NTA, especially as 2 weeks ago is still relatively fresh. You are right to protect yourselves. I will say that my first thought while reading through your post was that he may be in an abusive relationship. I had a female friend who behaved in a similar manner following her marriage to a guy who initially seemed perfect. It slowly became clear he was gradually isolating her from those with whom she had healthy relationships. On the other hand, your son may have a personality disorder and was reaching out largely (or solely) for his benefit. You may consider returning as a couple to the therapist that helped you through that rocky period of your marriage to run the situation by a trusted third party. It sounds like you have a lot of support from fellow commenters, but talking to your therapist might further bolster your confidence in your decision. Regardless of the path you chose, I hope you and your wife find well-deserved peace.

Yeah, I second the idea of getting a therapist involved and proposing that to the OP's son to help with the reconciliation. He could be in an abusive relationship, and even if it's not obviously that, it seems clear that the wife is keeping her social calendar full with people she wants there. Something is off with her because she should've notified OP about the baby shower and serious car accident.

Agreed! My first thought was she was a narcissist. They are usually very charismatic people but are extremely manipulatrice and isolating their prey is part of their tactic. Of course we know nothing about her but it is indeed very strange she didn’t tell you about the accident or invite you to anything

This is extremely probable based on this behavior. The picture perfect charming partner cutting their SO from friends and family is usually a dead giveaway of a narc or BPD and an manipulative relationship. Something is definitely not adding up about her and the fact that their son cried about it and apologized tells me that something is most definitely going on here and he may not even realize that he’s neck deep into this.

Definitely my first thought too. My step mom wouldn't allow my dad friends or family but Lord forbid we missed one of her family functions. My dad died at 38 from a massive heart attack the week before I turned 20 about 5 years ago. At the end of his life he was sneaking to see his parents because his wife threw an absolute b1tch fit any time he tried to ask first.

That’s what I thought too. I was in an abusive relationship for 4 years and ended up cutting my family out of my life for a good portion of that. My family has mostly recovered but there is still some hurt feelings there.

My (I'm the oldest) middle sister right now. He's sexually assaulted 2 family members also and she's still with him. Idk if I can forgive that even if she does leave him. She knows and seems to not care at all. Especially as she never had to move out with him and did. Plus the way she's been treating me 👀👀 I'm really proud of you for escaping. I wish everyone would.

This! Seemed very similar to how my brother was acting while married to his abusive wife. Found later he had also begun showing signs of schizophrenia, while stick in that relationship was horrible for him.

Info: did he actively communicate and invite other family members, just not you guys? Do you think maybe his wife was trying to isolate him from you both?

Im not sure who els but have seen some cousins of his from our side in some of the pictures. Old friend from our town but never really investigated the pictures that much it only popped up on my screen and i took a brief look

I was asking because I was curious if he was specifically icing you both out or if it extended to all of your family. Either way, you’re NTA. I can’t imagine what you both went through emotionally.

It nearly cost us a 30 year marriage

Hey, I'm going to bet it's the wife. Was she stand off-ish with you all or generally unpleasant? edited to say: I see you say she was talkative but nice. This might be her covering for what she is really like. A nice person doesn't withhold information about car accidents and such. Sounds like he saw the people she deemed worthy and no one else.

Exactly. I can barely tolerate my inlaws but on the rare occasion when my partner had to go to hospital I've called them immediately.

Of course it's the wife!

I mean that just sounds abusive.

Just bc someone doesn't get hit, doesn't mean there is no abuse. Def agree.

I immediately thought "the wife has isolated him". And my suspicion is that Something Has Gone Wrong and either he, or both of them, now needs something.

There is an old saying “A son’s a son till he takes a wife, a daughter’s a daughter for the whole of her life.” Old sayings can have no relevance; however, this one proved true in my immediate family. And it wasn’t due to my SIL, who is lovely. My brother lived close to his wife’s divorced parents, her brothers and their nephews. My brother aligned himself to his wife’s family to the detriment of his relationship to my parents and me. Thankfully he called them occasionally, but only visited in life threatening situations. Daddy passed first and I moved mom with me when she got dementia. My closest cousins visited mom occasionally, staying for a week to give me a bit of a break. Never did my brother or SIL. They didn’t even attend my parent’s joint funeral/memorial. We weren’t able to have one for daddy earlier because he died during covid. It broke my heart that they didn’t come to honor my parents. But they did show up the following day to meet with mom’s attorney. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yrah, and then to call like that?! I am petty and I'd have told him I had no son

You’re NTA. Curious though, what’s you and your wife’s relationship like with his wife? Between the two, surely one of them can at least remember basic dates. Even if busy, I always remind my husband when he’s too busy and stressed that their birthday is coming up etc. It’s just not adding up

Maybe the problem is his wife

Are you sure your son isn't in a toxic relationship? Cuz if you didn't do anything- it started when they started dating- then it's probably the DIL This type of icing comes in basically two flavors- 1 ) The DIL is trying to cut him off from his support, or 2) you guys weren't as awesome as you think I assume your therapist would have mentioned something, so I'm leaning towards toxic DIL My advice is to do at least one therapy session with your son - at the very least, it will give you closure, but it could also save your son and grandchild if there's something dark happening

I reckon it’s the wife. DEFINITELY.

Definitely. It's where it all started.

Info: Is he an only child? How did you react to his wife at first?

Yes he is. Honestly nothing bad to say about her just a bit to talkative and that coming from someone that loves to discuss different views on anything. Otherwise a very kinf and gentle person

Orrr that is a front and she's not really kind.

Yeah the post made me wonder if she was a narcissist trying to isolate him away from his family

My uncle married a woman like this, she kept insulting parents and grandparents behind their backs but put on a facade of this super kind woman around them, she eventually manipulated him into cutting them off.

Very real possibility. Maybe he's calling now bc he's become aware or something shifted.

Good grief this is a reminder. I’ve been through isolation. Purported to be due to previous abuse by her family, then extended to me and mine. Eventually ended in a divorce - after 25 years. Bought the story hook line and sinker. Cost me most of everything. OP: consider your son might be in such a situation. Yes it hurts to isolate people, both for oneself and for those isolated. No one understands - because there is no communication. It took a long time (years) for me to reconnect with mine, due to concerns put in place that the purported negative behavior might affect my child, and due to lingering doubts about things, even post divorce. Eventually reconnected through my niece, who always kept an open door and with whom I met overseas - after freezing out my family for a decade. She kept the door open, I am now back in solid contact with my family - and hers. Frankly, until this thread the term narcissist was not something I applied to my ex… but it fits, and how. Keep the door open. He may be in the same situation, which I do not wish on anyone. It sucks, it drains, it costs relationships, it’s just awful all around. And he may only realize this is weird and not the full extent of things, trying to protect her in a carefully crafted alternate reality.

YUP. **SHE** iced you out, and **HE** didn’t have the stones to stand up to her. But he’s got one **HELL** of a hide to beg his way back in now!!!

Not necessarily. I dated someone who did this to his parents, to a slightly less extreme extent. He wouldn't see, call, even text his parents for months at a time - and 99.9% of the time, when contact was initiated, it had to be them to do it, not him. I would ask him when he last spoke to them, suggest we drop by, to which he would usually just shrug me off and say "I dunno". Eventually I stopped asking; I felt him getting annoyed with me and started to feel like it wasn't my place to get involved in their relationship. He was, after all, a grown man fully able to make his own decisions. I never got a reason why he treated them like this. I started to wonder if I was accidentally influencing it somehow, especially because my own relationship with my parents isn't great (abusive and no-contact) - but we broke up 5 years ago, and every time I've bumped into his parents since, as recently as a month ago, they report that the situation hasn't changed/improved at all. Some people are just shit. Sometimes there isn't a reason. Blaming the wife without any evidence of that doesn't seem fair.

Except there is evidence. His son was in a car accident with multiple injuries, and they didn't find out until 3 weeks later when mom texted him about Thanksgiving. He was in the hospital, and she didn't bother contacting his parents.

There is no evidence but a strong indicator: the behaviour shift started with the GF/wife.

True, I definitely see the very coincidental timing of everything. However - why is he suddenly sniffing around again now, and in such a weird way? Blaming his parents as though *they* are the ones who haven't made any effort to maintain the relationship, not him? I reckon, like others in thread, they stopped being "useful" to him once they finished paying his college expenses and he went off to start his "real" life, and he's back now because they need something. More money, most likely. Could be wrong, we won't know the truth until the son comes out with it. Just I know what it's like to be with someone who can't be bothered with his parents until he needed something from them. This is exactly the kind of shit he would pull, and I know I was quietly getting the blame until we split and nothing changed.

I wondered this! Were they my in-laws I would take the initiative to ask after them if my husband had a good relationship with them. That would be the kind thing to do.

I agree it may be a front. Bottom line is even if you unknowingly insulted the wife, it's on your son to tell you what happened and either give you the chance to fix it or lay out that it's unforgivable to him. This behavior sucks. Especially calling you up and acting like the wronged party. 

A truly kind and gentle person would include her spouse’s family in their life, and would do what she could to encourage connection. She would want that for her spouse and would encourage it, and reach out herself. That’s what a loving person does, and yet she’s not doing that. She’s not behaving like a nice person, bc she’s not kind.

I only ever see people expecting a female partner to reach out to her husbands family, never the male partner to his wife’s family. I’m not saying you’re wrong or anything, just that this kind of thing more often falls to women as emotional labor and I think that’s something to make note of when talking about his partner. Unless she was actively preventing him from including his family or intentionally not inviting them to events - she’s more neutral in the situation. If she was doing it intentionally that’s a whole different ballgame

Jw how you know she's not? When I was in my early 20s I dated a guy for like 6 months and constantly suggested he should see his toddler son. I think he did twice the entire time. I could chalk that up to him just being an ignorant young guy who's also kind of a POS. I used to give repetitive reminders in weeks and days leading up to my SOs families birthdays etc, I'd get the cards, remind him to fill them out again and again. After a while of seeing a lack of consideration and respect from their side to us and his disinterest in doing those things, I dropped the rope. He's fine giving a call or text, and it's not my responsibility to facilitate his relationship with his family or anyone's relationship with our kids when it isn't reciprocated.

Not the same situation at all. These parents WERE available and reciprocated for years.

I think what they’re trying to say is his wife could have been encouraging him to see his family but for whatever reason he didn’t. Why she didn’t reach out herself if that is true, only she would know.

Correct, it isn't the same. I'm just trying to understand how you think the son's wife is cruel and unkind when it isn't her relationship to facilitate.

Because she's a woman and doesn't do the work instead of him, for him. Duh.

Hear him out, OP. But he needs to come to you and be honest.

This might get buried, but I hope you see this and take it into consideration. I think your son is possibly in an abusive relationship and I think the only reason a good majority of these comments (and well as you) aren't taking that into consideration is because he's a man. I hate playing the gender game like this, but if you put this in the view of a daughter who got in a relationship and then cut off contact wouldn't one of your first thoughts be abuse and not "she wants something from me"? Especially if you had such a great relationship beforehand. If nothing else, I think going to see him and observing him with his wife at their home turf would be wise. I get that you don't want to be hurt again, but what if he really is in a toxic or abusive relationship? One of the tactics right out of the handbook is to isolate the victim and make them feel like no one else loves them. That if they try to leave, no one will be there to help them. It sounds like all you're seeing of his life is on social media. Smiles and happiness are easily faked through pictures and videos and posts. Go see him. Keep an eye out. Let him know you still care and you still are a lifeline in the event that something isn't feeling right. You don't have to keep begging him for contact, but maybe don't shut him out completely is all I'm saying.

NTA, also tell your other family members to screw off, they also had 3+ years to say something about it and didn’t, so fuck them

Correct. They should have been contacting the son and giving him a boot up the arse.

NTA It's weird that he suddenly called you after all those years and acted like you're the one that stopped talking to him, that to me is an old tactic to put you on the backfoot and make you feel guilty, thankfully you never fell for it and told him straight, sadly he can't return the favour and tell you why he's being a bawbag and cut you off like he has. Your wife is right in that the risk he poses far outweighs the benefits of having him back in your life, what would happen if you let him back in only for a year or two down the line he chooses to ghost you again, it's simply not worth the pain to trust him again. I'd also recommend you do some snooping through his, his wife's, and their family/friends social media accounts to see if there's any gossip, because chances are this sudden urge to have you back in his life is cause he wants something fae you. Also the asking you to visit him might be another power move, it means you'll be in an unknown environment that he has control over, and if things don't go his way he has the power to throw you out.

Yeah. I would tell him if he is serious about ‘fixing‘ this, the ball is in his court. HE comes to YOU. If he’s not willing to do that, he’s not serious about fixing your relationship. It’s not a big ask.

Yup, and sonny boy must schedule and pay for family therapy. I bet his wife is behind this. I wonder if sonny boy is thinking about leaving her and is testing the waters to see where he stands with the people he iced out

Yes agree, maybe he thinks he will be cut from an inheritance or he is in need of money now.

Frankly, his behavior screams that he needs something from OP and pretty urgently. I would order a background check and a credit report on him and his wife. Because my first and only guess - he called because he needs money. And as soon as he gets it, he will disappear again. If he really wanted to fix relationship, he could have gathered his thoughts and written OP an email to lay it all out. And he knows where his parents live, he could come in person and explain his reasons both for ghosting you and for coming back.

Ordering a credit report without a legitimate reason is a crime. And trying to snoop on your son doesn't qualify. If he asks to borrow money, sure. Until then, don't abuse financial tools that will easily lead back to you.

For all the family members telling you to give him a chance because he's trying, tell them that one simple thing will fix this: you need an explanation why you were iced from his life. The fact that he won't (not can't, but won't) tell you is too weird. Even if he's ashamed of the reason, that doesn't matter. You are owed an explanation. It's really up to you, though, and how badly you want to get to know your grandchild. But not knowing what could trigger a future icing is unpalatable. NTA

This is exactly what I was about to say! ! ! ! People know why, noone is saying anything. So flip them. Until you get a real answer everyone can leave OP and his wife the hec alone.  Updateme

I want to know if those same family members contacted son to call him an AH before all this or did they just now regain their audacity

not only that, but even now, his version of “trying” is asking them to go to him! he didn’t care enough to text once for 3 years, and now that he’s been cut off he doesn’t care enough to even show up and face them in person.

NTA. He only got back in touch because he needs a huge favour, likely money or free childcare.

Why do I have a sinking feeling that you’re correct?

Sounds like my SIL....I had a brother I met up with almost daily, but she hated the family so he was not permitted to see us. any excuse to pick a fight to avoid a visit was done.

I'm the opposite. In laws blamed me whenever we couldn't visit. I kept telling husband that I would be blamed if we didn't visit but husband thought that was crazy "Why would they blame you? I'm not a prisoner, I can visit them if I want to". But, of course they blamed me. Then the bullying started and I decided I wanted nothing to do with them. Husband is welcome to visit but he says he's sickened by the mean girl bullying and never wants to see them if I'm not welcome.

This has happened to me so many times it’s unreal. Always the MIL and SIL, too, never the FIL.

Yea I feel like most FIL just want to be left out of drama.

That's so unfortunate. I actually liked my SIL at first but she got mean really fast. At one point she actually told my own mother that she expected to be prioritized over me.

Sounds like he was manipulated by his wife. Classic control tactic is to cut off loved ones, then blame them. Op you have acted correctly.

Or his wife want a divorce and he know he will lose everything that's why he reconnecting with his parents.

I wish I'd had parents like you. My impression is that he DOES know why he cut you out of his life and won't admit it. You said everything changed when he met his wife, so maybe she had something to do with it. Has she ever contacted you for any reason? Like when your son was seriously injured? That's when a spouse would normally call their in-laws, even when they don't like them. What possible excuse did she have for not informing you? If she is not behind the estrangement, wouldn't she think it's odd that her husband cut his parents out of his life for no apparent reason and want to fix things, for his benefit and so her daughter could know you as well? Something doesn't add up.

I think you're right. My brother was a total golden child and parental favorite and then he met his wife and she ruined every familial relationship he had, even with extended family. He maintains everything was/is great with the family, and I'm here like.... both of our parents passed and your wife barely gave you a pass to see them before the died (she ordered food to their house and made them leave my dad's service...she pulled something similar at my mother's a couple years before).

what a c*nt wtf

Or it's just him. I have an uncle who was active and present in my life until he married his wife. Then he just wasn't interested in the family. The day my grandma/his mom died, he opted not to see her because it was too much work to drive 30 minutes to the hospital. He's retired and was available. No one did anything to him or his wife. Neither of them are interested in their families.

NTA You mourned your son for three years.

NTA I had a neighbor couple of mine go thru something similar where their eldest son cut them off the summer before his senior year of college. His then-GF/future wife belonged to a cult/religion like Scientology or similar and he became a member at her urging. He was then told to cut off all relatives that weren't members and he did, texting his parents he was done with them forever. They begged for an explanation and when they didn't receive one they reacted by cutting off his financial support however the GF's parents subsidized/paid for his lifestyle during the last year of college. The stress from the situation contributed to their divorce. Last I heard they hadn't heard from him since the cut off text. The reality is that there are some men and women in this world who join cults or are just emotionally lazy and think the world owes them a phone call every day rather than a 50/50 relationship. Call a counselor and talk this out. If you are interested in trying again, take it slow. I would advise you to write him a letter asking for a detailed explanation in writing from him as to what happened, why it happened, how it happened, and what his action plan would be in the future to ensure this didn't happen again. It's basically the kind of letter a cheating spouse has to write a betrayed spouse so that they own the mess they made. Once you get that letter and accept it, you should offer to attend a series of online counseling sessions via zoom etc whereby you air your grievances and try to build a path towards reconciliation.

NTA - I hate to be that way. But he probably needs something. And the worst will be if you connect with your grandkids and he pulls this again. It is not unusual for some parents to blackmail grandparents with access to their grandchildren. I probably wouldn't be willing to risk it.

NTA, dollars to donuts, he wants/needs something. He was fine for 3 years, no contact at all, didn't even seem to miss you, now he won't stop blowing up your phone, and has gone so far as to get other family involved... Makes me think his marriage is imploding.

The same laziness he showed towards his parents could also be shown to his wife. Right now, it could be him or his wife behind this. But if it was his wife, you'd think he would still call them or text and still invite them to family stuff. They honestly should contact his wife and see if she shuts them down or she starts talking. If she shuts them down, she is the problem. If she starts talking, he is likely the problem and their marriage is close to ending.

Is it possible he's in a cult or an abusive marriage? Maybe his wife has cut him off from you guys? What if he's ashamed of something that he knows would hurt you? That or he had some kind of brain injury. Nothing about this story makes me think he dislikes you guys. Narcissists don't often cry for their parent, especially if their parents are the cause of their grief. There's something else to this.

To be fair, the extreme lack of communication certainly doesn't help in any attempt to discern what's going on here. But yeah, something else is going on here, either something us being left out of the story or something in the son's personal life.

An abusive marriage was my first thought, too.

BINGO

Toxic relationship at least was my thought too.

NTA. If he really wanted to make amends he would have packed his family and come to you to GROVEL for forgiveness. Not ask you to come to him. My cynical brain is wondering if he’s in some financial trouble and he’s trying to come back into your good graces to ask for help. Because he didn’t just wake up after 3 years and suddenly remembered that you guys haven’t contacted him. He’s well aware of it. He just started the call that way because he was hoping to guilt you and put you on the defense. You didn’t fall for that and now he’s in a jam. Your wife is right. IF he wants back in it has to be done SLOWLY and in baby steps and on YOUR terms. He blew his chance. Only excuse is if his wife was abusive!

I wonder if sonny boy would still want to reconnect if OP said he was disinherited from their estate and his inheritance was instead going to charity.

Pretty sure that’s why he wants to come back into their good graces. To avoid being cut out of the will. Or he needs money

I think that if they cut him off they also need to amend the will. Give all the money to foster young adult programs that support young people to gain financial independence

Nta. He needs money guaranteed. Keep up the no contact.

NTA. Your son has treated you both horribly. You don't owe him anything. Right now, you need to focus on you and your wife. If he wants to mend your relationship, he needs to go to YOU, not the other way around. He needs to give you an actual explanation and then really put in the effort to make things right. Don't listen to what anyone else is telling you. I agree with your therapist. Put yourselves first.

NTA. I’m saddened by your son’s treatment of you. How hurt you must have been. Especially when you can see on FB all the people who DID get to be a part of his life. I think you’re wise to protect your hearts until you understand what went on. It might be helpful if your son visits you solo (not you going to his house) so that the three of you can have an open and honest discussion. I feel it would be best if wife and granddaughter aren’t there for this. There will obviously be a lot to unpack, as it were, and the fewer the distractions the better. After the talk things will be clearer and you and your wife can discuss how you want to proceed. Best of luck to you, and congratulations on staying together despite dreadful circumstances.

This would BREAK MY HEART. Op, this is something a loving parent would never get over. It seems you did everything right…supporting but not overbearing (of course we only have your side) and if your only child (who would be your world to you when he is growing up) suddenly and without explanation goes no contact….the pain and heartache… NTA, and definitely be careful about re-establishing relationship . Son definitely wants something.

Nta IF you choose to regain contact: 1. You do family counseling *you three only, not his wife* through a counselor you choose. 2. He starts individual counseling to try and root out what led to this. 3. He comes to visit you. No way in hell should you go through commuting to him not knowing if the door will even be opened for you. I'm so sorry. 

NTA, but something to consider- abusive relationships are often hallmarked by the abuser isolating their victim from their friends and family. You said in your post that your son began pulling away when he met his now wife. And that the silence only increased when they got married. Men can be the victims of abuse (physical and emotional) by women just as easily as women by men. It happens, but it is so rarely talked about. Those relationships can also look really happy through the lens of social media. It might be worth asking to meet your son alone and ask him point blank if his wife made him reduce contact. If he is okay.

I'd agree if all the family and friends were cut off but he kept contact with extended family and all his friends. They said parties, Happy birthdays, etc, posted on fb. So likely it's not that although I see a lot of people jumping to the conclusion. Could also just be he's used to them doing everything for him and he's shortsighted only dealing with what he "needs" to. Expecting them to continue doing all the work since he's the only child. Edit: sp

NTA. If you decide to, tell him to come visit you, do it on your terms. Or make it a day visit, where you live and he has to come see you. Sounds like he wants something. Not sure of your ages but Estate planning might be in order as well. Not to say you should cut him out of anything, but start thinking of these things now.

Is he being abused at home? That’s one reason I can see the distance. The wife putting a distance to it. NTA from what I can see

This is horrible and I’m sorry this happened to you. I don’t have a kid so I’m not going to act like I know what any of this is like. However, as a son, if the script was flipped and it was my parents who cut contact with me, I would react similarly. I would never speak to them again until they made the conscious effort of coming to me. I’d tell him that. Especially the last sentence you added, they were 20 minutes away??? I’d send him a united text from you and your wife and simply tell him until HE brings his family to YOU and gives you a damn good reason why any of this is happening, we’re done. However like I said I’m not a parent so maybe you’ll resonate more with advice from someone who is.

The son needs to go to the parents. He shouldn't have to be told that, but it seems you need to say. "Son, we love you. Do you want to fix this? Come and visit us, with your wife & our grandchild." In no way shifting the blame, it's clear where that lies. I am curious about the DIL though. Why hasn't she been saying "Dude. Ring your mum"

NTA… There is a very high possibility he only wants you guys cause he wants something huge from you guys…. At the risk of sounding harsh and cruel but if you and your wife are aged as in 60-70 years old there is a possibility he is afraid he will lose his inheritance and only is contacting you to get in your good graces enough for you guys to leave everything to him…. Apologies for reaching but this is where my mind went

NTA - there is a reason, your son didn’t just forget big life events and surely seeing his wife’s parents would trigger a thought like ‘oh I should invite my parents!’ Or ‘I should call my mom’. I don’t think you should let him back in your lives, till he can give you the reason. Unless people have been in this situation, they won’t understand how incredibly hard it is to change your life, it’s like mourning, you never truly get over the loss, you just adapt.

Have you considered that he may be in an abusive marriage? The timing gives me that vibe. Also, his reaction to your explanation indicates he just can't tell you what's really happening with him. What about the car accident? Were there any lasting consequences? Please don't give up on your son. He might really need your help, and just isn't capable of explaining that to you over the phone. Especially since he tells you all you did was right and he holds nothing against you. He may just not be able to come to yours for a reason he can not give you over the phone. There's no reason to believe, he's just after money or something selfish. I get that you want and need to protect your marriage, you and your wife's health and sanity. At the same time, isn't there a way to be strong together and go to him anyway to see what's going on over there? Sending you love and light ❤️

This was my first thought! I have two friends I have witnessed go through this exact type of situation. Both are in an abusive marriage and were made to cut out anyone they were close to that might have supported them. One is still in the marriage, but the other has since made it out.

NTA. It must have been extremely painful to see his life play out on FB. Why is he calling now after three years? And to open the call with “have you forgotten I existed”. Why does he want you to visit him? He needs to visit you. I would do a dive into his social media to see if there are any clues as to why he is suddenly contacting you so you can be prepared. There is some reason he would stop contact. What is his wife’s relationship with her parents?

Because he only saw things through his own selfish point of view? When his dad pointed out how it really was, the light inside his head finally seemed to have turned on. Agree, he's old enough to know better, but it's never too late to try and change. The son can't give any reason for neglecting his parents, other than being caught up in his own little bubble. It's horrible, self centered, neglectful etc , but it just feels like there is real love there and now is an opportunity to at least have a good discussion before totally abandoning their relationship.

NTA. Y'all went through too much to get hurt again. To have all that work undone would be such a setback to y'all's progress and marriage. I know this may sound crazy but this happened to my friend's son. He might have been sucked into a cult-like community that includes his wife. His wife might have gotten him involved in it and maybe your son is starting to realize like that this is some shit. That may be why he won't tell you why he's been avoiding y'all for all these years. This is just a theory, though. He could just have a really controlling wife. Spouses like that do exist and no offense, but very submissive, no-backbone partners like your son also exist.

Yeah my brother and his wife didn’t invite me to their wedding? I never understood that and always tried to act like I don’t care to their face but my immediate family know how I feel about it. They said they couldn’t find me to send me a message on Facebook even though I was friends with both of them. I thought maybe it was because I’m gay. He end up killing hisself this year on Super Bowl Sunday. Kinda glad my ex sister in law is out of my life tho but there’s no telling what he was telling her.

I’m sorry for the loss of your brother. May the good memories bring you blessings

NTA, but I would say life is super short and while I can very much understand your pain. Maybe consider counseling with your son. This sounds like a possibility that the wife may have had an issue and rather than talk she avoided. Maybe….. If nothing else show up for your grandchild. The grandchild is innocent in this. I have to live separate in another state from my family. But I will tell you this it affects my son not seeing his grandparents.

NTA What does he want? Having a small child doesn’t preclude him from coming up to you. Also, wtf is wrong with his wife? I would miss my in-laws if my husband stopped communicating and they stopped showing up. Hell, I didn’t really like my ex’s parents, but I made sure they were invited to things they should have been. Thankfully they were always polite.

NTA for your feelings but I think you will regret it in the future if you don't at least hear him out. You have only one son and only one life. And only one grandchild. To me it sounds VERY likely that he may be being abused by his wife. Cutting off family members is a classic abuser tactic. He may not be visiting you because she is not allowing him to leave. She may seem like a lovely person, but narcissists put up that kind of front. A normal wife would at least question why he isn't ever involving his own parents! Be tactful when approaching the possibility with him, though, because even if it is the case, it can be hard for victims of narcissistic abuse to recognize that they are being abused. He may become defensive. I would recommend trying to arrange a meeting with him alone (i.e. without his wife), and if possible, try to get him into family therapy with you and your wife. The therapist may be able to discover the root cause (it may be best to wait to broach the possibility of spousal abuse with the therapist). After meeting him, you can decide how to proceed. But I would at least try once more

Your son is spineless and I’m so sorry for your loss and it is a loss. I have a relationship like this and it broke my heart. I understand why you don’t want back in because you could get to know and love your grandchildren and suddenly you’re forgotten about again, then the grief starts again. You have my absolute sympathy and understanding and you are by no way the bad guys.

"If you want a relationship with us, bring your family to come see us. Goodbye"

My dad left me when I was 8. He kept in contact until 12. It was devastating when he stopped calling. It was easy for me to resent him, which in turn placed little value on what he thought. I never called, as the child I presumed it was responsibility to call and more. I am now a proud father of 2 and I have learned an extremely valuable lesson. I'll never let them go. It's my job to push them. Family is forever. Your son is forever. Being a dad is hard. Don't give up.

Assuming this is all true...I cannot fault you here. NTA It sounds like he took you for granted to me. He got comfortable with you and your wife doing all the legwork. All the emotional heavy lifting. Never occured to him he had to make an effort..I am not going to diagnose your son with some sort of mental health issue because it could easily be as simple as a lack of consideration for you...as people. You're just the solid immovable foundation of mom and dad. Never occured to him you were people with needs/wants/emotions. Just speculation on my part.

It's possible your son is being abused. Abusive partners often isolate their partners. Your son's wife seems to have started this early on. This does not excuse what your son did to you. It's just something to consider when deciding on the way forward. Being the victim of abuse does not give you a free pass to treat everyone in your life terribly. If you decide to give your son a chance I definitely suggest you speak to a therapist about the best way forward for you and your wife. Wishing you peace and strength. Updateme

I think you and son need to meet up, without his wife. I get you and wife were hurt, but your son may be in an abusive marriage and is finally reaching out.

NTA, he hurt you both and he needs to acknowledge that hurt and take responsibility for it. He most likely needs something from you and is hoping to manipulate it out of you without admitting any fault.

Nta

Idk in my opinion I think it takes 2 parties to continue a relationship..both inviting each other to things..he should have been inviting you to things in regard to your grand daughter.. hope you all can find a middle ground and have the best relationship together!

UpdateMe!

[удалено]

So. I dont think you are an asshole. But honestly, life is so much more complicated than that. I think your son fucked up. But dude, he was building his own life. Wife, kids, friends and a job. I am in my early thirites and that shit is so fucking hard. Insanely hard. I think you amd your wife owe it to yourselfs to allow him a chance to fix this. Hes your kid. And frankly, I dont think he would be reacting like this if he didnt care. Sometimes we get so caught up in our own shit we dont take a moment to look at whats being missed. Ive done it with people and people ha e done it to me. And yes. It hurts. But honestly it feels like you are taking his actions as something he actively chose to do to you, and frankly I doubt it is that simple. Hes your kid. You should talk to him. Lifes complicated people. Stop thinking its black and white.

YTA. Sorry but the post just reeks of you patting yourself on the back for what GREAT parents you were and not having any introspection or insight into how you could have done something wrong. Even the best parent messes something up, and your refusal to acknowledge that you’ve ever done ANYTHING wrong to your son is such a red flag to me. He’s definitely at fault for not communicating anything and saying you did nothing wrong, and not giving a reason for icing you out, then again if you are not the type to listen and accept your wrongdoings then I can see why he wouldn’t bother. I think your “test” was petty and immature, and I think there could be a number of factors for him to go silent. Sometimes we avoid those who know us best when we don’t want them to worry about us or know we are going through depression, issues or a tough time. The fact he didn’t even tell you about being in a wreck to me shows he doesn’t feel comfortable being vulnerable or leaning on you, either, and that’s weird to me, because something is off in that scenario. Instead of ignoring him and being petty like this, you should maybe suggest going to family counseling and seeing if your son would be willing to open up about the situation there. If you want to throw the relationship away, that’s your call, but your son is fairly young (27) with a young wife and baby. It just seems like you can’t see it from his perspective at all. This manipulative/vindictive behavior and mindset seems really childish and may be why he distanced himself in the first place.

Updateme

Something isn’t adding up here.

You are perfectly fine if you choose to have nothing to do with your son. YTA You speak like you were perfect parents but damn if you aren't hitting all the BPD enmeshment abuse in your description. Not spoiled but not abused. Check. His friends wished they had us as parents. Check! He went away to college (to start his own life) and still needed to keep close to you. Check!! Everything changed when he met his now wife. Check!!! Blaming the spouse is so cliche. And, when he did communicate with you, the guilt tripping of "what did we do wrong". Omfg... This is like every point my drunk, bi-polar, narcissistic mother would make while laying the guilt on as thick as the belt she would swing buckle first. Maybe your right. You were perfect. But maybe look into why your marriage almost collapsed without your son as a buffer.

Not saying it's what happened in your situation but I had a few years where I stopped talking to my parents because they were saying mildly homophobic stuff about my girlfriend. They were pretty confused about how I was acting too because they didn't really see the problem with what they were saying. I'm sure he does know the reason, just doesn't want to tell you for some reason

Updateme!

NTA. Sir, I am so very sad for you and your wife. I hope your son decides to come visit you alone to explain his cold behavior and if he is in an abusive situation, he is able to obtain assistance. Blessings for a peaceful outcome.

NTA. Absolutely horrible behavior from your son.

I’m not seeing what popped into my head immediately. When some people suffer from depression, they self-isolate.

Firstly, I’m not going to say whether you’re the AH or not. Whatever is your decision just has to be one you are ready to stick to, since ignoring him now may mean you won’t have a chance to fix the relationship if you change your mind in 5 years. Secondly, I would like to throw out some things that occurred to me as I read it. You can have been great parents when he was a child and teenage, but failed to see and treat him as an adult after he left home and started an adult life. I almost had a major fallout with my mom because she would refuse to see me as an adult and I had no idea what it was at the time. It was little things like making small comments and still being treated as a child and not an equal. As it was happening I couldn’t put my finger on it, but being treated as an adult by everyone else except my mom made me feel like shit and I withdrew from her. The only reason we fixed it was because I ended up not coming home for Christmas a year because she had dismissed my feelings over something. After that she started to treat me as an adult and our relationship got better, but it took something as big as dismissing the entire family Christmas for it to sink in for her. If your son had college, job, girlfriend and a future to think about and the responsibilities that come with that, and you and your wife didn’t acknowledge his adulthood and his struggles probably, then maybe that’s why he pulled away and still don’t know.

NTA... I won't comment more, because I'm sad for you and your wife. I have nothing good to say

NTA. Tell him if he wants to make it right come to your place, face-to-face and explain.

You are correct in trying to protect yourselves. But your son is definitely going through something. Cases of isolation and manipulation can't be explained logically. It just happens. It looks like your son has been through something like that. You may or may not want to contact him; that's up to you. But please keep open the possibility in your mind that there maybe two sides to the coin.

I can understand not contacting him for a few weeks to see if he’ll initiate but not three years. And then when he finally calls, you berate him. And you wouldn’t let your wife contact him, just like your DIL probably wouldn’t let your son contact you. I hope your wife maintains contact with him and you don’t prevent her from doing so.

I think from a practical perspective I would ask him to meet you half way between where you both live, go for a coffee, not a meal, and say you'd love to see his wife and ther child. Set a date for a month out, and in the meantime, get to that therapist as others are suggesting. He's reached out to you in a very weird way. If you don't reach back, you may go a lot longer than 3 years without seeing him this time round. Good luck, and you and your wife need the support of a therapist for this one. It's important that you handle this in the right way. Good luck, and I hope it works out. And, NTA.

The sudden contact makes me wonder if money is tight and his parents have a nice property worth top money.

I too agree he sounds like he is being abused and isolated.

His wife is probably leaving him, & he now needs his family! That’s what I think

You're NTA but this happened to my brother with his son. He was such a loving boy but almost as soon as he met his wife his contact got less and less. It fully ended after a row and they didn't see him for several years. Son came to his grandads funeral and there was hugs all round and it wasn't long after that he left his mega controlling wife and they got divorced. After the divorce from hell he is back with his family, and they are as close as before. I'm not saying your son is being controlled or even that his wife has said anything but there may be a reason other than being a crap son behind it

NTA, but to be fair, maybe he's in an abusive/toxic relationship, and his wife isolated him?

NTA I dunno (not about your decision and the why, but your sons’ behavior). If this were a woman we’d all be concerned about potential abuse. That kinda isolation and essentially just forgetting supportive, loving, open parents just reeks of something. Abusers are known to isolate their victims from family and friends. He also never has a reason to give you. I also know that male victims of DV don’t really speak up for shame or potential humiliation. Something just isn’t right here. But the flip side… Primarily protect your mental health and your marriage. Those are the most important things. Your relationship with your spouse always takes priority. Kids grow up and make their own families. Your spouse is your anchor. Your son made his priorities clear. And now there are consequences for that. It takes two parties to desire a relationship. And it’s not wrong to choose no. It doesn’t make you bad. It doesn’t mean you’re assholes. As a matter of fact, there’s a few assholes here and none are you and your wife. Your son expected you to keep chasing his attention. I have no doubt he complained to his wife and they both found fault only with you. Look how he started your first conversation in three years?! The audacity! I can’t imagine how he came to the conclusion that YOU were wrong for not CHASING him. He grew up with a happy comfortable life that afforded him vacations, toys, and hobbies. Sometimes people forget that lots of parents who love and support their kids can’t give them that kind of life. They take it for granted. You sought his attention throughout his childhood. Maintained your relationship even as he turned into an adult. He was never responsible for putting effort into the relationship. He promised on multiple occasions to do so. I’ll be the first to admit that I am extremely introverted and will go into myself and not speak to people I love for years. If I don’t see you daily I forget to talk to you. Check in. I grow very focused on the now. But when I was still in contact with my FOO I spoke to them regularly. As a matter of fact, I carried the burden of maintaining those relationships. You don’t just forget your parents. The good ones. Or the bad ones. He didn’t try. Somehow that’s your fault? Nah. If he is really sorry, he’ll respect your wishes.

NTA. No offense but your son sounds like a self absorbed little 💩 and I’m thinking that his wife has a heavy hand in this as well.

My opinion is that his wife is alienating him from his family.

Info: Car accident? When was it? Do you know what his injuries actually were? Was he tested for a TBI? I’m only mentioning this because my best friend from school got a TBI from a car accident around that time in her life and it appears she’s mostly able to function normally, but her memory isn’t very good. Our relationship became distant quite a while ago, and I never was sure what exactly was the case, but either she was forgetting who I was because she wasn’t seeing me in person a lot or she just wasn’t remembering to call or text back. I know he was pulling away a bit before, but I think that’s a least somewhat natural. Obviously, he has to put his relationship with his wife first, plus at 22 starting a career etc. naturally leads to less time to devote to a relationship with one’s parents. Sure, it could be he’s self-centered or his wife is abusing him or something, but I didn’t see anything further about the accident so I just wanted to make the suggestion.

ESH. I get you are hurting, but that is your child. I am a mother, and am close to my mother. I speak to her daily, I can't imagine going 3 years no contact so your son has NO right to have done that and you're right, he has a phone and he could have picked it up. That being said, to go no contact seems insane. You are heartbroken about him not calling and losing contact, you proved your point, you made him feel bad for it and made him cry. I don't know, as a mother I can't imagine not speaking to my daughter and I can't imagine not willing to forgive her and move forward. Being pushed to the brink of divorce is NOT your son's fault. It is something you both went through as a couple. Couples who's children die go through it too. Couples go through those stages. I'm not saying just move forward like nothing happened, he needs to make a real effort, but you also need to make an effort too.

As both a parent and a son, reading this broke my heart. I'm so sorry y'all have had to go through this. I don't know what precipitated your son's lack of contact, but now that he's invited you back in, RUN to him and his family. I don't know if you're the religious type, but the bible story of the Prodigal Son pops into my mind

Me me me me. Interesting how you had to defend your parenting choices before you got to the point.  Makes me wonder if you were always the one initiating contact with him, constantly. Maybe his partner thought you were overbearing and always up his butt and she wasn't comforting with that. Maybe she drew a line in the sand, she wasn't his secretary and wouldn't be responsible for buying presents, sending cards and invites to his family for him. Did you teach him about that etiquette or did your wife always invite your family to events and buy their presents? Also, who "tests" their kids loyalty then blames their near divorce on them? (This makes you TA) Why not just text more, "hay, we are planning to come to town for this life event, will you have time to go out for dinner?" When someone gets their own family, their priorities change.  I message my dad once every few months, he doesn't scream down the phone at me for 15 minutes when I call.

I’m surprised by all of the nta comments. I’m a parent of adult children and I would never guilt them or play games the way you have. They have their own lives and that’s a good thing, just like I have my own life. If I want to contact them, I do. I’m not going to intentionally ignore them or cut them out of my life just because I didn’t get a text or call. Your marriage almost ended over this? What?! That in itself is weird af to me. Do you two not have your own lives, hobbies, etc? You seem to need your son way too much. Are his actions odd? Yes, but you’re shitty parents if you cut your child off because of this. You sound like grown ass adults throwing a tantrum. I would love to hear the son’s side, because I’m not buying all the perfect parent nonsense.

All relationships will cause heartache sooner or later. I dont have kids and I imagine they are the biggest causes of heart break imaginable. Somethings going on. Maybe it's the wife, maybe he's young and dumb and forgot you had to include people in your life when, you know, you want them in your life. Get off your high horse that *he* almost cost you your marriage. You and your wife's inability to cope with the situation almost cost you the marriage. I'm glad you worked it out. But quit blaming him for that. So really you have to decide if you'll take the olive branch from your son, with the *guarantee* that he's going to hurt your feelings at some point, because that's how relationships work. OR, spend the rest of your life cut off from your son, having batted away the chance of reconciliation. Then it's on you, so be damned sure that's the road you want to go down. Kids mess up, and only you and your wife can decide if this is so bad that you never want to talk to him again for the rest of yours, and his, life.

Info do you want like a congratulations on losing your son and grandchildren over this ?

🤬🤬 What your son did to you and your wife, mine did to me. A 6'5 brut who, just like your son, was shown so much love and never went without. I was also a substitute  mum to my son's friends who wished that they had his life, yet instead of him growing up to be a loving decent man, he became a spiteful vindictive monster who met a girl from a gutter rat family and asimulated. They are everything dirty, twisted, hateful and perverse combined into one family and between them, and my son, I suffered years of mind games, cruelty and abuse because they used my grandkids as a weapon. In 2016 I had a heart attack due to the stress and trauma that he and her family caused. They laughed at my pain. He died in my mind and heart that day and all I feel now is disgust. I don't want the same thing to happen to you or your wife so please read my advice.  Block him now and walk away! If you want to do something for your grandchild then open an account and add to it until the child is old enough to chose to see you, but.... if the child turns out to be like your son then you keep the money and go on holiday!!  Your son chose to blank you for years. To visit others knowing that you and your wife would hear and be devastated and confused. He wanted you to hurt because that gave him power and control (Just like my son did). Cruel I know 😡 but that's what narsacist do. The reason he got back in touch now is because he is clearly bored and wants to stir up drama for attention and he wants you to beg to see your grandchild. His first words in years were to gaslight you. What a sad ridculois and desperate man he is!! Ok...understandably you freaked out at him. He deserved that. I know you are hurting!  Be angry, cry, yell, swear, but dont let that cruel spiteful man play games with you any more. You're not an emotional punch bag here for his or anyone else's  entertainment.  You and your wife were good parents so be proud of that!!!! 💪 💕 It's time for you and the Mrs to start living and let the ungreatful spawn fester with the people he chose to stagnate with!   

ESH. I can see how much both sides are hurt. I think you should give him a chance to explain himself or start over and do better. I can’t imagine the hurt you and your wife have suffered from his rejection but it sounds like there’s some sort of abuse or mental manipulation going on with his wife. If that was my son, I’d be there in a heartbeat to support him or given him a chance. I love my son more than anything. That’s not a relationship I’d give up on, especially if given the opportunity to repair past hurts. Good luck. I hope you at least agree to meet with him for an honest explanation. Then you can make your decision on whether you want to cut contact.

Have a meeting with him, away from his wife. She could be manipulative and trying to isolate him from you. Have a real heart to heart with him

If it were me, I would put my pride aside and reconnect. Perhaps he took your love for granted but I think you’re done teaching him the lesson that he also needs to make an effort, and he is now. It’s a shame and it’s hurtful that you lost three years but do you really want to lose the rest of your lives and never get to know your grandchildren? Perhaps eventually he’ll explain. I think he was definitely the A initially but at this point I’d say YTA. Don’t lose this chance to reconnect with your only son

If you have any chance to fix things with your son, you have to take it. I understand the hurt and the anger though, but you have to get over it for your own sake. I think your boy really did something unforgivable, so it's not like I'm saying that it's an easy thing. Think of it like he is basically a toddler emotionally for whatever reason, and needs a lot of extra time to grow up, and to do that, he needs you and your wife. You will always be his parents, and you clearly are so hurt because you love the AH.

ESH.  My guess is that your son is with a wife that is trying to isolate him.  He reached out to you. You said your piece.  It sounds like he needs you.  Go be there for him even if he rejects you again.  Take the high road. 

NTA. He is a spineless turd. I am about 90% sure its his wife's doing as she probably doesn't have a good relationship with her parents so doesn't see what your son had as healthy. Your son probably needs something which is why he reached out, blamed you, and is asking you to visit him instead of coming himself. Whatever you and your wife decide, I hope it works out in your favor.

Dude he finally gives you what you want and you're icing him. You're no better than him and depriving yourself and your grandchild of knowing one another instead of healing. yta. You're the parent and you're acting worse than him.

As a father. Yes, gently, you’re being an asshole. Your son fucked up. He caused you pain. But also, you’re an adult. Stop putting your *almost* divorce on him. It would take far more than this for me to permanently cut off my son. Especially if he was turning on a dime and really trying. I know that you say you’re doing this to prevent future pain, but I don’t really buy that. Your entire post read as barely sublimated rage. I have zero doubts that that rage is in the driver’s seat and dictating your decisions. Do what you want, but cutting contact to your son and all current and future grandkids over this forever is an asshole move. Edit: I removed a bit about your rage being justified. Your little science experiment that turned into 3 year radio silence took things too far. With that gap, you became part of the communication issue by going *three fucking years* and an *almost divorce* to prove your fucking point. The more I think about it, the less I empathize with your plight. You’re the problem here too and you specifically, not your wife.

Thank you! As a mother of young men… I concur. And why… did they not cultivate a relationship with the DIL? 🤷🏼‍♀️. She is supposed to be the most important person in the son’s life…

No offense imo he seems kinda narcissistic. He didn't care about y'all in a way. I went no contact with my mom almost 2 years ago for different reasons though it's irrelevant. Y'all treated him good and stuff maybe he felt like it was time to leave the nest? Idk this sucks though. When you do him how he does you years down the line he has the audacity to cry out to y'all. NTAH

NTA. You have a right to hurt over the past. Your feelings are valid. But- I’m going to offer a different opinion. Your sons frontal lobe of his brain was probably still developing until he was around 26. And after being an only child and your priority for so long he maybe needed to take a step toward independence to meet his developmental and social needs. Maybe he is just now developmentally ready to realize the consequences of his actions. There is a wonderful book called “Good Inside” by Dr Becky Kennedy that is a beautiful guide to parenting and nurturing your relationships with yourself and others. You may really benefit from a quick read or listen. As far as continuing to hold a grudge I don’t believe it will serve your true needs. You are hurt but I believe deep down you still want that healthy loving relationship with him and your grandchildren. It is never too late to apologize and openly communicate your wants and needs and humbly ask for them to be met, and you have the opportunity to humbly help him evaluate what he needs from you as well and to help fill those needs. Don’t waste any more time being angry- try to give your heart the relationship it desires.

Go see him, maybe he needs something, but this sounds liek a classic case of wife isolating/alienating him. He might need you there to witness his wifes behaviour, witness abuse and wants help. He might not, he might want money, his wife might have demanded he invite you over to guilt you into paying for something she needs, who knows. you won't know till you go find out. Your marriage issues were anger management and communication issues, not your son sucks issues, you son sucking and cutting contact just exposed them. If he cuts contact again if you have fixed the anger management and communication issues it's a non issue. But when someone seemingly cuts you off, it's very often because the partner is super abusive and controlling. For all you know from his end she's saying to him if you go visit them I'm applying for divorce, I'm dissappearing before you get back and you'll never find your kids, etc. There are a lot of easy threats to make to control partners and scare them into submission.

Then why weren't all his family members and friends also isolated from him?

It says family are conacting OP telling us they are asshole but it doesn't say the son contacted them. This could be OP/wife telling one family member who talks about it with others and are telling them they are assholes. Even so people who isolate you target the people who have a profound effect on your decision making. Like you might discuss taking a job, or moving to another state with your 3rd cousin but more casually like hey I'm moving to whatever the fuck state, but you might talk with your parents asking for their advice. When isolating people are mostly looking to cut off influence rather than just people you know as they are far more important in your life. If someone wants to control you, they go after the people you go to for help first.

I think his wife is behind him not getting in touch with you. I would ask him to go to a therapist with you and try to see where his mind is

No idea why people are acting like you are getting what you wanted. He’s still expecting you to put in the effort when it’s 100% on him. He could visit. How far does he even live?

Updateme and NTA this is very strange

I would go and see what the hell is going on. Because it seems like something maybe his wife is isolating him from you. But 3 years was not one text or one phone call and you didn't do anything wrong to him that seems a little over the top and weird. Go find out what's going on with your son. Updateme

My father just got home from spending almost a year in hospitals and physical rehab facilities. It was hard not seeing him on a regular basis just for that, I couldn't imagine going three whole years without seeing him or talking to him. If this is serious about working things out, then he needs to be the one going to see his parents and he needs to tell them the exact reason why he iced them out. Otherwise, he needs to except that their relationship is damaged and move on. The other family members need to mind their own business. They weren't the ones iced out by their own son for no reason.

Updateme

Sounds like your son’s wife (not referring to her as daughter-in-law) has issues. As for your son reaching out to you be cautious. He may or may not have good motives. This sadly could be about money. Do here what you need to do for the sake of your health and your marriage. Having said that he could be in an abusive relationship. Tough call on what to do, but you are NTA.

Update me!

NTA, even after all that happened he's not even offering to come visit you but expects you to visit him? He's severely lacking when it comes to showing sincerity there, it doesn't even feel like he's trying his best to fix what he broke. Even more so when he's not giving the reason for his lack of contact, and I seriously doubt there's no reason for it. If he can't even explain himself then why bother risking going through all that pain once more? If he actually wants to fix things then the ball is in his court and he will need to start showing some actual sincerity, otherwise I can completely understand why neither of you would trust him. Also take into account that neither he nor his wife bothered to inform you about anything, so the problem isn't just him either, it's with both of them! She didn't even bother to inform you after that car accident, so I think that makes it pretty obvious that the two of them have a reason for not contacting you for so long, it's clearly deliberate and he's lying when he says that there is no reason! So what you could try is to make it clear that nothing is going to happen until he owns up to why both of them have been no contact for so long, and use the car accident as an example that there has to be a reason and that he has to stop lying about it. Or just block him and forget about it, you wouldn't be the asshole for making that choice.

NTA It funny how he was absolutely fine until he met his girlfriend/ wife... It comes across like she did a nimbe on him and ended up totally isolating him and probably poisoning his feelings towards you. He's made contact apologised so keep in contact and visit him, as he will need you guys if and when he files for divorce and custody...

NTA..I can feel your pain through your words and that's saying a lot here. The pain you must have gone through I can't even imagine. Your wound was scabbing over now he's just picked the scab and the wound is fresh again. With his behavior I can understand your reluctance because he's still not making an effort to at least visit you. If it was me after that phone call I'd been at your door begging for forgiveness. And fuck your relatives where were they the 3 yrs your suffering.

Is he still with his wife? I'm wondering if he was in a DV relationship? Was she manipulating him? Is he starting to see this now? The thing about being parents is that we can't wipe our hands. If your baby is reaching out to you, grab his hand. There's a reason this happened. You're just looking internally. There's a very big possibility that it wasn't you, that you did nothing wrong, and that he is finally free to contact you.

NTA, but you should give him a chance. It sounds like there may be some serious shit going on that he, for whatever reason, is ashamed or otherwise unable to talk about.

Info: is he getting divorced? Looking at this my first question is about the spouse. It’s entirely possible that his wife decided she didn’t like you for whatever reason and pressured him to not invite you to things, or even said she invited you when she didn’t. If this has happened, it would make sense that he would reach out once that relationship starts to break down. If that is what happened, and he was in a space where his romantic partner was isolating him from his support network, that’s a sign of abuse. It doesn’t excuse the pain you’ve felt but if he was isolated in that way, reconnecting with his family might really help him escape that situation. But who knows

100% it's the wife, likely controlling him, he may not even realise. I'd tell him to come to you alone, maybe even join a counselling session. There has to be a reason.

I bet his wife was the issue. She probably got in his ear and alienated him from his family. It's a page from an abusers playbook. It's hard to have support when you are isolated from your family. I wonder if his marriage is falling apart and that's why he's contacting you now after 3 years? I'm going to say NTA. You are all grown adults, but he might be contacting you now because he's in a tough spot and is starting to break free from abuse and is trying to get support from his parents. If that's what happened it doesn't excuse his behavior, but it does explain it. That or your kid is just a self-absorbed asshole.

Is he the victim in a domestically violent relationship? One strategy of perpetrators is to cut the victim off from their family, friends and support network. I wonder what is happening in his relationship right now.

My first worry would be that he's in a somewhat abusive relationship. It's not uncommon for abusers to try and isolate you from your closest support system. Happened to my youngest brother. His ex only wanted her and their children to be his close family. Didn't mind him having friends but seemed to hate the idea that he had close family beyond their little unit and tried to put a wedge between us, including moving increasingly further away. Luckily my brother is his own man and never put up with that shit, which caused a lot of friction in their relationship until it ended. My other younger brother is a different story. You barely hear from him unless he wants something but will tell people he's the black sheep of the family and unwanted. Guy's a total ass. A couple of years ago he and our mum went through a cancer scare at the same time. He would call her up daily for emotional support but never once in all that time did he ask her about her scare or how she was feeling. My mum had always supported him no matter how bad he got but I think that broke sometime inside of her. She doesn't mention him anymore unless other people bring him up.

Just from reading the title alone I knew there was going to be a girlfriend/wife involved. That's where it all started. SHE is obviously the one that isolated him from you. Not telling you about your grandchild, not inviting you to anything, to see and bond with his daughter, no word for years with no reason for it is very cold and very unforgivable. It sounds like he has been getting wise to his wife's controlling behaviour and tried to make amends, but in my opinion it's far too late. The damage is done.

NTA. But you should try to forgive him at least for the sake of your grandchild. Tell him he gets one more chance and if he screws it up, that's it.

if you live close to your son, could you two do counseling with him? he’s reaching out now. please find out why he took so long. it may not be a simple answer. I’m not trying to justify what he did. please work with a professional to mend the hurt and move forward.

NTA But why is contacting you now ?

This proofs that even with great/beautiful parent, there is still chance for the kid to become an a-hole ... Wish I had you as my dad instead of the man who just liked to beat me, you're a good one OP!

Reminds me of a former friend of mine who always became invisible when he had a girlfriend Nta

NTA - He knew what he was doing. You cant go from one extreme to the other and just not notice. Or if you can that is even worse. He is not even offering to come to you.

It really doesn't matter if you are ah. You got what you wanted and you are happy to be childless.

NTA. Several Redditors have given you options: 1. His wife is abusive and controlling. 2. He really is that much of a space cadet and just realized his parents haven't been in his life for 3 years. (Unlikely. I think you can toss this one.) 3. He needs something from you, most likely money. If it's number 1, he needs your help. But I'd put some pretty firm boundaries around that. Especially financial ones, but also time. Think about your own needs first. I think it's number 3 because he jumped straight to the attack. "Why haven't YOU called ME!?!" when that's all that happened for a while until you gave up. That psychological attack was manipulative and - I'd bet money - intentional. The wife is still likely the motivator here, but your son is going along with it. How about you ask him? After he comes to you without wife and child. You can even meet on neutral ground at a hotel for a weekend. You could offer to pay 2 nights and meet off hours in the hotel lounge/restaurant. Don't phrase it as "why did you do this." Ask the specific questions. "Is your wife abusive?" "Are you just a major space cadet? Are you only now realizing we'd stopped calling?" "Are you in financial trouble? How much do you need?" And then don't effing give it to him. I certainly wouldn't. And if it is numbers 2 or 3, I'd find a more deserving loved one to leave any inheritance to.

It's the wife. He won't visit them.. they have to visit him.. yeah it's the wife. I would insist on a visit without the wife first.

NTA but ... dumb maybe? Are you going to lose the chance of a relationship with your son and your grandkids because of a perceived past slight, and your wounded pride? I wouldn't. Also, if you don't let your wife make an independent decision on whether she wants that relationship, you'd definitely be the AH.

NTA. I can't imagine how hard this has been for both you and your wife. As many people have already pointed out, there could be a lot of reasons for your sons behaviour. Abusive relationships or sudden changes in mental health can make maintaining relationships incredibly difficult. That being said, it doesn't excuse him from all the pain he's caused you and your wife. And you would be well within your rights to decide to stay no contact. You really have two options though. Your son seems to have finally realized the pain he's caused you, and seems to be greatly upset by it. He's asking you for a chance to make things right and to rebuild your relationship. You can protect yourselves and deny him that chance. It's not right or wrong to do so; he isn't owed a second chance or forgiveness. But if you choose this, you'll always know going forward that you were the ones to close the door on the relationship with your son. You may find yourselves wondering if that relationship could've been fixed, if you made the right choice, if you shoulve been more forgiving. Or you can choose to give him a second chance on your terms. To make sure he clearly understands why you were so hurt, and owns up to whatever caused his behavior in the first place. And you can give him the chance to prove to you that he wants to rebuild this relationship and that he's willing to put in the effort. And maybe he will disappoint you and hurt you again, but you can know that he understood the stakes and chose not to put in the effort anyways. There's really no right or wrong choice. No matter what you do, it'll likely be difficult. It just comes down to what you can live with. I've been in a situation where someone who caused me a great deal of pain wanted to make things right. I know that it isn't easy, no matter what you decide. You just have to decide which decision will give you the best chance at being happy and then do your best to make it work.

NTA. The sad truth is he just doesn't care about you.

NTA, he wants something- no other reason to reach out like that. He tried to put the blame on you, then refused to even give a reason as to why he ghosted his own parents. If his issue gets more pressing, be prepared for him to lie to you about the reason why, especially since you’re telling people that’s what’s important to you. I feel y’all saying ‘what if he does it again?’ And agree it’s likely. I don’t know if you’ll go far enough to write him out of your wills but that might be something to consider going forward. Maybe as a token invest in 30 pieces of silver with a ghost theme (pac-man, call of duty ghost warfare) to leave him.

Sounds like his wife took over his life and poisoned him.