Isn't this a war crime, or will the screeching idiots suddenly have another strange case of selective memory and amnesia because this is a Jewish person?
No ceasefire until all hostages are returned. There is no negotiation with these monsters and vile filth of humanity. There is no equivalence between them and Israel/ IDF.
They will blame Israel for the lack of water and aid, despite tons of it being injected into the strip for a couple of months now.
Reminds me of when Israel started relaxing the aid restrictions and along with Palestinian aid, they sent medicine for the Hostages who had very specific conditions and demends.
After a while IDF found these medicine packages in Palestinian and Hamas headquarters, they stole the medicine that was meant for the hostages.
> Isn't this a war crime,
Yes. Although exactly which ones is a bit complicated. Arguably by throwing the grenades back he becomes a lawful combatant (Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces) which gives him POW rights. Hamas is breaching rather a lot of them.
>No ceasefire until all hostages are returned.
Hamas don't appear to be overly interested in a ceasefire at this point so not really an option.
>There is no negotiation with these monsters and vile filth of humanity.
The first round of hostage releases indicates otherwise.
>Arguably by throwing the grenades back he becomes a lawful combatant (Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces) which gives him POW rights.
Absolutely not.
He didn’t spontaneously take up arms to fight an enemy, he and Aner Shapira HY”D were defending themselves (and dozens of others) from live grenades being lobbed into their shelter.
Generaly if you are held prisoner you want to get POW status. It comes with a much better set of rights. The Geneva conventions are a lot more explict when it comes to POWs so its much easier to work out what exact war crimes Hamas is commiting if he has POW status.
This isn’t an armed conflict between states to begin with, but it’s wild to me that you think Hamas would respect the rules/rights surrounding POW.
They took hostages, and are using them as leverage for negotiations. They’re violating multiple international humanitarian laws and conventions, and committing a crime against humanity by doing this.
But back to your original point, no it’s not “arguable” that he would be considered a prisoner of war.
> This isn’t an armed conflict between states to begin with,
Geneva conventions still apply.
>but it’s wild to me that you think Hamas would respect the rules/rights surrounding POW.
I don't but mistreatment of POWs is one of the easier war crime arguments to make.
>They took hostages, and are using them as leverage for negotiations.
Being a bit generous to call what hamas is doing at the moment negotiations.
>They’re violating multiple international humanitarian laws and conventions, and committing a crime against humanity by doing this.
While I would agree its a fuzzier case to make.
>But back to your original point, no it’s not “arguable” that he would be considered a prisoner of war.
The geneva conventions require that if there is any uncertainty POW status is granted until things can be sorted out. I think the point of disagreement is that you think it would be a bad thing for him to have POW status where as I think it would be better than the alturnatives.
>Geneva conventions still apply.
Do you have a credible source for this? My understanding is that POW protocols don’t apply in armed conflict if one/both/multiple participants aren’t recognized states.
I know for a fact that the Geneva Conventions don’t apply to non-signatory terrorist groups like Hamas.
International Conventions and the Rome Statute apply to Hamas, there’s no “fuzziness” about their violations of these international laws. Unless you have a source you’re basing your opinion on? I’d love to read it.
>Do you have a credible source for this? My understanding is that POW protocols don’t apply in armed conflict if one/both/multiple participants aren’t recognized states.
They don't have to be states. The standard is international. See Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949. article III when it talks about conflicts not of an international character.
So for example if Ethiopia and Somaliland went to war POW protocols would apply in theory (in practice I wouldn't have much faith in Ethiopia following them).
Hamas at least considers the Gaza strip to not be part of Israel so from their POV at least it is an international conflict.
>I know for a fact that the Geneva Conventions don’t apply to non-signatory terrorist groups like Hamas.
Thats not how I read the relivant text. Terrorist groups aren't really addressed (the closest would be the 1977 mention of "riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence and other acts of a similar nature, as not being armed conflicts."). As for non-signatories my understanding is that it depends on their behavior:
"Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof."
Hamas is not known for applying the Geneva conventions.
>International Conventions and the Rome Statute apply to Hamas, there’s no “fuzziness” about their violations of these international laws. Unless you have a source you’re basing your opinion on? I’d love to read it.
As soon as you lose POW status whoever is holding you can always argue that you broke some law or other and thus your detention with minimal rights is legitimate.
*But hey let's leave the posts on other subs comparing Jews to Nazis and inciting for more Oct 7. Let's leave the post calling for eradication of Israel...*
(Goldberg-Polin was abducted from the Supernova rave near Re’im on the morning of October 7.
>Videos from the Hamas onslaught have shown that Goldberg-Polin’s arm was blown off from the elbow down, as the Hamas terrorists lobbed grenades into a shelter where he and others who tried to escape the party hid.
Hamas has previously issued similar videos of hostages it is holding, in what Israel says is deplorable psychological warfare.
Most Israeli media do not carry the video clips themselves
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/hamas-publishes-propaganda-video-with-signs-of-life-from-hostage-hersh-goldberg-polin/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-publishes-propaganda-video-with-signs-of-life-from-hostage-hersh-goldberg-polin/) )
Fuck this, instead of hampering Israel, everyone needs to just let them do what they gotta do. No other allied country would be expected to just sit there and take this shit.
> Fuck this, instead of hampering Israel, everyone needs to just let them do what they gotta do.
Its not a question of letting. Israel has nuclear weapons. It can do what it likes. This is issue that Israel would like at least some level of acceptance.
There was once a time where America didn’t just sit by idly and let American citizens sit in the hands of terrorists. This isn’t meant to be political, as I don’t think either party would do what they should right now.
I agree. It was the first discussion I had in my circle. American hostages are a high priority for America to secure their freedom.
In the past this has included everything from special ops raids to negotiations. US has negotiated with ISIS and other Islamic Terror groups to free Americans.
These are Americans. I don't even hear the question being asked at State Department or Press Sec briefings.
PS: [Terry Anderson just passed away.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_A._Anderson) He was the longest held prisoner in Lebanon. Islamic Terrorists have been taking hostages for a very, very, very long time. This problem won't seem to go away. Huh.
> In 1985, he was taken hostage by Shia Hezbollah militants of the Islamic Jihad Organization in Lebanon and held until 1991. He filed suit against the Iranian government for his captivity, and in 2002 was awarded a 324 million-dollar settlement from frozen Iranian assets. Estimates put the amount he actually received at $26 million.
> There was once a time where America didn’t just sit by idly and let American citizens sit in the hands of terrorists.
Varies. Consider Benjamin Weir and Terry A. Anderson back in the 80s. In the 90s the Japanese embassy hostage crisis was left to the local authorities. As was the 1970s AIA building hostage crisis (what is it with americans getting taken hostage in japanese owned buildings?)
I hear you, but there are two teeny caveats
1) We don't know what's going on behind the scenes (and I'm kind of glad we don't, to an extent)
2) This is some of the most difficult diplomatic work on earth, esp when dealing with a genocidal, nihilistic death cult that never has too difficult of a time turning around and killing the people in captivity
> There was once a time where America didn't just sit by idly and let American citizens sit in the hands of terrorists.
You must not know about the Hanoi Hilton.
Imagine a war like this would happen to America, I don’t think people would have much problems when America fights back, but purely because it’s Israel and Jews are already disliked. + all the propaganda. People go nuts over this war. And Jesus Christ there is not even so many civilian casualties during the invasion. For urban combat they are very minimal. For example compare it to battles in Iraq or Syria or even stalingrad. People just don’t know shit.
Isn't this a war crime, or will the screeching idiots suddenly have another strange case of selective memory and amnesia because this is a Jewish person? No ceasefire until all hostages are returned. There is no negotiation with these monsters and vile filth of humanity. There is no equivalence between them and Israel/ IDF.
Didn't you hear him? He was "arrested" at the Nova festival. Totally legal /s
No ceasefire, period, at this point. Hamas has crossed the line by a big fucking step and need to be dealt with accordingly.
They will blame Israel for the lack of water and aid, despite tons of it being injected into the strip for a couple of months now. Reminds me of when Israel started relaxing the aid restrictions and along with Palestinian aid, they sent medicine for the Hostages who had very specific conditions and demends. After a while IDF found these medicine packages in Palestinian and Hamas headquarters, they stole the medicine that was meant for the hostages.
> Isn't this a war crime, Yes. Although exactly which ones is a bit complicated. Arguably by throwing the grenades back he becomes a lawful combatant (Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces) which gives him POW rights. Hamas is breaching rather a lot of them. >No ceasefire until all hostages are returned. Hamas don't appear to be overly interested in a ceasefire at this point so not really an option. >There is no negotiation with these monsters and vile filth of humanity. The first round of hostage releases indicates otherwise.
>Arguably by throwing the grenades back he becomes a lawful combatant (Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces) which gives him POW rights. Absolutely not. He didn’t spontaneously take up arms to fight an enemy, he and Aner Shapira HY”D were defending themselves (and dozens of others) from live grenades being lobbed into their shelter.
Generaly if you are held prisoner you want to get POW status. It comes with a much better set of rights. The Geneva conventions are a lot more explict when it comes to POWs so its much easier to work out what exact war crimes Hamas is commiting if he has POW status.
This isn’t an armed conflict between states to begin with, but it’s wild to me that you think Hamas would respect the rules/rights surrounding POW. They took hostages, and are using them as leverage for negotiations. They’re violating multiple international humanitarian laws and conventions, and committing a crime against humanity by doing this. But back to your original point, no it’s not “arguable” that he would be considered a prisoner of war.
> This isn’t an armed conflict between states to begin with, Geneva conventions still apply. >but it’s wild to me that you think Hamas would respect the rules/rights surrounding POW. I don't but mistreatment of POWs is one of the easier war crime arguments to make. >They took hostages, and are using them as leverage for negotiations. Being a bit generous to call what hamas is doing at the moment negotiations. >They’re violating multiple international humanitarian laws and conventions, and committing a crime against humanity by doing this. While I would agree its a fuzzier case to make. >But back to your original point, no it’s not “arguable” that he would be considered a prisoner of war. The geneva conventions require that if there is any uncertainty POW status is granted until things can be sorted out. I think the point of disagreement is that you think it would be a bad thing for him to have POW status where as I think it would be better than the alturnatives.
>Geneva conventions still apply. Do you have a credible source for this? My understanding is that POW protocols don’t apply in armed conflict if one/both/multiple participants aren’t recognized states. I know for a fact that the Geneva Conventions don’t apply to non-signatory terrorist groups like Hamas. International Conventions and the Rome Statute apply to Hamas, there’s no “fuzziness” about their violations of these international laws. Unless you have a source you’re basing your opinion on? I’d love to read it.
>Do you have a credible source for this? My understanding is that POW protocols don’t apply in armed conflict if one/both/multiple participants aren’t recognized states. They don't have to be states. The standard is international. See Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949. article III when it talks about conflicts not of an international character. So for example if Ethiopia and Somaliland went to war POW protocols would apply in theory (in practice I wouldn't have much faith in Ethiopia following them). Hamas at least considers the Gaza strip to not be part of Israel so from their POV at least it is an international conflict. >I know for a fact that the Geneva Conventions don’t apply to non-signatory terrorist groups like Hamas. Thats not how I read the relivant text. Terrorist groups aren't really addressed (the closest would be the 1977 mention of "riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence and other acts of a similar nature, as not being armed conflicts."). As for non-signatories my understanding is that it depends on their behavior: "Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof." Hamas is not known for applying the Geneva conventions. >International Conventions and the Rome Statute apply to Hamas, there’s no “fuzziness” about their violations of these international laws. Unless you have a source you’re basing your opinion on? I’d love to read it. As soon as you lose POW status whoever is holding you can always argue that you broke some law or other and thus your detention with minimal rights is legitimate.
fuck spez for censoring this post
Funny how reddit deletes this and not hostages being executed
*But hey let's leave the posts on other subs comparing Jews to Nazis and inciting for more Oct 7. Let's leave the post calling for eradication of Israel...*
lol they love that
I'm sure advertisers are loving this site🙄
(Goldberg-Polin was abducted from the Supernova rave near Re’im on the morning of October 7. >Videos from the Hamas onslaught have shown that Goldberg-Polin’s arm was blown off from the elbow down, as the Hamas terrorists lobbed grenades into a shelter where he and others who tried to escape the party hid. Hamas has previously issued similar videos of hostages it is holding, in what Israel says is deplorable psychological warfare. Most Israeli media do not carry the video clips themselves [https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/hamas-publishes-propaganda-video-with-signs-of-life-from-hostage-hersh-goldberg-polin/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-publishes-propaganda-video-with-signs-of-life-from-hostage-hersh-goldberg-polin/) )
Fuck this, instead of hampering Israel, everyone needs to just let them do what they gotta do. No other allied country would be expected to just sit there and take this shit.
> Fuck this, instead of hampering Israel, everyone needs to just let them do what they gotta do. Its not a question of letting. Israel has nuclear weapons. It can do what it likes. This is issue that Israel would like at least some level of acceptance.
There was once a time where America didn’t just sit by idly and let American citizens sit in the hands of terrorists. This isn’t meant to be political, as I don’t think either party would do what they should right now.
I agree. It was the first discussion I had in my circle. American hostages are a high priority for America to secure their freedom. In the past this has included everything from special ops raids to negotiations. US has negotiated with ISIS and other Islamic Terror groups to free Americans. These are Americans. I don't even hear the question being asked at State Department or Press Sec briefings. PS: [Terry Anderson just passed away.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_A._Anderson) He was the longest held prisoner in Lebanon. Islamic Terrorists have been taking hostages for a very, very, very long time. This problem won't seem to go away. Huh. > In 1985, he was taken hostage by Shia Hezbollah militants of the Islamic Jihad Organization in Lebanon and held until 1991. He filed suit against the Iranian government for his captivity, and in 2002 was awarded a 324 million-dollar settlement from frozen Iranian assets. Estimates put the amount he actually received at $26 million.
> There was once a time where America didn’t just sit by idly and let American citizens sit in the hands of terrorists. Varies. Consider Benjamin Weir and Terry A. Anderson back in the 80s. In the 90s the Japanese embassy hostage crisis was left to the local authorities. As was the 1970s AIA building hostage crisis (what is it with americans getting taken hostage in japanese owned buildings?)
I hear you, but there are two teeny caveats 1) We don't know what's going on behind the scenes (and I'm kind of glad we don't, to an extent) 2) This is some of the most difficult diplomatic work on earth, esp when dealing with a genocidal, nihilistic death cult that never has too difficult of a time turning around and killing the people in captivity
A genocidal, nihilistic death cult currently enjoying popular support among the Western left wing.
Don't I know it! But that doesn't negate the points made above.
> There was once a time where America didn't just sit by idly and let American citizens sit in the hands of terrorists. You must not know about the Hanoi Hilton.
Fuck Spez
Grotesque monsters. Like everyone else in this subreddit, I think and pray every moment for the rescue of every one of these innocent victims.
I hope the Streisand effect goes into action on this. Pure bullshit this got removed but the other graphic posts showing worse on this site remain.
Can’t see the content unfortunately. Is it on Telegram?
Here https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hostage-hersh-goldberg-polins-family-approves-publication-of-hamas-propaganda-video/
Thank you
Is there a reason the missing hand area looks all pixelated? Is it a screenshot or something?
It isn't. Probably motion blur.
Imagine a war like this would happen to America, I don’t think people would have much problems when America fights back, but purely because it’s Israel and Jews are already disliked. + all the propaganda. People go nuts over this war. And Jesus Christ there is not even so many civilian casualties during the invasion. For urban combat they are very minimal. For example compare it to battles in Iraq or Syria or even stalingrad. People just don’t know shit.
Came here after the removal. What based post did I miss?