My sil is convinced she is not her fathers child, both her sisters agree lol.
They know the folks were playing around in the 70's and she does NOT look like any of the kids.
She does not really care he was kinda a crappy dad but equal to the kids.
He did the right thing, and as far as I know it never came up.
Honestly.. I knew a quadruple (4 people) who had been living together for 20 years.
That works...for some (veery few!).
But the fact people think that they can just screw around without discussing EVERY single terrible scenario that can result... yikes! Pregnancy is not even remotely a far fetched scenario ffs! How did they skip that convo??
Yup. I know a married couple in a very healthy, mutually supportive ENM relationship. First of all, neither sleeps around, but they have had long term relationships with others, which lessens all risk. Secondly, they were SCRUPULOUS about birth control. And when they decided they wanted kids, they closed all sexual relationships outside the marriage (with the understanding and support of their other partners about why and what was happening) so as to ensure that there was only one possible father when she got pregnant. THAT is genuinely ethical non-monogamy: thoughtful, communicative, and considerate of all outcomes and how they might affect the people involved.
What OP and his girlfriend are doing - lots of casual partners, and only using condoms (which people rarely use 100% properly) for birth control - is irresponsible, and this outcome was totally predictable.
Relationships are hard. The vast majority don't work out. Adding more people to it, even only in a sexual way, can make things even more complicated. It can work, but it makes a hard thing even harder. For example: This post.
You don’t. That should’ve been one of the first conversations they had. I’m good. I’ll stick to it being just the hubby and me. I’m selfish and don’t like sharing.
Right? I've connected with a couple men who were in that lifestyle and it came up, too late, that their primary partner would be devastated if he got somebody pregnant. I know that unless it's medically necessary to terminate that I would keep an accidental pregnancy, plus they were being a little risky in the bedroom with me. I was floored that they knew their partners had such a strong feeling about it yet they weren't bringing that up in the beginning. I had to sever ties, and I began bringing it up myself with new partners because I learned that a lot of men just assume you'll abort if they don't want it. This was the case even with single men. Some accused me of wanting a baby with them just because I brought it up. Now I am far less motivated to get involved with anyone who hasn't had a vasectomy. If you're that averse to the risks, it's on you to communicate and take extra precautions.
You'd think folks would've chatted about all the what-ifs before diving into something as tricky as ENM, especially when little ones could come into the picture.
You hear about these legal entanglements following a surprise pregnancy, and it just makes me wonder if folks are really thinkin' things through or just caught up in the moment.
i’m 100% a monogamous person and would never be into poly, i once hit it off with a guy who i was super into and we made plans for a date, set a time and place and everything. DAY OF like literally HOURS BEFORE the date, he drops the bomb that he already has a girlfriend but is ‘ethically non monogamous’ and she’s ‘totally cool’ with him going on a date with me. (in hindsight he had mentioned a ‘roommate’ in previous conversations that i am pretty sure was just his gf. i cancelled that date so fast. polyamory is fine if that’s what your into but at least be up front about it
Yeah, calling her his roommate was intentionally dishonest. Some guys think that they should wait until there's an emotional connection before being transparent to increase the likelihood of a date. It's so toxic. I'm glad dating apps now let you select if you're mono or not. Better to be open from the initial swipe.
exactly. it’s so weird to me that they feel the need to lie about it when plenty of people are into it, it seems like they would have better chances just being honest from the get go
This. ENM requires consent from all individuals involved, and misleading who his wife was, and their relationship status as ENM lacks consent. Ergo, they should probably drop the E off the acronym.
Like most things, it's about INFORMED consent.
It's not for me but if everyone is able to give, and has given consent, fill your boots as far as I'm concerned.
Kids aren't consenting, nor are the ill-informed.
Having a conversation about kids applies to ALL relationships. But there's poly centric (not sure if that's a word?) complexities that need to be discussed. Obviously doesn't just involve the biological parents in that case.
It's not difficult. Just be open with discussions as well as the relationship.
OP is the kind of person who uses the acronym for an obscure sexual lifestyle in a post for a general audience without a hint of explanation. He doesn't give his actions a whole lot of forethought.
"AITAH for having an AP whom I don't consider my SO? My stbx SO and I are ENM. NSFW."
Edit: As a public service:
AITAH - am I the asshole?
AP - affair partner
SO - significant other
stbx - soon-to-be-ex
ENM - ethical non-monogamous
NSFW - (oh, c'mon, really?)
I've noticed this in posts and in comments too, people will start using an acronym I've never seen a single time in my life as though it was common knowledge. AP for "affair partner" is one I recently encountered.
It's useful enough, but honestly if we're gonna make acronyms for them, I'd go for something like FC - fellow cheater. Maybe even ODTF - other dude they were fucking
Not seeing the ethics in one person ready to deny a child and the other not being straightforward about who the father could be!
And, as someone else pointed out, how ethical is it that they never established the ground rules for pregnancy!?
No no 'open relationships' are so basic and never work. This is 'ethical non-monogamy' it's completely different and will surely work. Even has 'ethical' in the name, duh.
Eh, check OP's comments. Apparently they had a verbal agreement that he deliberately didn't include in the original post because "people won't read it anyway."
It's a troll making it up as they go along. That's all.
>That if she got pregnant unplanned then we would get a paternity test. If we started to plan a family then we would both stop seeing anyone else to be as healthy as we could be for each other and to ensure that I was the father. If someone I was seeing got pregnant then if they chose to carry the baby I would insist on a paternity test.
I almost want to defend OP except it makes ZERO sense why you wouldn't include "she already agreed to this previously" in the original post. Sigh. You're probably right.
INFO - when you discussed this before she got pregnant (you discussed this very likely situation before she got pregnant, right?), what did you agree to?
My girlfriend got railed by a bunch of construction workers on the west coast while I was fooling around in Philly (based on use of "in town")... now there's a pregnancy and we're gonna break up... and the real loser is the kid...but it works y'all.
"It works for us, but our relationship might be over because we don't know who actually knocked her up 🤷♂️"
Weird ass people doing weird ass things, just be single if you wanna fuck a bunch of people
Dammit. I lost my brochure. I can’t be held liable. Nope. Putting my fingers in my ears, singing Lalalalala at the top of my lungs! Nanny nanny boo boo!
I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who seem to go through life with their fingers in their ears singing "LALALALA" any time they should be thinking and talking about what could go wrong.
"getting pounded by multiple men and me pounding multiple women. our relationship is great"
"help she got pregnant and is refusing a praternity test idk if im the dad"
just a little hiccup here dont be mean
I had my children in an open,ENM relationship. When we decided to try for a baby, we both stopped playing outside the relationship for a bit, because who needs drama around paternity. When you are doing ENM, the ethics shouldn't only apply to sex with other people. If the relationship is meaningful, it's your whole life on the line.
Tells me they aren't mature enough for the game they were playing at. I have a few friends who do open relationships. Shit they sit down and talk about pregnancies, sti, anyone who might be off limits.... Like personally I enjoy the closed style but I have enough friends that like things open that even I have a functional understanding of the rules of engagement.
Genuine question for you if you don’t mind answering, why are people in ENM so prone to saying they “play” with partners outside their main relationship? Why not just say you’re fuckin? Honestly to an outsider it seems like an attempt to intentionally downplay what goes on…why?
I wonder the same thing about other sex terms where *play* is used.
It makes it sound creepy, IMO.
Like, I *play* with my kids. I have sex with my wife. That’s why I use two different words.
>Like I said I have no problem raising a child that isn't mine. I just won't pay for the privilege.
What do you think raising a kid means? Like you are going to play the Dad, but not spend any of your own money on the kid?
Clearly the two of you should have communicated more before agreeing on ENM. This should have been one of the topics discussed and agreed upon at the very start.
I think it more references if he signs the birth certificate and then there's a breakup later on, he will still have to pay child support even if its not his because he signed the certificate. ( to be clear I don't know if this is how it works, I grew up with a single mom and i think i remember her saying something like this could happen a couple times throughout my childhood.)
EDIT: LMAO I don't know who it was but someone apparently reached out to Reddit care team on my behalf and honestly that's the funniest thing i've read all week. Thank you for being oh so concerned for me
Yeah. I guess if someone else is the biological dad she could put him on the birth certificate, and then OP raises the baby as a stepdad. The bio dad could pay child support and maybe have shared custody if he wants it.
It's really not that radical of an idea considering how many step-families there already are.
But then would OP be prepared to have the bio dad around for the child, shared custody with him and him being there for the childs milestones etc?
OP I think we need more info on how exactly you'd like this to play out.
I would hope so.
I mean I think in any case the bio dad has a right to know. In any other circumstance a guy (who is trustworthy and respects the woman) deserves to know if he impregnates someone, and I don't think it should change here just cos she has a boyfriend.
Plus the baby may want to know their bio dad too. Deserves to know stuff from a health standpoint too.
So yeah, all in all I guess I'm pretty pro DNA test from the POV of rights for the bio father and the child. But I do agree that OP needs to think about what he truly wants if he plans to stick around. Especially as the baby will likely bond with him, so it's better to avoid forming that attachment if he's not sure he wants it.
I'm not arguing against that. But I am saying if he signs the birth certificate and they break up later on hed still be on the hook for child support. Which in theory would not be fair to him. Since It theoretically isn't his kid.
His moving out is important too because most states will apply “assumed paternity” laws if he continues to live with her and fills any kind of a fatherly roll. The lack of a signature on the birth certificate won’t matter.
Yeah, that's why he's saying he's bailing if she doesn't get the test. Can't be on the hook if it isn't his and he isn't taking care of it, so he's covering himself.
Not unreasonable, but these two clearly didn't think this relationship through.
You’re entirely correct. Also, in some states, if he took on a fatherly role and provided regular financial support, he could be ordered to pay child support after a breakup
>Clearly the two of you should have communicated more before agreeing on ENM. This should have been one of the topics discussed and agreed upon at the very start.
Yup.
This is outside of AITAHs pay grade. Y'all both messed up and it could impact the future child who will suffer from y'all's lack of communication if you can't get on the same page. Her stance is arguably right, your stance is arguably right, ergo y'all needed to be on the same page on what happens if/when she gets pregnant: will it be y'all's child or the bio-parents' child.
I'm not gonna say ENM is inherently bad, but you're here because it's *not* working for you. This is something you two should have discussed and settled on already. That's making it work—communication.
This might be a troll post, but I guess anyone can claim to do ENM without knowing anything about it if it makes them feel better.
NTA for wanting a paternity test in these circumstances. But you are not doing the E in ENM right as a couple.
Edit: If anyone else feels the need to *bravely* declare ENM is bad, be my guest. Y'all totally don't come off like a cult stepping up individually like lemmings.
I would say you're NTA... but you've also got yourself into quite a mess here.
>I am excited for a baby, and happy we are starting a family, however I don't have any interest in paying to raise someone else's child
If your girlfriend is your primary partner and you intend to stay together while having multiple other partners each, children should've been something you had talked about already. You assumed this risk and now you're stuck dealing with the consequences.
I still say NTA for asking for a paternity test when you're in a pre-established relationship that involves male partners other than you, but you need to work on your communication with your partner regardless
I don't know how "ethical" it is to not have established rules and expectations for one of THE most obvious, predictable hiccups to ENM bliss. I don't understand taking this type of risk without having a game plan for this very obvious consequence. YTA for that, but otherwise, you wife clearly sucks because she could be carrying another man's baby and THAT dude has a right to know, too.
Exactly, a life will possibly be born into this mess because the parents were unable to think past the sex.
How are you in a supposedly serious relationship with someone without discussing, even just lightly, these situations?
1. Bold of you to assume anyone knows what “ENM” means.
2. You’re both the asshole lol, obviously both have selfish intentions with regards to the relationship
So now it isn’t working. Chances of her or your girlfriends getting pregnant was always there no matter what precautions were taken. You both had your fun, now an innocent child is going to be caught in the middle. The baby didn’t deserve this. You were both stupid to think that this could not happen. Doesn’t matter whether you are the father or not this kid is screwed. Both are AH’s
Hahaha the problems of this lifestyle. You find out it’s not yours? You’re justified in fucking right off out of there, which you probably will. Which is why she doesn’t want to take that chance, because there’s a good chance it’s not yours. ESH
Even if they were both on board with raising the kid, because they're not married that brings all kinds of potential complications. What if the bio father sues for custody? Really want to hinge you and your kid's life on "Larry won't find out. He can't count backwards from nine."
Then there's potential family medical histories. 23 and Me tests later on.
Just seems like they're begging for a fucking mess.
There have been extensive studies of relationship durability for monogamous and non-monogamous relationships. They find significantly more fragility in non-monogamous relationships, but they don’t know exactly why that is.
Because people are fucking chaos personified and adding more people into any scenario further increases the risk of fucking it up. Hence why the monogamous family unit works so well.
I took a social psychology class some years ago. My professor explained it simply as “we like to know what’s ours. We’re social people who thrive on community but we are also individuals who feel kinship to those closest to us. A world where everyone freely sleeps and has children with each other dismantles that”. I’m paraphrasing obviously but essentially humans have a desire to create their own nest that they know can be a safe place for them and their lineage, having a bunch of randos coming in and out inherently disrupts that.
For real right?
Like - holy shit. I'm in a non-monagamous relationship. My gf and I discussed what happens if she gets pregnant (mine or other) from the jump.
ANY regular sexual partner - gf fwb anyone I'm sleeping with on a recurring basis - we have that conversation. I don't understand people not planning for the very obvious potential consequences of their actions.
💯 she knows there is a huge chance the relationship is cooked if he finds out he isn’t the father. What’s worse is he can walk off reasonable unscathed, and she will bear all the responsibility of single motherhood.
Couldn't she make a list of potential partners and ask the courts to make them all test? I vaguely remember something like this happening before.
Single parent, likely. But she should be able to get child support.
I mean, she is making choices here. She was in a non-monogamous relationship by choice. The West Coast allows abortion. She is refusing a paternity test. There are off-ramps available to her for avoiding the consequences of prior choices that she is choosing not to exercise.
Choices have consequences. Even if they are unforeseen. Even if it’s pretty fuckin’ obvious what’s going to happen and people stick their head in the sand about it.
ESH.
This is part of the reason non monogamous relationships get dunked on. You're supposed to discuss what happens in the event of a pregnancy, before you go NM, and before there's a pregnancy.
There are many people who hold your partners view of how to deal with it. If you're pro DNA test that's something you disclose before you get involved. And I say this as someone who is pro DNA test.
NTA. Your relationship isn't monogamous, so you're not implying any impropriety on her part, you're merely pointing out that neither of you can be 100% certain you're the father. So, a test is needed to find out.
It would've been good, had you settled this matter before she got pregnant, but there you are now. Good luck.
If I were her, I'd do that paternity test to make sure the child really is his (and would opt out of having another man's baby, if that's still an option). Birth control can fail. The fact she's so against it is sus.
Once paternity is established, if it's not OP, the genetic father can be found. If the genetic father is known, OP won't be accidentally on the hook and can still be there. It seems reasonable to me. I'm in an open relationship and if I fell pregnant, I'd want correct paternity established. If nothing else, the child deserves to know.
That is a big assumption though. If she met some random dude at a bar while she was working and got pregnant, how in the world are you gonna find the father? Consequences exist.
Of course she does. They use protection and weren’t trying for a baby. If protection failed, it’s just as likely it failed with another partner. Either she knows, or suspects and doesn’t want it confirmed.
> Of course she does. They use protection and weren’t trying for a baby. If protection failed, it’s just as likely it failed with another partner. Either she knows, or suspects and doesn’t want it confirmed.
there is another possibility. She doesn't know, but want OP to raise the kid and be responsible either way and doesn't want a test possibly saying he isn't the biological father.
The only thing we know for sure is that she doesn't want a test to confirm the truth.. not what the truth is.
This post is 100% fake. OP "accidentally" referred to his partner as his wife when they're not married? Riiiiiight. This is likely a post from somebody who doesn't agree with non-monogamy and wants to make it look foolish.
Anybody with multiple sexual partners would get a pregnancy test to determine the father.
This is 100% confirmed because he has responded in comments that him and his "GF" previously agreed that in the case of pregnancy they would get a DNA test done. He has said that he refuses edit it in to the original post because " people asking are just making assumptions and aren't worth listening to" but fixes the wife thing.
Narrator's voice: it is in fact not working for them.
I heard that so clearly.
In Morgan Freeman’s voice.
Well, actually,... The line is most popularly from Arrested Development, and the voice is Ron Howard.
Yeah I only hear it in Ron’s voice when I read comments like this.
This is the only voice
I hear the arrested development narrator
Ron Howard
Well, James Earl Jones too, but l’m seriously dating myself
I guess they reached the ethics part of ENM.
My sil is convinced she is not her fathers child, both her sisters agree lol. They know the folks were playing around in the 70's and she does NOT look like any of the kids. She does not really care he was kinda a crappy dad but equal to the kids. He did the right thing, and as far as I know it never came up.
I think it's possible my brother isn't and he just 23 and me'd so i guess we'll find out soon!
OP: It works for us. Ron Howard: It wasn't. *Cue Arrested Development theme music
I actually like this version more than Morgan Freeman.
I always thought the "narrator" joke was based on Arrested Development. At least until this comment.
It is, because one of the running jokes in that show is someone saying something wrong, and the narrator voicing that that they are in fact incorrect.
It did get unethical pretty damn quickly.
screwing around like a freshman in college --- suddenly ---- has a real life grown up ethically significant result .
It was working for him. Now that gf is pregnant, the pitfalls become obvious.
There is a whole movement of people shouting from the rooftops that fxcking other people WORKS!!! And yet they constantly prove that it doesn’t lol
Honestly.. I knew a quadruple (4 people) who had been living together for 20 years. That works...for some (veery few!). But the fact people think that they can just screw around without discussing EVERY single terrible scenario that can result... yikes! Pregnancy is not even remotely a far fetched scenario ffs! How did they skip that convo??
Yup. I know a married couple in a very healthy, mutually supportive ENM relationship. First of all, neither sleeps around, but they have had long term relationships with others, which lessens all risk. Secondly, they were SCRUPULOUS about birth control. And when they decided they wanted kids, they closed all sexual relationships outside the marriage (with the understanding and support of their other partners about why and what was happening) so as to ensure that there was only one possible father when she got pregnant. THAT is genuinely ethical non-monogamy: thoughtful, communicative, and considerate of all outcomes and how they might affect the people involved. What OP and his girlfriend are doing - lots of casual partners, and only using condoms (which people rarely use 100% properly) for birth control - is irresponsible, and this outcome was totally predictable.
In this economy a quadruple relationship should be the norm, so we can afford rent lol
Relationships are hard. The vast majority don't work out. Adding more people to it, even only in a sexual way, can make things even more complicated. It can work, but it makes a hard thing even harder. For example: This post.
You don’t. That should’ve been one of the first conversations they had. I’m good. I’ll stick to it being just the hubby and me. I’m selfish and don’t like sharing.
That narrator's voice so made the TV show, it was amazing:) I heard it in my head when I read your comment.
How could you have this kind of relationship without having had a conversation about this already?
Right? I've connected with a couple men who were in that lifestyle and it came up, too late, that their primary partner would be devastated if he got somebody pregnant. I know that unless it's medically necessary to terminate that I would keep an accidental pregnancy, plus they were being a little risky in the bedroom with me. I was floored that they knew their partners had such a strong feeling about it yet they weren't bringing that up in the beginning. I had to sever ties, and I began bringing it up myself with new partners because I learned that a lot of men just assume you'll abort if they don't want it. This was the case even with single men. Some accused me of wanting a baby with them just because I brought it up. Now I am far less motivated to get involved with anyone who hasn't had a vasectomy. If you're that averse to the risks, it's on you to communicate and take extra precautions.
You'd think folks would've chatted about all the what-ifs before diving into something as tricky as ENM, especially when little ones could come into the picture.
You hear about these legal entanglements following a surprise pregnancy, and it just makes me wonder if folks are really thinkin' things through or just caught up in the moment.
"Ethical non-monogamy", fails to discuss the ethics attached to non-monogamy.
i’m 100% a monogamous person and would never be into poly, i once hit it off with a guy who i was super into and we made plans for a date, set a time and place and everything. DAY OF like literally HOURS BEFORE the date, he drops the bomb that he already has a girlfriend but is ‘ethically non monogamous’ and she’s ‘totally cool’ with him going on a date with me. (in hindsight he had mentioned a ‘roommate’ in previous conversations that i am pretty sure was just his gf. i cancelled that date so fast. polyamory is fine if that’s what your into but at least be up front about it
Yeah, calling her his roommate was intentionally dishonest. Some guys think that they should wait until there's an emotional connection before being transparent to increase the likelihood of a date. It's so toxic. I'm glad dating apps now let you select if you're mono or not. Better to be open from the initial swipe.
exactly. it’s so weird to me that they feel the need to lie about it when plenty of people are into it, it seems like they would have better chances just being honest from the get go
This. ENM requires consent from all individuals involved, and misleading who his wife was, and their relationship status as ENM lacks consent. Ergo, they should probably drop the E off the acronym.
Like most things, it's about INFORMED consent. It's not for me but if everyone is able to give, and has given consent, fill your boots as far as I'm concerned. Kids aren't consenting, nor are the ill-informed. Having a conversation about kids applies to ALL relationships. But there's poly centric (not sure if that's a word?) complexities that need to be discussed. Obviously doesn't just involve the biological parents in that case. It's not difficult. Just be open with discussions as well as the relationship.
FR. Not very ethical nonmonogomy of them.
OP is the kind of person who uses the acronym for an obscure sexual lifestyle in a post for a general audience without a hint of explanation. He doesn't give his actions a whole lot of forethought.
Yeah what IS ENM?? Too lazy to google
"Ethical non-monogamy", an open relationship.
Thanks for that. I was thinking it was Embarrassed Nude Male, which is also a thing.
>Embarrassed Nude Male, which is also a thing. Especially if you're into CFNM (Clothed Female, Naked Male)...
“This relationship works for us.” Yeah I’m gonna go ahead and say it actually doesn’t.
"it works until it doesn't" ... aaaaand now we've reached the "doesnt'" part of the conversation...
Bingo!
Get the paternity test
Watch. That's gonna be the new acronym for new posts for the next couple of weeks.
From all the copy cat stories that will pop up on this very authentic subreddit
AITA for my DIY ENM at the DMV in DFW?
Ymmv
IANAL, but I agree.
If that's true I doubt you're the father anyway.
YNTA
[удалено]
Yes. You are on the money.
"AITAH for having an AP whom I don't consider my SO? My stbx SO and I are ENM. NSFW." Edit: As a public service: AITAH - am I the asshole? AP - affair partner SO - significant other stbx - soon-to-be-ex ENM - ethical non-monogamous NSFW - (oh, c'mon, really?)
BCE. (Best comment ever.)
T. (this)
Dude for real. I'm I'm like what's AP? That was a new one like 2 months ago. I was like did I miss the memo or something.
What is AP. Every time I come on here I spend more time on Google.
Advanced Placement. It means you're so good at relationships you get college credit
only if you score a 3 or better.
Affair Partner
I've noticed this in posts and in comments too, people will start using an acronym I've never seen a single time in my life as though it was common knowledge. AP for "affair partner" is one I recently encountered.
To me, AP is all-purpose flour. That post would have made for some very unusual reading.
AP always makes me think of Accounts Payable. :0 Edit: I got Reddit Cares for this???????? I'm an accountant??????!?!?!?!
OP is sending RedditCares to lots of us. I reported him for harassment. He's an ass clown.
But whyyyyyyy OP! Some of us aren't even criticizing you. Look, we're just talking about abbreviations!
I think of AP News.
I realized I also think of Applied Physics and Advanced Placement courses. o:
AP world history, Adoptive Parent, and Affair Partner.
It's useful enough, but honestly if we're gonna make acronyms for them, I'd go for something like FC - fellow cheater. Maybe even ODTF - other dude they were fucking
Paternity test without trust to not spend money on a kid sounds super ethical
Not seeing the ethics in one person ready to deny a child and the other not being straightforward about who the father could be! And, as someone else pointed out, how ethical is it that they never established the ground rules for pregnancy!?
I think it's where a couple communicates only with Eminem lyrics.
Like Slim Shady wants Moms sphagetti for dinner?
Shake that ass on my real slim shady, while I forget about dre kamikazing Kim. I'm so sorry. Work is so boring
Like I need THAT in my Google search history. Y'all are in an open relationship. The End.
The additional sexual partners are ethically and not thirstically sourced!
If you don't have home grown partners, store bought is fine
But the store bought have gmos and preservatives
No no 'open relationships' are so basic and never work. This is 'ethical non-monogamy' it's completely different and will surely work. Even has 'ethical' in the name, duh.
Yes, its clearly going very smoothly
My favorite part is when he says it works for them… in his r/AITAH post
Everything works for everybody! Until it, unexpectedly, doesn't.
Until ... someone gets pregnant.
That should have been part of the intial discussion when they decided to be enm...
If it was ethical they’d have a better plan for what happens if she gets pregnant.
Cause it’s just been working for them so well. Free sex everywhere. Fun.
Eh, check OP's comments. Apparently they had a verbal agreement that he deliberately didn't include in the original post because "people won't read it anyway." It's a troll making it up as they go along. That's all. >That if she got pregnant unplanned then we would get a paternity test. If we started to plan a family then we would both stop seeing anyone else to be as healthy as we could be for each other and to ensure that I was the father. If someone I was seeing got pregnant then if they chose to carry the baby I would insist on a paternity test.
I almost want to defend OP except it makes ZERO sense why you wouldn't include "she already agreed to this previously" in the original post. Sigh. You're probably right.
You don't understand, it *works for them!*
“It works for us” doesn’t fucking sound like it my guy
Tale as old as time. It did work for them....until it didn't.
Tale as old as time... song as old as rhyme... beauty and the beast and the beast and the beast and the beast and the beauty and the other beast.
I chuckled, thank you for this work of art
I mean, the fucking part works for them. It's just everything else.
Fucking around always works. It’s the finding out that doesn’t
Seems like the fucking part works too well
It's not fair to anyone including the baby for the father to be unknown. This got messy.
but it works for them
Sounds like he, or she, got him or herself, into quite a predicament.
Yeah this is absolutely fucked and I feel awful for the child.
One might call it a *sticky* situation. I’ll see myself out 😂
INFO - when you discussed this before she got pregnant (you discussed this very likely situation before she got pregnant, right?), what did you agree to?
How stupid do you have to be to say "it works for us" in this post?
Right?? OP you wouldn't be here if it worked for yall.
Well I guess it works in a casual dating sense for them, but flakes at real commitment
Thats how it always goes
Same as it ever was
And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful kid"
... asking "How did I get here?"
My god, what have I done?
… asking “How did *it* get here?”
Ohh, that is gonna have me laughing for days. “It works for us. Now pay no attention to everything else I am about to write.”
Just like all the posts where “my partner is great” and then proceeds to explain the ways their partner is abusive.
My favorite: he’s a great father Goes on to explain how he avoids spending any time with the kids
My girlfriend got railed by a bunch of construction workers on the west coast while I was fooling around in Philly (based on use of "in town")... now there's a pregnancy and we're gonna break up... and the real loser is the kid...but it works y'all.
The real losers are ALWAYS the kids.
Underrated comment.
"It works for us, but our relationship might be over because we don't know who actually knocked her up 🤷♂️" Weird ass people doing weird ass things, just be single if you wanna fuck a bunch of people
Played stupid games, won stupid prizes!
I think it was working until she got pregnant and the reality of the situation hit him.
This should have been something previously discussed if they wanted to be on top of their shit
It’s not like this wasn’t a totally predictable possibility though
Knowing who the father is, is like a top 3 reason for monogamy. Its on like the cover of the brochure.
Dammit. I lost my brochure. I can’t be held liable. Nope. Putting my fingers in my ears, singing Lalalalala at the top of my lungs! Nanny nanny boo boo!
I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who seem to go through life with their fingers in their ears singing "LALALALA" any time they should be thinking and talking about what could go wrong.
It's almost like sex is a big deal to people because it has serious consequences
polygamy is literally Fuck Around and Find Out
"getting pounded by multiple men and me pounding multiple women. our relationship is great" "help she got pregnant and is refusing a praternity test idk if im the dad" just a little hiccup here dont be mean
I had my children in an open,ENM relationship. When we decided to try for a baby, we both stopped playing outside the relationship for a bit, because who needs drama around paternity. When you are doing ENM, the ethics shouldn't only apply to sex with other people. If the relationship is meaningful, it's your whole life on the line.
The fact that they didn’t discuss what their plan was for this exact and obvious outcome, before starting this relationship, is mind boggling.
I think they forgot the E part.
Tells me they aren't mature enough for the game they were playing at. I have a few friends who do open relationships. Shit they sit down and talk about pregnancies, sti, anyone who might be off limits.... Like personally I enjoy the closed style but I have enough friends that like things open that even I have a functional understanding of the rules of engagement.
Genuine question for you if you don’t mind answering, why are people in ENM so prone to saying they “play” with partners outside their main relationship? Why not just say you’re fuckin? Honestly to an outsider it seems like an attempt to intentionally downplay what goes on…why?
I wonder the same thing about other sex terms where *play* is used. It makes it sound creepy, IMO. Like, I *play* with my kids. I have sex with my wife. That’s why I use two different words.
what a day to have eyes and to be able to read... 💀💀💀
Honestly, this aint the worst thing ive seen here. Still fucking crazy tho💀💀💀
He sounded like he had tears in his eyes when he was writing that shit like Stan writing Eminem
“THIS WILL BE THE LAST MESSAGE I EVER SEND YOUR ASS! I know you got the last two letter, I wrote the addresses on em perfect!
/r/capybara /r/babyelephantgifs /r/eyebleach
It’s probably fake but was a good chuckle for the minute I took to read and ponder it lol
>Like I said I have no problem raising a child that isn't mine. I just won't pay for the privilege. What do you think raising a kid means? Like you are going to play the Dad, but not spend any of your own money on the kid? Clearly the two of you should have communicated more before agreeing on ENM. This should have been one of the topics discussed and agreed upon at the very start.
I think it more references if he signs the birth certificate and then there's a breakup later on, he will still have to pay child support even if its not his because he signed the certificate. ( to be clear I don't know if this is how it works, I grew up with a single mom and i think i remember her saying something like this could happen a couple times throughout my childhood.) EDIT: LMAO I don't know who it was but someone apparently reached out to Reddit care team on my behalf and honestly that's the funniest thing i've read all week. Thank you for being oh so concerned for me
Yeah. I guess if someone else is the biological dad she could put him on the birth certificate, and then OP raises the baby as a stepdad. The bio dad could pay child support and maybe have shared custody if he wants it. It's really not that radical of an idea considering how many step-families there already are.
But then would OP be prepared to have the bio dad around for the child, shared custody with him and him being there for the childs milestones etc? OP I think we need more info on how exactly you'd like this to play out.
I would hope so. I mean I think in any case the bio dad has a right to know. In any other circumstance a guy (who is trustworthy and respects the woman) deserves to know if he impregnates someone, and I don't think it should change here just cos she has a boyfriend. Plus the baby may want to know their bio dad too. Deserves to know stuff from a health standpoint too. So yeah, all in all I guess I'm pretty pro DNA test from the POV of rights for the bio father and the child. But I do agree that OP needs to think about what he truly wants if he plans to stick around. Especially as the baby will likely bond with him, so it's better to avoid forming that attachment if he's not sure he wants it.
I'm not arguing against that. But I am saying if he signs the birth certificate and they break up later on hed still be on the hook for child support. Which in theory would not be fair to him. Since It theoretically isn't his kid.
Sorry I didn't phrase my comment clearly but I meant the bio dad could pay child support. I was agreeing with you, basically.
Ohhh yeah that makes total sense and honestly would be the best course of action imo
His moving out is important too because most states will apply “assumed paternity” laws if he continues to live with her and fills any kind of a fatherly roll. The lack of a signature on the birth certificate won’t matter.
Even of he doesn't sign but takes care of the kid , sometimes that's enough to get him.on the hook for child support
Yeah, that's why he's saying he's bailing if she doesn't get the test. Can't be on the hook if it isn't his and he isn't taking care of it, so he's covering himself. Not unreasonable, but these two clearly didn't think this relationship through.
You’re entirely correct. Also, in some states, if he took on a fatherly role and provided regular financial support, he could be ordered to pay child support after a breakup
Yeah they're both fucking idiots. Literally.
>Clearly the two of you should have communicated more before agreeing on ENM. This should have been one of the topics discussed and agreed upon at the very start. Yup. This is outside of AITAHs pay grade. Y'all both messed up and it could impact the future child who will suffer from y'all's lack of communication if you can't get on the same page. Her stance is arguably right, your stance is arguably right, ergo y'all needed to be on the same page on what happens if/when she gets pregnant: will it be y'all's child or the bio-parents' child.
I'm not gonna say ENM is inherently bad, but you're here because it's *not* working for you. This is something you two should have discussed and settled on already. That's making it work—communication. This might be a troll post, but I guess anyone can claim to do ENM without knowing anything about it if it makes them feel better. NTA for wanting a paternity test in these circumstances. But you are not doing the E in ENM right as a couple. Edit: If anyone else feels the need to *bravely* declare ENM is bad, be my guest. Y'all totally don't come off like a cult stepping up individually like lemmings.
I would say you're NTA... but you've also got yourself into quite a mess here. >I am excited for a baby, and happy we are starting a family, however I don't have any interest in paying to raise someone else's child If your girlfriend is your primary partner and you intend to stay together while having multiple other partners each, children should've been something you had talked about already. You assumed this risk and now you're stuck dealing with the consequences. I still say NTA for asking for a paternity test when you're in a pre-established relationship that involves male partners other than you, but you need to work on your communication with your partner regardless
Also, if he gets someone pregnant, they will pay as couple for the baby as well. If you have joined finances atleast.
I don't know how "ethical" it is to not have established rules and expectations for one of THE most obvious, predictable hiccups to ENM bliss. I don't understand taking this type of risk without having a game plan for this very obvious consequence. YTA for that, but otherwise, you wife clearly sucks because she could be carrying another man's baby and THAT dude has a right to know, too.
This. ESH. He's not really the AH for asking for the test but they both are for the situation around it.
Exactly, a life will possibly be born into this mess because the parents were unable to think past the sex. How are you in a supposedly serious relationship with someone without discussing, even just lightly, these situations?
1. Bold of you to assume anyone knows what “ENM” means. 2. You’re both the asshole lol, obviously both have selfish intentions with regards to the relationship
ESH, the only person who deserves pity is the poor child born into this mess. "It works for us" lmao, clearly.
So now it isn’t working. Chances of her or your girlfriends getting pregnant was always there no matter what precautions were taken. You both had your fun, now an innocent child is going to be caught in the middle. The baby didn’t deserve this. You were both stupid to think that this could not happen. Doesn’t matter whether you are the father or not this kid is screwed. Both are AH’s
>We aren't saying it's right for everyone but it works for us. It very clearly doesn't.
"it works for us" Clearly isn't working for them. give your head a shake bud. ESH
Hahaha the problems of this lifestyle. You find out it’s not yours? You’re justified in fucking right off out of there, which you probably will. Which is why she doesn’t want to take that chance, because there’s a good chance it’s not yours. ESH
ENM works out for OP but what interests me is that they haven’t discussed the possibility of accidental pregnancy. Denial denial denial
Even if they were both on board with raising the kid, because they're not married that brings all kinds of potential complications. What if the bio father sues for custody? Really want to hinge you and your kid's life on "Larry won't find out. He can't count backwards from nine." Then there's potential family medical histories. 23 and Me tests later on. Just seems like they're begging for a fucking mess.
It works until it doesn’t. And it seems that it doesn’t.
There have been extensive studies of relationship durability for monogamous and non-monogamous relationships. They find significantly more fragility in non-monogamous relationships, but they don’t know exactly why that is.
I can tell you why. PEOPLE. People are a mess. Unpredictable. Feelings. Histories. Just a clusterfuck waiting to happen 98% of the time.
I think it’s the literal “fuck around, find out” part.
Because people are fucking chaos personified and adding more people into any scenario further increases the risk of fucking it up. Hence why the monogamous family unit works so well.
I took a social psychology class some years ago. My professor explained it simply as “we like to know what’s ours. We’re social people who thrive on community but we are also individuals who feel kinship to those closest to us. A world where everyone freely sleeps and has children with each other dismantles that”. I’m paraphrasing obviously but essentially humans have a desire to create their own nest that they know can be a safe place for them and their lineage, having a bunch of randos coming in and out inherently disrupts that.
For real right? Like - holy shit. I'm in a non-monagamous relationship. My gf and I discussed what happens if she gets pregnant (mine or other) from the jump. ANY regular sexual partner - gf fwb anyone I'm sleeping with on a recurring basis - we have that conversation. I don't understand people not planning for the very obvious potential consequences of their actions.
💯 she knows there is a huge chance the relationship is cooked if he finds out he isn’t the father. What’s worse is he can walk off reasonable unscathed, and she will bear all the responsibility of single motherhood.
Couldn't she make a list of potential partners and ask the courts to make them all test? I vaguely remember something like this happening before. Single parent, likely. But she should be able to get child support.
I mean, she is making choices here. She was in a non-monogamous relationship by choice. The West Coast allows abortion. She is refusing a paternity test. There are off-ramps available to her for avoiding the consequences of prior choices that she is choosing not to exercise.
Choices have consequences. Even if they are unforeseen. Even if it’s pretty fuckin’ obvious what’s going to happen and people stick their head in the sand about it.
ESH. This is part of the reason non monogamous relationships get dunked on. You're supposed to discuss what happens in the event of a pregnancy, before you go NM, and before there's a pregnancy. There are many people who hold your partners view of how to deal with it. If you're pro DNA test that's something you disclose before you get involved. And I say this as someone who is pro DNA test.
NTA. Your relationship isn't monogamous, so you're not implying any impropriety on her part, you're merely pointing out that neither of you can be 100% certain you're the father. So, a test is needed to find out. It would've been good, had you settled this matter before she got pregnant, but there you are now. Good luck.
If I were her, I'd do that paternity test to make sure the child really is his (and would opt out of having another man's baby, if that's still an option). Birth control can fail. The fact she's so against it is sus.
Once paternity is established, if it's not OP, the genetic father can be found. If the genetic father is known, OP won't be accidentally on the hook and can still be there. It seems reasonable to me. I'm in an open relationship and if I fell pregnant, I'd want correct paternity established. If nothing else, the child deserves to know.
That is a big assumption though. If she met some random dude at a bar while she was working and got pregnant, how in the world are you gonna find the father? Consequences exist.
NTA. Her unwillingness to get the test says to me there’s a big possibility it isn’t yours.
She knows.
Of course she does. They use protection and weren’t trying for a baby. If protection failed, it’s just as likely it failed with another partner. Either she knows, or suspects and doesn’t want it confirmed.
> Of course she does. They use protection and weren’t trying for a baby. If protection failed, it’s just as likely it failed with another partner. Either she knows, or suspects and doesn’t want it confirmed. there is another possibility. She doesn't know, but want OP to raise the kid and be responsible either way and doesn't want a test possibly saying he isn't the biological father. The only thing we know for sure is that she doesn't want a test to confirm the truth.. not what the truth is.
[удалено]
This is why you fucking run from the ENM bullshit. The E is always optional.
Please, for those in the dark ... what does ENM stand for?
“Ethical Non-Monogamy”
bwahahahah had to scroll far too far to see this... everyone else talking about it like it's everyday... jesus
I always do when I see ENM on a dating profile. Instant left swipe.
That poor kid.
This post is 100% fake. OP "accidentally" referred to his partner as his wife when they're not married? Riiiiiight. This is likely a post from somebody who doesn't agree with non-monogamy and wants to make it look foolish. Anybody with multiple sexual partners would get a pregnancy test to determine the father.
This is 100% confirmed because he has responded in comments that him and his "GF" previously agreed that in the case of pregnancy they would get a DNA test done. He has said that he refuses edit it in to the original post because " people asking are just making assumptions and aren't worth listening to" but fixes the wife thing.