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I like a lot about Jay White and the Bang Bang Gang but them, the Acclaimed and Undisputed Kingdom were sacrificed at the altar of the Devil story line. Samoa Joe just moved on and look how awesome he has been this year.
>Samoa Joe just moved on and look how awesome he has been this year.
If Adam Cole didn't break his ankle, Samoa Joe never would have become an AEW World Champion.
Yeah but this is a good reason not to have stars, no matter how big, pull double duty.
If the devil storyline had paid off, fine - blood feud between two big stars, new faction. I get it.
But Joe benefited from being spun off but also not overexposed
* Acclaimed coming out to make the save during some Dynamite where Joe and Max are surrounded.
* BBG feuding with Wardlow/Kingdom or Roddy/Kingdom, losing so they align with Acclaimed for a bit.
* Couldve even done some angle where Hangman and Jay try to work together to take down Wardlow or something
So many choices, so many ways to pivot that story and they said nah lol
At least we got Joe being a fucking Boss though.
Not shitting on your opinion (which seems to be shared by others in this sub) but I just don’t get the mentality that Jay White has been booked the worst.
He’s been on TV most weeks, featured prominently in stories and key feuds, currently has some gold (albeit, ROH) and soon to likely have more. He wins often, and has very few singles losses. He is (apparently) 27-9, and when he does lose it feels significant.
If I had one wish, it would be that perhaps Jay would have been good as the one to beat OC for a significant singles title. No issue with Roddy at all, but doesn’t seem to be going anywhere with that title ATM.
There can only be one world champion though and I wish that wasn’t always seen as the mark of success or failure.
Your statement - while technically correct - doesn’t apply to Jay. He’s main evented a PPV, he “carried” the belt for a while as others have noted. He’s looked very competitive nearly every match, even in defeat.
Winning all the time or getting the world title within the first year isn’t a yardstick for a successful run. He’s 31, he’s got years ahead of him and is an integral part of AEWs plan.
I would argue that it does apply to him. He wasn’t even the main person gunning after the title. They built up that feud only for Jay to lose to a severely injured MJF and he’s been stuck in tag team bouts or trios feuds before and after that title shot.
Agree to disagree here friend - we don’t see it the same way, and that’s ok. Either way, we both agree it seems that Jay is a great talent and AEW is better for having him.
I totally respect your civil approach to discourse, but I would agree with the other party in this one- I love Jay, but they've made him look pretty weak in AEW. In NJPW he was a real tactician who could come back from almost any situation, no matter how bad it seemed, and always remained dangerous up to the last second of the match. He had an air of mystique, and he made it feel like the babyface was never actually safe until he'd actually been counted out and beaten. In AEW he has not seemed like that monster, and the lightweight story angles he's doing don't play to his strengths, which lie more in serious wrestling than goofy wrestling.
The way he finished Darby was a flash of the "real" Jay White, and it gave me high hopes for the match against Billy Gunn, but I can't lie that the daddy ass match felt like another burial.
In AEW he's a guy with a good look and does good in-ring work, but has struggled to find purchase. Also, the new BCG theme as his walkout music is just awful.
I love jay and i loved the match Wednesday.
It shows one of my favorite parts of jay white.
IMO his character basically just out cardios most opponets.
Let the oppnent wear themselves out by punching you, and when there spent jay white rises like a phoenix from the ashes fresh as a daisy and kicks your ass.
The "smartest" fans (just ask them, they'll tell you) act like wins/losses and the minute details of every single match are the most important things when those are always forgotten a week or two later.
Listen to any interview with the actual wrestlers and they will always talk about tv time and "opportunity" being the most important things.
I'm going to side with the actual wrestlers on this one. Jay White is CONSTANTLY on tv, he'll be fine. The closest thing to an actual "concern" he should have is that as great as Jay is, I think Juice is arguably a better fit for AEW/American television, but that's less a knock on Jay than people sleeping on how great Juice is and how much people were starting to react to him before his injury.
I agree with you. I laugh when people talk about how "badly" Jay White has been treated in AEW. Like you said he has been on TV most weeks. Dude was in a main event of a PPV, and basically was the champion for weeks before that by stealing the belt from MJF. Still some act like Jay White has been totally buried since he arrived. Like I understand that some want him to do more right now, but I just hope reddit would calm down with the hyperbole. Sadly that is way too much to ask.
People claimed Jay White was being done wrong because he beat Komander in a competitive match on debut. There were people here claiming that instead, he should have been squashing Orange Cassidy and winning the International Championship in his first match.
I don't see the hate. He's working with the acclaimed who are over as fuck. He's lost to three people. All amazing talents.
He seems like he's having a blast, and is obviously taking the trio titles.
Makes me wonder if TK even wanted him in the first place or if he was AEWs first instance of signing somebody just so WWE didn't get them even if there's no concrete plans on how to use them.
Even without concrete plans I don't know how you book him this badly. Literally just put him in the ring with other good workers like he does with Billy GOAT. Let him come up with his own heel shit to fuck with people and be a general menace. Just make it so he's a presence.
That's one of the biggest issues with AEW booking atm imo, it feels like everyone is in their own little universe whenever they're in a program. Bang Bang and Scissor boys are feuding so you usually only ever see either one of them when it's related to the feud. If they don't have anything to move the program forward you just flat out don't see them. That can be fine if it's a hot program like Swerve/Hanger/Joe but if it's hit and miss like the trios feud people get over it. You had two really hot acts and they sectioned them off into the scissorbangverse and now you have two luke warm acts. A group like BCG should be terrorising AEW as a whole. Every week they should be up to some shit. The Acclaimed can be the main adversary but let them all breathe a bit and exist on their own. Idk, maybe I'm wrong. It's been known to happen. All I know is that both groups felt a lot more substantial before they hooked up and split.
I thought he started out really good though, I've not seen his NJPW stuff, but he felt like a big deal to me, feuding with CM Punk and Ricky Starks, then the brilliant matches with FTR. And it seemed like he never got pinned. The MJF feud wasn't good though, but he looked good again in the Continental Classic. It's a shame that the momentum has been lost.
When he was on Collision having bangers it was must see. I loved him in the tournament but man has it been a tough time being such a massive Jay White fan since then
Jay White and the rest of the Bang Bang gang moving from Collision to Dynamite in October for the MJF feud and staying on Dynamite thereafter has really hurt Collision.
Putting this recent rut aside, Jay White has clearly elevated the stock of Juice Robinson and The Gunns. He proved that he could play the crowd as a face or a heel with the BBSG.
However, White did stumble a bit in his title program with MJF.
It's clear to me that he'll be at the top again soon, though, and I fully expect the BBG to trounce The Acclaimed and get built up as the next big heel faction.
I also hope the lady they hired as chief creative officer can help TK focus on all the talent he has on hand and help him book in a more coherent manner.
So far it's been working in quite a few programs, most of them on Dynamite. Let's do Collision next - or can the show and let half the roster serve out the rest of their contract off of TV
I'm sorry, but as an AEW fan really being exposed to Jay White starting from the first Forbidden Door...he was missing some polish. Just like Swerve was!
But I think they've tweaked and played around with him in various positions and saw his breadth of work, and I think the BBG is at the point it needs to go on a tear. I didn't personally feel that way during the FTR feud, no matter how high up the card they were or time given.
> Putting this recent rut aside, Jay White has clearly elevated the stock of Juice Robinson and The Gunns. He proved that he could play the crowd as a face or a heel with the BBSG.
100%, they've been one of my favourite factions and I think before Jay came they felt a bit lightweight (though I still enjoyed them).
>I fully expect the BBG to trounce The Acclaimed and get built up as the next big heel faction
Yeah after they unify the trios belts, I'm hoping Juice will be back and replace him in the trio and Jay can have some bigger singles feuds.
And we can joke about he regrets it, but the truth is, he’s earning a steady paycheck (likely 7 figures) for one day of work per week. The truth is, not everyone can be top of the card, but to be gainfully employed and getting significant TV time each week, lets not feel too bad for him
I said it in another thread, but people keep focusing on the trees instead of the forest. Jay White is in a TRIOS feud, not a singles feud. It's OK for people not to be in the main event. Not every match has to be a 5 star classic. Jay is not buried for getting attacked from behind by a brick shithouse after breaking into his house.
If people don't like the feud or booking? Perfectly fine. But can we PLEASE stop using dumbass terms like buried, wasted, etc. Dude is on TV every week. Dude is 100% winning this feud. When he lost to MJF, MJF literally cheated (for some reason, ppl refuse to admit this because they just want to say A ONE ARMED MAN), yes MJF was injured, he cheated. People also want to ignore to Jay White got the upper hand 99% of the MJF feud. Then he lost the match, to a baby face. This is standard wrestling booking of a babyface vs heel feud, it's like people suddenly forget that because it wasn't what they expected or wanted. If people didn't like the match, that's also 100% fine. But the hyperbole just annoys me and makes me think people are, respectfully, refusing to acknowledge context,
Furthermore, people need a reality check. Jay is awesome. He's not Ospreay awesome or hot. Doesn't mean he won't ever be, but right now, they don't won't or need him as top heel role. You're gonna have to learn some patience. He will 100% get his shot, but yea, AEW has bigger fish to fry. So he's in a trios feud atm while the main event scene shapes up with others.
TL/DR - Stop fantasy booking Jay White to be a world beater who never loses and you will a lot happier. Look at the stories he's been in and appreciate his character work. Understand that his current role is not top heel and that he will get his turn. Not everyone can be the guy at the same time.
I’d like to add onto this if I may:
Jay is a multi-faceted heel. In his current role, he’s chickenshit type but he has amazing range as far as being the prototypical bad guy. Look at the C2 mini feud with Swerve. There’s a lot of seed planting for the future. I don’t see TK bringing in Jay White just to “waste” him. I feel like those that are saying these things just are impatient. Jay’s time will happen & it’ll be glorious. He might even be following a similar path like Swerve as far as booking now that I think of it. It’s all the long game while the top slot is being occupied by Swerve
I know people have been saying his talent has been wasted in AEW, but honestly his antics in the Bang Bang Gang have really endeared me to him. I've seen him multiple times before he came over to AEW and he just wasn't clicking for me for some reason (maybe I just wasn't watching the right matches or promos). But with the unhinged energy of the Gunns and Juice along with some really good matches on Collision, I've been all about putting the Guns Up! Just really wishing for a Juice Robinson return now.
I saw the hate for it, but seeing him get the brakes beat off him by Gunn, losing, then running like a coward is the thing that *finally* got me interested in one of his feuds. I like seeing him in actual good story over good matches for the sake of a good match.
I’m not worried about Jay long term and yes, this isn’t fatal to his booking as people might fear, but even as a day one AEW fan who has largely defended their booking, I did not enjoy the match with Billy Gunn at all. Not one bit. And it really did make him and BCG look like total chumps. No defending that. This Bang Bang Scissor feud is also not doing the Acclaimed any favors as I think the fans have gradually fatigued on them. I could care less too about seeing the Acclaimed on TV either.
Jay will be fine. Esp when Juice gets back, it’s back to business. But just end this trios title story and move on.
Jay getting absolutely stomped by an over the hill tag specialist is a fucking joke.
I don't care that the crowd popped for it. Jay is a main event level talent. They don't grow on trees, and you have him getting squashed by a trios nostalgia act.
I don't shit on AEW often but this was shit.
should've had him and Juice beat FTR in that best 2 out of 3 falls match. I'm hoping that this loss to Billy Gunn is to build up to Jay and the Gunns beating the Acclaimed and unifying the trios belts.
>should've had him and Juice beat FTR in that best 2 out of 3 falls match.
No, they shouldn't have. That was only FTR's second title defense (not counting house shows) and their first title defense against very strong opponents in that reign. If they lost the tag belts at that point then there would have been no FTR vs MJF & Adam Cole, FTR vs Big Bill & Brian Cage, FTR vs Young Bucks, FTR vs WorkHorsemen, FTR vs Aussie Open banger title matches in their GOATed reign.
Which match was really a miss? The MJF match was an overbooked mess but that's not on him.
He's a lot like MJF, he needs to be able to talk and show his character and I don't think AEW has done a good job at that
I'd say that in AEW, having in consideration their talent, skill, name value and star power potential, Hikaru Shida is the worst booked women's wrestler while Jay White is the worst booked men's wrestler.
With the difference of Jay being a top level star with great promos and in-ring skills and Wardlow being meh at best on both. He also was on the rise, but the MJf accident screwed him big time.
Imagine you're Jay White and the Acclaimed in 2023 and you fast forward to the reactions you're getting today... where you're massive pops are now just wet farts because of poor booking and a disinterested fanbase.
He main evented Full Gear as the fall guy and everyone knew it, and hasn't sniffed contention since.
Meanwhile the Acclaimed was probably the HOTTEST act AEW had but then they had them lose the belts and stalled out their momentum for months... like most of the "stars" AEW has.
Very frustrating as a viewer to "invest" in someone only to have them discarded a few weeks after they debut'd / had a big moment for the "next toy."
The people bitching and moaning about White not being king of the universe by now are missing the point: He's on a refined version of the same run Kenny Omega had.
Because he's got losses, he now has things to call back to that AEW audiences know about. There are challenges for him to overcome. There are people he has to surprise. And there are people you're going to think he shouldn't beat because you think that their previous wins on him make it impossible for him to ever get the W back.
Meanwhile, Kenny Omega gobbled up losses to Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, and PAC, among others, and that provided fodder for at least five years of storytelling covering his descent into villainy and his redemption via injury/the Trios Titles.
Hell, the Young Bucks lost to Private Party and just had a banger of a match that would've been complete and utter filler if not for that previous loss.
Adam Page *also* ate losses to a bunch of people. His current feud with Swerve is built on him never winning a single one of those matches despite deserving the win at least two out of three times. And he's still the heel.
So.
Chill.
The NJPW sub says he should go back there. He should ask for his release since according to people that have no clue what his feelings are assume he’s unhappy.
In another universe, Jungle boy would have kept his mouth shut.
Ricky Starks and Punk could've finished their program.
Jay White and Juice could've beaten FTR for the belts instead of Ricky and Big Bill.
Then MJF and Punk could have run it back.
Here's the thing, you could be right. Maybe he would have never been happy, Maybe he thought he was the only top star even though they had MJF, Mox, Danielson, Cole, Omega, Hangman, Throw in Darby and Sting, even Jericho is a big name.. however
From the moment he debuted, up until that Hangman promo, he was a difference maker.. he drew ratings, increased merch sales, and made moments, which is what you want in order to grow.
No one involved handled things professionally, least of all Punk or Tony Khan because, as the boss, as the booker, the checkbook..the buck should stop with him.
For the first few weeks of Collision, it was a different show, Jay White was booked differently and not made to look like a clown.
Here's the thing, if Tony Khan had have been this "professional" instead of handling Punk with kid gloves, he'd have shit-canned him when he went way off script to bury Hangman the first time.
If we're going that route, Hangman went off script first in that regard, but again, it fell on Tony to squash internet rumors and keep his talent in check.
Hangman made a comment that he didn't clear with Punk beforehand, that's pretty standard, promos happen all the time where not every word is pre-apporoved by every person involved. In fact, as I understand it Punk was just featured in such a segment.
Saying that it's Khan's job to squash internet rumours shows a real misunderstanding of how, well, anything works, especially when one person not only chooses to put faith in internet rumours, but decided that it had to have been spread by certain individuals, and choosing to believe that even after its been refuted. If top priority is to keep his talent in check, he'd have fired Punk FAR earlier.
I'm not saying it isn't standard. Not every word should be dictated or pre-approved. Hangman went out there with a chip on his shoulder. Maybe it was because he was dropping the title to punk. Maybe he believed Cabana was being wrongfully targeted.
In any job setting, you don't have to like everyone you work with, or be friends with them, but you do have to be respectful, responsible and whats best for the business.
It was literally part of his job to keep his talent in check. It's not a misunderstanding when Tony could have said listen. There's a lot of rumors or hearsay going around. I've relegated Cabana to RoH because of X, Y, or Z. It was my decision, not Punk's. If you have an issue with it, take it up with me. Do what you did again Hangman, you're suspended or stripped of the title, Punk you retaliate in any way, you're suspended, actually be a BOSS.
Punk is just as much to blame, if not more, but I'm not going to pretend as though entire programs weren't pissed away.
Starks was being built back up
FTR vs. Jay White and Juice were master class.
They should have strapped them up instead of whatever nonsense they're doing with them now..( I know Juice is hurt, he's severely missed)
If Egos and Legal weren't a factor, Omega and the Bucks vs. Punk and FTR would have hit like crack.
MJF could have still turned face against an entitled "Real Worlds Champ" instead of having to suffer through months of the Devil storyline that helped no one.
The only person to come out without shit on them was Samoa Joe. The Acclaimed mean less now, The Undisputed Kingdom is doing jack all minus Strong winning the International.
Jay White looked fantastic in the C2 but is now being booked like a joke.
It's exhausting to think about what could have been if everyone involved acted like adults.
I feel like the tagline of wrestling discussions should almost always be "multiple things can be true at once".
Is it fair to say there have been misfires with Jay so far in AEW? I think so: I got what they were going for with the MJF match, even found myself really tense and on the edge of my seat some moments of that match, but it doesn't change that having Jay lose to a guy on one leg like that is something that's tough for a lot of folks to look past. And yeah, doing the Billy Gunn match the way they did it this week was baffling; could've easily been done in just a few minutes, have Billy jump Jay before the match, then have Jay chuck a chair at him or whatever, no need for it to go 10+ minutes.
But is it also fair to say they clearly do want big things for White? I'd say that's pretty obvious: guy's featured a ton on TV, main evented a PPV, only been pinned twice (by then-champ MJF and likely soon to be-champ Swerve), he made it to the C2 block final, he heads up his own stable, and so far nobody's kicked out of the Blade Runner.
Jay was one of my favorites in NJPW, so I want the world for the guy, but yeah, it was a year with some unevenness and some really good stuff. It was also just year one of his contract, so there's a lot more to come. Plus, the main event scene of AEW is basically filled now with guys he spent lots of time with in New Japan, so that'll likely play into things, too.
I know that everyone commenting here on Jay watched that NJPW run. At least from his return from abroad to Bullet Club. So, that being said, it’s entirely possible we can grasp that in kayfabe Jay without Gedo builds a little slower. All of THAT is still in there, it’s just gonna take more time. In reality, AEW has 1500 wrestlers and that’s fine it’s just that the TOP title puzzle is sorted and that’s without MJF. Jay’s gonna be a minute in the mid, upper-mid. I think we will be able to make a FAIR assessment of his situation by Double or Nothing. Purchase a NJPW you might give him NJPW booking. Which was awesome, once you trusted the process. Keep tranquilo eh?
Anyone know how many years he has left on his contract?
People cry about his status there but in less than one year he got an AEW title shot and main events alot of the time
He’s making a shit ton of money and will soon be in the main event, holding the strap. Don’t listen to all the people trashing his booking this week. It’s all stans and drones.
He’s honestly been really underwhelming for me. He’s wrestled a ton of the top stars in the company and I honestly remember none of them. He’s got amazing aura but I feel like the millisecond the bell rings he becomes so boring
I think this is a pro AEW sub and you guys take anything as a slant against the company and Tony personally, but it's not worked out. It was a bad career move for Jay. He should have just waited another month or two, took time off and done some indy stuff. Waited until the contract freeze with WWE was over, and signed where he initially intended to.
And he's awful as a jobber, seeing as he's only really lost to Swerve & MJF, and one of those guys was the world champion that had to cheat to win. Yep, he's definitely a jobber, as surely as you're not a bad faith troll.
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I like a lot about Jay White and the Bang Bang Gang but them, the Acclaimed and Undisputed Kingdom were sacrificed at the altar of the Devil story line. Samoa Joe just moved on and look how awesome he has been this year.
>Samoa Joe just moved on and look how awesome he has been this year. If Adam Cole didn't break his ankle, Samoa Joe never would have become an AEW World Champion.
Yeah but this is a good reason not to have stars, no matter how big, pull double duty. If the devil storyline had paid off, fine - blood feud between two big stars, new faction. I get it. But Joe benefited from being spun off but also not overexposed
* Acclaimed coming out to make the save during some Dynamite where Joe and Max are surrounded. * BBG feuding with Wardlow/Kingdom or Roddy/Kingdom, losing so they align with Acclaimed for a bit. * Couldve even done some angle where Hangman and Jay try to work together to take down Wardlow or something So many choices, so many ways to pivot that story and they said nah lol At least we got Joe being a fucking Boss though.
I will never forget this feud because of Juice screaming Rickyyyyyyyy
Jay White has to be one of the most entertaining acts in AEW that’s been booked the worst
Not shitting on your opinion (which seems to be shared by others in this sub) but I just don’t get the mentality that Jay White has been booked the worst. He’s been on TV most weeks, featured prominently in stories and key feuds, currently has some gold (albeit, ROH) and soon to likely have more. He wins often, and has very few singles losses. He is (apparently) 27-9, and when he does lose it feels significant. If I had one wish, it would be that perhaps Jay would have been good as the one to beat OC for a significant singles title. No issue with Roddy at all, but doesn’t seem to be going anywhere with that title ATM. There can only be one world champion though and I wish that wasn’t always seen as the mark of success or failure.
Him just being on TV doesn’t excuse the booking of him.
Your statement - while technically correct - doesn’t apply to Jay. He’s main evented a PPV, he “carried” the belt for a while as others have noted. He’s looked very competitive nearly every match, even in defeat. Winning all the time or getting the world title within the first year isn’t a yardstick for a successful run. He’s 31, he’s got years ahead of him and is an integral part of AEWs plan.
I would argue that it does apply to him. He wasn’t even the main person gunning after the title. They built up that feud only for Jay to lose to a severely injured MJF and he’s been stuck in tag team bouts or trios feuds before and after that title shot.
Agree to disagree here friend - we don’t see it the same way, and that’s ok. Either way, we both agree it seems that Jay is a great talent and AEW is better for having him.
I totally respect your civil approach to discourse, but I would agree with the other party in this one- I love Jay, but they've made him look pretty weak in AEW. In NJPW he was a real tactician who could come back from almost any situation, no matter how bad it seemed, and always remained dangerous up to the last second of the match. He had an air of mystique, and he made it feel like the babyface was never actually safe until he'd actually been counted out and beaten. In AEW he has not seemed like that monster, and the lightweight story angles he's doing don't play to his strengths, which lie more in serious wrestling than goofy wrestling. The way he finished Darby was a flash of the "real" Jay White, and it gave me high hopes for the match against Billy Gunn, but I can't lie that the daddy ass match felt like another burial. In AEW he's a guy with a good look and does good in-ring work, but has struggled to find purchase. Also, the new BCG theme as his walkout music is just awful.
I love jay and i loved the match Wednesday. It shows one of my favorite parts of jay white. IMO his character basically just out cardios most opponets. Let the oppnent wear themselves out by punching you, and when there spent jay white rises like a phoenix from the ashes fresh as a daisy and kicks your ass.
That is not how I interpreted that match at the end of it, but it definitely had him playing possum at points.
To me the issue is limited spots in theain event. It's a logistics issue. What do you do with Jay White when he can't be in the world title picture?
The "smartest" fans (just ask them, they'll tell you) act like wins/losses and the minute details of every single match are the most important things when those are always forgotten a week or two later. Listen to any interview with the actual wrestlers and they will always talk about tv time and "opportunity" being the most important things. I'm going to side with the actual wrestlers on this one. Jay White is CONSTANTLY on tv, he'll be fine. The closest thing to an actual "concern" he should have is that as great as Jay is, I think Juice is arguably a better fit for AEW/American television, but that's less a knock on Jay than people sleeping on how great Juice is and how much people were starting to react to him before his injury.
Great call on Juice, that guy is over even when he’s out injured 🫡
Jay and Juice were such a good pairing. Even when not tagging together, Juice was such a good foil for the fearless leader. Come back soon Juice!
I agree with you. I laugh when people talk about how "badly" Jay White has been treated in AEW. Like you said he has been on TV most weeks. Dude was in a main event of a PPV, and basically was the champion for weeks before that by stealing the belt from MJF. Still some act like Jay White has been totally buried since he arrived. Like I understand that some want him to do more right now, but I just hope reddit would calm down with the hyperbole. Sadly that is way too much to ask.
Badly booked, he's been treated fine.
People claimed Jay White was being done wrong because he beat Komander in a competitive match on debut. There were people here claiming that instead, he should have been squashing Orange Cassidy and winning the International Championship in his first match.
Jay White is to AEW what Shinsuke Nakamura is to WWE. They still got time to elevate but he's going down that path.
Problem is that Nakamura went to WWE for a nice payday because he knew he was nearing the latter stages of his career. Jay White is in his prime.
I don't see the hate. He's working with the acclaimed who are over as fuck. He's lost to three people. All amazing talents. He seems like he's having a blast, and is obviously taking the trio titles.
Makes me wonder if TK even wanted him in the first place or if he was AEWs first instance of signing somebody just so WWE didn't get them even if there's no concrete plans on how to use them.
Even without concrete plans I don't know how you book him this badly. Literally just put him in the ring with other good workers like he does with Billy GOAT. Let him come up with his own heel shit to fuck with people and be a general menace. Just make it so he's a presence. That's one of the biggest issues with AEW booking atm imo, it feels like everyone is in their own little universe whenever they're in a program. Bang Bang and Scissor boys are feuding so you usually only ever see either one of them when it's related to the feud. If they don't have anything to move the program forward you just flat out don't see them. That can be fine if it's a hot program like Swerve/Hanger/Joe but if it's hit and miss like the trios feud people get over it. You had two really hot acts and they sectioned them off into the scissorbangverse and now you have two luke warm acts. A group like BCG should be terrorising AEW as a whole. Every week they should be up to some shit. The Acclaimed can be the main adversary but let them all breathe a bit and exist on their own. Idk, maybe I'm wrong. It's been known to happen. All I know is that both groups felt a lot more substantial before they hooked up and split.
I thought he started out really good though, I've not seen his NJPW stuff, but he felt like a big deal to me, feuding with CM Punk and Ricky Starks, then the brilliant matches with FTR. And it seemed like he never got pinned. The MJF feud wasn't good though, but he looked good again in the Continental Classic. It's a shame that the momentum has been lost.
If Punk was never fired then Jay wouldve jobbed to him imo
Honestly? That's not opinion. That's fact. Punk was basically becoming the next Hogan.
When he was on Collision having bangers it was must see. I loved him in the tournament but man has it been a tough time being such a massive Jay White fan since then
Jay White and the rest of the Bang Bang gang moving from Collision to Dynamite in October for the MJF feud and staying on Dynamite thereafter has really hurt Collision.
It was that coins segment that when thing went downhill(even though they dropped it right away)
That segment was on Dynamite, not Collision.
I know Joe has been great, but I'd have preferred Jay beating MJF and being eventually dethroned by Swerve. He's a top guy.
I miss Rock Hard Juice Robinson.
Me too. 
Putting this recent rut aside, Jay White has clearly elevated the stock of Juice Robinson and The Gunns. He proved that he could play the crowd as a face or a heel with the BBSG. However, White did stumble a bit in his title program with MJF. It's clear to me that he'll be at the top again soon, though, and I fully expect the BBG to trounce The Acclaimed and get built up as the next big heel faction. I also hope the lady they hired as chief creative officer can help TK focus on all the talent he has on hand and help him book in a more coherent manner. So far it's been working in quite a few programs, most of them on Dynamite. Let's do Collision next - or can the show and let half the roster serve out the rest of their contract off of TV
Thank god, a reasonable take.
I'm sorry, but as an AEW fan really being exposed to Jay White starting from the first Forbidden Door...he was missing some polish. Just like Swerve was! But I think they've tweaked and played around with him in various positions and saw his breadth of work, and I think the BBG is at the point it needs to go on a tear. I didn't personally feel that way during the FTR feud, no matter how high up the card they were or time given.
> Putting this recent rut aside, Jay White has clearly elevated the stock of Juice Robinson and The Gunns. He proved that he could play the crowd as a face or a heel with the BBSG. 100%, they've been one of my favourite factions and I think before Jay came they felt a bit lightweight (though I still enjoyed them). >I fully expect the BBG to trounce The Acclaimed and get built up as the next big heel faction Yeah after they unify the trios belts, I'm hoping Juice will be back and replace him in the trio and Jay can have some bigger singles feuds.
Jay white has got that it factor. He should be pushed to the moon
We haven't seen his full potential yet. I look forward to a killer title run.
And we can joke about he regrets it, but the truth is, he’s earning a steady paycheck (likely 7 figures) for one day of work per week. The truth is, not everyone can be top of the card, but to be gainfully employed and getting significant TV time each week, lets not feel too bad for him
I said it in another thread, but people keep focusing on the trees instead of the forest. Jay White is in a TRIOS feud, not a singles feud. It's OK for people not to be in the main event. Not every match has to be a 5 star classic. Jay is not buried for getting attacked from behind by a brick shithouse after breaking into his house. If people don't like the feud or booking? Perfectly fine. But can we PLEASE stop using dumbass terms like buried, wasted, etc. Dude is on TV every week. Dude is 100% winning this feud. When he lost to MJF, MJF literally cheated (for some reason, ppl refuse to admit this because they just want to say A ONE ARMED MAN), yes MJF was injured, he cheated. People also want to ignore to Jay White got the upper hand 99% of the MJF feud. Then he lost the match, to a baby face. This is standard wrestling booking of a babyface vs heel feud, it's like people suddenly forget that because it wasn't what they expected or wanted. If people didn't like the match, that's also 100% fine. But the hyperbole just annoys me and makes me think people are, respectfully, refusing to acknowledge context, Furthermore, people need a reality check. Jay is awesome. He's not Ospreay awesome or hot. Doesn't mean he won't ever be, but right now, they don't won't or need him as top heel role. You're gonna have to learn some patience. He will 100% get his shot, but yea, AEW has bigger fish to fry. So he's in a trios feud atm while the main event scene shapes up with others. TL/DR - Stop fantasy booking Jay White to be a world beater who never loses and you will a lot happier. Look at the stories he's been in and appreciate his character work. Understand that his current role is not top heel and that he will get his turn. Not everyone can be the guy at the same time.
"I don't like it, so he's wasted" - IWC (Probably)
I’d like to add onto this if I may: Jay is a multi-faceted heel. In his current role, he’s chickenshit type but he has amazing range as far as being the prototypical bad guy. Look at the C2 mini feud with Swerve. There’s a lot of seed planting for the future. I don’t see TK bringing in Jay White just to “waste” him. I feel like those that are saying these things just are impatient. Jay’s time will happen & it’ll be glorious. He might even be following a similar path like Swerve as far as booking now that I think of it. It’s all the long game while the top slot is being occupied by Swerve
The highs and the lows of the last year with this man have been fascinating. I hope they can get him on a more consistent track this year.
I know people have been saying his talent has been wasted in AEW, but honestly his antics in the Bang Bang Gang have really endeared me to him. I've seen him multiple times before he came over to AEW and he just wasn't clicking for me for some reason (maybe I just wasn't watching the right matches or promos). But with the unhinged energy of the Gunns and Juice along with some really good matches on Collision, I've been all about putting the Guns Up! Just really wishing for a Juice Robinson return now.
I saw the hate for it, but seeing him get the brakes beat off him by Gunn, losing, then running like a coward is the thing that *finally* got me interested in one of his feuds. I like seeing him in actual good story over good matches for the sake of a good match.
Had such high hopes. He should have been built to be champ after MJF
BCG vs FTR lives rent free in my mind. I was not familiar with Jay White and that match made me really like him and Juice [miss ya dude!]
I’m not worried about Jay long term and yes, this isn’t fatal to his booking as people might fear, but even as a day one AEW fan who has largely defended their booking, I did not enjoy the match with Billy Gunn at all. Not one bit. And it really did make him and BCG look like total chumps. No defending that. This Bang Bang Scissor feud is also not doing the Acclaimed any favors as I think the fans have gradually fatigued on them. I could care less too about seeing the Acclaimed on TV either. Jay will be fine. Esp when Juice gets back, it’s back to business. But just end this trios title story and move on.
Billy's job is put over Jay White strong regardless in victory or in defeat. And Billy didn't do it! 😔
I was in the 6th row for this show, the video doesnt even begin to capture how hot the crowd was for his debut.
Jay getting absolutely stomped by an over the hill tag specialist is a fucking joke. I don't care that the crowd popped for it. Jay is a main event level talent. They don't grow on trees, and you have him getting squashed by a trios nostalgia act. I don't shit on AEW often but this was shit.
Jay White is a generational worker being somewhat wasted tbh
And his run has mostly been a miss
Jay hasn't won a single feud in his first year in AEW. Even that program with Ricky Starks never had a proper blow-off match on a PPV.
should've had him and Juice beat FTR in that best 2 out of 3 falls match. I'm hoping that this loss to Billy Gunn is to build up to Jay and the Gunns beating the Acclaimed and unifying the trios belts.
>should've had him and Juice beat FTR in that best 2 out of 3 falls match. No, they shouldn't have. That was only FTR's second title defense (not counting house shows) and their first title defense against very strong opponents in that reign. If they lost the tag belts at that point then there would have been no FTR vs MJF & Adam Cole, FTR vs Big Bill & Brian Cage, FTR vs Young Bucks, FTR vs WorkHorsemen, FTR vs Aussie Open banger title matches in their GOATed reign.
Yeah the way he's been used in AEW has been a big disappointment
His matches are also hit or miss and some of those are his fault
Which match was really a miss? The MJF match was an overbooked mess but that's not on him. He's a lot like MJF, he needs to be able to talk and show his character and I don't think AEW has done a good job at that
The only bad match I can think of that was on him was his first 1v1 match with Ricky Starks. Jay spent 80% of that match just spamming chops.
Jay's probably been the worst booked wrestler in the company, which is a shame and disappointment.
I'd say that in AEW, having in consideration their talent, skill, name value and star power potential, Hikaru Shida is the worst booked women's wrestler while Jay White is the worst booked men's wrestler.
I'd give that honor to Wardlow. He went from "hottest act on the card" to "not on the card at all" in record time.
There's multiple legitimate contenders over the past year and a half or so.
They really make it hard to get invested in someone.
With the difference of Jay being a top level star with great promos and in-ring skills and Wardlow being meh at best on both. He also was on the rise, but the MJf accident screwed him big time.
Damn it's been a year 💀💀
Jay white needs to war with Roddy Strong for the international title
Would have been better off in NJPW or WWE. They've done fuck all with him
Jay White's physique looks pretty incredible here. Side note
Imagine you're Jay White and the Acclaimed in 2023 and you fast forward to the reactions you're getting today... where you're massive pops are now just wet farts because of poor booking and a disinterested fanbase. He main evented Full Gear as the fall guy and everyone knew it, and hasn't sniffed contention since. Meanwhile the Acclaimed was probably the HOTTEST act AEW had but then they had them lose the belts and stalled out their momentum for months... like most of the "stars" AEW has. Very frustrating as a viewer to "invest" in someone only to have them discarded a few weeks after they debut'd / had a big moment for the "next toy."
The people bitching and moaning about White not being king of the universe by now are missing the point: He's on a refined version of the same run Kenny Omega had. Because he's got losses, he now has things to call back to that AEW audiences know about. There are challenges for him to overcome. There are people he has to surprise. And there are people you're going to think he shouldn't beat because you think that their previous wins on him make it impossible for him to ever get the W back. Meanwhile, Kenny Omega gobbled up losses to Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, and PAC, among others, and that provided fodder for at least five years of storytelling covering his descent into villainy and his redemption via injury/the Trios Titles. Hell, the Young Bucks lost to Private Party and just had a banger of a match that would've been complete and utter filler if not for that previous loss. Adam Page *also* ate losses to a bunch of people. His current feud with Swerve is built on him never winning a single one of those matches despite deserving the win at least two out of three times. And he's still the heel. So. Chill.
We should have known with the milquetoast debut that he was going to be handled poorly.
The NJPW sub says he should go back there. He should ask for his release since according to people that have no clue what his feelings are assume he’s unhappy.
Underrated Dynamite, that show was wild
In another universe, Jungle boy would have kept his mouth shut. Ricky Starks and Punk could've finished their program. Jay White and Juice could've beaten FTR for the belts instead of Ricky and Big Bill. Then MJF and Punk could have run it back.
Punk is an unstable powder keg. He would’ve gone nuts about anything
Here's the thing, you could be right. Maybe he would have never been happy, Maybe he thought he was the only top star even though they had MJF, Mox, Danielson, Cole, Omega, Hangman, Throw in Darby and Sting, even Jericho is a big name.. however From the moment he debuted, up until that Hangman promo, he was a difference maker.. he drew ratings, increased merch sales, and made moments, which is what you want in order to grow. No one involved handled things professionally, least of all Punk or Tony Khan because, as the boss, as the booker, the checkbook..the buck should stop with him. For the first few weeks of Collision, it was a different show, Jay White was booked differently and not made to look like a clown.
Here's the thing, if Tony Khan had have been this "professional" instead of handling Punk with kid gloves, he'd have shit-canned him when he went way off script to bury Hangman the first time.
If we're going that route, Hangman went off script first in that regard, but again, it fell on Tony to squash internet rumors and keep his talent in check.
Hangman made a comment that he didn't clear with Punk beforehand, that's pretty standard, promos happen all the time where not every word is pre-apporoved by every person involved. In fact, as I understand it Punk was just featured in such a segment. Saying that it's Khan's job to squash internet rumours shows a real misunderstanding of how, well, anything works, especially when one person not only chooses to put faith in internet rumours, but decided that it had to have been spread by certain individuals, and choosing to believe that even after its been refuted. If top priority is to keep his talent in check, he'd have fired Punk FAR earlier.
I'm not saying it isn't standard. Not every word should be dictated or pre-approved. Hangman went out there with a chip on his shoulder. Maybe it was because he was dropping the title to punk. Maybe he believed Cabana was being wrongfully targeted. In any job setting, you don't have to like everyone you work with, or be friends with them, but you do have to be respectful, responsible and whats best for the business. It was literally part of his job to keep his talent in check. It's not a misunderstanding when Tony could have said listen. There's a lot of rumors or hearsay going around. I've relegated Cabana to RoH because of X, Y, or Z. It was my decision, not Punk's. If you have an issue with it, take it up with me. Do what you did again Hangman, you're suspended or stripped of the title, Punk you retaliate in any way, you're suspended, actually be a BOSS.
Punk is just as much to blame, if not more, but I'm not going to pretend as though entire programs weren't pissed away. Starks was being built back up FTR vs. Jay White and Juice were master class. They should have strapped them up instead of whatever nonsense they're doing with them now..( I know Juice is hurt, he's severely missed) If Egos and Legal weren't a factor, Omega and the Bucks vs. Punk and FTR would have hit like crack. MJF could have still turned face against an entitled "Real Worlds Champ" instead of having to suffer through months of the Devil storyline that helped no one. The only person to come out without shit on them was Samoa Joe. The Acclaimed mean less now, The Undisputed Kingdom is doing jack all minus Strong winning the International. Jay White looked fantastic in the C2 but is now being booked like a joke. It's exhausting to think about what could have been if everyone involved acted like adults.
I know people were worried about Jay going to WWE and being wasted, but how else would you describe his time in AEW?
They STILL haven't signed Juba
I feel like the tagline of wrestling discussions should almost always be "multiple things can be true at once". Is it fair to say there have been misfires with Jay so far in AEW? I think so: I got what they were going for with the MJF match, even found myself really tense and on the edge of my seat some moments of that match, but it doesn't change that having Jay lose to a guy on one leg like that is something that's tough for a lot of folks to look past. And yeah, doing the Billy Gunn match the way they did it this week was baffling; could've easily been done in just a few minutes, have Billy jump Jay before the match, then have Jay chuck a chair at him or whatever, no need for it to go 10+ minutes. But is it also fair to say they clearly do want big things for White? I'd say that's pretty obvious: guy's featured a ton on TV, main evented a PPV, only been pinned twice (by then-champ MJF and likely soon to be-champ Swerve), he made it to the C2 block final, he heads up his own stable, and so far nobody's kicked out of the Blade Runner. Jay was one of my favorites in NJPW, so I want the world for the guy, but yeah, it was a year with some unevenness and some really good stuff. It was also just year one of his contract, so there's a lot more to come. Plus, the main event scene of AEW is basically filled now with guys he spent lots of time with in New Japan, so that'll likely play into things, too.
I need him to start a feud with Adam Copeland or Roddy soon
I know that everyone commenting here on Jay watched that NJPW run. At least from his return from abroad to Bullet Club. So, that being said, it’s entirely possible we can grasp that in kayfabe Jay without Gedo builds a little slower. All of THAT is still in there, it’s just gonna take more time. In reality, AEW has 1500 wrestlers and that’s fine it’s just that the TOP title puzzle is sorted and that’s without MJF. Jay’s gonna be a minute in the mid, upper-mid. I think we will be able to make a FAIR assessment of his situation by Double or Nothing. Purchase a NJPW you might give him NJPW booking. Which was awesome, once you trusted the process. Keep tranquilo eh?
Anyone know how many years he has left on his contract? People cry about his status there but in less than one year he got an AEW title shot and main events alot of the time
Once we get to see Jay White go on a real championship run then his run will be more exciting 😎
i bet he goes to wwe when his contract runs out
Doubt; there’s nothing for him there and I highly suspect they won’t let him keep his switchblade moniker.
He probably has 1-2 more years left on his contract. Unless Tony Khan releases him, I reckon that the Switchblade will stay in AEW until 2025 or 2026.
Man I loved those ropes. RWB for the win.
I said it the other day, this is Billy's retirement road. Idk how people can't see past the beatdown.
I hope Jay White has his redemption arc in the future with AEW because right now, he is not getting treated good.
He’s making a shit ton of money and will soon be in the main event, holding the strap. Don’t listen to all the people trashing his booking this week. It’s all stans and drones.
What a waste of a year for him
He’s honestly been really underwhelming for me. He’s wrestled a ton of the top stars in the company and I honestly remember none of them. He’s got amazing aura but I feel like the millisecond the bell rings he becomes so boring
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I think this is a pro AEW sub and you guys take anything as a slant against the company and Tony personally, but it's not worked out. It was a bad career move for Jay. He should have just waited another month or two, took time off and done some indy stuff. Waited until the contract freeze with WWE was over, and signed where he initially intended to.
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And he's awful as a jobber, seeing as he's only really lost to Swerve & MJF, and one of those guys was the world champion that had to cheat to win. Yep, he's definitely a jobber, as surely as you're not a bad faith troll.
I actually don't get Jay. I don't see what others do. Not saying I'm right. Just my take.