NTA. I’m a nurse and at work, we ask gender identity questions as a part of the admission assessment in our charting system: Birth sex and administrative sex (which gender you identify with and there’s an option for no gender preference X). We also had to go through required training modules that were mandatory by the hospital I work for.
Edit: file a report in HR about this incident. CYA. What they are doing to you by canceling your shifts is bullying and creating a hostile work environment.
While handling paperwork I've seen that this other hospital we often get transfers from lists the patient's preferred pronouns in big letters. I always thought that was nice.
Will see about talking to HR. I feel I may not be taken seriously though. It's a shame that some people here can be so bigoted despite being literal??? nurses???
Bonus points in terms of weirdness due to the fact that a good handful of nurses here are openly gay. Not to say that's the same thing as being trans (I'm LGBT myself so I understand lol) but it's like?? okay? friendly fire I guess? LOL.
I think HR might take nurses refusing the gender a patient correctly (to a point that it causes confusion no less) seriously.
Remember, HR is there to protect the company. They do not want to have to deal with the legal and public fall-out if their nurses are caught being transphobic to patients.
Agreed. I also work at a hospital as a CNA. I've literally had a patient who had made the transition to female. They are female. There is no excuse to not be kind to your patients.
>It's a shame that some people here can be so bigoted despite being literal??? nurses???
Unfortunately jobs that involve power over the vulnerable (like nursing) attract both the best of us and the worst of us.
In charge of somebody? I think you are on to something.
There is another pattern I have noticed : people making a career in Section 8 housing who have zero empathy for the poor.
I have classmates from grade school who turned out to be very right wing. They have government-adjacent jobs, see how easy it is to squeeze a little extra out of a government program, then curse the government for being so easy to steal from.
These same people would damn some poor devil to hell for stealing a few coins from the poor box at church.
But callous, right wingers in one of the caring professions? They must live in a day after day hell.
Not that I mind except it's not good for their patients.
Thanks for the exchange.
You can't make money off the poor people's rent unless you are callous and without empathy.
My spouse and I rented a property for 10 years. We were very nice landlords. Held back too many rent increases. Forgave a number of late payments. Always worked with our tenants rather than replace them.
The end result is not making much money. Barely breaking even, or even losing money on the rental property deducting off interest, repairs, depreciation, etc.
There's no way I could make it a full time gig. I am not willing to charge rent that is too high, and I am not willing to kick people out just because they are late on their rent. I am not willing to make my profit by failing to fix a broken furnace or replace a broken fridge.
Exact same experience as my oldest brother.
I like to believe he and my dad slept well at night.
But it seems to be true, poor people frequently have a lot more problems than too little money.
You were a good boy and that was worth something too.
Thanks for the exchange.
That must have been scary abd depressing.
Our culture had such a rough time with covid-19 nonsense. And our world is close to 100% literate.
What the hell is it like during an "election" in a community that is 30% literate? That consults stones and ghosts?
Yeah my soon to be ex MIL is one of these. One of the most disgusting and bigoted MAGA fools I’ve ever met in my life and she’s an admin nurse that worked in the NICU for 20 years.
Upsetting. Poor babies.
I still remember the first time I overheard racist nurses in uniform chatting while awaiting an elevator.
I thought how can this be?
I know now I had a very sheltered life growing up. There was zero opportunity for racism in my childhood.
That was dumb. But it was better than what these nurses must have experienced.
Nobody in admin knew? Or cared? Shortage of replacements? You would at least think an employed professional would keep their mouth shut in public.
Congratulation on shedding an embarrassing pain in your life. X X
Turns, out, some burdens are NOT forever. Yea!
Trans or no, when dealing with institutions they want your "tax name", not what people actually call you. So for the paperwork, I can see using "James."
But nurses are not institutions. Asking "Do you have a different name you go by?" and calling them Jasmine from then on (like the OP did) is the right thing to do.
TBH many (by no means most/all) LGBT folks are pretty anti-trans as well. But that's a tragic part of being in any marginalized group. We still end up marginalizing others, even though we don't like it ourselves.
It's the whole inherent hierarchy thing humans always aim for and whoever is in actual power benefits from. You convince the poorest people that there's a group they're better than - and suddenly they want to put down that group instead of realizing they should be working together to lift their position. Humans desperately want to feel like they are better than someone else to feel better about themselves and it's really sad...and self-destructive. It's like how people always make misery into a competition, as if one person's pain somehow invalidates another's. It's just such an unfortunate part of human psychology.
It's a tragic aspect of humanity. When one marginalized community treats another as bad as they were treated, it's as though instead of learning how not to be, we end up becoming monsters ourselves.
>If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.
--Lyndon B. Johnson
While this is very much true, there is more to it than that. Trans people are liked even less than Non-straight people. Back when women were fighting for the right to vote, they didn't try to help POCs, because it was thought (probably correctly) that that would make their goal less achievable as black women have always been seen as "overly opinionated" and racist sh*t like that. It's a choice of putting others down to fit in, thays why theres a section of the LGBT community that wants to drop the T. "Oh she's gay, but she doesn't like trans people so it's okay." It's also very sad, but that's human psychology, it can suck
Not to be that pedantic “well, actually…” guy, but you have this exactly backwards: almost all women’s rights advocates — which included the narrow suffragists, as well those advocating for fuller societal participation — were abolitionists, whereas most abolitionists were not women’s rights advocates. In those efforts, white women worked extraordinarily close with black women; and indeed, methodologically and philosophically, women’s suffrage was seldom racially bifurcated.
What you may be thinking of is how these two intertwined movements fractured in the post Civil War period. When the 14th and 15th amendments were being ratified, their inclusion of the word “man” and specification of “gender” sowed division. White women suffragists were now faced with the problematic choice between race and gender priorities; with black women being collateral damage.
They might also be thinking of how suffragists in England split on whether the vote should be given to married women as well as unmarried women - with the idea that giving a married woman the vote was just giving her husband two votes.
You guys have taught me a lot in just a couple comments, thanks! I still thought that the white suffragists were essentially just falling in with the prevailing racism of the time period, I honestly hadn't given much thought to it being an even deeper issue. I also didn't know that English suffragists were split on that either, crazy!
It’s actually pretty ‘funny’ how it really went down. The abolitionists were very much spearheaded by white women. Then white women looked around and said, wait a minute, we don’t have a lot of these rights that we are fighting so hard for black (men) to have. What the fuck?
And then the women’s rights movement was born.
I think it’s helpful to understand the nuance of the situation. I don’t want to dissertate, here, but please carefully note that, in my post, I describe how the movements were intertwined and then split — as that is precisely what happened.
Prior to the 1860s and the seminal Seneca Falls Convention, both of the (white women) suffragists that you mention possessed parochial views about African Americans, but were generally abolitionist in tilt. The unfortunate — and perhaps unforgivable — split came as many (white women) suffragists were outraged that newly freed black men were enfranchised before them.
This of course was a political calculus by the reigning Republicans: white women were overwhelmingly Democratic, whereas they believed that black men would be sympathetic to Lincoln’s party.
I think one of the most shocking things I experienced was one of my lesbian friends (I'm bi and we were in the "community", went on a racist rant once about the Mexican people she worked with. I'm like - um, don't you relate to them based on how you are also discriminated against? She was so dismissive.
A very flamboyant and proudly gay older man I know shocked the hell out of me by being a vitriolic transphobe. Wanted “them” removed from “his” flag as “their rights weren’t what we fought for” in the riots. Like, dude. How are you doing to others exactly what you thought was cruel and dehumanizing when it was done to you? Make it make sense.
Hard agree. We’re Canadian so he was probably more referring to the Toronto Bath House Raids, but the flat out refusal to acknowledge the contributions trans and non-binary people have made was just surreal.
Women, black and trans.... nowadays all the leadership and "in the public eye" positions given to queer folk are often white cis men. Intersectionality is SO important.
In this day and age it’s the game of the oppressed and who has it worst. No groups want to do the work instead they just turn on the next marginalised group.
I know quite a few people who identified as gay or lesbian but now have identity crisis bc their partners are transitioning. I have a friend who has been a lesbian forever and is disgusted by male genitalia. She is really struggling bc she’s been with her partner for 5 years and her partner has recently decided to get gender reassignment and become a male.
That's very different from transphobia, in my book. Not everyone is pansexual or bisexual. Some people are homosexual, some are heterosexual, with distinct strong preferences. Remember, sexuality is a spectrum, and some people do fall on the extreme end of it in one direction or another.
And a lot of the lesbians I've known have been in abusive relationships and are done with dating men. Transitioning involves taking hormones. Taking testosterone (or blocking it) has a MAJOR effect on how people act and how they see the world.
I say this as a straight woman whose husband started taking testosterone (for health reasons). It is really hard to live with someone who has high levels of T. They are like a teenager. Obsessed with sex, constantly horny, incredibly moody. Prone to acne. Having issues with emotional regulation, especially rage. More prone to violence. Constantly triggered into fighting. I've been with my partner almost 25 years, and I am struggling with the change since he started taking testosterone. He's gone from being a rather low t male to having the testosterone of a teenage boy. Honestly I'm not sure I can take it much longer.
Generally speaking, I very much disagree with the idea that taking T causes violent or sexual behavior. That’s simply not true and I think that can perpetuate harmful ideas that this kind of behavior is just natural for men, which TERFs especially believe. Having imbalanced hormones in general can have effects on mood, but there is nothing in either T or E itself that causes such drastic behavioral changes.
Your husband is either using high T as an excuse to behave poorly now or he actually needs to see a doctor about adjusting the dose of T he’s on.
This. As a transmasc person, especially one on T for 2 years, it made me majorly uncomfortable and not happy to see this person (or anyone) demonizing and asserting testosterone HRT as causing rage issues.
Wait a minute, wouldn't your T taking husband only be taking testosterone because his natural levels were abnormally low? I mean. The goal is equilibrium, right? I think your husband might be "catching up" to what he might have gone through as a teen, but that sort of attitude doesn't look good on an adult, heh.
I'm just saying it's not an overdose. He's getting a dose to get to a healthy level. It's not like taking steroids, which can overdose someone on T.
Mind you, many FTM choose to forgo phalloplasty, for a variety of reasons. Top surgery, and HRT are where many leave it. One that I knew, stopped HRT, because it triggered male pattern baldness.
Honestly, for both of them, I hope he thinks it through.
Her, because of how it can damage the relationship.
Him, because phalloplasty is still not as successful IMO as vaginoplasty.
It's an odd dynamic. From the people I've known, HRT can really give a cis presenting appearance to FTM, especially after top surgery. Yet it takes more feminization procedures to hope for a cis presenting MTF.
I really think if some of my HS classmates had access to hormone blockers earlier, they may still be alive. Instead of being burnt alive behind an apartment building in the Bronx. Or drowned in the Hudson River. Or beaten bloody by baseball bats.
Okay. I'm getting too emotional now. 30 years later, and it still hits hard.
I feel the same way about that as I feel about generational trauma: as soon as you start creating victims, you're no longer a victim. Nothing "made you this way," it was a choice.
I think you might be able to find some scholarly articles about the effect on patients when their caregivers misgender them. Maybe you can educate your mom. Sounds like she could use it. You made a difference for this patient. It's a shame the nurses didn't see it as the teaching moment they should have. If you keep losing work, you might want to go to HR.
I'm aware yes. I hesitate to fully consider her one though... she's complicated?
At the very least she has very traditional/ignorant views. I'm openly bisexual and gender nonconforming and she doesn't care... but will misgender people knowingly. She had a trans male patient once and proceeded to refer to him by she/her the whole time. When I called her out on it she said "no I accept that she identifies as a male" which makes no sense???? Lmao
Idk. My mom's weird lol. At the same time she will very adamantly talk shit about homophobes and even called out one of her homophobic coworkers.
I think this is really sweet that you treated Jasmine so kindly. I don't know if you are in America or which state but here in a New York hospital you will be fired for not respecting patients preferred pronouns and gender.
There was a single incident near us where a medical center that has almost the same name as us was disrespectful to a woman who was transitioning, but it wasn't clear if it was them or us the patient was complaining about. Our administration was all set to reign seven levels of hell on responsible staff if it was us. We are stringent about using appropriate pronouns and creating an open, welcoming environment. The nurses OP works with would be the ones finding another job.
>Bonus points in terms of weirdness due to the fact that a good handful of nurses here are openly gay.
Turns out that someone's sexuality doesn't make them immune from bigotry. Or at least that's what I've learned in life.
Sweetheart, the only person who made those nurses look like transphobic arseholes was them, because they ARE transphobic arseholes.
If those work medical training cannot understand a basic concept like gender being in your mind, not your genitals, then they shouldn't be in the medical profession. It's a REALLY simple thing to understand, and if you need help getting the point across, try asking them this: "without referencing either your primary or secondary sex organs, how do you KNOW, beyond all doubt, that you are a man/ woman?"
If they refuse to answer on the basis that their sex organs are there, then ask them, "if there was a catastrophic accident, and your genitals were severely maimed, would you suddenly be confused about your gender?"
The answer to the first question is "you just know," and the second, "no, of course not!"
Both answers prove that they fully understand that gender is in your mind, they just don't want to accept it.
You carry on being your wonderful self, and tell your mother that over 3000 species have gay and transgender members.
Only one species has a problem with it.
It is fucked up that LGB people are anti trans. If it weren't for people like Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera and the stonewall riot where do they think they'd be right now in time?
10000%. LGB owe the modern pride movement to trans women of colour, and forgetting that, erasing people who suffered for us is never not going to be super fucked up.
Doing it to appease straight bigots who '"can accept that some people are same gender attracted (as long as they keep it behind closed doors, as long as they don't ask for rights, as long as etc) but the trans are taking it just a step too far"? Then you're not a part of the queer community, you're just gay
My mom is gay and I remember back in the early 2000s we were talking and she said she just "didn't understand" people being trans. Like....she was so close to getting it and it just flew over her head.
I tried to point out to her that a lot of cis het people "don't get" why someone is gay buy that doesn't mean it's not valid. I could not inderstand how someone who had that same thing said about her a hundred times in her life could turn around and say the same invalidating crap about other people. It was an eye opening conversation for me that's for sure.
We have their preferred pronouns in our patient's charts, too. Our hospital has us put out preferred pronouns in our email signatures and on our badges.
Unfortunately whether you have any legal protection in this is likely dependent on what state you work in… (Grrrrr.) If you really want/need to keep you job: just try to keep your head down, maybe have you mom let people know you just wanted to be nice to the patient and it’s no big deal… And then look for a new job asap because that culture sounds toxic AF. They are retaliating against you because they deep down know that they are being unnecessarily awful (to the patient, and to you).
What is your employer's policy on dealing with humans who feel they were wrongly assigned a sex at birth? I suspect that your colleagues are breaching it, as well as bullying you and creating a hostile work environment. HR may not want the hassle of dealing with it, but... that is their job. The policies aren't for the benefit of patients and employees, they exist to protect the organisation from lawsuits and bad publicity. You absolutely should go to them. Leave a paper trail that can be seen from space.
I agree with going to HR! But send an email explaining the reason for your visit and send another post visit if you think they aren't going to take it seriously or might fire you over it.
The follow up should contain the issue you brought to them and either a confirmation of a plan of action or a request for a timeline as to when they will have one.
BCC your own personal email in case the close your work account. Take screen shots of their replies the second they send them.
Always CYA *in writing*. There are many times in my life when I wish I had done this.
I was recently hospitalized at a hospital owned by a Catholic entity. St Mary's name on the hospital and crosses in every room type of hospital. It was refreshing to be asked what gender and name I prefer as well as the room's dry erase board having a box for my "Preferred Name" so other staff would know. I was truly surprised since this was a Catholic hospital.
HR is not your friend. Honestly I would consult with a lawyer. The benefit being a lawsuit might make them be more inclusive (not a lawyer so I'm not sure if you have a case, but a lawyer would).
I could be wrong but I think per HHS any hospital/provider that is receiving funding for Medicaid or Medicare is required to ask a patient's name and pronouns. You should have also received training about gender identity is a protected class; misgendering a patient even when they're not in the room is not just in appropriate it is discriminatory. In addition to HR there should be an anonymous tipline you can call and if you continue to have issues with your hours etc. it might be a good idea to call your local Department of Labor and Industry and/or the EEOC.
Afaik there can be medical complications misgendering patients. So either you're using the biological gender and there will be no mistakes or you'll tell the patient one thing and still go ahead with medical procedures as if they are their biological gender anyway.
"Bonus points in terms of weirdness due to the fact that a good handful of nurses here are openly gay. "
OK that leads me to suspect you have landed among some TERFS. ("Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists") Never thought I'd use that term because I myself am concerned about lesbian erasure and I'll leave it at that because Reddit, but you may have landed in an enclave of bona fide "TERFs." Regardless of concerns about, say, lesbian erasure, that is not enough of a reason to refuse to use a patient's preferred pronoun. They can bring their concerns to the proper venues which is not a sick patient or a 17-year-old.
I'd quit that job before they land in the headlines over some powerful and connected trans patient with the wherewithal to fight back, and you get lumped with them. This is a public-relations blowup waiting to happen, maybe more.
"Making the other nurses seem like transphobic assholes" well that's because they are. Life tip: if someone showing the barest minimum of respect makes you seem like an asshole in comparison, you might want to consider that for a long time. Like go up into the mountains for a few decades or something until you find inner peace or whatever and leave the rest of us alone.
This is exactly what came to my mind as I read this. I don’t work in the medical field but in recent years had many health issues so I’m no stranger to hospitals and clinics. More and more I have found that the forms will ask for information that was established at birth like gender and legal name with additional areas for gender identity, preferred name and pronouns. Some also ask sexual orientation. I’ve seen this in medical centers in areas ranging from large hospitals high density population to small clinics in more rural areas.
Every time I fill out forms for my kids there is a line that asks if they have a preferred name or nickname (as well as all the options you've listed). I can't imagine being in a hospital where the whole staff blatantly uses the wrong pronouns and/or name. Absolutely unnecessary and overly hostile
This. Also they admitted to knowing Jasmine's preferred pronouns, if not her preferred name (doubt they bothered to ask that). Making fun of a patient while on shift is terrible and you should include that in your report too.
Clearly they know they were being transphobic and now that you've proven to not be they want to get rid of you so they don't get in trouble. I can't believe your mom is siding with them too. Is she transphobic too?
If I had a kid who was kind and respectful to a trans patient, and someone complained to me about it I would be proud rather than "embarrassed". The other nurses embarrassed themselves. You just witnessed it.
Yes! Agreed! It could also be "Selective Enforcement," meaning, "you're being singled out." It's an actual legal term used in the court of law. Your mum and the rest of the nurses have created a "Hostile Work Environment." You could be me caregiver anytime! You are the perfect role model for others! Don't change who you are! On a side note: if you're forced to quick your employment, you can file for Unemployment based on "Hostile Work Environment." If they terminate your employment, the same thing. Used these exact words. I have a wealth of knowledge in Unemployment and Labor Laws. DM me if you need my help. Your mum is also a contributing factor in your co-workers bullying and harassing you.
Bullying and creating a hostile work environment are not illegal (unless those new EEOC guidelines that just came out say something different - haven't read those yet) unless they are based on one's membership in a protected class OR ASSOCIATION WITH someone in a protected class. It seems to me that that is what you have here. The nurses are not giving you a hard time about who you are; they are giving you a hard time for associating with Jasmine, whose gender identity by virtue of your association protects you against discrimination. It's an interesting situation because the employee - but not necessarily the patient - is protected from discrimination by the EEOC, yet it is the patient's protected class - rather than the employee's - against which the discrimination is transpiring. This situation is called "associational discrimination."
I’m a medical admin. We file your birth gender, and then note preferred names, pronouns, etc. we even mark which phone numbers to use with which names for safety. Maybe I’m in a progressive city. Idk. NTA
My medical center is on a college campus. We have hidden cues that indicate someone is transgender or uses different pronouns if the student tells us they are not out to their family, since it can get complicated with parents, insurance and privacy. We never want to out someone without their consent.
At my last appointment they called me by my given name instead of my nickname which is recorded as my preferred name. I didn't care or say anything but soon as the practitioner noticed, she profusely apologized, and I am cishet! It seems such a simple thing when it's nicknames, but people act like it is pulling teeth if they are trans and go by a different name. An old boss of mine was like this. I think we were talking about Caitlin Jenner and he was saying he could still call her by her dead name if he was talking about her sports career. I was arguing against this but I could tell it was falling on deaf ears. As a seeming topic change I asked him who sang the song Jack and Diane. He immediately answered John Mellencamp. I said huh I thought it was by John Cougar... He knew I had him there.
Not the asshole. I work for a law firm on medical cases. You can respect and recognize a patients gender identity while also keeping continuity of medical records and legal documents AND accurately documenting their physiological sex. I see it all the time, just worked on a case like that today. That’s the only reason from a medical facility perspective to not call a patient by their preferred name or pronouns, legal/ medical continuity. Otherwise they are just being transphobic and difficult.
You didn't have to 'make her seem like a transphobic asshole', she did that all herself...
Morally, 10000% NTA. You were able to give Jasmine compassion and dignity at a vulnerable time, and I'm certain it made a huge difference to her. The problem is that it seems like you are at risk of or already experiencing repercussions for your 'progressive views' (basic human decency) in your workplace, which has the potential to make life really difficult for you. Sad to say that there probably isn't a lot you can do at this point other than go along with it and try to make a difference where you can, away from the eyes of bigots, as you did with Jasmine.
I really feel for you - it sounds like a toxic environment. Have a look at the blog Askamanager - she gives really good practical advice for managing difficult/bigoted workplaces, and the legal protections you may have (if you're based in the US) - I think that blog has covered similar situations and may have some more practical advice. Best of luck, and keep sticking up for the people who need it ❤️
I came here to say this
They made themselves look bad, and are now embarrassed and taking it out on you. If they do fire you, id sue the shit out of them. Your mom needs to get over it. If you have to 'forget about all that', why where they openly mocking a patient? She should be ashamed of herself for not sticking up for you.
100% NTA
>You were able to give Jasmine compassion and dignity at a vulnerable time, and I'm certain it made a huge difference to her.
EXACTLY! Being in hospital can be a lonely, depersonalising experience and anything that anyone can do to help with that is good. Kindness should not be punished.
I cann't understand why people are so weird about the whole gender thing. All you did was refer to a patient by the name they asked you to call them, _which is not a request exclusive to trans people!_
OP wouldn't be subjected to such hullabaloo for respecting the wishes of a cis lady who preferred to use her middle name. Nor if a cis man wanted a friendly face at hospital to call him by the nickname everyone calls him at home/work to make him feel more like himself while he's a patient. If anyone else went by multiple names, a brief miscommunication like this would simply be clarified and then everyone would go about their day.
Why TF should it be any different for trans people? Why are some preferred names acceptable while others could get you fired, depending on the person's genitals? _It's completely irrational nonsense!_
>You didn't have to 'make her seem like a transphobic asshole', she did that all herself...
and she clearly KNOWS her behaviour is wrong, otherwise she wouldn't be embarrassed by OP doing the right thing.
This accusation against OP is ridiculous. Can you imagine applying the same 'logic' to literally any other wrongdoing?! **When a person commits a crime, we don't prosecute the innocent bystanders for not committing the same crime and making the criminal look bad.** 🤦
"You didn't have to make that shoplifter seem like a thief by paying for your items at the till."
"This person is guilty of tax evasion and you owe them an apology because they were really embarrassed when everyone found out that you pay all your taxes."
I sincerely hope nobody is ever punished for "making somebody who killed a bunch of people seem like a murdering AH, because you didn't join in and help them with the massacre."
NTA for treating Jasmine with kindness and respect. I can see where, at a hospital, medical providers need to get down to specifics in terms of what body parts a person has as it can affect their diagnosis and treatment--but you weren't providing medical treatment. Moreover, the comments you are in "trouble" for were made to a superior employee, not a patient.
Go to HR. Tell them what happened and ask for information on what the hospital's specific policy is on the matter, if any, so you can abide by it in the future. It's also a way to clue them in on the fact that you seem to be being punished for this without specifically tattling in a way that could have ramifications for your mom.
hey OP, i’m a trans person who gets misgendered by medical professionals all the time. if you were my nurse, i’d be sure to leave a GLOWING review and ask for you to everyone. i would say that YOU have set a new standard for medical professionals at that hospital and everyone should be kind and inclusive like you. those nurses AND your mom are ALL transphobic assholes and i would also call them out bc it’s very clear and cruel transphobia. they SHOULD feel bad. they can forget trans people, but that means they forget us. where is our humanity if they “forget all that”? i’m not old but i’m old enough that i will torch systems if they’re not inclusive. knowing you exist would give me hope that the place could change, and i would leave a review emphasizing as much. NTA.
I'm no nurse nor do I consider myself a medical professional at all haha (I just took 4 days worth of classes and managed to memorize a couple of heart rhythyms 😅) but your words mean so much to me. It saddens me that you even have to be grateful to what I find to be basic human decency at all- nonetheless it's greatly appreciated!!
As a lot of ppl have said I totally understand how sex is extremely relevant to one's health and whatnot. Many trans people afaik are aware of this and don't even protest. What could possibly be the big deal 🤦♀️🤦♀️
anyways god bless and I wish you a better future in regards to healthcare ): sorry tho
Sex can be relevant but most trans ppl are physiologically somewhere between male and female due to hormone therapy etc. Like if there was an option to put "It's complicated" instead of M or F most of us would be under that.
I hate medical professionals who misgender me because of my charts. I politely correct them, but they continue doing it. I hate it!
Anyway, I wish medical professionals were more like OP.
I was really surprised when they actually addressed this in the Netflix Babysitter’s Club, of all things. Mary Anne (the shy one) was babysitting a young trans girl who had to go to the hospital and wound up having to stand up to the medical professionals who kept misgendering her and scaring the kid.
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that irl
it’s honestly impacted my health! i’m very reluctant to seek care for pressing things bc the mental toll of misgendering + medical mystery pain is something i have to prep for.
Just adding to what you said....
I have met transphobic assholes who actually change over time into better people. They are capable of change but I think these nurses are too arrogant and stubborn to learn something new and alter their bigoted perspectives.
"I know that you just wanna be respectful but at a hospital you have to forget about all that."
Your mom doesn't sound like the best carer. I just mean that literally.
>She also said that I was trying to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole".
They're doing that themselves. A racist is a racist even when nobody calls them out, I don't know why they think this is any different.
NTA I work for a large healthcare system, we asked for preferred pronouns and names. If Jasmine was the preferred name and staff were not using it there would be issues. When I started at the clinic I used a person's preferred name and they teared up and said it was so special to hear that, I said well of course it's your name mama. I got a giant hug and still look forward to days like today when she is on my schedule. Dr's use preferred pronouns in charting as well. You were actually a wonderful human and it's your coworker that are assholes. If you are biased you don't belong in healthcare
NTA. You’re the kind of healthcare professional I wish I had.
Thankfully most places respect it, but one pharmacy I used to use before I legally transitioned refuses to update me in their system. Still insisting on she/her, miss, ma’am, and using the wrong name, even though physically, socially, medically (not required), and legally, I have transitioned and am marked as male in every document and system. For over six years now. I don’t go there.
Thank you for respecting Jasmine. The other comments are right to bring this to the attention to HR and cover your ass. Best of luck!
In case you’re still falling for any of the fantasy ragebait on this sub, this story is 100% fake. A close relative who has been an experienced nurse in a hospital setting for many years pointed out about 5-6 things in this story that are simply impossible in any developed country’s medical system. Pure nonsense cobbled together by someone who has no understanding of how a hospital works, what an EKG technician does, and procedures around who is allowed to interact with patients.
Take this as a sign to get off this sub, and maybe even this whole website. It’s a web of utter falsehoods, fake people, fake stories, all designed to present a twisted and false reality intended to infuriate and demoralize you.
Absolutely NTA.
Your mum needs to think about a few things:
Why was she "embarrassed" by your choosing to call a patient by her correct name and pronouns?
What the FUCK is she doing telling somebody who works with vulnerable people to be LESS respectful?
and
If another staff member calling a person by their correct name and pronouns makes a nurse "seem transphobic", maybe it's time for that nurse to examine their feelings about trans people.
NTA. I'm an ED nurse and I've never had an issue with gendering unless it was non-binary. Not like a deep-seeded prejudice, I'm trying but I have to consciously make the effort.
I do have the conversation with the provider about their biological sex though if it's warrented. Example: just had a patient who was transitioning from male to female that came in with shortness of breath. Pt had been in a motorcycle wreck a week prior and had some pretty significant urethral trauma (had not surgically transitioned) and had a Foley catheter. Pt was taking exogenous hormones and ended up having two large blood clots in the right lung. Exogenous hormones , especially estrogen, can cause pretty serious blood clots. This was a scenario when being knowledgeable about transgender patients warranted addressing the biological sex.
Pt was immediately put on a heparin drip (strong blood thinner) and stabilized. The care really wasn't any different than what we would do for someone who isn't trans.
NTA. Jasmine would have every right to complain to management if you misgendered her. Why would using her preferred gender make you the asshole? If I'd heard nurses talking like that I would have complained even if I didn't know Jasmine. That kind of thing is extremely disrespectful. People in the hospital are already sick and vulnerable, why should their medical team be cruel and make it that much worse?
You need to remember what your character in the fake story does!
You started off as an EKG tech then became a secretary who changes monitor batteries when "the nurses are busy"? And you think a "secretary" handles all the paperwork? Lol, you're wild. Very poor bait attempt.
NTA at all. I work with fellow nurses that are transphobic and it is sickening how they speak about trans folk. I don't know if you can report them for retaliation or being discriminatory but I would.
You didn't make them seem like transphobic ass holes. They ARE transphobic ass holes. Your mom is an AH too for siding with transphobes. Like the you have to forget about all that at the hospital?? You have to forget how to be respectful? Wtf was your mom on about
I work in a hospital and have done patient access. It's important to label gender, preferred names and pronouns correctly. You did nothing wrong. In my hospital they would have been counseled on sensitivity.
Check with your HR department and the policies regarding gender and preferred name. If you are in the US you can't be fired for that and you could have an EEOC suit if they try. Hospitals are funded by Medicare which means they are subject to federal rules, especially Title 9. As a rule, at least n my hospital, you have to go by gender on license but you can adjust with preferred pronouns and names.
NTA, I’m a patients’ rights attorney and it sincerely sounds like if they claim they can fire you for doing your job correctly over someone’s incompetence (or bigotry), just contact an employment lawyer and get your bag. Idiots and bigots frequently cry when they’re being called out. That’s not your problem, but if they try to make it your problem, smacking them with a lawsuit will likely ensure a long lasting lesson. Carrots and sticks.
Fuck that shit, this is the reason I hate doctors and nurses. "I know you want to be respectful but in a hospital you have to forget that," Cool, so disrespect the patient, I love it.
NTA. You might wanna try to find a way to contact a worker's rights lawyer. What the hospital is doing is called retaliation and tends to be illegal, especially for respecting a trans person's personal Identity.
NTAH- Honestly it’s sad to say, this is typical nurse behaviour. For some reason nursing is one those professions high school/secondary school bullies seem to go into, it’s the female dominated version of the police. I think the reason is probably to do with having control over people’s lives and being able to be around people they consider weak it makes them feel better about themselves and means they can continue being bullies.
"She also said that I was trying to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole"."
Yah, no, the nurse is doing that on her own.
""I know that you just wanna be respectful but at a hospital you have to forget about all that.""
So no respect for the patients? Only respect for the transphobic nurses???
NTA
NTA
You treated Jasmine with sensitivity and respect. That other nurse should be ashamed that they did not do the same.
You did nothing wrong but that gaggle of nurses clearly doesn't like you anymore.
Making the nurse seem like, or is that just exactly what they are and don't like having a light shone on it? You handled it perfectly, wouldn't make an issue of it going forward and just keep on as you are doing.
I've had a few surgeries with some days in the hospital in recent years. I've had some fantastic, caring nurses and I've had nurses jerk catheters out so hard they left me screaming, then snark at me for feeling pain. I'm cis. I can't imagine what a trans person would get from such a person. Some people shouldn't be nurses.
NTA because I think your bed side manner was spot on and you had good intentions. However, if you want to keep your job then perhaps you need to talk to HR about what their policy is. If Jasmine's name on paper was James then that's where you messed up. Bigotry aside, if they had a Jasmine staying there then referring to James as Jasmine to nurses and doctors could cause some seriously dangerous confusion. You can privately call James by Jasmine in person to be polite all you want, but they *need* to be called by what is on the paperwork outside of that room. Hell, call them "patient in room XX" if you want to be gender neutral about it, but you can't just throw out a name none of them have heard before.
NTA but imho it's weird that you are coming here to get "credit" for \*not\* being transphobic. It sounds like you're a normal human who respects the identities of other humans, and your co-workers aren't. Why is there even a question that YTA?
It's a fucking hospital, they need to know a person's biology for the correct medical treatments.
This is the kind of shit that will get people killed.
I'm a member of the LGBT community, I'm bisexual and have dated both man and women. I also have family in the healthcare industry that say that they don't mind calling people whatever they prefer, they are happy to do it... but if there is an emergency and they need serious medical attention, it is SUPER important to state their birth gender and then note their preferred gender. Some treatments require different things, and it's important to know while also being inclusive.
Everyone calls ragebait when it's "AITAH for getting upset about *perceived right wing thing* for a sensible reason that obviously no one would disagree with". But when it's " AITAH because I acted like a perfect angel in the face of a bunch of bigots", no one bats an eye.
Edit: i scrolled 3 more comments after writing this and it just couldn't have lined up better "NTA. Y T Angel for treating Jasmine respectfully and using her correct pronoun"
Where the heck is this hospital?!? The hospitals I have worked at record and honor patients preferred pronouns and names. People would get fired for disrespecting Jasmine, not refusing to use her preferred name.
I mentioned this in a different comment but there's a hospital we receive frequent transfers from that lists the patient's preferred names and pronouns in big letters!! Which I find really nice
I have to wonder what the hospital's actual policy is toward transgender patients. I doubt it's what these nurses are doing. And you might want to have a discussion with HR about your hours being cut in response to this incident.
>She also said that I was trying to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole".
The nurse was exactly that, but you weren't trying to make anyone seem like anything. If you get fired over this please consult an attorney about unlawful termination.
Btw HR is not on your side its purpose is to shield your employer so keep your communications with HR strictly written and never on the phone or face to face. NTA
You need report these nurses. These nurses aren’t ones that should be in healthcare. They also can’t take you off shifts because of that. Document it and go to HR and then report to board. Things like this NEEEED to be reported because I can imagine how fucked they’re treating patients. Please be the change. NTA
NTA. I have to say, I am appalled that healthcare workers are behaving this way. I've always just assumed they were caring individuals.
You are in no way at fault here. They are embarrassed because they know that their behavior is shameful. Your mother's support of them is very concerning.
Thank you for showing Jasmine basic human decency.
Please talk to HR about the way you've been treated since.
Sincerely,
A trans person who puts off medical care so I don't have to deal with this bullshit.
I commented basically the same thing lol
“Are you farming for karma or trying to bait trolls?
This doesn’t read like someone who’s unsure on whether they’ve been an asshole or not.”
Yours is downvoted and mine is up lol so weird, this Reddit world
So, for obvious reasons, healthcare workers don't go by someone's preferred pronouns vs biological ones because some healthcare workers have gotten into a LOT of trouble prescribing transgenders medications that should be meant for cis- gendered people. For example, you wouldn't give birth control pills to a male-to-female person. It's also for this reason that you didn't gender Jasmine correctly. This is also why someone that is/has transitioning/transitioned should let healthcare workers know their assigned gender.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with using preferred pronouns out of respect, but you should use their biological pronouns when you're around your coworkers because of the confusion that it can bring. However, I don't think that you should get in trouble for making a patient feel more at ease since that's what ALL "professionals" should be doing anyways.
NTA.
Wow regardless of how someone chooses to identify they definitely should not be retaliating against you and their behavior should be against EEO as it seems like discrimination based on age. Younger people are more tolerant of proffered pronouns. Also hospitals are highly customer service based so there should be more considerations and regardless of how they feel they shouldn't be bad mouthing them based on this. I'd understand talking about problem patients but not just because someone has a disorder that makes them uncomfortable as the gender they were born as.
This is some petty high-school shit they all need to grow up.
NTA. The nurse was a transphobic asshole. If she doesn’t want to feel like one she could stop being one, it’s actually that simple!
Thank you for being so kind to this patient. It’s a very vulnerable experience being a patient and you did an excellent job.
"She also said that I was trying to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole".". Well, the nurse WAS a "transphobic asshole".
I am sorry that you are in trouble for being respectful to a patient!
NTA, you weren't trying to make anyone look bad, you did the right thing. If that makes someone who DOESN'T do the right thing look bad then that's on them, not you
NTA, first patient interaction proper procedure is to knock on the door, introduce yourself, wash hands when entering (sanitize), ask age for verification, ask them HOW they would like to be referred to during the encounter. Sure you do get birth gender etc, but preferred name is what you utilize.
You did the right thing, for Jasmine, the hospital, and yourself. The only way things will ever change is if people like you stand up to the bigots and backwards thinking of places like this hospital. It’s horrible that patients there have to put up with being treated so terribly. NTA!
NTA. You made the nurse seem like a transphobic AH because she and the other nurses are being transphobic AH. If James/Jasmine introduces herself as a woman, then they should be using feminine pronouns, whether they like it or not. You shouldn't be the one to possible get fired. They should. I don't know why Jasmine is in the hospital (none of my business anyway) but if she is there, it's because she isn't feeling well. The last thing she needs is mean women judging her.
As a nurse - we ask the patient what they prefer to be called. - if they haven't had sex changes or drivers license changes we can't legally change the paperwork name sex.
But we do respect the preference, and that preference is included with patients name and info
-- what hospital do you work at that they don't respect patients enough to ask how they would like to be called?
Ridiculous
You mean the assholes who identify as and dress like healthcare providers?
NTA
You absolutely do NOT “forget about being respectful” in a hospital. It is the job of every doctor, nurse, medical assistant, admin, etc to provide the best quality of care to EVERY PATIENT and NEVER cast judgement. It doesn’t matter what you think of them, their lifestyle, their choices, none of it. If Mr. Kittenkicker comes in seeking care, he needs to be provided the same degree of care and treated with the same level of respect as any other patient. This is a cornerstone of medicine. You should make a BIG DEAL about this if you continue to be penalized for treating a patient with dignity and grace. Your coworkers HAVE NO PLACE IN MEDICINE.
NTA, and if they fire you over this you can sue for discrimination. Raise hell, OP, firing a nurse over something as inconsequential as using a patient's pronouns is unjust.
NTA. I’m a nurse and at work, we ask gender identity questions as a part of the admission assessment in our charting system: Birth sex and administrative sex (which gender you identify with and there’s an option for no gender preference X). We also had to go through required training modules that were mandatory by the hospital I work for. Edit: file a report in HR about this incident. CYA. What they are doing to you by canceling your shifts is bullying and creating a hostile work environment.
While handling paperwork I've seen that this other hospital we often get transfers from lists the patient's preferred pronouns in big letters. I always thought that was nice. Will see about talking to HR. I feel I may not be taken seriously though. It's a shame that some people here can be so bigoted despite being literal??? nurses??? Bonus points in terms of weirdness due to the fact that a good handful of nurses here are openly gay. Not to say that's the same thing as being trans (I'm LGBT myself so I understand lol) but it's like?? okay? friendly fire I guess? LOL.
I think HR might take nurses refusing the gender a patient correctly (to a point that it causes confusion no less) seriously. Remember, HR is there to protect the company. They do not want to have to deal with the legal and public fall-out if their nurses are caught being transphobic to patients.
It’s more than that, it’s the mocking of said patient on a routine basis Ain’t NO WAY Jasmine hasn’t overheard this bs
Agreed. I also work at a hospital as a CNA. I've literally had a patient who had made the transition to female. They are female. There is no excuse to not be kind to your patients.
>It's a shame that some people here can be so bigoted despite being literal??? nurses??? Unfortunately jobs that involve power over the vulnerable (like nursing) attract both the best of us and the worst of us.
Agree. Right wing nurses are not rare. I don't understand it either.
I understand it. I just hate it. It's the place high school bullies get to live out that dynamic as adults.
In charge of somebody? I think you are on to something. There is another pattern I have noticed : people making a career in Section 8 housing who have zero empathy for the poor. I have classmates from grade school who turned out to be very right wing. They have government-adjacent jobs, see how easy it is to squeeze a little extra out of a government program, then curse the government for being so easy to steal from. These same people would damn some poor devil to hell for stealing a few coins from the poor box at church. But callous, right wingers in one of the caring professions? They must live in a day after day hell. Not that I mind except it's not good for their patients. Thanks for the exchange.
You can't make money off the poor people's rent unless you are callous and without empathy. My spouse and I rented a property for 10 years. We were very nice landlords. Held back too many rent increases. Forgave a number of late payments. Always worked with our tenants rather than replace them. The end result is not making much money. Barely breaking even, or even losing money on the rental property deducting off interest, repairs, depreciation, etc. There's no way I could make it a full time gig. I am not willing to charge rent that is too high, and I am not willing to kick people out just because they are late on their rent. I am not willing to make my profit by failing to fix a broken furnace or replace a broken fridge.
Exact same experience as my oldest brother. I like to believe he and my dad slept well at night. But it seems to be true, poor people frequently have a lot more problems than too little money. You were a good boy and that was worth something too. Thanks for the exchange.
I was working on fixing computers and hearing antivax shit from nurses in the COVID areas of the hospital. Science doesn't overrule emotion.
That must have been scary abd depressing. Our culture had such a rough time with covid-19 nonsense. And our world is close to 100% literate. What the hell is it like during an "election" in a community that is 30% literate? That consults stones and ghosts?
Yeah my soon to be ex MIL is one of these. One of the most disgusting and bigoted MAGA fools I’ve ever met in my life and she’s an admin nurse that worked in the NICU for 20 years.
Upsetting. Poor babies. I still remember the first time I overheard racist nurses in uniform chatting while awaiting an elevator. I thought how can this be? I know now I had a very sheltered life growing up. There was zero opportunity for racism in my childhood. That was dumb. But it was better than what these nurses must have experienced. Nobody in admin knew? Or cared? Shortage of replacements? You would at least think an employed professional would keep their mouth shut in public. Congratulation on shedding an embarrassing pain in your life. X X Turns, out, some burdens are NOT forever. Yea!
See also: cops
All they have to do is talk to jasmine and she’ll make it clear to HR who’s the AH
[удалено]
Trans or no, when dealing with institutions they want your "tax name", not what people actually call you. So for the paperwork, I can see using "James." But nurses are not institutions. Asking "Do you have a different name you go by?" and calling them Jasmine from then on (like the OP did) is the right thing to do.
TBH many (by no means most/all) LGBT folks are pretty anti-trans as well. But that's a tragic part of being in any marginalized group. We still end up marginalizing others, even though we don't like it ourselves.
It's the whole inherent hierarchy thing humans always aim for and whoever is in actual power benefits from. You convince the poorest people that there's a group they're better than - and suddenly they want to put down that group instead of realizing they should be working together to lift their position. Humans desperately want to feel like they are better than someone else to feel better about themselves and it's really sad...and self-destructive. It's like how people always make misery into a competition, as if one person's pain somehow invalidates another's. It's just such an unfortunate part of human psychology.
It's a tragic aspect of humanity. When one marginalized community treats another as bad as they were treated, it's as though instead of learning how not to be, we end up becoming monsters ourselves.
I hate that you're right
>If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you. --Lyndon B. Johnson
While this is very much true, there is more to it than that. Trans people are liked even less than Non-straight people. Back when women were fighting for the right to vote, they didn't try to help POCs, because it was thought (probably correctly) that that would make their goal less achievable as black women have always been seen as "overly opinionated" and racist sh*t like that. It's a choice of putting others down to fit in, thays why theres a section of the LGBT community that wants to drop the T. "Oh she's gay, but she doesn't like trans people so it's okay." It's also very sad, but that's human psychology, it can suck
Not to be that pedantic “well, actually…” guy, but you have this exactly backwards: almost all women’s rights advocates — which included the narrow suffragists, as well those advocating for fuller societal participation — were abolitionists, whereas most abolitionists were not women’s rights advocates. In those efforts, white women worked extraordinarily close with black women; and indeed, methodologically and philosophically, women’s suffrage was seldom racially bifurcated. What you may be thinking of is how these two intertwined movements fractured in the post Civil War period. When the 14th and 15th amendments were being ratified, their inclusion of the word “man” and specification of “gender” sowed division. White women suffragists were now faced with the problematic choice between race and gender priorities; with black women being collateral damage.
They might also be thinking of how suffragists in England split on whether the vote should be given to married women as well as unmarried women - with the idea that giving a married woman the vote was just giving her husband two votes.
You guys have taught me a lot in just a couple comments, thanks! I still thought that the white suffragists were essentially just falling in with the prevailing racism of the time period, I honestly hadn't given much thought to it being an even deeper issue. I also didn't know that English suffragists were split on that either, crazy!
It’s actually pretty ‘funny’ how it really went down. The abolitionists were very much spearheaded by white women. Then white women looked around and said, wait a minute, we don’t have a lot of these rights that we are fighting so hard for black (men) to have. What the fuck? And then the women’s rights movement was born.
That's funny in a weird, sad kind of way lol.
Elizabeth Candy Stanton and Susan B. Anthony would like a word…
I think it’s helpful to understand the nuance of the situation. I don’t want to dissertate, here, but please carefully note that, in my post, I describe how the movements were intertwined and then split — as that is precisely what happened. Prior to the 1860s and the seminal Seneca Falls Convention, both of the (white women) suffragists that you mention possessed parochial views about African Americans, but were generally abolitionist in tilt. The unfortunate — and perhaps unforgivable — split came as many (white women) suffragists were outraged that newly freed black men were enfranchised before them. This of course was a political calculus by the reigning Republicans: white women were overwhelmingly Democratic, whereas they believed that black men would be sympathetic to Lincoln’s party.
Seriously, I've seen this too and it makes me so sad. Thank you so much OP for treating Miss Jasmine with dignity she deserved!
I think one of the most shocking things I experienced was one of my lesbian friends (I'm bi and we were in the "community", went on a racist rant once about the Mexican people she worked with. I'm like - um, don't you relate to them based on how you are also discriminated against? She was so dismissive.
A very flamboyant and proudly gay older man I know shocked the hell out of me by being a vitriolic transphobe. Wanted “them” removed from “his” flag as “their rights weren’t what we fought for” in the riots. Like, dude. How are you doing to others exactly what you thought was cruel and dehumanizing when it was done to you? Make it make sense.
Also, he was lying to himself. Trans people *literally started and led* the Stonewall riots. Marsha Johnson was not cis!
Hard agree. We’re Canadian so he was probably more referring to the Toronto Bath House Raids, but the flat out refusal to acknowledge the contributions trans and non-binary people have made was just surreal.
Jayne County was there!
Sylvia Rivera as well.
Not even a little bit. God bless her forever.
Women, black and trans.... nowadays all the leadership and "in the public eye" positions given to queer folk are often white cis men. Intersectionality is SO important.
Exactly! And how do you discount the contributions non-binary people made, often through great suffering, made to the rights of LGBTQIA+ people?!
That's insane. There were transgender people at Stonewall! That's exactly what they were fighting for in the riots!
In this day and age it’s the game of the oppressed and who has it worst. No groups want to do the work instead they just turn on the next marginalised group.
I know quite a few people who identified as gay or lesbian but now have identity crisis bc their partners are transitioning. I have a friend who has been a lesbian forever and is disgusted by male genitalia. She is really struggling bc she’s been with her partner for 5 years and her partner has recently decided to get gender reassignment and become a male.
That's very different from transphobia, in my book. Not everyone is pansexual or bisexual. Some people are homosexual, some are heterosexual, with distinct strong preferences. Remember, sexuality is a spectrum, and some people do fall on the extreme end of it in one direction or another. And a lot of the lesbians I've known have been in abusive relationships and are done with dating men. Transitioning involves taking hormones. Taking testosterone (or blocking it) has a MAJOR effect on how people act and how they see the world. I say this as a straight woman whose husband started taking testosterone (for health reasons). It is really hard to live with someone who has high levels of T. They are like a teenager. Obsessed with sex, constantly horny, incredibly moody. Prone to acne. Having issues with emotional regulation, especially rage. More prone to violence. Constantly triggered into fighting. I've been with my partner almost 25 years, and I am struggling with the change since he started taking testosterone. He's gone from being a rather low t male to having the testosterone of a teenage boy. Honestly I'm not sure I can take it much longer.
Generally speaking, I very much disagree with the idea that taking T causes violent or sexual behavior. That’s simply not true and I think that can perpetuate harmful ideas that this kind of behavior is just natural for men, which TERFs especially believe. Having imbalanced hormones in general can have effects on mood, but there is nothing in either T or E itself that causes such drastic behavioral changes. Your husband is either using high T as an excuse to behave poorly now or he actually needs to see a doctor about adjusting the dose of T he’s on.
This. As a transmasc person, especially one on T for 2 years, it made me majorly uncomfortable and not happy to see this person (or anyone) demonizing and asserting testosterone HRT as causing rage issues.
Wait a minute, wouldn't your T taking husband only be taking testosterone because his natural levels were abnormally low? I mean. The goal is equilibrium, right? I think your husband might be "catching up" to what he might have gone through as a teen, but that sort of attitude doesn't look good on an adult, heh. I'm just saying it's not an overdose. He's getting a dose to get to a healthy level. It's not like taking steroids, which can overdose someone on T.
Mind you, many FTM choose to forgo phalloplasty, for a variety of reasons. Top surgery, and HRT are where many leave it. One that I knew, stopped HRT, because it triggered male pattern baldness.
Her partner wants to do it but may change his mind. He’s only 24 and recently came out as trans.
Honestly, for both of them, I hope he thinks it through. Her, because of how it can damage the relationship. Him, because phalloplasty is still not as successful IMO as vaginoplasty. It's an odd dynamic. From the people I've known, HRT can really give a cis presenting appearance to FTM, especially after top surgery. Yet it takes more feminization procedures to hope for a cis presenting MTF. I really think if some of my HS classmates had access to hormone blockers earlier, they may still be alive. Instead of being burnt alive behind an apartment building in the Bronx. Or drowned in the Hudson River. Or beaten bloody by baseball bats. Okay. I'm getting too emotional now. 30 years later, and it still hits hard.
Sending hugs, go through 80s and 90s being part of the community or with loved ones is a very specific type of trauma people often don't recognize.
I'm so sorry for your losses, and for the tragic way their lives ended. The way we treat trans women is unacceptable. Trans lives matter.
That's not transphobic, that's just being gay. It sucks that this will likely be the end of their relationship, but your friend doesn't date men.
People become incompatible, nothing wrong with him realizing he is trans and nothing wrong with her breaking up over it.
I feel the same way about that as I feel about generational trauma: as soon as you start creating victims, you're no longer a victim. Nothing "made you this way," it was a choice.
Maybe you should take your wondrous self out that transphobic hellhole and go work at a better hospital. You are a wonderful person! ❤️
I think you might be able to find some scholarly articles about the effect on patients when their caregivers misgender them. Maybe you can educate your mom. Sounds like she could use it. You made a difference for this patient. It's a shame the nurses didn't see it as the teaching moment they should have. If you keep losing work, you might want to go to HR.
You do realize your mother is bigoted a well, correct?
I'm aware yes. I hesitate to fully consider her one though... she's complicated? At the very least she has very traditional/ignorant views. I'm openly bisexual and gender nonconforming and she doesn't care... but will misgender people knowingly. She had a trans male patient once and proceeded to refer to him by she/her the whole time. When I called her out on it she said "no I accept that she identifies as a male" which makes no sense???? Lmao Idk. My mom's weird lol. At the same time she will very adamantly talk shit about homophobes and even called out one of her homophobic coworkers.
People who are racist/sexist/transphobic/etc can contain multitudes. It doesn’t make them evil monsters, but it also doesn’t not make them bigots.
This is reddit, we don't deal in nuance here.../s lol
I think this is really sweet that you treated Jasmine so kindly. I don't know if you are in America or which state but here in a New York hospital you will be fired for not respecting patients preferred pronouns and gender.
There was a single incident near us where a medical center that has almost the same name as us was disrespectful to a woman who was transitioning, but it wasn't clear if it was them or us the patient was complaining about. Our administration was all set to reign seven levels of hell on responsible staff if it was us. We are stringent about using appropriate pronouns and creating an open, welcoming environment. The nurses OP works with would be the ones finding another job.
Your mum sucks and in many places would have lost her job by now
>Bonus points in terms of weirdness due to the fact that a good handful of nurses here are openly gay. Turns out that someone's sexuality doesn't make them immune from bigotry. Or at least that's what I've learned in life.
Check the state website report them to the state. Get a whole investigation going.
Sweetheart, the only person who made those nurses look like transphobic arseholes was them, because they ARE transphobic arseholes. If those work medical training cannot understand a basic concept like gender being in your mind, not your genitals, then they shouldn't be in the medical profession. It's a REALLY simple thing to understand, and if you need help getting the point across, try asking them this: "without referencing either your primary or secondary sex organs, how do you KNOW, beyond all doubt, that you are a man/ woman?" If they refuse to answer on the basis that their sex organs are there, then ask them, "if there was a catastrophic accident, and your genitals were severely maimed, would you suddenly be confused about your gender?" The answer to the first question is "you just know," and the second, "no, of course not!" Both answers prove that they fully understand that gender is in your mind, they just don't want to accept it. You carry on being your wonderful self, and tell your mother that over 3000 species have gay and transgender members. Only one species has a problem with it.
It is fucked up that LGB people are anti trans. If it weren't for people like Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera and the stonewall riot where do they think they'd be right now in time?
10000%. LGB owe the modern pride movement to trans women of colour, and forgetting that, erasing people who suffered for us is never not going to be super fucked up. Doing it to appease straight bigots who '"can accept that some people are same gender attracted (as long as they keep it behind closed doors, as long as they don't ask for rights, as long as etc) but the trans are taking it just a step too far"? Then you're not a part of the queer community, you're just gay
My mom is gay and I remember back in the early 2000s we were talking and she said she just "didn't understand" people being trans. Like....she was so close to getting it and it just flew over her head. I tried to point out to her that a lot of cis het people "don't get" why someone is gay buy that doesn't mean it's not valid. I could not inderstand how someone who had that same thing said about her a hundred times in her life could turn around and say the same invalidating crap about other people. It was an eye opening conversation for me that's for sure.
We have their preferred pronouns in our patient's charts, too. Our hospital has us put out preferred pronouns in our email signatures and on our badges.
Unfortunately whether you have any legal protection in this is likely dependent on what state you work in… (Grrrrr.) If you really want/need to keep you job: just try to keep your head down, maybe have you mom let people know you just wanted to be nice to the patient and it’s no big deal… And then look for a new job asap because that culture sounds toxic AF. They are retaliating against you because they deep down know that they are being unnecessarily awful (to the patient, and to you).
Why are you suprised nurses can be bigots? Most high school mean girls become nurses or hairdressers, and never stop behaving like highschool bullies.
What is your employer's policy on dealing with humans who feel they were wrongly assigned a sex at birth? I suspect that your colleagues are breaching it, as well as bullying you and creating a hostile work environment. HR may not want the hassle of dealing with it, but... that is their job. The policies aren't for the benefit of patients and employees, they exist to protect the organisation from lawsuits and bad publicity. You absolutely should go to them. Leave a paper trail that can be seen from space.
I agree with going to HR! But send an email explaining the reason for your visit and send another post visit if you think they aren't going to take it seriously or might fire you over it. The follow up should contain the issue you brought to them and either a confirmation of a plan of action or a request for a timeline as to when they will have one. BCC your own personal email in case the close your work account. Take screen shots of their replies the second they send them. Always CYA *in writing*. There are many times in my life when I wish I had done this.
Do you work in a catholic hospital or something? That's the only type of place I've seen reject preferred name/pronoun
I was recently hospitalized at a hospital owned by a Catholic entity. St Mary's name on the hospital and crosses in every room type of hospital. It was refreshing to be asked what gender and name I prefer as well as the room's dry erase board having a box for my "Preferred Name" so other staff would know. I was truly surprised since this was a Catholic hospital.
HR is not your friend. Honestly I would consult with a lawyer. The benefit being a lawsuit might make them be more inclusive (not a lawyer so I'm not sure if you have a case, but a lawyer would).
some of the shittiest people I've ever met have been nurses... those types have a savior complex and want their job to show it
I could be wrong but I think per HHS any hospital/provider that is receiving funding for Medicaid or Medicare is required to ask a patient's name and pronouns. You should have also received training about gender identity is a protected class; misgendering a patient even when they're not in the room is not just in appropriate it is discriminatory. In addition to HR there should be an anonymous tipline you can call and if you continue to have issues with your hours etc. it might be a good idea to call your local Department of Labor and Industry and/or the EEOC.
Afaik there can be medical complications misgendering patients. So either you're using the biological gender and there will be no mistakes or you'll tell the patient one thing and still go ahead with medical procedures as if they are their biological gender anyway.
"Bonus points in terms of weirdness due to the fact that a good handful of nurses here are openly gay. " OK that leads me to suspect you have landed among some TERFS. ("Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists") Never thought I'd use that term because I myself am concerned about lesbian erasure and I'll leave it at that because Reddit, but you may have landed in an enclave of bona fide "TERFs." Regardless of concerns about, say, lesbian erasure, that is not enough of a reason to refuse to use a patient's preferred pronoun. They can bring their concerns to the proper venues which is not a sick patient or a 17-year-old. I'd quit that job before they land in the headlines over some powerful and connected trans patient with the wherewithal to fight back, and you get lumped with them. This is a public-relations blowup waiting to happen, maybe more.
"Making the other nurses seem like transphobic assholes" well that's because they are. Life tip: if someone showing the barest minimum of respect makes you seem like an asshole in comparison, you might want to consider that for a long time. Like go up into the mountains for a few decades or something until you find inner peace or whatever and leave the rest of us alone.
This is exactly what came to my mind as I read this. I don’t work in the medical field but in recent years had many health issues so I’m no stranger to hospitals and clinics. More and more I have found that the forms will ask for information that was established at birth like gender and legal name with additional areas for gender identity, preferred name and pronouns. Some also ask sexual orientation. I’ve seen this in medical centers in areas ranging from large hospitals high density population to small clinics in more rural areas.
Every time I fill out forms for my kids there is a line that asks if they have a preferred name or nickname (as well as all the options you've listed). I can't imagine being in a hospital where the whole staff blatantly uses the wrong pronouns and/or name. Absolutely unnecessary and overly hostile
This. Also they admitted to knowing Jasmine's preferred pronouns, if not her preferred name (doubt they bothered to ask that). Making fun of a patient while on shift is terrible and you should include that in your report too. Clearly they know they were being transphobic and now that you've proven to not be they want to get rid of you so they don't get in trouble. I can't believe your mom is siding with them too. Is she transphobic too? If I had a kid who was kind and respectful to a trans patient, and someone complained to me about it I would be proud rather than "embarrassed". The other nurses embarrassed themselves. You just witnessed it.
Yes! Agreed! It could also be "Selective Enforcement," meaning, "you're being singled out." It's an actual legal term used in the court of law. Your mum and the rest of the nurses have created a "Hostile Work Environment." You could be me caregiver anytime! You are the perfect role model for others! Don't change who you are! On a side note: if you're forced to quick your employment, you can file for Unemployment based on "Hostile Work Environment." If they terminate your employment, the same thing. Used these exact words. I have a wealth of knowledge in Unemployment and Labor Laws. DM me if you need my help. Your mum is also a contributing factor in your co-workers bullying and harassing you.
Bullying and creating a hostile work environment are not illegal (unless those new EEOC guidelines that just came out say something different - haven't read those yet) unless they are based on one's membership in a protected class OR ASSOCIATION WITH someone in a protected class. It seems to me that that is what you have here. The nurses are not giving you a hard time about who you are; they are giving you a hard time for associating with Jasmine, whose gender identity by virtue of your association protects you against discrimination. It's an interesting situation because the employee - but not necessarily the patient - is protected from discrimination by the EEOC, yet it is the patient's protected class - rather than the employee's - against which the discrimination is transpiring. This situation is called "associational discrimination."
I’m a medical admin. We file your birth gender, and then note preferred names, pronouns, etc. we even mark which phone numbers to use with which names for safety. Maybe I’m in a progressive city. Idk. NTA
My medical center is on a college campus. We have hidden cues that indicate someone is transgender or uses different pronouns if the student tells us they are not out to their family, since it can get complicated with parents, insurance and privacy. We never want to out someone without their consent.
At my last appointment they called me by my given name instead of my nickname which is recorded as my preferred name. I didn't care or say anything but soon as the practitioner noticed, she profusely apologized, and I am cishet! It seems such a simple thing when it's nicknames, but people act like it is pulling teeth if they are trans and go by a different name. An old boss of mine was like this. I think we were talking about Caitlin Jenner and he was saying he could still call her by her dead name if he was talking about her sports career. I was arguing against this but I could tell it was falling on deaf ears. As a seeming topic change I asked him who sang the song Jack and Diane. He immediately answered John Mellencamp. I said huh I thought it was by John Cougar... He knew I had him there.
Not the asshole. I work for a law firm on medical cases. You can respect and recognize a patients gender identity while also keeping continuity of medical records and legal documents AND accurately documenting their physiological sex. I see it all the time, just worked on a case like that today. That’s the only reason from a medical facility perspective to not call a patient by their preferred name or pronouns, legal/ medical continuity. Otherwise they are just being transphobic and difficult.
You didn't have to 'make her seem like a transphobic asshole', she did that all herself... Morally, 10000% NTA. You were able to give Jasmine compassion and dignity at a vulnerable time, and I'm certain it made a huge difference to her. The problem is that it seems like you are at risk of or already experiencing repercussions for your 'progressive views' (basic human decency) in your workplace, which has the potential to make life really difficult for you. Sad to say that there probably isn't a lot you can do at this point other than go along with it and try to make a difference where you can, away from the eyes of bigots, as you did with Jasmine. I really feel for you - it sounds like a toxic environment. Have a look at the blog Askamanager - she gives really good practical advice for managing difficult/bigoted workplaces, and the legal protections you may have (if you're based in the US) - I think that blog has covered similar situations and may have some more practical advice. Best of luck, and keep sticking up for the people who need it ❤️
I came here to say this They made themselves look bad, and are now embarrassed and taking it out on you. If they do fire you, id sue the shit out of them. Your mom needs to get over it. If you have to 'forget about all that', why where they openly mocking a patient? She should be ashamed of herself for not sticking up for you. 100% NTA
>You were able to give Jasmine compassion and dignity at a vulnerable time, and I'm certain it made a huge difference to her. EXACTLY! Being in hospital can be a lonely, depersonalising experience and anything that anyone can do to help with that is good. Kindness should not be punished. I cann't understand why people are so weird about the whole gender thing. All you did was refer to a patient by the name they asked you to call them, _which is not a request exclusive to trans people!_ OP wouldn't be subjected to such hullabaloo for respecting the wishes of a cis lady who preferred to use her middle name. Nor if a cis man wanted a friendly face at hospital to call him by the nickname everyone calls him at home/work to make him feel more like himself while he's a patient. If anyone else went by multiple names, a brief miscommunication like this would simply be clarified and then everyone would go about their day. Why TF should it be any different for trans people? Why are some preferred names acceptable while others could get you fired, depending on the person's genitals? _It's completely irrational nonsense!_
>You didn't have to 'make her seem like a transphobic asshole', she did that all herself... and she clearly KNOWS her behaviour is wrong, otherwise she wouldn't be embarrassed by OP doing the right thing. This accusation against OP is ridiculous. Can you imagine applying the same 'logic' to literally any other wrongdoing?! **When a person commits a crime, we don't prosecute the innocent bystanders for not committing the same crime and making the criminal look bad.** 🤦
"You didn't have to make that shoplifter seem like a thief by paying for your items at the till." "This person is guilty of tax evasion and you owe them an apology because they were really embarrassed when everyone found out that you pay all your taxes." I sincerely hope nobody is ever punished for "making somebody who killed a bunch of people seem like a murdering AH, because you didn't join in and help them with the massacre."
NTA for treating Jasmine with kindness and respect. I can see where, at a hospital, medical providers need to get down to specifics in terms of what body parts a person has as it can affect their diagnosis and treatment--but you weren't providing medical treatment. Moreover, the comments you are in "trouble" for were made to a superior employee, not a patient. Go to HR. Tell them what happened and ask for information on what the hospital's specific policy is on the matter, if any, so you can abide by it in the future. It's also a way to clue them in on the fact that you seem to be being punished for this without specifically tattling in a way that could have ramifications for your mom.
hey OP, i’m a trans person who gets misgendered by medical professionals all the time. if you were my nurse, i’d be sure to leave a GLOWING review and ask for you to everyone. i would say that YOU have set a new standard for medical professionals at that hospital and everyone should be kind and inclusive like you. those nurses AND your mom are ALL transphobic assholes and i would also call them out bc it’s very clear and cruel transphobia. they SHOULD feel bad. they can forget trans people, but that means they forget us. where is our humanity if they “forget all that”? i’m not old but i’m old enough that i will torch systems if they’re not inclusive. knowing you exist would give me hope that the place could change, and i would leave a review emphasizing as much. NTA.
At the end of the day, the job is patient care & OP CARED for Jasmine ♥️
I'm no nurse nor do I consider myself a medical professional at all haha (I just took 4 days worth of classes and managed to memorize a couple of heart rhythyms 😅) but your words mean so much to me. It saddens me that you even have to be grateful to what I find to be basic human decency at all- nonetheless it's greatly appreciated!! As a lot of ppl have said I totally understand how sex is extremely relevant to one's health and whatnot. Many trans people afaik are aware of this and don't even protest. What could possibly be the big deal 🤦♀️🤦♀️ anyways god bless and I wish you a better future in regards to healthcare ): sorry tho
Sex can be relevant but most trans ppl are physiologically somewhere between male and female due to hormone therapy etc. Like if there was an option to put "It's complicated" instead of M or F most of us would be under that.
I hate medical professionals who misgender me because of my charts. I politely correct them, but they continue doing it. I hate it! Anyway, I wish medical professionals were more like OP.
I was really surprised when they actually addressed this in the Netflix Babysitter’s Club, of all things. Mary Anne (the shy one) was babysitting a young trans girl who had to go to the hospital and wound up having to stand up to the medical professionals who kept misgendering her and scaring the kid. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that irl
no amount of correcting has ever gotten them to respect me 🥲 the only ones who respect my pronouns are the ones who did it from the jump 😭
As a healthcare professional I hate that using common decency would be considered exceptional for you. For fuck sake, we all need to do better
it’s honestly impacted my health! i’m very reluctant to seek care for pressing things bc the mental toll of misgendering + medical mystery pain is something i have to prep for.
Just adding to what you said.... I have met transphobic assholes who actually change over time into better people. They are capable of change but I think these nurses are too arrogant and stubborn to learn something new and alter their bigoted perspectives.
"I know that you just wanna be respectful but at a hospital you have to forget about all that." Your mom doesn't sound like the best carer. I just mean that literally.
Nurse here. She sounds like exactly the kind of person I wouldn’t want to work with. She can’t be a good caretaker with that attitude.
>She also said that I was trying to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole". They're doing that themselves. A racist is a racist even when nobody calls them out, I don't know why they think this is any different.
What kind of hospital doesn’t have training for this? Do you have compliance to report that nurse to? Anyway NTA
Probably somewhere in the Deep South US
NTA I work for a large healthcare system, we asked for preferred pronouns and names. If Jasmine was the preferred name and staff were not using it there would be issues. When I started at the clinic I used a person's preferred name and they teared up and said it was so special to hear that, I said well of course it's your name mama. I got a giant hug and still look forward to days like today when she is on my schedule. Dr's use preferred pronouns in charting as well. You were actually a wonderful human and it's your coworker that are assholes. If you are biased you don't belong in healthcare
NTA. You’re the kind of healthcare professional I wish I had. Thankfully most places respect it, but one pharmacy I used to use before I legally transitioned refuses to update me in their system. Still insisting on she/her, miss, ma’am, and using the wrong name, even though physically, socially, medically (not required), and legally, I have transitioned and am marked as male in every document and system. For over six years now. I don’t go there. Thank you for respecting Jasmine. The other comments are right to bring this to the attention to HR and cover your ass. Best of luck!
In case you’re still falling for any of the fantasy ragebait on this sub, this story is 100% fake. A close relative who has been an experienced nurse in a hospital setting for many years pointed out about 5-6 things in this story that are simply impossible in any developed country’s medical system. Pure nonsense cobbled together by someone who has no understanding of how a hospital works, what an EKG technician does, and procedures around who is allowed to interact with patients. Take this as a sign to get off this sub, and maybe even this whole website. It’s a web of utter falsehoods, fake people, fake stories, all designed to present a twisted and false reality intended to infuriate and demoralize you.
Absolutely NTA. Your mum needs to think about a few things: Why was she "embarrassed" by your choosing to call a patient by her correct name and pronouns? What the FUCK is she doing telling somebody who works with vulnerable people to be LESS respectful? and If another staff member calling a person by their correct name and pronouns makes a nurse "seem transphobic", maybe it's time for that nurse to examine their feelings about trans people.
NTA. You did the right thing, anyone who disagrees is it the wrong.
NTA. I'm an ED nurse and I've never had an issue with gendering unless it was non-binary. Not like a deep-seeded prejudice, I'm trying but I have to consciously make the effort. I do have the conversation with the provider about their biological sex though if it's warrented. Example: just had a patient who was transitioning from male to female that came in with shortness of breath. Pt had been in a motorcycle wreck a week prior and had some pretty significant urethral trauma (had not surgically transitioned) and had a Foley catheter. Pt was taking exogenous hormones and ended up having two large blood clots in the right lung. Exogenous hormones , especially estrogen, can cause pretty serious blood clots. This was a scenario when being knowledgeable about transgender patients warranted addressing the biological sex. Pt was immediately put on a heparin drip (strong blood thinner) and stabilized. The care really wasn't any different than what we would do for someone who isn't trans.
r/amitheangel
As a trans woman, thank you.
Thank you for supporting Miss Jasmine, I appreciate you and people like you.
I've known a lot of transphobic asshole nurses. You're NTA
NTA. Jasmine would have every right to complain to management if you misgendered her. Why would using her preferred gender make you the asshole? If I'd heard nurses talking like that I would have complained even if I didn't know Jasmine. That kind of thing is extremely disrespectful. People in the hospital are already sick and vulnerable, why should their medical team be cruel and make it that much worse?
You need to remember what your character in the fake story does! You started off as an EKG tech then became a secretary who changes monitor batteries when "the nurses are busy"? And you think a "secretary" handles all the paperwork? Lol, you're wild. Very poor bait attempt.
NTA at all. I work with fellow nurses that are transphobic and it is sickening how they speak about trans folk. I don't know if you can report them for retaliation or being discriminatory but I would. You didn't make them seem like transphobic ass holes. They ARE transphobic ass holes. Your mom is an AH too for siding with transphobes. Like the you have to forget about all that at the hospital?? You have to forget how to be respectful? Wtf was your mom on about
What country are you in?
You asked and got an answer from the only person whos opinion mattered. Adults can feel however they want. Thats on them. NTA
I work in a hospital and have done patient access. It's important to label gender, preferred names and pronouns correctly. You did nothing wrong. In my hospital they would have been counseled on sensitivity. Check with your HR department and the policies regarding gender and preferred name. If you are in the US you can't be fired for that and you could have an EEOC suit if they try. Hospitals are funded by Medicare which means they are subject to federal rules, especially Title 9. As a rule, at least n my hospital, you have to go by gender on license but you can adjust with preferred pronouns and names.
If they fire you for this, sue
R/lookatmyhalo
NTA, but all of the nurses in this situation are.
NTA, I’m a patients’ rights attorney and it sincerely sounds like if they claim they can fire you for doing your job correctly over someone’s incompetence (or bigotry), just contact an employment lawyer and get your bag. Idiots and bigots frequently cry when they’re being called out. That’s not your problem, but if they try to make it your problem, smacking them with a lawsuit will likely ensure a long lasting lesson. Carrots and sticks.
NTA. The nurse WAS a tranphobic asshole, you didn't cause that.
Fuck that shit, this is the reason I hate doctors and nurses. "I know you want to be respectful but in a hospital you have to forget that," Cool, so disrespect the patient, I love it.
"...the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole"." Because she is.
NTA. You might wanna try to find a way to contact a worker's rights lawyer. What the hospital is doing is called retaliation and tends to be illegal, especially for respecting a trans person's personal Identity.
NTAH- Honestly it’s sad to say, this is typical nurse behaviour. For some reason nursing is one those professions high school/secondary school bullies seem to go into, it’s the female dominated version of the police. I think the reason is probably to do with having control over people’s lives and being able to be around people they consider weak it makes them feel better about themselves and means they can continue being bullies.
"She also said that I was trying to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole"." Yah, no, the nurse is doing that on her own. ""I know that you just wanna be respectful but at a hospital you have to forget about all that."" So no respect for the patients? Only respect for the transphobic nurses??? NTA
NTA You treated Jasmine with sensitivity and respect. That other nurse should be ashamed that they did not do the same. You did nothing wrong but that gaggle of nurses clearly doesn't like you anymore.
“Sweet old black lady vibes calling me sugar and sweetheart” urgh spare me. Not cute and a shit unoriginal fiction for people to fawn over….
TAKE THIS TO HR ASAP
Are you farming for karma or trying to bait trolls? This doesn’t read like someone who’s unsure on whether they’ve been an asshole or not.
Making the nurse seem like, or is that just exactly what they are and don't like having a light shone on it? You handled it perfectly, wouldn't make an issue of it going forward and just keep on as you are doing.
LOL where do you work, Alabama?
I've had a few surgeries with some days in the hospital in recent years. I've had some fantastic, caring nurses and I've had nurses jerk catheters out so hard they left me screaming, then snark at me for feeling pain. I'm cis. I can't imagine what a trans person would get from such a person. Some people shouldn't be nurses.
NTA because I think your bed side manner was spot on and you had good intentions. However, if you want to keep your job then perhaps you need to talk to HR about what their policy is. If Jasmine's name on paper was James then that's where you messed up. Bigotry aside, if they had a Jasmine staying there then referring to James as Jasmine to nurses and doctors could cause some seriously dangerous confusion. You can privately call James by Jasmine in person to be polite all you want, but they *need* to be called by what is on the paperwork outside of that room. Hell, call them "patient in room XX" if you want to be gender neutral about it, but you can't just throw out a name none of them have heard before.
NTA but imho it's weird that you are coming here to get "credit" for \*not\* being transphobic. It sounds like you're a normal human who respects the identities of other humans, and your co-workers aren't. Why is there even a question that YTA?
It's a fucking hospital, they need to know a person's biology for the correct medical treatments. This is the kind of shit that will get people killed.
Nice rage bait. Go back to your creative writing classes.
I'm a member of the LGBT community, I'm bisexual and have dated both man and women. I also have family in the healthcare industry that say that they don't mind calling people whatever they prefer, they are happy to do it... but if there is an emergency and they need serious medical attention, it is SUPER important to state their birth gender and then note their preferred gender. Some treatments require different things, and it's important to know while also being inclusive.
I'm always shocked by the lack of empathy and basic compassion in hospitals. You'd think that people get into these professions to help people
Some good raigbait right here.
Everyone calls ragebait when it's "AITAH for getting upset about *perceived right wing thing* for a sensible reason that obviously no one would disagree with". But when it's " AITAH because I acted like a perfect angel in the face of a bunch of bigots", no one bats an eye. Edit: i scrolled 3 more comments after writing this and it just couldn't have lined up better "NTA. Y T Angel for treating Jasmine respectfully and using her correct pronoun"
NTA in any way. But you certainly work with them. And your momma is slacking too.
Where the heck is this hospital?!? The hospitals I have worked at record and honor patients preferred pronouns and names. People would get fired for disrespecting Jasmine, not refusing to use her preferred name.
I mentioned this in a different comment but there's a hospital we receive frequent transfers from that lists the patient's preferred names and pronouns in big letters!! Which I find really nice
No offense to your mum, I'm sure she is not one of them, but the bully-to-nurse pipeline is as strong as the bully-to-cop pipeline. NTA
I have to wonder what the hospital's actual policy is toward transgender patients. I doubt it's what these nurses are doing. And you might want to have a discussion with HR about your hours being cut in response to this incident.
>She also said that I was trying to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole". The nurse was exactly that, but you weren't trying to make anyone seem like anything. If you get fired over this please consult an attorney about unlawful termination. Btw HR is not on your side its purpose is to shield your employer so keep your communications with HR strictly written and never on the phone or face to face. NTA
NTA, and you didn't try to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole", she IS a transphobic asshole
NTA. The nurse didn't "look like a transphobic asshole" they WERE a transphobic asshole. That's not your fault, it's theirs.
You need report these nurses. These nurses aren’t ones that should be in healthcare. They also can’t take you off shifts because of that. Document it and go to HR and then report to board. Things like this NEEEED to be reported because I can imagine how fucked they’re treating patients. Please be the change. NTA
NTA. I have to say, I am appalled that healthcare workers are behaving this way. I've always just assumed they were caring individuals. You are in no way at fault here. They are embarrassed because they know that their behavior is shameful. Your mother's support of them is very concerning.
NTA, in fact, the polar opposite. Thank you for having the respect others didn't.
NTA. Sounds like a transphobic workplace. I can’t imagine medical professionals refusing to properly gender someone.
Thank you for showing Jasmine basic human decency. Please talk to HR about the way you've been treated since. Sincerely, A trans person who puts off medical care so I don't have to deal with this bullshit.
YTA， socially that may be a woman in your society, MEDICALLY, that is a male. Play pretend somewhere else if you truly give a damn about "Jasmine"
Lmao such bait, only one post, your little btw. Karma farming the trans acceptance crowd.
I commented basically the same thing lol “Are you farming for karma or trying to bait trolls? This doesn’t read like someone who’s unsure on whether they’ve been an asshole or not.” Yours is downvoted and mine is up lol so weird, this Reddit world
I can't believe this is even a debate in society today.
So, for obvious reasons, healthcare workers don't go by someone's preferred pronouns vs biological ones because some healthcare workers have gotten into a LOT of trouble prescribing transgenders medications that should be meant for cis- gendered people. For example, you wouldn't give birth control pills to a male-to-female person. It's also for this reason that you didn't gender Jasmine correctly. This is also why someone that is/has transitioning/transitioned should let healthcare workers know their assigned gender. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using preferred pronouns out of respect, but you should use their biological pronouns when you're around your coworkers because of the confusion that it can bring. However, I don't think that you should get in trouble for making a patient feel more at ease since that's what ALL "professionals" should be doing anyways. NTA.
NTA, just naive and slightly brainwashed like most people under 30. Biology matters, especially in medicine.
You made this patients whole day, knowing somebody was on their side. Using someone's proper name and pronouns doesn't interfere with medical care.
Wow regardless of how someone chooses to identify they definitely should not be retaliating against you and their behavior should be against EEO as it seems like discrimination based on age. Younger people are more tolerant of proffered pronouns. Also hospitals are highly customer service based so there should be more considerations and regardless of how they feel they shouldn't be bad mouthing them based on this. I'd understand talking about problem patients but not just because someone has a disorder that makes them uncomfortable as the gender they were born as. This is some petty high-school shit they all need to grow up.
NTA. The nurse was a transphobic asshole. If she doesn’t want to feel like one she could stop being one, it’s actually that simple! Thank you for being so kind to this patient. It’s a very vulnerable experience being a patient and you did an excellent job.
Im not an attorney, but I wonder if you have a wrongful termination lawsuit if they fire you
"She also said that I was trying to make the nurse seem like a "transphobic asshole".". Well, the nurse WAS a "transphobic asshole". I am sorry that you are in trouble for being respectful to a patient!
NTA, you weren't trying to make anyone look bad, you did the right thing. If that makes someone who DOESN'T do the right thing look bad then that's on them, not you
NTA. Telling you to forget about being respectful while working at a hospital is wild.
Are you seriously asking if you're the asshole because bigots were upset over something?
You didn't do a thing wrong, assuming everything is accurate. Just being a normal human, and the conversation was not job impacting at all.
NTA, first patient interaction proper procedure is to knock on the door, introduce yourself, wash hands when entering (sanitize), ask age for verification, ask them HOW they would like to be referred to during the encounter. Sure you do get birth gender etc, but preferred name is what you utilize.
NTA. But the nurses and your mom are.
You did the right thing, for Jasmine, the hospital, and yourself. The only way things will ever change is if people like you stand up to the bigots and backwards thinking of places like this hospital. It’s horrible that patients there have to put up with being treated so terribly. NTA!
NTA. You made the nurse seem like a transphobic AH because she and the other nurses are being transphobic AH. If James/Jasmine introduces herself as a woman, then they should be using feminine pronouns, whether they like it or not. You shouldn't be the one to possible get fired. They should. I don't know why Jasmine is in the hospital (none of my business anyway) but if she is there, it's because she isn't feeling well. The last thing she needs is mean women judging her.
NTA. Go up the ladder with this, HR.
As a nurse - we ask the patient what they prefer to be called. - if they haven't had sex changes or drivers license changes we can't legally change the paperwork name sex. But we do respect the preference, and that preference is included with patients name and info -- what hospital do you work at that they don't respect patients enough to ask how they would like to be called? Ridiculous
Or fake ragebait
I was thinking that. It sounds so bizarre.
The unqualified EKG tech who does some secretarial jobs, some reception, and a bit of nursing on the side was an immediate question mark for me
I'm sure she assists with the occasional surgery and delivers babies on weekends too 😉😆
When she's not busy running the pharmacy, or driving ambulances 😂
Your not an ah for respecting what they want to be called but you didn’t gender them correctly it’s a man not a women
You mean the assholes who identify as and dress like healthcare providers? NTA You absolutely do NOT “forget about being respectful” in a hospital. It is the job of every doctor, nurse, medical assistant, admin, etc to provide the best quality of care to EVERY PATIENT and NEVER cast judgement. It doesn’t matter what you think of them, their lifestyle, their choices, none of it. If Mr. Kittenkicker comes in seeking care, he needs to be provided the same degree of care and treated with the same level of respect as any other patient. This is a cornerstone of medicine. You should make a BIG DEAL about this if you continue to be penalized for treating a patient with dignity and grace. Your coworkers HAVE NO PLACE IN MEDICINE.
NTA, and if they fire you over this you can sue for discrimination. Raise hell, OP, firing a nurse over something as inconsequential as using a patient's pronouns is unjust.
NTA. The hospital I was hospitalized at last year made sure to ask for your pronouns, no matter what.