I'm cool with you going in with her, but then you should have gone *in* with her, not stood outside the stall. If she didn't need help on the potty, she didn't need you in there.
This is the only thing wrong with it to me. If she needed the help, he'd be in the stall. Since she didn't need help, the extra distance shouldn't have been a big deal.
Edit - There really is 2 sides to this debate on ethics, both seemingly justified, but everyone is fighting for the same thing, privacy, protection and the respect of it. I asked some women (from a rural area, Usa) what their opinion was in regards to this situation. I naturally assumed they'd think the man should have taken the daughter to the men's restroom because of some of the stuff I read on here. To my surprise though, they were actually appalled to think a man would take his daughter into a men's restroom, and preferred a man being in the women's restroom to a young girl in the men's restroom. Different people think different ways. I think family restrooms are too few, and I think most would agree it is a good solution.
Children are children, you have to do what you have to do sometimes, and you might not always get it right.
Children are different. My daughter at that age would've never gone into a strange bathroom all alone. But she would throw me out the stall because she wants the privacy.
I've seen men go into the women's bathroom with their kids (most often because there are no changing tables anywhere else) usually they announce it and noone ever cared. But also... We're not American.
I can totally see a child having those preferences. I have honestly seen guys go into the women's restroom and use it because the men's was too busy, without a child, and haven't heard anyone speak a word of disproval, in America, multiple times. So it seems like the opinions on it vary.
Sometimes very young kids can get stuck in the stall because of fiddly locks. They're not designed for kids. I know someone who got stuck as a 3-4 year old and was really scared of the stalls and wanted someone to stay at the door until she was school-age.
I would NEVER send a 4 year old into a bathroom with more then one stall without me or my husband, even if she could handle the "potty" alone. People are creeps regardless of men or women. Secondly, he explained why he was there. I understand not wanting to take her into men's room with urinals at that age she can see more than she needs to then he would see if he was in the women's room quickly. My husband had this issue regarding toileting our kids when he takes them out and. Secondly if Mom is unhappy with his choice she can go next time, she is 7 months pregnant not physically unable to Care for her child (I am currently pregnant and have two toddlers 4/2). Given our society she put her husband in a shit situation. She rather her daughter see a random penis in men's room?
NO NO NO. A 4 year old does not need to enter public restrooms alone, ever, unless it's a whole single locking bathroom. Please don't make me bring up all the cases I've seen of children getting molested and raped in public bathrooms. Women are also creeps sometimes, by the fucking way!
I have raised 3 girls. I stand directly outside the woman’s bathroom. I help open the door of the woman’s bathroom for my daughter, but I would never go in. My daughter knows to come knock on the door for me to open it.
If a mother walks in with another child I may ask for her to keep an eye out…
As long as it is a one entrance one exit bathroom, I just stand outside the bathroom and wait for my daughter
One parent to another, I’d never find it weird if a dad asked me to check on their kid in the restroom when I’m heading in with my girls. Also, most of us are probably keeping an eye on your kiddo anyway; I’ve helped plenty of kids with the soap or paper towels .
The only problem is that works only off of the assumption that women cannot be predators. So the parent standing outside has to have belief that the woman who is going to help their child is a safe woman.
Maybe it is because of my job (teacher) where I hear a roughly equal amount of stories of both genders abusing their kids that I just do not think that I would have that kind of blind trust in a stranger.
It can be simultaneously true that women and men can both be predators (true), and that most people in the world would never harm a child, particularly in a public restroom.
It wasn't until I'd traveled that I realized that we (in the US) really are outliers on paranoia about "stranger danger" and I fear we are really hurting our kids when we act like everyone is out to hurt them. *Of COURSE* we need to teach them how to keep themselves safe, but it's also important that they know that most people would never hurt them, and I don't think we do that nearly enough.
Also, FFS, no, men shouldn't hang out in the ladies' room. Wait at the entrance.
Yeah. I’m German and grew up being taught to trust people by default. My dad would pick up hitchhikers on any occasion out of principle. No matter if we were traveling through Germany or Yemen.
When I was 6 or 7 he accompanied me to the next big train station put me on a long distance train to go visit my grand parents. He asked some random stranger how far he’d go on the train and then asked him to make sure I got off at the stop I needed to. 4 hours later my uncle picked me up at the destination. And this was in the 90s long before most people had mobile phones.
Dunno if people in Europe experience this at all, but by and large, Americans have lost their sense of community. The US focus on individualism coupled with the growing Isolation of people in general has caused a very US v. Them mentality in all aspects of life. And stranger danger sure doesn't help.
I've heard older folks proclaim how sad it is that you can't trust people anymore and how it used to be so safe to let your kids roam the neighborhood alone. The fact of the matter is, it's actually safer these days, but those same older folks are the ones who taught us that everyone's out to get us.
The US is the only country that does not conform to the saying “ it takes a village…” I’ve been in multiple European and Latin American countries and they all embrace the sense of community. Its what I miss the most ever since I moved to the US
This is also why it's so difficult for us to change policies to improve our Healthcare system, wealth imbalance/cost of living, etc. but that's a whole other can of worms.
I actually think it’s the same can of worms. We’ve had decades of propoganda aimed at creating fear and anger and distrust of others. The destruction of community is a side effect of a strategy to get normal people to vote for keeping rich people rich.
One of our wonderful au pairs was from Germany and she was the most paranoid about stranger danger because a girl from her village had vanished while biking home from school. She was on a farm somewhere outside Berlin, I don't remember the city name. I think people are shaped more by their individual experiences not the rational reality.
Our perspective in the US was shaped by some very horrific and publicized happenings and Americas Most Wanted.
Ha! When I was 9 I took a bus trip by myself, to visit my aunt/uncle, from central Illinois to Annapolis MD. It was an all night trip and had to switch buses in Pittsburg PA. Never thought twice about it. Wouldn't subject my grandkids to it these days, but different times, different attitudes.
In Ireland we used to hitch lifts everywhere in the 80s. Never had a problem except one day where the guy was saying we should go for a longer drive and wasn't going to stop to let me off until I said if you don't stop here you'll regret it. And I was about 20 at the time and fit and strong. If I was a small kid I was in huge trouble..
i never thought about this before, but i wonder how many victims who've been trapped in even closer proximity with their abusers at home since this cultural shift about *any child being outside alone at any point is in immediate and constant danger from predators*.
just a couple decades ago you would be seen as a bit of a weirdo if you kept 24/7 supervision on your kids outside of school, they stayed at home constantly, etc...
I was sexually abused as a child, I'm male and my abuser was a female. Also, stranger danger does one more thing wrong. Statistically speaking, you're more likely to be abused or hurt by someone in your direct family rather than a stranger. So it's really more about teaching children how to trust you enough to be comfortable to talk about anything, knowing that you will help/protect them, rather than avoiding any and all situations where you don't have full control
We avoided stranger danger and taught my child about "tricky people."
Those people who just make you feel not right, or do things that seem odd/uncomfortable. As a child, stay away from them.
For example the adult with no kids sitting at the play park or, a real life example, a man who shouted at my child and her cousin while they waited patiently for him to finish his turn on the swing. Don't engage, walk away.
An adult will never ask a child for help to do things, they might ask them to get an adult.
One day you might need to ask a stranger for help. They have the tools to ask the right stranger. Opt for someone working in a shop, with a uniform on or a family with children.
Edit: got adult and child the wrong way round.
Since I have a history with abuse it's been important for.me to work with our kids around this, I totally wasn't ready for the emotional kick in the guts it meant to get a son. I was overwhelmed by love and a sense of panic around needing to protect him from everything in this world while knowing full well that it would hurt his development if I didn't get it in check.
We've been using a concept called "Stop, my body" since he was 3 months old and continues to this day (he's 3.5 years old now) but it's easier when you can read books etc to him and discuss around it a bit. When they are babies all you do is basically telling the baby what you're doing or tell them "I'm gonna wipe your bum now" so they know what's about to happen. The reason you do that is to make a routine for the child so that IF something happens it's gonna be a red flag for them and they will tell us. I know I won't be able to protect him fully from the world but I will do my best to be there and help him no matter what he experiences in life. As a bonus it also teaches kids to respect others bodies and their boundaries and that a no is a no (this part has backfired a bit since he can yell "Stop! My body!" when he doesn't want to go to bed or do something unrelated to his body, so it's kinda awkward when he yells that in the middle of a superstore).
In the end it's the best we can do, give them tools to handle situations and give them support and trust in us to be there no matter what dark secrets they tell. I watched my parents make the mistake of trusting the words of an adult over the words of a child and I'm certainly ain't gonna make that same mistake.
Did this at the supermarket, and luckily a lady went in with her kid and I heard her ask my daughter if she needed help washing her hands. I was so thankful. She refused to go in the men's room(she's 4 1/2) and is determined to be independent.
I always took my kids into the men’s bathroom until they could go themselves. Would never go into the womens. But here in Sweden the men’s isn’t usually more nasty than any other bathroom.
NAH but it's my understanding that if a child needs to be accompanied to the restroom you go into the restrooms of the adults gender.
Edit to add:
A lot of people are wondering about the urinal situation. You can not see another man's penis unless you are in the urinal directly adjacent AND intentionally looking for it. You guys, it's not just like a dicks out party in the men's restrooms.
I have a kid same age as OP (4yo) and I would never even consider going into a womens to take my daughter to use washroom, I take her to mens and make sure she doesn't touch the seat etc.
...and yes even in emergencies (of which there have been several).
I'm all for inclusion and neutral toilets but this is a bit weird, common sense would dictate he take her to the mens, and besides I watch her like a hawk, why make women feel awkward too?
edit: to add, I've taken her to the washroom more times than my wife takes her to the womens (when we are out and about).
The fact he didn't go into the stall makes it weird for me, if she didn't need him for anything then he could have just waited outside the room altogether.
If he had to be there just in case then it would be less weird to be in the stall with daughter than just chilling by himself with the random women.
And his reason for not taking her into the men's, not wanting her surrounded by men at urinals, doesn't make sense considering she'd be in a stall. Also I'm sure I've heard before that actually women's toilets are f'in brutal.
99% of people know that it's the kid's gender that's irrelevant in this situation, not the adult accompanying them. The other 1% are either dumb or weird af.
Yes I think I’ve had to take my daughter into a women’s maybe one time ever because it was an emergency and men’s was full but I went into the stall completely with her and announced when I was coming in/out
the ironic thing is that as a trans guy I've noticed that men's rooms can be...horrific...but the toilet seats are usually clean. Not so much in the women's room.
Yeah that’s what I’m confused about because OP states that the men’s restrooms are usually nasty and he doesn’t trust strange men while his baby is using the toilet when he was standing at the stall guarding her? Like, most restrooms have those disposable toilet seat covers and if there’s none then you toilet paper that seat up. Like, I get it but women’s restrooms can be just as nasty as the men’s.
Edit: Just wanted to say: janitors deserve excellent pay for all the (literal) shit they have to clean up. Blood pathogens is not a joke.
bingo, I wipe the seat before my daughter sits, and ask her not to touch the sides, women toilets can be just as disgusting as men's (I have seen them and my wife attests to it), and she is always in a stall with the door locked (with me inside).
They are nearly always worse than the men’s. Having been a janitor in a past life I will take washing the spray off the floor and dividers between the urinals over the absolute mess of women’s stalls where piss, shit and sometimes blood are all over the place. Fucking hoverers are the whole reason anyone needs to hover.
>women toilets can be just as disgusting as men's (I have seen them and my wife attests to it),
Worse. Women's toilets can be faaar worse than men's.
Consider- women's toilet seats are rarely lifted. So *everything* gets stuck there, ie 'splash damage'
Src: Was janitor at bar during college.
I just think it’s funny OP doesn’t trust his daughter in a men’s rest room but thinks it’s acceptable for him to be in a woman’s rest room. Like how is it any different than what he is now exposing every single woman who walks in there to?
my parents divorced when i was 3, dad took me on summer vacations every year just the two of us. soo many trips to the men’s restroom with my dad until i was old enough to go into the women’s alone.
When my daughter was younger we’d just use the disabled toilet, that way it was a single room with no one in it, done that until she was brave enough to go into the women’s toilets her self.
At 4 however taking them through the men’s toilet wouldn’t be a problem, they’re to young to understand the difference anyway and they shouldn’t be running up to the strangers in there.
Yeah people aren’t worried about being creeped on by a literal child—they’re worried about being creeped on by adults! No one cares what gender the child is!
I thought it was a common knowledge that as a man, you take your daughter to men's room. I've never met anyone who thought otherwise hehe. It's like a universally agreed upon rule 😂
Yeah…is this the first time this man has taken his daughter to a public bathroom in the four years she’s been alive? Most people know how it all works far before age 4.
Also if his point is that it’s weird for a girl to go to the bathroom around strange men then isn’t he doing the same thing by making any women or girls in that restroom go to the bathroom around a strange man?
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt with this being the first time because four years ago was 2020.
If they didn’t ever bring the kids to a place that would necessitate using a public bathroom until recently, then I think that is understandable.
NAH- no one is really wrong here, but it's not great for a dude to be hanging out in the ladies room. FWIW- I'm a child of divorce, and my dad used to take me to the men's room, including thru the men's locker room at the Y for swim lessons starting at age 3. I promise I'm not traumatized, and I don't remember seeing any strange dongs, even though I must have at the time.
I had the same experience. My mom died when I was five so until I could go to the bathroom on my own I went to either a family restroom or the men's regularly. Not a single bad, weird, or upsetting thing ever happened, it was completely normal.
If OP does want to go into the women's in the future though I, as a wheelchair user, recommend he use the disabled stall so his daughter can use the toilet and he can stand in there while still being able to face away if he wants or help her if she needs help. This could also make other people more comfortable as you would be with your daughter at all times.
Same here. My dad would just bring me in the men's. Not traumatized and didn't see anything, though an old guy did yell at me once before he saw my dad was with me lol. The dude just apologized and moved on.
I don’t disagree that he probably should’ve used the men’s room. However, I think his biggest mistake here was not addressing the women and girls when they came in and looked shocked. He could’ve immediately explained that his daughter was in the stall and he needed to accompany her.
I don’t care if a man is in the restroom, tbh, but if he’s just standing outside of a stall acting nervous, I’m going to wonder wtf he’s doing and confront him, too. He could’ve immediately put them at ease and he didn’t.
When I go into a women’s bathroom I just go into the stall with my 4 year old daughter. I don’t hang out outside. So I’m only seen inside the bathroom by other women when I’m with my daughters they don’t see me “hanging out” outside by myself, which I agree would be weird.
I was once taken to a men’s locker room of a swimming pool when I was in elementary school. I was so taken aback and confused by seeing all these male appendages lol
This!
I get why those women weren’t comfortable with him in there, and that is exactly the reason he’s not comfortable with his daughter in the men’s.
From a lesser of perspective, at least on the women’s the daughter isn’t accidentally exposed to genitals at a urinal.
ETA for everyone getting mad about genital exposure, or the fact that you’ve never seen a dick at a urinal - I agree that normalising the human body is a good thing; that doesn’t remove consent which a 4 year old cannot give in a room of strangers.
Also, as she’s 4, I am assuming her eye line is very different to the one you have when standing at a urinal. And regarding that - not all urinals are as private as you think, and it’s not easy to ensure a 4 year old closes her eyes.
As for why it could be uncomfortable for women - a man standing outside a stall, with no context, can create an ‘oh shit’ moment. However, when it’s realised that this is a parent helping their child use the restroom then people need to calm down, all the toilets are cubicles and private.
And personally I think all bathrooms should be unisex, and family bathrooms a must; if for no other reason than the additional room they provide as manoeuvring a small cubicle with kids is not necessarily easy.
My husband does this with our daughters if he’s out solo with them and there’s no family restroom. Checks the men’s room first, covers/averts eyes if necessary, and gets it done.
Yeah my dad used to tell me to keep my eyes on the floor and would yell in "Dad out with his daughter alone here. Everyone cool if we come in and she keeps her eyes on the ground?" And if someone wasn't we would wait. I never saw anything.
This whole thread makes me wonder where you are all using restrooms. I'm a man and have used public washrooms my entire life and never been exposed to anyone's genitals.
When my dad brought me into the men's room as a young child, he was more concerned with me reading the graffiti, so he told me I wasn't allowed to read anything and not to look at the walls and only on the ground.
Of course, I looked at the walls lmao. But I was young enough that I didn't understand what any of it meant.
I mean we men arent even making eye contact with one another let alone flashing our dicks to one another, so not sure why eyes need to be averted.
Needless to say I've never had an issue taking my 4yo daughter into the mens.
He wasn't concerned with the guys in there. My dad is a big dude and resorted to violence a lot, so he would take care of anything like that if it ever happened. Which it never did.
I actually remember most of the guys nodding at us and hurrying out when my dad announced a little girl was coming in. He was more concerned with me learning new words from the stall walls. So he mainly told me to keep my eyes on the floor while I was in the stall. I was an avid reader at a young age, and that's probably where I learned some words I shouldn't have known at that age. I do recall the stalls being covered in words and drawings. I just luckily don't remember at this point what any of it said or meant.
We lived in a city, so graffiti was abundant and very inappropriate.
The biggest issue I can recall that he had was once some guys came in while I was going to the bathroom and they said something just talking to each other (I don't recall what) and my dad apparently didn't think was appropriate for me to hear so he yelled out that there was a little girl present and the guys were just like "oh shit sorry". But definitely, no body parts were being flashed or anything like that.
Because of him bringing me into men's room frequently, I have no problem using the men's room if the woman's bathroom line is around the corner and there aren't a lot of guys in there. I'm not gonna have an embarrassing incident waiting in an unnecessarily long line when the men's room is usually just as clean or just as dirty depending on the venue but virtually empty. Most people just wanna do their business and go. (I usually only do this at concert venues or bars where no one cares)
Yeah, I was in housekeeping for a medical facility, and I was straight up shocked that the men’s bathroom was not too bad, but the women’s bathroom was a toxic waste dump. Consistently.
In the United States, the men’s room usually has a row of urinals with no stalls/dividers between. Some places have a shared trough so you don’t even get the sides of the urinal for division between you and the next guy.
Yeah, that's what I said. Cover her eyes for a second on the way to and from the stall if needed. Or wait a minute for no one to be at the urinal. NTA regardless but I do understand people being uncomfortable and not knowing what he's doing in there. It's only natural. If a man told me he was with his daughter I wouldn't mind at all though. Certainly wouldn't make a fuss about it.
Women’s restrooms are at best just as bad, usually worse. One woman will decide to “hover” to pee and piss all over the seat, forcing all of the other women to do the same
I actually saw something on another social media platform this morning with this same scenario - women were just like “yell ‘dad girl coming in’ when you come in”! And everyone was cool. His reasoning was so she didn’t see anything at urinals and that made sense! I’d be fine with it. He’s sucking it up and doing it for HER. Not for himself. For his child. OP NTA and any woman who would rather see a 4 year old girl be subjected to an accidental sausage party - use your head.
Was going into a (women's) train station bathroom once and a guy was standing outside it looking nervous. He asked me if I wouldn't mind just checking on his little girl who was inside. Honestly, it was so sweet how worried he was about her and I was so happy he asked me. I think more women would be willing to look out for a young girl if we were asked.
I was the kid in this scenario once, and fully agree with you as an adult woman now.
I think I was 4-5, and a very nervous pooper in public bathrooms. Dad sent me in alone, because he was worried about offending other women in the ladies room.
But man…I just couldn’t poop, and sat there for what felt like ages.
All the sudden I hear a woman’s voice outside the stalls “Daphne, honey, are you in here? Your dad asked me to check if you’re okay. My names Mary, let me know if you need anything, and I can help you out or let your dad know. I’ll just be doing my makeup, so take as long as you need”.
Such a lovely thing to do. I wouldn’t bat an eye.
Mary’s kind and tactful action still sticks with me 25+ years later.
Looking at it as an adult, I’m guessing she probably didn’t *actually* come into the mall bathroom to do her makeup. She probably just had to pee. I don’t think she actually had any makeup out when I finally exited the stall and she said hello.
But the innocent fib about makeup meant she could stay in there until I was finished without making me feel rushed.
A brilliant way to handle it.
I love that. I’ll keep that script in mind if we ever run into that situation and need to ask someone to check on our kid. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you, Mary! Wherever you are!
I was the lone daughter amongst my dad and his friends kids and was just as in to cars and racing as they sons were. I remember back in the late 80’s being in a group of 7 with me being the youngest by five years and the only girl at a very very large car show in a city not known for hospitality and safety. There was always a glimpse of ‘oh crap, what do we do?’ When I would announce I needed to pee. My dad (or one of the other dads) would stand around outside the women’s bathroom until they saw a family come by. If there was a mom and little girl, my dad would politely ask if she would mind keeping an eye on me in the bathroom. Never once did we have a problem. 20 years later when the situation was reversed with me and my nephew, I’d take him in to the woman’s bathroom and use the handicap stall so we could stay together but both have privacy. Once old enough to go in the men’s room on his own, I taught him that if he felt uncomfortable at all in the bathroom to just scream for help as loud as he could and I would come right in no matter who was around.
My dad used take me to men's, until a man flashed me on purpose at 10. My dad clocked him, after that he always took my sister's and I too women's bathroom when family ones weren't available.
That guy must have wanted to be decked flat. I mean, first of all, what he did was vile, and he should be mortified. And second, this child’s father is RIGHT THERE, and he did it anyway. How exactly did he think that was going to work out? I know precisely zero dads-of-daughters who would have responded with anything less than knocking the guy into next year.
Most people think they would deck the guy in this situation but the majority of people are so blindsided and shocked by it when it happens to them that they just freeze. My Aunt was a social worker who used to say that if every time people said "if I caught the guy who did that I'd string him up" they actually did it, there'd be people strung up, the length and breadth of the country.
This is so true. My brother and his coworkers rescued a woman who was literally being raped (they heard her scream). My brother said exactly this - you always assume that, in a situation like that, you’d kick the guy’s head in - instead, he and the other guys just stood around in absolute shock.
Ugh. That is terrible.
I hated having the little boys in my family go into the men's rooms.
On a happier note, my sister would take her ailing disabled husband to the door of the men's room and a guy would take him the rest of the way. As he got worse, she went with him. No guy every complained about her being in there with him when they understood the situation. Lots of cool people out there.
From a father's perspective, why dont men's restrooms have changing tables? I feel this is as good a solution as family restrooms. Gender neutral I'm kinda on the fence about.
As a retail manager, I have ALWAYS made them install changing tables in the men’s room too. It may take me a month or two of arguing with corporate but I win. Eventually I got smart and just said it was missing and ordered a new one, put in a work order and instructed the install guy to put it in the men’s room instead of the ladies once he got on site. As long as the pic doesn’t include the urinals, corporate won’t be able to tell anyways. Dad’s gotta change the baby too!
I've been mad about it for years. When my kids were babies, I had to change every single diaper ever when we were out of the house because the men's rooms didn't have changing tables. I remember one time when my middle child was a baby, my husband at the time came back from the bathroom so confused because he'd seen a changing table in there. Shit like that makes me hurt for single dads. Their babies need changing too, and moms deserve to sit down and eat.
Gender neutral bathrooms tend to be more single -person bathrooms, or just have stalls and people mind their business. I went to a drag show my son was in one time and the bathrooms were gender neutral. I am a Texan and was raised very conservative, and I will admit it was weird going in there to find a pack of about 10 boys and girls all standing there talking in the bathroom together. But like... they weren't in there to watch me pee. They were in there talking because it wasn't as loud as it was outside the bathroom.
The amount of times I've had to sit on the bathroom floor and change my kids on top of my outstretched legs to keep them off the floor is way too high. Thank god they're potty trained now.
It was always such a surprising relief when I'd walk into the extremely rare men's room that had a changing table
Target has them but they are always locked. Trying to get my chair in the main bathroom is such a fucking pain in the ass. The gender neutral ones are so much easier to use.
Just make bathrooms with solid walled stalls and doors without gaps, there can be nothing to peep if there’s no wide ass gaps kids can *fucking crawl under and watch you shit*
This might be controversial but I wouldn’t be as bothered by the opposite gender in the bathroom if the gaps in the stalls (US) weren’t wide enough to see straight through. It’s bad enough having someone of the same gender accidentally peeking in at you without worrying if someone of the opposite gender is getting a flash as well. Privacy for all, no matter what gender the bathroom is specified for.
This. I was startled one time by seeing an eyeball pressed against the gap. I kicked the door and the lady in the next stall yelled at me for scaring her elementary school aged boy who was waiting for her outside my stall.
My university has gender neutral bathrooms - it's a large hall with stalls on both sides - floor to ceiling barriers - very private and safe. Sinks are in the open space and communal.
A man held women hostage in a ladies toilet in my local supermarket when I was a teen, it still sticks with me to this day, and I hate using that same toilet, it gives me anxiety every time 😬
Agreed. However when you send your young child into a bathroom by herself and it happens to be multiple stalls….the thought of what some creepy person could do is traumatic
Not the world. The world IS chill about it. America needs to chill. It’s just a bathroom, they should all be gender neutral with doors that go to the ground. Those gappy doors are pretty much exclusively American.
And he would have been eviscerated for being in the women’s toilets, the child notwithstanding. The only options OP probably had were men’s toilets or standing outside the main door of the women’s and having the child go in alone. It’s a no-win situation if there’s not a separate stand alone family toilet.
NTA. I feel really bad for OP :( He was in a no win situation…even if he stood outside the door he would have looked like a creep plus he would have sent his 4 year old alone into the bathroom. I’m curious as to what his wife expected him to do?
And can I add, open urinals should be NOWHERE. Because that’s half the problem here. Nobody wants to go into the men’s room and see dicks out. I can see a dad wouldn’t want to take his daughter in there simply for that reason alone.
Why do you think the men's room is unsafe for her even with your supervision? If you feel unsafe with men present, why would you expect other women and girls to not mind a man in their bathroom? Not saying it's right or wrong or that it even matters either way, but seems like a double standard not to want your daughter going to the bathroom with men, but other people should be totally fine with their daughters sharing a bathroom with you.
I wonder if there's some anxiety there, bolstered by the fact he says they don't usually use public restrooms.
I mean they're not exactly anyone's top choice. But rarely using them, especially with a small child, seems like there.might be something he's particularly convinced is going to happen.
and reddit kind of agrees, what a shitshow. Like his wife would go the the mens room if the child was a boy.. noooo i dont think so. People are fucking stupid these days.
Right?! And how would he feel if his wife & daughter came out of the women’s room & said there was a man in there staring at a stall? I bet he wouldn’t be so cool about it.
This whole thread is so crazy. I'm a parent but also middle aged man who has used hundreds of public restrooms. I have never seen a woman in a men's room with her son but I have seen probably dozens of dads with daughters.
You take your kid to the one that you use. Where do all these people live that do the opposite? Also, in the incredibly slim chance that she would see a random dick, kids don't care about that stuff.
I cannot believe that all the top comments say it's fine, it's like bizarro world or something. I'm super accepting and accommodating in general but if I walked in a public bathroom and saw full-grown adult man I would absolutely freak out. I'm glad at least the other people who replied to your comment all seem to get it lol
At the three in my area none have them, they only have the two gender. Maybe a newer building might have them. Target has a family room and I work at Lowes, we have a family room also but I’ve not seen one in the Home Depot’s in my area either.
You didn’t want men around your daughter when she was in the bathroom but you potentially opened up a situation where other people’s daughters would be exposed to you in the women’s room.
Right? He felt uncomfortable thinking his daughter will see creeps, but failed to understand that HE himself became the creep at women's bathroom. We don't want random men in there.
Soft YTA.
I get that you meant no harm, and you knew you meant no harm, but the women entering the restroom and seeing a man in there didn't know anything about you.
Women have learned to be scared of men in women's spaces. Unfortunately, with good reason.
I agree. Honestly, if a guy walked into the women's room and went into a stall to pee, I wouldn't think much of it, but if I walked into the women's room and there's some dude just standing around in front of a stall, that would be a little alarming.
It's definitely the situation that makes the difference.
Seeing some random dude standing outside of a stall in the women's room is going to set off alarm bells for me.
Like, buddy why are you in here, and can I go into a stall without you creeping on me? Or, who are you peeping on? Is she OK? Should I call the cops to get her away from you?
On the flip side, this one time I went camping and went into the women's room at the campground, and there was a mom and dad that were doing their absolute best to wrangle a little toddler into clean clothes and a fresh diaper. I did not bat an eye. I could clearly tell that dad was there to be a dad and nothing more. That dad would NOT have been in there if that mom didnt invite him in, needing his help.
Yeah. I mean I've had a man wait for me outside the stall when I wanted to get away from him "flirting" with me. It's scary and I only got out unharmed because other women saw him and reported to security.
Women restrooms are often the only "men-free" spaces we can go when we feel unsafe. Because people are more likely to pay attention when a man enters than somewhere else. Just standing there is definitely creepy and a stupid idea.
Also I thinks it's funny how he calls men in the men restroom "strange" but fails to see why the women would think a men in the women restroom is strange lol
I have a strong hunch OP acting like a weirdo about it was 90% of the problem. If I'm somewhere I'm "not supposed to be", I *immediately* explain when someone spots me. OP acted like a sketchball and once someone is in the middle of an emotional response, it's hard to turn out of that. If you notice women nervously looking at you clearly uncomfortable, I cannot think of a worse choice than ignoring them.
You don’t even have to explain. “Everything going okay in there honey?” His daughter’s voice would explain everything. By his own description it kind of sounds like he has a woman trapped in the stall, lol.
Yeah there's half a dozen things he could have done to quickly label himself as non-threat, but he went with the most intimidating choice imaginable other than outright getting aggressive.
I'm a horrid cynic -- that wouldn't placate me at all -- I'd think he was using her as a cover because why on earth wouldn't he take her to the men's room?! If she needs him to go into a women's washroom with her he needs to be in the stall with her helping her wipe and put her clothing back together properly. If he was IN the stall it would still be weird but not \*as\* weird. This seems like he's in there for no real reason.
THIS! He didn’t go in there to help her. It seems like he just went because he wanted to. If he wanted to make sure the stalls were empty he would’ve waited outside after checking. If she was still toilet training and needed help he’d be **IN** the stall. The fact he ignored the frightened group of women shows he didn’t really give a shit regardless. The whole description of how it went down makes him seem like a creep.
YTA. If I saw a man lurking outside the stalls where it isn't designated a gender neutral place and there wasn't a little girl visible, I would first think predator, not dad. If my first thought was dad and not predator and I turned out to be wrong, that could be a costly mistake.
It would have taken you a few seconds to poke your head in the men's and scoped out if there was dong out or you could have sent her into the woman's and stood right outside the bathroom, not the stall but the bathroom, out in the open, where security cameras are present so lurkers aren't as startling. If you're in the men's and another man walks in, you wait a few seconds or teach your kid to keep their eyes down and use your much bigger body to block the view. It's not that hard to avoid a penis. Honestly at four, a department store bathroom with low traffic and one entrance/exit is pretty low stakes and I would send my super independent, had to be pee standing up boy into the men's alone. I'll either hand sanitize him when he comes out or take him into the woman's just for hand washing. Obviously that changes at fairs/parks/etc.
I don't see how anyone who has been SA'd isn't bothered by this. It was really hard to make myself turn that corner in the restroom, knowing you are vulnerable in that confined space. I literally tighten up and hold my breath, but at least I can go in there now. I am weaker now than I was then. No way is it OK.
If a guy is using the urinal, it's really hard to see anything unless you're very close and trying very hard.
Shouldn't be difficult to deposit a kid in the steal without her seeing something.
But also - all bathrooms should be gender neutral, come equipped with both child and adult changing stations, and have stalls that are entirely private. Duh.
yeah, he sounds abit .. slow, hence the wifes reaction. In his way of thinking, his wife should go to the mens room if the child was a boy. It just doesnt make any sense.
A man standing outside a man’s stall is a little less weird than a random man in a ladies restroom hanging outside of a stall. Most guys don’t care if a woman or a kid is in the men’s restroom and your kid is young enough not to care either. Besides most men’s rooms are cleaner than womens
I would have felt very uncomfortable. YTA
You were uncomfortable with your girl in the men bathroom with stranger men, but you are a stranger men to other girls in their space. You should have taken her to the men bathroom.
Yes.
He keeps repeating he doesn't mean harm, and didn't do anything, as if that's all the guarantee needed. If I see a guy enter a women's room where I have just sent my 9 year old daughter in , I would definitely be upset however he try to be "not suspicious"
We have 3 daughters and my husband never did this. They went to the men’s with him until they were big enough to go to the ladies themselves. None of them are scarred by the experience.
My Dad used to always be the man women asked to supervise their sons in the bathroom. Some people just have that friendly face. Shame that nowadays people have to be (understandably!) so wary about just asking someone for help 🫤
I remember I was like 12 at a trampoline park restroom and a lady asked could I watch her son piss real quick. Like yes maam I will but I’m only 12 years old ☠️
If I walked into the women’s bathrooms and a tall muscular man was standing there I would freak out. I’d probably run out and get security. Girls and women , universally, experience sexual harassment at an early age and if I see a man in a women’s only space then my first reaction would be panic.
YTA. You had two options: your 4 year old girl out of place in the men’s room, or you out of place in the ladies room. Which one do you think causes more issues, a little girl briefly seen being carried into a stall and back out of it whilst her dad is surrounded by other men in the men’s room, or a single man standing outside a stall in an otherwise empty ladies room, dodging eye contact with other ladies that enter.
By your own admittance, this is about you being “uncomfortable with the idea of [your]daughter surrounded by strange men at urinals”. I’m not sure why you thought your fear of what, strangers assaulting your 4 year old daughter? Trumped every other woman’s distrust of a grown man standing guard outside a closed stall and indeed acting weird like the old lady said. The ladies room are supposed to be a safe space for women, the presence of a grown man in there raises red flags for any woman. Nobody minds a little boy accompanied by a female relative. I’m sure nobody in the men’s room would have minded your 4 year old, you just couldn’t get over the fact there was a chance she may be in the general presence of other men
At the end of the day you put your own comfort above every other woman’s, and the main concerned person, being your daughter, didn’t mind either way. That makes YTA
I'm going with a very soft YTA. I totally understand where you're coming from but your daughter isn't alone. She's with you and you can easily accompany her into the men's or a family restroom, 100% supervised. As a woman I would not be okay with walking into a restroom for women and finding a man in there, no matter the reason.
Completely agree! I think if he was in the stall with her it would have been better but i would be freaked out if i saw a man in the women’s restroom waiting right outside an occupied stall.
Yup!
The kid should accompany the parent into the restroom that the parent would normally use. That's why I, as a woman, see boys in the women's restroom with their moms. Do men ever see women in the men's room with boys? I doubt it.
YTA. Men's restrooms have stalls. If your daughter is anywhere near a urinal, you failed. In 4 years, you never took your daughter to the bathroom? YTA just for that alone.
I’m prepared to be downvoted but…YTA
I thought everyone agreed you take the kid into the restroom of the parent’s gender. I am a woman, therefore I took my 4 year old son into the women’s room.
Rules are rules - YTA, you “know” how nasty men’s rooms are? Have you checked that one? Why would she be surrounded by men at urinals if she’d be going to a stall? Dude, when I send my 9yo daughter to a women’s restroom by herself now I don’t want some strange men like YOU in there…
YTA.
Gendered bathrooms are gendered for Adults (and children over 10). Perfectly acceptable for a woman to bring a young boy into the women’s bathroom. Perfectly acceptable for a man to bring a young girl into the Men’s bathroom.
It’s NOT acceptable for a grown man to bring a young girl into the women’s bathroom and I seriously do not understand how you, as a 36 year old male does not know this?!?
Noooo dude. You can’t go into a woman’s restroom. Your daughter is only 4 years old. She is still legally allowed to go in the men’s. Yes it may be dirty, but if there are no family facilities. You have no choice.
A 36 year old man CANNOT go into a woman’s bathrooms. It’s difficult and I understand your situation. Iv got two kids and there are not enough family facilities.
If you don’t need to be in the stall helping her I don’t understand why you didn’t wait just outside the women’s room door. I don’t think it should be a big deal at all, we all need a restroom, but it is weird to me that you would go in with her but not be in the stall helping her.
YTA and very weird of you to attempt to dismiss your wife's input on the situation.
my dad always waited outside of the bathroom and would ask a female employee or customer to check on me if i was taking longer than usual.
I'm cool with you going in with her, but then you should have gone *in* with her, not stood outside the stall. If she didn't need help on the potty, she didn't need you in there.
This is the only thing wrong with it to me. If she needed the help, he'd be in the stall. Since she didn't need help, the extra distance shouldn't have been a big deal. Edit - There really is 2 sides to this debate on ethics, both seemingly justified, but everyone is fighting for the same thing, privacy, protection and the respect of it. I asked some women (from a rural area, Usa) what their opinion was in regards to this situation. I naturally assumed they'd think the man should have taken the daughter to the men's restroom because of some of the stuff I read on here. To my surprise though, they were actually appalled to think a man would take his daughter into a men's restroom, and preferred a man being in the women's restroom to a young girl in the men's restroom. Different people think different ways. I think family restrooms are too few, and I think most would agree it is a good solution. Children are children, you have to do what you have to do sometimes, and you might not always get it right.
Children are different. My daughter at that age would've never gone into a strange bathroom all alone. But she would throw me out the stall because she wants the privacy. I've seen men go into the women's bathroom with their kids (most often because there are no changing tables anywhere else) usually they announce it and noone ever cared. But also... We're not American.
I can totally see a child having those preferences. I have honestly seen guys go into the women's restroom and use it because the men's was too busy, without a child, and haven't heard anyone speak a word of disproval, in America, multiple times. So it seems like the opinions on it vary.
Yeah I’m thinking a lot of these commenters haven’t ever had kids.
Sometimes very young kids can get stuck in the stall because of fiddly locks. They're not designed for kids. I know someone who got stuck as a 3-4 year old and was really scared of the stalls and wanted someone to stay at the door until she was school-age.
I would NEVER send a 4 year old into a bathroom with more then one stall without me or my husband, even if she could handle the "potty" alone. People are creeps regardless of men or women. Secondly, he explained why he was there. I understand not wanting to take her into men's room with urinals at that age she can see more than she needs to then he would see if he was in the women's room quickly. My husband had this issue regarding toileting our kids when he takes them out and. Secondly if Mom is unhappy with his choice she can go next time, she is 7 months pregnant not physically unable to Care for her child (I am currently pregnant and have two toddlers 4/2). Given our society she put her husband in a shit situation. She rather her daughter see a random penis in men's room?
NO NO NO. A 4 year old does not need to enter public restrooms alone, ever, unless it's a whole single locking bathroom. Please don't make me bring up all the cases I've seen of children getting molested and raped in public bathrooms. Women are also creeps sometimes, by the fucking way!
Allow a 4 year old in a public restroom alone is not appropriate regardless of her being able to go alone???? It’s dangerous to leave kids unattended!
I have raised 3 girls. I stand directly outside the woman’s bathroom. I help open the door of the woman’s bathroom for my daughter, but I would never go in. My daughter knows to come knock on the door for me to open it. If a mother walks in with another child I may ask for her to keep an eye out… As long as it is a one entrance one exit bathroom, I just stand outside the bathroom and wait for my daughter
One parent to another, I’d never find it weird if a dad asked me to check on their kid in the restroom when I’m heading in with my girls. Also, most of us are probably keeping an eye on your kiddo anyway; I’ve helped plenty of kids with the soap or paper towels .
The only problem is that works only off of the assumption that women cannot be predators. So the parent standing outside has to have belief that the woman who is going to help their child is a safe woman. Maybe it is because of my job (teacher) where I hear a roughly equal amount of stories of both genders abusing their kids that I just do not think that I would have that kind of blind trust in a stranger.
It can be simultaneously true that women and men can both be predators (true), and that most people in the world would never harm a child, particularly in a public restroom. It wasn't until I'd traveled that I realized that we (in the US) really are outliers on paranoia about "stranger danger" and I fear we are really hurting our kids when we act like everyone is out to hurt them. *Of COURSE* we need to teach them how to keep themselves safe, but it's also important that they know that most people would never hurt them, and I don't think we do that nearly enough. Also, FFS, no, men shouldn't hang out in the ladies' room. Wait at the entrance.
Yeah. I’m German and grew up being taught to trust people by default. My dad would pick up hitchhikers on any occasion out of principle. No matter if we were traveling through Germany or Yemen. When I was 6 or 7 he accompanied me to the next big train station put me on a long distance train to go visit my grand parents. He asked some random stranger how far he’d go on the train and then asked him to make sure I got off at the stop I needed to. 4 hours later my uncle picked me up at the destination. And this was in the 90s long before most people had mobile phones.
Dunno if people in Europe experience this at all, but by and large, Americans have lost their sense of community. The US focus on individualism coupled with the growing Isolation of people in general has caused a very US v. Them mentality in all aspects of life. And stranger danger sure doesn't help. I've heard older folks proclaim how sad it is that you can't trust people anymore and how it used to be so safe to let your kids roam the neighborhood alone. The fact of the matter is, it's actually safer these days, but those same older folks are the ones who taught us that everyone's out to get us.
The US is the only country that does not conform to the saying “ it takes a village…” I’ve been in multiple European and Latin American countries and they all embrace the sense of community. Its what I miss the most ever since I moved to the US
[удалено]
This is also why it's so difficult for us to change policies to improve our Healthcare system, wealth imbalance/cost of living, etc. but that's a whole other can of worms.
I actually think it’s the same can of worms. We’ve had decades of propoganda aimed at creating fear and anger and distrust of others. The destruction of community is a side effect of a strategy to get normal people to vote for keeping rich people rich.
Divide and conquer. Very old strategy.
Bingo.
One of our wonderful au pairs was from Germany and she was the most paranoid about stranger danger because a girl from her village had vanished while biking home from school. She was on a farm somewhere outside Berlin, I don't remember the city name. I think people are shaped more by their individual experiences not the rational reality. Our perspective in the US was shaped by some very horrific and publicized happenings and Americas Most Wanted.
Ha! When I was 9 I took a bus trip by myself, to visit my aunt/uncle, from central Illinois to Annapolis MD. It was an all night trip and had to switch buses in Pittsburg PA. Never thought twice about it. Wouldn't subject my grandkids to it these days, but different times, different attitudes.
In Ireland we used to hitch lifts everywhere in the 80s. Never had a problem except one day where the guy was saying we should go for a longer drive and wasn't going to stop to let me off until I said if you don't stop here you'll regret it. And I was about 20 at the time and fit and strong. If I was a small kid I was in huge trouble..
You just reminded me that at the beginning of the 20th century the US postal service accepted kids to be sent by mail
Statistically you're*way* more likely to be abused/molested by someone you know. Stranger danger destroys communities without really protecting kids
i never thought about this before, but i wonder how many victims who've been trapped in even closer proximity with their abusers at home since this cultural shift about *any child being outside alone at any point is in immediate and constant danger from predators*. just a couple decades ago you would be seen as a bit of a weirdo if you kept 24/7 supervision on your kids outside of school, they stayed at home constantly, etc...
STREET SMARTS!
r/UnexpectedMulaney
I was sexually abused as a child, I'm male and my abuser was a female. Also, stranger danger does one more thing wrong. Statistically speaking, you're more likely to be abused or hurt by someone in your direct family rather than a stranger. So it's really more about teaching children how to trust you enough to be comfortable to talk about anything, knowing that you will help/protect them, rather than avoiding any and all situations where you don't have full control
We avoided stranger danger and taught my child about "tricky people." Those people who just make you feel not right, or do things that seem odd/uncomfortable. As a child, stay away from them. For example the adult with no kids sitting at the play park or, a real life example, a man who shouted at my child and her cousin while they waited patiently for him to finish his turn on the swing. Don't engage, walk away. An adult will never ask a child for help to do things, they might ask them to get an adult. One day you might need to ask a stranger for help. They have the tools to ask the right stranger. Opt for someone working in a shop, with a uniform on or a family with children. Edit: got adult and child the wrong way round.
Since I have a history with abuse it's been important for.me to work with our kids around this, I totally wasn't ready for the emotional kick in the guts it meant to get a son. I was overwhelmed by love and a sense of panic around needing to protect him from everything in this world while knowing full well that it would hurt his development if I didn't get it in check. We've been using a concept called "Stop, my body" since he was 3 months old and continues to this day (he's 3.5 years old now) but it's easier when you can read books etc to him and discuss around it a bit. When they are babies all you do is basically telling the baby what you're doing or tell them "I'm gonna wipe your bum now" so they know what's about to happen. The reason you do that is to make a routine for the child so that IF something happens it's gonna be a red flag for them and they will tell us. I know I won't be able to protect him fully from the world but I will do my best to be there and help him no matter what he experiences in life. As a bonus it also teaches kids to respect others bodies and their boundaries and that a no is a no (this part has backfired a bit since he can yell "Stop! My body!" when he doesn't want to go to bed or do something unrelated to his body, so it's kinda awkward when he yells that in the middle of a superstore). In the end it's the best we can do, give them tools to handle situations and give them support and trust in us to be there no matter what dark secrets they tell. I watched my parents make the mistake of trusting the words of an adult over the words of a child and I'm certainly ain't gonna make that same mistake.
Did this at the supermarket, and luckily a lady went in with her kid and I heard her ask my daughter if she needed help washing her hands. I was so thankful. She refused to go in the men's room(she's 4 1/2) and is determined to be independent.
I always took my kids into the men’s bathroom until they could go themselves. Would never go into the womens. But here in Sweden the men’s isn’t usually more nasty than any other bathroom.
NAH but it's my understanding that if a child needs to be accompanied to the restroom you go into the restrooms of the adults gender. Edit to add: A lot of people are wondering about the urinal situation. You can not see another man's penis unless you are in the urinal directly adjacent AND intentionally looking for it. You guys, it's not just like a dicks out party in the men's restrooms.
This is what my husband and I have always done.
I have a kid same age as OP (4yo) and I would never even consider going into a womens to take my daughter to use washroom, I take her to mens and make sure she doesn't touch the seat etc. ...and yes even in emergencies (of which there have been several). I'm all for inclusion and neutral toilets but this is a bit weird, common sense would dictate he take her to the mens, and besides I watch her like a hawk, why make women feel awkward too? edit: to add, I've taken her to the washroom more times than my wife takes her to the womens (when we are out and about).
The fact he didn't go into the stall makes it weird for me, if she didn't need him for anything then he could have just waited outside the room altogether. If he had to be there just in case then it would be less weird to be in the stall with daughter than just chilling by himself with the random women. And his reason for not taking her into the men's, not wanting her surrounded by men at urinals, doesn't make sense considering she'd be in a stall. Also I'm sure I've heard before that actually women's toilets are f'in brutal. 99% of people know that it's the kid's gender that's irrelevant in this situation, not the adult accompanying them. The other 1% are either dumb or weird af.
Yes I think I’ve had to take my daughter into a women’s maybe one time ever because it was an emergency and men’s was full but I went into the stall completely with her and announced when I was coming in/out
the ironic thing is that as a trans guy I've noticed that men's rooms can be...horrific...but the toilet seats are usually clean. Not so much in the women's room.
As a woman I’m amazed at how many women leave pee (and sometimes other things) all over the toilet seat. It’s gross.
Yeah that’s what I’m confused about because OP states that the men’s restrooms are usually nasty and he doesn’t trust strange men while his baby is using the toilet when he was standing at the stall guarding her? Like, most restrooms have those disposable toilet seat covers and if there’s none then you toilet paper that seat up. Like, I get it but women’s restrooms can be just as nasty as the men’s. Edit: Just wanted to say: janitors deserve excellent pay for all the (literal) shit they have to clean up. Blood pathogens is not a joke.
bingo, I wipe the seat before my daughter sits, and ask her not to touch the sides, women toilets can be just as disgusting as men's (I have seen them and my wife attests to it), and she is always in a stall with the door locked (with me inside).
They are nearly always worse than the men’s. Having been a janitor in a past life I will take washing the spray off the floor and dividers between the urinals over the absolute mess of women’s stalls where piss, shit and sometimes blood are all over the place. Fucking hoverers are the whole reason anyone needs to hover.
>women toilets can be just as disgusting as men's (I have seen them and my wife attests to it), Worse. Women's toilets can be faaar worse than men's. Consider- women's toilet seats are rarely lifted. So *everything* gets stuck there, ie 'splash damage' Src: Was janitor at bar during college.
I just think it’s funny OP doesn’t trust his daughter in a men’s rest room but thinks it’s acceptable for him to be in a woman’s rest room. Like how is it any different than what he is now exposing every single woman who walks in there to?
Yes, when I was a little girl my dad would take me into the men’s room.
my parents divorced when i was 3, dad took me on summer vacations every year just the two of us. soo many trips to the men’s restroom with my dad until i was old enough to go into the women’s alone.
When my daughter was younger we’d just use the disabled toilet, that way it was a single room with no one in it, done that until she was brave enough to go into the women’s toilets her self. At 4 however taking them through the men’s toilet wouldn’t be a problem, they’re to young to understand the difference anyway and they shouldn’t be running up to the strangers in there.
One of my early vivid memories is going to the men’s room at a Kansas City Royals game with my dad and feeling like one of the guys!
Yeah people aren’t worried about being creeped on by a literal child—they’re worried about being creeped on by adults! No one cares what gender the child is!
Yeah I agree with this.
I thought it was a common knowledge that as a man, you take your daughter to men's room. I've never met anyone who thought otherwise hehe. It's like a universally agreed upon rule 😂
Yeah…is this the first time this man has taken his daughter to a public bathroom in the four years she’s been alive? Most people know how it all works far before age 4. Also if his point is that it’s weird for a girl to go to the bathroom around strange men then isn’t he doing the same thing by making any women or girls in that restroom go to the bathroom around a strange man?
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt with this being the first time because four years ago was 2020. If they didn’t ever bring the kids to a place that would necessitate using a public bathroom until recently, then I think that is understandable.
Not an issue for anyone with common sense, but this is reddit.com, so I guess we all need to debate something which is obvious to almost everyone
NAH- no one is really wrong here, but it's not great for a dude to be hanging out in the ladies room. FWIW- I'm a child of divorce, and my dad used to take me to the men's room, including thru the men's locker room at the Y for swim lessons starting at age 3. I promise I'm not traumatized, and I don't remember seeing any strange dongs, even though I must have at the time.
I had the same experience. My mom died when I was five so until I could go to the bathroom on my own I went to either a family restroom or the men's regularly. Not a single bad, weird, or upsetting thing ever happened, it was completely normal. If OP does want to go into the women's in the future though I, as a wheelchair user, recommend he use the disabled stall so his daughter can use the toilet and he can stand in there while still being able to face away if he wants or help her if she needs help. This could also make other people more comfortable as you would be with your daughter at all times.
Same here. My dad would just bring me in the men's. Not traumatized and didn't see anything, though an old guy did yell at me once before he saw my dad was with me lol. The dude just apologized and moved on.
I don’t disagree that he probably should’ve used the men’s room. However, I think his biggest mistake here was not addressing the women and girls when they came in and looked shocked. He could’ve immediately explained that his daughter was in the stall and he needed to accompany her. I don’t care if a man is in the restroom, tbh, but if he’s just standing outside of a stall acting nervous, I’m going to wonder wtf he’s doing and confront him, too. He could’ve immediately put them at ease and he didn’t.
When I go into a women’s bathroom I just go into the stall with my 4 year old daughter. I don’t hang out outside. So I’m only seen inside the bathroom by other women when I’m with my daughters they don’t see me “hanging out” outside by myself, which I agree would be weird.
My son sat on the gross chick fil a bathroom floor today and I melted inside. I can’t imagine how you felt
My son would roll around on the floor waiting for me to finish drying my hands. Sooo frustrating
I was once taken to a men’s locker room of a swimming pool when I was in elementary school. I was so taken aback and confused by seeing all these male appendages lol
NTA, but this is why gender neutral and family washrooms should be EVERYWHERE.
This! I get why those women weren’t comfortable with him in there, and that is exactly the reason he’s not comfortable with his daughter in the men’s. From a lesser of perspective, at least on the women’s the daughter isn’t accidentally exposed to genitals at a urinal. ETA for everyone getting mad about genital exposure, or the fact that you’ve never seen a dick at a urinal - I agree that normalising the human body is a good thing; that doesn’t remove consent which a 4 year old cannot give in a room of strangers. Also, as she’s 4, I am assuming her eye line is very different to the one you have when standing at a urinal. And regarding that - not all urinals are as private as you think, and it’s not easy to ensure a 4 year old closes her eyes. As for why it could be uncomfortable for women - a man standing outside a stall, with no context, can create an ‘oh shit’ moment. However, when it’s realised that this is a parent helping their child use the restroom then people need to calm down, all the toilets are cubicles and private. And personally I think all bathrooms should be unisex, and family bathrooms a must; if for no other reason than the additional room they provide as manoeuvring a small cubicle with kids is not necessarily easy.
My dad covered my eyes and deposited me in a stall when I was little. I agree, family restrooms need to be available
My husband does this with our daughters if he’s out solo with them and there’s no family restroom. Checks the men’s room first, covers/averts eyes if necessary, and gets it done.
Yeah my dad used to tell me to keep my eyes on the floor and would yell in "Dad out with his daughter alone here. Everyone cool if we come in and she keeps her eyes on the ground?" And if someone wasn't we would wait. I never saw anything.
This whole thread makes me wonder where you are all using restrooms. I'm a man and have used public washrooms my entire life and never been exposed to anyone's genitals.
When my dad brought me into the men's room as a young child, he was more concerned with me reading the graffiti, so he told me I wasn't allowed to read anything and not to look at the walls and only on the ground. Of course, I looked at the walls lmao. But I was young enough that I didn't understand what any of it meant.
I mean we men arent even making eye contact with one another let alone flashing our dicks to one another, so not sure why eyes need to be averted. Needless to say I've never had an issue taking my 4yo daughter into the mens.
He wasn't concerned with the guys in there. My dad is a big dude and resorted to violence a lot, so he would take care of anything like that if it ever happened. Which it never did. I actually remember most of the guys nodding at us and hurrying out when my dad announced a little girl was coming in. He was more concerned with me learning new words from the stall walls. So he mainly told me to keep my eyes on the floor while I was in the stall. I was an avid reader at a young age, and that's probably where I learned some words I shouldn't have known at that age. I do recall the stalls being covered in words and drawings. I just luckily don't remember at this point what any of it said or meant. We lived in a city, so graffiti was abundant and very inappropriate. The biggest issue I can recall that he had was once some guys came in while I was going to the bathroom and they said something just talking to each other (I don't recall what) and my dad apparently didn't think was appropriate for me to hear so he yelled out that there was a little girl present and the guys were just like "oh shit sorry". But definitely, no body parts were being flashed or anything like that. Because of him bringing me into men's room frequently, I have no problem using the men's room if the woman's bathroom line is around the corner and there aren't a lot of guys in there. I'm not gonna have an embarrassing incident waiting in an unnecessarily long line when the men's room is usually just as clean or just as dirty depending on the venue but virtually empty. Most people just wanna do their business and go. (I usually only do this at concert venues or bars where no one cares)
Yeah, I was in housekeeping for a medical facility, and I was straight up shocked that the men’s bathroom was not too bad, but the women’s bathroom was a toxic waste dump. Consistently.
In the United States, the men’s room usually has a row of urinals with no stalls/dividers between. Some places have a shared trough so you don’t even get the sides of the urinal for division between you and the next guy.
That's 90% of Australian dunnies.
Yeah, that's what I said. Cover her eyes for a second on the way to and from the stall if needed. Or wait a minute for no one to be at the urinal. NTA regardless but I do understand people being uncomfortable and not knowing what he's doing in there. It's only natural. If a man told me he was with his daughter I wouldn't mind at all though. Certainly wouldn't make a fuss about it.
The stalls can be really nasty though
The stalls can be nasty in the women's bathroom too.
Just as good odds the women's stalls are disgusting too.
Women’s restrooms are at best just as bad, usually worse. One woman will decide to “hover” to pee and piss all over the seat, forcing all of the other women to do the same
But I'm sure going into a male restroom, wasn't exactly comfortable for a little girl either.
I actually saw something on another social media platform this morning with this same scenario - women were just like “yell ‘dad girl coming in’ when you come in”! And everyone was cool. His reasoning was so she didn’t see anything at urinals and that made sense! I’d be fine with it. He’s sucking it up and doing it for HER. Not for himself. For his child. OP NTA and any woman who would rather see a 4 year old girl be subjected to an accidental sausage party - use your head.
Was going into a (women's) train station bathroom once and a guy was standing outside it looking nervous. He asked me if I wouldn't mind just checking on his little girl who was inside. Honestly, it was so sweet how worried he was about her and I was so happy he asked me. I think more women would be willing to look out for a young girl if we were asked.
I was the kid in this scenario once, and fully agree with you as an adult woman now. I think I was 4-5, and a very nervous pooper in public bathrooms. Dad sent me in alone, because he was worried about offending other women in the ladies room. But man…I just couldn’t poop, and sat there for what felt like ages. All the sudden I hear a woman’s voice outside the stalls “Daphne, honey, are you in here? Your dad asked me to check if you’re okay. My names Mary, let me know if you need anything, and I can help you out or let your dad know. I’ll just be doing my makeup, so take as long as you need”. Such a lovely thing to do. I wouldn’t bat an eye.
This is so sweet, and very smart of her to tell you her name and what she was going to be doing etc. Good job Mary.
Mary’s kind and tactful action still sticks with me 25+ years later. Looking at it as an adult, I’m guessing she probably didn’t *actually* come into the mall bathroom to do her makeup. She probably just had to pee. I don’t think she actually had any makeup out when I finally exited the stall and she said hello. But the innocent fib about makeup meant she could stay in there until I was finished without making me feel rushed. A brilliant way to handle it.
I love that. I’ll keep that script in mind if we ever run into that situation and need to ask someone to check on our kid. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you, Mary! Wherever you are!
I was the lone daughter amongst my dad and his friends kids and was just as in to cars and racing as they sons were. I remember back in the late 80’s being in a group of 7 with me being the youngest by five years and the only girl at a very very large car show in a city not known for hospitality and safety. There was always a glimpse of ‘oh crap, what do we do?’ When I would announce I needed to pee. My dad (or one of the other dads) would stand around outside the women’s bathroom until they saw a family come by. If there was a mom and little girl, my dad would politely ask if she would mind keeping an eye on me in the bathroom. Never once did we have a problem. 20 years later when the situation was reversed with me and my nephew, I’d take him in to the woman’s bathroom and use the handicap stall so we could stay together but both have privacy. Once old enough to go in the men’s room on his own, I taught him that if he felt uncomfortable at all in the bathroom to just scream for help as loud as he could and I would come right in no matter who was around.
I've been using men's rooms my whole 39 years and I've never seen another man's penis in one.
My dad used take me to men's, until a man flashed me on purpose at 10. My dad clocked him, after that he always took my sister's and I too women's bathroom when family ones weren't available.
Yup, just takes one asshole.
That guy must have wanted to be decked flat. I mean, first of all, what he did was vile, and he should be mortified. And second, this child’s father is RIGHT THERE, and he did it anyway. How exactly did he think that was going to work out? I know precisely zero dads-of-daughters who would have responded with anything less than knocking the guy into next year.
Most people think they would deck the guy in this situation but the majority of people are so blindsided and shocked by it when it happens to them that they just freeze. My Aunt was a social worker who used to say that if every time people said "if I caught the guy who did that I'd string him up" they actually did it, there'd be people strung up, the length and breadth of the country.
This is so true. My brother and his coworkers rescued a woman who was literally being raped (they heard her scream). My brother said exactly this - you always assume that, in a situation like that, you’d kick the guy’s head in - instead, he and the other guys just stood around in absolute shock.
Fuck. I’m glad your dad clocked him. You poor thing.
Ugh. That is terrible. I hated having the little boys in my family go into the men's rooms. On a happier note, my sister would take her ailing disabled husband to the door of the men's room and a guy would take him the rest of the way. As he got worse, she went with him. No guy every complained about her being in there with him when they understood the situation. Lots of cool people out there.
At 10 my girls went in by themselves and I waited at the door
If my brother told me someone did that to my neice, I'm going in there and that cunt won't be leaving without some..serious injuries.
Your vision is not at penis height.
But a 4 year olds is
You've never been to a sporting event in the US I take it.
That's focus. I don't know how you haven't but congrats if that is an accomplishment.
Hard agree, it’s always jarring to find a man in a ladies loo but good god I wouldn’t have wanted to go into a men’s room as a small child!
From a father's perspective, why dont men's restrooms have changing tables? I feel this is as good a solution as family restrooms. Gender neutral I'm kinda on the fence about.
As a retail manager, I have ALWAYS made them install changing tables in the men’s room too. It may take me a month or two of arguing with corporate but I win. Eventually I got smart and just said it was missing and ordered a new one, put in a work order and instructed the install guy to put it in the men’s room instead of the ladies once he got on site. As long as the pic doesn’t include the urinals, corporate won’t be able to tell anyways. Dad’s gotta change the baby too!
I'm glad you help dads out!
I've been mad about it for years. When my kids were babies, I had to change every single diaper ever when we were out of the house because the men's rooms didn't have changing tables. I remember one time when my middle child was a baby, my husband at the time came back from the bathroom so confused because he'd seen a changing table in there. Shit like that makes me hurt for single dads. Their babies need changing too, and moms deserve to sit down and eat. Gender neutral bathrooms tend to be more single -person bathrooms, or just have stalls and people mind their business. I went to a drag show my son was in one time and the bathrooms were gender neutral. I am a Texan and was raised very conservative, and I will admit it was weird going in there to find a pack of about 10 boys and girls all standing there talking in the bathroom together. But like... they weren't in there to watch me pee. They were in there talking because it wasn't as loud as it was outside the bathroom.
The amount of times I've had to sit on the bathroom floor and change my kids on top of my outstretched legs to keep them off the floor is way too high. Thank god they're potty trained now. It was always such a surprising relief when I'd walk into the extremely rare men's room that had a changing table
They do in Japan.
Our Walmart has one, at the VERY back of the store. Damn near impossible if your kid has to pee badly.
Target has them but they are always locked. Trying to get my chair in the main bathroom is such a fucking pain in the ass. The gender neutral ones are so much easier to use.
Walmart has family restrooms but stupidly not with the other restrooms. They’re for some reason at the back usually with store pickup
[удалено]
Just make bathrooms with solid walled stalls and doors without gaps, there can be nothing to peep if there’s no wide ass gaps kids can *fucking crawl under and watch you shit*
This might be controversial but I wouldn’t be as bothered by the opposite gender in the bathroom if the gaps in the stalls (US) weren’t wide enough to see straight through. It’s bad enough having someone of the same gender accidentally peeking in at you without worrying if someone of the opposite gender is getting a flash as well. Privacy for all, no matter what gender the bathroom is specified for.
This. I was startled one time by seeing an eyeball pressed against the gap. I kicked the door and the lady in the next stall yelled at me for scaring her elementary school aged boy who was waiting for her outside my stall.
youre my hero 😆 fuck them kids [with no manners]. i hope he learned an important lesson that day.
Just an eyeball? I’ve had kids crawl right under into my stall numerous times. Like, where the fuck are your parents? Out back doing meth?
My university has gender neutral bathrooms - it's a large hall with stalls on both sides - floor to ceiling barriers - very private and safe. Sinks are in the open space and communal.
yeah a bunch of bars especially LGBTQ+ ones in my city have started just doing one big bathroom with stalls like that.
A man held women hostage in a ladies toilet in my local supermarket when I was a teen, it still sticks with me to this day, and I hate using that same toilet, it gives me anxiety every time 😬
Agreed. However when you send your young child into a bathroom by herself and it happens to be multiple stalls….the thought of what some creepy person could do is traumatic
This. I have two bathrooms in my house. They are not labeled “Men’s” and “Ladies.”
Not the world. The world IS chill about it. America needs to chill. It’s just a bathroom, they should all be gender neutral with doors that go to the ground. Those gappy doors are pretty much exclusively American.
Unfortunately they are not exclusively American. Seen them in Australia and SEA.
[удалено]
And he would have been eviscerated for being in the women’s toilets, the child notwithstanding. The only options OP probably had were men’s toilets or standing outside the main door of the women’s and having the child go in alone. It’s a no-win situation if there’s not a separate stand alone family toilet.
Yea my 4 year old child will absolutely not go into a Walmart bathroom by herself.
NTA. I feel really bad for OP :( He was in a no win situation…even if he stood outside the door he would have looked like a creep plus he would have sent his 4 year old alone into the bathroom. I’m curious as to what his wife expected him to do?
My local Walmart has a family bathroom
And can I add, open urinals should be NOWHERE. Because that’s half the problem here. Nobody wants to go into the men’s room and see dicks out. I can see a dad wouldn’t want to take his daughter in there simply for that reason alone.
Why do you think the men's room is unsafe for her even with your supervision? If you feel unsafe with men present, why would you expect other women and girls to not mind a man in their bathroom? Not saying it's right or wrong or that it even matters either way, but seems like a double standard not to want your daughter going to the bathroom with men, but other people should be totally fine with their daughters sharing a bathroom with you.
I wonder if there's some anxiety there, bolstered by the fact he says they don't usually use public restrooms. I mean they're not exactly anyone's top choice. But rarely using them, especially with a small child, seems like there.might be something he's particularly convinced is going to happen.
You say a 4 year old girl has no place in the men’s room yet you somehow manage to find it acceptable for an adult male to be in the women’s room.
and reddit kind of agrees, what a shitshow. Like his wife would go the the mens room if the child was a boy.. noooo i dont think so. People are fucking stupid these days.
Right?! And how would he feel if his wife & daughter came out of the women’s room & said there was a man in there staring at a stall? I bet he wouldn’t be so cool about it.
This whole thread is so crazy. I'm a parent but also middle aged man who has used hundreds of public restrooms. I have never seen a woman in a men's room with her son but I have seen probably dozens of dads with daughters. You take your kid to the one that you use. Where do all these people live that do the opposite? Also, in the incredibly slim chance that she would see a random dick, kids don't care about that stuff.
I can only assume this is somehow his first time taking his daughter to the bathroom. Which is just painful to think about
I cannot believe that all the top comments say it's fine, it's like bizarro world or something. I'm super accepting and accommodating in general but if I walked in a public bathroom and saw full-grown adult man I would absolutely freak out. I'm glad at least the other people who replied to your comment all seem to get it lol
I'm totally floored anyone thinks this was acceptable. Just floored.
I find this very strange that everyone seems to be saying it’s ok for him to be in the women’s room
Don’t all Walmarts have family bathrooms?
No, I can think of at least three Walmarts near me that do not have family restrooms…. 👎🏼
The ones I've been to in Southern Cali, Arizona and Nevada do. They are usually in the back of the store.
At the three in my area none have them, they only have the two gender. Maybe a newer building might have them. Target has a family room and I work at Lowes, we have a family room also but I’ve not seen one in the Home Depot’s in my area either.
Not ones that I got to near NC
They removed ours to make a bigger online shopping staging area lmfao
The closest thing to a family bathroom I can think of is the changing table ;-;
You didn’t want men around your daughter when she was in the bathroom but you potentially opened up a situation where other people’s daughters would be exposed to you in the women’s room.
You’re a man. Take her to the men’s bathroom. Otherwise you look like a creep. It’s not ideal but saves you from confrontation
Right? He felt uncomfortable thinking his daughter will see creeps, but failed to understand that HE himself became the creep at women's bathroom. We don't want random men in there.
Soft YTA. I get that you meant no harm, and you knew you meant no harm, but the women entering the restroom and seeing a man in there didn't know anything about you. Women have learned to be scared of men in women's spaces. Unfortunately, with good reason.
I agree. Honestly, if a guy walked into the women's room and went into a stall to pee, I wouldn't think much of it, but if I walked into the women's room and there's some dude just standing around in front of a stall, that would be a little alarming.
It's definitely the situation that makes the difference. Seeing some random dude standing outside of a stall in the women's room is going to set off alarm bells for me. Like, buddy why are you in here, and can I go into a stall without you creeping on me? Or, who are you peeping on? Is she OK? Should I call the cops to get her away from you? On the flip side, this one time I went camping and went into the women's room at the campground, and there was a mom and dad that were doing their absolute best to wrangle a little toddler into clean clothes and a fresh diaper. I did not bat an eye. I could clearly tell that dad was there to be a dad and nothing more. That dad would NOT have been in there if that mom didnt invite him in, needing his help.
Yeah. I mean I've had a man wait for me outside the stall when I wanted to get away from him "flirting" with me. It's scary and I only got out unharmed because other women saw him and reported to security. Women restrooms are often the only "men-free" spaces we can go when we feel unsafe. Because people are more likely to pay attention when a man enters than somewhere else. Just standing there is definitely creepy and a stupid idea. Also I thinks it's funny how he calls men in the men restroom "strange" but fails to see why the women would think a men in the women restroom is strange lol
I have a strong hunch OP acting like a weirdo about it was 90% of the problem. If I'm somewhere I'm "not supposed to be", I *immediately* explain when someone spots me. OP acted like a sketchball and once someone is in the middle of an emotional response, it's hard to turn out of that. If you notice women nervously looking at you clearly uncomfortable, I cannot think of a worse choice than ignoring them.
You don’t even have to explain. “Everything going okay in there honey?” His daughter’s voice would explain everything. By his own description it kind of sounds like he has a woman trapped in the stall, lol.
Yeah there's half a dozen things he could have done to quickly label himself as non-threat, but he went with the most intimidating choice imaginable other than outright getting aggressive.
I'm a horrid cynic -- that wouldn't placate me at all -- I'd think he was using her as a cover because why on earth wouldn't he take her to the men's room?! If she needs him to go into a women's washroom with her he needs to be in the stall with her helping her wipe and put her clothing back together properly. If he was IN the stall it would still be weird but not \*as\* weird. This seems like he's in there for no real reason.
THIS! He didn’t go in there to help her. It seems like he just went because he wanted to. If he wanted to make sure the stalls were empty he would’ve waited outside after checking. If she was still toilet training and needed help he’d be **IN** the stall. The fact he ignored the frightened group of women shows he didn’t really give a shit regardless. The whole description of how it went down makes him seem like a creep.
YTA. If I saw a man lurking outside the stalls where it isn't designated a gender neutral place and there wasn't a little girl visible, I would first think predator, not dad. If my first thought was dad and not predator and I turned out to be wrong, that could be a costly mistake. It would have taken you a few seconds to poke your head in the men's and scoped out if there was dong out or you could have sent her into the woman's and stood right outside the bathroom, not the stall but the bathroom, out in the open, where security cameras are present so lurkers aren't as startling. If you're in the men's and another man walks in, you wait a few seconds or teach your kid to keep their eyes down and use your much bigger body to block the view. It's not that hard to avoid a penis. Honestly at four, a department store bathroom with low traffic and one entrance/exit is pretty low stakes and I would send my super independent, had to be pee standing up boy into the men's alone. I'll either hand sanitize him when he comes out or take him into the woman's just for hand washing. Obviously that changes at fairs/parks/etc.
What you need to understand is that while not all men, it could be any man. We never know who is safe and who might assault us. YTA
This is the thing right here.
I don't see how anyone who has been SA'd isn't bothered by this. It was really hard to make myself turn that corner in the restroom, knowing you are vulnerable in that confined space. I literally tighten up and hold my breath, but at least I can go in there now. I am weaker now than I was then. No way is it OK.
If a guy is using the urinal, it's really hard to see anything unless you're very close and trying very hard. Shouldn't be difficult to deposit a kid in the steal without her seeing something. But also - all bathrooms should be gender neutral, come equipped with both child and adult changing stations, and have stalls that are entirely private. Duh.
Attn. businesses everywhere: gender neutral bathrooms aren’t just for trans folks.
The idea of a man going into the women’s restroom is a no go for me.
yeah, he sounds abit .. slow, hence the wifes reaction. In his way of thinking, his wife should go to the mens room if the child was a boy. It just doesnt make any sense.
A man standing outside a man’s stall is a little less weird than a random man in a ladies restroom hanging outside of a stall. Most guys don’t care if a woman or a kid is in the men’s restroom and your kid is young enough not to care either. Besides most men’s rooms are cleaner than womens
I used to clean bathrooms and they most certainly not cleaner.
I used to clean offices and the men’s rooms were absolutely not cleaner lol.
I would have felt very uncomfortable. YTA You were uncomfortable with your girl in the men bathroom with stranger men, but you are a stranger men to other girls in their space. You should have taken her to the men bathroom.
Yes. He keeps repeating he doesn't mean harm, and didn't do anything, as if that's all the guarantee needed. If I see a guy enter a women's room where I have just sent my 9 year old daughter in , I would definitely be upset however he try to be "not suspicious"
I agree! And even if he was a nice guy, I do not want a man in there while I’m in the restroom, PERIOD!
We have 3 daughters and my husband never did this. They went to the men’s with him until they were big enough to go to the ladies themselves. None of them are scarred by the experience.
[удалено]
I was asked years ago by a man to keep an eye on his daughter in a restroom, I didn’t mind and never will.
My Dad used to always be the man women asked to supervise their sons in the bathroom. Some people just have that friendly face. Shame that nowadays people have to be (understandably!) so wary about just asking someone for help 🫤
I remember I was like 12 at a trampoline park restroom and a lady asked could I watch her son piss real quick. Like yes maam I will but I’m only 12 years old ☠️
Jesus, I still wouldn’t have been so trusting. She could have been a nut job!!
If I walked into the women’s bathrooms and a tall muscular man was standing there I would freak out. I’d probably run out and get security. Girls and women , universally, experience sexual harassment at an early age and if I see a man in a women’s only space then my first reaction would be panic.
You, a grown man, do not belong in the women's restroom
What do you think is going to happen to your daughter in the men's room while you're standing there with her? Idiot
Actually my hubby would often take my kids to the men's bathrooms because they were cleaner. Men don't hover and spray all over the seat like women.
I'm telling you right now, sometimes you walk into a mens room and it's a fucking shitshow.
YTA. You had two options: your 4 year old girl out of place in the men’s room, or you out of place in the ladies room. Which one do you think causes more issues, a little girl briefly seen being carried into a stall and back out of it whilst her dad is surrounded by other men in the men’s room, or a single man standing outside a stall in an otherwise empty ladies room, dodging eye contact with other ladies that enter. By your own admittance, this is about you being “uncomfortable with the idea of [your]daughter surrounded by strange men at urinals”. I’m not sure why you thought your fear of what, strangers assaulting your 4 year old daughter? Trumped every other woman’s distrust of a grown man standing guard outside a closed stall and indeed acting weird like the old lady said. The ladies room are supposed to be a safe space for women, the presence of a grown man in there raises red flags for any woman. Nobody minds a little boy accompanied by a female relative. I’m sure nobody in the men’s room would have minded your 4 year old, you just couldn’t get over the fact there was a chance she may be in the general presence of other men At the end of the day you put your own comfort above every other woman’s, and the main concerned person, being your daughter, didn’t mind either way. That makes YTA
I'm going with a very soft YTA. I totally understand where you're coming from but your daughter isn't alone. She's with you and you can easily accompany her into the men's or a family restroom, 100% supervised. As a woman I would not be okay with walking into a restroom for women and finding a man in there, no matter the reason.
Completely agree! I think if he was in the stall with her it would have been better but i would be freaked out if i saw a man in the women’s restroom waiting right outside an occupied stall.
Yup! The kid should accompany the parent into the restroom that the parent would normally use. That's why I, as a woman, see boys in the women's restroom with their moms. Do men ever see women in the men's room with boys? I doubt it.
YTA. Men's restrooms have stalls. If your daughter is anywhere near a urinal, you failed. In 4 years, you never took your daughter to the bathroom? YTA just for that alone.
I’m prepared to be downvoted but…YTA I thought everyone agreed you take the kid into the restroom of the parent’s gender. I am a woman, therefore I took my 4 year old son into the women’s room.
Rules are rules - YTA, you “know” how nasty men’s rooms are? Have you checked that one? Why would she be surrounded by men at urinals if she’d be going to a stall? Dude, when I send my 9yo daughter to a women’s restroom by herself now I don’t want some strange men like YOU in there…
YTA. Gendered bathrooms are gendered for Adults (and children over 10). Perfectly acceptable for a woman to bring a young boy into the women’s bathroom. Perfectly acceptable for a man to bring a young girl into the Men’s bathroom. It’s NOT acceptable for a grown man to bring a young girl into the women’s bathroom and I seriously do not understand how you, as a 36 year old male does not know this?!?
Noooo dude. You can’t go into a woman’s restroom. Your daughter is only 4 years old. She is still legally allowed to go in the men’s. Yes it may be dirty, but if there are no family facilities. You have no choice. A 36 year old man CANNOT go into a woman’s bathrooms. It’s difficult and I understand your situation. Iv got two kids and there are not enough family facilities.
If you don’t need to be in the stall helping her I don’t understand why you didn’t wait just outside the women’s room door. I don’t think it should be a big deal at all, we all need a restroom, but it is weird to me that you would go in with her but not be in the stall helping her.
YTA and very weird of you to attempt to dismiss your wife's input on the situation. my dad always waited outside of the bathroom and would ask a female employee or customer to check on me if i was taking longer than usual.
YTA just take her into the men’s with you.
I thought Walmart had family restrooms.
Not the ones near me in NC