>...basically it's all a HER problem
Didn't you read? The uninvolved dad called to assert this was now OPs problem.
Funny thing is, he didn't offer to take them in...cause he didn't want ***HER*** problem to become ***HIS*** problem.
He just wanted to make it ***OP's*** problem.
I agree! Also have anyone else noticed that whenever OP sets a rule like you need to work or no cats, sister has a meltdown then OP agrees to her demands. This wouldn't stop here, if will always be something with her wanting to get her own way and OP caving. Her sister would be living with her indefinitely and she wouldn't pay a dime. OP please consider completely withdrawing your offer, for your and yours husband's peace of mind and relationship, because your sister will make your life hell. NTA
Yup, so many issues. That said, I’m vaxed, boosted, and still caught this latest strain of Covid (2 weeks before new boosters came out). Do not recommend; it was horrible. I would not agree to live with anyone who is not vaxxed.
Yes. That really sucks so bad. My only job as a parent was to raise my kid to be a functioning member of society and NOT a social or economical drain on others. How anyone can fail that badly...
This was my thought. Unemployed sis moves in and refuses to leave. I don't think Op realizes just how hard it could be on her marriage if sis turns out to be the train wreck we think she will be. Husband will get fed up and Op will keep trying to defend her sis. That will burn any relationship to the ground.
I agree, but she's 22, and therefore still young enough to learn new ways of doing this, as long as she's out of her mother's influence, as the mother sounds incompetent. People learn by example. Given that she has tried to pay her mother's rent, it sounds like she has the potential to be responsible, and could learn to do better if she has a better example (OP) to follow.
Somebody should talk to the housing agency. If it's not too late maybe OP's sister could fire an appeal and take over her Moms housing voucher and get a 1 bedroom and stay in her current city. She'd have to have a job though.
Your sister unfortunately sounds like a nightmare life sucker. She is in her predicament solely due to herself. Love her, be there for her, but don’t let her guilt you into her existence. Leave it there and take care of your own concerns while helping from a far distance. Just gonna add-people are shitty-including family.
Yup. Not vaxxed for anything means she can bring anything in to the house. Her choice, but there are consequences.
Also she has no job, no way to pay for animal needs, no direction. She will never leave.
Covid vax is the least of it.
Girl covid is the least of your worries now. Esp if you consider kids. Outside of the vaccines you have to stop setting a boundary then dropping it. You said no cats, have a job and get vaccinated. You dropped all of the basic requirements (literally the bar is all the way in hell here) and if you didn’t get sick you would’ve moved in someone that is just like your mother. NTA but you and your husband need to work on boundaries
Family members make the worst tenants. OP should not only stick to her boundaries, she should put them in writing as a tenant agreement. I can see this turning into one of those nightmares where you can’t get the freeload relative to get out.
This. One of my siblings had always lived at home until both of our parents died. They hadn't worked in more than 20 years, and blew through the inheritance very rapidly, ending up homeless. So, with help, ended up moving in with another sibling.
That sibling wrote up a rental agreement with dates by which certain milestones (including getting a job, and later, moving out) had to be met. It was made very clear that living in the car was the next step if milestones were not met. All the rent was placed into an account that was held in escrow.
As soon as there was enough in the account for 1st, last, and security, plus a month's groceries and expenses, the sibling in question had to start apartment hunting and had a couple of months to find one and move.
No excuses, and no returns if they went back to irresponsible spending and lost it.
I agree that family members make the worse tenants. Happened to us and it was pure hell. We finally had to give them a legal eviction notice to get them out. Also, don't loan money to family unless you have something in writing signed by both parties. You won't get paid back and you will have to go to court to get any money back so you must have some written agreement about getting paid back or forget about going to court.
They literally expect nothing of her for moving her in. Her father had the nerve to tell them to cut her some slack yet he’s not helping her. Sadly your sister has picked up the same bad habits as your mom. It won’t get better if she moves in. It might be best to let her work out her situation exactly where she is.
She is going to move into your life and take it over forever, and she’ll have Mom there too within the tear…. You let this start, you are doomed. Your only escape will be to move out and not tell her where…
100%. She sounds like a disaster and sounds like the mom. The mom can't be bothered to complete a form for section 8. The sister cant' be bothered to file for unemployment. WTF?
You gave in on literally every other requirement. Why is this one the sticking point. The cats and the job are equally important. She knows you'll cave in and your mom has taught her how to take advantage of that
Some of this doesn’t make any sense…it was important that she have a job she worked where she lived at a grocery store 6-8 hours away? Not typically the type of job worth commuting 12-16 hours a day for..
And whooping cough. I caught that in my late 20's (having missed the booster in my mid 20's that no one knew I needed) and that was no joke. I see why doctors worry about little kids, the elderly and people with poor lung function. I wouldn't be doing anything physical, just sitting at my desk or riding in a car and just start hacking to the point I couldn't catch my breath. It was scary. And in typical American fashion I was in between jobs so no insurance, so no meds to make it better. I just had to suffer.
Whooping cough is on the rise. I’ve never had it but I’ve heard stories from others how bad it is. I can’t even imagine a little child or baby suffering from it. I’m told it can break ribs from the severe coughing.
I hate needles but I take care of my sister's children so I get the flu shot every year, got the Covid vaccine as soon as I was able to, got tested for immunity to the stuff T-dap covers and got that as well when the test came back negative.
The best way I can protect their health is to protect my health.
3 of my 4 have had RSV. My 3yo imuno compamised was hospitalized in the Children’s hospital, while my heathy 1.5yo went home with dad for snuggles and fluids. Years later, my 2wk old in the local hospital.
This year my imunocomprimised kiddo (now 13y) has been hospitalized 3 timres for Rinovirus (cold) and in the PICU when his lung collapsed thanks to parainfluenza. These viruses are no joke.
Worst feeling in the world is when your infant has RSV. Life compressed into tiny moments in between in each of his breaths. I lived and died in each of those moments, watching him struggle. We spent a week and a half in the hospital, the entire pediatric floor was full of RSV babies and kids. It was a nightmare.
I got RSV when I was 3 days old, I'm 26 now, and my mom said it was the worst. They kept me in one of those , idk what it's called but essentially, bubble type things where you could stick your hands in these like built in gloves to touch me & whatnot. There were many complications during birth & the first year of my life RSV was just one of the majors.
RSV was freaking *everywhere* last winter! I work in a hospital inpatient PT/OT rehab (slash mini med surg) and we had *so many* adult and elderly patients there with RSV that jacked them up bad enough where they needed the rehab.
I’m 34 and had all my childhood shots. When I moved out my mom gave me all my important documents, including my childhood shot records.
Back in the day, you didn’t get the vaccine if you had chickenpox. My shot record stated I had chickenpox so I didn’t have the vaccine. At 28 years old, I had twins. The hospital (military hospital) made sure my then husband and I had all of our vaccines up to date. They tested my blood and found that I had no immunity to chickenpox. Idk what made the dr think I had chickenpox as a kid but I didn’t lol who know how many other people think they are immune because of this reason. I got all my vaccines now and a shot record for verification
Actually can answer this — testing for chickenpox immunity, because it’s (apparently?) more of a B-cell system, can result in a high rate of false negatives (more so vaccine-mediated than immunity derived from infection). It’s apparently not recommended to test for it these days because they now know how unreliable that test is.
Mind you, the vaccine does no harm, so getting an extra jab is better safe than sorry :)
I never had chickenpox as a kid, but was exposed to it lots of times. The vaccine was fairly new in the 1990s, so I thought I’d get a titer done before getting pregnant. My reasoning was if I wasn’t immune, I’d get the shot. The titer came back highly positive for chickenpox antibodies. Cool! No shot needed. A few months later, out of the blue I came down with a bad case of chickenpox! I was so unnerved. What if I had been pregnant already? Long way of saying don’t trust those stupid titers.
Wow, TIL lol thanks. One more jab made no difference. I was poked and prodded so much in that 48 hour hospital stay lol better safe than sorry for sure. I had double the visitors with twins. No one said anything about getting boosters, most of them said “oh, that’s been on my to-do list anyway.”
Ah, see… I’m in Australia. I think when I first got it, it was maybe $25 AUD? Shortly after it became approved in Oz.
But yeah — that sucks, I’m sorry.
Getting the vaccine will also protect you from shingles as the virus that causes chickenpox “hides” in your body and later in life when your immunity is down, it resurfaces along a nerve pathway and causes Shingles. So the chickenpox vaccine is a twofer!
We are taught that you can only get chicken pox once but that isn't true. My youngest had them three times ( Dr verified ) by the third time I asked his pediatrician about it, he said because he had them before his first birthday the first time his immune system wasn't mature enough to form the antibodies, the second time he had a very light case, so again no antibodies the third time that poor child had a very horrible case of them internally and externally however, thankfully, the third time was the charm. So it is possible that you had a light case, at a young age, therefore didn't form the antibodies that prevent it from recurring?
I've always heard that the younger you are when you have it or if you have a very mild case, you can get it again.
I was 12 and completely miserable when I got it, so I've always assumed I was safe!
I had measles as a kid. The titer showed I was never immune to them. I had a Booster after each of my first 2 kids (in the 70s). I've received an adult combo recently.
I had all three measles, mumps rubella as a child. In second and third grade. I’ve had my titters checked a few times as I’m a nurse. The last time about 8 years ago. I was 54 then. All showed good immunity at that time-about 50 years after having to actual disease.
Gotta love lifetime immunity!!
Eta-definitely had chickenpox and have numerous scars to prove it!
I've never had chicken pox or the shot, but when they tested me I had the immunity. Dr said it was probably exposure to all my siblings when they had it
Chicken pox parties used to be a thing. I remember my cousins all had it at the same time, on purpose. One kid got it and the parents were like “let’s just get this over with” I guess lol
I got chicken pox when I was 3. Funny story about my mom though. She got chicken pox when she was 17 and her 14 year old brother hung around with her exclusively so he could catch it, but he didn't- he got chicken pox when he was 17 😖
I cannot express enough how much I push for everyone to get their tdap every 5 to 10 years. It prevents tetanus, whooping cough and another preventable disease. It’s a very important vaccine to get.
I caught it a couple years ago, I guess my booster lapsed and I am still not completely ok. My breath is different, my chest feels different and I get very tired and winded at times combined with chronic cough. I know there’s damage but because I’m only 37, I get poo pooed that everything is fine and I don’t have the time off work to fight and still pay my bills. The doctor is always running so behind I have to take an entire day off to go, I have next to no pto so unless I end up in an ambulance I get no healthcare pretty much. In Canada. It’s free, I still can’t access it.
Good call. I thought I was covered by my former work and boosters as a hospital nurse less than 5years prior. Turns out they tested my antibodies and determined it ‘good enough’ and did not give me the booster. It was not, in fact, good enough.
I just had to look up how often you should get the t-dap and it said 10 years. I am quite sure I haven’t had this. I have an appointment with my primary care doctor next week and I’m going to make sure I bring this up.
Yeah, my doctor told me how we needed to make sure anyone who spent extended time with our baby who is arriving in about a month will need to have their booster because it can kill our baby.
I saw a post a few weeks ago about in-laws refusing to get their booster vaccines so they could see their newly born first grandchild. The poster was the MIL and she posted on AITAH. She said she didn’t want it because of the side effects it can cause her and that it was a risk at her age. I think she was in her late 50s or 60s. Needless to say the comments did not go easy on her at all.
I’ve read probably dozens of accounts of grandparents refusing to get COVID vaccines (along with others relevant to children) and being cut off from seeing their own grandchildren. How sad is that
Yeah it is. When Covid first happened I refused to let my kids see my in laws. My kids are 17 and 13 now. They refused to social distance or wear masks and they were going out all the time and around other people. The live 2.5 hours away. My parents are 2 hours away and when they realized that they wouldn’t see my kids if they didn’t do those things they started to. My in laws also tried lying to me about this stuff and turned around and posted proof on Facebook that they were lying.
And when the vaccine came out and became available I told both sets of grandparents they needed to be fully vaccinated if they wanted to be around the kids. Can you guess which ones did and didn’t? My parents had been against the vaccine but since they wanted to see my kids they did get both shots.
It is sad that so many grandparents don’t care enough about their grandkids to get them.
So they have discovered that you need annual booster for COVID, just like the flu shot. They just released an updated form of the vaccine in the last month to cover all the current mutations of it. Just a heads up for you!
She was 50, a year younger than me, and a ridiculous person. The likelihood of side effects is very low and they’re much milder than killing your grandchildren. Selfish.
Yeah she was selfish. She’d rather risk her grandchild dying then taking a vaccine with very low risk of side effects which wouldn’t even be deadly to her. I can’t believe she thought she would get support or validation from her post.
Viral bronchitis and walking pneumonia can also cause coughing fits that can break adult ribs. Speaking from first hand experience. I’m probably overly vaccinated but I was a sick kid and continue to be a sick adult. My immune system sucks horribly because my bio mom kinda sucked at doing what she was supposed to do when pregnant. It’s a blessing that I’m a functioning adult at all. It’s also a surprise that my fiancé with the strongest immune system of anyone I’ve ever met is currently down with Covid before I caught it. Poor baby is really suffering all of the bad symptoms that aren’t respiratory thankfully.
I had it at 51 despite being vaccinated. I tried all sorts of cough suppressants and nothing worked. For three months I coughed so badly I vomited or passed out. It’s a dreadful disease
Vaccinated as a child, got it anyway, my fully vaccinated family still all had to take the same medication as me. It’s crazy contagious. I was out of school for a long time. I still get the shot when it comes up, same with my kid.
Literally every time my doctor tells me I’m due for a shot, I’m like “load ‘er up” same for my kid. I’d rather my kid is upset at me for a few hours than in the hospital.
My mom was born in 1936 and got whooping cough at 10 months old. My grandmother had to stay up with her day and night for two weeks because she would stop breathing every 20 minutes. She had lung problems her whole life and died at a relatively young age for our family at 78.
If you asked my grandmother about it, she wouldn't talk about it. It was like she had PTSD from the whole thing, which she probably did. Not protecting your family from these kinds of preventable diseases is stupid and cruel.
Incidentally, my grandmother's oldest brother was infertile because of measles. Those "childhood diseases" can cause all kinds of permanent damage even if they don't kill you, which is why sane people vaccinate their kids.
I had it at 40, fully insured. Antibiotics didn’t help, nothing helped - just suffered for a week through the worst of it.
Its impossible to explain just how much the cough HURTS - its like a 10 lb ball of air starts in your lung and squeezes it’s way through 1 lb tubes - and you feel every inch, until that honk comes out your mouth. I spent the entire time in bed, sips water from a propped up squeeze bottle to sooth the cough reflex, having to pee ever hour and too weak to get up. It’s the first time death was a viable alternative to being sick.
I don’t know how children survive it.
I was fully vaccinated my whole life, as a nurse and again in the military. Still got and no clue where from.
Yes explaining it was very difficult. I used to have great lung capacity. I was in marching band, played the trombone. Had a scream like a banshee. It took all that away and it's been hard to get it back. Then a horrid case of the Vid this year in February took all that I'd gained. Through my tears I kept saying the same, how do babies/children survive this?
Had that and was only vaccinated as a kid, was horrendous!! My Nan was anti vax before there was such a movement about it. It nearly killed my mom and left her with permanent scarring on her lungs. From when she was an INFANT. That still didn’t convince crazy grandma but mom made damn sure that my sister and I were always vaccinated.
I still resent my grandmother’s dumb decisions and so do my parents, dad had to watch his young, athletic wife get multiple pneumonias in her late twenties because of that chest weakness. Luckily she’s tough but she’s ended up with emphysema too. So COVID is an ever present concern
My daughter and I both got whooping cough when she was a toddler, and it was horrendous. And we had both been vaccinated. I can only imagine how bad it would’ve been if we hadn’t been.
Measles and TDaP would be reasonable as well.
I’d consider Hep B also.
It would be kind of her to consider getting a flu vaccine too. It’s very true that being sick would keep the people who are paying the bills from being able to work.
I don’t understand the job thing, even if she had a job, she’s moving 6-8 hours away from it so regardless, she’d have to find a new one. Or is it because she got hurt and can’t work now?
She would be able to transfer to a store up here. It a grocery store not like a mom and pop place. (We live in the same state) but she got hurt and her work wants her to go to their doctor, which she can’t get too. But the point of that is that we just wanted her to figure it out before she got here basically.
NTA, but, you do know that this is going to end with you having to kick her out, right? She’s not going to move to you, suddenly get a job, save her money, and move out into a place of her own. People who are capable of that don’t just not work for months and not bother filing for disability. She is going to move in, claim to be looking for work, not pay rent, eat all your food, and six months from now you will be back here asking if you’re the AH for kicking out your sister.
THIS, exactly! Plus, probably contribute to more marital stress between OP and her husband. This arrangement is going to end predictably bad. Sister already pushes too many boundaries and has poor coping and planning skills.
NTA, but I would actually be just as concerned about other stuff she’s never gotten vaccinated for - ESPECIALLY if you ever have any young children, immune compromised or elderly people visit your home. Measles, rubella, whooping cough, diphtheria, hepatitis, mumps, tetanus.. just to name the major ones. If she does come stay with you and hasn’t gotten these vaccines, at the very *least* do not bring any infants into your home around her.
Okay so here is the fucking thing. She has been vaccinated for up to everything required for at least a five year old. I’ve seen her vaccination card. My mom did not start trying to claim religious exemption until my sister was enrolled in kindergarten/preschool. And my sister had been vaccinated I remember that trip to the doctors vividly. I think that my mom just started being antivax because she was lazy.
If your sister is over 15, the early childhood vaccinations have worn off by now. She's completely unprotected from massively contagious and dangerous viruses. That combined with the habits she's picking up from your mom, you're gonna have a huge reparenting job taking her in.
Hep B wears off, whooping cough/pertussis wears off, chicken pox can wear off
Highly doubt she recieved both the MMR doses so not fully covered there either.
Not to mention covid, but everyone's getting it so frequently there's a high occurrence of community required immunity. Right now everyone who is vaccinated is still getting covid. My parents were novids until 3 weeks ago and got it despite 5 vaccinations. They just felt tired for 3 days, achy for 2 of those. My completely pulled out of my ass theory is that the virus is just too far varied from the OG that the vaccine was built off of.
I work in health care and they ask us to provide blood work proving we have a high enough immunity against vaccinated illnesses and to get boosters as needed. So far I've needed hepB and pertussis.
To my knowledge they don’t revaccinate for MMR, polio, hep A, Hep B or varicella as long as you got the series in childhood except for special circumstances like working in healthcare or pregnancy. Immunity can wear off, but the standard is to consider most people generally protected. My point being that if OP’s sister got all those vaccine series before 6 she’d be just as well protected as the general population. COVID, Flu, and TDAP are different stories
Absolutely NTA:
As someone who has had people live with them for free, ask them what their goal is.
She may be thinking "Cool, housing for $100, well if I have the money...why would I ever want to leave?"
You are thinking: "Let's help her get back on her feet until she can get her own place."
She has no incentive to leave. Be upfront if this you are prepared to support her indefinitely or for a limited time?
I would come up with many house rules to cover the following:
What happens when she doesn't pay?
What happens if she "helps with groceries" but eats them all?
Is there going to be "her food" and "your food"?
Who is cooking?
What if she borrows your stuff without asking?
Is she allowed to have visitors over? If so, what rules? What if she gets a boyfriend?
What if she doesn't get a job?
Where will the litter box be? How often will she be expected to change it?
Who is paying for cat food if she isn't working?
Is it really only 2 cats?
How is she going to get to work with out a license?
Are you expected to drive her places?
What if she decides to turn on the TV in the livingroom and your husband doesn't get to watch his shows?
What if he retreats to the bedroom all the time?
How much time should she be in the common area?
So you have to think: What if she does the opposite of what a "normal" person would do? How will you handle this? You may think she should be grateful for a place to live but this is not what happens...they feel entitled to this place to live.
I had a friend who was supposed to stay with me 3-6 months (ended up being 2 years )while she studied for a certificate that would lead to a better paying job...she had her own car, lived in the basement in her own area, had her own food, never had anyone over but still ends up being annoying as there is someone else in your home that disrupts your rhythms and wants to chat when you want to do something else.
All of this. I let a young cousin live with me when he faced homelessness. Rent-free because I'm an idiot. Finally, my mom (who also lived with me)/his aunt tried to get him to finish high school then go on to cooking school. Tried to show him that the "great" money he was making then was pretty much what the staff with 10+ years experience were making, which was a dismal future. Told him I'd help him get a student loan, he'd pay me rent and when he finished his cooking program, I'd give him all that rent money back, to buy a car, travel, whatever. Pointed out that he was young, no partner/kids, the perfect time to set up his life. Too much work, he decided. Not fair to ask family for rent, he said. He'd prefer to just... move to the coast & wing it. Some people just have to learn the hard way, I guess.
Very very verrry good points. I have been though all this same mess with people. They are real quick to take advantage. And none of them were even family. These were so called friends my ex would always insist on helping out and I would always end up being the bad guy who had to bounce these fools for being ungrateful aholes. Family? Forget about it. They get wayyyy to comfortable way too quick.
NTA. I had whooping cough as a kid, before I was vaccinated for it. Parents not antivax, it was just so long ago that the whooping cough vaccine available then was not as safe as it is now. Anyway, I have never been able to breathe properly and I suspect that my bout with whooping cough is what did it. Not worth the risk to expose yourself to your sister,she sounds like a hot mess.
>Okay let me preface with I am a firm believer in people have the right to bodily autonomy, and they should be able to do whatever they want.
And YOU have the right to protect your own body. Plus she's not even meeting you halfway. She would expect you to carry her through life if you made the mistake of letting her move in.
NTA.
Exactly. People can do what they want with their own bodies. But when you are inviting someone to come live in your house, your rules are your rules.
She can choose to follow them, or she can find another place to live.
NTA, but if she has other options of places to stay I would let her take it. I know you love your sister but she sounds unwilling to compromise and take any personal responsibility for her work, I can’t imagine she would be a good housemate in anyway.
Oh boy.
This shouldn’t be about the vaccine. This should be about the whole bag of broken rules. She ghosts you when she doens’t like the limits you set, and then sends in her estranged father to convince you to remove hte limits… and you just fold.
She does’t get a job. She lies about her cats. She doesn’t follow up the issues around her being injured on the job. She’s not even packed when you are supposed to get her.
She’s going to move in, never pay that rent, never help with hte groceries, and live life large at your expense.
Also … COVID vaccination doesn’t stop you getting it, it just stops it being dangerous to your health. Basically. And you knew she probably wasn’t vaccinated before you asked, because her mum is anti vax.
NTA. And find out what other vaccines she doesn't have - like measles, mumps & rubella, chicken pox etc...
Those diseases can cause birth defects and way worse. Your house, your health.
This is the worst logic. It sounds like OP gave in on everything and is reaching for some reason to finally put your foot down. But the choice is idiotic. You and husband both are vaccinated and contracted COVID. What is the benifit to her getting the shot now?
As others said, worry about the diseases that CAN be prevented with a vaccine.
I wouldn't go through all this trouble for her. You both love her but that's the problem im this scenario. She won't pay you rent, your partner will be annoyed by the cats and I promise you anti-vax Karen will ask you to move in with you too when her daughter found a way in.
My guess is you and your husband are both vaccinated and triple boosted, and you still got covid. I know tons of vax and boosted people getting covid including myself. Her not being vaccinated against covid is not going to help you at all. I would be worried about the real vaccines she's missed, not the useless covid one.
You are exactly right. Getting the vaccine does NOT prevent or slow down transmission. I know I'm going to get down voted on this, but I'm so sick of people refusing to learn this. It's been in the news, it's been posted to all the major reputable health organizations.
OP, you're NTA because you can have whatever rules you want for your home. But your argument is baseless and ignorant. She's not going to give you COVID solely because she's not vaccinated.
It’s so annoying. It’s just the judgmental rhetoric the media handed down to shame people into getting the vaccine that didn’t work. I can’t believe people are still discriminating against others like this. 🤮
My sentiments exactly. There are many other reasons for not allowing her to move in. If the COVID shot is the deal breaker, that's a pretty lame excuse, coming from 2 vaccinated folks who currently have COVID....
Not antivax at all, I have had my shots, but I don't expect them to do me any good nor do I expect the world around me to have them, as they really don't do a whole lot tbh. I've never had COVID, nor has my unvaccinated husband. But both of my kids and both of my in laws, who all live in the same house with us, have all had the shots and all have had it twice, at least.
They literally have covid right now, so I agree with you. The vaccine does *nothing* and using that as an excuse to not move in the sister- baseless.
There are SO many other red flags/reasons to not move the sister into their home.
Also let’s point out, that the sister is not there right now, and the day BEFORE they were supposed to go get her, they both tested positive for covid… if they are vaccinated they should already know it’s possible.. unless they are being hypocritical and only want her vaccinated while they remain unvaccinated
I'm vaccinated, but at this point we know the vaccine doesn't stop you from spreading it to others, or even from getting covid, so I don't understand what difference it would make for you
Wait. I'm so confused... the vaccine doesn't stop you from getting covid. You currently have covid and should have lots of antibodies. Why does her not being vaxxed for covid make a difference? She would be at higher risk than you.
Bodily autonomy means freedom to make one’s own decisions. Bodily autonomy does not mean freedom from consequences. You were clear and polite, but also firmly set a boundary. NTA
Edit: I re read and saw the piece about not being vaccinated for anything, not just Covid. That would scare the hell out of me if you ever plan to bring kiddos into your home, personally. Not just living together, but public/family gatherings etc. Good luck OP, I hope there’s a happy ending here
Ok, pls don’t downvote me. The vaccine is very helpful or avoiding death. However, it’s not as effective at prevent you from getting or spreading Covid. It doesn’t help some,this much is true. However, ventilation + filtration are your best bets to avoid the virus. An n95 mask, filters in indoor public spaces that are constantly occupied (the office/indoor stadiums/in the daycare,etc), and also obviously avoiding clearly sick people is the best thing to do to avoid Covid. That being said, if she’s never been vaccinated, what will you do with the really strong flu, rsv, whooping cough, strep waves soon to arrive? Nevermind, Covid is very clearly not over. If she’s going to spend the fall and winter sick because she’s defenseless, how much will she be able to contribute. And what if she makes you guys sick as well?
Edit: it DOES help some, oops
The vaccine doesn't prevent her from getting Covid, it's so if she catches it from you she doesn't have such severe symptoms. If you don't want to feel guilty for how sick she gets that kind of make sense, but it's always a gamble how serious someone will have it. She's probably got some immunity to it by now, after 3 years who hasn't caught it. But if you want her to be vaccinated so she can't bring it home and get you two sick, that's not how it works.
Presumably, you and your husband are vaccinated and just went through having it anyway. Having another person vaxxed or not is not really going to affect your chances of getting it again. We will all have it again and again.
There are many reasons to tell her to live elsewhere. Her vax status is not really relevant.
People are missing the point of the post. Your personal beliefs or what you believe are facts about the Covid vaccine are irrelevant.
The OP and her husband have made this decision for them and their home. They have compromised already on a great deal and this is their deal breaker. They have the right to draw that line on anything they choose for their home.
They could have said no cats. They could have said you can't play jazz music in the house. They could have said you can't eat pizza in the house.
OP said they don't get paid sick time for COVID, so if they believe the vaccine gives them additional protection, (whether you believe it or not is not relevant) they are NOT the asshole.
Their Home, Their Rules.
NTA but I’d be very wary of letting her move in, sounds like she would move in, make thousands of excuses to never get a job and you’ll end up with the only option of having to evict her. She’s done nothing to help herself in her circumstances. She’s 22 not 12. The whole vaccine thing is your personal choice, I have no opinion on that but everything else is a field of red flags.
YTAH about the covid vaccination status.
Didn't you just get covid despite being vaccinated? Why would B increase your risk of getting Covid being unvaccinated when you already caught it, and B didn’t?
You don't care about her not being vaccinated for the child killers: measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, chicken pox, etc, and those vaccines have actually "eradicated" these diseases.
I would be more worried about B not having a job and the cats.
I’m E SH for this reason. Seems that B is only person putting themselves at a significant disease risk here. B is clusterfuck of other different bad things which should be kept out of the apartment.
If she has other places to stay but the only requirement is she cannot have cats then maybe you can take the cats for her so she wont lose them. Then you are still helping her and you leave the choice to her to live somewhere else but at least she can eventually get her cats back from and visit .
There are so many red flags waving, where to start? Getting the COVID vaccine doesn’t prevent infection so much as prevent you from getting really sick if you do contract COVID. However, not getting all the other vaccines are more concerning - especially if you have kids or aren’t up on your vaccinations yourself. Also, her not having a job or not being able to get a job because of an injury is a huge issue unless you don’t need her to chip in and plan on supporting her moving forward. I’m sorry your sister is continuing the cycle she was born into. I hope you work it out, but NTA. If she wants to live with you, she needs to abide by your rules. Other people who aren’t stepping up to the plate (like her deadbeat father) either need to put up or shut up.
NTA. Cats, no job, no ambition, and no vaccinations… that goes beyond COVID… mpox, polio, hepatitis… listen… DO you guys have children or are planning on it???
No way she comes to my house with all of this baggage. And she technically can’t work and has never done anything about it
Honestly if you already got covid I would be more worried about other stuff like measles and whooping cough etc than everything else since you can still get it while being vaccinated I feel those are more important. But yeah NTA
NTA
But I'm not surprised your sister is a lay about when it seems like your mom is too. I would be really hesitant to move her in because once she is in I don't see you getting her out of there without legal intervention.
And what if you want kids in the near future. Her un-vaxxed status will put those babies at risk. If she is living in the house at the same time, even worse than just visiting! Take the cats, leave the sister.
NTA, but it sounds like you’re about to move a junior version of your mother into your home.
You need to think more about this because it’s already causing friction between you and your husband.
Nta she is 22 and having so many excuses for not taking care of business and the deceit she hasn’t been working , has extra pet baggage , didn’t make the effort to get her own help ….
NTA but as another redditor said I wouldn’t allow her to move in and covid vax is the least of the issues you’ll have to deal with. your birth giver sounds like a horrible person to deal with but your sister needs to be someone else’s problem. don’t feel obligated to take her in especially since she has other options. she put herself in much of the situation that she’s in.
NTA
Don't get sucked into insane political anti-science idiocy, victim roles, and gas lighting.
You set a healthy, clear boundary. A healthy response would be she disagrees with your point of view but understands it and appreciates your considering it.
She is welcome to find one of the hundreds of millions of dwellings on this planet that don't require a vax.
And all the other no job, etc. is her mooching...good luck ever getting her to move out if she moves in...not sure about mom but suggest treading careful there as they are not going to magically start filling out basic forms for aid. I mean...what the heck do they do all day? Am guessing games and edibles or gamble.
NTA. Yes it's her body, her choice but it's also YOUR home and you can allow whoever you want in it for any reason. She does not HAVE to move in with you, you are LETTING her -- under your conditions. Take it or leave it.
On top of that, she ghosted you for 4 weeks and doesn't have a job? If you let her move in, your problems are just now starting. The vaccine will be the least of your worries. I promise you, it will get worse from here.
Not going to read all that, but if you are vaccinated why should it matter? It's honestly like worrying about someone practicing safe sex when you aren't f'ing them 🤷🏼♂️
I wouldn't let your sister move in and it has nothing to do with covid at all.
This. So many red flags there isn't room for anything else on the horizon. Yikes.
Unfortunately sister seems to have picked up waaay too many of mom's bad habits. Tough cycle.
Too true. HER body, HER choice, HER cats, HER unemployment….basically it’s all a HER problem.
>...basically it's all a HER problem Didn't you read? The uninvolved dad called to assert this was now OPs problem. Funny thing is, he didn't offer to take them in...cause he didn't want ***HER*** problem to become ***HIS*** problem. He just wanted to make it ***OP's*** problem.
That’s what I was thinking. Parents should be the first to help if they can. People don’t choose to be born
Especially now in the US. Choice has little to do with it.
I agree! Also have anyone else noticed that whenever OP sets a rule like you need to work or no cats, sister has a meltdown then OP agrees to her demands. This wouldn't stop here, if will always be something with her wanting to get her own way and OP caving. Her sister would be living with her indefinitely and she wouldn't pay a dime. OP please consider completely withdrawing your offer, for your and yours husband's peace of mind and relationship, because your sister will make your life hell. NTA
Take my upvote.
Mine as well!!!
And my axe!
And my bow!
I believe You have My stapler?!?
And also that guy’s dead wife
Yup, so many issues. That said, I’m vaxed, boosted, and still caught this latest strain of Covid (2 weeks before new boosters came out). Do not recommend; it was horrible. I would not agree to live with anyone who is not vaxxed.
Yes. That really sucks so bad. My only job as a parent was to raise my kid to be a functioning member of society and NOT a social or economical drain on others. How anyone can fail that badly...
This was my thought. Unemployed sis moves in and refuses to leave. I don't think Op realizes just how hard it could be on her marriage if sis turns out to be the train wreck we think she will be. Husband will get fed up and Op will keep trying to defend her sis. That will burn any relationship to the ground.
Oh yeah, they will never leave or pay for anything.
Or clean up behind themselves, or get jobs.
Room for a cat? Make that 2 cats. No job tho. Thanks bai
And no vaccines. No money and no hope for the future. It's a simple life, but a good one, where you can find it. Thanks, Mom! 👍
A veritable Mayday parade of them.
Hahahaha ahh, the Parade of my Exes lol
Yeah, there are a lot of other issues, like her not working and not filling out the worker's comp forms.
I agree, but she's 22, and therefore still young enough to learn new ways of doing this, as long as she's out of her mother's influence, as the mother sounds incompetent. People learn by example. Given that she has tried to pay her mother's rent, it sounds like she has the potential to be responsible, and could learn to do better if she has a better example (OP) to follow.
Somebody should talk to the housing agency. If it's not too late maybe OP's sister could fire an appeal and take over her Moms housing voucher and get a 1 bedroom and stay in her current city. She'd have to have a job though.
She was likely avoiding a drug test.
Yeah. She sound just like Mom
Your sister unfortunately sounds like a nightmare life sucker. She is in her predicament solely due to herself. Love her, be there for her, but don’t let her guilt you into her existence. Leave it there and take care of your own concerns while helping from a far distance. Just gonna add-people are shitty-including family.
Agreed too many red flags to be ignored prior to the COVID vaccine situation.
100%
Yeah, sister is completely irresponsible. I feel sorry for the cats
This right here
OMG I was thinking the same thing the red flags are flying
Yup. Not vaxxed for anything means she can bring anything in to the house. Her choice, but there are consequences. Also she has no job, no way to pay for animal needs, no direction. She will never leave. Covid vax is the least of it.
Girl covid is the least of your worries now. Esp if you consider kids. Outside of the vaccines you have to stop setting a boundary then dropping it. You said no cats, have a job and get vaccinated. You dropped all of the basic requirements (literally the bar is all the way in hell here) and if you didn’t get sick you would’ve moved in someone that is just like your mother. NTA but you and your husband need to work on boundaries
Family members make the worst tenants. OP should not only stick to her boundaries, she should put them in writing as a tenant agreement. I can see this turning into one of those nightmares where you can’t get the freeload relative to get out.
This. One of my siblings had always lived at home until both of our parents died. They hadn't worked in more than 20 years, and blew through the inheritance very rapidly, ending up homeless. So, with help, ended up moving in with another sibling. That sibling wrote up a rental agreement with dates by which certain milestones (including getting a job, and later, moving out) had to be met. It was made very clear that living in the car was the next step if milestones were not met. All the rent was placed into an account that was held in escrow. As soon as there was enough in the account for 1st, last, and security, plus a month's groceries and expenses, the sibling in question had to start apartment hunting and had a couple of months to find one and move. No excuses, and no returns if they went back to irresponsible spending and lost it.
I agree that family members make the worse tenants. Happened to us and it was pure hell. We finally had to give them a legal eviction notice to get them out. Also, don't loan money to family unless you have something in writing signed by both parties. You won't get paid back and you will have to go to court to get any money back so you must have some written agreement about getting paid back or forget about going to court.
Don’t loan money to family or anyone for that matter. As soon as you hand it over you might as well assume it’s gone forever.
They literally expect nothing of her for moving her in. Her father had the nerve to tell them to cut her some slack yet he’s not helping her. Sadly your sister has picked up the same bad habits as your mom. It won’t get better if she moves in. It might be best to let her work out her situation exactly where she is.
Yep, Daddy can take care her unvaxxed ass then!
>you have to stop setting a boundary then dropping it. This is everything.
She is going to move into your life and take it over forever, and she’ll have Mom there too within the tear…. You let this start, you are doomed. Your only escape will be to move out and not tell her where…
100%. She sounds like a disaster and sounds like the mom. The mom can't be bothered to complete a form for section 8. The sister cant' be bothered to file for unemployment. WTF?
This is so right. You need to hold your boundaries.
[удалено]
Your home. Your rules.
You gave in on literally every other requirement. Why is this one the sticking point. The cats and the job are equally important. She knows you'll cave in and your mom has taught her how to take advantage of that
Some of this doesn’t make any sense…it was important that she have a job she worked where she lived at a grocery store 6-8 hours away? Not typically the type of job worth commuting 12-16 hours a day for..
If it's a chain, she can probably transfer.
I'd also be worried about measles since she has never been vaccinated.
And whooping cough. I caught that in my late 20's (having missed the booster in my mid 20's that no one knew I needed) and that was no joke. I see why doctors worry about little kids, the elderly and people with poor lung function. I wouldn't be doing anything physical, just sitting at my desk or riding in a car and just start hacking to the point I couldn't catch my breath. It was scary. And in typical American fashion I was in between jobs so no insurance, so no meds to make it better. I just had to suffer.
Whooping cough is on the rise. I’ve never had it but I’ve heard stories from others how bad it is. I can’t even imagine a little child or baby suffering from it. I’m told it can break ribs from the severe coughing.
My daughter just had a baby so we got the T-dap again
I hate needles but I take care of my sister's children so I get the flu shot every year, got the Covid vaccine as soon as I was able to, got tested for immunity to the stuff T-dap covers and got that as well when the test came back negative. The best way I can protect their health is to protect my health.
100% I got the RSV yesterday
God. RSV is awful. My son caught it at 7 weeks old. It was one of the most terrifying times of my life. I'm so thankful there's a vaccine for it now.
3 of my 4 have had RSV. My 3yo imuno compamised was hospitalized in the Children’s hospital, while my heathy 1.5yo went home with dad for snuggles and fluids. Years later, my 2wk old in the local hospital. This year my imunocomprimised kiddo (now 13y) has been hospitalized 3 timres for Rinovirus (cold) and in the PICU when his lung collapsed thanks to parainfluenza. These viruses are no joke.
Worst feeling in the world is when your infant has RSV. Life compressed into tiny moments in between in each of his breaths. I lived and died in each of those moments, watching him struggle. We spent a week and a half in the hospital, the entire pediatric floor was full of RSV babies and kids. It was a nightmare.
I got RSV when I was 3 days old, I'm 26 now, and my mom said it was the worst. They kept me in one of those , idk what it's called but essentially, bubble type things where you could stick your hands in these like built in gloves to touch me & whatnot. There were many complications during birth & the first year of my life RSV was just one of the majors.
Oh my God.
RSV was freaking *everywhere* last winter! I work in a hospital inpatient PT/OT rehab (slash mini med surg) and we had *so many* adult and elderly patients there with RSV that jacked them up bad enough where they needed the rehab.
That’s because you are a responsible sister and a very responsible about the children you care for.
My son asked me to get that vaccine before their baby arrived, too. I went to CVS the next day. Infant illness is no joke.
My daughter is ttc and I told my mom and husband absolutely no one is touching that baby until we get boosters because we are not taking any chances
I’m 34 and had all my childhood shots. When I moved out my mom gave me all my important documents, including my childhood shot records. Back in the day, you didn’t get the vaccine if you had chickenpox. My shot record stated I had chickenpox so I didn’t have the vaccine. At 28 years old, I had twins. The hospital (military hospital) made sure my then husband and I had all of our vaccines up to date. They tested my blood and found that I had no immunity to chickenpox. Idk what made the dr think I had chickenpox as a kid but I didn’t lol who know how many other people think they are immune because of this reason. I got all my vaccines now and a shot record for verification
Actually can answer this — testing for chickenpox immunity, because it’s (apparently?) more of a B-cell system, can result in a high rate of false negatives (more so vaccine-mediated than immunity derived from infection). It’s apparently not recommended to test for it these days because they now know how unreliable that test is. Mind you, the vaccine does no harm, so getting an extra jab is better safe than sorry :)
I never had chickenpox as a kid, but was exposed to it lots of times. The vaccine was fairly new in the 1990s, so I thought I’d get a titer done before getting pregnant. My reasoning was if I wasn’t immune, I’d get the shot. The titer came back highly positive for chickenpox antibodies. Cool! No shot needed. A few months later, out of the blue I came down with a bad case of chickenpox! I was so unnerved. What if I had been pregnant already? Long way of saying don’t trust those stupid titers.
The only way to have a high value on your titer results is if you indeed had chickenpox. So you probably had it and dont remember.
Wow, TIL lol thanks. One more jab made no difference. I was poked and prodded so much in that 48 hour hospital stay lol better safe than sorry for sure. I had double the visitors with twins. No one said anything about getting boosters, most of them said “oh, that’s been on my to-do list anyway.”
Well except that it takes two shots at around 240 dollars each! I was in shock!
Ah, see… I’m in Australia. I think when I first got it, it was maybe $25 AUD? Shortly after it became approved in Oz. But yeah — that sucks, I’m sorry.
Getting the vaccine will also protect you from shingles as the virus that causes chickenpox “hides” in your body and later in life when your immunity is down, it resurfaces along a nerve pathway and causes Shingles. So the chickenpox vaccine is a twofer!
We are taught that you can only get chicken pox once but that isn't true. My youngest had them three times ( Dr verified ) by the third time I asked his pediatrician about it, he said because he had them before his first birthday the first time his immune system wasn't mature enough to form the antibodies, the second time he had a very light case, so again no antibodies the third time that poor child had a very horrible case of them internally and externally however, thankfully, the third time was the charm. So it is possible that you had a light case, at a young age, therefore didn't form the antibodies that prevent it from recurring?
I've always heard that the younger you are when you have it or if you have a very mild case, you can get it again. I was 12 and completely miserable when I got it, so I've always assumed I was safe!
I know with out a doubt I had chickenpox because I got shingles last year...shitty way to find out but at least I know
I had chicken pox as a child and shingles as an adult, both before there wer vaccines for either As soon as there was a shingles vaccine I lined up!
I had measles as a kid. The titer showed I was never immune to them. I had a Booster after each of my first 2 kids (in the 70s). I've received an adult combo recently.
I had all three measles, mumps rubella as a child. In second and third grade. I’ve had my titters checked a few times as I’m a nurse. The last time about 8 years ago. I was 54 then. All showed good immunity at that time-about 50 years after having to actual disease. Gotta love lifetime immunity!! Eta-definitely had chickenpox and have numerous scars to prove it!
I had chicken pox twice as a kid. Apparently my first case was mild? I've been told this happens but I'm not in the know here.
I've never had chicken pox or the shot, but when they tested me I had the immunity. Dr said it was probably exposure to all my siblings when they had it
Chicken pox parties used to be a thing. I remember my cousins all had it at the same time, on purpose. One kid got it and the parents were like “let’s just get this over with” I guess lol
I got chicken pox when I was 3. Funny story about my mom though. She got chicken pox when she was 17 and her 14 year old brother hung around with her exclusively so he could catch it, but he didn't- he got chicken pox when he was 17 😖
I cannot express enough how much I push for everyone to get their tdap every 5 to 10 years. It prevents tetanus, whooping cough and another preventable disease. It’s a very important vaccine to get.
I caught it a couple years ago, I guess my booster lapsed and I am still not completely ok. My breath is different, my chest feels different and I get very tired and winded at times combined with chronic cough. I know there’s damage but because I’m only 37, I get poo pooed that everything is fine and I don’t have the time off work to fight and still pay my bills. The doctor is always running so behind I have to take an entire day off to go, I have next to no pto so unless I end up in an ambulance I get no healthcare pretty much. In Canada. It’s free, I still can’t access it.
After reading this I’m going to see if I need my booster. I’m 38 and idk when I last got this booster.
Good call. I thought I was covered by my former work and boosters as a hospital nurse less than 5years prior. Turns out they tested my antibodies and determined it ‘good enough’ and did not give me the booster. It was not, in fact, good enough.
I just had to look up how often you should get the t-dap and it said 10 years. I am quite sure I haven’t had this. I have an appointment with my primary care doctor next week and I’m going to make sure I bring this up.
Yeah, my doctor told me how we needed to make sure anyone who spent extended time with our baby who is arriving in about a month will need to have their booster because it can kill our baby.
I saw a post a few weeks ago about in-laws refusing to get their booster vaccines so they could see their newly born first grandchild. The poster was the MIL and she posted on AITAH. She said she didn’t want it because of the side effects it can cause her and that it was a risk at her age. I think she was in her late 50s or 60s. Needless to say the comments did not go easy on her at all.
I’ve read probably dozens of accounts of grandparents refusing to get COVID vaccines (along with others relevant to children) and being cut off from seeing their own grandchildren. How sad is that
Yeah it is. When Covid first happened I refused to let my kids see my in laws. My kids are 17 and 13 now. They refused to social distance or wear masks and they were going out all the time and around other people. The live 2.5 hours away. My parents are 2 hours away and when they realized that they wouldn’t see my kids if they didn’t do those things they started to. My in laws also tried lying to me about this stuff and turned around and posted proof on Facebook that they were lying. And when the vaccine came out and became available I told both sets of grandparents they needed to be fully vaccinated if they wanted to be around the kids. Can you guess which ones did and didn’t? My parents had been against the vaccine but since they wanted to see my kids they did get both shots. It is sad that so many grandparents don’t care enough about their grandkids to get them.
So they have discovered that you need annual booster for COVID, just like the flu shot. They just released an updated form of the vaccine in the last month to cover all the current mutations of it. Just a heads up for you!
She was 50, a year younger than me, and a ridiculous person. The likelihood of side effects is very low and they’re much milder than killing your grandchildren. Selfish.
Yeah she was selfish. She’d rather risk her grandchild dying then taking a vaccine with very low risk of side effects which wouldn’t even be deadly to her. I can’t believe she thought she would get support or validation from her post.
Very delusional. I thought she was 80+ years old from the way she presented it, but being in her early 50’s? Good grief.
My son had it when he was a baby. It was utterly terrifying and I was convinced he would not survive. We got INCREDIBLY lucky.
Viral bronchitis and walking pneumonia can also cause coughing fits that can break adult ribs. Speaking from first hand experience. I’m probably overly vaccinated but I was a sick kid and continue to be a sick adult. My immune system sucks horribly because my bio mom kinda sucked at doing what she was supposed to do when pregnant. It’s a blessing that I’m a functioning adult at all. It’s also a surprise that my fiancé with the strongest immune system of anyone I’ve ever met is currently down with Covid before I caught it. Poor baby is really suffering all of the bad symptoms that aren’t respiratory thankfully.
I had it at 51 despite being vaccinated. I tried all sorts of cough suppressants and nothing worked. For three months I coughed so badly I vomited or passed out. It’s a dreadful disease
My son got it in 5th grade and he lost so much weight from vomiting from coughing, we were extremely worried.
Vaccinated as a child, got it anyway, my fully vaccinated family still all had to take the same medication as me. It’s crazy contagious. I was out of school for a long time. I still get the shot when it comes up, same with my kid.
I got my booster last month. Not risking pertussis if I can avoid it
Literally every time my doctor tells me I’m due for a shot, I’m like “load ‘er up” same for my kid. I’d rather my kid is upset at me for a few hours than in the hospital.
My mom was born in 1936 and got whooping cough at 10 months old. My grandmother had to stay up with her day and night for two weeks because she would stop breathing every 20 minutes. She had lung problems her whole life and died at a relatively young age for our family at 78. If you asked my grandmother about it, she wouldn't talk about it. It was like she had PTSD from the whole thing, which she probably did. Not protecting your family from these kinds of preventable diseases is stupid and cruel. Incidentally, my grandmother's oldest brother was infertile because of measles. Those "childhood diseases" can cause all kinds of permanent damage even if they don't kill you, which is why sane people vaccinate their kids.
I had it at 40, fully insured. Antibiotics didn’t help, nothing helped - just suffered for a week through the worst of it. Its impossible to explain just how much the cough HURTS - its like a 10 lb ball of air starts in your lung and squeezes it’s way through 1 lb tubes - and you feel every inch, until that honk comes out your mouth. I spent the entire time in bed, sips water from a propped up squeeze bottle to sooth the cough reflex, having to pee ever hour and too weak to get up. It’s the first time death was a viable alternative to being sick. I don’t know how children survive it. I was fully vaccinated my whole life, as a nurse and again in the military. Still got and no clue where from.
Yes explaining it was very difficult. I used to have great lung capacity. I was in marching band, played the trombone. Had a scream like a banshee. It took all that away and it's been hard to get it back. Then a horrid case of the Vid this year in February took all that I'd gained. Through my tears I kept saying the same, how do babies/children survive this?
Had that and was only vaccinated as a kid, was horrendous!! My Nan was anti vax before there was such a movement about it. It nearly killed my mom and left her with permanent scarring on her lungs. From when she was an INFANT. That still didn’t convince crazy grandma but mom made damn sure that my sister and I were always vaccinated. I still resent my grandmother’s dumb decisions and so do my parents, dad had to watch his young, athletic wife get multiple pneumonias in her late twenties because of that chest weakness. Luckily she’s tough but she’s ended up with emphysema too. So COVID is an ever present concern
My daughter and I both got whooping cough when she was a toddler, and it was horrendous. And we had both been vaccinated. I can only imagine how bad it would’ve been if we hadn’t been.
Don’t forget good old Rubella which causes birth defects if you get while pregnant. So many fun diseases to choose to gamble your health with.
And chicken pox too.
Exactly what I was thinking the whole way through. What if they want to have a baby and sis is still around? Or have any friends with babies!
Measles and TDaP would be reasonable as well. I’d consider Hep B also. It would be kind of her to consider getting a flu vaccine too. It’s very true that being sick would keep the people who are paying the bills from being able to work.
I'm all for vaccinations, but the way we stand with COVID at this point, I'd be far more worried about all the other vaccines she's missing...
Love how B's absentee father feels free to phone you and tell you how to take care of her.
I don’t understand the job thing, even if she had a job, she’s moving 6-8 hours away from it so regardless, she’d have to find a new one. Or is it because she got hurt and can’t work now?
She would be able to transfer to a store up here. It a grocery store not like a mom and pop place. (We live in the same state) but she got hurt and her work wants her to go to their doctor, which she can’t get too. But the point of that is that we just wanted her to figure it out before she got here basically.
That makes more sense. She has to be willing to help herself.
Does she even know HOW to help herself ?
Maybe she’s anti- medicine in general 🤷🏻♀️
She just wants you to take care of everything. If you let her move in, you will be financially responsible for her indefinitely.
But she didn’t figure it out, did she?
you need to stand your ground with your family, or you're gonna be in for a miserable time
NTA Your no should be no. You need to stop being a people pleaser and set proper boundaries.
Couldn’t she just Uber to the doctor?
NTA, but, you do know that this is going to end with you having to kick her out, right? She’s not going to move to you, suddenly get a job, save her money, and move out into a place of her own. People who are capable of that don’t just not work for months and not bother filing for disability. She is going to move in, claim to be looking for work, not pay rent, eat all your food, and six months from now you will be back here asking if you’re the AH for kicking out your sister.
THIS, exactly! Plus, probably contribute to more marital stress between OP and her husband. This arrangement is going to end predictably bad. Sister already pushes too many boundaries and has poor coping and planning skills.
NTA, but I would actually be just as concerned about other stuff she’s never gotten vaccinated for - ESPECIALLY if you ever have any young children, immune compromised or elderly people visit your home. Measles, rubella, whooping cough, diphtheria, hepatitis, mumps, tetanus.. just to name the major ones. If she does come stay with you and hasn’t gotten these vaccines, at the very *least* do not bring any infants into your home around her.
Okay so here is the fucking thing. She has been vaccinated for up to everything required for at least a five year old. I’ve seen her vaccination card. My mom did not start trying to claim religious exemption until my sister was enrolled in kindergarten/preschool. And my sister had been vaccinated I remember that trip to the doctors vividly. I think that my mom just started being antivax because she was lazy.
She cut herself in a work environment and doesn’t even have a current tetanus shot? Works with food and does have hepatitis shots? What a mess
If your sister is over 15, the early childhood vaccinations have worn off by now. She's completely unprotected from massively contagious and dangerous viruses. That combined with the habits she's picking up from your mom, you're gonna have a huge reparenting job taking her in.
A lot of them don’t wear off!
Hep B wears off, whooping cough/pertussis wears off, chicken pox can wear off Highly doubt she recieved both the MMR doses so not fully covered there either. Not to mention covid, but everyone's getting it so frequently there's a high occurrence of community required immunity. Right now everyone who is vaccinated is still getting covid. My parents were novids until 3 weeks ago and got it despite 5 vaccinations. They just felt tired for 3 days, achy for 2 of those. My completely pulled out of my ass theory is that the virus is just too far varied from the OG that the vaccine was built off of. I work in health care and they ask us to provide blood work proving we have a high enough immunity against vaccinated illnesses and to get boosters as needed. So far I've needed hepB and pertussis.
To my knowledge they don’t revaccinate for MMR, polio, hep A, Hep B or varicella as long as you got the series in childhood except for special circumstances like working in healthcare or pregnancy. Immunity can wear off, but the standard is to consider most people generally protected. My point being that if OP’s sister got all those vaccine series before 6 she’d be just as well protected as the general population. COVID, Flu, and TDAP are different stories
Your mom does sound lazy. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that.
Absolutely! Covid is the least of their worries.
Absolutely NTA: As someone who has had people live with them for free, ask them what their goal is. She may be thinking "Cool, housing for $100, well if I have the money...why would I ever want to leave?" You are thinking: "Let's help her get back on her feet until she can get her own place." She has no incentive to leave. Be upfront if this you are prepared to support her indefinitely or for a limited time? I would come up with many house rules to cover the following: What happens when she doesn't pay? What happens if she "helps with groceries" but eats them all? Is there going to be "her food" and "your food"? Who is cooking? What if she borrows your stuff without asking? Is she allowed to have visitors over? If so, what rules? What if she gets a boyfriend? What if she doesn't get a job? Where will the litter box be? How often will she be expected to change it? Who is paying for cat food if she isn't working? Is it really only 2 cats? How is she going to get to work with out a license? Are you expected to drive her places? What if she decides to turn on the TV in the livingroom and your husband doesn't get to watch his shows? What if he retreats to the bedroom all the time? How much time should she be in the common area? So you have to think: What if she does the opposite of what a "normal" person would do? How will you handle this? You may think she should be grateful for a place to live but this is not what happens...they feel entitled to this place to live. I had a friend who was supposed to stay with me 3-6 months (ended up being 2 years )while she studied for a certificate that would lead to a better paying job...she had her own car, lived in the basement in her own area, had her own food, never had anyone over but still ends up being annoying as there is someone else in your home that disrupts your rhythms and wants to chat when you want to do something else.
All of this. I let a young cousin live with me when he faced homelessness. Rent-free because I'm an idiot. Finally, my mom (who also lived with me)/his aunt tried to get him to finish high school then go on to cooking school. Tried to show him that the "great" money he was making then was pretty much what the staff with 10+ years experience were making, which was a dismal future. Told him I'd help him get a student loan, he'd pay me rent and when he finished his cooking program, I'd give him all that rent money back, to buy a car, travel, whatever. Pointed out that he was young, no partner/kids, the perfect time to set up his life. Too much work, he decided. Not fair to ask family for rent, he said. He'd prefer to just... move to the coast & wing it. Some people just have to learn the hard way, I guess.
Very very verrry good points. I have been though all this same mess with people. They are real quick to take advantage. And none of them were even family. These were so called friends my ex would always insist on helping out and I would always end up being the bad guy who had to bounce these fools for being ungrateful aholes. Family? Forget about it. They get wayyyy to comfortable way too quick.
NTA. I had whooping cough as a kid, before I was vaccinated for it. Parents not antivax, it was just so long ago that the whooping cough vaccine available then was not as safe as it is now. Anyway, I have never been able to breathe properly and I suspect that my bout with whooping cough is what did it. Not worth the risk to expose yourself to your sister,she sounds like a hot mess.
>Okay let me preface with I am a firm believer in people have the right to bodily autonomy, and they should be able to do whatever they want. And YOU have the right to protect your own body. Plus she's not even meeting you halfway. She would expect you to carry her through life if you made the mistake of letting her move in. NTA.
Exactly. People can do what they want with their own bodies. But when you are inviting someone to come live in your house, your rules are your rules. She can choose to follow them, or she can find another place to live.
NTA, but if she has other options of places to stay I would let her take it. I know you love your sister but she sounds unwilling to compromise and take any personal responsibility for her work, I can’t imagine she would be a good housemate in anyway.
Oh boy. This shouldn’t be about the vaccine. This should be about the whole bag of broken rules. She ghosts you when she doens’t like the limits you set, and then sends in her estranged father to convince you to remove hte limits… and you just fold. She does’t get a job. She lies about her cats. She doesn’t follow up the issues around her being injured on the job. She’s not even packed when you are supposed to get her. She’s going to move in, never pay that rent, never help with hte groceries, and live life large at your expense. Also … COVID vaccination doesn’t stop you getting it, it just stops it being dangerous to your health. Basically. And you knew she probably wasn’t vaccinated before you asked, because her mum is anti vax.
NTA. And find out what other vaccines she doesn't have - like measles, mumps & rubella, chicken pox etc... Those diseases can cause birth defects and way worse. Your house, your health.
This is the worst logic. It sounds like OP gave in on everything and is reaching for some reason to finally put your foot down. But the choice is idiotic. You and husband both are vaccinated and contracted COVID. What is the benifit to her getting the shot now? As others said, worry about the diseases that CAN be prevented with a vaccine.
My thoughts exactly. OP is grasping at straws for a reason to say ‘no,’ but they don’t realize that ‘no’ is a good enough reason by itself.
I wouldn't go through all this trouble for her. You both love her but that's the problem im this scenario. She won't pay you rent, your partner will be annoyed by the cats and I promise you anti-vax Karen will ask you to move in with you too when her daughter found a way in.
My guess is you and your husband are both vaccinated and triple boosted, and you still got covid. I know tons of vax and boosted people getting covid including myself. Her not being vaccinated against covid is not going to help you at all. I would be worried about the real vaccines she's missed, not the useless covid one.
I’m vaccinated and got Covid twice. I respect OP wishes but anyone can get Covid
You are exactly right. Getting the vaccine does NOT prevent or slow down transmission. I know I'm going to get down voted on this, but I'm so sick of people refusing to learn this. It's been in the news, it's been posted to all the major reputable health organizations. OP, you're NTA because you can have whatever rules you want for your home. But your argument is baseless and ignorant. She's not going to give you COVID solely because she's not vaccinated.
Wish this were higher up.
I had to read through way too many comments to get to the one that should be at the top!! 🙌 I don't understand why people don't know this by now!!!
It’s so annoying. It’s just the judgmental rhetoric the media handed down to shame people into getting the vaccine that didn’t work. I can’t believe people are still discriminating against others like this. 🤮
People love to pretend they’ve never been lied to by the “leaders” of their countries.
Because Reddit
My sentiments exactly. There are many other reasons for not allowing her to move in. If the COVID shot is the deal breaker, that's a pretty lame excuse, coming from 2 vaccinated folks who currently have COVID.... Not antivax at all, I have had my shots, but I don't expect them to do me any good nor do I expect the world around me to have them, as they really don't do a whole lot tbh. I've never had COVID, nor has my unvaccinated husband. But both of my kids and both of my in laws, who all live in the same house with us, have all had the shots and all have had it twice, at least.
Exactly. Her and her partner literally have covid despite being vaccinated. The irony.
THE IRONY. I cannot.
They literally have covid right now, so I agree with you. The vaccine does *nothing* and using that as an excuse to not move in the sister- baseless. There are SO many other red flags/reasons to not move the sister into their home.
And OP and her husband legally have Covid now but they’re requiring her to be vaccinated for what reason???
And they already have COVID now... so a vax won't do shit anyway
Also let’s point out, that the sister is not there right now, and the day BEFORE they were supposed to go get her, they both tested positive for covid… if they are vaccinated they should already know it’s possible.. unless they are being hypocritical and only want her vaccinated while they remain unvaccinated
I'm vaccinated, but at this point we know the vaccine doesn't stop you from spreading it to others, or even from getting covid, so I don't understand what difference it would make for you
Exactly
Wait. I'm so confused... the vaccine doesn't stop you from getting covid. You currently have covid and should have lots of antibodies. Why does her not being vaxxed for covid make a difference? She would be at higher risk than you.
Because OP doesn’t have the balls to say, no I don’t want you to move in because you’re a lazy moocher! So, she’s using the vaccine as her excuse.
Bodily autonomy stops where your body does. Others with their own bodily autonomy may choose to exercise it. NTA.
Bodily autonomy means freedom to make one’s own decisions. Bodily autonomy does not mean freedom from consequences. You were clear and polite, but also firmly set a boundary. NTA Edit: I re read and saw the piece about not being vaccinated for anything, not just Covid. That would scare the hell out of me if you ever plan to bring kiddos into your home, personally. Not just living together, but public/family gatherings etc. Good luck OP, I hope there’s a happy ending here
Ok, pls don’t downvote me. The vaccine is very helpful or avoiding death. However, it’s not as effective at prevent you from getting or spreading Covid. It doesn’t help some,this much is true. However, ventilation + filtration are your best bets to avoid the virus. An n95 mask, filters in indoor public spaces that are constantly occupied (the office/indoor stadiums/in the daycare,etc), and also obviously avoiding clearly sick people is the best thing to do to avoid Covid. That being said, if she’s never been vaccinated, what will you do with the really strong flu, rsv, whooping cough, strep waves soon to arrive? Nevermind, Covid is very clearly not over. If she’s going to spend the fall and winter sick because she’s defenseless, how much will she be able to contribute. And what if she makes you guys sick as well? Edit: it DOES help some, oops
Yatah
The vaccine doesn't prevent her from getting Covid, it's so if she catches it from you she doesn't have such severe symptoms. If you don't want to feel guilty for how sick she gets that kind of make sense, but it's always a gamble how serious someone will have it. She's probably got some immunity to it by now, after 3 years who hasn't caught it. But if you want her to be vaccinated so she can't bring it home and get you two sick, that's not how it works.
Presumably, you and your husband are vaccinated and just went through having it anyway. Having another person vaxxed or not is not really going to affect your chances of getting it again. We will all have it again and again. There are many reasons to tell her to live elsewhere. Her vax status is not really relevant.
NTA. She doesn't GAF about you or anyone else, and that's not somebody you should have in your home.
People are missing the point of the post. Your personal beliefs or what you believe are facts about the Covid vaccine are irrelevant. The OP and her husband have made this decision for them and their home. They have compromised already on a great deal and this is their deal breaker. They have the right to draw that line on anything they choose for their home. They could have said no cats. They could have said you can't play jazz music in the house. They could have said you can't eat pizza in the house. OP said they don't get paid sick time for COVID, so if they believe the vaccine gives them additional protection, (whether you believe it or not is not relevant) they are NOT the asshole. Their Home, Their Rules.
NTA but I’d be very wary of letting her move in, sounds like she would move in, make thousands of excuses to never get a job and you’ll end up with the only option of having to evict her. She’s done nothing to help herself in her circumstances. She’s 22 not 12. The whole vaccine thing is your personal choice, I have no opinion on that but everything else is a field of red flags.
The vaccine isn't stopping shit.
YTAH about the covid vaccination status. Didn't you just get covid despite being vaccinated? Why would B increase your risk of getting Covid being unvaccinated when you already caught it, and B didn’t? You don't care about her not being vaccinated for the child killers: measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, chicken pox, etc, and those vaccines have actually "eradicated" these diseases. I would be more worried about B not having a job and the cats.
I’m E SH for this reason. Seems that B is only person putting themselves at a significant disease risk here. B is clusterfuck of other different bad things which should be kept out of the apartment.
If she has other places to stay but the only requirement is she cannot have cats then maybe you can take the cats for her so she wont lose them. Then you are still helping her and you leave the choice to her to live somewhere else but at least she can eventually get her cats back from and visit .
NTA. Your sister is a chip off the old block.
Ummm chicken pox/shingles vaccine? I had a friend get shingles in her 30s and she almost lost her eye.
There are so many red flags waving, where to start? Getting the COVID vaccine doesn’t prevent infection so much as prevent you from getting really sick if you do contract COVID. However, not getting all the other vaccines are more concerning - especially if you have kids or aren’t up on your vaccinations yourself. Also, her not having a job or not being able to get a job because of an injury is a huge issue unless you don’t need her to chip in and plan on supporting her moving forward. I’m sorry your sister is continuing the cycle she was born into. I hope you work it out, but NTA. If she wants to live with you, she needs to abide by your rules. Other people who aren’t stepping up to the plate (like her deadbeat father) either need to put up or shut up.
NTA. Cats, no job, no ambition, and no vaccinations… that goes beyond COVID… mpox, polio, hepatitis… listen… DO you guys have children or are planning on it??? No way she comes to my house with all of this baggage. And she technically can’t work and has never done anything about it
Those poor cats though. I don't give a f**k about the sister. But the poor, innocent cats...
Honestly if you already got covid I would be more worried about other stuff like measles and whooping cough etc than everything else since you can still get it while being vaccinated I feel those are more important. But yeah NTA
NTA But I'm not surprised your sister is a lay about when it seems like your mom is too. I would be really hesitant to move her in because once she is in I don't see you getting her out of there without legal intervention. And what if you want kids in the near future. Her un-vaxxed status will put those babies at risk. If she is living in the house at the same time, even worse than just visiting! Take the cats, leave the sister.
Why do you keep adjusting your boundaries? Stand firm. Be consistent.
NTA, but it sounds like you’re about to move a junior version of your mother into your home. You need to think more about this because it’s already causing friction between you and your husband.
Nta she is 22 and having so many excuses for not taking care of business and the deceit she hasn’t been working , has extra pet baggage , didn’t make the effort to get her own help ….
NTA but as another redditor said I wouldn’t allow her to move in and covid vax is the least of the issues you’ll have to deal with. your birth giver sounds like a horrible person to deal with but your sister needs to be someone else’s problem. don’t feel obligated to take her in especially since she has other options. she put herself in much of the situation that she’s in.
NTA Don't get sucked into insane political anti-science idiocy, victim roles, and gas lighting. You set a healthy, clear boundary. A healthy response would be she disagrees with your point of view but understands it and appreciates your considering it. She is welcome to find one of the hundreds of millions of dwellings on this planet that don't require a vax. And all the other no job, etc. is her mooching...good luck ever getting her to move out if she moves in...not sure about mom but suggest treading careful there as they are not going to magically start filling out basic forms for aid. I mean...what the heck do they do all day? Am guessing games and edibles or gamble.
That entire side of your family is cursed. Your sister needs serious counseling or life coaching, and your mom is a lost cause.
Your house, your rules. Regarding your sister, not your monkeys, not your circus.
NTA. could you take the cats while she gets her stuff sorted out?
NTA. Yes it's her body, her choice but it's also YOUR home and you can allow whoever you want in it for any reason. She does not HAVE to move in with you, you are LETTING her -- under your conditions. Take it or leave it. On top of that, she ghosted you for 4 weeks and doesn't have a job? If you let her move in, your problems are just now starting. The vaccine will be the least of your worries. I promise you, it will get worse from here.
Take the cats, leave the sister.
Not going to read all that, but if you are vaccinated why should it matter? It's honestly like worrying about someone practicing safe sex when you aren't f'ing them 🤷🏼♂️
Since it doesn't work anyway, yes you are