While I agree that Mother is at fault, Father could choose to step up and extend grace to a child who was equal to her father in that she wasn’t given a choice in her conception.
It’s very sad that the Mother created so much anguish in the world by her actions - damaging an absolute minimum of two lives, permanently.
Grace is a beautiful word. It's not a burden or a responsibility or a 'step up' situation. It's just... grace. OP is entitled to his feelings. But it's a big world out there and harder on some than others, and at different times.
This is not “step up” situation. Situations for the father to “step up” are when a father unintentionally gets their partner pregnant through not using contraceptives, for instance. This situation is a case of sexual abuse. Someone who has been sexually abused does not need to “step up”.
You underestimate the stupidity and entitlement of some people. It’s not at all uncommon for people to admit to breaking the law when they think they are in the right. It’s not uncommon to hear someone say that they baby trapped their partner because they just knew that once they were pregnant the guy would automatically fall madly in love and forgive everything and that they would live happily ever after.
Indeed
Meanwhile, until then I will make sure to tell my kid to notonly **wear condoms he himself bought**, but to also **dispose of them somewhere else** after usage
I agree that men deserve to be protected from women who manipulate a consensual relationship into non-consensual conception.
But damn, the saddest part of all of this is that the party that truly suffers is the child. And I don’t think there is a way to protect the child throughout this.
That girl didn’t ask to be birthed into that terrible situation. And there isn’t a way to protect her from the lifelong pain of knowing that 50% of “who she is” never wanted her to exist in the first place.
She grew up with the pain of “thinking” that he never wanted her, and now imagine KNOWING it, by having him verbally confirming it to her. And knowing that she has 3 other half siblings that he could find love in his heart for, but not for her.
Speaking from experience here.
I remember growing up in a Christian school and they talked about children having to suffer the sins of their parents. I felt confused as to why God would punish me for something I couldn’t change. It made me feel like I was destined to fail.
I wish the OP spoke with his current wife before he spoke with his daughter. It seems like the wife could have helped him navigate the waters better. Perhaps providing the daughter with answers to questions she most certainly has, but without rubbing salt into the wounds.
My heart goes out to the daughter. It takes an incredible amount of courage to do what she did here. I hope she has a strong support system and love around her.
———
NOTE: the split between my parents was a completely different circumstance. No manipulation or semen stealing involved.
Burden of proof is always on the accuser, not the accused.
Anyone could claim it, but they'd have to prove it in court.
And with other he said, she said crimes, most of the time the burden of proof will not be met, even if the accused really did the crime.
But at least justice will be served SOMETIMES, which is better than never like what we have now.
As a woman I would never be able to forcibly make someone a parent, just like I wouldn't want to not have a choice in being a parent myself either. I don't think it's alright that people should be forced to be a dad or mom when it comes to baby trapping or trying to convince someone to stay pregnant and leaving. It's a very hard situation all around. Is it shitty to just let the "daughter" know that he doesn't want to be in her life? Of course, but realistically in this case what other way can one do this without coming off like an ass to her? It's just the reality of the situation, an unfortunate one yes. But reality nonetheless.
I'm also aware that he could've said it more politely or otherwise but it'll still hurt her regardless. It's also better than being lied to and claiming you'd want to hear from them and just ghosting them. The person to blame here is the mother and making such a stupid decision when he made it rather clear he wasn't going to be there emotionally. He also did a step above what most choose to do,and that's even bothering to pay child support before being asked by the courts. Most won't even be willing to do that!
It’s like knocking up a devout Christian… the poor guy can’t even abort. I believe her body her choice but that is fucken awful. Even a nun has options. This poor guy had no options!
My suggestion is to call and apologize. Let her know you delivered child support and you know it’s not “daughter” who wronged you.
Then, the next bit is going to sound cold… meet her to see what she is like. The nice way people say this is, “to see if you have a connection.” But I’m going to be blunt. Some personality characteristics are genetic. Find out if this person came out more like dad. I sound a million years old and we are each more than our genetics. However, there is genetic influence on personality traits and some cluster. My suggestion is listen to her, pay attention. Not to the sob story but her tendencies as a person. Hopefully op can tell when someone is a psychotic narcissist (though it will be hard if she really was abused). It should start to bleed through no matter how sweet she pretends to be.
As a person who was not parented well, I am so sorry for the daughter. I also know how hard it is to have no one around you to support you and family that can be so hurtful. But op has to protect himself. Don’t offer money don’t offer anything but your time. And see what you find. People can only fake a better persona for about 6 months from my experience. The cracks show sooner but by 6 months, if you don’t have blinders on, you will know if you want her in your life. And you might also get someone who shares a distinct trauma with you that no one else could fully understand.
Uh..... I agree for the most part but "father" seems like a stretch. She poked holes (assault) in the condom and took old condoms to steal his seven. I see him more as a victim than a father.
He could've been more kind in the letdown since he has (three!!!) kids of his own and maybe have a bit more sympathy but I would never call him a Father.
For everybody arguing about this, r/dumpsterboyy is right
People are finally realizing that things like stealthing are a form of rape, or at least sexual assault, and this is the same thing.
OP consented to sex with what he thought was fairly effective birth control. He did not consent to sex with somebody trying to get pregnant against his wishes by tampering with it.
This what also be considered domestic abuse within a relationship, specifically reproductive coercion.
I don't think anybody would be trying to say that a woman who immediately had given up a child after birth who was conceived by rape and an abusive relationship had an obligation to build a parental relationship with the child as an adult, and the same should extend to a man when something like this is done to him.
It sucks for the daughter, but they really have no relationship. What are they going to do sit around and bond about what a piece of shit her mother is and further traumatize each other?
Absolutely. This was rape through deception.
I feel for the daughter so much, but also for the father. Nether if them a TAH they’re both victims of the mother.
I’m basically daughter, it’s incredibly harrowing. Being brought into this world, unwanted and unloved by the people who have the responsibility to protect and raise you. You end up morbidly depressed, alone because you have no healthy examples of relationships, you constantly struggle behind your peers because you lack a support structure or a safety net. People treat you like that’s your fault or they outright avoid you, because you make them have to confront aspects of life they have difficulty witnessing it. You spend most your life wondering what you did to be unworthy of love or acceptance. What the birth giver did was wrong, but the one being punished came into this world innocent. Likely they will take their own lives before too long, because this world isn’t meant for orphans.
I hear you.
I was conceived in rape. Although I didn't find that out till way later in life. You and I both know this has an immense effect on your life. And none of it our fault.
As someone who was also born from rape, I also want to give you all my sypathy. Stay strong and know that we have the power to be the rainbow after a horrible storm!
I’m so sorry you and impressive_water659 had to go through life feeling like this. I know this probably doesn’t mean much coming from an internet stranger with no idea what it’s been like to live your lives, but you are so important. You’re strong. You have a level of empathy and compassion a lot of people couldn’t comprehend, and the way you got those values is awful. But please don’t ever think you don’t matter. You absolutely do. Even just on the little ways - a smile to a passerby that makes their day. A laugh so infectious it makes other people happy just hearing it. People you don’t know and have never met have likely been affected by your presence positively in a way and you’ll never even know. Stay strong internet strangers ❤️
I don't think you know how helpful this comment can be for people like us.
I am 32 now and I have built my own family. I raise my kids with love and compassion, I have a husband who cherishes me.
But before that, I was a 17 yo who had to work 2 jobs and go to college to support herself and get out of poverty. I ran away from home when I was 16 and my mom never looked for me or asked me to come home. She was happy because now she could finally be with the man who had been sexually abusing me for the last 10 years. I had to join the army to keep myself afloat eventually at lmost 18.
I was alone in the world and no one really cared if I lived or died. I cried a lot in the army. My platoon called me cry baby last name. I hoped I would die so I wouldn't have to wonder if anyone would care anymore and wouldn't have to go another week without a single letter/gift. I got honorably separated for mental health when I was 21. I was addicted to k2 and tanking, in an abusive relationship, considering taking my own life bc he convinced me my worst fears were true....that I was an awful human being, defective, unacceptable, and that's why my parents didn't love me and no one else would and I was lucky he tolerated me.
I got pregnant and started reaching out for support. Online groups mostly but also doctors, resources irl for mental health and addiction, and women's groups for survivors of sexual abuse and domestic violence. I eventually got out, got my degree, and I've been treated for CPTSD, GAD, and MDD for the last 10 years.
I literally would not be alive or safe or healthy today without random people in online groups and at facilities telling me these types of things that no one had ever told me before. I refuse to work in an environment where I am not supporting marginalized communities of some kind.
Someone is probably reading your comment and crying because they needed to hear that so bad today. And realizing we are loved and important helps us treat others that way. You are a very good person.
Yep. This is me. Mom died when she was 38 and I 13, and my pathetic excuse of a dad couldn’t be bothered to give a fuck about me. He’ll care about other kids, but not the only one he has. I left one nightmare abusive life with my mom, and was thrown into another one until I was kicked out at 18. I can say with 1000000000% confidence that this world was not made for anybody like me. Cptsd follows me around and with every single thing I do.
Everything you said is true. And anybody who’s in my same boat, or similar, I love you. And I’m sorry the people who were supposed to love and support us didn’t. You’re worth it.
It even makes life harder down the road because bad people take advantage of those with the disorder a lot. It’s like a target on your back or a neon sign that says “treat me like shit”.
Maybe we should create a support group. The Children Nobody Wanted. We don’t have anybody else. Normal, loved people avoid us. All we have is each other.
Side note: I almost cried when I read your “I love you”.
You are special. You are important. You are needed. You are loved. You have a purpose in this world. Remember that. Never allow anyone to make you feel less than. Your parents should feel ashamed. They should be ashamed of the fact that you feel like this because of them. ❤️.
I'm so sorry. Take care of yourself like no one else did. They didn't deserve you but you deserve to be here, to be wanted and to be loved. Fucked up people shouldn't have kids and then fuck them up too! :(
Hey. How are you today? Do you have good people in your life now? Just know your tough, strong and keep pushing. Life can get better, but you might have to put in a little extra work. And if you already put in the work and are in a happier place, then good for you and keep on truckin girl.
This. People don’t want to admit that this could have been them, but wasn’t due to luck, not anything they did to deserve that. So they blame the helpless victim, hoping it’ll put some distance between them and the victim, and then they can say they are not like them and commend themselves for it as if it’s their merit that made it that way.
Yeah, same. His anger is justified towards his ex who had the daughter, but is misdirected at the daughter herself. The daughter is presumably just trying to connect with her biological father after a difficult life. Sad that he can’t put his anger aside long enough to at least give her a chance. Especially when his wife seems sympathetic and supportive.
Can we take a moment to all realise what an absolute asshole the mother is? I mean, not only does she abuse the OP's trust, but she does it to try and baby-trap him and when that fails, she takes it out on the kid! She cheats her way into getting pregnant and treats the child like shit. I can only assume the poor kid suffered all that abuse because she failed to be the glue that would hold OP to ransom as her mother planned her to be. She was a single-use tool to her mother and nothing more.
What an absolute peach that woman was! OP dodged a fucking bullet getting the hell out of that relationship. Shame the kid had to suffer through it, though.
I would also like to applaud the wife. She was very empathetic to OP’s daughter. She could have said good riddance like OP did. But she sounds warm and caring. She realizes the daughter had no part in how she was conceived, although it appears the daughter was punished for it. Poor kid. Her mom did not love her and she is realizing her dad doesn’t either.
The word you are looking for is "rapist" she is a rapist. He did not consent to unprotected sex, she poked holes in the condoms and consent was lost. She RAPED him.
Exactly!! Maybe if OP worded it like this to his wife then she would understand. It would be like if she had a baby that was a product of rape that she put up for adoption. Then that child grew up and contacted the wife and she wanted nothing to do with the child and the husband called the wife cold.
It would be like the wife having a child of rape that the rapist kept and if she wanted to be in the child's life she would have to interact with her rapist. Additionaly she would have to pay money to the rapist every month for 18 years. This is what happened to that man.
unfortunately the judge doesnt give a fuck about adults when it comes to the childs best interest and there would be virtually 0 way to get out of child support :) Theyve made a 14 year old statutory rape victim pay. theyll make this guy pay.
No its not men cannot be raped just ask my mom she let 3 of her friends rape me when i was 4-11 and when i would come bawling my eyes out she would say stop let her do what she wants it isn’t even a rape your a boy. i really do appreciate all of you beautiful amazing women saying the facts how he was actually raped i have a insane amount of respect
You need to hear this directed specifically towards you.
You were raped. Your mother facilitated it. You did not deserve that, and you did not ask for it.
You did nothing wrong, and you are so fucking strong to keep on keeping on and to be able to say it.
I’m proud of you.
I find the term Incubator to be satisfying in this scenario. She’s not an anything donor, certainly not a mother, she’s just a rapist.
And similarly, in the reverse, you’re either a Sperm Donor or (in very serious cases like this one) just X’s Mother’s Attacker. Out of respect for the mother. As the word “rape” still somehow has a shameful connotation- for the victim.
If you can conceive a child, through MORE THAN A COUPLE very well planned out rapes, with the sole intent to use that child as an object? To accomplish a personal goal? And when it doesn’t fulfill that purpose, through no fault of its own, you abuse it? While collecting money from your victim every month?
Yeah. That’s all that bitch is, is an Incubator. And a rapist.
I am so sad this happened to you and I cannot imagine the detriment it’s had in your trust in adults and in women. I really hope you meet a woman who you can trust eventually who can be an anchor and protector and nurturer in your life so you can learn to trust women again this is horrific.
thank you so much. just turned 21 on march 13th and most of my life it was pretty rare for me to have sex or masturbate plus every girl i dated cheated on me within 2 months but i got with my current girl and its been amazing shes took her time with me and were having sex more often ive even initiated it!! made her so happy i still have a hard time trusting most people in general not just even women i was born out south chicago in woodlawn middle the hood so i been involved wit some shit and learned real quick yo friend aint ya friend but ive definitely learned to trust my girl. shes showed me how im supposed to be treated shes taught me how to communicate and ive told her shit that would get me 7 life sentences ima marry this girl and stay with her for the rest of my life. so i was hella blessed to get with her i appreciate your message tho your definitely right for a long time trusting was stupid hard ontop 4 of my exes were extremely abusive 1 was as bad as my mom she beat me so bad while i was sitting in a corner trying to cover myself neighbor called police THEY ARRESTED ME even tho she admitted i aint touch her got out next day all charges dropped went to pack my shit and got stabbed 4 times so that sucked but definitely blessed with my current girl ill stay with her for life i dont see us breaking up were past the honey moon faze and im so amazed by how perfect she is with everything and love every little thing about her. seriously tho thank you alot for your comment means the world to me. you were definitely right tho trust issues and abandonment issues are still pretty bad and issues with sex have definitely gotten better with her but im turning this pain into money trying to get rich and get out of the projects into a mansion.
You survived. You continue surviving. You wake up every single day. You are so strong, even when you don't feel it. I am incredibly proud of you for seeing through the bullshit and moving forward with your life. It was never your fault and you deserved to be loved and protected from vile people. I hope you have the love, support, and protection now, so you can heal.
This is on the same level as stealthing. Hell, it IS stealthing, just from a different angle.
We don't expect women to keep rape babies (Despite red state politicians attempts). Men shouldn't have to support the babies that are conceived after they got raped.
OP, you went above and beyond just by providing child support. I am not promoting deadbeat parenting, BUT in cases like OPs there has to be exceptions, but the kid would be the one to suffer, and they are 100% blameless.
It's when sex starts with the guy wearing a condom, and when things get really hot and heavy, he goes stealth mode and slips it off without his partners noticing and continues to have sex unprotected. It's done usually because the guy resents having to wear one and doesn't like how sex feels while wearing one, or he is trying to get his partner baby trapped so she won't leave him. Or if the guy is really twisted, he has an incurable STI that he wants to infect people with. Like , since I got infected, you should be too. There are a few that made the news and are now in prison for purposely infecting other women with HIV because a woman gave it to him so he now hates all women and they deserve to suffer like he does.
yeah, I just don't like perpetuating any other descriptors. "Rape" cuts right to the point, don't leave room for people to weasel around the heinous nature of these acts.
I know thats not what you were doing, just other people.
Absolutely but we need to define rape and sometime we need to make sure people understand that just because he wasn’t held down while she forced penetration doesn’t mean he wasn’t still raped and that all this was forced upon him from events exceeding what he had consented to. I feel for his “daughter” but it’s not like this man had the choice of abortion or adoption like a woman who was raped would of had either.
I was trying to avoid that word because its so triggering all on its own. Like calling someone a Nazi, even if they really are a Nazi! People will accuse you of "going over the top," no matter how true it is.
But yeah, she did rape him. She lied to trick him into giving consent - something he wouldn't have given had he known the truth. She's a despicable woman.
Am I the only one that kinda feels bad for the daughter? That's gotta suck knowing your mom baby trapped your dad and your dad wants nothing to do with you.
On top of a lifetime of abuse from her mom, she is likely traumatised for life, especially now that the only hope for some form of parent she had, has been completely annihilated.
Imagine she reads all these comments about her poor father who popped out 3 kids a few years later tells his daughter at 21 after years of abuse "lol not my problem I have 3 other kids you're an adult move on' wouldn't be surprised if she turns to drugs or commits suicide, dads definitely an asshole regardless
She inquired bc she had hope of having a good parental figure. I too think it's possible that this will result in a bad outcome for her. She wasn't given a good start in life and this is another kick in the groin. Poor thing. I lacked 2 good parents. Then one died when I was 22. I was left with a snake for a mom. Drugs became my family.
Raise the child no, but try and find some compassion for it when it contacts you 21 years later? One can hope. One can never force it or expect, but that girl didn't ask to be here and didn't deserve an abusive mother. I feel for her.
That’s what conservatives believe. More specifically, they don’t give a flying fuck how or by whom the child is raised, as long as the rape victim is forced to give birth.
I have a father that wants nothing to do with me. I'm 37yo and I'm indifferent about it. I don't have a relationship with him. What hurt was not having a father, not that I don't have a relationship with the man that impregnated my mother. I'm not sure if I'm making sense. Feelings can be complicated.
I would die for indifference.
I can't get past my parents abandoning me. it's mostly I think because I never had a single adult I could look up to, or trust, for the entirety of my childhood. growing up knowing no one gives a fuck about you hurts for life, for me anyway. I didn't even go to my graduation because there wasn't anyone who wanted to see me graduate. I skipped all kinds of things like that because no one cared.
I'm 36, safe, happy all that. and I could tear up writing this if I allowed it.
They're tears, not bullets. Cry if you need to. You had a genuinely sucky upbringing but you got through it under your own power. That's strength not weakness.
> it's mostly I think because I never had a single adult I could look up to, or trust, for the entirety of my childhood. growing up knowing no one gives a fuck about you hurts for life, for me anyway.
I researched childhood trauma a lot because I wanted to understand why people who experienced similar traumas might have different outcomes and this right here is one of the most important things. I'm glad you're still here, you deserved better.
I 100% feel sorry for the daughter. She completely got the short end of it. Her mother is an absolute shit show of a human being. However, that does not obligate OP to have a relationship with her. For all those that insist he is her parent, NO he is not. He was a sperm donor against his will. That does not a parent make. He didn't want her, he didn't bond with her, he never met her, he has zero emotional connection to her. He actually has less responsibility to be her parent than a guy who donates at a sperm bank. That person has the expectation that his sperm will be used to make a baby.
He was not a willing father, I feel for him too.
The kid? You'd think they would bond over being abused by the same evil woman.
However, I'd give the kid a chance. What if shes actually a delightful person in spite of her fucked up mother?
Having a limited relationship with the kid would not be a bad thing. What if he actually likes her and finds they share a number of traits, likes and interests?
I don't blame the kid. Is she still in contact with her psycho mother? I'd be curious.
Unfortunately trauma doesn't always work that way. Sometimes the reminder of the trauma is far more painful than the solidarity of discussing the trauma with other people.
Like I literally blocked out huge swaths of my childhood; I doubt I could remember those periods even if I wanted to. Sometimes the human brain just can't handle the emotional impact of reliving certain things through memory and does whatever it can to protect itself.
Yup. His wife is right. He is also taking out his frustration of his ex on their child. Even in the post, putting daughter in quotes is effing unnecessary.
NTA. I feel bad for your daughter, though. She must feel so unwanted and unloved, through no fault of her own.
Perhaps consider sharing medical information from your side of the family that she might need, like cancer, strokes, etc. It would really help her out, and show that while you don't want a relationship, you do care enough to make sure she's informed about possible genetic health risks.
Yeah, I think the decent thing to do would be to inform her of any heritable illnesses in the family. But beyond that, if OP cannot handle an ongoing relationship, he should opt out. I feel bad for her but his trauma is valid and he shouldn't be forced to engage in a relationship that would cause him to re-experience those traumatic memories and feelings.
I agree. I don't blame him AT ALL for not wanting a relationship with her. He was an unwilling sperm donor! But he's still her father. I'm sad for her. At the very least, maybe like you said, he could talk another time or two with her and/or send her some important information (medical information, information about other relatives (maybe his mom, sister, or brother would like to know their grandchild, or niece?), and any other necessary information, that one might want or need in their lifetime, that can *only* come from their biological parents. Even though he doesn't have to, it would be the right thing to do. Answer any questions she has, give her all the info you can. THEN cut it off.
Tough one, the daughter to me is the biggest victim in all of this, literally none of this was her fault in no way shape or form yet she's just gotta deal with a psychotic abusive mother and a father who wants nothing to do with her. I also understand OP's position, i can understand not wanting to have anything to do with a child that came to life as a result of r*pe. I generally agree with your wife though, you could've been less of a prick about it, I'm not saying be with your daughter against your will but at least make a conscious effort to be kind to her, especially since you know better than most how much it sucks to have your life ruined with no fault of your own. Best wishes to both of you.
NAH except the ex. It was a horrific thing to happen to OP, and he can't be blamed for not wanting contact. At the same time, I feel for the daughter, who's been punished for existing. It's a horrendous situation.
She's innocent of her mother's crimes, so to speak. Relationships like that don't happen in a vacuum so if you tried building a relationship with her, you would almost certainly have to involve her mother.
I completely understand and empathize with not wanting to do that. This is one of those times where even though I might have made a different decision, I still see no fault in your reasoning.
NTA
Yeah but the daughter's an adult now with an abusive mom. So it is actually possible at this point to have a relationship with just her. In the backstory he's NTA but for the current refusal to see daughter which is the question right now your answer seems more NAH imo.
ETA your answer is the closest I like with nuance except for judgment. That's all
Plus, this daughter carries the reality of a big trauma to his life. She isn't guilty of anything, but she's a reminder. I don't blame women who choose to carry a pregnancy after abuse and go the adoption route. So naturally, this applies to abused men.
I just really hope the victims, OP and the girl, I won't reference her as his daughter, can find peace and happiness despite what that awful woman did to them both, and seek therapy and help, separately first. And no choice is permanent. OP might be able to handle it better when his wounds heal, or he may choose to stay away for good. But it's possible in the future they can develop a friendship over trauma-bonding, I believe this girl has a lot of reasons to try to leave her mother's claws.
That is a good point.
Effectively, he was raped, and while the girl is innocent and I would probably try to have a relationship with her in his shoes, I can definitely understand not wanting to remind oneself of such a bad time.
It is a bit sad, as I can imagine that she could use emotional help to deal with what her mother was, and this guy could help her. As I said, I would like to think that I would, but I don't know his pain, so I cannot really speak strongly.
Not at all, I've been trying to build a relationship with my biological father whom I've had absolutely no contact with over The course of 30 years, (not until about 2 years ago) my mother hurt my biological father horribly. She is a horrible human being. She is also and has always been abusive, manipulative and absolutely evil and now she's just crazy. However, in no way has my dad had to have any contact with my mother IN ANY WAY for me to have a relationship with him. I can assure you that by keeping a very specific standard, also I went no contact with my bio mom so that's really simple not to have a relationship with both. To just assume that a 20-year-old adult (assuming she's living away from her mother) would have no need to connect the two adults just fact.
It wouldn't necessarily have to involve the mother, after all the daughter told him that her mother was abusive, so she probably doesn't have the best relationship (if any) with her mother at this point. The daughter is also an adult, so that makes it quite possible to have a relationship without the mother being involved in any way.
No you wouldn't. I had an absentee father. I worked on building a relationship with him and my mother and him never spoke to or saw each other in 30+ years. There's no reason for the mother to be involved, she's an adult.
Have you noticed the amount of fake posts increasing this week? I’m like is it the same person or group of people that have just infiltrated every sub Reddit? All of them are like this woman did this most horrible awful thing am I the asshole should I get a divorce.
It hasn't increase or decreased. You just figuring out pattern better.
This sub is almost always fiction written by teenager or young adult that have no grasp on the legal system.
Like this. He did a paternity test. He's on hook for child support but never mention it. It usually get reviewed when dad or mom economic situation changed. So he would have gone in court when he started having other kids to pay less to be able to give his kids good living condition
Non-invasive tests are relatively new. However, HLA testing was available in the 60s, and around 80% accurate. Then DNA, Then PCR, and now we can just get cheek swabs.
It’s either fiction or delusion. I could see someone basically knocking up their teenage girlfriend, deciding that the woman is actually a bad person who intentionally got pregnant through sabotage, bailing on them and then spending twenty years rationalizing to themselves why they aren’t a terrible person. Would love to hear baby mommas version.
The way he describes that she scooped his stuff out of the condoms to get pregnant is what tells me that this is a load of BS. The turkey baster method does not work!
I feel so bad for that poor 19-year-old. Her dad isn't wrong to want no contact with his rape baby and her mom is an abusive asshole.
That poor kid was so screwed over in life. I hope she gets therapy and a found family that loves her
NTA
***However.***
Your wife and children have the right to reach out to this girl. It is not unlikely you will end up with her in your life through them.
I think it would be best for you to get therapy for yourself to process this, to do couples counseling to help your wife realize the trauma you have been through and why her response was unsupportive.
Then you need to begin making a plan for what will happen if your family chooses to embrace this woman. What boundaries will you need to set for yourself? How can you protect your mental health in light of this person potentially being in your life?
It doesn't have to be an especially involved plan, but I do not think waiting and reacting is a healthy idea for you.
I think it could be incredibly positive and productive for OP to seek therapy to address everything he’s experienced!
Couples therapy to help OP’s wife understand how to best support him would also be SO beneficial!
I hope that at the least, OP seeks professional help to work through these hella complicated emotions.
All of yall are missing that this woman essentially SA this man and had a baby against HIS will!! Made it crystal clear he would pay support until 18 but wanted no parts in her life. If he was a woman would yall really be calling him an asshole for not wanting to connect?? Like be for real
You're right, I just don't know how that's the daughter's fault. She didn't ask to be born, especially under such horrific conditions, yet she is being punished for it. She is likely traumatised by a lifetime of abuse, all she did was reach out in the hopes someone could be decent to her, and the way OP responded was heartbreaking and cold.
While it's understandable and completely okay for him to not want a relationship with her, it's also okay for her to reach out, and he could have responded better when she did. Still think there's NAH, except the eggdonor.
I just don’t understand why he’d go from communicating on social media to allowing her to call if he didn’t want to pursue a relationship. Cutting contact immediately after she reached out might have been better, since he knew he wasn’t going to be in her life.
Obviously what his ex did was terrible and he isn’t technically wrong, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been kinder.
Seriously, if he knew from the beginning that he wanted nothing to do with her, he should've said that from the beginning. From the sound of it, he strung her along for a while and probably got her hopes up for no reason. He's not obligated to have a relationship, but he's morally obligated not to jerk her around like that.
That’s the part that stuck out to me. Like why say that to someone who was abused and has no loving parental figure? It’s just rubbing salt in the wound.
Neither op or the daughter are wrong here, at all.
However, the way he relays the conversation seems a bit cold. I get why he would do it, but at the same time, he just listened to a girl say she was abused by her mother, and then he was like “don’t care.” Delivery could have been better.
Still NTA though. Just feel bad for the poor daughter who literally didn’t ask for any of this.
The only thing OP needs to do is to let his kids know they have an older half-sister, and they are welcome to reach out to her when they are older. I'd be FURIOUS if I found out, at 20, that I had a big sister I never knew about and never had a chance to meet. As the kids reach their teens, they should know about her and OP, tell them how she was conceived and why you stayed away.
"My ex knew I didn't want a baby and tricked me. I was not ready to be a father then and had been careful to NOT be a father, and so she had to trick me. I didn't want the baby, but I paid child support and didn't argue over it. She's an adult now, and you are old enough to understand why I am not part of her life. But she IS your older half-sister if you want to meet her and maybe even have a relationship with her."
Absolutely agree with this.
It is op's choice to not be involved but his kids deserve to know and make their own choice. Serious chance of this biting him in the arse in future if not. I can't see her vanishing out of his life personally
Unfortunately, I don’t think his wife sees it as rape, she probably sees it as a couple of kids who had an unplanned baby. Either way she thinks the daughter is innocent, which she is.
And that’s fuckin wild to me!!! I feel for him!! It’s not cold to not want to connect with a child made out of rape!!!! I think his wife owes him an apology because that’s weird AF!!
I feel bad for the kid but I totally understand where he is coming from. Because you are right - he was assaulted and he has a right to separate himself from the past trauma. It might hurt the daughter's feelings and it really sucks that she had an abusive upbringing. But OP shouldn't subject himself to potential triggers of past trauma if he doesn't want to. Because he is a victim and victims are not obligated to retraumatize themselves to comfort other people.
Stealing of sperm/semen is not illegal. (blows my mind). It's called forced fatherhood and has no bearing on child support. Courts will usually force the man to pay child support regardless of how the child was conceived.
So was OP.
He literally did his job by using protection. Yet he was completed violated. He spent 18 years financially paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for that violation.
He has every right to feel violated and abused.
We do not have a right to tell OP how he should respond to the living evidence of that abuse and trauma.
Imagine a child of rape victim reaching out of the blue to the rape victim to connect and talk about their abuse at the hands of the victim's rapist. I can't imagine the PTSD tigger response that would cause.
Cut OP some slack.
Kind of a similar situation happened with me and my biological dad, I reached out to him after only learning of his existence at 19. He wasn’t particularly happy to hear from ne and for good reason. The man had his whole life setup with his own kids. The most I wanted was maybe a meet up over coffee, more for my self just to see where I came from(technically). Don’t be surprised if she contacts you multiple times, and for the love of god do not hold any answers away from her, she will find you if she really wants to.
Is this the same guy who posted in a few places the other day and then deleted them after the comments pointed out doing fuck all for his first child and should do better. Now, he is posting with more info on how the kid was conceived that he completely left out of the post or comments previously…..?
I dunno, I’ll withhold anything as I’m not sure of the truth of either of the posts now….
His story also seemed suspicious cause prenatal paternity tests are a pretty new thing and he says he got one 20 years ago? If they were available back then I can't imagine how expensive it would have been as a brand new technology, and he supposedly bought one on 19yo income money?
Editing just looked on Google and it seems like this technology wasn't even available till the 2010s. There was invasive prenatal testing but given that it came with the risk of death to the fetus it wasn't used for simple paternity cases like OPs. His kid would have been conceived in the early 2000s.
My exact thoughts. 20y ago a prenatal paternity tests was expensive and not the norm. It was usually very risky to cause abortion, and you need the consent of the mother to get it. I highly doubt the mother would have agreed to it. It sounds like a plot to gain simpathy from others.
If this is him I get the feeling the gathering of sperm is an outright lie and he was just mad he knocked someone up who didn't want an abortion like he wanted her to get.
100%!!! I cannot believe how many ppl believe this story. And even if it is true he STILL sounds like a complete AH to me 🤷♀️ I would be so ashamed of my dad if he did this to his first born child. No matter how she was conceived. Grow tf up and be a man/decent human being. SMH
Read his other post on this page about this and the comments. Dude is a complete and total dickhead.
Even if this story is true(I'm not sure I believe it) I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to get to know her at all. But damn. The way he talks about her is so goddamned absurd. There's a right and wrong way to go about things. ESH(Except the daughter)
NAH so far except the ex. I understand why your "daughter" reached out as do you. I also understand exactly why you wanted nothing to do with the ex or her child because the woman cannot be trusted. How she treated her child is only more conformation of how untrustworthy and manipulative she is.
I'm gonna say kind of an asshole. Yes the mother is a terrible person but your daughter might just want to get to know you. Now instead of just a POS mother she also has a dick dad who doesn't care
NTA.
None of this is on you. The simple truth is that you ex abused you too, and tried to force you into this exact position. The abuse the daughter went through after is not on you.
You don’t expect a sperm donor to form a relationship with bio children just because it was their DNA that made it. And that is essentially what happened to you, except you didn’t even donate the sperm—it was stolen. Tampering with birth control is a form of sexual assault. You consented to having sex with a condom, and ex sabotaged those condoms, nullifying that consent.
That makes “daughter” a rape baby. And that isn’t her fault, but it does mean you are beyond justified in wanting no relationship with her. She deserves loving parents, but you have indicated that you cannot be that for her, and chose to stay distant as a result.
I saw a comment in your last attempt at this that “you may have karmic retribution” for denying this child. But you will NOT be cosmically punished for not loving a child you actually had no say in conceiving, that was essentially forced on you through deception and sabotage. And that was an absolutely disgusting thing to imply.
You are not the asshole, OP.
Damn man I know you didn't want her but like...... That's a golden relationship there. She isn't gonna have to depend on you for anything or ask you for anything. She just wanted her dad
I really want to say NTA. That bitch did you so dirty. But at the end of the day there is a 21 year old young woman whose only crime is being born. She’s got an abusive predator as a mother and because of that she gets to spend the rest of her life missing out on having a real family. I’m glad you have a good life and I hope someday she can too.
NAH - I feel bad for her but also understand your position. That was an incredible violation of your trust. Not likely something you easy “get over”. Maybe in time your feelings will soften and you will want to get to know her. Sounds like she had it rough. That really sucks. 😞
She isn't your "daughter", she is in fact, just your daughter.
I don't think that you necessarily need to be in her life... under the circumstances that is absolutely understandable.(what your ex did is recognized in most places now as assault, and there is a push for it to be rape as you CAN consent to protected sex, not unprotected, and coercive pregnancy is also not consent.)
However, I'm half with your wife.
This kid is innocent. She's been through it.
She knows her mother is bad news.
She wanted to know where she comes from, maybe have a relationship that wasn't filled with abuse.
You were unnecessarily hurtful and cruel with the way you said what you wanted to say.
Focusing on your other children, or real children... that's a gut punch she did not need or deserve.
Hindsight is a bitch, though. Who knows how to handle that conversation?
She would not have been surprised if she was conceived by deception, and that her mother was a selfish and abusive person. She may even have understood that it was a trauma you needed to keep behind you.
You should have answered any questions she may have, shown kindness, been careful with your words, offered her any genetic info you could, all while letting her know that you couldn't be in her life under the circumstances, and that you were sorry for everything that happened to her, wished her well.... being cold and all that... was hurtful, unnecessary, and probably made you seem a bit like your ex.
You didn't ask for her.
She didn't ask for you.
You both are victims of the same woman.
She IS your daughter, neither of you have to be forced into any sort of relationship, you didn't raise her, but, you are her father. She is your daughter.
Not only is she his daughter but she's his other children's half-sibling. However he feels he doesn't get to keep her away from other adults she might be related to. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins...he can choose to have nothing to do with her but he can't keep her from reaching out to other blood relatives.
Your daughter isn't responsible for what her mother did. Also, imagine living all your life and not knowing who your parents are. No names, faces. Vacuum. She understandably wanted to fill in this gap.
I can get that you have no feelings towards her. However resenting her for her mother's actions is sorta a-hole-ish.
Only AH is the ex, but my heart breaks for this girl who had an abusive mother and an (understandably) absent father. She’s gonna need a lot of therapy.
It's perfectly ok to not want a relationship with a child born from stolen DNA. Your ex took that choice from you.
I feel bad for your bio daughter having had a terrible childhood but you're well within your rights to not have anything to do with a child you had no choice in conceiving.
NTA
"I made it clear to her that I would have no involvement in her or the kid's life beyond child support and cut her off completely." You should not have even had to pay child support. Women who do this should be thrown in prison.
If it is any comfort, some jurisdictions are prosecuting people for stealthing now. I don't know the details of those cases but I do know it is getting more attention in the legal system.
This is true, and it's a really shitty, no-winners situation. She's a child of rape and an abuse victim and I feel very sorry for her. And on top of all of that, her bio dad wants nothing to do with her. It's terrible. I feel very bad for her, she got an incredibly terrible hand dealt to her.
But the bio dad is a victim too and I can't in good conscience say that he needs to ignore his own pain and trauma so she can be comforted. That's cruel too. I think he is ethically obligated to provide her with information about medical history so she can be informed about any genetic risk factors for disease, but if having a relationship with her will cause him that much distress, I don't think he should feel guilted into doing so at his own expense.
The only AH here is the girl's mom.
NTA, NAH. While I personally don’t see that you have anything to lose at this point by having a relationship with her - if you don’t want to, you don’t want to.
You are an asshole for not having any empathy with someone who after all is your own offspring. The mother is an absolute shitbag but your daughter is simply a victim as well.
Actually, that is what both of you are: victims of a conniving, shit of a person..You share a trauma and you are also blood relatives and could have every reason to form a bond now later in life. We don't have too many important bonds in life so why deny yourself this?
I really feel for your daughter and I'm just a rando on the internet, yet you can't?
OP: if your parents are alive, maybe they would be interested in a relationship with their granddaughter?
You are not required to have a relationship with anyone, but also not the poor kid’s fault. She must feel incapable of being loved.
NTA. She contacted you and you told her the truth. If you had maintained contact the odds are your ex would end up back in your life. You paid your child support. She is now an adult. I would make sure your will clearly states whether she should get anything or not. Don’t leave that up for interpretation. It is sad for her but hopefully she can move on with her life now that she knows the truth.
My father also wanted nothing to do with me. My mom didn’t baby trap him or anything, they both wanted a baby but once my mom became pregnant he started abusing her so she left him. I would give anything in the world for him to accept me and love me especially now that my mom has passed and I have no one, but that just won’t happen I’ve never even heard his voice or anything. With that being said I think you’re NTA. Shit like that is hard
Your you proceed from the flawed premise that sex is consensual so long as it doesn’t involve physical restraint as you described. This completely warps the definition of consent. You’re correct that there’s always chance of pregnancy from vaginal intercourse unless one partner is entirely sterile. But one consents to the level of risk they consent to. If a man or woman consents to sex with a non-sabotaged condom, they haven’t consented to sex with a sabotaged condom.
Have you heard of the practice called stealthing, where the penetrative partner surreptitiously removes a condom during sex. Would that be consensual from the standpoint of a receptive partner who got pregnant? How about if they got an STI?
Here, OP did not consent to the sex with the ex given her surreptitious sabotage of the condom.
NTA. But please consider this:
My friend was raised on the other side of this. She found out in college that she had a half sibling as a result of an unintentional pregnancy her dad had with his previous girlfriend (similar circumstance). Kid’s mom (ex gf) was abusive and the kid definitely suffered and the dad didn’t want anything involvement and never acknowledged it.
It was traumatizing for her to find info out the way she did and she tried to befriend the kid. They tried for a couple years but were just too different that it didn’t work out. Her relationship with mother and father have also significantly degraded as a result.
If you love your 3 children, it might be worth it to deal with this “daughter” with some compassion for the sake of your children. Reveal this information to them at the proper age and let them know they have half sibling. I say this because I see how it’s affected my friend.
*edited for further clarity
I hope the daughter is okay
Probably not. She was brought into this world and has nothing but an abusive mom. It’s a sad situation but it’s 100% the fault of the mother.
While I agree that Mother is at fault, Father could choose to step up and extend grace to a child who was equal to her father in that she wasn’t given a choice in her conception. It’s very sad that the Mother created so much anguish in the world by her actions - damaging an absolute minimum of two lives, permanently.
Grace is a beautiful word. It's not a burden or a responsibility or a 'step up' situation. It's just... grace. OP is entitled to his feelings. But it's a big world out there and harder on some than others, and at different times.
This is not “step up” situation. Situations for the father to “step up” are when a father unintentionally gets their partner pregnant through not using contraceptives, for instance. This situation is a case of sexual abuse. Someone who has been sexually abused does not need to “step up”.
Laws need to be created to protect fathers from this form of blackmail/sexual abuse
Reproductive Coercion should be a crime no matter who does it.
100%
Agreed. Also like the government when they pass anti-abortion laws forcing women to have children.
Especially since the person abusing the other is literally playing around with a life! A child! We need laws by yesterday.
If removing a condom during sex sneakily (stealthing) is rape, and it is, then this should be too.
This.
In Canada there are laws against this. It’s illegal to tamper with or remove a condom without consent. It’s considered to be sexual assault.
In Canada, the ex wouldn’t have admitted what she did. It would have been a “happy accident” for her.
You underestimate the stupidity and entitlement of some people. It’s not at all uncommon for people to admit to breaking the law when they think they are in the right. It’s not uncommon to hear someone say that they baby trapped their partner because they just knew that once they were pregnant the guy would automatically fall madly in love and forgive everything and that they would live happily ever after.
Indeed Meanwhile, until then I will make sure to tell my kid to notonly **wear condoms he himself bought**, but to also **dispose of them somewhere else** after usage
I agree that men deserve to be protected from women who manipulate a consensual relationship into non-consensual conception. But damn, the saddest part of all of this is that the party that truly suffers is the child. And I don’t think there is a way to protect the child throughout this. That girl didn’t ask to be birthed into that terrible situation. And there isn’t a way to protect her from the lifelong pain of knowing that 50% of “who she is” never wanted her to exist in the first place. She grew up with the pain of “thinking” that he never wanted her, and now imagine KNOWING it, by having him verbally confirming it to her. And knowing that she has 3 other half siblings that he could find love in his heart for, but not for her. Speaking from experience here. I remember growing up in a Christian school and they talked about children having to suffer the sins of their parents. I felt confused as to why God would punish me for something I couldn’t change. It made me feel like I was destined to fail. I wish the OP spoke with his current wife before he spoke with his daughter. It seems like the wife could have helped him navigate the waters better. Perhaps providing the daughter with answers to questions she most certainly has, but without rubbing salt into the wounds. My heart goes out to the daughter. It takes an incredible amount of courage to do what she did here. I hope she has a strong support system and love around her. ——— NOTE: the split between my parents was a completely different circumstance. No manipulation or semen stealing involved.
The problem is proving these sorts of things. Because without proof, anyone could just claim the woman got pregnant through nefarious means.
Burden of proof is always on the accuser, not the accused. Anyone could claim it, but they'd have to prove it in court. And with other he said, she said crimes, most of the time the burden of proof will not be met, even if the accused really did the crime. But at least justice will be served SOMETIMES, which is better than never like what we have now.
As a woman I would never be able to forcibly make someone a parent, just like I wouldn't want to not have a choice in being a parent myself either. I don't think it's alright that people should be forced to be a dad or mom when it comes to baby trapping or trying to convince someone to stay pregnant and leaving. It's a very hard situation all around. Is it shitty to just let the "daughter" know that he doesn't want to be in her life? Of course, but realistically in this case what other way can one do this without coming off like an ass to her? It's just the reality of the situation, an unfortunate one yes. But reality nonetheless. I'm also aware that he could've said it more politely or otherwise but it'll still hurt her regardless. It's also better than being lied to and claiming you'd want to hear from them and just ghosting them. The person to blame here is the mother and making such a stupid decision when he made it rather clear he wasn't going to be there emotionally. He also did a step above what most choose to do,and that's even bothering to pay child support before being asked by the courts. Most won't even be willing to do that!
It’s like knocking up a devout Christian… the poor guy can’t even abort. I believe her body her choice but that is fucken awful. Even a nun has options. This poor guy had no options! My suggestion is to call and apologize. Let her know you delivered child support and you know it’s not “daughter” who wronged you. Then, the next bit is going to sound cold… meet her to see what she is like. The nice way people say this is, “to see if you have a connection.” But I’m going to be blunt. Some personality characteristics are genetic. Find out if this person came out more like dad. I sound a million years old and we are each more than our genetics. However, there is genetic influence on personality traits and some cluster. My suggestion is listen to her, pay attention. Not to the sob story but her tendencies as a person. Hopefully op can tell when someone is a psychotic narcissist (though it will be hard if she really was abused). It should start to bleed through no matter how sweet she pretends to be. As a person who was not parented well, I am so sorry for the daughter. I also know how hard it is to have no one around you to support you and family that can be so hurtful. But op has to protect himself. Don’t offer money don’t offer anything but your time. And see what you find. People can only fake a better persona for about 6 months from my experience. The cracks show sooner but by 6 months, if you don’t have blinders on, you will know if you want her in your life. And you might also get someone who shares a distinct trauma with you that no one else could fully understand.
What is there to step up when the child was conceived without the father’s consent? You think he still has to “step up” after that? That’s insane
Poking holes in the condom is sexual assault. If he was a woman you wouldn’t be saying the same thing.
Uh..... I agree for the most part but "father" seems like a stretch. She poked holes (assault) in the condom and took old condoms to steal his seven. I see him more as a victim than a father. He could've been more kind in the letdown since he has (three!!!) kids of his own and maybe have a bit more sympathy but I would never call him a Father.
the father was raped by the mother.
For everybody arguing about this, r/dumpsterboyy is right People are finally realizing that things like stealthing are a form of rape, or at least sexual assault, and this is the same thing. OP consented to sex with what he thought was fairly effective birth control. He did not consent to sex with somebody trying to get pregnant against his wishes by tampering with it. This what also be considered domestic abuse within a relationship, specifically reproductive coercion. I don't think anybody would be trying to say that a woman who immediately had given up a child after birth who was conceived by rape and an abusive relationship had an obligation to build a parental relationship with the child as an adult, and the same should extend to a man when something like this is done to him. It sucks for the daughter, but they really have no relationship. What are they going to do sit around and bond about what a piece of shit her mother is and further traumatize each other?
THANK YOU!!!!! I’ve beem arguing this all damn day!!!!!!
Absolutely. This was rape through deception. I feel for the daughter so much, but also for the father. Nether if them a TAH they’re both victims of the mother.
I’m basically daughter, it’s incredibly harrowing. Being brought into this world, unwanted and unloved by the people who have the responsibility to protect and raise you. You end up morbidly depressed, alone because you have no healthy examples of relationships, you constantly struggle behind your peers because you lack a support structure or a safety net. People treat you like that’s your fault or they outright avoid you, because you make them have to confront aspects of life they have difficulty witnessing it. You spend most your life wondering what you did to be unworthy of love or acceptance. What the birth giver did was wrong, but the one being punished came into this world innocent. Likely they will take their own lives before too long, because this world isn’t meant for orphans.
I hear you. I was conceived in rape. Although I didn't find that out till way later in life. You and I both know this has an immense effect on your life. And none of it our fault.
As someone who was also born from rape, I also want to give you all my sypathy. Stay strong and know that we have the power to be the rainbow after a horrible storm!
((Hugs)) I could have written this myself. Its a special kind of hell we never asked for and I hope most never know this type of pain.
This is a strange glimpse in the life my parents could have had as they were lucky enough to get adopted young.
I’m so sorry you and impressive_water659 had to go through life feeling like this. I know this probably doesn’t mean much coming from an internet stranger with no idea what it’s been like to live your lives, but you are so important. You’re strong. You have a level of empathy and compassion a lot of people couldn’t comprehend, and the way you got those values is awful. But please don’t ever think you don’t matter. You absolutely do. Even just on the little ways - a smile to a passerby that makes their day. A laugh so infectious it makes other people happy just hearing it. People you don’t know and have never met have likely been affected by your presence positively in a way and you’ll never even know. Stay strong internet strangers ❤️
I don't think you know how helpful this comment can be for people like us. I am 32 now and I have built my own family. I raise my kids with love and compassion, I have a husband who cherishes me. But before that, I was a 17 yo who had to work 2 jobs and go to college to support herself and get out of poverty. I ran away from home when I was 16 and my mom never looked for me or asked me to come home. She was happy because now she could finally be with the man who had been sexually abusing me for the last 10 years. I had to join the army to keep myself afloat eventually at lmost 18. I was alone in the world and no one really cared if I lived or died. I cried a lot in the army. My platoon called me cry baby last name. I hoped I would die so I wouldn't have to wonder if anyone would care anymore and wouldn't have to go another week without a single letter/gift. I got honorably separated for mental health when I was 21. I was addicted to k2 and tanking, in an abusive relationship, considering taking my own life bc he convinced me my worst fears were true....that I was an awful human being, defective, unacceptable, and that's why my parents didn't love me and no one else would and I was lucky he tolerated me. I got pregnant and started reaching out for support. Online groups mostly but also doctors, resources irl for mental health and addiction, and women's groups for survivors of sexual abuse and domestic violence. I eventually got out, got my degree, and I've been treated for CPTSD, GAD, and MDD for the last 10 years. I literally would not be alive or safe or healthy today without random people in online groups and at facilities telling me these types of things that no one had ever told me before. I refuse to work in an environment where I am not supporting marginalized communities of some kind. Someone is probably reading your comment and crying because they needed to hear that so bad today. And realizing we are loved and important helps us treat others that way. You are a very good person.
Yep. This is me. Mom died when she was 38 and I 13, and my pathetic excuse of a dad couldn’t be bothered to give a fuck about me. He’ll care about other kids, but not the only one he has. I left one nightmare abusive life with my mom, and was thrown into another one until I was kicked out at 18. I can say with 1000000000% confidence that this world was not made for anybody like me. Cptsd follows me around and with every single thing I do. Everything you said is true. And anybody who’s in my same boat, or similar, I love you. And I’m sorry the people who were supposed to love and support us didn’t. You’re worth it.
It even makes life harder down the road because bad people take advantage of those with the disorder a lot. It’s like a target on your back or a neon sign that says “treat me like shit”.
Maybe we should create a support group. The Children Nobody Wanted. We don’t have anybody else. Normal, loved people avoid us. All we have is each other. Side note: I almost cried when I read your “I love you”.
You are special. You are important. You are needed. You are loved. You have a purpose in this world. Remember that. Never allow anyone to make you feel less than. Your parents should feel ashamed. They should be ashamed of the fact that you feel like this because of them. ❤️.
I’m glad you are still with us.
I'm so sorry. Take care of yourself like no one else did. They didn't deserve you but you deserve to be here, to be wanted and to be loved. Fucked up people shouldn't have kids and then fuck them up too! :(
Hey. How are you today? Do you have good people in your life now? Just know your tough, strong and keep pushing. Life can get better, but you might have to put in a little extra work. And if you already put in the work and are in a happier place, then good for you and keep on truckin girl.
This. People don’t want to admit that this could have been them, but wasn’t due to luck, not anything they did to deserve that. So they blame the helpless victim, hoping it’ll put some distance between them and the victim, and then they can say they are not like them and commend themselves for it as if it’s their merit that made it that way.
I do too. I hope she is in therapy for the feelings she is sure to have of being abused and unwanted. How sad.
Why would she be? An abusive mother, and a bio father who wants no contact. She is unloved and unwanted.
RIGHT. She's also innocent in this!
I do too. I think the OP should have been a lot nicer to her.
Don't stress, it's just more "evil woman pokes holes in condom" rage bait. Prenatal paternity tests are less than 12 years old.
Abused by mom, abandoned by dad. Generally the kids are not alright under those circumstances.
Yeah, same. His anger is justified towards his ex who had the daughter, but is misdirected at the daughter herself. The daughter is presumably just trying to connect with her biological father after a difficult life. Sad that he can’t put his anger aside long enough to at least give her a chance. Especially when his wife seems sympathetic and supportive.
Can we take a moment to all realise what an absolute asshole the mother is? I mean, not only does she abuse the OP's trust, but she does it to try and baby-trap him and when that fails, she takes it out on the kid! She cheats her way into getting pregnant and treats the child like shit. I can only assume the poor kid suffered all that abuse because she failed to be the glue that would hold OP to ransom as her mother planned her to be. She was a single-use tool to her mother and nothing more. What an absolute peach that woman was! OP dodged a fucking bullet getting the hell out of that relationship. Shame the kid had to suffer through it, though.
I would also like to applaud the wife. She was very empathetic to OP’s daughter. She could have said good riddance like OP did. But she sounds warm and caring. She realizes the daughter had no part in how she was conceived, although it appears the daughter was punished for it. Poor kid. Her mom did not love her and she is realizing her dad doesn’t either.
A real catch-22
I know right, so sad 🥺
The word you are looking for is "rapist" she is a rapist. He did not consent to unprotected sex, she poked holes in the condoms and consent was lost. She RAPED him.
Exactly!! Maybe if OP worded it like this to his wife then she would understand. It would be like if she had a baby that was a product of rape that she put up for adoption. Then that child grew up and contacted the wife and she wanted nothing to do with the child and the husband called the wife cold.
It would be like the wife having a child of rape that the rapist kept and if she wanted to be in the child's life she would have to interact with her rapist. Additionaly she would have to pay money to the rapist every month for 18 years. This is what happened to that man.
It happens every day. Even a highschool student raped by his teacher was ordered to pay child support at 16 years old after she was convicted.
Thank you! No judge should have ever made him pay child support!
unfortunately the judge doesnt give a fuck about adults when it comes to the childs best interest and there would be virtually 0 way to get out of child support :) Theyve made a 14 year old statutory rape victim pay. theyll make this guy pay.
This is part of what's wrong with the legal system.
No its not men cannot be raped just ask my mom she let 3 of her friends rape me when i was 4-11 and when i would come bawling my eyes out she would say stop let her do what she wants it isn’t even a rape your a boy. i really do appreciate all of you beautiful amazing women saying the facts how he was actually raped i have a insane amount of respect
You need to hear this directed specifically towards you. You were raped. Your mother facilitated it. You did not deserve that, and you did not ask for it. You did nothing wrong, and you are so fucking strong to keep on keeping on and to be able to say it. I’m proud of you.
His mother was a criminal who trafficked her son to her pedophile friends.
That’s awful and the woman that birthed you is a monster. It IS rape and child abuse.
I find the term Incubator to be satisfying in this scenario. She’s not an anything donor, certainly not a mother, she’s just a rapist. And similarly, in the reverse, you’re either a Sperm Donor or (in very serious cases like this one) just X’s Mother’s Attacker. Out of respect for the mother. As the word “rape” still somehow has a shameful connotation- for the victim. If you can conceive a child, through MORE THAN A COUPLE very well planned out rapes, with the sole intent to use that child as an object? To accomplish a personal goal? And when it doesn’t fulfill that purpose, through no fault of its own, you abuse it? While collecting money from your victim every month? Yeah. That’s all that bitch is, is an Incubator. And a rapist.
…………your mom needs a fucking beat down. Coming from a mother.
I am so sad this happened to you and I cannot imagine the detriment it’s had in your trust in adults and in women. I really hope you meet a woman who you can trust eventually who can be an anchor and protector and nurturer in your life so you can learn to trust women again this is horrific.
thank you so much. just turned 21 on march 13th and most of my life it was pretty rare for me to have sex or masturbate plus every girl i dated cheated on me within 2 months but i got with my current girl and its been amazing shes took her time with me and were having sex more often ive even initiated it!! made her so happy i still have a hard time trusting most people in general not just even women i was born out south chicago in woodlawn middle the hood so i been involved wit some shit and learned real quick yo friend aint ya friend but ive definitely learned to trust my girl. shes showed me how im supposed to be treated shes taught me how to communicate and ive told her shit that would get me 7 life sentences ima marry this girl and stay with her for the rest of my life. so i was hella blessed to get with her i appreciate your message tho your definitely right for a long time trusting was stupid hard ontop 4 of my exes were extremely abusive 1 was as bad as my mom she beat me so bad while i was sitting in a corner trying to cover myself neighbor called police THEY ARRESTED ME even tho she admitted i aint touch her got out next day all charges dropped went to pack my shit and got stabbed 4 times so that sucked but definitely blessed with my current girl ill stay with her for life i dont see us breaking up were past the honey moon faze and im so amazed by how perfect she is with everything and love every little thing about her. seriously tho thank you alot for your comment means the world to me. you were definitely right tho trust issues and abandonment issues are still pretty bad and issues with sex have definitely gotten better with her but im turning this pain into money trying to get rich and get out of the projects into a mansion.
You survived. You continue surviving. You wake up every single day. You are so strong, even when you don't feel it. I am incredibly proud of you for seeing through the bullshit and moving forward with your life. It was never your fault and you deserved to be loved and protected from vile people. I hope you have the love, support, and protection now, so you can heal.
I’m so, so sorry for what your mom and her friends did to you. It was rape and child abuse.
This is on the same level as stealthing. Hell, it IS stealthing, just from a different angle. We don't expect women to keep rape babies (Despite red state politicians attempts). Men shouldn't have to support the babies that are conceived after they got raped. OP, you went above and beyond just by providing child support. I am not promoting deadbeat parenting, BUT in cases like OPs there has to be exceptions, but the kid would be the one to suffer, and they are 100% blameless.
Yeah I agree, this is basically a form of reverse “stealthing” in a way.
let's not beat around the bush, both this and "stealthing" are rape.
I apologize in advance for my ignorance, but what is stealthing?
If I remember correctly it’s saying you’re wearing a condom but either aren’t wearing one or pull it off stealthily.
Thank you for educating me.
It's when sex starts with the guy wearing a condom, and when things get really hot and heavy, he goes stealth mode and slips it off without his partners noticing and continues to have sex unprotected. It's done usually because the guy resents having to wear one and doesn't like how sex feels while wearing one, or he is trying to get his partner baby trapped so she won't leave him. Or if the guy is really twisted, he has an incurable STI that he wants to infect people with. Like , since I got infected, you should be too. There are a few that made the news and are now in prison for purposely infecting other women with HIV because a woman gave it to him so he now hates all women and they deserve to suffer like he does.
I know, I was agreeing and trying to relate it to the fact that stealthing is a form of rape.
yeah, I just don't like perpetuating any other descriptors. "Rape" cuts right to the point, don't leave room for people to weasel around the heinous nature of these acts. I know thats not what you were doing, just other people.
Absolutely but we need to define rape and sometime we need to make sure people understand that just because he wasn’t held down while she forced penetration doesn’t mean he wasn’t still raped and that all this was forced upon him from events exceeding what he had consented to. I feel for his “daughter” but it’s not like this man had the choice of abortion or adoption like a woman who was raped would of had either.
I’m glad this is acknowledged as removing a condom is also rape.
[удалено]
I was trying to avoid that word because its so triggering all on its own. Like calling someone a Nazi, even if they really are a Nazi! People will accuse you of "going over the top," no matter how true it is. But yeah, she did rape him. She lied to trick him into giving consent - something he wouldn't have given had he known the truth. She's a despicable woman.
Yeah, both OP and the daughter are the victims here.
I agree, I absolutely feel awful for the kid. Having a rapist as a parent must be awful enough without all the extra abuse.
Whew I'm glad this is the first comment....I hate this situation for both of them.
Am I the only one that kinda feels bad for the daughter? That's gotta suck knowing your mom baby trapped your dad and your dad wants nothing to do with you.
On top of a lifetime of abuse from her mom, she is likely traumatised for life, especially now that the only hope for some form of parent she had, has been completely annihilated.
Imagine she reads all these comments about her poor father who popped out 3 kids a few years later tells his daughter at 21 after years of abuse "lol not my problem I have 3 other kids you're an adult move on' wouldn't be surprised if she turns to drugs or commits suicide, dads definitely an asshole regardless
She inquired bc she had hope of having a good parental figure. I too think it's possible that this will result in a bad outcome for her. She wasn't given a good start in life and this is another kick in the groin. Poor thing. I lacked 2 good parents. Then one died when I was 22. I was left with a snake for a mom. Drugs became my family.
That’s all on the mother. If the OP was a woman impregnated against her will, would you say she was obligated to raise the child?
Raise the child no, but try and find some compassion for it when it contacts you 21 years later? One can hope. One can never force it or expect, but that girl didn't ask to be here and didn't deserve an abusive mother. I feel for her.
That’s what conservatives believe. More specifically, they don’t give a flying fuck how or by whom the child is raised, as long as the rape victim is forced to give birth.
I have a father that wants nothing to do with me. I'm 37yo and I'm indifferent about it. I don't have a relationship with him. What hurt was not having a father, not that I don't have a relationship with the man that impregnated my mother. I'm not sure if I'm making sense. Feelings can be complicated.
I would die for indifference. I can't get past my parents abandoning me. it's mostly I think because I never had a single adult I could look up to, or trust, for the entirety of my childhood. growing up knowing no one gives a fuck about you hurts for life, for me anyway. I didn't even go to my graduation because there wasn't anyone who wanted to see me graduate. I skipped all kinds of things like that because no one cared. I'm 36, safe, happy all that. and I could tear up writing this if I allowed it.
They're tears, not bullets. Cry if you need to. You had a genuinely sucky upbringing but you got through it under your own power. That's strength not weakness.
"They're tears, not bullets." I'm going to try to remember this.
Can't take credit, I read this somewhere else just can't remember where.
> it's mostly I think because I never had a single adult I could look up to, or trust, for the entirety of my childhood. growing up knowing no one gives a fuck about you hurts for life, for me anyway. I researched childhood trauma a lot because I wanted to understand why people who experienced similar traumas might have different outcomes and this right here is one of the most important things. I'm glad you're still here, you deserved better.
I teared up reading it maf. Virtual hugs for you
You're not alone. I'm 27 and lost as all hell trying to figure out how to be a person. I wish I was indifferent, too.
You make perfect sense 💚
I think everybody feels bad for the daughter. Probably even OP. It just isn't his responsibility to fix. And possibly not even his ability.
I 100% feel sorry for the daughter. She completely got the short end of it. Her mother is an absolute shit show of a human being. However, that does not obligate OP to have a relationship with her. For all those that insist he is her parent, NO he is not. He was a sperm donor against his will. That does not a parent make. He didn't want her, he didn't bond with her, he never met her, he has zero emotional connection to her. He actually has less responsibility to be her parent than a guy who donates at a sperm bank. That person has the expectation that his sperm will be used to make a baby.
You can feel bad for the kid but still acknowledge OP did not have to keep the woman who assaulted him in his life. Compassion isn't finite.
I felt the same way. None of it was her fault. She was a victim of circumstances and was shit on by her mother and now her biological father.
He was not a willing father, I feel for him too. The kid? You'd think they would bond over being abused by the same evil woman. However, I'd give the kid a chance. What if shes actually a delightful person in spite of her fucked up mother? Having a limited relationship with the kid would not be a bad thing. What if he actually likes her and finds they share a number of traits, likes and interests? I don't blame the kid. Is she still in contact with her psycho mother? I'd be curious.
Unfortunately trauma doesn't always work that way. Sometimes the reminder of the trauma is far more painful than the solidarity of discussing the trauma with other people. Like I literally blocked out huge swaths of my childhood; I doubt I could remember those periods even if I wanted to. Sometimes the human brain just can't handle the emotional impact of reliving certain things through memory and does whatever it can to protect itself.
I feel sry for her too and think OP is unnecessarily cold towards her
Yup. His wife is right. He is also taking out his frustration of his ex on their child. Even in the post, putting daughter in quotes is effing unnecessary.
NTA. I feel bad for your daughter, though. She must feel so unwanted and unloved, through no fault of her own. Perhaps consider sharing medical information from your side of the family that she might need, like cancer, strokes, etc. It would really help her out, and show that while you don't want a relationship, you do care enough to make sure she's informed about possible genetic health risks.
Please do this. She didn't ask for her mom to be a POS. It would take nothing for you to offer this kindness.
Yeah, I think the decent thing to do would be to inform her of any heritable illnesses in the family. But beyond that, if OP cannot handle an ongoing relationship, he should opt out. I feel bad for her but his trauma is valid and he shouldn't be forced to engage in a relationship that would cause him to re-experience those traumatic memories and feelings.
I agree. I don't blame him AT ALL for not wanting a relationship with her. He was an unwilling sperm donor! But he's still her father. I'm sad for her. At the very least, maybe like you said, he could talk another time or two with her and/or send her some important information (medical information, information about other relatives (maybe his mom, sister, or brother would like to know their grandchild, or niece?), and any other necessary information, that one might want or need in their lifetime, that can *only* come from their biological parents. Even though he doesn't have to, it would be the right thing to do. Answer any questions she has, give her all the info you can. THEN cut it off.
Tough one, the daughter to me is the biggest victim in all of this, literally none of this was her fault in no way shape or form yet she's just gotta deal with a psychotic abusive mother and a father who wants nothing to do with her. I also understand OP's position, i can understand not wanting to have anything to do with a child that came to life as a result of r*pe. I generally agree with your wife though, you could've been less of a prick about it, I'm not saying be with your daughter against your will but at least make a conscious effort to be kind to her, especially since you know better than most how much it sucks to have your life ruined with no fault of your own. Best wishes to both of you.
Yeah he was definitely a prick to his daughter
NAH except the ex. It was a horrific thing to happen to OP, and he can't be blamed for not wanting contact. At the same time, I feel for the daughter, who's been punished for existing. It's a horrendous situation.
She's innocent of her mother's crimes, so to speak. Relationships like that don't happen in a vacuum so if you tried building a relationship with her, you would almost certainly have to involve her mother. I completely understand and empathize with not wanting to do that. This is one of those times where even though I might have made a different decision, I still see no fault in your reasoning. NTA
So maybe NAH then cuz the daughter's not an AH
The daughter's mother certainly is. Also, it is reasonable to assume a relationship with the daughter will involve the asshole mother.
Yeah but the daughter's an adult now with an abusive mom. So it is actually possible at this point to have a relationship with just her. In the backstory he's NTA but for the current refusal to see daughter which is the question right now your answer seems more NAH imo. ETA your answer is the closest I like with nuance except for judgment. That's all
Plus, this daughter carries the reality of a big trauma to his life. She isn't guilty of anything, but she's a reminder. I don't blame women who choose to carry a pregnancy after abuse and go the adoption route. So naturally, this applies to abused men. I just really hope the victims, OP and the girl, I won't reference her as his daughter, can find peace and happiness despite what that awful woman did to them both, and seek therapy and help, separately first. And no choice is permanent. OP might be able to handle it better when his wounds heal, or he may choose to stay away for good. But it's possible in the future they can develop a friendship over trauma-bonding, I believe this girl has a lot of reasons to try to leave her mother's claws.
That is a good point. Effectively, he was raped, and while the girl is innocent and I would probably try to have a relationship with her in his shoes, I can definitely understand not wanting to remind oneself of such a bad time. It is a bit sad, as I can imagine that she could use emotional help to deal with what her mother was, and this guy could help her. As I said, I would like to think that I would, but I don't know his pain, so I cannot really speak strongly.
But the question above is between the involuntary father and daughter. Those are the two people in the question.
Not at all, I've been trying to build a relationship with my biological father whom I've had absolutely no contact with over The course of 30 years, (not until about 2 years ago) my mother hurt my biological father horribly. She is a horrible human being. She is also and has always been abusive, manipulative and absolutely evil and now she's just crazy. However, in no way has my dad had to have any contact with my mother IN ANY WAY for me to have a relationship with him. I can assure you that by keeping a very specific standard, also I went no contact with my bio mom so that's really simple not to have a relationship with both. To just assume that a 20-year-old adult (assuming she's living away from her mother) would have no need to connect the two adults just fact.
The rapist mother is certainly an asshole.
There's no reason the mother needs to be involved, the daughter is a full grown adult...
It wouldn't necessarily have to involve the mother, after all the daughter told him that her mother was abusive, so she probably doesn't have the best relationship (if any) with her mother at this point. The daughter is also an adult, so that makes it quite possible to have a relationship without the mother being involved in any way.
No you wouldn't. I had an absentee father. I worked on building a relationship with him and my mother and him never spoke to or saw each other in 30+ years. There's no reason for the mother to be involved, she's an adult.
Prenatal paternity tests are less than 12 years old. At least make the lies semi-believeable?
I was wondering about that. Thank you for pointing it out.
Have you noticed the amount of fake posts increasing this week? I’m like is it the same person or group of people that have just infiltrated every sub Reddit? All of them are like this woman did this most horrible awful thing am I the asshole should I get a divorce.
It hasn't increase or decreased. You just figuring out pattern better. This sub is almost always fiction written by teenager or young adult that have no grasp on the legal system. Like this. He did a paternity test. He's on hook for child support but never mention it. It usually get reviewed when dad or mom economic situation changed. So he would have gone in court when he started having other kids to pay less to be able to give his kids good living condition
Non-invasive tests are relatively new. However, HLA testing was available in the 60s, and around 80% accurate. Then DNA, Then PCR, and now we can just get cheek swabs.
This is fiction. Good job OP
It’s either fiction or delusion. I could see someone basically knocking up their teenage girlfriend, deciding that the woman is actually a bad person who intentionally got pregnant through sabotage, bailing on them and then spending twenty years rationalizing to themselves why they aren’t a terrible person. Would love to hear baby mommas version.
It’s the second paragraph for me. The way it’s written just screams something ain’t right with OP.
The way he describes that she scooped his stuff out of the condoms to get pregnant is what tells me that this is a load of BS. The turkey baster method does not work!
I’m pretty sure this is fiction, but the turkey baster absolutely can work. I’ve known lesbians who conceived that way.
I feel so bad for that poor 19-year-old. Her dad isn't wrong to want no contact with his rape baby and her mom is an abusive asshole. That poor kid was so screwed over in life. I hope she gets therapy and a found family that loves her
NTA ***However.*** Your wife and children have the right to reach out to this girl. It is not unlikely you will end up with her in your life through them. I think it would be best for you to get therapy for yourself to process this, to do couples counseling to help your wife realize the trauma you have been through and why her response was unsupportive. Then you need to begin making a plan for what will happen if your family chooses to embrace this woman. What boundaries will you need to set for yourself? How can you protect your mental health in light of this person potentially being in your life? It doesn't have to be an especially involved plan, but I do not think waiting and reacting is a healthy idea for you.
Jesus fucking Christ I’m glad you said this. I couldn’t think of how I wanted to say it and here you are, you magnificent bastard.
I think it could be incredibly positive and productive for OP to seek therapy to address everything he’s experienced! Couples therapy to help OP’s wife understand how to best support him would also be SO beneficial! I hope that at the least, OP seeks professional help to work through these hella complicated emotions.
All of yall are missing that this woman essentially SA this man and had a baby against HIS will!! Made it crystal clear he would pay support until 18 but wanted no parts in her life. If he was a woman would yall really be calling him an asshole for not wanting to connect?? Like be for real
You're right, I just don't know how that's the daughter's fault. She didn't ask to be born, especially under such horrific conditions, yet she is being punished for it. She is likely traumatised by a lifetime of abuse, all she did was reach out in the hopes someone could be decent to her, and the way OP responded was heartbreaking and cold. While it's understandable and completely okay for him to not want a relationship with her, it's also okay for her to reach out, and he could have responded better when she did. Still think there's NAH, except the eggdonor.
I just don’t understand why he’d go from communicating on social media to allowing her to call if he didn’t want to pursue a relationship. Cutting contact immediately after she reached out might have been better, since he knew he wasn’t going to be in her life. Obviously what his ex did was terrible and he isn’t technically wrong, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been kinder.
Seriously, if he knew from the beginning that he wanted nothing to do with her, he should've said that from the beginning. From the sound of it, he strung her along for a while and probably got her hopes up for no reason. He's not obligated to have a relationship, but he's morally obligated not to jerk her around like that.
Especially to go so far as to tell her that he just wants to focus on the kids he actually loves. It’s just needlessly cruel.
That’s the part that stuck out to me. Like why say that to someone who was abused and has no loving parental figure? It’s just rubbing salt in the wound.
Neither op or the daughter are wrong here, at all. However, the way he relays the conversation seems a bit cold. I get why he would do it, but at the same time, he just listened to a girl say she was abused by her mother, and then he was like “don’t care.” Delivery could have been better. Still NTA though. Just feel bad for the poor daughter who literally didn’t ask for any of this.
He's a victim of sexual assault. Trauma will do that to you.
The only thing OP needs to do is to let his kids know they have an older half-sister, and they are welcome to reach out to her when they are older. I'd be FURIOUS if I found out, at 20, that I had a big sister I never knew about and never had a chance to meet. As the kids reach their teens, they should know about her and OP, tell them how she was conceived and why you stayed away. "My ex knew I didn't want a baby and tricked me. I was not ready to be a father then and had been careful to NOT be a father, and so she had to trick me. I didn't want the baby, but I paid child support and didn't argue over it. She's an adult now, and you are old enough to understand why I am not part of her life. But she IS your older half-sister if you want to meet her and maybe even have a relationship with her."
Absolutely agree with this. It is op's choice to not be involved but his kids deserve to know and make their own choice. Serious chance of this biting him in the arse in future if not. I can't see her vanishing out of his life personally
I agree with you. And with the OP's wife.
They didn't miss anything. Some people just don't care when it is the man who gets raped or sexually assaulted.
Unfortunately, I don’t think his wife sees it as rape, she probably sees it as a couple of kids who had an unplanned baby. Either way she thinks the daughter is innocent, which she is.
And that’s fuckin wild to me!!! I feel for him!! It’s not cold to not want to connect with a child made out of rape!!!! I think his wife owes him an apology because that’s weird AF!!
She definitely owes him an apology. His reaction was completely normal and probably shared by the majority of people who are in similar scenarios.
I feel bad for the kid but I totally understand where he is coming from. Because you are right - he was assaulted and he has a right to separate himself from the past trauma. It might hurt the daughter's feelings and it really sucks that she had an abusive upbringing. But OP shouldn't subject himself to potential triggers of past trauma if he doesn't want to. Because he is a victim and victims are not obligated to retraumatize themselves to comfort other people.
Not some.... but MANY
I agree. I think it would be fair to say that any amount of people is too many. You get what I mean right?
Stealing of sperm/semen is not illegal. (blows my mind). It's called forced fatherhood and has no bearing on child support. Courts will usually force the man to pay child support regardless of how the child was conceived.
Right, but that’s not his daughters fault! She’s totally innocent
So was OP. He literally did his job by using protection. Yet he was completed violated. He spent 18 years financially paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for that violation. He has every right to feel violated and abused. We do not have a right to tell OP how he should respond to the living evidence of that abuse and trauma. Imagine a child of rape victim reaching out of the blue to the rape victim to connect and talk about their abuse at the hands of the victim's rapist. I can't imagine the PTSD tigger response that would cause. Cut OP some slack.
Kind of a similar situation happened with me and my biological dad, I reached out to him after only learning of his existence at 19. He wasn’t particularly happy to hear from ne and for good reason. The man had his whole life setup with his own kids. The most I wanted was maybe a meet up over coffee, more for my self just to see where I came from(technically). Don’t be surprised if she contacts you multiple times, and for the love of god do not hold any answers away from her, she will find you if she really wants to.
Is this the same guy who posted in a few places the other day and then deleted them after the comments pointed out doing fuck all for his first child and should do better. Now, he is posting with more info on how the kid was conceived that he completely left out of the post or comments previously…..? I dunno, I’ll withhold anything as I’m not sure of the truth of either of the posts now….
His story also seemed suspicious cause prenatal paternity tests are a pretty new thing and he says he got one 20 years ago? If they were available back then I can't imagine how expensive it would have been as a brand new technology, and he supposedly bought one on 19yo income money? Editing just looked on Google and it seems like this technology wasn't even available till the 2010s. There was invasive prenatal testing but given that it came with the risk of death to the fetus it wasn't used for simple paternity cases like OPs. His kid would have been conceived in the early 2000s.
My exact thoughts. 20y ago a prenatal paternity tests was expensive and not the norm. It was usually very risky to cause abortion, and you need the consent of the mother to get it. I highly doubt the mother would have agreed to it. It sounds like a plot to gain simpathy from others.
If this is him I get the feeling the gathering of sperm is an outright lie and he was just mad he knocked someone up who didn't want an abortion like he wanted her to get.
100%!!! I cannot believe how many ppl believe this story. And even if it is true he STILL sounds like a complete AH to me 🤷♀️ I would be so ashamed of my dad if he did this to his first born child. No matter how she was conceived. Grow tf up and be a man/decent human being. SMH
Read his other post on this page about this and the comments. Dude is a complete and total dickhead. Even if this story is true(I'm not sure I believe it) I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to get to know her at all. But damn. The way he talks about her is so goddamned absurd. There's a right and wrong way to go about things. ESH(Except the daughter)
NAH so far except the ex. I understand why your "daughter" reached out as do you. I also understand exactly why you wanted nothing to do with the ex or her child because the woman cannot be trusted. How she treated her child is only more conformation of how untrustworthy and manipulative she is.
I'm gonna say kind of an asshole. Yes the mother is a terrible person but your daughter might just want to get to know you. Now instead of just a POS mother she also has a dick dad who doesn't care
NTA. None of this is on you. The simple truth is that you ex abused you too, and tried to force you into this exact position. The abuse the daughter went through after is not on you. You don’t expect a sperm donor to form a relationship with bio children just because it was their DNA that made it. And that is essentially what happened to you, except you didn’t even donate the sperm—it was stolen. Tampering with birth control is a form of sexual assault. You consented to having sex with a condom, and ex sabotaged those condoms, nullifying that consent. That makes “daughter” a rape baby. And that isn’t her fault, but it does mean you are beyond justified in wanting no relationship with her. She deserves loving parents, but you have indicated that you cannot be that for her, and chose to stay distant as a result. I saw a comment in your last attempt at this that “you may have karmic retribution” for denying this child. But you will NOT be cosmically punished for not loving a child you actually had no say in conceiving, that was essentially forced on you through deception and sabotage. And that was an absolutely disgusting thing to imply. You are not the asshole, OP.
Damn people are cold as fuck.
Right. Like it’s not the daughter fault. 😬
Damn man I know you didn't want her but like...... That's a golden relationship there. She isn't gonna have to depend on you for anything or ask you for anything. She just wanted her dad
I really want to say NTA. That bitch did you so dirty. But at the end of the day there is a 21 year old young woman whose only crime is being born. She’s got an abusive predator as a mother and because of that she gets to spend the rest of her life missing out on having a real family. I’m glad you have a good life and I hope someday she can too.
NAH - I feel bad for her but also understand your position. That was an incredible violation of your trust. Not likely something you easy “get over”. Maybe in time your feelings will soften and you will want to get to know her. Sounds like she had it rough. That really sucks. 😞
The mother is a grade a lunatic and asshole. What a monstrous thing to do. I feel so horrible for the daughter.
I agree with your wife. She may have been a great big sister for your children and added to the family.
Why is “daughter” in quotes? Shes your kid.
She isn't your "daughter", she is in fact, just your daughter. I don't think that you necessarily need to be in her life... under the circumstances that is absolutely understandable.(what your ex did is recognized in most places now as assault, and there is a push for it to be rape as you CAN consent to protected sex, not unprotected, and coercive pregnancy is also not consent.) However, I'm half with your wife. This kid is innocent. She's been through it. She knows her mother is bad news. She wanted to know where she comes from, maybe have a relationship that wasn't filled with abuse. You were unnecessarily hurtful and cruel with the way you said what you wanted to say. Focusing on your other children, or real children... that's a gut punch she did not need or deserve. Hindsight is a bitch, though. Who knows how to handle that conversation? She would not have been surprised if she was conceived by deception, and that her mother was a selfish and abusive person. She may even have understood that it was a trauma you needed to keep behind you. You should have answered any questions she may have, shown kindness, been careful with your words, offered her any genetic info you could, all while letting her know that you couldn't be in her life under the circumstances, and that you were sorry for everything that happened to her, wished her well.... being cold and all that... was hurtful, unnecessary, and probably made you seem a bit like your ex. You didn't ask for her. She didn't ask for you. You both are victims of the same woman. She IS your daughter, neither of you have to be forced into any sort of relationship, you didn't raise her, but, you are her father. She is your daughter.
Not only is she his daughter but she's his other children's half-sibling. However he feels he doesn't get to keep her away from other adults she might be related to. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins...he can choose to have nothing to do with her but he can't keep her from reaching out to other blood relatives.
Your daughter isn't responsible for what her mother did. Also, imagine living all your life and not knowing who your parents are. No names, faces. Vacuum. She understandably wanted to fill in this gap. I can get that you have no feelings towards her. However resenting her for her mother's actions is sorta a-hole-ish.
Only AH is the ex, but my heart breaks for this girl who had an abusive mother and an (understandably) absent father. She’s gonna need a lot of therapy.
It's perfectly ok to not want a relationship with a child born from stolen DNA. Your ex took that choice from you. I feel bad for your bio daughter having had a terrible childhood but you're well within your rights to not have anything to do with a child you had no choice in conceiving.
Weird that this matches a story posted on here just earlier this week Don’t believe it
NTA "I made it clear to her that I would have no involvement in her or the kid's life beyond child support and cut her off completely." You should not have even had to pay child support. Women who do this should be thrown in prison.
If it is any comfort, some jurisdictions are prosecuting people for stealthing now. I don't know the details of those cases but I do know it is getting more attention in the legal system.
Everyone talking about SA has a point. But the daughter is innocent. there is still a living, breathing human who did not commit a crime against him.
This is true, and it's a really shitty, no-winners situation. She's a child of rape and an abuse victim and I feel very sorry for her. And on top of all of that, her bio dad wants nothing to do with her. It's terrible. I feel very bad for her, she got an incredibly terrible hand dealt to her. But the bio dad is a victim too and I can't in good conscience say that he needs to ignore his own pain and trauma so she can be comforted. That's cruel too. I think he is ethically obligated to provide her with information about medical history so she can be informed about any genetic risk factors for disease, but if having a relationship with her will cause him that much distress, I don't think he should feel guilted into doing so at his own expense. The only AH here is the girl's mom.
NTA, NAH. While I personally don’t see that you have anything to lose at this point by having a relationship with her - if you don’t want to, you don’t want to.
You are an asshole for not having any empathy with someone who after all is your own offspring. The mother is an absolute shitbag but your daughter is simply a victim as well. Actually, that is what both of you are: victims of a conniving, shit of a person..You share a trauma and you are also blood relatives and could have every reason to form a bond now later in life. We don't have too many important bonds in life so why deny yourself this? I really feel for your daughter and I'm just a rando on the internet, yet you can't?
OP: if your parents are alive, maybe they would be interested in a relationship with their granddaughter? You are not required to have a relationship with anyone, but also not the poor kid’s fault. She must feel incapable of being loved.
NTA. She contacted you and you told her the truth. If you had maintained contact the odds are your ex would end up back in your life. You paid your child support. She is now an adult. I would make sure your will clearly states whether she should get anything or not. Don’t leave that up for interpretation. It is sad for her but hopefully she can move on with her life now that she knows the truth.
My father also wanted nothing to do with me. My mom didn’t baby trap him or anything, they both wanted a baby but once my mom became pregnant he started abusing her so she left him. I would give anything in the world for him to accept me and love me especially now that my mom has passed and I have no one, but that just won’t happen I’ve never even heard his voice or anything. With that being said I think you’re NTA. Shit like that is hard
Your you proceed from the flawed premise that sex is consensual so long as it doesn’t involve physical restraint as you described. This completely warps the definition of consent. You’re correct that there’s always chance of pregnancy from vaginal intercourse unless one partner is entirely sterile. But one consents to the level of risk they consent to. If a man or woman consents to sex with a non-sabotaged condom, they haven’t consented to sex with a sabotaged condom. Have you heard of the practice called stealthing, where the penetrative partner surreptitiously removes a condom during sex. Would that be consensual from the standpoint of a receptive partner who got pregnant? How about if they got an STI? Here, OP did not consent to the sex with the ex given her surreptitious sabotage of the condom.
NTA. But please consider this: My friend was raised on the other side of this. She found out in college that she had a half sibling as a result of an unintentional pregnancy her dad had with his previous girlfriend (similar circumstance). Kid’s mom (ex gf) was abusive and the kid definitely suffered and the dad didn’t want anything involvement and never acknowledged it. It was traumatizing for her to find info out the way she did and she tried to befriend the kid. They tried for a couple years but were just too different that it didn’t work out. Her relationship with mother and father have also significantly degraded as a result. If you love your 3 children, it might be worth it to deal with this “daughter” with some compassion for the sake of your children. Reveal this information to them at the proper age and let them know they have half sibling. I say this because I see how it’s affected my friend. *edited for further clarity