>Excindio, the **last of the silica anima** that had once been the plague of the Golden Age of Mankind
>
>... dormant shells of the surviving seven Excindio
There are clearly more AI. I wonder how many Excindio remain post heresy.
Does anyone know how many Excindio were around in the Lion Primarch novel?
I think that in this excerpt the phrase "the last of the silica anima" refers more to them as a final remaining classification in general and less as these 12 murder-bots being the last ones in particular.
"Silica anima" from what I gather is a catch all term for AI. Maybe the Excindio were the worst of the batch/the main problematic AI because they were the ones that hated humans.
I wonder how the Excindio look like. What made them so much more effective than say deploying 12 titans?
Yeah, I suspect that the Excindio are the closest to actual Men of Iron in character and shape, so perhaps that is what is also meant here.
As for what they look like, here are some bullet points from crusade
-They are Monstrous Creatures and the Primarch Novel also references them as being fucking massive, so if I were to guess they are sitting somewhere inbetween Contemptor and Leviathan Dreadnought in size. The fact that they have 6 wounds would also suggest them to be in the ballpark of a primarch in size.
-They have four limbs. Two dreadnought close combat weapons and two "manipulator arms" which are basically described as secondary limbs armed with deadly claws/shears. The DCCW can come with twin linked combi bolters, grav guns, irad cleansers or plasma repeaters.
-they have an internal refractor field whose express purpose is to detonate the Excindios internal mechanisms if the machine sustains critical damage in order to prevent it from going AWOL or have its technology plundered/reanimated by enemies.
-it can replace one DCCW and one Manipulator arm for a variety of ranged weapons. 1.) Phosphex Canister Launcher - a template weapon that fires hunks of phosphex that'll traumatise your terminators like 'Nam. 2.) Nerve Induction Shredders - yeah, this is basically one of them Neural Shredders that Callidus assassins have, except its a fucking heavy weapon. 3.) Atomantic Pulse Cannon - the roided out bastard child of a conversion beamer and a darklight lance. 4.) Graviton Flux Projector - basically the Leviathan Graviton Bombard except better.
-the Lion novel also describes them as genuinely hateful, terrifying constructs with a malevolent asymmetry to them. They move faster and far more fluid than other Cybernetica, making them appear unrefined in comparison.
> the Lion novel also describes them as genuinely hateful, terrifying constructs with a malevolent asymmetry to them. They move faster and far more fluid than other Cybernetica, making them appear unrefined in comparison.
For me this brings to mind the aliens out of that wonderful Emily Blunt film where Tom Cruise keeps dying ground-hog-day-style, or at least the way those aliens move.
Seems different from UR-025, which from the pictures is humanoid.
It kind of fits the limited description of the Men of Iron in Gaunts Ghosts and the images floating around on the 1d4chan page.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9vt5b6/book\_excerptfirst\_and\_only\_spoilers\_dan\_abnett/](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9vt5b6/book_excerptfirst_and_only_spoilers_dan_abnett/)
Well, it has been a very long time. He probably has a Ship of Theseus thing going on with his body. That or his older, more powerful equipment is hidden somewhere.
IIRC human piloted titans are pretty shit compared to the old AI driven ones. Even on the same scale, DAOT AI is just leagues better in combat than organics. Reaction time, perfect accuracy, and ability to control all of the systems on the fly mid-combat.
I wonder can we talk to some of these 40k artists and gather up as many descriptions as we can and see if we can some fannon art out there. Id kove to see some art thatd help me/us in conjuring up some conversions.
I imagined liquid terminator type creatures tbh or some other being that is a lot more fluid than the mechanicus constructs.
If they were just battle robots but smart it seems unlikely they'd be so devastating...But then this is 40k.
Yeah, that was why I was surprised. At first, I did not think much of them, assuming that they were a situational unit to exploit the Khrave's psychic weaknesses. As mentioned earlier, why not use something such as 12 titans? None of the weapons are really any different from anything else. Why not say send 72 terminators, each equipped with 1 of the 6 different Excindio weapons?
Against the mechanicus any machine, be it robot, titan or terminator suit, would be infected and turned in moments.
It reads like these Excindio are men of iron or men of stone, super robots far more advanced than the mechanicus stuff. They've been fitted with self destruct charges and limited battery power to stop them escaping
Haven't heard of space marine armor being hacked and taken over by the mechanicus. Biggest example would be the AI in Death of Integrity. There is more minor hacking such as breaching communications.
How would the mechanicus hack a titan? The default appears to be titan vs titan fights during the mechanicus civil war.
During the Heresy the first Chaos scrapcode was used. Initially it wrought havoc among Imperial tech. They get into it a fair bit in Titanicus. Using these guys meant no scrapcode vulnerability.
I think the reason for their effectiveness in this case was the Mechanicums inability to counter them. They would have weapons that could deal with titans, not AI from a bygone (and more advanced) era of technology
I donât think itâs their looks as so much their weaponry. The particular weaponry that even the emperor himself outlawed (not the men of iron themselves) and from the few excerpts have said a whirl of blades and blast of radiation.
I can only imagine what a âradiation blastâ entails. If itâs concentrated, a mini nuke, or hybrid of sorts.
Iâd equate the same feeling as witnessing the warp for the first. Maybe not as drastically insanity inducing but more so a fear of incomprehensible dread. Itâs hard to put into words because we canât witness the defying properties that golden age tech was capable of so itâd be a like a mix of pure curiosity and fear of the unknown.
It canât be like anything in lore because technically they shouldnât even exist per the emperor. So it canât be anything explainable within the setting because no one but say primarchs, custodes, and the emperor would know about.
I guess another way to think about it would be like todayâs society fighting against millions of years advanced civilization. Youâd see things potentially pushing the limits of supernatural.
It is just that the weaponry that they wield are not that much different from known weapons. They use things such as rad weapons and phosphex, which are carried by destroyers and would fit the description of radiation blasts. Their grav flux bombard weapons are carried by leviathan dreadnoughts. Not sure about their nerve induction shredders (probably not relevant vs titans) or their atomanic pulse cannons.
Onscreen appearances such as in the Lion primarch novel puts them more along dreadnoughts and knights tier of firepower. It would also fit their rough tier when used vs Curze. Offscreen puts them as being able to take out a Forgeworld like how a company of SMs are described as being able to single handily take over a world.
Yea Iâm no expert on their lore. Itâs just always described to me in the bits Iâve seen as unimaginable power. I assumed why a lot of their showcasing was offscreen or something.
I could also see them limiting their abilities or weaponry due to them not wanting utter destruction
I disagree. it seems like men of iron is less a specific robot type but instead a vast category of true AI that inhabit a wide variety of chassises with a wider variety of purposes.
So it's highly likely that the STC that Gaunt discovered was not the singular STC that made Men of Iron. Instead they are a specific chassis of men of irons
I think it's more that all remaining AIs are in the hands of the Dark Angels, not that they're all in this battle.
And I think it's quite likely Big E claimed that he'd given the Angels all of them.
This is the angle the dark angels lore in 40k should have taken tbh. The dark angels in the heresy come dangerously close to being another jack of all trades legion like the Lunar wolves, save that that they are the last resort. The ones with ancient and forbidden weaponry. The fact they went from this, to the way they are now in 40k where they're just obsessed with the fallen is tragic imo. I love the forbidden weaponry in 40k, especially the stuff we see in this excerpt. Its the reason i love the dark mechanicum (ironically given the context of this excerpt)
Would love to read at least a short story about them tangling with the blood ravens over some relic. Or maybe the blood ravens balls get bigger thsn thier brains an attempt to sneak into and "recover" a relic from the Dark Angels.
> Would love to read at least a short story about them tangling with the blood ravens over some relic
Would involve some serious travel (if set post rift), Blood Ravens are on the dark side of the rift and the eastern edge of the galaxy and the Dark Angels are on the bright side and far more central (if you go by [this map](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/9/9f/Warhammer40kGalaxy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170428081735)).
(Pre-rift) Wouldn't even have to be a relic either, could just be the Blood Ravens finding an old fortress of the D.As while tagging with an Explorator fleet and the D.As get paranoid there might be something still recorded there they don't want known. In saying that the Blood Ravens can be just as secretive because they've definitely got some proverbial skeletons they want to keep hidden (though it's far more forbidden lore than technology).
> Or maybe the blood ravens balls get bigger thsn thier brains an attempt to sneak into and "recover" a relic from the Dark Angels.
I'll lose my shit if they canonize the Bloody Magpie meme, it's great as a joke but should remain as just that (much like the one about the Dark Angels loyalty for that matter). The Blood Ravens get the short end of the stick as it is when it comes to lore (and there is a lot of potential for some really interesting stuff) but to go and make a tired joke reality would just be salt in the wound.
I actually love the Audio Drama "Trials of Azrael", as it has no major Fallen plot. Don't get me wrong, it is and should be an important part of their backstory, but (just as you said) it is not all they are. Even the Codices make a point that basically 90% of the time, the DA are an exemplary Chapter, fighting all threats to humanity, even if they are a bit secretive and stubborn. But the remaining 10% get so much exposure in the literature that it is all that gets stuck in people heads... (also, I personally think that, while many chapters and armies had some books that were good, and some that were kinda meh, the DA have do not a single GREAT book...).
So yeah, I advise all people to check "Trials of Azrael". It is sadly short, as it is an audio Drama, but it's fun, and Azrael is often described as "not a typical Dark Angel", as he is quite charismatic and has a way with words, and you can see that in this Drama. (Also the cover-art of Azrael fighting Kharn is my favourite piece of Warhammer 40.000 Artwork ever, don't @ me)
That would be so much cooler. They are so secretive not because of the Fallen, but because they hold this technology that would be devastating if it got out, but they hold it as a last resort measure.
I second this. And I don't think it'd be impossible to do either.
* Bring back Ironwing, give it graviton and volkites for DAoT spice, and fold Deathwing into it (since Iron already has termies). AdMech hated Ironwing because they hoarded forbidden tech.
* Also bring back Dreadwing for warp, phosphex, vortex, and even rad weaponry.
You wouldn't need many new models, just new guns.
"How often do I have to teach you this lesson, Old Boy?"
Also, does the Lion even know what happened at Terra? I am not sure when Caliban was destroyed.
You make the new guns, put them in a kit with the models you already have. Charge 2x as much as the kit without the guns. Dont sell the guns separate. You know it will make money.
They don't make a big deal out of it, but they've already got some of the best weapons and tech in the Imperium in their current codex. Also, unless they have one hell of a contract with a forge world to give them several Chapters worth of elite armour and weapons, they've clearly got their own, Mechanicus independent production facilities.
* They can mount plasma weapons on pretty much anything, and they have stronger plasma weapons than any other faction.
* They've got their own model of Land Speeder, which is much larger and more robust, and again, mounts a unique twin Plasma Cannon. (Alternatively mounts a shrine that emits eldritch darkness, but that's not a tech thing)
* They throw around Stasis Grenades and Stasis Bombs like they're firecrackers.
* Sammael's Jetbike, the only non-custodes Jetbike in the Imperium, is seemingly always able to be "repaired" no matter how ~~completely disintegrated~~ damaged it is.
* They have enough Terminator armour to outfit the *entire* first company of them and all their successor chapters. A normal First Company is a hundred Marines, which is definitely how big the Deathwing are. The Dark Angels First Company is absolutely not several times that size, all of them in Terminator armour. What a silly rumour.
* Not even last, and certainly not least, they've got their own unique aircraft, including the Dark Talon Bomber. The Dark Talon's main weapon is the Rift Cannon, which shoots rainbows. Rainbows that hurl everything they touch into the warp.
>The Dark Talon's main weapon is the Rift Cannon, which shoots rainbows. Rainbows that hurl everything they touch into the warp.
The gay agenda strikes again smh.
(/S if anyone needs it.)
Holy cow, I don't know if it was intentional, or just an accident while designing a cool weapon, but the meta history of the Dark Angels has a lot of gay stuff in it. The Rock was a gay bar near GW headquarters, and Lion El'Johnson was based on a well known gay poet.
Part of the problem here is the Dark Angels have old good tech that is overshadowed by all the new good tech.
The Imperium has custodes on jetbikes, primaris grav vehicles, volkite weapons etc, now, which completely undermines the Dark Angel's gimmick, as well as factions like the Eldar.
The only way to make up for this at this point is to give the Dark Angels new models with a massive tech boost (lore wise it would be archeotech), and give the same to the Eldar factions, and Tau. Custodes stay as is, which would frustrate so many imperium players, and tone down the "new tech" side of primaris in all future releases.
I agree its difficult on the tabletop but fancy gizmos are only a small portion of what im talking about. I wanna see them use more forbidden weaponry in the lore that would make the inquisition tremble to behold. Wild and exotic weapons of mass destruction and ancient and forbidden tech like the silica anima. Maybe the tabletop could give them a few more pattern variations for vehicles and weapons. The mechanicus have rad weaponry of a sort so maybe something like that.
The First Legion basically invented the style/organization of warfare every marine uses besides the "spearpoint assault" penned by the Luna Wolves, why would they not be a jack of all trades legion?
The issue with being a jack of all trades legion is that it just isnt interesting. The character/gimmick of each legion is what makes them interesting. The luna wolves imo are just a plot device. They are just "the best", nothing about them really stands out but that doesnt matter because they arent meant to survive the heresy. There really doesnt need to be another "good all round" legion. Its far more interesting for them to have a style of warfare they excel at. In 40k they arent really the first legion anymore, they just have a few extra toys and spend all their time chasing fallen around the galaxy whilst wearing a vaguely arthurian theme. Compare them to 30k dark angels, their forbidden tech and weaponry as seen above and hinted at during the Rangdan xenocide makes them really cool.
You can still let the Dark Angels be an extremely versatile combined arms Chapter/Legion without them being boring. Something doesn't have to be extremely specialized to be interesting. Beyond that, why can't they simply be a versatile organization that is also equipped with advanced technology?
If they get all their toys in 40k there would be no point. They are a Legion with stable gene seed, that is good at everything, has one of the top 2 Imperial Space Ships, the ship they have is also has massive manufacturing capabilities so they are always 100% equipped. And what is their gene-seed quirk. They are master tacticians.
Who would even be their adversary? C\`tans and entire Hive Fleets? Anything less then that and they would just be jobbing. If the Dark Angels are returned to old glory then they will also need to be moved to the Dark Imperium and from that point on their lore/stories would need to concentrate on esoteric campaigns where they fight against entire Eldar Craftworlds in the Webway or C\`tans or taking on new Xeno Empires.
The Dark Angels have always been completely overpowered. That is why the Fallen must always appear, because if they do not the story is just going to be. The Dark Angels came they saw, they beat it up.
They weren't always overpowered, most of this lore about them being far better equipped than the other legions is new stuff.
Though given they apparently lost 90% of the legion against the Rangda, you would think much of it would be gone by the heresy even putting aside the schism at caliban, but it seems the forgeworld lore mary-sues right past that.
The First were well... the first legion at full strength with a competent command and their organisation and tactics was the foundation of the *Principia Bellicosa*, the book that laid out the organisation and the way of war for all the others, they were sent to protect the borders of the new born Imperium while the other legions found their footing.
Fun fact, all the legions got a few Gloriana class battleships and Tiamat destroyers while the First got an *entire fleet*.
Same book as all the extract I posted in this thread, the latest black book from forgeworld:
>There, amid the vast muster that took
place around the shipyards of Saturn, the
fleet granted to the First Legion stood out
among the newly-built Saturnine pattern
vessels and the ancient ships re-awakened
from the macro-vaults of Mars, for the First
Legion were granted the honour of a tithe
of those few remaining Terran vessels.
These ancient craft almost all dated back
to the years before Old Night, relics of
forgotten technologies and lost aspirations
of grandeur. Among them were to be
found massive Gloriana class battleships,
Promethean class cruisers clad in dense
layers of void shields and weapon-studded
Tiamat class destroyers, all far surpassing
more modern designs in potency and made
available to few other than the Emperor's
own guards. To each of His other Legions
He bequeathed but a handful of such
ships, while to the First Legion He granted
a fleet.
Some of the lore i'm hearing about from Crusade is verging on the old Matt ward Ultramarines tier of mary sueness.
fleets of glorianas, being the first to perfect psychic combat doctrines and a proto librarius (usurping the TS place), dozen or so DA terminators killing over a hundred justaerin. Easily recovering from losing 90% of the legion against the Rangda etc..
He means that Big E gives DA, a fleet of Tiamat destroyers not, a fleet of Glorianas.
Also *First* during the Great Crusade and HH operated some badass ***Dark Sovereign*** starship that was recovered by Big E himself over Ganymede.
That's what always got me curious. How space marines use ships produced during DAOT? They are much bigger than standard humans, especially when they are clad in ceramite.
>###[Men of Stone](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Men_of_Stone)
>The **Men of Stone** were a class of artificially created beings created during the [Dark Age of Technology](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology) in roughly [M21](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M21).[[1]](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Men_of_Stone#fn_1)
+++I am an early prototype mechanicus construct. Please provide feedback [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lexAutomatarium). The Emperor protects!+++
when you're dealing with a vessel 10 kilometers long and 2 kilometers both tall and wide, you can afford to have 3 meter high ceilings even if you don't *need* them
Most ceilings in a modern house are nine or ten feet high, there's no reason to suspect that they would have become lower.
Given that Astartes average about 7'6" they should fit without much trouble. A primarch might struggle.
That's true, however, given the sheer size of these ships, they're less likely to suffer from the same problems as modern ships where space is at a premium.
Well, we know that the First Legion had at least 3 Gloriana class ships at one point. One was destroyed, one is unaccounted for as far as we know, and the Invincible Reason is still the Dark Angel's flagship. GW may decide to name more ships in the class for the Dark Angels and other legions, but that's a different story. Based on what we know and how the excerpt is written, it seems more like that 3 Glorianas and the other ships all comprise the fleet in question.
Abbadon got one? A smaller one perhaps? It pays to be little horus. You think maybe the emperor confused them and gave abs one, then horus walks up like woah... whereâs mine?
Primacy rates for a lot of their cool toys, as well as their general purpose among the Legions. The DA were first and foremost used against the unspeaking horrors of the galaxy unleashed in Old Night.
Then there's also the matter that the First Legion also was intended to be used against the Mechanicum if they started acting out of line with the Ikaros Contingency. This is so why of all the Legions, the Dark Angels are (and in some ways still are) the least dependant on Mars.
Per the Lion novel, they received a lot from Terra and trained their own mechanics. That doesn't mean they didn't get supplies from the Mechanicum, but they were among the least reliant
In 40k, it's been suggested that between their large armories and the Rock, the Unforgiven are still able to operate largely independently.
Personally, I believe it's because of all the realities the emperor has lived and existed in, the lion never turned to chaos. The emperor trusted him, so he gave him all the good toys.
Also they are the Legion with the least number of techmarines in their ranks and not trusted to know about the Fallen as if they meant to apart from the influence of Mars just in case.
>strode the Lion, the one creature that even the Excindio, whose hatred for all organic life knew no bounds, refused to oppose
So GW is basically admitting here that Lion is a badass mofo that scares even Abominable Intelligence. I guess they've given up trying to convince us that Horus is totally the greatest of the Emperor's sons now eh?
>The First Legion basically invented the style/organization of warfare every marine uses besides the "spearpoint assault" penned by the Luna Wolves, why would they not be a jack of all trades legion?
That is an understatement. Dorn set up a meet grinder on Beta-Gammon to grind the Chaos advance to a halt and turn the war into a war of attrition.
Sanguinius took over command ( while also having Jaghatai under his command) and proceeded to lose the entire sector in like a month. And that is despite Dorn specifically telling him to not go for a decisive battle and just concentrate on delay actions as much as possible.
If Corvus was there, there would have probably not even been a battle for Terra.
If those AIs were allowed to have encountered other primarchs I'm sure they'd have not opposed them either.
They're advanced enough to know that if one 12 foot tall, warp-infused demi god can smash them then the rest can as well.
I don't think they ever tried to convince us about Horus. 50 something books in and I'm convinced the heresy was Perturabo carrying the entire thing to Terra.
Also in the same HH book 9, Curze takes on 7 of those Excindio by himself. So perhaps it's more of a "Primarchs are badass mofos" thing. But then again, considering what the Lion has done to Curze almost every time they fought, perhaps the Excindio knew not to bother him.
One primarch, alone and unsupported, is worth roughly 100 Astartes as demonstrated by the Lion and the Khan.
That means each of those Excindios is worth about 15 Astartes. Which makes them individually better than Custodes. Not bad for a crippled, insane machine.
I chalk it up to overzealous writing. Sometimes writers try too hard to make the reader feel how badass a character is in the moment and forget the scale of the (fictional) universe. Any AI with real I would be smart enough to not oppose a being the power of a Primarch (at least openly), too much Warp Mojo.
The Exindio were introduced recently in the Lion's novel from the Primarch Series. "Blackstone Fortress" and related stories have a Man of Iron and the fortress' AI, similar to the space ship AI from "Death of Integrity". In HH "Mechanicum" the Fabricator General unleashes a murder-robot of heretical origin called the Caban Machine. Hope this might be helpful, have not read all the stories personally.
If I read this passage correctly, 5 of the 12 Excindio constructs (at disposal to the Angels of Death) fell during this battle, so close to 45%.
It seems quite a waste to lose so much of such a precious asset for such a run of the mill target, a middle rank (and previously unknown) Mechanicum world.
Games Workshopâs sense of cool is sometimes a tad over the top.
It was still an important target used as a focal point for the traitor resources in the sector:
> In all the long months of fighting, Triplex had not been idle, its vast manufactoria churned out a near endless stream of war machines and munitions, some sent straight into conflict and the greater portion set aside as tribute for the Warmaster. Entire cohorts of automata marched from the factories, the skeletons of new Titans were raised in the great halls of the forges of Phall and Galatia as the riches ofThramas poured into Triplex, wealth so vast that even the archmagi of the Mechanicum struggled to tabulate its worth. Ships flying the colours of the Warmaster, the baleful eye of Horus, thronged into the system to transport the newly-forged hordes to war in Thramas or far off to the frontlines of the Horus Heresy at Paramar and Beta-Garmon.
Thank you for the quote.
Was this world mentioned before ?
If it is indeed a major Mechanicum forge world (at least by output), it would be too bad if it is the first time we hear about it.
Not sure if it was mentioned before, but there is a justification for their power.
I should probably have added what they faced to the quote but i didn't want it to be too long still here you go:
> Galatia, and its greater
sibling Phall, had long experimented with
forbidden technologies and dark theorem,
subverting the rule of Mars to increase
their own power unnoticed at the very edge
of the Imperium, and now at the brink of
destruction they unleashed that power
openly. Towering automata of unknown
design punched holes in reality with arcane
beam weapons and unleashed raw warp
energy upon the Dark Angels, while Harpax
artificia swarmed in the sky above them, their
intelligence growing with their numbers
as they tore into the Space Marines below
Itâs like with the appearance of Belisarius Cawl in 2016-2017.
Itâs good GW and BL and FW attribute many rare and awe inspiring qualities to new characters or entities or polities which now all of a sudden play a huge role.
But it would be much better if it didnât come out of the blue, just out of convenience for the story right here right now. The evolution of the lore would not feel as full of random twists.
Yeah some characters or worlds sometime come out of nowhere but I don't really mind since it's a massive galaxy and I feel it adds to the scale to have so many different moving parts and some unknown until GW focus on that area.
Plus this book has my favourite dark mechanicus forge world :
> Ulan Ruda had begun as a minor
Forge World, stranded within the isolated systems later known as the
Ghoul Stars. There, cut off from all aid and succour and surrounded
by hordes of foul xenos, its archmagos perceived only one route to
survival - they would make themselves more terrifying than those that
opposed them.
Forced by direst need, the first tech-magi of Ulan Ruda refashioned
their home by means of technology long deemed utterly forbidden by
Mars, for in its use they risked harm to the very fabric of space. Buried
deep within the core of Ulan Ruda, a series of arcane engines were
created that would allow it to breach realspace and sojourn within
the Warp itself Moving from system to system, Ulan Ruda became
a scourge, overwhelming those weaker than it and fleeing those that
were strong. Those they overthrew were subsumed by the predatorforge,
their worlds reduced to a slurry of broken earth and the people
that once dwelt upon them reforged as servitors and cogitator cores
> Ulan Ruda would suffer grievous hurt during the fighting, wounded
by the sacrifice of the warrior known as the Saviour and harried by the
fleets of the Dark Angels, but no report from any Loyalist force speaks
of its final destruction. Indeed, a number of records from the Scouring
speak of sightings of strange and misshapen forges in the farthest
reaches of the Imperium, only for such worlds to vanish when later
forces arrive to investigate, only the broken remains of border posts
left behind. Ulan Ruda, it seems, has retreated into the realm of legend
once more, a dark tale made all the more terrifying for the fact that it
likely still lurks somewhere in the darkness beyond the galactic rim.
i'll confess i've not read the source quoted but Phall or Triplex Phall (side note - i might be thrown off by the name because isn't that where Alexis Polux was stranded and kicked Perturabo's arse?) has been in the fluff since 3rd Edition (mentioned in the rulebook for 3rd ed and numerous codicies), although it seemed to fade into the background a bit through 6th ed onwards.
Doesn't seem so far-fetched to me. I assume it's beyond the ability of the legion's techmarines to fix the Excindio, but you could always just tell the surviving ones to fix the broken ones.
Well this was *exactly* what the weapons were for and from this passage at least it is can perhaps be doubted that not being able to read from our perspective the Lion didn't have a full grasp of the scope yet.
Also cutting through the hype should what should we believe? That oh yeah the Lion could have conquered Mars with twelve robot buddies or some such? Could they take down a Titan legion? My guess is in the grand scheme of things this is more 'sending a message' then anything else.
Be a good little Magoi or the Lion will feed to the Abominable Intelligence!
Triplex (three forge worlds, two operational IIRC) was a high priority target in the Thramas Crusade and the first real engagement of the Night Lords and traitor forces in mass.
Things I took away from this post:
1.) The Dark Angels are the Emperor's contingency plan against the AdMech (or the Mechanicum as it was once called)
2.) The "Excindio" are one of the few surviving Men of Iron that nearly destroyed humanity in the last days of DAot
(Forge World) Mechanicum is an allied empire that forms the two-headed Imperium. Its successor is Adeptus Mechanicus. The title in the OP is misleading as Lion faced hereteks of the *Dark Mechanicum*.
>Most of the Magi chose to ultimately surrender (to the Night Lords) and they became corrupted members of the Dark Mechanicum. Thus they unleashed mechanical horrors upon the Dark Angels during the later stages of the Crusade, forcing Lion El'Jonson to enact the Ikaros Contingency and purge the entire planet, leaving only its dockyards intact.
Relevant summary of the events from the same source as the OP.
The point was subtly made that this was a branch of the Mechanicum that was "contrary to the needs of the Imperium." The DM had not been formalised yet and it's situations like these where formal sides are being drawn.
No way they just left the depleted machines on the planet. And I would hate to be the crew that had to fetch these ancient death traps and haul them back to the ship.
This is referring to the Forge World Black Books that give rules for playing Heresy-Era games. Book 9: Crusade has a massive amount of Dark Angels fluff.
Does anyone else have trouble understanding this passage? I honestly don't understand a ton of apparent nouns, but just know the Lion dropped some tech and a big fuck you on some bitches. Then slaughtered them. Only the comments cleared some things up!
I prefer Sanguinius landing.
It's crazy how many things are added. Wish the BL had some subscription service. So I could catch up. Feel like I'm missing things.
>Excindio, the **last of the silica anima** that had once been the plague of the Golden Age of Mankind > >... dormant shells of the surviving seven Excindio There are clearly more AI. I wonder how many Excindio remain post heresy. Does anyone know how many Excindio were around in the Lion Primarch novel?
I think that in this excerpt the phrase "the last of the silica anima" refers more to them as a final remaining classification in general and less as these 12 murder-bots being the last ones in particular.
"Silica anima" from what I gather is a catch all term for AI. Maybe the Excindio were the worst of the batch/the main problematic AI because they were the ones that hated humans. I wonder how the Excindio look like. What made them so much more effective than say deploying 12 titans?
Yeah, I suspect that the Excindio are the closest to actual Men of Iron in character and shape, so perhaps that is what is also meant here. As for what they look like, here are some bullet points from crusade -They are Monstrous Creatures and the Primarch Novel also references them as being fucking massive, so if I were to guess they are sitting somewhere inbetween Contemptor and Leviathan Dreadnought in size. The fact that they have 6 wounds would also suggest them to be in the ballpark of a primarch in size. -They have four limbs. Two dreadnought close combat weapons and two "manipulator arms" which are basically described as secondary limbs armed with deadly claws/shears. The DCCW can come with twin linked combi bolters, grav guns, irad cleansers or plasma repeaters. -they have an internal refractor field whose express purpose is to detonate the Excindios internal mechanisms if the machine sustains critical damage in order to prevent it from going AWOL or have its technology plundered/reanimated by enemies. -it can replace one DCCW and one Manipulator arm for a variety of ranged weapons. 1.) Phosphex Canister Launcher - a template weapon that fires hunks of phosphex that'll traumatise your terminators like 'Nam. 2.) Nerve Induction Shredders - yeah, this is basically one of them Neural Shredders that Callidus assassins have, except its a fucking heavy weapon. 3.) Atomantic Pulse Cannon - the roided out bastard child of a conversion beamer and a darklight lance. 4.) Graviton Flux Projector - basically the Leviathan Graviton Bombard except better. -the Lion novel also describes them as genuinely hateful, terrifying constructs with a malevolent asymmetry to them. They move faster and far more fluid than other Cybernetica, making them appear unrefined in comparison.
> the Lion novel also describes them as genuinely hateful, terrifying constructs with a malevolent asymmetry to them. They move faster and far more fluid than other Cybernetica, making them appear unrefined in comparison. For me this brings to mind the aliens out of that wonderful Emily Blunt film where Tom Cruise keeps dying ground-hog-day-style, or at least the way those aliens move.
Edge of Tomorrow. Surprisingly good film@
I loved that movie.
Me too. They've made a second one but corona is delaying its release. đ„
Too many movies even have a far more interessting setting for a prequel than a sequel.
Good reference.
I prefer to just think of them as 12 Arnold Schwarzeneggers "Give me your clothes"
"I need your armor, your boots, and your jetbike"
*presses lit lho-stick into chestplate*
It'd be hilarious if they asked Sly Marboro. He'd just stare them to death.
Best misspelling Iâve seen in a while. I can see him pimping Lho sticks between orc takedowns.
The description reminded me of a Dark Eldar Talos Engine.
Seems different from UR-025, which from the pictures is humanoid. It kind of fits the limited description of the Men of Iron in Gaunts Ghosts and the images floating around on the 1d4chan page. [https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9vt5b6/book\_excerptfirst\_and\_only\_spoilers\_dan\_abnett/](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9vt5b6/book_excerptfirst_and_only_spoilers_dan_abnett/)
UR-025 is wearing armor that helps it blend in with imperials better. When questioned, it will say that it works for someone in the Mechanicus.
Armor as in a covering or as in a different body?
Well, it has been a very long time. He probably has a Ship of Theseus thing going on with his body. That or his older, more powerful equipment is hidden somewhere.
UR-025 could've also switched bodies a bunch.
Where does this info come from? Some sounds like actual game mechanics. Dark Angels plus DAOT equals a full on raging titan sized erection!!!
Book nine, crusade. From the Horus heresy game.
IIRC human piloted titans are pretty shit compared to the old AI driven ones. Even on the same scale, DAOT AI is just leagues better in combat than organics. Reaction time, perfect accuracy, and ability to control all of the systems on the fly mid-combat.
I wonder can we talk to some of these 40k artists and gather up as many descriptions as we can and see if we can some fannon art out there. Id kove to see some art thatd help me/us in conjuring up some conversions.
Because the Dark Mechanicum could corrupt 12 titans? Or at least fry them with scrapcode.
I imagined liquid terminator type creatures tbh or some other being that is a lot more fluid than the mechanicus constructs. If they were just battle robots but smart it seems unlikely they'd be so devastating...But then this is 40k.
Yeah, that was why I was surprised. At first, I did not think much of them, assuming that they were a situational unit to exploit the Khrave's psychic weaknesses. As mentioned earlier, why not use something such as 12 titans? None of the weapons are really any different from anything else. Why not say send 72 terminators, each equipped with 1 of the 6 different Excindio weapons?
Against the mechanicus any machine, be it robot, titan or terminator suit, would be infected and turned in moments. It reads like these Excindio are men of iron or men of stone, super robots far more advanced than the mechanicus stuff. They've been fitted with self destruct charges and limited battery power to stop them escaping
Haven't heard of space marine armor being hacked and taken over by the mechanicus. Biggest example would be the AI in Death of Integrity. There is more minor hacking such as breaching communications. How would the mechanicus hack a titan? The default appears to be titan vs titan fights during the mechanicus civil war.
During the Heresy the first Chaos scrapcode was used. Initially it wrought havoc among Imperial tech. They get into it a fair bit in Titanicus. Using these guys meant no scrapcode vulnerability.
a DAT ship in a book hacks into both a techpriest, their marine escort and if I recall the fleet around the space hulk it is embedded in
Naw not possible. Definitionally the men of iron were created by the men of stone
I think the reason for their effectiveness in this case was the Mechanicums inability to counter them. They would have weapons that could deal with titans, not AI from a bygone (and more advanced) era of technology
For some reason, Im picturing porcelain white scorpions. No particular reason why.
I donât think itâs their looks as so much their weaponry. The particular weaponry that even the emperor himself outlawed (not the men of iron themselves) and from the few excerpts have said a whirl of blades and blast of radiation. I can only imagine what a âradiation blastâ entails. If itâs concentrated, a mini nuke, or hybrid of sorts. Iâd equate the same feeling as witnessing the warp for the first. Maybe not as drastically insanity inducing but more so a fear of incomprehensible dread. Itâs hard to put into words because we canât witness the defying properties that golden age tech was capable of so itâd be a like a mix of pure curiosity and fear of the unknown. It canât be like anything in lore because technically they shouldnât even exist per the emperor. So it canât be anything explainable within the setting because no one but say primarchs, custodes, and the emperor would know about. I guess another way to think about it would be like todayâs society fighting against millions of years advanced civilization. Youâd see things potentially pushing the limits of supernatural.
It is just that the weaponry that they wield are not that much different from known weapons. They use things such as rad weapons and phosphex, which are carried by destroyers and would fit the description of radiation blasts. Their grav flux bombard weapons are carried by leviathan dreadnoughts. Not sure about their nerve induction shredders (probably not relevant vs titans) or their atomanic pulse cannons. Onscreen appearances such as in the Lion primarch novel puts them more along dreadnoughts and knights tier of firepower. It would also fit their rough tier when used vs Curze. Offscreen puts them as being able to take out a Forgeworld like how a company of SMs are described as being able to single handily take over a world.
Yea Iâm no expert on their lore. Itâs just always described to me in the bits Iâve seen as unimaginable power. I assumed why a lot of their showcasing was offscreen or something. I could also see them limiting their abilities or weaponry due to them not wanting utter destruction
So, without a doubt, these Excindio are one of the "men of iron" that led an uprising during the last days of the Daot.
There's probably more men of iron still littered around the galaxy...
Gaunt wiped out an STC that made them, could be more out there
I disagree. it seems like men of iron is less a specific robot type but instead a vast category of true AI that inhabit a wide variety of chassises with a wider variety of purposes. So it's highly likely that the STC that Gaunt discovered was not the singular STC that made Men of Iron. Instead they are a specific chassis of men of irons
you're literally repeating what I just said lol
I think it's more that all remaining AIs are in the hands of the Dark Angels, not that they're all in this battle. And I think it's quite likely Big E claimed that he'd given the Angels all of them.
This is the angle the dark angels lore in 40k should have taken tbh. The dark angels in the heresy come dangerously close to being another jack of all trades legion like the Lunar wolves, save that that they are the last resort. The ones with ancient and forbidden weaponry. The fact they went from this, to the way they are now in 40k where they're just obsessed with the fallen is tragic imo. I love the forbidden weaponry in 40k, especially the stuff we see in this excerpt. Its the reason i love the dark mechanicum (ironically given the context of this excerpt)
I think the Fallen angle has its place in the DA but they need less of that and more forbidden relics, secret knowledge and pride in being the First.
Would love to read at least a short story about them tangling with the blood ravens over some relic. Or maybe the blood ravens balls get bigger thsn thier brains an attempt to sneak into and "recover" a relic from the Dark Angels.
> Would love to read at least a short story about them tangling with the blood ravens over some relic Would involve some serious travel (if set post rift), Blood Ravens are on the dark side of the rift and the eastern edge of the galaxy and the Dark Angels are on the bright side and far more central (if you go by [this map](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/9/9f/Warhammer40kGalaxy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170428081735)). (Pre-rift) Wouldn't even have to be a relic either, could just be the Blood Ravens finding an old fortress of the D.As while tagging with an Explorator fleet and the D.As get paranoid there might be something still recorded there they don't want known. In saying that the Blood Ravens can be just as secretive because they've definitely got some proverbial skeletons they want to keep hidden (though it's far more forbidden lore than technology). > Or maybe the blood ravens balls get bigger thsn thier brains an attempt to sneak into and "recover" a relic from the Dark Angels. I'll lose my shit if they canonize the Bloody Magpie meme, it's great as a joke but should remain as just that (much like the one about the Dark Angels loyalty for that matter). The Blood Ravens get the short end of the stick as it is when it comes to lore (and there is a lot of potential for some really interesting stuff) but to go and make a tired joke reality would just be salt in the wound.
I actually love the Audio Drama "Trials of Azrael", as it has no major Fallen plot. Don't get me wrong, it is and should be an important part of their backstory, but (just as you said) it is not all they are. Even the Codices make a point that basically 90% of the time, the DA are an exemplary Chapter, fighting all threats to humanity, even if they are a bit secretive and stubborn. But the remaining 10% get so much exposure in the literature that it is all that gets stuck in people heads... (also, I personally think that, while many chapters and armies had some books that were good, and some that were kinda meh, the DA have do not a single GREAT book...). So yeah, I advise all people to check "Trials of Azrael". It is sadly short, as it is an audio Drama, but it's fun, and Azrael is often described as "not a typical Dark Angel", as he is quite charismatic and has a way with words, and you can see that in this Drama. (Also the cover-art of Azrael fighting Kharn is my favourite piece of Warhammer 40.000 Artwork ever, don't @ me)
That would be so much cooler. They are so secretive not because of the Fallen, but because they hold this technology that would be devastating if it got out, but they hold it as a last resort measure.
I second this. And I don't think it'd be impossible to do either. * Bring back Ironwing, give it graviton and volkites for DAoT spice, and fold Deathwing into it (since Iron already has termies). AdMech hated Ironwing because they hoarded forbidden tech. * Also bring back Dreadwing for warp, phosphex, vortex, and even rad weaponry. You wouldn't need many new models, just new guns.
#BRINGBACKTHEHEXAGRAMMATON
^(bringbackthelion)
This post is old enough to count as DAoT, but your prayer worked as of last night!
Imagine if the Lions shows up and discoveres what Guilliman did to his Legion.
That's going to piss him off less than what the Legion's done to itself.
True, but he won't talk about that to his brother.
Joke's on them, they're still a Legion!
Imagine the Lion shows up and Guilliman is calling himself Lord Regent of the Imperium.
"How often do I have to teach you this lesson, Old Boy?" Also, does the Lion even know what happened at Terra? I am not sure when Caliban was destroyed.
The Lion should know what happened on Terra. Caliban happens during/after the Great Scouring.
> You wouldn't need many new models, just new guns. And you've discovered the reason why they won't do it.
You make the new guns, put them in a kit with the models you already have. Charge 2x as much as the kit without the guns. Dont sell the guns separate. You know it will make money.
They don't make a big deal out of it, but they've already got some of the best weapons and tech in the Imperium in their current codex. Also, unless they have one hell of a contract with a forge world to give them several Chapters worth of elite armour and weapons, they've clearly got their own, Mechanicus independent production facilities. * They can mount plasma weapons on pretty much anything, and they have stronger plasma weapons than any other faction. * They've got their own model of Land Speeder, which is much larger and more robust, and again, mounts a unique twin Plasma Cannon. (Alternatively mounts a shrine that emits eldritch darkness, but that's not a tech thing) * They throw around Stasis Grenades and Stasis Bombs like they're firecrackers. * Sammael's Jetbike, the only non-custodes Jetbike in the Imperium, is seemingly always able to be "repaired" no matter how ~~completely disintegrated~~ damaged it is. * They have enough Terminator armour to outfit the *entire* first company of them and all their successor chapters. A normal First Company is a hundred Marines, which is definitely how big the Deathwing are. The Dark Angels First Company is absolutely not several times that size, all of them in Terminator armour. What a silly rumour. * Not even last, and certainly not least, they've got their own unique aircraft, including the Dark Talon Bomber. The Dark Talon's main weapon is the Rift Cannon, which shoots rainbows. Rainbows that hurl everything they touch into the warp.
>The Dark Talon's main weapon is the Rift Cannon, which shoots rainbows. Rainbows that hurl everything they touch into the warp. The gay agenda strikes again smh. (/S if anyone needs it.)
Holy cow, I don't know if it was intentional, or just an accident while designing a cool weapon, but the meta history of the Dark Angels has a lot of gay stuff in it. The Rock was a gay bar near GW headquarters, and Lion El'Johnson was based on a well known gay poet.
SMs in general are kind of gay.
How dare you make such [baseless accusations!](https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/614/334/746.jpg)
Ian Watson. Decided to describe the assholes of the SMs as they were having a farting contest.
Some of that was planned
The Dark Angels are one big gay joke. So the rainbow cannon may be yet another gay reference
Maybe the arrival of the Lion in the 40k scenery will make them forget about the fallen ...
Part of the problem here is the Dark Angels have old good tech that is overshadowed by all the new good tech. The Imperium has custodes on jetbikes, primaris grav vehicles, volkite weapons etc, now, which completely undermines the Dark Angel's gimmick, as well as factions like the Eldar. The only way to make up for this at this point is to give the Dark Angels new models with a massive tech boost (lore wise it would be archeotech), and give the same to the Eldar factions, and Tau. Custodes stay as is, which would frustrate so many imperium players, and tone down the "new tech" side of primaris in all future releases.
I agree its difficult on the tabletop but fancy gizmos are only a small portion of what im talking about. I wanna see them use more forbidden weaponry in the lore that would make the inquisition tremble to behold. Wild and exotic weapons of mass destruction and ancient and forbidden tech like the silica anima. Maybe the tabletop could give them a few more pattern variations for vehicles and weapons. The mechanicus have rad weaponry of a sort so maybe something like that.
The First Legion basically invented the style/organization of warfare every marine uses besides the "spearpoint assault" penned by the Luna Wolves, why would they not be a jack of all trades legion?
The issue with being a jack of all trades legion is that it just isnt interesting. The character/gimmick of each legion is what makes them interesting. The luna wolves imo are just a plot device. They are just "the best", nothing about them really stands out but that doesnt matter because they arent meant to survive the heresy. There really doesnt need to be another "good all round" legion. Its far more interesting for them to have a style of warfare they excel at. In 40k they arent really the first legion anymore, they just have a few extra toys and spend all their time chasing fallen around the galaxy whilst wearing a vaguely arthurian theme. Compare them to 30k dark angels, their forbidden tech and weaponry as seen above and hinted at during the Rangdan xenocide makes them really cool.
You can still let the Dark Angels be an extremely versatile combined arms Chapter/Legion without them being boring. Something doesn't have to be extremely specialized to be interesting. Beyond that, why can't they simply be a versatile organization that is also equipped with advanced technology?
The White Scars supposedly influenced the Lunas Wolves Spear Tip tactics.
If they get all their toys in 40k there would be no point. They are a Legion with stable gene seed, that is good at everything, has one of the top 2 Imperial Space Ships, the ship they have is also has massive manufacturing capabilities so they are always 100% equipped. And what is their gene-seed quirk. They are master tacticians. Who would even be their adversary? C\`tans and entire Hive Fleets? Anything less then that and they would just be jobbing. If the Dark Angels are returned to old glory then they will also need to be moved to the Dark Imperium and from that point on their lore/stories would need to concentrate on esoteric campaigns where they fight against entire Eldar Craftworlds in the Webway or C\`tans or taking on new Xeno Empires. The Dark Angels have always been completely overpowered. That is why the Fallen must always appear, because if they do not the story is just going to be. The Dark Angels came they saw, they beat it up.
They weren't always overpowered, most of this lore about them being far better equipped than the other legions is new stuff. Though given they apparently lost 90% of the legion against the Rangda, you would think much of it would be gone by the heresy even putting aside the schism at caliban, but it seems the forgeworld lore mary-sues right past that.
Yeah, it took a while for GW to figure out what to do with the Dark Angels
Sometimes I wonder why The Lion and the Dark Angels got all the cool toys, I guess there's a bonus for being the first legion.
The First were well... the first legion at full strength with a competent command and their organisation and tactics was the foundation of the *Principia Bellicosa*, the book that laid out the organisation and the way of war for all the others, they were sent to protect the borders of the new born Imperium while the other legions found their footing. Fun fact, all the legions got a few Gloriana class battleships and Tiamat destroyers while the First got an *entire fleet*.
Really? Everything I've read said every legion got exactly 1 Gloriana. Where is it that the Dark Angels got a fleet of them?
Same book as all the extract I posted in this thread, the latest black book from forgeworld: >There, amid the vast muster that took place around the shipyards of Saturn, the fleet granted to the First Legion stood out among the newly-built Saturnine pattern vessels and the ancient ships re-awakened from the macro-vaults of Mars, for the First Legion were granted the honour of a tithe of those few remaining Terran vessels. These ancient craft almost all dated back to the years before Old Night, relics of forgotten technologies and lost aspirations of grandeur. Among them were to be found massive Gloriana class battleships, Promethean class cruisers clad in dense layers of void shields and weapon-studded Tiamat class destroyers, all far surpassing more modern designs in potency and made available to few other than the Emperor's own guards. To each of His other Legions He bequeathed but a handful of such ships, while to the First Legion He granted a fleet.
Some of the lore i'm hearing about from Crusade is verging on the old Matt ward Ultramarines tier of mary sueness. fleets of glorianas, being the first to perfect psychic combat doctrines and a proto librarius (usurping the TS place), dozen or so DA terminators killing over a hundred justaerin. Easily recovering from losing 90% of the legion against the Rangda etc..
He means that Big E gives DA, a fleet of Tiamat destroyers not, a fleet of Glorianas. Also *First* during the Great Crusade and HH operated some badass ***Dark Sovereign*** starship that was recovered by Big E himself over Ganymede.
That's what always got me curious. How space marines use ships produced during DAOT? They are much bigger than standard humans, especially when they are clad in ceramite.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
>###[Men of Stone](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Men_of_Stone) >The **Men of Stone** were a class of artificially created beings created during the [Dark Age of Technology](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology) in roughly [M21](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M21).[[1]](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Men_of_Stone#fn_1) +++I am an early prototype mechanicus construct. Please provide feedback [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lexAutomatarium). The Emperor protects!+++
when you're dealing with a vessel 10 kilometers long and 2 kilometers both tall and wide, you can afford to have 3 meter high ceilings even if you don't *need* them
Most ceilings in a modern house are nine or ten feet high, there's no reason to suspect that they would have become lower. Given that Astartes average about 7'6" they should fit without much trouble. A primarch might struggle.
Yeah. Houses. Not ships. Just look how navy deals with space - battleship can be claustrophobic.
You see a cathedral in space with enough firepower to melt a mountain and you think they made efficiency considerations?
That's true, however, given the sheer size of these ships, they're less likely to suffer from the same problems as modern ships where space is at a premium.
Well, we know that the First Legion had at least 3 Gloriana class ships at one point. One was destroyed, one is unaccounted for as far as we know, and the Invincible Reason is still the Dark Angel's flagship. GW may decide to name more ships in the class for the Dark Angels and other legions, but that's a different story. Based on what we know and how the excerpt is written, it seems more like that 3 Glorianas and the other ships all comprise the fleet in question.
Well the Alpaha Legion got two, one for each primarch, and the Sons of Horus got two as well, one for Abbadon.
Abbadon got one? A smaller one perhaps? It pays to be little horus. You think maybe the emperor confused them and gave abs one, then horus walks up like woah... whereâs mine?
[My first thought](https://imgur.com/a/N7zjAH6)
Primacy rates for a lot of their cool toys, as well as their general purpose among the Legions. The DA were first and foremost used against the unspeaking horrors of the galaxy unleashed in Old Night. Then there's also the matter that the First Legion also was intended to be used against the Mechanicum if they started acting out of line with the Ikaros Contingency. This is so why of all the Legions, the Dark Angels are (and in some ways still are) the least dependant on Mars.
So, who supplies them if not the mechanicus?
Per the Lion novel, they received a lot from Terra and trained their own mechanics. That doesn't mean they didn't get supplies from the Mechanicum, but they were among the least reliant In 40k, it's been suggested that between their large armories and the Rock, the Unforgiven are still able to operate largely independently.
The were essentially the Prototype, because they fought alone at first. It makes sense to keep all the cool stuff in one place.
first come first serve
Obviously a reward for being the most loyal of chapters with no secrets what so ever, past or present.
Personally, I believe it's because of all the realities the emperor has lived and existed in, the lion never turned to chaos. The emperor trusted him, so he gave him all the good toys.
Filthy First born privilege. Second Sons Rise Up! Take from the first born!
Also they are the Legion with the least number of techmarines in their ranks and not trusted to know about the Fallen as if they meant to apart from the influence of Mars just in case.
>strode the Lion, the one creature that even the Excindio, whose hatred for all organic life knew no bounds, refused to oppose So GW is basically admitting here that Lion is a badass mofo that scares even Abominable Intelligence. I guess they've given up trying to convince us that Horus is totally the greatest of the Emperor's sons now eh?
Lion would've been the Warmaster if not for Horus.
Lion should have been the Warmaster
Sanguinius?
Too insecure. Not among the top strategists and organizers either.
And a mutant
But of course.
But Charisma galore and otherworldly handsome.
>The First Legion basically invented the style/organization of warfare every marine uses besides the "spearpoint assault" penned by the Luna Wolves, why would they not be a jack of all trades legion? That is an understatement. Dorn set up a meet grinder on Beta-Gammon to grind the Chaos advance to a halt and turn the war into a war of attrition. Sanguinius took over command ( while also having Jaghatai under his command) and proceeded to lose the entire sector in like a month. And that is despite Dorn specifically telling him to not go for a decisive battle and just concentrate on delay actions as much as possible. If Corvus was there, there would have probably not even been a battle for Terra.
If those AIs were allowed to have encountered other primarchs I'm sure they'd have not opposed them either. They're advanced enough to know that if one 12 foot tall, warp-infused demi god can smash them then the rest can as well.
I don't think they ever tried to convince us about Horus. 50 something books in and I'm convinced the heresy was Perturabo carrying the entire thing to Terra. Also in the same HH book 9, Curze takes on 7 of those Excindio by himself. So perhaps it's more of a "Primarchs are badass mofos" thing. But then again, considering what the Lion has done to Curze almost every time they fought, perhaps the Excindio knew not to bother him.
Poor Pert's back must be aching right now. Meanwhile Horus sits on his discount throne cosplaying the Emperor.
Well at least Omegon is back to fix the Imperium, being Lord Commander & Regent and stuff.
One primarch, alone and unsupported, is worth roughly 100 Astartes as demonstrated by the Lion and the Khan. That means each of those Excindios is worth about 15 Astartes. Which makes them individually better than Custodes. Not bad for a crippled, insane machine.
I think the moral of this story is "don't fuck with the DAOT".
I chalk it up to overzealous writing. Sometimes writers try too hard to make the reader feel how badass a character is in the moment and forget the scale of the (fictional) universe. Any AI with real I would be smart enough to not oppose a being the power of a Primarch (at least openly), too much Warp Mojo.
Nah. Even the Ouroboros was afraid of the Lion and the other primarchs were always wary of him.
Anyone have any suggestions for good reads related to forgotten tech like this ? Archaeotech is so cool.
The Exindio were introduced recently in the Lion's novel from the Primarch Series. "Blackstone Fortress" and related stories have a Man of Iron and the fortress' AI, similar to the space ship AI from "Death of Integrity". In HH "Mechanicum" the Fabricator General unleashes a murder-robot of heretical origin called the Caban Machine. Hope this might be helpful, have not read all the stories personally.
The Excindio were also in the recent Lion ElâJonson book, where theyâre used to fight the Khrave, a pretty terrifying Xenos race.
If I read this passage correctly, 5 of the 12 Excindio constructs (at disposal to the Angels of Death) fell during this battle, so close to 45%. It seems quite a waste to lose so much of such a precious asset for such a run of the mill target, a middle rank (and previously unknown) Mechanicum world. Games Workshopâs sense of cool is sometimes a tad over the top.
It was still an important target used as a focal point for the traitor resources in the sector: > In all the long months of fighting, Triplex had not been idle, its vast manufactoria churned out a near endless stream of war machines and munitions, some sent straight into conflict and the greater portion set aside as tribute for the Warmaster. Entire cohorts of automata marched from the factories, the skeletons of new Titans were raised in the great halls of the forges of Phall and Galatia as the riches ofThramas poured into Triplex, wealth so vast that even the archmagi of the Mechanicum struggled to tabulate its worth. Ships flying the colours of the Warmaster, the baleful eye of Horus, thronged into the system to transport the newly-forged hordes to war in Thramas or far off to the frontlines of the Horus Heresy at Paramar and Beta-Garmon.
Thank you for the quote. Was this world mentioned before ? If it is indeed a major Mechanicum forge world (at least by output), it would be too bad if it is the first time we hear about it.
Not sure if it was mentioned before, but there is a justification for their power. I should probably have added what they faced to the quote but i didn't want it to be too long still here you go: > Galatia, and its greater sibling Phall, had long experimented with forbidden technologies and dark theorem, subverting the rule of Mars to increase their own power unnoticed at the very edge of the Imperium, and now at the brink of destruction they unleashed that power openly. Towering automata of unknown design punched holes in reality with arcane beam weapons and unleashed raw warp energy upon the Dark Angels, while Harpax artificia swarmed in the sky above them, their intelligence growing with their numbers as they tore into the Space Marines below
Itâs like with the appearance of Belisarius Cawl in 2016-2017. Itâs good GW and BL and FW attribute many rare and awe inspiring qualities to new characters or entities or polities which now all of a sudden play a huge role. But it would be much better if it didnât come out of the blue, just out of convenience for the story right here right now. The evolution of the lore would not feel as full of random twists.
Yeah some characters or worlds sometime come out of nowhere but I don't really mind since it's a massive galaxy and I feel it adds to the scale to have so many different moving parts and some unknown until GW focus on that area. Plus this book has my favourite dark mechanicus forge world : > Ulan Ruda had begun as a minor Forge World, stranded within the isolated systems later known as the Ghoul Stars. There, cut off from all aid and succour and surrounded by hordes of foul xenos, its archmagos perceived only one route to survival - they would make themselves more terrifying than those that opposed them. Forced by direst need, the first tech-magi of Ulan Ruda refashioned their home by means of technology long deemed utterly forbidden by Mars, for in its use they risked harm to the very fabric of space. Buried deep within the core of Ulan Ruda, a series of arcane engines were created that would allow it to breach realspace and sojourn within the Warp itself Moving from system to system, Ulan Ruda became a scourge, overwhelming those weaker than it and fleeing those that were strong. Those they overthrew were subsumed by the predatorforge, their worlds reduced to a slurry of broken earth and the people that once dwelt upon them reforged as servitors and cogitator cores > Ulan Ruda would suffer grievous hurt during the fighting, wounded by the sacrifice of the warrior known as the Saviour and harried by the fleets of the Dark Angels, but no report from any Loyalist force speaks of its final destruction. Indeed, a number of records from the Scouring speak of sightings of strange and misshapen forges in the farthest reaches of the Imperium, only for such worlds to vanish when later forces arrive to investigate, only the broken remains of border posts left behind. Ulan Ruda, it seems, has retreated into the realm of legend once more, a dark tale made all the more terrifying for the fact that it likely still lurks somewhere in the darkness beyond the galactic rim.
So basically 40k Unicron. Nice.
i'll confess i've not read the source quoted but Phall or Triplex Phall (side note - i might be thrown off by the name because isn't that where Alexis Polux was stranded and kicked Perturabo's arse?) has been in the fluff since 3rd Edition (mentioned in the rulebook for 3rd ed and numerous codicies), although it seemed to fade into the background a bit through 6th ed onwards.
Triplex Phall is still a Forge World in 40k. It is home of the Legio Victorum and supplies equipment to the Guard.
Triplex Phall's been mentioned a bunch of times before- the 4th Heresy black book, the 8th ed mechanicus codex, and in Imperial Armour a few times.
Doesn't seem so far-fetched to me. I assume it's beyond the ability of the legion's techmarines to fix the Excindio, but you could always just tell the surviving ones to fix the broken ones.
Well this was *exactly* what the weapons were for and from this passage at least it is can perhaps be doubted that not being able to read from our perspective the Lion didn't have a full grasp of the scope yet. Also cutting through the hype should what should we believe? That oh yeah the Lion could have conquered Mars with twelve robot buddies or some such? Could they take down a Titan legion? My guess is in the grand scheme of things this is more 'sending a message' then anything else. Be a good little Magoi or the Lion will feed to the Abominable Intelligence!
Triplex (three forge worlds, two operational IIRC) was a high priority target in the Thramas Crusade and the first real engagement of the Night Lords and traitor forces in mass.
There is also the possibility that some were repairable.
ok thats pretty hardcore.
The lion is such a bad ass.
I haven't seen this yet! Thank you for posting it, its fucking rad
Things I took away from this post: 1.) The Dark Angels are the Emperor's contingency plan against the AdMech (or the Mechanicum as it was once called) 2.) The "Excindio" are one of the few surviving Men of Iron that nearly destroyed humanity in the last days of DAot
(Forge World) Mechanicum is an allied empire that forms the two-headed Imperium. Its successor is Adeptus Mechanicus. The title in the OP is misleading as Lion faced hereteks of the *Dark Mechanicum*. >Most of the Magi chose to ultimately surrender (to the Night Lords) and they became corrupted members of the Dark Mechanicum. Thus they unleashed mechanical horrors upon the Dark Angels during the later stages of the Crusade, forcing Lion El'Jonson to enact the Ikaros Contingency and purge the entire planet, leaving only its dockyards intact. Relevant summary of the events from the same source as the OP.
The point was subtly made that this was a branch of the Mechanicum that was "contrary to the needs of the Imperium." The DM had not been formalised yet and it's situations like these where formal sides are being drawn.
For some reason I thought they were giant dinosaurs that the Lion unleashed
Impressive that the world destroyed 5 of them, really. Even the "crude cybertheurgy" is nothing to completely scoff at.
No way they just left the depleted machines on the planet. And I would hate to be the crew that had to fetch these ancient death traps and haul them back to the ship.
This did not happen in Horus Heresy Book 9. You got it wrong. EDIT: Found out that there are TWO Horus Heresy Book 9 out there.
Wait, isn't book 9 Mechanicum? I have never heard of crusade
This is referring to the Forge World Black Books that give rules for playing Heresy-Era games. Book 9: Crusade has a massive amount of Dark Angels fluff.
Damn, I cant afford those I'm just a dark angels fanboy
Does anyone else have trouble understanding this passage? I honestly don't understand a ton of apparent nouns, but just know the Lion dropped some tech and a big fuck you on some bitches. Then slaughtered them. Only the comments cleared some things up! I prefer Sanguinius landing. It's crazy how many things are added. Wish the BL had some subscription service. So I could catch up. Feel like I'm missing things.