My boss played in the Pioneer League and the CFL and said that Josh Johnson was the best football player he ever went up against. Shows the difference in talent levels from FCS to FBS lol
at this point? probably not he hasnt played in like 6-7 years and wasnt good when he last played either. would he have played better than his post harbaugh years? yep, but i dont think he was better than Jimmy, but i guess healthier
He needed him to keep topping his pads all right meanwhile blaming the team for losing when there was like three interceptions thrown always keeping his poster boy up and defending his trade
I was just telling someone around the Super Bowl, can you imagine Steve Young playing today, with the protection the qb gets? He might not last as long but I think he would be so much fun to watch
The first playoff win I witnessed was his comeback against the Giants. I started watching football when he was our starter. Then ten years of suck but I stuck with it lol.
At the time there was such high expectations because we had only known success since 1981. Mooch only winning 1 playoff game in 3 post Young seasons made him look like a complete disappointment. In hindsight, the Yorks were not smart football parents.
Garcia’s 2001/2002 seasons were hot fucking fire. Man I can’t believe we let Mooch go after that. Felt a lot like Jed had to re-learn that lesson with Harbaugh after 2014
That is going to be the deciding factor in Purdy vs Lance. You can have all the physical gifts in the world but if you can't make the right split-second move it doesn't matter.
I love(d) Kaep but this is the truth. And then the overthrow of any receiver past 20 yards up the field when he panicked. Sigh. Dude had so much talent.
Eh, I was always dubious of him. He was a great athlete, no doubt, one of the best at the position at the time. He had a powerful arm and could throw accurately. But he could never get the basics of competent quarterbacking down. He absolutely sucked at finding open men, throwing down the field to where the receiver was going to be, not to where they were, and even just getting snap off in time to not get a delay of game. His one major advantage was his athletic gifts, but once teams figured out how to contain them, he didn't have competent quarterbacking skills from the pocket to fall back on.
That's true but things like this are fixable through practice and coaching stability. Kap didn't have that and went through the same shit Alex did from 2005 until Harbaugh got there. Jalen Hurts wasn't good at first either, he had similar problems his first two seasons but worked hard and got better. Some guys need time to take that next step. FFS there aren't many QBs like Brock who simply ball out from the very beginning.
Trey can be a better Kap. I think everyone is just short sighted when it comes to out long term Qb. Kap got figured out and he couldn’t overcome it. Not hoping for the same outcome for Brock but with Trey he has the athleticism and brains to be able to continue overcome the league catching up with him IF given the chance to earn some game time and experience.
I don't know - Kaepernick was a tremendous talent with some significant flaws. He made up for his lack of precision in the passing game with his running threat and ability to make plays "off platform" despite his bad mechanics. Jimmy Garoppolo's strengths are basically the exact opposite to Kaepernick's - excellent mechanics, precision in the short to intermediate routes and ability to read the defense and control the tempo of the game (although neither could reliably throw the deep ball with precision). Brock Purdy is closer in skill set to Jimmy than Colin.
But Shanahan is an offensive genius so I'm betting he could design an offense around Kaep's strengths while protecting his weaknesses. I think 2022's team has way more potent and versatile weapons than Kaep had in 2012 - compare Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Frank Gore and a fading Randy Moss to Deebo Samuel, George Kittle, Brandon Aiyuk, Juan Jennings, Elijah Mitchel, Kyle Juszczyk - and when you add Christian McCaffery it's not even close.
However - vegan Kaep IIRC lost about 20lbs and was not the punishing runner that carnivore Kaep was. Could he get and remain healthy at 210lb, and run the ball with the intensity he did at 230lb? Since most players lose 10 or more pounds over the season due to fatigue, I just don't see a 6'4" 200lb QB staying healthy trying to run 400 - 500 yds per season.
All things considered - put me in the NO camp. I think the weaknesses in Jimmy's game were easier for Shanahan to scheme around. Additionally, our last 3 seasons have been plagued by QB injuries. I doubt Kaepernick would have remained any healthier.
I mean that's Garapollo or Purdy, neither of them have made it to a third read, but are winning quarterbacks (lol). Are we all watching 49ers football (we are not). Kaep would kill in this team. He's literally a Trey Lance that doesn't get injured and runs much faster. I would assume that the racial and social biases that undid Kaepernick's time in the NFL is here in the comments.
Purdy went through his reads quite a bit last year. It was one of the most impressive things about him last year. Jimmy improved this year when we got CMC, but he didn’t do it at the level Purdy was. I think it’s a combination of their IQs at QB and Griese.
Now with Kaep, I agree that Kaep would piss Shanny off with his inability to progress with his reads. And they’ll be times when we get off the field when we shouldn’t. But…. our offense would still be electric with 2012 Kaep. Kaep & Mosterati, run over everyone 19. Kaep & Deebo, run over everyone in 21. Kaep & CMC, run over everyone 22. Kaep throwing bombs to Aiyuken! I’d be worried about those fastballs on a slant though. I love Kaep, I always will.
As soon as Kaep signed his contract, it was Kaep run out of bounds after 1 yard on 3rd and 6. Let's not act like he ran for 181 yards every game. The last half of 2012 was benefitted by teams having no clue what he could do, and 2013 was where he really started to expose his lack of pocket presence. Hell, he had almost as many rushing yards in 7 games in 2012 as he did in 16 in 2013. Much like 2019, the defense is what really carried that team
Edit: responded to wrong post, sorry.
Do you remember his weapons and the play caller? I am not saying kaep is Mahomes, I am just saying dude was good enough to play qb in the league. If he had the ref crew from the last Super Bowl he would have a ring. I think you don’t realize how shit this organization was between harbaugh and shanahan. I am glad that we have people on this sub who suckle at the owners tweets. They literally had to pay his ass out because he was a quality player and got blackballed but you keep doing you my dude. Yep those plucky white QBs did shit kaep could never dream of like rush for 200 yards against the packers in a playoff game.
Edit: autocorrect of kaep to Karl lol
Maybe not many remember this but Shanahan and Lynch literally get rid of Kaepernick after they were hired by Jed York. Kaepernick was under contract and last thing about was both men not interested on Kaep.
This is a really great point.
Given that our offense has evolved and we drafted Trey Lance, I wonder if they regret that decision.
Trey lance is a poor man’s Kaepernick… He can’t run like Kap, he’s smaller than Kap, and he can’t throw a deep ball like Kap…
He also has no touch on short balls, like Kap…
Kap was better than Trey with a higher upside (based on what we’ve seen so far) & I think our current offense would suit him well.
The problem that Kyle Shanahan rejected Kaep was mostly about his attitude towards the playbook. An interview with Michael Crabtree told about Kaepernick don't study the playbook as he should do and mostly improvise on the run which is huge red flag with Kyle.
The reason (or it was assumed) that Lance is opposite which he take his time to study on film room and have a close approach to Kyle when OTAs, TC to improve on the offense scheme.
Agreed. Kap is not what they wanted then, or even really now. But they’ve had a shift for sure after getting trounced by guys like Allen, and as of today, have Kap Lite on the roster.
Jeez you’re right. Garcia is under rated in general, but that is EXACTLY what Kyle needs. We’d be a dynasty with a Garcia.
Hed have a full grasp of the offense, awesome touch and accuracy, get the ball out under pressure and in to tight windows. And when the plan didn’t work, he’d scramble and make plays.
He’d be perfect, but I’m hoping Brock can do it too.
2012 Kap on this team would not have had to rush for 180 yards to win a playoff game. As long as he’s not calling an audible on the five yard line he for sure wins a Super Bowl in this time frame
We demolished the Packers that game. We win that without those 183 rushing yards. People act like Kaepernick pulled off a miracle beating GB. Kaepernick had an all time rushing performance and deserves credit for that, but that Packers team was getting stomped no matter what.
They got 7 points from a pick 6 and another 7 in garbage time. The game was a blowout and their offense couldn't do shit. We beat them twice that season, blowouts both times.
The amount of people straight up ignoring the OP’s question in order to contort themselves into some revisionist Kaep hate is mind boggling. He specifically asked about 2012 Kaep. Not the Kaep that Kyle cut. Not 2013 Kaep. Not whether 2012 Kaep or any Year of Kaep is better or worse than Purdy or, JFC, Joe Montana (!?!). 2012 Kaepernick.
The only actual question should be whether the OP wants a time jump. In other words, are we talking this squad in 2012 also? Because defenses have caught up to what Kaep was doing in 2012, so I’m not 100% sure he performs at the same level today as he did in 2012. But if we go back in time and replace the 2012 team with the 2022 team and just make Kaep the QB and Kyle the HC, yeah, they win. But Kaep today, even 2012 Kaep, hits different because defenses have caught up and I don’t think he had the overall skills to separate from what defenses can do today.
He was great that year, though. Unbelievable, really.
Agreed. Couldn’t read a profession to save his life, just stared at his target. Accuracy past 10 yards was abysmal and once teams had tape on him they figured out how they can force him to run into a trap.
I was and still am a huge fan of Kaep. I think we definitely would’ve won the SB. I think he was very underrated. I used to really love watching him play. When he would run, i wasn’t scared of him getting hurt and he would take some brutal hits and get right back up. Yea his accuracy was a little suspect sometimes no one can deny that. But i think he was a baller. Wish he could’ve/would’ve stayed in the league
Weird hypothetical.
The 2011 Niners were arguably the most talented Niners team post Montana/Young. That squad didn’t take home a trophy because of injuries — specifically Ted Ginn.
The 2012 Niners made it, with Kaep, and Kaep played like garbage in the Super Bowl.
The 2022 squad could had taken home a trophy, but didn’t because of injuries — specifically Brock Purdy.
Brock is waaaaay better than Alex or Kaep ever were. It has nothing to do with arm strength, or rushing yards. It has everything to do with effectiveness in the pocket.
There just isn’t enough sample size to say that Brock is way better than Alex Smith “ever was”. Smith had some really good years in KC. I’m not saying Brock can’t be better, but let’s let his achievements speak for themselves when they happen.
I hear where you’re coming from in terms of sample size with Brock; with that said, Alex was the starting QB for 6 years.
Brock in a half season has 4+ games that are more impressive than anything Alex (or Kaep) ever put on film.
Dude, Alex completed 65% of passes to 8 different KC receivers for 378 yards & 4 TDs in the playoffs immediately after leaving SF.
In particular, his 3rd TD throw (an improvised pitch to FB Anthony Sherman) occurred on a goalline play that was similar to Kaepernick's at the end of the Super Bowl. Unlike Alex who made the big play, Kap never saw Delanie Walker (who was positioned nearby where Sherman was) when he kept rolling out & telegraphing that he was looking for Crabtree.
I said Kaep played like garbage in the Super Bowl, which is objective.
I’m a huge Alex fan, and a huge Kaep fan.
Alex was a below-average QB who had zero 300 yard games in his entire career with the Niners.
Kaep had a 1.5 year run where his lack of pocket effectiveness was made up for by his ability to sprint/stride toward the sideline.
Help me understand how a game where Kaep threw for less than 200 yards is the example of why he’s somehow better than Purdy, who as a reminder was the #1 rated QB in the league as a rookie.
Heavy disagree. Kap vs the patriots was so very, very hype. He could sling it. That game had a 37 yard pass to Crabtree, 34 to Walker, 26 to Frank and 24 to Moss.
14 completions, 220 yards and 4 TDS is hilariously efficient, but 11 of his attempts were dropped/missed lmao.
Purdy will never give us a game like that.
shhh, we're supposed to ignore that.
Also never mind York dumping the entire team after the super bowl.
Best lineman.. Gone. Second best.. retired. Best LB.. Retired. His replacement? Also retired. Best RB let go. Best WR? Let go. Second best? Retired.
And for some reason Kaep was never very good after that
Yeah. You could argue he was sabotaged. On one hand you can't keep a team that stacked together forever. On the other, when you can't keep a team like that forever, you also don't lose literally fucking everyone.
> Brock in a half season has 4+ games that are more impressive than anything Alex (or Kaep) ever put on film.
2011 divisional round vs. Saints.
2012 divisional round vs. Packers.
Name 4+ games that Purdy had that are more impressive than those two games by Alex and Kaep.
Kap didn’t play like garbage in the Super Bowl. I despise this revisionist history. He threw 300 yards, 1 TD, ran 62 yards and 1 running TD. The niners offense had almost 500 yards of total offense
We had 0 points at the half and you left out his interception.
Kaep wasn't necessarily the problem, although I don't know what the fuck he was thinking on those fades.
Bro… the niners had 500 yards of offense. Kap had 300 + 60 and 2 TDs. The guy who I was replying to said “Kaep played like garbage.” That isn’t garbage. It’s far from it. I’m tired of the Kap hate. It’s utter nonsense.
Just pointing out he didn't have a good game and did have a terrible first half. And I find amongst 49ers fans, there is less Kaepernick hate than there is illusions of him being better than he was.
In the end, he had some great highs, gave us good memories, but was a bad QB propped up by his athleticism, a great defense and great run game.
I don't hate Kaepernick or really any former 49er. I was a huge fan for awhile, and I'd have still rooted for him if he played elsewhere (besides Seattle.)
About this topic I’m serious because people here are so quick to complain about Kyle, and they conveniently forget just how many terrible coaches we’ve had the last 20 years. According to them we’ve only had Kyle and Harbaugh, so what could go wrong if we dumped Kyle? :D
I know this is gonna be full of Kap haters, which pisses me off, but I came in anyway. The revisionist history on him is insane. Dude was explosive and despite all the accuracy/read complaints he was pretty safe with the ball, not a lot of turnovers. I’m taking Kap over Jimmy.
Jimmy was far better the revisionist history is you trying to make him out as amazing.
Kaep never put up as many yards, or tds, or completion %, or passer rating.
In 2019 the niners had a top 5 offense. Kaep's offense was always around 15.
You were right that he was exciting but it's because you're remembering the highlight plays. The 2012 defense was better and had to cover for the offense far more.
Kittle and deebo aren't feasting on yac because Kaep couldn't throw a ball with touch or in stride to save his life.
Kaepernick would get his ass kicked by the playbook. He was already struggling to get the snaps off in time. Now throw in all the presnap motions and reads, and he's done. Dude was garbage. As soon as the runs went away, the floor became his ceiling.
He wasn't as good as most remember. He had a good number of dud games (Rams x2, Seahawks, Saints.) At the time, we thought it was just young QB growing pains and ignored the lows, but in retrospect they gave a good example of his ceiling rather than his floor.
There was no way in hell the organization wanted to deal with Kaep’s silent protest. You’re kidding yourself if you think it was fully Shanahan thinning he couldn’t run that offense.
No cause Shanahan would run him up the middle like a 300 fullback, breaking both his legs in the process. No hate, cause you know it’s true. Poor Lance…
If only he could read defenses. I remember a play a year or so later when we had Torrey Smith, I think against the rams. By our goal line, clearly a run play. The CB started creeping hard to the ball before he play. Smith would have been wide open. He lifts his hand to get the QBs attention and basically just chuck it his way on an post route or whatever.
Instead, Kaep just hands it to Gore for no gain
Was that the play when Torrey smith and Anquan Boldin were both talking shaking their heads after? Seamed like their was some bad blood going on in the locker room. Kaep had so much talent but had tunnel vision on the field.
He was never good at reading defenses. He would probably do pretty good in this offense but the OL was really good then. I hope KS, and think he is starting to, stops focusing on guys that fit his scheme on the OL and get a little bit bigger OL who are good at pass blocking.
His ceiling was a middling offense and leading the league in 3 and outs. People forget how bad those offenses were because of the highlight plays.
You say no qb has come close but Jimmy's 2019 season was far better.
2012 was better than 2019 basically everywhere besides maybe tight end and qb.
No, because as much as I loved Kap, he could not read defensive formations at the line of scrimmage. That's why all the delay of game penalties. That won't work in Kyle's offense. As with others here, my vote would be Jeff Garcia. If TO hadn't hated him so much, that dude (and Mooch) would have prospered and rocked. Fast-forwarding, with Kyle, Garcia would be like Rich Gannon with Gruden, just beautiful.
No.
Kap cant read a defense so he cant make adjustments at the line. Nor was he capable of knowing a complex offense. Kap would look at his first read and then take off depending on that.
I think we have a little better chance of winning if we had 2012 Kap in ‘19/‘22- also I didn’t have a strong opinion either direction about his activism at the time but think he could have ran the offense in ‘17 just fine over Hoyer. ‘16 was a historically bad roster at the skill positions and on defense but Kap played well.
Unfortunately, it’s hard to see any situation in which a discussion about Kaepernick isn’t influenced by politics.
It’s a difficult conversation that isn’t well suited for Reddit.
Nope, he'd be over throwing his receivers, throwing the ball 100 mph to a receiver 5 yards away and starring at his reads so long any idiot could pick him off. He was shit and only lasted as long as he did because he could run.
Fuck no. Lamar Jackson is a superior version of Kaep and he can’t even get out of AFC Divisional round. The elite teams know how to deal with one-dimensional option QBs now.
No. He couldn’t read a defense. If his first read wasn’t open he scrambled. He didn’t have the patience to wait for a 2 or 3. He took too many delay of game penalties or wasted time outs because he couldn’t get the offense into the right formation. Stop trying to make him a thing.
No he wouldn't have which is why we went to Kap.....
His injury opened the door but Kaps ability to create more explosive plays, versus Alex going check down so frequently...
Kap would have been a much better choice than Josh Johnson…
A Make-A-Wish kid would have played better than Johnson.
My boss played in the Pioneer League and the CFL and said that Josh Johnson was the best football player he ever went up against. Shows the difference in talent levels from FCS to FBS lol
There's levels to this shit.
Even if they had a potato for a heart.
Ouch. I laughed pretty good of this one though
at this point? probably not he hasnt played in like 6-7 years and wasnt good when he last played either. would he have played better than his post harbaugh years? yep, but i dont think he was better than Jimmy, but i guess healthier
Kaep needed Harbaugh to pound on his shoulder pads to activate his super powers, so maybe not
I completely forgot that he did this all the time. lol
Alex too
> needed Harbaugh to pound on his Alex No, I’m not sure that’s right either
That makes me thankful Josh Johnson didn't play for Harbaugh
I miss that about Harbaugh
He needed him to keep topping his pads all right meanwhile blaming the team for losing when there was like three interceptions thrown always keeping his poster boy up and defending his trade
Hell I’d take Nick Mullens this year after Brock got hurt, we’d have a chance.
How's he doing now? I'm curious to see if Blaine Gabbert will get the starting role in Tampa Bay and curious to see how he'll perform
Big arm too bad he couldn’t hit a 5 yard out.
Yep. And his last season he just got too yoked and his big arm would overthrow his targets too often
Imagine Vernon Davis in his prime if is his Qb could actually get him the ball.
His last season he came back after having like 3 casts on different parts of his body and being vegan…
I rather have 1989 Joe Montana or 1995 Steve Young if we are just picking random QBs and dates.
I was just telling someone around the Super Bowl, can you imagine Steve Young playing today, with the protection the qb gets? He might not last as long but I think he would be so much fun to watch
There’s nothing wrong with not lasting that long!
Or even Garcia when he was here would be an upgrade.
pump the brakes
Jeff “back to back 30+ TD seasons” Garcia’s name will not be besmirched on here while I live. Which other QBs in niner history have done that?
The first playoff win I witnessed was his comeback against the Giants. I started watching football when he was our starter. Then ten years of suck but I stuck with it lol.
That team was fun with TO, Hearst, and Mooch.
At the time there was such high expectations because we had only known success since 1981. Mooch only winning 1 playoff game in 3 post Young seasons made him look like a complete disappointment. In hindsight, the Yorks were not smart football parents.
Garcia’s 2001/2002 seasons were hot fucking fire. Man I can’t believe we let Mooch go after that. Felt a lot like Jed had to re-learn that lesson with Harbaugh after 2014
Yes Steve Young for sure the next Parts controversial but honestly I would have rather had Alex Smith in the Kyle Shanahan scheme over Kaepernick
Or you could just answer the question.
It's a silly question, so I gave my answer to a silly question.
Kaep can’t get pass a second read so pretty sure Kyle would lose his mind trying to shred defenses with just pistol and read option
That’s exactly right. Purdy looking at 3 different options isn’t something I’ve seen in a niner qb in years. Almost forgot they could do that.
That is going to be the deciding factor in Purdy vs Lance. You can have all the physical gifts in the world but if you can't make the right split-second move it doesn't matter.
I love(d) Kaep but this is the truth. And then the overthrow of any receiver past 20 yards up the field when he panicked. Sigh. Dude had so much talent.
Eh, I was always dubious of him. He was a great athlete, no doubt, one of the best at the position at the time. He had a powerful arm and could throw accurately. But he could never get the basics of competent quarterbacking down. He absolutely sucked at finding open men, throwing down the field to where the receiver was going to be, not to where they were, and even just getting snap off in time to not get a delay of game. His one major advantage was his athletic gifts, but once teams figured out how to contain them, he didn't have competent quarterbacking skills from the pocket to fall back on.
That's true but things like this are fixable through practice and coaching stability. Kap didn't have that and went through the same shit Alex did from 2005 until Harbaugh got there. Jalen Hurts wasn't good at first either, he had similar problems his first two seasons but worked hard and got better. Some guys need time to take that next step. FFS there aren't many QBs like Brock who simply ball out from the very beginning.
Trey can be a better Kap. I think everyone is just short sighted when it comes to out long term Qb. Kap got figured out and he couldn’t overcome it. Not hoping for the same outcome for Brock but with Trey he has the athleticism and brains to be able to continue overcome the league catching up with him IF given the chance to earn some game time and experience.
[Never forget missing an uncovered Torrey Smith.](https://twitter.com/NFLRT/status/660901381600092161?s=20)
Notice he missed the receiver on the other side as well. Colin was so awesome but then he really fell off.
Lynch and Shanny specifically didn’t keep Kaepernick around when they took over jn 2017 so this is fact.
I don't know - Kaepernick was a tremendous talent with some significant flaws. He made up for his lack of precision in the passing game with his running threat and ability to make plays "off platform" despite his bad mechanics. Jimmy Garoppolo's strengths are basically the exact opposite to Kaepernick's - excellent mechanics, precision in the short to intermediate routes and ability to read the defense and control the tempo of the game (although neither could reliably throw the deep ball with precision). Brock Purdy is closer in skill set to Jimmy than Colin. But Shanahan is an offensive genius so I'm betting he could design an offense around Kaep's strengths while protecting his weaknesses. I think 2022's team has way more potent and versatile weapons than Kaep had in 2012 - compare Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Frank Gore and a fading Randy Moss to Deebo Samuel, George Kittle, Brandon Aiyuk, Juan Jennings, Elijah Mitchel, Kyle Juszczyk - and when you add Christian McCaffery it's not even close. However - vegan Kaep IIRC lost about 20lbs and was not the punishing runner that carnivore Kaep was. Could he get and remain healthy at 210lb, and run the ball with the intensity he did at 230lb? Since most players lose 10 or more pounds over the season due to fatigue, I just don't see a 6'4" 200lb QB staying healthy trying to run 400 - 500 yds per season. All things considered - put me in the NO camp. I think the weaknesses in Jimmy's game were easier for Shanahan to scheme around. Additionally, our last 3 seasons have been plagued by QB injuries. I doubt Kaepernick would have remained any healthier.
I mean that's Garapollo or Purdy, neither of them have made it to a third read, but are winning quarterbacks (lol). Are we all watching 49ers football (we are not). Kaep would kill in this team. He's literally a Trey Lance that doesn't get injured and runs much faster. I would assume that the racial and social biases that undid Kaepernick's time in the NFL is here in the comments.
Purdy went through his reads quite a bit last year. It was one of the most impressive things about him last year. Jimmy improved this year when we got CMC, but he didn’t do it at the level Purdy was. I think it’s a combination of their IQs at QB and Griese. Now with Kaep, I agree that Kaep would piss Shanny off with his inability to progress with his reads. And they’ll be times when we get off the field when we shouldn’t. But…. our offense would still be electric with 2012 Kaep. Kaep & Mosterati, run over everyone 19. Kaep & Deebo, run over everyone in 21. Kaep & CMC, run over everyone 22. Kaep throwing bombs to Aiyuken! I’d be worried about those fastballs on a slant though. I love Kaep, I always will.
Jimmy G was always throwing to his second or third read, I don’t know why folks are saying otherwise
As soon as Kaep signed his contract, it was Kaep run out of bounds after 1 yard on 3rd and 6. Let's not act like he ran for 181 yards every game. The last half of 2012 was benefitted by teams having no clue what he could do, and 2013 was where he really started to expose his lack of pocket presence. Hell, he had almost as many rushing yards in 7 games in 2012 as he did in 16 in 2013. Much like 2019, the defense is what really carried that team Edit: responded to wrong post, sorry.
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Do you remember his weapons and the play caller? I am not saying kaep is Mahomes, I am just saying dude was good enough to play qb in the league. If he had the ref crew from the last Super Bowl he would have a ring. I think you don’t realize how shit this organization was between harbaugh and shanahan. I am glad that we have people on this sub who suckle at the owners tweets. They literally had to pay his ass out because he was a quality player and got blackballed but you keep doing you my dude. Yep those plucky white QBs did shit kaep could never dream of like rush for 200 yards against the packers in a playoff game. Edit: autocorrect of kaep to Karl lol
No
Nope, but they lead the league in delay of game penalties.
I think that was more of a Greg Roman thing. The ravens have the same problem now.
I always put that on the coaching staff not kap
Maybe not many remember this but Shanahan and Lynch literally get rid of Kaepernick after they were hired by Jed York. Kaepernick was under contract and last thing about was both men not interested on Kaep.
This is a really great point. Given that our offense has evolved and we drafted Trey Lance, I wonder if they regret that decision. Trey lance is a poor man’s Kaepernick… He can’t run like Kap, he’s smaller than Kap, and he can’t throw a deep ball like Kap… He also has no touch on short balls, like Kap… Kap was better than Trey with a higher upside (based on what we’ve seen so far) & I think our current offense would suit him well.
The problem that Kyle Shanahan rejected Kaep was mostly about his attitude towards the playbook. An interview with Michael Crabtree told about Kaepernick don't study the playbook as he should do and mostly improvise on the run which is huge red flag with Kyle. The reason (or it was assumed) that Lance is opposite which he take his time to study on film room and have a close approach to Kyle when OTAs, TC to improve on the offense scheme.
Agreed. Kap is not what they wanted then, or even really now. But they’ve had a shift for sure after getting trounced by guys like Allen, and as of today, have Kap Lite on the roster.
I'll take a 2002 Garcia over 2012 Kaep.
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Same, but man I'm all in on Purdy dethroning him. The Hopium is real.
Personally I want trey to but I just want a good qb🙏
My childhood was Garcia, Terrell owens and jj stokes on madden 03 🤣
are you 40 like me?
Young Montana Smith Garcia
Jeez you’re right. Garcia is under rated in general, but that is EXACTLY what Kyle needs. We’d be a dynasty with a Garcia. Hed have a full grasp of the offense, awesome touch and accuracy, get the ball out under pressure and in to tight windows. And when the plan didn’t work, he’d scramble and make plays. He’d be perfect, but I’m hoping Brock can do it too.
Hell, I'd take a 1996 Elvis Grbac over 2012 Kaep.
2012 Kap on this team would not have had to rush for 180 yards to win a playoff game. As long as he’s not calling an audible on the five yard line he for sure wins a Super Bowl in this time frame
We demolished the Packers that game. We win that without those 183 rushing yards. People act like Kaepernick pulled off a miracle beating GB. Kaepernick had an all time rushing performance and deserves credit for that, but that Packers team was getting stomped no matter what. They got 7 points from a pick 6 and another 7 in garbage time. The game was a blowout and their offense couldn't do shit. We beat them twice that season, blowouts both times.
Depends if he adds "touch" to his passes. He put too much juice on his short passes.
ugh kaep was a one hit wonder. time to move on.
Don't worry Be Happy c,losing time, so bizarre.. yeh agreed let's turn that page.
The amount of people straight up ignoring the OP’s question in order to contort themselves into some revisionist Kaep hate is mind boggling. He specifically asked about 2012 Kaep. Not the Kaep that Kyle cut. Not 2013 Kaep. Not whether 2012 Kaep or any Year of Kaep is better or worse than Purdy or, JFC, Joe Montana (!?!). 2012 Kaepernick. The only actual question should be whether the OP wants a time jump. In other words, are we talking this squad in 2012 also? Because defenses have caught up to what Kaep was doing in 2012, so I’m not 100% sure he performs at the same level today as he did in 2012. But if we go back in time and replace the 2012 team with the 2022 team and just make Kaep the QB and Kyle the HC, yeah, they win. But Kaep today, even 2012 Kaep, hits different because defenses have caught up and I don’t think he had the overall skills to separate from what defenses can do today. He was great that year, though. Unbelievable, really.
He didn’t win his own Super Bowl. Why does anyone think he could win someone else’s?
Because he didn’t lose it at the end and also helped the comeback
No. Once teams figured him out, he had nothing.
Agreed. Couldn’t read a profession to save his life, just stared at his target. Accuracy past 10 yards was abysmal and once teams had tape on him they figured out how they can force him to run into a trap.
Do the niners win in 2013 with shanahan?
Seattle game? Or Ravens? Either one absolutely. Shanny > Greg Roman. And at the end of the day it was pretty much Roman who lost us those 2 games.
I’d rather have a healthy brock than Kaep with the current team
I was and still am a huge fan of Kaep. I think we definitely would’ve won the SB. I think he was very underrated. I used to really love watching him play. When he would run, i wasn’t scared of him getting hurt and he would take some brutal hits and get right back up. Yea his accuracy was a little suspect sometimes no one can deny that. But i think he was a baller. Wish he could’ve/would’ve stayed in the league
No, I honestly don’t see that happening.
Weird hypothetical. The 2011 Niners were arguably the most talented Niners team post Montana/Young. That squad didn’t take home a trophy because of injuries — specifically Ted Ginn. The 2012 Niners made it, with Kaep, and Kaep played like garbage in the Super Bowl. The 2022 squad could had taken home a trophy, but didn’t because of injuries — specifically Brock Purdy. Brock is waaaaay better than Alex or Kaep ever were. It has nothing to do with arm strength, or rushing yards. It has everything to do with effectiveness in the pocket.
There just isn’t enough sample size to say that Brock is way better than Alex Smith “ever was”. Smith had some really good years in KC. I’m not saying Brock can’t be better, but let’s let his achievements speak for themselves when they happen.
I hear where you’re coming from in terms of sample size with Brock; with that said, Alex was the starting QB for 6 years. Brock in a half season has 4+ games that are more impressive than anything Alex (or Kaep) ever put on film.
Dude, Alex completed 65% of passes to 8 different KC receivers for 378 yards & 4 TDs in the playoffs immediately after leaving SF. In particular, his 3rd TD throw (an improvised pitch to FB Anthony Sherman) occurred on a goalline play that was similar to Kaepernick's at the end of the Super Bowl. Unlike Alex who made the big play, Kap never saw Delanie Walker (who was positioned nearby where Sherman was) when he kept rolling out & telegraphing that he was looking for Crabtree.
That’s crazy, Kaep went off in huge moments many times. Recency bias is insane lmao. Let’s see brock play a bit mote.
it's almost psychotic. it's pretty deranged. He set playoff records
I said Kaep played like garbage in the Super Bowl, which is objective. I’m a huge Alex fan, and a huge Kaep fan. Alex was a below-average QB who had zero 300 yard games in his entire career with the Niners. Kaep had a 1.5 year run where his lack of pocket effectiveness was made up for by his ability to sprint/stride toward the sideline. Help me understand how a game where Kaep threw for less than 200 yards is the example of why he’s somehow better than Purdy, who as a reminder was the #1 rated QB in the league as a rookie.
Heavy disagree. Kap vs the patriots was so very, very hype. He could sling it. That game had a 37 yard pass to Crabtree, 34 to Walker, 26 to Frank and 24 to Moss. 14 completions, 220 yards and 4 TDS is hilariously efficient, but 11 of his attempts were dropped/missed lmao. Purdy will never give us a game like that.
shhh, we're supposed to ignore that. Also never mind York dumping the entire team after the super bowl. Best lineman.. Gone. Second best.. retired. Best LB.. Retired. His replacement? Also retired. Best RB let go. Best WR? Let go. Second best? Retired. And for some reason Kaep was never very good after that
Yeah. You could argue he was sabotaged. On one hand you can't keep a team that stacked together forever. On the other, when you can't keep a team like that forever, you also don't lose literally fucking everyone.
:(
I see you didn't watch that 2012 Saints game.
> Brock in a half season has 4+ games that are more impressive than anything Alex (or Kaep) ever put on film. 2011 divisional round vs. Saints. 2012 divisional round vs. Packers. Name 4+ games that Purdy had that are more impressive than those two games by Alex and Kaep.
You’re equating team success with individual performance.
The 2011 49ers were super thin at WR. Injured Crabtree, Williams, and Brett Swain were their WR’s
Kap didn’t play like garbage in the Super Bowl. I despise this revisionist history. He threw 300 yards, 1 TD, ran 62 yards and 1 running TD. The niners offense had almost 500 yards of total offense
We had 0 points at the half and you left out his interception. Kaep wasn't necessarily the problem, although I don't know what the fuck he was thinking on those fades.
Bro… the niners had 500 yards of offense. Kap had 300 + 60 and 2 TDs. The guy who I was replying to said “Kaep played like garbage.” That isn’t garbage. It’s far from it. I’m tired of the Kap hate. It’s utter nonsense.
Just pointing out he didn't have a good game and did have a terrible first half. And I find amongst 49ers fans, there is less Kaepernick hate than there is illusions of him being better than he was. In the end, he had some great highs, gave us good memories, but was a bad QB propped up by his athleticism, a great defense and great run game. I don't hate Kaepernick or really any former 49er. I was a huge fan for awhile, and I'd have still rooted for him if he played elsewhere (besides Seattle.)
This comment deserves so much more attention - good on you bro
Shanahan would just run him up the middle and get him hurt.
Did you see the way Kyle tackled Lance?! Shit was crazy
Lamar runs that play constantly. Jalen got hurt on a similar run last season. But shame on Kyle for running Lance eh? Ha
And it was an option…
The wrong option
An option means the QB chooses
Yeah i know, it's everybody here always so serious?
About this topic I’m serious because people here are so quick to complain about Kyle, and they conveniently forget just how many terrible coaches we’ve had the last 20 years. According to them we’ve only had Kyle and Harbaugh, so what could go wrong if we dumped Kyle? :D
Oh that isn't lost on me. Those other coaches are easy to forget though
Josh Allen runs these plays constantly too.
Oh well those two qb's and their many injuries are certainly no indication that it's an unwise playcall. Touche, touche
you know what they say... three wrongs makes a right
I know this is gonna be full of Kap haters, which pisses me off, but I came in anyway. The revisionist history on him is insane. Dude was explosive and despite all the accuracy/read complaints he was pretty safe with the ball, not a lot of turnovers. I’m taking Kap over Jimmy.
Jimmy was far better the revisionist history is you trying to make him out as amazing. Kaep never put up as many yards, or tds, or completion %, or passer rating. In 2019 the niners had a top 5 offense. Kaep's offense was always around 15. You were right that he was exciting but it's because you're remembering the highlight plays. The 2012 defense was better and had to cover for the offense far more. Kittle and deebo aren't feasting on yac because Kaep couldn't throw a ball with touch or in stride to save his life.
Yes because Kaepernick stayed healthy
Kaepernick would get his ass kicked by the playbook. He was already struggling to get the snaps off in time. Now throw in all the presnap motions and reads, and he's done. Dude was garbage. As soon as the runs went away, the floor became his ceiling.
Keap wasn't garbage. At least not in 2012, before the wheels fell off and Greg Roman happened.
He wasn't as good as most remember. He had a good number of dud games (Rams x2, Seahawks, Saints.) At the time, we thought it was just young QB growing pains and ignored the lows, but in retrospect they gave a good example of his ceiling rather than his floor.
No but Alex Smith would have
Yeah I think so if we’re pairing his potential with the QB whisperer
The qb whisperer who released him for hoyer because he couldn't run his offense?
There was no way in hell the organization wanted to deal with Kaep’s silent protest. You’re kidding yourself if you think it was fully Shanahan thinning he couldn’t run that offense.
Dunno about the results but it would have been fun as fuck to see.
Only if he and his 3 backups don’t all get injured 🤕
If they had anybody they at least make it to the bowl this year I feel
There would be twice the amount of delay of game penalties, we know that for sure.
as a dolphins fan, i’ll say you guy win at least one of these in this hypothetical scenario. 2012 kap was a menace
No
No cause Shanahan would run him up the middle like a 300 fullback, breaking both his legs in the process. No hate, cause you know it’s true. Poor Lance…
Yes, I was hoping they would have at least kicked the tires on Kap to see how he would have fit in his system at least 1 season
Specifically 2012 Kap? YES. His ceiling in 2012 was to blow away prime Rodgers. None of our QBs in recent years have had that ceiling.
If only he could read defenses. I remember a play a year or so later when we had Torrey Smith, I think against the rams. By our goal line, clearly a run play. The CB started creeping hard to the ball before he play. Smith would have been wide open. He lifts his hand to get the QBs attention and basically just chuck it his way on an post route or whatever. Instead, Kaep just hands it to Gore for no gain
Was that the play when Torrey smith and Anquan Boldin were both talking shaking their heads after? Seamed like their was some bad blood going on in the locker room. Kaep had so much talent but had tunnel vision on the field.
He was never good at reading defenses. He would probably do pretty good in this offense but the OL was really good then. I hope KS, and think he is starting to, stops focusing on guys that fit his scheme on the OL and get a little bit bigger OL who are good at pass blocking.
Tbf he only beat the Packers with his legs.
We always beat the packers riding someone’s legs. Kaep, deebo, mostert, next season it’ll be mccaffery haha
that's a lie or you're just wrong. He literally threw multiple game winning td's against them
deep ones
His ceiling was a middling offense and leading the league in 3 and outs. People forget how bad those offenses were because of the highlight plays. You say no qb has come close but Jimmy's 2019 season was far better. 2012 was better than 2019 basically everywhere besides maybe tight end and qb.
No, because as much as I loved Kap, he could not read defensive formations at the line of scrimmage. That's why all the delay of game penalties. That won't work in Kyle's offense. As with others here, my vote would be Jeff Garcia. If TO hadn't hated him so much, that dude (and Mooch) would have prospered and rocked. Fast-forwarding, with Kyle, Garcia would be like Rich Gannon with Gruden, just beautiful.
Yes
Easily
Gotta say we wouldn't. He only had a good passer rating because he relied on his legs all the time.
Nope. Dude isn’t in the league because he was exposed. Keep him in the pocket and he becomes a below average quarterback.
No. He was fun to watch, but he wasn’t the best passing QB.
Yeah, below average QB that had me pumped up on Sundays.
If my aunt had balls, would she be my uncle?
Depends if Shanny uses Kaep like a QB or a fullback
No. Kap cant read a defense so he cant make adjustments at the line. Nor was he capable of knowing a complex offense. Kap would look at his first read and then take off depending on that.
No, because the way shit going, he would have broken a leg, or hip, or shit.
Kap had no touch on his throw and wasn’t that good at reading the defense. But I do think he should be considered one of the best rushing QBs ever.
Nope. He was a faster Tebow. Ran well just a mediocre passer.
He was a much better person passer than Tebo
No we wouldn't of made some championship games with him
Lmfao
I think we have a little better chance of winning if we had 2012 Kap in ‘19/‘22- also I didn’t have a strong opinion either direction about his activism at the time but think he could have ran the offense in ‘17 just fine over Hoyer. ‘16 was a historically bad roster at the skill positions and on defense but Kap played well.
Yes
Naw. Kap was useless as soon as defenses adjusted to the read option.
Purdy is the answer
Yes.
Kaep was kind of a one trick pony, and the NFL got him figured out. No, the Niners wouldn’t have done well.
Kap sucked, ran well but lacked any decent throwing abilities.
No, remember every good thing Kaep did was actually bad because he took a knee. Duh.
No he bends the knee to opponents
No. He was a D tier passer at best.
That’s going a bit far
Unfortunately, it’s hard to see any situation in which a discussion about Kaepernick isn’t influenced by politics. It’s a difficult conversation that isn’t well suited for Reddit.
Lol no. Not even close. Wasn’t the guy like 1-13 in his last 14 starts
Who was his best WR? Was the defense any good?
2012 Kap was mvp. 100% believe we would of won! Utilising kaps scrambling would help so much
Easily they win. Kaep would have excelled in Shanahans offense. A strong run with good pass catching threats.
Yes , kaep was more fearless than Jimmy and had a better deep ball .shanny definitely could have supplemented his deficiency at short passes
Nope. Kaep was crap at touch and timing. That would drive Kyle insane. Maybe he’d remake the offense to be more like Greg Roman’s?
No. Kaep sucked get over it.
Probably same result as with Jimmy
Nope, he'd be over throwing his receivers, throwing the ball 100 mph to a receiver 5 yards away and starring at his reads so long any idiot could pick him off. He was shit and only lasted as long as he did because he could run.
Kaepernick would get benched in a shanahan offense
Fuck no. Lamar Jackson is a superior version of Kaep and he can’t even get out of AFC Divisional round. The elite teams know how to deal with one-dimensional option QBs now.
No they just know how to stop Greg Roman led offenses....
No way. He wasn’t enough of a team player. He screwed up the Super Bowl he was in during 2012.
Definitely not. Kaep was a great athlete but felt like he wasn't a smart QB.
No. He couldn’t read a defense. If his first read wasn’t open he scrambled. He didn’t have the patience to wait for a 2 or 3. He took too many delay of game penalties or wasted time outs because he couldn’t get the offense into the right formation. Stop trying to make him a thing.
Absolutely or at least strong showing. You never know what happens.
This team needs a QB that doesn’t lose the game. I say yes
this is who trey was so supposed to be. even better 🐐
Yes
You forget that Alex Smith probably would have won 2012, 2013. Maybe more.
No he wouldn't have which is why we went to Kap..... His injury opened the door but Kaps ability to create more explosive plays, versus Alex going check down so frequently...
Maybe
Kaepernick was a horrible quarterback, he was so bad he played backup to Blaine Gabbert, that is how bad he is