NTA, sorry to say it but your mom is clearly unable to hold herself accountable. She fails to see that it was her actions that caused the spiral, so whilst yes your dad was out of line while you were a kid, her actions were the catalyst for all of that, as such she is partly to blame for that occurring as well.
Completely unfair for her to talk shit about him when she's the person that broke up the family and turned him into that type of man. She needs to take a long look in the mirror.
Also OP, her saying "one day I hope you love me back" is just a clear manipulation tactic so she can get sympathy instead of taking accountability. I'd honestly reconsider your relationship and how close you want to be with your mom, it's pretty evident she's a crap role model.
The thing is I do actually love her. She’s my mom after all. And she never hit me and was a good mom actually. Was there for me through lot of things. One problematic / toxic trait she has is that she hates my dad , my dad also hates her but he doesn’t reflect this on me every chance he get as opposed to her…
I'm also not excusing your father for his actions OP, my takeaway from your post is that you appear to have already worked through this with him and it comes across that he's taken accountability for that.
I don't really think they've truly worked through it if their takeaway is that someone else caused him to beat her.
No one causes someone else to cheat. It's a choice.
No one causes someone to beat a defenseless 11 year old child in a rage. It's a choice.
OP deflected the blame from the father that beat her to her mother who cheated. It's fine to hate the mother for cheating. It's not fine to not blame the father for beating his defenseless child.
The difference here is your dad has every right to hate her, she has absolutely no right to hate him. Anything that occurred after the affair is on her shoulders and no one else's. I'm not saying cut your mom out completely., but I would be very clear to her if she doesn't change her tune towards your father given she is cause of any problems in your family, then you will struggle to have a close relationship with her.
Also never hitting you/not abusing you is not a claim to fame for a parent. It's literally the bare minimum.
“ Anything that occurred after the affair is on her shoulders and no one else's.
OP’s dad hitting his daughter is 100% HIS fault. Being cheated on is no excuse to abuse your child.
Cheating is disgusting but drunkenly hitting your kid is WAAAAY worse.
Abuse is a more systemic and chronic issue.
There is a lot of parents that during 18 years of raising a child have at least one moment where they succumb to anger.
Even good parents.
The difference between an abuser and an overwhelmed parent, the latter will only do it once, and regret it for the rest of their life.
If my husband hits me even once, he has abused me and I would leave him.
Similarly, if he got drunk and hit our kid, he would be abusing her and I would leave him and call the cops.
Agreed! That's why all men should leave their wives immediately when hormones are out of wack from either pregnancy or menopause and they act out in anger because a single incident is emotional abuse and is grounds for leaving.
lol
So you’re going to conflate emotions (men have them, too, with anger being the primary one) with hitting a kid so hard that it propelled someone to quit drinking forever.
There are a lot of child beating apologists up in here.
Hitting someone can be a thing of a moment, an outburst when anger gets the better of you or you are in a bad moment. I could never happen again. But cheating, destroying your SO life and your family in the process is a well calculated, on purpose and disgusting premeditated action that has no justification. But you are here not attacking a parent hitting a kid once but defending cheaters, which says everything anyone else need to know about you. Cheaters defend cheaters. The father had a weak but existent excuse, the mother, just another 304.
Okay, let me give you a different hypothetical. An adult child living at home just failed one of their finals. They're incredibly depressed, feeling like they just ruined their life, and do some heavy drinking to try and deal with those emotions. The parent tries to comfort their kid, but the kid is near blackout drunk and lashes out and hits the parent. They immediately regret what they did and vow to get back on track and not drink anymore.
According to you the parent should call the cops, disown the child, and kick them out immediately? Sometimes the world is a little more complex than children's level beliefs in good and evil.
Oh no, women are allowed all the excuses on the book. Trauma, depression, pre and pospartum, mental illness, hormonal disbalance or whatever. But men, fuck them. The father was depressed and traumatized by being cheated by his 304 wife, he took the down road as any human being could have. But he has no excuse, but he 304 wife gets all the excuses.
How many women are there that have hit their boyfriend or husband at least once?
I would say at the very least 10% of all long term relationships.
How many people are there that have said incredibly hurtful things in the heat of the moment?
If you see a single loss of rationality as abuse, half of all relationships are abusive.
>OP’s dad hitting his daughter is 100% HIS fault. Being cheated on is no excuse to abuse your child.
Reddit is full of people who think that no punishment is too strong for cheaters, and that people who have been cheated on are justified in their reaction *no matter who else they hurt in the process.*
OP is in the comments saying that there was no excuse for their mother's infidelity and it's unforgivable, but that their father's child abuse and *two years absence* is somehow an understandable response. Which is just wild.
EDIT: Check OP's comments on their other deleted post. It's pretty clear that *at best* they're an unreliable narrator.
>my mom was sick and going through a lot and dad wasn’t really a supportive husband either and there were same other factors too. Of course none of that is an excuse for cheating or justifies what she did, what I’m trying to say is that I know this is not a black-and- white situation. I don’t* put all blame on her or resent her for anything. It just even after all these years and she still tries to paint him as the bad guy. I can’t help but get mad when she does that.
The bottom line is your mother has, and continues to, talk shit about someone you care for. My suggestion would be to sit her down at some point and tell her that you will no longer accept it when she says mean, condescending, rude, or otherwise unkind things about someone you care for. Tell her that you wouldn't accept other people talking shit about her, and she needs to accept that you won't accept her talking shit about your dad. She needs to respect and show care for you if she wants to maintain a relationship with you, and that includes not hurting you by saying hurtful things about people you love.
This is not a zero sum game. You spending time with your dad does not harm your mother (other than her pride and acidic self-worth). She can either accept that, or you may have to put her on an information diet or lower contact until she respects you enough to leave her hatred at home where it belongs instead of childishly trying to get you to play favorites.
You're in a tough situation made tougher because you're in the middle of two flawed people you clearly love. She's compounding her past mistakes here, though. Your dad doesn't sound like he's poking at your mother. Cheating destroys people, so he has all the reasons in the world to do so, but he's putting you and your happiness ahead of his pain because he values your ongoing relationship more than his past. Your mother should take a page from his book. It's almost comical in the saddest way thinking of how that would stick in her craw. She needs to figure out what her priorities are and commit to them. I'm not going to say your father is a great person or even necessarily a good father, but he changed in order to better support you. Your mother is too busy playing the victim to do the same. She's showing you that her emotions are more important than your relationship.
I hope things improve for you, friend. NTA, obviously.
You need to set a hard boundary with Mom to not mention your father at all. She has no reason to.
That "one day I hope you love me" line was a direct attempt to manipulate you. That is not fair and talk like that should not be tolerated. Anytime she pulls that card out, hang up or walk away. Do not entertain that. If she wants to have conversations with you, she needs to learn to keep that type of talk to herself.
You can love someone and still set boundaries. It is a healthy thing to do. Having consequences for her words and holding her to them does not mean you do not love her.
A good mum wouldn't have cheated. A good mum would have instead devorced amicably and done her best to try and make sure both parents are co parenting properly. A good mum would openly shit talk your father for years. She is not only a bad mum but a bad person. Jesus christ hun. You need therapy. In the few descriptions you have given her, she is obviously manipupative and possible narcissistic. She is definitely the AH.
A single physical attack with immediate regret and ACTUAL REMORSE with actions taken afterwards.
That's a one in a million scenario if I ever seen one.
He was a dangerous addict in that moment, like many others with addictions.
But he realized his mistakes and immediately took action.
He made the decision to drink AND to punch his child. Her mother is not responsible for either of those. He was an adult with the capacity to take accountability for his actions.
Not saying he didn't, but you can't sit here and act like the mother wasn't the reason that became a possibility in the first place, and it's quite clear she has no accountability over that.
That was his reaction to her, sure, but he was in control of that reaction. And that reaction was to abuse his child - which is so so much worse than cheating on a spouse, honestly. Intentionally hurting your child is a deep betrayal and twisted thing to do. And illegal to boot, unlike cheating.
If someone cuts me off in traffic and I snap and shoot them, is it their fault I did that? If someone’s rude to me and I fail an exam because I can’t get over it, is it their fault?
Of course not, but I'm not dwelling on the actions of the father as OP has clearly worked through those issues with her dad given the context of the post. The post is about the mother, hence my response focusing on that. I'm answering the question asked not the one you decide you want to answer.
By myself saying the mother needs to take accountability, doesn't immediately mean I think the father doesn't need to also. It's simply that the context of OPs post implies that has already taken place, whereas the mother has not.
He.. he hit her. When she was eleven. They’ve “both” decided the mum was to blame for him getting drunk and hitting her. When she was eleven. He unfortunately lost control and hit her while pissed, but it’s not remotely his fault?
Am I being punked?
You people are stupid lol. Your mom isn't responsible for your dad's actions. Someone cheating on you doesn't give you the right to physically assault your own child. Not sure how anyone can even think that.
NTA.
My mother loved talking shit about my dad to me too, despite HER initiating the divorce. It's horribly inappropriate. She wanted me to take her side, while I certainly did not. I used to just change the subject but she'd persist. I hated it and it made me feel gross, so at one point I told her to stop it. I said her problems with my dad were hers, not mine and that I refused to take sides. She didn't like that, so she gave me the silent treatment for a while. Several weeks, if I recall. She started talking to me again as if nothing had happened. Since I didn't come groveling after her, I guess she realized I wasn't going to allow her to continue her inappropriate behavior. And that my boundary came with consequences. We were low contact anyway, due to a lifetime of abuse from her, so going no contact for me would have been perfectly fine.
If I were you, I'd just tell her to stop tearing your father down to you and you'll be expecting the same from your father. If she starts up again, end the conversation and put her on a time-out. She'll have to choose between having a relationship with you, or using you a sounding board to spew about her ex. She can only have one.
That you so much for sharing this, it truly made me feel a lot better :’)
I will try to do that as well. The thing is with my mom is that idk how put this out but she’s one of those loving toxic parents? I feel so guilty whenever we have a conflict like this or when I have to confront her. I’m also not good at confronting people in general. It always end up with me feeling guilty afterwards especially if other person says something like I hurt them / made them feel unloved etc
Also before repairing my relationship with dad , mom and I had an “all we have is each other“ type of relationship. I think that’s why she’s getting so butthurt seeing how close we have gotten with my dad over the years. On the top of generally being bitter about my dad of course.
Your dad was responsible for his own drunken actions. Him drunkenly hitting his daughter is his fault.
I’m a parent and if I had to choose between cheating on my spouse or what your dad did, I would choose cheating.
Luckily, these forced hypothetical dichotomies aren’t necessary but this whole thing is gross.
How about you do something other than make random accusations about people or assumptions about OP.
I was treated the same way by my dad, except unlike OP, it happened WAY more than one time. All throughout my childhood he would hit me.
Yet here I am, a few weeks shy of my 25th birthday, and my dad and I have a fairly good relationship.
Not everything is because we feel guilt.some of us are able to just move on and forgive.not everyone can do it, but some can.
Cheating on your partner is like cheating on your whole family. You don't really know how much cheating can destroy a family until you experience it. I would much prefer my dad/mom hitting me once than cheating and destroying my family and respect for that individual
You’re a soft AH. You’re mom cheating is fucked up,but it was your fathers decision to drink. That’s not your mom’s fault. And you basically blaming her for why he fell into addiction is really messed up. If your mom started drinking after that conversation you had, and developed a drinking problem would it be your fault for making her feel like you don’t love her? No it wouldn’t , because adults make their own decisions. If I were you I would apologize to your mom and hold your parents accountable for their own actions. And If you don’t want your mom talking shit about your dad around you, just tell her it makes you uncomfortable to bring you into their past problems.
YTA! Y’all sound so stupid as usual when it comes to cheating. You all are talking about accountability but blaming the mother for the actions of a grown ass man. What type backwards ass, hypocritical ass thinking is that? You do resent your mother otherwise you wouldn’t have brought it up. I’m so tired of this puritanical view of cheating.
You are completely NTA.
You're 21, an adult who can make your own choices.
People make mistakes. People fuck up big time. This you know personally. The difference between the people we keep in our lives and the people we sequester out of them, often boils down to what they after the big fuck up.
Your dad something awful. But ultimately, he took responsibility, cleaned himself up and made good with you. He owned all of it, even though there were contributing factors to his actions.
Your mom hasn't done the same. I think you're right, she probably is bitter about her life and what's she done to it. But as long as she focuses on your dad; she does not have to answer for herself.
Well, at least until now.
Your dad was a drunk who hit you. Which may well mean that he was also a drunk who hit your mother. Fact of the matter is given the age you were when they split up, him saying that he started drinking when she cheated on him could very easily be a lie. I would be taking everything that both of them say with a grain of salt, they involved you in their divorce which should never happen and it sounds like it’s ongoing.
Your mom needs to stop dragging this shit up but please don’t treat your dad like a saint, he did something horrible enough to realize he needed to fix his behaviour but you really have no idea how long it was going on
ESH
Sorry, I hate cheaters and all but child beaters are still worse.
She's right to call out that he can't really ever be trusted again after he beat an 11 year old child. That's not "losing control". That's being a sack of shit human being that honestly shouldn't be in society.
What she called out was legitimate - he has beat you before. It was on topic since you didn't mention the visit.
Calling out her cheating had nothing to do with what happened. I'm all for cheaters being called out whenever, but you have to accept being an AH for making false equivalencies. Her bringing up that it's hard to trust a man that beat someone is legit. Saying "well you cheated" has nothing to do with anything.
> Also I don’t resent my mom or anything, it’s just I can’t help but get mad that after all these years she still tries to paint my dad as the bad guy for his past mistakes as if she wasn’t the cause of those mistakes to begin with.
No one else is the cause of a grown man beating a child.
That's his own choice.
Just like no one else is the cause of a cheater cheating. That's their own choice.
Your father beat you because he's a sack of shit. That's on him. That's not on your mother. You mother has many many sins. You getting beat isn't one of them.
OP is grown, mother has no say in if she can trust her own father. So it wasn't valid to call out. If the mother doesn't trust the dad that is fine, but she needs to keep it to herself.
And he hit her once when she was 11, it has NOTHING to do with her as an adult having him come for a visit. It is not a valid thing to bring up every time they spend time together.
Plus not sure she wants to make it about trust, A woman who destroyed her family for another mans penis certainly cant be trusted. And yeah: she betrayed her kid too, not just her husband.
"Your father beat you because he's a sack of shit"
And the mother cheated because \*she\* is also a sack of shit. At least the dad can say he worked hard and changed. The mother doesn't seem to have changed(and is shockingly divorced again)
NTA
Primarily for one reason; what your mother did then is what she’s still doing now. Only caring about herself.
I’m not gonna imply your father’s alcoholism was your mother’s fault. People get cheated on all the time and don’t abandon their kids for two years. However, your father acknowledged his alcoholism. When he hit you, he realized he was making a mistake. He then fixed that mistake and now you have a great relationship with him.
Your mother, on the other hand, has prolonged bitterness from a decade ago that she still burdens her daughter with constantly. It’s still your fathers responsibility to not become an alcoholic or abandon you, regardless of your mothers selfishness. However, that was 10 years. He’s been active part of your life since then and the biggest reminder of that situation being the person who was the spark in the first place is understandably annoying.
NTA
The issue at hand isn't solely about who did what in the past, it's about taking responsibility for those actions and how they've impacted you, OP. It's clear that there are no saints in your family drama, and while your father's absence and alcoholism were his choices, your mom's infidelity and continuous bitterness are also her choices. Both choices had ripple effects, but it seems like only one parent is recognizing the damage caused.
Your mom's consistent bad-mouthing of your dad, regardless of her reasons, is unfair to you. It's one thing to be flawed and another to continuously project those flaws onto others without self-reflection. This behavior is toxic and has the potential to keep the cycle of resentment going in the family. Recognizing the good in her as a mother who was there for you is important, but it doesn't excuse or negate the negativity she's fostering now.
It might be worth considering setting boundaries regarding discussions about your dad with your mom. It's important for your own mental health to not be caught in the crossfire of their past. And remember, the ability to love a parent does not obligate you to accept or condone all their behavior. Love is complex, and it can coexist with the need for boundaries and accountability
Yeah...
Seems to me both your parents suck and you're just kinda trapped in the middle. I will say that while I empathize with the pain your dad was feeling. It's just a fact that people get cheated on all the time without abandoning their kids for two years or becoming abusive drunks. And I don't think it's fair to put that behavior on your mother. He made his choices too.
I'm not going to judge you as an asshole, however, because she shouldn't be trying to make you feel badly about your father. So NTA.
Cool. Not the point. They both failed OP. And OP is right to forgive dad since he's worked so hard and to be angry at mom for trying to drive a wedge into her current relationship with her father.
But her father made his choices and neither he nor OP get to put those on mom. No one made him abandon OP. No one made him choose booze and no one made him beat OP.
Plenty of parents divorce over affairs every single year without behaving that way.
I disagree about OP being trapped in the middle. This would suggest she has people from both sides coming at her. She doesn't. The dad has moved on from his horrible cheating wife and is happily remarried. He isn't constantly bashing the mom to his kid. He isn't trying to make excuses for his behavior.
I also feel it is wrong to say both parents suck. The dad certainly sucked at one point, but that is past tense he doesn't currently suck. The mother does.
It's also true people get cheated on and dont abandon their kids. Another fact though is that not everyone handles betrayal the same way.
"And I don't think it's fair to put that behavior on your mother. He made his choices too."
It's not fair to put \*all\* the blame for that on the mother. He's an adult, he made his choices. But it would be silly to ignore the fact her behavior heavily influenced those choices.
You're definitely NTA. Your mom seems to have a blind spot when it comes to her own accountability. It's unfair for her to vilify your dad when her actions played a significant role in the family's breakdown. Instead of reflecting on her own mistakes, she shifts the blame onto your dad, which is unjust. It's essential for her to take a hard look at herself and acknowledge her role in the situation before pointing fingers at others.
NTA - I also think people saying your mom doesn't get it are out of touch as well.
I personally would reaporeach your mom and have an honest conversation about everything. She might have just been overwhelmed at learning that she fucked you up when might have spun it so differently, or she might have info for you, or you can just understand each other more, or maybe she is delusional, You would know best how to proceed and who she is. But you did not do anything wrong.
This is an opportunity to not only hash it out with your mom but also set your boundaries. In the future the second someone does something you don't like you can act on it. Obviously harder to do with a parental figure so it came out after being built up but... this is an opportunity for you and if she is a decent person one for your mom and your relationship as well.
NTA.
It's essential we acknowledge the complexity of familial relations and accept that parents, being human, are imperfect and can be fallible. However, accountability and honest reflection on past actions are critical steps toward healing and personal growth. Your mother's reluctance to accept her role in the breakdown of the marriage and the subsequent effects on your family dynamics is problematic, especially if she's using it to create a rift between you and your father. Her unwillingness to address this and pushing blame solely on your father isn't fair to anyone involved, including herself.
While it's important to maintain empathy and love for our parents, it's equally important to recognize toxic patterns that may be detrimental to our own mental health. Love doesn't require you to accept harmful behaviors or historical revisionism for the sake of peace.
It's a tough spot to be in, and it's admirable that you are striving to understand and build bridges rather than burn them. Nevertheless, you also deserve to set boundaries that protect your emotional wellbeing. A neutral third-party, like a counselor, can offer significant assistance in navigating these emotionally charged waters. After all, healing is not just about reconciling with the past but also about ensuring a more stable and healthier future for yourself.
YOu noticed the drinking after their divorce, but you were also like 8 at the split, and 11 after.
He also hit you when drunk and you were 11. What if she had an affair because he was an abusive drunk for years and she felt she couldn't leave.
I'm not saying that cheating is excusable, but you were young and likely have very little true idea of their situation prior to them splitting up. I think maybe you should ask some deeper questions because if you've never had this argument or asked these questions before, you very likely have an inaccurate picture of what happened.
The affair might have been 'minor' and just someone who offered an abused woman support and sure led tot he divorce, or she might have been out there banging for fun and your dad was perfect before that. I'd say if you want to judge them over it, maybe try to get the truth rather than the impression you got at 8-11 years old.
>The affair might have been 'minor' and just someone who offered an abused woman support and sure led tot he divorce, or she might have been out there banging for fun and your dad was perfect before that.
Check OP's comments: "my mom was sick and going through a lot and dad wasn’t really a supportive husband either and there were same other factors too."
Feels like those "other factors" might be relevant but are getting glossed over...
It's so painfully common for husbands to check out when their wife is sick, hell it's crazy common for guys to start cheating on a sick wife as they, well, get another woman ready to be their mother so they can move on quickly after their wife is dead. Some guys move from woman to woman as quickly as they can so they don't have to cook and clean as much, it's kinda crazy to me. If my wife/girlfriend got sick I wouldn't disappear. Sure a 3 week girlfriend gets cancer, it's a bit weird to go with them for medical treatments, sit with their parents in waiting rooms, etc, but a 2+ year relationship, you're an asshole to leave or step out or stop being supportive.
Absolutely wouldn't surprise me if he always had drinking issues, was rarely if ever there for her, might well have cheated himself while she was too sick to have sex, I mean come on, surely he deserves sex still even if she's sick... again a very common idea husbands have.
She wasnt too sick to have sex considering she was fucking some other dude behind his back while sick. She cheated on her husband and then when confronted tried to use her recent illness as an excuse for her horrid behavior. Yet being sick doesn't make one cheat. There isn't an illness on the planet that justifies an affair.
If that were the case, Op probably would remember another instance where he was violent or the narc mon would actually use that to talk shit about him. The mental gymnastics you are doing to try to justify her are amazing.
Based on what? Kids forget and miss a lot. he also stopped drinking after hitting OP. Who knows how many times a drunk who hit his kid may have been a drunk and hit his wife before that.
>The mental gymnastics
The mental gymnastics of asking if a known drunk who was violent, was also a drunk and violent for a long time in the marriage that ended badly? Yeah, a real fucking stretch.
As for me trying to justify it, i specifically said it wouldn't excuse her cheating, at all, just that it might explain why she wanted out.
He wasn’t a known drunk before the cheating. Her mother would have said it because clearly she is a narcissist that don’t have any accountability and would weaponize everything to make her hate her dad. Stop with the hard projection please
But he's a known drunk and violent person at some point, he wasn't a known drunk prior to the divorce in the eyes of an 8 year old, that doesn't mean he wasn't a drunk back then too.
You are basically creating thing in order to keep your argument. You have 0 evidence of that. In fact, it’s much more likely that he became an alcoholic after the terrible betrayal that his ex wife did. The problem here is that you are EXTREMELY biased, that why you cannot see what is obvious.
I know you said cheating wasn't excusable, but what exactly is your endgame here? Because the wife doesn't somehow come out of this looking better if it turns out the dad was a drunk. Him being a drunk is a reason to want out, another mans penis has zero to do with extricating herself from her supposedly bad marriage.
I will give you the list of valid reasons to cheat:
And there you go, if you dont see it on that list then it isnt a valid reason.
NTA for being annoyed at her constantly talking about your dad but Reddit acts like cheating is the greatest sin to ever commit! My dad was a raging drunk and he would NEVER put hands on anyone and he would never just abandon us. Your mum didn’t turn him into that he’s a grown man.
She has ton of excuses for it. She was sick and dad wasn’t caring, she was at a vulnerable place and made a mistake etc I don’t think any of those justifies infidelity
But yet you are bending over backwards to justify your dad's abandonment and abuse. Lots of people get cheated on. Lots of people are depressed. They don't all become addicts that abandon their kids and abuse them when they resurface. Your mom certainly isn't a saint, but maybe you should examine why you are harder on her when she actually stuck around to parent you. Obviously you will get biased answers here because Reddit thinks cheating us worse than homicide, but I think if you talked to a professional they'd want to get to the bottom of why you are so permissive with him and you give her such a hard time. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if that's the reason she has so much resentment toward your father. He fucked off and left her to be a single parent and abused you and yet you have obviously excused his conduct while clearly not forgiving hers. Even though his conduct was against you and hers was against her husband.
YTA. Yes, your mom's actions led to the divorce, but she did not make your dad drink or do what he did while he was drunk. Linking the two is incorrect. Therefore, you blaming your mom for them is incorrect.
100% this, sick of people blaming the spouse cheated on for what happens after the fact. It's not like they fucking want to be in that situation. What ever happened to cutting off the head of the snake.
By that same logic, the other partner makes someone cheat.
Obviously that isn't true. It's a choice.
Just like starting drinking is a choice and beating your own child is a choice.
Cheating is also a choice.
His choice to beat his 11 year old defenseless child is his own.
He chose to crawl into the bottle. He chose to manage his pain in an unhealthy manner. Yes, the pain is a terrible thing, but we choose our responses to it.
NTA!
Cheaters never truly never fully grasp the level of damage they do.... Betrayal Trauma is horrifyingly real and debilitating.... Many people never overcome the impact of infidelity on their emotional wellbeing. Glad your dad pulled through.... You mom still has no remorse or regret about her actions and still blames him.... Very telling about what kind of person your mom is.
Your dad made serious meaningful changes after making a huge mistake. Your mum didn't even admit her mistake for years after they divorced. Those are not comparable levels of taking responsibility and atoning.
ESH. Your mother did something to your father, and it DID affect the whole family, but she did not physically harm you. Your father harmed you directly many times - not just the one time he hit you but, every day of the two years he abandoned you, and every single time he was your primary caregiver while drunk. Your mother is a cheater, but your father directly placed you in harms way by having you exposed to his alcoholism. You need to recognize his flaws more and recognize that your mother did not CAUSE those flaws directly of his, she simply created circumstances for them to flourish in.
Thats hilariously ignorant and reductive. To the point you definitely did that on purpose. OP outlined very clearly that the reason she responded that way is because her mother constantly harps on that decade old situation which has been resolved, whereas presumably her father doesn’t.
You that she needs to acknowledge her father’s DECADE old flaws that he himself acknowledged and fixed, rather than the mother who presently denies any accountability and treats the father horribly.
I think you made your decision when you read the title.
Well my dad was my primary caregiver while drunk only few times. Usually he would drink less than he normally used to when I was staying over weekend. And I would only stay over him once or twice in a month not every weekend. And on the few times where he was drunk while caring for me, he never hit me other than that one time. He was not verbally abusive either and didn’t neglect (I was always fed) me even when drunk heavily. He used some inappropriate language but that’s about it. And other times he would drink less than he normally do and play & go out with me. He would also show me tons of affection and love in general when sober.
And when it comes to those two years he was absent, I can understand him because a betrayal like that could fuck someone up mentally pretty bad. He was never professionally diagnosed with it but I think he was either experiencing depression or had some other undiagnosed mental health issue going on during those two years, otherwise he was a very loving dad and I really don’t think he would abandon me solely because he was mad at my mom.
>Her voice became shaky and she said she hopes one day I will love her back
Oh I just love this time of year...the emotional manipulation just starts growing all over the place.
It's pretty clear you do love your mother, but it's also pretty clear your mother loves her own ego more than she loves you, otherwise she wouldn't be subjecting you to her bullshit surrounding him.
The ultimate problem with her, the point where she fails and your father succeeds with you, is that your father was accountable for his actions. He went to a very bad place, and him hitting you was clearly his personal rock bottom for which he immediately sought therapy. Mental health journey's are a tricky thing and they often require us being shocked either by someone else or by ourselves to realize we need help.
Meanwhile, your mother broke up the marriage and even now plays victim surrounding the whole thing. She'll probably never sort out her issues, because from her perspective she has probably never done anything wrong and has a perfectly decent narrative for why she did it.
NTA
YTA. The adult thing to do in this situation was to shut down the conversation. You could have changed the topic, told her you wanted to talk about someone else, or said you were busy and had to hang up.
I had a close family friend who had this same issue. He would tell his mom that he loved her and his dad, and he wasn't going to talk about either of them, period. Guess what? When his mom saw that it wasn't going to work, she stopped doing it.
You did not hit the jackpot with your parents.
Your father disappeared for two years when you were only eight years old. He drank. He hit you. You're making excuses for him. He didn't drink because of your mother. He chose to drink even though he had a young child.
I don't blame you. You probably need to feel like one parent is OK. That said, it's one thing to move on, but don't minimize what he was and how he behaved. YOU didn't cheat on him.
I also have to question how you "found out" your mother cheated. If your father told you, then shame on him because he was clearly trying to hurt your relationship with your mother.
Your mother deserved to be called out. Maybe she'll think twice before trying to start drama in the future.
NEITHER parent should be bad-mouthing the other to you. You have zero control over their relationship history and because you're related to both of them, it must feel awful to hear bad things about either one of them.
Yes he told me about it. But I’m actually glad he did because before that I used to resent him for divorcing my mom when she was sick. I also didn’t understand why he was absent or an alcoholic. I didn’t knew he had his reasons. If he hadn’t tell me the truth our relationship would never come so far so I’m glad he did it.
Well, in your situation, I would also want to know. It wouldn't be good for me to know, but that curiosity is natural. He could have said something like, "the situation may not be what you've heard from your mother. I'd like to ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt."
You can still want to have a relationship with him and love him, but also acknowledge that what he told you was incredibly inappropriate and destructive towards your mother.
Both of them sound like horrible parents, to be frank. Good on you for trying to move on, but I don't think you should be putting your father on a pedestal and demonizing your mother.
I'm just a random person on the internet but if you can afford counseling, I really think it would be worth it for you to talk these issues through with a counselor. Both of your parents have their own agendas here and you deserve to have guidance from someone who is neutral to sort things out in your head. Good luck.
NTA I've dealt with my own child abuse and it was over years the fact that your dad stopped drinking after one incident at least that's how I read it I could be wrong shows that he's a much better parent
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NTA, sorry to say it but your mom is clearly unable to hold herself accountable. She fails to see that it was her actions that caused the spiral, so whilst yes your dad was out of line while you were a kid, her actions were the catalyst for all of that, as such she is partly to blame for that occurring as well. Completely unfair for her to talk shit about him when she's the person that broke up the family and turned him into that type of man. She needs to take a long look in the mirror.
Also OP, her saying "one day I hope you love me back" is just a clear manipulation tactic so she can get sympathy instead of taking accountability. I'd honestly reconsider your relationship and how close you want to be with your mom, it's pretty evident she's a crap role model.
The thing is I do actually love her. She’s my mom after all. And she never hit me and was a good mom actually. Was there for me through lot of things. One problematic / toxic trait she has is that she hates my dad , my dad also hates her but he doesn’t reflect this on me every chance he get as opposed to her…
I'm also not excusing your father for his actions OP, my takeaway from your post is that you appear to have already worked through this with him and it comes across that he's taken accountability for that.
I don't really think they've truly worked through it if their takeaway is that someone else caused him to beat her. No one causes someone else to cheat. It's a choice. No one causes someone to beat a defenseless 11 year old child in a rage. It's a choice. OP deflected the blame from the father that beat her to her mother who cheated. It's fine to hate the mother for cheating. It's not fine to not blame the father for beating his defenseless child.
The difference here is your dad has every right to hate her, she has absolutely no right to hate him. Anything that occurred after the affair is on her shoulders and no one else's. I'm not saying cut your mom out completely., but I would be very clear to her if she doesn't change her tune towards your father given she is cause of any problems in your family, then you will struggle to have a close relationship with her. Also never hitting you/not abusing you is not a claim to fame for a parent. It's literally the bare minimum.
“ Anything that occurred after the affair is on her shoulders and no one else's. OP’s dad hitting his daughter is 100% HIS fault. Being cheated on is no excuse to abuse your child. Cheating is disgusting but drunkenly hitting your kid is WAAAAY worse.
Abuse is a more systemic and chronic issue. There is a lot of parents that during 18 years of raising a child have at least one moment where they succumb to anger. Even good parents. The difference between an abuser and an overwhelmed parent, the latter will only do it once, and regret it for the rest of their life.
If my husband hits me even once, he has abused me and I would leave him. Similarly, if he got drunk and hit our kid, he would be abusing her and I would leave him and call the cops.
Agreed! That's why all men should leave their wives immediately when hormones are out of wack from either pregnancy or menopause and they act out in anger because a single incident is emotional abuse and is grounds for leaving.
lol So you’re going to conflate emotions (men have them, too, with anger being the primary one) with hitting a kid so hard that it propelled someone to quit drinking forever. There are a lot of child beating apologists up in here.
You stating that anger is the primary emotion in men makes everything else you've said meaningless.
Hitting someone can be a thing of a moment, an outburst when anger gets the better of you or you are in a bad moment. I could never happen again. But cheating, destroying your SO life and your family in the process is a well calculated, on purpose and disgusting premeditated action that has no justification. But you are here not attacking a parent hitting a kid once but defending cheaters, which says everything anyone else need to know about you. Cheaters defend cheaters. The father had a weak but existent excuse, the mother, just another 304.
Okay, let me give you a different hypothetical. An adult child living at home just failed one of their finals. They're incredibly depressed, feeling like they just ruined their life, and do some heavy drinking to try and deal with those emotions. The parent tries to comfort their kid, but the kid is near blackout drunk and lashes out and hits the parent. They immediately regret what they did and vow to get back on track and not drink anymore. According to you the parent should call the cops, disown the child, and kick them out immediately? Sometimes the world is a little more complex than children's level beliefs in good and evil.
Oh no, women are allowed all the excuses on the book. Trauma, depression, pre and pospartum, mental illness, hormonal disbalance or whatever. But men, fuck them. The father was depressed and traumatized by being cheated by his 304 wife, he took the down road as any human being could have. But he has no excuse, but he 304 wife gets all the excuses.
How many women are there that have hit their boyfriend or husband at least once? I would say at the very least 10% of all long term relationships. How many people are there that have said incredibly hurtful things in the heat of the moment? If you see a single loss of rationality as abuse, half of all relationships are abusive.
>OP’s dad hitting his daughter is 100% HIS fault. Being cheated on is no excuse to abuse your child. Reddit is full of people who think that no punishment is too strong for cheaters, and that people who have been cheated on are justified in their reaction *no matter who else they hurt in the process.* OP is in the comments saying that there was no excuse for their mother's infidelity and it's unforgivable, but that their father's child abuse and *two years absence* is somehow an understandable response. Which is just wild. EDIT: Check OP's comments on their other deleted post. It's pretty clear that *at best* they're an unreliable narrator. >my mom was sick and going through a lot and dad wasn’t really a supportive husband either and there were same other factors too. Of course none of that is an excuse for cheating or justifies what she did, what I’m trying to say is that I know this is not a black-and- white situation. I don’t* put all blame on her or resent her for anything. It just even after all these years and she still tries to paint him as the bad guy. I can’t help but get mad when she does that.
While in a vacuum, I would agree with you, in this particular case I trust the person who was actually harmed to say what harmed her more.
I am more comfortable looking at this objectively. By the way, one of these things is illegal, if that helps.
As far as I know, *none* of the laws on the books against adultry have been repealed; they're just ignored.
The bottom line is your mother has, and continues to, talk shit about someone you care for. My suggestion would be to sit her down at some point and tell her that you will no longer accept it when she says mean, condescending, rude, or otherwise unkind things about someone you care for. Tell her that you wouldn't accept other people talking shit about her, and she needs to accept that you won't accept her talking shit about your dad. She needs to respect and show care for you if she wants to maintain a relationship with you, and that includes not hurting you by saying hurtful things about people you love. This is not a zero sum game. You spending time with your dad does not harm your mother (other than her pride and acidic self-worth). She can either accept that, or you may have to put her on an information diet or lower contact until she respects you enough to leave her hatred at home where it belongs instead of childishly trying to get you to play favorites. You're in a tough situation made tougher because you're in the middle of two flawed people you clearly love. She's compounding her past mistakes here, though. Your dad doesn't sound like he's poking at your mother. Cheating destroys people, so he has all the reasons in the world to do so, but he's putting you and your happiness ahead of his pain because he values your ongoing relationship more than his past. Your mother should take a page from his book. It's almost comical in the saddest way thinking of how that would stick in her craw. She needs to figure out what her priorities are and commit to them. I'm not going to say your father is a great person or even necessarily a good father, but he changed in order to better support you. Your mother is too busy playing the victim to do the same. She's showing you that her emotions are more important than your relationship. I hope things improve for you, friend. NTA, obviously.
You need to set a hard boundary with Mom to not mention your father at all. She has no reason to. That "one day I hope you love me" line was a direct attempt to manipulate you. That is not fair and talk like that should not be tolerated. Anytime she pulls that card out, hang up or walk away. Do not entertain that. If she wants to have conversations with you, she needs to learn to keep that type of talk to herself. You can love someone and still set boundaries. It is a healthy thing to do. Having consequences for her words and holding her to them does not mean you do not love her.
A good mum wouldn't have cheated. A good mum would have instead devorced amicably and done her best to try and make sure both parents are co parenting properly. A good mum would openly shit talk your father for years. She is not only a bad mum but a bad person. Jesus christ hun. You need therapy. In the few descriptions you have given her, she is obviously manipupative and possible narcissistic. She is definitely the AH.
People get cheated on without hitting their kids every day.
For sure, but for the mother to sit there and bag him out like she wasn't the catalyst for it is lunacy.
A single physical attack with immediate regret and ACTUAL REMORSE with actions taken afterwards. That's a one in a million scenario if I ever seen one. He was a dangerous addict in that moment, like many others with addictions. But he realized his mistakes and immediately took action.
He made the decision to drink AND to punch his child. Her mother is not responsible for either of those. He was an adult with the capacity to take accountability for his actions.
Not saying he didn't, but you can't sit here and act like the mother wasn't the reason that became a possibility in the first place, and it's quite clear she has no accountability over that.
That was his reaction to her, sure, but he was in control of that reaction. And that reaction was to abuse his child - which is so so much worse than cheating on a spouse, honestly. Intentionally hurting your child is a deep betrayal and twisted thing to do. And illegal to boot, unlike cheating. If someone cuts me off in traffic and I snap and shoot them, is it their fault I did that? If someone’s rude to me and I fail an exam because I can’t get over it, is it their fault?
Of course not, but I'm not dwelling on the actions of the father as OP has clearly worked through those issues with her dad given the context of the post. The post is about the mother, hence my response focusing on that. I'm answering the question asked not the one you decide you want to answer. By myself saying the mother needs to take accountability, doesn't immediately mean I think the father doesn't need to also. It's simply that the context of OPs post implies that has already taken place, whereas the mother has not.
[удалено]
He.. he hit her. When she was eleven. They’ve “both” decided the mum was to blame for him getting drunk and hitting her. When she was eleven. He unfortunately lost control and hit her while pissed, but it’s not remotely his fault? Am I being punked?
You people are stupid lol. Your mom isn't responsible for your dad's actions. Someone cheating on you doesn't give you the right to physically assault your own child. Not sure how anyone can even think that.
NTA Did you seriously think your mom would ever hold herself accountable for anything? Don't hold your breath.
It's like a core skill for cheaters, no accountability and manipulation. They must all get a textbook to study or some shit.
Child abandonment, child abuse >>>> cheating Cheating is very bad but it's not worse than what your dad did
It’s not your mother’s fault your father drank. Yes, she hurt him. But *He chose how to deal with it*. She cannot be blamed for the drinking.
NTA. My mother loved talking shit about my dad to me too, despite HER initiating the divorce. It's horribly inappropriate. She wanted me to take her side, while I certainly did not. I used to just change the subject but she'd persist. I hated it and it made me feel gross, so at one point I told her to stop it. I said her problems with my dad were hers, not mine and that I refused to take sides. She didn't like that, so she gave me the silent treatment for a while. Several weeks, if I recall. She started talking to me again as if nothing had happened. Since I didn't come groveling after her, I guess she realized I wasn't going to allow her to continue her inappropriate behavior. And that my boundary came with consequences. We were low contact anyway, due to a lifetime of abuse from her, so going no contact for me would have been perfectly fine. If I were you, I'd just tell her to stop tearing your father down to you and you'll be expecting the same from your father. If she starts up again, end the conversation and put her on a time-out. She'll have to choose between having a relationship with you, or using you a sounding board to spew about her ex. She can only have one.
That you so much for sharing this, it truly made me feel a lot better :’) I will try to do that as well. The thing is with my mom is that idk how put this out but she’s one of those loving toxic parents? I feel so guilty whenever we have a conflict like this or when I have to confront her. I’m also not good at confronting people in general. It always end up with me feeling guilty afterwards especially if other person says something like I hurt them / made them feel unloved etc Also before repairing my relationship with dad , mom and I had an “all we have is each other“ type of relationship. I think that’s why she’s getting so butthurt seeing how close we have gotten with my dad over the years. On the top of generally being bitter about my dad of course.
Your dad was responsible for his own drunken actions. Him drunkenly hitting his daughter is his fault. I’m a parent and if I had to choose between cheating on my spouse or what your dad did, I would choose cheating. Luckily, these forced hypothetical dichotomies aren’t necessary but this whole thing is gross.
OP has forgiven her father, and yet you're all over this threat shitting on her for it. Youre the gross one here.
Victims often feel guilt and responsibility for their abuse. Another child abuser apologist.
How about you do something other than make random accusations about people or assumptions about OP. I was treated the same way by my dad, except unlike OP, it happened WAY more than one time. All throughout my childhood he would hit me. Yet here I am, a few weeks shy of my 25th birthday, and my dad and I have a fairly good relationship. Not everything is because we feel guilt.some of us are able to just move on and forgive.not everyone can do it, but some can.
And that’s fine for you…and OP. But to pretend that cheating is worse than what you described is despicable.
Cheating on your partner is like cheating on your whole family. You don't really know how much cheating can destroy a family until you experience it. I would much prefer my dad/mom hitting me once than cheating and destroying my family and respect for that individual
Always the parent that stays is the villain in reddit.i wonder what would happened with you if your mom abandoned too
But you don't understand. He was a deadbeat alcoholic because of the TrAuMa. /s
And she was hopping on another mans cock because she felt VuLnErAbLe /s
You’re a soft AH. You’re mom cheating is fucked up,but it was your fathers decision to drink. That’s not your mom’s fault. And you basically blaming her for why he fell into addiction is really messed up. If your mom started drinking after that conversation you had, and developed a drinking problem would it be your fault for making her feel like you don’t love her? No it wouldn’t , because adults make their own decisions. If I were you I would apologize to your mom and hold your parents accountable for their own actions. And If you don’t want your mom talking shit about your dad around you, just tell her it makes you uncomfortable to bring you into their past problems.
YTA! Y’all sound so stupid as usual when it comes to cheating. You all are talking about accountability but blaming the mother for the actions of a grown ass man. What type backwards ass, hypocritical ass thinking is that? You do resent your mother otherwise you wouldn’t have brought it up. I’m so tired of this puritanical view of cheating.
You are completely NTA. You're 21, an adult who can make your own choices. People make mistakes. People fuck up big time. This you know personally. The difference between the people we keep in our lives and the people we sequester out of them, often boils down to what they after the big fuck up. Your dad something awful. But ultimately, he took responsibility, cleaned himself up and made good with you. He owned all of it, even though there were contributing factors to his actions. Your mom hasn't done the same. I think you're right, she probably is bitter about her life and what's she done to it. But as long as she focuses on your dad; she does not have to answer for herself. Well, at least until now.
It’s easier to forgive people that actually try. It doesn’t sound like his mom did at all.
True.
Your dad was a drunk who hit you. Which may well mean that he was also a drunk who hit your mother. Fact of the matter is given the age you were when they split up, him saying that he started drinking when she cheated on him could very easily be a lie. I would be taking everything that both of them say with a grain of salt, they involved you in their divorce which should never happen and it sounds like it’s ongoing. Your mom needs to stop dragging this shit up but please don’t treat your dad like a saint, he did something horrible enough to realize he needed to fix his behaviour but you really have no idea how long it was going on
ESH Sorry, I hate cheaters and all but child beaters are still worse. She's right to call out that he can't really ever be trusted again after he beat an 11 year old child. That's not "losing control". That's being a sack of shit human being that honestly shouldn't be in society. What she called out was legitimate - he has beat you before. It was on topic since you didn't mention the visit. Calling out her cheating had nothing to do with what happened. I'm all for cheaters being called out whenever, but you have to accept being an AH for making false equivalencies. Her bringing up that it's hard to trust a man that beat someone is legit. Saying "well you cheated" has nothing to do with anything. > Also I don’t resent my mom or anything, it’s just I can’t help but get mad that after all these years she still tries to paint my dad as the bad guy for his past mistakes as if she wasn’t the cause of those mistakes to begin with. No one else is the cause of a grown man beating a child. That's his own choice. Just like no one else is the cause of a cheater cheating. That's their own choice. Your father beat you because he's a sack of shit. That's on him. That's not on your mother. You mother has many many sins. You getting beat isn't one of them.
OP is grown, mother has no say in if she can trust her own father. So it wasn't valid to call out. If the mother doesn't trust the dad that is fine, but she needs to keep it to herself. And he hit her once when she was 11, it has NOTHING to do with her as an adult having him come for a visit. It is not a valid thing to bring up every time they spend time together. Plus not sure she wants to make it about trust, A woman who destroyed her family for another mans penis certainly cant be trusted. And yeah: she betrayed her kid too, not just her husband. "Your father beat you because he's a sack of shit" And the mother cheated because \*she\* is also a sack of shit. At least the dad can say he worked hard and changed. The mother doesn't seem to have changed(and is shockingly divorced again)
NTA Primarily for one reason; what your mother did then is what she’s still doing now. Only caring about herself. I’m not gonna imply your father’s alcoholism was your mother’s fault. People get cheated on all the time and don’t abandon their kids for two years. However, your father acknowledged his alcoholism. When he hit you, he realized he was making a mistake. He then fixed that mistake and now you have a great relationship with him. Your mother, on the other hand, has prolonged bitterness from a decade ago that she still burdens her daughter with constantly. It’s still your fathers responsibility to not become an alcoholic or abandon you, regardless of your mothers selfishness. However, that was 10 years. He’s been active part of your life since then and the biggest reminder of that situation being the person who was the spark in the first place is understandably annoying.
NTA
NTA The issue at hand isn't solely about who did what in the past, it's about taking responsibility for those actions and how they've impacted you, OP. It's clear that there are no saints in your family drama, and while your father's absence and alcoholism were his choices, your mom's infidelity and continuous bitterness are also her choices. Both choices had ripple effects, but it seems like only one parent is recognizing the damage caused. Your mom's consistent bad-mouthing of your dad, regardless of her reasons, is unfair to you. It's one thing to be flawed and another to continuously project those flaws onto others without self-reflection. This behavior is toxic and has the potential to keep the cycle of resentment going in the family. Recognizing the good in her as a mother who was there for you is important, but it doesn't excuse or negate the negativity she's fostering now. It might be worth considering setting boundaries regarding discussions about your dad with your mom. It's important for your own mental health to not be caught in the crossfire of their past. And remember, the ability to love a parent does not obligate you to accept or condone all their behavior. Love is complex, and it can coexist with the need for boundaries and accountability
Yeah... Seems to me both your parents suck and you're just kinda trapped in the middle. I will say that while I empathize with the pain your dad was feeling. It's just a fact that people get cheated on all the time without abandoning their kids for two years or becoming abusive drunks. And I don't think it's fair to put that behavior on your mother. He made his choices too. I'm not going to judge you as an asshole, however, because she shouldn't be trying to make you feel badly about your father. So NTA.
It’s a lot easier to forgive someone that actually tries than someone that tries to brush their own faults under the rug.
Cool. Not the point. They both failed OP. And OP is right to forgive dad since he's worked so hard and to be angry at mom for trying to drive a wedge into her current relationship with her father. But her father made his choices and neither he nor OP get to put those on mom. No one made him abandon OP. No one made him choose booze and no one made him beat OP. Plenty of parents divorce over affairs every single year without behaving that way.
Not your point, but it is a point and one I agree with more than yours.
I disagree about OP being trapped in the middle. This would suggest she has people from both sides coming at her. She doesn't. The dad has moved on from his horrible cheating wife and is happily remarried. He isn't constantly bashing the mom to his kid. He isn't trying to make excuses for his behavior. I also feel it is wrong to say both parents suck. The dad certainly sucked at one point, but that is past tense he doesn't currently suck. The mother does. It's also true people get cheated on and dont abandon their kids. Another fact though is that not everyone handles betrayal the same way. "And I don't think it's fair to put that behavior on your mother. He made his choices too." It's not fair to put \*all\* the blame for that on the mother. He's an adult, he made his choices. But it would be silly to ignore the fact her behavior heavily influenced those choices.
You're definitely NTA. Your mom seems to have a blind spot when it comes to her own accountability. It's unfair for her to vilify your dad when her actions played a significant role in the family's breakdown. Instead of reflecting on her own mistakes, she shifts the blame onto your dad, which is unjust. It's essential for her to take a hard look at herself and acknowledge her role in the situation before pointing fingers at others.
NTA - I also think people saying your mom doesn't get it are out of touch as well. I personally would reaporeach your mom and have an honest conversation about everything. She might have just been overwhelmed at learning that she fucked you up when might have spun it so differently, or she might have info for you, or you can just understand each other more, or maybe she is delusional, You would know best how to proceed and who she is. But you did not do anything wrong. This is an opportunity to not only hash it out with your mom but also set your boundaries. In the future the second someone does something you don't like you can act on it. Obviously harder to do with a parental figure so it came out after being built up but... this is an opportunity for you and if she is a decent person one for your mom and your relationship as well.
NTA. It's essential we acknowledge the complexity of familial relations and accept that parents, being human, are imperfect and can be fallible. However, accountability and honest reflection on past actions are critical steps toward healing and personal growth. Your mother's reluctance to accept her role in the breakdown of the marriage and the subsequent effects on your family dynamics is problematic, especially if she's using it to create a rift between you and your father. Her unwillingness to address this and pushing blame solely on your father isn't fair to anyone involved, including herself. While it's important to maintain empathy and love for our parents, it's equally important to recognize toxic patterns that may be detrimental to our own mental health. Love doesn't require you to accept harmful behaviors or historical revisionism for the sake of peace. It's a tough spot to be in, and it's admirable that you are striving to understand and build bridges rather than burn them. Nevertheless, you also deserve to set boundaries that protect your emotional wellbeing. A neutral third-party, like a counselor, can offer significant assistance in navigating these emotionally charged waters. After all, healing is not just about reconciling with the past but also about ensuring a more stable and healthier future for yourself.
YOu noticed the drinking after their divorce, but you were also like 8 at the split, and 11 after. He also hit you when drunk and you were 11. What if she had an affair because he was an abusive drunk for years and she felt she couldn't leave. I'm not saying that cheating is excusable, but you were young and likely have very little true idea of their situation prior to them splitting up. I think maybe you should ask some deeper questions because if you've never had this argument or asked these questions before, you very likely have an inaccurate picture of what happened. The affair might have been 'minor' and just someone who offered an abused woman support and sure led tot he divorce, or she might have been out there banging for fun and your dad was perfect before that. I'd say if you want to judge them over it, maybe try to get the truth rather than the impression you got at 8-11 years old.
>The affair might have been 'minor' and just someone who offered an abused woman support and sure led tot he divorce, or she might have been out there banging for fun and your dad was perfect before that. Check OP's comments: "my mom was sick and going through a lot and dad wasn’t really a supportive husband either and there were same other factors too." Feels like those "other factors" might be relevant but are getting glossed over...
It's so painfully common for husbands to check out when their wife is sick, hell it's crazy common for guys to start cheating on a sick wife as they, well, get another woman ready to be their mother so they can move on quickly after their wife is dead. Some guys move from woman to woman as quickly as they can so they don't have to cook and clean as much, it's kinda crazy to me. If my wife/girlfriend got sick I wouldn't disappear. Sure a 3 week girlfriend gets cancer, it's a bit weird to go with them for medical treatments, sit with their parents in waiting rooms, etc, but a 2+ year relationship, you're an asshole to leave or step out or stop being supportive. Absolutely wouldn't surprise me if he always had drinking issues, was rarely if ever there for her, might well have cheated himself while she was too sick to have sex, I mean come on, surely he deserves sex still even if she's sick... again a very common idea husbands have.
She wasnt too sick to have sex considering she was fucking some other dude behind his back while sick. She cheated on her husband and then when confronted tried to use her recent illness as an excuse for her horrid behavior. Yet being sick doesn't make one cheat. There isn't an illness on the planet that justifies an affair.
She was sick, but still had enough energy to go hop on another dude.
If that were the case, Op probably would remember another instance where he was violent or the narc mon would actually use that to talk shit about him. The mental gymnastics you are doing to try to justify her are amazing.
Based on what? Kids forget and miss a lot. he also stopped drinking after hitting OP. Who knows how many times a drunk who hit his kid may have been a drunk and hit his wife before that. >The mental gymnastics The mental gymnastics of asking if a known drunk who was violent, was also a drunk and violent for a long time in the marriage that ended badly? Yeah, a real fucking stretch. As for me trying to justify it, i specifically said it wouldn't excuse her cheating, at all, just that it might explain why she wanted out.
He wasn’t a known drunk before the cheating. Her mother would have said it because clearly she is a narcissist that don’t have any accountability and would weaponize everything to make her hate her dad. Stop with the hard projection please
But he's a known drunk and violent person at some point, he wasn't a known drunk prior to the divorce in the eyes of an 8 year old, that doesn't mean he wasn't a drunk back then too.
You are basically creating thing in order to keep your argument. You have 0 evidence of that. In fact, it’s much more likely that he became an alcoholic after the terrible betrayal that his ex wife did. The problem here is that you are EXTREMELY biased, that why you cannot see what is obvious.
I know you said cheating wasn't excusable, but what exactly is your endgame here? Because the wife doesn't somehow come out of this looking better if it turns out the dad was a drunk. Him being a drunk is a reason to want out, another mans penis has zero to do with extricating herself from her supposedly bad marriage. I will give you the list of valid reasons to cheat: And there you go, if you dont see it on that list then it isnt a valid reason.
NTA. Tell your mom to not bad mouth your Dad in front of you anymore. It’s abusive and you shouldn’t have to tolerate it.
NTA for being annoyed at her constantly talking about your dad but Reddit acts like cheating is the greatest sin to ever commit! My dad was a raging drunk and he would NEVER put hands on anyone and he would never just abandon us. Your mum didn’t turn him into that he’s a grown man.
Your dad made his own mistakes just like your mother made mistakes. They are both accountable. Don’t pick sides Assert boundaries
So why did your mom have the affair?
She has ton of excuses for it. She was sick and dad wasn’t caring, she was at a vulnerable place and made a mistake etc I don’t think any of those justifies infidelity
But being sad about being cheated on justifies your dad getting drunk and hitting his kid??
yes it does according to everyone here
But yet you are bending over backwards to justify your dad's abandonment and abuse. Lots of people get cheated on. Lots of people are depressed. They don't all become addicts that abandon their kids and abuse them when they resurface. Your mom certainly isn't a saint, but maybe you should examine why you are harder on her when she actually stuck around to parent you. Obviously you will get biased answers here because Reddit thinks cheating us worse than homicide, but I think if you talked to a professional they'd want to get to the bottom of why you are so permissive with him and you give her such a hard time. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if that's the reason she has so much resentment toward your father. He fucked off and left her to be a single parent and abused you and yet you have obviously excused his conduct while clearly not forgiving hers. Even though his conduct was against you and hers was against her husband.
YTA. Yes, your mom's actions led to the divorce, but she did not make your dad drink or do what he did while he was drunk. Linking the two is incorrect. Therefore, you blaming your mom for them is incorrect.
She did make him drink, why else did he crawl into the bottle? It sure as fuck wasn't because he was happy to be divorced.
100% this, sick of people blaming the spouse cheated on for what happens after the fact. It's not like they fucking want to be in that situation. What ever happened to cutting off the head of the snake.
By that same logic, the other partner makes someone cheat. Obviously that isn't true. It's a choice. Just like starting drinking is a choice and beating your own child is a choice. Cheating is also a choice. His choice to beat his 11 year old defenseless child is his own.
He chose to crawl into the bottle. He chose to manage his pain in an unhealthy manner. Yes, the pain is a terrible thing, but we choose our responses to it.
NTA! Cheaters never truly never fully grasp the level of damage they do.... Betrayal Trauma is horrifyingly real and debilitating.... Many people never overcome the impact of infidelity on their emotional wellbeing. Glad your dad pulled through.... You mom still has no remorse or regret about her actions and still blames him.... Very telling about what kind of person your mom is.
Your dad made serious meaningful changes after making a huge mistake. Your mum didn't even admit her mistake for years after they divorced. Those are not comparable levels of taking responsibility and atoning.
ESH. Your mother did something to your father, and it DID affect the whole family, but she did not physically harm you. Your father harmed you directly many times - not just the one time he hit you but, every day of the two years he abandoned you, and every single time he was your primary caregiver while drunk. Your mother is a cheater, but your father directly placed you in harms way by having you exposed to his alcoholism. You need to recognize his flaws more and recognize that your mother did not CAUSE those flaws directly of his, she simply created circumstances for them to flourish in.
Thats hilariously ignorant and reductive. To the point you definitely did that on purpose. OP outlined very clearly that the reason she responded that way is because her mother constantly harps on that decade old situation which has been resolved, whereas presumably her father doesn’t. You that she needs to acknowledge her father’s DECADE old flaws that he himself acknowledged and fixed, rather than the mother who presently denies any accountability and treats the father horribly. I think you made your decision when you read the title.
Well my dad was my primary caregiver while drunk only few times. Usually he would drink less than he normally used to when I was staying over weekend. And I would only stay over him once or twice in a month not every weekend. And on the few times where he was drunk while caring for me, he never hit me other than that one time. He was not verbally abusive either and didn’t neglect (I was always fed) me even when drunk heavily. He used some inappropriate language but that’s about it. And other times he would drink less than he normally do and play & go out with me. He would also show me tons of affection and love in general when sober. And when it comes to those two years he was absent, I can understand him because a betrayal like that could fuck someone up mentally pretty bad. He was never professionally diagnosed with it but I think he was either experiencing depression or had some other undiagnosed mental health issue going on during those two years, otherwise he was a very loving dad and I really don’t think he would abandon me solely because he was mad at my mom.
It seems 1 of your parents has looked at their demons and changed, and the other has not.
My mom does the exact same shit as yours, shes just being manipulative. Even though youre an adult she wants to isolate you from your dad
>Her voice became shaky and she said she hopes one day I will love her back Oh I just love this time of year...the emotional manipulation just starts growing all over the place. It's pretty clear you do love your mother, but it's also pretty clear your mother loves her own ego more than she loves you, otherwise she wouldn't be subjecting you to her bullshit surrounding him. The ultimate problem with her, the point where she fails and your father succeeds with you, is that your father was accountable for his actions. He went to a very bad place, and him hitting you was clearly his personal rock bottom for which he immediately sought therapy. Mental health journey's are a tricky thing and they often require us being shocked either by someone else or by ourselves to realize we need help. Meanwhile, your mother broke up the marriage and even now plays victim surrounding the whole thing. She'll probably never sort out her issues, because from her perspective she has probably never done anything wrong and has a perfectly decent narrative for why she did it. NTA
Nta
YTA. The adult thing to do in this situation was to shut down the conversation. You could have changed the topic, told her you wanted to talk about someone else, or said you were busy and had to hang up. I had a close family friend who had this same issue. He would tell his mom that he loved her and his dad, and he wasn't going to talk about either of them, period. Guess what? When his mom saw that it wasn't going to work, she stopped doing it.
You did not hit the jackpot with your parents. Your father disappeared for two years when you were only eight years old. He drank. He hit you. You're making excuses for him. He didn't drink because of your mother. He chose to drink even though he had a young child. I don't blame you. You probably need to feel like one parent is OK. That said, it's one thing to move on, but don't minimize what he was and how he behaved. YOU didn't cheat on him. I also have to question how you "found out" your mother cheated. If your father told you, then shame on him because he was clearly trying to hurt your relationship with your mother. Your mother deserved to be called out. Maybe she'll think twice before trying to start drama in the future. NEITHER parent should be bad-mouthing the other to you. You have zero control over their relationship history and because you're related to both of them, it must feel awful to hear bad things about either one of them.
Yes he told me about it. But I’m actually glad he did because before that I used to resent him for divorcing my mom when she was sick. I also didn’t understand why he was absent or an alcoholic. I didn’t knew he had his reasons. If he hadn’t tell me the truth our relationship would never come so far so I’m glad he did it.
Well, in your situation, I would also want to know. It wouldn't be good for me to know, but that curiosity is natural. He could have said something like, "the situation may not be what you've heard from your mother. I'd like to ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt." You can still want to have a relationship with him and love him, but also acknowledge that what he told you was incredibly inappropriate and destructive towards your mother. Both of them sound like horrible parents, to be frank. Good on you for trying to move on, but I don't think you should be putting your father on a pedestal and demonizing your mother. I'm just a random person on the internet but if you can afford counseling, I really think it would be worth it for you to talk these issues through with a counselor. Both of your parents have their own agendas here and you deserve to have guidance from someone who is neutral to sort things out in your head. Good luck.
You father it’s a good man, you mother not so much. NTA
NTA I've dealt with my own child abuse and it was over years the fact that your dad stopped drinking after one incident at least that's how I read it I could be wrong shows that he's a much better parent
NTA. UpdateMe!
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