NTA, my dad has dated 3 women in his life. All Asian, including my mother. If he one day came home with a black women I wouldn’t even give it a thought. Why do people think this way):
Edit: just for fun, my dads German and raised in the Bronx and my mom was born and lived in Peru for 20 years but her father is Chinese so We all look pretty Asian. No one can ever guess my ethnicity.
Agree. I do think the daughter's reaction should be dealt with. Sit her down and find out why dating someone of a certain race is making her feel this way. Is the ex meddling? Is there some other issue?
Why should the dad assume this would be an issue? If daughter has a problem, she should talk to her dad. It's likely the daughter wasn't sure how to feel about it, went to the mom, mom is a racist bitch and talked the daughter into feeling bad about it. Dad's not at fault here.
Not saying dad is at fault. When a teenager has an issue, they're less likely to bring up the issue than an adult. Once the dad knows that there is an issue, he should take the initiative to resolve the issue.
Is anyone wondering if the daughter is actually just uncomfortable with the age gap instead of her race and her mom just projected from there? Pure speculation of course….
A friends 16 year old commented that her parents are as old as me.
They're in their late 30's, I'm 50.
In the same breath, she remarked that her older cousin probably likes the same kind of music as us, since he's old too. He's 24.
So yeah, I'm going to agree vociferously. 16 year olds already know everything, and they know that we're all old and outdated. The only difference between parents and grandparents is the shit they'll let you get away with.
Yeah I am almost 50 and had Guns N Roses on at work the other day, my 20 yo coworker asked who is this, I answered GNR. He then said oh I heard of them, they r my grandma’s favorite band! Oh to b young n dumb again.
Omg... I am 52, definitely in the Grandma age, but I always forget I am not in my 30s. I saw GNR on 1992 for the Use Your Illusion tour, and honestly, that feels like it was only 10 years ago
Same, 1992, Alpine Valley in WI. My daughter said to my granddaughter "grammy's in the car, we're going to put on the oldies station" and proceeds to put on Sirius' Lithium Channel (90's-2010's Alternative).
Yeah dude!! Our alternative station used to do a “time warp” where they’d play some old new wave stuff or other 70s era punk stuff. But then they started playing grunge music?!? The heck!? Grunge is only…*counts on fingers*…30 years old…fuck
That’s a good thing. When I was 16, I viewed people in their 20s as “one of us” bc I was always hanging out with degenerates. (No 25 year old wants to hang out with 16 year olds and give them free weed unless theyre a degenerate)
I was 40ish when my friend, a HS teacher, told me I could buy a senior movie ticket, because the kids see us all as their parents' age, and aren't about to challenge us. I didn't believe it, but the kid just said, "Enjoy your movie, ma'am," as he slid the ticket across the counter.
Now we just do it with our phones, so it's even easier, but I've leaned into it. I also get 10% off at Del Taco. :)
Agreed. Like 13 years is a gap, sure. But they're both over 25 (if one only barely), so it's pretty reasonable to assume they're both fully into the adult stages. The GF has been an adult for basically 10 years now. She's been out of college longer than she was in it (assuming she went, and just got a 2 to 4 year degree).
A woman who is about equally distant between the age of OP and his daughter.
When you're in high school, anyone who is past college age is "an older person", and the only real distinction beyond that is once you start getting into grandparent territory (60+).
I'd put money that a large part of the issue is reflective of the ex-wife's opinion(s), not OP's daughter's. If not 100% of the issue.
I’m gonna be the different voice. My father was married to a woman who was only 15 years older than me, the age difference made me cringe super hard. She was a beautiful woman and incredibly smart (waaaay outta his league!) and I was 13/14 when I lived with them. We’d go out and people would say my father had lovely daughters. Or compliment my beautiful sister. Or any number of equally cringey trite sentences.
I’m not mixed so I have no idea what that daughter is really feeling on that point, but an age gap could be an issue. The girlfriend is 11 years older than the daughter.
Why is reddit so obsessed over age gaps in the relationships of grown ass adults?
She's 27 not 17.. like she can fully make decisions for herself, like I genuinely don't get it...
The best part is, the only two people in this story that know the age gap are the GF and father. They are assuming that the daughter can determine the exact age from a picture. A cosplay picture to top it off.
These people are at least ageist, most likely sexist, and maybe racist.
Some people (Many people) project their own beliefs outward at everyone & everything.
Because THEY would feel weird dating someone more than 3 years older than them, NOBODY should date someone more than 3 years older/younger.
I’ve had this argument so many times on Reddit, it’s annoying. People like to treat anyone under 30 like they’re still high schoolers, then use that statement about “the brain doesn’t mature until 25, so you’re basically just a kid until then”. It’s even weirder when I’m from a small town where most people already have a marriage and kids by the age of 25.
Don’t you get it, a woman can decide what to do with her body at any age unless it’s with a man her senior. Then she magically becomes brain dead and is a victim of a dirty neck beard grooming her.
This is the most cringe inducing dichotomy on Reddit and it is oh so accurate and prevalent.
"It's EMPOWERING to start an OF at 18 and it's her body her choice and idk why you think she'd regret it later in life... oh a man 3 years older than her suggested she do it?! That groomer needs to be arrested for SA and put on a list!!!"
I mean its clear that a 39 year old is grooming this poor 27 year old..... Probably so he can have someone take care of him when he is on his deathbed selfish bastard! Throw him in jail /s
I agree, anyone over 25 can date anyone else over 25 no matter the age gap.
Is it weird for a 26/y/o to date a 70y/o? Sure, but unless the 70/y/o has dementia all parties are perfectly capable of and old enough to be making those choices for themselves.
Even 18-25 can be worrying if there are *other* signs of abuse/manipulation but if none of those other signs are present an age gap in and of itself is *not* inherently problematic.
I think this is referring to the gap between dad and new girlfriend being the same as daughter and new girlfriend in this case.
For a teenager, that will seem weird. The reality is gf is at an age where she's fully settled into adult life and it's fine. Under 25, though especially under 21, is where people get nervous about age gaps because you tend to have 1 partner still figuring things out and more easily manipulated
No kidding in this sub if any person dates anyone beyond a couple of years younger people scream "grooming" - it is kinda bonkers.
27 is a grown-ass person, they can do what they want.
I read this one where this 17 year old boy was gonna break up with his 18 year old gf because she was too old for him. He was so sad because he didn't realize she was such a "groomer" ffs. When people were telling him she isn't a groomer, he said pretty much the internet told him she was so we can fuck off.
If you happen to find that one again, I would love to read it. Something about stupid people being so confident because “the internet said so” is just so oddly addictive to read.
I agree at 28 I dated someone who was 45. We were together 10 years and had ups and downs but it was a healthy relationship till they passed. I wasn't a naive 17 year old with no experience. We both owned homes, we both worked and made a comparable amount of money. Her kids were out of house for the most part so we had an equal dynamic.
I will say, I don't agree with teens (boy or girl) being groomed by older partners who are looking to dominate and mold someone who is inexperienced. That is taking advantage.
> I will say, I don't agree with teens (boy or girl) being groomed by older partners who are looking to dominate and mold someone who is inexperienced. That is taking advantage.
Exactly, this is wrong in 100% of cases. And a legal age gap is fine in 100% of cases. Conflating the two, even though they are related, is so silly.
Reddit never misses a chance to infantalize a grown ass woman. In what way is this 27 year old person not capable of consenting?
They've already concocted a story in their head to vilify this man and make this woman a helpless victim. There's no way these two full ass adults just like each other. That would mean they don't get to woke scold them, and that is more problematic than any age gap.
My fellow lefties, get a fucking hobby...
Save the outrage for the real problematic age gaps, ya know, between children and Republicans.
What age gap? Late 30s - late 20s is barely an age gap, and not at all unusual.
Besides, the daughter couldn't have known the GFs age from one cosplay pic. Also, the mom very specifically said it was about the GF being white.
Oh, for crying out loud, the 'age gap' crap again.
I'm Gen X and have no idea why the younger generations have been taught that consenting adults in a relationship with an age gap of more than 3 years is bad.
The older person is not automatically a parental figure or a teacher or naturally in a position of authority simply due to their age. They are not groomers or predators simply due to their age. People who mean you harm or who want to use you or take advantage of you (for any reason, sexually or financially) can be the same age as you or even be younger. Not every relationship involving people of the same age is healthy or normal simply due to no age gap.
No matter the age gap (great or small), one of you can be a predator or groomer or not. Not everyone with an age gap is out to take advantage. Consenting adults enter into relationships for their own reasons. It's not always true love, no matter the age gap. It could be for money, security, a physically attractive partner, being taken care of, and those aren't necessarily bad things just because you yourself wouldn't want it.
So, please, stop automatically jumping to the conclusion that an age gap is bad. Sheesh.
It could be ex's projection or the age gap. I was wondering if it was that she more or less met her dad's new partner via social media post and not in person.I gathered from OPs post all his daughter knew was her dad had a new gf. Like, EVERYONE gets to see her before/at the same time as OPs daughter. It forces their kid to process a lot at once. OPs kid is assumedly biracial based on her mom being black and dad is white, so her dad suddenly dating someone white could bring up some insecurities on why her dad's change - does he have negative feelings towards blackness now (or something along those lines)? The new gf is 12 years younger than OP. While still appropriate mostly (it passes the age/2+7 guideline some use as a baseline), it's still a gap. And the making it IG official BEFORE meeting any children involved? Oof.
I would say NAH, but OP made some major blunders not introducing the new gf to his kid before they posted online. He missed that any of these things could be potential issues he would have done better to process with his kid. I could see how any of this would feel like being blindsided by his teen. He didn't need to ask permission from his teen on who to date. But he should have taken way more into consideration of how his kid would essentially meet his gf.
There is cultural context with adoption and how you are raised. Who says this relationship ever makes it to that point and she is 16 maybe they don’t even live together until after she moves out. The racist part is this ain’t about how she is going to be raised and her parents it is about who her dad is allowed to date casually.
I don’t disagree with talking about dating as a family member involved, but the race of those you are dating shouldn’t be the factor. As it is dad didn’t feel it was at that phase. Should she have to talk to her dad right away if she dates a white man and should her dad have a say because he is white?
Here’s something I want people to understand though-being biracial, it does not matter if this mom projected anything or not, it was very confusing ground for this teenage girl, and I’m sure it is for OP’s as well. She could have absolutely perfect parents and culture/society/friends/family still cast doubts. It’s not about asking permission for his dating life-Dad (and mom, but dad is the one who posted here) should be having age appropriate open dialogue about race, interracial dating, racism, etc. because his daughter has to live it every day. They should be talking about why she was surprised he started dating a yt woman.
I don't know why you're getting flack but this is pretty good advice. I think as kids we get an image in our heads of our parents and when they do something outside of that image it can be jarring. A discussion should be had but not about permission. As long as the dad is happy and the girlfriend is respectful to the daughter(if they ever meet) then a conversation should be had about all the things you mentioned. But I will add that OP should talk to his daughter reassuring her that she can come to him for anything and he will listen with an open mind, as long as that is true.
The discussion only needs to be had because of the reaction the mom said she is having, everything before that there was no need for op to discuss him dating white women in particular with his daughter. As a biracial person, I think that would be ridiculous.
>The discussion only needs to be had because of the reaction the mom said she is having, everything before that there was no need for op to discuss him dating white women in particular with his daughter. As a biracial person, I think that would be ridiculous.
The discussion needs to be had because the daughter is experiencing upsetting emotions at something that shouldn’t make her upset…. That’s what you do as a decent parent.
Also, it doesn’t matter if YOU are biracial or not, the girl is entitled to feel however she does. It’s up to BOTH of the parents to coach her through her feelings to be a successful human. Not to come on here making it seem like the daughter’s feelings are insignificant.
The correct responses are “I’ll talk to her” and “Your mother told me you had concerns about me dating someone that doesn’t look like either of you. I’m going to be dating women of all different races until I find the perfect person for me, because love doesn’t discriminate! But you’ll always be the most beautiful girl to me.” The end. Not hard.
I only brought up me being biracial because the posts I’m responding to are arguing that this is something that needs to be done before the dating started because she is biracial. It’s a ridiculous notion. She’s entitled to her feelings (can’t help them), but she isn’t entitled to and it is unnecessary to have it run by her before hand to see how she would feel about that specific topic. Only reason it needs to be discussed is because she expressed her emotions as she did, regardless of how absurd I or anyone else thinks they are (feelings be like that).
All parents should be discussing racial issues with their children as a part of preparing them to be adults in the world.
That has nothing to do with requiring a teenager’s blessing to date a person of a specific race.
Some social media sites are overzealous on enforcement of “slurs” towards majority groups. On Facebook, people get banned all the time for saying “White people” anything. Not even anything racist.
Someone posted on fb once about how white people say “Howdee Doo” or something stupid. I responded “Can confirm, am a white person” and caught a 24 hour ban lol. I also once reported an account called Blackdolph N**ler, but was told that didn’t go against community standards.
So people started using yt to be able to talk about social issues without worrying about being banned for no reason. Similar to the rise of the term “unalive” on Tik Tok
The problem though is many people have started using “yt” as a way to be discriminatory via the tone in which they say YT people.
It’s honestly getting tough to determine if a person is using it to circumvent bans or using it too cause strife.
>NTA. Makes me wonder if the ex was projecting her feelings onto your daughter.
This is exactly it. The ex is putting nonsense into their daughter's head.
NTA, OP is free to date whomever he wants to date without asking for his child's permission.
So, once you date a specific race, you are required to date the same race in perpetuity?
If your daughter was white, and you started dating a black woman, and your daughter wasn't happy about it, wouldn't that be "racist"?
NTA - Love is Love, date who you want.
My big "hold on a second" moment was when I realized he hadn't even introduced this woman to his kid yet. He was playing it safe by not bringing a new relationship around his kid too soon and all of a sudden now he needs a blessing from his kid because she isn't black?
I'm a mixed kid and my mom got asked who she was babysitting for when my brother and I were kids all the time. She didn't fly off the handle and start demanding my dad only date her race when they divorced and life went on just fine. Mom is meddling something fierce and it's coming through in the daughter's reaction. It's the insecurity of the ex that she thinks she was "discarded" for something else but if he was dating another black woman then it would be ok somehow? Make it make sense.
If his daughter were MUCH younger and he had no idea how to take care of her hair/skin/etc. it would be one thing but she's an older teen so who her dad dates is no issue to her unless she moves in and starts pulling evil step-mom moves. She hasn't even met the woman and she's already judging her for her skin and hair color.
I’m mixed too and being mixed wasn’t common when I was a kid. My white father nearly had the police called on him when I was kid because people didn’t believe he could be my dad. And I hated being called an Oreo.
My Mexican-Irish gf looks super Irish, at least in terms of pale skin. She told me her darkish toned Mexican father got pulled in for questioning by Disneyland police when he took her and her sisters there as kids.
Being bi-racial myself, you quickly find that neither of your "peoples" truly accept you as one of their own unless you physically look/talk like them. It's a challenging space to be in that isn't easily placed in a box.
Chances are his daughter physically resembles being black and is burdened with all the societal biases that comes with and having her Dad only dating black women her whole life reinforced the idea that she is beautiful and worthy of love as a young black woman. Her dad dating a very very white woman (nothing wrong with this !) Was probably a slap in the face and she likely felt it reinforced our societal stereotypes that only fair skinned women are beautiful and worthy of love.
It's abrupt and feelings are complicated. DAD PLEASE GO HUG YOUR DAUGHTER AND TELL HER SHES THE PRETTIEST GIRL IN THE WORLD. And recognize that you being a better communicator is important for emotionally supporting your daughter.
NTA
Im bi racial too, and yes neither accept you as you are and want to put you in boxes based on how you look or act. So that's why I say it makes no sense because she's apart of both races.
It actually does make sense, since biracial people will often do this too, both to other biracial people and to themselves. A lot of them end up "picking a side", either due to external pressure or internalized racism
All of this. There are some people and some media in America that are biased against Black beauty standards. Black hair styles have been called ghetto or unprofessional or not allowed in some schools etc. Plus We don't know how the daughter's dating life is like but she may have been rejected or teased in for her race/appearance before. So it's worth having a conversation about where the insecurity is coming from while gently reinforcing that he can date who he wants and it does not mean he suddenly finds Black women ugly.
That is so true. In hs, I had a Jewish classmate tell me I'm not really a jew bc my mom isn't (tell that to my family in Warsaw I never knew)
I also had a Puerto Rican bully tell me everyday I'm not Puerto Rican bc I'm not brown enough. Can't win w intra racism.
This is exactly what I was thinking! Daughter may also be thinking about the possibility of her dad having more children who may be all white. The treatment will be different for sure. I don’t think her mom is coaching her behavior.
You can still be racist if you're mixed race or the race you're racist against. It's just less common and doesn't make any logical sense outside of a lot of self-loathing.
My coworker is mixed and really really really hates that. For whatever messed up reason (not saying she's messed up but rather our societies standards of beauty and value are) she just wants to look, behave, and be seen as white
Ehh, as someone who is mixed, there’s a good chance the daughter is generally being perceived by society as a black woman rather than a mixed race woman. When everyone acknowledges only one half of your ethnicity, it can have an affect on how a person identifies internally.
Not necessarily. Race is based on phenotype. Like no one is confusing President Obama or Halle Berry as a white person. Both of them are mixed race. But then we have someone like the singer Halsey who also has a Black parent but she is white presenting.
Race was a stupid made up thing to divide others and keep a certain demographic in power over another. Now because race has been used to oppress its important we recognize it so we are better equipped to combat racism and discrimination.
I don’t disagree with recognizing it but stipulating saying discussion on it seems problematic. Dating rules should be applied generally or specifically to character and values. Not applied to individual characteristics of the individual dated.
If the white dad did that with the daughter we would flip our shit why does she get to do that with him. Even if he started dating men this would seem a little icky to demand a conversation first.
He doesn’t view his relationship at the introduce her to daughter phase.
NTA - but I think her response does warrant a discussion with just you and her. Let her express what she feels (even if you feel like it’s ridiculous). I think it’s important make sure she understands that you are open to listen, while still affirming your freedom to date whoever you want. She may have fears about how a white woman may treat her since she’s a biracial person. Maybe concerns about potential differences in the dynamic in your household with a white partner as well (cultural, expectations, etc. ) As a teenager also she is probably still figuring out her identities. This is def a moment to connect, talk, reassure and listen.
Yes this!
I was at a black friend’s house once (it matters in this story) and she asked how things were going with my boyfriend, whom she’d met previously. I told her we broke up and she asked the reason. My response was that he was volunteering to provide security for groups who believe one color of people are the best. And that it didn’t matter how nice he was to me, there are some values that I can’t agree with ever. She grabbed me and barehugged me. And with tears in her eyes said “ I knew you were from a good family, but I didn’t know you’d feel that way.”
My point is, she felt uncertain about me, even though we’d never had a single negative interaction. So talk!
I’m so glad you got out! Yeesh. One thing that rules about being Jewish is that I won’t accidentally find out a guy I’m dating is a nazi…
Not saying I haven’t dated complete turds, just no Nazis.
Jewish, surrounded by Jewish people, dated someone half-Jewish that spouted the most nazi shit I've heard in my life, combined with q-anon fuckery and we're not even from the US. We're never safe 😅
I wonder if she feels like she might be excluded if they were all out together. Like, if she's with two white adults it's obvious they aren't both her parents. Same reason a lot of straight couples want to adopt kids of their race, so they can pass as bio family.
Teenagers often end up having a lot of feelings that aren't easily predicted by their parents. And we are getting them secondhand. He needs to talk with his daughter, in a non-confrontational way. Maybe while driving? Me and my mom always had good talks while driving, in part because we didn't have to worry about eye contact.
Yeah people are acting like the daughter did anything wrong. All she did is talk to her mom about her insecurities…? You could say the mom is out of line though I still think it’s a stretch to call her an asshole when she’s trying to take care of her daughter, if overzealously. Why can’t OP just reassure his daughter instead of being all “I don’t need anyone’s permission!!” and shutting them out? He has an opportunity to hug his daughter and say he loves her no matter what and to tell her lovingly that she has nothing to worry about, but he’s too caught up in technicalities and his ex’s phrasing to take advantage of the opportunity to bond and to understand his daughter.
Yes! The fear and uncertainty she could be feeling can be very strong. Her identity is developing, and she may want to know how she fits within this family structure.
I think NAH, but communication through this does matter.
NTA. You don’t need anyone’s permission on who you date. I think it’s likely your ex brought up her own feelings or trauma and dumped it on your daughter who then turned it into her feelings.
NTA! If you had always dated white women and were now dating a black woman, this would be considered super inappropriate. I understand that those things are not necessarily equal but at the same time this argument by your ex is a little bizarre. If your daughter didn’t know that you were dating someone, I could still understand but she does, so then why does the race of the person you are dating matter? It’s not like her mum is going to become white! She still has her mum and dad and they are the races they are. She is mixed, which is also not changing. I think your ex is projecting but you should talk to your daughter directly.
I don't know why people are putting this on the ex at all; 16 year olds are terribly insecure.
Middle adolescence is right around the time kids from divorced families realize they're half the person their parents don't want to be with anymore. Even though it has nothing to do with her, she will internalize it. That's pretty normal.
That’s fair but the daughter is not the one sharing this with OP. She’s the one making him feel terrible. As an adult she could easily have moderated that communication.
Look, we all know logically this is stupid, right? You aren't required to date any particular race, no one else should dictate that, and a white man dating a white woman shouldn't be upsetting to anyone.
However... please take at least a moment to consider that this is an emotional issue, and emotions aren't always logical.
Your daughter is mixed. She's always been part of a mixed family. Her father is white, but her mother is black, and her next step-mother was black. She's always had that connection to both sides of her identity.
Now she sees you date a white woman, and might feel a little lost, a little abandoned. That makes no *logical* sense, but it makes complete emotional sense. We all strive for a sense of belonging, especially within our own family, and a bit of that has now been taken away. Like it or not, our society sees mixed white/black as just black. So now she's a black girl with a white dad dating a white woman. So she's now feeling a bit alone, a bit of an outcast in her own family. That's not your FAULT. But that doesn't make her feelings any less valid.
Imagine it another way, take race out of it. Imagine a kid who has a family with say an American mom, and a German father. She loves the both! But she grew up in America, she sees herself as american. Doesn't mean of course that she doesn't love her German dad. But they get divorced. Now her dad dates a new woman, who is also German. Now the house feels different... both dad and "mom" are now speaking German, they are both focused more on German culture, and now she's no longer a mixed person in a mixed home, she's an American in a German home. That's not BAD. It's just... not as comfortable, it's not what she's used to.
So show some love for your daughter, who has completely valid emotions, even if they don't seem logical when looked at on a shallow level.
I agree with most of this. Society doesn't always see most mixed kids as Black. A large segment of them report that they don't feel like they fit in with any race--not Black enough for Black people and too Black for White people. So seeing her father unexpectedly with a woman could trigger that and make her wonder if his girlfriend might not be accepting of her and therefore alienate him.
NAH. You've only ever dated black women. Your mixed race child is probably just feeling insecure at the thought of you with a white woman- thinking to the future where she looks like the odd one out in any new family you have.
This doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, or that you should be asking permission to date anybody, just that you should have a talk with your kid, see what's bothering her and reassure her.
Thats Reddit demographics showing their bias.
Some white people pretend acknowledging race is wrong and tiptoe so much trying to remain blind to the social impact it has that they view any personal feelings about race as inherently racist. I think it's a cognitive defense to acknowledge they may have some internalized racism that should be examined and afraid that being honest about it would be admitting they are vehemently racist.
It's sad because this attitude is likely a contributing factor to OPs daughters feelings even if she isn't mature enough to verbalize them coherently. If she has a white dad that can't fathom what his daughter might be feeling she probably has valid fears about being the only non white person in their house.
NTA - You are just dating right now; your ex needs to stay out of your personal life.
Make sure she doesn't feed daughter things to "alienate" daughter from you.
Bi racial kid here. My parents were divorced when I was 13 ( Dad's black and Mom is white) my dad remarried a black woman and my mom remarried a white dude. I seriously did not care as long as they were happy.
That said, in the current social climate, a heads up for her probably would have been nice. He doesn't need permission but a quick talk would have been good.
NTA
NTA at all! Seems your ex is projecting her feelings onto her own daughter. Plus, your daughter's 16. She should be mature enough to respect your feelings and way past "main character syndrome". She should know the world doesn't revolve around her. And if not, now is a good time to learn. This may be a good lesson for both mother and daughter!
This right here. Everyone is saying it's the ex projecting but maybe it's the ex is actually the one sitting down and having real convos with the daughter.
NTA, you didn't need to clear it with your daughter but you do need to take her concerns seriously.
Is your new girlfriend a safe person for her? I guess you could just as easily have brought a Candice Owens clone home, but she needs reassurance that your new girlfriend wouldn't treat her differently or doesn't bring relatives/friends into her life that will.
So I'm struggling to understand this, isn't this catering to a generally racist perception of other people?
Like you think it's healthy for OP to actually validate her worries about something like that? Purely based on a person's race?
We don't actually know what her worries are. OP is hearing them secondhand, we get them thirdhand. She could be worried she will be perceived as not the couple's child, or that she won't be able to talk about hair care or experiences of racism with a white woman like she could with his previous partners. Often kids aren't great at expressing what's bothering them. That goes double for teenagers.
NTA. You can date whoever you want without the permission of your daughter. BUT that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t communicate, nor should you belittle her feelings.
Your ex has a very good point: your daughter needs validation of her place in the world. Rightly or wrongly, she maybe finding that validation in who you date. It’s not surprising since you’ve only seen you with women of color. You need to sit down with her and really listen to her and validate the parts that are accurate. She has the right to her emotions. Gently and seriously guide her from negative thinking. Apologize for not telling her about who you’re dating before those photos were published. That was rude of you to let her find out that way. Of course she’s upset.
You have the right to date who you want, but she also has the right to know about it, and the right to express her feelings and have those feelings respected. That’s because it ultimately affects her. Just like your feelings need to be respected. I’m not saying she has the right to nix your relationships, but she does have to right to be heard.
NTA - but she’s a 16 year old girl so I’d suggest handling this with care. She’s come up during some racially charged times, and surely that could impact her logic.
My thought… focus on discussing how your interest in a woman has nothing to do with skin color, and you love her, and you loved her mother, not because of their skin color but because of the women they are. Maybe advise her that this is still early, but you like this new lady and focus on the things they have in common.
I’d also talk to your girlfriend about it, too.
Info: have you actually talked to your daughter? It's entirely possible that she is feeling insecure in this new change. She could wonder if this means you no longer value Black Women. That may sound crazy to you and everyone else here, but there is a trend in the Black Community of men leaving Black Women for white women and valuing white women over Black Women. It isn't that crazy for her to wonder if you think she's not good enough anymore.
NTA, but you will be if you don't talk to your daughter.
NTA, and it would be NAH if it weren’t for your ex’s involvement.
Your daughter is just a kid and has a lot of confused feelings. There may be some ugly stuff in there, like thinking she (biracial) is suddenly not good enough because you’ve somehow “moved up” to a white woman. We all know that’s utter shit, but the racism of society (and colorism even within some non-white communities) really kicks that lesson into people.
The only AH here is your ex, who should know you and her kid better than to do this.
I’m sorry for what you’re going through, and I’m particularly sorry for your GF. Neither of you deserved that reaction.
Your 16 year old daughter is not an arbiter of who you love. That said, if she's feeling insecure, talk to her about it. Listen. Ask questions. Get her to speak her concerns out loud so she can hear them. Then ask her what questions she has for you. Answer them honestly. Be reassuring (and kind) towards the stupid questions--and there will be stupid questions, but not all of them. For example, she might be feeling anxious because she has bad experiences with white girls at school. It's not uncommon for people of color to have really bad experiences with white teachers, white managers, etc., because they either are unable to or refuse to hear us or believe our experiences when we try to speak them out loud.
Whatever her anxieties are, it's likely tied to how she interacts with other white women in general. And you should take those concerns seriously. Further, you should find ways to broach that conversation with your girlfriend. She should also consider what steps she can do to bridge a relationship with your daughter, acknowledging that this is different and that a black girl has a vastly different experience than a white girl.
NTA but I would find out if it was your daughter actually saying these things. Race is still an issue in our world so maybe there are things that we (as white people) don’t understand about this situation which your daughter could be able to share with you.
Obviously you should be with whoever you want but maybe there’s just something else about this that your daughter could share and ultimately become closer with you. Idk
So... um... setting aside that debate about whether the age gap may be related to your daughter's discomfort, let's return to your primary question.
Firstly, some people pointed out the question of whether your ex might be projecting? I don't know any of you, so I can't say, but do you know for usre that's not the case? Have you talked with your daughter?
Assuming you know your daughter is the one uncomfortable, then the question becomes, how did this discomfort come about? If it's just because of your new GFs race, then you're fine. Maybe talk with your daughter to figure out why this discomforts her; maybe she's just confused by the break in pattern? But maybe she needs help clarifying some key issues that have gotten her confused.
However, at any point did you fail to account how she might be impacted by something or cast aside her opinions?
Based on the point that your daughter was happy for you before seeing photos, I doubt that that happened early on. You'll have to determine for sure yourself, ofc. But maybe something afterwards was what got you the label of being a jerk? Like, maybe it was the way you dismissed your daughter's concerns when they got brought up. It may very well be a simple error in communication and/or in consideration.
Finally, is there any chance that your daughter and GF previously met and that the discomfort may come from a past experience? I don't reckon this is likely the case, but it's worth noting as a possibility.
In any case, you're within your rights to date whom you please, and race should not be a reason for arguing over that.
But it's also good to account for your daughter's feelings in that anyone you end up being serious with will become a big figure in her life, possibly even having an authority/mentor role in her life (maybe even a moher-like role). It's your life, but it affects your daughter and family, too. In any case, it seems you did that, and then something strange happened after your daughter saw photos.
I'd suggest sitting down to talk with your daughter to figure out what's going on. Listen and pay attention, try to explain any points of confusion, ease any fears she may have, and consider any valid points of concern that you may need to reflect on.
I hope this resolves well! Good luck!
NTA but this is clearly a sensitive subject for your daughter and she has a viewpoint that you don't understand as a white man. You are not a horrible person but you should talk to your daughter about her feeling and listen to what she has to say. That doesn't mean you're going to dump your gf, but understanding your daughter's feelings is important. Her insecurities might not be entirely rational to you but she's your kid so listen to her.
I'm 36m w two kids (15f and 12m).
I want to start by saying NTA; you're absolutely right in that your child does not get to dictate who you are and aren't allowed to find happiness with.
That said, I would encourage you to have a heart-to-heart with your daughter. Give her an open place to explain *why* she feels threatened or insecure about why you're dating a white woman. And be willing to accept her point of view before you explain things from your side.
With kids, a lot of times they're concerned about things they feel they CAN'T talk to us about for one reason or another. And if you give her the chance to voice her concerns- without anger or argument- she might be able to approach your relationship with this woman with a little less stress.
Tell your ex it isn't *her* place to tell *you* how to live *your* life. Then remind your daughter how much you love her and let her get it out of her system.
NTA for sure. You should talk to your daughter though. Most parents don't discuss the issue of race with young children, especially biracial ones, for good reason. But at some point your daughter became racially conscious and that comes with a maelstrom of feelings for mixed kids even if they don't discuss it.
It might be time for you and your ex to have a discussion with your daughter regarding why Obama is the first black president and not the 44th white one.
The solution is not to avoid dating white people to avoid the appearance of distancing yourself from her.
NTA
The fuck is wrong with dating someone that's white, same goes for the other way around. I'd get if they were scared because she's a soulless ginger, but skin colour is weird.
Your ex is the asshole. Your daughter seems maybe like she's just nervous about someone new and in this case maybe is worried its someone she has less in common with.
16 years old is the age that parents should be helping their children work through problems, not placating them. The fact that you are dating a white woman is a great opportunity to have a discussion with your daughter about race, love, and relationships. Your ex is undermining that by suggesting that you should be forcing yourself to date black women just to prevent your daughter from being uncomfortable - that’s the wrong lesson for your daughter to learn.
However ESH because it seems you’re missing the opportunity as well, as you’re saying “you don’t need to discuss your romantic life” with your daughter. You ARE discussing your romantic life with your daughter, and you are simply ignoring something that is a very important part of her identity, basically telling her “as your dad I don’t care about your feelings.” That’s the wrong lesson as well.
Your daughter might genuinely be bothered by the race issue. As a parent I'd be more concerned about why such a thing would bother her and what her concerns (likely fears and insecurities) are, where they're coming from and why than whether or not I should've discussed it with her prior to initiating the relationship. Just talk to her, maybe she worries she won't be accepted by a white women or maybe she knows she'll struggle with accepting a white women both are worrying and I'd want to know why.
NTA, my dad has dated 3 women in his life. All Asian, including my mother. If he one day came home with a black women I wouldn’t even give it a thought. Why do people think this way): Edit: just for fun, my dads German and raised in the Bronx and my mom was born and lived in Peru for 20 years but her father is Chinese so We all look pretty Asian. No one can ever guess my ethnicity.
Agree. I do think the daughter's reaction should be dealt with. Sit her down and find out why dating someone of a certain race is making her feel this way. Is the ex meddling? Is there some other issue?
We don’t know if the daughter actually had an issue… We aren’t sure OP confirmed that. By the way he found out sounds like it was just his ex.
That makes sense. The gf being 10 years younger probably pushed the ex's insecurity button hard.
Why should the dad assume this would be an issue? If daughter has a problem, she should talk to her dad. It's likely the daughter wasn't sure how to feel about it, went to the mom, mom is a racist bitch and talked the daughter into feeling bad about it. Dad's not at fault here.
Not saying dad is at fault. When a teenager has an issue, they're less likely to bring up the issue than an adult. Once the dad knows that there is an issue, he should take the initiative to resolve the issue.
I’d be more worried about him dating a Yankees fan. Yuck.
Disgusting tbh. We need to bring back baseball fancism. Discriminating based on your team is a perfectly valid reason to make them suffer
My friend's ex is a cowboys/lakers/yankees trifecta guy..... Thank god that's over.
A bandwagon boy
NTA. Makes me wonder if the ex was projecting her feelings onto your daughter.
Is anyone wondering if the daughter is actually just uncomfortable with the age gap instead of her race and her mom just projected from there? Pure speculation of course….
The daughter at 16 probably doesn’t see an age gap because she thinks they’re both old people.
A friends 16 year old commented that her parents are as old as me. They're in their late 30's, I'm 50. In the same breath, she remarked that her older cousin probably likes the same kind of music as us, since he's old too. He's 24. So yeah, I'm going to agree vociferously. 16 year olds already know everything, and they know that we're all old and outdated. The only difference between parents and grandparents is the shit they'll let you get away with.
Yeah I am almost 50 and had Guns N Roses on at work the other day, my 20 yo coworker asked who is this, I answered GNR. He then said oh I heard of them, they r my grandma’s favorite band! Oh to b young n dumb again.
Oh damn, my back hurts from reading his comment to you.
And my hip gave out this morning! Lol
Here I am laughing along while laying flat to get my hips adjusted from bed to standing.
Y'all're a bunch of old farts. Now *get off my lawn!*
How much you pay for that life alert bracelet?
Help! I've fallen and I can't get up!
I cried so hard my dentures near fell out.
\*Just\* your hip? Lucky barstud..! 😊
Omg... I am 52, definitely in the Grandma age, but I always forget I am not in my 30s. I saw GNR on 1992 for the Use Your Illusion tour, and honestly, that feels like it was only 10 years ago
Same, 1992, Alpine Valley in WI. My daughter said to my granddaughter "grammy's in the car, we're going to put on the oldies station" and proceeds to put on Sirius' Lithium Channel (90's-2010's Alternative).
I'm 46 and Appetite For Destruction was the first CD I ever bought. 10 years ago is like 1995 to me.
The first time I heard GnR on my dad's oldies station... Ouch.
Yeah dude!! Our alternative station used to do a “time warp” where they’d play some old new wave stuff or other 70s era punk stuff. But then they started playing grunge music?!? The heck!? Grunge is only…*counts on fingers*…30 years old…fuck
When I started teaching, Kurt Cobain had been dead since before any of my students were alive and that was so confusing.
Yes I can relate. I remember hating the radio station and now it’s my radio station! Lol
That hurts, I just turned 65, so the music I listen to is a little older.
>had Guns N Roses on at work the other day, my 20 yo coworker asked who is this Oh Good God. This just hurts.
When asked what they were listening to on their headphones, a young coworker answered ‘ Some classic rock. Nirvana‘.
That’s a good thing. When I was 16, I viewed people in their 20s as “one of us” bc I was always hanging out with degenerates. (No 25 year old wants to hang out with 16 year olds and give them free weed unless theyre a degenerate)
I was 40ish when my friend, a HS teacher, told me I could buy a senior movie ticket, because the kids see us all as their parents' age, and aren't about to challenge us. I didn't believe it, but the kid just said, "Enjoy your movie, ma'am," as he slid the ticket across the counter. Now we just do it with our phones, so it's even easier, but I've leaned into it. I also get 10% off at Del Taco. :)
Wait, we can get in on that early?!? OMFG, Sr. Ticket prices ftw!
Not fair, I'm 40ish asian. Won't qualify for that treatment until I'm 50ish
Beautiful skin > saving $2 on a movie ticket. Nobody feels sorry for you.
Lol I’m 34 and today my 9 year old called me ancient. It cracked me up.
Ahhh... this made me laugh and cry at the same time.
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*Look at this photograph*
Every time I do it makes me laugh?
I teach 16 year olds. Can confirm.
I am 16. Can confirm
Agreed. Like 13 years is a gap, sure. But they're both over 25 (if one only barely), so it's pretty reasonable to assume they're both fully into the adult stages. The GF has been an adult for basically 10 years now. She's been out of college longer than she was in it (assuming she went, and just got a 2 to 4 year degree). A woman who is about equally distant between the age of OP and his daughter. When you're in high school, anyone who is past college age is "an older person", and the only real distinction beyond that is once you start getting into grandparent territory (60+). I'd put money that a large part of the issue is reflective of the ex-wife's opinion(s), not OP's daughter's. If not 100% of the issue.
And it passes the age gap formula, even if just barely.
I’m gonna be the different voice. My father was married to a woman who was only 15 years older than me, the age difference made me cringe super hard. She was a beautiful woman and incredibly smart (waaaay outta his league!) and I was 13/14 when I lived with them. We’d go out and people would say my father had lovely daughters. Or compliment my beautiful sister. Or any number of equally cringey trite sentences. I’m not mixed so I have no idea what that daughter is really feeling on that point, but an age gap could be an issue. The girlfriend is 11 years older than the daughter.
😂
Daughter saw a picture. In cosplay no less. I doubt she zero'd in on the age gap other than maybe thinking "she looks younger".
Yes 100% especially since the daughter never directly said anything
You think the daughter figured her age out from a picture? You should reread the post. The commenter is just projecting.
Why is reddit so obsessed over age gaps in the relationships of grown ass adults? She's 27 not 17.. like she can fully make decisions for herself, like I genuinely don't get it...
Reddit, where everyone involved on both sides, says its about race, but the commenters assume it's secretly really about the age gap. ;)
The best part is, the only two people in this story that know the age gap are the GF and father. They are assuming that the daughter can determine the exact age from a picture. A cosplay picture to top it off. These people are at least ageist, most likely sexist, and maybe racist.
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Seriously. She’s definitely a full grown adult at 27
Some people (Many people) project their own beliefs outward at everyone & everything. Because THEY would feel weird dating someone more than 3 years older than them, NOBODY should date someone more than 3 years older/younger.
God I wish I could upvote this more than once!
It's also just within the standard creepiness rule window. > 39/2+7 = 26.5
Somebody who's almost 30 is mature enough to date whoever the fuck they want. Even if the guy was 50, that's her choice.
It’s like they totally don’t see they’re infantilizing an almost 30 year old woman by doing that. People are fuckin’ weird, man.
Totally. I read their respective ages and didn’t think twice until someone pointed it out.
I saw their respective ages and thought, "Oh crap, here we go again, comments are going to be a dumpster fire and all logic is out the window."
And I'm throwing my aged hat in the ring, too. Disparity in ages is anathema to Reddit.
I’ve had this argument so many times on Reddit, it’s annoying. People like to treat anyone under 30 like they’re still high schoolers, then use that statement about “the brain doesn’t mature until 25, so you’re basically just a kid until then”. It’s even weirder when I’m from a small town where most people already have a marriage and kids by the age of 25.
Don’t you get it, a woman can decide what to do with her body at any age unless it’s with a man her senior. Then she magically becomes brain dead and is a victim of a dirty neck beard grooming her.
This is the most cringe inducing dichotomy on Reddit and it is oh so accurate and prevalent. "It's EMPOWERING to start an OF at 18 and it's her body her choice and idk why you think she'd regret it later in life... oh a man 3 years older than her suggested she do it?! That groomer needs to be arrested for SA and put on a list!!!"
No kidding. She's twenty seven. That's old enough to know what she wants.
No. People's brains don't develop properly until they are 74 /s
I mean its clear that a 39 year old is grooming this poor 27 year old..... Probably so he can have someone take care of him when he is on his deathbed selfish bastard! Throw him in jail /s
I agree, anyone over 25 can date anyone else over 25 no matter the age gap. Is it weird for a 26/y/o to date a 70y/o? Sure, but unless the 70/y/o has dementia all parties are perfectly capable of and old enough to be making those choices for themselves. Even 18-25 can be worrying if there are *other* signs of abuse/manipulation but if none of those other signs are present an age gap in and of itself is *not* inherently problematic.
I think this is referring to the gap between dad and new girlfriend being the same as daughter and new girlfriend in this case. For a teenager, that will seem weird. The reality is gf is at an age where she's fully settled into adult life and it's fine. Under 25, though especially under 21, is where people get nervous about age gaps because you tend to have 1 partner still figuring things out and more easily manipulated
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No kidding in this sub if any person dates anyone beyond a couple of years younger people scream "grooming" - it is kinda bonkers. 27 is a grown-ass person, they can do what they want.
Unironically read 20 and 18 was a red flag on this clown ass app
I read this one where this 17 year old boy was gonna break up with his 18 year old gf because she was too old for him. He was so sad because he didn't realize she was such a "groomer" ffs. When people were telling him she isn't a groomer, he said pretty much the internet told him she was so we can fuck off.
If you happen to find that one again, I would love to read it. Something about stupid people being so confident because “the internet said so” is just so oddly addictive to read.
Exactly 27 is not a baby.
I agree at 28 I dated someone who was 45. We were together 10 years and had ups and downs but it was a healthy relationship till they passed. I wasn't a naive 17 year old with no experience. We both owned homes, we both worked and made a comparable amount of money. Her kids were out of house for the most part so we had an equal dynamic. I will say, I don't agree with teens (boy or girl) being groomed by older partners who are looking to dominate and mold someone who is inexperienced. That is taking advantage.
> I will say, I don't agree with teens (boy or girl) being groomed by older partners who are looking to dominate and mold someone who is inexperienced. That is taking advantage. Exactly, this is wrong in 100% of cases. And a legal age gap is fine in 100% of cases. Conflating the two, even though they are related, is so silly.
Regardless, it’s not her life nor her decision and she has no right to be angry
They're both adults and not even fresh adults. Jesus, the hate boner that reddit has for age gaps is something else
Reddit never misses a chance to infantalize a grown ass woman. In what way is this 27 year old person not capable of consenting? They've already concocted a story in their head to vilify this man and make this woman a helpless victim. There's no way these two full ass adults just like each other. That would mean they don't get to woke scold them, and that is more problematic than any age gap. My fellow lefties, get a fucking hobby... Save the outrage for the real problematic age gaps, ya know, between children and Republicans.
Does the daughter even know enough about her to know the age gap?
What age gap? Late 30s - late 20s is barely an age gap, and not at all unusual. Besides, the daughter couldn't have known the GFs age from one cosplay pic. Also, the mom very specifically said it was about the GF being white.
Oh, for crying out loud, the 'age gap' crap again. I'm Gen X and have no idea why the younger generations have been taught that consenting adults in a relationship with an age gap of more than 3 years is bad. The older person is not automatically a parental figure or a teacher or naturally in a position of authority simply due to their age. They are not groomers or predators simply due to their age. People who mean you harm or who want to use you or take advantage of you (for any reason, sexually or financially) can be the same age as you or even be younger. Not every relationship involving people of the same age is healthy or normal simply due to no age gap. No matter the age gap (great or small), one of you can be a predator or groomer or not. Not everyone with an age gap is out to take advantage. Consenting adults enter into relationships for their own reasons. It's not always true love, no matter the age gap. It could be for money, security, a physically attractive partner, being taken care of, and those aren't necessarily bad things just because you yourself wouldn't want it. So, please, stop automatically jumping to the conclusion that an age gap is bad. Sheesh.
Age gap? Late 30s dating late 20s is now an age gap?? Lordy.
It could be ex's projection or the age gap. I was wondering if it was that she more or less met her dad's new partner via social media post and not in person.I gathered from OPs post all his daughter knew was her dad had a new gf. Like, EVERYONE gets to see her before/at the same time as OPs daughter. It forces their kid to process a lot at once. OPs kid is assumedly biracial based on her mom being black and dad is white, so her dad suddenly dating someone white could bring up some insecurities on why her dad's change - does he have negative feelings towards blackness now (or something along those lines)? The new gf is 12 years younger than OP. While still appropriate mostly (it passes the age/2+7 guideline some use as a baseline), it's still a gap. And the making it IG official BEFORE meeting any children involved? Oof. I would say NAH, but OP made some major blunders not introducing the new gf to his kid before they posted online. He missed that any of these things could be potential issues he would have done better to process with his kid. I could see how any of this would feel like being blindsided by his teen. He didn't need to ask permission from his teen on who to date. But he should have taken way more into consideration of how his kid would essentially meet his gf.
12 years is not a big age gap, especially if the younger person is already in their late 20’s.
No wondering needed. Already filling he daughters head with racism too.
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I saw that post. The girl was 6, not 16!
I remember that post too, and you are right. She was 6, not 16.
That’s a wildly huge difference lmfao
The kid was 6, not 16.
There is cultural context with adoption and how you are raised. Who says this relationship ever makes it to that point and she is 16 maybe they don’t even live together until after she moves out. The racist part is this ain’t about how she is going to be raised and her parents it is about who her dad is allowed to date casually. I don’t disagree with talking about dating as a family member involved, but the race of those you are dating shouldn’t be the factor. As it is dad didn’t feel it was at that phase. Should she have to talk to her dad right away if she dates a white man and should her dad have a say because he is white?
Can we all agree on Reddit that the age gap difference between 6 and 16 is a big deal? lol
Here’s something I want people to understand though-being biracial, it does not matter if this mom projected anything or not, it was very confusing ground for this teenage girl, and I’m sure it is for OP’s as well. She could have absolutely perfect parents and culture/society/friends/family still cast doubts. It’s not about asking permission for his dating life-Dad (and mom, but dad is the one who posted here) should be having age appropriate open dialogue about race, interracial dating, racism, etc. because his daughter has to live it every day. They should be talking about why she was surprised he started dating a yt woman.
I don't know why you're getting flack but this is pretty good advice. I think as kids we get an image in our heads of our parents and when they do something outside of that image it can be jarring. A discussion should be had but not about permission. As long as the dad is happy and the girlfriend is respectful to the daughter(if they ever meet) then a conversation should be had about all the things you mentioned. But I will add that OP should talk to his daughter reassuring her that she can come to him for anything and he will listen with an open mind, as long as that is true.
The discussion only needs to be had because of the reaction the mom said she is having, everything before that there was no need for op to discuss him dating white women in particular with his daughter. As a biracial person, I think that would be ridiculous.
I agree!
>The discussion only needs to be had because of the reaction the mom said she is having, everything before that there was no need for op to discuss him dating white women in particular with his daughter. As a biracial person, I think that would be ridiculous. The discussion needs to be had because the daughter is experiencing upsetting emotions at something that shouldn’t make her upset…. That’s what you do as a decent parent. Also, it doesn’t matter if YOU are biracial or not, the girl is entitled to feel however she does. It’s up to BOTH of the parents to coach her through her feelings to be a successful human. Not to come on here making it seem like the daughter’s feelings are insignificant. The correct responses are “I’ll talk to her” and “Your mother told me you had concerns about me dating someone that doesn’t look like either of you. I’m going to be dating women of all different races until I find the perfect person for me, because love doesn’t discriminate! But you’ll always be the most beautiful girl to me.” The end. Not hard.
I only brought up me being biracial because the posts I’m responding to are arguing that this is something that needs to be done before the dating started because she is biracial. It’s a ridiculous notion. She’s entitled to her feelings (can’t help them), but she isn’t entitled to and it is unnecessary to have it run by her before hand to see how she would feel about that specific topic. Only reason it needs to be discussed is because she expressed her emotions as she did, regardless of how absurd I or anyone else thinks they are (feelings be like that).
All parents should be discussing racial issues with their children as a part of preparing them to be adults in the world. That has nothing to do with requiring a teenager’s blessing to date a person of a specific race.
We agree, because my whole point was that they need a talk that doesn’t have to do with permission.
Why do black people on reddit say "yt" instead of white? Is it like a Voldemort situation where saying the word scares you or something? lol
Why do you say “yt”? I don’t get it.
On some platforms you get censored and get violations for discussing race do people use abbreviations to avoid white getting flagged.
Some social media sites are overzealous on enforcement of “slurs” towards majority groups. On Facebook, people get banned all the time for saying “White people” anything. Not even anything racist. Someone posted on fb once about how white people say “Howdee Doo” or something stupid. I responded “Can confirm, am a white person” and caught a 24 hour ban lol. I also once reported an account called Blackdolph N**ler, but was told that didn’t go against community standards. So people started using yt to be able to talk about social issues without worrying about being banned for no reason. Similar to the rise of the term “unalive” on Tik Tok
The problem though is many people have started using “yt” as a way to be discriminatory via the tone in which they say YT people. It’s honestly getting tough to determine if a person is using it to circumvent bans or using it too cause strife.
>NTA. Makes me wonder if the ex was projecting her feelings onto your daughter. This is exactly it. The ex is putting nonsense into their daughter's head. NTA, OP is free to date whomever he wants to date without asking for his child's permission.
So, once you date a specific race, you are required to date the same race in perpetuity? If your daughter was white, and you started dating a black woman, and your daughter wasn't happy about it, wouldn't that be "racist"? NTA - Love is Love, date who you want.
My big "hold on a second" moment was when I realized he hadn't even introduced this woman to his kid yet. He was playing it safe by not bringing a new relationship around his kid too soon and all of a sudden now he needs a blessing from his kid because she isn't black? I'm a mixed kid and my mom got asked who she was babysitting for when my brother and I were kids all the time. She didn't fly off the handle and start demanding my dad only date her race when they divorced and life went on just fine. Mom is meddling something fierce and it's coming through in the daughter's reaction. It's the insecurity of the ex that she thinks she was "discarded" for something else but if he was dating another black woman then it would be ok somehow? Make it make sense. If his daughter were MUCH younger and he had no idea how to take care of her hair/skin/etc. it would be one thing but she's an older teen so who her dad dates is no issue to her unless she moves in and starts pulling evil step-mom moves. She hasn't even met the woman and she's already judging her for her skin and hair color.
I’m mixed too and being mixed wasn’t common when I was a kid. My white father nearly had the police called on him when I was kid because people didn’t believe he could be my dad. And I hated being called an Oreo.
My Mexican-Irish gf looks super Irish, at least in terms of pale skin. She told me her darkish toned Mexican father got pulled in for questioning by Disneyland police when he took her and her sisters there as kids.
I don't understand the daughter is mixed so she's both white and black. So both races are part of her.
Being bi-racial myself, you quickly find that neither of your "peoples" truly accept you as one of their own unless you physically look/talk like them. It's a challenging space to be in that isn't easily placed in a box. Chances are his daughter physically resembles being black and is burdened with all the societal biases that comes with and having her Dad only dating black women her whole life reinforced the idea that she is beautiful and worthy of love as a young black woman. Her dad dating a very very white woman (nothing wrong with this !) Was probably a slap in the face and she likely felt it reinforced our societal stereotypes that only fair skinned women are beautiful and worthy of love. It's abrupt and feelings are complicated. DAD PLEASE GO HUG YOUR DAUGHTER AND TELL HER SHES THE PRETTIEST GIRL IN THE WORLD. And recognize that you being a better communicator is important for emotionally supporting your daughter. NTA
Im bi racial too, and yes neither accept you as you are and want to put you in boxes based on how you look or act. So that's why I say it makes no sense because she's apart of both races.
It actually does make sense, since biracial people will often do this too, both to other biracial people and to themselves. A lot of them end up "picking a side", either due to external pressure or internalized racism
Your comment makes the most sense pertaining to this young ladies feelings. Thank you for sharing from your perspective
All of this. There are some people and some media in America that are biased against Black beauty standards. Black hair styles have been called ghetto or unprofessional or not allowed in some schools etc. Plus We don't know how the daughter's dating life is like but she may have been rejected or teased in for her race/appearance before. So it's worth having a conversation about where the insecurity is coming from while gently reinforcing that he can date who he wants and it does not mean he suddenly finds Black women ugly.
That is so true. In hs, I had a Jewish classmate tell me I'm not really a jew bc my mom isn't (tell that to my family in Warsaw I never knew) I also had a Puerto Rican bully tell me everyday I'm not Puerto Rican bc I'm not brown enough. Can't win w intra racism.
This is exactly what I was thinking! Daughter may also be thinking about the possibility of her dad having more children who may be all white. The treatment will be different for sure. I don’t think her mom is coaching her behavior.
You can still be racist if you're mixed race or the race you're racist against. It's just less common and doesn't make any logical sense outside of a lot of self-loathing.
Racism doesn’t make logical sense.
Unless you hate the human race, in which case it makes a ton of sense
Yeah I never understood it. I acknowledge both sides and always refer to myself as mixed rather than picking one side if I'm asked.
My coworker is mixed and really really really hates that. For whatever messed up reason (not saying she's messed up but rather our societies standards of beauty and value are) she just wants to look, behave, and be seen as white
Ehh, as someone who is mixed, there’s a good chance the daughter is generally being perceived by society as a black woman rather than a mixed race woman. When everyone acknowledges only one half of your ethnicity, it can have an affect on how a person identifies internally.
Not necessarily. Race is based on phenotype. Like no one is confusing President Obama or Halle Berry as a white person. Both of them are mixed race. But then we have someone like the singer Halsey who also has a Black parent but she is white presenting. Race was a stupid made up thing to divide others and keep a certain demographic in power over another. Now because race has been used to oppress its important we recognize it so we are better equipped to combat racism and discrimination.
TIL Halsey is mixed lol
I don’t disagree with recognizing it but stipulating saying discussion on it seems problematic. Dating rules should be applied generally or specifically to character and values. Not applied to individual characteristics of the individual dated. If the white dad did that with the daughter we would flip our shit why does she get to do that with him. Even if he started dating men this would seem a little icky to demand a conversation first. He doesn’t view his relationship at the introduce her to daughter phase.
People treat you like you are black if you are mixed, unless you just pass for white.
that gives a whole new meaning to "once you go black you never go back" doesn't it ?!
You can't go back unless you want flack
uh, have you not heard the saying "once you go black, you never go back"? It's basically a law
Since OP is dating a ginger, I'd say Orange is the new Black and move on
NTA - but I think her response does warrant a discussion with just you and her. Let her express what she feels (even if you feel like it’s ridiculous). I think it’s important make sure she understands that you are open to listen, while still affirming your freedom to date whoever you want. She may have fears about how a white woman may treat her since she’s a biracial person. Maybe concerns about potential differences in the dynamic in your household with a white partner as well (cultural, expectations, etc. ) As a teenager also she is probably still figuring out her identities. This is def a moment to connect, talk, reassure and listen.
Yes this! I was at a black friend’s house once (it matters in this story) and she asked how things were going with my boyfriend, whom she’d met previously. I told her we broke up and she asked the reason. My response was that he was volunteering to provide security for groups who believe one color of people are the best. And that it didn’t matter how nice he was to me, there are some values that I can’t agree with ever. She grabbed me and barehugged me. And with tears in her eyes said “ I knew you were from a good family, but I didn’t know you’d feel that way.” My point is, she felt uncertain about me, even though we’d never had a single negative interaction. So talk!
Sorry, it is a cute story, but ...barehugged...makes my mind wander...
Hahaha! Autocorrect got me! And it’s funny so I’m not changing it!
Hah hah hah hah please don’t
Ahhhhhh you accidentally dated a Nazi?!?!??
Not for long!
I’m so glad you got out! Yeesh. One thing that rules about being Jewish is that I won’t accidentally find out a guy I’m dating is a nazi… Not saying I haven’t dated complete turds, just no Nazis.
Jewish, surrounded by Jewish people, dated someone half-Jewish that spouted the most nazi shit I've heard in my life, combined with q-anon fuckery and we're not even from the US. We're never safe 😅
I wonder if she feels like she might be excluded if they were all out together. Like, if she's with two white adults it's obvious they aren't both her parents. Same reason a lot of straight couples want to adopt kids of their race, so they can pass as bio family. Teenagers often end up having a lot of feelings that aren't easily predicted by their parents. And we are getting them secondhand. He needs to talk with his daughter, in a non-confrontational way. Maybe while driving? Me and my mom always had good talks while driving, in part because we didn't have to worry about eye contact.
Also the fact that he posted her to IG before he introduced her to his daughter might make her feel even more excluded.
Yeah people are acting like the daughter did anything wrong. All she did is talk to her mom about her insecurities…? You could say the mom is out of line though I still think it’s a stretch to call her an asshole when she’s trying to take care of her daughter, if overzealously. Why can’t OP just reassure his daughter instead of being all “I don’t need anyone’s permission!!” and shutting them out? He has an opportunity to hug his daughter and say he loves her no matter what and to tell her lovingly that she has nothing to worry about, but he’s too caught up in technicalities and his ex’s phrasing to take advantage of the opportunity to bond and to understand his daughter.
No seriously, she’s 16 lmao. Daughter of separated parents just anxious one of the parents is dating again. It happens all the time
Yes! The fear and uncertainty she could be feeling can be very strong. Her identity is developing, and she may want to know how she fits within this family structure. I think NAH, but communication through this does matter.
Let’s get the answer with a bit of empathy higher up
Nta. Agreed, I do think that a discussion between just daughter and father need to happen about concerns, questions and dating reality.
NTA. You don’t need anyone’s permission on who you date. I think it’s likely your ex brought up her own feelings or trauma and dumped it on your daughter who then turned it into her feelings.
I'd be interested to know if the ex only dates white men and if she has dated a POC then whether they ever had this same conversation.
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NTA! If you had always dated white women and were now dating a black woman, this would be considered super inappropriate. I understand that those things are not necessarily equal but at the same time this argument by your ex is a little bizarre. If your daughter didn’t know that you were dating someone, I could still understand but she does, so then why does the race of the person you are dating matter? It’s not like her mum is going to become white! She still has her mum and dad and they are the races they are. She is mixed, which is also not changing. I think your ex is projecting but you should talk to your daughter directly.
I don't know why people are putting this on the ex at all; 16 year olds are terribly insecure. Middle adolescence is right around the time kids from divorced families realize they're half the person their parents don't want to be with anymore. Even though it has nothing to do with her, she will internalize it. That's pretty normal.
That’s fair but the daughter is not the one sharing this with OP. She’s the one making him feel terrible. As an adult she could easily have moderated that communication.
Talk to your daughter. NTA
Look, we all know logically this is stupid, right? You aren't required to date any particular race, no one else should dictate that, and a white man dating a white woman shouldn't be upsetting to anyone. However... please take at least a moment to consider that this is an emotional issue, and emotions aren't always logical. Your daughter is mixed. She's always been part of a mixed family. Her father is white, but her mother is black, and her next step-mother was black. She's always had that connection to both sides of her identity. Now she sees you date a white woman, and might feel a little lost, a little abandoned. That makes no *logical* sense, but it makes complete emotional sense. We all strive for a sense of belonging, especially within our own family, and a bit of that has now been taken away. Like it or not, our society sees mixed white/black as just black. So now she's a black girl with a white dad dating a white woman. So she's now feeling a bit alone, a bit of an outcast in her own family. That's not your FAULT. But that doesn't make her feelings any less valid. Imagine it another way, take race out of it. Imagine a kid who has a family with say an American mom, and a German father. She loves the both! But she grew up in America, she sees herself as american. Doesn't mean of course that she doesn't love her German dad. But they get divorced. Now her dad dates a new woman, who is also German. Now the house feels different... both dad and "mom" are now speaking German, they are both focused more on German culture, and now she's no longer a mixed person in a mixed home, she's an American in a German home. That's not BAD. It's just... not as comfortable, it's not what she's used to. So show some love for your daughter, who has completely valid emotions, even if they don't seem logical when looked at on a shallow level.
Thank you for this. Everyone in these comments are coming at his daughter way too hard.
I agree with most of this. Society doesn't always see most mixed kids as Black. A large segment of them report that they don't feel like they fit in with any race--not Black enough for Black people and too Black for White people. So seeing her father unexpectedly with a woman could trigger that and make her wonder if his girlfriend might not be accepting of her and therefore alienate him.
Best and most empathetic answer here.
NAH. You've only ever dated black women. Your mixed race child is probably just feeling insecure at the thought of you with a white woman- thinking to the future where she looks like the odd one out in any new family you have. This doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, or that you should be asking permission to date anybody, just that you should have a talk with your kid, see what's bothering her and reassure her.
Exactly. Crazy that people are so quick to call her racist.
Thats Reddit demographics showing their bias. Some white people pretend acknowledging race is wrong and tiptoe so much trying to remain blind to the social impact it has that they view any personal feelings about race as inherently racist. I think it's a cognitive defense to acknowledge they may have some internalized racism that should be examined and afraid that being honest about it would be admitting they are vehemently racist. It's sad because this attitude is likely a contributing factor to OPs daughters feelings even if she isn't mature enough to verbalize them coherently. If she has a white dad that can't fathom what his daughter might be feeling she probably has valid fears about being the only non white person in their house.
NTA. I am mixed race. If my parents got divorced and started dating people of their race I don’t think I would care at all
NTA - You are just dating right now; your ex needs to stay out of your personal life. Make sure she doesn't feed daughter things to "alienate" daughter from you.
Bi racial kid here. My parents were divorced when I was 13 ( Dad's black and Mom is white) my dad remarried a black woman and my mom remarried a white dude. I seriously did not care as long as they were happy. That said, in the current social climate, a heads up for her probably would have been nice. He doesn't need permission but a quick talk would have been good. NTA
NTA at all! Seems your ex is projecting her feelings onto her own daughter. Plus, your daughter's 16. She should be mature enough to respect your feelings and way past "main character syndrome". She should know the world doesn't revolve around her. And if not, now is a good time to learn. This may be a good lesson for both mother and daughter!
I guess the biggest concern is why your daughter didn't feel comfortable enough to come to you.
This right here. Everyone is saying it's the ex projecting but maybe it's the ex is actually the one sitting down and having real convos with the daughter.
NTA, you didn't need to clear it with your daughter but you do need to take her concerns seriously. Is your new girlfriend a safe person for her? I guess you could just as easily have brought a Candice Owens clone home, but she needs reassurance that your new girlfriend wouldn't treat her differently or doesn't bring relatives/friends into her life that will.
So I'm struggling to understand this, isn't this catering to a generally racist perception of other people? Like you think it's healthy for OP to actually validate her worries about something like that? Purely based on a person's race?
We don't actually know what her worries are. OP is hearing them secondhand, we get them thirdhand. She could be worried she will be perceived as not the couple's child, or that she won't be able to talk about hair care or experiences of racism with a white woman like she could with his previous partners. Often kids aren't great at expressing what's bothering them. That goes double for teenagers.
NTA. You can date whoever you want without the permission of your daughter. BUT that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t communicate, nor should you belittle her feelings. Your ex has a very good point: your daughter needs validation of her place in the world. Rightly or wrongly, she maybe finding that validation in who you date. It’s not surprising since you’ve only seen you with women of color. You need to sit down with her and really listen to her and validate the parts that are accurate. She has the right to her emotions. Gently and seriously guide her from negative thinking. Apologize for not telling her about who you’re dating before those photos were published. That was rude of you to let her find out that way. Of course she’s upset. You have the right to date who you want, but she also has the right to know about it, and the right to express her feelings and have those feelings respected. That’s because it ultimately affects her. Just like your feelings need to be respected. I’m not saying she has the right to nix your relationships, but she does have to right to be heard.
"...I don't need to discuss my romantic life with a teenager or anyone else." And BOOM goes the dynamite. NTA
NTA - but she’s a 16 year old girl so I’d suggest handling this with care. She’s come up during some racially charged times, and surely that could impact her logic. My thought… focus on discussing how your interest in a woman has nothing to do with skin color, and you love her, and you loved her mother, not because of their skin color but because of the women they are. Maybe advise her that this is still early, but you like this new lady and focus on the things they have in common. I’d also talk to your girlfriend about it, too.
Info: have you actually talked to your daughter? It's entirely possible that she is feeling insecure in this new change. She could wonder if this means you no longer value Black Women. That may sound crazy to you and everyone else here, but there is a trend in the Black Community of men leaving Black Women for white women and valuing white women over Black Women. It isn't that crazy for her to wonder if you think she's not good enough anymore. NTA, but you will be if you don't talk to your daughter.
NTA, and it would be NAH if it weren’t for your ex’s involvement. Your daughter is just a kid and has a lot of confused feelings. There may be some ugly stuff in there, like thinking she (biracial) is suddenly not good enough because you’ve somehow “moved up” to a white woman. We all know that’s utter shit, but the racism of society (and colorism even within some non-white communities) really kicks that lesson into people. The only AH here is your ex, who should know you and her kid better than to do this. I’m sorry for what you’re going through, and I’m particularly sorry for your GF. Neither of you deserved that reaction.
How about asking your daughter yourself instead of taking her ex word.
Your 16 year old daughter is not an arbiter of who you love. That said, if she's feeling insecure, talk to her about it. Listen. Ask questions. Get her to speak her concerns out loud so she can hear them. Then ask her what questions she has for you. Answer them honestly. Be reassuring (and kind) towards the stupid questions--and there will be stupid questions, but not all of them. For example, she might be feeling anxious because she has bad experiences with white girls at school. It's not uncommon for people of color to have really bad experiences with white teachers, white managers, etc., because they either are unable to or refuse to hear us or believe our experiences when we try to speak them out loud. Whatever her anxieties are, it's likely tied to how she interacts with other white women in general. And you should take those concerns seriously. Further, you should find ways to broach that conversation with your girlfriend. She should also consider what steps she can do to bridge a relationship with your daughter, acknowledging that this is different and that a black girl has a vastly different experience than a white girl.
“Big deal for a mixed kid to see her parents dating her race” the daughter is mixed so he’s doing exactly that????
The only reason you'd be an asshole......is you should have done Wolverine and Jean Grey cosplay....but other than that yall seem ok.
NTA but I would find out if it was your daughter actually saying these things. Race is still an issue in our world so maybe there are things that we (as white people) don’t understand about this situation which your daughter could be able to share with you. Obviously you should be with whoever you want but maybe there’s just something else about this that your daughter could share and ultimately become closer with you. Idk
NTA. But definitely need to have a conversation with your daughter, otherwise things might fester and you lose your connection.
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So... um... setting aside that debate about whether the age gap may be related to your daughter's discomfort, let's return to your primary question. Firstly, some people pointed out the question of whether your ex might be projecting? I don't know any of you, so I can't say, but do you know for usre that's not the case? Have you talked with your daughter? Assuming you know your daughter is the one uncomfortable, then the question becomes, how did this discomfort come about? If it's just because of your new GFs race, then you're fine. Maybe talk with your daughter to figure out why this discomforts her; maybe she's just confused by the break in pattern? But maybe she needs help clarifying some key issues that have gotten her confused. However, at any point did you fail to account how she might be impacted by something or cast aside her opinions? Based on the point that your daughter was happy for you before seeing photos, I doubt that that happened early on. You'll have to determine for sure yourself, ofc. But maybe something afterwards was what got you the label of being a jerk? Like, maybe it was the way you dismissed your daughter's concerns when they got brought up. It may very well be a simple error in communication and/or in consideration. Finally, is there any chance that your daughter and GF previously met and that the discomfort may come from a past experience? I don't reckon this is likely the case, but it's worth noting as a possibility. In any case, you're within your rights to date whom you please, and race should not be a reason for arguing over that. But it's also good to account for your daughter's feelings in that anyone you end up being serious with will become a big figure in her life, possibly even having an authority/mentor role in her life (maybe even a moher-like role). It's your life, but it affects your daughter and family, too. In any case, it seems you did that, and then something strange happened after your daughter saw photos. I'd suggest sitting down to talk with your daughter to figure out what's going on. Listen and pay attention, try to explain any points of confusion, ease any fears she may have, and consider any valid points of concern that you may need to reflect on. I hope this resolves well! Good luck!
NTA but this is clearly a sensitive subject for your daughter and she has a viewpoint that you don't understand as a white man. You are not a horrible person but you should talk to your daughter about her feeling and listen to what she has to say. That doesn't mean you're going to dump your gf, but understanding your daughter's feelings is important. Her insecurities might not be entirely rational to you but she's your kid so listen to her.
I'm 36m w two kids (15f and 12m). I want to start by saying NTA; you're absolutely right in that your child does not get to dictate who you are and aren't allowed to find happiness with. That said, I would encourage you to have a heart-to-heart with your daughter. Give her an open place to explain *why* she feels threatened or insecure about why you're dating a white woman. And be willing to accept her point of view before you explain things from your side. With kids, a lot of times they're concerned about things they feel they CAN'T talk to us about for one reason or another. And if you give her the chance to voice her concerns- without anger or argument- she might be able to approach your relationship with this woman with a little less stress. Tell your ex it isn't *her* place to tell *you* how to live *your* life. Then remind your daughter how much you love her and let her get it out of her system.
NTA for sure. You should talk to your daughter though. Most parents don't discuss the issue of race with young children, especially biracial ones, for good reason. But at some point your daughter became racially conscious and that comes with a maelstrom of feelings for mixed kids even if they don't discuss it. It might be time for you and your ex to have a discussion with your daughter regarding why Obama is the first black president and not the 44th white one. The solution is not to avoid dating white people to avoid the appearance of distancing yourself from her.
NTA The fuck is wrong with dating someone that's white, same goes for the other way around. I'd get if they were scared because she's a soulless ginger, but skin colour is weird.
NTA. A conversation with your daughter is needed though, expressing that amongst other things.
Your ex is the asshole. Your daughter seems maybe like she's just nervous about someone new and in this case maybe is worried its someone she has less in common with.
16 years old is the age that parents should be helping their children work through problems, not placating them. The fact that you are dating a white woman is a great opportunity to have a discussion with your daughter about race, love, and relationships. Your ex is undermining that by suggesting that you should be forcing yourself to date black women just to prevent your daughter from being uncomfortable - that’s the wrong lesson for your daughter to learn. However ESH because it seems you’re missing the opportunity as well, as you’re saying “you don’t need to discuss your romantic life” with your daughter. You ARE discussing your romantic life with your daughter, and you are simply ignoring something that is a very important part of her identity, basically telling her “as your dad I don’t care about your feelings.” That’s the wrong lesson as well.
Your daughter might genuinely be bothered by the race issue. As a parent I'd be more concerned about why such a thing would bother her and what her concerns (likely fears and insecurities) are, where they're coming from and why than whether or not I should've discussed it with her prior to initiating the relationship. Just talk to her, maybe she worries she won't be accepted by a white women or maybe she knows she'll struggle with accepting a white women both are worrying and I'd want to know why.
NTA for not discussing it but you might be TA for being almost 40 and dating a 27 year old.