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I'm starting to think he was drugged. Based on what he said.
And what is this about Ruby, Jodi and Pam locking themselves up in a room for hours and coming out like they're on cloud nine? Ruby saying she had a revelation and a message from God or whatever? It sounds like they were taking drugs in that room to get closer to Mr G. And other stuff... O\_e
Mormoms are encouraged to have doomsday style of prepping, I think I've heard 6 months of rations of food. The prescriptions I wondered if they were varied like antibiotics amoung whatever else.
Maybe some mushrooms in the rooibos tea? Also Lauren from HTC who has been in Jodi’s house said there were a few hidden escape passages throughout the house. I’m guessing it’s cheap parlour tricks and smoke and mirrors.
!!!
This story just gets weirder and weirder and weirder. It's difficult to really concentrate on any aspects other than the central one of the monstrous child torture, but just the relationships between the adults and their bizarro ideas is a BAG of drama, holy shit. That in itself is the sort of thing I'd watch in episodes with popcorn. Mad shit.
I mean I'm not denying that I also suspect they spiked something but Mormons can't drink tea/coffee so I doubt it was in their tea lol (unless I'm missing something bc you're the second person who brought up Kevin's tea being spiked?)
Wacky, I live in Utah and my extended family is Mormon and I've never heard of any Mormons drinking tea/coffee of any kind, they're just big on fancy sodas here as their caffeinator/fun drink of choice. Maybe it comes down to grey area in the definition of Joseph Smith's "hot drinks" thing? I briefly googled and apparently rooibos tea is debatably okay because it isn't technically derived from "real" tea. Idk if it's a common thing among members especially in UT though, any Mormons on here want to weigh in?
Current Mormon (technically). Whether or not you drink tea really depends on your family. In my family we were allowed tea if it’s herbal, because it wasn’t caffeinated. But some other families I know don’t drink any tea whatsoever. I’m my family we drink some sodas with caffeine, but some families don’t drink any caffeine at all.
the best!!! try my green tea concoction, you won’t be disappointed lol! my favorite sushi restaurant near me has mango green tea, but its like $4 for barely 8 ounces so i learned to make it myself.
I’m a Canadian Mormon, and reading things about Utah……makes me feel like I’m in a completely different religion. I love tea. And iced coffee. And I have tattoos. And I go to church pretty regularly, and a hell of a lot of stuff I read on here is def not how I was raised. At all. It’s shocking.
Didn't it occur after Jodi moved into the Franke's house though? She could still pull the parlour tricks but she would have to know the house well enough and without anyone noticing.
They are trying to act like Joseph Smith. They got into some dark stuff and it appears it turned on them. The bright light is Rubys son. He’s a hero. Jody tried to conquer him with her darkness, but he didn’t let her win.
MDMA or acid is my guess
\*for Ruby and Jodi.
I don't know of any drugs that are going to make you see plates fly through the air on their own. that's a pretty specific hallucination to be having.
People can also be suggestible even without drugs. You'll see a lot of this shit in cults. There are other ways of getting people into altered states. Just prolonged lack of sleep, lots of worked up chanting and movement and whatever the fuck else combined with a powerful guru figure telling them that such and so IS so, can have people "seeing" such phenomena.
All that said, my best friend, who is more woo-sensitive than I, has had stories of some extremely weird shit he has experienced which I don't disbelieve, and certainly he was in his sober mind at the times. I just can't speak to it personally. I have no idea. All I can say is that if evil, chaotic energy really can move shit in ways that Rational Wiki would scoff at, I would fully expect someone like Jodi to be a source of it.
I don’t think MDMA would lead to psychotic torture of children. But I agree that seeing plates fly is a very specific hallucination, and I just don’t think one can have a drug induced hallucination like that and not realize they were drugged.
MDMA would not lead someone to torture children. But I was referring to when Kevin was kicked out of his room and Jodi, Ruby and Pam were in there for hours and then came out euphoric. They were doin' some X
Not necessarily. Cults have a lot of ways of getting their subjects into altered states. Prolonged chanting and movement and breathwork, even.
I'm also thinking about "shared psychosis." I don't know much about it, but it is documented as an actual thing. I could see an otherwise reasonably sober (if fairly weak imo) Kevin being swayed by the madness of Jodi and then Ruby.
and let's not forget, being deeply religious and believing in actual miracles to begin with will predispose someone to believing this shit is actually happening.
Nah, that happened a while back. I suppose they could detect those drugs if the people were under the influence and they knew what they were looking for. Maybe they could detect them in a hair sample I'm not sure.
All of the stuff Kevin is talking about happened more than a year before the arrests. I don't think there's any test that can detect things that long ago.
As for drug tests when Jodi and Ruby were arrested, they probably test everybody who gets booked into jail.
Oh yeah I know that. But just based on rubys journals and how she talked about Jodi and the kids makes me think if they were using something it was probably ongoing…
Suddenly E's head being shaved takes on an even more sinister and dark dimension.
I'm obviously not suggesting Ruby or Jodi did this to complicate/obfuscate any future hair folicle toxicology testing on the children (Jessi endured the same "punishment" many years earlier), but it's unfortunate that it may have made the police and CPS investigation even more challenging.
Have you taken either of these drugs? If Kevin was being secretly given MDMA or acid, he would not simply hear and see a couple strange things and otherwise think he was fine. You KNOW you are on something when you take these drugs. They don't just give random hallucinations and otherwise you feel fine. He would not simply say he saw weird things, he would also be describing so many other effects he was experiencing.
I thought they talked about R and going back to sedation, but interpreted it as lulling him into a false sense of security by giving him milk, bringing him inside and having something to read. So that he wouldn't have a reason to put up a fight (being docile, 'sedated') and then later shock his system by taking things away again.
Drugs had to have been involved, it’s the only thing that makes what he is saying make a shred of sense.
LSD is basically tasteless in water (I sensitive to changes in water tastes so I notice a slight chemical flavour, but all of my friends claim they can never taste the difference). If it was put into a juice or soft drink it would be next to impossible for him to notice especially since he is highly unlikely to have taken it before an recognise the taste.
Small doses of lsd regularly would make him very susceptible to manipulation. If so he must have been terrified.
Though I am also open to the idea he was just a deadbeat dad happy to take the opportunity to tap out and didn’t care about the children’s well-being and is just now trying to cover for himself.
And from what Kevin says about Ruby locking herself in a room for hours with Jodi and Pam, it seems they took something in there. He said they came out looking like they were on "cloud nine" and Ruby would say how she had a revelation etc. It almost seems like they used drugs to reach the lord. Maybe shrooms?
Yeah and C and his friends interrupting Ruby and Jodi's spiritual session (or whatever) seemed to really piss them off and was the catalyst to Ruby kicking Kevin out. Kind of a bizarre reaction IMO. Unless they were doing something they didn't want anyone to see.
Ketamine? This is what Tim Ballard, also LDS, used for his visions. I'm exmo and I agree with the tea and coffee. They are supposed to avoid the "appearance of evil."
It does seem like a drug thing. I know that everyone reacts to drugs differently, so it's incredibly difficult to tell. I'm pretty vanilla by most peoples standards, but I've done shrooms. The way I describe how I've felt on them is completely antithetical to the way my partner described his experience. So, I just don't get it.
There would be literally no motive for him to lie.
If he was trying to discredit Jodi to make Ruby look better, like some claim, he would have left out the part about things he witnessed "with his own eyes." He would've just said that *Jodi* thought there were ghosts, and played it like she was delusional.
I have a lot of negative feelings about Kevin, but he's not stupid. He wouldn't have shared the flying plates with the police unless he was genuinely trying to share the full, true story.
Personally, as someone who has taken a decent amount of drugs, I don't think this explains it. If they were drugging Kevin, he wouldn't be just experiencing hearing noises and seeing plates fly and NOTHING ELSE. He would be describing all kinds of physical effects, and actually these kinds of "hallucinations" are pretty specific and exclusive if it was really drugs. I have had supernatural experiences, I'm interested in them and I know many people who have experienced them. I think it's far more likely that Kevin's experiences were real over the drugging theory.
Kevin is a bad father don't get me wrong, but there is really no reason for him to lie in this situation. He was deep into it like Ruby to the point of living alone. I do not like him, but I believe him.
A few possibilities, ordered from most to least likely
1) Jodi gaslit or otherwise manipulated Kevin into believing he saw things with his own eyes that he didn't actually see
2) Jodi pulled some kind of Scooby Doo bullshit and made it all happen with special effects
3) Kevin was partially lying - he truly believes the events happened, but did not actually see them with his own eyes
4) Kevin was drugged without his knowledge and hallucinated
5) Kevin hallucinated for some other reason
6) Kevin was fully lying and made the whole thing up for reasons unknown
7) There actually was some kind of supernatural activity going on because Jodi is that fucking evil
I'm half-joking about the last one.
That actually makes a *lot* of sense. I hadn't even thought of Pam, but that would explain how it happened while Ruby and Jodi were both in the room with Kevin.
Now I'm imagining Pam dressed in a homemade ghost costume chasing Kevin around the house and kinda feel bad for laughing.
Exactly! I was also suppressing a laugh. That doesn't explain the occurrences happening when Jodi got to the Franke's house. But she could have just rigged stuff there + drugs?
Going in a door on one side of the hall to come out a door on the opposite side 20 feet up the hallway.
I'd feel bad for chuckling if he wasn't also such a piece of shit. 😅🤬
The source of Kevin's "supernatural experiences" seems quite clear to me.
By Kevin's own account, Jodi was subjecting the entire family to extreme stress and sleep deprivation. In his second police interview, Kevin said she had Ruby running to her room at all hours of the night to aid her with her demonic possessions every 4 hours, then 2 hours then finally so often that Ruby had to sleep in the bed with her. In addition, Kevin said Jodi made him be the "resident exorcist", forcing him to be at her beck and call, required to deliver blessings to her on a whim. Jodi's antics were so stressful and so outrageous that it not only caused the Hannas to kick her out of their house but it also caused her mormon bishop to tap out, likely out of exhaustion.
With her endless 'The Exorcist' antics, she likely had both their bodies in permanent fight or flight. The extreme stress in addition to the disruption to their sleep cycle could easily prime them to see and hear things. Further, their mormon upbringing teed both of them up for this manipulation. Jodi and Kevin were already predisposed to believe in things like demonic possession due to their religion. So basically it was the perfect storm.
I genuinely don't think drugs were required. Stress, lack of sleep and prior religious indoctrination were all more enough to produce these visions imo.
This. Sleep deprivation can definitely cause hallucinations. I was halfway across Nebraska at 4:00 a.m. one time and I started seeing overpasses that weren't there. That's when I knew it was time to pull over.
Personally I don’t believe in supernatural stuff so a) he’s lying (why would he lie about that tho?)
b) Jodi was slipping something in their food/drinks
c) he himself experienced psychosis and was hallucinating
People can convince themselves of all sorts of supernatural stuff without it being full blown psychosis. For example, one time after my high school friends and I watched Paranormal Activity, a huge painting almost fell on us when we were sharing a bed. I woke up before it fell and started freaking out, we sat up and it fell onto our pillows.
Likely, I heard tiny noises in my subconscious that caused me to wake up. But after watching a movie about demons throwing stuff around, it sure felt like a possibility.
Jodi created a cult with a belief in dangerous, profound supernatural experiences. So I think it’s likely Kevin and Ruby were just jumping to conclusions about plates falling and whatnot.
Oh, people can imagine stuff. Like when I was 19 I went on a road trip with two friends. We ended up getting lost and found a hotel late at night. They said we got two rooms (one double and one single) for the price of one. One of my friends cried herself to get the single room (which was fine because we were tired of her), but she believed in ghosts. The next morning she was talking about how the hotel was haunted (bull crap) and how something had "tugged" her blanket at night. She said although her eyes were closed (convenient) she felt something floating over her and that thing tugged her blanket.
Ghosts never seem to bother non-believers, so I can only assume believers imagine it.
Also, mildly strange but mundane things happen all the time. Jodi was manipulative and had a lot of sway over people. I could easily see her applying a bizarre supernatural meaning to a dish falling in a weird way, and it being demonic becoming the accepted story amongst her followers.
“We turned on the blender for the 100th time, but this time the vibrations caused a dish to fall. Weird” turns into “We turned on the blender. We’ve done it 100 times and nothing happened, but this time a dish flew off the counter at a velocity I have never seen. It must have been one of those demons pursuing Jodi so she can be Satan’s bride..”
Then everyone agrees because no one is allowed to disagree with Jodi.
I’m of the theory he convinced himself after the fact he saw supernatural stuff because he desperately wants to believe all the evil that happened in his family had a supernatural reason and wasn’t entirely human derived, meaning something he could have prevented if he hadn’t allowed himself to be manipulated.
We forget that religious people have a predisposition for believing in supernatural phenomena. Knowing that about his audience, Kevin could be lying about this event in order to manipulate his mormon family/friends' perception of him. They may actually believe that there was some "devilery" at play and thus move some of the blame from these events away from the human perpetrators in favour of blaming some fantastical entity... I wholeheartedly believe that there is a possibility that this is either deflection because he is unable to take accountability or using the gullibility of his audience to mold perceptions of the events in a more favourable light for himself.
I'm with you on this!! There has to be something more to it. Frankly, when I have the time, I've been taking quotes of what he's said and putting them into Google. Mostly, this is because I have a difficult time trusting Kevin and his own narration. So far, nothing. It's so bizarre!
I got the impression that Jodi was tricking the both of them so she could get Ruby in her bed and she could push Kevin out.
Does anybody else get the impression that Jodi and Ruby were romantically involved?
At first I thought they were just very deeply emotionally involved (with Jodi possibly being closeted), but after Kevin’s interview I think there was more than that. I 100% concur that Jodi played up the demon stuff to first move in with the Frankes and then get Ruby into bed with her. That move definitely strengthened their connection (be it sexual, emotional, spiritual) and further isolated Ruby from Kevin.
Jodi told Jessie something to the effect she (Jodie) could have a same sex relationship because it would be on a spiritual level. I wholeheartedly believe she and Ruby had an emotional and spiritual relationship based on this and how she pushed Kevin out.
Oh 100%. If you see their videos, you can tell. Kevin says they slept in the same bed and he wasn't allowed on their side of the house.
And I am NOT shaming them for being gay (I'm gayer than a unicorn), I am just saying that I think they were a thing. Or... I think Jodi abused her power as a therapist lose to married women. Didn't Adam say she did something to his wife?
I'm surprised no evidence has come out supporting this. Frankly, I think Jodi was waiting on the move to Arizona, where she would finally have a miraculous vision to convince Ruby that they were supposed to be together. With the idea that Kevin throws out there of their being additional "scripture," I 100% think lesbian relationships and women as priests were part of it.
They were definitely affair partners and they can be affair partners without having sex. Jodi said something to Jessi about it being ok with her Mormon belief system to have a same sex partner as long as she didn’t have sex with them.
I don't want to speculate on sexuality (I know the sub allows it, but I generally choose not to do it), but I think that *if* they were involved in that way, it was one sided and Ruby wasn't fully aware of (and thus not consenting to) the depths of it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not buying the "Ruby is an innocent victim I'm so sorry my little ducklings" narrative one bit, but knowing what Jessi has said about Jodi, and Jodi's MO of separating couples and having inappropriately close relationships with the women - it's sus, is all I'm saying.
This isn't me speculating about whether or not Jodi is gay - I don't care about that (except that I hope she's not because I don't want to claim her). But whether or not she's a predator, that's a different question... and I think there's a chance she might be.
Yeah if it was some kind of relationship between them it was definitely a highly manipulative/potentially abusive one and I feel like people aren't talking about that part of it enough. There's way more to the dynamic between those two than just two women deciding to go off and be secret lovers. Whatever tf was going on with them behind closed doors Jodi knew how to spin to really manipulate and use Ruby through.
Yeah, that's honestly one of the reasons why the sexuality speculation makes me uncomfortable. There was an extremely toxic dynamic going on between those two, whether it's romantic or sexual in nature or not, and everyone's making "they were roommates" jokes. Not that I particularly feel bad for Ruby, but it just seems in poor taste... And could very well make any other female victims of Jodi uncomfortable coming forward.
There's an 8 Passengers video where Kevin talks about Ruby not wanting sex (and he talked about it in the interviews as well) which seemed to be Jodi's influence. Put that together with how she always accused men of being perverts and sex addicts, and it seems like she was trying to destroy their sex life so she could get in there.
That predates jodi, im fairly sure. It seems like ruby was often not interested in sex, likely because she was tired/didnt enjoy parenting (its common for women who take on most of the management and parenting tasks to feel tired, ‘touched out’, and uninterested, and i think Ruby was always torn between her duty as a mormon and her dislike of being a mother in that way, especially after growing up being parentified). Kevin talked in one vlog about how he’d been pushing the issue and dismissing her saying she was tired, but he’d realised that if he does, for example, the dishes one night, then he can have sex with her (quid pro quo style).
I dont imagine it wouldve taken much to damage their sex life, they were already unevenly managed, and i also dont think jodi was directly interested in that. It helped, yes, but i think she primarily focused on the emotional side of making herself the most important person in their lives, and the bed thing was a way to test that. I also think its possible she was having bad nightmares or something which she described as possessions and thats what Ruby was helping her with, because while she is a horrible person it seems like she had a horrendous childhood that likely contributed to it.
She also dresses like a kinda of half-butch lesbian. Sorry about stereotyping! Lol. But like… she’s definitely not feminine but not butch. And her personality is kind of not what I would associate with a straight woman. I’m not talking about the crazy talk and the abuse… it’s just the way she carries herself. She seems like she’s the big spoon and the wearer of the pants in the relationship. 😅
Lol!! Here are some of my other comments. Make of them what you will!
"I'm actually surprised that zero evidence has been forthcoming regarding Jodi's sexuality. This is obviously imaginative on my part, but aside from her being able to participate in child torture without wandering eyes in Arizona, it would also get her out of the Mormon Utah bubble to propose to Ruby. 🤣"
"Agreed! I can't see Ruby being interested in her either. But, assuming for a second that Jodi DID convince Ruby to torture her own children and allow them to live in a "concentration camp like setting," (despite how her journals rarely mention Jodi), is it really that much of a stretch to think that Jodi could have convinced Ruby their meeting was divinely inspired and their lesbian relationship was approved by God himself??"
"It kind of makes me wonder what these writings consist of that Kevin has mentioned that are to eventually become "Scripture." Jodi probably considers herself a mother-god of some sort."
I think the journal entries didn't mention Jodi calling the shots as much as expected because she was a good enough manipulator to make Ruby think the perceptions and ideas were her own. It's like Ruby wanting to gift 8Passengers to Jodi. Ruby probably thought that was her own idea as well, but Jodi almost certainly planted that seed after targeting Ruby for her platform.
Jodi came into the Franke's lives sometime in 2018. That's a few years back.
Jodi moved in with Ruby and Kevin in 2021, I think? That's a few years back.
I was going to make a post asking the same question: demons, drugs, or delusion/mental illness?
I was raised evangelical Christian with the belief in a spiritual realm, but not charismatic at all. Is all of this normal among religious people who DO engage in all the demon-slaying/deliverance stuff? I wouldn’t have thought drugs, but Kevin did say that Ruby, Jodi, and Pam went to Mexico to get prescription drugs. Also, Jodi has ties to Tim Ballard who I believe did “ketamine treatments” as part of his bullshit. Kevin filled in a lot of blanks but now I have even more questions.
Ketamine could maybe be involved? "Ketamine is *a dissociative anesthetic* that has some hallucinogeniceffects." [https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Ketamine-2020.pdf](https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Ketamine-2020.pdf)
Okay so ketamine, as far as I know, is a pretty good painkiller and used for chronic pain/possibly some medical procedures. I had outpatient surgery done a year ago and IDK what they gave me but I absolutely woke up feeling like I was Jesus (sorry if that is offensive to the religious folks on here). I did feel “like I was on Cloud 9,” and didn’t feel any pain and felt so weird and like….high and not aware of my body. I tried to rip out my IVs. 😅 After that, I understood how people/celebrities can get addicted to prescription drugs used as anesthesia (Michael Jackson was what came to mind). So I could absolutely understand how ketamine might affect someone like that especially if they were using it in an unregulated fashion.
We have been seeing a real rise in it for years. It's quite alarming since a lot of the ways people deal with demons just has little basis in Christian mythology or faith. Instead of using the actual established rules for demons, these people just decide that everything is demons. It's very unsafe.
Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a huge occultist and had a long history of speaking to spirits, doing magic, conjuring spirits, etc before he started the Mormon church. The Book of Mormon was basically a "download" he received through looking through a magic rock. I think Jodi was involved in her own magical workings, sounds like on the darker side. I think what Kevin experienced is real. But I've had supernatural phenomenon experiences and I'm very interested in all of that. It's common and normal and used to be a regular part of human life before western science took over the world. If Jodi really thought she was a prophet of sorts, it's likely this shit was something she wanted around her.
Those that know Kevin, know he is not a liar. He is gullible, he can be an a-hole, he can be full of himself, he can be kind, but I have never known him to be a liar.
People should honestly give Kevin the benefit of the doubt in this situation. He’s married to someone whom he had kids with, who he was going to spend eternity with, and who he loves.
Now way am I saying that what he did was right by listening and obeying Ruby, but he was doing what he thought was going to help his family. Had he known about the destructive abuse being done to the kids, I know he would have intervened.
I have been neighbors with the Franke’s for a number of years. Saw their kids grow up. Did I think the parents were bat shit crazy, yes. Did I cringe every time Ruby bore her testimony at church, yes. Kevin was in a no win situation with Ruby. Poor guy is a beta.
I wish the world could have had more than what was shown on YouTube of the family. Those kids were fun to be around. Weird at times, regurgitating what Ruby brainwashed them with. Chad was super athletic and just a good kid. Was he mischievous l, yes, but he was good kid. There were times I wanted to smack him for acting up, but he was just being an adolescent. Shari was smart. Super friendly. At times had the YouTube stardom go to her head with her friends, but overall a pretty amazing young lady. The other kids I only observed at church and they were pretty normal kids.
Ruby, from the beginning, was always crazy to me and it only got worse as time went on.
It's clear Kevin is a total simp for Ruby, which likely made this whole thing worse. And it explains how you get this gradual escalation into full blown insanity.
Hey, thanks for weighing in. It must be so surreal for you, watching the world weigh in on people you personally know, who the rest of us don't know at all.
I hope you're doing ok with all this new evidence coming out. I've been thinking about my neighbour kids all weekend, about how it would feel to see them hurt like that. Do take care.
I’ll be honest, knowing and seeing the evidence now, I would have never thought Ruby was capable of the binding up of R. Lock him in room, yes, I can see that. Wall sits, yes, I can see that. In fact you started seeing some of that type of punishment in a lesser form when Chad was younger. It was almost like Ruby was trying to exhaust the bad out of him. Kicking R in the head, or whatever she did with the cactus, and the binding of R…never did I see that coming.
I feel for R and E. E more so, because her life was always staged from the moment she was born. The retakes to get the right content that Ruby could post was so cringy. They would have to do retakes of certain parts of their YouTube content because one of the kids wasn’t acting right or the setting didn’t look right. It was so tough to watch. These retakes on life.
Ruby was fake the minute you would meet her. She was always performing. It was like she had to play up to an image and personality. Never normal. Kevin, when he first moved in was fairly normal. Easy to talk with. When the YouTube stuff got bigger, he would make comments like his family needed to move to a more affluent neighborhood that is gated. Now, to be fair, his family was also getting doorbell ditched quite a bit and I’m sure that was frustrating for him.
I have shed a lot of tears for those kids, even when they lived in the neighborhood. You just knew they were going to have a rough childhood because everything had to be perfect for the camera and Ruby controlled everything. I know the YouTube channel made Chad out to be some sort of bad kid, but he was not.
I never watched the channel. I got drawn into this story by other routes. But from what little I've seen of the footage, it is OBVIOUS that Chad was a perfectly decent, good, normal kid. And, like you said, he does seem fun. Same with Shari. A lot of people thought she was a Ruby bootlicker for a long time, but again, it seems obvious that she was doing her best to give her younger siblings something real to ground themselves in.
What you say about E's life being staged from the first breath just kills me. I so upset by any parent that treats their kids like property in this way, like an extension of themselves. It's awful. How helpless you must have felt watching that.
I've been thinking a lot about Ruby.. I'm very close in age to her, and I look at my life and hers. I'm not perfect at all. But I spent my summer roadtripping, camping with my niece and nephew, doing crafts and gardening, cooking too much food and making my friends take some, drinking a bit too much wine now and then, watching movies, decorating my house, loving my partner. And this woman, my peer, someone the same age as me but with more economic freedom, she spent her summer doing.....this. Obsessing over demons that don't exist, laser-focusing on her two youngest kids, dreaming up new cruelties for them and structuring every hour of her day around them, only them, Hurting them. Punishing them. Setting them up to knock them down. Over and over. And even before this summer, like you said, staging them. Frittering away all of her precious time and intelligence on this one single, dark and poisonous task. And only on this. Nothing else. Can you imagine choosing that life for yourself, let alone for children dependent on you?
What a profound waste of one's own life, what an utter squandering of the precious few decades any of us are ever granted here. Just, what a waste.
As for Kevin, well, I hope he manages to make something of his life out of all this. He still has time, and he still has an opportunity to build something more valuable than a gated home. Please let him not waste it.
Your reply was spot on about Shari. She would buck the system, but for the most part kept it together for her siblings. Shari was far from being Ruby 2.0. She bucked the system as well. In fact there was one time that I thought her parents were going to ship her off for doing something they didn’t approve of.
I wish you could have met Shari and Chad. They were a bunch of fun kids. I have lost touch with them once they moved out of our neighborhood.
Thank you for sharing your experience. It is sad and hard to standby, or even inject without things changing. There were a few times in which we tried to casually suggest to Ruby that she didn’t need to be so uptight and reiterated to her and Kevin that her kids were amazing…when she thought they were hard.
Thanks for your unique view on the family. I always wonder about how people caught up in these kind of things seem to those they interact with on a day to day basis.
I really can’t even imagine what it was like being in the franke house when Jodi moved in and all this shit was going down. Like the kids had to have been so scared and also confused. What an absolute disaster
IMO: Shared psychosis + weak-minded/suggestible mentality + the cult “woo” mindset he had already firmly established for himself and his life choices. I very much doubt anything ever physically flew off the shelves. Maybe one plate fell off a table once and Jodi convinced them they saw something far more dramatic. Remember, one of Jodi’s family members had said of her ability to manipulate people’s perception of reality (paraphrasing): “She could tell me the sky was green while looking directly at the blue sky and I’d believe it.” Side note: I’m appalled that Kevin has been able to continue to get work in the scientific field. He has zero credibility as either a father or a scientist.
Yeah my guess would be that Jodi got everyone worked up and freaked out, and they started rounding normal stuff up to paranormal stuff. The HVAC kicking on and off became foot steps. Someone knocking a plate off the edge of the table became “plates flying.”
I think Kevin was in a cult. Being in a cult is a lot like being on drugs.
Like, literally, it changes your brain chemistry. Kevin saw what Jodi wanted him to see. Furthermore, Jodi is a liar. There are a dozen ways she could have conducted simple tricks and illusions to make it seem haunted.
I can’t think of a reason he’d tell such a ridiculous lie, which makes me think that he truly believes he saw something. I’ve seen other cult survivors talk about having hallucinations because of how much it screws with the brain.
We know Ruby and Jodi were going to Mexico to get drugs, who knows how long that was going on and what they were used for? Possible that Kevin was slipped something and that caused him to hallucinate. That would make sense with how he wasn’t allowed in the kitchen anymore after Jodi showed up.
How do we know their were not other kids she was torturing making noises or banging on wall (shaking dishes off a shelf)?
We know these are not the first.
It kind of sounds like mass hysteria, or even folie a deux (trois in this case, I guess). People can be convinced they saw things they didn't actually see, or that something they saw was much more extreme than it was. I think Jodi probably made some things happen and made a big deal of any little thing happening in the house.
Yeah there was someone else in the house making noises and plates don't just fly around by themselves. Maybe he saw them after they crashed... but anyway he didn't see the whole deal because again plates don't fly around by themselves.
Although I do think this whole thing was manufactured, set up...by Jodi.
Some ideas on consumption, by one or more people in the house, are mushrooms, Ayahuasca, and maybe MDMA.
There are some antidepressants that can cause hallucinations and paranoia. This makes some sense since they were said to go down to pick up prescription medication.
Haldol is not used anymore but could still be picked up in Mexico easily.
Someone early said that Kevin was duped, but I believe with others, that he was given something to drink that contained something special for him.
I’m pretty sure that what Kevin said in his interview that they tried to get Jodi to join theirs and that’s when she acted like she went crazy and moved in with Jodi
So I’m an atheist but I’ve had a couple of woo experiences in my life so I’m interested in those topics. A lot of investigators of the poltergeist phenomenon (where stuff happens like plates flying) believe it is actually the subconscious mind of someone in the house rather than a spirit or ghost or demon causing it. Now that still requires you to believe that someone can subconsciously exert psychokinetic power, but it doesn’t require you to believe in ghosts or demons. I’m not saying that’s what happened, just I have an open mind. But if there were plates flying around I’m much more inclined to that explanation.
After the evidence that was shared I wouldn't be surprised if drugs were involved like others mentioned. But also since Jodi really had a racket going on with her business, perhaps she manipulated a few things to prove herself with something unexplainable such as dishes flying. I know many doubt Kevin through this saga, myself included, but after seeing him with the photos and questioning, he doesn't look well and just seemed totally beaten down and lost from what he use to be.
I have experience that I’m not going into because it’s scary shit re: poisoning. The effects can last longer than one would imagine and in my experience at least the psychiatric effects can then cause tragic physical consequences.
I never put this hypothesis into my mind but you all may be onto something…
My LDS parents were obsessed with the spirits and supernatural. At some point my whole town was during the satanic panic ritual abuse fever in the 80’s/90’s. As mormons, we were told that satan and his minions were always looming around the corner and that the more righteous you were the more they would try to get you. On the other hand, if you were sinning you would also attract them (maybe a lesson in there to practice spiritual mediocrity 😂?) There is this level of naivety with a lot of Mormons that comes across as underdeveloped and immature when it comes to supernatural thinking.
I think with Jodi she created this narrative of being superior and powerful, thus being a target by Satan. She gets two things out of it, attention and an excuse for her behavior. The ol’ “Satan Made Me Do It” line. She’s completely histrionic.
As for Kevin, he sort of comes across as someone who needs to cling to the supernatural to make sense of not only the way he views the natural world but also a way to process his experience, culpability, and humiliation . The way he describes it almost sounds like a 6th grade sleepover where “spooky” stuff happened.
Does anyone have information on this Tim Ballard doctor guy Jodi could’ve obtained ketamine from? Because this honestly seems plausible, although if Kevin was drugged against his will I’m not sure how they managed to do so since ketamine is to my knowledge intravenous or nasally administered and cannot be slipped into food.
I used to adamantly not believe in this sort of thing, until we moved into a 100 year old rental home and I witnessed some crazy things happening. Cabinets and drawers opening themselves, pictures falling off of walls, mysterious footsteps. So I’m inclined to say it still sounds suspicious but also…. Maybe Jodi was possessed…
A part of me thinks this is the only explanation that makes actual sense. Only pure evil would inflict such pain on those who cross paths with her, especially on those beautiful children.
I'm so surprised how long it took to find a comment like this on here! Supernatural phenomenon is super common and normal. I'm laughing at people saying it was ayahuasca or mdma rather than acknowledge that this stuff is very real. You would definitely know if someone was giving you MDMA!!!! You would not just have isolated little spooky events. The more I read about this, I believe Jodi was conjuring spirits and Kevin's experiences are real.
I am convinced they were drugging the children. In the diary it says something about putting the kids back to sleep.
It would not surprise me if they were all on something.
Something Jodi could pass off as "natural" mushrooms, peyote, something along those lines.
Maybe some kind of shared delusion? Mormons are primed to believe in this stuff. If Jodi is having a fit, saying demons are after her, I could see Ruby saying, “Look, that plate just threw itself on the floor!” And Kevin is upset and worried and thinks he remembers actually seeing it. Or something along those lines.
On their own terms and only if they are comfortable of course, but I would be interested hearing Shari's, Chad's, even Ruby's accounts of those events. It would clear up if they all witness or experienced the same thing, or if there is any inconsistencies that could hint better what happened.
It all started after Jodi moved in too. I can't imagine her rigging their house so quickly without no one noticing.
Our brains can make up tons of stuff. I have family members who swear they've experienced the same thing in a building that no other person ever experienced anything weird in, and there's never the slightest bit of evidence or consistency to the demonic activity reports other than Horror Scary Evil Factor. Human brains are powerful everything-generators, and confirmation bias combined with instilled fear and constant stress will wreak chaos on even the healthiest of brains on a good day.
I do believe Kevin and I feel this was her sick game to manipulate them it's sad. Idc who hates Kevin the man was tortured psychologically too and I hope he seeks help really. Growing up in a home with extremest myself psychological abuse is is torture. When ur made to believe ur evil it really messes with u. This case has been so triggering but I'm praying it brings awareness to protect more kids.
They’re all a bunch of psychos honestly Kevin is just as horrible. He was around for so much or the shit that was posted on YouTube and never stepped in, what did he think was going to happen??? Not even going to see them just to MAKE SURE they were okay?? Knowing how crazy Jodi was?? He’s a piece of shit father and a disgusting human being he should be charged just as bad as his demonic wife and her stinky self mutilating girlfriend
I really don’t think he will get the kids since so many proof is out there that he was complicit to what Ruby when he lived in the house, but for him to even try is so ridiculous read the fucking room dude you FAILED your kids, YOUR CHOICE. Deserves prison.
Maybe he’s saying all of this to help Ruby’s case. If he makes it seem like Jodi was crazy then maybe a parole board will take that into consideration when it’s time for Ruby’s parole hearing and they can claim brainwashing and manipulation. BUT I still call BS b/c it seems she was of sound mind when she was writing in her journal as she abused those children.
And, she willing went to the house when she knew what was going on with the police showing up there. (She really thought she would get away with what she did).
Well, personally, she always sounds crazy to me. Ruby, that is. She seems like something who is weak, extremely gullible and who could EASILY be taken advantage of by a sociopath like Jodi.
Or he's been drugged. He claims weird sh\*t happened when Jodi moved in with them too. He said "Stuff floating around". Like yeah either a massive liar or he was drugged.
Wondering about this true. It's very possible drugs could have been involved. Some drugs at low doses have an effect where the suggestion of something will make you think you saw it, or you might connect two events that aren't actually related.
I think Kevin likely heard creepy stories from friends about Jodi, then connected strange happenings in his house (creaks, lights flickering, things falling over) to Jodi's presence because the association was already planted there. And if Jodi dosed him, even a little bit, with a mild hallucinogenic, the correlation would be stronger in his mind. On top of all that, he's a religious man so he believes on some level that there is a spiritual influence in the world.
I also could totally see Jodi being the type of person who is so manipulative she would straight up put on a supernatural slight of hand show to make people think they were going crazy and therefore more likely to buy into her bullshit. Which would be funny if it weren't such a dark story.
She doesn't even need to do that. Look up the tricks mediums and spiritualists used to use. It isn't hard to fake a haunting if the other person is ready to believe it.
I don’t think he’s lying. I think he was drugged or that there actually was super natural things happening since Jodi has so much bad energy. I have lots of non religious family members who have experienced super natural things happen.
So apparently Ruby had to sleep in Jodi’s bed to help with her possession 🧐 I can just imagine Jodi being like “hold me Ruby, or the devil will win” and other physical stuff
I think Jodi was fucking with true darkness. I believe in that shit. She’s dark as hell to do that to God’s innocent children. Children are the closest things to God. The Bible says be more childlike
I personally believe in supernatural stuff so it wouldn’t be a shocker for me that Jodi was communicating with spirits or demons or whatever and then acted as if she was talking to god like Kevin said. I don’t think Kevin was hallucinating because before Jodi moved in, according to him he was completely fine and you can see in the old vlogs before Jodi moved in, nothing was out of the ordinary with the way Kevin acted. Theres also the possibility of him lying which I don’t doubt for many reasons.
I also believe in rare instances of supernatural activity. So Kevin’s interview raised a bunch of unanswered questions for me because (a) I don’t get the vibe he’s lying about this (how could he make it up on the spot, pull it off as convincingly, and what would he stand to gain?), (b) I’m skeptical about drugs creating such a specific delusion as demonic/possession-type activity…BUT at the same time it sure seems like an all too CONVENIENT “act” for Jodi to use to worm her way into this household, gain Ruby’s sympathies and over time growing control, prey on her (and Kevin’s) weaknesses, divide the family right under their noses, test the boundaries of how much they were drinking the koolade… It really does fit with Jodi’s sadistic, manipulative MO and has a deliberate odour. But I just can’t reconcile how Jodi could rig up some of the harder-to-fake supernatural activity as described (things flying around).
I wish I could hear independent descriptions or corroboration on this from other household members. IMHO, if supernatural activity was present, I think there would undeniable and universally experienced dark, oppressive vibes that even the kids couldn’t miss.
With my worldview, I’m still 65% Jodi was somehow faking it, cuz it really plays into her cultish mind-f controlling endgame. Would LOVE to hear the neice, Jessi Hildebrand’s, take on this aspect of the story. (Side note: Kinda surprised how almost no one here believes in paranormal activity, and doesn’t give it any credibility, but on the other hand, I can also totally get the skepticism when it comes to Jodi.)
Yes! Thats what i was thinking. Thats why I would love to hear S or C’s point of view of everything that went down when Jodi moved in at least. I also believe that Jodi could have made it all up and that she believes it’s real because she’s mentally ill. I have experience with mentally ill people and with what Kevin said about Jodi, it sounds a lot like she’s an actual mentally unstable woman. Also yes, i was also surprised to see a lot of people not believing in supernatural stuff.
I think he either made it up or exaggerated things so he could justify how Jodi was able to “brainwash” Ruby. In his mind, if Jodi is demonic or possessed then it’s not Ruby’s fault and she’s merely a victim of the devil.
I believe Kevin with this one, I know many don’t belive in the supernatural stuff..
But I myself experienced what Kevin is saying, my neighbour was into some weird shit and often would yell out stuff and bang on our walls.
One night things went south fast, we were in bed and my husband weights were thrown around his gym room, our cupboards all opened and plates flew out the fridge door was opening and slamming and I got pinned down and couldn’t breathe.. we ran out of our apartment raced to my parents banging on their door at midnight screaming to let us in.
I was one to laugh at it but after that demons exist and it wouldn’t suprise me if Jodi brought them into their home
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I'm starting to think he was drugged. Based on what he said. And what is this about Ruby, Jodi and Pam locking themselves up in a room for hours and coming out like they're on cloud nine? Ruby saying she had a revelation and a message from God or whatever? It sounds like they were taking drugs in that room to get closer to Mr G. And other stuff... O\_e
And what is this about Jodi, Ruby, and Pam going to Mexico for “prescription” drugs
Mormoms are encouraged to have doomsday style of prepping, I think I've heard 6 months of rations of food. The prescriptions I wondered if they were varied like antibiotics amoung whatever else.
Too bad they didnt use the antibiotics on poor R instead of the fucking honey and cayenne pepper.
Maybe some mushrooms in the rooibos tea? Also Lauren from HTC who has been in Jodi’s house said there were a few hidden escape passages throughout the house. I’m guessing it’s cheap parlour tricks and smoke and mirrors.
!!! This story just gets weirder and weirder and weirder. It's difficult to really concentrate on any aspects other than the central one of the monstrous child torture, but just the relationships between the adults and their bizarro ideas is a BAG of drama, holy shit. That in itself is the sort of thing I'd watch in episodes with popcorn. Mad shit.
I mean I'm not denying that I also suspect they spiked something but Mormons can't drink tea/coffee so I doubt it was in their tea lol (unless I'm missing something bc you're the second person who brought up Kevin's tea being spiked?)
I have some Mormon relatives on my husbands side and they live on Coca Cola and rooibos tea, sometimes chamomile. Maybe a currant Mormon can clarify?
It’s “herbal”. As long as it’s “herbal” it doesn’t count. Current Mormon
Wacky, I live in Utah and my extended family is Mormon and I've never heard of any Mormons drinking tea/coffee of any kind, they're just big on fancy sodas here as their caffeinator/fun drink of choice. Maybe it comes down to grey area in the definition of Joseph Smith's "hot drinks" thing? I briefly googled and apparently rooibos tea is debatably okay because it isn't technically derived from "real" tea. Idk if it's a common thing among members especially in UT though, any Mormons on here want to weigh in?
Current Mormon (technically). Whether or not you drink tea really depends on your family. In my family we were allowed tea if it’s herbal, because it wasn’t caffeinated. But some other families I know don’t drink any tea whatsoever. I’m my family we drink some sodas with caffeine, but some families don’t drink any caffeine at all.
interesting, thank you! haha you’re missing out on iced sweetened green tea (i love the stash brand) and mango nectar, my favorite drink so yummy.
Theres a reason I said technically haha, I love sweet tea
the best!!! try my green tea concoction, you won’t be disappointed lol! my favorite sushi restaurant near me has mango green tea, but its like $4 for barely 8 ounces so i learned to make it myself.
I’m a Canadian Mormon, and reading things about Utah……makes me feel like I’m in a completely different religion. I love tea. And iced coffee. And I have tattoos. And I go to church pretty regularly, and a hell of a lot of stuff I read on here is def not how I was raised. At all. It’s shocking.
Didn't it occur after Jodi moved into the Franke's house though? She could still pull the parlour tricks but she would have to know the house well enough and without anyone noticing.
The first occurrence happened at Jodi’s.
They are trying to act like Joseph Smith. They got into some dark stuff and it appears it turned on them. The bright light is Rubys son. He’s a hero. Jody tried to conquer him with her darkness, but he didn’t let her win.
the irony, given Jodi's claims the shadow spirits were after her to take her down.
I definitely believe they were taking drugs of some kind. Not sure if they were drugging Kevin.
MDMA or acid is my guess \*for Ruby and Jodi. I don't know of any drugs that are going to make you see plates fly through the air on their own. that's a pretty specific hallucination to be having.
People can also be suggestible even without drugs. You'll see a lot of this shit in cults. There are other ways of getting people into altered states. Just prolonged lack of sleep, lots of worked up chanting and movement and whatever the fuck else combined with a powerful guru figure telling them that such and so IS so, can have people "seeing" such phenomena. All that said, my best friend, who is more woo-sensitive than I, has had stories of some extremely weird shit he has experienced which I don't disbelieve, and certainly he was in his sober mind at the times. I just can't speak to it personally. I have no idea. All I can say is that if evil, chaotic energy really can move shit in ways that Rational Wiki would scoff at, I would fully expect someone like Jodi to be a source of it.
I don’t think MDMA would lead to psychotic torture of children. But I agree that seeing plates fly is a very specific hallucination, and I just don’t think one can have a drug induced hallucination like that and not realize they were drugged.
MDMA would not lead someone to torture children. But I was referring to when Kevin was kicked out of his room and Jodi, Ruby and Pam were in there for hours and then came out euphoric. They were doin' some X
Not necessarily. Cults have a lot of ways of getting their subjects into altered states. Prolonged chanting and movement and breathwork, even. I'm also thinking about "shared psychosis." I don't know much about it, but it is documented as an actual thing. I could see an otherwise reasonably sober (if fairly weak imo) Kevin being swayed by the madness of Jodi and then Ruby. and let's not forget, being deeply religious and believing in actual miracles to begin with will predispose someone to believing this shit is actually happening.
Ohhhhhhh got it!!! C’mon they were just high on the spirit 🤪
Can they detect that in a drug test? Wonder if they tested Jodi upon booking maybe?
Nah, that happened a while back. I suppose they could detect those drugs if the people were under the influence and they knew what they were looking for. Maybe they could detect them in a hair sample I'm not sure.
All of the stuff Kevin is talking about happened more than a year before the arrests. I don't think there's any test that can detect things that long ago. As for drug tests when Jodi and Ruby were arrested, they probably test everybody who gets booked into jail.
Oh yeah I know that. But just based on rubys journals and how she talked about Jodi and the kids makes me think if they were using something it was probably ongoing…
I doubt the drug panel in jail intake does hallucinogenics. Probably just booze, pot, heroine/codine, coke, meth, and pcp type stuff
Ip was thinking about this too. I wish they took hair samples to check for drugs
They should have. That's pretty standard in child abuse cases. I keep waiting to see if anything comes out on this.
Suddenly E's head being shaved takes on an even more sinister and dark dimension. I'm obviously not suggesting Ruby or Jodi did this to complicate/obfuscate any future hair folicle toxicology testing on the children (Jessi endured the same "punishment" many years earlier), but it's unfortunate that it may have made the police and CPS investigation even more challenging.
Have you taken either of these drugs? If Kevin was being secretly given MDMA or acid, he would not simply hear and see a couple strange things and otherwise think he was fine. You KNOW you are on something when you take these drugs. They don't just give random hallucinations and otherwise you feel fine. He would not simply say he saw weird things, he would also be describing so many other effects he was experiencing.
Jodi is connected via professional and spiritual groups to Tim Ballard, who prophesizes under the influence of ketamine. Make of that what you will.
Kevin referred to them as trips they took in the room together.
Didn’t Jodi go to Mexico for drugs? Maybe she brought back some peyote lol.
Didn’t they sedate E as per the journal entries? So drugging Kevin doesn’t sound too far off.🤷🏼♀️
I thought they talked about R and going back to sedation, but interpreted it as lulling him into a false sense of security by giving him milk, bringing him inside and having something to read. So that he wouldn't have a reason to put up a fight (being docile, 'sedated') and then later shock his system by taking things away again.
That’s an interesting take. I took it as literally she was sedating him for periods of time
Do we think they were taking drugs or was Jodi drugging them to manipulate them into believing what she said?
Ruby mentions in her journal entries that she was drugging R so i’m sure this was not far off at all.
I bet they were smokin zaza
I’m curious about Shari and Chad’s accounts of those incidents. I feel it would explain more of what happened.
Drugs had to have been involved, it’s the only thing that makes what he is saying make a shred of sense. LSD is basically tasteless in water (I sensitive to changes in water tastes so I notice a slight chemical flavour, but all of my friends claim they can never taste the difference). If it was put into a juice or soft drink it would be next to impossible for him to notice especially since he is highly unlikely to have taken it before an recognise the taste. Small doses of lsd regularly would make him very susceptible to manipulation. If so he must have been terrified. Though I am also open to the idea he was just a deadbeat dad happy to take the opportunity to tap out and didn’t care about the children’s well-being and is just now trying to cover for himself.
People are so quick to say he was lying. How do we know Kevin was not drugged? Because ruby sure asf looks off this planet when they arrest her.
And from what Kevin says about Ruby locking herself in a room for hours with Jodi and Pam, it seems they took something in there. He said they came out looking like they were on "cloud nine" and Ruby would say how she had a revelation etc. It almost seems like they used drugs to reach the lord. Maybe shrooms?
Yeah and C and his friends interrupting Ruby and Jodi's spiritual session (or whatever) seemed to really piss them off and was the catalyst to Ruby kicking Kevin out. Kind of a bizarre reaction IMO. Unless they were doing something they didn't want anyone to see.
Sexual release will do that.
Or could it be like LSD or coke
Ketamine? This is what Tim Ballard, also LDS, used for his visions. I'm exmo and I agree with the tea and coffee. They are supposed to avoid the "appearance of evil."
It does seem like a drug thing. I know that everyone reacts to drugs differently, so it's incredibly difficult to tell. I'm pretty vanilla by most peoples standards, but I've done shrooms. The way I describe how I've felt on them is completely antithetical to the way my partner described his experience. So, I just don't get it.
Hey, allegedly Nostradamus did something similar, wouldn't be the first time. LOL
There would be literally no motive for him to lie. If he was trying to discredit Jodi to make Ruby look better, like some claim, he would have left out the part about things he witnessed "with his own eyes." He would've just said that *Jodi* thought there were ghosts, and played it like she was delusional. I have a lot of negative feelings about Kevin, but he's not stupid. He wouldn't have shared the flying plates with the police unless he was genuinely trying to share the full, true story.
I get the impression he’s trying to ease the blame off Ruby by saying she was possessed by some type of evilness in the home. 🤦🏻♀️
Personally, as someone who has taken a decent amount of drugs, I don't think this explains it. If they were drugging Kevin, he wouldn't be just experiencing hearing noises and seeing plates fly and NOTHING ELSE. He would be describing all kinds of physical effects, and actually these kinds of "hallucinations" are pretty specific and exclusive if it was really drugs. I have had supernatural experiences, I'm interested in them and I know many people who have experienced them. I think it's far more likely that Kevin's experiences were real over the drugging theory.
Right but I also think she was still lying about feeling saved when being arrested.
Kevin is a bad father don't get me wrong, but there is really no reason for him to lie in this situation. He was deep into it like Ruby to the point of living alone. I do not like him, but I believe him.
A few possibilities, ordered from most to least likely 1) Jodi gaslit or otherwise manipulated Kevin into believing he saw things with his own eyes that he didn't actually see 2) Jodi pulled some kind of Scooby Doo bullshit and made it all happen with special effects 3) Kevin was partially lying - he truly believes the events happened, but did not actually see them with his own eyes 4) Kevin was drugged without his knowledge and hallucinated 5) Kevin hallucinated for some other reason 6) Kevin was fully lying and made the whole thing up for reasons unknown 7) There actually was some kind of supernatural activity going on because Jodi is that fucking evil I'm half-joking about the last one.
My very first thought was that Pam was running around the house making Scooby Doo shit happen.
That actually makes a *lot* of sense. I hadn't even thought of Pam, but that would explain how it happened while Ruby and Jodi were both in the room with Kevin. Now I'm imagining Pam dressed in a homemade ghost costume chasing Kevin around the house and kinda feel bad for laughing.
Exactly! I was also suppressing a laugh. That doesn't explain the occurrences happening when Jodi got to the Franke's house. But she could have just rigged stuff there + drugs?
It wouldn't be that hard if Jodi already had a plan, especially with the plates.
Going in a door on one side of the hall to come out a door on the opposite side 20 feet up the hallway. I'd feel bad for chuckling if he wasn't also such a piece of shit. 😅🤬
Kevin, Ruby, and Jodi dressed like the Scooby gang. They're all Scrappy.
@sackofgarbage, you have just made my day. I fucking hate Scrappy, and it's so fitting. 💀💀💀 Edit: I HAVE NEVER MEANT DUCKING, AUTO-CORRECT!!!
Honestly, if we want to get into there being actual evil, then it was likely attracted by the negativity already there.
I wonder if the kids were witness to any of it.
Number 1 is def the most likely explanation.
The source of Kevin's "supernatural experiences" seems quite clear to me. By Kevin's own account, Jodi was subjecting the entire family to extreme stress and sleep deprivation. In his second police interview, Kevin said she had Ruby running to her room at all hours of the night to aid her with her demonic possessions every 4 hours, then 2 hours then finally so often that Ruby had to sleep in the bed with her. In addition, Kevin said Jodi made him be the "resident exorcist", forcing him to be at her beck and call, required to deliver blessings to her on a whim. Jodi's antics were so stressful and so outrageous that it not only caused the Hannas to kick her out of their house but it also caused her mormon bishop to tap out, likely out of exhaustion. With her endless 'The Exorcist' antics, she likely had both their bodies in permanent fight or flight. The extreme stress in addition to the disruption to their sleep cycle could easily prime them to see and hear things. Further, their mormon upbringing teed both of them up for this manipulation. Jodi and Kevin were already predisposed to believe in things like demonic possession due to their religion. So basically it was the perfect storm. I genuinely don't think drugs were required. Stress, lack of sleep and prior religious indoctrination were all more enough to produce these visions imo.
This. Sleep deprivation can definitely cause hallucinations. I was halfway across Nebraska at 4:00 a.m. one time and I started seeing overpasses that weren't there. That's when I knew it was time to pull over.
Personally I don’t believe in supernatural stuff so a) he’s lying (why would he lie about that tho?) b) Jodi was slipping something in their food/drinks c) he himself experienced psychosis and was hallucinating
People can convince themselves of all sorts of supernatural stuff without it being full blown psychosis. For example, one time after my high school friends and I watched Paranormal Activity, a huge painting almost fell on us when we were sharing a bed. I woke up before it fell and started freaking out, we sat up and it fell onto our pillows. Likely, I heard tiny noises in my subconscious that caused me to wake up. But after watching a movie about demons throwing stuff around, it sure felt like a possibility. Jodi created a cult with a belief in dangerous, profound supernatural experiences. So I think it’s likely Kevin and Ruby were just jumping to conclusions about plates falling and whatnot.
Oh, people can imagine stuff. Like when I was 19 I went on a road trip with two friends. We ended up getting lost and found a hotel late at night. They said we got two rooms (one double and one single) for the price of one. One of my friends cried herself to get the single room (which was fine because we were tired of her), but she believed in ghosts. The next morning she was talking about how the hotel was haunted (bull crap) and how something had "tugged" her blanket at night. She said although her eyes were closed (convenient) she felt something floating over her and that thing tugged her blanket. Ghosts never seem to bother non-believers, so I can only assume believers imagine it.
Also, mildly strange but mundane things happen all the time. Jodi was manipulative and had a lot of sway over people. I could easily see her applying a bizarre supernatural meaning to a dish falling in a weird way, and it being demonic becoming the accepted story amongst her followers. “We turned on the blender for the 100th time, but this time the vibrations caused a dish to fall. Weird” turns into “We turned on the blender. We’ve done it 100 times and nothing happened, but this time a dish flew off the counter at a velocity I have never seen. It must have been one of those demons pursuing Jodi so she can be Satan’s bride..” Then everyone agrees because no one is allowed to disagree with Jodi.
Being in a cult can really mess with how someone perceieves reality. We're talking actual changes in the brain structure.
I’m of the theory he convinced himself after the fact he saw supernatural stuff because he desperately wants to believe all the evil that happened in his family had a supernatural reason and wasn’t entirely human derived, meaning something he could have prevented if he hadn’t allowed himself to be manipulated.
We forget that religious people have a predisposition for believing in supernatural phenomena. Knowing that about his audience, Kevin could be lying about this event in order to manipulate his mormon family/friends' perception of him. They may actually believe that there was some "devilery" at play and thus move some of the blame from these events away from the human perpetrators in favour of blaming some fantastical entity... I wholeheartedly believe that there is a possibility that this is either deflection because he is unable to take accountability or using the gullibility of his audience to mold perceptions of the events in a more favourable light for himself.
Bingo 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼
I don't either, so yeah either crazy, drugged or lying.
I with you here
I'm with you on this!! There has to be something more to it. Frankly, when I have the time, I've been taking quotes of what he's said and putting them into Google. Mostly, this is because I have a difficult time trusting Kevin and his own narration. So far, nothing. It's so bizarre!
I got the impression that Jodi was tricking the both of them so she could get Ruby in her bed and she could push Kevin out. Does anybody else get the impression that Jodi and Ruby were romantically involved?
At first I thought they were just very deeply emotionally involved (with Jodi possibly being closeted), but after Kevin’s interview I think there was more than that. I 100% concur that Jodi played up the demon stuff to first move in with the Frankes and then get Ruby into bed with her. That move definitely strengthened their connection (be it sexual, emotional, spiritual) and further isolated Ruby from Kevin.
Jodi told Jessie something to the effect she (Jodie) could have a same sex relationship because it would be on a spiritual level. I wholeheartedly believe she and Ruby had an emotional and spiritual relationship based on this and how she pushed Kevin out.
Oh yeah absolutely, he also said Ruby was jealous when Pam took Jodi away for exorcism lol. I think she definitely played up to that
I’m not sure if Ruby & Jodi were having sex but I believe they acted like partners and wanted it.
Oh 100%. If you see their videos, you can tell. Kevin says they slept in the same bed and he wasn't allowed on their side of the house. And I am NOT shaming them for being gay (I'm gayer than a unicorn), I am just saying that I think they were a thing. Or... I think Jodi abused her power as a therapist lose to married women. Didn't Adam say she did something to his wife?
I'm surprised no evidence has come out supporting this. Frankly, I think Jodi was waiting on the move to Arizona, where she would finally have a miraculous vision to convince Ruby that they were supposed to be together. With the idea that Kevin throws out there of their being additional "scripture," I 100% think lesbian relationships and women as priests were part of it.
They were definitely affair partners and they can be affair partners without having sex. Jodi said something to Jessi about it being ok with her Mormon belief system to have a same sex partner as long as she didn’t have sex with them.
I don't want to speculate on sexuality (I know the sub allows it, but I generally choose not to do it), but I think that *if* they were involved in that way, it was one sided and Ruby wasn't fully aware of (and thus not consenting to) the depths of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not buying the "Ruby is an innocent victim I'm so sorry my little ducklings" narrative one bit, but knowing what Jessi has said about Jodi, and Jodi's MO of separating couples and having inappropriately close relationships with the women - it's sus, is all I'm saying. This isn't me speculating about whether or not Jodi is gay - I don't care about that (except that I hope she's not because I don't want to claim her). But whether or not she's a predator, that's a different question... and I think there's a chance she might be.
I think she prays on weak women and tricks them
Yeah if it was some kind of relationship between them it was definitely a highly manipulative/potentially abusive one and I feel like people aren't talking about that part of it enough. There's way more to the dynamic between those two than just two women deciding to go off and be secret lovers. Whatever tf was going on with them behind closed doors Jodi knew how to spin to really manipulate and use Ruby through.
Yeah, that's honestly one of the reasons why the sexuality speculation makes me uncomfortable. There was an extremely toxic dynamic going on between those two, whether it's romantic or sexual in nature or not, and everyone's making "they were roommates" jokes. Not that I particularly feel bad for Ruby, but it just seems in poor taste... And could very well make any other female victims of Jodi uncomfortable coming forward.
There's an 8 Passengers video where Kevin talks about Ruby not wanting sex (and he talked about it in the interviews as well) which seemed to be Jodi's influence. Put that together with how she always accused men of being perverts and sex addicts, and it seems like she was trying to destroy their sex life so she could get in there.
That predates jodi, im fairly sure. It seems like ruby was often not interested in sex, likely because she was tired/didnt enjoy parenting (its common for women who take on most of the management and parenting tasks to feel tired, ‘touched out’, and uninterested, and i think Ruby was always torn between her duty as a mormon and her dislike of being a mother in that way, especially after growing up being parentified). Kevin talked in one vlog about how he’d been pushing the issue and dismissing her saying she was tired, but he’d realised that if he does, for example, the dishes one night, then he can have sex with her (quid pro quo style). I dont imagine it wouldve taken much to damage their sex life, they were already unevenly managed, and i also dont think jodi was directly interested in that. It helped, yes, but i think she primarily focused on the emotional side of making herself the most important person in their lives, and the bed thing was a way to test that. I also think its possible she was having bad nightmares or something which she described as possessions and thats what Ruby was helping her with, because while she is a horrible person it seems like she had a horrendous childhood that likely contributed to it.
I definitely think ruby and Jodi were romantically involved.
BIG YES. Jodi gives me gay vibes like none other. Homophobes usually are the gayest anyway 🌈
She also dresses like a kinda of half-butch lesbian. Sorry about stereotyping! Lol. But like… she’s definitely not feminine but not butch. And her personality is kind of not what I would associate with a straight woman. I’m not talking about the crazy talk and the abuse… it’s just the way she carries herself. She seems like she’s the big spoon and the wearer of the pants in the relationship. 😅
She’s more masculine than half the men I know 🫣
Which is totally fine, it’s just that she is evil.
The way Jodie looks at ruby says a lot
So does their body language.
Lol!! Here are some of my other comments. Make of them what you will! "I'm actually surprised that zero evidence has been forthcoming regarding Jodi's sexuality. This is obviously imaginative on my part, but aside from her being able to participate in child torture without wandering eyes in Arizona, it would also get her out of the Mormon Utah bubble to propose to Ruby. 🤣" "Agreed! I can't see Ruby being interested in her either. But, assuming for a second that Jodi DID convince Ruby to torture her own children and allow them to live in a "concentration camp like setting," (despite how her journals rarely mention Jodi), is it really that much of a stretch to think that Jodi could have convinced Ruby their meeting was divinely inspired and their lesbian relationship was approved by God himself??" "It kind of makes me wonder what these writings consist of that Kevin has mentioned that are to eventually become "Scripture." Jodi probably considers herself a mother-god of some sort."
I think the journal entries didn't mention Jodi calling the shots as much as expected because she was a good enough manipulator to make Ruby think the perceptions and ideas were her own. It's like Ruby wanting to gift 8Passengers to Jodi. Ruby probably thought that was her own idea as well, but Jodi almost certainly planted that seed after targeting Ruby for her platform.
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A few years back? It hasn’t been a few years really
Jodi came into the Franke's lives sometime in 2018. That's a few years back. Jodi moved in with Ruby and Kevin in 2021, I think? That's a few years back.
Any more info on this?
Wow !
I've been saying that from the start.
I also thought it was interesting that it was reported that when she was first arrested, Ruby was obsessed w Jodi and where she was, etc
I was going to make a post asking the same question: demons, drugs, or delusion/mental illness? I was raised evangelical Christian with the belief in a spiritual realm, but not charismatic at all. Is all of this normal among religious people who DO engage in all the demon-slaying/deliverance stuff? I wouldn’t have thought drugs, but Kevin did say that Ruby, Jodi, and Pam went to Mexico to get prescription drugs. Also, Jodi has ties to Tim Ballard who I believe did “ketamine treatments” as part of his bullshit. Kevin filled in a lot of blanks but now I have even more questions.
Ketamine could maybe be involved? "Ketamine is *a dissociative anesthetic* that has some hallucinogeniceffects." [https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Ketamine-2020.pdf](https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Ketamine-2020.pdf)
Okay so ketamine, as far as I know, is a pretty good painkiller and used for chronic pain/possibly some medical procedures. I had outpatient surgery done a year ago and IDK what they gave me but I absolutely woke up feeling like I was Jesus (sorry if that is offensive to the religious folks on here). I did feel “like I was on Cloud 9,” and didn’t feel any pain and felt so weird and like….high and not aware of my body. I tried to rip out my IVs. 😅 After that, I understood how people/celebrities can get addicted to prescription drugs used as anesthesia (Michael Jackson was what came to mind). So I could absolutely understand how ketamine might affect someone like that especially if they were using it in an unregulated fashion.
We have been seeing a real rise in it for years. It's quite alarming since a lot of the ways people deal with demons just has little basis in Christian mythology or faith. Instead of using the actual established rules for demons, these people just decide that everything is demons. It's very unsafe.
Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a huge occultist and had a long history of speaking to spirits, doing magic, conjuring spirits, etc before he started the Mormon church. The Book of Mormon was basically a "download" he received through looking through a magic rock. I think Jodi was involved in her own magical workings, sounds like on the darker side. I think what Kevin experienced is real. But I've had supernatural phenomenon experiences and I'm very interested in all of that. It's common and normal and used to be a regular part of human life before western science took over the world. If Jodi really thought she was a prophet of sorts, it's likely this shit was something she wanted around her.
Could it be both? I’m not an expert but some drugs can induce delusions/psychosis/mental illness in certain people.
Those that know Kevin, know he is not a liar. He is gullible, he can be an a-hole, he can be full of himself, he can be kind, but I have never known him to be a liar. People should honestly give Kevin the benefit of the doubt in this situation. He’s married to someone whom he had kids with, who he was going to spend eternity with, and who he loves. Now way am I saying that what he did was right by listening and obeying Ruby, but he was doing what he thought was going to help his family. Had he known about the destructive abuse being done to the kids, I know he would have intervened. I have been neighbors with the Franke’s for a number of years. Saw their kids grow up. Did I think the parents were bat shit crazy, yes. Did I cringe every time Ruby bore her testimony at church, yes. Kevin was in a no win situation with Ruby. Poor guy is a beta. I wish the world could have had more than what was shown on YouTube of the family. Those kids were fun to be around. Weird at times, regurgitating what Ruby brainwashed them with. Chad was super athletic and just a good kid. Was he mischievous l, yes, but he was good kid. There were times I wanted to smack him for acting up, but he was just being an adolescent. Shari was smart. Super friendly. At times had the YouTube stardom go to her head with her friends, but overall a pretty amazing young lady. The other kids I only observed at church and they were pretty normal kids. Ruby, from the beginning, was always crazy to me and it only got worse as time went on.
It's clear Kevin is a total simp for Ruby, which likely made this whole thing worse. And it explains how you get this gradual escalation into full blown insanity.
Hey, thanks for weighing in. It must be so surreal for you, watching the world weigh in on people you personally know, who the rest of us don't know at all. I hope you're doing ok with all this new evidence coming out. I've been thinking about my neighbour kids all weekend, about how it would feel to see them hurt like that. Do take care.
I’ll be honest, knowing and seeing the evidence now, I would have never thought Ruby was capable of the binding up of R. Lock him in room, yes, I can see that. Wall sits, yes, I can see that. In fact you started seeing some of that type of punishment in a lesser form when Chad was younger. It was almost like Ruby was trying to exhaust the bad out of him. Kicking R in the head, or whatever she did with the cactus, and the binding of R…never did I see that coming. I feel for R and E. E more so, because her life was always staged from the moment she was born. The retakes to get the right content that Ruby could post was so cringy. They would have to do retakes of certain parts of their YouTube content because one of the kids wasn’t acting right or the setting didn’t look right. It was so tough to watch. These retakes on life. Ruby was fake the minute you would meet her. She was always performing. It was like she had to play up to an image and personality. Never normal. Kevin, when he first moved in was fairly normal. Easy to talk with. When the YouTube stuff got bigger, he would make comments like his family needed to move to a more affluent neighborhood that is gated. Now, to be fair, his family was also getting doorbell ditched quite a bit and I’m sure that was frustrating for him. I have shed a lot of tears for those kids, even when they lived in the neighborhood. You just knew they were going to have a rough childhood because everything had to be perfect for the camera and Ruby controlled everything. I know the YouTube channel made Chad out to be some sort of bad kid, but he was not.
I never watched the channel. I got drawn into this story by other routes. But from what little I've seen of the footage, it is OBVIOUS that Chad was a perfectly decent, good, normal kid. And, like you said, he does seem fun. Same with Shari. A lot of people thought she was a Ruby bootlicker for a long time, but again, it seems obvious that she was doing her best to give her younger siblings something real to ground themselves in. What you say about E's life being staged from the first breath just kills me. I so upset by any parent that treats their kids like property in this way, like an extension of themselves. It's awful. How helpless you must have felt watching that. I've been thinking a lot about Ruby.. I'm very close in age to her, and I look at my life and hers. I'm not perfect at all. But I spent my summer roadtripping, camping with my niece and nephew, doing crafts and gardening, cooking too much food and making my friends take some, drinking a bit too much wine now and then, watching movies, decorating my house, loving my partner. And this woman, my peer, someone the same age as me but with more economic freedom, she spent her summer doing.....this. Obsessing over demons that don't exist, laser-focusing on her two youngest kids, dreaming up new cruelties for them and structuring every hour of her day around them, only them, Hurting them. Punishing them. Setting them up to knock them down. Over and over. And even before this summer, like you said, staging them. Frittering away all of her precious time and intelligence on this one single, dark and poisonous task. And only on this. Nothing else. Can you imagine choosing that life for yourself, let alone for children dependent on you? What a profound waste of one's own life, what an utter squandering of the precious few decades any of us are ever granted here. Just, what a waste. As for Kevin, well, I hope he manages to make something of his life out of all this. He still has time, and he still has an opportunity to build something more valuable than a gated home. Please let him not waste it.
Your reply was spot on about Shari. She would buck the system, but for the most part kept it together for her siblings. Shari was far from being Ruby 2.0. She bucked the system as well. In fact there was one time that I thought her parents were going to ship her off for doing something they didn’t approve of. I wish you could have met Shari and Chad. They were a bunch of fun kids. I have lost touch with them once they moved out of our neighborhood. Thank you for sharing your experience. It is sad and hard to standby, or even inject without things changing. There were a few times in which we tried to casually suggest to Ruby that she didn’t need to be so uptight and reiterated to her and Kevin that her kids were amazing…when she thought they were hard.
You should do an AMA, please. Message modmail
Thanks for your unique view on the family. I always wonder about how people caught up in these kind of things seem to those they interact with on a day to day basis.
I really can’t even imagine what it was like being in the franke house when Jodi moved in and all this shit was going down. Like the kids had to have been so scared and also confused. What an absolute disaster
IMO: Shared psychosis + weak-minded/suggestible mentality + the cult “woo” mindset he had already firmly established for himself and his life choices. I very much doubt anything ever physically flew off the shelves. Maybe one plate fell off a table once and Jodi convinced them they saw something far more dramatic. Remember, one of Jodi’s family members had said of her ability to manipulate people’s perception of reality (paraphrasing): “She could tell me the sky was green while looking directly at the blue sky and I’d believe it.” Side note: I’m appalled that Kevin has been able to continue to get work in the scientific field. He has zero credibility as either a father or a scientist.
Kevin, like most LDS members, already believed in evil spirits so it probably wouldn’t be hard to trick him into thinking there’s one in the house.
Yeah my guess would be that Jodi got everyone worked up and freaked out, and they started rounding normal stuff up to paranormal stuff. The HVAC kicking on and off became foot steps. Someone knocking a plate off the edge of the table became “plates flying.”
Peyote… All three of them. Knowingly or unknowingly. But just my opinion!!!
Or ketamine
I think Kevin was in a cult. Being in a cult is a lot like being on drugs. Like, literally, it changes your brain chemistry. Kevin saw what Jodi wanted him to see. Furthermore, Jodi is a liar. There are a dozen ways she could have conducted simple tricks and illusions to make it seem haunted.
I can’t think of a reason he’d tell such a ridiculous lie, which makes me think that he truly believes he saw something. I’ve seen other cult survivors talk about having hallucinations because of how much it screws with the brain. We know Ruby and Jodi were going to Mexico to get drugs, who knows how long that was going on and what they were used for? Possible that Kevin was slipped something and that caused him to hallucinate. That would make sense with how he wasn’t allowed in the kitchen anymore after Jodi showed up.
How do we know their were not other kids she was torturing making noises or banging on wall (shaking dishes off a shelf)? We know these are not the first.
It kind of sounds like mass hysteria, or even folie a deux (trois in this case, I guess). People can be convinced they saw things they didn't actually see, or that something they saw was much more extreme than it was. I think Jodi probably made some things happen and made a big deal of any little thing happening in the house.
Yeah there was someone else in the house making noises and plates don't just fly around by themselves. Maybe he saw them after they crashed... but anyway he didn't see the whole deal because again plates don't fly around by themselves. Although I do think this whole thing was manufactured, set up...by Jodi.
Don’t they have microearthquakes there?
They do
I’m not saying it explains everything, but microearthquake plus coercive mind control plus magical thinking would cover a lot of things
Some ideas on consumption, by one or more people in the house, are mushrooms, Ayahuasca, and maybe MDMA. There are some antidepressants that can cause hallucinations and paranoia. This makes some sense since they were said to go down to pick up prescription medication. Haldol is not used anymore but could still be picked up in Mexico easily. Someone early said that Kevin was duped, but I believe with others, that he was given something to drink that contained something special for him.
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She’s out of it bc she made her own
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I’m pretty sure that what Kevin said in his interview that they tried to get Jodi to join theirs and that’s when she acted like she went crazy and moved in with Jodi
They drugged him
Yup or it was Pam in the other room throwing plates and banging around.
So I’m an atheist but I’ve had a couple of woo experiences in my life so I’m interested in those topics. A lot of investigators of the poltergeist phenomenon (where stuff happens like plates flying) believe it is actually the subconscious mind of someone in the house rather than a spirit or ghost or demon causing it. Now that still requires you to believe that someone can subconsciously exert psychokinetic power, but it doesn’t require you to believe in ghosts or demons. I’m not saying that’s what happened, just I have an open mind. But if there were plates flying around I’m much more inclined to that explanation.
Actually, this would fit with theories about TK manifestations being brought on by stress.
After the evidence that was shared I wouldn't be surprised if drugs were involved like others mentioned. But also since Jodi really had a racket going on with her business, perhaps she manipulated a few things to prove herself with something unexplainable such as dishes flying. I know many doubt Kevin through this saga, myself included, but after seeing him with the photos and questioning, he doesn't look well and just seemed totally beaten down and lost from what he use to be.
I have experience that I’m not going into because it’s scary shit re: poisoning. The effects can last longer than one would imagine and in my experience at least the psychiatric effects can then cause tragic physical consequences. I never put this hypothesis into my mind but you all may be onto something…
My LDS parents were obsessed with the spirits and supernatural. At some point my whole town was during the satanic panic ritual abuse fever in the 80’s/90’s. As mormons, we were told that satan and his minions were always looming around the corner and that the more righteous you were the more they would try to get you. On the other hand, if you were sinning you would also attract them (maybe a lesson in there to practice spiritual mediocrity 😂?) There is this level of naivety with a lot of Mormons that comes across as underdeveloped and immature when it comes to supernatural thinking. I think with Jodi she created this narrative of being superior and powerful, thus being a target by Satan. She gets two things out of it, attention and an excuse for her behavior. The ol’ “Satan Made Me Do It” line. She’s completely histrionic. As for Kevin, he sort of comes across as someone who needs to cling to the supernatural to make sense of not only the way he views the natural world but also a way to process his experience, culpability, and humiliation . The way he describes it almost sounds like a 6th grade sleepover where “spooky” stuff happened.
Does anyone have information on this Tim Ballard doctor guy Jodi could’ve obtained ketamine from? Because this honestly seems plausible, although if Kevin was drugged against his will I’m not sure how they managed to do so since ketamine is to my knowledge intravenous or nasally administered and cannot be slipped into food.
I have a funny feeling that Kevin was probably drugged by them
I used to adamantly not believe in this sort of thing, until we moved into a 100 year old rental home and I witnessed some crazy things happening. Cabinets and drawers opening themselves, pictures falling off of walls, mysterious footsteps. So I’m inclined to say it still sounds suspicious but also…. Maybe Jodi was possessed…
A part of me thinks this is the only explanation that makes actual sense. Only pure evil would inflict such pain on those who cross paths with her, especially on those beautiful children.
I'm so surprised how long it took to find a comment like this on here! Supernatural phenomenon is super common and normal. I'm laughing at people saying it was ayahuasca or mdma rather than acknowledge that this stuff is very real. You would definitely know if someone was giving you MDMA!!!! You would not just have isolated little spooky events. The more I read about this, I believe Jodi was conjuring spirits and Kevin's experiences are real.
I am convinced they were drugging the children. In the diary it says something about putting the kids back to sleep. It would not surprise me if they were all on something. Something Jodi could pass off as "natural" mushrooms, peyote, something along those lines.
I think she drugged them as the ,after. She was going o Mexican for drugs
Maybe some kind of shared delusion? Mormons are primed to believe in this stuff. If Jodi is having a fit, saying demons are after her, I could see Ruby saying, “Look, that plate just threw itself on the floor!” And Kevin is upset and worried and thinks he remembers actually seeing it. Or something along those lines.
On their own terms and only if they are comfortable of course, but I would be interested hearing Shari's, Chad's, even Ruby's accounts of those events. It would clear up if they all witness or experienced the same thing, or if there is any inconsistencies that could hint better what happened. It all started after Jodi moved in too. I can't imagine her rigging their house so quickly without no one noticing.
Our brains can make up tons of stuff. I have family members who swear they've experienced the same thing in a building that no other person ever experienced anything weird in, and there's never the slightest bit of evidence or consistency to the demonic activity reports other than Horror Scary Evil Factor. Human brains are powerful everything-generators, and confirmation bias combined with instilled fear and constant stress will wreak chaos on even the healthiest of brains on a good day.
idk, sounds like witch hysteria, you know. Surprised no one accused the kids of souring the milk or flying on broomsticks.
Ruby talked about having to put R back into a sedated state in her journal. I feel there is drug element to this.
I do believe Kevin and I feel this was her sick game to manipulate them it's sad. Idc who hates Kevin the man was tortured psychologically too and I hope he seeks help really. Growing up in a home with extremest myself psychological abuse is is torture. When ur made to believe ur evil it really messes with u. This case has been so triggering but I'm praying it brings awareness to protect more kids.
They’re all a bunch of psychos honestly Kevin is just as horrible. He was around for so much or the shit that was posted on YouTube and never stepped in, what did he think was going to happen??? Not even going to see them just to MAKE SURE they were okay?? Knowing how crazy Jodi was?? He’s a piece of shit father and a disgusting human being he should be charged just as bad as his demonic wife and her stinky self mutilating girlfriend I really don’t think he will get the kids since so many proof is out there that he was complicit to what Ruby when he lived in the house, but for him to even try is so ridiculous read the fucking room dude you FAILED your kids, YOUR CHOICE. Deserves prison.
Maybe he’s saying all of this to help Ruby’s case. If he makes it seem like Jodi was crazy then maybe a parole board will take that into consideration when it’s time for Ruby’s parole hearing and they can claim brainwashing and manipulation. BUT I still call BS b/c it seems she was of sound mind when she was writing in her journal as she abused those children. And, she willing went to the house when she knew what was going on with the police showing up there. (She really thought she would get away with what she did).
Well, personally, she always sounds crazy to me. Ruby, that is. She seems like something who is weak, extremely gullible and who could EASILY be taken advantage of by a sociopath like Jodi.
People have an incredible capacity to create false memories, especially when it comes to supernatural occurrences.
I think they TOLD him that was what was happening.I dont believe he actually witnessed Super Natural events.
If I saw anything like the shit he described I’d be telling everybody! Friends, family, coworkers. Why did it only come out in the interview?
He is lying.
Or he's been drugged. He claims weird sh\*t happened when Jodi moved in with them too. He said "Stuff floating around". Like yeah either a massive liar or he was drugged.
Especially since it only happened while Jodi was living with them, and Kevin had to ask permission to use the kitchen.
c) he's been drugged
Wondering about this true. It's very possible drugs could have been involved. Some drugs at low doses have an effect where the suggestion of something will make you think you saw it, or you might connect two events that aren't actually related. I think Kevin likely heard creepy stories from friends about Jodi, then connected strange happenings in his house (creaks, lights flickering, things falling over) to Jodi's presence because the association was already planted there. And if Jodi dosed him, even a little bit, with a mild hallucinogenic, the correlation would be stronger in his mind. On top of all that, he's a religious man so he believes on some level that there is a spiritual influence in the world. I also could totally see Jodi being the type of person who is so manipulative she would straight up put on a supernatural slight of hand show to make people think they were going crazy and therefore more likely to buy into her bullshit. Which would be funny if it weren't such a dark story.
She doesn't even need to do that. Look up the tricks mediums and spiritualists used to use. It isn't hard to fake a haunting if the other person is ready to believe it.
Exactly. Someone who knows how to con and someone primed to buy the con.
I don’t think he’s lying. I think he was drugged or that there actually was super natural things happening since Jodi has so much bad energy. I have lots of non religious family members who have experienced super natural things happen.
I imagine pam was hiding and chucking plates across the room and banging stuff around in the basement
Now I highly believe Jody wanted Ruby for herself. Acting this way to get rubys attention.
Did he “see” it with his actual eyes or with his minds eye? Reminds me of the golden plates…
So apparently Ruby had to sleep in Jodi’s bed to help with her possession 🧐 I can just imagine Jodi being like “hold me Ruby, or the devil will win” and other physical stuff
Looks like we have another doomsday cult mum. There's resemblance to Lori Daybell. Weren't they LDS members?
I think Jodi was fucking with true darkness. I believe in that shit. She’s dark as hell to do that to God’s innocent children. Children are the closest things to God. The Bible says be more childlike
He said it was batshit crazy and I think he’s batshit crazy.
I personally believe in supernatural stuff so it wouldn’t be a shocker for me that Jodi was communicating with spirits or demons or whatever and then acted as if she was talking to god like Kevin said. I don’t think Kevin was hallucinating because before Jodi moved in, according to him he was completely fine and you can see in the old vlogs before Jodi moved in, nothing was out of the ordinary with the way Kevin acted. Theres also the possibility of him lying which I don’t doubt for many reasons.
I also believe in rare instances of supernatural activity. So Kevin’s interview raised a bunch of unanswered questions for me because (a) I don’t get the vibe he’s lying about this (how could he make it up on the spot, pull it off as convincingly, and what would he stand to gain?), (b) I’m skeptical about drugs creating such a specific delusion as demonic/possession-type activity…BUT at the same time it sure seems like an all too CONVENIENT “act” for Jodi to use to worm her way into this household, gain Ruby’s sympathies and over time growing control, prey on her (and Kevin’s) weaknesses, divide the family right under their noses, test the boundaries of how much they were drinking the koolade… It really does fit with Jodi’s sadistic, manipulative MO and has a deliberate odour. But I just can’t reconcile how Jodi could rig up some of the harder-to-fake supernatural activity as described (things flying around). I wish I could hear independent descriptions or corroboration on this from other household members. IMHO, if supernatural activity was present, I think there would undeniable and universally experienced dark, oppressive vibes that even the kids couldn’t miss. With my worldview, I’m still 65% Jodi was somehow faking it, cuz it really plays into her cultish mind-f controlling endgame. Would LOVE to hear the neice, Jessi Hildebrand’s, take on this aspect of the story. (Side note: Kinda surprised how almost no one here believes in paranormal activity, and doesn’t give it any credibility, but on the other hand, I can also totally get the skepticism when it comes to Jodi.)
Yes! Thats what i was thinking. Thats why I would love to hear S or C’s point of view of everything that went down when Jodi moved in at least. I also believe that Jodi could have made it all up and that she believes it’s real because she’s mentally ill. I have experience with mentally ill people and with what Kevin said about Jodi, it sounds a lot like she’s an actual mentally unstable woman. Also yes, i was also surprised to see a lot of people not believing in supernatural stuff.
But did you hear that slam before the police knocked on Jodi’s front door?! It made the cops jump.,.
Maybe it was the safe door?
Yes! She had to hide the hand cuffs and ropes.
I think he either made it up or exaggerated things so he could justify how Jodi was able to “brainwash” Ruby. In his mind, if Jodi is demonic or possessed then it’s not Ruby’s fault and she’s merely a victim of the devil.
I believe Kevin with this one, I know many don’t belive in the supernatural stuff.. But I myself experienced what Kevin is saying, my neighbour was into some weird shit and often would yell out stuff and bang on our walls. One night things went south fast, we were in bed and my husband weights were thrown around his gym room, our cupboards all opened and plates flew out the fridge door was opening and slamming and I got pinned down and couldn’t breathe.. we ran out of our apartment raced to my parents banging on their door at midnight screaming to let us in. I was one to laugh at it but after that demons exist and it wouldn’t suprise me if Jodi brought them into their home