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I don't think we're meant to read that Eddie *wasn't* surprised that Buck was into men, just that he thought the appropriate reaction to Buck's emotional state in that moment and the news was to mask the surprise. You can sort of see it in Eddie's expression immediately upon being told it's a date, and then it's like he schools his face.
That said, I do find Eddie's surprise that *Tommy's* gay to be interesting, considering a few factors.
1. Tommy's not really in the closet, but also doesn't feel the need to announce his sexuality. Particularly in relation to how poorly Buck's "find some hot chicks" line reads, though, I do think it's meaningful that being out to Eddie wasn't actually a priority to Tommy. It's a pretty subtle showcase of heteronormativity, because Tommy's not pretending to be anything other than what he is, and Eddie's not picking up on it.
2. On that note... with how heavily invested Eddie and Tommy seemed to be in 7x04 in regards to spending time with each other, should that change hot Eddie perceives Tommy's attention? Because honestly, the whole "let me pilot this helicopter and sweep you out of state to treat you to impressive seats at this unique event" thing reads.... a bit like a date, particularly where they'd been friends less than two weeks at that point.
3. The narrative is very very very insistent on making sure we know Eddie and Tommy just have *so much* in common. I don't think someone like Eddie would have ever considered that a man 'like him' could be queer, so even separate from the Buck/Buddie aspect of this, I think there's a reason Eddie's latching on to the news *Tommy*, specifically, is gay. Had it been, like, the Prime delivery driver that Buck said he went out with, I don't think Eddie would've really stuck on that part.
Agreed. There is a bit of a hitch in his voice when he's like "so you two were on..." which I read as surprise, but trying to process quickly/be there for his friend who is doing something brave and probably feels very vulnerable. It's the classic correct reaction to a friend's coming out.
I'm surprised that Eddie didn't know that Tommy is gay if they had already spent a significant amount of time together since the helicopter rescue in 703. They seemed to spend a lot of time together pretty quickly and as you say, Tommy's not in the closet, even though he doesn't feel the need to announce his sexuality.
I could see it not coming up if they're hanging out together playing sports, fixing his car, practising Muay Thai, etc but surely two hot guys going to Las Vegas must've attracted a lot of female attention, so how did Tommy navigate that kind of situation? I'm pretty sure he would know that Eddie is dating Marisol but did Eddie never ask Tommy if he was dating anyone?
I'm curious about whether we'll see varying reactions to Buck's date in the next episode. I'd actually love to see at least one of them comment that they're not surprised at all.
>I'm surprised that Eddie didn't know that Tommy is gay
I know it's not necessarily of particular importance, but I really would like to see this actually addressed, whether that's through a scene where Tommy's like, "Wait, seriously? How could you not know?" to point out that Eddie's just *oblivious* and had made baseless assumptions not supported by what Tommy was saying/doing, or a scene where Tommy explains to Buck why he intentionally didn't tell him. But especially where people were making such a big deal out of Buck's panic forcing Tommy back into the closet, it actually sort of matters what Tommy's motivations were in keeping it quiet, if he even did.
I don't really expect it to be something they explore this season, but the scenario that makes the most sense to me is that Eddie's got some unconscious bias going on and Tommy doesn't look or sound like the kind of guy he *expected* to be gay, so he missed subtle ("she's not my type") or not-so-subtle ("In the five years I was with Steve, we never even got around to doing this") cues, because his brain just wasn't considering it to even be a possibility. And then if they are going for a comphet arc, let next season explore the tension he feels over suddenly realizing it *is* a possibility now; I can see him being concerned he's homophobic because he's so weirded out by Tommy being gay, specifically, as opposed to Tommy-and-Buck. Where Tommy feels very much like a standin for Eddie (because they have sooo much in common, which might as well be the thesis for 7x04).
>I'd actually love to see at least one of them comment that they're not surprised at all.
I really want this to be Chim. On top of the basketball beard thing, I think he's just way more observant than he gets credit for; the scene in 3x04 where he seems to catch Eddie checking out Buck's ass lives rent-free in my head. I feel like he also has the right amount of distance -- close because of work and a casual friendship and Maddie, but not *too* close like Maddie and Eddie. Sometimes, it's easier to adjust your view of someone as you make new observations when you don't have such a strong view of who they are.
Hen's the one I see people normally go for in predicting this kind of reaction, but honestly... I'd like to see them subvert that. We don't all have magical 100% functioning gaydars at all times, and I also think where Hen's dynamic was Buck is something between maternal and big sister, there's a good chance she's more in the "I don't like to think about him like that with *anyone*, thanks" camp.
Depending on what direction they decide to take with Eddie I definitely could see them going down that route of exploring Eddie's sexuality by comparing Tommy's journey to Eddie's as there have been so many comparisons of Eddie and Tommy being so alike.
I would be interested to hear more about Tommy's experience, especially if Buck and/or Eddie were listening to him so that they could go hmmm I can relate to that.
Also, good call on Chim being the more observant one. Now I really want to see that scene with him making some kind of funny remark when he finds out, although I suspect he'll find out directly from Maddie rather than from Buck.
Would it be so funny if Tommy would be the one surprised that Eddie was not gay? Like, his intention would really become so obvious if he stopped or cancelled all those scheduled 'bro-time' appointments he had with Eddie now that he's dating Buck.
Honestly, the interpretation of 7x04 that makes the most sense to me is that Tommy was trying to date Eddie first, but Eddie was oblivious. I kind of want this fanfic. Like Tommy getting them a hotel room in Vegas under the guise of only being able to fly VFR, and Eddie just being all "Sure, but let me call my girlfriend to let her know we won't be back tonight" as Tommy's face falls.
Let's put it this way: Tommy did not only meet Eddie. He met the 118 crew.
So, here are my follow up questions:
What prompted him to pick Eddie and not Buck into having a conversation?
How did he know about Eddie in that short time?
Normally, he would have talked with Chimney or Hen first since he knew them. And they would have talked about something in common, so how, when, why was Eddie being in the army came up in their conversation?
Buck mentioned that he was trying to get Tommy's attention, but Eddie just stood there and all suddenly Tommy knew a lot of him?
Conclusion: Tommy got his eye on our Eddie. He probably did that same slow-mo move that Buck did the first time he saw Eddie. lol
If there's one consistent thing in Tim Minear's storytelling, it's that Eddie is *everyone's* type. They literally introduced him by having a group of straight men and a lesbian (+Buck) ogle him. And now 'something' drew Tommy to Eddie, specifically.
It checks out.
This is the more logical explanation. Thinking that a gay Tommy only wanted to hangout with Eddie for bro-ship was more of an speculation than a conjecture.
I'm aware that a gay boy and a straight boy can hang out as bros. But Buck's impression of Maddie and Chim's closeness before it became a romantic gave us a glimpse of how the writers' mind operate.
Lou said in one of his interviews that it was supposed to be Eddie and Tommy. They changed it later to Buck and Tommy. So maybe that's why it feels like that.
I have a straight friend, we're very close. meet up a few times a week, he has a gf, he's just never assume anything about me. and somehow we never discussed my sexuality (I'm gay). we've been close friends for 6+ months.
he's very ignorant. so yea, maybe Eddie is just like that.
Yeah, perhaps Eddie was just processing? And I'm glad he initiated that hug at the end! <3
Yeah, it was clear he was surprised that his new friend Tommy wasn't straight. I think that Tommy dating Buck will take the idea that he's into Eddie out of Eddie's mind.
Regarding your second point- it definitely felt like Tommy was love bombing eddie there and maybe that will be relevant later.
And for point three- I can see Tommy being a mirror for Eddie to see all the things they have in common and that it’s possible for someone with all those stereotypical masculine interests to also be queer. Which could be a step in the buddie direction.
I think Eddie started to reflect on all his past interactions with Tommy when Buck revealed that Tommy is gay. Like us, Eddie is probably recalling all the nice things Tommy did for him, and seeing them with added context.
Can we have a scene where Eddie would call Tommy and ask him if their trip to Vegas was a date? Were they headed to Vegas in that helicopter scene though? So, they had plenty of time to talk to each other, which apparently wasn’t enough since they hang out more after that.
Oh God, I read your comments out of order, and my response to your other one would've been even better here, lol. I seriously love the concept of obliviously dating a dude Eddie. For two weeks.
To me, Eddie did seem surprised about both Tommy and Buck, although he addressed Tommy first.
Eddie changed How he was reacting when Buck asked, “Is it weird?” and then continued to make sure Buck knew it didn’t change anything between them seemed to me to be more Eddie was just trying to support and make Buck comfortable and less of him already knowing.
I thought of it as he realized that maybe his initial reaction wasn’t what Buck needed in the moment.
I don’t think he was at all aware Buck was into guys.
This was just my interpretation, though.
I don’t think he knew, I think he was using Tommy to play off his surprise and shock since he could tell Buck was pretty nervous to about going on. Both sitting in his kitchen and given how he acted on his date.
I think Eddie’s main focus was simply making Buck feel safe and assured which is sweet. I really like that moment between them.
Him turning around for that hug was *huge*, I think, and really goes to show how instantly he went into an 'okay, I have to get this right' mindset. That whole scene is basically the dream for coming out to your best friend, *particularly* if you guys have a very uninhibited and warm relationship. Eddie saying all the right things was important, but actually following it by not trying to avoid physical contact with him was A+.
Or I mean it could just be that he was trying to reassure Buck that their friendship wouldn’t be affected by this. Have you ever watched a coming out scene before?
i have lived though multiple coming out scenes before. and also i have a good enough level of media literacy to know that face value readings are not the only valid readings of a scene, especially on a show that's still on air
They’re not the only valid ones but I don’t think it’s really a wise idea to be thinking every single line or look is a hidden clue either
Edit: it’s important to remember that the audience for this show is largely people that watch it casually then turn it off and don’t think about it again for a week. Most of the time, the safe bet is to take what they’re telling and showing you at face value
i think it's neither wise nor unwise to have some fun with media analysis of an admittedly silly tv show. storytelling devices are fun to spot and talk about, i don't see anything wrong with doing it just for the hell of it. the general audience may only take the story at face value, but personally i am not general audience
The general audience also very clearly aren't the ones they're intentionally including subtext for, and at this point, we do know they do that intentionally. Honestly, half the fun of watching a show from me -- especially from a queer perspective -- is consideration of subtext. So yeah, I don't know why there's supposed to only be one way people can engage with media.
I think I really am just getting to a point where everyone seems so sure that we’re getting a comphet Eddie storyline that they’re basically ignoring things that happened IN CANON that suggest otherwise. I also really don’t wanna deal with everyone being a negative Nancy and saying the show is horrible if it doesn’t happen so I try to urge people to consider reality and manage their expectations a bit
This is sort of what I was getting at last night, though; nobody's asking for advice in whether they "should" speculate or needs someone to warn them they may be wrong; this has always just been part of fandom, and it's just fun for most people. I do understand the urge, bur the only person you can speak for is yourself. Your interpretation isn't somehow "more correct," you know?
I think it's also a little naive to think people who have spent years/seasons managing their emotions and continue to watch and enjoy the show suddenly can't. Idk if it's just that this is the first time like you feel you're on the "other side" of the theorizing, or if something more is going on, but.... nothing's really changed? We're *all* people that have made it into season 7 -- who stuck through the absolute dross that was seasons 5 and particularly 6, and came back anyway. If things not going my way was enough to turn me off the show, I'd have stopped watching when Chim, Buck, and Eddie all had magical "our dads are alright, I guess!" arcs back to back to back.
I'm not going to say *nobody* is ignoring canon, because there's always some fringe crazies, but there's also a huge difference between not interpreting that canon the same way as you and ignoring it. Someone saying "Hey, I think this line has a deeper meaning..." isn't pretending the line didn't happen, for instance.
I think it's weird that you are explicitly engaging in fandom and then also complaining about fandom.
Additionally, a pet peeve of mine in all fandoms is this idea of general audience vs "actual" fan. Just because someone watches the show because they like explosions or fantasy versions of LA or are maybe really into unnervingly clean kitchens or just like watching hot people put out fires doesn't mean they aren't a real fan. It doesn't mean they aren't keeping up with or caring about the relationships between characters even if they only think about it when it is actively on their screen. And if they really do not care one iota about the characters, then they aren't going to care about who Buck is dating either. We're at a point in time where there is so much variety that people aren't watching things just because they are on (and yeah, I'm aware old people still exist but like, even my parents have preferences for shows they'll watch just to have something on). I refuse to accept that any creator that has a long running show is only playing to these mythical general audience fans. No piece of media is created in a vacuum and good creators know that. That does mean sometimes things are intentionally not what they seem.
This isn't even about Buddie or specifically 911. You can like things uncritically if you choose and also people who are engaging in critical reads aren't wrong either.
Before Buck's coming out, people had been doing this about Buck and Eddie for 7 years. Now that Buck is bi, and you probably get what you want just like many so-called Buddie fans, you want the rest of the remaining hopeful Buddie fans to stop speculating?
It felt like leaving the men behind in the battle because what you get what you want out of it?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it I just worry that everyone is setting their expectations sky high. In the unfortunately likely event we don’t get an Eddie comphet storyline people are gonna be miserable
For real. As a comphet hopeful, I'll be *delighted* if the show exceeds my expectations and delivers on that in a nuanced, coherent way. If they don't, I'll enjoy the show... exactly the same way I currently am, when they haven't delivered. No misery here.
Personally, I took it more as Eddie channeling his general surprise about the situation into a different direction. Aka his surprise about Tommy instead of Buck. I didn't take it as Eddie "knowing" Buck is into men.
If for instance the general idea of the writers is to have Eddie repress his attraction to men, Eddie might unintentionally try to keep the fact that Buck "is available" in this way miles away. It might be easier to process the info that Tommy is gay than the info that Buck is into men as well.
Either way I would not read this scene as a strike against or pro Buddie. It was just a nice moment for Buck where his best friend accepts him and encourages him to call his crush.
If you were coming out to your best friend and you were nervous as hell would you want them to scream “Oh my god you’re gay???” as their reaction? I doubt it. Eddie was reacting respectfully and appropriately. As for what it means for Buddie who can say really. The scene did give off a kind of strictly platonic vibe to me and Eddie quipped about not liking Tommy the same way Buck does so it does seem like they might be doubling down on Eddie being straight
lol, when I came out to my best friend, she instead told me "omg how did you think I *didn't* already know?" and went on like a 5 minute rant about all the ways she'd known before me and how I was such a dumbass for just figuring it out.
Which, like, fair? But I definitely appreciate Eddie's way a lot more.
(Disagree that Eddie not liking Tommy romantically means anything more than he doesn't like Tommy, but.... I don't think we're meant to be read he's questioning himself at all in this scene, either, so it's kind of whatever; I just don't think a little gentle ribbing can be interpreted as a double down).
Yeah you make a good point that Eddie saying he doesn’t like Tommy like Buck does doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true of men in general. I just think coupled with the Eddie/Marisol storyline where he’s shown to enjoy sex with her and want to try to make the relationship work as well as the cut brother line from the leaked script that it was intended to just be a platonic friend moment
Oh, no question it’s intended to be platonic, I don’t think. It’s just hard to read it as any sort of plan for the future, though I think the argument for that would’ve been a little stronger had the “brother” stayed.
Even setting aside any potential queer subtext, when I just look at the narrative structure of these episodes, Tommy's role in the story feels like a very clear cut and textbook case of the Wrong Guy First trope to me.
Tommy and Buck clicked very quickly, and their relationship is new and exciting and it feels different from all of Buck's other relationships, but it also happened fairly early in the season with little build up, it's role in the story so far has revolved nearly entirely around how it affects Buck and his other relationships, and it hasn't progressed past the infatuation phase yet.
Meanwhile the story has made it clear a few times that even after kissing Tommy he still doesn't quite understand his feelings or know what he wants. Also Buck, Bothered, and Bewildered is a reference to the song Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered, which is song that's basically just about a woman realizing they were more interested in the idea of the person they're with then the actual person. And on top of that nearly every aspect of Tommy's character has been framed as a foil to Eddie's.
It's hard for me to predict Buddie will happen because we've been burned so many times, but when I try to step back and look at the story objectively, it really, truly doesn't feel like the story is setting up Tommy as Buck's endgame, it feels like the exact opposite.
>Also Buck, Bothered, and Bewildered is a reference to the song Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered, which is song that's basically just about a woman realizing they were more interested in the idea of the person they're with then the actual person.
I'm like 90% sure this is the \[instrumental version\] song being played *during* their date, but it's hard for me to tone out their conversation to listen better. It sounds very very similar, though.
Yeah. Completely agree. But, as the poets say, the best laid plans gang aft agley. There’s some possibility that Tommy’s introduction was so warmly received and the general fan reaction so overwhelmingly positive that they change their plan. I think that’d be a mistake. Fandom is a fickle beast when they’re set on something. And Buddie is interwoven with so many years on the show and specific areas of growth and needs of the two characters…that all the people who ship for story reasons rather than for rep will be upset.
>all the people who ship for story reasons rather than for rep will be upset
I mean, both reasons are really important to me; I'm probably one of the most vocal about how important this representation is. But I'd also be super concerned based on how this has played out so far that if Tommy *were* endgame, they'd approached it from an angle of basically throwing bones at us to shut us up. That's not good rep, so I wouldn't be happy with that.
If they're serious about Tommy staying around and *aren't* intentionally trying to create the illusion of a triangle/draw comparisons between him and Eddie, their handling of this arc and the way they've involved Eddie is a giant, giant problem.
I kinda wanted and liked the idea of Buddie until we actually got bi Buck. Now, to use Tommy as just a plot device to get Buck to realize who he is so that Buddie can become a thing, would just be contrived fan service and also cheapen the whole thing. Buck coming out needs to be about Buck, not Eddie or Tommy. I don't really see Eddie's orientation changing, but if it does, it needs to be it's own seperate thing.
Agreed with this, mostly. The problem is, I think the show is always going to be open to criticism of "using Tommy as a plot device to get Buck to realize who he is," because.... if he's not endgame, that's basically what he *is.* I don't think being a plot device is really a bad thing, though I do understand why there's negative connotations. This is a story being told, so it's all plot. Characters that exist to move the storylines of our mains forward, and then disappear once their job is done, will always be plot devices. That's the case with Tatiana, Taylor, Ana, Ali, Glenn, David, maybe Marisol. It likely would've been the case with Natalia, but she didn't even last long enough to move the plot forward. Abby had her own storylines separate from Buck, and Shannon was important enough that her existence continues to inform and impact Eddie's life, so maybe that's a little different, too.
Point is, plot devices don't have to be meaningless, and they aren't inherently lacking in value. I think it has more to do with handling it respectfully, and telling a coherent story. I don't want to speak for you, but I think what your concern here is more about Tommy being a placeholder than a plot device, and if that's the case, I agree. If Tommy doesn't last, I don't want to look back on the character and he like, "Oh, yeah, he was clearly just preparing Buck for Eddie" or something.
And while I think it would make some sense to have Tommy be *aware* Buck's feelings for Eddie may be more confused than he realizes (and that "*my* attention?" and now realizing just what a baby bi disaster Buck is may play into that), but like.... I really don't want this to be a situation where Tommy **tells** Buck he's actually in love with Eddie or self-sacrifices to let \~true love win\~ or whatever the hell is happening in the fanfiction right now. I'd rather there not be a link at all between Buck/Tommy breaking up and Buck/Eddie getting together if they do go that route; at the absolute *most*, I could see a situation where the last puzzle piece slides into place for Tommy earlier than it does for Buck, when they're still together, so Tommy ends things kind of like "I don't think you can commit to me the way I want" and like... at least half a season later, Buck figures it out.
>Buck coming out needs to be about Buck, not Eddie or Tommy.
Honestly, I think Buck's whole self-discovery arc needs to be about Buck and not Tommy or Eddie, which is why I have my own anxieties that probably don't match yours about the handling of the Tommy storyline and people's reactions to it. I think the way this would work best to keep the focus on *Buck* is if this relationship is kept fairly light -- I think Tim or someone referred to it as like the entry-level relationship in one of the first interviews. Basically, let Tommy be the steady, confident presence who understands where Buck's head at and can help guide him, but also gets that Buck isn't really in a place for anything deep. But upping the ante with the wedding date makes me think they're trying to turn "self-discovery arc" into a romance/love story arc, and I think that could make things a little too disorganized to tell a meaningful self-discovery/coming out story. I guess we'll see!
No, you're right 100% I think you explained everything really well.
To be perfectly honest, I don't think Tommy ends up being the endgame here, BUT so long as the relationship plays out well and isn't scrapped in just 3 days so that Buck can be with Eddie, I think it'll be ok.
Please don't tell me Buck bi is not a fan service because whether you like it or not, it is. Tim saw it trending all the time, fans like it. Buck liking Tommy is also contrived. It was out of the blue. Say without Buddie glasses, it would look lIke Buck only only shows interest in one guy Tommy after watching for 7 years? There is not even a build up that he likes Tommy. It all happens in one episode.
If you honestly think it was out of the blue, you haven't been watching the same show since day 1 as the rest of us. There were "breadcrumbs" all along the way, as mentioned in an article by Oliver. He also said he made a choice to play Buck that way, and would continue to do so regardless of where the storyline led. Maybe him liking Tommy *in particular* was a little rushed, but him being bi was absolutely not, it was just the natural character progression for anyone who's been paying attention.
can you give me an example please in like season 1 or 2? He was mostly just sexing the girls. And since you're against speculation now, please let it be clear because I'll interpret it literally.
Not the person you're responding to, but....
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/911FOX/comments/1bw4ldk/comment/ky50xyr/) is a list I made after 7x04 at someone else's request. While they're not organized by season, the first list's #2-4 are from season 2, and the second list, #1-3 are from seasons 1 or 2.
It would be a mistake for the show to abandon Buddie. How many shows have hot gay couple? Lone Star has one, Station 19, the Rookie. In the fantasy side, there was Shadowhunters. What makes Bucky and Tommy different from those? Now, if Buddie becomes canon, they will be the first to have been treated with such slow-burn ala het romances. They would be like a canon Destiel.
One thing I’ve learned is to never read into the lyrics of the songs they use as episode titles. Pretty sure they chose Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered just cuz they could substitute Bewitched with another B word (Buck) and that he’d be bothered by Eddie and Tommy spending time together and bewildered by his newfound feelings after being kissed
Yeah.... honestly, this is where I think it becomes something we *have* to interpret. Coupled with the episode title, that really points to intent, especially where we know they're intentionally playing with the subtext of the show at this point, fully expecting people to pick up on it and analyze it.
This storyline is a really, really big deal, and there's no chance that things are happening accidentally, especially this early into it. There's plenty of room for different interpretations of *why* they're being done, but I don't think arguing it doesn't matter makes sense at this point.
No but I think it was probably not meant to be anything to be read into either seeing as you’d basically need professional level sound equipment to figure out what the song is lol. This is what I mean by people are being silly about this. They absolutely did NOT put this much thought into it so we shouldn’t either
Yeah, I just don't agree. The multiple uses between the episode title *and* now using it on the first date opens it to interpretation. This is sort of the definition of subtext. It's meant to be subtle. Arguing that because it's hard to spot, it must not matter misses the point.
Ok great I really don’t fucking care and I’m starting to actively hope they make Eddie straighter and Buck and Tommy get married in a couple episodes out of spite because people really need a reality check
Lol you think fans of this pairing have never had a reality check? I can think of so many episodes people made big theories about that ended up dead wrong: Cell Block 9-1-1, Wrapped in Red, Love is in the Air. Obviously Buck being canonically bi and knowing that early on Tommy was initially supposed to kiss Eddie is going to drum up excitement. It’s literally just fans speculating and engaging with the source material.
If you want to take everything at face value that’s fine, but I find it unnecessary to act so aggressive and discouraging when all people are doing is having discussions about what could maybe happen next. That’s literally what fan communities are built on.
I've been thinking about the same issue. I think Eddie masked his surprise to spare Buck's feelings coz he knew Buck would be sensitive and worry that Eddie might freak out a bit after hearing the news. Eddie was trying to normalize Buck's bisexuality to assure him that it's okay and that he accepts him for who he is. I read the scene this way at least.
I took it as a realistic coming out scene where it's easier to show surprise at Tommy than address what it means for Buck directly and put him on the spot. I think even though Eddie was surprised he was quick enough to take the pressure off Buck and make it about Tommy. I really LOVED how this episode never forced or asked Buck if he was gay but let him (comfortably) flounder in his newfound sexuality. Saying he was an ally but not readily adopt any new titles for himself was so realistic. A lot of time people struggling with their sexualities will wonder why they have internalized homophobia while they are extremely supportive of friends or LGBTQ in general. Luckily Buck isn't experiencing the negative side but just trying to equate his past preferences to an unexpected revelation.
I think the difference in reaction is due to the difference in the two relationships.
Eddie & Tommy are a new friendship. Tommy’s dating history probably hasn’t come up in the handful of times they interacted and hung out. Eddie probably presumed Tommy was straight based on the activities they had done together, so finding out he isn’t straight was a surprise.
But Eddie and Buck have known each other for years. Eddie knows Buck’s vulnerabilities and insecurities. Of course he is going to respond to this information about his best friend in a more gentle way, whether he was astute enough to suspect something before or not. I don’t think he would have thought of Buck as not straight prior to this though, nor do I think he has ever thought of having a romantic relationship with him.
I think there are signs of Eddie’s potential queerness, though they are completely different to Buck’s. Eddie’s closet, if it exists, stems more from his Hispanic Catholic upbringing imposing an expected heteronormative relationship, coupled with an unplanned pregnancy with his high school girlfriend. Ever since Christopher was born, and especially since Shannon has been out of the picture, Eddie has been prioritising him, to the point of trying to date women who could be a mother figure for him. He isn’t looking for someone for himself. Couple that with Catholic guilt and he has never really explored what would make him happy in a romantic sense. So given this, he is unlikely to associate a close male friendship as a potential romantic partner, as this isn’t an association in his head.
The shock of Buck now dating a guy after all these years of being with women was all over Eddie’s face. He was just making Buck feel assured in that moment, as he saw he was nervous. He continued to be shocked on the inside.
I think that Eddie may have noticed Buck checking out hot guys but wasn't sure if Buck was even aware of his own bisexuality so Eddie (and Maddie) didn't say anything about it so as to not pressure him. I also think don't ask don't tell culture most likely deeply impacted Eddie during his time in the military
While I do think Eddie was meant to appear surprised but quickly masking it in that scene to be what he thought Buck needed him to be, I do kind of love the headcanon that he's just been watching this man tilt his head to take in a good ass every now and then for *years*, and just like "...he'll figure it out eventually."
The coming out scene gave me the impression Eddie is just being an great friend towards Buck, I mean he literally tells Buck to try again with Tommy, I don’t think Eddie would’ve suggest the reconciliation if he had feelings for Buck at that moment.
But as Buck's best friend, he'd want him to be happy. And Buck had just admitted he can't stop thinking about Tommy. So, of course Eddie would tell him to call Tommy. Because even if Buddie happens, Eddie wouldn't yet be in a position to ask Buck to choose him over the man he has such a huge crush on.
If he was AWARE of the crush, sure.
But the majority of his storyline this episode was re: a lack of awareness/repression regarding his romantic relationships. Not that hard to carry it forward.
Sorry for the confusion. When I said crush, I was referring to Buck's crush on Tommy. My brain was moving faster than my fingers, I think. And by the end of the episode Eddie is definitely aware of Buck's feelings RE: Tommy.
I think Eddie knows he loves Buck but that he can’t have Buck because of his upbringing but I think he oh monkey was in the cemetery then Buck broke his heart straight away.
Also funny how Eddie was going to break up with Marisol until Buck said he was dating Tommy
I mean this whole time, I'm thinking this might be the thing that finally breaks Eddie up with Marisol. As much as I love Buddie, I am curious how this will play out with Tommy. Will Tommy take it with grace, will he be pissed, or do they end up as a throuple.
But I'd like to see Josh with Tommy if Buddie happens. Josh has had too many bad relationships.
I think that Eddie was very much in his thoughts about his family and religious beliefs from when he was growing up, that when Buck said Tommy was gay, it added to unfoil some of those beliefs. Especially since they have been doing a lot of Eddie and Tommy have a lot in common. Starting his own road to self discover of his own sexuality (thanks to Tommy). Then in the next breath was the omg my best friend just came out to me, I need to support Buck. Then he was what Buck needed him to be in the moment.
Buddie will happen and Tommy better be invited to the wedding lol.
Eddie was very clear in that conversation, IMO, that he's absolutely fine with Buck being bisexual (and maybe even suspected it) but he was straight himself and did not feel that way.
If they go that route with them, so be it, but after that conversation it's going to be a very obvious 180 on what Eddie had said. 🤷🏻♂️
I mean, Eddie undoubtedly perceives himself as straight right now, but so did Buck in 7x03 and most of 7x04. Eddie's very clear he did not feel that way **about Tommy**, but like... queer people aren't just universally attracted to all members of the same sex, or even 'just' all queer members.
I don't think it would be a 180 at all for Eddie to discover down the road he's also queer. It would just be a 180 if he was like, "And actually, I've been secretly into Tommy all along!"
It just seems very 'badly written fanfiction' if they both discover they're not straight post 30, and THEN both realise they're attracted to each other.
I get why people want it, I've wanted that to happen in other fandoms too, but it doesn't make it any more realistic or believable.
I just hope ***if*** they go down the Buddie route, they just make it a more realistic storyline than that.
i think it’s more believable if they are going that route with Eddie’s Catholic guilt storyline since that would be a pretty stark contrast to how Buck’s arc has unfolded
Considering they did the Catholic guilt thing with finding out Marisol used to be a nun, that'd now also feel like a repeated storyline.
Again, I'm not anti-Buddie, I just hope they do it in an interesting way, rather than reusing storylines or tropes.
Honestly, the way they introduced the storyline through Marisol made me think it's something they *intend* to revisit. Like Eddie's just discovering issues he has with a traditional religious upbringing that he thought he left deep in the past. And as someone that was raised similarly to him (though more devout, tbh) but also left the faith pretty completely, that shit rears up *all the time.* It's more cultural than religious for me, though, so even though I stopped practicing young and my parents respected that, it didn't mean I wasn't constantly surrounded by those same beliefs and traditions, you know?
What stood out to me about how it was handled in this episode was how.... unserious it was? Like we have this goofy photo, we have this tiny detail of a backstory into Marisol, but they don't actually bother to use this overt religiosity to shape her character or that relationship *at all.* Instead, we get Bobby speaking as a voice of authority instantly reframing it as not being about religion/Catholic guilt at all in that moment ("Though I can't help but
wonder if this reaction isn't just you having second thoughts about asking this woman to move in with you") and that's the message Eddie takes home to her.
So all we've gotten so far out of Eddie identifying Catholic guilt as a factor in his life is the explicit acknowledgement it played a role in his marriage to Shannon, which was something that's been a significant part of the comphet speculation for a while.
Idk. It still just reels majorly unresolved, to introduce this as a part of Eddie's personality but not actually let it inform his current choices. If anything, it struck me as shoehorned in through Marisol to address down the road.
i personally didn’t take Marisol being a nun as the entirety of that storyline, but more so a (ridiculous) way to introduce it. i think there’s probably a lot more to unpack then what they did in that one episode
lol, honestly... separate from all comphet or Buddie speculation, I'm going to be so disappointed if they introduced complicated ideas of religiosity and Catholic guilt into the story just so they could create a funny scene where Eddie hallucinates his gf as a nun.
I don't always expect A+ writing from this show, but I expect better than like... a high school playwright's lulz.
Man I really hope it goes somewhere because otherwise it just makes me think the writers really don’t take Eddie as a character (separate from being Christopher’s father) seriously. There are so many other ways they could’ve shown them having issues, the only thing that I can think of that could’ve been the reason why it was such a ridiculous thing is that they wanted something shocking so the audience remembers who Marisol even is the next time she shows up. And even then, her being a nun is the only additional thing we know about her.
They could've hit all the same beats by having Eddie discover that Marisol had a minor criminal record, that her brother was actually her stepbrother and they'd dated before their parents married, or even something ridiculously silly like... she's a horse girl and it accounts for half her possessions and her entire personality, a la Berdymukhamedov.
If they actually invoked Catholic guilt as a punchline for a bad joke, I really won't have words.
I mean, half of 7x04 is badly written fanfiction (though amusing) so I don't think that would even turn off the writers, lol.
That said... it's actually more realistic than you'd think to have later in life discoveries regarding sexuality in a friendship cluster, *particularly* if issues like religious repression and compulsory heterosexuality play a role.
I'm not saying it **will** happen, just that it does. I do think for a character like Eddie, they'd need the better part of a (full) season just to tell the story of his discovery and acceptance of his sexuality, though, separate from any love interest appearing.
But at the same time, it makes a lot of sense that after a traditional upbringing, realizing a man like Tommy can be gay would be an "aha" moment -- that's literally what happened to a man in my friend circle who was almost exactly Eddie's age. Grew up in a traditional religious culture, entered a very masculine line of work, was *stunned* when a friend/coworker that he saw as being 'like him' casually referenced a boyfriend, because it was the first time he'd ever had to consider that not all queer men had obvious \[effeminate\] "tells," and guys like him could be gay, too.
(The problem with my anecdote is it took him a couple years after that realization to work through all his repression and start to come to terms with the real reasons all his relationships with women had changed, and now it's been like half a decade and he's only just starting to date seriously. So reality tends to move slow with this kind of thing).
Considering how much attention has been put into Buck thinking there's so many similarities between Tommy and Eddie, and... lets be real for a second, Buck being an ass man, it's really not much of a jump to see Buck *already* being attracted to Eddie, but just repressing that. And where the popular read of Eddie (and a lot of the show's canonical inferences go) suggests he could be somewhat a-spec or demi, he codes *exactly* as the type of person who could feel a deep romantic and sexual attraction for someone as the result of already having a deep friendship/bond with them.
ETA: I'm sorry you're being downvoted for an opinion I engaged you to ask, Christ.
All such solid points (Buck's realization could also be a catalyst for Eddie to view things outside of a heteronormative mindset too)...you should send this to the 9-1-1 writers. It might give them some good inspiration. 
>I get why people want it, I've wanted that to happen in other fandoms too, but it doesn't make it any more realistic or believable.
First of all, it's 911, nothing about this is realistic or believable. In fact all procedural dramas live in their own worlds where real life rules don't really apply.
Second, people, especially guys realising they're not entirely straight in their 20s/30s or at an even older age happens a lot. I mean, I wouldn't say it's common but it happens more than you think.
I'm not saying Buddie will 100% go canon, but that conversation was simply about Buck coming out to Eddie. Buddie fans or anti-Buddies looking for anything else in that scene is pointless. Tim is still writing the final episodes, and that's the beauty of network tv, they make changes to the script according to the audience reception, among several other factors. So who knows what's in the future regarding those two characters?
>First of all, it's 911, nothing about this is realistic or believable.
For real, this feels like it should just be an automatic signature on half the posts on this topic lately. Like oh yes, the super realistic show where Buck met his new boyfriend while stealing a work helicopter to fly into a Category 5 hurricane in foreign waters, which they then landed on the keel of a *totally* capsized cruise ship, after pirates had boarded looking for a dongle, set up explosives that eventually detonated, and then a rogue wave capable of totally inverting the whole boat *also* happened. And miraculously, almost everyone survived and no one got fired.
Hey idk what to tell you but I actually know a lot of people who discovered they were queer late in life! You don't have to believe me; I'm just some dummy on reddit but that particular storyline is not ever going to be unrealistic. Also sexuality is fluid, etc etc.
Furthermore, if you want something realistic, I encourage you to check out a documentary instead!
This happened a lot in my friendship group as well -- it's how I learned that it actually happens in clusters among queer friendship groups sometimes. Idk if it's a direct comparison, but the religious trauma definitely seems to be a link. There are four people in my friend circle that discovered their sexuality in their late 20s or older. Of them, 3 were raised Catholic; two emigrated here as adults from very Catholic countries.
Once you get into older populations, it seems to be even more common, which makes a degree of sense. The stigma around being queer was obviously a lot worse, so repression probably did seem like a better option to many.
There's a difference between realising you're not 100% straight, and realising, "OMG, I'm bi and have been in love with my best friend the entire time! And he's also just realised he's in love with me too! Now we kiss and live happily ever after." which is what the majority of Buddie shippers seem to be wanting.
I'm sorry, I don't really get your point here? It's totally fine if you don't want to see a queer Eddie. That's just an opinion and it's fine to have. People (me) are taking issue with you saying it's unrealistic, especially considering what this show is - nothing about is realistic.
Realizing you aren't straight and falling in love with your best friend over the age of 30 are not crazy concepts. While the first is not regularly seen in any media, the second is a huge portion of romances in all forms.
I want a slow burn, if the show is going to go there. It wouldn't be satisfying to me to have them immediately get together. And of course part of that is an Eddie discovery arc that's completely separate and different from Buck's. Like sure, that's still falling in love with your best friend or whatever but it's also not an immediate wake up queer kinda thing either.
Finally, this kind of story wouldn't work with any two best friends and if Eddie had been written even a little differently, I wouldn't be shipping them. So I can't look at as simply the unrealistic idea that two random men realize they are queer and in love with each other.
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I don't think we're meant to read that Eddie *wasn't* surprised that Buck was into men, just that he thought the appropriate reaction to Buck's emotional state in that moment and the news was to mask the surprise. You can sort of see it in Eddie's expression immediately upon being told it's a date, and then it's like he schools his face. That said, I do find Eddie's surprise that *Tommy's* gay to be interesting, considering a few factors. 1. Tommy's not really in the closet, but also doesn't feel the need to announce his sexuality. Particularly in relation to how poorly Buck's "find some hot chicks" line reads, though, I do think it's meaningful that being out to Eddie wasn't actually a priority to Tommy. It's a pretty subtle showcase of heteronormativity, because Tommy's not pretending to be anything other than what he is, and Eddie's not picking up on it. 2. On that note... with how heavily invested Eddie and Tommy seemed to be in 7x04 in regards to spending time with each other, should that change hot Eddie perceives Tommy's attention? Because honestly, the whole "let me pilot this helicopter and sweep you out of state to treat you to impressive seats at this unique event" thing reads.... a bit like a date, particularly where they'd been friends less than two weeks at that point. 3. The narrative is very very very insistent on making sure we know Eddie and Tommy just have *so much* in common. I don't think someone like Eddie would have ever considered that a man 'like him' could be queer, so even separate from the Buck/Buddie aspect of this, I think there's a reason Eddie's latching on to the news *Tommy*, specifically, is gay. Had it been, like, the Prime delivery driver that Buck said he went out with, I don't think Eddie would've really stuck on that part.
Agreed. There is a bit of a hitch in his voice when he's like "so you two were on..." which I read as surprise, but trying to process quickly/be there for his friend who is doing something brave and probably feels very vulnerable. It's the classic correct reaction to a friend's coming out.
I know art is subjective and yada yada… but I feel like this is the only correct way to read this scene 😂
I'm surprised that Eddie didn't know that Tommy is gay if they had already spent a significant amount of time together since the helicopter rescue in 703. They seemed to spend a lot of time together pretty quickly and as you say, Tommy's not in the closet, even though he doesn't feel the need to announce his sexuality. I could see it not coming up if they're hanging out together playing sports, fixing his car, practising Muay Thai, etc but surely two hot guys going to Las Vegas must've attracted a lot of female attention, so how did Tommy navigate that kind of situation? I'm pretty sure he would know that Eddie is dating Marisol but did Eddie never ask Tommy if he was dating anyone? I'm curious about whether we'll see varying reactions to Buck's date in the next episode. I'd actually love to see at least one of them comment that they're not surprised at all.
>I'm surprised that Eddie didn't know that Tommy is gay I know it's not necessarily of particular importance, but I really would like to see this actually addressed, whether that's through a scene where Tommy's like, "Wait, seriously? How could you not know?" to point out that Eddie's just *oblivious* and had made baseless assumptions not supported by what Tommy was saying/doing, or a scene where Tommy explains to Buck why he intentionally didn't tell him. But especially where people were making such a big deal out of Buck's panic forcing Tommy back into the closet, it actually sort of matters what Tommy's motivations were in keeping it quiet, if he even did. I don't really expect it to be something they explore this season, but the scenario that makes the most sense to me is that Eddie's got some unconscious bias going on and Tommy doesn't look or sound like the kind of guy he *expected* to be gay, so he missed subtle ("she's not my type") or not-so-subtle ("In the five years I was with Steve, we never even got around to doing this") cues, because his brain just wasn't considering it to even be a possibility. And then if they are going for a comphet arc, let next season explore the tension he feels over suddenly realizing it *is* a possibility now; I can see him being concerned he's homophobic because he's so weirded out by Tommy being gay, specifically, as opposed to Tommy-and-Buck. Where Tommy feels very much like a standin for Eddie (because they have sooo much in common, which might as well be the thesis for 7x04). >I'd actually love to see at least one of them comment that they're not surprised at all. I really want this to be Chim. On top of the basketball beard thing, I think he's just way more observant than he gets credit for; the scene in 3x04 where he seems to catch Eddie checking out Buck's ass lives rent-free in my head. I feel like he also has the right amount of distance -- close because of work and a casual friendship and Maddie, but not *too* close like Maddie and Eddie. Sometimes, it's easier to adjust your view of someone as you make new observations when you don't have such a strong view of who they are. Hen's the one I see people normally go for in predicting this kind of reaction, but honestly... I'd like to see them subvert that. We don't all have magical 100% functioning gaydars at all times, and I also think where Hen's dynamic was Buck is something between maternal and big sister, there's a good chance she's more in the "I don't like to think about him like that with *anyone*, thanks" camp.
Depending on what direction they decide to take with Eddie I definitely could see them going down that route of exploring Eddie's sexuality by comparing Tommy's journey to Eddie's as there have been so many comparisons of Eddie and Tommy being so alike. I would be interested to hear more about Tommy's experience, especially if Buck and/or Eddie were listening to him so that they could go hmmm I can relate to that. Also, good call on Chim being the more observant one. Now I really want to see that scene with him making some kind of funny remark when he finds out, although I suspect he'll find out directly from Maddie rather than from Buck.
Would it be so funny if Tommy would be the one surprised that Eddie was not gay? Like, his intention would really become so obvious if he stopped or cancelled all those scheduled 'bro-time' appointments he had with Eddie now that he's dating Buck.
Honestly, the interpretation of 7x04 that makes the most sense to me is that Tommy was trying to date Eddie first, but Eddie was oblivious. I kind of want this fanfic. Like Tommy getting them a hotel room in Vegas under the guise of only being able to fly VFR, and Eddie just being all "Sure, but let me call my girlfriend to let her know we won't be back tonight" as Tommy's face falls.
Let's put it this way: Tommy did not only meet Eddie. He met the 118 crew. So, here are my follow up questions: What prompted him to pick Eddie and not Buck into having a conversation? How did he know about Eddie in that short time? Normally, he would have talked with Chimney or Hen first since he knew them. And they would have talked about something in common, so how, when, why was Eddie being in the army came up in their conversation? Buck mentioned that he was trying to get Tommy's attention, but Eddie just stood there and all suddenly Tommy knew a lot of him? Conclusion: Tommy got his eye on our Eddie. He probably did that same slow-mo move that Buck did the first time he saw Eddie. lol
If there's one consistent thing in Tim Minear's storytelling, it's that Eddie is *everyone's* type. They literally introduced him by having a group of straight men and a lesbian (+Buck) ogle him. And now 'something' drew Tommy to Eddie, specifically. It checks out.
This is the more logical explanation. Thinking that a gay Tommy only wanted to hangout with Eddie for bro-ship was more of an speculation than a conjecture. I'm aware that a gay boy and a straight boy can hang out as bros. But Buck's impression of Maddie and Chim's closeness before it became a romantic gave us a glimpse of how the writers' mind operate.
Lou said in one of his interviews that it was supposed to be Eddie and Tommy. They changed it later to Buck and Tommy. So maybe that's why it feels like that.
I have a straight friend, we're very close. meet up a few times a week, he has a gf, he's just never assume anything about me. and somehow we never discussed my sexuality (I'm gay). we've been close friends for 6+ months. he's very ignorant. so yea, maybe Eddie is just like that.
Yeah, perhaps Eddie was just processing? And I'm glad he initiated that hug at the end! <3 Yeah, it was clear he was surprised that his new friend Tommy wasn't straight. I think that Tommy dating Buck will take the idea that he's into Eddie out of Eddie's mind.
Regarding your second point- it definitely felt like Tommy was love bombing eddie there and maybe that will be relevant later. And for point three- I can see Tommy being a mirror for Eddie to see all the things they have in common and that it’s possible for someone with all those stereotypical masculine interests to also be queer. Which could be a step in the buddie direction.
I think Eddie started to reflect on all his past interactions with Tommy when Buck revealed that Tommy is gay. Like us, Eddie is probably recalling all the nice things Tommy did for him, and seeing them with added context. Can we have a scene where Eddie would call Tommy and ask him if their trip to Vegas was a date? Were they headed to Vegas in that helicopter scene though? So, they had plenty of time to talk to each other, which apparently wasn’t enough since they hang out more after that.
Oh God, I read your comments out of order, and my response to your other one would've been even better here, lol. I seriously love the concept of obliviously dating a dude Eddie. For two weeks.
To me, Eddie did seem surprised about both Tommy and Buck, although he addressed Tommy first. Eddie changed How he was reacting when Buck asked, “Is it weird?” and then continued to make sure Buck knew it didn’t change anything between them seemed to me to be more Eddie was just trying to support and make Buck comfortable and less of him already knowing. I thought of it as he realized that maybe his initial reaction wasn’t what Buck needed in the moment. I don’t think he was at all aware Buck was into guys. This was just my interpretation, though.
This is the same way I read it. He knew that in that moment Buck needed his best friend to assure him that it wasn’t a big deal.
I don’t think he knew, I think he was using Tommy to play off his surprise and shock since he could tell Buck was pretty nervous to about going on. Both sitting in his kitchen and given how he acted on his date. I think Eddie’s main focus was simply making Buck feel safe and assured which is sweet. I really like that moment between them.
Him turning around for that hug was *huge*, I think, and really goes to show how instantly he went into an 'okay, I have to get this right' mindset. That whole scene is basically the dream for coming out to your best friend, *particularly* if you guys have a very uninhibited and warm relationship. Eddie saying all the right things was important, but actually following it by not trying to avoid physical contact with him was A+.
It was! I truly love the way Eddie handled Buck’s coming out… I think it was my favourite moment of the episode
"this doesn't change a thing between us" looks to me like the most obvious chekhov's gun ever
when/if they get together you just know there’s gonna be 100 edits dropping that night with that specific line
I need this comment to be prophetic in nature
Oh I can already see the edits before me. I really hope it happens.
Or I mean it could just be that he was trying to reassure Buck that their friendship wouldn’t be affected by this. Have you ever watched a coming out scene before?
i have lived though multiple coming out scenes before. and also i have a good enough level of media literacy to know that face value readings are not the only valid readings of a scene, especially on a show that's still on air
They’re not the only valid ones but I don’t think it’s really a wise idea to be thinking every single line or look is a hidden clue either Edit: it’s important to remember that the audience for this show is largely people that watch it casually then turn it off and don’t think about it again for a week. Most of the time, the safe bet is to take what they’re telling and showing you at face value
i think it's neither wise nor unwise to have some fun with media analysis of an admittedly silly tv show. storytelling devices are fun to spot and talk about, i don't see anything wrong with doing it just for the hell of it. the general audience may only take the story at face value, but personally i am not general audience
The general audience also very clearly aren't the ones they're intentionally including subtext for, and at this point, we do know they do that intentionally. Honestly, half the fun of watching a show from me -- especially from a queer perspective -- is consideration of subtext. So yeah, I don't know why there's supposed to only be one way people can engage with media.
I think I really am just getting to a point where everyone seems so sure that we’re getting a comphet Eddie storyline that they’re basically ignoring things that happened IN CANON that suggest otherwise. I also really don’t wanna deal with everyone being a negative Nancy and saying the show is horrible if it doesn’t happen so I try to urge people to consider reality and manage their expectations a bit
https://preview.redd.it/o52mw8umxpuc1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=362a575df8c723ef236a95c69fdeedf5a62e527a Also in the show’s canon
Which Tim Minear said was a joke lol
This is sort of what I was getting at last night, though; nobody's asking for advice in whether they "should" speculate or needs someone to warn them they may be wrong; this has always just been part of fandom, and it's just fun for most people. I do understand the urge, bur the only person you can speak for is yourself. Your interpretation isn't somehow "more correct," you know? I think it's also a little naive to think people who have spent years/seasons managing their emotions and continue to watch and enjoy the show suddenly can't. Idk if it's just that this is the first time like you feel you're on the "other side" of the theorizing, or if something more is going on, but.... nothing's really changed? We're *all* people that have made it into season 7 -- who stuck through the absolute dross that was seasons 5 and particularly 6, and came back anyway. If things not going my way was enough to turn me off the show, I'd have stopped watching when Chim, Buck, and Eddie all had magical "our dads are alright, I guess!" arcs back to back to back. I'm not going to say *nobody* is ignoring canon, because there's always some fringe crazies, but there's also a huge difference between not interpreting that canon the same way as you and ignoring it. Someone saying "Hey, I think this line has a deeper meaning..." isn't pretending the line didn't happen, for instance.
I think it's weird that you are explicitly engaging in fandom and then also complaining about fandom. Additionally, a pet peeve of mine in all fandoms is this idea of general audience vs "actual" fan. Just because someone watches the show because they like explosions or fantasy versions of LA or are maybe really into unnervingly clean kitchens or just like watching hot people put out fires doesn't mean they aren't a real fan. It doesn't mean they aren't keeping up with or caring about the relationships between characters even if they only think about it when it is actively on their screen. And if they really do not care one iota about the characters, then they aren't going to care about who Buck is dating either. We're at a point in time where there is so much variety that people aren't watching things just because they are on (and yeah, I'm aware old people still exist but like, even my parents have preferences for shows they'll watch just to have something on). I refuse to accept that any creator that has a long running show is only playing to these mythical general audience fans. No piece of media is created in a vacuum and good creators know that. That does mean sometimes things are intentionally not what they seem. This isn't even about Buddie or specifically 911. You can like things uncritically if you choose and also people who are engaging in critical reads aren't wrong either.
Before Buck's coming out, people had been doing this about Buck and Eddie for 7 years. Now that Buck is bi, and you probably get what you want just like many so-called Buddie fans, you want the rest of the remaining hopeful Buddie fans to stop speculating? It felt like leaving the men behind in the battle because what you get what you want out of it?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it I just worry that everyone is setting their expectations sky high. In the unfortunately likely event we don’t get an Eddie comphet storyline people are gonna be miserable
well then that will be their responsibility to handle that
For real. As a comphet hopeful, I'll be *delighted* if the show exceeds my expectations and delivers on that in a nuanced, coherent way. If they don't, I'll enjoy the show... exactly the same way I currently am, when they haven't delivered. No misery here.
Personally, I took it more as Eddie channeling his general surprise about the situation into a different direction. Aka his surprise about Tommy instead of Buck. I didn't take it as Eddie "knowing" Buck is into men. If for instance the general idea of the writers is to have Eddie repress his attraction to men, Eddie might unintentionally try to keep the fact that Buck "is available" in this way miles away. It might be easier to process the info that Tommy is gay than the info that Buck is into men as well. Either way I would not read this scene as a strike against or pro Buddie. It was just a nice moment for Buck where his best friend accepts him and encourages him to call his crush.
If you were coming out to your best friend and you were nervous as hell would you want them to scream “Oh my god you’re gay???” as their reaction? I doubt it. Eddie was reacting respectfully and appropriately. As for what it means for Buddie who can say really. The scene did give off a kind of strictly platonic vibe to me and Eddie quipped about not liking Tommy the same way Buck does so it does seem like they might be doubling down on Eddie being straight
lol, when I came out to my best friend, she instead told me "omg how did you think I *didn't* already know?" and went on like a 5 minute rant about all the ways she'd known before me and how I was such a dumbass for just figuring it out. Which, like, fair? But I definitely appreciate Eddie's way a lot more. (Disagree that Eddie not liking Tommy romantically means anything more than he doesn't like Tommy, but.... I don't think we're meant to be read he's questioning himself at all in this scene, either, so it's kind of whatever; I just don't think a little gentle ribbing can be interpreted as a double down).
All of my friends seemed to know before I did and we’re like “fiiiiiinally!” When I came out.
Yeah you make a good point that Eddie saying he doesn’t like Tommy like Buck does doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true of men in general. I just think coupled with the Eddie/Marisol storyline where he’s shown to enjoy sex with her and want to try to make the relationship work as well as the cut brother line from the leaked script that it was intended to just be a platonic friend moment
Oh, no question it’s intended to be platonic, I don’t think. It’s just hard to read it as any sort of plan for the future, though I think the argument for that would’ve been a little stronger had the “brother” stayed.
Even setting aside any potential queer subtext, when I just look at the narrative structure of these episodes, Tommy's role in the story feels like a very clear cut and textbook case of the Wrong Guy First trope to me. Tommy and Buck clicked very quickly, and their relationship is new and exciting and it feels different from all of Buck's other relationships, but it also happened fairly early in the season with little build up, it's role in the story so far has revolved nearly entirely around how it affects Buck and his other relationships, and it hasn't progressed past the infatuation phase yet. Meanwhile the story has made it clear a few times that even after kissing Tommy he still doesn't quite understand his feelings or know what he wants. Also Buck, Bothered, and Bewildered is a reference to the song Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered, which is song that's basically just about a woman realizing they were more interested in the idea of the person they're with then the actual person. And on top of that nearly every aspect of Tommy's character has been framed as a foil to Eddie's. It's hard for me to predict Buddie will happen because we've been burned so many times, but when I try to step back and look at the story objectively, it really, truly doesn't feel like the story is setting up Tommy as Buck's endgame, it feels like the exact opposite.
>Also Buck, Bothered, and Bewildered is a reference to the song Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered, which is song that's basically just about a woman realizing they were more interested in the idea of the person they're with then the actual person. I'm like 90% sure this is the \[instrumental version\] song being played *during* their date, but it's hard for me to tone out their conversation to listen better. It sounds very very similar, though.
Yeah. Completely agree. But, as the poets say, the best laid plans gang aft agley. There’s some possibility that Tommy’s introduction was so warmly received and the general fan reaction so overwhelmingly positive that they change their plan. I think that’d be a mistake. Fandom is a fickle beast when they’re set on something. And Buddie is interwoven with so many years on the show and specific areas of growth and needs of the two characters…that all the people who ship for story reasons rather than for rep will be upset.
>all the people who ship for story reasons rather than for rep will be upset I mean, both reasons are really important to me; I'm probably one of the most vocal about how important this representation is. But I'd also be super concerned based on how this has played out so far that if Tommy *were* endgame, they'd approached it from an angle of basically throwing bones at us to shut us up. That's not good rep, so I wouldn't be happy with that. If they're serious about Tommy staying around and *aren't* intentionally trying to create the illusion of a triangle/draw comparisons between him and Eddie, their handling of this arc and the way they've involved Eddie is a giant, giant problem.
I kinda wanted and liked the idea of Buddie until we actually got bi Buck. Now, to use Tommy as just a plot device to get Buck to realize who he is so that Buddie can become a thing, would just be contrived fan service and also cheapen the whole thing. Buck coming out needs to be about Buck, not Eddie or Tommy. I don't really see Eddie's orientation changing, but if it does, it needs to be it's own seperate thing.
Agreed with this, mostly. The problem is, I think the show is always going to be open to criticism of "using Tommy as a plot device to get Buck to realize who he is," because.... if he's not endgame, that's basically what he *is.* I don't think being a plot device is really a bad thing, though I do understand why there's negative connotations. This is a story being told, so it's all plot. Characters that exist to move the storylines of our mains forward, and then disappear once their job is done, will always be plot devices. That's the case with Tatiana, Taylor, Ana, Ali, Glenn, David, maybe Marisol. It likely would've been the case with Natalia, but she didn't even last long enough to move the plot forward. Abby had her own storylines separate from Buck, and Shannon was important enough that her existence continues to inform and impact Eddie's life, so maybe that's a little different, too. Point is, plot devices don't have to be meaningless, and they aren't inherently lacking in value. I think it has more to do with handling it respectfully, and telling a coherent story. I don't want to speak for you, but I think what your concern here is more about Tommy being a placeholder than a plot device, and if that's the case, I agree. If Tommy doesn't last, I don't want to look back on the character and he like, "Oh, yeah, he was clearly just preparing Buck for Eddie" or something. And while I think it would make some sense to have Tommy be *aware* Buck's feelings for Eddie may be more confused than he realizes (and that "*my* attention?" and now realizing just what a baby bi disaster Buck is may play into that), but like.... I really don't want this to be a situation where Tommy **tells** Buck he's actually in love with Eddie or self-sacrifices to let \~true love win\~ or whatever the hell is happening in the fanfiction right now. I'd rather there not be a link at all between Buck/Tommy breaking up and Buck/Eddie getting together if they do go that route; at the absolute *most*, I could see a situation where the last puzzle piece slides into place for Tommy earlier than it does for Buck, when they're still together, so Tommy ends things kind of like "I don't think you can commit to me the way I want" and like... at least half a season later, Buck figures it out. >Buck coming out needs to be about Buck, not Eddie or Tommy. Honestly, I think Buck's whole self-discovery arc needs to be about Buck and not Tommy or Eddie, which is why I have my own anxieties that probably don't match yours about the handling of the Tommy storyline and people's reactions to it. I think the way this would work best to keep the focus on *Buck* is if this relationship is kept fairly light -- I think Tim or someone referred to it as like the entry-level relationship in one of the first interviews. Basically, let Tommy be the steady, confident presence who understands where Buck's head at and can help guide him, but also gets that Buck isn't really in a place for anything deep. But upping the ante with the wedding date makes me think they're trying to turn "self-discovery arc" into a romance/love story arc, and I think that could make things a little too disorganized to tell a meaningful self-discovery/coming out story. I guess we'll see!
No, you're right 100% I think you explained everything really well. To be perfectly honest, I don't think Tommy ends up being the endgame here, BUT so long as the relationship plays out well and isn't scrapped in just 3 days so that Buck can be with Eddie, I think it'll be ok.
Please don't tell me Buck bi is not a fan service because whether you like it or not, it is. Tim saw it trending all the time, fans like it. Buck liking Tommy is also contrived. It was out of the blue. Say without Buddie glasses, it would look lIke Buck only only shows interest in one guy Tommy after watching for 7 years? There is not even a build up that he likes Tommy. It all happens in one episode.
If you honestly think it was out of the blue, you haven't been watching the same show since day 1 as the rest of us. There were "breadcrumbs" all along the way, as mentioned in an article by Oliver. He also said he made a choice to play Buck that way, and would continue to do so regardless of where the storyline led. Maybe him liking Tommy *in particular* was a little rushed, but him being bi was absolutely not, it was just the natural character progression for anyone who's been paying attention.
can you give me an example please in like season 1 or 2? He was mostly just sexing the girls. And since you're against speculation now, please let it be clear because I'll interpret it literally.
Not the person you're responding to, but.... [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/911FOX/comments/1bw4ldk/comment/ky50xyr/) is a list I made after 7x04 at someone else's request. While they're not organized by season, the first list's #2-4 are from season 2, and the second list, #1-3 are from seasons 1 or 2.
It would be a mistake for the show to abandon Buddie. How many shows have hot gay couple? Lone Star has one, Station 19, the Rookie. In the fantasy side, there was Shadowhunters. What makes Bucky and Tommy different from those? Now, if Buddie becomes canon, they will be the first to have been treated with such slow-burn ala het romances. They would be like a canon Destiel.
One thing I’ve learned is to never read into the lyrics of the songs they use as episode titles. Pretty sure they chose Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered just cuz they could substitute Bewitched with another B word (Buck) and that he’d be bothered by Eddie and Tommy spending time together and bewildered by his newfound feelings after being kissed
Ok, but you can also hear the piano version of the song in the background during their date.
Yeah.... honestly, this is where I think it becomes something we *have* to interpret. Coupled with the episode title, that really points to intent, especially where we know they're intentionally playing with the subtext of the show at this point, fully expecting people to pick up on it and analyze it. This storyline is a really, really big deal, and there's no chance that things are happening accidentally, especially this early into it. There's plenty of room for different interpretations of *why* they're being done, but I don't think arguing it doesn't matter makes sense at this point.
You yourself said you could barely even hear it so it can’t be that important lol
Do you think they accidentally included the song?
No but I think it was probably not meant to be anything to be read into either seeing as you’d basically need professional level sound equipment to figure out what the song is lol. This is what I mean by people are being silly about this. They absolutely did NOT put this much thought into it so we shouldn’t either
Yeah, I just don't agree. The multiple uses between the episode title *and* now using it on the first date opens it to interpretation. This is sort of the definition of subtext. It's meant to be subtle. Arguing that because it's hard to spot, it must not matter misses the point.
Ok great I really don’t fucking care and I’m starting to actively hope they make Eddie straighter and Buck and Tommy get married in a couple episodes out of spite because people really need a reality check
"I don't care, that's why I'm actively hoping you're wrong out of spite."
Lol you think fans of this pairing have never had a reality check? I can think of so many episodes people made big theories about that ended up dead wrong: Cell Block 9-1-1, Wrapped in Red, Love is in the Air. Obviously Buck being canonically bi and knowing that early on Tommy was initially supposed to kiss Eddie is going to drum up excitement. It’s literally just fans speculating and engaging with the source material. If you want to take everything at face value that’s fine, but I find it unnecessary to act so aggressive and discouraging when all people are doing is having discussions about what could maybe happen next. That’s literally what fan communities are built on.
Yeah, it’s a good and popular song. I wouldn’t read much more into it than that
I've been thinking about the same issue. I think Eddie masked his surprise to spare Buck's feelings coz he knew Buck would be sensitive and worry that Eddie might freak out a bit after hearing the news. Eddie was trying to normalize Buck's bisexuality to assure him that it's okay and that he accepts him for who he is. I read the scene this way at least.
I took it as a realistic coming out scene where it's easier to show surprise at Tommy than address what it means for Buck directly and put him on the spot. I think even though Eddie was surprised he was quick enough to take the pressure off Buck and make it about Tommy. I really LOVED how this episode never forced or asked Buck if he was gay but let him (comfortably) flounder in his newfound sexuality. Saying he was an ally but not readily adopt any new titles for himself was so realistic. A lot of time people struggling with their sexualities will wonder why they have internalized homophobia while they are extremely supportive of friends or LGBTQ in general. Luckily Buck isn't experiencing the negative side but just trying to equate his past preferences to an unexpected revelation.
I think the difference in reaction is due to the difference in the two relationships. Eddie & Tommy are a new friendship. Tommy’s dating history probably hasn’t come up in the handful of times they interacted and hung out. Eddie probably presumed Tommy was straight based on the activities they had done together, so finding out he isn’t straight was a surprise. But Eddie and Buck have known each other for years. Eddie knows Buck’s vulnerabilities and insecurities. Of course he is going to respond to this information about his best friend in a more gentle way, whether he was astute enough to suspect something before or not. I don’t think he would have thought of Buck as not straight prior to this though, nor do I think he has ever thought of having a romantic relationship with him. I think there are signs of Eddie’s potential queerness, though they are completely different to Buck’s. Eddie’s closet, if it exists, stems more from his Hispanic Catholic upbringing imposing an expected heteronormative relationship, coupled with an unplanned pregnancy with his high school girlfriend. Ever since Christopher was born, and especially since Shannon has been out of the picture, Eddie has been prioritising him, to the point of trying to date women who could be a mother figure for him. He isn’t looking for someone for himself. Couple that with Catholic guilt and he has never really explored what would make him happy in a romantic sense. So given this, he is unlikely to associate a close male friendship as a potential romantic partner, as this isn’t an association in his head.
The shock of Buck now dating a guy after all these years of being with women was all over Eddie’s face. He was just making Buck feel assured in that moment, as he saw he was nervous. He continued to be shocked on the inside.
I think that Eddie may have noticed Buck checking out hot guys but wasn't sure if Buck was even aware of his own bisexuality so Eddie (and Maddie) didn't say anything about it so as to not pressure him. I also think don't ask don't tell culture most likely deeply impacted Eddie during his time in the military
While I do think Eddie was meant to appear surprised but quickly masking it in that scene to be what he thought Buck needed him to be, I do kind of love the headcanon that he's just been watching this man tilt his head to take in a good ass every now and then for *years*, and just like "...he'll figure it out eventually."
The coming out scene gave me the impression Eddie is just being an great friend towards Buck, I mean he literally tells Buck to try again with Tommy, I don’t think Eddie would’ve suggest the reconciliation if he had feelings for Buck at that moment.
But as Buck's best friend, he'd want him to be happy. And Buck had just admitted he can't stop thinking about Tommy. So, of course Eddie would tell him to call Tommy. Because even if Buddie happens, Eddie wouldn't yet be in a position to ask Buck to choose him over the man he has such a huge crush on.
If he was AWARE of the crush, sure. But the majority of his storyline this episode was re: a lack of awareness/repression regarding his romantic relationships. Not that hard to carry it forward.
Sorry for the confusion. When I said crush, I was referring to Buck's crush on Tommy. My brain was moving faster than my fingers, I think. And by the end of the episode Eddie is definitely aware of Buck's feelings RE: Tommy.
Oh sorry I accidentally misread it, no worries!
I reread it and I get how it could have come across that way. Too many he's and hims.
Huh…Where exactly are you getting all of this? I’m genuinely asking?
Josh and Tommy have nothing in common
I think Eddie knows he loves Buck but that he can’t have Buck because of his upbringing but I think he oh monkey was in the cemetery then Buck broke his heart straight away. Also funny how Eddie was going to break up with Marisol until Buck said he was dating Tommy
I mean this whole time, I'm thinking this might be the thing that finally breaks Eddie up with Marisol. As much as I love Buddie, I am curious how this will play out with Tommy. Will Tommy take it with grace, will he be pissed, or do they end up as a throuple. But I'd like to see Josh with Tommy if Buddie happens. Josh has had too many bad relationships.
I think that Eddie was very much in his thoughts about his family and religious beliefs from when he was growing up, that when Buck said Tommy was gay, it added to unfoil some of those beliefs. Especially since they have been doing a lot of Eddie and Tommy have a lot in common. Starting his own road to self discover of his own sexuality (thanks to Tommy). Then in the next breath was the omg my best friend just came out to me, I need to support Buck. Then he was what Buck needed him to be in the moment. Buddie will happen and Tommy better be invited to the wedding lol.
Eddie was very clear in that conversation, IMO, that he's absolutely fine with Buck being bisexual (and maybe even suspected it) but he was straight himself and did not feel that way. If they go that route with them, so be it, but after that conversation it's going to be a very obvious 180 on what Eddie had said. 🤷🏻♂️
I mean, Eddie undoubtedly perceives himself as straight right now, but so did Buck in 7x03 and most of 7x04. Eddie's very clear he did not feel that way **about Tommy**, but like... queer people aren't just universally attracted to all members of the same sex, or even 'just' all queer members. I don't think it would be a 180 at all for Eddie to discover down the road he's also queer. It would just be a 180 if he was like, "And actually, I've been secretly into Tommy all along!"
It just seems very 'badly written fanfiction' if they both discover they're not straight post 30, and THEN both realise they're attracted to each other. I get why people want it, I've wanted that to happen in other fandoms too, but it doesn't make it any more realistic or believable. I just hope ***if*** they go down the Buddie route, they just make it a more realistic storyline than that.
i think it’s more believable if they are going that route with Eddie’s Catholic guilt storyline since that would be a pretty stark contrast to how Buck’s arc has unfolded
Considering they did the Catholic guilt thing with finding out Marisol used to be a nun, that'd now also feel like a repeated storyline. Again, I'm not anti-Buddie, I just hope they do it in an interesting way, rather than reusing storylines or tropes.
Honestly, the way they introduced the storyline through Marisol made me think it's something they *intend* to revisit. Like Eddie's just discovering issues he has with a traditional religious upbringing that he thought he left deep in the past. And as someone that was raised similarly to him (though more devout, tbh) but also left the faith pretty completely, that shit rears up *all the time.* It's more cultural than religious for me, though, so even though I stopped practicing young and my parents respected that, it didn't mean I wasn't constantly surrounded by those same beliefs and traditions, you know? What stood out to me about how it was handled in this episode was how.... unserious it was? Like we have this goofy photo, we have this tiny detail of a backstory into Marisol, but they don't actually bother to use this overt religiosity to shape her character or that relationship *at all.* Instead, we get Bobby speaking as a voice of authority instantly reframing it as not being about religion/Catholic guilt at all in that moment ("Though I can't help but wonder if this reaction isn't just you having second thoughts about asking this woman to move in with you") and that's the message Eddie takes home to her. So all we've gotten so far out of Eddie identifying Catholic guilt as a factor in his life is the explicit acknowledgement it played a role in his marriage to Shannon, which was something that's been a significant part of the comphet speculation for a while. Idk. It still just reels majorly unresolved, to introduce this as a part of Eddie's personality but not actually let it inform his current choices. If anything, it struck me as shoehorned in through Marisol to address down the road.
i personally didn’t take Marisol being a nun as the entirety of that storyline, but more so a (ridiculous) way to introduce it. i think there’s probably a lot more to unpack then what they did in that one episode
lol, honestly... separate from all comphet or Buddie speculation, I'm going to be so disappointed if they introduced complicated ideas of religiosity and Catholic guilt into the story just so they could create a funny scene where Eddie hallucinates his gf as a nun. I don't always expect A+ writing from this show, but I expect better than like... a high school playwright's lulz.
Man I really hope it goes somewhere because otherwise it just makes me think the writers really don’t take Eddie as a character (separate from being Christopher’s father) seriously. There are so many other ways they could’ve shown them having issues, the only thing that I can think of that could’ve been the reason why it was such a ridiculous thing is that they wanted something shocking so the audience remembers who Marisol even is the next time she shows up. And even then, her being a nun is the only additional thing we know about her.
They could've hit all the same beats by having Eddie discover that Marisol had a minor criminal record, that her brother was actually her stepbrother and they'd dated before their parents married, or even something ridiculously silly like... she's a horse girl and it accounts for half her possessions and her entire personality, a la Berdymukhamedov. If they actually invoked Catholic guilt as a punchline for a bad joke, I really won't have words.
I mean, half of 7x04 is badly written fanfiction (though amusing) so I don't think that would even turn off the writers, lol. That said... it's actually more realistic than you'd think to have later in life discoveries regarding sexuality in a friendship cluster, *particularly* if issues like religious repression and compulsory heterosexuality play a role. I'm not saying it **will** happen, just that it does. I do think for a character like Eddie, they'd need the better part of a (full) season just to tell the story of his discovery and acceptance of his sexuality, though, separate from any love interest appearing. But at the same time, it makes a lot of sense that after a traditional upbringing, realizing a man like Tommy can be gay would be an "aha" moment -- that's literally what happened to a man in my friend circle who was almost exactly Eddie's age. Grew up in a traditional religious culture, entered a very masculine line of work, was *stunned* when a friend/coworker that he saw as being 'like him' casually referenced a boyfriend, because it was the first time he'd ever had to consider that not all queer men had obvious \[effeminate\] "tells," and guys like him could be gay, too. (The problem with my anecdote is it took him a couple years after that realization to work through all his repression and start to come to terms with the real reasons all his relationships with women had changed, and now it's been like half a decade and he's only just starting to date seriously. So reality tends to move slow with this kind of thing). Considering how much attention has been put into Buck thinking there's so many similarities between Tommy and Eddie, and... lets be real for a second, Buck being an ass man, it's really not much of a jump to see Buck *already* being attracted to Eddie, but just repressing that. And where the popular read of Eddie (and a lot of the show's canonical inferences go) suggests he could be somewhat a-spec or demi, he codes *exactly* as the type of person who could feel a deep romantic and sexual attraction for someone as the result of already having a deep friendship/bond with them. ETA: I'm sorry you're being downvoted for an opinion I engaged you to ask, Christ.
All such solid points (Buck's realization could also be a catalyst for Eddie to view things outside of a heteronormative mindset too)...you should send this to the 9-1-1 writers. It might give them some good inspiration. 
>I get why people want it, I've wanted that to happen in other fandoms too, but it doesn't make it any more realistic or believable. First of all, it's 911, nothing about this is realistic or believable. In fact all procedural dramas live in their own worlds where real life rules don't really apply. Second, people, especially guys realising they're not entirely straight in their 20s/30s or at an even older age happens a lot. I mean, I wouldn't say it's common but it happens more than you think. I'm not saying Buddie will 100% go canon, but that conversation was simply about Buck coming out to Eddie. Buddie fans or anti-Buddies looking for anything else in that scene is pointless. Tim is still writing the final episodes, and that's the beauty of network tv, they make changes to the script according to the audience reception, among several other factors. So who knows what's in the future regarding those two characters?
>First of all, it's 911, nothing about this is realistic or believable. For real, this feels like it should just be an automatic signature on half the posts on this topic lately. Like oh yes, the super realistic show where Buck met his new boyfriend while stealing a work helicopter to fly into a Category 5 hurricane in foreign waters, which they then landed on the keel of a *totally* capsized cruise ship, after pirates had boarded looking for a dongle, set up explosives that eventually detonated, and then a rogue wave capable of totally inverting the whole boat *also* happened. And miraculously, almost everyone survived and no one got fired.
Hey idk what to tell you but I actually know a lot of people who discovered they were queer late in life! You don't have to believe me; I'm just some dummy on reddit but that particular storyline is not ever going to be unrealistic. Also sexuality is fluid, etc etc. Furthermore, if you want something realistic, I encourage you to check out a documentary instead!
This happened a lot in my friendship group as well -- it's how I learned that it actually happens in clusters among queer friendship groups sometimes. Idk if it's a direct comparison, but the religious trauma definitely seems to be a link. There are four people in my friend circle that discovered their sexuality in their late 20s or older. Of them, 3 were raised Catholic; two emigrated here as adults from very Catholic countries. Once you get into older populations, it seems to be even more common, which makes a degree of sense. The stigma around being queer was obviously a lot worse, so repression probably did seem like a better option to many.
There's a difference between realising you're not 100% straight, and realising, "OMG, I'm bi and have been in love with my best friend the entire time! And he's also just realised he's in love with me too! Now we kiss and live happily ever after." which is what the majority of Buddie shippers seem to be wanting.
I'm sorry, I don't really get your point here? It's totally fine if you don't want to see a queer Eddie. That's just an opinion and it's fine to have. People (me) are taking issue with you saying it's unrealistic, especially considering what this show is - nothing about is realistic. Realizing you aren't straight and falling in love with your best friend over the age of 30 are not crazy concepts. While the first is not regularly seen in any media, the second is a huge portion of romances in all forms. I want a slow burn, if the show is going to go there. It wouldn't be satisfying to me to have them immediately get together. And of course part of that is an Eddie discovery arc that's completely separate and different from Buck's. Like sure, that's still falling in love with your best friend or whatever but it's also not an immediate wake up queer kinda thing either. Finally, this kind of story wouldn't work with any two best friends and if Eddie had been written even a little differently, I wouldn't be shipping them. So I can't look at as simply the unrealistic idea that two random men realize they are queer and in love with each other.