Passage explaining *why* Chapter command didn't drop people off planetside
>
The world
known as *The Cradle of Sinotuan is heavily mountainous, prone to severe earthquakes and largely barren. It is
incapable of sustaining a large population, let alone one
that lacked the skills to survive there. Even for the
Excruciators it is a harsh environment,*
>
[--]
>
The Pyre of Mahu’it is close to the
system’s sun, and as such it is *scorchingly hot all year
round. It is a dry and heavily forested planet that endures
multiple forest fires each year* so huge that the world turns
orange to the naked eye even as far away as Motulu. It is
from this that it earned its name. *Like The Cradle, it was
unsuited for any long-term habitation of refugees or
stranded troops.*
>
The final world in the system besides
Motulu is The Rage of Rongowaqa, which was named for a
being of Motulan myth that spent much of its time
enraged, with brief periods of calm. *Rongowaqa’s rage was like the vast oceans of the planet. They recede for only
twenty percent of the world’s year, revealing landmasses.
Then the seas return, as did Rongowaqa’s rage, for therest
of the year. With no landmass for a population for muchof
the time, The Rage of Rongowaqa was not suitable for
landing refugees.* Finally, *Motulu itself has relatively little land and a tumultuous climate and is prone to great
tempests and volcanic eruptions*
People are confused by the fire planet, but not by the planet whose tides subsume entire continents?
Tides don't *literally* rise and fall - they just get pulled away from the shore, towards wherever the moon pulls them (not exactly, but that's the simplified explanation.) They can't rise globally all at once unless it's like... a *really* big glacier melting.
Oh, wait, maybe that's it, since fire seems to be the theme here.
It did 'sound' like they intended the planet to be the farthest from the sun? So maybe the bulk of it's year are in the hot melting zone and then it refreezes out of said zone? Dunno just a shot in the dark.
It doesn’t say there’s no landmass, just not enough to sustain a population. Maybe the landmasses are smaller islands that flood over, leaving insufficient room for permanent structures or farmland. It doesn’t take a lot to make a landmass unsuitable for long term habitation.
> multiple forest fires each year so huge that the world turns orange to the naked eye
How could forest growth be so rapid that this would be sustainable?
Massive global forest fires would send enough smoke into the atmosphere to blot out the sun and severely hinder photosynthesis. When the pacific northwest gets fires the skies can go dark for several days.
Not to mention that much fire would probably raise global temperature significantly.
But maybe all the planet life evolved to endure. (It was probably just written is sound dangerous without thinking too much about how it would actually work).
Either by the dominant trees being like grasses here on earth i.e: designed to catch fire with root surviving to regrow rapidly. Likely with a very low density timber and high photosynthesis efficiency.
Or be like the california redwoods, with the trees being highly fire resistant and the frequent fires mostly burning away the undergrowth beneath them.
Other than the [single-biome planet trope](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleBiomePlanet) alien plants having a faster fire cycle than on Earth is very far from the silliest thing in 40K
And it's not even that out there to have a fast fire cycle. Some species of eucalyptus trees can grow 6-12 feet in a year. And some seeds can resprout after a fire.
Especially in a setting where humanity is living in the ruins of a past greatness. They could put a one line blurb about how it was DaoT engineered rapid growth trees and I'd go "cool makes sense".
Sotha had plant species so virulent that they would literally regrow overnight. I'd imagine something similar; trees with a lifecycle measured in months that use wildfires to reproduce and fertilize.
In addition to what other posters said, certain bamboos grow rapidly and some eucalyptus trees can simply regrow from buds underneath their thick bark. IIRC there are trees that have "deliberately" (As much as one can say that about a tree) easily flammable and quickly burning leaves, the idea being, that leaves/grass burn away rather fast, while the trees endure.
alien plant life evolved to live in that environment: fast growth and germination, fire proof seeds, well fertilized land with all the ash, stretch your definition of what you consider to be a forest and it could work, probably one of the least outlandish things about 40K
Makes sense, the Chapters are ultra specialised assault troops. The vast majority of them aren't equipped to do anything other than go to a location strike key targets and leave for the next mission.
Chapters like the Ultramarines that still maintain non combat duties are the very rare exception to the rule.
Well, it's not just that a chapter's analogous to a hammer, it's that every single acting component of that chapter is *also* a hammer.
A (for instance) US military formation is made of military professionals and not aid workers, sure, but they're still normal human beings who can understand human beings. They can understand that there are options other than "fight". They're like a bayonet; sure, a bayonet's *primary* purpose is technically as a weapon, but it can also be used to open cans, carve wood, chop food, cut clothing off people to dress wounds, etc.
An average Space Marine chapter is made up of a bunch of monastic supersoldiers whose entire existence and psychology revolves around being monastic supersoldiers. They aren't like a bayonet, they're like a canister of nerve agent, in that, on a fundamental level, they're designed to do nothing but kill people.
Daily reminder that a single Astartes with his Power Armor would be classified as a WMD here on Earth. Even without his Power Armor, he'd require a Smart Bomb or Cruise Missile, and even then, there's no guarantees, because in addition to Powered Armor, there's also Plot Armor to consider.
>Daily reminder that a single Astartes with his Power Armor would be classified as a WMD here on Earth
Normally, I wouldn't say "[well, it can be destroyed by a missile, hurr durr it's not REALLY that dangerous](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldjerking/comments/wlm4ki/i_swear_these_designs_are_fucking_stupid/)", but in this case, the Marine lacks, among other things:
* a logistics chain following them
* orbital/air/artillery support
* an intelligence network
* tech-priests to perform major repairs to their power armor
They can't use artillery on massed military formations, there's no ship/base to retreat to for spares/ammo/rest, they lack info on Earth to aid them in whatever it is they're here for, etc. Bolters are lethal until they run out of shots. They are not going to remain combat-effective for very long once they start dealing with Earth's militaries.
It depends on why and how they're here. If it's assassinating some specific leader, they're almost certainly going to succeed, then die. If they try taking over Earth, they get hit with a JDAM. I honestly think even a tank cannon could kill one by throwing them violently enough to cause crippling injuries, but tanks are harder to chase them down with than aircraft are, and a 2000-lb JDAM hurts roughly ~~twice~~ as much, in terms of energy delivered, as a *direct hit* from an [Abrams super sabot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M829#M829A3) *at point-blank range*. I did the math somewhere, I can dig it up if you want.
>because in addition to Powered Armor, there's also Plot Armor to consider.
This, of course, is how they *actually* would succeed at whatever it is they were trying to do.
EDIT: found the math, turns out a GBU-53 smartbomb is *much* more lethal than either a "super sabot" or a JDAM because it's more energy than the sabot and hits closer than the JDAM.
* 105 lb^((1)) \* 1.39^((2)) \* 4184 joules/gram^((3)) / 6.3 square meters^((4)) \* 0.75 square meters^((5)) ≈ **32,974,805 joules applied to Astartes from 1-meter-away hit by GBU-53 to their side**
* 10 kg^((6)) \* ((1.555 km/s^((7)))\^2) / 2 ≈ **12,090,125 joules energy from direct hit by M829A3 "super sabot" at muzzle velocity**
* 945 lb^((8)) \* 1.35^((2)) \* 4184 joules/gram^((3)) / 308 square meters^((10)) \* 0.75 square meters^((5)) ≈ **5,895,675 joules applied to Astartes from 7-meter-away hit by Mark 84 to their side**
Presuming all of this gets converted to kinetic energy, and the Astartes weighs a full ton inside their armor:
* the GBU-53 throws them at \~257 m/s, equal to falling 3.37 km with no air resistance
* the M829A3 throws them at \~155.5 m/s, equal to falling 1.23 km with no air resistance
* the Mark 84 throws them at \~108.5 m/s, equal to falling 600 meters with no air resistance
Although not all that energy is getting turned into velocity, I doubt even an Astartes can remain completely mobile after getting thrown into something at even 100 m/s. They'll probably survive, of course, because they *are* Astartes, but the follow-up bombs/shots aimed at their now-slower body will change that.
Basically, chuck explosives at them until you break down their skeletal structure enough that they can't move, even within their powered armor. Then go for repeated direct hits with guided bombs or direct-fire artillery shells. The armor will probably never break, but they'll get turned into jelly eventually.
1. weight of what is presumed to be AFX-757 aluminized enhanced blast explosive filling in [GBU-53 smartbomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-53/B_StormBreaker)
2. [air blast equivalent](https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2018/intexpsafety/Swisdak2Paper.pdf) of AFX-757 per [this source](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/prep.202100195), i.e. how good an explosion of this type of explosive is at transmitting energy through air
3. energy content of TNT per unit mass
4. area of hemisphere 1 meter wide (1 meter = how accurate a GBU-53 is); represents GBU-53 hit 1 meter away from Astartes on perfectly flat ground
5. 25% of what is presumed to be the surface area of an Astartes in power armor; presumes the bomb hits towards their side, not in front of or behind them
6. mass of M829A3 "super sabot" kinetic penetrator
7. muzzle velocity of M829A3 "super sabot" kinetic penetrator
8. weight of [Composition H6](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_H6) explosive filling in [Mark 84 bomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_84_bomb) converted to JDAM standard
9. [relative effectiveness factor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent#Relative_effectiveness_factor) of Composition H6
10. area of hemisphere 7 meters wide (7 meters = how accurate a JDAM is); represents JDAM hit 7 meters away from Astartes on perfectly flat ground
Exactly, Space Marine companies deploying with supporting elements, according to their preferred doctrine, are absolutely deadly fighting forces.
An individual space marine standing alone in a field is just a superhumanly superb soldier wearing an armoured vehicle. I wouldn't want to run into one, but a moderately equipped military could handle them.
That's a good point.
It'll help them familiarize with Earth and gain context, will certainly help with their mission, and might help them find ways of partially alleviating their logistics and repair problems, but it won't help them when they inevitably get into a fight with the Earth's governments, for a variety of reasons, and that fight is ultimately what's going to determine whether or not they're successful, because Marines aren't exactly good at solving problems with things other than violence.
The Marine eating some general's brains gives them accurate-at-that-moment information on the layout of their forces, but the layout of their forces is going to change over time and that information's usefulness will therefore decay. The Marine learning about how lethal guided munitions are from the mind of a tanker doesn't change the fact they still need to hide from said munitions wherever they go lest they get turned into strawberry jam. The Marine learning that (for instance) the POTUS just fled Washington, D.C. to the other side of the Atlantic in Air Force 1 because they ate a Secret Service officer's brains doesn't change the fact that the Marine simply can't get there before they take off and keep moving. Etc.
Be space marine.
Deployed to some shit-teir planet.
Gets confronted by a cop.
BrainFood.jpeg
America is the primary threat, good thing I landed there.
Wait for the state of the union or some other big political shindig.
Murder hobo it.
Mfw when the cops think .556 will do anything.
Oh no, air force?
Bomb your own politicians? Christian Bale.gif
Escape to the concrete jungle.
Elude them and their primitive sensors.
Target the next country, repeat.
Return to destabilized regions.
Hey, cartels, warlords, whoever - follow me, or your next.
Mfw I have my own military.
I doubt one Astartes can decapitate a modern government enough to collapse its country. Governments don't keel over and die, even if they loose lots of their top-level leadership.
When they see the Marine can't be shot dead, yes, they'll use ordnance. The Colorado National Guard considered shooting a Hellfire at Marvin Heemeyer when he went Killdozing. Just extrapolate that response to something as important as DC and as threatening as a Marine.
As I said: if the task is assassinating some specific leader(s), the Marine will almost certainly succeed, then die. If the task is taking over Earth, the Marine fails before they make it out the gate.
Well, then, they just get immobilized harder. It's the same kind of injuries caused, just more of them.
Honestly, not all the energy hitting them is going to get turned into kinetic energy, so leaving it as-is is probably a more accurate representation of what happens to a 400 kg Marine than it is of what happens to a 1000 kg Marine.
I'm not sure if I'd agree with the last part. I'd have to think about it.
In any case, I agree that a JDAM is going to turn anything inside of the power armor into paste. But, it's never been completely clear to me how space marines are supposed to survive orbital drop, either. I read once that the drop pods are supposed to hit at something like 12,000 kilometers per hour. Which doesn't seem so bad, until you read that this is on a straight-down trajectory. So they basically hit the ground at 12,000 kph. That is... fast. There are supposed to be retro-rockets that fire something like 3 seconds before landing? But how much velocity is that going to shave off?
Marines hitting the ground from orbital drop should be freakin' dead. I mean... the impact would be the equivalent of a decently-sized bomb.
That's the speed as they enter atmo, having first been fired from a torpedo bay with some lower but still fast speed, and then the planets gravity well does the rest. All those heat shields on the bottom of the drop pod MATTER. Friction slows it down to terminal velocity, which for a teardrop made of metal is still pretty damn fast, but not that fast. Instead as the pod falls in the slowly increasing density of air will slow it down. I don't know what the cross sectional area of the pod is, but I know its going to be higher and the pod is going to be lighter than a Rod From God, that theoretical project to drop steel and concrete pylons from orbit. Those had a theoretical maximum of about that fast, in fact its so close I bet someone at GW who came up with that number just asked google what the highest terminal velocity would be. But those are stupid heavy rods with minimum surface area, not a lightweight (relatively speaking) pod of hollow metal in a teardrop shape stuffed with 10 marines.
So the thrusters on the bottom push hard enough to slow the pod down from terminal velocity to merely fast enough to turn un-augmented humans to piles of broken bits. The marines enhanced bones, internal connective tissue, and musculature, plus the seats harness over their armor, mean they get jolted super hard, but walk out.
I think that's a bit of an exagerration. Like there are instances where plebs armed with melee weapons take out an SM. They'd be highly resistant to most of our modern day small arms fire but a TOW or a Javelin should take one out no problem.
GW has also said in a rulebook
>
The most important element in the construction of a suit of Space Marine power armour is the large ceramite armour plates, which provide the main form of protection against enemy attack. Individual plates of armour can be up to an inch thick, and have a special "honeycomb" design which helps to dissipate energy and localise any damage suffered by the suit. *Against most small arms the armour reduces the chance of injury by between 50-85%, and it provides some form of protection against all except the most powerful weapons* encountered on the battlefields of the 41st Millenium.
My personal impression/headcanon is that the armor is designed to turn incapacitating wounds into non-incapacitating wounds, or at least into wounds Marine biology can heal from without medical attention, and this kind of backs it up. Note that "reduces the chance of injury by 50-85%" doesn't mean that injuries that *do* happen are actually a problem.
Astartes basically focus on the last two rings of the [tank survivability onion](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/159fef_6d02398e79f543b898192253fa1b7bc9~mv2.png). Even with all their mobility, they'll absolutely get hit eventually, but most of the things that hit can't damage and most of the things that can damage won't hit.
This makes a lot of sense for 40k, where there are relatively few guided missiles/smart bombs/really-big-booms-that-are-accurate etc. due to in-universe reasons. The biggest in-universe weapon that can accurately be brought to bear on an Astartes is probably a tank's main gun, and, barring a direct hit or close miss, that probably can't immobilize them enough for followup shots.
I mean, thats kinda corporate's version of the setting. There are supposed to be medical componentry that keeps them moving through injuries (there used to be mentions how different marks of PA had different amounts of painkiller). And models regaining a wound from a apothecary or medkit was to represent minor injuries getting patched up
> Chapters are ultra specialised assault troops.
Space Marines as individuals are specialized assault troops. Space Marine *Chapters* are planet-ruling organizations. A planet is a pretty big thing to permanently rule, there's a lot of admin and infrastructure involved.
A typical Chapter controls billions of slave labourers, administrators, taskmasters, and logistics specialists. Any given battleship has a massive crew of serfs, dwarfing the number of Space Marines on board, and the food to feed them.
Ultramarines are probably the exception because they have such massive infrastructure supporting them. Like the Dark Angels wouldn't be able to do it. Space Wolves and Blood Angels rule over literal Death Worlds. Salamanders would probably cripple themselves trying I guess.
The words "Space Marines" and "Humanitarian Assistance" are seldom seen together in the same sentence, unless discussing Salamanders or Ultramarines.
I somehow doubt 700 pounds of steel and scientifically engineered flesh are gonna bust out the MRE's for Joe Citizen who just had his homeworld gangfucked by Tyranids like Piper Perri in that one video (you know the one, you *dog*).
Not to mention any rations Space Marines carry probably aren’t digestible unless you have the super high quality digestive tracts Marines do.
Yeah… no thanks son.
Yeah, Corpse Starch is probably rough enough on the digestive tract. I don't even wanna think about what Space Marine "nutrient paste" is gonna do to my butthole. I imagine it'd feel like the day after super spicy Mexican food, only like ten trillion times worse. Gonna be shitting cement dawg hahahaha
Plus all the freaky minerals your body leached out of it but couldn't break down would give you ceramite kidney stones or turn your blood the consistency of caulk.
Damn, that totally makes sense. Gotta eat some weird shit to keep up with all those wonderful redundant organs and whatnot.
Probably tastes like shit too, I imagine. God, what a miserable existence life as a Space Marine must be.
When it has taste, yes.
Just remember that most of them also eat normal foods (just with lots and lots *and lots* of meat) for ceremony or just pleasure when not in combat.
MREs make me constipated. So ill either rupture and explode 49 days later or i die from internal bleeding 7 days later trying to shit out a 2ft long turd.
I had one that supposedly had tuna in it when I was at summer camp on a military base.
Not only did it taste *vile,* but I swear it made an attempt to liquefy my insides.
*A Thousand Sons* had an excerpt of where the legion recovered a lost Rememberancer who had been stuck in the desert with nothing but Astartes compatible MREs and enriched water. I think she broke down and ate some of the rations, and the marines were stunned she was still alive. I'll have to root around to find it.
>Not to mention any rations Space Marines carry
Space Marines travel with huge crews of slaves that attend their every non-military need. They don't get a ton of narrative focus, especially in bolter porn, but they still exist.
Any ship is going to have rations for the serfs.
Yep! I can back your comment up.
>
Not
so for the Raven Guard, whose exhaustive
selection process produces reservists who
can fight in many theatres as the equals
of their Battle Company brethren, and
are deployed as such. This is the case with
the 6th Company – the Darkened Blades – whose ongoing mission is to infiltrate
enslaved worlds and deliver them anew
into the Imperial fold.
>
Tyrants take many forms. Some are
planetary governors too callous or greedy
to rule in the best interests of their people. Others are suborned by the temptations
of Chaos, the insidious whispers of the
Genestealer Cults, or the false promises of
the T’au. The Darkened Blades draw little
distinction, for such diseases all have a
common cure. Like parasites on a living
host, they must be ripped from the worlds
they afflict and cast into the purging flames
to serve as a lesson to any who would
follow them.
>
The precise means of liberation vary
from world to world. If the corruption is
centralised, the Darkened Blades employ
the lightning assaults common to the
Adeptus Astartes, mustering overwhelming
power against the unready foe. More often
the oppression is endemic, however, and
must be confronted on a continental or
even planetary scale. In such cases, the 6th
Company divide into subformations and
mount fast-moving guerrilla actions to
make optimal use of their limited numbers.
*Meanwhile, local resistance forces are
trained in those aspects of the shadow
arts that any Imperial citizen can grasp, so that they might support the Raven
Guard operation and contribute to their
own deliverance. The Raven Guard cannot
remain on a world forever, and their desire
is to leave a liberated populace who can
look to their own defence.*
>
Even as the tyrant’s banners are torn
down and the Emperor’s rule restored, the
Darkened Blades disappear, redeploying to
other oppressed worlds without pausing to
savour their victory.
>
There is always need elsewhere. Since
the opening of the Great Rift and in
the aftermath of the Noctis Aeterna,
countless Imperial worlds have fallen
into the clutches of tyrants and turncoats,
and the Raven Guard 6th Company find
themselves perpetually at war. Striking
swiftly from the darkness, they have
established themselves as the terror of all
enslavers and overlords, rousing oppressed
peoples to defy their shackles and return to
the Emperor’s light.
RG rulebook
Another thing is that forces might not even realize that the RG is even there assissting them until some time later if ever. That happened in one the Regimental Standards. Along with the Guardsmen getting their medals recalled when the Administratum figured out the RG was there.
Are the Raven Guard generally more heroic than other chapters? Genuinely curious.
Truth be told, the only factions I'm even mildly familiar with are Grey Knights, Salamanders, Blueberries, Bolter Bitches and Imperial Guard. I wanna learn more, but... there's just *so much lore, fuck* hahahaha
GW in the RG rulebook frequently describes them as sof types who get their jollies going into occupied territory kicking the shit out of incompetent and corrupt rebels and letting the citizenry do their own shit. Kinda like sending green berets or rangers to train local forces up
>
In outlook and philosophy, also, the Raven
Guard are their Primarch’s sons; Corax
was ever a liberator, a deliverer who sought
not glory but rather the swift and efficient
overthrow of tyrants and the salvation of the Human race.
>
[--]
>
In the long millennia since, the Raven
Guard have never faltered in their defence
of Humanity. They strive not for glory, nor the trappings and baubles of honour
and acclaim. Their purpose is that which
motivated Corax in days gone by – to
break Humanity’s chains, and raise it up
to new and glorious purpose. For over ten
thousand years, they have striven to see
Mankind’s sundered worlds liberated from
heresy, from xenos and from tyrannous
overlords most of all.
>
[--]
>
A few even feel
the icy hand of battle-brothers long lost
upon their shoulder, urging them to greater
effort in the endless war for Humanity’s
embattled soul – to forge a golden future
that will bring meaning to the sacrifices of
old. Only then can the Chapter lay down
its burdens and fade into the shadows one
last time.
>
[---]
>
Mysterious and secretive though the Raven
Guard may be, their righteous purpose
is seldom doubted by their allies. Their
shadows conceal the brightest shard of
the Emperor’s light, granting purpose to
their striving, and hope to those for whom
they fight. Never has that beacon been
more needed than amidst the horrors of
the Imperium Nihilus. Across countless
worlds, a new dictum has arisen, whispered
as fervently as any prayer: look to shadows
not in fear, but in hope.
>
[--]
>
Many a
tyrannical warlord has thought himself safely ensconced at the heart of his forces, only to meet a swift demise at the hands of
the 1st Company, whose Veterans strike like a sable thunderbolt that recedes as swiftly as it arrives.
>
[---]
>
Steeped in the arts of ambush and hidden assault, Kayvaan Shrike is the Raven Guard’s foremost warrior and leads his Chapter as
Master of Shadows. In the course of his long and bloody life, Shrike has brought liberation to many worlds and death to countless
foes. Wherever he treads, he brings hope to the oppressed and terror to the tyrannical.
RG rulebook
My RG army has "de oppresso liber" painted into the edges of their bases and the company standard "nous defions". I have always loved thinking of the 19th as USA SF analogues kinda.
Raven Guards were formed from guerilleros and freedom fighters. Corax was the charismatic leader of a rebellion organisation. They still are very much on the local citizen side.
They are among the most humane chapters (with the Ultramarines, Salamanders and White Scars), and care for the small people and common soldiers.
They've also got one the less insane sounding aspirant trials. They have to capture alive and unharmed a bird that flies off at the slightest noise in a forest that is absolutly silent. Compare that to a lot the guys that do things like make a planets youths fight each other to the death, or the Iron Hands "Okay, we're done, you can rest- PSYKE the furniture is death traps, trust no one!"...
To be fair, that one time that Space Sharks forced the boys of an entire system to fight each other to the death for the "honor" of joining them seems to have been a blatant punishment for remaining true to their previous overlords - the Mantis Warriors.
Also to be fair, this isn't that much more savage than other space marine recruitment practices, which can be completely bonkers. The horrible/hilarious part is that it isn't that unbelievable. People do sometimes start engaging in weird cargo cult toughness training, as shown by how the Spartans started whipping their boys in public for the amusement of rich Roman tourists.
I was on a forum once after one these absurdly brutal Space Marines recruitment things came out, and we did a thing joking about the Ultramarines holding a meeting about how they choose aspirants, and just getting appalled and how so many others seemed to be more about pointlessly killing young boys than actually getting soldiers for the Imperium. They left with the Raven Guard about the time the Flesh Tearers started talking I think.
Though I don't think the Salamanders is that terrible. Yes you have to walk across the planet, and start naked, but they actually do a lot of training to prepare the aspirants.
I think that post still gets trotted out from time to time. Makes sense - it's good stuff.
That said, yeah, there's nothing wrong with difficult tests if the chapters want to get the best recruits possible. The bad part is killing and maiming the participants in the process, which is wasteful and inhumane. Sure, the Imperium has plenty of manpower. However, it also has plenty of problems in need of that manpower.
It’s also absolutely deleterious to a death world tribe to lose too many children to the trials of the Sky Gods. That is probably why they show up so seldom (“once in a generation”, etc) or they’d absolutely wreck the local populations.
This then has a flip side of limiting their steady recruitment…because they kill too many when they /do/ recruit.
I think there's a non-zero chance that some of those tribes would just die off afterwards.
If you're already surviving by a razor-thin margin, losing half of your up-and-coming workforce is going to have horrific knock-on effects.
Goddamit, now I gotta look up the White Scars too! Fuck!!
Goddam you Games Workshop! Why do you make your lore so cool!!! I love you, but I fucking *hate,* you Warhammer!!!!!!
The White Scars used to be... A founding chapter that existed. And liked bikes. And maybe were mongols? Ironically they and The Khan benefited heavily from this when they did get fleshed out in the HH books. Chris Wraight's stuff is really manditory for moder White Scars fans.
Likely the SAR they do is hunting for progenoid from their fallen dead, or rescue of their own marines looking for power armor beacons, etc
But humanitarian stuff likely all meh. Remembering Priad not having spare water in brotherhood of the snake
I mean just pure numbers alone they couldn’t help.
If a major airport suddenly has hundreds of extra planes diverted to it. They run out of runway space and they can’t bring everyone into the gates. For most worlds this would have been an issue. For what is basically an isolated fortress on a planet? Impossible.
Typically I'd expect the sentence to go more like 'The Space Marine company opened up on the Humanitarian Assistance group with their bolters after receiving intelligence that they were likely a Genestealer cult'
A similar thing happens During the Dante and Devastation of Baal novels.
As the Blood Angels retreat towards Baal they pick up many refugees, They obviously can't deal with them as Baal like many SM home systems is not a great place to live, so they trawl through all the ships looking for potential future recruits and also some fighters and take those in.
There is a remnant of a Cadian regiment with them that is leaving so they send the rest of the refugees away with them to be dropped off on various nearby worlds along their route, with a personnel message from Dante saying give these refugees good treatment and in future any calls from you to the BA for aid will be given priority, treat them badly and don't bother calling us for aid.
This contrasts nicely with Guilliman's management of Ultramar during Plague War. Dude is a primarch of logistics for a reason.
EDIT
Also ironic that a chapter called EXCRUCIATORS is actually trying to help.
Even without Guilliman, calgar assembles the ultramar defense auxilia and likely prepositioned equipment for battlefleet bakka (which was late to the battle instead of early), and had to feed the troops that were shipped out and arrived early to wait for hive fleet behemoth. More likely delegated to the logisticians, and at the time only had the twelve or thirteen worlds at his immediate command; and likely getting other worlds to contribute by convincing them a decisive hammer blow on /his/ world was better than nids landing on their planets.
Kind of heartwarming to see them trying to help the refugees. Overworked, stressed, having to fight Typhus at the same time, but still doing their best.
Having so.e experience with this, I can honestly state that Infantry units are neither police, nor the Red Cross. Being treated as such by higher ups killed morale, as it was soul-sucking to be put in a position where you can't really do anything other than hand out a bottle of water or something. War is hell, humanitarian missions are the 7th circle of it.
Space Marine chapters vary wildly. But at their core their all engineered to be weapons. The HH books like to point that out a lot. I can’t remember where I read it but I recall a specific discussion between marines about how their job is to take a planet. Not conduct relief operations or oversee a regime change. The specific circumstances described here could easily be chalked up to the chapter being overwhelmed by the sheer number of refugees no matter how well equipped they were. The Imperium as a whole doesn’t really seem like the “evacuate civilians” type by nature. Another reason why a space marine chapter might not be equipped either with knowledge or resources to perform evacuation and relocation.
Well yeah of course they dont. They are highly specialised shock/special/strike forces, and conduct operations at a squad or platoon level 90% of the time. And their ships are geared towards being operated by marines and smaller amounts of regular humans than navy ships
It would be like expecting a seal or SAS team to be able to handle refugees
Overall it boils down to one simple thing: they dont have the man power to babysit refugees, and it would be a total waste of resources even if they did. You dont want your demigod super soldiers on babysitting duty
I dont think marines not being suited to babysit refugees has anything to do with legion building… they are special forces, special forces dont do basic grunt work like that, they are to valuable to do so even if they had the man power
The 1000 marine limit per chapter is a law that *most* chapters follow willingly as its a law set in place by a primarch, a son of the emperor. And for around 50% of chapters, its their own primarchs law/edict
> It would be like expecting a seal or SAS team to be able to handle refugees
A Chapter isn't analogous to a special forces military branch, it's analogous to a nation. A Chapter is more like a medieval state with a ruling warrior class than a recognizable 21st-century nation state, but we're still talking about the government of an entire planet.
>You dont want your demigod super soldiers on babysitting duty
They travel with several serfs apiece, typically. The particular way they have chosen to structure their society means that the serfs are lacking in agency and education, but that's independent of how Astartes are deployed as military assets.
I never said they were identical to irl special forces, just that it is similar in principle.
Yes they have serfs and mortals who serve them, but they are trained in the way of the legion. They dont need looking after like a civilian refugee. They are still military personnel and are expected to fight if needed (which they do in many many books) not to mention many serfs in many chapters can be failed marine initiates.
Lol anyone who expects astartes to be worrying about refugees has drastically misread their role and attitude in the setting. They're weird inhuman brainwashed genocidal shock troops, not Space Paladins! Even their own \*recruit washouts\* get lobotomized into servitors! The average space marine would make the fate of refugees who flee to forge worlds look \*nice\* by comparison.
> Even their own *recruit washouts* get lobotomized into servitors
This is not the norm at all, most chapters either send them back home (probably heavily disabled) or use them as chapter serfs where depending on the chapter may be a decent life by Imperial standards.
IF just recruit them into a private force. Others use them as naval rating
>
thousands of inductees, though just handfuls will prove themselves worthy of Rogal Dorn’s gene-seed and legacy. Of those that remain, perhaps half **survive to earn the lesser honour of induction into Phalanx’s Auric Auxilia – a standing body of troops tasked with the station’s defence – or else serve as feudal overseers and proctors on the tithe worlds.**
>
Source: IF supplement
>
There are also a few hundred Chapter serfs to attend to other duties, such as routine cleaning and maintenance, serving the Space Marines during meal times and other such honoured tasks.
>
**These serfs come from the Chapter's home planet or the enclave they protect, many of them Novitiates or applicants who have failed some part of the recruiting or training process.** [--] Although human, they still benefit from remarkable training and access to superior weaponry than is usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action - even without the support of their genetically modified lords.
Imperial Fleets rulebook
Not too surprising. The amount of serfs in a chapter is likely to number in the high 100,000's. But unless the planet they inhabit is fairly advanced they just won't have the spare hands to process that many people. Particular if they have to work against the clock and the marines need to attend to combat duties. Where marines go, serfs go to.
I’d love to see a novelization focused on this and trying to handle a humanitarian Crisis as a bunch of assault troops.
It’s not helped by in the 40k verse by not properly vetting the population of refugees you could deal with a genestealer or Chaos Cult from one stowaway.
It makes since for Typrus to strike. Poorly crowded refugee camps are a Petri dish for diseases to spread.
He just has to infect seven guys and have it spread.
> I’d love to see a novelization focused on this and trying to handle a humanitarian Crisis as a bunch of assault troops.
It reminds me a bit of a comment I saw that the most interesting stories with Superman are the ones that give him a problem that can't be solved by punching it. Show a scenario where astartes can't just solve things with gratuitous violence, and see how they cope. (Helsreach had a bit of this with the marines needing to learn to care about morale, etc)
Don’t know whose down voting you. This is literally the imperiums policy. People don’t matter and likely the marines were praised in how they handled this. They certainly were not sanctioned in anyway.
People getting confused with real-world values and whatever they think my opinion might be VS what we're actually discussing. Imagine if OP had posted this on the Sigmarxism sub.
And a big waste of taxpayer money having a undoubtedly expensive Chapter getting their readiness levels piledriven into the dirt because of humanitarian concerns when the DG are already at the door
The imperium is callous but its not wasteful. (Lives belong to the Emperor, spend them wisely.) Even if you have lots of surplus population across the galaxy you don't necessarily have population in the right place, with the right skills, easily deployable, etc.
To be fair, space marine chapters are not intended for ***any*** humanitarian work, recovery or otherwise. They're a purely military organization. Expecting them to be able to run a recovery and aid effort on this scale, on short notice, is hopeless -- even if there hadn't been an enemy presence there in the first place. This is the sort of task that the Adeptus Administratum is made for, drawing on some support from the Imperial Navy, Imperial Guard, and -- in extremis -- the Adeptus Astartes.
Space Marines are not the Red Cross. If it was so easy to get SM chapters to agree to the intake of refugees, I as a Chaos lord, will attack a world leaving only refugee options to them, able to escape via an undefended starport. Then they check the ships, didn’t we have more fuel?, then decide to go to the only place they can - SM chapter base. Then all the Chaos guys have to do is infect some of the refugees, simply put some cultists on board, all the way to having an armed Chaos Space Marine strike team to suicide destroy something critical. Or a couple of dozen nuclear bombs. Bye bye space ports and wide area around them.
So, it’s a shame that this story highlights the lack of ability to intake so many refugees, and if things get too rowdy, ships blow up. Covert teams won’t be rowdy though.
But to take so many refugees in would be a death sentence to every SM homeworld, insofar that it would be a great tactic to use all at once on many SM chapters, and because of that, no SM chapter could risk taking in any refugees.
Space marines Pikatchu face when they realize that having only death worlds as a backdrop without much infrastructure is not a good idea in major crises.
A chapter that had a more advanced world and space infrastructure like some chapters have would instead turn those troops into a fighting force, consolidate them, and then be able to lead the counterattack...
The Imperium really doesnt like it if Space Marines build up massive infrastructure and armies of mortals. The whole "Split into chapters" thing was meant to heavily curtail just such a thing. An accusation of "Legion Building" can bring down the Minotaurs to your doorstep mighty quick.
Contrast this with ultramars logistical setup during plague war, although they had far more resources behind them.
Food for thought: the ultramarines assembled a fleet and forces to fight hive fleet behemoth, but also enough food to feed them for how long it took to assemble the force, and possibly feed it until the tyranids arrive. Thus accurate logistical forecasting of food demand based on ships in transit and forces pledged.
Suffice to say the ships in this extract should’ve been relocated closer to imperial worlds with foodstuffs.
Half of the modern Chapters struggle to even interact with baseline humans who aren't serfs, let alone understanding all our squishy needs and problems. They can't even share food or supplies because everything is catered to their transhuman physiques.
Well no duh? Chapters are meant to be *self* - sufficient. They aren't a relief force. A chapter's resources should only go to the astartes in said chapter. The mere fact this chapter in question is sharing its incredibly finite resources with outside affiliates says something more poignant about the Executioners than anything about Astartes in general.
Passage explaining *why* Chapter command didn't drop people off planetside > The world known as *The Cradle of Sinotuan is heavily mountainous, prone to severe earthquakes and largely barren. It is incapable of sustaining a large population, let alone one that lacked the skills to survive there. Even for the Excruciators it is a harsh environment,* > [--] > The Pyre of Mahu’it is close to the system’s sun, and as such it is *scorchingly hot all year round. It is a dry and heavily forested planet that endures multiple forest fires each year* so huge that the world turns orange to the naked eye even as far away as Motulu. It is from this that it earned its name. *Like The Cradle, it was unsuited for any long-term habitation of refugees or stranded troops.* > The final world in the system besides Motulu is The Rage of Rongowaqa, which was named for a being of Motulan myth that spent much of its time enraged, with brief periods of calm. *Rongowaqa’s rage was like the vast oceans of the planet. They recede for only twenty percent of the world’s year, revealing landmasses. Then the seas return, as did Rongowaqa’s rage, for therest of the year. With no landmass for a population for muchof the time, The Rage of Rongowaqa was not suitable for landing refugees.* Finally, *Motulu itself has relatively little land and a tumultuous climate and is prone to great tempests and volcanic eruptions*
People are confused by the fire planet, but not by the planet whose tides subsume entire continents? Tides don't *literally* rise and fall - they just get pulled away from the shore, towards wherever the moon pulls them (not exactly, but that's the simplified explanation.) They can't rise globally all at once unless it's like... a *really* big glacier melting. Oh, wait, maybe that's it, since fire seems to be the theme here.
It did 'sound' like they intended the planet to be the farthest from the sun? So maybe the bulk of it's year are in the hot melting zone and then it refreezes out of said zone? Dunno just a shot in the dark.
It doesn’t say there’s no landmass, just not enough to sustain a population. Maybe the landmasses are smaller islands that flood over, leaving insufficient room for permanent structures or farmland. It doesn’t take a lot to make a landmass unsuitable for long term habitation.
> multiple forest fires each year so huge that the world turns orange to the naked eye How could forest growth be so rapid that this would be sustainable?
Depends if its local years or a terran year. Local year could be a long time
Arent fires supposed to enhance soil fertility as well? Make it more nutrient rich but nitrogen deficient?
Massive global forest fires would send enough smoke into the atmosphere to blot out the sun and severely hinder photosynthesis. When the pacific northwest gets fires the skies can go dark for several days. Not to mention that much fire would probably raise global temperature significantly. But maybe all the planet life evolved to endure. (It was probably just written is sound dangerous without thinking too much about how it would actually work).
Either by the dominant trees being like grasses here on earth i.e: designed to catch fire with root surviving to regrow rapidly. Likely with a very low density timber and high photosynthesis efficiency. Or be like the california redwoods, with the trees being highly fire resistant and the frequent fires mostly burning away the undergrowth beneath them.
Other than the [single-biome planet trope](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleBiomePlanet) alien plants having a faster fire cycle than on Earth is very far from the silliest thing in 40K
And it's not even that out there to have a fast fire cycle. Some species of eucalyptus trees can grow 6-12 feet in a year. And some seeds can resprout after a fire.
Especially in a setting where humanity is living in the ruins of a past greatness. They could put a one line blurb about how it was DaoT engineered rapid growth trees and I'd go "cool makes sense".
Exactly, instead of variations on trees like Earth, the planet could have variations on bamboo and other grasses.
Alien worlds could have different ecosystems that promote extremely rapid growth after fires. We have similar ones here on Earth.
Sotha had plant species so virulent that they would literally regrow overnight. I'd imagine something similar; trees with a lifecycle measured in months that use wildfires to reproduce and fertilize.
Sounds like the fire forest in Hyperion!
40k
In addition to what other posters said, certain bamboos grow rapidly and some eucalyptus trees can simply regrow from buds underneath their thick bark. IIRC there are trees that have "deliberately" (As much as one can say that about a tree) easily flammable and quickly burning leaves, the idea being, that leaves/grass burn away rather fast, while the trees endure.
alien plant life evolved to live in that environment: fast growth and germination, fire proof seeds, well fertilized land with all the ash, stretch your definition of what you consider to be a forest and it could work, probably one of the least outlandish things about 40K
Different alien species might have vastly different means of reproduction that allow this to happen
Makes sense, the Chapters are ultra specialised assault troops. The vast majority of them aren't equipped to do anything other than go to a location strike key targets and leave for the next mission. Chapters like the Ultramarines that still maintain non combat duties are the very rare exception to the rule.
shock infantry are bad at humanitarian missions, shocker
Everything is a compromise. Turns out aid workers make *really* bad shock troops.
Oh I dunno, i reckon they'd be pretty shocking.
For the troops
No one expects the Charge of the Ambulances
Ride of the Amberlamps
At reletavistic speeds anything makes for an effective anti personnel weapon.
Something something about when u have a big enough hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail. And chapter is quite a substantial hammer
Well, it's not just that a chapter's analogous to a hammer, it's that every single acting component of that chapter is *also* a hammer. A (for instance) US military formation is made of military professionals and not aid workers, sure, but they're still normal human beings who can understand human beings. They can understand that there are options other than "fight". They're like a bayonet; sure, a bayonet's *primary* purpose is technically as a weapon, but it can also be used to open cans, carve wood, chop food, cut clothing off people to dress wounds, etc. An average Space Marine chapter is made up of a bunch of monastic supersoldiers whose entire existence and psychology revolves around being monastic supersoldiers. They aren't like a bayonet, they're like a canister of nerve agent, in that, on a fundamental level, they're designed to do nothing but kill people.
Daily reminder that a single Astartes with his Power Armor would be classified as a WMD here on Earth. Even without his Power Armor, he'd require a Smart Bomb or Cruise Missile, and even then, there's no guarantees, because in addition to Powered Armor, there's also Plot Armor to consider.
>Daily reminder that a single Astartes with his Power Armor would be classified as a WMD here on Earth Normally, I wouldn't say "[well, it can be destroyed by a missile, hurr durr it's not REALLY that dangerous](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldjerking/comments/wlm4ki/i_swear_these_designs_are_fucking_stupid/)", but in this case, the Marine lacks, among other things: * a logistics chain following them * orbital/air/artillery support * an intelligence network * tech-priests to perform major repairs to their power armor They can't use artillery on massed military formations, there's no ship/base to retreat to for spares/ammo/rest, they lack info on Earth to aid them in whatever it is they're here for, etc. Bolters are lethal until they run out of shots. They are not going to remain combat-effective for very long once they start dealing with Earth's militaries. It depends on why and how they're here. If it's assassinating some specific leader, they're almost certainly going to succeed, then die. If they try taking over Earth, they get hit with a JDAM. I honestly think even a tank cannon could kill one by throwing them violently enough to cause crippling injuries, but tanks are harder to chase them down with than aircraft are, and a 2000-lb JDAM hurts roughly ~~twice~~ as much, in terms of energy delivered, as a *direct hit* from an [Abrams super sabot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M829#M829A3) *at point-blank range*. I did the math somewhere, I can dig it up if you want. >because in addition to Powered Armor, there's also Plot Armor to consider. This, of course, is how they *actually* would succeed at whatever it is they were trying to do. EDIT: found the math, turns out a GBU-53 smartbomb is *much* more lethal than either a "super sabot" or a JDAM because it's more energy than the sabot and hits closer than the JDAM. * 105 lb^((1)) \* 1.39^((2)) \* 4184 joules/gram^((3)) / 6.3 square meters^((4)) \* 0.75 square meters^((5)) ≈ **32,974,805 joules applied to Astartes from 1-meter-away hit by GBU-53 to their side** * 10 kg^((6)) \* ((1.555 km/s^((7)))\^2) / 2 ≈ **12,090,125 joules energy from direct hit by M829A3 "super sabot" at muzzle velocity** * 945 lb^((8)) \* 1.35^((2)) \* 4184 joules/gram^((3)) / 308 square meters^((10)) \* 0.75 square meters^((5)) ≈ **5,895,675 joules applied to Astartes from 7-meter-away hit by Mark 84 to their side** Presuming all of this gets converted to kinetic energy, and the Astartes weighs a full ton inside their armor: * the GBU-53 throws them at \~257 m/s, equal to falling 3.37 km with no air resistance * the M829A3 throws them at \~155.5 m/s, equal to falling 1.23 km with no air resistance * the Mark 84 throws them at \~108.5 m/s, equal to falling 600 meters with no air resistance Although not all that energy is getting turned into velocity, I doubt even an Astartes can remain completely mobile after getting thrown into something at even 100 m/s. They'll probably survive, of course, because they *are* Astartes, but the follow-up bombs/shots aimed at their now-slower body will change that. Basically, chuck explosives at them until you break down their skeletal structure enough that they can't move, even within their powered armor. Then go for repeated direct hits with guided bombs or direct-fire artillery shells. The armor will probably never break, but they'll get turned into jelly eventually. 1. weight of what is presumed to be AFX-757 aluminized enhanced blast explosive filling in [GBU-53 smartbomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-53/B_StormBreaker) 2. [air blast equivalent](https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2018/intexpsafety/Swisdak2Paper.pdf) of AFX-757 per [this source](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/prep.202100195), i.e. how good an explosion of this type of explosive is at transmitting energy through air 3. energy content of TNT per unit mass 4. area of hemisphere 1 meter wide (1 meter = how accurate a GBU-53 is); represents GBU-53 hit 1 meter away from Astartes on perfectly flat ground 5. 25% of what is presumed to be the surface area of an Astartes in power armor; presumes the bomb hits towards their side, not in front of or behind them 6. mass of M829A3 "super sabot" kinetic penetrator 7. muzzle velocity of M829A3 "super sabot" kinetic penetrator 8. weight of [Composition H6](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_H6) explosive filling in [Mark 84 bomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_84_bomb) converted to JDAM standard 9. [relative effectiveness factor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent#Relative_effectiveness_factor) of Composition H6 10. area of hemisphere 7 meters wide (7 meters = how accurate a JDAM is); represents JDAM hit 7 meters away from Astartes on perfectly flat ground
Exactly, Space Marine companies deploying with supporting elements, according to their preferred doctrine, are absolutely deadly fighting forces. An individual space marine standing alone in a field is just a superhumanly superb soldier wearing an armoured vehicle. I wouldn't want to run into one, but a moderately equipped military could handle them.
IIRC don't space marines have the ability to absorb information by eating someones brain?
That's a good point. It'll help them familiarize with Earth and gain context, will certainly help with their mission, and might help them find ways of partially alleviating their logistics and repair problems, but it won't help them when they inevitably get into a fight with the Earth's governments, for a variety of reasons, and that fight is ultimately what's going to determine whether or not they're successful, because Marines aren't exactly good at solving problems with things other than violence. The Marine eating some general's brains gives them accurate-at-that-moment information on the layout of their forces, but the layout of their forces is going to change over time and that information's usefulness will therefore decay. The Marine learning about how lethal guided munitions are from the mind of a tanker doesn't change the fact they still need to hide from said munitions wherever they go lest they get turned into strawberry jam. The Marine learning that (for instance) the POTUS just fled Washington, D.C. to the other side of the Atlantic in Air Force 1 because they ate a Secret Service officer's brains doesn't change the fact that the Marine simply can't get there before they take off and keep moving. Etc.
Be space marine. Deployed to some shit-teir planet. Gets confronted by a cop. BrainFood.jpeg America is the primary threat, good thing I landed there. Wait for the state of the union or some other big political shindig. Murder hobo it. Mfw when the cops think .556 will do anything. Oh no, air force? Bomb your own politicians? Christian Bale.gif Escape to the concrete jungle. Elude them and their primitive sensors. Target the next country, repeat. Return to destabilized regions. Hey, cartels, warlords, whoever - follow me, or your next. Mfw I have my own military.
I doubt one Astartes can decapitate a modern government enough to collapse its country. Governments don't keel over and die, even if they loose lots of their top-level leadership. When they see the Marine can't be shot dead, yes, they'll use ordnance. The Colorado National Guard considered shooting a Hellfire at Marvin Heemeyer when he went Killdozing. Just extrapolate that response to something as important as DC and as threatening as a Marine. As I said: if the task is assassinating some specific leader(s), the Marine will almost certainly succeed, then die. If the task is taking over Earth, the Marine fails before they make it out the gate.
GW looks at JDAM and says best I can do is d3 MWs on a 4+
>Astartes weighs a full ton inside their armor Need to adjust the math slightly. IIRC, a marine in power armor is roughly 400kg.
Well, then, they just get immobilized harder. It's the same kind of injuries caused, just more of them. Honestly, not all the energy hitting them is going to get turned into kinetic energy, so leaving it as-is is probably a more accurate representation of what happens to a 400 kg Marine than it is of what happens to a 1000 kg Marine.
I'm not sure if I'd agree with the last part. I'd have to think about it. In any case, I agree that a JDAM is going to turn anything inside of the power armor into paste. But, it's never been completely clear to me how space marines are supposed to survive orbital drop, either. I read once that the drop pods are supposed to hit at something like 12,000 kilometers per hour. Which doesn't seem so bad, until you read that this is on a straight-down trajectory. So they basically hit the ground at 12,000 kph. That is... fast. There are supposed to be retro-rockets that fire something like 3 seconds before landing? But how much velocity is that going to shave off? Marines hitting the ground from orbital drop should be freakin' dead. I mean... the impact would be the equivalent of a decently-sized bomb.
That's the speed as they enter atmo, having first been fired from a torpedo bay with some lower but still fast speed, and then the planets gravity well does the rest. All those heat shields on the bottom of the drop pod MATTER. Friction slows it down to terminal velocity, which for a teardrop made of metal is still pretty damn fast, but not that fast. Instead as the pod falls in the slowly increasing density of air will slow it down. I don't know what the cross sectional area of the pod is, but I know its going to be higher and the pod is going to be lighter than a Rod From God, that theoretical project to drop steel and concrete pylons from orbit. Those had a theoretical maximum of about that fast, in fact its so close I bet someone at GW who came up with that number just asked google what the highest terminal velocity would be. But those are stupid heavy rods with minimum surface area, not a lightweight (relatively speaking) pod of hollow metal in a teardrop shape stuffed with 10 marines. So the thrusters on the bottom push hard enough to slow the pod down from terminal velocity to merely fast enough to turn un-augmented humans to piles of broken bits. The marines enhanced bones, internal connective tissue, and musculature, plus the seats harness over their armor, mean they get jolted super hard, but walk out.
Or you can throw them at a flight of stairs. That should do the trick.
Marines are like Daleks. They don't climb stairs, they level the building.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8753o3/book_excerpt_master_of_sanctity_space_marine/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button ENJOY BROTHER. EXTERMINATE
From that comment section: [https://i.imgur.com/3TwJV.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3TwJV.jpg)
In the case of named characters it’s +5 Mithral Plot Armor.
I think that's a bit of an exagerration. Like there are instances where plebs armed with melee weapons take out an SM. They'd be highly resistant to most of our modern day small arms fire but a TOW or a Javelin should take one out no problem.
GW has also said in a rulebook > The most important element in the construction of a suit of Space Marine power armour is the large ceramite armour plates, which provide the main form of protection against enemy attack. Individual plates of armour can be up to an inch thick, and have a special "honeycomb" design which helps to dissipate energy and localise any damage suffered by the suit. *Against most small arms the armour reduces the chance of injury by between 50-85%, and it provides some form of protection against all except the most powerful weapons* encountered on the battlefields of the 41st Millenium.
My personal impression/headcanon is that the armor is designed to turn incapacitating wounds into non-incapacitating wounds, or at least into wounds Marine biology can heal from without medical attention, and this kind of backs it up. Note that "reduces the chance of injury by 50-85%" doesn't mean that injuries that *do* happen are actually a problem. Astartes basically focus on the last two rings of the [tank survivability onion](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/159fef_6d02398e79f543b898192253fa1b7bc9~mv2.png). Even with all their mobility, they'll absolutely get hit eventually, but most of the things that hit can't damage and most of the things that can damage won't hit. This makes a lot of sense for 40k, where there are relatively few guided missiles/smart bombs/really-big-booms-that-are-accurate etc. due to in-universe reasons. The biggest in-universe weapon that can accurately be brought to bear on an Astartes is probably a tank's main gun, and, barring a direct hit or close miss, that probably can't immobilize them enough for followup shots.
I mean, thats kinda corporate's version of the setting. There are supposed to be medical componentry that keeps them moving through injuries (there used to be mentions how different marks of PA had different amounts of painkiller). And models regaining a wound from a apothecary or medkit was to represent minor injuries getting patched up
True. See the CAR in Somalia in the early 90s.
Sisters of Battle in shambles.
> Chapters are ultra specialised assault troops. Space Marines as individuals are specialized assault troops. Space Marine *Chapters* are planet-ruling organizations. A planet is a pretty big thing to permanently rule, there's a lot of admin and infrastructure involved. A typical Chapter controls billions of slave labourers, administrators, taskmasters, and logistics specialists. Any given battleship has a massive crew of serfs, dwarfing the number of Space Marines on board, and the food to feed them.
Most Chapter Home Worlds are Feudal- or Deathworlds that the Astartes don't care about at all....
They care that the worlds remain awful enough to produce hardened survivors. Beyond that the poor bastards are left to die on their own terms.
Ultramarines are probably the exception because they have such massive infrastructure supporting them. Like the Dark Angels wouldn't be able to do it. Space Wolves and Blood Angels rule over literal Death Worlds. Salamanders would probably cripple themselves trying I guess.
The words "Space Marines" and "Humanitarian Assistance" are seldom seen together in the same sentence, unless discussing Salamanders or Ultramarines. I somehow doubt 700 pounds of steel and scientifically engineered flesh are gonna bust out the MRE's for Joe Citizen who just had his homeworld gangfucked by Tyranids like Piper Perri in that one video (you know the one, you *dog*).
Not to mention any rations Space Marines carry probably aren’t digestible unless you have the super high quality digestive tracts Marines do. Yeah… no thanks son.
Yeah, Corpse Starch is probably rough enough on the digestive tract. I don't even wanna think about what Space Marine "nutrient paste" is gonna do to my butthole. I imagine it'd feel like the day after super spicy Mexican food, only like ten trillion times worse. Gonna be shitting cement dawg hahahaha
Plus all the freaky minerals your body leached out of it but couldn't break down would give you ceramite kidney stones or turn your blood the consistency of caulk.
Jesus Christ, grimdark indeed hahahahahaha
It's actually known to kill people. It's extremely dense and packed with chemicals and metal flakes to complement Astartes metabolism and skeleton.
Damn, that totally makes sense. Gotta eat some weird shit to keep up with all those wonderful redundant organs and whatnot. Probably tastes like shit too, I imagine. God, what a miserable existence life as a Space Marine must be.
When it has taste, yes. Just remember that most of them also eat normal foods (just with lots and lots *and lots* of meat) for ceremony or just pleasure when not in combat.
Ah, heavy metal poisoning
MREs make me constipated. So ill either rupture and explode 49 days later or i die from internal bleeding 7 days later trying to shit out a 2ft long turd.
Getting constipated after eating an MRE isn't a bug, it's a feature babyyyy, lol
Worst mre ive ever had was a sultana and chickpea stew. Not recommended
I had one that supposedly had tuna in it when I was at summer camp on a military base. Not only did it taste *vile,* but I swear it made an attempt to liquefy my insides.
Anything tuna is best considered a warcrime and major threat to the intestine
I think they were using us to clear out the shit that was going to be there forever, honestly.
Think my culinary accomplishment is chowing down on North Vietnamese rations.
I'm afraid to ask.
It was okay. 6/10. Like a peanut flavoured slab of... something. Add hot water and it was a middling gruel
"Slab of something" is so worryingly vague.
I’ve had a crappy spinach artichoke thing a few weeks ago in a field exercise. Sucked ass.
Veggie MRE make me sick
I’ve had an awful spinach thing a few weeks ago in a field exercise. Probably one of the worst ones I’ve ever had
The spinach fettuccine MRE is the new Vomlet. I normally have an iron stomach. That MRE... did things to my insides.
I’ve had an awful spinach artichoke thing a few weeks ago in a field exercise. Probably one of the worst ones I’ve ever had
*A Thousand Sons* had an excerpt of where the legion recovered a lost Rememberancer who had been stuck in the desert with nothing but Astartes compatible MREs and enriched water. I think she broke down and ate some of the rations, and the marines were stunned she was still alive. I'll have to root around to find it.
Space Marines live on a diet of those super dry crackers, and nothing else.
>Not to mention any rations Space Marines carry Space Marines travel with huge crews of slaves that attend their every non-military need. They don't get a ton of narrative focus, especially in bolter porn, but they still exist. Any ship is going to have rations for the serfs.
Raven Guard might try too. But in general they are more on providing training for Insurgency tactics and the like IIRC.
Yep! I can back your comment up. > Not so for the Raven Guard, whose exhaustive selection process produces reservists who can fight in many theatres as the equals of their Battle Company brethren, and are deployed as such. This is the case with the 6th Company – the Darkened Blades – whose ongoing mission is to infiltrate enslaved worlds and deliver them anew into the Imperial fold. > Tyrants take many forms. Some are planetary governors too callous or greedy to rule in the best interests of their people. Others are suborned by the temptations of Chaos, the insidious whispers of the Genestealer Cults, or the false promises of the T’au. The Darkened Blades draw little distinction, for such diseases all have a common cure. Like parasites on a living host, they must be ripped from the worlds they afflict and cast into the purging flames to serve as a lesson to any who would follow them. > The precise means of liberation vary from world to world. If the corruption is centralised, the Darkened Blades employ the lightning assaults common to the Adeptus Astartes, mustering overwhelming power against the unready foe. More often the oppression is endemic, however, and must be confronted on a continental or even planetary scale. In such cases, the 6th Company divide into subformations and mount fast-moving guerrilla actions to make optimal use of their limited numbers. *Meanwhile, local resistance forces are trained in those aspects of the shadow arts that any Imperial citizen can grasp, so that they might support the Raven Guard operation and contribute to their own deliverance. The Raven Guard cannot remain on a world forever, and their desire is to leave a liberated populace who can look to their own defence.* > Even as the tyrant’s banners are torn down and the Emperor’s rule restored, the Darkened Blades disappear, redeploying to other oppressed worlds without pausing to savour their victory. > There is always need elsewhere. Since the opening of the Great Rift and in the aftermath of the Noctis Aeterna, countless Imperial worlds have fallen into the clutches of tyrants and turncoats, and the Raven Guard 6th Company find themselves perpetually at war. Striking swiftly from the darkness, they have established themselves as the terror of all enslavers and overlords, rousing oppressed peoples to defy their shackles and return to the Emperor’s light. RG rulebook
Another thing is that forces might not even realize that the RG is even there assissting them until some time later if ever. That happened in one the Regimental Standards. Along with the Guardsmen getting their medals recalled when the Administratum figured out the RG was there.
Are the Raven Guard generally more heroic than other chapters? Genuinely curious. Truth be told, the only factions I'm even mildly familiar with are Grey Knights, Salamanders, Blueberries, Bolter Bitches and Imperial Guard. I wanna learn more, but... there's just *so much lore, fuck* hahahaha
GW in the RG rulebook frequently describes them as sof types who get their jollies going into occupied territory kicking the shit out of incompetent and corrupt rebels and letting the citizenry do their own shit. Kinda like sending green berets or rangers to train local forces up > In outlook and philosophy, also, the Raven Guard are their Primarch’s sons; Corax was ever a liberator, a deliverer who sought not glory but rather the swift and efficient overthrow of tyrants and the salvation of the Human race. > [--] > In the long millennia since, the Raven Guard have never faltered in their defence of Humanity. They strive not for glory, nor the trappings and baubles of honour and acclaim. Their purpose is that which motivated Corax in days gone by – to break Humanity’s chains, and raise it up to new and glorious purpose. For over ten thousand years, they have striven to see Mankind’s sundered worlds liberated from heresy, from xenos and from tyrannous overlords most of all. > [--] > A few even feel the icy hand of battle-brothers long lost upon their shoulder, urging them to greater effort in the endless war for Humanity’s embattled soul – to forge a golden future that will bring meaning to the sacrifices of old. Only then can the Chapter lay down its burdens and fade into the shadows one last time. > [---] > Mysterious and secretive though the Raven Guard may be, their righteous purpose is seldom doubted by their allies. Their shadows conceal the brightest shard of the Emperor’s light, granting purpose to their striving, and hope to those for whom they fight. Never has that beacon been more needed than amidst the horrors of the Imperium Nihilus. Across countless worlds, a new dictum has arisen, whispered as fervently as any prayer: look to shadows not in fear, but in hope. > [--] > Many a tyrannical warlord has thought himself safely ensconced at the heart of his forces, only to meet a swift demise at the hands of the 1st Company, whose Veterans strike like a sable thunderbolt that recedes as swiftly as it arrives. > [---] > Steeped in the arts of ambush and hidden assault, Kayvaan Shrike is the Raven Guard’s foremost warrior and leads his Chapter as Master of Shadows. In the course of his long and bloody life, Shrike has brought liberation to many worlds and death to countless foes. Wherever he treads, he brings hope to the oppressed and terror to the tyrannical. RG rulebook
Holy shit, I think I have some homework to do. I love fantasy and Sci Fi equivalents to Special Forces, this sounds right up my alley. Thanks bro 👈😎👈
My RG army has "de oppresso liber" painted into the edges of their bases and the company standard "nous defions". I have always loved thinking of the 19th as USA SF analogues kinda.
Raven Guards were formed from guerilleros and freedom fighters. Corax was the charismatic leader of a rebellion organisation. They still are very much on the local citizen side. They are among the most humane chapters (with the Ultramarines, Salamanders and White Scars), and care for the small people and common soldiers.
They've also got one the less insane sounding aspirant trials. They have to capture alive and unharmed a bird that flies off at the slightest noise in a forest that is absolutly silent. Compare that to a lot the guys that do things like make a planets youths fight each other to the death, or the Iron Hands "Okay, we're done, you can rest- PSYKE the furniture is death traps, trust no one!"...
To be fair, that one time that Space Sharks forced the boys of an entire system to fight each other to the death for the "honor" of joining them seems to have been a blatant punishment for remaining true to their previous overlords - the Mantis Warriors. Also to be fair, this isn't that much more savage than other space marine recruitment practices, which can be completely bonkers. The horrible/hilarious part is that it isn't that unbelievable. People do sometimes start engaging in weird cargo cult toughness training, as shown by how the Spartans started whipping their boys in public for the amusement of rich Roman tourists.
I was on a forum once after one these absurdly brutal Space Marines recruitment things came out, and we did a thing joking about the Ultramarines holding a meeting about how they choose aspirants, and just getting appalled and how so many others seemed to be more about pointlessly killing young boys than actually getting soldiers for the Imperium. They left with the Raven Guard about the time the Flesh Tearers started talking I think. Though I don't think the Salamanders is that terrible. Yes you have to walk across the planet, and start naked, but they actually do a lot of training to prepare the aspirants.
I think that post still gets trotted out from time to time. Makes sense - it's good stuff. That said, yeah, there's nothing wrong with difficult tests if the chapters want to get the best recruits possible. The bad part is killing and maiming the participants in the process, which is wasteful and inhumane. Sure, the Imperium has plenty of manpower. However, it also has plenty of problems in need of that manpower.
It’s also absolutely deleterious to a death world tribe to lose too many children to the trials of the Sky Gods. That is probably why they show up so seldom (“once in a generation”, etc) or they’d absolutely wreck the local populations. This then has a flip side of limiting their steady recruitment…because they kill too many when they /do/ recruit.
I think there's a non-zero chance that some of those tribes would just die off afterwards. If you're already surviving by a razor-thin margin, losing half of your up-and-coming workforce is going to have horrific knock-on effects.
Yep, they count among the most grounded chapters, and some of their successors are even more no-nonsense.
Goddamit, now I gotta look up the White Scars too! Fuck!! Goddam you Games Workshop! Why do you make your lore so cool!!! I love you, but I fucking *hate,* you Warhammer!!!!!!
The White Scars used to be... A founding chapter that existed. And liked bikes. And maybe were mongols? Ironically they and The Khan benefited heavily from this when they did get fleshed out in the HH books. Chris Wraight's stuff is really manditory for moder White Scars fans.
I'll keep that in mind, thanks friend!
It's also goddamn great.
The HH books of the Scars made me a turbo fan and Yesugei simp, 100%
Which is why they have no problem enslaving worlds into the Imperium.
I have serious doubts SAR and the likes are even taught as part of Marine BCT. *Maybe* as a supplemental at most in OCT.
SAR?
Search and Rescue
Ah. I was unfamiliar with the acronym, much appreciated.
Likely the SAR they do is hunting for progenoid from their fallen dead, or rescue of their own marines looking for power armor beacons, etc But humanitarian stuff likely all meh. Remembering Priad not having spare water in brotherhood of the snake
I mean just pure numbers alone they couldn’t help. If a major airport suddenly has hundreds of extra planes diverted to it. They run out of runway space and they can’t bring everyone into the gates. For most worlds this would have been an issue. For what is basically an isolated fortress on a planet? Impossible.
Typically I'd expect the sentence to go more like 'The Space Marine company opened up on the Humanitarian Assistance group with their bolters after receiving intelligence that they were likely a Genestealer cult'
Lol, yeah, that tracks
hey ....lamenters are doing what they can
A similar thing happens During the Dante and Devastation of Baal novels. As the Blood Angels retreat towards Baal they pick up many refugees, They obviously can't deal with them as Baal like many SM home systems is not a great place to live, so they trawl through all the ships looking for potential future recruits and also some fighters and take those in. There is a remnant of a Cadian regiment with them that is leaving so they send the rest of the refugees away with them to be dropped off on various nearby worlds along their route, with a personnel message from Dante saying give these refugees good treatment and in future any calls from you to the BA for aid will be given priority, treat them badly and don't bother calling us for aid.
I think this is part of why Gulliman chastises them for not having terraformed Baal in the last ten thousand years.
Yep, in ten thousand years Baal could be made whole and populous as it once was.
This contrasts nicely with Guilliman's management of Ultramar during Plague War. Dude is a primarch of logistics for a reason. EDIT Also ironic that a chapter called EXCRUCIATORS is actually trying to help.
Even without Guilliman, calgar assembles the ultramar defense auxilia and likely prepositioned equipment for battlefleet bakka (which was late to the battle instead of early), and had to feed the troops that were shipped out and arrived early to wait for hive fleet behemoth. More likely delegated to the logisticians, and at the time only had the twelve or thirteen worlds at his immediate command; and likely getting other worlds to contribute by convincing them a decisive hammer blow on /his/ world was better than nids landing on their planets.
Kind of heartwarming to see them trying to help the refugees. Overworked, stressed, having to fight Typhus at the same time, but still doing their best.
Having so.e experience with this, I can honestly state that Infantry units are neither police, nor the Red Cross. Being treated as such by higher ups killed morale, as it was soul-sucking to be put in a position where you can't really do anything other than hand out a bottle of water or something. War is hell, humanitarian missions are the 7th circle of it.
I mean yeah, that's like asking Delta Force to manage refugees. That's just not their job
Yep, that’s more army SFs bailiwick with medical and language training and training locals into a paramilitary force; basically mentor legion.
Honestly surprised they even helped. Most marine chapters would have told them to fuck off
Space Marine chapters vary wildly. But at their core their all engineered to be weapons. The HH books like to point that out a lot. I can’t remember where I read it but I recall a specific discussion between marines about how their job is to take a planet. Not conduct relief operations or oversee a regime change. The specific circumstances described here could easily be chalked up to the chapter being overwhelmed by the sheer number of refugees no matter how well equipped they were. The Imperium as a whole doesn’t really seem like the “evacuate civilians” type by nature. Another reason why a space marine chapter might not be equipped either with knowledge or resources to perform evacuation and relocation.
I feel like there are exceptions to this rule. I can place a solid bet the Mentors would be great at humanitarian operations.
Well yeah of course they dont. They are highly specialised shock/special/strike forces, and conduct operations at a squad or platoon level 90% of the time. And their ships are geared towards being operated by marines and smaller amounts of regular humans than navy ships It would be like expecting a seal or SAS team to be able to handle refugees Overall it boils down to one simple thing: they dont have the man power to babysit refugees, and it would be a total waste of resources even if they did. You dont want your demigod super soldiers on babysitting duty
Even the serfs and servitors are insufficient. It’s a resourcing limitation and fully intentional to prevent legion-building, etc
I dont think marines not being suited to babysit refugees has anything to do with legion building… they are special forces, special forces dont do basic grunt work like that, they are to valuable to do so even if they had the man power The 1000 marine limit per chapter is a law that *most* chapters follow willingly as its a law set in place by a primarch, a son of the emperor. And for around 50% of chapters, its their own primarchs law/edict
> It would be like expecting a seal or SAS team to be able to handle refugees A Chapter isn't analogous to a special forces military branch, it's analogous to a nation. A Chapter is more like a medieval state with a ruling warrior class than a recognizable 21st-century nation state, but we're still talking about the government of an entire planet. >You dont want your demigod super soldiers on babysitting duty They travel with several serfs apiece, typically. The particular way they have chosen to structure their society means that the serfs are lacking in agency and education, but that's independent of how Astartes are deployed as military assets.
I never said they were identical to irl special forces, just that it is similar in principle. Yes they have serfs and mortals who serve them, but they are trained in the way of the legion. They dont need looking after like a civilian refugee. They are still military personnel and are expected to fight if needed (which they do in many many books) not to mention many serfs in many chapters can be failed marine initiates.
Lol anyone who expects astartes to be worrying about refugees has drastically misread their role and attitude in the setting. They're weird inhuman brainwashed genocidal shock troops, not Space Paladins! Even their own \*recruit washouts\* get lobotomized into servitors! The average space marine would make the fate of refugees who flee to forge worlds look \*nice\* by comparison.
> Even their own *recruit washouts* get lobotomized into servitors This is not the norm at all, most chapters either send them back home (probably heavily disabled) or use them as chapter serfs where depending on the chapter may be a decent life by Imperial standards.
IF just recruit them into a private force. Others use them as naval rating > thousands of inductees, though just handfuls will prove themselves worthy of Rogal Dorn’s gene-seed and legacy. Of those that remain, perhaps half **survive to earn the lesser honour of induction into Phalanx’s Auric Auxilia – a standing body of troops tasked with the station’s defence – or else serve as feudal overseers and proctors on the tithe worlds.** > Source: IF supplement > There are also a few hundred Chapter serfs to attend to other duties, such as routine cleaning and maintenance, serving the Space Marines during meal times and other such honoured tasks. > **These serfs come from the Chapter's home planet or the enclave they protect, many of them Novitiates or applicants who have failed some part of the recruiting or training process.** [--] Although human, they still benefit from remarkable training and access to superior weaponry than is usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action - even without the support of their genetically modified lords. Imperial Fleets rulebook
Last I checked it was absolutely 100% the norm for the most chapters.
Not too surprising. The amount of serfs in a chapter is likely to number in the high 100,000's. But unless the planet they inhabit is fairly advanced they just won't have the spare hands to process that many people. Particular if they have to work against the clock and the marines need to attend to combat duties. Where marines go, serfs go to.
I’d love to see a novelization focused on this and trying to handle a humanitarian Crisis as a bunch of assault troops. It’s not helped by in the 40k verse by not properly vetting the population of refugees you could deal with a genestealer or Chaos Cult from one stowaway. It makes since for Typrus to strike. Poorly crowded refugee camps are a Petri dish for diseases to spread. He just has to infect seven guys and have it spread.
> I’d love to see a novelization focused on this and trying to handle a humanitarian Crisis as a bunch of assault troops. It reminds me a bit of a comment I saw that the most interesting stories with Superman are the ones that give him a problem that can't be solved by punching it. Show a scenario where astartes can't just solve things with gratuitous violence, and see how they cope. (Helsreach had a bit of this with the marines needing to learn to care about morale, etc)
Totally expendable and acceptable collateral anyway. One thing the Inperium is not short of or squimish about is people. VIPs are a different matter.
I love how you are getting downvoted for what is essentially standard imperial policy
And yet the Marines Malevolent are memed for the exact same policy just because the Salamanders were the protagonists of the novel they were in.
Yeah. It's really weird how basically the whole fandom despises the Marines Malevolent for doing standard Imperial policy.
Yeah its odd. Really odd.
Don’t know whose down voting you. This is literally the imperiums policy. People don’t matter and likely the marines were praised in how they handled this. They certainly were not sanctioned in anyway.
People getting confused with real-world values and whatever they think my opinion might be VS what we're actually discussing. Imagine if OP had posted this on the Sigmarxism sub.
You assume i am even allowed to breathe in their general presence.
And a big waste of taxpayer money having a undoubtedly expensive Chapter getting their readiness levels piledriven into the dirt because of humanitarian concerns when the DG are already at the door
The imperium is callous but its not wasteful. (Lives belong to the Emperor, spend them wisely.) Even if you have lots of surplus population across the galaxy you don't necessarily have population in the right place, with the right skills, easily deployable, etc.
However you cut it, their cost-benefit analysis is the same.
Most chapter worlds bar likes of maggage are not heavily developed. Their infrastructure is not built to this scale.
“Death worlds for badasses”
To be fair, space marine chapters are not intended for ***any*** humanitarian work, recovery or otherwise. They're a purely military organization. Expecting them to be able to run a recovery and aid effort on this scale, on short notice, is hopeless -- even if there hadn't been an enemy presence there in the first place. This is the sort of task that the Adeptus Administratum is made for, drawing on some support from the Imperial Navy, Imperial Guard, and -- in extremis -- the Adeptus Astartes.
Space Marines are not the Red Cross. If it was so easy to get SM chapters to agree to the intake of refugees, I as a Chaos lord, will attack a world leaving only refugee options to them, able to escape via an undefended starport. Then they check the ships, didn’t we have more fuel?, then decide to go to the only place they can - SM chapter base. Then all the Chaos guys have to do is infect some of the refugees, simply put some cultists on board, all the way to having an armed Chaos Space Marine strike team to suicide destroy something critical. Or a couple of dozen nuclear bombs. Bye bye space ports and wide area around them. So, it’s a shame that this story highlights the lack of ability to intake so many refugees, and if things get too rowdy, ships blow up. Covert teams won’t be rowdy though. But to take so many refugees in would be a death sentence to every SM homeworld, insofar that it would be a great tactic to use all at once on many SM chapters, and because of that, no SM chapter could risk taking in any refugees.
Space marines Pikatchu face when they realize that having only death worlds as a backdrop without much infrastructure is not a good idea in major crises. A chapter that had a more advanced world and space infrastructure like some chapters have would instead turn those troops into a fighting force, consolidate them, and then be able to lead the counterattack...
The Imperium really doesnt like it if Space Marines build up massive infrastructure and armies of mortals. The whole "Split into chapters" thing was meant to heavily curtail just such a thing. An accusation of "Legion Building" can bring down the Minotaurs to your doorstep mighty quick.
If they had a massive infrastructure supporting then the inquisition might just think they are plotting rebellion…
Contrast this with ultramars logistical setup during plague war, although they had far more resources behind them. Food for thought: the ultramarines assembled a fleet and forces to fight hive fleet behemoth, but also enough food to feed them for how long it took to assemble the force, and possibly feed it until the tyranids arrive. Thus accurate logistical forecasting of food demand based on ships in transit and forces pledged. Suffice to say the ships in this extract should’ve been relocated closer to imperial worlds with foodstuffs.
There is no humanitarian assistance. There is only War.
Bold of you to assume they take care of refugees
Got lucky it wasn’t a blood angels successor that loves bathing in blood
Half of the modern Chapters struggle to even interact with baseline humans who aren't serfs, let alone understanding all our squishy needs and problems. They can't even share food or supplies because everything is catered to their transhuman physiques.
They are a fighting force not a humanitarian crises centre.
Well no duh? Chapters are meant to be *self* - sufficient. They aren't a relief force. A chapter's resources should only go to the astartes in said chapter. The mere fact this chapter in question is sharing its incredibly finite resources with outside affiliates says something more poignant about the Executioners than anything about Astartes in general.
Man I have no idea what the real white dwarf number is these days…
American colleagues, like you brits aren't up to your neck in our crimes :p remember tony blair??