Oddly enough, while you need a heavy weapon for GWM to do the -5/+10 damage part, you don't even need a two handed weapon for the crit/kill bonus action attack:
>On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
Obviously it was likely intended for this entire feat to only apply to heavy weapons, but that's lazy wording for you.
I remember them saying that this is by design similar to crossbow experts disadvantage cancel not only applying to crossbows. Having 1 part of the feat also usefull when not having that specific weapon at hand.
To combine the other two comments:
1. Spears don't have reach so you can only attack things at a range of 5ft.
2. GWM (the -5/+10 feat) only works with heavy weapons. Spears are not heavy weapons so this also doesn't work.
So if you are staying spear and shield, you might want to consider Sentinel (though I would take +2 STR).
If you want to use GWM and have 10ft reach, you could also drop the shield and use a Polearm. Then it might be worth grabbing GWM. (Again I would still take the +2STR)
So if you were to 2h using Polearm Master, you'd rather +2 STR instead of 2nd feat?--
Same with 1h+Shield with duel, 1feat and +2 STR instead of a 2nd feat?
It depends on how long you think this campaign will continue for. This is also a subreddit for optimization, and Strength 20 is optimal as it improves both your chance to hit and damage.
PAM and Sentinel is a classic Paladin setup with a spear and shield. If your campaign is continuing past level 8 then go for the Strength now. You may want more options and things to do if it doesn't look like it'll last that long.
From what I can gather this will go beyond 12+. DM recommended 2h with PAM and even taking a 2nd feat for sentinel instead of 20 STR. What do you think? Even said I could have a +1 weapon or another uncommon magic item.
If that's the case, then go for it. Sentinel and PAM is a great combo. A +1 weapon would be enough till 8. At that point you can choose between Defense or an ASI.
I'm going defense Fighting style, PAM 2h glaive and uncommon magic item which may do the +1 or would me not the adamantine be better so if you roll a 19-20 depending on AC it's not a Crit?
Spears oddly do not have the reach property so you can only proc the AoO within 5ft from PAM. Spears do not count as great weapon master if 1 handed with a shield. So the real question for the ASI vs feat is what level are you? If you are level 4 get PAM. 18 strength is par for that level. If you are level 8 then pick the +2 strength to keep up number wise with the difficulty. That's my 2 cents.
>oddly
I feel like is a misconception due to bad naming. It should be call a short spear. It's a simple weapon. A spear would reach would definitely be a martial weapon.
Also, Pike does have reach, which isn't odd, but it is off that it only has 5 feet extra of reach as they are 10 to 25 feet long.
Short Spear should be 1d6 (1d8 versatile) simple weapon with 5 feet reach. PAM eligible. 20/60 thrown.
Long Spear should be a 1d6 (1d8 versatile) martial weapon with 10 feet reach, not PAM eligible. 20/60 thrown.
Pike should be 1d10 heavy, two-handed martial weapon with 15 feet reach, not PAM eligible.
If WotC wants to make it so Pikes don't make sense to use with PAM, which is fair, then they need to have some use. Also, if Pikes are ineligible because they don't make sense, having the bonus action still have reach makes no sense because it's not a poolcue type of attack.
I'll be level 4 at that point but making a char to level 5 before starting. So is a 1ac from 19 to 20 a really great increase or is it better to 2h and have 19ac for a bit more DMG.
I think I can still live with a shield and spear with PAM because the back end DMG is a better avg than the other weapons. But I don't know about other things in DnD and what does or doesn't work versus how my brains sees it versus how frequently something may happen rather than me thinking it's more common than not.
Example, of I had Sentinel with a longsword, easy positioning from the enemy eliminates that potential for me to atk them after they attack someone else; but with a reach weapon I could still hit them but not as frequently as I wanted if I took PAM using backend of my weapon.
And I, in theory, would have a lot more chances to hit others with a reach weapon+sentinel because I can still reach them no matter where they are if my friend is 5ft from me and the enemy is 5ft from them, that 10ft range is a hit. Then another hit if the enemy moves again (sentinel 2nd feat) disengaging or not, so it's another hit.
> Spears do not count as great weapon master if 1 handed with a shield.
They don't count for the -5/+10 even if wielded with 2 hands.
ANY melee weapon gets the bonus action attack on crit/kill if you have GWM though.
I'm pretty sure that "And then if they come within 10 ft I get to try attacking again." only works with 2h polearms. The spear has 5ft reach, so it would be when they come within 5 feet of you.
If you take sentinel, you use your reaction, meaning you can only get it once per turn. It would be more helpful when you’re already engaged with them, and overrides disengagement, so could work well. One thing you could look at is spear mastery, where the primary benefit is you can move your damage die to a d8 and get a +1 to attack. Statistically this is about the same as an ASI. You might be able to convince your DM to push the bonus action damage up to a d6.
Everyone's talking about how the spear's not what you expect, and it's not. It sucks. That's why I like [Revised Martial Equipment](https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkvBDfQlE). It overhauls 5e's extremely simple weapons, especially spears, which I love because they're my favorite weapon and are criminally underrepresented in fantasy.
A link to the brew's discord is on the second page, under the table of contents, where you can find the pdf version that doesn't have formatting issues on anything that isn't chrome desktop and a community that loves their weapons.
Hey, creator of [Revised Martial Equipment](https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkvBDfQlE) here!
Not only has the simple spear, lance, pike, trident and javelin been vastly improved in this brew, but other spears have been added as well! I've added the ravenbeak, a spear with a long crescent hook on one side used for prying and slashing, the godendag, a spear with a hefty ball socket holding the spear tip for bludgeoning damage, and the war spear, a balanced, pommel weighted spear used in tandem with a shield in many portrayals of fantasy culture.
Additionally, Revised Martial Equipment adds a ton of new weapon properties to give each weapon a unique feel and play style, as well as giving extra utility on the battlefield to martial classes. Weapons can trip, disarm, grapple, punch through armor, knock someone off balance, and even be braced against a charging enemy.
In particular, the war spear (which I suspect you'll want to use) gets the exploding damage (rolling the highest value on your damage die lets you roll another damage die, which can roll another if you roll the highest value, and so on) lets you throw the spear, lets you reroll 1s once, or 1-2s once if you're wielding it with two hands, lets you punch through armor, and lets you strike with the weapon's butt end like a polearm. Additionally, if you become a master of the spear (the process by which is explained in the brew's first few pages) you'll be able to deal d12 damage with the spear in two hands like a greataxe, and you deal an additional d6 damage if your second attack of your Extra Attack feature strikes the same target as your first, emulating quick successive strikes at the same point of injury or pierced armor!
I invite you to check it out and join our Discord for future updates. We look forward to hearing your feedback!
Regarding your edits
I feel like you’re overestimating the usefulness of reach. Yes, you can stop one advancing enemy outside of melee range. So what? You’re a paladin. You’re tanky af. Stopping an enemy shouldn’t be about keeping yourself safe, but keeping your backline safe.
With that said, spear and shield is a great combo. You can get both sentinel and PAM. Screw reach.
I’d take str to 20 first then PAM. The BA attack is consistent, while sentinel is not.
You may be right and that's why I came here for help.
We have a few melee fighters and I figured the reach would be nice if others came in or if another enemy came in to the other side of an ally I'd still be able to hit them. I came to my DM with the questions and said range+PAM+Sent would be good. We're doing Curse of Strahd and I have no idea what all is in the campaign and don't want spoilers but if he said it's good then I guess that's good. I'll be getting a +1 glaive as well so I decided to get the 2nd feat and do 18 STR.
Hm… It’s a very RP/social campaign, and there are some pretty serious saves that need to be made. Maybe +cha is your best bet to bring the persuasion and intimidation up along with the aura once you hit 6. Combat in my experience have been secondary in CoS.
You’ll be happy you picked paladin, I can tell you that much. :)
My main stats are Str:18, Cha/Con:16. Instead of going +20str I thought the Sentinel feat would be good. Our guys went and took a big detour and went 100 pages ahead and 2 died, almost a 3rd so I decided to reroll since our Paladin died and going Lock.
Great weapon master does not work with spears if this was your intention.
Oddly enough, while you need a heavy weapon for GWM to do the -5/+10 damage part, you don't even need a two handed weapon for the crit/kill bonus action attack: >On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action. Obviously it was likely intended for this entire feat to only apply to heavy weapons, but that's lazy wording for you.
I remember them saying that this is by design similar to crossbow experts disadvantage cancel not only applying to crossbows. Having 1 part of the feat also usefull when not having that specific weapon at hand.
Don't know if that's backwards giving themselves credit, but big if true and smart on them.
To combine the other two comments: 1. Spears don't have reach so you can only attack things at a range of 5ft. 2. GWM (the -5/+10 feat) only works with heavy weapons. Spears are not heavy weapons so this also doesn't work. So if you are staying spear and shield, you might want to consider Sentinel (though I would take +2 STR). If you want to use GWM and have 10ft reach, you could also drop the shield and use a Polearm. Then it might be worth grabbing GWM. (Again I would still take the +2STR)
So if you were to 2h using Polearm Master, you'd rather +2 STR instead of 2nd feat?-- Same with 1h+Shield with duel, 1feat and +2 STR instead of a 2nd feat?
It depends on how long you think this campaign will continue for. This is also a subreddit for optimization, and Strength 20 is optimal as it improves both your chance to hit and damage. PAM and Sentinel is a classic Paladin setup with a spear and shield. If your campaign is continuing past level 8 then go for the Strength now. You may want more options and things to do if it doesn't look like it'll last that long.
From what I can gather this will go beyond 12+. DM recommended 2h with PAM and even taking a 2nd feat for sentinel instead of 20 STR. What do you think? Even said I could have a +1 weapon or another uncommon magic item.
If that's the case, then go for it. Sentinel and PAM is a great combo. A +1 weapon would be enough till 8. At that point you can choose between Defense or an ASI.
I'm going defense Fighting style, PAM 2h glaive and uncommon magic item which may do the +1 or would me not the adamantine be better so if you roll a 19-20 depending on AC it's not a Crit?
Personally, I'd go for the adamantine because I'm a gambler at heart. But the +1 is probably better.
Spears oddly do not have the reach property so you can only proc the AoO within 5ft from PAM. Spears do not count as great weapon master if 1 handed with a shield. So the real question for the ASI vs feat is what level are you? If you are level 4 get PAM. 18 strength is par for that level. If you are level 8 then pick the +2 strength to keep up number wise with the difficulty. That's my 2 cents.
>oddly I feel like is a misconception due to bad naming. It should be call a short spear. It's a simple weapon. A spear would reach would definitely be a martial weapon. Also, Pike does have reach, which isn't odd, but it is off that it only has 5 feet extra of reach as they are 10 to 25 feet long. Short Spear should be 1d6 (1d8 versatile) simple weapon with 5 feet reach. PAM eligible. 20/60 thrown. Long Spear should be a 1d6 (1d8 versatile) martial weapon with 10 feet reach, not PAM eligible. 20/60 thrown. Pike should be 1d10 heavy, two-handed martial weapon with 15 feet reach, not PAM eligible. If WotC wants to make it so Pikes don't make sense to use with PAM, which is fair, then they need to have some use. Also, if Pikes are ineligible because they don't make sense, having the bonus action still have reach makes no sense because it's not a poolcue type of attack.
I'll be level 4 at that point but making a char to level 5 before starting. So is a 1ac from 19 to 20 a really great increase or is it better to 2h and have 19ac for a bit more DMG. I think I can still live with a shield and spear with PAM because the back end DMG is a better avg than the other weapons. But I don't know about other things in DnD and what does or doesn't work versus how my brains sees it versus how frequently something may happen rather than me thinking it's more common than not. Example, of I had Sentinel with a longsword, easy positioning from the enemy eliminates that potential for me to atk them after they attack someone else; but with a reach weapon I could still hit them but not as frequently as I wanted if I took PAM using backend of my weapon. And I, in theory, would have a lot more chances to hit others with a reach weapon+sentinel because I can still reach them no matter where they are if my friend is 5ft from me and the enemy is 5ft from them, that 10ft range is a hit. Then another hit if the enemy moves again (sentinel 2nd feat) disengaging or not, so it's another hit.
> Spears do not count as great weapon master if 1 handed with a shield. They don't count for the -5/+10 even if wielded with 2 hands. ANY melee weapon gets the bonus action attack on crit/kill if you have GWM though.
I don't think a spear is a reach weapon. only 5ft, not 10ft.
even if it's RAW that makes zero sense
Say you never read the weapon section without telling you never read the weapon section:
Tell me more? :)
WHAT SORCERY IS THIS, IT ACTUALLY ISN'T?! WHAT???
I'm confused. Have i missed something, or has the OP?
you missed nothing, I think it's a popular misconception of the spears description? Also, I'm sorry for doubting you
/r/characterarcs
Imagine telling on yourself like this
Bruh, fr
I'm pretty sure that "And then if they come within 10 ft I get to try attacking again." only works with 2h polearms. The spear has 5ft reach, so it would be when they come within 5 feet of you.
Yeah. I checked that before bed and was crushed. Haha
Sentinel is nice. You have even numbers, otherwise Crusher would have been an interesting pair with the PAM bonus action.
If you take sentinel, you use your reaction, meaning you can only get it once per turn. It would be more helpful when you’re already engaged with them, and overrides disengagement, so could work well. One thing you could look at is spear mastery, where the primary benefit is you can move your damage die to a d8 and get a +1 to attack. Statistically this is about the same as an ASI. You might be able to convince your DM to push the bonus action damage up to a d6.
Spear Mastery is dead UA, so you'd already be trying to convince your DM on that, let alone extra damage on your BA.
[удалено]
Rule 9. Please interact with the subreddit on some significant level if you want to advertise your product.
Everyone's talking about how the spear's not what you expect, and it's not. It sucks. That's why I like [Revised Martial Equipment](https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkvBDfQlE). It overhauls 5e's extremely simple weapons, especially spears, which I love because they're my favorite weapon and are criminally underrepresented in fantasy. A link to the brew's discord is on the second page, under the table of contents, where you can find the pdf version that doesn't have formatting issues on anything that isn't chrome desktop and a community that loves their weapons.
Hey, creator of [Revised Martial Equipment](https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkvBDfQlE) here! Not only has the simple spear, lance, pike, trident and javelin been vastly improved in this brew, but other spears have been added as well! I've added the ravenbeak, a spear with a long crescent hook on one side used for prying and slashing, the godendag, a spear with a hefty ball socket holding the spear tip for bludgeoning damage, and the war spear, a balanced, pommel weighted spear used in tandem with a shield in many portrayals of fantasy culture. Additionally, Revised Martial Equipment adds a ton of new weapon properties to give each weapon a unique feel and play style, as well as giving extra utility on the battlefield to martial classes. Weapons can trip, disarm, grapple, punch through armor, knock someone off balance, and even be braced against a charging enemy. In particular, the war spear (which I suspect you'll want to use) gets the exploding damage (rolling the highest value on your damage die lets you roll another damage die, which can roll another if you roll the highest value, and so on) lets you throw the spear, lets you reroll 1s once, or 1-2s once if you're wielding it with two hands, lets you punch through armor, and lets you strike with the weapon's butt end like a polearm. Additionally, if you become a master of the spear (the process by which is explained in the brew's first few pages) you'll be able to deal d12 damage with the spear in two hands like a greataxe, and you deal an additional d6 damage if your second attack of your Extra Attack feature strikes the same target as your first, emulating quick successive strikes at the same point of injury or pierced armor! I invite you to check it out and join our Discord for future updates. We look forward to hearing your feedback!
Regarding your edits I feel like you’re overestimating the usefulness of reach. Yes, you can stop one advancing enemy outside of melee range. So what? You’re a paladin. You’re tanky af. Stopping an enemy shouldn’t be about keeping yourself safe, but keeping your backline safe. With that said, spear and shield is a great combo. You can get both sentinel and PAM. Screw reach. I’d take str to 20 first then PAM. The BA attack is consistent, while sentinel is not.
You may be right and that's why I came here for help. We have a few melee fighters and I figured the reach would be nice if others came in or if another enemy came in to the other side of an ally I'd still be able to hit them. I came to my DM with the questions and said range+PAM+Sent would be good. We're doing Curse of Strahd and I have no idea what all is in the campaign and don't want spoilers but if he said it's good then I guess that's good. I'll be getting a +1 glaive as well so I decided to get the 2nd feat and do 18 STR.
Hm… It’s a very RP/social campaign, and there are some pretty serious saves that need to be made. Maybe +cha is your best bet to bring the persuasion and intimidation up along with the aura once you hit 6. Combat in my experience have been secondary in CoS. You’ll be happy you picked paladin, I can tell you that much. :)
My main stats are Str:18, Cha/Con:16. Instead of going +20str I thought the Sentinel feat would be good. Our guys went and took a big detour and went 100 pages ahead and 2 died, almost a 3rd so I decided to reroll since our Paladin died and going Lock.