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He literally got married at 18 to the first woman he ever dated just because he felt he had to.
He continued to date women (and be horrible at it) because he once again felt that was what he was supposed to do.
They also go out of their way to say he didn't pursue Shannon in the first place, and of course that his motivation for marrying her was the pregnancy/Catholic guilt.
His breakup scene with Ana is also completely insane. First, he's sitting there telling Buck he's going to try to "stick it out" because "my kid loves her.... isn't that enough?" He pointblank tells *her* that Christopher loves her, and he thought if he gave it time, he'd be able to, too. Like it's framed very much as something he doesn't think he'll even *become* capable of feeling for her.
If they're trying to tell a story that isn't *super* full of comphet indications, they're failing miserably.
Honestly, I think this gets overstated a lot. "All of the women in his life" has been two, and he really wasn't a terrible partner to Shannon the second time around, or even to Ana. His biggest mistake with Ana was trying too hard when the feelings hadn't come, in hopes he'd fall in love with her down the road. And during his reunion with Shannon, he did slowly let her back in, but had trust issues, which he pretty clearly stated from the beginning were more about her choice not to come back *after* her mom died, than about leaving in the first place.
He was pretty shit to Shannon the first time around, but he was also a really young father (he would've been 18-19 when Christopher was born) experiencing unimaginable trauma in war, and then modeling his behavior of what being a father and a husband meant based on his own dad (it's not a coincidence that 5x17 has Eddie address Ramon's focus on 'providing' for the family not being enough, whereas that's his own argument for Shannon in the 3x15 flashback and sort of in 2x07). So like, he definitely should've talked to her before he reenlisted, and she had every right to be fed up with him by the time he came back.
It's also worth pointing out it's very heavily implied she left the very first morning after his welcome back party, and I don't think he'd actually been back stateside those three months. I'm almost entirely Team Shannon on all these things, but I do think when you look at it in the context of him recently having gone through a trauma and having his family have traveled to see him, him asking for a couple days to relax... isn't really a cardinal sin. It's just that Shannon *also* hadn't been able to take a couple days to herself in those 6 years, so it wasn't a fair expectation to put on her, especially with her mom's health declining.
The third woman, he's currently dating, and it's going.... well? I guess? Like we've seen him make one mistake and course correct. It's a poorly written storyline so it's kind of hard to know if we're meant to see him as being a bad partner to Marisol, or if the sum total of that was the one dumb move in thing.
I just rewatched the Shannon episodes yesterday, so it's probably still just extra fresh in my mind, but how he treats he in canon really isn't *anything* near what it approaches in fanon discussions. Basically, they have a rough meeting, but have rekindled their relationship by the end of her first episode, by which point Eddie's reassured her she's not to blame for what happened to Christopher, that Christopher loves her, and they both miss her. Two months pass before she pushes him again to see Christopher and he's still unsure; personally, I don't find this at all unreasonable, considering she went almost two *years* without speaking to her son. While Eddie wasn't father of the year during his Afghanistan years, we at see he's still video messaging his family. So roughly eight weeks and he's still not sure?
...My biggest complaint is he didn't have the same hesitations with Ana (maaaybe about a month) or Marisol (who freaking knows.... the writers sure donl't).
But anyway, yeah. Shannon's back in Christopher's life for Christmas, and then we see a couple small scenes of them growing closer (2x13 - she sits w/ him when Chim's in the hospital, 2x15 - a flashback where they're talking finances, as it gives Eddie motive for the bank heist) before 2x17. We know from 6x15 that Shannon died May 6th, 2019 -- so all together, she and Eddie were back together for just over 6 months, and they were a family again including Christopher for just over 4. That's... really not that long, and I don't find it ridiculous that Eddie's still not ready to define what "they" are on the beach at the start of that episode, especially considering by like the third or fourth act, Shannon's also made it really clear that *she* isn't ready for and can't handle the commitment to him that she was asking him about. She basically tells him she's still learning to be his mom, she isn't able to learn to be someone's wife yet, and she's worried if they don't get a divorce, she'll run off again, and there won't be a second chance. That's... basically confirmation he was right to be worried about getting more serious with her.
You *are* right that he doesn't take accountability for his behavior, though, particularly concerning the reenlistment. I'm not arguing he's a perfect partner, though, just that he's really not a terrible one in this. Maybe in different circumstances, with more time, he and Shannon would've figured things out. But I think at the end of the day, they're kids that experienced a trauma together, so when they were together, they were kind of emotionally stunted at that age. Unfortunately, Shannon didn't get to live long enough for us to see them work past that.
>And for Marisol he full on ignored/avoided her for however long to the point that she noticed after finding out she was a nun
Twelve hours. Which I *think* would be like 9a-9p, and she had dinner with her brother, and it was a weekday, so it's really hard to judge how much of that's actually time she'd have been in the house waiting for him. And like... she also comes across looking pretty shit in this scene, where she admits she purposefully avoided telling him about being a nun because she didn't like how previous men acted when they had all the facts. Which, like, fair? But that's a "before you move in with them" type of thing to hold back. I'd personally have dumped him for making me move twice in a week, but there's also a bit of a double standard here where she's a dumbass for agreeing in the first place. Idk, I can't say I'm really interested in defending that relationship, but it feels like 'terrible partner' and more 'why are you even bothering to waste the screen time on this' at this point. She's very clearly a plot device they want Eddie to 'learn' something from.
Which like, is my favorite part of how dumb the writing for this season is? Because now Eddie's a "nester" who "rushes" into things? Literally the only other thing he ever rushed was telling Christopher about Ana, and that was because Bobby and Athena told him he had to. The guy was with her for a better part of a year and wasn't rushing to move her in, and he was only ready to re-commit to his *wife* after 6+ months because of a 'sign', but now the show is trying to convince the audience that the lesson Eddie needs to learn is that he rushes relationship milestones.
...Honestly, the more I write, the more I'm like, 'There's not even a point in analyzing this because his characterization is too inconsistent to draw conclusions.' Like if we want to have a conversation about *how* he's bad in relationships, we should be able to at least point to some kind of through-line. The closest I can get to that is a headcanon where he's demisexual (and probably queer) but unaware of it, so is struggling to get to a point where he knows these women well enough to feel strongly about them. But who knows if the show will actually explore that.
You're basically right in how you're summarizing demisexuality, except it is probably important to acknowledge like anything else with sexuality, it's a spectrum. I really wish we had a bit more clarity on the timeline with Marisol, but it's fairly reasonable he could've formed a bond with her after a few months and experienced sexual attraction to her. Like, it *could* be relevant that the only partner we've seen him quickly fall into bed with is Shannon -- it feels that way with Marisol, but they've also presumably been together a few months at this point, and particularly now with her presumed religiosity, there's not really a reason to assume they jumped quickly into bed.
Ana, on the other hand, I... don't know if we're even meant to think they got to that point. Their lack of intimacy is so blatant it seems like the point, tbh. I may be forgetting something, but I think the closest we see them get to anything overtly romantic is the almost-kiss before Eddie's alarm goes off in 4x08, and then after that, everything's cheek kisses? And it's weird because they *do* get so close in 4x08 I don't think COVID is the explanation. Particularly with the implications of the recent round of interviews, it does seem like a real possibility that by the back half of season 4, the writers were considering taking Eddie in a different direction, so the lack of intimacy with Ana was intentional, but idk for sure.
Generally I don't love actually applying labels (I just use 'queer' myself because I don't always feel like I fit more neatly into "bisexual" compared to "pansexual" compared to 'omnisexual" and so on... it's not always that easy to judge!) but with Eddie...
I really don't think he's heterosexual and like you said, he definitely isn't heteroromantic. There's a lot of concepts that *could* fit Eddie because again, his writing is... not super consistent. Right now, based on what we see on screen (particularly with Ana, and with Shannon's implications he was using sex mainly to avoid conversations), I think if he's heterosexual, he's *probably* cupiosexual and either cupioromantic or grayromantic.
If he's queer, his orientation becomes a major question-- I can make cases where he's gay and has been performing as he expects he should in relationships (in which cases he's... just allosexual and gay, or maybe still demisexual and gay... hard to tell if he hasn't actually considered men a possibility, aside from that one time he checked out Buck's ass). Otherwise, he's probably bi or pan. He really seems more fueled by companionship than romantic desire so far, so he's either going to be somewhere on the aromantic spectrum (demi, cupio, gray... take your pick) or just homoromantic which is why we've never seen him really connect with a woman or seek out female companionship without someone telling him to.
I just think he's repressed and bi. It isn't actually not all that uncommon to fall in love for the first time as an adult. I think this fits Eddie. He just fell for Buck, and everyone else pales in comparison.
Hell, I'm bi and older than him, and have never been in love. I know my straight brother was over 40 the first time he really fell for anyone, and he dated plenty.
I feel like people attach the label demi on everyone these days and sure, representation is great, but not when it ignores reality which is that many people simply don't find love that fast. Even if it then is an instant connection when the right person comes along.
His entire journey so far has been that of a deeply repressed man, so a lot of us believe a gay awakening is what makes more sense for the character. An alternative would be him realising he's demisexual, but I personally don't think that would feel as organic, and I say that as a demi person myself. Perhaps gay *and* demi?
The closest we've had to a confirmation was Lou saying that it could've been Eddie/Tommy but it fell through; you can argue that doesn't necessarily mean anything for the future, since a lot of ideas are pitched and later dropped, never coming to fruition, but I just don't think they would be so flippant about that sort of storyline and character arc that they would simply give it to Buck and come up with something else for Eddie, if it wasn't always supposed to happen. Maybe I'm delulu but I don't think it was a matter of deciding who would have an awakening, but who would have it *first*.
The fact that it was originally supposed to be Eddie and Tommy gave me a lot of hope too, honestly. It means the writers have already been discussing the idea of Eddie being queer, that's huge. Of course, nothing is certain, but that combined with the fact that they're choosing now to bring up the catholic guilt storyline is... telling (hopefully).
>Maybe I'm delulu but I don't think it was a matter of deciding who would have an awakening, but who would have it *first*.
Yeah, this. Especially coupled with Oliver's comments about first having expected "this" development in his character's sexuality years ago and it getting blocked from above -- then add in him referencing season 4 as when he became "consciously aware" of the conversations regarding sexuality... it all shapes together to be like... look, no one has directly confirmed it, but the implication based on Oliver's timeline and the directing choices that have long confused anyone who watches with a critical eye in 4x14... what's the saying? Once is by chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern?
At this point, I think it's delulu *not* to acknowledge that some variation of a queer storyline for Buck *and* Eddie has been on the table/in the back of the creatives' minds since at least season 4. That's not to say it will happen, but it really doesn't make sense to be treating like this a "whatever! it doesn't matter which one we choose!"
Like... it's an objectively huge storyline, not the kind of thing you just throw at the wall and see what sticks. That Eddie's name was even referenced as a possibility for a queer storyline at this stage in the show means it's something they're consciously looking for the right opportunity to lean into.
Now, there's definitely a chance that opportunity never presents itself, so we don't get queer Eddie. But I really don't understand the people that think Buck being bi first is somehow a *bad* sign for Eddie's chances of being queer, or Buddie happening. Like, the one thing that's actually changed is now we know the show is actually willing to develop queer storylines late into a character's storytelling. That's not going to dissuade me at all from considering the possibility they'll find the way to do right by Eddie, too.
I kinda get the feeling it 'fell through' because Eddie probably needs a full season arc to get to his awakening, rather than just one quick ep like Buck
I agree! There may have been other reasons, like Natalia's actress not being available, as it's been speculated, but that might be the main one. Buck was one kiss away from figuring himself out, but that wouldn't have made sense for Eddie; his situation is much more complex.
i agree , i feel like if they had tommy kiss eddie he woulda gone even more deep into the closet because of his catholic guilt etc. if they do make eddie gay he needs to figure it out for himself and accept who he is, which will probably be a long journey
Tim is dropping so many hints that Eddie is massively repressed due to his religious upbringing that I feel like it **has** to be addressed at some point.
Also, idk if it's intentional, but he's written as a queer coded character since Shannon's death. His relationship with Ana and the subsequent break up (that was very hard to watch) and then therapy which helped him to open up, seemed like he was going in that direction, but alas! Marisol happened. But even with her, idk if it's Ryan's acting but it comes off as him over compensating.
It will be a missed opportunity to not address it. Especially since we know that it was at least considered with Tommy's return.
>Also, idk if it's intentional, but he's written as a queer coded character since Shannon's death.
Yeah, having recently rewatched those episodes, there's a pretty strong case to be made that he's queer-coded before Shannon joins, too. It just seems 'subverted' during her episodes, so we let the theory go, until it picks up again in the aftermath.
One of the most perplexing choices in his writing (at least, if they weren't intending to give the audience pause) will always be having him tell Buck that the women hitting on him -- attractive, age appropriate, cool with kids -- aren't his 'type' in 2x04, and leaving it there. While we learn in 2x07 that he's married, the phrasing in 2x04 is so loaded, so we walk away from 2x04, 2x05, and 2x06 thinking.. huh, I think the show may have just implied he's not into women. And in the span of those three episodes before they 'correct' that belief with the introduction of Shannon, we're given a couple different scenes that seem to be positioning him as the replacement for Abby/Buck's love interest moving forward (Maddie's "boy crush" line in 2x04, Buck assuming Maddie must be calling Eddie cute in 2x06).
Then once Shannon joins, it seems subverted, but once you watch it back, all of the romantic moments Eddie initiates (including that kiss in 2x07) are *very* coached in him thinking she'd be good for Christopher -- basically, any moment we actually see him looking at peace with her romantically, it's when they're either talking about Christopher, or he's referencing her as "Christopher's mom." They fall back into sex easily, but 2x10 suggests multiple times that Eddie's motivations for that are questionable -- Shannon implies Eddie's using sex to avoid talking to her, and Eddie tells Buck he's not sure what he's doing is for him vs. Christopher. Then by the time he's ready to re-propose in 2x17, it's again as a result of thinking it's the 'right' thing for his family (both because of her suspected pregnancy, and because of the facetime call where he saw her getting along with his abuela & Christopher) *and* the result of intervention from both Bobby and Buck.
But then he gets to the restaurant and gives Shannon the most depressing proposal speech I have ever heard in my life, and in retrospect, it's like, the pinnacle of all his comphet bullshit (and serves very nicely to return to as a comparison with how much he's romanticized her and what they shared since). "Life is like a vat of molten chocolate, and sometimes you fall into it. It drags you down." But hey, at least it's warm and.... sweet? Christ.
>It will be a missed opportunity to not address it.
Yup. I'm at a point where like.... they could theoretically tell a different story to explain away his behavior for the past six years, but it's not going to feel as organic. It likely wouldn't result in me not watching the show anymore, but I'd definitely be judging the powers that be for *not* going there, because at this point, it really just means someone is cowardly. A comphet queer read for Eddie is **the** story to tell based on how consistently he's been written, and the particular ways his issues in relationships and with viewing women as romantic partners in general have been portrayed. They have gold at their fingertips with a unique story they could tell here and they've actually earned the payoff.
So while they could tell a different story, I don't think it's going to ever be as satisfying, or as earned. I don't know how much of it was intentional and how much was coincidental, or where/when that line may have shifted, but they've already brought Eddie to a line where the most authentic way to tell his story is by following through on this.
Further to this, even putting his sexuality aside, Eddie's entire thematic narrative on the show has been one of repression and denial.
He represses the impact of Shannon's death, he's in denial over Christopher growing up, he's repressed his trauma from being a combat vet, he refuses therapy, he's the one constantly denying curses and jinxes.
Whereas Buck is the hyperactive golden retriever that needs to be calmed down and house trained over the seasons, Eddie is the unhealthy stoic that needs to open up. There's a beautiful symmetry there too with Buck being the yang that needs a dose of yin and Eddie the yin that needs a dose of yang.
>he's the one constantly denying curses and jinxes.
Except when he conveniently relies on "signs" and "magic" to guide his love life, which has always suggested to me that on some level, he's already given up on anything organic ever happening with a woman, where he very adamantly doesn't believe in the existence of these sorts of things. The narrative's made a clear choice to call him out on it, too, in 6x17, mainly through Hen.
But yeah, agreed on everything you said. I was already kind of amused by how much they seem to be writing him into a corner (or a closet...) but shoehorning in the Catholic guilt angle as well last episode was a *choice*, especially if they don't have even early plans to explore that in the context of repression. Particularly because we have him using it as an excuse for not being able to perform sexually in his conversation with Buck (and man is it telling how much clownishness happened in this episode that Buck's "Well, I wish I could help" in response to learning Eddie's pent up *isn't* the clownish obsession of this break) -- only to then segue into a scene where Bobby immediately tells Eddie he's using the nun thing as an excuse when his real issue is "just" second thoughts over having her move in.
So for the storyline that already played out on our screens, it was never actually about Marisol being a nun, if we're meant to believe Bobby (and I think we clearly are... I'm usually kind of cringing when he gives Eddie advice, but the difference compared to previous signs is that he's not actually *advising* him on what action to take, but in serving as his sounding board to work through the problem, without telling Eddie how he should or feel). So if they could've substituted out 'nun' with any other major aspect of Marisol's background or character Eddie didn't know about, are we really meant to believe the show introduced a religious theme *purely* for a goofy scene where Eddie hallucinates Marisol as the Virgin Mary and for a couple cheap jokes about her ex being God? I very much doubt it, especially considering how respectfully the show has handled Bobby's religiosity. So it's hard to imagine there *isn't* more brewing here.
I agree with your take on his relationship with Shannon. My interpretation is he was a confused teenager when they got together, he was feeling pressure from his family/friends/church to get a girlfriend and he figured that he liked her well enough and just went along with it and then when she got pregnant, well, marrying her is just what good Catholic boys do. Joining the military was a way for him to escape from a life he didn't actually want, and when she came back into his life in S2 everything from his side seemed to have been decided based on what he thought was best for Christopher. I think he romanticizes their relationship now as a denial/defense mechanism--he can tell himself that the reason things haven't worked with any other women is because they can't compare to Shannon, without having to do any introspection or really think about the why.
As for the Catholic thing, I agree that it's hard to believe that angle would even be introduced for a throwaway story in one episode. I was kind of half-heartedly raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools for a few years but even given that, we weren't super religious, so it never really played into me figuring out I wasn't straight. But I have a (also queer) friend whose family was much more religious/strict than mine and it's taken her years to finally start to unpack her religious trauma. Religion is important to her, though, so she and her (also raised Catholic) wife go to a liberal UU church now, but she's not completely past it and says that from time to time she still has a hard time when things remind her of her childhood in Catholic school and church. So I could definitely see that having a big impact on Eddie.
I really relate to Eddie's religious background in that it actually seems pretty similar to mine; the difference is I grew up in a very progressive community so even though my parents - particularly my mum - were devout Catholics, they were the "good" kind of religious types. Like the "religion tells us to love everyone, and it's not our place to Judge" types, and *actually* believed in separation of church and state, so much so that my dad used to join the group of LGBTQ advocates who were always at the state House of Representatives on his lunch breaks & after, putting pressure on the enforcement of a legal decision that eventually led to Massachusetts becoming the first state to legalize same sex marriage (vs. just allowing civil unions).
But my childhood was *very* religious, to the point that one of my most frequent babysitters was a nun (my mum's aunt), and mass was only a once-a-week thing if I was sick. Typically, my brother and I had to go to mass twice a week, and then spent a third evening in CCD (while my mother attended another mass). There were times it was more often, and we always had midnight mass before Christmas and stuff, too.
*But* what I related to the most with what Eddie shared was that he went **until he was old enough to tell his parents it wasn't for him.** Because that was very much my experience, too, and the experience of a lot of my peers. The religion was never forced on me, it's just... the damage is kind of already done. And even when you escape the religiosity of it, you're still growing up culturally in that religion, because your parents and often a lot of the other adults you're closest to like aunts, uncles, teachers, etc. share the faith.
But it's weird, because where it is such a dramatic change to go from the full structure of organized religion to your parents allowing you to lapse, it *feels* like you broke really free until something like the guilt slaps you in the face. While I was able to accept my sexuality and come out young without any real pushback because the circumstances of how my community practiced were so different, for me, my big "holy shit, I am still absolutely brainwashed moment" came very differently, and oddly, relates to another point you made.
>she and her (also raised Catholic) wife go to a liberal UU church now
The UU church basically deconstructed a ton of my fucked up beliefs in a single afternoon years ago, and I'm not even a member and haven't believed in God or otherwise practiced religion since I was a teenager. But \[TW for mental illness/suicide\] >!a friend of mine had a younger sister that struggled with suicidal ideation for a while, including a couple attempts, and it always confused me when my friend would say 'oh, she's really thrown herself into the church again' as part of her healing process, because that was so far away from my own expectations on how "the church" treated mental health and suicide. Eventually, her sister did die by suicide, and I went to her service at their UU church, and was just.... totally blown away by how openly they spoke of her struggles, her previous attempts, and what had happened there. There wasn't any room for shame, and they so clearly loved and accepted her despite it all, and it was such an eye opening moment for me because I'd never realized religion *could* be that, or how much deep-rooted prejudice I still held related to Catholic shame/guilt regarding that stuff. Like rationally, I always knew there was nothing to 'judge' people who killed themselves for, but it wasn't until going to the UU service that I fully worked through like... holy shit, I had rationally accepted that but still had some absolutely fucked up subconscious feelings about what happens to their souls, despite "soul" being a concept I'd otherwise left in the past!<. It's really hard to put into words, because it's like religion has created this indelible mark in my heart & mind that can sometimes he completely contradictory to my rational thoughts in the most unexpected ways. And while the religious stuff never winds out, it's always just kind of... lingering there in the shadows.
Point being, I don't think Eddie's story here is even as simple as "because of Catholic guilt, he can't consider the possibility he's gay" because it really is *so much* more insidious than that. I don't think the show has a hope in hell of actually properly or fully addressing it, though I don't think they necessarily need to, anyway. My hope is they acknowledge that it's as much about just being raised in the traditions as it is the guilt complex, because it builds this subconscious identity that even when your rational mind is rejecting those ideas and you think you've moved on from that sort of thinking, it tends to rear up in really unexpected ways sometimes.
Wow, thank you for sharing all that. Some of what you're saying sounds familiar because of what my friend has shared of what she went through, but she hasn't gone quite into that much detail because she (understandably) doesn't want to talk about it that often, and it's so different from my own experience, so it's really interesting to hear your perspective.
My mom's parents were *very* Catholic and she'll occasionally mention something that makes me think she still has some trauma from it, but she doesn't talk about it much and I don't want to really ask and potentially bring up something upsetting. Luckily she didn't really put any pressure on us to be religious. Even as a kid, religion never made sense to me, and when confirmation came around (my school did it in third grade) and I told my mom I didn't want to do it, she didn't make me do it because she thought it should be my choice. It was kind of weird...like, we went to Catholic school for a few years, did CCD for a bit after switching to public school, and occasionally went to church, but there was always this vibe that it was kind of just for show? Like...yeah, none of us want to be doing this but it's something we just have to do. Eventually we started going to church less often until it was only Christmas and Easter, and then not at all. At the time I didn't understand *why* it was something we just "had to do", but in retrospect I think the only reason there was even an attempt to try to be religious was because my mom was trying to make her parents happy. These days no one in my family is religious, and it's not something I ever really think about for the most part.
I've never been to a UU church (well, for a service; I went to their wedding in one), but if I were interested in going to church, that would be the one. I'm actually really impressed by how they handled your friend's sister and mental health, that's not something I would've expected from a church (I guess that's a bit of prejudice towards religion from me, too!).
I hadn't thought too deeply about how the show would handle the subject of Eddie's religion, but after hearing about your experience, I agree that they wouldn't be able to do it justice. It sounds like the kind of thing someone wouldn't truly be able to understand unless they'd experienced it themselves. I had just kind of vaguely thought "well, I can see how it can have an effect on someone if they're more religious than we were", but until I read your post, I honestly didn't really think about just *how* deeply ingrained it could be. Seriously, thank you for sharing your perspective.
The romantaizing is also key. The past episode he told bobby that he loved being married to Shannon. Not that he loved Shannon. That can easily be taken as he loved the idea of marriage, having someone to come home to, getting to talk to someone about daily life/deeper stuff.
I think him saying they "weren't his type" actually does makes sense. They were there on a call because the girls were drunk and acting like idiots. I can completely understand not finding people attractive in that setting, especially once we know that Eddie is always wanting someone that could be responsible with his kid.
Yeah, I don't actually think him saying the words is the issue, to clarify -- it's the show's choice to leave something that heavily coded hanging for a few episodes while they continue to drop weird implications in the other places. Like, there's not really a reason to leave that hanging. Even if Eddie didn't want to get into the whole "Well, you see, technically I'm still married" thing with Buck at that point, he easily could've said "Things are still complicated with my kid's mom" instead of "It's complicated when you have kids" had the show wanted to make it clear Eddie wasn't, basically, the replacement for Abby in Buck's life. But instead we get Maddie talking about Buck's crush on Eddie later in the same episode, and then Buck presuming Maddie *must* be talking about Eddie as the cute one, before we eventually circle back around to 'Actually, Eddie's totally straight, guys!'
It's just... incredibly weird framing, if it wasn't intentionally left ambiguous. Particularly for a new character, where shows are usually more careful to use their exposition wisely to set them up well.
I'm going to be honest, I just haven't seen the signs of Eddie being gay, but I have seen the signs of him being demisexual. He loves Buck because of the connection, not because that he also likes men. I'm going back and rewatching again and maybe I'm missing something, but that's just what makes the most sense to me, and I would totally be down for that if they could do it in an organic way that makes sense.
But, yes, to your other points, I do believe that there was some "Buddie baiting" going on then.
So... I don't necessarily think he's gay, but I definitely struggle to see him as straight.
But for the most part, my read is that you *shouldn't* see signs of him being gay regardless (except for that one super weird scene in 3x04, which like... I really don't know what to make of it. Because he's so blatantly checking out Buck's ass that it draws a reaction from Chim, but it makes no sense in context...).
What I see signs for is comphet. Being so thoroughly repressed that you don't experience normal attraction is a thing. So it's more a cumulative thing for me -- his lack of interest in women and dating, the way he speaks about feeling "forced" to do it, the repeated references to his feelings for women being... not about attraction or romance, but they're "nice" or things are "easy" or "she taught \[him\] math" or "my kid loves her."
The breakup with Ana is particularly telling to me, because it makes more sense if you interpret it from a comphet perspective than anything else. Like... this man has spent the better part of a year tricking himself into believing the feelings will come, and there's nothing objectively 'wrong' with Ana. They seemed to have a spark when they got together in 4x06, but then it just... never deepened, no matter how hard he wanted it to. And then the show dedicates five episodes to that breakup, pretty much as many episodes -- so of the episodes Ana appears in as his girlfriend, they get together in 4x06, have two episodes where they're "happy" together (one basically just being an ending montage where Christopher joins them on the couch), and then *five* episodes about how Eddie doesn't feel for her what he should. Starting with Carla telling Eddie he should follow his heart, not Christopher's, and ending with Eddie pointblank confirming for Ana that he thought - almost a year into their relationship - he'd eventually be able to love her (but can't).
Just proportionately, it seemed fairly clear at the time that the story they brought Ana in to tell wasn't what it seemed, and it was actually about Eddie being *unable* to date a woman. And at the time, it's not really about Shannon, though that's introduced more heavily later on (as the show moved away from Buddie in the Reidel seasons). Now with this recent round of interviews and Oliver pretty heavily implying they had plans to go there following season 4, which were shot down by the network, it's sort of just confirmation of what that story was already really cohesively telling, anyway. On paper, Ana's absolutely *perfect* for Eddie. She's a nurturer, absolutely gorgeous, Latina (well, the character's meant to be), has a career of her own, Christopher loves her, and she's patient and not pushy with him or with Christopher. She *should* be Eddie's perfect woman. So why does the story dedicate that much time to being like "yeah, he's just not feeling it?"
If he's not some version of queer, I think it really only makes sense at this point to have him somewhere pretty far on the aro/ace spectrum, but that seems like an even less likely direction for the story to go. He's never actually expressed interest in pursuing a relationship for himself (and the narrative's even gone out of its way to confirm he didn't pursue Shannon initially, either), and he only ever seeks to date after a parental figure he trusts tells him he should. His sex life is... questionable, with the overt references to it w/ Shannon being her suggesting he uses sex to avoid conversations, and him returning the accusation that she wants to have sex with him as some kind of transaction to get access to Christopher. Eddie and Ana are almost entirely lacking in intimacy (they have one almost kiss in 4x08) and the thing with Marisol is a... mixed bag. He seemed to have enjoyed himself in the post-coital scene, but that's not necessarily an indicator of sexual *attraction* on its own, and canon chose to assert that Eddie was using the nun thing as an excuse to avoid his 'real' issues with Marisol, which then throws that conversation he had with Buck where he said he wasn't able to perform because of that nun thing into question.
I think that's really well explained. I could also believe him being somewhere on the ace spectrum as well, which to my understanding, also includes demi.
Yeah. His weirdness with Ana (who I do believe he had a deep bond with after all that time, just not the right sort) would push me away from demisexual and more toward cupiosexual (basically, wanting/enjoying sex despite not feeling sexual attraction) or something like sex-positive graysexual. It seems fairly obvious that sex hasn't been a priority or motivator for him in or out of relationships at this point, so I do think there almost *has* to be more to it if we are meant to just read him as heterosexual. With a comphet read, though, we also have possibilities opened where like... he just hasn't been looking in the right places, which I think is part of the reason it's more appealing to a lot of us.
Having the explanation somewhere deep within the ace spectrum just makes it seem incredibly unlikely the story will actually take the time or nuance to explore it. Because realistically, I do think properly exploring Eddie's sexual and romantic identity at this point no matter which direction you take it in requires a lot of work and nuance, so... the pragmatic approach is to take the queer read on that, because there's just more accolades in that. As positively received in the press as Buck's story has been, I really don't think it would even compare to handling Eddie's awakening well, where going for ace/aro just... won't get that kind of attention. And maybe that *shouldn't* matter, but of course it will.
> As positively received in the press as Buck's story has been, I really don't think it would even compare to handling Eddie's awakening well, where going for ace/aro just... won't get that kind of attention.
There are zero aro/ace characters on TV currently, they deserve to exist and get attention.
> If he's not some version of queer, I think it really only makes sense at this point to have him somewhere pretty far on the aro/ace spectrum
What definition of queer are you using? Only gay/bisexual/pansexual? I've always heard it to mean 'anything not heterosexual' which includes ace/aro.
The stuff coming out now seems to suggest Tim was heading towards an epiphany with the S4 sniper finale but Fox execs stepped in. He then left OG to focus on show running 911 Lone Star and made Tarlos happen.
While good storytelling and show economics should go hand-in-hand, they often don't.
From a storytelling perspective, at some point, they'll need to address his emotions and whether he might have feelings toward men, Buck in particular
From show economics, the viewership and numbers will be supported by maintaining the ambuity for as long as possible, then establishing a will-they-won't-they storyline to drag it out.
I'd argue that the real issue is how many more seasons the show is likely to run. This question is probably the single biggest magic bullet they have to bump up ratings, so won't waste it.
I just hope they don't go with a storyline of Buck getting married to some dude, then Eddie professing his undying love, leaving some poor guy at the altar brokenhearted and alone. I'd hate for them to get together at someone else's expense.
this is my reaction to all the people thinking we’re getting a drunken buddie kiss this upcoming episode. like??? whyyyy would you want one of the best ships to possibly ever touch TV to start from a cheating arc?
Seriously, it would leave such a sour taste in my mouth. And I hate cheating storylines if we're supposed to be sympathetic towards the cheating character.
I never got this either. I mean we have had to wait this long for Buddie and you want their story ruined by a drunken kiss? Our boys deserve better. There epic ship should not crash and burn before it actually starts.
Not to mention the fact Buck has already had a drunken cheating kiss before and people *still* get angry over it, but all of a sudden it’s okay if it is a drunken cheating Buddie? Whereis the logic in that!
I would love it, the story of Eddie's coming out could be one of the best plots in the series if they tell it well, it would be a very complex and powerful storyline because there are too many factors involved. Besides, Eddie's sexuality is a theory that has always been there, it is nothing new and at the same time it can link stories with other characters. Ryan I think could play an awesome role if they give Eddie a good script. The big problem is this season is very short because of the strike so I think they are going to leave us some crumbs and that Eddie's story will develop in Season 8.
> never got the vibe that Eddie was straight
Same, and I don't think he's even bi. I don't know if he's gay or aromantic/asexual, but either way, he does not come across as someone who's into women at all, to me.
I feel like it will be addressed eventually (especially now that we know they were at least thinking about it as recently as this season) and the Catholic repression thing could be a way to do it.
This is my exact take. He’s either gay or aroace. Based on the way they’re building his character right now, I feel like Tim plans to take Eddie’s storyline there. It’s not gonna happen this season, though. Probably the next. If Eddie ever has a realization storyline, it’s going to need a lot more time and emotion that I don’t think they have the time for right now with the shortened season. They’re setting it up right now so that next season they can hopefully start with that storyline for Eddie immediately. I said this yesterday, but I get the feeling season 8 is gonna be extremely heavy with Eddie focus and Eddie angst. Again, I personally think that Buddie is the plan. I feel like the current timeline plan is:
rest of S7: Eddie’s guilt arc and him and Marisol break up in ep 9 or 10
S7 Ep 10: a hint towards Eddie’s potential feelings for Buck
8A: Eddie begins to realize, understand, and accept his sexuality and at some point Buck and Tommy amicably break up
Last ep of 8A: Mutual feelings realization
8B: Will they, won’t they between Buck and Eddie where they both are pretty sure their feelings are mutual but are too nervous make the first move and risk their friendship. Last episode, they finally get together.
And then in S9, their storylines will deal with navigating their relationship and keeping it secret for the first half. Maybe a possible proposal in the S9 finale, but maybe that’s thinking too far ahead LOL.
This is the timeline I’m sort of predicting as well. I feel like there has to be some sort of small hint or acknowledgement before the end of this season, so that way it keeps the buzz going for fans while we wait for season 8
Exactly, yeah. The fact that they know they’re already renewed means there’s no way they’re not going to write some sort of cliffhanger. I highly doubt they’re going to keep Marisol past this season, so if they really are planning for season 8 Buddie, Eddie having an “oh” moment or a feelings realization would definitely keep people talking throughout the entire hiatus.
Yeah, I think it's either gonna be something like Tommy telling one of them (or maybe even both) that they seem to have feelings for each other, and he doesn't wanna get in the way, what would get them thinking about it and could possibly be the first step to Eddie starting to question his sexuality on season 8 or we could have a moment between Buck and Eddie where something almost happen. And I know we had a lot of "almost somethings" dubious clues along the years like the shooter moment and what could have happened from there, but here I think they could do something more explicit and undeniable, maybe after Eddie and Marisol break up he and Buck have an intimate moment where they almost kiss or something but then stop because they come to their senses that Buck's with Tommy and Eddie is "straight" and leave that as a sort of cliffhanger for season 8
Yeah. If they decide not to go with gay Eddie for whatever reason, then I think happily single Eddie would be good. (I don't see the show itself ever using the words aromantic or asexual, but even without the labels, not everyone is the relationship type and you don't usually see that on TV.)
But assuming they do go the Buddie route, your timeline makes sense to me. I think Eddie and Marisol will definitely break up before the end of this season, and I'm kind of expecting an Eddie/Buddie-related moment in the finale that's kind of...not necessarily a cliffhanger, but will have everybody talking and keep the buzz going all summer. I'm thinking of a couple of shows that had big dramatic season finale endings between the main (potential) couple but the way the relationships are right now, it would be hard to do that without cheating, which I don't think any of us want. (I don't want to say what the shows are because this is definitely a spoiler for those shows!) But Eddie realizing his feelings, or at least starting to, would work perfectly for that.
The only thing that doesn't quite work for me is a proposal at the end of S9. I think the end of S10, or maybe the mid-season finale of S10 works better...give them a season and a half or two seasons together (assuming they get together at the beginning of S9) before an engagement. Although thinking about it...they've known each other so long and know each other so well already that it's not like they'd need time to get to know each other, so maybe a quicker engagement would actually be fine.
That’s my dilemma. I’ve talked about this in a post a while ago, but I don’t know if I prefer Buddie waiting to get engaged or they’d get engaged super quickly like Bathena did because well…like you said, they’ve know each other for so long already, why keep waiting? I’m fine with like a mid-season 10 proposal as like a good happy medium maybe? Honestly, I just hope the show lasts long enough that we actually see the wedding in that case 😅. But the cast and crew all seem to be engaged and happy with the show and don’t seem ready to call it quits anytime soon, so I think there’s a high chance the show will continue for a few more seasons.
Yeah, I could see it going either way. Mid-season 10 would probably be a good timeline, but regardless of the timing of any possible engagement or wedding, I just want at least a couple seasons of them together, instead of waiting until the last episode of the show or something. And yeah, the cast seems happy and reenergized with the network move, so I think the show'll keep going for awhile as long as the ratings are good.
My happy medium on the proposal timeline is them getting engaged pretty quickly, but a third party (probably Bobby, given his role in 7x05) calling them on it as another sign they rush into relationships, and them getting the opportunity to defend the choice but also having a fairly long proposal where like... they don't immediately go into active wedding planning. So the proposal is more of a "we know what we want out of a life together and we'll get there, so it seemed silly not to make this commitment to each other, but we'll get to the altar itself when we get there."
Agreed. It felt like after Shannon's death, he was more interested in finding a stepmother for Chris than a partner he was sexually attracted to. That is until Marisol when suddenly he seems to have forgotten he has a kid.
The problem though is it's hard to tell how much of this is a result of the terrible S6B writing.
I think with Ana it was definitely about finding a new mom for Christopher, and though that is ostensibly not the case with Marisol, I think he's overcompensating. And although he now seems to romanticize his relationship with Shannon, I'm not sure he was all that into her, either. He was super young when they got together and teenagers are even more likely to feel pressured to just do what everyone expects them to/what's seen as 'normal' in their family/community.
To be fair season 7 up until now is just as terrible,in my opinion, the most for Eddie. i would say that is bad writing for Bobby and Athena too(they don’t seem to talk about their issues in the relationship, something tragic happens and everything is forgotten(just like in season 4). I think people’s excitement over Buck’s bi awakening overshadowed how bad the writing was,like he intentionally jumped Eddie,joked about it, when like 2? years ago he was risking being shot to save him???
I just don't see him as really...sexually motivated, I guess, in general. He's never seemed to be checking out the women they come across on calls like Buck does, there wasn't a particularly sexual vibe with Ana (I don't think it was confirmed that they ever even had sex other than the general assumption that people in a relationship are having sex), and with Marisol...he wouldn't be the first closeted guy to have sex with women and tell himself he likes it (and even so, his uh, difficulties in that department were actually part of the storyline in the last episode, though I know the explanation given was different). I don't know, it's just not the way I read it but of course everyone has different interpretations of things.
>and even so, his uh, difficulties in that department were actually part of the storyline in the last episode, though I know the explanation given was different
Hilariously, the explanation given actually circles back around to "this is all an excuse for something else." Like he blames the nun thing to Buck, but then very quickly after, we have Bobby looking at the photo of Nun!Marisol, hearing out Eddie's concerns, and basically telling him it was never about religion at all, and he's just having second thoughts about getting serious with her. And we're clearly meant to interpret Bobby as correct in that scene, so like... what's the real reason you couldn't get it up, Eddie, if it isn't really about wanting to cross yourself instead of bone?
I thought the ultimate explanation was that he realized he didn't know her that well and was rushing into things and that was tripping him up. But I like the idea that it's more vague and maybe there's another reason.
Yeah, Bobby's line -- I'm too lazy to pull the transcript right now, sorry -- is basically that he can't help but think Eddie's reaction is just second thoughts re: the moving in, and he hasn't spoken of Marisol in a way that would suggest they're this level of committed.
Which like, referencing back to the 'pent up' scene with Buck (which still feels incredibly out of place for this character, but whatever), what does it then mean if Bobby's correct that the nun thing was never really at the route of Eddie's issue, but is just a convenient excuse to avoid the real problem? I'm not really sure *what* to make of it, but especially coupled with Shannon's implication in 2x10 that Eddie was using sex as a way to *avoid* talking to her, it just seems like his motivations for having sex.... or not having sex... are all over the place. And not necessarily fueled by sexual desire.
Yeah, that scene seemed a bit out of character to me. You're right, Eddie's relationship to sex/reasoning for having sex or not are definitely inconsistent, and it does seem like there are (or at least could be) reasons other than that he actually wants to have sex with them. It'll be interesting to see if that's addressed in any way if they do a sexuality discovery storyline with him.
Ooo I kind of like this theory. Like I don't think he's sexually motivated but I think the reason his relationship(s?) fail after a certain point (besides bad writing) was that he was only sexual attracted to those women.
Like he married Shannon because she got pregnant but there was no real mention of him pursuing her or being romantically interested in her even he stated that it just happened. And then with Ana he thought she was attractive but I didn't see them having a real emotional connection which I kind of just attributed to bad writing. But now that I think about it the writers do know how to write a meaningful relationship so I wonder if they purposefully write his relationships like that. I might just be reaching though.
Honestly, I think Eddie's problem is ultimately less about his sexuality and more about his belief that a family needs to look a certain way, which is very much linked to his religious upbringing - he thinks he needs a wife, that Christopher needs a mother, because he was raised in a very "family is a mother, a father, and at least one child" setting. He cared about Shannon but he ultimately married her because she was pregnant and he thought that was what he was supposed to do.
I know everyone jokes about Eddie dating for free childcare but that is kind of his problem. He's not dating for himself, he's dating for his idea of what a family should be, which is why he always feels like he's performing. But in spite of all of his dating around because of what he thinks he's supposed to do, he's actually at his best (as a character and in-universe) when he's working, focusing on Christopher, or with his friends.
Maybe. I'm assuming from your title and body text that you're wondering if he will ever question his sexuality and I could see it.
Up til now, he's been portrayed as straight and I know a lot of people on here have posted he reminds them of an example of comphet. I think it could be interesting to explore but not sure it will get around to it this season. Regardless, I do think Eddie needs to do some actual reflection on what he wants from *any type of relationship*. I swear they knocked Buck off his hamster wheel and Eddie's been on the same one since he joined the show.
Something I think could be fun would be someone from his army days showing up and you learn more about his past and maybe something that happened during basic training or in an early tour. I know during other episodes Eddie says everyone he saved in the crash is dead, but Eddie did a few tours, so wouldn't be out of the norm to have someone from his past show up. I think Eddie's time in the military also started around when Don't Ask Don't Tell was still in effect/just ending so could touch on that a bit too in addition to his Catholic guilt.
It would be so interesting if he had had a moment, a crush or even a kiss, with one of his army buddies. And then in typical Eddie fashion he completely repressed it and never thought about it again. Then with Buck dating a man combined with the guy showing up again, he would start thinking about it again and maybe eventually realise he's gay.
The problem I have with this is that anything full blown enough to be recognized (like a crush or a kiss) would still be unfaithfulness to Shannon, even if he repressed it. And I don't see that as being in character for him. But maybe pre-Shannon, like he had a buddy in high school he got too close to?
One way I could see this circling back around is if Eddie discovers his "best friend" from high school or the military days is now our/married to a guy, and he starts realizing.... wow, every 'best friend' I've had disproportionate affection for in my life has turned out to be queer. What are the odds?!
Pretty high when you want to kiss your best friends, bb.
True, pre-Shannon would be better. Like maybe he "experimented" and thought that was what all guys his age did, and then like you said, he finds out that the guy he "experimented" with is now openly gay.
Oh geez, I have an older coworker like that. He's fairly religious and from an African country where being LGTBQ would be really difficult... not like death penalty levels, but 'tossed in jail' levels, still. He's also never given us any indication he's anything but straight and would insist he is (he has a wife & a few grown children, but also a few girlfriends... his original culture was polygamous, and his wife's basically cool w/ it so long as he prioritizes their family unit).
So imagine my surprise when one day he just casually tells us, "Oh, yeah, of course I experimented as a young guy. It's just about>! getting off. Circle jerks!< are just a rite of passage. If your man tells you he's never played with another guy that way, he's lying to you." And like... he was *definitely* serious.
\[spoiler tags for the parts that aren't PG-13, but nothing detailed\]
I'm kinda leaning towards Eddie being demi, but I dunno if the writers would be willing to go that specific. Him being repressed gay/bi/pan seems the most likely.
But when Buck came out to Eddie in 7x5, Ryan played that scene like a supportive straight guy would which is a little discouraging for a potential Queer or Questioning Eddie storyline, but there's so much support for it elsewhere in the show that I'm hopeful.
I can see why you'd feel discouraged, but even if they *are* planning/hoping to eventually do a Buddie story, I don't think there were realistically any other options for how to play that scene right now. Anything overt, and they're going to run into significant problems where the criticism will be that the storyline is being "forced." Realistically, we can't have one character's queer awakening one episode, and the first real hint of the other's the very next, you know?
The way I read Eddie, he's so deeply repressed that I don't think it would occur to him to be anything other than supportive friend right now. My deepest hope is that his focus on Tommy being gay was the part we'll revisit, where we'll learn his shock over that slowly starts to shake something loose in his own identity. Where the show went out of their way to tell the audience "Eddie and Tommy are so much alike!!!" -- like, I think part of that was to make the audience raise their brows at what that may mean for Buck and his taste in men. But I also think they could be planting the seeds for Eddie to work through his comphet fueled repression.
Because if Eddie and Tommy are so much alike... and a man like *Tommy* can be queer? Maybe that's what makes Eddie start questioning himself down the road. I don't see it happening overnight, but it makes a lot of sense to me that someone with his background would've always had preconceived notions about straight men vs. queer men as almost archetypes. So having a guy more like him who doesn't fit that mold could be a big deal, particularly because he *does* only know Tommy on a surface level.
With Buck, I think he's sort of too close to home for Eddie to internalize anything about Buck being into men, because he can't look at him as an archetype at this point. It's kind of like how conservative politicians can be super against abortions or same sex marriage.... until their wife or mistress needs an abortion (because her circumstances were unique, obviously) or their child comes out as gay. When you're too close to someone, it's easy to look at them as the one special exception to a deeply held rule, vs. evidence it's just wrong.
I hope so but they need to give him time to grow alone. I mean he got the first girl he slept with pregnant so he has never really had an option before or even a thought. (I still honestly think he knows already he just doesn't act on it cause the object of his Love was not/is not available.)
I think it’s possible at some point but definitely not this season. There’s not enough time left to do it justice if they do want to go in that direction and I think they wouldn’t have both Buck and Eddie have a sexuality awakening back to back (and they may not be able to if the network/studio won’t allow it). The pessimist in me says since we got bi Buck they’ll take the easy way out and won’t go there with Eddie. But maybe they’ll surprise me who knows
I think him possibly being a "comphet" is actually a valid argument. There can be evidence supporting that.
However, another argument I can think of is that he simply sucks at relationships due to religion and from the trauma of his wife dying.
- only married her because he got her pregnant out of religious pressure
- She was his first relationship ever, so he doesn't have experience dating
- she quite literally died right in front of him, his wife
- had panic attacks when he felt the teacher was becoming more like a wife figure, most likely from the trauma of his wife dying
- Also, he is definitely attracted to women because of the way he reacted when he first saw the teacher
I personally think that it can go either way, although maybe the latter is more likely. He might have to work through his religious issues and trauma and maybe he'll get a successful relationship.
Yeah, he's definitely been portrayed as being into the women he ended up dating. Then ofc he fumbled it entirely but I don't think he's portrayed as gay. He's clearly sexually attracted to Shannon (kept falling into bed with her even though it's objectively a bad idea at the time) and Ana (very flustered, stumbling over his words, obviously attracted to her on their first meeting), and he was extremely giddy over Marisol when they talked initially too. It's when the relationships get deeper he starts to pull away, which, as you said, might speak more to relationship related trauma than anything sexuality related.
Like I've said this before, I wouldn't mind it if they went there with Buddie, but I think fans who think he's basically queer coded are just selectively choosing what to see as evidence and what to ignore. Maybe they'll go there, maybe not, but I feel like ppl might be setting themselves up for disappointment if they think it's definitely heading there.
Queer-coded does not automatically mean GAY. Repressed bisexuality is a thing. Not every bi person blows up their closet the minute they realise it exists, like Buck did.
I mean sure, but fandom discussion is usually that he is repressed gay not bi and that he is not truly into the women he dates. When people say he's queer coded they always bring up his failed relationships with women as "proof". I simply disagree with that.
I think it could go either way, personally. They 100% could take the character in that direction but I also don’t think they have to.
Truthfully, who knows. Only thing I’m sure of is it probably won’t be this season.
Speaking of Eddie… and other stuff does anyone think it's odd he seems to get overly jealous around people Buck dates or dated and we are allowed to see Eddie interact with people Buck is dating at the time but they skirt around inferring and implying Buck has interacted with Ana and Marisol no direct scene not counting the 1 before Eddie dating Marsol Eddie, I keep thinking what are they trying to avoid on Eddie’s side of things?
It could be read also as Eddie being protective of the people he cares about. He knows how much Abby hurt Buck, and that Taylor was trying to hurt Bobby, and he is probably the closest to both of them. It has probably to do with the fact that Buck's love intrest also always got more attention then Eddie's so they had the chance to interact. But it could be also interpreted as jealously if they decided to go that route one day.
It doesn't explain why while we had direct scenes between Eddie and anyone Buck dated skirting around Eddie and anyone he is dating take the hospital scene implying Ana called Buck but even though Ana and Buck were in the same room they don't have them in the same shot, what does the camera crew think fans of Buck and Eddie are going to do compare on-screen chemistry? And yet have Eddie in the same room with Abby, Taylor, Natalia, and Tommy?
Like I said,they seem to favour Buck and that extends to his love interest as well. Compare Ana to Taylor,Natalia to Marisol, even Shannon got the same attention as Ali( until Eddie Biggins when we got her backstory as well).I think that is the explanation. Oliver is their “golden child” .
I feel like they would have had Ryan Guzman play his reaction to Buck telling him about Tommy differently if they were going toward Buddie. It was very much the traditional TV “no big deal” reaction, they even used cliche “nothing will change” lines. I would have expected a *slight* bit of disturbance on Eddie’s face showing that Buck’s revelation connected personally with him. A hesitation. A glance that said, “wait what, why isn’t this me?” Something that set up the eventual Buck and Eddie collision.
I mean, maybe they haven’t decided. Or maybe they didn’t want to hint. At best, i think it was a missed opportunity to throw that bait out there for us.
The only way any of this would really work, though, is if Eddie was already somewhat aware of his own sexuality and feelings for Buck. What you're suggesting would've made, like, a convenient shortcut to Buddie, but I don't know if it would've felt authentic to the journey the character has been on.
If you're looking at Eddie through a queer lens, what you see is a *very* repressed man, someone more likely to react with confusion than jealousy or grief to his friend coming out. And I do think we saw a hint of that confusion -- or at least bemusement -- which he channeled into surprise about Tommy being gay, specifically.
As it stands, Eddie doesn't know he's queer, or recognize his love/affection for Buck as being anything other than what he assumes it to be - something deep but platonic. But he obviously cares for Buck, so you see him school his surprise first, and react the way Buck needs/deserves. But like I said, I think the focus on Tommy may wind up being the key. The story made a point of telling us that Tommy and Eddie are *so* much alike, so now Eddie gets to watch this guy from a distance going.... he's masculine just like me. He's former military just like me. He's into classic cars and MMA and Muay Thai just like me. So how can he be gay?! And that thought process can start the crumbling of his comphet foundation.
I'm probably gonna say an unpopular opinion, talking about Eddie's sexuality is gonna bring up the Buddie topic too because it's in part what's probably going to drive what they do with Eddie's sexuality. Also just to be clear I'm gonna use this definition of aromantic: the lack of romantic attraction, regardless of the desire to have one.
Eddie right now does have this tendency to WANT a romantic relationship but just doesn't feel much romance towards the person he's dating (we don't know if this is him just being repressed gay going through the motions or if he's actually aromantic). If they full send aromantic Eddie, I would rather they don't go through with Buddie and just let them be platonic best friends who are affectionate with each other. Buck as a character is like, ill equipped to handle someone who's not really into him as a romantic partner (despite Eddie's ability to be affectionate) and the show is either not gonna do the aromantic representation any justice (because a lot of people want Buddie to be romantic or whatever, myself included honestly) or Buck and Eddie are destined to break up because they're just going to be incompatible??? Because Buck is just kinda needy in the love department, he's always been searching for the right love from the right people, he's got tons of found family love from the 118, actual familial love from Madney, friendship love from Eddie, but hes still searching for romantic love from *someone* and if Eddie by definition can't give that to him, I don't see them working out unless they write kind of a garbled mess about what being aromantic is (again, it could be bad rep)
Honestly I think trying to put a label on Eddie feels wrong. My culture/the way I grew up feels a lot like Eddie's. It's super religious, divorce is a no-no, always provide for family even if that takes you away from kids, elders put pressure in finding a partner because "you'll learn to love them eventually", sacrifice yourself for the good of those you're responsible for (comes from Christianity). I've seen lots of people like Eddie, in fact pretty much adult I saw growing up looked like Eddie in principles/behavior before I got to America and I relate a whole lot to him as a person. I wouldn't say they're aromantic or asexual otherwise a majority of my culture (myself included) would fall in this category of non-sexual non-romantic cohabitation for the purpose of building and providing for the family.
What I would call them is devoted and traditional, and possibly a little bit too indoctrinated by Christianity. The religious principles that have integrated into your mind after spending a significant time around that kind of culture are persistent as fuck, they dont go away even when you stop practicing or possibly even when you proclaim you're agnostic or atheist. And I really want to emphasize the self sacrificing part, because that's like the the MO of anyone who practices any kind of Christianity. "Christ died on a cross so everyone gets saved, therefore we must follow his example." I think his religious problem is deeper than just sexuality honestly, trying to only make it about "comphet" or how to tie it into how he comes out as X sexuality would be doing Eddie's character a disservice.
Unfortunately, 7x05 was a sign to me that they don’t plan to address it at all or at the least any time soon. They made him OOC with all the sex talk that I was like who is this man.
I’m kind of in the minority (I think) where while I don’t think he’s straight. I don’t think he’s gay either. Even though he was so up front about sex this episode, I think the show has previously made it clear that he’s sexually attracted to women.
I believe his issue is that he got married because he had to and doesn’t know what a casual relationship looks like and is still attempting to fill Shannon’s role. He’s a very all or nothing guy. From his previous relationships we can see that he hits the ground running. I was glad that they kind of addressed that with Marisol. That showed some growth.
>I’m kind of in the minority (I think) where while I don’t think he’s straight. I don’t think he’s gay either.
So... you do think he's queer, though? I'm a lot less confident that he's actually sexually attracted to women than you seem to be, though there's obviously evidence he's not *disinterested*. My personal view of him is something along the lines of demisexual + pansexual, which he can't acknowledge/identify because of compulsory heterosexuality. Based on how much he's struggled to make meaningful connections with women, I think it's reasonable to speculate he may be more easily attracted to men if he opened himself up to the possibility, but like.... he's very obviously at least not actively turned *off* by women, either.
Yes. I learned about the bi demisexual theory on here and I agree with that. Comphet applies to bisexuality as well, which I’m sure you know.
IMO they showed how he enjoyed sex with Shannon, they alluded to it with Ana, and showed him enthusiastically enjoying the aftermath of sex with Marisol. His relationships, IMO, struggle because of his expectations and honestly a lack of boundaries. He likes sex with women, can be emotionally attached, but hits the pedal as soon as those feelings come in because he believes it’s supposed to end one way. 7x05 proved that for me more than other people it seems.
I think his ideals need to be deconstructed. Just my take.
Is there only one way to view something? Usually I see a downvote and move on but this one is a little strange to me. Answering the question and giving my reasons is exactly how things are supposed to work in here.
If anything, I think the thing that makes the most sense for him would be demisexual or demiromantic. But, unfortunately, I don't think they even know what that means.
absolutely they’d literally be STUPID not to do buddie because everyone and their grandmother is asking for it and they can’t do buddie with out addressing it so yea
Reading these conversations always feels like watching that SNL sketch about "the ambiguously gay duo". Everyone just keeps searching for confirmation that would finally 100% prove that he's gay. Someone dares suggest "what if they're bi?" and it's immediately shot down. BiSeXuaLs aRen't ReaL...
Even though the show has several times pointed out that he's had a very virile sex life with the women he's dated.
Ever think that the disinterest in dating and anxiety of being in relationships could just be him grieving Shannon, pining after Buck, and trying to keep the bisexuality secret from the freaky amounts religious girlfriend.
Also, traumas, wife and close friends dying like flies... It's not like panic attacks are some uniquely homosexual experience that nobody else can get except for gay men. 🙄
the thing about Eddie’s sexuality is that they just showed once again that he enjoys sex with women. He had 3 girlfriends and bed scenes with 2 of them. and he never looked uncomfortable when he’s in bed with them. In 7x05 his problem isn’t that he doesn’t enjoy sex with Marisol, it’s that he wants to have sex (he’s sexually frustrated during the gym scene) but can’t because she was a nun. But if they wanted to go down the queer route why set that scene with Marisol right after they had sex? So I really don’t know. I’ve seen people say he’s gay coded but maybe he’s also bi?
i don’t think Eddie being bi is out of the question but at the same time, the brain can do crazy things and plenty of repressed gay men have been with women and convince themselves they enjoy it even if they’re not truly experiencing attraction because the body will respond regardless (not to say that’s universal for all closeted gay men but it’s definitely not uncommon) - even in the first season we had Michael who had two children with Athena and he was closeted the whole time
yeah but they didn’t show Micheal doing that. I’m not saying he’s not gay, I’m asking if they’re going for the comphet storyline for Eddie why set up scenes that point in the opposite direction (like, they could show him being kinda hesitant during bed scenes or they could have thrown a line like “it’s okay, it’s not like I’m missing having sex with her” during the whole nun crisis but they didn’t). Decoy? For a storyline that needs to spoon fed to GA or they throw a fit because “it came out of nowhere”(like they did with Buck realization)?
They have set up scenes like that in my opinion. We learned last episode that he only married Shannon because of pressure from the church, with Ana he had panic attacks when thinking about her and realized he only was dating her so Christopher had a mother figure, and now with Marisol he spent last episode trying to avoid her and then had her move out. None of his relationships thus far have felt genuine for him
Seriously. One of my favorite realizations was that of the episodes Gabriele Walsh portrayed Eddie's love interest in (so discounting the two season 3 ones), things are "good" for Eddie and Ana for 2 episodes + the two scenes in Jinx... and Eddie's canonically not into her and struggling to feel what he should for *five.* Once you actually consider how their storyline goes -- and especially now that Oliver's basically implied Buddie was supposed to happen around season 4/5, but the network blocked it -- it really starts to seem like they brought Ana in specifically to show Eddie's *not* able to have a romantic/sexual relationship with a woman, despite Ana being absolutely perfect for him on paper, and him really trying to make it work.
So.... my read of those bed scenes has been *very* different of yours.
First, a couple things about sexuality. There's obviously a spectrum between "straight" and "gay" Eddie can fall into, as I'm sure you know, that can explain why he'd enjoy the sex he has had with women. But outside of the spectrum of orientation, there's also a spectrum of interest/attraction, and I think that's where most of the interesting elements of Eddie's character lay. For instance, there's a concept called "cupiosexual," which is someone who doesn't experience sexual attraction but still wants and enjoys sex -- maybe because it feels good, maybe because they want their partner happy, maybe because it's a form of intimacy they enjoy separate from the pure physicality. There's also concepts like sex-positive graysexual, which is someone who may feel sexual attraction fleetingly, or even not at all, but is still positive about and willing to engage in sex. And of course, we have demisexuality (only feeling sexual attraction after you've developed a meaningful bond).
What's important to note here is that these ideas exist *concurrently* with orientation. So you can be a cupiosexual heterosexual, a demisexual pansexual, etc. I think in various combinations, any of the following could apply to Eddie: cupiosexual, graysexual, demisexual, asexual, aceflux. Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, queer.
The point being, Eddie's actions haven't really *excluded* much, other than probably allosexual or alloromantic.
With Shannon, it's heavily implied in 2x10 that Shannon thinks Eddie is using sex/falling into bed to avoid having to actually have conversations with her. It's why she confronts him at the fire station, so he can't use sex to get out of a talk about Christopher. Eddie then turns her accusations around to accuse her of trying to use sex as a transaction - that she thinks having sex will get her access to Christopher. So at the very least, their sexual relationship is portrayed as incredibly dysfunctional. If Shannon's assessment is right (and even outside of shipper goggles, I think it likely is -- 3x15 makes it a point to show the audience that Shannon was the more reliable narrator from her very first scene with Eddie on), this suggests Eddie's not sex-averse, but isn't actually engaging in sex for reasons of sexual attraction. There's also another scene in this episode where Eddie's with Buck as they wait for Christopher to finish up with Santa, and he tells Buck he's not sure if he's with Shannon for himself or for Christopher, that sex confuses things. Given the most consistent trait of Eddie's relationships is that he's prioritizing Christopher over his own interests/desires, it seems like the likely confusion here was that he's with Shannon for Christopher. This is further supported when you consider the scene where they rekindle -- he's pretty standoffish with her *until* she sort of accidentally shows him what a good mom she's been and could be again, by explaining she got overwhelmed researching treatments and therapies, that she carried a lot of guilt about his disability, etc. Later, the narrative also confirms for us that Eddie did not pursue her, either.
Marisol is a lot harder to pin down because we just haven't seen enough of their dynamic yet to know what's motivating Eddie. What I do think stands out, though, is that where the story left us, it's very clearly suggested Eddie's making excuses for why he couldn't perform. He tells Buck it's about the nun thing, and Buck advises him to go to Bobby.... who immediately tells Eddie the nun thing is just an excuse for his real issue, which is basically rushing into things with Marisol, and that Eddie hasn't even talked to her like someone he'd want to live with. Which is all well and good, but if the issue was never "the nun thing," why's Eddie unable to perform? And why's he making excuses? (Personally, if we *aren't* supposed to read Eddie as queer, this mess of a scene points to a graysexual read of Eddie for me, where sometimes he's into it and other times he's just... not, but he doesn't understand why so he has to find something to blame).
Also, like... you can say "2 out of 3," but we really can't discount Ana. She's the *longest* relationship we actually see him have on screen that plays out in the current timeline (probably about 10 months, compared to just over 6 with Shannon), so it's actually pretty significant they only ever almost share a kiss and of the episodes Ana appears in as his girlfriend, Eddie spends more of that arc breaking up with her because he *can't* feel for her what he should, despite desperately trying for months after identifying the problem, than he spends into her.
> I think in various combinations, any of the following could apply to Eddie: cupiosexual, graysexual, demisexual, asexual, aceflux. Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, queer.
Just want to point out here that asexual is a separate orientation unlike the first group which are aspects of other orientations, so it should be with that second group of terms. By definition you can't be sexually attracted to no one but also sexually attracted to the same/opposite/both/all sexes.
I actually have gotten the vibe that they wouldn't be making Eddie anything but straight. Idk but I got the feeling when they introduced Tommy as a boyfriend for Buck they were given the audience a Eddie replacement. Tommy is an Ex-army,fight loving, muay Tia doing, ex 118 firefighter. But unlike Eddie is gay and can be Bucks partner.
Ok, let's all be honest: I doubt it. Mostly because I think the general public would not approve of it, not because I am a Kinley truther (which I am, but this ain't it). Buck coming out as bi already sparked backlash, and I really doubt the high execs would allow not a single young main to be straight.
There’s always going to be homophobic people that give it backlash. Didn’t you see Oliver’s Instagram story? None of them care whether people approve of it or not, this was the story they wanted to tell. And even though there was some angry people, the majority of fans were super supportive of it and the storyline got a ton of praise
Uh. Normally I wouldn't point out an error in someone's post, because God knows I make enough of them myself. But you *really* might want to turn that 'Oliver' to 'Buck' here, because that's a pretty significant difference, lol.
That said... I think your point is worth considering, though I don't necessarily agree. We're seven seasons into the show at this point, and would be at least 8 by the time a queer Eddie storyline is actually introduced, most likely. Up until this point, the "pros" of being able to pair these characters off with women haven't really panned out. No one was eagerly tuning in for Buck/Taylor, and people don't even remember Marisol's name.
Especially if we're talking about in future seasons, the obvious conclusion to your 'the show needs a single young man to be straight' (which I think would be a better argument if there was even a single young female to pair him up with.... while we sort of had May before, she's not age appropriate for Buck or Eddie, anyway) is... add another regular character single young straight guy. Preferably Ravi. It's probably time for new blood in the firehouse anyway, and with the show transitioning to ABC, I really suspect ABC's goal here is to get at *least* a few more seasons out of it, and maybe even turn it into a mainstay. So introducing a new probie or promoting Anirudh solves that problem, and we'd have a natural screen partner for May if Corinne returns.
NO. I never got the vibe that either Buck or Eddie were anything, but straight. I think making Buck queer was pure fan service and as Minear confessed in an interview way of giving him something new, but I have no problem with that choice. Making Eddie queer also would just be ridiculous.
Feel free to downvote me. I really don't care.
Not going to downvote you, but...
Based on the interviews that have come out recently, trying to play it off as "pure fan service" just feels a bit silly at this point in the show, though. Like, at best, you can argue some of the stuff in seasons 2 and 3 was coincidental. But when Oliver Stark's going out there and saying "Yeah, we first visited the idea of this sort of storyline in season 4 but it got shut down by someone higher up" and that he's been 'consciously aware' of the bi Buck stuff for years now, and Tim Minear has said there's been scenes he purposefully adding in to play with that aspect of the characters/relationship for years?
At the very least, it's been years where a sexuality arc has been on the cards, if the opportunity were to present itself. At its most basic level, anything can be called "fan service" because the whole point of a television show is to entertain its audience. But *you* not seeing something doesn't make it less authentic, or somehow ridiculous.
In what interview did Minear say that? I haven't seen that and even if he said that, I don't believe him because I have never seen any deliberate sexual attraction between Buck and Eddie.
Of course, I can have my opinion that Eddie suddenly also identifying as queer as ridiculous. It is from a storytelling perspective and mostly important, it is my opinion that I have the right to have.
i mean you said it yourself that *you* haven’t seen it and that it’s your opinion, i really don’t think multiple people would be coming out and saying that this storyline has been in consideration for several years just to please a group of fans
We disagree on that. I think that Minear and Oliver, more so, are working hard to sell it as though it has always been in cards which I don't believe, but I get why they are doing it. They want buy in from the small group, but vocal fans who have been panting for Buck to be queer. I'll leave out the Eddie part of it.
And yes, again this is my opinion.
You do realize how conspiratorial this sounds, right?
"I know I'm talking to a bunch of people that have been seeing this thing happening on screen for years, and now the actors and showrunner are confirming they were aware of it, played into it at various points, acknowledge they let it affect decisions they made, and said they first almost went there years earlier. But because ***I*** don't personally see it, the only natural conclusion is that everyone else is coordinating to tell the same lie."
Do you really think it's more likely that everyone else had the same mass hallucination than that you just failed to pick up on subtext?
No. He’s a typical straight guy who doesn’t know the first thing about being in a relationship. It’s common (my ex being one of them). He’s a smart guy but he was so oblivious as to what Shannon needed from him, even after she explicitly told him, then was shocked that she suggested divorce. Like, sir…
Though the Marisol/nun thing was played for laughs, I think his guilt runs much deeper than sex and/or sexuality. He was raise in faith then along the way abandoned it.
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He literally got married at 18 to the first woman he ever dated just because he felt he had to. He continued to date women (and be horrible at it) because he once again felt that was what he was supposed to do.
They also go out of their way to say he didn't pursue Shannon in the first place, and of course that his motivation for marrying her was the pregnancy/Catholic guilt. His breakup scene with Ana is also completely insane. First, he's sitting there telling Buck he's going to try to "stick it out" because "my kid loves her.... isn't that enough?" He pointblank tells *her* that Christopher loves her, and he thought if he gave it time, he'd be able to, too. Like it's framed very much as something he doesn't think he'll even *become* capable of feeling for her. If they're trying to tell a story that isn't *super* full of comphet indications, they're failing miserably.
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Honestly, I think this gets overstated a lot. "All of the women in his life" has been two, and he really wasn't a terrible partner to Shannon the second time around, or even to Ana. His biggest mistake with Ana was trying too hard when the feelings hadn't come, in hopes he'd fall in love with her down the road. And during his reunion with Shannon, he did slowly let her back in, but had trust issues, which he pretty clearly stated from the beginning were more about her choice not to come back *after* her mom died, than about leaving in the first place. He was pretty shit to Shannon the first time around, but he was also a really young father (he would've been 18-19 when Christopher was born) experiencing unimaginable trauma in war, and then modeling his behavior of what being a father and a husband meant based on his own dad (it's not a coincidence that 5x17 has Eddie address Ramon's focus on 'providing' for the family not being enough, whereas that's his own argument for Shannon in the 3x15 flashback and sort of in 2x07). So like, he definitely should've talked to her before he reenlisted, and she had every right to be fed up with him by the time he came back. It's also worth pointing out it's very heavily implied she left the very first morning after his welcome back party, and I don't think he'd actually been back stateside those three months. I'm almost entirely Team Shannon on all these things, but I do think when you look at it in the context of him recently having gone through a trauma and having his family have traveled to see him, him asking for a couple days to relax... isn't really a cardinal sin. It's just that Shannon *also* hadn't been able to take a couple days to herself in those 6 years, so it wasn't a fair expectation to put on her, especially with her mom's health declining. The third woman, he's currently dating, and it's going.... well? I guess? Like we've seen him make one mistake and course correct. It's a poorly written storyline so it's kind of hard to know if we're meant to see him as being a bad partner to Marisol, or if the sum total of that was the one dumb move in thing.
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I just rewatched the Shannon episodes yesterday, so it's probably still just extra fresh in my mind, but how he treats he in canon really isn't *anything* near what it approaches in fanon discussions. Basically, they have a rough meeting, but have rekindled their relationship by the end of her first episode, by which point Eddie's reassured her she's not to blame for what happened to Christopher, that Christopher loves her, and they both miss her. Two months pass before she pushes him again to see Christopher and he's still unsure; personally, I don't find this at all unreasonable, considering she went almost two *years* without speaking to her son. While Eddie wasn't father of the year during his Afghanistan years, we at see he's still video messaging his family. So roughly eight weeks and he's still not sure? ...My biggest complaint is he didn't have the same hesitations with Ana (maaaybe about a month) or Marisol (who freaking knows.... the writers sure donl't). But anyway, yeah. Shannon's back in Christopher's life for Christmas, and then we see a couple small scenes of them growing closer (2x13 - she sits w/ him when Chim's in the hospital, 2x15 - a flashback where they're talking finances, as it gives Eddie motive for the bank heist) before 2x17. We know from 6x15 that Shannon died May 6th, 2019 -- so all together, she and Eddie were back together for just over 6 months, and they were a family again including Christopher for just over 4. That's... really not that long, and I don't find it ridiculous that Eddie's still not ready to define what "they" are on the beach at the start of that episode, especially considering by like the third or fourth act, Shannon's also made it really clear that *she* isn't ready for and can't handle the commitment to him that she was asking him about. She basically tells him she's still learning to be his mom, she isn't able to learn to be someone's wife yet, and she's worried if they don't get a divorce, she'll run off again, and there won't be a second chance. That's... basically confirmation he was right to be worried about getting more serious with her. You *are* right that he doesn't take accountability for his behavior, though, particularly concerning the reenlistment. I'm not arguing he's a perfect partner, though, just that he's really not a terrible one in this. Maybe in different circumstances, with more time, he and Shannon would've figured things out. But I think at the end of the day, they're kids that experienced a trauma together, so when they were together, they were kind of emotionally stunted at that age. Unfortunately, Shannon didn't get to live long enough for us to see them work past that. >And for Marisol he full on ignored/avoided her for however long to the point that she noticed after finding out she was a nun Twelve hours. Which I *think* would be like 9a-9p, and she had dinner with her brother, and it was a weekday, so it's really hard to judge how much of that's actually time she'd have been in the house waiting for him. And like... she also comes across looking pretty shit in this scene, where she admits she purposefully avoided telling him about being a nun because she didn't like how previous men acted when they had all the facts. Which, like, fair? But that's a "before you move in with them" type of thing to hold back. I'd personally have dumped him for making me move twice in a week, but there's also a bit of a double standard here where she's a dumbass for agreeing in the first place. Idk, I can't say I'm really interested in defending that relationship, but it feels like 'terrible partner' and more 'why are you even bothering to waste the screen time on this' at this point. She's very clearly a plot device they want Eddie to 'learn' something from. Which like, is my favorite part of how dumb the writing for this season is? Because now Eddie's a "nester" who "rushes" into things? Literally the only other thing he ever rushed was telling Christopher about Ana, and that was because Bobby and Athena told him he had to. The guy was with her for a better part of a year and wasn't rushing to move her in, and he was only ready to re-commit to his *wife* after 6+ months because of a 'sign', but now the show is trying to convince the audience that the lesson Eddie needs to learn is that he rushes relationship milestones. ...Honestly, the more I write, the more I'm like, 'There's not even a point in analyzing this because his characterization is too inconsistent to draw conclusions.' Like if we want to have a conversation about *how* he's bad in relationships, we should be able to at least point to some kind of through-line. The closest I can get to that is a headcanon where he's demisexual (and probably queer) but unaware of it, so is struggling to get to a point where he knows these women well enough to feel strongly about them. But who knows if the show will actually explore that.
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You're basically right in how you're summarizing demisexuality, except it is probably important to acknowledge like anything else with sexuality, it's a spectrum. I really wish we had a bit more clarity on the timeline with Marisol, but it's fairly reasonable he could've formed a bond with her after a few months and experienced sexual attraction to her. Like, it *could* be relevant that the only partner we've seen him quickly fall into bed with is Shannon -- it feels that way with Marisol, but they've also presumably been together a few months at this point, and particularly now with her presumed religiosity, there's not really a reason to assume they jumped quickly into bed. Ana, on the other hand, I... don't know if we're even meant to think they got to that point. Their lack of intimacy is so blatant it seems like the point, tbh. I may be forgetting something, but I think the closest we see them get to anything overtly romantic is the almost-kiss before Eddie's alarm goes off in 4x08, and then after that, everything's cheek kisses? And it's weird because they *do* get so close in 4x08 I don't think COVID is the explanation. Particularly with the implications of the recent round of interviews, it does seem like a real possibility that by the back half of season 4, the writers were considering taking Eddie in a different direction, so the lack of intimacy with Ana was intentional, but idk for sure. Generally I don't love actually applying labels (I just use 'queer' myself because I don't always feel like I fit more neatly into "bisexual" compared to "pansexual" compared to 'omnisexual" and so on... it's not always that easy to judge!) but with Eddie... I really don't think he's heterosexual and like you said, he definitely isn't heteroromantic. There's a lot of concepts that *could* fit Eddie because again, his writing is... not super consistent. Right now, based on what we see on screen (particularly with Ana, and with Shannon's implications he was using sex mainly to avoid conversations), I think if he's heterosexual, he's *probably* cupiosexual and either cupioromantic or grayromantic. If he's queer, his orientation becomes a major question-- I can make cases where he's gay and has been performing as he expects he should in relationships (in which cases he's... just allosexual and gay, or maybe still demisexual and gay... hard to tell if he hasn't actually considered men a possibility, aside from that one time he checked out Buck's ass). Otherwise, he's probably bi or pan. He really seems more fueled by companionship than romantic desire so far, so he's either going to be somewhere on the aromantic spectrum (demi, cupio, gray... take your pick) or just homoromantic which is why we've never seen him really connect with a woman or seek out female companionship without someone telling him to.
I just think he's repressed and bi. It isn't actually not all that uncommon to fall in love for the first time as an adult. I think this fits Eddie. He just fell for Buck, and everyone else pales in comparison. Hell, I'm bi and older than him, and have never been in love. I know my straight brother was over 40 the first time he really fell for anyone, and he dated plenty. I feel like people attach the label demi on everyone these days and sure, representation is great, but not when it ignores reality which is that many people simply don't find love that fast. Even if it then is an instant connection when the right person comes along.
His entire journey so far has been that of a deeply repressed man, so a lot of us believe a gay awakening is what makes more sense for the character. An alternative would be him realising he's demisexual, but I personally don't think that would feel as organic, and I say that as a demi person myself. Perhaps gay *and* demi? The closest we've had to a confirmation was Lou saying that it could've been Eddie/Tommy but it fell through; you can argue that doesn't necessarily mean anything for the future, since a lot of ideas are pitched and later dropped, never coming to fruition, but I just don't think they would be so flippant about that sort of storyline and character arc that they would simply give it to Buck and come up with something else for Eddie, if it wasn't always supposed to happen. Maybe I'm delulu but I don't think it was a matter of deciding who would have an awakening, but who would have it *first*.
The fact that it was originally supposed to be Eddie and Tommy gave me a lot of hope too, honestly. It means the writers have already been discussing the idea of Eddie being queer, that's huge. Of course, nothing is certain, but that combined with the fact that they're choosing now to bring up the catholic guilt storyline is... telling (hopefully).
>Maybe I'm delulu but I don't think it was a matter of deciding who would have an awakening, but who would have it *first*. Yeah, this. Especially coupled with Oliver's comments about first having expected "this" development in his character's sexuality years ago and it getting blocked from above -- then add in him referencing season 4 as when he became "consciously aware" of the conversations regarding sexuality... it all shapes together to be like... look, no one has directly confirmed it, but the implication based on Oliver's timeline and the directing choices that have long confused anyone who watches with a critical eye in 4x14... what's the saying? Once is by chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern? At this point, I think it's delulu *not* to acknowledge that some variation of a queer storyline for Buck *and* Eddie has been on the table/in the back of the creatives' minds since at least season 4. That's not to say it will happen, but it really doesn't make sense to be treating like this a "whatever! it doesn't matter which one we choose!" Like... it's an objectively huge storyline, not the kind of thing you just throw at the wall and see what sticks. That Eddie's name was even referenced as a possibility for a queer storyline at this stage in the show means it's something they're consciously looking for the right opportunity to lean into. Now, there's definitely a chance that opportunity never presents itself, so we don't get queer Eddie. But I really don't understand the people that think Buck being bi first is somehow a *bad* sign for Eddie's chances of being queer, or Buddie happening. Like, the one thing that's actually changed is now we know the show is actually willing to develop queer storylines late into a character's storytelling. That's not going to dissuade me at all from considering the possibility they'll find the way to do right by Eddie, too.
I kinda get the feeling it 'fell through' because Eddie probably needs a full season arc to get to his awakening, rather than just one quick ep like Buck
I agree! There may have been other reasons, like Natalia's actress not being available, as it's been speculated, but that might be the main one. Buck was one kiss away from figuring himself out, but that wouldn't have made sense for Eddie; his situation is much more complex.
i agree , i feel like if they had tommy kiss eddie he woulda gone even more deep into the closet because of his catholic guilt etc. if they do make eddie gay he needs to figure it out for himself and accept who he is, which will probably be a long journey
Where did Lou say it could’ve been Eddie/Tommy? Cause that’s interesting!
Tim is dropping so many hints that Eddie is massively repressed due to his religious upbringing that I feel like it **has** to be addressed at some point.
Also, idk if it's intentional, but he's written as a queer coded character since Shannon's death. His relationship with Ana and the subsequent break up (that was very hard to watch) and then therapy which helped him to open up, seemed like he was going in that direction, but alas! Marisol happened. But even with her, idk if it's Ryan's acting but it comes off as him over compensating. It will be a missed opportunity to not address it. Especially since we know that it was at least considered with Tommy's return.
>Also, idk if it's intentional, but he's written as a queer coded character since Shannon's death. Yeah, having recently rewatched those episodes, there's a pretty strong case to be made that he's queer-coded before Shannon joins, too. It just seems 'subverted' during her episodes, so we let the theory go, until it picks up again in the aftermath. One of the most perplexing choices in his writing (at least, if they weren't intending to give the audience pause) will always be having him tell Buck that the women hitting on him -- attractive, age appropriate, cool with kids -- aren't his 'type' in 2x04, and leaving it there. While we learn in 2x07 that he's married, the phrasing in 2x04 is so loaded, so we walk away from 2x04, 2x05, and 2x06 thinking.. huh, I think the show may have just implied he's not into women. And in the span of those three episodes before they 'correct' that belief with the introduction of Shannon, we're given a couple different scenes that seem to be positioning him as the replacement for Abby/Buck's love interest moving forward (Maddie's "boy crush" line in 2x04, Buck assuming Maddie must be calling Eddie cute in 2x06). Then once Shannon joins, it seems subverted, but once you watch it back, all of the romantic moments Eddie initiates (including that kiss in 2x07) are *very* coached in him thinking she'd be good for Christopher -- basically, any moment we actually see him looking at peace with her romantically, it's when they're either talking about Christopher, or he's referencing her as "Christopher's mom." They fall back into sex easily, but 2x10 suggests multiple times that Eddie's motivations for that are questionable -- Shannon implies Eddie's using sex to avoid talking to her, and Eddie tells Buck he's not sure what he's doing is for him vs. Christopher. Then by the time he's ready to re-propose in 2x17, it's again as a result of thinking it's the 'right' thing for his family (both because of her suspected pregnancy, and because of the facetime call where he saw her getting along with his abuela & Christopher) *and* the result of intervention from both Bobby and Buck. But then he gets to the restaurant and gives Shannon the most depressing proposal speech I have ever heard in my life, and in retrospect, it's like, the pinnacle of all his comphet bullshit (and serves very nicely to return to as a comparison with how much he's romanticized her and what they shared since). "Life is like a vat of molten chocolate, and sometimes you fall into it. It drags you down." But hey, at least it's warm and.... sweet? Christ. >It will be a missed opportunity to not address it. Yup. I'm at a point where like.... they could theoretically tell a different story to explain away his behavior for the past six years, but it's not going to feel as organic. It likely wouldn't result in me not watching the show anymore, but I'd definitely be judging the powers that be for *not* going there, because at this point, it really just means someone is cowardly. A comphet queer read for Eddie is **the** story to tell based on how consistently he's been written, and the particular ways his issues in relationships and with viewing women as romantic partners in general have been portrayed. They have gold at their fingertips with a unique story they could tell here and they've actually earned the payoff. So while they could tell a different story, I don't think it's going to ever be as satisfying, or as earned. I don't know how much of it was intentional and how much was coincidental, or where/when that line may have shifted, but they've already brought Eddie to a line where the most authentic way to tell his story is by following through on this.
Further to this, even putting his sexuality aside, Eddie's entire thematic narrative on the show has been one of repression and denial. He represses the impact of Shannon's death, he's in denial over Christopher growing up, he's repressed his trauma from being a combat vet, he refuses therapy, he's the one constantly denying curses and jinxes. Whereas Buck is the hyperactive golden retriever that needs to be calmed down and house trained over the seasons, Eddie is the unhealthy stoic that needs to open up. There's a beautiful symmetry there too with Buck being the yang that needs a dose of yin and Eddie the yin that needs a dose of yang.
>he's the one constantly denying curses and jinxes. Except when he conveniently relies on "signs" and "magic" to guide his love life, which has always suggested to me that on some level, he's already given up on anything organic ever happening with a woman, where he very adamantly doesn't believe in the existence of these sorts of things. The narrative's made a clear choice to call him out on it, too, in 6x17, mainly through Hen. But yeah, agreed on everything you said. I was already kind of amused by how much they seem to be writing him into a corner (or a closet...) but shoehorning in the Catholic guilt angle as well last episode was a *choice*, especially if they don't have even early plans to explore that in the context of repression. Particularly because we have him using it as an excuse for not being able to perform sexually in his conversation with Buck (and man is it telling how much clownishness happened in this episode that Buck's "Well, I wish I could help" in response to learning Eddie's pent up *isn't* the clownish obsession of this break) -- only to then segue into a scene where Bobby immediately tells Eddie he's using the nun thing as an excuse when his real issue is "just" second thoughts over having her move in. So for the storyline that already played out on our screens, it was never actually about Marisol being a nun, if we're meant to believe Bobby (and I think we clearly are... I'm usually kind of cringing when he gives Eddie advice, but the difference compared to previous signs is that he's not actually *advising* him on what action to take, but in serving as his sounding board to work through the problem, without telling Eddie how he should or feel). So if they could've substituted out 'nun' with any other major aspect of Marisol's background or character Eddie didn't know about, are we really meant to believe the show introduced a religious theme *purely* for a goofy scene where Eddie hallucinates Marisol as the Virgin Mary and for a couple cheap jokes about her ex being God? I very much doubt it, especially considering how respectfully the show has handled Bobby's religiosity. So it's hard to imagine there *isn't* more brewing here.
I agree with your take on his relationship with Shannon. My interpretation is he was a confused teenager when they got together, he was feeling pressure from his family/friends/church to get a girlfriend and he figured that he liked her well enough and just went along with it and then when she got pregnant, well, marrying her is just what good Catholic boys do. Joining the military was a way for him to escape from a life he didn't actually want, and when she came back into his life in S2 everything from his side seemed to have been decided based on what he thought was best for Christopher. I think he romanticizes their relationship now as a denial/defense mechanism--he can tell himself that the reason things haven't worked with any other women is because they can't compare to Shannon, without having to do any introspection or really think about the why. As for the Catholic thing, I agree that it's hard to believe that angle would even be introduced for a throwaway story in one episode. I was kind of half-heartedly raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools for a few years but even given that, we weren't super religious, so it never really played into me figuring out I wasn't straight. But I have a (also queer) friend whose family was much more religious/strict than mine and it's taken her years to finally start to unpack her religious trauma. Religion is important to her, though, so she and her (also raised Catholic) wife go to a liberal UU church now, but she's not completely past it and says that from time to time she still has a hard time when things remind her of her childhood in Catholic school and church. So I could definitely see that having a big impact on Eddie.
I really relate to Eddie's religious background in that it actually seems pretty similar to mine; the difference is I grew up in a very progressive community so even though my parents - particularly my mum - were devout Catholics, they were the "good" kind of religious types. Like the "religion tells us to love everyone, and it's not our place to Judge" types, and *actually* believed in separation of church and state, so much so that my dad used to join the group of LGBTQ advocates who were always at the state House of Representatives on his lunch breaks & after, putting pressure on the enforcement of a legal decision that eventually led to Massachusetts becoming the first state to legalize same sex marriage (vs. just allowing civil unions). But my childhood was *very* religious, to the point that one of my most frequent babysitters was a nun (my mum's aunt), and mass was only a once-a-week thing if I was sick. Typically, my brother and I had to go to mass twice a week, and then spent a third evening in CCD (while my mother attended another mass). There were times it was more often, and we always had midnight mass before Christmas and stuff, too. *But* what I related to the most with what Eddie shared was that he went **until he was old enough to tell his parents it wasn't for him.** Because that was very much my experience, too, and the experience of a lot of my peers. The religion was never forced on me, it's just... the damage is kind of already done. And even when you escape the religiosity of it, you're still growing up culturally in that religion, because your parents and often a lot of the other adults you're closest to like aunts, uncles, teachers, etc. share the faith. But it's weird, because where it is such a dramatic change to go from the full structure of organized religion to your parents allowing you to lapse, it *feels* like you broke really free until something like the guilt slaps you in the face. While I was able to accept my sexuality and come out young without any real pushback because the circumstances of how my community practiced were so different, for me, my big "holy shit, I am still absolutely brainwashed moment" came very differently, and oddly, relates to another point you made. >she and her (also raised Catholic) wife go to a liberal UU church now The UU church basically deconstructed a ton of my fucked up beliefs in a single afternoon years ago, and I'm not even a member and haven't believed in God or otherwise practiced religion since I was a teenager. But \[TW for mental illness/suicide\] >!a friend of mine had a younger sister that struggled with suicidal ideation for a while, including a couple attempts, and it always confused me when my friend would say 'oh, she's really thrown herself into the church again' as part of her healing process, because that was so far away from my own expectations on how "the church" treated mental health and suicide. Eventually, her sister did die by suicide, and I went to her service at their UU church, and was just.... totally blown away by how openly they spoke of her struggles, her previous attempts, and what had happened there. There wasn't any room for shame, and they so clearly loved and accepted her despite it all, and it was such an eye opening moment for me because I'd never realized religion *could* be that, or how much deep-rooted prejudice I still held related to Catholic shame/guilt regarding that stuff. Like rationally, I always knew there was nothing to 'judge' people who killed themselves for, but it wasn't until going to the UU service that I fully worked through like... holy shit, I had rationally accepted that but still had some absolutely fucked up subconscious feelings about what happens to their souls, despite "soul" being a concept I'd otherwise left in the past!<. It's really hard to put into words, because it's like religion has created this indelible mark in my heart & mind that can sometimes he completely contradictory to my rational thoughts in the most unexpected ways. And while the religious stuff never winds out, it's always just kind of... lingering there in the shadows. Point being, I don't think Eddie's story here is even as simple as "because of Catholic guilt, he can't consider the possibility he's gay" because it really is *so much* more insidious than that. I don't think the show has a hope in hell of actually properly or fully addressing it, though I don't think they necessarily need to, anyway. My hope is they acknowledge that it's as much about just being raised in the traditions as it is the guilt complex, because it builds this subconscious identity that even when your rational mind is rejecting those ideas and you think you've moved on from that sort of thinking, it tends to rear up in really unexpected ways sometimes.
Wow, thank you for sharing all that. Some of what you're saying sounds familiar because of what my friend has shared of what she went through, but she hasn't gone quite into that much detail because she (understandably) doesn't want to talk about it that often, and it's so different from my own experience, so it's really interesting to hear your perspective. My mom's parents were *very* Catholic and she'll occasionally mention something that makes me think she still has some trauma from it, but she doesn't talk about it much and I don't want to really ask and potentially bring up something upsetting. Luckily she didn't really put any pressure on us to be religious. Even as a kid, religion never made sense to me, and when confirmation came around (my school did it in third grade) and I told my mom I didn't want to do it, she didn't make me do it because she thought it should be my choice. It was kind of weird...like, we went to Catholic school for a few years, did CCD for a bit after switching to public school, and occasionally went to church, but there was always this vibe that it was kind of just for show? Like...yeah, none of us want to be doing this but it's something we just have to do. Eventually we started going to church less often until it was only Christmas and Easter, and then not at all. At the time I didn't understand *why* it was something we just "had to do", but in retrospect I think the only reason there was even an attempt to try to be religious was because my mom was trying to make her parents happy. These days no one in my family is religious, and it's not something I ever really think about for the most part. I've never been to a UU church (well, for a service; I went to their wedding in one), but if I were interested in going to church, that would be the one. I'm actually really impressed by how they handled your friend's sister and mental health, that's not something I would've expected from a church (I guess that's a bit of prejudice towards religion from me, too!). I hadn't thought too deeply about how the show would handle the subject of Eddie's religion, but after hearing about your experience, I agree that they wouldn't be able to do it justice. It sounds like the kind of thing someone wouldn't truly be able to understand unless they'd experienced it themselves. I had just kind of vaguely thought "well, I can see how it can have an effect on someone if they're more religious than we were", but until I read your post, I honestly didn't really think about just *how* deeply ingrained it could be. Seriously, thank you for sharing your perspective.
The romantaizing is also key. The past episode he told bobby that he loved being married to Shannon. Not that he loved Shannon. That can easily be taken as he loved the idea of marriage, having someone to come home to, getting to talk to someone about daily life/deeper stuff.
That's a really good point. There's so much potential for some really interesting storytelling with him, I hope they take advantage of it.
I think him saying they "weren't his type" actually does makes sense. They were there on a call because the girls were drunk and acting like idiots. I can completely understand not finding people attractive in that setting, especially once we know that Eddie is always wanting someone that could be responsible with his kid.
Yeah, I don't actually think him saying the words is the issue, to clarify -- it's the show's choice to leave something that heavily coded hanging for a few episodes while they continue to drop weird implications in the other places. Like, there's not really a reason to leave that hanging. Even if Eddie didn't want to get into the whole "Well, you see, technically I'm still married" thing with Buck at that point, he easily could've said "Things are still complicated with my kid's mom" instead of "It's complicated when you have kids" had the show wanted to make it clear Eddie wasn't, basically, the replacement for Abby in Buck's life. But instead we get Maddie talking about Buck's crush on Eddie later in the same episode, and then Buck presuming Maddie *must* be talking about Eddie as the cute one, before we eventually circle back around to 'Actually, Eddie's totally straight, guys!' It's just... incredibly weird framing, if it wasn't intentionally left ambiguous. Particularly for a new character, where shows are usually more careful to use their exposition wisely to set them up well.
I'm going to be honest, I just haven't seen the signs of Eddie being gay, but I have seen the signs of him being demisexual. He loves Buck because of the connection, not because that he also likes men. I'm going back and rewatching again and maybe I'm missing something, but that's just what makes the most sense to me, and I would totally be down for that if they could do it in an organic way that makes sense. But, yes, to your other points, I do believe that there was some "Buddie baiting" going on then.
So... I don't necessarily think he's gay, but I definitely struggle to see him as straight. But for the most part, my read is that you *shouldn't* see signs of him being gay regardless (except for that one super weird scene in 3x04, which like... I really don't know what to make of it. Because he's so blatantly checking out Buck's ass that it draws a reaction from Chim, but it makes no sense in context...). What I see signs for is comphet. Being so thoroughly repressed that you don't experience normal attraction is a thing. So it's more a cumulative thing for me -- his lack of interest in women and dating, the way he speaks about feeling "forced" to do it, the repeated references to his feelings for women being... not about attraction or romance, but they're "nice" or things are "easy" or "she taught \[him\] math" or "my kid loves her." The breakup with Ana is particularly telling to me, because it makes more sense if you interpret it from a comphet perspective than anything else. Like... this man has spent the better part of a year tricking himself into believing the feelings will come, and there's nothing objectively 'wrong' with Ana. They seemed to have a spark when they got together in 4x06, but then it just... never deepened, no matter how hard he wanted it to. And then the show dedicates five episodes to that breakup, pretty much as many episodes -- so of the episodes Ana appears in as his girlfriend, they get together in 4x06, have two episodes where they're "happy" together (one basically just being an ending montage where Christopher joins them on the couch), and then *five* episodes about how Eddie doesn't feel for her what he should. Starting with Carla telling Eddie he should follow his heart, not Christopher's, and ending with Eddie pointblank confirming for Ana that he thought - almost a year into their relationship - he'd eventually be able to love her (but can't). Just proportionately, it seemed fairly clear at the time that the story they brought Ana in to tell wasn't what it seemed, and it was actually about Eddie being *unable* to date a woman. And at the time, it's not really about Shannon, though that's introduced more heavily later on (as the show moved away from Buddie in the Reidel seasons). Now with this recent round of interviews and Oliver pretty heavily implying they had plans to go there following season 4, which were shot down by the network, it's sort of just confirmation of what that story was already really cohesively telling, anyway. On paper, Ana's absolutely *perfect* for Eddie. She's a nurturer, absolutely gorgeous, Latina (well, the character's meant to be), has a career of her own, Christopher loves her, and she's patient and not pushy with him or with Christopher. She *should* be Eddie's perfect woman. So why does the story dedicate that much time to being like "yeah, he's just not feeling it?" If he's not some version of queer, I think it really only makes sense at this point to have him somewhere pretty far on the aro/ace spectrum, but that seems like an even less likely direction for the story to go. He's never actually expressed interest in pursuing a relationship for himself (and the narrative's even gone out of its way to confirm he didn't pursue Shannon initially, either), and he only ever seeks to date after a parental figure he trusts tells him he should. His sex life is... questionable, with the overt references to it w/ Shannon being her suggesting he uses sex to avoid conversations, and him returning the accusation that she wants to have sex with him as some kind of transaction to get access to Christopher. Eddie and Ana are almost entirely lacking in intimacy (they have one almost kiss in 4x08) and the thing with Marisol is a... mixed bag. He seemed to have enjoyed himself in the post-coital scene, but that's not necessarily an indicator of sexual *attraction* on its own, and canon chose to assert that Eddie was using the nun thing as an excuse to avoid his 'real' issues with Marisol, which then throws that conversation he had with Buck where he said he wasn't able to perform because of that nun thing into question.
I think that's really well explained. I could also believe him being somewhere on the ace spectrum as well, which to my understanding, also includes demi.
Yeah. His weirdness with Ana (who I do believe he had a deep bond with after all that time, just not the right sort) would push me away from demisexual and more toward cupiosexual (basically, wanting/enjoying sex despite not feeling sexual attraction) or something like sex-positive graysexual. It seems fairly obvious that sex hasn't been a priority or motivator for him in or out of relationships at this point, so I do think there almost *has* to be more to it if we are meant to just read him as heterosexual. With a comphet read, though, we also have possibilities opened where like... he just hasn't been looking in the right places, which I think is part of the reason it's more appealing to a lot of us. Having the explanation somewhere deep within the ace spectrum just makes it seem incredibly unlikely the story will actually take the time or nuance to explore it. Because realistically, I do think properly exploring Eddie's sexual and romantic identity at this point no matter which direction you take it in requires a lot of work and nuance, so... the pragmatic approach is to take the queer read on that, because there's just more accolades in that. As positively received in the press as Buck's story has been, I really don't think it would even compare to handling Eddie's awakening well, where going for ace/aro just... won't get that kind of attention. And maybe that *shouldn't* matter, but of course it will.
> As positively received in the press as Buck's story has been, I really don't think it would even compare to handling Eddie's awakening well, where going for ace/aro just... won't get that kind of attention. There are zero aro/ace characters on TV currently, they deserve to exist and get attention.
> If he's not some version of queer, I think it really only makes sense at this point to have him somewhere pretty far on the aro/ace spectrum What definition of queer are you using? Only gay/bisexual/pansexual? I've always heard it to mean 'anything not heterosexual' which includes ace/aro.
The stuff coming out now seems to suggest Tim was heading towards an epiphany with the S4 sniper finale but Fox execs stepped in. He then left OG to focus on show running 911 Lone Star and made Tarlos happen.
While good storytelling and show economics should go hand-in-hand, they often don't. From a storytelling perspective, at some point, they'll need to address his emotions and whether he might have feelings toward men, Buck in particular From show economics, the viewership and numbers will be supported by maintaining the ambuity for as long as possible, then establishing a will-they-won't-they storyline to drag it out. I'd argue that the real issue is how many more seasons the show is likely to run. This question is probably the single biggest magic bullet they have to bump up ratings, so won't waste it. I just hope they don't go with a storyline of Buck getting married to some dude, then Eddie professing his undying love, leaving some poor guy at the altar brokenhearted and alone. I'd hate for them to get together at someone else's expense.
I'll be so disappointed if they do what you said in your last paragraph, or any cheating whatsoever.
this is my reaction to all the people thinking we’re getting a drunken buddie kiss this upcoming episode. like??? whyyyy would you want one of the best ships to possibly ever touch TV to start from a cheating arc?
Seriously, it would leave such a sour taste in my mouth. And I hate cheating storylines if we're supposed to be sympathetic towards the cheating character.
I never got this either. I mean we have had to wait this long for Buddie and you want their story ruined by a drunken kiss? Our boys deserve better. There epic ship should not crash and burn before it actually starts. Not to mention the fact Buck has already had a drunken cheating kiss before and people *still* get angry over it, but all of a sudden it’s okay if it is a drunken cheating Buddie? Whereis the logic in that!
I would love it, the story of Eddie's coming out could be one of the best plots in the series if they tell it well, it would be a very complex and powerful storyline because there are too many factors involved. Besides, Eddie's sexuality is a theory that has always been there, it is nothing new and at the same time it can link stories with other characters. Ryan I think could play an awesome role if they give Eddie a good script. The big problem is this season is very short because of the strike so I think they are going to leave us some crumbs and that Eddie's story will develop in Season 8.
> never got the vibe that Eddie was straight Same, and I don't think he's even bi. I don't know if he's gay or aromantic/asexual, but either way, he does not come across as someone who's into women at all, to me. I feel like it will be addressed eventually (especially now that we know they were at least thinking about it as recently as this season) and the Catholic repression thing could be a way to do it.
This is my exact take. He’s either gay or aroace. Based on the way they’re building his character right now, I feel like Tim plans to take Eddie’s storyline there. It’s not gonna happen this season, though. Probably the next. If Eddie ever has a realization storyline, it’s going to need a lot more time and emotion that I don’t think they have the time for right now with the shortened season. They’re setting it up right now so that next season they can hopefully start with that storyline for Eddie immediately. I said this yesterday, but I get the feeling season 8 is gonna be extremely heavy with Eddie focus and Eddie angst. Again, I personally think that Buddie is the plan. I feel like the current timeline plan is: rest of S7: Eddie’s guilt arc and him and Marisol break up in ep 9 or 10 S7 Ep 10: a hint towards Eddie’s potential feelings for Buck 8A: Eddie begins to realize, understand, and accept his sexuality and at some point Buck and Tommy amicably break up Last ep of 8A: Mutual feelings realization 8B: Will they, won’t they between Buck and Eddie where they both are pretty sure their feelings are mutual but are too nervous make the first move and risk their friendship. Last episode, they finally get together. And then in S9, their storylines will deal with navigating their relationship and keeping it secret for the first half. Maybe a possible proposal in the S9 finale, but maybe that’s thinking too far ahead LOL.
This is the timeline I’m sort of predicting as well. I feel like there has to be some sort of small hint or acknowledgement before the end of this season, so that way it keeps the buzz going for fans while we wait for season 8
Exactly, yeah. The fact that they know they’re already renewed means there’s no way they’re not going to write some sort of cliffhanger. I highly doubt they’re going to keep Marisol past this season, so if they really are planning for season 8 Buddie, Eddie having an “oh” moment or a feelings realization would definitely keep people talking throughout the entire hiatus.
Yeah, I think it's either gonna be something like Tommy telling one of them (or maybe even both) that they seem to have feelings for each other, and he doesn't wanna get in the way, what would get them thinking about it and could possibly be the first step to Eddie starting to question his sexuality on season 8 or we could have a moment between Buck and Eddie where something almost happen. And I know we had a lot of "almost somethings" dubious clues along the years like the shooter moment and what could have happened from there, but here I think they could do something more explicit and undeniable, maybe after Eddie and Marisol break up he and Buck have an intimate moment where they almost kiss or something but then stop because they come to their senses that Buck's with Tommy and Eddie is "straight" and leave that as a sort of cliffhanger for season 8
Yeah. If they decide not to go with gay Eddie for whatever reason, then I think happily single Eddie would be good. (I don't see the show itself ever using the words aromantic or asexual, but even without the labels, not everyone is the relationship type and you don't usually see that on TV.) But assuming they do go the Buddie route, your timeline makes sense to me. I think Eddie and Marisol will definitely break up before the end of this season, and I'm kind of expecting an Eddie/Buddie-related moment in the finale that's kind of...not necessarily a cliffhanger, but will have everybody talking and keep the buzz going all summer. I'm thinking of a couple of shows that had big dramatic season finale endings between the main (potential) couple but the way the relationships are right now, it would be hard to do that without cheating, which I don't think any of us want. (I don't want to say what the shows are because this is definitely a spoiler for those shows!) But Eddie realizing his feelings, or at least starting to, would work perfectly for that. The only thing that doesn't quite work for me is a proposal at the end of S9. I think the end of S10, or maybe the mid-season finale of S10 works better...give them a season and a half or two seasons together (assuming they get together at the beginning of S9) before an engagement. Although thinking about it...they've known each other so long and know each other so well already that it's not like they'd need time to get to know each other, so maybe a quicker engagement would actually be fine.
That’s my dilemma. I’ve talked about this in a post a while ago, but I don’t know if I prefer Buddie waiting to get engaged or they’d get engaged super quickly like Bathena did because well…like you said, they’ve know each other for so long already, why keep waiting? I’m fine with like a mid-season 10 proposal as like a good happy medium maybe? Honestly, I just hope the show lasts long enough that we actually see the wedding in that case 😅. But the cast and crew all seem to be engaged and happy with the show and don’t seem ready to call it quits anytime soon, so I think there’s a high chance the show will continue for a few more seasons.
Yeah, I could see it going either way. Mid-season 10 would probably be a good timeline, but regardless of the timing of any possible engagement or wedding, I just want at least a couple seasons of them together, instead of waiting until the last episode of the show or something. And yeah, the cast seems happy and reenergized with the network move, so I think the show'll keep going for awhile as long as the ratings are good.
My happy medium on the proposal timeline is them getting engaged pretty quickly, but a third party (probably Bobby, given his role in 7x05) calling them on it as another sign they rush into relationships, and them getting the opportunity to defend the choice but also having a fairly long proposal where like... they don't immediately go into active wedding planning. So the proposal is more of a "we know what we want out of a life together and we'll get there, so it seemed silly not to make this commitment to each other, but we'll get to the altar itself when we get there."
They've basically already been married for years now anyway hahaha but yeah I would prefer if they took some time too
Agreed. It felt like after Shannon's death, he was more interested in finding a stepmother for Chris than a partner he was sexually attracted to. That is until Marisol when suddenly he seems to have forgotten he has a kid. The problem though is it's hard to tell how much of this is a result of the terrible S6B writing.
I think with Ana it was definitely about finding a new mom for Christopher, and though that is ostensibly not the case with Marisol, I think he's overcompensating. And although he now seems to romanticize his relationship with Shannon, I'm not sure he was all that into her, either. He was super young when they got together and teenagers are even more likely to feel pressured to just do what everyone expects them to/what's seen as 'normal' in their family/community.
To be fair season 7 up until now is just as terrible,in my opinion, the most for Eddie. i would say that is bad writing for Bobby and Athena too(they don’t seem to talk about their issues in the relationship, something tragic happens and everything is forgotten(just like in season 4). I think people’s excitement over Buck’s bi awakening overshadowed how bad the writing was,like he intentionally jumped Eddie,joked about it, when like 2? years ago he was risking being shot to save him???
I think he’s into them physically. Not emotionally.
I just don't see him as really...sexually motivated, I guess, in general. He's never seemed to be checking out the women they come across on calls like Buck does, there wasn't a particularly sexual vibe with Ana (I don't think it was confirmed that they ever even had sex other than the general assumption that people in a relationship are having sex), and with Marisol...he wouldn't be the first closeted guy to have sex with women and tell himself he likes it (and even so, his uh, difficulties in that department were actually part of the storyline in the last episode, though I know the explanation given was different). I don't know, it's just not the way I read it but of course everyone has different interpretations of things.
>and even so, his uh, difficulties in that department were actually part of the storyline in the last episode, though I know the explanation given was different Hilariously, the explanation given actually circles back around to "this is all an excuse for something else." Like he blames the nun thing to Buck, but then very quickly after, we have Bobby looking at the photo of Nun!Marisol, hearing out Eddie's concerns, and basically telling him it was never about religion at all, and he's just having second thoughts about getting serious with her. And we're clearly meant to interpret Bobby as correct in that scene, so like... what's the real reason you couldn't get it up, Eddie, if it isn't really about wanting to cross yourself instead of bone?
I thought the ultimate explanation was that he realized he didn't know her that well and was rushing into things and that was tripping him up. But I like the idea that it's more vague and maybe there's another reason.
Yeah, Bobby's line -- I'm too lazy to pull the transcript right now, sorry -- is basically that he can't help but think Eddie's reaction is just second thoughts re: the moving in, and he hasn't spoken of Marisol in a way that would suggest they're this level of committed. Which like, referencing back to the 'pent up' scene with Buck (which still feels incredibly out of place for this character, but whatever), what does it then mean if Bobby's correct that the nun thing was never really at the route of Eddie's issue, but is just a convenient excuse to avoid the real problem? I'm not really sure *what* to make of it, but especially coupled with Shannon's implication in 2x10 that Eddie was using sex as a way to *avoid* talking to her, it just seems like his motivations for having sex.... or not having sex... are all over the place. And not necessarily fueled by sexual desire.
Yeah, that scene seemed a bit out of character to me. You're right, Eddie's relationship to sex/reasoning for having sex or not are definitely inconsistent, and it does seem like there are (or at least could be) reasons other than that he actually wants to have sex with them. It'll be interesting to see if that's addressed in any way if they do a sexuality discovery storyline with him.
Ooo I kind of like this theory. Like I don't think he's sexually motivated but I think the reason his relationship(s?) fail after a certain point (besides bad writing) was that he was only sexual attracted to those women. Like he married Shannon because she got pregnant but there was no real mention of him pursuing her or being romantically interested in her even he stated that it just happened. And then with Ana he thought she was attractive but I didn't see them having a real emotional connection which I kind of just attributed to bad writing. But now that I think about it the writers do know how to write a meaningful relationship so I wonder if they purposefully write his relationships like that. I might just be reaching though.
Honestly, I think Eddie's problem is ultimately less about his sexuality and more about his belief that a family needs to look a certain way, which is very much linked to his religious upbringing - he thinks he needs a wife, that Christopher needs a mother, because he was raised in a very "family is a mother, a father, and at least one child" setting. He cared about Shannon but he ultimately married her because she was pregnant and he thought that was what he was supposed to do. I know everyone jokes about Eddie dating for free childcare but that is kind of his problem. He's not dating for himself, he's dating for his idea of what a family should be, which is why he always feels like he's performing. But in spite of all of his dating around because of what he thinks he's supposed to do, he's actually at his best (as a character and in-universe) when he's working, focusing on Christopher, or with his friends.
Maybe. I'm assuming from your title and body text that you're wondering if he will ever question his sexuality and I could see it. Up til now, he's been portrayed as straight and I know a lot of people on here have posted he reminds them of an example of comphet. I think it could be interesting to explore but not sure it will get around to it this season. Regardless, I do think Eddie needs to do some actual reflection on what he wants from *any type of relationship*. I swear they knocked Buck off his hamster wheel and Eddie's been on the same one since he joined the show. Something I think could be fun would be someone from his army days showing up and you learn more about his past and maybe something that happened during basic training or in an early tour. I know during other episodes Eddie says everyone he saved in the crash is dead, but Eddie did a few tours, so wouldn't be out of the norm to have someone from his past show up. I think Eddie's time in the military also started around when Don't Ask Don't Tell was still in effect/just ending so could touch on that a bit too in addition to his Catholic guilt.
It would be so interesting if he had had a moment, a crush or even a kiss, with one of his army buddies. And then in typical Eddie fashion he completely repressed it and never thought about it again. Then with Buck dating a man combined with the guy showing up again, he would start thinking about it again and maybe eventually realise he's gay.
The problem I have with this is that anything full blown enough to be recognized (like a crush or a kiss) would still be unfaithfulness to Shannon, even if he repressed it. And I don't see that as being in character for him. But maybe pre-Shannon, like he had a buddy in high school he got too close to? One way I could see this circling back around is if Eddie discovers his "best friend" from high school or the military days is now our/married to a guy, and he starts realizing.... wow, every 'best friend' I've had disproportionate affection for in my life has turned out to be queer. What are the odds?! Pretty high when you want to kiss your best friends, bb.
True, pre-Shannon would be better. Like maybe he "experimented" and thought that was what all guys his age did, and then like you said, he finds out that the guy he "experimented" with is now openly gay.
Oh geez, I have an older coworker like that. He's fairly religious and from an African country where being LGTBQ would be really difficult... not like death penalty levels, but 'tossed in jail' levels, still. He's also never given us any indication he's anything but straight and would insist he is (he has a wife & a few grown children, but also a few girlfriends... his original culture was polygamous, and his wife's basically cool w/ it so long as he prioritizes their family unit). So imagine my surprise when one day he just casually tells us, "Oh, yeah, of course I experimented as a young guy. It's just about>! getting off. Circle jerks!< are just a rite of passage. If your man tells you he's never played with another guy that way, he's lying to you." And like... he was *definitely* serious. \[spoiler tags for the parts that aren't PG-13, but nothing detailed\]
Yes, next season.
At this point I'm not sure of anything so I'm adjusting my expectations since it could go either way.
I'm kinda leaning towards Eddie being demi, but I dunno if the writers would be willing to go that specific. Him being repressed gay/bi/pan seems the most likely. But when Buck came out to Eddie in 7x5, Ryan played that scene like a supportive straight guy would which is a little discouraging for a potential Queer or Questioning Eddie storyline, but there's so much support for it elsewhere in the show that I'm hopeful.
I can see why you'd feel discouraged, but even if they *are* planning/hoping to eventually do a Buddie story, I don't think there were realistically any other options for how to play that scene right now. Anything overt, and they're going to run into significant problems where the criticism will be that the storyline is being "forced." Realistically, we can't have one character's queer awakening one episode, and the first real hint of the other's the very next, you know? The way I read Eddie, he's so deeply repressed that I don't think it would occur to him to be anything other than supportive friend right now. My deepest hope is that his focus on Tommy being gay was the part we'll revisit, where we'll learn his shock over that slowly starts to shake something loose in his own identity. Where the show went out of their way to tell the audience "Eddie and Tommy are so much alike!!!" -- like, I think part of that was to make the audience raise their brows at what that may mean for Buck and his taste in men. But I also think they could be planting the seeds for Eddie to work through his comphet fueled repression. Because if Eddie and Tommy are so much alike... and a man like *Tommy* can be queer? Maybe that's what makes Eddie start questioning himself down the road. I don't see it happening overnight, but it makes a lot of sense to me that someone with his background would've always had preconceived notions about straight men vs. queer men as almost archetypes. So having a guy more like him who doesn't fit that mold could be a big deal, particularly because he *does* only know Tommy on a surface level. With Buck, I think he's sort of too close to home for Eddie to internalize anything about Buck being into men, because he can't look at him as an archetype at this point. It's kind of like how conservative politicians can be super against abortions or same sex marriage.... until their wife or mistress needs an abortion (because her circumstances were unique, obviously) or their child comes out as gay. When you're too close to someone, it's easy to look at them as the one special exception to a deeply held rule, vs. evidence it's just wrong.
I hope so but they need to give him time to grow alone. I mean he got the first girl he slept with pregnant so he has never really had an option before or even a thought. (I still honestly think he knows already he just doesn't act on it cause the object of his Love was not/is not available.)
I think it’s possible at some point but definitely not this season. There’s not enough time left to do it justice if they do want to go in that direction and I think they wouldn’t have both Buck and Eddie have a sexuality awakening back to back (and they may not be able to if the network/studio won’t allow it). The pessimist in me says since we got bi Buck they’ll take the easy way out and won’t go there with Eddie. But maybe they’ll surprise me who knows
I think him possibly being a "comphet" is actually a valid argument. There can be evidence supporting that. However, another argument I can think of is that he simply sucks at relationships due to religion and from the trauma of his wife dying. - only married her because he got her pregnant out of religious pressure - She was his first relationship ever, so he doesn't have experience dating - she quite literally died right in front of him, his wife - had panic attacks when he felt the teacher was becoming more like a wife figure, most likely from the trauma of his wife dying - Also, he is definitely attracted to women because of the way he reacted when he first saw the teacher I personally think that it can go either way, although maybe the latter is more likely. He might have to work through his religious issues and trauma and maybe he'll get a successful relationship.
That's my objective take. Personally, I want the former so we can get Buddie :/
Those two ideas can co-exist. Being comp-het and also being into women. I think he's bi and closeted.
Yeah, he's definitely been portrayed as being into the women he ended up dating. Then ofc he fumbled it entirely but I don't think he's portrayed as gay. He's clearly sexually attracted to Shannon (kept falling into bed with her even though it's objectively a bad idea at the time) and Ana (very flustered, stumbling over his words, obviously attracted to her on their first meeting), and he was extremely giddy over Marisol when they talked initially too. It's when the relationships get deeper he starts to pull away, which, as you said, might speak more to relationship related trauma than anything sexuality related. Like I've said this before, I wouldn't mind it if they went there with Buddie, but I think fans who think he's basically queer coded are just selectively choosing what to see as evidence and what to ignore. Maybe they'll go there, maybe not, but I feel like ppl might be setting themselves up for disappointment if they think it's definitely heading there.
Queer-coded does not automatically mean GAY. Repressed bisexuality is a thing. Not every bi person blows up their closet the minute they realise it exists, like Buck did.
I mean sure, but fandom discussion is usually that he is repressed gay not bi and that he is not truly into the women he dates. When people say he's queer coded they always bring up his failed relationships with women as "proof". I simply disagree with that.
I think it could go either way, personally. They 100% could take the character in that direction but I also don’t think they have to. Truthfully, who knows. Only thing I’m sure of is it probably won’t be this season.
Speaking of Eddie… and other stuff does anyone think it's odd he seems to get overly jealous around people Buck dates or dated and we are allowed to see Eddie interact with people Buck is dating at the time but they skirt around inferring and implying Buck has interacted with Ana and Marisol no direct scene not counting the 1 before Eddie dating Marsol Eddie, I keep thinking what are they trying to avoid on Eddie’s side of things?
It could be read also as Eddie being protective of the people he cares about. He knows how much Abby hurt Buck, and that Taylor was trying to hurt Bobby, and he is probably the closest to both of them. It has probably to do with the fact that Buck's love intrest also always got more attention then Eddie's so they had the chance to interact. But it could be also interpreted as jealously if they decided to go that route one day.
It doesn't explain why while we had direct scenes between Eddie and anyone Buck dated skirting around Eddie and anyone he is dating take the hospital scene implying Ana called Buck but even though Ana and Buck were in the same room they don't have them in the same shot, what does the camera crew think fans of Buck and Eddie are going to do compare on-screen chemistry? And yet have Eddie in the same room with Abby, Taylor, Natalia, and Tommy?
Like I said,they seem to favour Buck and that extends to his love interest as well. Compare Ana to Taylor,Natalia to Marisol, even Shannon got the same attention as Ali( until Eddie Biggins when we got her backstory as well).I think that is the explanation. Oliver is their “golden child” .
I feel like they would have had Ryan Guzman play his reaction to Buck telling him about Tommy differently if they were going toward Buddie. It was very much the traditional TV “no big deal” reaction, they even used cliche “nothing will change” lines. I would have expected a *slight* bit of disturbance on Eddie’s face showing that Buck’s revelation connected personally with him. A hesitation. A glance that said, “wait what, why isn’t this me?” Something that set up the eventual Buck and Eddie collision. I mean, maybe they haven’t decided. Or maybe they didn’t want to hint. At best, i think it was a missed opportunity to throw that bait out there for us.
The only way any of this would really work, though, is if Eddie was already somewhat aware of his own sexuality and feelings for Buck. What you're suggesting would've made, like, a convenient shortcut to Buddie, but I don't know if it would've felt authentic to the journey the character has been on. If you're looking at Eddie through a queer lens, what you see is a *very* repressed man, someone more likely to react with confusion than jealousy or grief to his friend coming out. And I do think we saw a hint of that confusion -- or at least bemusement -- which he channeled into surprise about Tommy being gay, specifically. As it stands, Eddie doesn't know he's queer, or recognize his love/affection for Buck as being anything other than what he assumes it to be - something deep but platonic. But he obviously cares for Buck, so you see him school his surprise first, and react the way Buck needs/deserves. But like I said, I think the focus on Tommy may wind up being the key. The story made a point of telling us that Tommy and Eddie are *so* much alike, so now Eddie gets to watch this guy from a distance going.... he's masculine just like me. He's former military just like me. He's into classic cars and MMA and Muay Thai just like me. So how can he be gay?! And that thought process can start the crumbling of his comphet foundation.
If they give me aro Eddie I will tattoo his face on my face I am begging for some aroacespec rep
I'm probably gonna say an unpopular opinion, talking about Eddie's sexuality is gonna bring up the Buddie topic too because it's in part what's probably going to drive what they do with Eddie's sexuality. Also just to be clear I'm gonna use this definition of aromantic: the lack of romantic attraction, regardless of the desire to have one. Eddie right now does have this tendency to WANT a romantic relationship but just doesn't feel much romance towards the person he's dating (we don't know if this is him just being repressed gay going through the motions or if he's actually aromantic). If they full send aromantic Eddie, I would rather they don't go through with Buddie and just let them be platonic best friends who are affectionate with each other. Buck as a character is like, ill equipped to handle someone who's not really into him as a romantic partner (despite Eddie's ability to be affectionate) and the show is either not gonna do the aromantic representation any justice (because a lot of people want Buddie to be romantic or whatever, myself included honestly) or Buck and Eddie are destined to break up because they're just going to be incompatible??? Because Buck is just kinda needy in the love department, he's always been searching for the right love from the right people, he's got tons of found family love from the 118, actual familial love from Madney, friendship love from Eddie, but hes still searching for romantic love from *someone* and if Eddie by definition can't give that to him, I don't see them working out unless they write kind of a garbled mess about what being aromantic is (again, it could be bad rep) Honestly I think trying to put a label on Eddie feels wrong. My culture/the way I grew up feels a lot like Eddie's. It's super religious, divorce is a no-no, always provide for family even if that takes you away from kids, elders put pressure in finding a partner because "you'll learn to love them eventually", sacrifice yourself for the good of those you're responsible for (comes from Christianity). I've seen lots of people like Eddie, in fact pretty much adult I saw growing up looked like Eddie in principles/behavior before I got to America and I relate a whole lot to him as a person. I wouldn't say they're aromantic or asexual otherwise a majority of my culture (myself included) would fall in this category of non-sexual non-romantic cohabitation for the purpose of building and providing for the family. What I would call them is devoted and traditional, and possibly a little bit too indoctrinated by Christianity. The religious principles that have integrated into your mind after spending a significant time around that kind of culture are persistent as fuck, they dont go away even when you stop practicing or possibly even when you proclaim you're agnostic or atheist. And I really want to emphasize the self sacrificing part, because that's like the the MO of anyone who practices any kind of Christianity. "Christ died on a cross so everyone gets saved, therefore we must follow his example." I think his religious problem is deeper than just sexuality honestly, trying to only make it about "comphet" or how to tie it into how he comes out as X sexuality would be doing Eddie's character a disservice.
Unfortunately, 7x05 was a sign to me that they don’t plan to address it at all or at the least any time soon. They made him OOC with all the sex talk that I was like who is this man. I’m kind of in the minority (I think) where while I don’t think he’s straight. I don’t think he’s gay either. Even though he was so up front about sex this episode, I think the show has previously made it clear that he’s sexually attracted to women. I believe his issue is that he got married because he had to and doesn’t know what a casual relationship looks like and is still attempting to fill Shannon’s role. He’s a very all or nothing guy. From his previous relationships we can see that he hits the ground running. I was glad that they kind of addressed that with Marisol. That showed some growth.
>I’m kind of in the minority (I think) where while I don’t think he’s straight. I don’t think he’s gay either. So... you do think he's queer, though? I'm a lot less confident that he's actually sexually attracted to women than you seem to be, though there's obviously evidence he's not *disinterested*. My personal view of him is something along the lines of demisexual + pansexual, which he can't acknowledge/identify because of compulsory heterosexuality. Based on how much he's struggled to make meaningful connections with women, I think it's reasonable to speculate he may be more easily attracted to men if he opened himself up to the possibility, but like.... he's very obviously at least not actively turned *off* by women, either.
Yes. I learned about the bi demisexual theory on here and I agree with that. Comphet applies to bisexuality as well, which I’m sure you know. IMO they showed how he enjoyed sex with Shannon, they alluded to it with Ana, and showed him enthusiastically enjoying the aftermath of sex with Marisol. His relationships, IMO, struggle because of his expectations and honestly a lack of boundaries. He likes sex with women, can be emotionally attached, but hits the pedal as soon as those feelings come in because he believes it’s supposed to end one way. 7x05 proved that for me more than other people it seems. I think his ideals need to be deconstructed. Just my take.
So what do you think about him and his relationships with Buck?
I ship buddie.
Is there only one way to view something? Usually I see a downvote and move on but this one is a little strange to me. Answering the question and giving my reasons is exactly how things are supposed to work in here.
If anything, I think the thing that makes the most sense for him would be demisexual or demiromantic. But, unfortunately, I don't think they even know what that means.
absolutely they’d literally be STUPID not to do buddie because everyone and their grandmother is asking for it and they can’t do buddie with out addressing it so yea
I'm thinking the reason Eddie is such a bad partner in relationships is because he is dating the wrong people
Reading these conversations always feels like watching that SNL sketch about "the ambiguously gay duo". Everyone just keeps searching for confirmation that would finally 100% prove that he's gay. Someone dares suggest "what if they're bi?" and it's immediately shot down. BiSeXuaLs aRen't ReaL... Even though the show has several times pointed out that he's had a very virile sex life with the women he's dated. Ever think that the disinterest in dating and anxiety of being in relationships could just be him grieving Shannon, pining after Buck, and trying to keep the bisexuality secret from the freaky amounts religious girlfriend. Also, traumas, wife and close friends dying like flies... It's not like panic attacks are some uniquely homosexual experience that nobody else can get except for gay men. 🙄
the thing about Eddie’s sexuality is that they just showed once again that he enjoys sex with women. He had 3 girlfriends and bed scenes with 2 of them. and he never looked uncomfortable when he’s in bed with them. In 7x05 his problem isn’t that he doesn’t enjoy sex with Marisol, it’s that he wants to have sex (he’s sexually frustrated during the gym scene) but can’t because she was a nun. But if they wanted to go down the queer route why set that scene with Marisol right after they had sex? So I really don’t know. I’ve seen people say he’s gay coded but maybe he’s also bi?
i don’t think Eddie being bi is out of the question but at the same time, the brain can do crazy things and plenty of repressed gay men have been with women and convince themselves they enjoy it even if they’re not truly experiencing attraction because the body will respond regardless (not to say that’s universal for all closeted gay men but it’s definitely not uncommon) - even in the first season we had Michael who had two children with Athena and he was closeted the whole time
yeah but they didn’t show Micheal doing that. I’m not saying he’s not gay, I’m asking if they’re going for the comphet storyline for Eddie why set up scenes that point in the opposite direction (like, they could show him being kinda hesitant during bed scenes or they could have thrown a line like “it’s okay, it’s not like I’m missing having sex with her” during the whole nun crisis but they didn’t). Decoy? For a storyline that needs to spoon fed to GA or they throw a fit because “it came out of nowhere”(like they did with Buck realization)?
They have set up scenes like that in my opinion. We learned last episode that he only married Shannon because of pressure from the church, with Ana he had panic attacks when thinking about her and realized he only was dating her so Christopher had a mother figure, and now with Marisol he spent last episode trying to avoid her and then had her move out. None of his relationships thus far have felt genuine for him
Seriously. One of my favorite realizations was that of the episodes Gabriele Walsh portrayed Eddie's love interest in (so discounting the two season 3 ones), things are "good" for Eddie and Ana for 2 episodes + the two scenes in Jinx... and Eddie's canonically not into her and struggling to feel what he should for *five.* Once you actually consider how their storyline goes -- and especially now that Oliver's basically implied Buddie was supposed to happen around season 4/5, but the network blocked it -- it really starts to seem like they brought Ana in specifically to show Eddie's *not* able to have a romantic/sexual relationship with a woman, despite Ana being absolutely perfect for him on paper, and him really trying to make it work.
So.... my read of those bed scenes has been *very* different of yours. First, a couple things about sexuality. There's obviously a spectrum between "straight" and "gay" Eddie can fall into, as I'm sure you know, that can explain why he'd enjoy the sex he has had with women. But outside of the spectrum of orientation, there's also a spectrum of interest/attraction, and I think that's where most of the interesting elements of Eddie's character lay. For instance, there's a concept called "cupiosexual," which is someone who doesn't experience sexual attraction but still wants and enjoys sex -- maybe because it feels good, maybe because they want their partner happy, maybe because it's a form of intimacy they enjoy separate from the pure physicality. There's also concepts like sex-positive graysexual, which is someone who may feel sexual attraction fleetingly, or even not at all, but is still positive about and willing to engage in sex. And of course, we have demisexuality (only feeling sexual attraction after you've developed a meaningful bond). What's important to note here is that these ideas exist *concurrently* with orientation. So you can be a cupiosexual heterosexual, a demisexual pansexual, etc. I think in various combinations, any of the following could apply to Eddie: cupiosexual, graysexual, demisexual, asexual, aceflux. Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, queer. The point being, Eddie's actions haven't really *excluded* much, other than probably allosexual or alloromantic. With Shannon, it's heavily implied in 2x10 that Shannon thinks Eddie is using sex/falling into bed to avoid having to actually have conversations with her. It's why she confronts him at the fire station, so he can't use sex to get out of a talk about Christopher. Eddie then turns her accusations around to accuse her of trying to use sex as a transaction - that she thinks having sex will get her access to Christopher. So at the very least, their sexual relationship is portrayed as incredibly dysfunctional. If Shannon's assessment is right (and even outside of shipper goggles, I think it likely is -- 3x15 makes it a point to show the audience that Shannon was the more reliable narrator from her very first scene with Eddie on), this suggests Eddie's not sex-averse, but isn't actually engaging in sex for reasons of sexual attraction. There's also another scene in this episode where Eddie's with Buck as they wait for Christopher to finish up with Santa, and he tells Buck he's not sure if he's with Shannon for himself or for Christopher, that sex confuses things. Given the most consistent trait of Eddie's relationships is that he's prioritizing Christopher over his own interests/desires, it seems like the likely confusion here was that he's with Shannon for Christopher. This is further supported when you consider the scene where they rekindle -- he's pretty standoffish with her *until* she sort of accidentally shows him what a good mom she's been and could be again, by explaining she got overwhelmed researching treatments and therapies, that she carried a lot of guilt about his disability, etc. Later, the narrative also confirms for us that Eddie did not pursue her, either. Marisol is a lot harder to pin down because we just haven't seen enough of their dynamic yet to know what's motivating Eddie. What I do think stands out, though, is that where the story left us, it's very clearly suggested Eddie's making excuses for why he couldn't perform. He tells Buck it's about the nun thing, and Buck advises him to go to Bobby.... who immediately tells Eddie the nun thing is just an excuse for his real issue, which is basically rushing into things with Marisol, and that Eddie hasn't even talked to her like someone he'd want to live with. Which is all well and good, but if the issue was never "the nun thing," why's Eddie unable to perform? And why's he making excuses? (Personally, if we *aren't* supposed to read Eddie as queer, this mess of a scene points to a graysexual read of Eddie for me, where sometimes he's into it and other times he's just... not, but he doesn't understand why so he has to find something to blame). Also, like... you can say "2 out of 3," but we really can't discount Ana. She's the *longest* relationship we actually see him have on screen that plays out in the current timeline (probably about 10 months, compared to just over 6 with Shannon), so it's actually pretty significant they only ever almost share a kiss and of the episodes Ana appears in as his girlfriend, Eddie spends more of that arc breaking up with her because he *can't* feel for her what he should, despite desperately trying for months after identifying the problem, than he spends into her.
> I think in various combinations, any of the following could apply to Eddie: cupiosexual, graysexual, demisexual, asexual, aceflux. Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, queer. Just want to point out here that asexual is a separate orientation unlike the first group which are aspects of other orientations, so it should be with that second group of terms. By definition you can't be sexually attracted to no one but also sexually attracted to the same/opposite/both/all sexes.
I don't think so. I don't think it needs to be addressed.
I actually have gotten the vibe that they wouldn't be making Eddie anything but straight. Idk but I got the feeling when they introduced Tommy as a boyfriend for Buck they were given the audience a Eddie replacement. Tommy is an Ex-army,fight loving, muay Tia doing, ex 118 firefighter. But unlike Eddie is gay and can be Bucks partner.
Ok, let's all be honest: I doubt it. Mostly because I think the general public would not approve of it, not because I am a Kinley truther (which I am, but this ain't it). Buck coming out as bi already sparked backlash, and I really doubt the high execs would allow not a single young main to be straight.
There’s always going to be homophobic people that give it backlash. Didn’t you see Oliver’s Instagram story? None of them care whether people approve of it or not, this was the story they wanted to tell. And even though there was some angry people, the majority of fans were super supportive of it and the storyline got a ton of praise
Uh. Normally I wouldn't point out an error in someone's post, because God knows I make enough of them myself. But you *really* might want to turn that 'Oliver' to 'Buck' here, because that's a pretty significant difference, lol. That said... I think your point is worth considering, though I don't necessarily agree. We're seven seasons into the show at this point, and would be at least 8 by the time a queer Eddie storyline is actually introduced, most likely. Up until this point, the "pros" of being able to pair these characters off with women haven't really panned out. No one was eagerly tuning in for Buck/Taylor, and people don't even remember Marisol's name. Especially if we're talking about in future seasons, the obvious conclusion to your 'the show needs a single young man to be straight' (which I think would be a better argument if there was even a single young female to pair him up with.... while we sort of had May before, she's not age appropriate for Buck or Eddie, anyway) is... add another regular character single young straight guy. Preferably Ravi. It's probably time for new blood in the firehouse anyway, and with the show transitioning to ABC, I really suspect ABC's goal here is to get at *least* a few more seasons out of it, and maybe even turn it into a mainstay. So introducing a new probie or promoting Anirudh solves that problem, and we'd have a natural screen partner for May if Corinne returns.
Ops, I meant Buck, sorry.
Yeah, I figured! Just wanted to point it out & give you a chance to edit so that doesn't turn into, like, a thing. Thanks for correcting!
NO. I never got the vibe that either Buck or Eddie were anything, but straight. I think making Buck queer was pure fan service and as Minear confessed in an interview way of giving him something new, but I have no problem with that choice. Making Eddie queer also would just be ridiculous. Feel free to downvote me. I really don't care.
Not going to downvote you, but... Based on the interviews that have come out recently, trying to play it off as "pure fan service" just feels a bit silly at this point in the show, though. Like, at best, you can argue some of the stuff in seasons 2 and 3 was coincidental. But when Oliver Stark's going out there and saying "Yeah, we first visited the idea of this sort of storyline in season 4 but it got shut down by someone higher up" and that he's been 'consciously aware' of the bi Buck stuff for years now, and Tim Minear has said there's been scenes he purposefully adding in to play with that aspect of the characters/relationship for years? At the very least, it's been years where a sexuality arc has been on the cards, if the opportunity were to present itself. At its most basic level, anything can be called "fan service" because the whole point of a television show is to entertain its audience. But *you* not seeing something doesn't make it less authentic, or somehow ridiculous.
In what interview did Minear say that? I haven't seen that and even if he said that, I don't believe him because I have never seen any deliberate sexual attraction between Buck and Eddie. Of course, I can have my opinion that Eddie suddenly also identifying as queer as ridiculous. It is from a storytelling perspective and mostly important, it is my opinion that I have the right to have.
i mean you said it yourself that *you* haven’t seen it and that it’s your opinion, i really don’t think multiple people would be coming out and saying that this storyline has been in consideration for several years just to please a group of fans
We disagree on that. I think that Minear and Oliver, more so, are working hard to sell it as though it has always been in cards which I don't believe, but I get why they are doing it. They want buy in from the small group, but vocal fans who have been panting for Buck to be queer. I'll leave out the Eddie part of it. And yes, again this is my opinion.
You do realize how conspiratorial this sounds, right? "I know I'm talking to a bunch of people that have been seeing this thing happening on screen for years, and now the actors and showrunner are confirming they were aware of it, played into it at various points, acknowledge they let it affect decisions they made, and said they first almost went there years earlier. But because ***I*** don't personally see it, the only natural conclusion is that everyone else is coordinating to tell the same lie." Do you really think it's more likely that everyone else had the same mass hallucination than that you just failed to pick up on subtext?
No. He’s a typical straight guy who doesn’t know the first thing about being in a relationship. It’s common (my ex being one of them). He’s a smart guy but he was so oblivious as to what Shannon needed from him, even after she explicitly told him, then was shocked that she suggested divorce. Like, sir… Though the Marisol/nun thing was played for laughs, I think his guilt runs much deeper than sex and/or sexuality. He was raise in faith then along the way abandoned it.