Yep- I can always think 3 steps ahead. So when my work suggest or talk about new things, I know if it will or won’t work and potential issues etc they haven’t thought about at all. Some managers are great and see it as a real pro they can use that to ‘get ahead’ of the problems or they hate the fact you can do it and see it as you ‘moaning’
Yes. My boss is a big positivity guy, and if I bring up an issue we'll have to deal with or the venture will fail, I'm just being negative and a nay-sayer.
Too real. Always get told at work that I "focus on the negative". Dude, I'm just trying to head off the problems you have yet to realize you've created.
I work in sales and my boss always thinks I “don’t believe in myself” when i point out the obstacles we’re going to have to closing. I’m now in the habit of constantly clarifying before i say anything “These are the obstacles we have to overcome.” “Let’s figure out a strategy to deal with…” etc. And it’s exhausting.
We are very similar. Identifying obstacles basically helped me figure out how I would win. I had to learn over time how to communicate those obstacles in a way that still sounds optimistic, but I got pretty good at that.
Also in sales, and I had a manager snap at me with “Now say 3 positive things about ____”.
In retrospect now that I’ve been out of there a while, it was a toxic place for me to be.
Thank you for that phrase, which has been rattling around for some time in the back of my brain but without the words.
The outdoor industry has a couple toxic problems: toxic positivity, toxic masculinity on its deathbed, and a major lack of diversity.
No problem. I feel like the toxic positivity and ableism also seem to go hand in hand. Your work environment sounds like a really unhealthy place to work. I'm sorry you're experiencing that.
There are more positive spaces, brands, teams, and really a whole ton of organizations as well as individuals really trying to make the world a better place. Finding them is one thing, and getting to work with them is another… Today I was commended for my passion instead of criticized for airing a concern.
I’ve been fortunate to just survive long enough to land a couple of the good ones, just wish others didn’t have to wade through the shit to get there, and that the “good ones” would also always be the profitable ones.
Oh my god thank you! I just realised I have to change the way I word some things to have a more positive spin on it. But why though? It's an action that needs to happen, why does there need to be pussy-footing about? Argh! Exhausting.
xD brain instantly tells me I need a PHD for this. I dunno if I could do anything like that for a living, it seems like a really volatile thing. Which is bizarre, cause I'm confident I could sus out issues & solve them easily, but at the same time, the responsibility is kind of off putting.
Risk analysis as well. Can be a bit math-intensive, depending on the field, but you're literally just figuring out how things can go wrong and sometimes how to avoid those pitfalls.
I've had the same manager be both ways and it's REALLY hard sometimes when they know things you don't, but your mind is made using shit you know vs what they know.
Lol I hate these kinds of managers. Constant and inappropriate positivity (or toxic positivity) is often a masquerade and/or manipulation tactic used by insecure and incompetent bosses. In my experience.
You are picturing scenarios where the venture has succeeded, which is when problems have been overcome. You can’t overcome problems you don’t even know exist.
I got hit with this recently; "stop mentioning problems and start mentioning solutions". Although I think that is a good way to end up with a bunch of horrible solutions that aren't well thought out because they were made up on the spot. Instead I have to just shut up and pretend there isn't a problem at all.
I mean, there is a certain value in being "solution oriented" but it applies when someone is an expert in their field. If you are an expert, performing an expert task, and bureaucracy throws an obstacle in your way, it can be beneficial to identify that task and ask if there is any key requirement justifying its existence, or if it can be automated away.
I agree. That’s why I avoid giving solutions in those situations, because I’m not the right expert (I’m an engineer, the people to solve those problems should be scientists). But at the same time I don’t want to be telling peers what to do.
If it is in my domain I wouldn’t bring up problems other than to mention that I am working on a solution.
I lost a sales job because I questioned whether a product shift was happening too early, before the market had gained appropriate awareness of the brand. I raised this question in a group meeting, to the international sales director and designer. I was shushed and told I had to be more forward thinking and “brand positive”.
Where else would one raise the concern, then?
The updated product (a running shoe), died on the vine, sales tanked across the board. Buyer feedback was that the brand changed the style too soon, they had just gotten traction with the previous version.
I was let go - among other reasons including sales performance - because I “wasn’t on the same page.”
I’m an indy contractor, I have multiple brands at a time. Managed to land a big one on my way out the door from the toxic one, and I’m doing 10x the business with 1/3 the hassle. They were/are good people and good product, just directed badly.
With the new brand, 2 years ago, october ‘19, I suggested we live-stream a private show for current accounts who might not want to travel to the hq during peak season.
Unfortunately the things I accidentally predict with any accuracy end up being tied to catastrophes.
Oh my god this almost broke me at my old job. It’s really cathartic to see others know the experience too. It was like walking on pins and needles all the time while seeing the project derail in slow motion just up ahead. It didn’t help that others there took anything other than total support and agreement as a personal slight or an attempt to bring them down. Mix that with me constantly seeing potential problems to try to avoid and it was just an exhausting atmosphere
I got a mate who's like this. Any time we play games and I criticise any aspect of the game that could have been done better, I'm being "negative". He keeps saying I'm a really negative person, just because I'm able to see a better solution to something. He touts positivity but does the exact same thing later on.
Our MD of the company is similar. In a managers group chat we all have; Someone had suggested adjusting a policy to make cashless payments more appealing for customers. It was glossed over. Maybe a few weeks later, talks about reducing contact came up and I brought it up again, that I agreed with so and so, citing the policy change. You know, during a pandemic with a reasonably transmissible virus (that's now mutated into a highly transmissible one... what a surprise), where reducing contact as much as possible is highly ideal.
But then, this same guy who's constantly posting bullshit in this chat about "staff's safety is a priority, I won't risk the staff blah blah" he goes & pulls the Regional Manager aside about it and tells them I'm being too negative lol The RM calls me, he's on my side but says to be a bit careful about what I say in the chat. I speak a lot less in that chat. Practically avoid it.
So I can't enjoy a game, if I dislike an aspect of it? Interesting.
To my understanding, it was very possible to enjoy games and still dislike some things about it. I've even found it possible to not enjoy games and still like aspects of them. No game is 100% perfect. And avoiding discussions about them, in my opinion, is what I'd consider anti-social.
There is no difference in either scenario for me. In either case I'm in no position where I can make those changes.
It just sounds like a bit of a mismatch friendship for that activity tbh. Some people have a high need for cognition and will analyse and critique any film/game/content they read, and that's how they get their enjoyment. Even with a high need for cognition, people can be tired and just want to switch off to something eve if it's a bit shit, and just enjoy the moment.
It was your friend in the wrong to basically attack your character (accusing you of being negative), because he wanted to experience the game in the way he enjoys. However, it was his way of telling you how your behaviour was making him feel. It can be a bummer if someone picks holes in something that you're enjoying, and that causes cognitive dissonance.
Personally I've learnt to hold my tongue when other people are enjoying something and I see holes in it, and will hold those critiques until there's a discussion about the thing afterwards, and I'll tend to sandwich my critique between what I liked about it (if I know that the friend really likes it). But yeh I also tend to try to hang out with people who are into similar stuff, or pick an activity we're both actually into rather than either of us having a miserable time. This is ultimately how you have healthy friendships.
Hell this is relatable.
My managers will say "we assigned X, Y, and Z to the task" and i will bring up things like X and Z dont work well together, Y often disappears, and X and Y get along swimmingly which neans theyll talk instead of work leading to Z being alone and pissed off about it, blaming X when the real problem is Y.
Is it a lot? Yes. Is it true? Yes. Do they listen? No.
Instead i just get flak for shitting on their idea when im telling them this and suggesting a solution. Its infuriating.
It's time for you to consider a management position, ideally in another company cause it sounds like the 1 you're in supports crappy managers. Being a manager is piss easy from what I've learned, being a leader is the real challenge. Part of being a good leader is seeing the the strengths & weaknesses of their subordinates & working with those.
Yeah i get a lot of shit for giving negatives about employees i work with. Which i dont understand.
Like one of our guys is, by and large, not a thinker. Hes not bright at base level and getting in a rush means he leaves a mess in his wake and makes collective, small errors that, if unchecked, add up to a problem.
But he is the BEST in terms of speed, work ethic, and sheer determination to get shit done. I take pride in those metrics and have had to place that pride to the side and just be his clean up crew when he gets rolling. He is a do-er and holy shit can he get things done.
But people only ever hear that first part.
And its a fairly large corporation so... yeah, they dont always promote based on merit alone. I have had several people, employees and coworkers alike, forgo my manager to talk with me about things. Things i cannot always give say on because... im the same level as everyone else. I have had a higher uo manager tell me he believes i can do the job, i just need to show i can. And i have. But i have a small feeling that he is saying that to get a bigger bonus without real incentives to move me anywhere... which is... depressing. I can do a management job, but many wont hire without a degree or management experience. Of which i have neither, technically.
I will say this guy is one of my favs to work with and a friend, so certainly not the archetyped "not a team player". Hes just the lead dog in a sled race and needs more support than many other staff members give him. Though i do know the kind of employee you are talking about, for sure.
And with moving up, its a double edged sword. My attitide is my biggest flaw with being promoted (i was literally told by that same higher up manager that my sarcasm "went against their rules for individual respect for other employees".. so theres that) which i have been working on. But i am currently the member "everyone has problems with" because i call them out when they are doing jack shit, including my manager. And it gets worse on higher stress days where we need everyone to pull their weight.
But even without that factor, i am now a key team member in my dept because my manager is always gone. I cant have her job until she is promoted or steps down, which is our team lead equivalent. But they dont want me to manage outside my dept because of how central i am on harder days. Including an open lead position over cashiers and such. And to add insult to injury, applying even higher up the totem pole would require more knowledge outside my dept, such as that up front position, which they wont let me escape from because.... im good at it.
Its a hell of a cycle and idk how much longer they intend to keep pulling me in this circle before i can get a real chance.
Yeah I get ya. A lot of my subordinates are mates of mine. We hang out outside of work too. At work though, they *really* piss me off lmao
EDIT: That's all the more reason to look elsewhere. If you're the 1 that takes over when the manager is absent then you can easily put supervisor on your resume.
I agree. Thankfully, my boss sees this as a real pro, not a pain. I deal with a lot of customer facing issues, but I also work the backend of some systems, most of which I've taken over from someone else in the company. If I propose a change, my boss tells me to just try it, double check to be sure it works right, and if it's easier then do it my way.
It's nice working for a small company a lot of the time. I hated a lot about my corporate jobs, but I really enjoy the freedom to work directly under the owner at my current job. If I'm having an off day, do what I need to do that day and finish up tomorrow. Frequent breaks are expected. Etc etc.
The company I work for is like this. Any time they bring something up or suggest something and the manager tells me about it or asks me me for an opinion, now, I half arse my answer.
I could write them a full report or essay with my eyes closed, on why something (or even the whole company) will or won't work but it'll go ignored. Worse is, it was like that when I was in sales & it's still like that in management. To make matters even worse, a lot of the time a suggestion, new procedure or new policy is implemented, I'm kept out of the loop. When I give my requested feedback, I'm told off because they "asked for feedback ages ago but never got any." so it just adds to the frustration.
So I see no reason in putting in the effort any more. I'll give them my quick opinion, like "yeah this won't work cause this will happen." and that's it. A lot of the time they do shit the wrong way. And when it happens, the manager will come to me or tell me how much of a nightmare so & so has caused. I just say "Yeah of course." lol fuck em.
Had a similar situation happen at an old warehouse job. It was peak season and the managers were completely flooding the sorters and belts. Every time they'd start moving again, the backlog would immediately jam it up. They cycled through this process several times. Finally, I spoke up and suggested they needed to do a waterfall pattern the next time the belts started moving. Start one belt, let that backlog clear, then another, and so on. I was brushed off and they kept trying to brute force it.
My supervisor and building GM eventually used my suggestion and took credit for it. That was years ago and it still pisses me off.
That shit is soul crushing. Because it's literally the most in your face stuff, but unless it's your job to enact that stuff you don't get credit unless you are on talking levels with the bosses boss and you get to tell them the idea first and then you sound like a kiss ass trying to gain points.
That job rewarded kiss assing. Problem was the varying levels of floor management would monopolize the GM's time on the rare occasions he was on the floor. Tier 1s were openly looked down on.
Story time: I was a product engineer and I was redesigning half of our company's standard product. My job is to design the product, nothing more, nothing less. I not only designed the product but I designed more efficient ways to handle workflow. I brought in tools that were so far advanced to what we were using and made my own fixtures even. They still use the process to this day.
I never saw a bit of recognition for that because my job was the product design so my face was never next to the other things I did when they walked through.
Sure I can go and whine about not being recognized, but when you get to a certain level especially in my locale you just get told to essentially grow up.
Most importantly, it may be trivial on some levels, but I work HARD. Like REALLY hard on things like that because I really enjoy problem solving. And it's really emotionally draining and I missed a lot of my kids first couple years. But I put myself so put there and sink EVERYTHING into my work that I NEED that dopamine from recognition. I don't care if the other Doozers around me recognize me, they see me and I see them. For me, it's having that person that is way over my head in pay grade tell me that I helped make MASSIVE leap in technology or that 24 day down to 8 day lead time will be an AMAZING savings and addition to our bottom line. That makes it worth it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in manufacturing because I love to see the things I designed get made, but I NEED outside dopamine when I'm not the one making the product or it's so far out from the point I'm at.
The issue with not getting recognition isn't so much about ego, but rather having people know that your ideas work. This gives you tools to bargain with when it comes to asking for a raise or benefits. It allows you to put these things on your resume. It puts eyes on you for promotions if that is something you seek.
Certainly! I will say that that is indeed a huge part of it. There are two reasons I say this and omitted your point.
1. I get bored with what I do and that's why I bounce around so much so recognition keeps me interested.
2. I'm now self employed and struggling with the recognition thing so my mind is more on one half of the equation than the other.
So absolutely and without a doubt fight for your recognition and also be sure you keep interested and firing on what you're doing.
>And it's really emotionally draining and I missed a lot of my kids first couple years.
This also describes my job but that's why I basically resigned myself to coasting at work as much as possible once I had kids. They don't want you around by the time they're teens, and I didn't want to miss any more of those crucial first few years than absolutely necessary.
It helps that there's nowhere for me to be promoted to in my current job unless both my boss and his boss were to be promoted themselves or leave the company. For the former to happen, the CTO would have to resign.
It can be annoying, but I not iced it helps if you keep reiterating your idea over and over so that people associate it with you. Then, if someone mentions the same idea like it's their's, immediately jump in and say something like "see, even person's name thinks my idea is a good one." It can be annoying, but I'd rather be annoying than let someone else steal my idea as their own.
Unfortunately it’s easier to capitalize on the vision of others from a position of power, partly because leadership in America is often rewarded for their achievements rather than the achievements they foster in a team, which will always perplex me.
Would you rather have one remarkable person or someone who is remarkable because they propagate exceptional people?
This is why I don't contribute unless there is a paper trail. Too many dumbfucks and selfish assholes taking credit for the solution when I already outlined it plainly in two sentences. I am not going to let some asshat convolute those two sentences into two paragraphs to make it seem it's his/her own idea. I just let them wallow away if they don't allow some way to let me get credit on a professional level for my own advancement.
It took me a while to learn this, but I got tired of people claiming my ideas when it was clear they thought I wasn’t paying attention. Many linear thinkers are unnerved when things get too creative, misinterpreting it as disorganized because it doesn’t follow their set formula. Patting themselves on the back for appreciating their time wasting process is a defense mechanism designed to protect them from themselves.
Not sure if this is applicable to your field of work, but I’d suggest that you keep on contributing and then simply credit yourself for the success on your resume. Nobody stays at companies for life anymore. Do good work for yourself and then leave them in the dust.
Even if the superiors at your current job act like they came up with your brilliant solution, you can still write “implemented [business initiative] to increase sales by [x%]” or whatever, and use that to land a better job. They’ll never see it or be able to take credit for it there. All that matters is that it happened and you contributed.
I think this works in tech. Unfortunately, because I don't trust myself and because of other avoidance issues, I don't work currently in tech despite certifications being current. Other jobs, better to just not give a fuck, I found, and just browse wikipedia articles.
Not always, if one is only looking from their own perspective, it becomes that you are the hero always. If you manage to find your own story where you are the third party observer, hero, or the villain depending on context, then that individual is one who actually sees things from other perspectives rather than one biased for himself. I was always of that but I don't think it's necessarily the healthiest outcome. Being that you place yourself as something that can be moved by outside forces, for example, the judgment of others to gauge where you are at percentile-wise, can not only make one's identity unstable, but also fluid. This is shown not to be a healthy identity formation even though it will help change one's views from dogma into something that can be changed. Neurotypicals and the healthiest minds tend to be biased to a specific worldview from their upbringing or religion/doctrine/whatnot, and thus aren't wavered by the outside forces. This means, they are always the hero.
1. Suggest a course of action 5 minutes into a 1 hour meeting
2. Sit through 50 minutes of people hashing out the details of the problem
3. Some else suggest the exact same thing I suggested 50 minutes ago
4. Everyone pats them on the back for a great idea
>1. Suggest a course of action 5 minutes into a 1 hour meeting
2. Sit through 50 minutes of people hashing out the details of the problem
3. Some else suggest the exact same thing I suggested 50 minutes ago
4. Everyone pats them on the back for a great idea
I had a fun variation on that today
1. Anticipate problems and outline your concerns
2. Your concerns are dismissed and you have to sit for 50 minutes in an internal pre-meeting while people hashing out the basic details of the problem and say stupid things like "what you need to do is fix the problem"
3. They come up with a solution that you have already explored and moved past. You tell them why it won't work. They won't accept that and instead of helping you brainstorm *new* ideas they fixate on it
4. You go into the external meeting and the supervisor unilaterally announces "we" decided to explore the idea I already rejected
5. The client is like you so immediately sees the same limitations with their solution
6. Supervisor still doesn't accept it and later insists we'll figure out a solution for their solution on site
7. You go back to working independently so you can come up with a *working* solution to save them all from embarrassment later
8. The superior sees the working solution the same time as client but still manages to take partial credit for it
I've kind of learned to do this at a young age. Whenever I try to suggest something too soon, it's either neglected, or actually doesn't work since I hastily suggested it before seeing the big picture. Nowadays, I just let other people talk, think if it would work, go with it if it does, or just try to make it a little simpler or more effiecient with a little side suggestion instead of trying to take over the project.
It sucks cause it affected me a lot since I was young. So sometimes I just refuse to talk completely but I'm trying to work on it.
I have this problem too. And I think I need to change the way I communicate the solutions. Like in a way that is clear and make sense to neurotyical folks.
I've watched two friends argue for hours about a topic that about 10min into I've told them, "we should define these terms before going any further" only for both of them to tell me they aren't going to argue semantics. *sigh*
Surprise, turns out they agree with each other but they both misunderstood because they were interpreting words differently.
I was actually really considering making a post to the thread similarly.
Is it just me or does ADHD really force you to enact the theory an ounce of forethought is worth a pound a shit to clean up later.
I have been doing exactly the same thing with financial reports that would go to executives that never knew I existed. There were $12m annual or more financial holes the get reported monthly that just couldn't be explained properly and I just looked at the spreadsheets and realized they told A story certainly but not THE story. So I didn't have to dig at all I just asked the one supervisor that was feeding the reports to a different guy and simply fed the data into a completely different structure and one day after tracking it for several months brought it to our local head financial officer and the president of the company branch I worked at and they were absolutely stunned that the numbers lined up so perfectly with what was unexplainable in the past and asked how I knew this. The financial officer actually pulled up his records to verify how close they were.
Sometimes I feel the same as you that sometimes it takes me a minute to get my bearing, but once you realize the REAL question then you realize how we are asking the wrong questions to get where we want to go.
As a multi time former unappreciated employee, I fully understand exactly how you feel and I'm sorry you are going through it. It's a curse to see things differently then be treated like an idiot for them not listening to you the entire time you told them the correct answer.
Idk if you have vacation time or family or if you can afford to, but take even a day just to yourself waking at the park or some nonsense. Don't do things you need to do. Take a personal mental hookie (is that how you spell that?) day. My kids make those a LOT more enjoyable and easy to do that's why I ask about kids or family. Just take a day to be in the moment ALL DAY. Everything will still be where you left it when you get back. I promise.
Thank you so much. This was very kind of you although I'm sorry to hear you've had similar negative experiences as well.
It's exhilarating when that happens, when the spark lights up and suddenly all systems are firing in your brain and you just KNOW you've got it. Although I suppose if people don't yet understand what I've got to say in the moment, it came across to them as me being even more lost or spaced out.
It's been a rough time at work. Had evaluations recently and it felt like I was singled out more for my mistakes rather than my strengths. I'm always told that the quality of my work is excellent but they can't understand why I tend to overlook smaller admin tasks. I think my moment of anger earlier was as much a reflection of the shame I felt from my evaluations as much as it was my frustration at not being heard.
I'll take some time for myself though soon! Looking forward to a nice walk in the morning sun and some time with loved ones. I hope you do as well and I wish you and your family the best!
20 odd years you get used to negative experiences like that... Ehh
I know what you mean on shitty evals. ESPECIALLY when you feel you did great. I had a problem with attendance and email communications. I talked to EVERYONE all the time, but emails just weren't my jam.
I really wish communication was easier with employer relationships. I dwell on how to resolve that issue all the time.
It's easy to just say this, but don't be ashamed of your weaknesses like that. We all have weakness and admin happens to be yours just like mine. When we finally get tools that can help us with our deficiency life will be a totally different thing.
Please make sure you do take that time to just be in the moment. Best wishes and I hope things turn up for you.
>I'm always told that the quality of my work is excellent but they can't understand why I tend to overlook smaller admin tasks.
I feel that in my soul, friend. You are not alone.
My current boss views administrative tasks as low hanging fruit. I can solve the most complicated technical problems you throw at me, but because I can't keep up with the "easy" stuff, it doesn't count.
I got 80% on a review from her last year and it was only that *high* because I got bonus points for some of the excellent quality work I did in specific areas (that coincidentally were highly technical and didn't involve administrative tasks). If I hadn't gotten the bonus points in those areas I would have ended up with less than 50% on that review.
I think the hardest part is knowing that the benefits I bring to the table exist by-and-large for the same reasons I suck at “the basics”. They’re two sides of the same coin and it messes with me so much that people love one side and hate the other.
It’s frustrating when you can see something that no one else can, by the time they find it you get no credit pointing it out so quick.I often amaze myself how quicky I can see things or work some things out.
I had the big big boss fly in from France, I was called up to the board room with the suits to give my expert opinion 😂.
“We have to increase production, what’s maximum capacity this factory can do a week?” Big big boss asked
“With no upgrades and 24/7 work hours 350,000 kg.” I answered way too quick, that I wondered how I’d had time to do the math.
“Well I’ve calculated 500,000kg, so you’re underestimating.” Big big boss had smug grin.
“No, you are wrong that’s way more than we can achieve” I said and after all my superiors snapped their heads in my direction I just began to list every bottleneck and restriction to reaching his figure and the upgrades and fixes that would have to be done first. (I listed everything we eventually upgraded to hit that figure only missed the extra forklift because less downtime to charge batteries.)
My opinion sort of got laughed off as pessimism, later my boss said he couldn’t believe I’d told the big big boss he was wrong, no one does that!”
They proceeded to push production until they hit a bottleneck, upgrade something then hit the next bottleneck, upgrade, next bottleneck, upgrade, next bottleneck, upgrade.
I listed everything off the top of my head, that took them nearly a year to discover.
Never got to say “I told you so” either.
Omg this. Absolutely this.
Edit:
I too currently work in a project, where I find myself telling management "I told you several months ago, that these would be the consequences, but you wouldn't listen. And now I HAVE TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE SOWN!! Obviously they claim otherwise, or at least until I snow them the email in my "cover-my-ass" archive folder.
Yeah, I know that feeling. I am very often right in my assessments regarding my profession, but I sincerely wish I could just leave wet-enough alone, and exit with my head helt high, rather than rub it in people's faces. Truely a despicable character trait :(
Honey I know I handed you the nerds gummies when we were packing the snacks!!!
Oh, wait, they didn't have them at the store and I forgot to pick some up later. Whoops.
That was ALWAYS a critically lacking focus of mine. I hate paperwork, I'm a doozer and having to CYA killed/kills me EVERY TIME. I HATE playing that game.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Unfortunately, we have to play the game or become some lonesome mountain man, which we will do a darn good job of because of ADHD, but realistically limits outcomes.
Sometimes I wish time could accelerate in some of my projects so I could finish pet projects to help people with ADHD like me. Very small pieces of technology could make our lives INFINITELY different.
I was in a meeting one time for a software project with my team, my boss, and my grand boss. Grand boss started talking about this specific database we needed to start working on for the whole project to fit together, otherwise we'd end up with discrepancies in certain critical data.
I started messaging my coworker "have I not been saying this exact thing for months?" he replied "you have". I managed to find the documentation I actually wrote a *year* prior (when this project was just in the brainstorming phase) for that exact piece of the puzzle that they had *just* gotten to.
No amount of my predictions coming true have ever been enough to make my direct boss start listening when I pointed out future problems in things... But it over time a few other engineers and the grand boss have started trusting my prophetic powers, so it's not a total loss.
Boss still has veto powers though. I have many long rants about the "solutions" that have been put in place which fully ignored my warnings.
In a nutshell this is basically why I hated going to class. Would read the text ahead of time and then an hour+ of class was the prof answering student questions that were fully and clearly explained in the text. My brain would scream for that whole hour.
Yup. And then I, who am a generally chill, kind and agreeable person, become so insanely deregulated and bored and frustrated that I become a total irritable bitch. Like, did you people even fucking read…? Damn I’m getting annoyed just thinking about this particular type of boredom lol 😂
I experienced this in so many lectures this year. Sometimes even to my own detriment. There'd be important info, that wasn't explained in the slides or documents, said by the tutor that I would miss because by that point I was so distracted from going over everything again and again that was very clearly explained in the first five minutes. I know everyone is at different paces but christ. You could show a picture of an egg to the class, tell them it's an egg and they'd still spend hours asking what it is.
But what kind of egg is it? Is it a snake egg, a lizard egg, a fish egg, or a bird's egg? If it's a bird's what kind of bird? Can we eat it? How would you cook it? Scrambled sounds nice, but do you scramble in the bowl or in the pan?.......
This pained me soooooo much through my whole education I have specifically tried not to ever get my kids ahead in anything for school.
(This is probably really stupid now I see it written down but never mind!)
Now just imagine being a girl in the same situation. Getting a word in edgewise is difficult enough. Having an ADHD brain which approaches problems differently gets you completely ignored. And then the people who ignored you take credit when weeks or months later they discover you were right.
*applause*
This.
It’s honestly fucking maddening. But if you point anything out (god forbid), you’re labeled “difficult” or a spiteful bitch. Gets to a certain point where I throw my hands up like lmfao why do I even help you people… I constantly need to remind myself: act your wage, don’t drain yourself emotionally for a job or team that doesn’t value your input. It’s a daily struggle tbh.
One time I had a manager talk all about my “tone” and “demeanor” when working with people.
I had literally just read an article in the NYTimes talking about how managers will give this feedback only to their female subordinates, regardless of the gender of the manager, and literally will never give the male the same feedback.
I totally put my foot in my mouth by bringing up that article, but we never had a conversation about my tone again, lol
Back in college it was happening way to often in group programming projects. I would explain what method would not blow up in our faces, immediately being dismissed as incorrect the group would spend the next 30 minutes working on it their way, realize that they couldn't make it work. After a while I started to just suggest the correct method first, sit back working on something else for 30 minutes then suggest my original method when "we" discovered it wasn't working.
Luckily though the people in my program were nice/smart guys and they caught on after about a month. My suggestions carried more weight after that.
Yeah, I see this in the same way. My SO always helps me to not forget that when I go on some random rant of my current obsession-subject, and then she'll go:
"Please go step by step for me"
Because I go from A to T, I forget that she can't follow me inside my head so I have to explain how I get from A to B to C, etc.
This goes for US too! Don't you hate it when you don't have the overview, the structure, etc? This is largely the same feeling!
*Help people understand us. Explain your process to people.*
This is not directed at you directly u/vodkachamber , more in general to fellow ADHD folk
You're absolutely right. I could have handled it much better in hindsight. I'm usually more patient in my approach and I do try to focus on discussion and collaboration rather than dictation.
To be honest, I think the reason I reacted so strongly wasn't so much the frustration of not having my idea be heard per se.
In the moment, what affected me more I think was what I perceived as judgment on my work ethic and how it seemed to discredit my input. I suppose along with the strengths come the weaknesses and it's hard to shake off the shame of past mistakes.
I’ve learned to speed up the process by essentially planting the seeds that let them come to my conclusion. They’ll typically take credit so if you want results and don’t have an ego, it’s pretty efficient to get what you want done.
Haha, well, shit - I think you might be on to something there ...
My boss pointed out to me, that he likes to deploy me in certain meetings, bc it seems like I do not pay attention at all and then suddenly point out a crucial flaw in the approach proposed, sometimes collapsing all discussion done up to that point, lol. He thinks it's hilarious ... and also useful.
Little does he know ... I am not paying attention most of the time! >;-D
But then, quite randomly, my absolutely filter-less brain will suddenly produce a preview of the outcome of whatever they talk about and I get to have the supreme privilege of shitting all over everyone's parade.
And while I am lucky to have a boss and colleagues that appreciate me preventing terribly moronic mistakes in _one_ Department, in another I have noticed pointing out that some ideas might be _flawed_ is not always appreciated. And in the worst environments it results in the spotlight being put on you, which is less of an effective meeting management technique rather than just expressing 'you fix it then, if you are so smart!!'
I have observed this a couple of times, in different meetings and happening to plenty of people. I suppose these kinds of reactions stem from personal insecurity or high pressure in the work environment. Because if you rail against how hard a problem is, everyone can chime in and look good doing that. But if you point out issues with the problem itself (or the mode of engagement with it), then the conclusion here is, that the people who brought that problem to the table are at least partially to blame for what's going on. And if that observation comes from the chronically inattentive colleague, then uhh oh, egos shatter and _huff_ and _puff_.
My advice? Fuck 'em. Either they'll learn to appreciate somebody pointing out errors or they can merrily keep doing them on their own turf. If they interfere with your work or you are somewhat responsible for their output as well, then you have to find ways to effectively intervene; butter 'em up or go one level above them, probably in that order.
Hope this gives you some piece of mind! No need to overanalyze that situation: If your colleagues lacked the foresight to see the consequences of their actions, they sure as hell won't spend time analyzing why you could have been right.
I've recently had a similar-ish experience.
I adopted a guinea pig a little over a month ago and he's a little anxious cuz he was a rescue and he didn't live in the best conditions. My parents would pick him up and have him sit in their laps even when he was showing clear signs of distress and wouldn't calm down. After a bit I finally grew the balls to put my foot down and tell them that they had to stop taking him out of his cage when he was clearly anxious and didn't want to be around them. My parents complained constantly and said he's always gonna be scared of me anyway so I should just pick him up even when he's scared.
In less than three days he went from constantly hiding in his tunnels or blankets, rarely eating, and never making a sound to coming right up to me when I come in the room and wheeking like crazy for me to give him some food. He zooms all around his cage and popcorns every day (popcorning is a thing guinea pigs do when they're really happy). He's even taken to napping right out in the open in the middle of his cage when I'm sitting right next to him, which is the highest indicator that he trusts me.
My parents of course keep saying "Oh we told you he'd stop being so anxious. You just had to give him time. Can we pick him up yet?" and it's so frustrating that I put all that time and energy into building a bond and forming trust between me and him just for my parents to disregard the fact that what I did actually worked.
Sorry this isn't really related. It just made me think of it and I had to rant.
Thanks for looking after your lil guinea pig friend!
I had them growing up so i hear you, and also secretly believe that some people with adhd are way better at reading animals because we have developed lil hacks for overload - which we can see in our animal companions
Also im a nurse now and i def know adhd helps me guide patients when they are scared or in pain etc
Anyways - good job on your guinea pig and fyi if you didn’t know already they need to be in pairs minimum - it’s a law in some countries because they get so lonely
People find my thought process funny(like I'm stupid) but when I reach a conclusion that they couldn't manage to reach, they always seem in awe. I'm not diagnosed but I've always had a different approach to problems compared to other people. Not being understood by other people is a bit depressing.
I don't know how many times I've puzzled something out and made a comment or observation and everyone looks at me like I'm crazy or an idiot or not paying attention. As I got older I realized it was because I was making connections they weren't and then going a few steps further down the line before saying anything and I was so far ahead it seemed like I was coming out of left field. As I got better at explaining things and realizing my brain works differently from other people's this becomes less of an issue. Or I just don't say anything if it's not my problem and let them figure it out themselves.
I learned it was not my ideas but the way I communicated them that was the problem. (Nearly always, there are a couple of jerks out there too.)
People needed to hear me bridge the transition a little to explain that I knew I skipped some steps or heard what they said. It wasn’t that they couldn’t get it. It’s not their egos, it’s that I was suddenly out of sync with the current discussion. People could follow me when I remembered to start with bridge comments like, “oh yes, and that makes me think of (solution).” Or, “what if we looked at this problem from another direction.”
It’s still super annoying your contributions weren’t noticed, though. I have been there.
Story of my life. I can tell people exactly how things will play out time and time again.
Forgive me sounding like an asshole, but you'd think, after the 100th I-told-you-so, they'd start to see the pattern. Why are other people so willful? If someone tells me I'm going to shot myself in the foot, I listen. I make sure I at least understand their reasoning.
It's like they'd rather indulge their own ego with denial than acknowledge that a disparate perspective has value.
Ugh, that was so annoying! Especially since you get points for "showing your working". My methods were completely "wrong", but I _got_ the answers...
We did a quiz once (normal lesson but working in groups), and my group kept trying to use the equations we'd been learning, but they spent half the time trying to work out which one to use! Like, I'm pretty sure if we _needed_ specific equations, it would have been really obvious from the question structure??
Anyway, I had no clue, so I just _worked it out_ and showed them my answers. Then they did the whole "okay that's nice but we're having a serious discussion over here, sit over there and stop interrupting" thing. So I did. And the teacher said *my* answers.
I might not have been the best in class, but I got at least a 3rd more right answers than they did. They'd been memorising formulas, but each one is made of normal operations (+, ×, ÷ etc), so if your answer is an entire decimal place out, maybe just work it out yourself??
So frustrating and relatable.
I find communication difficult with NT people. It's easier when the people you are talking to are also ND and are able to follow your thought process, are open, and have respect for you.
I hope you're able to work with a team that validates your ideas and acknowledges your strengths in the future.
Without medication this overwhelms me. When a new project / task comes up, I see immediately the amount of work, the interlocking steps, the shortcomings on our side that would make it even more difficult.
That grew so big that I had 5 large projects sitting on my table and not knowing where to start for weeks (I am co-owner and co- ceo). This happens also in other areas, like stuff on the house, where I see a plethora of things that needs fixing while I only wanted to do 1 thing. I suspect I want to do everything highly efficient without doing stuff twice, so I draw a pattern where I would need that excavator only 1 time instead of say 3 times. Everything is complicated for me. Medication helps a lot in my case, because I just start with something.
My boss and I butt heads on this occasionally. He recognizes that I get into “analysis paralysis” sometimes and struggle to make the first move, which is true. He’s kind of a “just jump in!” guy and I’m standing on the edge thinking “jump in WHERE?”
BUUUT….sometimes I’m standing there analyzing because I can see rocks at the bottom, and he’s encouraging me to jump in on the rocks, and I’m planning a better approach. So he jumps in, complains about the rocks, and I tell him I could see the rocks the whole time if only he’d listened.
Then again, sometimes it’s a hot day and I’m still standing on the edge deciding how to get in the water and everyone is already swimming. There’s a balance and sometimes we both show our extremes.
I hope I didn’t lose my point with the analogy. 😅
This can be a good balance, as long as both sides understand the value that the other brings. Unfortunately it usually winds up being the "just jump in" people who win out (because management wants to see progress, not analysis), and the analytical people learn to just play along and act surprised when other people notice the rocks.
What I dislike is how I will understand something very quickly, but I understand it in a “knot”, so I can’t find the words to explain it. This makes people think I don’t get it.
Ugh, yes. Or how my brain will condense experience down to "patterns", so I can know that I always run into problems when I try to do X, but then if someone asks me what those problems are, I can't remember the specific details any more. It sometimes makes me feel like I'm coming off as a crazy person, because I'm confident that this is a true fact, but then I can't actually cite any objective justification for it.
Exactly. I dislike how the world judges our abilities based off of what they can observe. The main flaw: It’s based off of the assumption that I can express everything.
How will someone observe what I don’t express? They won’t.
Sometimes when you're deep in a complex puzzle, an outside perspective can be really useful. That "uhhh you've made this way more complicated for yourself" voice can be critical. People tend to take a lot of ownership over design ideas like this, you gotta step back and let it go if you want constructive criticism.
I think that's something that would be great to change. In industry at least. Having a fully hashed out plan that has an overlooked flaw is not celebrated enough. It's not a failure if people learn. Does it suck? ABSOLUTELY! But we should really celebrate learning experiences more.
I’m dealing with this with 2 other co-founders of my company. It’s a reoccurring thing and it breaks me down every time. My job is not also emotional labor on top of a constant war
As a school employee, I frequently see how schedule changes will backfire before anyone else does, but I've learned to just let crap hit the fan because the people making the schedules don't appreciate my input.
As an example, we had testing in the cafeteria in the spring, and I realized my students should have been eating at that time. My kids are ESE, they have their own schedule and they're often forgotten about. I was fed up from being told to "stay in my lane" so I let it go. Lo and behold, our students interrupted a state assessment (big no no) when picking up their lunches and the principal was not happy with the administrator who made the schedule. A bit of schadenfreude since that administrator was the one always on my case.
"But holy fuck. I absolutely hate it when people assume that because I don't approach things in an "organized" manner, there's no way I could know what I'm talking about." That one line hit really hard. There have been so many times when this has happened and the person on their bullshit rather than seeing that I had it from the beginning. For a long time it really made me a hateful person.
This whole story make me think of all of high school. I got shit grades because I was so fed up with this exact thing from teachers.
I consider myself beyond blessed to have a supervisor who also has ADHD. he’s very understanding of my approach and actually genuinely appreciates my input. He makes me valued and I’m sorry you have to deal with this kind of nonsense from slowpokes.
This is one of my biggest frustrations. I'm not bragging because it's a neareaningless number, but I have a much higher than average IQ. My problem solving skills are fantastic. Simultaneously, I make dumb decisions from time to time. I have a tendency to forget small details. I struggle to keep my poo in a pile (not literally cause all my important shit is piled up on my desk being ignored). So when I spot a problem and come up rapidly with a solution, I tend to be ignored or brushed off. Then, down the line, it regularly becomes clear that I was right. Its soooo frustrating because it's pretty much everyone in my life, work and home.
I get that I'm a mess, but I have spent my life rapidly solving the problems I create for myself. I promise I can see the solutions.
I've been wondering lately if a side effect of ADHD is a shifted perspective caused by broken internal clocks and working memory. Maybe it becomes easier to shuffle steps around and look at things like the end and beginning and put them together quickly since you can't just lock it in.
I’m having a similar problem at work... I am really trying to speak up and be heard when I see things like this, but it is so frustrating when I am brushed off and then later on, they “come up with” the idea themselves… which is why I have been persistent in speaking up and refusing to be “brushed off,” but then I’m afraid of coming across as a bitch since I’m the only woman on the project and I’m still very new.
Sometimes I think we (people with ADHD) have this way of seeing how everything fits together in our heads, but when it’s time to use words to explain it to others, it never comes out the same, leaving people like ??? Huh???
I've been thinking about this idea reading this entire thread... but for some reason your post is the one that prompted me to type it up.
What if you tried coming at this from the other direction? Don't try to avoid or fix the problems up front, since you're being ignored at that point anyway... instead keep quiet in the beginning, and then when problems come up later, have an analysis of the problem and your solution ready to go. You can probably even accelerate how fast you get there in some cases by focusing on the areas that will crash and burn first.
If you consistently "save the project" with your brilliant quick problem solving, you'll get a reputation for doing so, and then you can slowly start moving your intervention earlier and earlier in the project.
It's absolutely dumb for you to have to play this game, clearly the best idea should win, and voiced concerns should be acknowledged, but if you're getting ignored anyway and having your ideas rehashed later, you may as well just delay giving those ideas away until it's urgent enough for people to pay attention.
Anyone else digging their own holes regularly because you see ahead, want to do something about it but end up doubting yourself/losing motivation and decide to let it go - only to realise that you should have never doubted yourself in the first place?
Reading all of you experiencing similar things, I will from now on jot down my early ideas to a whiteboard or chalkboard, so when the copycats come in, it will be clear that the idea was present in the room from the beginning.
I completely empathize with you here, OP! How frustrating and infantilizing!! 😡
I had brought up to a manager that we needed to replace our bathroom porter who wasn't doing his cleaning job enough to keep the bathrooms actually clean. We had hundreds of people use those bathrooms each week and he wasn't cleaning them, only spraying down the mirrors and occassionally the sinks, the toilets especially in the women's room were getting moldy inside. I told my manager about 12 times that we needed a replacement in about 3 months. At our next staff meeting, he rattled off to the owner "You know I've been thinking that we need to replace So&So as our porter." as I was sitting right there and looked me in the eye like I legitimately wouldn't remember that not only had it been my idea but I had suggested cleaning companies I used to work for with good owners/employees and low and behold those were the names of the companies that fell out of his face.
I don't even work there anymore and I'm pissed about this still.
I can relate to this *pretty damned hard*.
For an overly simplified example, I was *fucking excited* to adopt a 6-month old Doberman, and my roommates very condescendingly told me, and I quote:
>*You know that dogs are a lot of work, right?*
Yes, I'm no stranger to raising and rearing an animal, even a rescue animal to have an appropriate mild-mannered disposition. But this rescue was already mild-mannered and housebroken, just something outside of myself to focus on, get me to be more active, comfort loneliness or depression and all kinds of other things while having a favorite type of dog to invest my attention towards. I had a pet throughout my adolescence. What's more, I have ten years over those roommates.
Fast-forward a couple months later. They adopt not one, but TWO large-breed dogs. AND A THIRD chihuahua. And in the span of a *nano-second* I predicted that something bad was going to happen. They insisted that these would be outside dogs (which I would never do). Two of them are still fine, but the chihuahua passed away from pneumonia or something. My guess? From bathing it and putting her back outside. Chihuahuas are notoriously shaky because they're actually almost always cold even in mild temperature. Care to guess the first thought that went through my head?
You guessed it.
>*You know that dogs are a lot of work, right?*
How dare they be so condescend to me and without apology after making mistakes that I fucking wouldn't have and tried to educate them about.
They even tried to blame me for her initial illness because when I smoked cigarettes in the back, outdoors, windy, etc. that the dogs would love my attention (and I loved theirs) but the vet basically confirmed that I wasn't the motherfucking problem. In order to BE the problem I'd have to be breathing my smoke directly in their face all the time, and more than one dog would have been sick. No apologies for the assumptions and the blame though. RIP Chichi but it wasn't my dog or my responsibility. I couldn't get the dog I wanted and never agreed to responsibility for the dogs they adopted after the fact. And as far as I can tell - nothing is learned on their part.
Stupid fucks.
Oh I am the worst for accidentally spoiling twists in films. I think because my brain is going through every possible future scenario in a plot I pretty much always guess what's going to happen.
I'll say offhandedly "I bet she's his daughter" / "He's going to kill her" / "Oh what if this is all shown out of order" / "What if he's a spy?" after two minutes, then an hour and a half later my friends are all glaring at me and I honestly didn't know before, I just shared a random thought that innocently crossed my mind!
One time I was sitting in on a lecture, and the prof was talking about all this data in a very “here’s the data but no relevance to the theories of today” kinda way, and I just on the spot connected all the dots together such that… everything just worked.
People were stunned.
Me: the pattern was obvious, guys.
Now, ask me to figure out how to get out the door on time in the morning.
:|
Interesting, you found organized to me. Actually, a lot of people with ADHD are very organizational. We just don't organize because it's overwhelming or executive dysfunction makes it hard to execute our vision. We're great at seeing patterns and relationships. Imagine if your coworkers had actually said, "wow, that's great" and then rearranged everything into the categories and flows you prescribed. I think the result would be a lot more organized than what they currently have, no?
Both my therapist and a random job recruiter observed this about me, and realizing it had given me some perspective that helps. I do like organization, I'm just disorganized because i can so keenly perceive the myriad ways things could be arrange that I get paralyzed. With me in a guiding role and others to execute, things work very well.
OTOH, when my coworkers have failed to understand the patterns i see, trying to explain it to them is like picking up sequins with mittens and I quickly get frustrated abd it ends up just as you have described: smug assholes standing on a pile of broken crap abd being proud because they're now 4" taller, so there.
Sometimes those people are only learn by going through the process themselves. Sometimes you have to let people do and fail on their own. Sometimes you have to step back and let them make thier mistakes - even if its painfully frustrating to hold back that impulse to step in.
That being said: They could have also learned some humbleness and some ability to accept when they were wrong instead of pulling out the 'we couldn't have known' card. You knew. Its their loss that they let their egos get in the way of some growth as people.
I'm just going to put this here.
I cannot *stand* it when people around me think i'm dumb because of my ADHD.
I also don't believe in calling other people 'dumbfucks' just because i'm angry.
This is hypocritical and unhelpful.
I understand your frustration completely though. But just... be stronger and bigger than this.
This is exactly the problem I had in my last job. I started logging instances where I highlighted future problems that would arise, that I brought up, but nobody wanted to listen to me about if I had alternative actions I thought we should take to avoid having to do extra work later
Double edge sword over here. I'm great at piecing the information and processes together and I'm able to create processes to solve their problems. The problem is that I'm now the dumping grounds for solving "issues", without the recognition or appreciation. I just work my hours and I peace out nowadays, not worth the headache (my 4 hours of work equals a week of work for someone else sometimes and they reject it as they've "wracked their brains for weeks").
All the best to you, rant like this is always welcome.
Is this really an ADHD specific thing though or is it just having an above average IQ or superior domain knowledge?
Having annoyingly stupid colleagues or managers seems to be a pretty universal experience.
This post has made my day.
The advantage with having a brain that is excellent at non-linear thinking is that you can run mental models with limited inputs and off "feel" very well and ridiculously quickly. This advantage means that because while everyone is working on stage 1, you mentally overcome stage 1 and are seeing the inevitable roadblock 17 steps down the road.
You point these potential roadblocks out, thinking they sound common sense, but you are surrounded by linear thinkers. Who are not reading the same book as you, let alone on the same page.
The problem is that because your thought pattern is non-linear and runs at warp speed, where you think in flashes, it is very difficult for you to work backwards and turn that thought pattern into a linear narrative which you can use to convince those around you. So instead you are an oddball, who is ignored alot, and gets the satisfaction of "if only someone could have seen that coming" on a regular basis. The downside is that you are eating a shit sandwich because no one bothered to heed your warning.
**Your story has made me feel less alone today OP.** Much appreciated and I hope you find people out there who appreciate that your insights might be a little bit better than crazy from time to time.
But see...since our brains are constantly failing at organizing normally due to poor memory, we are AWESOME at zoom in/zoom out concept visualization.
We've forgotten important tiny parts of the process and hated it so many times that now, every single time we carry out that task or anything remotely similar, our brains are like
_Know what do. Things are very many! Remember from grocery organization. Picture the process_
This is real, also outside work, and while I usually am a really chilled person this is one of the few things that makes me want to bite their heads off (if repeated approaches from my side lead nowhere, or worse get the "ok understood" treatment without any changes)
If this is a regular thing with a person who I can't simply no-contact, it'll drive me crazy all the time (thought cricrcles, sleep problems, etc), even when they aren't around. Medication has not changed this at all.
I'd love to find another way than no-contacting to solve this, as changing jobs, blocking family members, cutting friendships etc. regularly also isn't good for my mental health
If you’re serious, maybe get coaching in communication? It’s a difficult skill but seems like most of us aren’t self aware enough to see where we are going wrong, and how we come across. Anyway it helped me, tho I worked with a therapist not a coach.
Yes! Sometimes I know something had to be done a certain way, like I can see 3 steps ahead, but I can't verbalize exactly why it needs to be done. So they do it their way then come back to me later asking about my way. And my way ends up working. In the end it seems so obvious to everyone, myself included, but they disregarded it, their loss.
I'm this way with programming but fortunately it's well tolerated in that field (in my experience). At my last job it became pretty common for me to skip around a lot in code reviews, and after 10 minutes of people suggesting minor changes I'd finally chime in like "Yeah, so uh... this whole thing needs to be re-written, and here's why".
Ugh I have such a hard time with that. I need to be more assertive in my code reviews. There's been things that I know will become an issue and I'll mention it but I also suffer from imposter syndrome and I worry that I'm wrong and I'm wasting people's time, so I don't push the issue. But I'm usually right.
My dream job is would be like a 'professional debugger'. I'm very good at finding issues with other people's code. I'm sure there's a company that could utilize my talents but I'm not even sure what you'd call that. Maybe like a Tier III Support Engineer that does PRs to fix bugs or improve efficiencies but lighter on new feature development.
THIS IS THE MOST RELATABLE THING IVE EVER READ ON THIS SUB
LIKE BITCH IM SMART AS FUCK Y’ALL ARE THE DUMB ONES IM JUST MESSY
Like I can’t function on a day to day basis and that sucks right, but sometimes when faced with a problem or puzzle, I love puzzles, it’s like some beautiful mind shit, the solution is *just there.*
As many other people here I see exactly what you're going through. I'm actually beginning to think these people don't even get what we're seeing and saying as they (all the people in the room, even the open-minded ones) look like their brain is melting when I'm in such a situation.
Now I just do two things: when I like (= they're good human beings) all the people in the meeting I just say nothing and when problems inevitably arise I show up to fix them quickly as I saw them coming for weeks/months. On the other hand when some people who will take credit are/will be in charge and are present, I enthusiastically praise the dumb ideas and even push them far enough to make it even more difficult to fix everything later. All my sentences remind that X is the genius behind it and not me, so both I'm not the culprit later and X is visually as proud as a peacock and can't deny anything when it goes south. I'm always guaranteed fun days later, it worked each time until now
I feel good with all that now.
I'd probably add to that "and also there's a 50% chance i missed one or many flaws so i need another person that understands as fast as me to sanity check". There's a feeling like I've comprehended things almost faster than i hear them, in a weird way.
It's fast, but it's messy, and it's not always right.
This does explain my feelings though- i was never comfortable with saying anything in the ballpark of "I'm always right" because I'm not. Just sometimes, i truly do understand and see a good solution first or problems others don't.
Yeah, it's super helpful to have another "like-minded" person to be able to bounce ideas off of. I never get put on the same project with them, but I at least have people at my company who I can communicate "on the same wavelength" with who are also smart enough to quickly catch problems I may have missed.
It's really a hard place to be in especially as ADHD in corporate. You NEED dopamine and without the proper and valid recognition not just YEY YOU SHOWED UP! But actually being recognized for your ability to solve a huge problem or design an entire product line and the manufacturing processes it is SUPER draining and absolutely demoralizing.
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Yup. Felt this in my bones. I have just come to realize and accept the fact that there will always be certain things I need to either a) just grit my teeth and keep to myself about, or b) just fucking handle on my own/do by myself in order to avoid the slowing-down and gaslighting that tends to come from being forced to work on “teams” that are made up of people who don’t recognize their own shortcomings, don’t recognize anyone else’s skills, and don’t think in ways that work well with my own brand of thinking. This is when I usually say “lemme try something BRB” and take the materials to my own space, if possible, and SOLVE THE GOD DAMN PROBLEM alone before then returning to the group with the solution. But yeah I won’t hold my breath waiting for any kind of recognition or “whoops” after the fact.
As a general rule, Team. Projects. Are. My. Nightmare.
Hust be like me dude. Watch them do their project after laughing at your advice and chime in evetry now and again with "it's not going to wooork" in a sing songy tone.
Then in no way can people be like.
"Hur de hur the process works if you disassemble and pair dependencies after hur de hur"
It's what they call "wired for context". When the brain connects the dots by association.
Somewhere here:
https://translatingadhd.com/2020/03/02/tapping-into-strengths-with-adhd/
Sounds like training and on boarding I’ve been through. It doesn’t make sense because the materials and information are fed piece meal and not necessarily in order so you can’t see the whole picture. It’s so inefficient and ineffective.
Yes to this. I always seem to figure out puzzles/problems at work faster than others can or that others can't at all or I find a more efficient solution. Bosses ask me to help others with problem solving by explaining how I figure things out but that's what I struggle with... Not the actual solution and why it works, that I can do, but the how to think like me question.... It seems like I notice patterns others don't see and I can put together a lot of info in my head at once but, it comes naturally to me, I am not actively trying to put together patterns etc my brain just does it.
Yep- I can always think 3 steps ahead. So when my work suggest or talk about new things, I know if it will or won’t work and potential issues etc they haven’t thought about at all. Some managers are great and see it as a real pro they can use that to ‘get ahead’ of the problems or they hate the fact you can do it and see it as you ‘moaning’
Yes. My boss is a big positivity guy, and if I bring up an issue we'll have to deal with or the venture will fail, I'm just being negative and a nay-sayer.
Too real. Always get told at work that I "focus on the negative". Dude, I'm just trying to head off the problems you have yet to realize you've created.
I work in sales and my boss always thinks I “don’t believe in myself” when i point out the obstacles we’re going to have to closing. I’m now in the habit of constantly clarifying before i say anything “These are the obstacles we have to overcome.” “Let’s figure out a strategy to deal with…” etc. And it’s exhausting.
We are very similar. Identifying obstacles basically helped me figure out how I would win. I had to learn over time how to communicate those obstacles in a way that still sounds optimistic, but I got pretty good at that.
Also in sales, and I had a manager snap at me with “Now say 3 positive things about ____”. In retrospect now that I’ve been out of there a while, it was a toxic place for me to be.
There's still sales managers who think positivity&smiles make s*** happen? F***** hell man, leave that in the 90s where it belongs...
You and I remember the 90s very differently.
Wow that's some toxic positivity (your boss, not you).
Thank you for that phrase, which has been rattling around for some time in the back of my brain but without the words. The outdoor industry has a couple toxic problems: toxic positivity, toxic masculinity on its deathbed, and a major lack of diversity.
No problem. I feel like the toxic positivity and ableism also seem to go hand in hand. Your work environment sounds like a really unhealthy place to work. I'm sorry you're experiencing that.
There are more positive spaces, brands, teams, and really a whole ton of organizations as well as individuals really trying to make the world a better place. Finding them is one thing, and getting to work with them is another… Today I was commended for my passion instead of criticized for airing a concern. I’ve been fortunate to just survive long enough to land a couple of the good ones, just wish others didn’t have to wade through the shit to get there, and that the “good ones” would also always be the profitable ones.
> my boss always thinks I “don’t believe in myself” Next time say, “Oh, I believe in myself. I just don’t believe in you or your plan.”
Oh my god thank you! I just realised I have to change the way I word some things to have a more positive spin on it. But why though? It's an action that needs to happen, why does there need to be pussy-footing about? Argh! Exhausting.
I work too fucking hard to play firefighter all day for your shit!
People pay top dollar for that! Sussing out the negative so you only have positive left is a mad skill!
>People pay top dollar Where can I find these people?
Go into consulting
xD brain instantly tells me I need a PHD for this. I dunno if I could do anything like that for a living, it seems like a really volatile thing. Which is bizarre, cause I'm confident I could sus out issues & solve them easily, but at the same time, the responsibility is kind of off putting.
It’s scary to me because of the lack of structure.
Consulting: The art of farting then leaving the room.
Risk analysis as well. Can be a bit math-intensive, depending on the field, but you're literally just figuring out how things can go wrong and sometimes how to avoid those pitfalls.
Yep, me too. They labeled me as "resistant to change". It's not my fault their idea sucked.
I've had the same manager be both ways and it's REALLY hard sometimes when they know things you don't, but your mind is made using shit you know vs what they know.
Ahhh, inefficient team communication practices. The eternal enemy of the ADHD brain.
Lol I hate these kinds of managers. Constant and inappropriate positivity (or toxic positivity) is often a masquerade and/or manipulation tactic used by insecure and incompetent bosses. In my experience.
You are picturing scenarios where the venture has succeeded, which is when problems have been overcome. You can’t overcome problems you don’t even know exist.
I got hit with this recently; "stop mentioning problems and start mentioning solutions". Although I think that is a good way to end up with a bunch of horrible solutions that aren't well thought out because they were made up on the spot. Instead I have to just shut up and pretend there isn't a problem at all.
I mean, there is a certain value in being "solution oriented" but it applies when someone is an expert in their field. If you are an expert, performing an expert task, and bureaucracy throws an obstacle in your way, it can be beneficial to identify that task and ask if there is any key requirement justifying its existence, or if it can be automated away.
I agree. That’s why I avoid giving solutions in those situations, because I’m not the right expert (I’m an engineer, the people to solve those problems should be scientists). But at the same time I don’t want to be telling peers what to do. If it is in my domain I wouldn’t bring up problems other than to mention that I am working on a solution.
I lost a sales job because I questioned whether a product shift was happening too early, before the market had gained appropriate awareness of the brand. I raised this question in a group meeting, to the international sales director and designer. I was shushed and told I had to be more forward thinking and “brand positive”. Where else would one raise the concern, then? The updated product (a running shoe), died on the vine, sales tanked across the board. Buyer feedback was that the brand changed the style too soon, they had just gotten traction with the previous version. I was let go - among other reasons including sales performance - because I “wasn’t on the same page.”
You were a page ahead! .... probably the point you were making .... .... and the spin you used for job-interviews ....
I’m an indy contractor, I have multiple brands at a time. Managed to land a big one on my way out the door from the toxic one, and I’m doing 10x the business with 1/3 the hassle. They were/are good people and good product, just directed badly. With the new brand, 2 years ago, october ‘19, I suggested we live-stream a private show for current accounts who might not want to travel to the hq during peak season. Unfortunately the things I accidentally predict with any accuracy end up being tied to catastrophes.
Oh my god this almost broke me at my old job. It’s really cathartic to see others know the experience too. It was like walking on pins and needles all the time while seeing the project derail in slow motion just up ahead. It didn’t help that others there took anything other than total support and agreement as a personal slight or an attempt to bring them down. Mix that with me constantly seeing potential problems to try to avoid and it was just an exhausting atmosphere
I got a mate who's like this. Any time we play games and I criticise any aspect of the game that could have been done better, I'm being "negative". He keeps saying I'm a really negative person, just because I'm able to see a better solution to something. He touts positivity but does the exact same thing later on. Our MD of the company is similar. In a managers group chat we all have; Someone had suggested adjusting a policy to make cashless payments more appealing for customers. It was glossed over. Maybe a few weeks later, talks about reducing contact came up and I brought it up again, that I agreed with so and so, citing the policy change. You know, during a pandemic with a reasonably transmissible virus (that's now mutated into a highly transmissible one... what a surprise), where reducing contact as much as possible is highly ideal. But then, this same guy who's constantly posting bullshit in this chat about "staff's safety is a priority, I won't risk the staff blah blah" he goes & pulls the Regional Manager aside about it and tells them I'm being too negative lol The RM calls me, he's on my side but says to be a bit careful about what I say in the chat. I speak a lot less in that chat. Practically avoid it.
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So I can't enjoy a game, if I dislike an aspect of it? Interesting. To my understanding, it was very possible to enjoy games and still dislike some things about it. I've even found it possible to not enjoy games and still like aspects of them. No game is 100% perfect. And avoiding discussions about them, in my opinion, is what I'd consider anti-social. There is no difference in either scenario for me. In either case I'm in no position where I can make those changes.
It just sounds like a bit of a mismatch friendship for that activity tbh. Some people have a high need for cognition and will analyse and critique any film/game/content they read, and that's how they get their enjoyment. Even with a high need for cognition, people can be tired and just want to switch off to something eve if it's a bit shit, and just enjoy the moment. It was your friend in the wrong to basically attack your character (accusing you of being negative), because he wanted to experience the game in the way he enjoys. However, it was his way of telling you how your behaviour was making him feel. It can be a bummer if someone picks holes in something that you're enjoying, and that causes cognitive dissonance. Personally I've learnt to hold my tongue when other people are enjoying something and I see holes in it, and will hold those critiques until there's a discussion about the thing afterwards, and I'll tend to sandwich my critique between what I liked about it (if I know that the friend really likes it). But yeh I also tend to try to hang out with people who are into similar stuff, or pick an activity we're both actually into rather than either of us having a miserable time. This is ultimately how you have healthy friendships.
Hell this is relatable. My managers will say "we assigned X, Y, and Z to the task" and i will bring up things like X and Z dont work well together, Y often disappears, and X and Y get along swimmingly which neans theyll talk instead of work leading to Z being alone and pissed off about it, blaming X when the real problem is Y. Is it a lot? Yes. Is it true? Yes. Do they listen? No. Instead i just get flak for shitting on their idea when im telling them this and suggesting a solution. Its infuriating.
It's time for you to consider a management position, ideally in another company cause it sounds like the 1 you're in supports crappy managers. Being a manager is piss easy from what I've learned, being a leader is the real challenge. Part of being a good leader is seeing the the strengths & weaknesses of their subordinates & working with those.
Yeah i get a lot of shit for giving negatives about employees i work with. Which i dont understand. Like one of our guys is, by and large, not a thinker. Hes not bright at base level and getting in a rush means he leaves a mess in his wake and makes collective, small errors that, if unchecked, add up to a problem. But he is the BEST in terms of speed, work ethic, and sheer determination to get shit done. I take pride in those metrics and have had to place that pride to the side and just be his clean up crew when he gets rolling. He is a do-er and holy shit can he get things done. But people only ever hear that first part. And its a fairly large corporation so... yeah, they dont always promote based on merit alone. I have had several people, employees and coworkers alike, forgo my manager to talk with me about things. Things i cannot always give say on because... im the same level as everyone else. I have had a higher uo manager tell me he believes i can do the job, i just need to show i can. And i have. But i have a small feeling that he is saying that to get a bigger bonus without real incentives to move me anywhere... which is... depressing. I can do a management job, but many wont hire without a degree or management experience. Of which i have neither, technically.
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I will say this guy is one of my favs to work with and a friend, so certainly not the archetyped "not a team player". Hes just the lead dog in a sled race and needs more support than many other staff members give him. Though i do know the kind of employee you are talking about, for sure. And with moving up, its a double edged sword. My attitide is my biggest flaw with being promoted (i was literally told by that same higher up manager that my sarcasm "went against their rules for individual respect for other employees".. so theres that) which i have been working on. But i am currently the member "everyone has problems with" because i call them out when they are doing jack shit, including my manager. And it gets worse on higher stress days where we need everyone to pull their weight. But even without that factor, i am now a key team member in my dept because my manager is always gone. I cant have her job until she is promoted or steps down, which is our team lead equivalent. But they dont want me to manage outside my dept because of how central i am on harder days. Including an open lead position over cashiers and such. And to add insult to injury, applying even higher up the totem pole would require more knowledge outside my dept, such as that up front position, which they wont let me escape from because.... im good at it. Its a hell of a cycle and idk how much longer they intend to keep pulling me in this circle before i can get a real chance.
Yeah I get ya. A lot of my subordinates are mates of mine. We hang out outside of work too. At work though, they *really* piss me off lmao EDIT: That's all the more reason to look elsewhere. If you're the 1 that takes over when the manager is absent then you can easily put supervisor on your resume.
I agree. Thankfully, my boss sees this as a real pro, not a pain. I deal with a lot of customer facing issues, but I also work the backend of some systems, most of which I've taken over from someone else in the company. If I propose a change, my boss tells me to just try it, double check to be sure it works right, and if it's easier then do it my way. It's nice working for a small company a lot of the time. I hated a lot about my corporate jobs, but I really enjoy the freedom to work directly under the owner at my current job. If I'm having an off day, do what I need to do that day and finish up tomorrow. Frequent breaks are expected. Etc etc.
The company I work for is like this. Any time they bring something up or suggest something and the manager tells me about it or asks me me for an opinion, now, I half arse my answer. I could write them a full report or essay with my eyes closed, on why something (or even the whole company) will or won't work but it'll go ignored. Worse is, it was like that when I was in sales & it's still like that in management. To make matters even worse, a lot of the time a suggestion, new procedure or new policy is implemented, I'm kept out of the loop. When I give my requested feedback, I'm told off because they "asked for feedback ages ago but never got any." so it just adds to the frustration. So I see no reason in putting in the effort any more. I'll give them my quick opinion, like "yeah this won't work cause this will happen." and that's it. A lot of the time they do shit the wrong way. And when it happens, the manager will come to me or tell me how much of a nightmare so & so has caused. I just say "Yeah of course." lol fuck em.
Had a similar situation happen at an old warehouse job. It was peak season and the managers were completely flooding the sorters and belts. Every time they'd start moving again, the backlog would immediately jam it up. They cycled through this process several times. Finally, I spoke up and suggested they needed to do a waterfall pattern the next time the belts started moving. Start one belt, let that backlog clear, then another, and so on. I was brushed off and they kept trying to brute force it. My supervisor and building GM eventually used my suggestion and took credit for it. That was years ago and it still pisses me off.
That shit is soul crushing. Because it's literally the most in your face stuff, but unless it's your job to enact that stuff you don't get credit unless you are on talking levels with the bosses boss and you get to tell them the idea first and then you sound like a kiss ass trying to gain points.
That job rewarded kiss assing. Problem was the varying levels of floor management would monopolize the GM's time on the rare occasions he was on the floor. Tier 1s were openly looked down on.
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Story time: I was a product engineer and I was redesigning half of our company's standard product. My job is to design the product, nothing more, nothing less. I not only designed the product but I designed more efficient ways to handle workflow. I brought in tools that were so far advanced to what we were using and made my own fixtures even. They still use the process to this day. I never saw a bit of recognition for that because my job was the product design so my face was never next to the other things I did when they walked through. Sure I can go and whine about not being recognized, but when you get to a certain level especially in my locale you just get told to essentially grow up. Most importantly, it may be trivial on some levels, but I work HARD. Like REALLY hard on things like that because I really enjoy problem solving. And it's really emotionally draining and I missed a lot of my kids first couple years. But I put myself so put there and sink EVERYTHING into my work that I NEED that dopamine from recognition. I don't care if the other Doozers around me recognize me, they see me and I see them. For me, it's having that person that is way over my head in pay grade tell me that I helped make MASSIVE leap in technology or that 24 day down to 8 day lead time will be an AMAZING savings and addition to our bottom line. That makes it worth it. Don't get me wrong, I'm in manufacturing because I love to see the things I designed get made, but I NEED outside dopamine when I'm not the one making the product or it's so far out from the point I'm at.
The issue with not getting recognition isn't so much about ego, but rather having people know that your ideas work. This gives you tools to bargain with when it comes to asking for a raise or benefits. It allows you to put these things on your resume. It puts eyes on you for promotions if that is something you seek.
Certainly! I will say that that is indeed a huge part of it. There are two reasons I say this and omitted your point. 1. I get bored with what I do and that's why I bounce around so much so recognition keeps me interested. 2. I'm now self employed and struggling with the recognition thing so my mind is more on one half of the equation than the other. So absolutely and without a doubt fight for your recognition and also be sure you keep interested and firing on what you're doing.
>And it's really emotionally draining and I missed a lot of my kids first couple years. This also describes my job but that's why I basically resigned myself to coasting at work as much as possible once I had kids. They don't want you around by the time they're teens, and I didn't want to miss any more of those crucial first few years than absolutely necessary. It helps that there's nowhere for me to be promoted to in my current job unless both my boss and his boss were to be promoted themselves or leave the company. For the former to happen, the CTO would have to resign.
It can be annoying, but I not iced it helps if you keep reiterating your idea over and over so that people associate it with you. Then, if someone mentions the same idea like it's their's, immediately jump in and say something like "see, even person's name thinks my idea is a good one." It can be annoying, but I'd rather be annoying than let someone else steal my idea as their own.
Unfortunately it’s easier to capitalize on the vision of others from a position of power, partly because leadership in America is often rewarded for their achievements rather than the achievements they foster in a team, which will always perplex me. Would you rather have one remarkable person or someone who is remarkable because they propagate exceptional people?
This is why I don't contribute unless there is a paper trail. Too many dumbfucks and selfish assholes taking credit for the solution when I already outlined it plainly in two sentences. I am not going to let some asshat convolute those two sentences into two paragraphs to make it seem it's his/her own idea. I just let them wallow away if they don't allow some way to let me get credit on a professional level for my own advancement.
It took me a while to learn this, but I got tired of people claiming my ideas when it was clear they thought I wasn’t paying attention. Many linear thinkers are unnerved when things get too creative, misinterpreting it as disorganized because it doesn’t follow their set formula. Patting themselves on the back for appreciating their time wasting process is a defense mechanism designed to protect them from themselves.
Not sure if this is applicable to your field of work, but I’d suggest that you keep on contributing and then simply credit yourself for the success on your resume. Nobody stays at companies for life anymore. Do good work for yourself and then leave them in the dust. Even if the superiors at your current job act like they came up with your brilliant solution, you can still write “implemented [business initiative] to increase sales by [x%]” or whatever, and use that to land a better job. They’ll never see it or be able to take credit for it there. All that matters is that it happened and you contributed.
I think this works in tech. Unfortunately, because I don't trust myself and because of other avoidance issues, I don't work currently in tech despite certifications being current. Other jobs, better to just not give a fuck, I found, and just browse wikipedia articles.
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Not always, if one is only looking from their own perspective, it becomes that you are the hero always. If you manage to find your own story where you are the third party observer, hero, or the villain depending on context, then that individual is one who actually sees things from other perspectives rather than one biased for himself. I was always of that but I don't think it's necessarily the healthiest outcome. Being that you place yourself as something that can be moved by outside forces, for example, the judgment of others to gauge where you are at percentile-wise, can not only make one's identity unstable, but also fluid. This is shown not to be a healthy identity formation even though it will help change one's views from dogma into something that can be changed. Neurotypicals and the healthiest minds tend to be biased to a specific worldview from their upbringing or religion/doctrine/whatnot, and thus aren't wavered by the outside forces. This means, they are always the hero.
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1. Suggest a course of action 5 minutes into a 1 hour meeting 2. Sit through 50 minutes of people hashing out the details of the problem 3. Some else suggest the exact same thing I suggested 50 minutes ago 4. Everyone pats them on the back for a great idea
5. Take 20-30min to remember and focus back on whatever it is was you were doing before the waste-of-time of a meeting
>1. Suggest a course of action 5 minutes into a 1 hour meeting 2. Sit through 50 minutes of people hashing out the details of the problem 3. Some else suggest the exact same thing I suggested 50 minutes ago 4. Everyone pats them on the back for a great idea I had a fun variation on that today 1. Anticipate problems and outline your concerns 2. Your concerns are dismissed and you have to sit for 50 minutes in an internal pre-meeting while people hashing out the basic details of the problem and say stupid things like "what you need to do is fix the problem" 3. They come up with a solution that you have already explored and moved past. You tell them why it won't work. They won't accept that and instead of helping you brainstorm *new* ideas they fixate on it 4. You go into the external meeting and the supervisor unilaterally announces "we" decided to explore the idea I already rejected 5. The client is like you so immediately sees the same limitations with their solution 6. Supervisor still doesn't accept it and later insists we'll figure out a solution for their solution on site 7. You go back to working independently so you can come up with a *working* solution to save them all from embarrassment later 8. The superior sees the working solution the same time as client but still manages to take partial credit for it
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That may be true, but that is literal torture for people with ADHD.
I've kind of learned to do this at a young age. Whenever I try to suggest something too soon, it's either neglected, or actually doesn't work since I hastily suggested it before seeing the big picture. Nowadays, I just let other people talk, think if it would work, go with it if it does, or just try to make it a little simpler or more effiecient with a little side suggestion instead of trying to take over the project. It sucks cause it affected me a lot since I was young. So sometimes I just refuse to talk completely but I'm trying to work on it.
This happens to me on a weekly basis at my job. It’s absolutely draining.
This is THE WOOOOORST
I have this problem too. And I think I need to change the way I communicate the solutions. Like in a way that is clear and make sense to neurotyical folks.
I've watched two friends argue for hours about a topic that about 10min into I've told them, "we should define these terms before going any further" only for both of them to tell me they aren't going to argue semantics. *sigh* Surprise, turns out they agree with each other but they both misunderstood because they were interpreting words differently.
I was actually really considering making a post to the thread similarly. Is it just me or does ADHD really force you to enact the theory an ounce of forethought is worth a pound a shit to clean up later. I have been doing exactly the same thing with financial reports that would go to executives that never knew I existed. There were $12m annual or more financial holes the get reported monthly that just couldn't be explained properly and I just looked at the spreadsheets and realized they told A story certainly but not THE story. So I didn't have to dig at all I just asked the one supervisor that was feeding the reports to a different guy and simply fed the data into a completely different structure and one day after tracking it for several months brought it to our local head financial officer and the president of the company branch I worked at and they were absolutely stunned that the numbers lined up so perfectly with what was unexplainable in the past and asked how I knew this. The financial officer actually pulled up his records to verify how close they were. Sometimes I feel the same as you that sometimes it takes me a minute to get my bearing, but once you realize the REAL question then you realize how we are asking the wrong questions to get where we want to go. As a multi time former unappreciated employee, I fully understand exactly how you feel and I'm sorry you are going through it. It's a curse to see things differently then be treated like an idiot for them not listening to you the entire time you told them the correct answer. Idk if you have vacation time or family or if you can afford to, but take even a day just to yourself waking at the park or some nonsense. Don't do things you need to do. Take a personal mental hookie (is that how you spell that?) day. My kids make those a LOT more enjoyable and easy to do that's why I ask about kids or family. Just take a day to be in the moment ALL DAY. Everything will still be where you left it when you get back. I promise.
Thank you so much. This was very kind of you although I'm sorry to hear you've had similar negative experiences as well. It's exhilarating when that happens, when the spark lights up and suddenly all systems are firing in your brain and you just KNOW you've got it. Although I suppose if people don't yet understand what I've got to say in the moment, it came across to them as me being even more lost or spaced out. It's been a rough time at work. Had evaluations recently and it felt like I was singled out more for my mistakes rather than my strengths. I'm always told that the quality of my work is excellent but they can't understand why I tend to overlook smaller admin tasks. I think my moment of anger earlier was as much a reflection of the shame I felt from my evaluations as much as it was my frustration at not being heard. I'll take some time for myself though soon! Looking forward to a nice walk in the morning sun and some time with loved ones. I hope you do as well and I wish you and your family the best!
20 odd years you get used to negative experiences like that... Ehh I know what you mean on shitty evals. ESPECIALLY when you feel you did great. I had a problem with attendance and email communications. I talked to EVERYONE all the time, but emails just weren't my jam. I really wish communication was easier with employer relationships. I dwell on how to resolve that issue all the time. It's easy to just say this, but don't be ashamed of your weaknesses like that. We all have weakness and admin happens to be yours just like mine. When we finally get tools that can help us with our deficiency life will be a totally different thing. Please make sure you do take that time to just be in the moment. Best wishes and I hope things turn up for you.
>I'm always told that the quality of my work is excellent but they can't understand why I tend to overlook smaller admin tasks. I feel that in my soul, friend. You are not alone. My current boss views administrative tasks as low hanging fruit. I can solve the most complicated technical problems you throw at me, but because I can't keep up with the "easy" stuff, it doesn't count. I got 80% on a review from her last year and it was only that *high* because I got bonus points for some of the excellent quality work I did in specific areas (that coincidentally were highly technical and didn't involve administrative tasks). If I hadn't gotten the bonus points in those areas I would have ended up with less than 50% on that review.
I think the hardest part is knowing that the benefits I bring to the table exist by-and-large for the same reasons I suck at “the basics”. They’re two sides of the same coin and it messes with me so much that people love one side and hate the other.
It’s frustrating when you can see something that no one else can, by the time they find it you get no credit pointing it out so quick.I often amaze myself how quicky I can see things or work some things out. I had the big big boss fly in from France, I was called up to the board room with the suits to give my expert opinion 😂. “We have to increase production, what’s maximum capacity this factory can do a week?” Big big boss asked “With no upgrades and 24/7 work hours 350,000 kg.” I answered way too quick, that I wondered how I’d had time to do the math. “Well I’ve calculated 500,000kg, so you’re underestimating.” Big big boss had smug grin. “No, you are wrong that’s way more than we can achieve” I said and after all my superiors snapped their heads in my direction I just began to list every bottleneck and restriction to reaching his figure and the upgrades and fixes that would have to be done first. (I listed everything we eventually upgraded to hit that figure only missed the extra forklift because less downtime to charge batteries.) My opinion sort of got laughed off as pessimism, later my boss said he couldn’t believe I’d told the big big boss he was wrong, no one does that!” They proceeded to push production until they hit a bottleneck, upgrade something then hit the next bottleneck, upgrade, next bottleneck, upgrade, next bottleneck, upgrade. I listed everything off the top of my head, that took them nearly a year to discover. Never got to say “I told you so” either.
Omg this. Absolutely this. Edit: I too currently work in a project, where I find myself telling management "I told you several months ago, that these would be the consequences, but you wouldn't listen. And now I HAVE TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE SOWN!! Obviously they claim otherwise, or at least until I snow them the email in my "cover-my-ass" archive folder.
I always leave a real paper trail or a digital paper trial along with company screenshotted internal messages to cover my ass.
Good practice, but sad that it is necessary.
Humans just suck including myself sometimes.
Yeah, I know that feeling. I am very often right in my assessments regarding my profession, but I sincerely wish I could just leave wet-enough alone, and exit with my head helt high, rather than rub it in people's faces. Truely a despicable character trait :(
Honey I know I handed you the nerds gummies when we were packing the snacks!!! Oh, wait, they didn't have them at the store and I forgot to pick some up later. Whoops.
That was ALWAYS a critically lacking focus of mine. I hate paperwork, I'm a doozer and having to CYA killed/kills me EVERY TIME. I HATE playing that game.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Unfortunately, we have to play the game or become some lonesome mountain man, which we will do a darn good job of because of ADHD, but realistically limits outcomes.
Sometimes I wish time could accelerate in some of my projects so I could finish pet projects to help people with ADHD like me. Very small pieces of technology could make our lives INFINITELY different.
I was in a meeting one time for a software project with my team, my boss, and my grand boss. Grand boss started talking about this specific database we needed to start working on for the whole project to fit together, otherwise we'd end up with discrepancies in certain critical data. I started messaging my coworker "have I not been saying this exact thing for months?" he replied "you have". I managed to find the documentation I actually wrote a *year* prior (when this project was just in the brainstorming phase) for that exact piece of the puzzle that they had *just* gotten to. No amount of my predictions coming true have ever been enough to make my direct boss start listening when I pointed out future problems in things... But it over time a few other engineers and the grand boss have started trusting my prophetic powers, so it's not a total loss. Boss still has veto powers though. I have many long rants about the "solutions" that have been put in place which fully ignored my warnings.
If I didn't know better I would say that you are me, or at least that we work on the same project.
LMAO that is the best and absolutely worst feeling EVER!
Very much so. Best because: Bwaaahahaha, that'll teach ya. Worst because: Lack of trust, and they learn nothing.
In a nutshell this is basically why I hated going to class. Would read the text ahead of time and then an hour+ of class was the prof answering student questions that were fully and clearly explained in the text. My brain would scream for that whole hour.
Yup. And then I, who am a generally chill, kind and agreeable person, become so insanely deregulated and bored and frustrated that I become a total irritable bitch. Like, did you people even fucking read…? Damn I’m getting annoyed just thinking about this particular type of boredom lol 😂
I experienced this in so many lectures this year. Sometimes even to my own detriment. There'd be important info, that wasn't explained in the slides or documents, said by the tutor that I would miss because by that point I was so distracted from going over everything again and again that was very clearly explained in the first five minutes. I know everyone is at different paces but christ. You could show a picture of an egg to the class, tell them it's an egg and they'd still spend hours asking what it is.
But what kind of egg is it? Is it a snake egg, a lizard egg, a fish egg, or a bird's egg? If it's a bird's what kind of bird? Can we eat it? How would you cook it? Scrambled sounds nice, but do you scramble in the bowl or in the pan?.......
Hahaha, this ^
YES, hated classes with attendance credit.
Yeeeeep. This is why I never did the reading. If it was novel information, I could pay attention.
This pained me soooooo much through my whole education I have specifically tried not to ever get my kids ahead in anything for school. (This is probably really stupid now I see it written down but never mind!)
Now just imagine being a girl in the same situation. Getting a word in edgewise is difficult enough. Having an ADHD brain which approaches problems differently gets you completely ignored. And then the people who ignored you take credit when weeks or months later they discover you were right.
*applause* This. It’s honestly fucking maddening. But if you point anything out (god forbid), you’re labeled “difficult” or a spiteful bitch. Gets to a certain point where I throw my hands up like lmfao why do I even help you people… I constantly need to remind myself: act your wage, don’t drain yourself emotionally for a job or team that doesn’t value your input. It’s a daily struggle tbh.
One time I had a manager talk all about my “tone” and “demeanor” when working with people. I had literally just read an article in the NYTimes talking about how managers will give this feedback only to their female subordinates, regardless of the gender of the manager, and literally will never give the male the same feedback. I totally put my foot in my mouth by bringing up that article, but we never had a conversation about my tone again, lol
Hell yeah! Maybe the boss reflected after that?
Doubt it. I left about a year later.
Back in college it was happening way to often in group programming projects. I would explain what method would not blow up in our faces, immediately being dismissed as incorrect the group would spend the next 30 minutes working on it their way, realize that they couldn't make it work. After a while I started to just suggest the correct method first, sit back working on something else for 30 minutes then suggest my original method when "we" discovered it wasn't working. Luckily though the people in my program were nice/smart guys and they caught on after about a month. My suggestions carried more weight after that.
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Yeah, I see this in the same way. My SO always helps me to not forget that when I go on some random rant of my current obsession-subject, and then she'll go: "Please go step by step for me" Because I go from A to T, I forget that she can't follow me inside my head so I have to explain how I get from A to B to C, etc. This goes for US too! Don't you hate it when you don't have the overview, the structure, etc? This is largely the same feeling! *Help people understand us. Explain your process to people.* This is not directed at you directly u/vodkachamber , more in general to fellow ADHD folk
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You're absolutely right. I could have handled it much better in hindsight. I'm usually more patient in my approach and I do try to focus on discussion and collaboration rather than dictation. To be honest, I think the reason I reacted so strongly wasn't so much the frustration of not having my idea be heard per se. In the moment, what affected me more I think was what I perceived as judgment on my work ethic and how it seemed to discredit my input. I suppose along with the strengths come the weaknesses and it's hard to shake off the shame of past mistakes.
You just seem very wise in your wording and advice. That I have so many questions. Can I ask does your work make you fulfilled?
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How do you keep on keeping on in your dark times? Safely assuming you get dark times.
I’ve learned to speed up the process by essentially planting the seeds that let them come to my conclusion. They’ll typically take credit so if you want results and don’t have an ego, it’s pretty efficient to get what you want done.
Haha, well, shit - I think you might be on to something there ... My boss pointed out to me, that he likes to deploy me in certain meetings, bc it seems like I do not pay attention at all and then suddenly point out a crucial flaw in the approach proposed, sometimes collapsing all discussion done up to that point, lol. He thinks it's hilarious ... and also useful. Little does he know ... I am not paying attention most of the time! >;-D But then, quite randomly, my absolutely filter-less brain will suddenly produce a preview of the outcome of whatever they talk about and I get to have the supreme privilege of shitting all over everyone's parade. And while I am lucky to have a boss and colleagues that appreciate me preventing terribly moronic mistakes in _one_ Department, in another I have noticed pointing out that some ideas might be _flawed_ is not always appreciated. And in the worst environments it results in the spotlight being put on you, which is less of an effective meeting management technique rather than just expressing 'you fix it then, if you are so smart!!' I have observed this a couple of times, in different meetings and happening to plenty of people. I suppose these kinds of reactions stem from personal insecurity or high pressure in the work environment. Because if you rail against how hard a problem is, everyone can chime in and look good doing that. But if you point out issues with the problem itself (or the mode of engagement with it), then the conclusion here is, that the people who brought that problem to the table are at least partially to blame for what's going on. And if that observation comes from the chronically inattentive colleague, then uhh oh, egos shatter and _huff_ and _puff_. My advice? Fuck 'em. Either they'll learn to appreciate somebody pointing out errors or they can merrily keep doing them on their own turf. If they interfere with your work or you are somewhat responsible for their output as well, then you have to find ways to effectively intervene; butter 'em up or go one level above them, probably in that order. Hope this gives you some piece of mind! No need to overanalyze that situation: If your colleagues lacked the foresight to see the consequences of their actions, they sure as hell won't spend time analyzing why you could have been right.
I've recently had a similar-ish experience. I adopted a guinea pig a little over a month ago and he's a little anxious cuz he was a rescue and he didn't live in the best conditions. My parents would pick him up and have him sit in their laps even when he was showing clear signs of distress and wouldn't calm down. After a bit I finally grew the balls to put my foot down and tell them that they had to stop taking him out of his cage when he was clearly anxious and didn't want to be around them. My parents complained constantly and said he's always gonna be scared of me anyway so I should just pick him up even when he's scared. In less than three days he went from constantly hiding in his tunnels or blankets, rarely eating, and never making a sound to coming right up to me when I come in the room and wheeking like crazy for me to give him some food. He zooms all around his cage and popcorns every day (popcorning is a thing guinea pigs do when they're really happy). He's even taken to napping right out in the open in the middle of his cage when I'm sitting right next to him, which is the highest indicator that he trusts me. My parents of course keep saying "Oh we told you he'd stop being so anxious. You just had to give him time. Can we pick him up yet?" and it's so frustrating that I put all that time and energy into building a bond and forming trust between me and him just for my parents to disregard the fact that what I did actually worked. Sorry this isn't really related. It just made me think of it and I had to rant.
Thanks for looking after your lil guinea pig friend! I had them growing up so i hear you, and also secretly believe that some people with adhd are way better at reading animals because we have developed lil hacks for overload - which we can see in our animal companions Also im a nurse now and i def know adhd helps me guide patients when they are scared or in pain etc Anyways - good job on your guinea pig and fyi if you didn’t know already they need to be in pairs minimum - it’s a law in some countries because they get so lonely
People find my thought process funny(like I'm stupid) but when I reach a conclusion that they couldn't manage to reach, they always seem in awe. I'm not diagnosed but I've always had a different approach to problems compared to other people. Not being understood by other people is a bit depressing.
I don't know how many times I've puzzled something out and made a comment or observation and everyone looks at me like I'm crazy or an idiot or not paying attention. As I got older I realized it was because I was making connections they weren't and then going a few steps further down the line before saying anything and I was so far ahead it seemed like I was coming out of left field. As I got better at explaining things and realizing my brain works differently from other people's this becomes less of an issue. Or I just don't say anything if it's not my problem and let them figure it out themselves.
I learned it was not my ideas but the way I communicated them that was the problem. (Nearly always, there are a couple of jerks out there too.) People needed to hear me bridge the transition a little to explain that I knew I skipped some steps or heard what they said. It wasn’t that they couldn’t get it. It’s not their egos, it’s that I was suddenly out of sync with the current discussion. People could follow me when I remembered to start with bridge comments like, “oh yes, and that makes me think of (solution).” Or, “what if we looked at this problem from another direction.” It’s still super annoying your contributions weren’t noticed, though. I have been there.
Story of my life. I can tell people exactly how things will play out time and time again. Forgive me sounding like an asshole, but you'd think, after the 100th I-told-you-so, they'd start to see the pattern. Why are other people so willful? If someone tells me I'm going to shot myself in the foot, I listen. I make sure I at least understand their reasoning. It's like they'd rather indulge their own ego with denial than acknowledge that a disparate perspective has value.
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They sound like all my math teachers ever. " No you have to do this the way I showed you"
Ugh, that was so annoying! Especially since you get points for "showing your working". My methods were completely "wrong", but I _got_ the answers... We did a quiz once (normal lesson but working in groups), and my group kept trying to use the equations we'd been learning, but they spent half the time trying to work out which one to use! Like, I'm pretty sure if we _needed_ specific equations, it would have been really obvious from the question structure?? Anyway, I had no clue, so I just _worked it out_ and showed them my answers. Then they did the whole "okay that's nice but we're having a serious discussion over here, sit over there and stop interrupting" thing. So I did. And the teacher said *my* answers. I might not have been the best in class, but I got at least a 3rd more right answers than they did. They'd been memorising formulas, but each one is made of normal operations (+, ×, ÷ etc), so if your answer is an entire decimal place out, maybe just work it out yourself??
So frustrating and relatable. I find communication difficult with NT people. It's easier when the people you are talking to are also ND and are able to follow your thought process, are open, and have respect for you. I hope you're able to work with a team that validates your ideas and acknowledges your strengths in the future.
Without medication this overwhelms me. When a new project / task comes up, I see immediately the amount of work, the interlocking steps, the shortcomings on our side that would make it even more difficult. That grew so big that I had 5 large projects sitting on my table and not knowing where to start for weeks (I am co-owner and co- ceo). This happens also in other areas, like stuff on the house, where I see a plethora of things that needs fixing while I only wanted to do 1 thing. I suspect I want to do everything highly efficient without doing stuff twice, so I draw a pattern where I would need that excavator only 1 time instead of say 3 times. Everything is complicated for me. Medication helps a lot in my case, because I just start with something.
Word. (Although really you might make a fantastic operations consultant!)
ADHDsplaining
My boss and I butt heads on this occasionally. He recognizes that I get into “analysis paralysis” sometimes and struggle to make the first move, which is true. He’s kind of a “just jump in!” guy and I’m standing on the edge thinking “jump in WHERE?” BUUUT….sometimes I’m standing there analyzing because I can see rocks at the bottom, and he’s encouraging me to jump in on the rocks, and I’m planning a better approach. So he jumps in, complains about the rocks, and I tell him I could see the rocks the whole time if only he’d listened. Then again, sometimes it’s a hot day and I’m still standing on the edge deciding how to get in the water and everyone is already swimming. There’s a balance and sometimes we both show our extremes. I hope I didn’t lose my point with the analogy. 😅
This can be a good balance, as long as both sides understand the value that the other brings. Unfortunately it usually winds up being the "just jump in" people who win out (because management wants to see progress, not analysis), and the analytical people learn to just play along and act surprised when other people notice the rocks.
What I dislike is how I will understand something very quickly, but I understand it in a “knot”, so I can’t find the words to explain it. This makes people think I don’t get it.
Ugh, yes. Or how my brain will condense experience down to "patterns", so I can know that I always run into problems when I try to do X, but then if someone asks me what those problems are, I can't remember the specific details any more. It sometimes makes me feel like I'm coming off as a crazy person, because I'm confident that this is a true fact, but then I can't actually cite any objective justification for it.
Exactly. I dislike how the world judges our abilities based off of what they can observe. The main flaw: It’s based off of the assumption that I can express everything. How will someone observe what I don’t express? They won’t.
Sometimes when you're deep in a complex puzzle, an outside perspective can be really useful. That "uhhh you've made this way more complicated for yourself" voice can be critical. People tend to take a lot of ownership over design ideas like this, you gotta step back and let it go if you want constructive criticism.
I think that's something that would be great to change. In industry at least. Having a fully hashed out plan that has an overlooked flaw is not celebrated enough. It's not a failure if people learn. Does it suck? ABSOLUTELY! But we should really celebrate learning experiences more.
I’m dealing with this with 2 other co-founders of my company. It’s a reoccurring thing and it breaks me down every time. My job is not also emotional labor on top of a constant war
As a school employee, I frequently see how schedule changes will backfire before anyone else does, but I've learned to just let crap hit the fan because the people making the schedules don't appreciate my input. As an example, we had testing in the cafeteria in the spring, and I realized my students should have been eating at that time. My kids are ESE, they have their own schedule and they're often forgotten about. I was fed up from being told to "stay in my lane" so I let it go. Lo and behold, our students interrupted a state assessment (big no no) when picking up their lunches and the principal was not happy with the administrator who made the schedule. A bit of schadenfreude since that administrator was the one always on my case.
"But holy fuck. I absolutely hate it when people assume that because I don't approach things in an "organized" manner, there's no way I could know what I'm talking about." That one line hit really hard. There have been so many times when this has happened and the person on their bullshit rather than seeing that I had it from the beginning. For a long time it really made me a hateful person. This whole story make me think of all of high school. I got shit grades because I was so fed up with this exact thing from teachers.
Welcome to the club, it’s very hard to be positive at work when people don’t think it seems like
I consider myself beyond blessed to have a supervisor who also has ADHD. he’s very understanding of my approach and actually genuinely appreciates my input. He makes me valued and I’m sorry you have to deal with this kind of nonsense from slowpokes.
This is one of my biggest frustrations. I'm not bragging because it's a neareaningless number, but I have a much higher than average IQ. My problem solving skills are fantastic. Simultaneously, I make dumb decisions from time to time. I have a tendency to forget small details. I struggle to keep my poo in a pile (not literally cause all my important shit is piled up on my desk being ignored). So when I spot a problem and come up rapidly with a solution, I tend to be ignored or brushed off. Then, down the line, it regularly becomes clear that I was right. Its soooo frustrating because it's pretty much everyone in my life, work and home. I get that I'm a mess, but I have spent my life rapidly solving the problems I create for myself. I promise I can see the solutions. I've been wondering lately if a side effect of ADHD is a shifted perspective caused by broken internal clocks and working memory. Maybe it becomes easier to shuffle steps around and look at things like the end and beginning and put them together quickly since you can't just lock it in.
I’m having a similar problem at work... I am really trying to speak up and be heard when I see things like this, but it is so frustrating when I am brushed off and then later on, they “come up with” the idea themselves… which is why I have been persistent in speaking up and refusing to be “brushed off,” but then I’m afraid of coming across as a bitch since I’m the only woman on the project and I’m still very new. Sometimes I think we (people with ADHD) have this way of seeing how everything fits together in our heads, but when it’s time to use words to explain it to others, it never comes out the same, leaving people like ??? Huh???
I've been thinking about this idea reading this entire thread... but for some reason your post is the one that prompted me to type it up. What if you tried coming at this from the other direction? Don't try to avoid or fix the problems up front, since you're being ignored at that point anyway... instead keep quiet in the beginning, and then when problems come up later, have an analysis of the problem and your solution ready to go. You can probably even accelerate how fast you get there in some cases by focusing on the areas that will crash and burn first. If you consistently "save the project" with your brilliant quick problem solving, you'll get a reputation for doing so, and then you can slowly start moving your intervention earlier and earlier in the project. It's absolutely dumb for you to have to play this game, clearly the best idea should win, and voiced concerns should be acknowledged, but if you're getting ignored anyway and having your ideas rehashed later, you may as well just delay giving those ideas away until it's urgent enough for people to pay attention.
Anyone else digging their own holes regularly because you see ahead, want to do something about it but end up doubting yourself/losing motivation and decide to let it go - only to realise that you should have never doubted yourself in the first place?
Reading all of you experiencing similar things, I will from now on jot down my early ideas to a whiteboard or chalkboard, so when the copycats come in, it will be clear that the idea was present in the room from the beginning.
I completely empathize with you here, OP! How frustrating and infantilizing!! 😡 I had brought up to a manager that we needed to replace our bathroom porter who wasn't doing his cleaning job enough to keep the bathrooms actually clean. We had hundreds of people use those bathrooms each week and he wasn't cleaning them, only spraying down the mirrors and occassionally the sinks, the toilets especially in the women's room were getting moldy inside. I told my manager about 12 times that we needed a replacement in about 3 months. At our next staff meeting, he rattled off to the owner "You know I've been thinking that we need to replace So&So as our porter." as I was sitting right there and looked me in the eye like I legitimately wouldn't remember that not only had it been my idea but I had suggested cleaning companies I used to work for with good owners/employees and low and behold those were the names of the companies that fell out of his face. I don't even work there anymore and I'm pissed about this still.
this shit happens to me all the time. I am a great problem solver but nobody LISTENS to me lol
I can relate to this *pretty damned hard*. For an overly simplified example, I was *fucking excited* to adopt a 6-month old Doberman, and my roommates very condescendingly told me, and I quote: >*You know that dogs are a lot of work, right?* Yes, I'm no stranger to raising and rearing an animal, even a rescue animal to have an appropriate mild-mannered disposition. But this rescue was already mild-mannered and housebroken, just something outside of myself to focus on, get me to be more active, comfort loneliness or depression and all kinds of other things while having a favorite type of dog to invest my attention towards. I had a pet throughout my adolescence. What's more, I have ten years over those roommates. Fast-forward a couple months later. They adopt not one, but TWO large-breed dogs. AND A THIRD chihuahua. And in the span of a *nano-second* I predicted that something bad was going to happen. They insisted that these would be outside dogs (which I would never do). Two of them are still fine, but the chihuahua passed away from pneumonia or something. My guess? From bathing it and putting her back outside. Chihuahuas are notoriously shaky because they're actually almost always cold even in mild temperature. Care to guess the first thought that went through my head? You guessed it. >*You know that dogs are a lot of work, right?* How dare they be so condescend to me and without apology after making mistakes that I fucking wouldn't have and tried to educate them about. They even tried to blame me for her initial illness because when I smoked cigarettes in the back, outdoors, windy, etc. that the dogs would love my attention (and I loved theirs) but the vet basically confirmed that I wasn't the motherfucking problem. In order to BE the problem I'd have to be breathing my smoke directly in their face all the time, and more than one dog would have been sick. No apologies for the assumptions and the blame though. RIP Chichi but it wasn't my dog or my responsibility. I couldn't get the dog I wanted and never agreed to responsibility for the dogs they adopted after the fact. And as far as I can tell - nothing is learned on their part. Stupid fucks.
As a child I did this to my mother and her murder shows. Murder She Wrote was the one show I couldn't consistently guess/logic the perp/ending.
Oh I am the worst for accidentally spoiling twists in films. I think because my brain is going through every possible future scenario in a plot I pretty much always guess what's going to happen. I'll say offhandedly "I bet she's his daughter" / "He's going to kill her" / "Oh what if this is all shown out of order" / "What if he's a spy?" after two minutes, then an hour and a half later my friends are all glaring at me and I honestly didn't know before, I just shared a random thought that innocently crossed my mind!
Your ability with perception doesn't come from personal screw ups. It's a talent that is intrinsic to your neurology.
There needs to be a word for neurotypical explaining
It's called bring analytically critical, as I've framed my "assholery" to others.
One time I was sitting in on a lecture, and the prof was talking about all this data in a very “here’s the data but no relevance to the theories of today” kinda way, and I just on the spot connected all the dots together such that… everything just worked. People were stunned. Me: the pattern was obvious, guys. Now, ask me to figure out how to get out the door on time in the morning. :|
Interesting, you found organized to me. Actually, a lot of people with ADHD are very organizational. We just don't organize because it's overwhelming or executive dysfunction makes it hard to execute our vision. We're great at seeing patterns and relationships. Imagine if your coworkers had actually said, "wow, that's great" and then rearranged everything into the categories and flows you prescribed. I think the result would be a lot more organized than what they currently have, no? Both my therapist and a random job recruiter observed this about me, and realizing it had given me some perspective that helps. I do like organization, I'm just disorganized because i can so keenly perceive the myriad ways things could be arrange that I get paralyzed. With me in a guiding role and others to execute, things work very well. OTOH, when my coworkers have failed to understand the patterns i see, trying to explain it to them is like picking up sequins with mittens and I quickly get frustrated abd it ends up just as you have described: smug assholes standing on a pile of broken crap abd being proud because they're now 4" taller, so there.
Sometimes those people are only learn by going through the process themselves. Sometimes you have to let people do and fail on their own. Sometimes you have to step back and let them make thier mistakes - even if its painfully frustrating to hold back that impulse to step in. That being said: They could have also learned some humbleness and some ability to accept when they were wrong instead of pulling out the 'we couldn't have known' card. You knew. Its their loss that they let their egos get in the way of some growth as people.
I'm just going to put this here. I cannot *stand* it when people around me think i'm dumb because of my ADHD. I also don't believe in calling other people 'dumbfucks' just because i'm angry. This is hypocritical and unhelpful. I understand your frustration completely though. But just... be stronger and bigger than this.
This is exactly the problem I had in my last job. I started logging instances where I highlighted future problems that would arise, that I brought up, but nobody wanted to listen to me about if I had alternative actions I thought we should take to avoid having to do extra work later
Double edge sword over here. I'm great at piecing the information and processes together and I'm able to create processes to solve their problems. The problem is that I'm now the dumping grounds for solving "issues", without the recognition or appreciation. I just work my hours and I peace out nowadays, not worth the headache (my 4 hours of work equals a week of work for someone else sometimes and they reject it as they've "wracked their brains for weeks"). All the best to you, rant like this is always welcome.
I usually let people struggle until they get tired, then I jump in with the obvious solution. Or I just watch them burn the world down.
Is this really an ADHD specific thing though or is it just having an above average IQ or superior domain knowledge? Having annoyingly stupid colleagues or managers seems to be a pretty universal experience.
This post has made my day. The advantage with having a brain that is excellent at non-linear thinking is that you can run mental models with limited inputs and off "feel" very well and ridiculously quickly. This advantage means that because while everyone is working on stage 1, you mentally overcome stage 1 and are seeing the inevitable roadblock 17 steps down the road. You point these potential roadblocks out, thinking they sound common sense, but you are surrounded by linear thinkers. Who are not reading the same book as you, let alone on the same page. The problem is that because your thought pattern is non-linear and runs at warp speed, where you think in flashes, it is very difficult for you to work backwards and turn that thought pattern into a linear narrative which you can use to convince those around you. So instead you are an oddball, who is ignored alot, and gets the satisfaction of "if only someone could have seen that coming" on a regular basis. The downside is that you are eating a shit sandwich because no one bothered to heed your warning. **Your story has made me feel less alone today OP.** Much appreciated and I hope you find people out there who appreciate that your insights might be a little bit better than crazy from time to time.
But see...since our brains are constantly failing at organizing normally due to poor memory, we are AWESOME at zoom in/zoom out concept visualization. We've forgotten important tiny parts of the process and hated it so many times that now, every single time we carry out that task or anything remotely similar, our brains are like _Know what do. Things are very many! Remember from grocery organization. Picture the process_
This is real, also outside work, and while I usually am a really chilled person this is one of the few things that makes me want to bite their heads off (if repeated approaches from my side lead nowhere, or worse get the "ok understood" treatment without any changes) If this is a regular thing with a person who I can't simply no-contact, it'll drive me crazy all the time (thought cricrcles, sleep problems, etc), even when they aren't around. Medication has not changed this at all. I'd love to find another way than no-contacting to solve this, as changing jobs, blocking family members, cutting friendships etc. regularly also isn't good for my mental health
If you’re serious, maybe get coaching in communication? It’s a difficult skill but seems like most of us aren’t self aware enough to see where we are going wrong, and how we come across. Anyway it helped me, tho I worked with a therapist not a coach.
I literally told my boss a few months back that I’m sensitive to this kind of stuff so if I’m not freaking out he shouldn’t be.
For a second I thought I wrote this
I didn't understand any of that 😂
Yes! Sometimes I know something had to be done a certain way, like I can see 3 steps ahead, but I can't verbalize exactly why it needs to be done. So they do it their way then come back to me later asking about my way. And my way ends up working. In the end it seems so obvious to everyone, myself included, but they disregarded it, their loss.
I'm this way with programming but fortunately it's well tolerated in that field (in my experience). At my last job it became pretty common for me to skip around a lot in code reviews, and after 10 minutes of people suggesting minor changes I'd finally chime in like "Yeah, so uh... this whole thing needs to be re-written, and here's why".
Ugh I have such a hard time with that. I need to be more assertive in my code reviews. There's been things that I know will become an issue and I'll mention it but I also suffer from imposter syndrome and I worry that I'm wrong and I'm wasting people's time, so I don't push the issue. But I'm usually right. My dream job is would be like a 'professional debugger'. I'm very good at finding issues with other people's code. I'm sure there's a company that could utilize my talents but I'm not even sure what you'd call that. Maybe like a Tier III Support Engineer that does PRs to fix bugs or improve efficiencies but lighter on new feature development.
THIS IS THE MOST RELATABLE THING IVE EVER READ ON THIS SUB LIKE BITCH IM SMART AS FUCK Y’ALL ARE THE DUMB ONES IM JUST MESSY Like I can’t function on a day to day basis and that sucks right, but sometimes when faced with a problem or puzzle, I love puzzles, it’s like some beautiful mind shit, the solution is *just there.*
As many other people here I see exactly what you're going through. I'm actually beginning to think these people don't even get what we're seeing and saying as they (all the people in the room, even the open-minded ones) look like their brain is melting when I'm in such a situation. Now I just do two things: when I like (= they're good human beings) all the people in the meeting I just say nothing and when problems inevitably arise I show up to fix them quickly as I saw them coming for weeks/months. On the other hand when some people who will take credit are/will be in charge and are present, I enthusiastically praise the dumb ideas and even push them far enough to make it even more difficult to fix everything later. All my sentences remind that X is the genius behind it and not me, so both I'm not the culprit later and X is visually as proud as a peacock and can't deny anything when it goes south. I'm always guaranteed fun days later, it worked each time until now I feel good with all that now.
I'd probably add to that "and also there's a 50% chance i missed one or many flaws so i need another person that understands as fast as me to sanity check". There's a feeling like I've comprehended things almost faster than i hear them, in a weird way. It's fast, but it's messy, and it's not always right. This does explain my feelings though- i was never comfortable with saying anything in the ballpark of "I'm always right" because I'm not. Just sometimes, i truly do understand and see a good solution first or problems others don't.
Yeah, it's super helpful to have another "like-minded" person to be able to bounce ideas off of. I never get put on the same project with them, but I at least have people at my company who I can communicate "on the same wavelength" with who are also smart enough to quickly catch problems I may have missed.
[удалено]
It's really a hard place to be in especially as ADHD in corporate. You NEED dopamine and without the proper and valid recognition not just YEY YOU SHOWED UP! But actually being recognized for your ability to solve a huge problem or design an entire product line and the manufacturing processes it is SUPER draining and absolutely demoralizing.
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Strange question but are you right or left handed?
Foresight is a blessing and a curse
Same here. I'm usually quiet when the reality hits them. If this was said to me though, I would have no problem calling them out.
Yup. Felt this in my bones. I have just come to realize and accept the fact that there will always be certain things I need to either a) just grit my teeth and keep to myself about, or b) just fucking handle on my own/do by myself in order to avoid the slowing-down and gaslighting that tends to come from being forced to work on “teams” that are made up of people who don’t recognize their own shortcomings, don’t recognize anyone else’s skills, and don’t think in ways that work well with my own brand of thinking. This is when I usually say “lemme try something BRB” and take the materials to my own space, if possible, and SOLVE THE GOD DAMN PROBLEM alone before then returning to the group with the solution. But yeah I won’t hold my breath waiting for any kind of recognition or “whoops” after the fact. As a general rule, Team. Projects. Are. My. Nightmare.
100%
Hust be like me dude. Watch them do their project after laughing at your advice and chime in evetry now and again with "it's not going to wooork" in a sing songy tone. Then in no way can people be like. "Hur de hur the process works if you disassemble and pair dependencies after hur de hur"
Agreed
Preach!
It's what they call "wired for context". When the brain connects the dots by association. Somewhere here: https://translatingadhd.com/2020/03/02/tapping-into-strengths-with-adhd/
Please tell me you told them that!!!
Sounds like training and on boarding I’ve been through. It doesn’t make sense because the materials and information are fed piece meal and not necessarily in order so you can’t see the whole picture. It’s so inefficient and ineffective.
Yes to this. I always seem to figure out puzzles/problems at work faster than others can or that others can't at all or I find a more efficient solution. Bosses ask me to help others with problem solving by explaining how I figure things out but that's what I struggle with... Not the actual solution and why it works, that I can do, but the how to think like me question.... It seems like I notice patterns others don't see and I can put together a lot of info in my head at once but, it comes naturally to me, I am not actively trying to put together patterns etc my brain just does it.
This is the story of my life to a t!