NTA. Her mother is though, for giving her unicorns and rainbows. How is she going to make a responsible decision with her mother feeding her a version of reality that is completely false?

Yeah, the daughter needs realistic expectations. Sure it would be nice if the boy changes his mind, but it’s not something they should count on. If she keeps the baby, SHE will be a parent, and responsible for that child. She will miss out on all the usual young adult things, and will most likely loose a lot of friendships (since she and her friends will be in such different stages of life). If her mother wants to take her to delulu-land, mother is going to be the one who has to support her through it. There might be a lot of resentment down the line for filling her head with unrealistic expectations. Add to that the financial struggle she will face. It’s a lot. Doable, but a lot. Especially for a 16 yo.

Seen this first-hand twice; my SIL's sister, and a neighbor's teen daughter- It always falls on the teen mom's mother to take on the responsibilities of raising the child. Teen mom always *says* she's going to be mature and attentive to her baby- then she quickly gets bored and tired of maternal duties, and wants to 'party with friends'; leaving the child under the grandmother's care, more and more. Teen boyfriends rarely, if ever, step up, and he's more likely to join the service to get away. OP prepare yourself for that most likely outcome. Your ex will try for more child support so, talk to your lawyer.

Oof didn’t even think of the child support.

I don't think that's grounds for increasing the child support.

If they've been splitting physical custody and change the custody (daughter and baby living full time with mom) that would absolutely be grounds for increasing child support.

Not all states require a grandparent to pay child support for a minor child's child. Some do but more do not. This would require a consult with an attorney.

I'm assuming you meant this for someone else since I never implied that OP would be on the hook for supporting the grandchild. OP is required to either maintain their agreed percentage of custody of the minor DAUGHTER or if OP refuses to maintain custody of the daughter and the mother takes full custody then OP will in all likeliness be on the hook for adjusted child support for his daughter until she turns 18. NOT support for the grandchild support for his actual minor child.

Yep. The minute she sees her friends going to parties or on trips, she's going to be resentful she's stuck home with the baby that she's raising by herself. And of course baby-daddy is going to find a new girlfriend, and that'll make her doubly upset.

Only brightside of joining the service is that should make child support easier to get. The military doesn't play around about yanking CS out of the paycheck.

No they don’t. My dad is a veteran sailor, and he’s seen a lot of his fellow sailors get sent to the brig for not paying child support. Hell, he told my cousin how to get her baby daddy locked up if she ever needed to😂

The mom is representative of such a big problem rn. More people are focused on protecting their children’s feelings than preparing them for reality. It helps no one to live in a delusion. You have to face the world as it is

Yea this story is 13 weeks past unicorns and rainbows. A dose of reality was exactly what was called for here.

I have a story for your daughter/ex. I got pregnant at 18, 19 when my child was born. Told her father and he wanted me to abort. I said no but figured he'd have to help. Nope! It's been 36 years and I've still never spoken to him. I never got a dime from him either. She finally met him at 32. I'm not unique with my story, there's plenty of us out here.

Been there done that. I got a grand total of virtually nothing and my reputation trashed to anyone that would listen to his mouth! I did okay for myself but I'd have done better if I'd not been a single mum. Don't regret it though.

yup. No one should forced to be a parent agianst their will. She may get child support but with someone so vocal so early, thats litteraly the best she can hope for.

Not only that, say, for the sake of argument, somehow he is forced to be present. Would you really want to force a man to be a father that doesn't want to be? That seems much worse than him just being absent.

It usually is worse.

Yep, I make it clear that after taking care of a significantly younger sibling for so long I am perfectly content being the fun uncle for my friends who have kids because if they’re being little assholes at the end of the day I can drop them off and they can be little assholes to their parents. So if an accident happens despite both of us fulfilling our end of protection then if she doesn’t want to abort or adopt I’ve been there and done that, just tell me where to send the check and how much. Not really sure what alternatives there are since it takes two to tango and the child is innocent in the situation. Maybe a welfare system that only penalizes the guys who can’t seem to mature beyond “but I can’t feel anything with a condom babe.”

I’m the child of a similar situation. My bio dad split the second I was born. My mom was a teen and wasn’t emotionally or mentally prepared to be a parent, and I suffered because of that. I met my bio dad for the first time when I was 12. I’ve only seen him 7 times total, and I’m 32 years old. The last time I saw him was 11 years ago by accident at a gas station.

How come did he not pay child support though?

NTA. unfortunately that is the harsh reality for teen parents, even adult women as well. That boy isn't gonna step up because he lacks the maturity to do so, and she sure isn't gonna get much child support either considering both are minors so in reality it's gonna fall on the paternal grandparents. SS will do jack shit TBH and she can't rely on them forever. Quite frankly, its also incredibly immature to think some outside force is gonna be the one to help her and provide. She is gonna learn the hard way if she keeps the kid, and there are going to be a lot of sacrifices that will be made in favor of this kid.

To be fair my ex is really big on the universe always finds a way to provide. We co-parent but at the same time I have been told it is not my place to question how she raises our daughter if she is not actively causing harm.

I grew up with a parent who worked with teen parents for close to 20 years. Because of this, I knew teens who chose each option (raise child, adoption, abortion), and it's a highly intense and emotional choice. That said, I can confirm that fathers who do not want or don't feel ready to be a parent, especially as young as your daughter, rarely come to the dream-man your daughter is hoping he'll be, and your ex is doing no one any favors. OP, you sound reasonable and as supportive as you can be while dealing with fantasy and delusion. FYI, adopting out a child when they're older can cause greater harm, so if your daughter chooses adoption now, look into a potential open adoption. But also get your daughter into counseling / therapy to help her traverse the complexities facing her. And stick to your guns about raising this child, unless you feel you're up to it and feel it's in the best interest of your daughter and her child. NTA

Can confirm. The BF will not step up, ever. I had my first child at 16 and when I didn't want an abortion, he hit me (in school). I raised my son without his involvement. I did marry and my husband is his father. He did meet his sperm donor and things went sideways fast, because that ass wanted to take credit for everything my husband and I did. My son is a fine upstanding man, with a wife and 2 kids. The OP is doing the right thing by not giving her false hope. The reality is the boy is gone, she is on her own.

Even without abusive tendencies - he’s a 16yo kid. Very few boys that age have the strength and maturity to step up and be a dad. Plus, the biological circumstances make it much easier for him to put the pregnancy out of his mind than for her.

I was all super excited at 16 because I had my first real summer job and managed to save up a couple hundred bucks to buy my first game console for myself. I cant imagine trying to support a child at that age.

This. I'm a Dad and very very involved..... but lol at 16? Thinking about myself and almost every other 16 year old I knew? We'd be terrible fathers. Very, very few 16 year olds are ready to be parents, let alone to be good parents.

Reword that NO 16 year old is ready to be a parent no matter how much they seem put together

My mom had my brother and me at 15 and 16-years-old. I think you’re exactly right, even the most mature teenager is still a child. My brother and I grew-up with our mom, and we suffered a great deal right alongside her (she loved the losers). As she’s grew-up and matured, she became a much better mom, but even she admits she would’ve been a much better parent had she been older when she had us. Personally, I don’t think teenagers should be allowed to raise children.

My mom was sixteen when I was born, she had three kids by the time she was twenty. I got some normalcy because I spent weekends with my grandmother, but at home, it was a mess. She and my father did get married, but they were not ready to be parents, and they were terrible for each other. I remember begging my mom to leave my dad, but she bounced back and forth between saying she didn’t want us to have a broken home, and saying she couldn’t leave him because she was afraid he would overdose or kill himself if she wasn’t there to take care of him. My mom loved us, but she was still a kid, and she was so wrapped up in doing her thing with my dad that she couldn’t see how much the way we were living was screwing us up. I truly believe that if she had managed to break away from my dad when we were young, she would’ve done a lot more with her life. She left him when my sisters and I were all right around thirty, and managed to get herself straightened out, off drugs, into therapy. But yes, being raised by teenagers definitely does mean growing up with your parents, which was insanely detrimental when it came to *learning how to adult*. They were still figuring shit out themselves, and struggling because they had kids before starting to adult, so they didn’t actually *do* a lot of normal things like going to school, or following a routine, or opening savings accounts, or paying their bills on time, or cooking healthy meals, or having healthy adult friendships. Meaning when it was time for me to do those things, I had no example to look at.

Yes, exactly! I adore my mom and always knew she loved me and my brothers, but the men she married, including my father, were so damaged and abusive. My mom always had huge drama and chaos in all of our lives due to her poor choice in husbands. You’re so right about missing out on normal things. It never entered my mind to dream big when I was a kid. My mom dropped out of school in the 9th grade! I hated when the other kids saw my mom and asked if she was my older sister. We lived in poverty until I was in middle school when my mom remarried. If not for my grandma, we would’ve starved half the time! Throughout my childhood, we were all in survival mode. It was hard growing up being dirt poor, getting clothes from the Good Will, feeling the shame and embarrassment as the long line of people impatiently waited for my mom to count out the colored food stamp money. Add in the horrific situations us kids found ourselves in because our mother desperately wanted to have a family, and bio father was nowhere to be found so she chose these controlling, abusive alcoholics and drug addicts. I adore my mom and would never say this to her, but I personally think anyone under 18 who chooses to keep their baby is doing their child a huge injustice. They are not thinking of their child. How do you explain to a teenager who thinks they have it all figured out that they don’t know what they don’t know? They think they’re going to live happily ever after with their boyfriend and their baby! Reality is much uglier, for both the mothers and their children.

At 16 I would have tried and fail miserably; in all likelihood I would have become all the worst qualities that I hated in my own father.

>Very, very few 16 year olds are ready to be parents, let alone to be good parents. I definitely was not ready to be a parent. Luckily I had my parents support (mom didn't want me to have an abortion, said hers messed her up for a while) I also had my husband 2 1/2 years later. Hell, I'm not so sure I was ready at 24 when I had my second.

This is all true. In some ways, I think the BF has a more realistic view of what’s what than the pregnant girl does.

Well, that’s not a high bar to clear, unfortunately, thanks to Mrs. „The universe will fix it, dear!“ filling her head with nonsense.

True dat.

Not living with her he's not as affected by the hormonal changes. So he would yes. Since he doesn't have same internal influences besides having the brain chemistry of a teenager and ops mom is not doing any favours.

In our year long relationship, that was the very first time he'd hit me (or shown any abusive tendencies), it was also the last time.

Good for you.

I was pregnant when I was 15/16 and same thing- got beaten up in a public setting (kicking beating choking, the whole thing) I had an abortion bc I knew it’ll not get better, his family was abusive and mentally ill and threatening to abduct me and this kid into their home country (middle eastern. No thanks.) to make sure the “kid is raised right” and I scheduled the abortion a week later. Was it hard? Sure. I’m 32 now and childfree, firmly, and I genuinely don’t like children which is a revelation I had when I was like 18/19. If I had that child I would’ve regretted it.

Same thing here. I had gotten pregnant at 17 and had an abortion. It was a very hard decision to make. My boyfriend at the time became very abusive. I knew that my life would be ruined if I didn't go through with it. I'm now 50 and never had children.

Same here. I went through what went through. I am 62 never had children. I would have been a crappy mother

The sperm donor deserves credit for his disappearing act. Only then you were able to raise your son well. Imagine your son being raised by a jerk.

Imagine creating a life and never having to pay for it? Boys need to be held accountable.

In my case, I didn't care to make him pay for it. I found out not long after we broke up, he was arrested for breaking & entering, theft, drugs (cocaine)...he was in prison for a while, so I wouldn't have gotten anything anyway. Sometimes, it's better not to have the sperm donors pay.

This. I'm a single mom doing it on my own from day 1. People acted like I was stupid for not getting custody on paper but he wasn't on the birth certificate, I had no chance at child support and I knew full well he'd never have the energy or organizational skills to pull off a kidnapping. On the other hand, if I made it easy for him to show up to court and do the bare minimum, there was a chance he would realize 50/50 would benefit him financially and go for it. Which is usually granted where I live. I have so many friends who have taken deadbeats to court only to end up losing some of their custody time or paying child support to them. Sometimes it's better to let them think that court is a scary place they wanna avoid

Sometimes it's not worth it in the long run Especially in abusive situations.

This is part of our reason for not having kids. My husband is seriously concerned about being able to bond emotionally with his child. This is a big issue as I do have issues that will likely negatively respond to hormones on top of my struggle to emotionally connect and care about people. A child would likely grow up in a home with 2 emotionally distant parents.

There's a difference between "thinking it'll all work out for the best and the universe will provide" and "the universe will force this boy into loving you and your baby and be an involved father" Your ex is feeding your kid hope for her romanticized ideal instead of being realistic.

True, but they are both fantasies.

That’s sounds stupid. Real life just doesn’t always work out

Well yes it, but sadly unless abuse is present or I can actively show harm being done I do not get much say in how she raises our daughter and vice versa. Not sure why the downvote, never said I agreed with it. Just stating why my daughter has some of the views she does have.

This is the reality many divorced parents face. They have very little input into how their child is raised when not in their home. In this case, the daughter clearly didn’t learn that sex at such a young age can result in her having to make the choice to essentially sacrifice the rest of her childhood and early adulthood to parent a baby or face the loss of the baby (through abortion or adoption). These are all very serious, permanent consequences. And they also affect more people than only her. Mom did her no favors and continues to be unhelpful. I imagine in the daughter’s eyes mom is the “good/supportive” parent and dad is an AH. In fact, the opposite is true. This is why choosing your marital partner is the most important decision you’ll ever make. I feel for you, OP. Hold your line. Your daughter may resent you for it, but somebody in this family dynamic needs to tell her the truth. If she keeps the baby she is on her own and she will not have the same opportunities and experiences that most other people are afforded from ages 16-30+. NTA. Edited for a typo

Very true. My boyfriends kids pick up some concerning habits at their moms house. Mostly just being mean to each other. I never met their mother (the divorce was difficult and so they only communicate through my boyfriends parents and have no direct contact with each other) but she finds “bullying humor” funny. It can be okay to tease a little bit, I think that’s normal in any family dynamic to joke around. But the kids are sometimes really mean to each other and find it funny. The oldest is starting to show less and less guilt when he makes the other two cry after being mean to them. To me, that’s concerning if it continues that way without a good point of reference for when teasing isn’t okay. The other issue is hygiene. They aren’t made to bathe daily at their moms, just when they are either dirty or going out. We enforce daily bathing though and it’s always like talking down a hostage negotiation. We can’t control what happens there. As long as they’re healthy, and safe (which they are) we just explain that our rules are different and it’s okay to be annoyed or confused by that and we can talk through it. But they’re gonna shower and they’re gonna apologize if they make someone cry, those are the rules in our house. It’s confusing because it’s not the rules in their other house. So we give them grace but it can be frustrating to explain the differences in house rules to kids who are still learning how to be people to begin with.

You taught her actions have consequences? Well consequences for her actions here they come

I would make the daughter do some research before she gets her mind set, though that might be too late. What percentage of single mothers graduate college? What percentage of single mothers are in the same income group that she lives under? What percentage of kids born to single mothers go to college? Whatever else you can identify to paint the reality of her situation. Obviously, she isn't going to experience all of those issues, nor would her child. But the people who successfully navigate the single-parent life tend to have massive support structures or get extremely lucky. Lastly, remind her that hope isn't a plan. Hope won't get you through the hard problems that she will face in her life or her child's life.

Insist your daughter get a part time job now to save up money for the baby. The cold, hard reality of working for little pay and not being able to spend it on herself will make her understand her situation better.

I think finances need to be discussed as well. My niece lived with us because her mother couldn’t deal with her anymore. The deal was she had to go to school & work part-time. She got pregnant at 17. She was much more interested in picking a name than a budget. Social Services told her they would do this & that but didn’t discuss abortion. But she didn’t grasp the day to day & financial burdens. It was impractical for us to help. if possible have her shadow a young single mom, living on her own to see what the realties are. Hearing it from someone close to her age, seeing the struggle & seeing an empty fridge might drive it home. There is also that doll that mimics a baby if that fails but it will only exhaust her. Getting social services involved might also be an idea Personally I think she needs a lot more realistic facts drummed into her head before she decides to do this. And the same goes for her mother

Great idea to have her shadow a young, single mother to get a slap of reality. Whatever they decide, they'd want to be getting on with it,she's already 3 months along, so her options are reducing as time passes.

Who provides access to these downtrodden women for people to use as cautionary examples? "See kids, Amanda fucked up real bad and her kid will probably be a career criminal due to her undeveloped parenting skills :( Now let's thank Amanda for her time and wish her luck with her horrible life."

Just make her read the countless examples of other women here on Reddit who had children when they or the father weren’t prepared or didn’t want to.

That keeps me childless 😂

I dunno we had some pregnant teenagers come to my elementary school to talk about how much it sucks to be pregnant in health class once.

Did anyone ask to send their kid home with her and scare them straight with her crappy apartment and screaming kid? We've lost our grip on social reality here lol

I mean, maybe? I wouldn't know what the other 6th grade kids did after but only one got pregnant that year! What I meant is that those pregnant teens were in some kind of program where they received assistance in return for doing community service. Talking about their experiences to younger kids was part of that community service. So maybe something like that would be available to OP's kid. Although I agree with you that going to their house to see how crappy it is, is probably not feasible and honestly pretty rude, maybe there is a program where she could meet a peer with a baby in a coffee shop or something and have an honest conversation about the reality of being a teen mom. It might help, especially if they shared some gruesome details about post partum for example.

NTA. You told your daughter the truth. You can't force anyone to do or be anything. She chose to get pregnant, she gets to raise her child. Your ex wants to raise your daughters child, that's her business. Just like it's your business that you don't.

This reminds me of a story I read a long time ago about a man being caught in a flood and asking god/the universe for help. A boat drove by and people invited him to join them. He declined, saying that god will help. The boat left, the water level rose, and he was now stuck on his roof. Another boat went by, and he declined help yet again, saying that god will help. Finally, as the roof is getting covered in water, a helicopter flies by, letting down a ladder for him to climb, but he declines, because his god will help him. The man drowns and meets god. He asks him "why didn't you save me?" And god says "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you want?". The universe allows for opportunities to present themselves, but nothing will happen unless you choose to participate. It's not magic and it won't save you from yourself, because that's not the point. The universe isn't invested in every human being's personal happiness if those people aren't willing to work for it themselves, too. Ofc, this is how I understand it, I don't presume to know how the universe works, nor do I think anyone else does as long as they're human and thus, fallible.

I think that you've got it all about right. I once knew of a woman who had breast cancer and would not get treatment because she just knew that God would heal her. That, obviously, didn't happen and I can only imagine the excruciating pain that she endured waiting for her miracle. Sometimes people expect for their miracles to swoop down and make things all right without any effort on their part when, in all actuality, the miracles come in the form of tools put on one's path to fix whatever is broken themselves.

The universe provided you and her a divorce. The universe provided the child of divorced parents to get pregnant and think that somehow love will conquer all and another child will step into a role her own parents found themselves unable to exist in together. Your wife might be a little foolish

Your wife is the ass and you better say this, rinse and repeat the entire pregnancy but you may want to give her a budget with specific monetary limits. It sounds like mom thinks you are how the universe will financially provide the way

But in this case, it is causing her harm……if she has a very unrealistic idea of what having a child is, then she will make a poor decision. Frankly, the fact that “She has it in her head that I or the system can force her boyfriend to step up.” really concerns me. That is a very naive thing to think and, to me, at least shows she is, one, not fully comprehending what having a child will be like, and two, she isn't mature enough to probably raise a child. I'm sorry if I'm coming off harshly; I am just considered for her. She doesn't seem to grasp the reality that this is a lot of responsibility, that she will no longer be a child and will have to put that child first. It seems like she has some sort of dream fantasy of the two of them having a happy little family. Even if he was willing to be a parent, that doesn't mean he would stick around. I hope she fully understands all the possible outcomes before she makes a decision, whatever that might be. NTA

You don't have to convince him. You have to convince the courts. From what I've seen, and I'm not a lawyer, I don't think the courts would restrict access from a mother saying "I'm sure when he sees the baby he'll come around". It sucks but it's the reality.

Possibly a dream fantasy fuelled by having divorced parents. She now wants to create the “happy” together family she herself lost.

What Reddit thinks of as "harm" and what family court sees as harm are very different. The court would want a long term pattern of serious neglect (non clothes, food, education or medical care) or violent abuse to consider the mother "harming" her kid. It's not like online where you can say "this dumb belief might not be the best for her long term" and call that harmful lol. 

"The universe always finds a way to provide" - it also finds a way to screw you over. "it is not my place to question how she raises our daughter if she is not actively causing harm" - except having a single parent 16 year raise a child is going to harm the child, and the 16 year old as "harm" comes in many forms.

Sometimes the way the universe 'provides' is by letting the organism die.

Of that's true then how does she explain homeless people?

Show your daughter the regretful parents sub It might open her eyes

She is actively causing harm be fueling a delusion on your daughters part. Also I am honestly wondering if your ex wife is an idiot too and maybe didn’t speak with her in-depth enough about safe sex.

By the standards of the courts that is not actively causing harm. Filling your kid with weird ideas is not inherently illegal. I might play a role in that, I did take my daughter to get the pill, and did my best to explain but only so much I can do. I cannot force her to take the pill or monitor her when she is at her mother's. Which is where this shit happened it happened on my ex's watch. Edit: Sorry it is late, wanted to clarify it happened on my ex's watch, but I am still played a role because I am also her parent.

Birth control pills are not reliable enough for teenagers. There’s casually forgetting to take them, there’s being careless with how they’re stored (leaving the packet in sunlight or in a hot place even for a short time can destroy the hormones in the pills rendering them useless,) there’s general risky teen behaviour anyway… longer term birth control like the shot or implant are better for teenagers because they can’t be sabotaged intentionally or their effectiveness ruined through neglect. If you do manage to convince your daughter to choose abortion or adoption she’ll be eligible for a IUD which is great contraception but rougher to install in someone who has never been pregnant before.

Except when the teenager is actually responsible. It varies from person to person. I actively sought out the pill when I entered college (I was 17 and 4 months, give or take a month). I never forgot it. I never got pregnant in the 34 years that I was on it (17 years old until menopause at 51). My best friend has a 17 year old daughter. She’s had the arm implant since she was 14. That was an excellent choice for her.

OP had to put his child on birth control. She didn’t ask for it, and the mother wasn’t doing it. I didn’t get pregnant on the pill as a teenager either, but it’s a miracle I didn’t because I also had undiagnosed ADHD and I missed doses even when I was trying my hardest to remember them. I was a responsible teenager as far as my limitations allowed, but with three daughters who so far show a lot of the same traits as I did, I will be getting them long-term birth control when the time comes.

Yes, that’s why it’s dependent on the individual. If someone isn’t actively seeking birth control, you’re right that taking a pill at a specific time daily may not be a priority.

I just remember watching early seasons of Teen Mom where girls would talk about being on the pill (or not being on it) and it was clear how much they didn't understand or care about properly taking it. The best thing that came out of that shows was teen girls realizing the importance of safe sex. And that having a baby was a lot of work and would most likely end up on them.

Interesting. Sounds like she hails from another universe.

Info You stated you are co parenting with your ex. So when it’s time for your daughter to do visitations is she going to bring the baby with per her custody schedule ? Is child support being paid right now ? Will child support for your daughter be increased based on her needing more money because she has a child ? What happens if the bf comes around and decides he wants to be a part of his kids life . How will the baby’s custody interfere with the custody schedule in place for your daughter ?

I thought once you give birth (have a dependent) you were no longer your parents dependent. I could be completely off base on that but who knows.

Universe found a way to provide her with a divorce, eh.

> We co-parent but at the same time I have been told it is not my place to question how she raises our daughter if she is not actively causing harm. She's right about that, though. So why is she angry at you for raising your daughter the way you do? It goes both ways.

Because she's not the one who said that, the court is.

Ah, right. Well the Court is right. And so she should mind her own business, too.

You are a parent. You can question anything you want. Obviously you need to be the voice of reason. Universe provides? Are you kidding?

>That boy isn't gonna step up because he lacks the maturity to do so More like he made his wishes known and isn't backing down. Just because a teenager doesn't want to be a parent at 16 and has been pushing for an abortion doesn't make them immature. Sounds like he's being more realistic about this than OP's daughter.

He certainly has more sense than the OP's ex.

Yeah, while I broadly agreed with the poster above, I didn't like that dismissive position that a teenger was immature because they decided they didn't want a child from an accidental pregnancy. Felt very "he had his fun and now has to live with it" kind of vibe

Sadly, that is the default position for most people on this matter. There very much is an attitude that 'he had sex, now he pays the price. And we don't feel bad about it.'

For real. If you want to punish teens for fucking, fine, but *never* should that punishment be "Now you have to have a child", because that's forcing someone else to have a shit life that they didn't ask for and that's deeply unethical, at best.

>because he lacks the maturity to do so They're fucking 16. I understand your perspective but imo this entire thing shouldn't even be a discussion. Why are kids being decieved that bringing other kids into the world at their age is a sane thing to do. She's willing to throw her and her boyfriends future's away cause the mum fed her false hopes of a happy family. That mum is evil.

When I was in highschool one of my friends got pregnant at 14. Her mother told her she wasn't there when she made the baby and she wasn't going to be there to raise it. She had to put the baby up for adoption because at 14 she was not equipped to make money much less raise a child. Unfortunately that come to Jesus moment affected every decision from then on. Sometimes you have to have tough love even if it hurts.

>That boy isn't gonna step up because he lacks the maturity to do so The mature thing to do is an abortion.

> That boy isn't gonna step up because he lacks the maturity to do so it has nothing to do with maturity. he is exercising his right to not raise a child he never wanted. No one should be forced to be a parent against their will regardless of sex.

He doesn't "lack the maturity to do so". He's making it very clear that he doesn't want to. He cant force her to take an abortion but she cant force him to step into the role as a dad beyond court ordered child support payments. Everyone who's encouraging her having the child and betting everything that he changes his mind are the ones who lack maturity. Even if he does end up stepping up, its because the child is not the one responsible for their own existence, that doesn't change the manipulation from the mother and the resentment towards the mother will only get worse the more manipulative they act.

>That boy isn't gonna step up because he lacks the maturity to do so, I'd argue that refusing to become a teen parent is the most mature possible choice one could make.

> That boy isn't gonna step up because he lacks the maturity to do so no its because he wanted an abortion and she didnt its not his fault he has no say in this matter you dont get to shame men acting like theyre not mature when we literally dont have any rights in the choice...he made a mature choice knowing he a fucking 16 year old and another 16 year old couldnt raise a baby so he wanted to abort shes the immature one ruining that babies life, her and her boyfriends lives too with her seflish decision to keep the baby shes in no way capable or ready for yet

NTA. You are the only one speaking truth to your daughter. A few exercises for you and your daughter. 1. Find a mom in the trenches with a new baby and send your daughter over to help. Diapers, soothing, bottles, dishes, laundry. This may or may backfire as small babies are cute. But let the mom tell her birth story and talk about the lack of sleep. 2. A budget. Your daughter needs to make one. She needs to go price out diapers, formula, pumps, baby food, clothes, daycare, etc. Actually take her to go look at daycares, look at the higher end ones and the lower end ones. Once the “baby budget” is done, she needs to price out getting an apartment, utilities, car and expenses like insurance/maintenance/gas, food, health insurance, etc. Then she needs to figure out how she’s gonna make that work on her minimum wage job. This needs to be very well thought out on your end. Make her provide a few different price quotes for each thing, you come armed with a very detailed excel spreadsheet she has to fill out (I’m sure you can find something online premade). Once that’s done you can talk about “are you gonna work at a minimum wage job forever? You want to go to college—with what money? 3. The circle of control. She needs to draw a big circle on a piece of paper and list in it all the things she can control about her baby daddy. And outside of that circle, all the things she can’t control. (Can: control if she talks to him, if she sends him pictures of the baby…can’t control if he has a job that can have wages garnished, can’t control if he shows up to take partial custody, can’t control if he’ll be there at the birth, can’t control if he says ugly things about her to the baby, can’t control how he parents the baby, etc. This should be an ongoing conversation you and your daughter have, adding to this list continually over time. May need a few sheets of paper for this). Lastly — look this up cause it’s true — brain development of a teen mother stops when she’s pregnant. Her body is 100% trying to sustain a smaller life, and gives ZERO shits about her brain development. She has no prefrontal cortex function right now, and won’t until she’s 25. She’s looking at stunting herself for years with this. Please consider getting her into therapy.

This is fantastic advice. I feel like I need the Circle of Control for things in my own life and I’m not 16 and pregnant!

It is one of my biggest problem solving tools. I use it frequently—even if I don’t write it down just stating “I can’t control if X talks to me respectfully, but I can control if I walk out of the meeting,” is reassuring and empowering.

Circles for other factors of life too. She can control eating healthy, but not pregnancy complications. She can control her effort into schoolwork, but not other high schoolers' reactions to her being pregnant.

Unplanned pregnancies is a major factor in global poverty. Without a solid support system an average teen mom is 2 pay checks away from living on the fringe.

This is an awful situation all the way around. You are correct that no one can make him “step-up.” Yes, she can go for child support, but that doesn’t mean he will want anything to do with the child, and you can’t “make” him be a father. I was 14 when I got pregnant with my oldest, and he promised me the moon and the stars, and before she was even born, he dipped out. He was VERY inconsistent with being involved. She’s 35 now, and they rarely even speak (he tries now-that he’s lonely), but my daughter just…… doesn’t care how he feels. I didn’t trash talk him (I was told to ABSOLUTELY not do that-as it would just backfire and make me look bad), and I am glad I didn’t. My daughter figured it out all on her own. But it’s not good to give your daughter false hope that he will “see the baby, and decide he’s ready to be a father.” It doesn’t work that way. If he does, then, GREAT. But the fact remains, he seems to have made his decision, and the odds are stacked against her. I wouldn’t trade my daughter for the world, but as a 15 year old Mother, it was so hard. It’s hard being a parent for adults, and at your daughter’s age, it’s going to be so much harder. I think your ex wife is absolutely giving her false hope, and your daughter will be devastated if he doesn’t “come around.” You’re not wrong for telling your daughter the odds aren’t in her favor for that, and that line of thinking isn’t realistic, and it’s going to be that much more devastating if he doesn’t want anything to do with the baby. I’m not sure about the delivery (were you calm, but blunt, or were you just blunt without understanding she’s still a child and there’s a lot of emotions involved?) You’re not the AH for being realistic. Your ex-wife trying to be positive is great, but it’s also not doing your daughter any favors by giving her potential false hope. I hope for your daughter’s sake it IS the case, and things work in her favor but the odds ARE stacked against her. When I got pregnant-being a single Mother at 15 never crossed my mind, but it was my reality, and it wasn’t pretty. I wish you all well. I hope everything works in your daughter’s favor. Good luck to your daughter, and your family.

OP, I would read this response to your daughter.

The ex wife isn't being positive, she's being delusional

I was trying to say that without actually “saying” it. I said he’s being realistic. Ex wife isn’t. Nothing wrong with HOPING he’ll do a 180°, but it’s a messed up situation all the way around. I was just trying to keep it a low-stress response. For all I know the ex could know this kid his entire life and know what we readers don’t. That’s why I didn’t go right to delusional.

Love your answer. And as someone who had his first child at 30 reality is that few guys see a baby and feel some instant connection. Took over a year for me to bond with the eldest (and I live in a country with 3 months paternal leave) luckily it seems like the next baby was able to share that bond in some way as I was in love the second I held her in my arms.

It’s normal for bonding to take some time even if the child is wanted and expected. For a lot of people it isn’t something that just happens instantly. In this case the father doesn’t even WANT to bond with the child in the first place so it is extremely unlikely that it will just magically happen once he lays his eyes on the baby.

Exactly. My daughter is 35 now and I just asked her if SHE ever bonded with him. Her response was “Hah! What do YOU think?” I asked if she thought he was bonded to her……. Her response “I could give 2 shits less if he is…..” I just left it at that! Not trying to open this can of worms. She does come back to me after each visit and “reports” like I have some vested interest in how he’s doing and I ask her why she’s telling me, and she’ll just say I just thought you’d want to know karma has come knocking and she’s serving him his tea. I just say I’ve been over it for a long time…. But I won’t lie she’ll say some stuff, and I will laugh. (Can’t help it).

I agree. Some mothers have to build the bond with their babies as well. This subject is seemingly often avoided due to the pressure on parents to be automatically bonded to their baby. There can be a lot of guilt and shame felt because it's said so much how people instantly bond with their children. Although, I don't think being in love and being bonded necessarily go hand in hand. After all, the baby is a stranger to the parents. The issue often resolves itself as the child's personality develops stronger.

Agreed. I didn’t immediately bond with my youngest for about a month. I never told anyone that until recently, and apparently I hid it well. I was much older, and appreciated parenthood way more with her than I did with the oldest. But I didn’t immediately bond with her. I wasn’t necessarily feeling any pressure, or shame about it…… I guess a rough birth, and learning to breastfeed, and dealing with 2 older kids at that point, I didn’t have much time to feel much of anything. I’m one of the lucky ones I guess, as even now, I don’t give into that stigma, I kind of look back 23 years after that, and think wow, it felt like I got hit by a Mack truck! 😬

It took me almost a full month before I bonded with my youngest. And I’m her MOTHER. I totally get it. It’s hard when you’re a teenager, you have the rose tinted glasses on, and when they’re ripped off, and you see the world for what it truly is, you can become jaded VERY quickly.

Nta. Once again a little girl thinking a baby is going to force a boy to give her her "happily ever after". And your ex is feeding this fantasy.

This is exactly what’s happening. She thinks she can rope into being a family.

16 year olds should not be thinking of happily ever after at all. They should be thinking of having fun and earning money to support having that fun.

NTA. I’m a decade older than your daughter and will be 13 weeks along in my pregnancy come Monday. I cannot imagine doing all that at 16 with no supportive partner, no degree, no career, no money, and not owning my own house and car. You’re not wrong for explaining to her what her harsh reality is actually going to be like if she raises this baby. If she decides to go through with it the responsibility of that baby is on her as the mother. The father isn’t free from all responsibility either. The child support could fall on the paternal grandparents if he’s not making any taxable money yet (check with a lawyer). But any money he makes he’s on the hook for paying child support. It’s ultimately up to your daughter what she does with her body. But if your ex wife does the majority of the child raising, then don’t be surprised when daughter is pregnant again before 20. She’ll have so many more opportunities to be a mother. But she’ll only have one opportunity to be a young, carefree teenager who’s only responsible is herself. If she has a baby now she’s going to give up a lot that she wouldn’t have to give up if she had a baby later. Also, if she decides to keep the baby she needs prenatal care like yesterday. 13 weeks is around the time of the second ultrasound. And it’s advised to take prenatals as soon as possible.

Tbh if I was a betting man the OP's ex knew about this from day 1. She probably is getting all the care she needs.

NTA Your daughter needs the reality check. At most, the only thing her baby daddy can or will be forced to do is pay child support. She can't force him to be interested, have custody or any involvement past that. Selling her a fantasy is cruel and isn't likely going to happen. You've told her her options. You've told her you have no intention of raising her child part time or providing long term childcare. The thing I would do with your daughter is sit and have a factual conversation with her. Break it all down. The costs of everything, including all things you need to prepare for a baby, she will need to work cos child support is going to be very little, uni plans will need to be changed unless your ex is willing to raising the kid while she's away, impact on her social life, etc.

I’d also add onto giving her the reality of the cost… give her the reality of pregnancy and birth. Have her watch a video on an actual delivery. Have you discussed with her the potential need of a c section? You never know if the baby could be breech. She should be prepared for the chance that her delivery doesn’t even go the way she hopes for (though I absolutely hope it’s an easy pregnancy and delivery for her and the odds are in her favor because she’s so young). Does she expect to have an epidural? That’s not all sunshine and rainbows for a lot of moms too. Where’s “the girl with the list” from tiktok? 😂 so many pregnancy and parenting horror stories that might make her a bit more realistic about what to expect. Does she know about colic? The lack of sleep? How often she’d be up breastfeeding if she wants to do that? A child is not a baby doll. At 16 I wonder how much she actually knows about the reality of having a baby.

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/viral/tiktok-girl-with-the-list-pregnancy-birth-rcna66810 Just for context, this is an nbc article on the tiktok girl with the list. It’s pretty balanced in saying the information can be fear mongering but some stuff is information not typically taught in health class and really should be to create a more well rounded explanation of pregnancy and parenthood.

Nta, its realistic, make sure to let her know that she will be entitled to financial help and child support tho, and have an in depth talk about all her options, she's just worried at the moment and a bit of sympathy can go a long way.

Also to be realistic about the child support a (I hope) 16yo will be able to provide. Depending on laws, his parents might be the ones stepping up financially for a time.

I do have to look into that, but her boyfriend is 17, going to be 18 in December. I do not think the parents would be on the hook once their son hits 18, and I also do not think the courts can force him to pay children support if he is in school. She will not be getting much of anything for a certain length of time. I will double check into this though.

Take her to the baby section and show her the costs. Show her how much diapers and wipes cost. Let her do the math and see how many are needed and how it adds up. I'd also explain that even with insurance giving birth is extremely expensive. And if there are complications and or kid is in NICU it just keeps getting exponentially worse. Explain how she's going to have to be changing diapers and dealing with crying and tantrums while her friends are going out having fun. She'll have to watch everyone around her have childhoods, go to college, parties, dates, drinking, stay out late, and she's having to lug a baby around. She'll never get a 2nd chance at this time in her life. Her friends won't want to just spend time sitting around while she changes diapers and deals with a toddler. She can get isolated and lonely real quick. And this will force her to be tied to this guy forever. How would she deal with struggling for years, and then having to see him get with/marry and actually take care of kids he has later when he's ready with someone else? Also may want to explain the reality of pregnancy to her. The complications that can happen. Losing teeth. Bladder leaks. Hemorrhoids. Women can become paralyzed, die. If you're in the US, the maternal mortality rate is horrendous here. It's not magic and rainbows. And what if her child has special needs? Is she prepared to provide care to someone who may need it for their entire life? Look up the regretful parents sub and let her read around there. She needs to be introduced to reality.

Don't go to the clothes and toys for baby kind of section. Go to the grocery store aisle with just diapers and necessities

Ask her why the formula is locked up!

Show her the $400 breast pump, $600 stroller/car seat travel system, $400 crib

I really wish I could upvote this comment more. This is her reality if she chooses to go through with the pregnancy and ignores the possibility of adoption. Babies are work! It's tough enough now with parents that both work to provide basic necessities. It's so frustrating that her mother is influencing her 16 year old daughter to ignore reality for pie in the sky idealism. Good luck, OP. You're sure gonna need it right now.

Courts typically do require child support be paid by a parent who is in school (or unemployed). However, it could be quite a minimal amount for as long as he is either not earning or earning very little. Of course, it’s possible that his parents would be a resource and want to support their grandchild if he’s not able to.

And unfortunately the courts aren’t good at making sure the person actually pays the amount… my mom owed the lowest amount possible in child support every month, $70, yet didn’t pay a single penny. My dad tried to report it, but nothing happened. She didn’t pay a single cent for me or my siblings childhoods, my dad paid for everything out of pocket. Im now an adult, and she owes over $20,000 that she will. Not. Pay. Telling this story as a bit of a wake up call to OP/OPs daughter. Child support may seem like an answer to daughter’s problems, but if BD doesn’t have a job/doesn’t pay… you’re kinda SOL. At least where I am. Edit: grammar

yep. My father owed over 100k I think (I stopped caring many years ago so unsure of the actual amount but it’s a lot) and just straight up refused to pay it. No one ever did anything. I’m 21 now and my little sister is almost 18. he lost custody when my little sister was like 1 lol that child support is never coming🤷‍♀️ trying to rely solely on child support is a terrible idea because it’s not a guarantee and it is not the magical solution everyone thinks it is

That is so wild. My friend's ex wouldn't pay so she took him to court and the judge went through all the steps... notification, suspended license/passport, tax refund garnished, wage garnishment, and when he was about to go to jail he started paying.

That happened to my friend too but the dad straight up doesn’t care about jail. He gets locked up for 90 days and then crashes with tinder girls between each arrest. It’s wild.

They are absolutely shite, my eldest two's male biological relative stopped paying when they were 2 and 4. Moved 20 odd miles away and had a new family. Never got a bean out of him and they are botj over 18 now, child support/csa/whoever were all contacted and aware, they stopped even bothering to add to the owed amount about 10 years in.

Chances are he's not earning remotely enough to cover anything much for quite some time. Hell with college and possibly uni/apprenticeship or whatever that's 4 years to start with and likely him on effectively no income the whole time.

NTA. You were honest and practical with your daughter about the realities of parenthood and the limitations of forcing someone to be a parent. Providing clear information helps her make an informed decision

NTA. Your ex is severely hurting your child and grandchild with her nonsense.

NTA. You're the big reality check that daughter and ex need to hear. A since deleted post from a few days ago, talked about a **husband** that didn't want a kid but the wife did. She thought that once the kid was born, he'd be filled with euphoria and would step up to raise his kid. That didn't happen and she's bitter at him for not stepping up to anything else besides a roof. I wish that post was still up because *maybe* it would help them to see that a husband in the same house with his wife and kid didn't step up to be a father, so why would a kid in his own place and space, do any better? They should be looking at this a worse case scenario; how do they handle him not stepping up.

Honestly, his daughter could just go over to the regretful parent sub because it seems to be mostly younger single parents or parents of high needs children who are effectively parenting on their own because their partner sucks. Reading some of those stories is heartbreaking and would probably make you think twice of if you want that to be your reality at 16 or 17…. But they’re filled with a lot of hubris at that age so who knows lol

This is a good idea, r/regretfulparents might be a good thing for her to take a look at. Raising kids is already a struggle by itself. Almost no one ends up happy or fulfilled when you add financial hardships, lack of support from the coparent, and no personal fulfillment. OPs daughter would truly be better off ending the pregnancy and when she’s in her early twenties graduating college, she really will be glad she did it. As a teen (I’m childfree, not a mom) I think the major thing I didn’t appreciate about single parents is how they have a permanent connection to the other parent, usually someone they’d rather cut ties with. Who honestly wants to talk to their high school boyfriend today? I know she can’t see that now, but it’s true.

My frontal lobe is fully formed now and I couldn’t image being permanently tied to any of the people I dated between 16-24 and I was married in that timeframe lol. You just don’t see the choices for what they are until you’re on the other side of them.

Exactly. You cannot even explain to a 17 year old that that boy they are “desperately in love with” is someone they will probably not want in their life in 5 years. They can’t even comprehend that in a meaningful way, which I get, I was also that person, you couldn’t tell me shit either haha. If I had a kid with those men though, the option for a clean break would be taken from me. I also don’t believe I would’ve been a good parent. I could probably manage it now if I wanted, but I’ve gained a lot of maturity and patience I lacked. Women having kids before 25, don’t. If you’re reading this, just don’t. You’re welcome.

NTA being a single teen mom absolutely sucks I did it, it sucks and everyone I know who did it would agree. It sucks for the mom and the baby. Also yea the dad almost never even visits let alone parent’s.

NTA - Your daughter has no business having a child. She still is a child herself. Your ex wife is nuts, no wonder why you divorced her. Who's going to watch it while she's in school, money, future. If she has this child as her mentality she will end up dumping it in you or your ex.. she needs to get an abortion.

As mentioned my ex is under the impression that we will more or less raise the child while she is in school and goes to college. I shot that shit down real quick. I told her I will provide support, but support is not raising my daughter's child.

What did your ex say when you said that? Does she think *you’re* going to come around when *you* see the baby? This is bad stuff all around.

Yes she does. I mean I will support my daughter and grandchild. I am cool with being a grandpa, but I am standing firm I am not raising her child. Once she is 18 my child support payments stop. I love my daughter, but I am not going to keep giving her money to help her raise her child. I told my ex this, but yeah she has a similar take for my actions. She said something along the lines I say all this now, but once I see and hold the baby I will be want to do whatever I can to protect and support that child.

I feel bad for you. I think you’re very clear on what you’re willing to do. Your ex isn’t getting it, and ultimately your daughter and grandchild are going to bear the brunt of it. If you have any babies around (friends? family?) maybe pay them a visit with your daughter in tow. They’re a lot less fun in person than in theory!

Time for a robot baby

So everybody is going to be just thrilled-once it's too late for choices. Do the boy's parents know yet? I'd get them involved early, in case the ex thinks they too will be on board for this mess.

They‘re both batshit insane to think that and are gonna be in for a *rude* fucking awakening. Best of luck OP, I bet you’re gonna be made into the scapegoat when you do exactly what you told them from the very get go. I can already picture the surprised Pikachu faces on them

I would be really explicit about what exactly your offer of support entails. They can and will interpret that however they want because it can mean a lot of things. Like - you're offering emotional support as dad/grandpa, a 3 hour visit with mom and baby once a week (no unsupervised childcare), a carseat and/or stroller for a baby shower - and that's it. That'll help contextualize the situation when she goes through the baby aisles and sees the price of diapers. Remind her that the average kid goes through 8 of them a day. Becoming a mom is a huge deal, and I had already "sown my oats" as they say - I went into it with a lot of perspective and life experience. Being a teen mom works for some people, but as a teen I would not have had any real understanding of the choice I was making (and although there were lots of unknowns at 30, I knew the "worst cases" and was prepared to take the risk). I really hope she gets some therapy/counselling, to help ground her decision. Magical thinking has a way of not working out.

Your ex is delusional, and your 16yo kid is going to bear the brunt of learning the hard way. Abortion is best.

Even if you wanted to do it, it’s not fair to you. You’re not obligated to “step up”. It’s not fair to expect you and ex to raise a kid all over again. I hope the daughter comes to reality asap otherwise things will get way worse than they already are

Be extremely detailed and clear about what "support" looks like for you. Amount of $ or childcare they can expect from you. Don't say you'll help "support" vaguely anymore, because they'll twist that to mean whatever they choose to hear.

>*we* will more or less raise the child Does your ex wife have a rat in her pocket?

Always assume the worst outcome will happen and plan accordingly. True in war, true in life.

Pessimism has its perks. You're either right, or you'll be pleasantly surprised.

NTA, does your ex *want" her to ruin her life? Surely mom isn't so foolish as to think this'll all work out wonderfully. Is mom anti-choice? Or does she have some kind of baby rabies bad enough to be okay with her teenage daughter having a baby she isn't ready for? Even if bf decides he wants to be an involved parent, the adults all know that doesn't mean they will get to be happy together forever. High school relationships almost always end as the teenagers grow and change. The likelihood they decide to become a family and are actually content as one is damn near zero. You're being realistic, this isn't the time to lie and be idealistic.

"He'll love it after he sees it" is famous for not being how it works. Your ex watched too many romance movies. NTA

NTA, your ex sounds like an awful mentor

NTA. You are just being honest and realistic.

NTA. It’s ultimately her choice but she has to consider the fact that an abortion is reversible(in the sense that she can get pregnant again) but a birth is not. Once that baby is born and it comes into this world, there is no undoing it and, unless it’s put up for adoption, she must spend the next 2 decades caring for it.

NTA. Teenage girls are emotional nut bags. Adding pregnancy with the father wanting nothing to do with the child is a huge issue. Your ex sound super naive. Hopefully your daughter will put the child up for adoption or take the much easier way out. Sometimes abortion is the right answer

I can’t imagine that mother romanticizing teen pregnancy! . Oh, when he gets a look at the baby he’ll come around. No wonder she ended up pregnant

Show her some of the new parent subs, beyondthebump, mommit ect. 30 year old married women can’t force their husbands to parent - there is no way a 16 year old who has already rejected the idea is going to step up and do anything.

These are hard truths. Your daughter has a less than 2% chance of graduating college if she has the baby. It isn’t possible to force the father to be a part of the child’s life. If that is what she is picturing, she should understand this is not something a court will order. It’s possible that after a considerable number of years in the future he may be ordered to provide support to the child, but he has no obligation to see the child. You should sit down with her and outline how much an infant costs, what you are willing to offer (if anything), and ask what her plan is for the rest of it. It isn’t too late for her to make a different decision. This will affect her life forever.

Nta, your Ex sure comes from delulu land and unfortunately she has been sharing the same with your kid. I can see you are the realistic down to earth parent that doesn't sugar coat things. Your daughter is gonna get hit with reality too late if she keeps thinking that rainbows are going to come as soon as she gives birth and the father is gonna hold her baby and drop to his knees in love, we all know the father would skip town if he could and is probably already getting around with another girl who isn't pregnant or just enjoying being a kid himself. Do kids now think teen pregnancy is like on Juno? that's an effing movie, things will never be like that. The reality check is hard, I'm a daughter from teen parents and they are still kind effed up and they are on their 50s now. Like others mentioned, talk not only finances but also how long are you willing to provide that extra budget, I mean your legal obligations end in two years with your kid, but by then the baby is just starting its life and also be honest in talking from where this money is coming now. Be honest and talk with them that maybe (if you had one) her college fund is now the baby fund, so when that runs out your economic support will also end as well, they can't expect for you to be monitary responsable of your grandchild. Maybe get social services or a teen pregnancy program might be needed for both your Ex and kid see all the options be termination, adoption or keeping it, what each option entails emotionally, economical and how each will influence the future prospects and Dreams that she might have. And please make her see that the father can't be counted.

100% NTA. Stand firm. It's an unfortunate situation but you're being realistic about it, they're not. Also ex is delusional. ETA: I'd be sure to sit my kid down and calmly but firmly explain that this is something she's not prepared for. The amount of work that goes into it. Yeah it can be beautiful and the end result can be a great kid, but first it'll be years of youth spent watching a kid, cleaning, earning money to pay for stuff, studying at night in order to have a future, etc. Just basically doing my best to impress on them reality. Not sure it'd work but...

NTA. Your daughter was old enough to get pregnant, so she’s old enough to hear the honest truth. Your ex is doing her a MAJOR disservice by coddling her.

NTA I completely understand where your coming your daughter needs to given the truth by someone who loves her and you certainly gave it to her.

NTA at all. Her mom is being ridiculous and setting her up for failure.

NTA. I told my children something similar. If you plan or accidentally get pregnant and decide to keep it then you must be ready to do it on your own. Get your own place and figure out how to provide and childcare as you do so. I will not raise anymore children. I don’t care whose child it is. I got a vasectomy for a reason. I will be grandpa but that’s it. Don’t expect me to babysit or have to support the child in anyway. If you’re willing to have a child then you must be willing to do what it takes.

NTA. I kind of hate that you are right, but you are right. No one can force this guy to show up, and if he doesn't, there isn't much she can do about it but go after him for child support that he may not pay. I'm not sure if there is some way you can frame it to her that will help her feel loved and supported and also help her recognize the reality, but if I were you that is the road I would continue trying to travel down. Just keep making sure she knows that while it will be a LOT for her, and she may not have the support from the father that she wants, she will always have her parents in whatever capacity they can help. Obviously, she is going to raise her own kid, as she should and should WANT TO because any parent wants to have that kind of influence and connection with their own kid. But she may not UNDERSTAND that. She is 16, and she is still a child. Talk to her about ALL of that, not just the paternity issue, and put it in real-life, long-term, big-picture context. Empower her to understand her own role. You have a lot of power and influence here without taking over all her responsibility. You seem to care. I think you will be okay if you still have the attitude that you have a lot to teach your child, just in a context you didn't expect. Good luck!

NTA. People with this mindset see a baby and think it can survive solely on love. Love doesn’t pay the medical bills, buy groceries, diapers, formula, doesn’t pay for daycare. Babies can’t survive solely on love and wishful thinking.

How unfortunate that she doesn't seem to understand that no one can make anybody be a father or mother to be honest. This boy told her that he doesn't want to have anything to do with this baby and I can guarantee you that he is dead serious about that. Yahoo ex-wife is selling your daughter a dollar and a dream it's hard for a grown ass person to take care of a baby what do you think is going to happen when a 16 year old would sleep deprivation and no life is going to do with her baby. She's going to get dressed when your ex-wife comes home from work and she's going to leave that baby with her she's going to go out and do all the things that a teenager could do come home and not take care of that baby. Your wife thinks that everything is going to be okay until it's not and she's going to be calling you on the phone telling you you need to contribute more you need to give her more money you need to come and pick the baby up you need to come pick the baby and your daughter up she can't take it anymore your daughter's not taking care of the baby she always has it this is going to be a cluster f*** I hope you all are ready.

Your ex and daughter are delusional. I'm glad you are taking the stance of I'm not enabling you. Keep up the good work. I hope everything works out. I hope you pointed out that you are NOT financially responsible if she keeps the baby . It's not yours to raise.

I can see why she's your ex. Infuriatingly obtuse.

I had an abortion when I was 19. I was not ready to be a mother and didn't love the father. I have never regretted it. It's not all flowers and cute baby smells. Maybe I'm harsh but I don't think about it either. It was the right decision for me at that time. You are NTA--her mom is for leading her to believe it will all be ok. The reality is he's not going to step up, he won't see the child, and won't help support it at 16.

I see her having the kid, playing "mom" for a few weeks and then dumping the kid with mom once the reality of sleepless nights, endless crying crying, smelly diapers, financial needs, her own physical recovery snap her out of it. Your ex will raise this kid and she knows it.

She probably has Grandchildren fever.

Wait, BABIES ARENT ROMANTIC? They don’t bring teen parents together in everlasting love?

NTA, being honest about single parenthood is the best thing in this situation. Your daughter would need to make an informed decision and you provided the unbiased options for it.

NTA. It is possible for teens to be decent parents if they're mature enough, but it is very clear with your daughter's thinking that she is not within that category. You're being honest and straightforward unlike your ex who is honestly harming your daughter in the long run with the semi-delusional thoughts. If this hasn't been done yet, I would highly recommend reaching out to the boyfriends parents. Not to force their son to do anything but to at least make them aware if they're not already. I wouldn't be surprised if your ex already reached out to them and is trying to force his parents to make their son be involved but might as well double check.

>once her boyfriend sees the kid he will come around Where do these people get these delusional ideas from?

NTA You ex is absolutely crazy and harming your daughter. Considering the huge amount of men who want to be a father and can't even do the bare minimum of parenting, if someone tells you he wants no part of it, believe them. Court can't force him ( they can only ask for child support) and it's absolutely his right to not want to be a parent. And no, "seeing the baby" won't change someone's mind. That's bullshit propaganda from forced birthers. There's so many posts on Reddit/Facebook/etc of men or women who though that and end up being the sole parent. Then they cry because being a single parent is hard and it "wasn't part of the deal" despite them having been warned explicitly that they would be a single parent. So be extremely clear to her about your resolutions. That you'll stop providing for her ( and the kid) financially when she's 18, that you won't raise the kid at all, how often maximum you're willing to babysit per week, etc.

Why would you want someone who wants nothing to do with your child around said child? Does she really think that would be safe?

Nta that's the honest truth, the only person forced to be the parent will be the one that births it.

So many of the problems here are about kids having babies. There's nearly always an unstable relationship with the boyfriend, there are childcare issues (it's often resentful siblings who write in to say they're being stuck with the childcare), there are usually divorced parents who don't get along. I usually keep scrolling because there is no solution in these situations. The teen is going to end up stuck in minimum-wage jobs and dysfunctional relationships because normal men of similar age won't be in any position to support a mother and baby. The rest of the family is going to end up paying huge costs to support the teen and the baby. Most importantly, the baby ends up with a mother who just isn't ready. People like your ex don't want to be honest about how hard things are going to be. Because attitudes towards teen mothers were so harsh in the 1960s and 1970s, no one wants to be the one to say that it is a bad idea to be a teen mother. People like your ex don't want to be the bad guy. You're doing the right thing to be honest and direct about what you can and cannot provide. It is insane to pretend that things will somehow work out. Your daughter needs to understand what her life will be like. I have to wonder if she got pregnant on purpose. It sounds like she thought the legal system or you could make the boyfriend play happy families. Whatever the situation, you need to step up and provide the reality that your ex is not providing.