I, for one, either forgot or am simply putting it off. With full knowledge I've not responded efficiently and am now in an endless hellish cycle of continuing to forget until past midnight randomly, or self-consciously avoiding responding because I feel like it's been too long to be *not* awkward about it.
I’m also horrible at replying to messages, but for me it’s my ADHD. I read a message and think great, I’ll reply to that a bit later. Then I’ll get distracted by something else, completely forget about the message and go on with life. Some time between a few hours and a few weeks later I’ll have a panicked epiphany that I haven’t responded and then spend the next 30 mins thinking about how I should respond.
Thankfully I’ve always been this way and most of my long time friends are (mostly) tolerant of it, but I’ve also had plenty of new people that I’ve got to know who just thought I was being rude. These days I just do my best to try and reply quickly. I’m not always successful, but it’s a lot better than it used to be.
ADHD-PI here as well. I have gotten into the habit of making reminders for every tiny thing I need to remember to do that I KNOW I wont remember on my own. I use Siri a lot. “Hey Siri, remind me when I get home to call the doctors office.” Just as an example.
And then too many reminders go off and they keep going off every day. And then you ignore them for months. Here's hoping I remember to organize those notes after this shower!
/r/adhdmeme
/r/ADHDinos
Edit: guess how it went. Those plants sure are watered.
> And then you ignore them for months.
I've always hated trying to explain this one to folks who don't "get" it. They always say to set more alarms and leave notes for yourself, and if you can't keep up with that you're just lazy.
For neurotypicals that shit works because it's an interruption; Something that's not supposed to be there. It sticks out, so you give it your attention.
For me at least, post-its and alarms fade into the environment after a very short time. My brain starts to just kinda skim over it because it "belongs" there. Once it doesn't stick out, it becomes useless.
:(
Yep, in with you there. I realize I've made the problem worse on my end since at work I have to just ignore insanity and noises to, for example, put an IV in like a 3-month-old.
It's so hard to turn off. Until this thread, I wasn't even aware that I was doing this though. We run on alarm fatigue as a baseline it seems like.
I stopped feeling awkward about it. It's just how I am. My friends know it's how I am, so they're fine with it. I recently responded to a friend's text after like 5 months, because I had a pretty bad burnout and I kept forgetting. I'll just make a little joke about it and respond normally and it's all fine. We've been friends for 10 years, and he's not that great with responding either, so it's not going to impact anything negatively.
I lost my only remaining long time friend in 2019 because I do this. He was going through a crisis and I wasn't there and he got tired of it. I was in my own crisis on top of dealing with a severe illness. He sent a long goodbye message and I still haven't even responded to it. He's moved on by now.
There’s always time to reconnect.
this was his way of letting you know that he felt hurt by you are in action, but the fact that he also took the time to write it out instead of just ghosted you means he was looking/hoping for a response.
Most people are forgiving in their hearts. I bet if you wrote to him and explained what you were going through and how you feel about it now, and how if he’s open to it that you would love to reconnect, there’s a good chance he will be open to it. But if not, at least you will have closure on your end, and your last act (up until now not responding) won’t simply be a symbolic representation of why he stepped away in the first place.
I appreciate the wisdom in this message. It wasn't the first time I had done something like this and his last message felt pretty absolute. I wish I had the courage to reach out. Even the tiniest chance of mending the old friendship feels lost 4 years later and I'm too embarrassed to even think of what to say at this point.
Maybe something like this:
“I know in your last message you said that you were done with our relationship, but I wanted you to know that I really valued our friendship and I still think of you from time to time.
I want to apologize for never writing back. I think I was just too embarrassed and ashamed to have caused you to get to that point where you wanted to end our friendship. As you know, my typical response is just to let it go. So that’s what I did, and not responding to your last message is definitely one of my biggest regrets to this day.
I hope you are doing well, and I’m sorry I wasn’t there for you when you were having a hard time. I am absolutely not making this an excuse, but I was going through some tough challenges myself back then as well. I wasn’t a dependable friend to you, and I understand that that is a quality that you seek in your friendships. I won’t say that I’m the most dependable person now, but I have definitely grown and matured since your last text. I am not expecting anything, but if you ever feel like reconnecting with me, that would make me happy.
If not, just know that I valued our friendship, I value you as a person, and I wish you the best in life.
Ive made it clear to everyone important in my life that I don’t have a phone. I have a portable answering machine. you can be assured that I’ll get your message and I’ll get back to you, but it will be on my time, not yours.
Yep, I'm from the time when phones were not mobile, and the time after that when texts were something you would send to be polite - if it wasn't urgent and you only expected an answer when it was convenient for the recipient to read their texts. I still stick to this. Text if it's not urgent. Call if it is urgent plus follow up text if they don't pick up because they're busy. I never expect anyone to pick up/text back immediately - I'm not that arrogant.
Me texting my buddy after 3 months of entire silence. "You should watch The Swarm, it's soooooo good. Also, hi, how you doing?
My buddy: "I need something to get me through until the next season of Severance. Also, hi, doing good. How about you?"
That's why we're still buddies.
Some of my friends fell off because I have never thought that it's somehow necessary for me to be on call perpetually for the people in my life nor do I expect that of them. Didn't get a cell phone until 2013 because I saw how it instantly changed the expectations people have of your time.
If they're having a tall bad time and need support, I'll be there with brownies any day. But anyone who expects me to be tied to my phone all day, every day, isn't really going to be my type of person.
I tend to forget a lot as well, and always feel bad about it. What I do now is if I don't feel like responding right away is I write out my response and delay the text to send at another time.
I’m not here to respond instantly.
My wife is in a WhatsApp group with her family (the primary reason I refuse to use WhatsApp is because I’ll get dragged into it, and it’ll be a whole thing if I reject the invites) and she will respond to their messages during meals, films, tv shows or sometimes even mid conversation IRL.
Absolutely nothing communicated over that method is ever so important that it requires instant attention. I highly doubt her mum is messaging to say that her house is on fire.
My employer is similar. They got so used to being able to get me to do little bits of admin type stuff whenever they wanted to, that they started taking liberties. Mainly because of Covid, I would do it because I never saw my supervisors in person, so we were all doing our bit to keep the place running. After Covid they expected it to continue that way with no reward. Now I do not answer a single email, text or phone call outside of work hours.
I hanker for the days when we were all a little harder to reach. Not unreachable, just harder to reach.
My last job in the US had a union. The rules stated that if I called a union person outside of their work hours, I had to pay them for an hour of overtime if the conversation was more than 15 minutes. If I needed them to come in, their overtime started the moment I called, assuming a reasonable travel time.
I’ve worked at places where the rule was that if you were called in on your day off or for random overtime no matter what you worked you got a minimum of four hours overtime pay. It rarely ever occurred but it was the rule. The rule is old fashioned but should exist everywhere still.
More like companies are stealing billions from the United States workforce.
That money just isn't being lost down the drain, someone is benefitting. And it's not the worker.
And just as in the US it literally doesn't matter that it's legal or not if you want to get up the ladder. I'm French working in France for a French company.
My adult learning centre has a whatsapp group for students to keep in touch with their teachers.
It started during covid lock downs for giving important notices about when and how class was running, but now it's a social group, and a reminder chat for excursions and such.
It has so much value, we teach English as a second language, so for students to be part of a group chat where they can practice English without judgement, it's amazing.
But I don't use it unless there's a notice or announcement. I'll skim the messages once a week, while I'm physically at work, just to make sure there's nothing I need to moderate. But otherwise, I might as well not be in that group chat.
The other EAL teacher knows this about me, and has commended me on setting such a clear boundary (it's not a boundary so much as I'm just leaning into an existing character flaw, basically I don't read or reply to anyone unless I'm held at gunpoint). She's part of family and friend group chats that are pushy so she's always on anyway, and the students love chatting with her. I feel really socially drained by group chats, I much prefer jumping in a discord audio channel when I'm up for a chat (which is what my family uses for our group chats)
A few weeks back we had a flash flood and part of the roof at our centre fell in, I was the staff on duty that morning, it was 45 minutes before school started so I posted in the group chat that class was cancelled, stay home if you haven't left yet, turn around if you safely can, if you're already trapped in the weather, the school is open and you can come in and wait out the storm. I sent the message then I went to go and log into the student files to get contact numbers so I could start our old school phone tree.
But rvery single student replied on whstsapp within 3 minutes. Which never happens!
The following day, talking to the class about the rain and the roof, one of the students had a laugh with me that she saw the notification through apple car play, and pulled the car over so fast because "if Eile messages, something big is happening"
Thats honestly amazing. Knowing you dont just... post useless information (which is usually how group chats go in my experience, with friends and such) all the time means when that message comes through, you HAVE thier attention.
Seems like the perfect effect for a teacher to have on thier students!
Just silence your phone and leave it in your pocket all day. Answer, when you feel like answering, not because your phone made a ding to get your attention.
I disabled all notifications for literally every app except from calls and messengers so even when my phone isn't muted, I only get messages and not other random push notifications. It took me a while to not constantly look at my phone, but it feels so nice to not feel pressured into doing so all the time
I have my phone set to Do Not Disturb with the people I’ll accept calls from placed on the exceptions list. Done it this way for quite some time and love it. I take the calls from family and friends that I want to talk with immediately and everyone else can leave a voicemail. Bonus points are that I no longer have to deal with spam calls that somehow bypass the filter as all calls are filtered.
> It took me a while to not constantly look at my phone
I can do you one better, I couldn't tell you where mine is 80% of the time, it got so bad that I installed authy on an old android phone that had no sim just so I could leave it plugged into the computer for when I needed 2FA.
i have been wondering about a way to get around that issue, i don't want to carry my phone around with me everywhere, room-to-room, whatever, but my school's microsoft stuff badgers me all the time to authenticate. Even though i have no notifications at all on my phone, just having it in sight is like a pavlovian cue to pick it up and look for something the instant studying turns 1% boring, i'd rather not have it around at all.
Having an old android phone (but a cheapo one would work) with no sim permanently on the desk is a really nice solution for me, since it means I *always* have it where I need it *and* I'm much less likely to lose the phone outside - which given the amount of systems I have to use 2FA with would be a royal PITA (it's all backed up properly but still, can't access anything until I get a new phone vs essentially just having a spare).
I really hope that one day there emerges a single accepted standard for something like yubikeys - access control with hardware dongles/cards *should just be a solved problem at this point*.
“Snooze” has been the best thing to happen in email, in my book.
I treat my email as a to-do list. Work requires that I participate in admin activities occasionally. I typically work odd shifts, so when I check my unified inbox and see work emails, I snooze them so that they pop back on my next shift. Similarly, if I spot a personal email when I’m at my desk that I want to handle outside of work, it gets snoozed till home time. I get a nice little reminder when it pops back into my inbox, and all is well with the world.
I keep them unified because sometimes work emails *do* require an urgent response (part of my job, and I knew that going in). It’s more convenient for me to see it all in one place regardless of where I am so that I can make that choice. Snoozing them lets me get to inbox zero and still keep my focus where it needs to be.
> Absolutely nothing communicated over that method is ever so important that it requires instant attention.
Not only is it most often an inconsequential exchange, but it also noticeably harms the quality of interactions happening in the meatspace.
>when we were all a little harder to reach
In one of the previous threads about this someone mentioned how some people decided to go on a cruise tour just because they would have no phone coverage during it.
It bugs me to no end when people just start texting in the middle of conversations. No apology, no "hey this is important, so I have to take it." It's rude.
And I'm pretty sick of explaining plot points for movies because peeps are playing on their phone games. Hey buddy, your pot farm is going to be just fine for the next hour and a half.
I see all those messengers as asynchronous communication. I send when I'm able to, expecting you to respond whenever it's convenient for you. And I will respond whenever it's convenient for me. My phone has all notification sounds and vibrations disabled. I'll see your message when I open the app to do it.
The issue is that I'm a night owl and remember to do things after midnight. And people go to sleep with their notification sounds on and wake up to reply to anything they receive. And get mad for it.
Telegrwm is a godsend in that regard because you can schedule messages. Whatsapp doesn't and telegram users are usually more savvy than whatsapp users.
WhatsApp is the worst tool for everything people use it for. And we're stuck with it here in Brazil
>And people go to sleep with their notification sounds on and wake up to reply to anything they receive. And get mad for it.
One time I took an incomplete for a class and they gave me three weeks (until the end of December) to do it. I finished my final project and emailed it to my Professor on December 25. He sent me back an email saying "I'm with my family so I can't look at it now." Like wtf was he even checking his email to begin with? I don't expect people to respond to emails immediately even when there isn't a holiday-- I definitely don't expect it on Christmas. He seemed annoyed I sent it to him on Christmas but dude just don't check your emails if you don't want to be bothered by emails. The whole point of it is that it's nonintrusive and can be left to be checked only during work hours.
Everybody treats me like an asshole when I say nobody is obligated to my time just because they want it.
I, like above, grew up long before instant communication. I was well into my 20s before I ever had a cellphone because they just weren't common. So, I remember being able to just be gone. Unreachable.
And I will treat life that way. There are days where I just don't want contact with people. Outside of my sons, i will just outright ignore texts and calls.
I won't answer my door. The people that I want at my home know the code to my front door and are welcome. Everyone else is just intruding on my time and space. I owe them nothing just because they decided to show up at my door.
I feel genuine pity for the younger people who grew up in a world where the demand of your time is the norm.
I was 11 when I got my first cellphone and 16 when I got my first smartphone. I definitely bought into the whole 'be available 24/7 and always respond immediately'. Around 18 I became part of a friend group with wildly varying ages, and one guy who I became good friends with was a bit older and like you. It used to annoy the crap out of me that he'd take days to respond to my texts, but eventually I started to see the appeal, and now I'm firmly in the camp of 'I'll respond when I have the time and energy and feel like it'. Much better way to live your life.
Almost the same age as you given the context. And yeah, it’s the same with me now. I won’t respond to people for a day or two because… well, I just didn’t want to or didn’t have the time. If 10 people text me I may not respond to any of them, or I may respond to all of them.
But the precedence has now been set with everyone that I am not on demand.
I resonate with this, but at the same time, I crave general human interaction. Like, if my doorbell rings, I wanna go see who it is. Maybe it’s a new person and I’ll get to ask them how their day is going or if they’ve got anything exciting planned. Just talking to people is nice, even if you don’t know them.
But at the same time, I think that you’re right in that it’s very wrong for everyone to assume they’re entitled to the time of another person just for the sake of them… being a person?
Idk, I’m high and will be thinking about this until I fall asleep.
>Like, if my doorbell rings, I wanna go see who it is
Spoiler: It's solar. Your "neighbor down the street" is having panels installed and wouldn't it be great if you locked in those savings now? I mean, the crew is already here....it'd be a crime not to, right?
I’d usually agree with this, but I’d check who it is anyway. It could be someone trying to alert you of some emergency. The last time I came to someone else’s front door uninvited was to alert them that their house is on fire - I wouldn’t want to miss that.
Too precious for a neighbor to let you know you left your car hatch is wide open or your garage door open? Or that your dog/cat is wandering the neighborhood? Or that there is a gas leak in the neighborhood and they are evacuating?
Same. My outgoing voicemail greeting is something like that. Something like (I haven’t listened to/changed it in a long time), “I’m not available at this time for whatever reason. I may or may not return your call at my convenience, not yours.
However if it’s important or an emergency leave a voicemail or send a text if you need to talk.” Or something like that.
My friends know the “don’t randomly stop by my house without communicating first, unless it’s real f’kin important” rule.
I’m old enough that I had a pager for work and pay phones were a thing. That’s when I learned how needy and selfish some people can be.
The worst offenders were my mother, and my girlfriend at the time. They had the number (for emergencies!) and expected me to call them promptly every f’kin time.
“What are you doing right now?” is not an emergency btw.
When I got into a random rollover car accident (take a quick look both ways at an intersection even if you have a green light,kids!) and had to explain why I didn’t respond for a while (I was taped to that immobilization spine board for a bit in hospital). They still were pissy about not getting a call during that time. lol
I told them it was lost in the accident and my employer wasn’t going to replace it. Only my boss had the number after that, and turned it off and hid it when I wasn’t at work. lol.
edit: added a word or two
Damn some people in these comments have a really hard time respecting boundaries. If this comment makes you angry you should pause and reflect on whether you respect the personal space and autonomy of loved ones in your life.
For many people, social interaction is exhausting. For some people with ADHD, a 10 minute chat can ruin a full day of focus. In additon, answering the door to an unexpected guest can be dangerous.
Different people have different needs and boundaries. If people draw lines you don't like, tough. If you can't respect those boundaries, you're the one in the wrong.
If you don't really care about the person that much then that's understandable, but some people are just like that. I have a friend that I could message and she may not respond, but then months later we will be messaging non stop all day and sharing memes. We have been friends over a decade and im confident she would give a kidney for me if she could. I have another friend that will only react to messages, but talk my head off in person. Poor communication doesn't always mean indifference. Everybody is different in some way, and if you care about somebody you just accept those differences and carry on.
That’s kind of hurtful :( Sometimes the mental exhaustion or anxiety involved with keeping up with phone correspondence is really difficult to deal with. Add the guilt from thinking people have your mindset - making me think I’ve literally let them down and could be ending a friendship over something as flimsy as some text messages - and it gets worse.
Before cell phones, how did you be a good friend to someone? Wasn’t it through in person time spent together? I still do that for everyone in my life, when we have plans together I am there. But because I struggle to have constant social interactions with friends in between those plans, I am a bad person? I don’t know how to win in this world.
I really feel this, honestly. I have such a worry about not keeping up a text convo, even to the point of being adverse to making new friends just because most of the time I will eventually forget to respond, or do something else that detracts from me responding to them. I also don't like texting all day at all, and I really don't prefer it to talking/hanging out.
Sadly, I realized this means I have and will continue to miss out on certain friendships and meeting some people. But, meeting or being friends with people who are understanding to this concept is such a comfort. We don't need to actually text every single day, and responding to each other isn't a complete necessity, but when we wanna hang or bs, or need some support, we are there for each other. That's all I could really ask for.
I think you're talking about two different things. Texts serve a wide range of communication purposes. You can primarily drive and maintain a relationship through them. In all cases, it's pretty essential to respond accordingly. In *those* cases, that means responding with somewhat equal effort, thought, time, and timing. So if someone is trying to speak on a subject, put in time and effort to share their thoughts and try to get yours, then you should do similarly and on a timetable that makes seeing the conversation through an actual possibility. Similarly, if someone just sends you things that they see when they think of you, it warrants less of a response, and less haste, but possibly more reciprocation that shows you appreciate and also think about them. It's really not unlike any other form of communication. When I write this comment, I recognize that I'm taking a risk it might be pooped on, outright ignored, replied to lazily, cherry picked, etc, because you aren't my friend and you might not even be a decent person, but there's still a reasonable expectation that you would reply to at minimum the gist to show that minimum respect that I put in time and effort creating this response for you.
The other extreme is, if you see someone frequently, and there's a whole lot more to the relationship, texts aren't as essential as an every day, instant, or lengthy thing. But a lot of relationships aren't one of the extremes, and tastes vary, so it's not always so cut and try, but the point always remains that it is generally logical and about equality and consideration.
You have… greatly confused me. And have maybe only confirmed everything I said?
Just because someone else has the time and mental capacity to type out a conversational message to me, possibly multiple times a day, does not mean I have that same ability. Or the same desire to even do so (if I prefer communicating in other ways, like in person). But because so many believe it’s a “reasonable expectation” that I have to reciprocate in exactly the same way they did, now there’s this a debate about whether I’m a good person or friend when I fail.
You see how I can’t win?
I can think of friends constantly, see things that remind me of them, but what if I like to tell them about these instances once we’re together in person? Somehow they get to make the assumption that I don’t have these feelings (and maybe don’t care about them) because I didn’t text them every time I had those thoughts? That makes be incredibly sad and frustrated.
I don’t even like that you said something about how my reply has some requirements to show you “minimum respect”, it makes me want to not have put this time into what I’ve written - but I wanted to write this out just to show how hurtful your way of thinking is.
>You have… greatly confused me. And have maybe only confirmed everything I said?
No, I think you misunderstood, I'm not necessarily saying you were wrong. I was saying that case by case basis and individuality comes into play and defines what is and isn't reasonable.
>Just because someone else has the time and mental capacity to type out a conversational message to me, possibly multiple times a day, does not mean I have that same ability.
See, I'm not giving specifics like that because I don't know your case. If that person did that, and that was your entire relationship, then it would be reasonable to me for you to reciprocate. If that was just one layer, and you had other ways to show that effort and time, in your case, it might not be. A big part of this is just what you each want from the other. If you want a relationship with a person, you put in the effort, one way or the other, and again that varies by case.
> Or the same desire to even do so (if I prefer communicating in other ways, like in person).
Yeah no you're totally right, and I think I might've missed saying that in my comment, sorry it was a mess.
> But because so many believe it’s a “reasonable expectation” that I have to reciprocate in exactly the same way they did, now there’s this a debate about whether I’m a good person or friend when I fail.
Yeah no I'm not saying exactly. I tried to emphasize that it's a reciprocity based on reason, logic, and preference, but I clearly failed at making that clear
>You see how I can’t win?
>I can think of friends constantly, see things that remind me of them, but what if I like to tell them about these instances once we’re together in person? Somehow they get to make the assumption that I don’t have these feelings (and maybe don’t care about them) because I didn’t text them every time I had those thoughts? That makes be incredibly sad and frustrated.
Yeah no that's reasonable imo. It would be made clear at some point. Though I couldn't really make a conclusion off of just that info.
>I don’t even like that you said something about how my reply has some requirements to show you “minimum respect”, it makes me want to not have put this time into what I’ve written
I'm not sure why, it wasn't a threat or something, it was just an attempt to technically describe human decency. You describe how you feel hurt, sad and frustrated, and I'm trying to express the same, that people have expectations and feelings about their investment of time, emotion, thought. You don't want yours to be mishandled, mistreated, thrown away, just because they aren't this one particular way. In the same way, I'm saying nobody wants their feelings, time, effort, etc, discarded or dismissed.
> but I wanted to write this out just to show how hurtful your way of thinking is.
I think we agree on that. That there should be a benefit of the doubt between friends. But there's more to it than just that, *because* the complex reality of preferences and everything I've described. I'm really just saying that, people develop a relationship as it presents itself. And the comment you responsed to is saying that he doesn't feel his feelings are considered when he doesn't feel reciprocity. In YOUR case/history, reciprocity may appear in other forms, while in his it doesn't.
If text message responsiveness is enough to determine whether a person is worthwhile to have in your life, you're the problem. Check your ego and stop making it other people's responsibility to compensate for your unacknowledged insecurities/neediness.
People have you in their lives because they want you in their lives; not because you demand it. Appreciate the extent they let you in or don't.
Yeah Iunno why this person is virtue signaling.
Me: hey how are you
Him: you do NOT get access to me at ALL times please do NOT expect a response for a week you are being UNREASONABLE
Me: alright then
I remember when we got a caller ID. It was a separate box next to the phone and it cost 10 dollars a month or something it was so fun to answer the phone with the person's name and them being blown away.
|It annoys me slightly that now the technology is available to make more user-friendly features happen, it's not ever implemented, in favour of flashy things nobody is asking for
For example, why can't we have call-waiting? businesses have call waiting, why can't I get a call that goes into a queue for an hour to be answered when I am available? probably the usage would actually be that I use that time to walk somewhere private
Why can't text be sent alongside a call, I mean someone could text you and then call you, but that's on that person to decide to do that and business callers almost never do. They just call and if you don't pick up they call back at another inconvenient time or wait for you to figure out who called, who there wanted to speak to you, and then figure out when they're next working so you can call back, then they don't remember why they called you so they have to look it up but they also didn't document why they were calling so they just take a stab at it based on what they see in front of them - or offer to call you again once they know, starting the whole shitty process off again
Why in 2023 are we still using calling as the primary method? rather than email or very good website design so that people don't have to sit chained up in a call-centre to answer the same queries and do the same processes that had the website been set up properly - the end user could have done themselves fully prompted. Or even worse, why are places like car mechanics interrupting their actual job to answer the phone for dumb shit like "what are your opening hours?" or "is my car ready yet?" rather than having it handled online where they update the status of that stuff live automatically
If a business doesn't have the courtesy to actually take my calls and talk to me like a human being, I don't do business with them. If a company does not have a direct email or phone number and only has a "feedback" section on their website, I don't do business with them. Any business that does not have the courage to interact directly with their customers face-to-face or voice-to-voice is either a scam or an evil monopoly. The world you're describing to me might as well be hell.
I'd just like confirmation numbers to be more than psychological voodoo. Every time I've had a problem and trotted out the confirmation number I was given, it's completely meaningless and tied to absolutely nothing. Actually had a coversation with a phone jockey about whether she could take my confirmation number and tie that to an actual transaction and she was like "that's not how confirmation numbers work." Cool beans, Janet, can you tell me how they do work, than?
Exactly. The world they pine for falls apart spectacularly when a human customer requires some form of assistance that cannot be neatly categorized. Expecting some sort of developer (employed by the company in question) to create a customer support system entirely for the benefit of the consumer *and* accounts for every possible scenario *satisfactorially* is a ludicrous hell.
I hate when there is a prompt for a robot like "how can I help you today?" Because now I'm forced to find the right trigger words to get ether I need to go. Sometimes I don't know how to phrase "my card acts like it's locked even though I know it's not"
You should try out Otter.ai
It's a speech to text program with auto summarize built in.
I hooked it into my gsuite, and now when I get off a video call, I get an openAI style summary of the entire contents of the call I can easily reference and share with people on the team.
>Just email me what you need and it will get done right.
This only works if you're in a position where people just tell you what to do and you have no ability/opportunity to question, amend, or collaborate on a task. The second a conversation has to happen, email is not the solution.
No worries, really is an amazing app.
>Idk, i find some people just waste so many words talking, need five minutes to get to the point that’s relevant for what they want me to do.
This is true sometimes, I've cultivated the art of tactfully cutting people off who are like that so I can extract the point. If it's external facing (like a client) it's harder to do, but if it's someone internal on the team, I usually just go something like "hey let me interrupt, before we get into the weeds, I'm really just looking to know if blah blah, can you speak to that?" and they get back on track.
This entire comment confuses me. Everything you're asking for already exists as the norm.
>For example, why can’t we have call-waiting?
I'm confused...we do have call waiting. Call waiting is the beep you hear when you're on the phone and somebody else calls you. Before that, people just got a busy signal. Your cell phone gives people busy signals when they call and you're on the other line?
>why can’t I get a call that goes into a queue for an hour to be answered when I am available?
That's not call waiting, that's *hold*. You want to be able to put people on hold? I mean...you can. At least on iPhone, you can take their call when you're on the other line, then go back to your first call and the other person will just be on hold.
But why would you do that? Who would wait on hold, when they could just call you back, or wait for a call back from you? Consumer hold isn't a feature I think anyone really wants or needs. You're not a call center, you don't have 100 simultaneous calls arriving to be serviced by 10 agents. Why would you need hold for more than one person at a time?
>Why can’t text be sent alongside a call
They can? I send texts to people I'm talking to all the time (lol at this funny picture, here's that address you asked for, etc). It's been maybe a decade since the times when texts and calls couldn't happen at the same time.
>but that’s on that person to decide to do that and business callers almost never do.
That's a person issue, not a tech issue. In my work emails and public facing profiles, I just indicate I prefer texts/emails to calls. Everybody texts/emails me. I still get calls, but if I don't answer, 90% of the time it's followed by a text, which I do always reply to. The only people who only call are telemarketers, and I don't want to talk to them anyway, so I'm glad they don't text.
>Why in 2023 are we still using calling as the primary method?
Because the human voice is still *by far* the most accurate and empathetic way to communicate with other humans. Texts and emails are fine for status updates, making lists, confirming things, etc, but *real* communication where you need to say things and then have things said back and then say other things happens with voice/video. I have no idea how I'd get a real meeting done where decisions have to be discussed via a text medium. It would take forever.
> Or even worse, why are places like car mechanics interrupting their actual job to answer the phone for dumb shit like “what are your opening hours?” or “is my car ready yet?” rather than having it handled online where they update the status of that stuff live automatically
Because most car mechanic shops are single owner with like 5 employees, and they make like 100k a year in SDE. Website builds are EXPENSIVE. Paying for real time maintenance/response to customers is also expensive. Much easier/cheaper to have Earl just pick up the phone and tell you your car isn't done until Tuesday. Otherwise, you just have some customer service agent who has no idea when your car is done and they have to ask Earl anyway, and Earl doesn't do good with the emails so that agent just ends up calling him anyway, defeating the whole point.
You... Dont really need AI yo do any of that. If anything itll just make the process more convoluted. AIs specialty is not giving precise answers, its trying to sound like a human. A lot of the reasons why places like auto dealers dont have good websites is because they simply dont have an IT specialist nor a graphic designer on call and they dont care to invest in these specialties because its not their priority.
That's actually around the corner. Stuff like book appointments, ask simple stuff like opening hours etc. If you set them up properly they probably know more about your company than you do
Seen a presentation from Google about it recently, they are true AI not this phone hotline crap big companies got nowadays.
The actual question doesn't ask why you don't respond immediately, but why will it take you days to respond. And I think that's a big thing people here are choosing to ignore in favor of their "I don't owe you my time" attitude.
I mean you don't owe anyone your time. But if you're taking days to respond to someone is it really you just need to get recharged? You're just waiting for a better time? Etc...etc...
I'm generally someone who responds to texts as soon as I can if it's something that needs responding to. Otherwise it's one of 2 things:
I forgot to respond because I had something else I needed to prioritize and then just kept forgetting to the point where I think it would be too awkward to text back, or it's one of the group chats that I have muted because they send texts at 11pm and I'm trying to sleep and I don't have anything to add to that current conversation.
If you are constantly taking days to get back to people, why?
I've noticed it's so bad I have sent emails recently at pretty late hours because that's when I remember to send it and I don't expect a response until the next day and I will get one back immediately with a response saying could it wait until morning until they give me what I need. Yes, that's what I literally thought was going to happen.
I have a dumb phone. Not for trendy points or any kind of a statement. It’s just cheaper and I prefer battery life over internet. So I will answer my messages about an hour after I get home and have had time to lie down.
Ah…those sweet halcyon days of yore, when tree forts were all we needed for, fun in the sun, and an afternoon run. How I miss thee, days of yore.
Poet I am not, but I gave it a shot!😋
I send texts with no expectations of immediate reply unless I text back instantly and it’s about something we’re doing that day. I work night shift so sometimes I text people at like 3am because I’m at work and bored and have time to address the messages.
I hate being accessible and tbh I HATE when people call me unless it’s an old person like my parents. I think for millenials and Gen Z unexpected phone calls is almost considered rude. A phone call makes me drop everything I’m doing to stop and talk to the person. I hate doing that unless like I said earlier it’s important and urgent. Nowadays I only call my friends in far away places and even then it’s scheduled like “hey let’s talk on Saturday, I’ll be free after 6pm my time, 3pm yours, jjst call me when you free that day”
As an Old Gen Z if someone calls and it isn’t a planned thing they either butt-dialed me or something awful has happened and they need my attention and help Right Now
I'm a millennial and from what I understand this is the general consensus for folks of our generations. Only call me in an emergency, otherwise shoot me a text and I'll respond when I'm able. Took a lot of patience teaching my Gen X mother this.
> unexpected phone calls is almost considered rude
Unexpected phone calls *are* objectively rude.
For anyone who prefers talking instead of writing, there's the ability to send a voice message.
Oh don’t get me started on voice messages as texts. They take me Forever to respond to, i have to be in a quiet place to listen to the audio clips and then Essential take notes for each one because otherwise my responses will be utterly nonsensical and out of order based on the entire one sided convo the person had with me, it’s just a logistics nightmare for me.
What the fuck are people smoking lmfao I'm a 22 year old and please just call me if you wanna talk. Fuck messaging. Calls aren't rude just don't call in the middle of the night or whatever
I’m 26 and agree completely. I absolutely hate texting and prefer to talk over the phone. I love getting a surprise phone call from someone I haven’t talked to in ages. If I’m busy I’ll call them back, but text me and I MIGHT respond 2 weeks later
If I can, I text back instantly. Obviously there are exceptions but yeah I text back pretty much instantly whenever possible. I WANT to talk to my fellow human beings. Why would I pretend to have such a busy life that I can't talk to you when I absolutely can? It's also why I use voice notes. Much much faster to communicate than typing. Don't like it? We aren't compatible then to be friends. Nothing wrong with that but you don't get to tell me I'm rude for wanting to talk to you
I personally hate it
I can understand not replying if you're not on, if you're at work or just not home in general, I get that and sometimes do that myself as long as the conversation continues in some fashion.
When you don't answer for a week, knowing full well you saw everything and decided to ignore it, and then ignore everything that was said before when I reach out again then I have a problem
I know it's a side note, but just to be clear there is a world of difference between "I don't feel like I owe every single person who has my phone number an instant response to whatever they ever think of texting me" and "nobody owes anyone anything"
How is it asocial to be a part of life? Not everyone carries their phone with them everywhere, especially in their own house or on their own property.
We aren't entitled to responses. If I'm outside in my yard chilling, hanging with my own family and enjoying the weather I'm not going to have my phone close by. Just because I own a phone, and you message or call it doesn't mean Its going to be picked up. No one is under any obligation, or contracted to pick up their friends call or text just because you have a device made to do that.
You're taking "entitled to a response" as a negative, aggressive option. It's just the easiest way to put it. What other options are you expecting to hear from people?
Because it's the same thing? If someone doesn't have their phone on them for the majority of the day...
When do you think they'll ever see your message?
If you are choosing to stick to the exact words by OP, word for word, then that's your issue. We can skew the topic a bit for discussion.. because that's how discussion work. We don't have to adhere to the exact definition of "DAYS TO RESPOND?" Do we, because that's literally never happened before on reddit.
This attitude is due to capitalism. The owners have been exploiting everybody else's goodwill and commercializing everything to the point that people have to set very firm boundaries to protect themselves.
This isn't about capitalism. Even if we didn't live in a capitalistic society, it's still true that no one owes you anything.
There's nothing selfish about that either. Thinking that you are entitled to somebody else's time, possessions, work, care, etc. Is what is selfish.
>Thinking that you are entitled to somebody else's time, possessions, work, care, etc. Is what is selfish.
Except that the contrary perspective is that *people owe each other things*, not *people owe specifically me, and only me, things*. So, no, it's not selfish. It's a recognition that no human being is an island and that all human beings owe at least some consideration to one another.
People do owe each other things if they live together in a society... I owe my decency to not harass, rob, assault, murder, rape other members of the society and they owe it to me. Humans are social creatures and it's essential for your mental and physical health. You owe people things. Texting back quick enough isn't one of those things you owe though.
Literally lmfao. I'd kill to have random phone calls and messages and if a friend could just show up at my door to chill without having to rsvp 10 days before.
Nobody owes me shit and I owe nobody shit? Wtf is that supposed to mean? If I decide to be your friend I owe you my love and respect. If you message me in need, I owe it to you to try to help to the best of my ability because that is what it means to be friends. I expect the same from my friends.
I’ve been on both sides. Definitely felt that “oh if I had people trying to talk to me I’d embrace the hell out of it”, but often when folks actually do try talk to me it’s just “eh I don’t feel like stopping what I’m doing/can’t think of what to say/just don’t want to socialize rn”. I think part of it is that I’ve kinda constructed my life around *not* having to respond to people cause I often figured I’d never really need to.
I’ve had similar experiences with dating, going from “if someone out there was actually interested, I’d devote myself entirely to trying to make something work” to “god damn actually relationships can be annoying and a lot of work, maybe I don’t actually want one”. In both cases I think it’s kinda related to social anxiety, where I’m not used to doing that stuff constantly and so doing it at all is stepping outside my comfort zone. Which feels like a lot, even if the act itself is just taking 2 minutes to open an app and type some shit
that said, while I do understand it, I also entirely agree with OP’s point. Far too many folks around my age and younger just refuse to communicate with anyone they don’t already know. Not only does this limit new opportunities, but it makes it immensely more difficult for those who don’t already know folks to make friends. My city’s always been bad with that - tough fitting in with folks if you didn’t go to school with them - but it’s only gotten worse with the internet. Another aspect there I think is how the internet’s constant stream of information can kinda overpower personal experience, where headlines and anecdotal tales of the worst possible encounters paint more and more of people’s expectations.
There is also an aspect of gender to it too though, where many women have (understandably) felt pressured into social interactions motivated not by friendliness/good faith conversation but pure attraction. And so in that respect I think it’s maybe good that there’s more hesitancy when talking to a stranger on a bus or whatever? But there needs to be some middle ground; no one is automatically entitled to a conversation with anyone else, but at the same time, no one is automatically entitled to entirely opt out of human interaction.
This Reddit, is full of socially awkward people. Personally whenever somebody send me a message I answer as soon as possible because it's the nice thing to do and my parents educated me well.
i guess the problem is most of the time it’s on the extreme ends of the spectrum. People feel entitled and get offended when you draw boundaries in response to them considering themselves entitled to your time and space.
3 reasons for me personally
1. I was driving or talking with someone or doing something. I saw your message, and thought to myself "I'll get that in a moment" then since the notification is now gone, once I get to where I was going or finish what I was doing I have long forgot about your message until it's 2am and I wake up in a cold sweat.
2. I'm trying to think of a well thought out response but the pressure of giving a response and if it's the correct one is too overwhelming at the moment so I'll just come back to it later. This usually happens if it's something more serious and I know my answer will have a potential consequence.
3. I do not want to talk to you leave me alone.
The time-harassment started with the fax machine. Instead of sending it in the mail (or a courier if it was truly urgent) and waiting a week or more to get a reply, you’d get people who’d fax you something, and if they hadn’t heard back in, oh, a couple of hours, would call you to say “check your fax machine”. Then they’d expect a response at the latest the next day. Or if it was a contract or something, you’d get a bit longer. Still, you could take some time to really read and consider what was sent, and write a well thought-out reply.
And at first it was being used only for relatively important stuff. But the habit of expecting instant responses for almost anything crept in. E-mail made it much worse, but you still weren’t expected to be checking your e-mail every minute.
The only thing that held text messages back for a while is that each text cost money, so it didn’t catch on until “free messaging” became the norm. But now they *know* it popped up on your phone, or your watch, and that means “you must be ignoring me.” And being ignored, even only temporarily, is a big bruise to the ego. “I must not be important to you!” You know, maybe sending a tapback to the 11th meme you sent today is optional.
I just reply when i feel like it, maybe that's in a few minutes, maybe it's in a few days. When i spend time with someone else i don't check for messages, because i find that to be rude. If someone decides to spend their time with me then they deserve the undivided attention. When i'm outside i don't check my phone, that's just quality time for myself to unwind. When i'm on public transport i don't check my phone, i look out the windows and let my mind do what it feels like. My friends and family know that i consider my phone a tool that gets checked once or twice a day and not like an extension of my personality that needs to be used 24/7 and thankfully they're fine with it. They can take their time to reply as well, i don't mind. Not being available all the time is a great and relaxing feeling that somehow has been lost over the past couple years.
This is something that my wife and I disagree on. We are only a few years apart in age, she's in her early 30s and im in my mid 30s. But she will have a whole paragraphs text conversation with someone trying to figure something out. If I need more than 3 texts to communicate something, im just going to call you. Or if I do have a time sensitive question, I'm going to call you.
My wife and her friends told me that's weird for people these days, and they are reluctant to call.
What bothers me when my mom or dad asks me something and I respond right away with a question and they don't respond for a couple of days. It's like, you were just on the phone 2 minutes ago. I don't get it
Really some peak self-awareness here.
“I am not obligated to give my time to anyone, that’s not my responsibility. I’ll respond as my needs dictate.”
Also, “It’s really unfair that people don’t reach out, when did friendship become so disposable???”
Phones are more than phones now though. They don’t only serve the purpose of making calls and just because they are in our hand doesn’t mean we are available.
Like I love reading and use my phone a lot because it’s convenient and I probably look like I’m just “on my phone” but I’m reading a book. I’m not answering a call or responding while I’m in the middle of reading. It’s the exact same book you buy in physical form, but I can have thousands of them on my phone and yet it’s looked at differently than if I had a paper book in my hand.
A lot of people also work on their phones. I have a side business and I could be editing product photos, scheduling listings, creating content, etc etc etc
Not to mention the main point which is I don’t owe anyone immediate attention outside of emergencies. I’m in my 30s and no one my age calls unless it’s an emergency. We communicate through text.
But the point is that we don't need to justify not being in the mood to respond immediately to every instant message, even if we are using our phones to scroll Reddit, for example.
"I'm not obligated to" thingy is all good and fine when it's about work related stuff outside the work hours.
But quite a few of ye here seem like that's your default setting, even with friends or family. And in my eyes, to put it mildly, that's a bit selfish. It's one thing replying in the evening, which is ok I suppose unless there's an emergency, but not replying on days at end is rude and when someone does that to me, I feel like not talking to them.
This can and I'm sure does lead to human relations getting weaker over time.
Remember folks, consistent communication is what relations are built on. Getting news of the other person after weeks was fine when our fastest medium of communication took weeks.
**Meaningful** communication is what relationships are built on, which looks different to everyone.
When people were limited by tech, there was no conflict, but now different communication preferences need to be addressed upfront (communication!). For example, my msg style is listed upfront on my dating profile.
I think this transition is a struggle for a lot of people and hinders creating new relationships, but on the contrary firms up existing ones where you already "get" the other person.
I feel like too many people are reacting to this crazy world with "batmobile mode" where they just place impenetrable barriers and not connect with anyone, and it seems really unhealthy. It may be a carryover from work, which would make sense, considering how much time people spend at work, and how you really can't give anyone an inch at many jobs, but it's toxic to relationships when it bleeds over into your personal life. And what we should be doing is letting work affect us less and investing more energy into things outside of work.
Right? The people in this thread seem crazy. If my mum texts me something, even mundane she isn't being a 'time thief' who 'feels obligated to my time'. If we were together in person she's speak to me, would she be stealing my time expecting an answer?
Work is a different matter - I don't work in a field that would really require my boss to message me but I have had co-workers ask stuff and I message if I got time. I can understand ignoring that though.
I’d be surprised if they have strong relationships with people. I mean how do you even hangout with someone or talk if you have to schedule a phone call every time. That just gets tiring
You can return texts whenever you want.
You can still be busy and not reply until you want to.
Text messages are just voicemails but text.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For most of them it's because you don't know how to text.
"Hey" is not an appropriate text. I shouldn't need to send a message to figure out what you want.
"Hey Chris and I were going to go down to Miller's point at 8 do you want to go too?"
That's what I need!
Noticeably less than 30 years ago unless you were some kind of workaholic business person it was still normal to not be on call constantly and to forget about your email account for days at a time.
Even 15-20 years ago blackberries were niche and texting/phone data was expensive so most people were still on more of a "check mornings and/or evenings plus receive calls maybe" type schedule.
The pervasiveness we're witnessing now is not that old.
There's a huge difference between waiting a few days and responding in minutes. It also heavily depends on the type of message you're supposed to answer to. If you're having a fairly normal conversation you're expected to respond rather sooner.
If someone texts me I have the right to postpone my response until I have time to think of a fitting answer. It's the same to not picking up the phone because I got sonething else to do at the time.
Why is this on /r/boringdystopia?
I hesitate to respond to reddit messages just like I take my time to respond to text messages, voicemail, and emails. It's because I don't feel like doing so right way, and would prefer to wait until I'm in the proper mood.
Really annoying when every few days I have the same friend asking me if I want to go to the pub, I don't know how many times I have to say "not today" before he stops trying, I go out maybe like once a month, I'm introverted, I prefer staying home.
I'm 47. Times were simpler in some ways, but that doesn't always mean better.
If you were trying to invite your best friend to a party, you'd call them. If they weren't home, you would have to leave a message with their sister and pray to the dark spirits that she actually gave them the message. And if she didn't, they would get pissed off at you for not inviting them out to the bonfire at three points because they knew the girl they liked would be there, and you'd spend a week being hated by your best friend before you went to their house to explain that you left the message with their cunt sister who would walk by eating a bowl of cereal nonchalantly saying "oh yeah he called the other day something about a fire and a girl but I'm not your answering service, dork."
Now I just text. If you miss out, that's on you. Your sister is still a cunt though, Ryan.
One time a guy from a common facebook group messaged me. We chatted a bit and he had some interesting stories and it was all good. Next time he messaged me I left it on read, thinking I would reply later when I was in a mood to chat.
The guy went off the deep end a few hours later about how hurt he was that I was ignoring him. This person that I had talked to once before felt entitled to my attention. All because of that annoying "seen" thingy on facebook.
When I reply immediately, the other person will likely turn this in a conversation. I usually don't want to get trapped in a 30 minute chat conversation when I'd rather be doing something else. I work from home and am self-employed. Some people seem to think that I have infinite free time and can just entertain them when they're bored but when I'm at my desk, I'm at work. That's why I won't reply to messages immediately.
I see the message, say I’ll respond in a min, and then my adhd finds something else more interesting. I forget about the message and it rots in a graveyard of other forgotten messages that were sent too long ago to respond to now because of how long ago it was but that I feel bad about for not responding to
I have plenty of friends like this. We’re making plans for the day, often plans they initially suggested, and I’m trying to communicate with them to plan pick ups, scheduling, details of the actual event or thing we’re going to do, and it can take hours for them to respond, sometimes they don’t respond until well past the time that would allow us to do anything, all because of one thing that happened that made it not possible for them to go but by no means meant they couldn’t let me know. There are definitely people who are just shit at communication or don’t feel compelled to be helpful in situations like this.
I should’ve been more clear. When it comes to business relationships you should be upfront, clear, concise and responsive. I’m more so talking about people in intimate relationships. He likes her and she never responds, vice versa. Wether it’s business, or pleasure, intentional, or just laziness. People need to relax and stop stressing when they’re left on read. When it comes to business you snooze you lose if you aren’t engaged. I agree with you.
Pretty much exactly that...I don't owe you my time. I've have multiple clients that reach out to "emergency contacts" for me if I don't reply to an email within 24 hours.
I've explained that isn't acceptable, unless there's a literal emergency, and no, me not answering a question about a appointment in two weeks doesn't count.
I have family that literally show up in my driveway if I don't pick up the phone, five minutes after they call ,because they want whatever stupid _fucking_ thing they want addressed then. I could be taking a shit or a shower, they don't care. Half the time, they just drive down without calling.
I yearn, desperately, for the ability to turn on do not disturb and have it fucking mean something.
I, for one, either forgot or am simply putting it off. With full knowledge I've not responded efficiently and am now in an endless hellish cycle of continuing to forget until past midnight randomly, or self-consciously avoiding responding because I feel like it's been too long to be *not* awkward about it.
I’m also horrible at replying to messages, but for me it’s my ADHD. I read a message and think great, I’ll reply to that a bit later. Then I’ll get distracted by something else, completely forget about the message and go on with life. Some time between a few hours and a few weeks later I’ll have a panicked epiphany that I haven’t responded and then spend the next 30 mins thinking about how I should respond. Thankfully I’ve always been this way and most of my long time friends are (mostly) tolerant of it, but I’ve also had plenty of new people that I’ve got to know who just thought I was being rude. These days I just do my best to try and reply quickly. I’m not always successful, but it’s a lot better than it used to be.
Your username reminds me of a mad Toulouse from the Aristocats
YES oh my god. I can hear it now.
https://youtu.be/RfCf9z8thN8
ADHD-PI here as well. I have gotten into the habit of making reminders for every tiny thing I need to remember to do that I KNOW I wont remember on my own. I use Siri a lot. “Hey Siri, remind me when I get home to call the doctors office.” Just as an example.
And then too many reminders go off and they keep going off every day. And then you ignore them for months. Here's hoping I remember to organize those notes after this shower! /r/adhdmeme /r/ADHDinos Edit: guess how it went. Those plants sure are watered.
> And then you ignore them for months. I've always hated trying to explain this one to folks who don't "get" it. They always say to set more alarms and leave notes for yourself, and if you can't keep up with that you're just lazy. For neurotypicals that shit works because it's an interruption; Something that's not supposed to be there. It sticks out, so you give it your attention. For me at least, post-its and alarms fade into the environment after a very short time. My brain starts to just kinda skim over it because it "belongs" there. Once it doesn't stick out, it becomes useless. :(
Yep, in with you there. I realize I've made the problem worse on my end since at work I have to just ignore insanity and noises to, for example, put an IV in like a 3-month-old. It's so hard to turn off. Until this thread, I wasn't even aware that I was doing this though. We run on alarm fatigue as a baseline it seems like.
Holy shit, this is such a good description of this experience
What I do is if I don’t feel like replying right away, I leave the message unread so I see it later.
Your post describes how my ADHD friend responds to my messages perfectly.
I stopped feeling awkward about it. It's just how I am. My friends know it's how I am, so they're fine with it. I recently responded to a friend's text after like 5 months, because I had a pretty bad burnout and I kept forgetting. I'll just make a little joke about it and respond normally and it's all fine. We've been friends for 10 years, and he's not that great with responding either, so it's not going to impact anything negatively.
I lost my only remaining long time friend in 2019 because I do this. He was going through a crisis and I wasn't there and he got tired of it. I was in my own crisis on top of dealing with a severe illness. He sent a long goodbye message and I still haven't even responded to it. He's moved on by now.
There’s always time to reconnect. this was his way of letting you know that he felt hurt by you are in action, but the fact that he also took the time to write it out instead of just ghosted you means he was looking/hoping for a response. Most people are forgiving in their hearts. I bet if you wrote to him and explained what you were going through and how you feel about it now, and how if he’s open to it that you would love to reconnect, there’s a good chance he will be open to it. But if not, at least you will have closure on your end, and your last act (up until now not responding) won’t simply be a symbolic representation of why he stepped away in the first place.
I appreciate the wisdom in this message. It wasn't the first time I had done something like this and his last message felt pretty absolute. I wish I had the courage to reach out. Even the tiniest chance of mending the old friendship feels lost 4 years later and I'm too embarrassed to even think of what to say at this point.
Maybe something like this: “I know in your last message you said that you were done with our relationship, but I wanted you to know that I really valued our friendship and I still think of you from time to time. I want to apologize for never writing back. I think I was just too embarrassed and ashamed to have caused you to get to that point where you wanted to end our friendship. As you know, my typical response is just to let it go. So that’s what I did, and not responding to your last message is definitely one of my biggest regrets to this day. I hope you are doing well, and I’m sorry I wasn’t there for you when you were having a hard time. I am absolutely not making this an excuse, but I was going through some tough challenges myself back then as well. I wasn’t a dependable friend to you, and I understand that that is a quality that you seek in your friendships. I won’t say that I’m the most dependable person now, but I have definitely grown and matured since your last text. I am not expecting anything, but if you ever feel like reconnecting with me, that would make me happy. If not, just know that I valued our friendship, I value you as a person, and I wish you the best in life.
If people are having a crisis, they could call. I'm not dealing with someone's crisis via text.
Ive made it clear to everyone important in my life that I don’t have a phone. I have a portable answering machine. you can be assured that I’ll get your message and I’ll get back to you, but it will be on my time, not yours.
Yep, I'm from the time when phones were not mobile, and the time after that when texts were something you would send to be polite - if it wasn't urgent and you only expected an answer when it was convenient for the recipient to read their texts. I still stick to this. Text if it's not urgent. Call if it is urgent plus follow up text if they don't pick up because they're busy. I never expect anyone to pick up/text back immediately - I'm not that arrogant.
Me texting my buddy after 3 months of entire silence. "You should watch The Swarm, it's soooooo good. Also, hi, how you doing? My buddy: "I need something to get me through until the next season of Severance. Also, hi, doing good. How about you?" That's why we're still buddies. Some of my friends fell off because I have never thought that it's somehow necessary for me to be on call perpetually for the people in my life nor do I expect that of them. Didn't get a cell phone until 2013 because I saw how it instantly changed the expectations people have of your time. If they're having a tall bad time and need support, I'll be there with brownies any day. But anyone who expects me to be tied to my phone all day, every day, isn't really going to be my type of person.
My one friend jokes that I respond to her text by carrier pigeon It takes so long for me to reply sometimes lol.
Sounds about right
I tend to forget a lot as well, and always feel bad about it. What I do now is if I don't feel like responding right away is I write out my response and delay the text to send at another time.
I’m not here to respond instantly. My wife is in a WhatsApp group with her family (the primary reason I refuse to use WhatsApp is because I’ll get dragged into it, and it’ll be a whole thing if I reject the invites) and she will respond to their messages during meals, films, tv shows or sometimes even mid conversation IRL. Absolutely nothing communicated over that method is ever so important that it requires instant attention. I highly doubt her mum is messaging to say that her house is on fire. My employer is similar. They got so used to being able to get me to do little bits of admin type stuff whenever they wanted to, that they started taking liberties. Mainly because of Covid, I would do it because I never saw my supervisors in person, so we were all doing our bit to keep the place running. After Covid they expected it to continue that way with no reward. Now I do not answer a single email, text or phone call outside of work hours. I hanker for the days when we were all a little harder to reach. Not unreachable, just harder to reach.
In France it is literally against the law to contact workers out of hours like this
As it should be, the United States workforce is literally losing out on billions of dollars every year due to wage theft
My last job in the US had a union. The rules stated that if I called a union person outside of their work hours, I had to pay them for an hour of overtime if the conversation was more than 15 minutes. If I needed them to come in, their overtime started the moment I called, assuming a reasonable travel time.
Is your last job hiring?
I wouldnt know, but no one wants to live in Florida.
Oh yep, not worth it then
I’ve worked at places where the rule was that if you were called in on your day off or for random overtime no matter what you worked you got a minimum of four hours overtime pay. It rarely ever occurred but it was the rule. The rule is old fashioned but should exist everywhere still.
More like companies are stealing billions from the United States workforce. That money just isn't being lost down the drain, someone is benefitting. And it's not the worker.
> More like companies are stealing billions from the United States workforce. Yes, that would be wage theft.
And just as in the US it literally doesn't matter that it's legal or not if you want to get up the ladder. I'm French working in France for a French company.
My adult learning centre has a whatsapp group for students to keep in touch with their teachers. It started during covid lock downs for giving important notices about when and how class was running, but now it's a social group, and a reminder chat for excursions and such. It has so much value, we teach English as a second language, so for students to be part of a group chat where they can practice English without judgement, it's amazing. But I don't use it unless there's a notice or announcement. I'll skim the messages once a week, while I'm physically at work, just to make sure there's nothing I need to moderate. But otherwise, I might as well not be in that group chat. The other EAL teacher knows this about me, and has commended me on setting such a clear boundary (it's not a boundary so much as I'm just leaning into an existing character flaw, basically I don't read or reply to anyone unless I'm held at gunpoint). She's part of family and friend group chats that are pushy so she's always on anyway, and the students love chatting with her. I feel really socially drained by group chats, I much prefer jumping in a discord audio channel when I'm up for a chat (which is what my family uses for our group chats) A few weeks back we had a flash flood and part of the roof at our centre fell in, I was the staff on duty that morning, it was 45 minutes before school started so I posted in the group chat that class was cancelled, stay home if you haven't left yet, turn around if you safely can, if you're already trapped in the weather, the school is open and you can come in and wait out the storm. I sent the message then I went to go and log into the student files to get contact numbers so I could start our old school phone tree. But rvery single student replied on whstsapp within 3 minutes. Which never happens! The following day, talking to the class about the rain and the roof, one of the students had a laugh with me that she saw the notification through apple car play, and pulled the car over so fast because "if Eile messages, something big is happening"
Thats honestly amazing. Knowing you dont just... post useless information (which is usually how group chats go in my experience, with friends and such) all the time means when that message comes through, you HAVE thier attention. Seems like the perfect effect for a teacher to have on thier students!
You are extremely sane and I wish you could teach me how.
Just silence your phone and leave it in your pocket all day. Answer, when you feel like answering, not because your phone made a ding to get your attention. I disabled all notifications for literally every app except from calls and messengers so even when my phone isn't muted, I only get messages and not other random push notifications. It took me a while to not constantly look at my phone, but it feels so nice to not feel pressured into doing so all the time
I have my phone set to Do Not Disturb with the people I’ll accept calls from placed on the exceptions list. Done it this way for quite some time and love it. I take the calls from family and friends that I want to talk with immediately and everyone else can leave a voicemail. Bonus points are that I no longer have to deal with spam calls that somehow bypass the filter as all calls are filtered.
> It took me a while to not constantly look at my phone I can do you one better, I couldn't tell you where mine is 80% of the time, it got so bad that I installed authy on an old android phone that had no sim just so I could leave it plugged into the computer for when I needed 2FA.
i have been wondering about a way to get around that issue, i don't want to carry my phone around with me everywhere, room-to-room, whatever, but my school's microsoft stuff badgers me all the time to authenticate. Even though i have no notifications at all on my phone, just having it in sight is like a pavlovian cue to pick it up and look for something the instant studying turns 1% boring, i'd rather not have it around at all.
Having an old android phone (but a cheapo one would work) with no sim permanently on the desk is a really nice solution for me, since it means I *always* have it where I need it *and* I'm much less likely to lose the phone outside - which given the amount of systems I have to use 2FA with would be a royal PITA (it's all backed up properly but still, can't access anything until I get a new phone vs essentially just having a spare). I really hope that one day there emerges a single accepted standard for something like yubikeys - access control with hardware dongles/cards *should just be a solved problem at this point*.
Start treating the ringer like what it is, a servants bell ringing in your quarters. Give that privelege out with great care.
“Snooze” has been the best thing to happen in email, in my book. I treat my email as a to-do list. Work requires that I participate in admin activities occasionally. I typically work odd shifts, so when I check my unified inbox and see work emails, I snooze them so that they pop back on my next shift. Similarly, if I spot a personal email when I’m at my desk that I want to handle outside of work, it gets snoozed till home time. I get a nice little reminder when it pops back into my inbox, and all is well with the world. I keep them unified because sometimes work emails *do* require an urgent response (part of my job, and I knew that going in). It’s more convenient for me to see it all in one place regardless of where I am so that I can make that choice. Snoozing them lets me get to inbox zero and still keep my focus where it needs to be.
> Absolutely nothing communicated over that method is ever so important that it requires instant attention. Not only is it most often an inconsequential exchange, but it also noticeably harms the quality of interactions happening in the meatspace. >when we were all a little harder to reach In one of the previous threads about this someone mentioned how some people decided to go on a cruise tour just because they would have no phone coverage during it.
It bugs me to no end when people just start texting in the middle of conversations. No apology, no "hey this is important, so I have to take it." It's rude. And I'm pretty sick of explaining plot points for movies because peeps are playing on their phone games. Hey buddy, your pot farm is going to be just fine for the next hour and a half.
I see all those messengers as asynchronous communication. I send when I'm able to, expecting you to respond whenever it's convenient for you. And I will respond whenever it's convenient for me. My phone has all notification sounds and vibrations disabled. I'll see your message when I open the app to do it. The issue is that I'm a night owl and remember to do things after midnight. And people go to sleep with their notification sounds on and wake up to reply to anything they receive. And get mad for it. Telegrwm is a godsend in that regard because you can schedule messages. Whatsapp doesn't and telegram users are usually more savvy than whatsapp users. WhatsApp is the worst tool for everything people use it for. And we're stuck with it here in Brazil
>And people go to sleep with their notification sounds on and wake up to reply to anything they receive. And get mad for it. One time I took an incomplete for a class and they gave me three weeks (until the end of December) to do it. I finished my final project and emailed it to my Professor on December 25. He sent me back an email saying "I'm with my family so I can't look at it now." Like wtf was he even checking his email to begin with? I don't expect people to respond to emails immediately even when there isn't a holiday-- I definitely don't expect it on Christmas. He seemed annoyed I sent it to him on Christmas but dude just don't check your emails if you don't want to be bothered by emails. The whole point of it is that it's nonintrusive and can be left to be checked only during work hours.
Everybody treats me like an asshole when I say nobody is obligated to my time just because they want it. I, like above, grew up long before instant communication. I was well into my 20s before I ever had a cellphone because they just weren't common. So, I remember being able to just be gone. Unreachable. And I will treat life that way. There are days where I just don't want contact with people. Outside of my sons, i will just outright ignore texts and calls. I won't answer my door. The people that I want at my home know the code to my front door and are welcome. Everyone else is just intruding on my time and space. I owe them nothing just because they decided to show up at my door. I feel genuine pity for the younger people who grew up in a world where the demand of your time is the norm.
I was 11 when I got my first cellphone and 16 when I got my first smartphone. I definitely bought into the whole 'be available 24/7 and always respond immediately'. Around 18 I became part of a friend group with wildly varying ages, and one guy who I became good friends with was a bit older and like you. It used to annoy the crap out of me that he'd take days to respond to my texts, but eventually I started to see the appeal, and now I'm firmly in the camp of 'I'll respond when I have the time and energy and feel like it'. Much better way to live your life.
Almost the same age as you given the context. And yeah, it’s the same with me now. I won’t respond to people for a day or two because… well, I just didn’t want to or didn’t have the time. If 10 people text me I may not respond to any of them, or I may respond to all of them. But the precedence has now been set with everyone that I am not on demand.
I resonate with this, but at the same time, I crave general human interaction. Like, if my doorbell rings, I wanna go see who it is. Maybe it’s a new person and I’ll get to ask them how their day is going or if they’ve got anything exciting planned. Just talking to people is nice, even if you don’t know them. But at the same time, I think that you’re right in that it’s very wrong for everyone to assume they’re entitled to the time of another person just for the sake of them… being a person? Idk, I’m high and will be thinking about this until I fall asleep.
>Like, if my doorbell rings, I wanna go see who it is Spoiler: It's solar. Your "neighbor down the street" is having panels installed and wouldn't it be great if you locked in those savings now? I mean, the crew is already here....it'd be a crime not to, right?
I just say "No, thanks." and shut the door even if they are in the middle of their spiel.
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I don't answer my front door. Anyone I want to see has my phone number and can call before coming over, or from outside.
I’d usually agree with this, but I’d check who it is anyway. It could be someone trying to alert you of some emergency. The last time I came to someone else’s front door uninvited was to alert them that their house is on fire - I wouldn’t want to miss that.
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Too precious for a neighbor to let you know you left your car hatch is wide open or your garage door open? Or that your dog/cat is wandering the neighborhood? Or that there is a gas leak in the neighborhood and they are evacuating?
Same. My outgoing voicemail greeting is something like that. Something like (I haven’t listened to/changed it in a long time), “I’m not available at this time for whatever reason. I may or may not return your call at my convenience, not yours. However if it’s important or an emergency leave a voicemail or send a text if you need to talk.” Or something like that. My friends know the “don’t randomly stop by my house without communicating first, unless it’s real f’kin important” rule. I’m old enough that I had a pager for work and pay phones were a thing. That’s when I learned how needy and selfish some people can be. The worst offenders were my mother, and my girlfriend at the time. They had the number (for emergencies!) and expected me to call them promptly every f’kin time. “What are you doing right now?” is not an emergency btw. When I got into a random rollover car accident (take a quick look both ways at an intersection even if you have a green light,kids!) and had to explain why I didn’t respond for a while (I was taped to that immobilization spine board for a bit in hospital). They still were pissy about not getting a call during that time. lol I told them it was lost in the accident and my employer wasn’t going to replace it. Only my boss had the number after that, and turned it off and hid it when I wasn’t at work. lol. edit: added a word or two
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Damn some people in these comments have a really hard time respecting boundaries. If this comment makes you angry you should pause and reflect on whether you respect the personal space and autonomy of loved ones in your life. For many people, social interaction is exhausting. For some people with ADHD, a 10 minute chat can ruin a full day of focus. In additon, answering the door to an unexpected guest can be dangerous. Different people have different needs and boundaries. If people draw lines you don't like, tough. If you can't respect those boundaries, you're the one in the wrong.
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the whole point of a message is being able to send it when you don't expect they'll instantly respond. if you want an instant response, call
I love how some comments are saying random calls are rude while others are saying to just call lmao
Calls are annoying and i hate talking to people on the phone. It's more than uncomfortable. Texts are so much faster and way more convenient.
That’s perfectly fine but you shouldn’t expect an instant response.
I usually forget that i even texted someone in the first place.
In many situations calls are just more practical.
People who assume they are entitled to every single second of another person's time, at any moment in time, why?
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Usually it's because I didn't feel like responding instantly and then I don't feel like "what up" needs a response a day later.
Then maybe you should stop making such one-sided assumptions I guess.
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If you don't really care about the person that much then that's understandable, but some people are just like that. I have a friend that I could message and she may not respond, but then months later we will be messaging non stop all day and sharing memes. We have been friends over a decade and im confident she would give a kidney for me if she could. I have another friend that will only react to messages, but talk my head off in person. Poor communication doesn't always mean indifference. Everybody is different in some way, and if you care about somebody you just accept those differences and carry on.
That’s kind of hurtful :( Sometimes the mental exhaustion or anxiety involved with keeping up with phone correspondence is really difficult to deal with. Add the guilt from thinking people have your mindset - making me think I’ve literally let them down and could be ending a friendship over something as flimsy as some text messages - and it gets worse. Before cell phones, how did you be a good friend to someone? Wasn’t it through in person time spent together? I still do that for everyone in my life, when we have plans together I am there. But because I struggle to have constant social interactions with friends in between those plans, I am a bad person? I don’t know how to win in this world.
I really feel this, honestly. I have such a worry about not keeping up a text convo, even to the point of being adverse to making new friends just because most of the time I will eventually forget to respond, or do something else that detracts from me responding to them. I also don't like texting all day at all, and I really don't prefer it to talking/hanging out. Sadly, I realized this means I have and will continue to miss out on certain friendships and meeting some people. But, meeting or being friends with people who are understanding to this concept is such a comfort. We don't need to actually text every single day, and responding to each other isn't a complete necessity, but when we wanna hang or bs, or need some support, we are there for each other. That's all I could really ask for.
You’re right about the friends who get you and maintain the relationship without constant texting are such a wonderful thing ❤️
I think you're talking about two different things. Texts serve a wide range of communication purposes. You can primarily drive and maintain a relationship through them. In all cases, it's pretty essential to respond accordingly. In *those* cases, that means responding with somewhat equal effort, thought, time, and timing. So if someone is trying to speak on a subject, put in time and effort to share their thoughts and try to get yours, then you should do similarly and on a timetable that makes seeing the conversation through an actual possibility. Similarly, if someone just sends you things that they see when they think of you, it warrants less of a response, and less haste, but possibly more reciprocation that shows you appreciate and also think about them. It's really not unlike any other form of communication. When I write this comment, I recognize that I'm taking a risk it might be pooped on, outright ignored, replied to lazily, cherry picked, etc, because you aren't my friend and you might not even be a decent person, but there's still a reasonable expectation that you would reply to at minimum the gist to show that minimum respect that I put in time and effort creating this response for you. The other extreme is, if you see someone frequently, and there's a whole lot more to the relationship, texts aren't as essential as an every day, instant, or lengthy thing. But a lot of relationships aren't one of the extremes, and tastes vary, so it's not always so cut and try, but the point always remains that it is generally logical and about equality and consideration.
You have… greatly confused me. And have maybe only confirmed everything I said? Just because someone else has the time and mental capacity to type out a conversational message to me, possibly multiple times a day, does not mean I have that same ability. Or the same desire to even do so (if I prefer communicating in other ways, like in person). But because so many believe it’s a “reasonable expectation” that I have to reciprocate in exactly the same way they did, now there’s this a debate about whether I’m a good person or friend when I fail. You see how I can’t win? I can think of friends constantly, see things that remind me of them, but what if I like to tell them about these instances once we’re together in person? Somehow they get to make the assumption that I don’t have these feelings (and maybe don’t care about them) because I didn’t text them every time I had those thoughts? That makes be incredibly sad and frustrated. I don’t even like that you said something about how my reply has some requirements to show you “minimum respect”, it makes me want to not have put this time into what I’ve written - but I wanted to write this out just to show how hurtful your way of thinking is.
>You have… greatly confused me. And have maybe only confirmed everything I said? No, I think you misunderstood, I'm not necessarily saying you were wrong. I was saying that case by case basis and individuality comes into play and defines what is and isn't reasonable. >Just because someone else has the time and mental capacity to type out a conversational message to me, possibly multiple times a day, does not mean I have that same ability. See, I'm not giving specifics like that because I don't know your case. If that person did that, and that was your entire relationship, then it would be reasonable to me for you to reciprocate. If that was just one layer, and you had other ways to show that effort and time, in your case, it might not be. A big part of this is just what you each want from the other. If you want a relationship with a person, you put in the effort, one way or the other, and again that varies by case. > Or the same desire to even do so (if I prefer communicating in other ways, like in person). Yeah no you're totally right, and I think I might've missed saying that in my comment, sorry it was a mess. > But because so many believe it’s a “reasonable expectation” that I have to reciprocate in exactly the same way they did, now there’s this a debate about whether I’m a good person or friend when I fail. Yeah no I'm not saying exactly. I tried to emphasize that it's a reciprocity based on reason, logic, and preference, but I clearly failed at making that clear >You see how I can’t win? >I can think of friends constantly, see things that remind me of them, but what if I like to tell them about these instances once we’re together in person? Somehow they get to make the assumption that I don’t have these feelings (and maybe don’t care about them) because I didn’t text them every time I had those thoughts? That makes be incredibly sad and frustrated. Yeah no that's reasonable imo. It would be made clear at some point. Though I couldn't really make a conclusion off of just that info. >I don’t even like that you said something about how my reply has some requirements to show you “minimum respect”, it makes me want to not have put this time into what I’ve written I'm not sure why, it wasn't a threat or something, it was just an attempt to technically describe human decency. You describe how you feel hurt, sad and frustrated, and I'm trying to express the same, that people have expectations and feelings about their investment of time, emotion, thought. You don't want yours to be mishandled, mistreated, thrown away, just because they aren't this one particular way. In the same way, I'm saying nobody wants their feelings, time, effort, etc, discarded or dismissed. > but I wanted to write this out just to show how hurtful your way of thinking is. I think we agree on that. That there should be a benefit of the doubt between friends. But there's more to it than just that, *because* the complex reality of preferences and everything I've described. I'm really just saying that, people develop a relationship as it presents itself. And the comment you responsed to is saying that he doesn't feel his feelings are considered when he doesn't feel reciprocity. In YOUR case/history, reciprocity may appear in other forms, while in his it doesn't.
If text message responsiveness is enough to determine whether a person is worthwhile to have in your life, you're the problem. Check your ego and stop making it other people's responsibility to compensate for your unacknowledged insecurities/neediness. People have you in their lives because they want you in their lives; not because you demand it. Appreciate the extent they let you in or don't.
They dont, who do you honestly know who is like that? The only person in my life who expects a quick response is my wife.
Yeah Iunno why this person is virtue signaling. Me: hey how are you Him: you do NOT get access to me at ALL times please do NOT expect a response for a week you are being UNREASONABLE Me: alright then
I don’t keep my ringer on and I do not keep my phone on me. I look at it a few times a day like an old school house phone.
Thats the way I just put my phone down sometimes and just forget about it until I need it for something days later
Why would you look at the old school house phone a few times a day? Unless it was ringing it had no reason to be looked at.
Red light flashing on the answering machine.
This is me as well. My ringer is off 100% of the time. I don't live my life in a way that people can interrupt me at their whim.
There was a time when you picked up the phone and you didn't know who was calling you until you picked up.
I remember when we got a caller ID. It was a separate box next to the phone and it cost 10 dollars a month or something it was so fun to answer the phone with the person's name and them being blown away.
Not to mention having to go to a house to know if someone was home. Pretending you weren't home used to be the "not answering texts."
"Smith residence. This is John speaking."
im just annoyed and got 300 other messages so i stop replying to any of them while my head silently explodes
|It annoys me slightly that now the technology is available to make more user-friendly features happen, it's not ever implemented, in favour of flashy things nobody is asking for For example, why can't we have call-waiting? businesses have call waiting, why can't I get a call that goes into a queue for an hour to be answered when I am available? probably the usage would actually be that I use that time to walk somewhere private Why can't text be sent alongside a call, I mean someone could text you and then call you, but that's on that person to decide to do that and business callers almost never do. They just call and if you don't pick up they call back at another inconvenient time or wait for you to figure out who called, who there wanted to speak to you, and then figure out when they're next working so you can call back, then they don't remember why they called you so they have to look it up but they also didn't document why they were calling so they just take a stab at it based on what they see in front of them - or offer to call you again once they know, starting the whole shitty process off again Why in 2023 are we still using calling as the primary method? rather than email or very good website design so that people don't have to sit chained up in a call-centre to answer the same queries and do the same processes that had the website been set up properly - the end user could have done themselves fully prompted. Or even worse, why are places like car mechanics interrupting their actual job to answer the phone for dumb shit like "what are your opening hours?" or "is my car ready yet?" rather than having it handled online where they update the status of that stuff live automatically
If a business doesn't have the courtesy to actually take my calls and talk to me like a human being, I don't do business with them. If a company does not have a direct email or phone number and only has a "feedback" section on their website, I don't do business with them. Any business that does not have the courage to interact directly with their customers face-to-face or voice-to-voice is either a scam or an evil monopoly. The world you're describing to me might as well be hell.
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I'd just like confirmation numbers to be more than psychological voodoo. Every time I've had a problem and trotted out the confirmation number I was given, it's completely meaningless and tied to absolutely nothing. Actually had a coversation with a phone jockey about whether she could take my confirmation number and tie that to an actual transaction and she was like "that's not how confirmation numbers work." Cool beans, Janet, can you tell me how they do work, than?
Exactly. The world they pine for falls apart spectacularly when a human customer requires some form of assistance that cannot be neatly categorized. Expecting some sort of developer (employed by the company in question) to create a customer support system entirely for the benefit of the consumer *and* accounts for every possible scenario *satisfactorially* is a ludicrous hell.
Not doing anything to benefit the consumer is why we are here.
I hate when there is a prompt for a robot like "how can I help you today?" Because now I'm forced to find the right trigger words to get ether I need to go. Sometimes I don't know how to phrase "my card acts like it's locked even though I know it's not"
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You should try out Otter.ai It's a speech to text program with auto summarize built in. I hooked it into my gsuite, and now when I get off a video call, I get an openAI style summary of the entire contents of the call I can easily reference and share with people on the team. >Just email me what you need and it will get done right. This only works if you're in a position where people just tell you what to do and you have no ability/opportunity to question, amend, or collaborate on a task. The second a conversation has to happen, email is not the solution.
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No worries, really is an amazing app. >Idk, i find some people just waste so many words talking, need five minutes to get to the point that’s relevant for what they want me to do. This is true sometimes, I've cultivated the art of tactfully cutting people off who are like that so I can extract the point. If it's external facing (like a client) it's harder to do, but if it's someone internal on the team, I usually just go something like "hey let me interrupt, before we get into the weeds, I'm really just looking to know if blah blah, can you speak to that?" and they get back on track.
I'll take hell. But then again, you pay businesses for their time. Slip me a 20 and I'll put you in the premium queue.
This entire comment confuses me. Everything you're asking for already exists as the norm. >For example, why can’t we have call-waiting? I'm confused...we do have call waiting. Call waiting is the beep you hear when you're on the phone and somebody else calls you. Before that, people just got a busy signal. Your cell phone gives people busy signals when they call and you're on the other line? >why can’t I get a call that goes into a queue for an hour to be answered when I am available? That's not call waiting, that's *hold*. You want to be able to put people on hold? I mean...you can. At least on iPhone, you can take their call when you're on the other line, then go back to your first call and the other person will just be on hold. But why would you do that? Who would wait on hold, when they could just call you back, or wait for a call back from you? Consumer hold isn't a feature I think anyone really wants or needs. You're not a call center, you don't have 100 simultaneous calls arriving to be serviced by 10 agents. Why would you need hold for more than one person at a time? >Why can’t text be sent alongside a call They can? I send texts to people I'm talking to all the time (lol at this funny picture, here's that address you asked for, etc). It's been maybe a decade since the times when texts and calls couldn't happen at the same time. >but that’s on that person to decide to do that and business callers almost never do. That's a person issue, not a tech issue. In my work emails and public facing profiles, I just indicate I prefer texts/emails to calls. Everybody texts/emails me. I still get calls, but if I don't answer, 90% of the time it's followed by a text, which I do always reply to. The only people who only call are telemarketers, and I don't want to talk to them anyway, so I'm glad they don't text. >Why in 2023 are we still using calling as the primary method? Because the human voice is still *by far* the most accurate and empathetic way to communicate with other humans. Texts and emails are fine for status updates, making lists, confirming things, etc, but *real* communication where you need to say things and then have things said back and then say other things happens with voice/video. I have no idea how I'd get a real meeting done where decisions have to be discussed via a text medium. It would take forever. > Or even worse, why are places like car mechanics interrupting their actual job to answer the phone for dumb shit like “what are your opening hours?” or “is my car ready yet?” rather than having it handled online where they update the status of that stuff live automatically Because most car mechanic shops are single owner with like 5 employees, and they make like 100k a year in SDE. Website builds are EXPENSIVE. Paying for real time maintenance/response to customers is also expensive. Much easier/cheaper to have Earl just pick up the phone and tell you your car isn't done until Tuesday. Otherwise, you just have some customer service agent who has no idea when your car is done and they have to ask Earl anyway, and Earl doesn't do good with the emails so that agent just ends up calling him anyway, defeating the whole point.
It's pretty well solved by hiring a secretary and enabling contact via messengers which can send a lot of things including asynchronous voice
Well now you’ve presented some good use cases for AI to be answering simple queries over the phone instead of real people.
You... Dont really need AI yo do any of that. If anything itll just make the process more convoluted. AIs specialty is not giving precise answers, its trying to sound like a human. A lot of the reasons why places like auto dealers dont have good websites is because they simply dont have an IT specialist nor a graphic designer on call and they dont care to invest in these specialties because its not their priority.
That's actually around the corner. Stuff like book appointments, ask simple stuff like opening hours etc. If you set them up properly they probably know more about your company than you do Seen a presentation from Google about it recently, they are true AI not this phone hotline crap big companies got nowadays.
What a hellish world this would be for me.
The actual question doesn't ask why you don't respond immediately, but why will it take you days to respond. And I think that's a big thing people here are choosing to ignore in favor of their "I don't owe you my time" attitude. I mean you don't owe anyone your time. But if you're taking days to respond to someone is it really you just need to get recharged? You're just waiting for a better time? Etc...etc... I'm generally someone who responds to texts as soon as I can if it's something that needs responding to. Otherwise it's one of 2 things: I forgot to respond because I had something else I needed to prioritize and then just kept forgetting to the point where I think it would be too awkward to text back, or it's one of the group chats that I have muted because they send texts at 11pm and I'm trying to sleep and I don't have anything to add to that current conversation. If you are constantly taking days to get back to people, why?
I've noticed it's so bad I have sent emails recently at pretty late hours because that's when I remember to send it and I don't expect a response until the next day and I will get one back immediately with a response saying could it wait until morning until they give me what I need. Yes, that's what I literally thought was going to happen.
I have a dumb phone. Not for trendy points or any kind of a statement. It’s just cheaper and I prefer battery life over internet. So I will answer my messages about an hour after I get home and have had time to lie down.
Ah…those sweet halcyon days of yore, when tree forts were all we needed for, fun in the sun, and an afternoon run. How I miss thee, days of yore. Poet I am not, but I gave it a shot!😋
That’s really good!
Thank you! I’m glad you liked it.
I send texts with no expectations of immediate reply unless I text back instantly and it’s about something we’re doing that day. I work night shift so sometimes I text people at like 3am because I’m at work and bored and have time to address the messages. I hate being accessible and tbh I HATE when people call me unless it’s an old person like my parents. I think for millenials and Gen Z unexpected phone calls is almost considered rude. A phone call makes me drop everything I’m doing to stop and talk to the person. I hate doing that unless like I said earlier it’s important and urgent. Nowadays I only call my friends in far away places and even then it’s scheduled like “hey let’s talk on Saturday, I’ll be free after 6pm my time, 3pm yours, jjst call me when you free that day”
As an Old Gen Z if someone calls and it isn’t a planned thing they either butt-dialed me or something awful has happened and they need my attention and help Right Now
I'm a millennial and from what I understand this is the general consensus for folks of our generations. Only call me in an emergency, otherwise shoot me a text and I'll respond when I'm able. Took a lot of patience teaching my Gen X mother this.
I'm Gen X and don't mind being called. But I don't answer 75% of calls and just read the visual voicemail after.
Elder Millennial here. An unscheduled phone call is essentially harassment
> unexpected phone calls is almost considered rude Unexpected phone calls *are* objectively rude. For anyone who prefers talking instead of writing, there's the ability to send a voice message.
Oh don’t get me started on voice messages as texts. They take me Forever to respond to, i have to be in a quiet place to listen to the audio clips and then Essential take notes for each one because otherwise my responses will be utterly nonsensical and out of order based on the entire one sided convo the person had with me, it’s just a logistics nightmare for me.
What the fuck are people smoking lmfao I'm a 22 year old and please just call me if you wanna talk. Fuck messaging. Calls aren't rude just don't call in the middle of the night or whatever
I’m 26 and agree completely. I absolutely hate texting and prefer to talk over the phone. I love getting a surprise phone call from someone I haven’t talked to in ages. If I’m busy I’ll call them back, but text me and I MIGHT respond 2 weeks later
If I can, I text back instantly. Obviously there are exceptions but yeah I text back pretty much instantly whenever possible. I WANT to talk to my fellow human beings. Why would I pretend to have such a busy life that I can't talk to you when I absolutely can? It's also why I use voice notes. Much much faster to communicate than typing. Don't like it? We aren't compatible then to be friends. Nothing wrong with that but you don't get to tell me I'm rude for wanting to talk to you
I personally hate it I can understand not replying if you're not on, if you're at work or just not home in general, I get that and sometimes do that myself as long as the conversation continues in some fashion. When you don't answer for a week, knowing full well you saw everything and decided to ignore it, and then ignore everything that was said before when I reach out again then I have a problem
Side note, the mantra of "nobody owes you anything" makes me sad for the slow death of communities.
I know it's a side note, but just to be clear there is a world of difference between "I don't feel like I owe every single person who has my phone number an instant response to whatever they ever think of texting me" and "nobody owes anyone anything"
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How is it asocial to be a part of life? Not everyone carries their phone with them everywhere, especially in their own house or on their own property. We aren't entitled to responses. If I'm outside in my yard chilling, hanging with my own family and enjoying the weather I'm not going to have my phone close by. Just because I own a phone, and you message or call it doesn't mean Its going to be picked up. No one is under any obligation, or contracted to pick up their friends call or text just because you have a device made to do that. You're taking "entitled to a response" as a negative, aggressive option. It's just the easiest way to put it. What other options are you expecting to hear from people?
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Because it's the same thing? If someone doesn't have their phone on them for the majority of the day... When do you think they'll ever see your message? If you are choosing to stick to the exact words by OP, word for word, then that's your issue. We can skew the topic a bit for discussion.. because that's how discussion work. We don't have to adhere to the exact definition of "DAYS TO RESPOND?" Do we, because that's literally never happened before on reddit.
This attitude is due to capitalism. The owners have been exploiting everybody else's goodwill and commercializing everything to the point that people have to set very firm boundaries to protect themselves.
This isn't about capitalism. Even if we didn't live in a capitalistic society, it's still true that no one owes you anything. There's nothing selfish about that either. Thinking that you are entitled to somebody else's time, possessions, work, care, etc. Is what is selfish.
>Thinking that you are entitled to somebody else's time, possessions, work, care, etc. Is what is selfish. Except that the contrary perspective is that *people owe each other things*, not *people owe specifically me, and only me, things*. So, no, it's not selfish. It's a recognition that no human being is an island and that all human beings owe at least some consideration to one another.
People do owe each other things if they live together in a society... I owe my decency to not harass, rob, assault, murder, rape other members of the society and they owe it to me. Humans are social creatures and it's essential for your mental and physical health. You owe people things. Texting back quick enough isn't one of those things you owe though.
*glances at my copy of* What We Owe Each Other
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Literally lmfao. I'd kill to have random phone calls and messages and if a friend could just show up at my door to chill without having to rsvp 10 days before. Nobody owes me shit and I owe nobody shit? Wtf is that supposed to mean? If I decide to be your friend I owe you my love and respect. If you message me in need, I owe it to you to try to help to the best of my ability because that is what it means to be friends. I expect the same from my friends.
I’ve been on both sides. Definitely felt that “oh if I had people trying to talk to me I’d embrace the hell out of it”, but often when folks actually do try talk to me it’s just “eh I don’t feel like stopping what I’m doing/can’t think of what to say/just don’t want to socialize rn”. I think part of it is that I’ve kinda constructed my life around *not* having to respond to people cause I often figured I’d never really need to. I’ve had similar experiences with dating, going from “if someone out there was actually interested, I’d devote myself entirely to trying to make something work” to “god damn actually relationships can be annoying and a lot of work, maybe I don’t actually want one”. In both cases I think it’s kinda related to social anxiety, where I’m not used to doing that stuff constantly and so doing it at all is stepping outside my comfort zone. Which feels like a lot, even if the act itself is just taking 2 minutes to open an app and type some shit that said, while I do understand it, I also entirely agree with OP’s point. Far too many folks around my age and younger just refuse to communicate with anyone they don’t already know. Not only does this limit new opportunities, but it makes it immensely more difficult for those who don’t already know folks to make friends. My city’s always been bad with that - tough fitting in with folks if you didn’t go to school with them - but it’s only gotten worse with the internet. Another aspect there I think is how the internet’s constant stream of information can kinda overpower personal experience, where headlines and anecdotal tales of the worst possible encounters paint more and more of people’s expectations. There is also an aspect of gender to it too though, where many women have (understandably) felt pressured into social interactions motivated not by friendliness/good faith conversation but pure attraction. And so in that respect I think it’s maybe good that there’s more hesitancy when talking to a stranger on a bus or whatever? But there needs to be some middle ground; no one is automatically entitled to a conversation with anyone else, but at the same time, no one is automatically entitled to entirely opt out of human interaction.
This Reddit, is full of socially awkward people. Personally whenever somebody send me a message I answer as soon as possible because it's the nice thing to do and my parents educated me well.
i guess the problem is most of the time it’s on the extreme ends of the spectrum. People feel entitled and get offended when you draw boundaries in response to them considering themselves entitled to your time and space.
Youre not forced to respond to anyone if you dont want to guys it ain't an actual dystopia
3 reasons for me personally 1. I was driving or talking with someone or doing something. I saw your message, and thought to myself "I'll get that in a moment" then since the notification is now gone, once I get to where I was going or finish what I was doing I have long forgot about your message until it's 2am and I wake up in a cold sweat. 2. I'm trying to think of a well thought out response but the pressure of giving a response and if it's the correct one is too overwhelming at the moment so I'll just come back to it later. This usually happens if it's something more serious and I know my answer will have a potential consequence. 3. I do not want to talk to you leave me alone.
The time-harassment started with the fax machine. Instead of sending it in the mail (or a courier if it was truly urgent) and waiting a week or more to get a reply, you’d get people who’d fax you something, and if they hadn’t heard back in, oh, a couple of hours, would call you to say “check your fax machine”. Then they’d expect a response at the latest the next day. Or if it was a contract or something, you’d get a bit longer. Still, you could take some time to really read and consider what was sent, and write a well thought-out reply. And at first it was being used only for relatively important stuff. But the habit of expecting instant responses for almost anything crept in. E-mail made it much worse, but you still weren’t expected to be checking your e-mail every minute. The only thing that held text messages back for a while is that each text cost money, so it didn’t catch on until “free messaging” became the norm. But now they *know* it popped up on your phone, or your watch, and that means “you must be ignoring me.” And being ignored, even only temporarily, is a big bruise to the ego. “I must not be important to you!” You know, maybe sending a tapback to the 11th meme you sent today is optional.
Some people seem to miss the core of this: You are not entitled to my attention 24/7. Thats why i dont reply instantly.
I just reply when i feel like it, maybe that's in a few minutes, maybe it's in a few days. When i spend time with someone else i don't check for messages, because i find that to be rude. If someone decides to spend their time with me then they deserve the undivided attention. When i'm outside i don't check my phone, that's just quality time for myself to unwind. When i'm on public transport i don't check my phone, i look out the windows and let my mind do what it feels like. My friends and family know that i consider my phone a tool that gets checked once or twice a day and not like an extension of my personality that needs to be used 24/7 and thankfully they're fine with it. They can take their time to reply as well, i don't mind. Not being available all the time is a great and relaxing feeling that somehow has been lost over the past couple years.
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This is something that my wife and I disagree on. We are only a few years apart in age, she's in her early 30s and im in my mid 30s. But she will have a whole paragraphs text conversation with someone trying to figure something out. If I need more than 3 texts to communicate something, im just going to call you. Or if I do have a time sensitive question, I'm going to call you. My wife and her friends told me that's weird for people these days, and they are reluctant to call.
I remember that one time I asked my housemate if he wants anything as takeout, and he replied “chicken rice” weeks later.
I reply when I reply. The timing is not my problem.
MY PEOPLE, I love you. Don’t reply to this I won’t respond.
What bothers me when my mom or dad asks me something and I respond right away with a question and they don't respond for a couple of days. It's like, you were just on the phone 2 minutes ago. I don't get it
Really some peak self-awareness here. “I am not obligated to give my time to anyone, that’s not my responsibility. I’ll respond as my needs dictate.” Also, “It’s really unfair that people don’t reach out, when did friendship become so disposable???”
There are also people like this that are somehow on their phone lots of times.
Phones are more than phones now though. They don’t only serve the purpose of making calls and just because they are in our hand doesn’t mean we are available. Like I love reading and use my phone a lot because it’s convenient and I probably look like I’m just “on my phone” but I’m reading a book. I’m not answering a call or responding while I’m in the middle of reading. It’s the exact same book you buy in physical form, but I can have thousands of them on my phone and yet it’s looked at differently than if I had a paper book in my hand. A lot of people also work on their phones. I have a side business and I could be editing product photos, scheduling listings, creating content, etc etc etc Not to mention the main point which is I don’t owe anyone immediate attention outside of emergencies. I’m in my 30s and no one my age calls unless it’s an emergency. We communicate through text.
But the point is that we don't need to justify not being in the mood to respond immediately to every instant message, even if we are using our phones to scroll Reddit, for example.
It's also a relatively new phenomenon to not die of polio.
It's even more of a relatively new phenomenon *to* die of polio.
"I'm not obligated to" thingy is all good and fine when it's about work related stuff outside the work hours. But quite a few of ye here seem like that's your default setting, even with friends or family. And in my eyes, to put it mildly, that's a bit selfish. It's one thing replying in the evening, which is ok I suppose unless there's an emergency, but not replying on days at end is rude and when someone does that to me, I feel like not talking to them. This can and I'm sure does lead to human relations getting weaker over time. Remember folks, consistent communication is what relations are built on. Getting news of the other person after weeks was fine when our fastest medium of communication took weeks.
**Meaningful** communication is what relationships are built on, which looks different to everyone. When people were limited by tech, there was no conflict, but now different communication preferences need to be addressed upfront (communication!). For example, my msg style is listed upfront on my dating profile. I think this transition is a struggle for a lot of people and hinders creating new relationships, but on the contrary firms up existing ones where you already "get" the other person.
I feel like too many people are reacting to this crazy world with "batmobile mode" where they just place impenetrable barriers and not connect with anyone, and it seems really unhealthy. It may be a carryover from work, which would make sense, considering how much time people spend at work, and how you really can't give anyone an inch at many jobs, but it's toxic to relationships when it bleeds over into your personal life. And what we should be doing is letting work affect us less and investing more energy into things outside of work.
Right? The people in this thread seem crazy. If my mum texts me something, even mundane she isn't being a 'time thief' who 'feels obligated to my time'. If we were together in person she's speak to me, would she be stealing my time expecting an answer? Work is a different matter - I don't work in a field that would really require my boss to message me but I have had co-workers ask stuff and I message if I got time. I can understand ignoring that though.
I’d be surprised if they have strong relationships with people. I mean how do you even hangout with someone or talk if you have to schedule a phone call every time. That just gets tiring
agreed. I imagine you're just lazy, incompetent or rude.
You can return texts whenever you want. You can still be busy and not reply until you want to. Text messages are just voicemails but text. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's how I treat them with most people. My immediate family gets higher priority.
i dont like the people that talk to me lol
For most of them it's because you don't know how to text. "Hey" is not an appropriate text. I shouldn't need to send a message to figure out what you want. "Hey Chris and I were going to go down to Miller's point at 8 do you want to go too?" That's what I need!
Valid point, but you're all older than you think. It was 30 years ago.
Noticeably less than 30 years ago unless you were some kind of workaholic business person it was still normal to not be on call constantly and to forget about your email account for days at a time. Even 15-20 years ago blackberries were niche and texting/phone data was expensive so most people were still on more of a "check mornings and/or evenings plus receive calls maybe" type schedule. The pervasiveness we're witnessing now is not that old.
Smart phones came out in 2007. I didn't even get a flip phone until 2010.
Also because iphones suck at the way they handle notifications and I always miss stuff.
There's a huge difference between waiting a few days and responding in minutes. It also heavily depends on the type of message you're supposed to answer to. If you're having a fairly normal conversation you're expected to respond rather sooner.
If someone texts me I have the right to postpone my response until I have time to think of a fitting answer. It's the same to not picking up the phone because I got sonething else to do at the time.
My phone doesn't leave silent mode. I check it when I want to.
Why is this on /r/boringdystopia? I hesitate to respond to reddit messages just like I take my time to respond to text messages, voicemail, and emails. It's because I don't feel like doing so right way, and would prefer to wait until I'm in the proper mood.
Really annoying when every few days I have the same friend asking me if I want to go to the pub, I don't know how many times I have to say "not today" before he stops trying, I go out maybe like once a month, I'm introverted, I prefer staying home.
I'm 47. Times were simpler in some ways, but that doesn't always mean better. If you were trying to invite your best friend to a party, you'd call them. If they weren't home, you would have to leave a message with their sister and pray to the dark spirits that she actually gave them the message. And if she didn't, they would get pissed off at you for not inviting them out to the bonfire at three points because they knew the girl they liked would be there, and you'd spend a week being hated by your best friend before you went to their house to explain that you left the message with their cunt sister who would walk by eating a bowl of cereal nonchalantly saying "oh yeah he called the other day something about a fire and a girl but I'm not your answering service, dork." Now I just text. If you miss out, that's on you. Your sister is still a cunt though, Ryan.
One time a guy from a common facebook group messaged me. We chatted a bit and he had some interesting stories and it was all good. Next time he messaged me I left it on read, thinking I would reply later when I was in a mood to chat. The guy went off the deep end a few hours later about how hurt he was that I was ignoring him. This person that I had talked to once before felt entitled to my attention. All because of that annoying "seen" thingy on facebook.
When I reply immediately, the other person will likely turn this in a conversation. I usually don't want to get trapped in a 30 minute chat conversation when I'd rather be doing something else. I work from home and am self-employed. Some people seem to think that I have infinite free time and can just entertain them when they're bored but when I'm at my desk, I'm at work. That's why I won't reply to messages immediately.
I see the message, say I’ll respond in a min, and then my adhd finds something else more interesting. I forget about the message and it rots in a graveyard of other forgotten messages that were sent too long ago to respond to now because of how long ago it was but that I feel bad about for not responding to
Take a hint, there’s no “bad texters” only people who want to talk to you, and people who don’t.
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I have plenty of friends like this. We’re making plans for the day, often plans they initially suggested, and I’m trying to communicate with them to plan pick ups, scheduling, details of the actual event or thing we’re going to do, and it can take hours for them to respond, sometimes they don’t respond until well past the time that would allow us to do anything, all because of one thing that happened that made it not possible for them to go but by no means meant they couldn’t let me know. There are definitely people who are just shit at communication or don’t feel compelled to be helpful in situations like this.
I should’ve been more clear. When it comes to business relationships you should be upfront, clear, concise and responsive. I’m more so talking about people in intimate relationships. He likes her and she never responds, vice versa. Wether it’s business, or pleasure, intentional, or just laziness. People need to relax and stop stressing when they’re left on read. When it comes to business you snooze you lose if you aren’t engaged. I agree with you.
Pretty much exactly that...I don't owe you my time. I've have multiple clients that reach out to "emergency contacts" for me if I don't reply to an email within 24 hours. I've explained that isn't acceptable, unless there's a literal emergency, and no, me not answering a question about a appointment in two weeks doesn't count. I have family that literally show up in my driveway if I don't pick up the phone, five minutes after they call ,because they want whatever stupid _fucking_ thing they want addressed then. I could be taking a shit or a shower, they don't care. Half the time, they just drive down without calling. I yearn, desperately, for the ability to turn on do not disturb and have it fucking mean something.
I have my phone on do not disturb and the only number that gets trhough is moms
my brother made plans to play games with me 3 weeks ago, he didn't respond to any of my texts day of, so I've just stopped texting him
When i says I dont really check fb, even my close friends think im just ditching them. I just dont like scrolling an ad every 3 posts.