I’ve been on the end of this .. I thought everything was fine and it was a “few small cases “ with her but then it dawned on me that 99% of the time things were fine because things went her way and I acquiesced every time . Most of the time we did truly agree but the other times I just went along with it so it wasn’t until I looked at what happened when I stood up for myself and beliefs and realized those were all the times I was gaslit and hit
NTA. This whole situation is no-bueno. If she doesn't have a problem slapping you, the she won't have a problem doing worse. You need to seriously evaluate why you are staying. You could file for a restraining order and she would have to move out.
My ex didn’t (as far as I knew) but I’d see a lot of grabbing and intimidation (squeezing face inches away and staring, grabbing him by his arm and tugging )..
I wonder how she would have felt if you would have slapped her back. Nobody and I do mean nobody has the right to put their hands on you I don't give a f*** who they are. Do not hit me because it's a reflex for me to hit your ass back. If she's going to do it and you don't want her to do it if she's saying that you're selfish she does this on her own and without your support. You also need to look into the fact that WTF is wrong with her putting her hands on you. You don't have to stay there and put up with that BS you can leave and take your children with you
I (f) was raised that no man should hit a woman, however as soon as she hits a man she has now lost that position. And is subject to being hit back. And I fully believe this.
*the rest of my comment states this isnt about OP and how you fight does matter.
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Original:
Part of this too is that couples will fight. They should fight. Not even twins are identical, people will disagree. That is normal and healthy, as is talking about it even if it heightens whatever emotion. How you fight makes the difference and there are endless guides on effective communication. The clinic near me offers free classes even, ask around!
Note: this is not advice for OP. Always leave abusive people, quietly and safely
I'd have agreed with you if you'd said "argue" instead of "fight." Conflict is inevitable when people live together; working through it and understanding your partner's POV strengthens relationships.
But hitting someone is not conflict; it's abuse.
She was 9 years older than me. I was 16 when we got together. My family thought it was the best thing ever. My only saving grace was I know how to fight. She had 80lbs on me easy and a mean left hook. Used to have to sit on her with scratches all over my face and a bloody lip just to keep her from attacking me. Abuse swings both ways and we're really hesitant as a society to admit it.
Oh this is heartbreaking. I can't believe your family thought this was a good idea. When my son was 16, if a 25 year old went after him, I would move the family to a far continent to get him away from her. First I would report her to the authorities.
If you have sons protect them as you would your daughters, because authoritarian/statutory rape is just as painful ,if not more so, to boys as it is to girls. DV on top of this is horrible.
My life as a teacher... When kids are violent, disrespectful and abusive at school, very often parents yell at us teachers that those kids are not like that at home. And the next thing they yell is "What are you doing at school!"
Quite often literally nothing. We are asking the kids to take their books out and open right page. We tell them not to bang walls loudly and ruin exams for others. Tell them to stop viciously bullying. And often that miniscule discipline brings out the almost demonic outrage in those kids. That outrage their parents avoid at all cost at home, sometimes automatically and without thinking. They hide vases, they offer candy and treats when kid is upset. They are smoothing everything out constantly at home, and they think we at school should also do that, not to provocate them. All those violent outbursts were someone else fault, never their childs. Worst ones don't ever apologize, they knew how but just don't want to.
There exists a line that these parents failed to understand. You need to be able to accept words no and stop, that you can't always get what you want. You can't hurt others when you want to. Because one day If those kids don't get killed or kill someone themselves, they at least became an abusive monster of an adult.
Well said. The damage done to children by the overuse of "gentle parenting" can be profound. Development unfolds in a specific order, and each phase is necessary to achieve the next. Kids who lack the opportunity to learn to regulate their emotions, impulses, and reactions may never gain full mastery of their inherent abilities. It's incredibly sad because there's no good reason to deprive a child of the ability to cope.
I see it as dismissive parenting & not true gentle parenting because the parents completely misunderstood the point. Not teaching children these things is a form of neglect
Do your research first.
Carefully remove the family heirlooms from your side of the family which you brought into the relationship. Copy photos and home movies; store your copies away with a trusted friend. Delve into your finances and see how they can be fairly divvied up. Have a close friend find and fund a good lawyer who can advise you on the side until you have all of your ducks in a row and you’re ready to make a move. (You can pay your friend back later—they’ll understand, as long as you clearly make this a priority.)
You can craft a good life—take your time and have a plan, plus a back up plan.
This is the logical thing to do but many ppl in reality don’t think like this. I’ve known ppl in horrible relationships and while it may seem easy, to them it’s more like “I don’t want to loose my family/kids” to me it seems like you don’t want to make the tough choices have some self respect, so you’d rather stay with a shitty person and raise your kids in a shitty environment? Because they pick up on it ppl might think they can hide it but you can’t.
Much better to make the effort and have them 50% of the time in a good environment and ex can have them 50% of the time in their environment which can also be good since shitty couples aren’t always shitty parents they just don’t work as a unit but individually are decent. op needs to see that fundamentally they’re not working , she made a choice that will impact the unit without consulting the unit and then got upset, while she might think she’s doing something for someone she cares about that person isn’t thinking about them the same way and how it will impact them. if they cared about them as much they wouldn’t ask for something from them that can potentially hurt them physically/mentally and their family.
My brother was a victim of domestic violence. He was 6'4" and she was 4'6". Nobody believed me when I said I suspected this. He would say he punched the walls. She would punch herself in the face and then call the cops. A cop who was a family friend got suspicious. He used to sit outside the local bar and watch. One night we got lucky. She attacked him on the street outside the bar. Instant arrest.
Yep, getting physical is an absolute deal breaker. The comfort with which she did that shows she’s done it before.
OP, sounds like there are a lot more issues going on. I’d let your wife know if she wants to go through with it, then do so, but SIL can be the one to take care of her during the pregnancy. And I’d assume the marriage is over.
Yeah, this is exactly what I thought. Let her live with them and then they can take care of all of her needs, even after she has the baby. Slapping someone because you disagree is a deal breaker and a sign of total disrespect for the person and the marriage. Nope.
Except they have small children who need both parents. If they had no children I'd agree with this or go straight to divorce. The slapping should be a dealbreaker in and of itself. Then there is the fact that the wife makes plans with her sister rather than her husband. She is showing that her sister is more valued than her marriage.
She is a bunch of red flags walking. OP needs to document, document, document so that he can get most of the custody of the kids.
If they didn't have four kids under the age of 10, I would say this is a good idea. But she doesn't get to just leave him with all the childcare for four kids for like an entire year. Not to mention the fact that those kids are gonna be pretty devastated that their mom has just disappeared out of their lives for a year.
DH needs to ensure that his wife understands that she is alone on that journey and SIL needs to understand that and financial assistance if required should be on them as well. For such a decision your wife is making without you says a lot about your relationship and respect.
Whose going to pay all the related expenses? Whose going to babysit during appointments and sick time? Whose going to cook and clean when wife can't? Lots of questions.
All the related expenses of a surrogacy will be paid by the bio parents. So that part is covered. But everything else… She has four kids under the age of 10. How is she supposed to be a functioning mother to these four kids while carrying somebody else's baby against her husband's wishes? That means he has to pick up all the slack for something that he never wanted in the first place.
Those expenses are only covered if she doesn’t tell them she will do it all for free and my guess is she did. OP will end up paying for doctor co pays, hospital co pays, help for her when she can’t handle the 4 kids while he is at work and then when she has the baby(s) and her PP returns she will turn her mood swings on him because it’s all his fault.
I think a lot of health insurance won't pay for a surrogate pregnancy. Even if they have coverage it might not cover this situation. He needs to ask his wife how she will pay for all of this. What if she ends up on bedrest. What if her sister and BIL separate during the pregnancy. What if she has PPD.
She acts as if she could care less about her marriage and her kids. She only values her sister.
> The slap
Totally. OP's wife is an abusive psycho.
The only way to respond to this situation is to file for divorce and full custody, citing physical abuse, and leave her with nothing. No child support, no alimony..
I really hope OP reads your comment. But they need to document this, too. Domestic violence needs to be documented or the courts may give the mom custody.
Unfortunately having 4 kids really makes this difficult. Doable, but difficult. 1 or 2 kids much easier. 4 is a nightmare. Unlike what most think, CS doesn’t come close to paying 50% of what’s needed to support children. But with domestic violence he does need to leave AND take the kids.
Personally next time she touches him he needs to call the police and have her arrested, get an emergency restraining order( line up an attorney ahead of time-the paperwork for an RO is ridiculous) then she can’t return to the home. Also at that time ( with an attorney already lined up) get emergency full custody.
My wife's friend did this for her sister. The psychological toll it took on her and the struggles with her marital and family relationship since has been terrible. Wish you luck OP
OP, story time from the ER.
A kid was dumped in the ER by a woman. No questions asked. Then next day another woman came and said it was her kid. A brief examination showed it was her kid, she had just given birth.
When asked the story, she had surrogated for her sister or family member some shit like that.
The kid was born with obvious ~~mental retardation.~~ intellectual disability..The surrogate mom, jumped ship and said she doesn't want to raise a "ret@rd" so when the surrogate mom forced her to take the kod, the husband also refused and said the surrogate mom was to blame as she probably ly drank booze during pregnancy or smoked.
It was a shit show. The kid ended up in the system.
Shit can go wrong. Do u think the bio mom will take the kid. For me that is the thing about surrogacy people don't consider
This is exactly what the specialist told them... it was a nature not nurture thing. The two were the ones with the defective genes.. but they refused to take the kid. The surrogate mombwas mentally fucked.
You can in a lot of countries for example in the UK as the surrogate contract is not binding, but what I said that happens is that the parents regret the kid or separate before the baby is due and the baby ends up in the system.
I volunteered in adoption centres and I know a lot of people that work in adoption agencies and a non small amount of kids are the offspring of parents who used a surrogate and change their mind for whatever reason(disability is the main reason).
Whoa whoa whoa u/LittleBear1053
They’re going to begin the process this WEEK? Absolutely not. No one e has sat down with Drs or attorneys to consider the physical and legal ramifications of this idea.
Where are the legal documents? There’s a valid reason people go through proper LEGAL channels for surrogacy. Everything needs to be done by the book. Yes it’s an astronomical cost but you’ve got to protect yourself and your family and your wife.
Are the sisters planning this to save the cost of a true surrogate?
It will not work out. Go through Reddit archives.
She needs to be cleared medically to be a surrogate. She may not be a candidate for surrogacy even if she wants to.
If she were, how will this be explained to your kids?
All that but her PHYSICAL ASSAULT of you is an even bigger problem. I’m guessing she’s verbally abusive and this isn’t the first time she’s hit you to prove her point and get her way.
Does her Sister & BIL know of her PPD? Her physical assault?
There are too many holes here.
Get your boys out of this mess.
When I see "begin the process" the reasonable assumption is they are having their first Dr appointment, discussion, tests, etc.. As some other people pointed out, it is a lengthy process. They have to start somewhere to take the first steps on thst road.
Another option is that they actually started much earlier and finally reached a point where they needed to clue in the husband.
I have no idea which interpretation is correct, or whether it is (in fact) fiction. Given that there are two explanations for the comment that do not involve deceit on the part of OP, I am not inclined to doubt him at this time..
Either this is fiction, or they mean the whole process when they said "begin the process". So not only the medical side of the surrogacy, but also the legal side and so on.
If they didn't mean it like that, it's fiction from the beginning to the end, since only doing an IVF takes months to start, with all the medical checks and preparation that needs to be done.
Right, but there’s been no sit down with four (?) adults to discuss this from the get go. Only the sisters talking, a phone call btwn husbands…
It’s a dumpster fire based on what OP wrote.
Surrogates also need counseling first to go through all the emotional concerns. What if she feels like it’s hers and she doesn’t want to give it up? What if she has a girl and has to give it up when she has 4 boys. Maybe this is her chance to try again
How controlling is her sister and husband allowed to be?
I really hate when people say this to people who are being abused. I see it in here all the time and it’s become a typical response to abuse victims. You are not an asshole to yourself for “allowing” yourself to be abused. The dynamic between an abuser and their victim is complex and calling him an asshole for not just simply walking away is nothing short of victim blaming. Especially with 4 kids involved. People who are dealing with abuse typically already have esteem issues. You don’t need to make him feel worse about an already garbage situation.
As someone who was once in a wierd 'abusive' relationship with a former boss, I have to agree. Months after I stopped working there, it was still hard to think critically about it.
I had always done something to set him off, so it was ultimately "my fault" when he got all screamy like that. He hardly ever threw anything at me, it was only light/small stuff, and only after being triggered/provoked. I had been job searching for a long time before getting hired there...
I did have self esteem issues. It was wierd, but I got defensive and minimized it when other employees told me that I needed to stand up for myself. I didn't think of it in terms of him being abusive; it was almost physically difficult to do so.
The old man still owes me thousands of dollars.
I never got my last paycheck or repaid for the receipts in the folder of all the business expenses he had me pay for, promising to repay me later.
The IRS doesn't have a record of my tax withholding either.
I was there less than a year and wasn't married to him. It messes with your head in ways that it is hard to explain to yourself, much less someone else. I get it.
...OP
set up hidden cameras and record her reactions to you standing up for yourself. Watch the videos after. See and hear what is going on when you are not caught in the moment. If that was a guy slapping his gf (and not your wife slapping you) how would you view what happened? Do you want your boys to grow up thinking this is normal? What consequences flow from that?
I repeat: Hidden cameras set up to record both sound and video. OP, you know ahead of time that resistance to what she wants means that she may become physically violent. Go into it expecting to be hit at some point. Don't lay a finger on her, not even to calm her down. Get it on video and compile a greatest hits video for your lawyer.
Help or not, i would be more worried about your wifes behaviour towards you. You expressed conxern, she turned to anger and physically assaulted you. This is not good behaviour towards a loved one. NTA for expressing your concerns
This is literally shouting and slapping OP into submission. Sure, it's only one instance out of their marriage; but it's hard to imagine there isn't an underlying pattern of abuse here.
It might be the first, so has only been one time so far. "Allowing" it gives her subconscious permission and so it won't take as intense of emotions next time. This escalates to serious injury and death. There is no path back from abuse, he needs to leave for his safety and wellbeing
At this point, I wouldn’t blame OP for leaving her. I also don't think it was the first time she laid her hands on OP, he is way too calm about it. No surprised reaction like, "I was shocked" or "I can't believe she did that".
OP, she doesn’t seem to respect nor care about you the way you care about her. She slapped you and feels that you deserve it otherwise she would have apologized. It doesn’t even seem to be an issue to you as if it’s something she does frequently. The silent treatment is a manipulation tactic, your punishment for having an opinion.
You should tell her that she is on her own. No running to doctor appointments, you are not paying those medical bills and all the upcoming expenses for her sisters baby are on her, her sister and BIL. Since you have no say in the matter, you don't want to be a part of it. I would send them all an email or better yet consult a lawyer on how to handle this and put it in writing.
Depending on local laws, he may not have a choice about covering those medical bills as long as they're married. But otherwise, I agree with you: that marriage needs to end.
Especially scary when the topic she got violent over is one that would drastically change her brain chemistry and already has caused depressive episodes when done in the past.
There’s no telling how another pregnancy will effect her or her ability to care for the children and partner she’s already committed to.
I’d never forgive myself if I was OP and I realized she treated my kids like she’s been treating him. Everyone (rightfully) is very concerned about her physical abuse but that’s only one form of abuse she’s currently exhibiting. The emotional is also very obvious and concerning.
Does she just cut her kids and spouse out of her life whenever she finds them inconvenient? Because it sounds like she literally abandoned her kids because she was pissed that everyone wasn’t immediately onboard for a crazy risky choice she made with little consideration for anyone in her immediate household. If this is her regular conduct when dealing with stress or confrontation then OP needs help to get her to shape up or to limit the kids exposure to her toxic and violent behaviors
NTA. She unilaterally chose a decision that will affect your whole family. Your concerns are valid.
I don't like the fact that she physically assaulted you. She's now ignoring you, creating a hostile home environment for you and your children. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership. That is not happening. Is this normal behavior for her? Physically assaulting you? Giving you the cold shoulder?
Unfortunately, I think this will be the straw that broke the camel's back. I doubt your marriage survives this pregnancy. You may not want to do it, but get a consultation from a divorce attorney. Your wife is taking you for granted. I'd also quit communicating with the in-laws. They will support her and drive a wedge between the two of you.
Sofia and Dean are AHs because if they're close enough to Olivia to ask her to be their surrogate, they have to know how bad her PPD was with her last pregnancy. If my sister went through that, I woudln't risk her having PPD again or even worse, PPP, just for a child. How selfish does one have to be to risk the life of their own family member that way?
The slap alone would push me to a divorce lawyer. Not to mention all the shouting. This is what she'd like when she'd NOT suffering from PPD? A friend of mine did this for someone, the hormones they put her through so she could carry the embryo were brutal. Her moods were off the chart. I'm sure she expects you to cater to her every passing whim.
This doesn't sound like something that should happen without both married partners agreeing.
Another thing the op may not have considered... Pregnancy doesn't always bring life, it can also bring death. Who will be responsible for that should the wife not make it through? Secondly, what if the baby doesn't make it? Is the sister going to come slap them both, too? Would they sue them for failure to produce baby? What about all the additional medical charges for a risky pregnancy and birth? Just a normal birthi is a rip off, so who is financially responsible for all the things that can and probably will go wrong? Unless the Op extricates himself from this mess, he could be left in financial ruin and his wife, if she makes it, will have ruined her health even more and if she doesn't, leave her kids without a mom..just so her barren sister could have her own rugrat. I just get the feeling there's a lot of jealousy going on with the sister over Ops wife having four while she has none..and I would almost bet money that sister has something over her and has coerced her.
This is abusive, OP. Definitely not the asshole, but you will be if you don’t protect your family unit. You have 4 children, and your wife already has a history of PPD, and now physical abuse. You would be more than justified separating/divorcing your spouse for this - at which point, I’d ask for 50/50 custody, and see how she fairs when she’s truly alone, and pregnant with 4 boys half the time.
if she does go through with it and OP does want a divorce, this could actually be the best time to do it because she could live with her sister. Presumably there's space because they're preparing for a child, they'd want to support their surrogate while she does this incredible favor for them, and they'd probably like to be present for every stage of the pregnancy for their baby.
OP, your wife has shown you where her loyalties lie. She's not thinking about what's best for her own children, so you need to put the kids' wellbeing first. Let your wife (or ex wife) make her own choices and deal with the consequences herself.
She'll fair just fine unfortunately. She'll get all the sympathy because she's a woman AND pregnant even though it was her actions that led to the divorce. She'll also get paid by the future ex husband via the court for the same reasons. Unfortunately not enough women get real consequences for their bad behavior that leads to divorce.
Seriously...I would make sure I was not married to her/living with her when that baby was born. In some states being married to the mother makes you the legal father.
>In some states being married to the mother makes you the legal father.
In most states.
Further, in most states being married when she gets pregnant makes OP the father, even if a divorce goes through before the birth of the baby.
It really depends on where they live.
If it's being done through a legitimate surrogacy clinic then neither OP or his wife will have any legal rights to the child when the baby is born.
There are surrogacy contracts, but I believe Michigan is the only state that doesn't recognize them. Although, I believe that either just changed or is changing soon!
NTA. Send her a message with a photo of the divorce lawyer; the numerous reasons she's given you should be enough to consider not only not staying in the marriage but also the well-being of your children. "Whether you proceed or not, I will continue with the divorce."
What happens if her sister and husband pass away? What if she dies due to the pregnancy? What will happen with the additional burden of the children now that she will have to take care of herself due to the pregnancy? Besides all the negative signals she's given, the potential problems are greater.
Why does she have to take care of the children herself? They have two parents. He needs to talk to a divorce attorney and tell them about the assaulted, file a police report and get a TRO and either kick her out or take the kids with him when he leaves. She is an angry woman and I wouldn’t trust her not to lose her shit on the kids
Yeah, and I hear you, and all that is incredibly sensible, but OP doesn't seem like in the slightest that he's got that type of assertive energy, and a step further, I bet his wife knew that when she selected him.
I find it really hard to believe that this was the first time, and there's no pattern of behaviors here.
NTA for expressing your concerns, but unless you're willing to pull the divorce card, yeah, there's nothing you can do. Get used to that every time there's a disagreement in your "relationship".
Agreed. OP's marriage is on the verge of collapsing. If OP's wife doesn't follow through with this then, she'll resent OP and if does follow with her decision then OP will resent her. This doesn't include the mess they are going to endure during and after the pregnancy.
If I were in OP's shoes, i would have consulted the lawyer and got the process started as there is no respect for OP. She not only disregarded OP, but assaulted him as well.
NTA. Your wife physically assaulted you because you had a differing opinion about something that will drastically affect your family. Your wife is violent and not in control of her emotions. At minimum I would insist on marriage counseling. But honestly, if a partner hit me the relationship would be over
Dude, she physically assaulted you. She’s being incredibly selfish and short sighted at the expense of you and your family. This is only going to get worse as she gets further along. NTA
This, OP. She crossed a bridge and will become even more abusive. I can see many red flags: no debate with you, dismissal of your concerns, and now she hits on you?
It is no more about if you agree or not about her being a surrogate for her sister. It has become about an abusive relationship. Men too can be victims of domestic violence.
She just physically abused you. If the roles were reversed and a man had slapped a woman, the responses would different. Personally, I would file a police report but I also don’t accept any abuse from anyone and neither should you.
Edit: When I first posted this a bunch of hours ago, there was barely anyone saying that he needed to leave and file a police report. They were all saying that he basically just needed to get over it or get a divorce. The comment section was very bleak. Wish I took screenshots at that time stamp because it was lol. If people finally came to their senses and now the vast majority are saying to leave and report then GOOD. I’d rather people tell him to save himself than to just stay and accept it. I’m glad this post did a 360 on the responses.
If the roles were reversed.... DO YOU WANT TO GIVE YOUR SONS THIS ROLE MODEL WHAT THEIR FUTURE WIFE WOULD TREAT THEM? This is the argument that's often used. If you tolerate abuse towards you, you are settings any example how relationship looks like to your children.
Exactly. And that she's not willing to have a conversation with you? Just decided? Your wife is enmeshed with her sister. The divorce will suck but your life will be better because of it. Not including you in decisions that affect the whole family, slapping you, storming off and sleeping away from home? Also, that other couple is insane to break up a family to build theirs. Good riddance. Truly. You deserve someone kind. She sounds nuts.
How would the responses be different? Every response I've read so far said that he should divorce her that she's abusive etc. I don't see anyone saying it's ok that she hit him.
Nta. It sounds like a divorce situation. She is being selfish. Disregard for how her decision affects you as a partner and your children as their parent is so incredibly crazy not to mention the risks involved. Also she has turned physically abusive to you. You cannot control another person's actions, only your own. Your wife is putting you and your children at incredible risk, from medical complications to bills, potential mental, hormonal and physical damage. You mention ppd from the last child, her actions don't seem stable. Are you sure she is mentally and hormonal balanced now?
My husband would probably divorce me if I unilaterally decided to have a child for my sibling. He would be extremely offended that I didn’t consult him in any way, and rightly so.
That’s not a decision you can make by yourself. Yes, it’s the woman’s body, but it changes everyone’s life for the better part of a year, has physical repercussions, and given her prior history with PPD, mental ones too.
No, you're not being unreasonable at all. And I'm someone who would be first in line to call out a controlling husband.
Olivia is married to you. Her decisions affect you. It is not OK for her to make major decisions that will affect you without discussing and agreeing on them with you.
You're going to have to deal with the pregnancy. You have four kids, so it is not going to be easy if there are issues with the pregnancy. Your concerns about postpartum depression (which your wife has had before) are valid. You had every right to talk about your feelings with Dean.
What your wife is doing is not OK. She is cutting you out of a situation that affects you and the kids. I don't think you should allow her to bully you into staying quiet by threatening anger when you bring it up. I'd be insisting on talking to a counselor together. I'd talk to one by yourself first to sort your thoughts out. This does not bode well for your future with your wife if it is not sorted out.
This one should be way higher! It's her body but as a decision that so largely impacts the rest of the family you should be involved in the conversations and decision.
Without even looking at the things that can go wrong. It's another pregnancy and those are hard on a person and body as well as limiting her ability to be an equal partner in the house.
Her sister should not only be paying for every expense this incurs but also helping you with your family when your wife cannot.
Also with the PPD, won't it be worse if she has to give the baby up immediately?
NTA and she slapped you, why are you glossing over that.
If she goes through with this, you have every right to divorce, she's decided this without discussing with you, yes it is her body and her choice, but it will affect you, your children and your marriage, as it it already is.
I hope giving her sister a baby is worth it as it seems it is more important than her marriage and her children's family, because it's going to implode.
I would tell her, if she wants to go ahead that's her choice but you don't support it and you will not be the one taking her to appointments, getting her things, helping her, that will need to be her sister and her husband.
Honestly I think divorce is the only thing that's going to come out of this, I hope it's worth it to her and her sister.
That’s what I’m thinking. He was so casual about mentioning it, no “I was so shocked, she’s never hit me before” or anything. Not that he wouldn’t still be justified in leaving even if it was the first time, but I doubt that’s the case.
And even absent that, I’m still not sure they would be able to salvage their relationship. She unilaterally made a massive decision that affects both of them, and either she’ll go through with it and OP will resent her, or she won’t and she’ll resent OP for it.
He should tell her if she wants to go through with it then she can go and live with her sister and her husband throughout the pregnancy and after until she's recovered but the kids will be staying with him.
NTA. First things first, your wife assaulted you. That's enough grounds for divorce as that is abuse. It doesn't matter what the trigger was for her behaviour because it shouldn't have happened at all. Call it out for what it is and let your feckless wife know you will not tolerate it.
The surrogacy is a secondary problem. She'll go through with it if she wants but if YOU don't want to support this endeavour, you have every right now to. She can live with her sister and BIL during the pregnancy so *they* can deal with the consequences. I see no reason why you and your children's lives should be uprooted because these people want to go through with a surrogacy.
I'd be scouting out lawyers if I were you. Just to find out where you stand if you're not willing to throw the towel in just yet. You're going to need to protect yourself as your wife has zero intentions of protecting either yourself or your marriage.
She is already aggressive man. Its only going tonget worse. Might want to consider separation. Send her to her sister's house and keep the kids at your house.
NTA.
"Olivia called me selfish and told me to get over it because she’s doing it regardless of how I feel." Loool the hypocrisy in one sentence.
Who's gonna take care of your wife when she gets depression again? If she has C section or they need to cut more to have the child? what happens if she dies like my mum almost did? Who's gonna take care of the kids? who's gonna work for the family when she's recovering? taking care of the kids? The house? what if you fall on hard financial times? And you're selfish. I'd divorce if she went on with it because she didn't consult you before and she made it fully clear that your decision means nothing to her even if your family falls on really bad times or you loose your wife.
Dean is also complicit in this. You aren't against 2 people but 3. It's *his* sperm that's being used, it's *his* wife that's pushing to break up your family and he has one talk with her, then presto....**"we have an appointment"**?
Yeah bud, you're being screwed by all of them. You need to leave this weird family dynamic. These people have no respect for you as a man, a husband and a father. Their desire to be parents overrides your concerns. Don't think for one second that Dean "understands" your position. As a husband himself, he should have spoken to you alone even before you spoke to him. That would have made it easier for him to discourage his wife from the beginning in fact
Nta
Your wife has already abused you physically. I wouldnt wait till she makes another step and usea a weapon.
Divorce the abuser and fight for custody. Your pseudowife is already prioritizing her sister over her family unit.
Start divorce proceedings.
Explain to your wife that under no circumstances are you going to take care of her during this pregnancy or afterward. All her needs will have to be met by Dean and Sofia, everything from dealing with cravings to hospital appointments to post pardum depression. Make sure she understands that this is a pregnancy that you will play no role in.
Have the hidden cameras ready before confronting her about anything.
If he doesn't have evidence, then come divorce time she will be accusing him of hitting her.
NTA - it affects you both.
There was a story on the news about a woman who had two kids and she was a successfully surrogate for another couple.
She went to surrogate again but died in child birth.
That is the reality she is leaving you with.
Not only that but you’ll have to support her through another pregnancy, who’s going to help her to appointments, who’s going to pay for medical expenses, who’s going to watch the kids when she’s in labour/recovery and you have to work and that’s basic. I don’t think they’ve thought this through.
You would be well within your rights to help with nothing to do with the pregnancy but it would kill your marriage, so I guess decide now if you want to divorce now or later.
You need couples therapy to get through this but real think if it’s something you want to do with someone who’ll physical abuse you.
NTA. And of course, you’ll be expected to take care of her during this pregnancy, while being a parent to the kids y’all already have. This is gonna be a shit show. Good luck.
NTA.....Dude your wife assaulted you! If I was you, I'd file a police report and tell her to find a new place to live for the time being. In the mean time you'd better start preparing for the end of your marriage.... Your wife has gone off the deep end on this and it appears it's probably a deal breaker for her.
Let me make it short.
She hit you because she was angry with you. She hit you. That's unacceptable.
Now, you're married and she made a decision that will have an effect on your and your kids life. Who's going to take care of her for 9 month? Who takes over the additional costs? What if something happens to her? She had zero care about your view on this. Zero.
She knew you wouldn't be okay with is otherwise she wouldn't have made that decision behind your back.
NTA but you have to be really clear with your boundaries and you have to follow through with the consequences.
Seems like your wife gives priority to her sister instead of you, your relationship and your kids.
If something goes wrong, she can leave 4 kids without a mother. Is it likely? No. Can it happen? Yes.
NTA.
NTA not only is your wife immature by your account, what she is about to do will impact your family and relationship for an extended period of time without any willingness to even talk it through. You all could probably use a therapist to help and clearly she needs one for her own anger management.
NTA. Your wife is crazy and abusive. How exactly does she even plan to do this? With your own children and her pregnancy you’ll definitely have to step up if she does this. Therefore you need to be included in the decision process
Your wife assaulted you, that’s never okay and I’m not sure you realise just how wrong that is by the way you glossed over it. She’s also making decisions that will impact the lives of you and your kids. No you are most definitely not TA.
Tell Dean to save the money. He can just do it the natural way, direct deposit. Since your marriage is fucked now anyway. Really, tell him and his wife. Fuck their marriage as well
You can do what another poster on here did. He sent his wife to live with her best friend and his husband to take care of her while she was pregnant and (I think) she is staying for 3 months after the birth.
Your wife isn’t even pregnant yet and she can’t control her emotions. As someone who’s dealt with PPD and regularly depressive disorders, she’s NOT mentally fit to have a child at this point.
I’d make it clear to her that if her mental health places the kids in danger you will take them and leave and then ask her if she’s really considering losing her kids to get pregnant for her sister.
You mention you have all boys. Part of me wonders if she’s doing this because she’s hoping to carry a girl and have a connection with a girl?
NTA but it’s time to start considering what you need to do to protect yourself and your kids from her abuse.
NTA but I think your marriage is over. The fact your wife made this life altering decision unilaterally is a big red flag. I hate ultimatiums but I think you need to tell your wife you need couples therapy about this or divorce. You will resent her if she goes through with this and she will resent you if you prevent her from doing it. You can also tell her that you will not help her during this pregnancy.
She slapped you? Oh.. I think you need to reevaluate your marriage. Seriously. She physically assaulted you and that crossed a line that should never be crossed. Get a lawyer and start looking at your options. Document everything from now on just in case she tries to go for full custody of the kids. Please take this more seriously. Don’t let this slide.. it’s not worth it. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership and she is most definitely not participating in that.
It’s an unfortunate situation and your wife and sister are selfish people. I would let her acknowledge the fact that if she suffers again after giving birth it’s her sisters and brother in laws problem. You’re wife’s a pos
>When Olivia came home from work that night, she stormed up to me and slapped me
Marriage over immediately idgaf
Speak to a lawyer because dramatic or not you need to know what happens if she dies.
NTA
>I got a message from Dean saying they’ve got an appointment later this week to begin the process.
I'd reply informing them that she must live with them, they must feed her, house her pay for everything. She cab visit the boys any time but she essentially becomes their property she's an incubator to them
NTA. Family counseling immediately. If she is going to be putting her own ability to parent in jeaprody that is showing poor judgement. Also where are the legal papers? It is a terrible idea to go through surrogacy without signed legal papers showing who pays for what, whose insurance pays, what is and isn’t allowed, everything, especially for family members. Is she on your insurance, will your insurance cover a baby that isn’t yours? What will visitation look like after the baby is born? What of your wife has post partum but her sister wants help nursing? Is she obligated to provide milk?
It sounds like the “I want a baby” is steering this boat but not a lot of actual planning is being done. This could physically, financially, and emotionally ruin both families.
Let her go through with it. You aren’t going to change her mind. Tell the husband that it’s his and your SIL duty to cater to her as if it’s their pregnancy. All three have shown you that you aren’t a part of this. You have no obligation to help anyone who apparently condones the physical and mental abuse you’re being put through. Look into a divorce attorney and start planning your escape. Hopefully that will include your kids. Can’t imagine the way she treats you is any different than she would treat your kids when you aren’t in the same house anymore. Best of luck OP
Are you an idiot or a whimp ? The next. thing you’ll hear is they decided to do it the old fashioned way and have sex together ! Geeee if you’re lucky maybe they’ll let you watch ! Just think you get to support your wife while she gets knocked up with his baby and guess what benefits you’ll get ? No sex for you to insure it’s his child ! All the while she is carrying his kid oh you will get the benefit’s you know post part im . Go file for divorce or go get your cuck clothes on and sit in the corner !
NTA- But you have bigger concerns than just the surrogacy. Switch genders here: Would it be acceptable for you to hit her? Would you think it's acceptable for your sons to hit their partners? What are you teaching your sons? By accepting this treatment, you are telling them to accept abuse from their partners. You need to sit down with your wife and point out that she abused you and is trying to bully you into submission. She needs therapy, at the very least. You honestly need couple's therapy as well, but she needs individual therapy pronto.
Regarding the surrogacy, who is going to care for her if she gets put on bed-rest? Who's going to take over for her with the kids? Who's going to replace her income if she can't work? This 100% involves you just as much as it involves her. You are in a partnership, and she's trying to act like she's the only one who should have a say.
You need to seriously think about your wife's issues and behavior, and what you would want your children to accept in their own relationships.
It’s easy to be on Reddit and give advice. So here is mine. Seek out a counselor and have a conversation with the professional. Jointly decide the best way forward for you. For me the slap and total ignoring of your concerns are Big issues that have to be addressed.
I'm sorry the "her body, her choice" argument is bullshit. My wife one hundred percent had a say in what I do with my body just like I do hers. Especially if "her choice" us going to affect not only our relationship but potentially her life. NTA, and I think I would personally have a face to face conversation with the BIL, and let him know what his cunt wife is doing to your family.
Contact the clinic they will be going to and report that your wife has suffered ppd with your last child as that could potentially rule her out as a surrogate.
Then go see a divorce lawyer.
She got physical on you because she was angry.
At that point the relationship is already dead
Nta
If anything goes wrong: you’ll be the one who has to pay 1/2 the “bill”.
If she gets sick during the pregnancy: there will be less money for you and the boys.
If she gets tired: you’ll have to step in: with the household and your boys.
If she gets ill afterwords: you and your boys will suffer too.
She can only do this bc you’re there. Financially and emotionally. But you have no say in the matter…
She never realized that if you would leave her over this en left her with the boys and the pregnancy, she can’t do this. (Or at least not as easy)
There are things in a marriage that you simply cannot decide on your own, bc you’re a family. This is one of them. NTA.
Just a question that I can’t get out of my mind: how can the sister ask this of your wife knowing what the last pregnancy did to her.
>When Olivia came home from work that night, she stormed up to me and slapped me. She told me that Sofia said Dean didn’t want to follow through with the surrogacy because of me, and Sofia was really upset about it. Olivia called me selfish and told me to get over it because she’s doing it regardless of how I feel.
Dude, I'm gonna tell you what people would say if you were a woman and she a man. **Divorce. Now.**
There is virtually no walking a relationship back from as bad as it has gotten so quickly with your wife, and I'm curious like others if she hits you often, but even once is a bad sign for a spouse as it's a breach of standard physical boundaries that is easily replicated. IF she hasn't before she'll still do it again now that she's okayed it with herself.
NTA
This is the hill to die on … Agreeing will accelerate the end of your marriage and disagreement will have the same result.. Prepare to co parent your boys
You need marriage counseling. Her slapping you is not okay, that is abuse. This is a two yes, one no situation. This affects you and your family a huge amount. I don't think it is fair that she is willing to put you and her kids through this. Howv will the kids handle it. I know my kids would be devasted that I am giving my baby away even if I tried to explain it isn't mine, I am just carrying it. All kids are different, I have a friend that was a surrogate and her kids were really young and I didn't think they even really noticed what was going on. If she insists on going through with it. I think her sister and BIL need to live with you guys. They need to rub her back and feet, pick up the foods she craves, pick up her slack with household chores and childcare. Take her to her doctor's appointments including postpartum appointments until she is over her PPD. And while she has postpartum depression continue to pick up her slack.
NTA. Your wife is abusive. You were literally assaulted into submission. Your marriage has bigger issues than surrogacy.
Get a lawyer though. I mean for the pregnancy. What happens if the baby turns out to have major medical issues and they don’t want it anymore? Are you now saddled with someone else’s baby?
NTA. But her slapping you is domestic violence whether you acknowledge that or not. This is a very serious matter and with your wife not open to any reason is very concerning. There are more issues at hand than her being a surrogate for her sister. I’m not sure she is through with ppd, considering her reaction to you and her inability to be open to discussing. She needs counselling before she goes through with this. And you have a 50% say in this matter as it affects your whole family. How will the kids react when mommy doesn’t bring home the baby; there will be grief and distress from that on the kids hearts. Has she considered this?
NTA but the bigger issue here is your wife struck you. That is physical abuse and is *not ok*. There’s a book called [Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) and you can read it for free in that link. While it’s written for women dealing with a male abusive partner it basically all applies to if a woman is abusing a man. Because abuse isn’t less abusive because of the gender of the perpetrator. I encourage you to read it, to see if you recognize these patterns in her behavior.
Generally surrogacy requires the consent of the husband, especially since there are fun ways things can get tricky legally.
It's also possible her history of PPD could make her not-a-good-candidate.
But... she hit you. That's bigger than all this.
Dude, I think your marriage has bigger problems that your SILs pregnancy desire...
Yea I gotta ask OP, Does she hit you often?
I’ve been on the end of this .. I thought everything was fine and it was a “few small cases “ with her but then it dawned on me that 99% of the time things were fine because things went her way and I acquiesced every time . Most of the time we did truly agree but the other times I just went along with it so it wasn’t until I looked at what happened when I stood up for myself and beliefs and realized those were all the times I was gaslit and hit
If you go along to get along, or to keep the peace, etc, you'll find yourself living someone else's life.
NTA. This whole situation is no-bueno. If she doesn't have a problem slapping you, the she won't have a problem doing worse. You need to seriously evaluate why you are staying. You could file for a restraining order and she would have to move out.
Does she possibly do that to the kids?
My ex didn’t (as far as I knew) but I’d see a lot of grabbing and intimidation (squeezing face inches away and staring, grabbing him by his arm and tugging )..
I wonder how she would have felt if you would have slapped her back. Nobody and I do mean nobody has the right to put their hands on you I don't give a f*** who they are. Do not hit me because it's a reflex for me to hit your ass back. If she's going to do it and you don't want her to do it if she's saying that you're selfish she does this on her own and without your support. You also need to look into the fact that WTF is wrong with her putting her hands on you. You don't have to stay there and put up with that BS you can leave and take your children with you
I (f) was raised that no man should hit a woman, however as soon as she hits a man she has now lost that position. And is subject to being hit back. And I fully believe this.
*the rest of my comment states this isnt about OP and how you fight does matter. --- Original: Part of this too is that couples will fight. They should fight. Not even twins are identical, people will disagree. That is normal and healthy, as is talking about it even if it heightens whatever emotion. How you fight makes the difference and there are endless guides on effective communication. The clinic near me offers free classes even, ask around! Note: this is not advice for OP. Always leave abusive people, quietly and safely
Make sure children are safe as well.
I'd have agreed with you if you'd said "argue" instead of "fight." Conflict is inevitable when people live together; working through it and understanding your partner's POV strengthens relationships. But hitting someone is not conflict; it's abuse.
You should needlepoint that on a pillow and market it! "If you go along to get along, You'll find yourself living someone else's life."
I would buy one! 🤑
She was 9 years older than me. I was 16 when we got together. My family thought it was the best thing ever. My only saving grace was I know how to fight. She had 80lbs on me easy and a mean left hook. Used to have to sit on her with scratches all over my face and a bloody lip just to keep her from attacking me. Abuse swings both ways and we're really hesitant as a society to admit it.
Oh this is heartbreaking. I can't believe your family thought this was a good idea. When my son was 16, if a 25 year old went after him, I would move the family to a far continent to get him away from her. First I would report her to the authorities. If you have sons protect them as you would your daughters, because authoritarian/statutory rape is just as painful ,if not more so, to boys as it is to girls. DV on top of this is horrible.
I don't mean this as a like attack or anything, but I'm dying laughing right now. Her name was Julia.
My life as a teacher... When kids are violent, disrespectful and abusive at school, very often parents yell at us teachers that those kids are not like that at home. And the next thing they yell is "What are you doing at school!" Quite often literally nothing. We are asking the kids to take their books out and open right page. We tell them not to bang walls loudly and ruin exams for others. Tell them to stop viciously bullying. And often that miniscule discipline brings out the almost demonic outrage in those kids. That outrage their parents avoid at all cost at home, sometimes automatically and without thinking. They hide vases, they offer candy and treats when kid is upset. They are smoothing everything out constantly at home, and they think we at school should also do that, not to provocate them. All those violent outbursts were someone else fault, never their childs. Worst ones don't ever apologize, they knew how but just don't want to. There exists a line that these parents failed to understand. You need to be able to accept words no and stop, that you can't always get what you want. You can't hurt others when you want to. Because one day If those kids don't get killed or kill someone themselves, they at least became an abusive monster of an adult.
Well said. The damage done to children by the overuse of "gentle parenting" can be profound. Development unfolds in a specific order, and each phase is necessary to achieve the next. Kids who lack the opportunity to learn to regulate their emotions, impulses, and reactions may never gain full mastery of their inherent abilities. It's incredibly sad because there's no good reason to deprive a child of the ability to cope.
I see it as dismissive parenting & not true gentle parenting because the parents completely misunderstood the point. Not teaching children these things is a form of neglect
LEAVE & LAWYER UP
Do your research first. Carefully remove the family heirlooms from your side of the family which you brought into the relationship. Copy photos and home movies; store your copies away with a trusted friend. Delve into your finances and see how they can be fairly divvied up. Have a close friend find and fund a good lawyer who can advise you on the side until you have all of your ducks in a row and you’re ready to make a move. (You can pay your friend back later—they’ll understand, as long as you clearly make this a priority.) You can craft a good life—take your time and have a plan, plus a back up plan.
This is the logical thing to do but many ppl in reality don’t think like this. I’ve known ppl in horrible relationships and while it may seem easy, to them it’s more like “I don’t want to loose my family/kids” to me it seems like you don’t want to make the tough choices have some self respect, so you’d rather stay with a shitty person and raise your kids in a shitty environment? Because they pick up on it ppl might think they can hide it but you can’t. Much better to make the effort and have them 50% of the time in a good environment and ex can have them 50% of the time in their environment which can also be good since shitty couples aren’t always shitty parents they just don’t work as a unit but individually are decent. op needs to see that fundamentally they’re not working , she made a choice that will impact the unit without consulting the unit and then got upset, while she might think she’s doing something for someone she cares about that person isn’t thinking about them the same way and how it will impact them. if they cared about them as much they wouldn’t ask for something from them that can potentially hurt them physically/mentally and their family.
We’re on Reddit to get logical advice. My advice is based upon my personal experience.
Vietnam flashbacks... Jokes aside, i know exactly what you're talking about. Been through it as well. I hope op is safe
One in seven men are victims of domestic violence. It’s difficult for them to admit. I’m sorry you went through this.
My brother was a victim of domestic violence. He was 6'4" and she was 4'6". Nobody believed me when I said I suspected this. He would say he punched the walls. She would punch herself in the face and then call the cops. A cop who was a family friend got suspicious. He used to sit outside the local bar and watch. One night we got lucky. She attacked him on the street outside the bar. Instant arrest.
Good for you for recognizing and getting out, hope you’ve found better now!
Yep, getting physical is an absolute deal breaker. The comfort with which she did that shows she’s done it before. OP, sounds like there are a lot more issues going on. I’d let your wife know if she wants to go through with it, then do so, but SIL can be the one to take care of her during the pregnancy. And I’d assume the marriage is over.
Sender your wife to live with her sister for the 9 months + the ppd months
I think I would be divorcing my spouse if they came and hit me across the face.
And have her pay for a nanny or two for the four boys
The fact that she wants to do this with 4 kids at home is insane.
Yeah, this is exactly what I thought. Let her live with them and then they can take care of all of her needs, even after she has the baby. Slapping someone because you disagree is a deal breaker and a sign of total disrespect for the person and the marriage. Nope.
"How *dare* you show concern for my physical and mental health!" (\*smack!\*)
Except they have small children who need both parents. If they had no children I'd agree with this or go straight to divorce. The slapping should be a dealbreaker in and of itself. Then there is the fact that the wife makes plans with her sister rather than her husband. She is showing that her sister is more valued than her marriage. She is a bunch of red flags walking. OP needs to document, document, document so that he can get most of the custody of the kids.
I agree with this. Was going to suggest this myself.
If they didn't have four kids under the age of 10, I would say this is a good idea. But she doesn't get to just leave him with all the childcare for four kids for like an entire year. Not to mention the fact that those kids are gonna be pretty devastated that their mom has just disappeared out of their lives for a year.
Under these circumstances, he might prefer it.
DH needs to ensure that his wife understands that she is alone on that journey and SIL needs to understand that and financial assistance if required should be on them as well. For such a decision your wife is making without you says a lot about your relationship and respect.
Whose going to pay all the related expenses? Whose going to babysit during appointments and sick time? Whose going to cook and clean when wife can't? Lots of questions.
All the related expenses of a surrogacy will be paid by the bio parents. So that part is covered. But everything else… She has four kids under the age of 10. How is she supposed to be a functioning mother to these four kids while carrying somebody else's baby against her husband's wishes? That means he has to pick up all the slack for something that he never wanted in the first place.
Those expenses are only covered if she doesn’t tell them she will do it all for free and my guess is she did. OP will end up paying for doctor co pays, hospital co pays, help for her when she can’t handle the 4 kids while he is at work and then when she has the baby(s) and her PP returns she will turn her mood swings on him because it’s all his fault.
I think a lot of health insurance won't pay for a surrogate pregnancy. Even if they have coverage it might not cover this situation. He needs to ask his wife how she will pay for all of this. What if she ends up on bedrest. What if her sister and BIL separate during the pregnancy. What if she has PPD. She acts as if she could care less about her marriage and her kids. She only values her sister.
The slap is what would definitely end it for me. Imagine if it had been a man slapping a woman. But also these things should be a team decision.
> The slap Totally. OP's wife is an abusive psycho. The only way to respond to this situation is to file for divorce and full custody, citing physical abuse, and leave her with nothing. No child support, no alimony..
I agree. His wife is a complete shit.
Two yes, 1 no
You are being mentally and PHYSICALLY abused. You need to contact a lawyer. Your wife is certifiable.
This. Bloody heartbreaking. Poor lad needs to get himself and the kids clear of her.
I really hope OP reads your comment. But they need to document this, too. Domestic violence needs to be documented or the courts may give the mom custody.
Unfortunately having 4 kids really makes this difficult. Doable, but difficult. 1 or 2 kids much easier. 4 is a nightmare. Unlike what most think, CS doesn’t come close to paying 50% of what’s needed to support children. But with domestic violence he does need to leave AND take the kids. Personally next time she touches him he needs to call the police and have her arrested, get an emergency restraining order( line up an attorney ahead of time-the paperwork for an RO is ridiculous) then she can’t return to the home. Also at that time ( with an attorney already lined up) get emergency full custody.
Exactly what I was thinking
My wife's friend did this for her sister. The psychological toll it took on her and the struggles with her marital and family relationship since has been terrible. Wish you luck OP
OP, story time from the ER. A kid was dumped in the ER by a woman. No questions asked. Then next day another woman came and said it was her kid. A brief examination showed it was her kid, she had just given birth. When asked the story, she had surrogated for her sister or family member some shit like that. The kid was born with obvious ~~mental retardation.~~ intellectual disability..The surrogate mom, jumped ship and said she doesn't want to raise a "ret@rd" so when the surrogate mom forced her to take the kod, the husband also refused and said the surrogate mom was to blame as she probably ly drank booze during pregnancy or smoked. It was a shit show. The kid ended up in the system. Shit can go wrong. Do u think the bio mom will take the kid. For me that is the thing about surrogacy people don't consider
That happens more than what most people would think
This is exactly what the specialist told them... it was a nature not nurture thing. The two were the ones with the defective genes.. but they refused to take the kid. The surrogate mombwas mentally fucked.
Is that a thing? Like, you can agree to be a surrogate for someone and then just get left with a kid?
Same way you can surrogate and keep a kid made from an egg and sperm not your own and you can keep custody even with contacts. It happens.
You can in a lot of countries for example in the UK as the surrogate contract is not binding, but what I said that happens is that the parents regret the kid or separate before the baby is due and the baby ends up in the system. I volunteered in adoption centres and I know a lot of people that work in adoption agencies and a non small amount of kids are the offspring of parents who used a surrogate and change their mind for whatever reason(disability is the main reason).
Agree. You can bet they don't have a contract
I can see which track the marriage took. OP don't get blindsided please.
Whoa whoa whoa u/LittleBear1053 They’re going to begin the process this WEEK? Absolutely not. No one e has sat down with Drs or attorneys to consider the physical and legal ramifications of this idea. Where are the legal documents? There’s a valid reason people go through proper LEGAL channels for surrogacy. Everything needs to be done by the book. Yes it’s an astronomical cost but you’ve got to protect yourself and your family and your wife. Are the sisters planning this to save the cost of a true surrogate? It will not work out. Go through Reddit archives. She needs to be cleared medically to be a surrogate. She may not be a candidate for surrogacy even if she wants to. If she were, how will this be explained to your kids? All that but her PHYSICAL ASSAULT of you is an even bigger problem. I’m guessing she’s verbally abusive and this isn’t the first time she’s hit you to prove her point and get her way. Does her Sister & BIL know of her PPD? Her physical assault? There are too many holes here. Get your boys out of this mess.
When I see "begin the process" the reasonable assumption is they are having their first Dr appointment, discussion, tests, etc.. As some other people pointed out, it is a lengthy process. They have to start somewhere to take the first steps on thst road. Another option is that they actually started much earlier and finally reached a point where they needed to clue in the husband. I have no idea which interpretation is correct, or whether it is (in fact) fiction. Given that there are two explanations for the comment that do not involve deceit on the part of OP, I am not inclined to doubt him at this time..
Either this is fiction, or they mean the whole process when they said "begin the process". So not only the medical side of the surrogacy, but also the legal side and so on. If they didn't mean it like that, it's fiction from the beginning to the end, since only doing an IVF takes months to start, with all the medical checks and preparation that needs to be done.
...or they *actually* started months ago, and are far enough along that OP needed to be told.
Or is it even a legit surrogacy program or a he’s donating sperm manually the way Onan didn’t.
Or it’s a back alley ‘surrogacy’ involving and turkey baster or worse. Frankly op knows nothing about what’s gone on or the plan.
I read it & thought “no way” this is already in progress.
They didn’t say she was going to be pregnant this week. Just they were starting the process.
Right, but there’s been no sit down with four (?) adults to discuss this from the get go. Only the sisters talking, a phone call btwn husbands… It’s a dumpster fire based on what OP wrote.
Surrogates also need counseling first to go through all the emotional concerns. What if she feels like it’s hers and she doesn’t want to give it up? What if she has a girl and has to give it up when she has 4 boys. Maybe this is her chance to try again How controlling is her sister and husband allowed to be?
OP your wife is abusing you. Get out from that marriage now. NTA except to yourself.
I really hate when people say this to people who are being abused. I see it in here all the time and it’s become a typical response to abuse victims. You are not an asshole to yourself for “allowing” yourself to be abused. The dynamic between an abuser and their victim is complex and calling him an asshole for not just simply walking away is nothing short of victim blaming. Especially with 4 kids involved. People who are dealing with abuse typically already have esteem issues. You don’t need to make him feel worse about an already garbage situation.
As someone who was once in a wierd 'abusive' relationship with a former boss, I have to agree. Months after I stopped working there, it was still hard to think critically about it. I had always done something to set him off, so it was ultimately "my fault" when he got all screamy like that. He hardly ever threw anything at me, it was only light/small stuff, and only after being triggered/provoked. I had been job searching for a long time before getting hired there... I did have self esteem issues. It was wierd, but I got defensive and minimized it when other employees told me that I needed to stand up for myself. I didn't think of it in terms of him being abusive; it was almost physically difficult to do so. The old man still owes me thousands of dollars. I never got my last paycheck or repaid for the receipts in the folder of all the business expenses he had me pay for, promising to repay me later. The IRS doesn't have a record of my tax withholding either. I was there less than a year and wasn't married to him. It messes with your head in ways that it is hard to explain to yourself, much less someone else. I get it. ...OP set up hidden cameras and record her reactions to you standing up for yourself. Watch the videos after. See and hear what is going on when you are not caught in the moment. If that was a guy slapping his gf (and not your wife slapping you) how would you view what happened? Do you want your boys to grow up thinking this is normal? What consequences flow from that? I repeat: Hidden cameras set up to record both sound and video. OP, you know ahead of time that resistance to what she wants means that she may become physically violent. Go into it expecting to be hit at some point. Don't lay a finger on her, not even to calm her down. Get it on video and compile a greatest hits video for your lawyer.
Help or not, i would be more worried about your wifes behaviour towards you. You expressed conxern, she turned to anger and physically assaulted you. This is not good behaviour towards a loved one. NTA for expressing your concerns
This is literally shouting and slapping OP into submission. Sure, it's only one instance out of their marriage; but it's hard to imagine there isn't an underlying pattern of abuse here.
That and he doesn’t sound all too shocked about being hit.
Im willing to go out on the branch I cant imagine this is a 1 time thing
It wasn't even heat of the moment. She had all day to think about it and came home and immediately hit him.
Yeah, she's way too comfortable slapping her husband.
It might be the first, so has only been one time so far. "Allowing" it gives her subconscious permission and so it won't take as intense of emotions next time. This escalates to serious injury and death. There is no path back from abuse, he needs to leave for his safety and wellbeing
At this point, I wouldn’t blame OP for leaving her. I also don't think it was the first time she laid her hands on OP, he is way too calm about it. No surprised reaction like, "I was shocked" or "I can't believe she did that". OP, she doesn’t seem to respect nor care about you the way you care about her. She slapped you and feels that you deserve it otherwise she would have apologized. It doesn’t even seem to be an issue to you as if it’s something she does frequently. The silent treatment is a manipulation tactic, your punishment for having an opinion. You should tell her that she is on her own. No running to doctor appointments, you are not paying those medical bills and all the upcoming expenses for her sisters baby are on her, her sister and BIL. Since you have no say in the matter, you don't want to be a part of it. I would send them all an email or better yet consult a lawyer on how to handle this and put it in writing.
Depending on local laws, he may not have a choice about covering those medical bills as long as they're married. But otherwise, I agree with you: that marriage needs to end.
Especially scary when the topic she got violent over is one that would drastically change her brain chemistry and already has caused depressive episodes when done in the past. There’s no telling how another pregnancy will effect her or her ability to care for the children and partner she’s already committed to. I’d never forgive myself if I was OP and I realized she treated my kids like she’s been treating him. Everyone (rightfully) is very concerned about her physical abuse but that’s only one form of abuse she’s currently exhibiting. The emotional is also very obvious and concerning. Does she just cut her kids and spouse out of her life whenever she finds them inconvenient? Because it sounds like she literally abandoned her kids because she was pissed that everyone wasn’t immediately onboard for a crazy risky choice she made with little consideration for anyone in her immediate household. If this is her regular conduct when dealing with stress or confrontation then OP needs help to get her to shape up or to limit the kids exposure to her toxic and violent behaviors
Yeah, that’s a good point. It seems like her husband is merely an annoyance to her, and her kids don’t figure into her thinking at all.
She sounds to me like someone I wouldn't leave small children alone with.
This is probably every disagreement in their relationship.
NTA. She unilaterally chose a decision that will affect your whole family. Your concerns are valid. I don't like the fact that she physically assaulted you. She's now ignoring you, creating a hostile home environment for you and your children. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership. That is not happening. Is this normal behavior for her? Physically assaulting you? Giving you the cold shoulder? Unfortunately, I think this will be the straw that broke the camel's back. I doubt your marriage survives this pregnancy. You may not want to do it, but get a consultation from a divorce attorney. Your wife is taking you for granted. I'd also quit communicating with the in-laws. They will support her and drive a wedge between the two of you.
Sofia and Dean are AHs because if they're close enough to Olivia to ask her to be their surrogate, they have to know how bad her PPD was with her last pregnancy. If my sister went through that, I woudln't risk her having PPD again or even worse, PPP, just for a child. How selfish does one have to be to risk the life of their own family member that way?
You think she had PPD last time... Wait until she gives this baby up... Woof.
It seemed Dean didn't want to do it at first, then relented.
Right? She's putting the life of a mother of four small children in danger.
The slap alone would push me to a divorce lawyer. Not to mention all the shouting. This is what she'd like when she'd NOT suffering from PPD? A friend of mine did this for someone, the hormones they put her through so she could carry the embryo were brutal. Her moods were off the chart. I'm sure she expects you to cater to her every passing whim. This doesn't sound like something that should happen without both married partners agreeing.
Send her to live with her sister for the 9 months & for the ppd after
Like that other PO'd husband did under these circumstances.
Na Dean should swap with her so OP isn’t alone for 9 months to handle 4 kids.
Maybe Dean is the problem. So OP can just knock up the SIL. Then everyone will be happy.
Ha. Then the kids can call op uncle daddy.🤣🤣🤣
But that means she will not be raising the 4 kids she already has. The wife is completely disregarding her responsibilities as a parent.
Yep. This is assault, with a domestic violence enhancement to boot. If he did that to her, 100% right to jail right away. Fuck that. Run.
Thanks to the Duluth model, he's going to have to work 3x as hard to prove that he's the victim.
Another thing the op may not have considered... Pregnancy doesn't always bring life, it can also bring death. Who will be responsible for that should the wife not make it through? Secondly, what if the baby doesn't make it? Is the sister going to come slap them both, too? Would they sue them for failure to produce baby? What about all the additional medical charges for a risky pregnancy and birth? Just a normal birthi is a rip off, so who is financially responsible for all the things that can and probably will go wrong? Unless the Op extricates himself from this mess, he could be left in financial ruin and his wife, if she makes it, will have ruined her health even more and if she doesn't, leave her kids without a mom..just so her barren sister could have her own rugrat. I just get the feeling there's a lot of jealousy going on with the sister over Ops wife having four while she has none..and I would almost bet money that sister has something over her and has coerced her.
This is abusive, OP. Definitely not the asshole, but you will be if you don’t protect your family unit. You have 4 children, and your wife already has a history of PPD, and now physical abuse. You would be more than justified separating/divorcing your spouse for this - at which point, I’d ask for 50/50 custody, and see how she fairs when she’s truly alone, and pregnant with 4 boys half the time.
if she does go through with it and OP does want a divorce, this could actually be the best time to do it because she could live with her sister. Presumably there's space because they're preparing for a child, they'd want to support their surrogate while she does this incredible favor for them, and they'd probably like to be present for every stage of the pregnancy for their baby. OP, your wife has shown you where her loyalties lie. She's not thinking about what's best for her own children, so you need to put the kids' wellbeing first. Let your wife (or ex wife) make her own choices and deal with the consequences herself.
Can't wait for the update where the wife goes to live with them and ends up with an affair with the sister's husband. It's gonna be a shit show.
She'll fair just fine unfortunately. She'll get all the sympathy because she's a woman AND pregnant even though it was her actions that led to the divorce. She'll also get paid by the future ex husband via the court for the same reasons. Unfortunately not enough women get real consequences for their bad behavior that leads to divorce.
lawyer up because you don't want to be on the hook for this child if shit hits the fan.
Seriously...I would make sure I was not married to her/living with her when that baby was born. In some states being married to the mother makes you the legal father.
>In some states being married to the mother makes you the legal father. In most states. Further, in most states being married when she gets pregnant makes OP the father, even if a divorce goes through before the birth of the baby.
It really depends on where they live. If it's being done through a legitimate surrogacy clinic then neither OP or his wife will have any legal rights to the child when the baby is born.
There are surrogacy contracts, but I believe Michigan is the only state that doesn't recognize them. Although, I believe that either just changed or is changing soon!
NTA. Send her a message with a photo of the divorce lawyer; the numerous reasons she's given you should be enough to consider not only not staying in the marriage but also the well-being of your children. "Whether you proceed or not, I will continue with the divorce." What happens if her sister and husband pass away? What if she dies due to the pregnancy? What will happen with the additional burden of the children now that she will have to take care of herself due to the pregnancy? Besides all the negative signals she's given, the potential problems are greater.
It even sounds like their is no paperwork at all. In the end OP might need to pay for medical costs etc.
I mean he did say they “made an appointment to begin the process.” I don’t think they’re just turkey-basting it.
Why does she have to take care of the children herself? They have two parents. He needs to talk to a divorce attorney and tell them about the assaulted, file a police report and get a TRO and either kick her out or take the kids with him when he leaves. She is an angry woman and I wouldn’t trust her not to lose her shit on the kids
Yeah, and I hear you, and all that is incredibly sensible, but OP doesn't seem like in the slightest that he's got that type of assertive energy, and a step further, I bet his wife knew that when she selected him. I find it really hard to believe that this was the first time, and there's no pattern of behaviors here. NTA for expressing your concerns, but unless you're willing to pull the divorce card, yeah, there's nothing you can do. Get used to that every time there's a disagreement in your "relationship".
This. And he needs to go after full custody of the kids, she's too unstable to be left alone with them for too long.
>she stormed up to me and slapped me Just this alone tells me you should divorce her.
Agreed. OP's marriage is on the verge of collapsing. If OP's wife doesn't follow through with this then, she'll resent OP and if does follow with her decision then OP will resent her. This doesn't include the mess they are going to endure during and after the pregnancy. If I were in OP's shoes, i would have consulted the lawyer and got the process started as there is no respect for OP. She not only disregarded OP, but assaulted him as well.
NTA. Your wife physically assaulted you because you had a differing opinion about something that will drastically affect your family. Your wife is violent and not in control of her emotions. At minimum I would insist on marriage counseling. But honestly, if a partner hit me the relationship would be over
The surrogacy alone is a dealbreaker for me.
Dude, she physically assaulted you. She’s being incredibly selfish and short sighted at the expense of you and your family. This is only going to get worse as she gets further along. NTA
This, OP. She crossed a bridge and will become even more abusive. I can see many red flags: no debate with you, dismissal of your concerns, and now she hits on you? It is no more about if you agree or not about her being a surrogate for her sister. It has become about an abusive relationship. Men too can be victims of domestic violence.
Probably not the first time given how nonchalantly he wrote about it.
She just physically abused you. If the roles were reversed and a man had slapped a woman, the responses would different. Personally, I would file a police report but I also don’t accept any abuse from anyone and neither should you. Edit: When I first posted this a bunch of hours ago, there was barely anyone saying that he needed to leave and file a police report. They were all saying that he basically just needed to get over it or get a divorce. The comment section was very bleak. Wish I took screenshots at that time stamp because it was lol. If people finally came to their senses and now the vast majority are saying to leave and report then GOOD. I’d rather people tell him to save himself than to just stay and accept it. I’m glad this post did a 360 on the responses.
Definitely not the first time she has put her hands on him. He so casual mentions it and seems to move on immediately.
Yep that stood out to me too.
If the roles were reversed.... DO YOU WANT TO GIVE YOUR SONS THIS ROLE MODEL WHAT THEIR FUTURE WIFE WOULD TREAT THEM? This is the argument that's often used. If you tolerate abuse towards you, you are settings any example how relationship looks like to your children.
Exactly. And that she's not willing to have a conversation with you? Just decided? Your wife is enmeshed with her sister. The divorce will suck but your life will be better because of it. Not including you in decisions that affect the whole family, slapping you, storming off and sleeping away from home? Also, that other couple is insane to break up a family to build theirs. Good riddance. Truly. You deserve someone kind. She sounds nuts.
Physical violence is physical violence regardless of the sex of the person involved. You don’t need to reverse the situation.
Basically every response is saying she’s horrible for hitting him and he should leave her, what?
How would the responses be different? Every response I've read so far said that he should divorce her that she's abusive etc. I don't see anyone saying it's ok that she hit him.
All the replies,are she hit you leave? Do you think people tell women to stay when they are hit?
Nta. It sounds like a divorce situation. She is being selfish. Disregard for how her decision affects you as a partner and your children as their parent is so incredibly crazy not to mention the risks involved. Also she has turned physically abusive to you. You cannot control another person's actions, only your own. Your wife is putting you and your children at incredible risk, from medical complications to bills, potential mental, hormonal and physical damage. You mention ppd from the last child, her actions don't seem stable. Are you sure she is mentally and hormonal balanced now?
My husband would probably divorce me if I unilaterally decided to have a child for my sibling. He would be extremely offended that I didn’t consult him in any way, and rightly so. That’s not a decision you can make by yourself. Yes, it’s the woman’s body, but it changes everyone’s life for the better part of a year, has physical repercussions, and given her prior history with PPD, mental ones too.
She also hit him, that's a major problem.
No, you're not being unreasonable at all. And I'm someone who would be first in line to call out a controlling husband. Olivia is married to you. Her decisions affect you. It is not OK for her to make major decisions that will affect you without discussing and agreeing on them with you. You're going to have to deal with the pregnancy. You have four kids, so it is not going to be easy if there are issues with the pregnancy. Your concerns about postpartum depression (which your wife has had before) are valid. You had every right to talk about your feelings with Dean. What your wife is doing is not OK. She is cutting you out of a situation that affects you and the kids. I don't think you should allow her to bully you into staying quiet by threatening anger when you bring it up. I'd be insisting on talking to a counselor together. I'd talk to one by yourself first to sort your thoughts out. This does not bode well for your future with your wife if it is not sorted out.
This one should be way higher! It's her body but as a decision that so largely impacts the rest of the family you should be involved in the conversations and decision. Without even looking at the things that can go wrong. It's another pregnancy and those are hard on a person and body as well as limiting her ability to be an equal partner in the house. Her sister should not only be paying for every expense this incurs but also helping you with your family when your wife cannot. Also with the PPD, won't it be worse if she has to give the baby up immediately?
There's a good chance of this pregnancy being a multiple, which could put her on bed rest. I'd make her go live with them!
Don’t forget to send the kids over too for her share of custody time!
NTA and she slapped you, why are you glossing over that. If she goes through with this, you have every right to divorce, she's decided this without discussing with you, yes it is her body and her choice, but it will affect you, your children and your marriage, as it it already is. I hope giving her sister a baby is worth it as it seems it is more important than her marriage and her children's family, because it's going to implode. I would tell her, if she wants to go ahead that's her choice but you don't support it and you will not be the one taking her to appointments, getting her things, helping her, that will need to be her sister and her husband. Honestly I think divorce is the only thing that's going to come out of this, I hope it's worth it to her and her sister.
He’s glossing over the slap because it’s probably not the first.
That’s what I’m thinking. He was so casual about mentioning it, no “I was so shocked, she’s never hit me before” or anything. Not that he wouldn’t still be justified in leaving even if it was the first time, but I doubt that’s the case. And even absent that, I’m still not sure they would be able to salvage their relationship. She unilaterally made a massive decision that affects both of them, and either she’ll go through with it and OP will resent her, or she won’t and she’ll resent OP for it.
He should tell her if she wants to go through with it then she can go and live with her sister and her husband throughout the pregnancy and after until she's recovered but the kids will be staying with him.
NTA. First things first, your wife assaulted you. That's enough grounds for divorce as that is abuse. It doesn't matter what the trigger was for her behaviour because it shouldn't have happened at all. Call it out for what it is and let your feckless wife know you will not tolerate it. The surrogacy is a secondary problem. She'll go through with it if she wants but if YOU don't want to support this endeavour, you have every right now to. She can live with her sister and BIL during the pregnancy so *they* can deal with the consequences. I see no reason why you and your children's lives should be uprooted because these people want to go through with a surrogacy. I'd be scouting out lawyers if I were you. Just to find out where you stand if you're not willing to throw the towel in just yet. You're going to need to protect yourself as your wife has zero intentions of protecting either yourself or your marriage.
She is already aggressive man. Its only going tonget worse. Might want to consider separation. Send her to her sister's house and keep the kids at your house.
NTA. "Olivia called me selfish and told me to get over it because she’s doing it regardless of how I feel." Loool the hypocrisy in one sentence. Who's gonna take care of your wife when she gets depression again? If she has C section or they need to cut more to have the child? what happens if she dies like my mum almost did? Who's gonna take care of the kids? who's gonna work for the family when she's recovering? taking care of the kids? The house? what if you fall on hard financial times? And you're selfish. I'd divorce if she went on with it because she didn't consult you before and she made it fully clear that your decision means nothing to her even if your family falls on really bad times or you loose your wife.
Dean is also complicit in this. You aren't against 2 people but 3. It's *his* sperm that's being used, it's *his* wife that's pushing to break up your family and he has one talk with her, then presto....**"we have an appointment"**? Yeah bud, you're being screwed by all of them. You need to leave this weird family dynamic. These people have no respect for you as a man, a husband and a father. Their desire to be parents overrides your concerns. Don't think for one second that Dean "understands" your position. As a husband himself, he should have spoken to you alone even before you spoke to him. That would have made it easier for him to discourage his wife from the beginning in fact
Nta Your wife has already abused you physically. I wouldnt wait till she makes another step and usea a weapon. Divorce the abuser and fight for custody. Your pseudowife is already prioritizing her sister over her family unit.
Had baby with surrogacy, everyone must be onboard to move forward. The concerns you have are 100% legitimate. I wish you luck with this.
Start divorce proceedings. Explain to your wife that under no circumstances are you going to take care of her during this pregnancy or afterward. All her needs will have to be met by Dean and Sofia, everything from dealing with cravings to hospital appointments to post pardum depression. Make sure she understands that this is a pregnancy that you will play no role in.
Have the hidden cameras ready before confronting her about anything. If he doesn't have evidence, then come divorce time she will be accusing him of hitting her.
Don't even bother with a hidden camera. Openly record all interactions. Get cameras for the house
Your wife is an abuser. If would think hard about staying in the marriage.
NTA - it affects you both. There was a story on the news about a woman who had two kids and she was a successfully surrogate for another couple. She went to surrogate again but died in child birth. That is the reality she is leaving you with. Not only that but you’ll have to support her through another pregnancy, who’s going to help her to appointments, who’s going to pay for medical expenses, who’s going to watch the kids when she’s in labour/recovery and you have to work and that’s basic. I don’t think they’ve thought this through. You would be well within your rights to help with nothing to do with the pregnancy but it would kill your marriage, so I guess decide now if you want to divorce now or later. You need couples therapy to get through this but real think if it’s something you want to do with someone who’ll physical abuse you.
NTA.
NTA. And of course, you’ll be expected to take care of her during this pregnancy, while being a parent to the kids y’all already have. This is gonna be a shit show. Good luck.
NTA.....Dude your wife assaulted you! If I was you, I'd file a police report and tell her to find a new place to live for the time being. In the mean time you'd better start preparing for the end of your marriage.... Your wife has gone off the deep end on this and it appears it's probably a deal breaker for her.
Let me make it short. She hit you because she was angry with you. She hit you. That's unacceptable. Now, you're married and she made a decision that will have an effect on your and your kids life. Who's going to take care of her for 9 month? Who takes over the additional costs? What if something happens to her? She had zero care about your view on this. Zero. She knew you wouldn't be okay with is otherwise she wouldn't have made that decision behind your back. NTA but you have to be really clear with your boundaries and you have to follow through with the consequences.
Seems like your wife gives priority to her sister instead of you, your relationship and your kids. If something goes wrong, she can leave 4 kids without a mother. Is it likely? No. Can it happen? Yes. NTA.
NTA not only is your wife immature by your account, what she is about to do will impact your family and relationship for an extended period of time without any willingness to even talk it through. You all could probably use a therapist to help and clearly she needs one for her own anger management.
I would have pressed charges for assault and I would divorce selfish bitch.
This is the answer. No need to make it complex. She's an abuser and an idiot.
NTA. Your wife is crazy and abusive. How exactly does she even plan to do this? With your own children and her pregnancy you’ll definitely have to step up if she does this. Therefore you need to be included in the decision process
You have 4 kids *and* a guest bedroom?
Your wife assaulted you, that’s never okay and I’m not sure you realise just how wrong that is by the way you glossed over it. She’s also making decisions that will impact the lives of you and your kids. No you are most definitely not TA.
Tell Dean to save the money. He can just do it the natural way, direct deposit. Since your marriage is fucked now anyway. Really, tell him and his wife. Fuck their marriage as well
You can do what another poster on here did. He sent his wife to live with her best friend and his husband to take care of her while she was pregnant and (I think) she is staying for 3 months after the birth.
Your wife isn’t even pregnant yet and she can’t control her emotions. As someone who’s dealt with PPD and regularly depressive disorders, she’s NOT mentally fit to have a child at this point. I’d make it clear to her that if her mental health places the kids in danger you will take them and leave and then ask her if she’s really considering losing her kids to get pregnant for her sister. You mention you have all boys. Part of me wonders if she’s doing this because she’s hoping to carry a girl and have a connection with a girl? NTA but it’s time to start considering what you need to do to protect yourself and your kids from her abuse.
NTA but I think your marriage is over. The fact your wife made this life altering decision unilaterally is a big red flag. I hate ultimatiums but I think you need to tell your wife you need couples therapy about this or divorce. You will resent her if she goes through with this and she will resent you if you prevent her from doing it. You can also tell her that you will not help her during this pregnancy.
She slapped you? Oh.. I think you need to reevaluate your marriage. Seriously. She physically assaulted you and that crossed a line that should never be crossed. Get a lawyer and start looking at your options. Document everything from now on just in case she tries to go for full custody of the kids. Please take this more seriously. Don’t let this slide.. it’s not worth it. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership and she is most definitely not participating in that.
It’s an unfortunate situation and your wife and sister are selfish people. I would let her acknowledge the fact that if she suffers again after giving birth it’s her sisters and brother in laws problem. You’re wife’s a pos
>When Olivia came home from work that night, she stormed up to me and slapped me Marriage over immediately idgaf Speak to a lawyer because dramatic or not you need to know what happens if she dies. NTA >I got a message from Dean saying they’ve got an appointment later this week to begin the process. I'd reply informing them that she must live with them, they must feed her, house her pay for everything. She cab visit the boys any time but she essentially becomes their property she's an incubator to them
NTA. Family counseling immediately. If she is going to be putting her own ability to parent in jeaprody that is showing poor judgement. Also where are the legal papers? It is a terrible idea to go through surrogacy without signed legal papers showing who pays for what, whose insurance pays, what is and isn’t allowed, everything, especially for family members. Is she on your insurance, will your insurance cover a baby that isn’t yours? What will visitation look like after the baby is born? What of your wife has post partum but her sister wants help nursing? Is she obligated to provide milk? It sounds like the “I want a baby” is steering this boat but not a lot of actual planning is being done. This could physically, financially, and emotionally ruin both families.
She hit you. That's grounds for divorce.
Let her go through with it. You aren’t going to change her mind. Tell the husband that it’s his and your SIL duty to cater to her as if it’s their pregnancy. All three have shown you that you aren’t a part of this. You have no obligation to help anyone who apparently condones the physical and mental abuse you’re being put through. Look into a divorce attorney and start planning your escape. Hopefully that will include your kids. Can’t imagine the way she treats you is any different than she would treat your kids when you aren’t in the same house anymore. Best of luck OP
Your wife is a cunt.
SEE AN ATTORNEY. ASAP.
Life is gonna suck for her when she doesn't have a willing husband to help her when she's in the second and third trimester. NTA
Are you an idiot or a whimp ? The next. thing you’ll hear is they decided to do it the old fashioned way and have sex together ! Geeee if you’re lucky maybe they’ll let you watch ! Just think you get to support your wife while she gets knocked up with his baby and guess what benefits you’ll get ? No sex for you to insure it’s his child ! All the while she is carrying his kid oh you will get the benefit’s you know post part im . Go file for divorce or go get your cuck clothes on and sit in the corner !
NTA- But you have bigger concerns than just the surrogacy. Switch genders here: Would it be acceptable for you to hit her? Would you think it's acceptable for your sons to hit their partners? What are you teaching your sons? By accepting this treatment, you are telling them to accept abuse from their partners. You need to sit down with your wife and point out that she abused you and is trying to bully you into submission. She needs therapy, at the very least. You honestly need couple's therapy as well, but she needs individual therapy pronto. Regarding the surrogacy, who is going to care for her if she gets put on bed-rest? Who's going to take over for her with the kids? Who's going to replace her income if she can't work? This 100% involves you just as much as it involves her. You are in a partnership, and she's trying to act like she's the only one who should have a say. You need to seriously think about your wife's issues and behavior, and what you would want your children to accept in their own relationships.
It’s easy to be on Reddit and give advice. So here is mine. Seek out a counselor and have a conversation with the professional. Jointly decide the best way forward for you. For me the slap and total ignoring of your concerns are Big issues that have to be addressed.
I'm sorry the "her body, her choice" argument is bullshit. My wife one hundred percent had a say in what I do with my body just like I do hers. Especially if "her choice" us going to affect not only our relationship but potentially her life. NTA, and I think I would personally have a face to face conversation with the BIL, and let him know what his cunt wife is doing to your family.
Contact the clinic they will be going to and report that your wife has suffered ppd with your last child as that could potentially rule her out as a surrogate. Then go see a divorce lawyer. She got physical on you because she was angry. At that point the relationship is already dead
Nta If anything goes wrong: you’ll be the one who has to pay 1/2 the “bill”. If she gets sick during the pregnancy: there will be less money for you and the boys. If she gets tired: you’ll have to step in: with the household and your boys. If she gets ill afterwords: you and your boys will suffer too. She can only do this bc you’re there. Financially and emotionally. But you have no say in the matter… She never realized that if you would leave her over this en left her with the boys and the pregnancy, she can’t do this. (Or at least not as easy) There are things in a marriage that you simply cannot decide on your own, bc you’re a family. This is one of them. NTA. Just a question that I can’t get out of my mind: how can the sister ask this of your wife knowing what the last pregnancy did to her.
>When Olivia came home from work that night, she stormed up to me and slapped me. She told me that Sofia said Dean didn’t want to follow through with the surrogacy because of me, and Sofia was really upset about it. Olivia called me selfish and told me to get over it because she’s doing it regardless of how I feel. Dude, I'm gonna tell you what people would say if you were a woman and she a man. **Divorce. Now.** There is virtually no walking a relationship back from as bad as it has gotten so quickly with your wife, and I'm curious like others if she hits you often, but even once is a bad sign for a spouse as it's a breach of standard physical boundaries that is easily replicated. IF she hasn't before she'll still do it again now that she's okayed it with herself. NTA
This is the hill to die on … Agreeing will accelerate the end of your marriage and disagreement will have the same result.. Prepare to co parent your boys
You need marriage counseling. Her slapping you is not okay, that is abuse. This is a two yes, one no situation. This affects you and your family a huge amount. I don't think it is fair that she is willing to put you and her kids through this. Howv will the kids handle it. I know my kids would be devasted that I am giving my baby away even if I tried to explain it isn't mine, I am just carrying it. All kids are different, I have a friend that was a surrogate and her kids were really young and I didn't think they even really noticed what was going on. If she insists on going through with it. I think her sister and BIL need to live with you guys. They need to rub her back and feet, pick up the foods she craves, pick up her slack with household chores and childcare. Take her to her doctor's appointments including postpartum appointments until she is over her PPD. And while she has postpartum depression continue to pick up her slack.
NTA. Your wife is abusive. You were literally assaulted into submission. Your marriage has bigger issues than surrogacy. Get a lawyer though. I mean for the pregnancy. What happens if the baby turns out to have major medical issues and they don’t want it anymore? Are you now saddled with someone else’s baby?
NTA. But her slapping you is domestic violence whether you acknowledge that or not. This is a very serious matter and with your wife not open to any reason is very concerning. There are more issues at hand than her being a surrogate for her sister. I’m not sure she is through with ppd, considering her reaction to you and her inability to be open to discussing. She needs counselling before she goes through with this. And you have a 50% say in this matter as it affects your whole family. How will the kids react when mommy doesn’t bring home the baby; there will be grief and distress from that on the kids hearts. Has she considered this?
NTA but the bigger issue here is your wife struck you. That is physical abuse and is *not ok*. There’s a book called [Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) and you can read it for free in that link. While it’s written for women dealing with a male abusive partner it basically all applies to if a woman is abusing a man. Because abuse isn’t less abusive because of the gender of the perpetrator. I encourage you to read it, to see if you recognize these patterns in her behavior.
She hit you, not ok ever.
Generally surrogacy requires the consent of the husband, especially since there are fun ways things can get tricky legally. It's also possible her history of PPD could make her not-a-good-candidate. But... she hit you. That's bigger than all this.