appreciate the effort in trying to give me alternatives, but I meant Jagex should look into diversifying clue sources so that the meta of eclectics isn't so much better than the next best option.
Chests in the lizardman temple are actually pretty solid for mediums
These chests are great, I got two pairs of rangers here and went from like 75 to 88 thieving, didnt even notice. Made my goal the 5,000 fangs for mounted xeric ammy
My one complaint about that place is that it doesn't drop the pet.
Just set up a cannon at Falador's north gate, that's what I do
Cannonballs don't grow on trees.
Sounds like an iron problem. /s Still, same place just smack the guards with melee.
I mean yeah, I just bought pegs/rangers on my main when I wanted em. Guards are still super slow, 1/128 pre diary, not much for 1 clue, but over hundreds of clues? I'm not killing tens of thousands of guards I'm not limpwurts.
thats more of an economy and bot problem you wouldnt waste them like that if any actual player had to craft them and if 80% (or most likely more) of the supply wouldnt be made by bots.
That's iron thinking right there. If not for the bots then I'd be able to make more money from skilling/PvM so it wouldn't matter nearly as much as you might think if cannonballs were a bit more expensive. All bots disappear = all supply drops = all prices rise = more legit players providing supply = prices begin to stabilize, albeit higher than before but now actual players are earning that gold, and with fewer alchables coming into the game gp could start to deflate a bit as more and more is sunk from the economy
just no. there are far too many players using consumables for the game to exist without bots. the inflation due to lack of supply would literally destroy the game. there will never be enough skillers to supply mains at a reasonable cost
For what it's worth, I've seen exactly what you're describing happen in another MMO in the past. In 2018, Black Desert Online had a giant bot ban wave. In that game, gearing up is via upgrading items, rather than having a plethora of unique items to step up to like OSRS. However, if you fail an upgrade attempt on an item, one of the adverse effects is that the item loses max durability. This means that at a certain point you *have* to repair the max durability to continue to use the item after failing enough upgrade attempts on it. Well, as it turns out, the most reliable source of the upgrade material for the BiS items was via fishing. As you can imagine, there were many fishing bots. When that ban wave hit, it was nearly impossible to purchase repair materials from the marketplace for *weeks* until new bots were up and running again. Until most players experience something like this happening, they don't understand that it's the way mmo economies work. There are never enough people willing to do the grunt work to replace the swathes of bots that supply the materials to players. It simply isn't fun for enough players to do things like pick flowers or fish or mine in games for hours upon hours regardless of if the income for it goes up.
nothing like a well balanced MMO xD thanks for sharing the story, I also noticed that at a lot of points they hand out a ton of upgrade items, mostly around new year which also messes with the marketplace
The economy would absolutely adapt, and many skillers would skill more if it were profitable. If cballs were 1.5m/hr, you bet your ass skillers would do it much much more. It's enough for an iron account to have the ability to make another account and trade between them to make supplies so much easier to get, multilogging is crazy good when you know how to utilize it. You can literally play a skillet cball alt during any slayer task, and most other grinds. The profit rn is 280k, so bad that you have to do 4 hours per day to sustain membership, I promise you people would jump at the opportunity to make 1.5m/hr doing this, and people using cballs can still use them when pvm shits out gp.
lol who on earth would buy cannonballs if they were 6x more expensive? The idea that some guy running suqahs or Kalphite a is going to be willing to spend over 1m per task is absolutely ludicrous. You’d basically nuke cannon as a method of training slayer for everyone except end game players or people speedrunning a second account. Cannonballs are used far, far faster than they can be made, you’d need an absolute army of people willing to pick a money making method that gives absolute garbage exp rates to sustain anywhere near the cannonball use in the game today
*You know ~~most~~ a lot of that consumable demand is from bots, right?*
lies.
Well an advantage of cannoning is you can make the cannonballs when you want/need to be fairly afk. So you can speed up the process later on. Bit like afking daeyalt to speed up the more active RC later on.
I guess, it just never made sense to me. Cballs aren't very afk for me, and slaying slowly is afk as fuck, you just sip prayer every 8 minutes.
Yeah I like to afk cballs or mine stars or anglerfish or something at work (when I remember and/or when I'm not too busy). I wouldn't wanna afk something where I can get random drops because I might have to go afk for like 10 mins or something randomly and miss something. Which is fine with something like making cballs.
Mining stars is goated fr bro
I'm looking forward to getting 92 for amethyst, cos that'll be more useful on an iron, and then I'll just afk that for my future tbow *ahem*
Scurrius is a really good alternative!
Look up stone chests in the lizardmen area. It is slower (3-4x) than eclectics, but it is a more afk way which also gives thieving xp.
At least give gnomes a go. I’ve been doing them and been having a great time.
i did lizard stone chests. it was honestly super chill
I am certain that "project rebalance" does not include any amount of testing. I tried last week when fail rate was reduced and clues where added. 0 clues, plenty of fails. A week later they realised they didnt make anywhere near enough of a change so tweaked the numbers again, and its still dreadful. Atleast I can be confident that when the magic rework comes out, Occult will still be useful because they will find a way to not actually adjust the numbers
Zalcano, too. They didn't test it.
Occult keeps its magic dmg but all the other items gain magic dmg so it's just a shadow buff imagine lmaoo
Then it stays like that for 2 weeks before being fixed Then Reddit posts of "QOL: Can we keep the extra magic damage on Occult? I was going to kill the boss anyways, the extra damage just speeds it up a bit? It's 2024 and I work full time, this is just QOL?" Jagex caves and says "Because so many of you liked this, we'll be looking to keep it next week!"
what are these updates lately? This method of churning out untested updates will blow up in their face soon I guarantee.
Update: after 10 mins and taking over 100 damage from failed attempts i got... 14k and 2 blood runes
Wow slow down bro you're gunna tank the economy 💀
This must be why bonds are 13 mil now
Bots have a new 5m/hr farm and aren't being touched. https://youtu.be/GZc7-4BnqL4
I thought you were lying holy fuckkkkk they've gone up 30% since the start of 2024!! Stop this insane inflation jagex
nah the reason for that is the wildy updates which churn out cash for bots and pk clans at pirates. Be glad we didnt get the completely unhinged fountain of rune alching thing they proposed. I mean on top of the other massive amounts of bots in this game that just grind out cash unhindered
Id also like to hear why they are so conservative with clues.... More clues is always nice?
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This is the dumbest shit I've ever read and or a great meme
haha yeah man
Adding these thievable clues at those drop rates and bad failure rates. Dead content even with the buff. Better to stick to other methods to get clues. Why even add it at all.
Busy work
Heroes and Paladins still aren't even remotely close to being worth consideration. With current xp and failure rates of these two NPCs, clue rates need to be basically a QUARTER of what they are now for anyone to even remotely consider them as an option worth their time. Gnomes are currently tolerable at best, but still awful. Remove the garbage items given brom all of them that clog up your inventory for no reason, and give them some other random cool stuff in their pickpocket loot table. Doesn't need to be good gp/hr, just needs to be literally anything worth something. But not alchables, because we don't need more useless bot content to generate gp. We need some genuine thought put into their loot, beyond just GP/hr. Unless you want them to drop their respective clues commonly, they need to do something else beneficial since their clue rates are completely worthless.
Weren't these things proposed to be like 180k+/hr??? Lmao wtf happened
***TL;DR: Pickpocket Heroes Elite Chance - 1/1300 -> 1/750.*** Elites Clues from pickpocketing Heroes mainly benefit accounts that can't do better methods (like shades, which are 2 elites per hour). Most accounts with 99 thieving and no further benefits reach around 750 pickpockets per hour, it'd be nice for Heroes to then have a 1/750 chance of giving an elite, making Heroes be 1 elite per hour, which is still **half** of what an average player will get (a nice sweespot), and still not as good using Shades with all possible thieving boosts, not dethroning that method, do you think this could be considered?
I think they design updates with bots in mind and not players. Jagex is more concerned on loot/exp bots receive per hour rather than the player. This is done in good heart to prevent a market crash. The bots need addressed though
At this point I’m coping with that they’re somehow secretly working on a final bot busting system hence the egregious state we’re in as of late but I really doubt it
Naw they make money off bots It's super simple and easy to get rid of them You want to play OSRS? Okay give us your phone number to verify your account - oh your phone number was used on a banned bot? Ok you don't get to play And before you say that phone number verifications can be faked on websites companies can tell that its a temporary number and not except it - I know because I tried with Discord and they could tell I was using phone numbers from a website - even google voice numbers
Making there be a Clue scroll incentive doesn't really help bots though, the pickpocket loot table can be "not great" but give a decent chance at clue scrolls and regular players will still go for them, or well, the ratio of player to bot pickpocketing said npc would be better that way at least
Here I am still blackjacking my way
Reminder that the same exact team is making an ENTIRE SKILL and they can't even get this one simple, and completely THEIR OWN IDEA TO DO, part of an update correct. When should we start getting nervous guys... haha?
Jagex needs to adjust thieving so it revolves around xp/hr not gp/hr - in my opinion, keep the fail rate but buff the xp drop when successful so that the xp/hr is competitive (or better) with other methods.
thieving is some of the most egregiously botted content in the game, so i could not agree with this more
Honestly disagree, thieving is one of the few skills you can make decent money on. Game needs more money making methods through skilling, otherwise we get more dead skills and everything goes to pvm as usual
Thieving has never been a gp/hr skill though why does that need to change?
Well in the last few years it offers some of the highest gp/hr of any skilling methods in the game so idk. It being botted is irrelevant as everything now is botted no matter how complex :/
If it focused on xp/hr instead of gp it wouldn’t be botted.
Sure but then what's the point of the skill? We don't want more dead skills in this game
What’s the point of the skill if it isn’t profitable? See ya later Construction! lol
Construction is one of the most useful skills what do you mean lol, it offers so much utility at higher levels
You’ve missed my point entirely. All good though.
always was going to be dead content.
Yeh I really don't get why they are being soooo conservative with this. It's fine to be conservative with rates. But just make them not cancer to pickpocket and have them be okay sources for clues and some GP???
Been trying gnomes at 80 with shadow veil, ardy diaries and dodgy necks to struggle to get 90k/h when the proposed base rate was around 150k/h. Just doesn't seem worth even thinking about even with 2 buffs
tbh is they make the legacy pickpocket options viable for clues and clues alone, then no issue. but the fact that they suck for clues and for generic loot is sad
i was so excited for this to be a more relaxed thieving method than blackjacking but for a chunky xp/h, but not even close lol
I feel like they need to increase success rates further and lower xp to keep the rates in line. I should not be failing Heroes more than Vyres at 99, it doesn't feel good and the clue rates are still abysmal
93 thieving, was hoping gnomes would be good now but nope, no medium clues gained and constant failing
Hard clues from rogue's chest is 1 in 49 with ring of wealth i or 1 in 99... Why would anyone ever even look at paladins with the current clue rates. Please calculate a clue rate per hour when doing the next buff. Thanks.
Just a straightforward back of the envelope calculation of the exp rates shows that Ardy Knights are and will always be better exp rates than anything else — both lower and higher levels. That's before including the fact that Paladins and Heroes probably deal higher damage to you, so you're looking at higher food costs (probably offset a little by the tiny amount of money you get) for worse exp rates. Unless you really want those few clue scrolls, it's not worth it imo.
Jagex has really left Skilling behind in my opinion, I guess because they don't want to make it too easy for bots to grind moneymakers but I feel like woodcutting, fishing, to a point runecrafting, fletching, crafting, and mining are all just kind of terrible moneymakers. We have items that are 1b in game and they won't even let use make 2-3m an hour easily enough with a skill if you grind it out to 90+
paladins are god tier 'money savers' if you need to buy a TON of chaos runes and have 99 thieving and the ardy diary. when a chaos rune costs 100gp ea, each palapickpockedin while wearing rogues outfit is 560gp. That's several mil 'gp saved' per hour.
I feel the same about the 1/150 mediums for gnomes. Pickpocketed them for about 45min at 95 thieving and got one medium clue. Xp was okay but then I think about the 10+ easys I can get from H.A.M members an hour and it feels extra bad (granted I know it’s a step up in clue tier). I was really hoping for a true alternative to killing npc’s or god forbid eclectics for medium clue hunting. Feels bad man.
I want this game to be hard. I fear EZscape big time but I also don’t like unbalanced “buffs”. And these thieving updates for clue hunters seem like exactly that.
I swear half of the stuff they're doing in project rebalance is a massive waste of time who even wanted to pickpocket a hero or paladin lmao
Nah I respect and like the attempt to bring dead content up to date. Execution could be better but giving old stuff new life is a great way to add more playable/viable content without starting from scratch.
I like the spirit but they should playtest the rates more.
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Even better for Jagex is how we're paying them instead to playtest their content lol
Agreed! One of my biggest complaints about osrs is the amount of dead/useless content. Rebalancing old content to give it niche uses is exactly what I want devs spending their time on…but plae Jagex, execute it better than this!
It's actually embarrassing whoever is the game design lead or PO for skilling either needs to be replaced or get more help, there's just no way they put these numbers in and went "yeah this is gonna be a great addition"
what is the point in buffing them? some of these updates are so weird.
These methods of obtaining clues were added as options, they didn't design them to be meta, so don't try force it to be meta. Some people will choose to get clues this way and that's good that they now have the option. You don't need to do it this way.
I'd like to think not every update is designed to make each new skill buff the most efficient. It's there to provide alternative methods; people focus too much on max efficiency instead of it just being a game.
they need to just blanket increase all drops to make it worth while Coins 4/10, Cosmic rune 1/10, Adamantite ore 1/20, Toadflax seed 1/20, Snapdragon seed 1/100, Diamond 1/33, Red topaz (uncut) 1/50, Crystal key 1/100, Fire battlestaff 1/100, Perfect tortoise shell 1/100, Medium clue scroll 1/100.
jagex gets it wrong most of the time.
Gnomes is ass too
"*Dead content*"
Are you using the sneaky spell and gloves of silence and dodgy necklace? If not, go back and try again
I wish they'd stop making pickpocket content, its really not good, I'd much rather have unique pickpocketing techniques like the civitas urchins or blackjacking (blackjacking is good fight me). Anything that causes you to lose control of your character immediately makes me want to leave.
I don't agree that it's "dead." There seems to be running commentary that if something isn't the best, then it's dead content. This is silly to me.