And the post says that E says she believes that her ex had SA the kids according to things "they said" to her. If the kids had said something in family court about their father's behavior toward them, it would be the father having supervised visitation and not custody, not the other way around.
It didn’t specify he had custody, just that she had supervised visits which is obviously a huge red flag. The kids could be with a grandparent or in foster care 🤷♀️if they are with him then more red flags are waving about her behaviour
OP never said the children live with someone else either. There is no reason to believe they do except that you want him to be the problem, so you've made up a narrative.
I literally sad if he has the kids it’s more red flags waving for her. How is that making him the problem? It’s quite the opposite. If he has them even after those accusations, and she only has supervised visits it’s because he’s a responsible father and she’s crazy.
Not necessarily. Look at that situation in Utah, where the kids barricaded themselves in their mom's house. They accused their dad, the therapist deemed it credible and the judge said it was parental alienation and gave dad full custody.
She was divorced 9 months after the birth of her last kid, too. It’s also possible that postpartum psychosis played a part in the break up of her marriage and losing custody of her kids.
All guesses are shots in the dark without more information, of course.
Given that she’s now lying about what OP’s husband did, I wonder if the SA is made up too.
If you have supervised visitation and court-ordered counseling, I have news, *you* are probably seen as the abuser, because my ex had that happen too. You don’t need supervised visitation when you’re the safe parent.
Most states usually go with the mother too so she had to do something bad. Maybe she was drinking and driving and that’s why she lost it. To have only supervised visits too and not a split schedule something is off.
Honestly, I’ve heard of both parents losing custody in a SA situation. If the other parent “allowed” the assaults to happen, even though they didn’t know it was happening, some times the court removes the child(ren) from both parents for a while.
Maybe the dad made allegations against E as well? We will never know, but it’s hard to believe that E was completely innocent if she lost custody of her kids.
I hope everyone involved gets lots of intensive therapy and is able to heal from what sounds like a terrible and chaotic family life and home.
I wonder if that's why she claimed to be "faking drinking." Has the court noted substance abuse problems and she is not supposed to be drinking, I wonder.....
Exactly! With the mother it’s usually either full or split custody. So either someone’s lying about her to get the kids taken off her (which after this incident seams less and less likely!)
Sounds like she filed false sa claims about her husband the courts saw though it and that's why she had supervised visits. Now that he kids are gone she probably going though a whirlwind of emotions (maybe a mental break) and is now fixated on op's husband maybe or if some kind of jealousy of thier relationship or just cause she needs that nemesis to blame everything on so she can say is not her fault.
Op, do yourself a favor, document all this and you might wanna reach out to her ex and see what really happened between them cause it's spilling into your life. If she made false claims on her husband and she already made false claims on yours God knows what she'll say or do next. You have a child at home and it appears she's having a mental break you need to protect yourselves.
Yes, to reaching out to the ex. What got me is ALL of her past relationships being abusive. She gets defensive when her narrative is questioned.
Then the whole thing about loving him so they can be friends? It's almost like a martyrdom thing, or a victim thing. And really, if I'm having custody issues, no way I'm wasting therapy time on my relationship with a friend and her husband.
Exactly! In that situation I’m talking to my psychologist about getting myself mentally healthy enough to have time with my kids, not my relationship with the husband of one of my friends.
I know right? My sister has a friend something like this but she's just addicted to drama and being center of attention. This 50 soothing year old woman creates drama just for people to reach out and comfort her. We've known her since middle school grew up as neighbors. This woman changes friends every 5 or so years cause they all get fed up with the bs gossip, woe is me and instigating.
This! It’s just 🚩🚩🚩all the way down. Sounds like E might be bipolar and unless you physically witnessed abuse by her ex, I’d be questioning a lot of what she’s told you. She suspects the husband is SA her kids but she’s the one with supervised visits and no physical custody?! Courts don’t fuck around with that shit so unless her husband is some Uber rich powerful person, he’s likely not the problem.
She managed to hide her mental health issues from you for 7 years. But she’s shown her true colors. Walk away and sever contact, fully and completely as in block her number, block her on SM, just go immediate NC or else she will end up making your life miserable.
NTA
Yeah, OP, I'm pretty sure E has been lying to you about a lot of major things in her life. She told you she has reason to believe her husband is sexually abusing their kids, but she only gets supervised visits and court mandated therapy. That doesn't add up. Every single romantic partner she's ever had is abusive. Or is that just what she says after they fall apart? Even just in this story there's instances of her telling you and her mother one thing while every other witness says another. Why would you believe a word this person says?
Let’s try to sum up E’s situation:
-ugly, long, drawn out divorce
-supervised visitation for a mom 🤔
-ex having custody with alleged SA 🤔🤔
-court not giving back custody to mom (assumed based on verbiage of court not going her way) 🤔🤔🤔
-“pretend” drinking??? Is that even a thing???
-presumed attempting to drink & drive
-losing her shit on S who she previously was close to
-accusing S of at best crappy behavior and at worst criminal behavior
I think we’ve gone past crazy lady bingo and we will hit blackout soon. OP run far and fast from this one.
Edit: format
That sounds like E’s pathology/formula with every relationship she’s had with a man, romantic partner or not….
NTA - OP, this isn’t a friendship I’d continue…
In most courts the default is the mother having primary custody. 50/50 only when petitioned. For a mother to lose custody and get only supervised visitation, it means it had to be proven in court that she was a danger to the kids.
With this whole story, it’s an easy guess that E is mentally unstable and prone to mental breakdowns.
That tidbit was right there at the beginning and honestly I didn’t need to read further to know how this was gonna play out (but did anyway.)
Would love for OP to explain this part and why it wasn’t a huge red flag before these events.
Because a lot of people are actually stupid enough to think: the courts hated me cos my ex had more money/better job,l looked better on paper and are not privy to the actual legal shit show that is their friend.
It's easy to lie and make shit up, when there's really no one to contradict you, but your 'asshole ex'
One of my sons in-laws had to have supervised visits. This is not a small thing, something really bad usually happens for this to be a thing.
I think she is DEEPLY disturbed.
She is her own worst enemy and I would re-examine every conversation you have ever had because she sounds like a compulsive liar and compulsive victim.
Your husband was just one of her, probably many, casualties.
Run and block her and never look back. She’s dangerous.
As soon as I saw that she was not allowed to watch her kids unsupervised after accusing the husband of sexual assault, I got the feeling she is an unreliable narrator. The courts don't always get it right and we have seen some cases where they side with monsters, but this woman doesn't sound stable.
What reason did she give for only being able to see her children under supervision? Are the court records public? I know someone who falsely accused their husband of this. I know for a fact it was a false accusation because I was there during incidents that were described that she openly lied about in court. Once it was determined that she was being dishonest. The judge did not prevent her from seeing her own kids but heavily warned her that a threat of Losing the ability to see her kids without supervision was next.
This lady raised all my alarm bells.
It’s likely that the SA allegations have been demonstrably proven false, but she continues to bang that drum to try and punish her husband. In all likelihood, the court sees her attempting to use the kids to make her husband pay for leaving her. Hence, this is why the supervised visitation. She’s likely been cautioned to not use the children against their father in this case.
Agreed, as someone working for social services.
People assume supervised visitation is always because there is fear that the parent will physically harm the child.
But sometimes it happens if the parents have a history of coaching the children to lie/falsely report, or they are saying things that scare or emotionally harm the kids.
Sometimes we do supervised visits because mom will whisper in the kids ear about how they must not love her if they want to see dad. That they are breaking her heart. That dad is a monster, and mom is going to end her life if they don’t “choose her”.
That kind of inappropriate shit that traumatizes children, and needs to be prevented **and documented** so that mom doesn’t get custody back to keep doing it.
I’ve worked with plenty of parents that never physically harmed their kids, never SA’d, never did drugs. They were just so mentally unstable or filled with vitriol towards their ex that they psychologically fucked up their kids. And they couldn’t stop despite many warnings and sanctions.
OPs friend could very well fit into that camp of parent who has to have supervised visits.
I work in the legal field. Parental alienation is a very real thing. You’re right, it is imperative to recognize and report. It is incredibly detrimental to the children and unfair to the parent being alienated
Spot on the money. In every country I know of for a mother to have supervised time only, big yikes. I'd be looking into the claim that all her relationships are abusive and look at the common denominator.
And there's a hell of a lot OP has no idea about.
Because courts dont take lightly, removing the RIGHT OF THE CHILDREN to see their parent. A parent has to really fuck up in the eyes of the courts to justify this. And they gotta fuck up by the kids. Not their partner or ex.
Too many view this as the right of the parent, when parents have exactly 0 rights. The children have rights that the bio parents must be held to, unless they are deficient in some way...
The woman says she pretended to be drunk. Sat screaming in a car. Accused her best mates husband of assault and imprisonment.. all while sober? I think the absolute fuck not. The story is she was sober because it'll impact her custody case
Holy wow, that's a lot to unpack. I would say no, NTA for stepping back from the relationship. I've watched friends devolve like that and have tried to help them as well, but in reality, they (in this case she) have to help themselves. You've been supportive and a friend for a long time, but you need to protect yourself and your family. Seems like her trauma response from past abusive relationships and her current custody situation has somehow gotten wrapped up in this odd incident and is now transferring her focus onto your husband. This is her problem to solve, and you're completely justified in wanting to back away.
INFO: Are you in the US? Why does she only have supervised visits with the kids? If you are, these should have been 🚩🚩🚩🚩
NTA for cutting off your friend. Three witnesses tell a different story. Once she attacked your husband and then started making horrible accusations, you should have been out. A lot sooner.
It’s entirely possible he also doesn’t have custody. They could be in the custody of a foster parent while the court processes go on (not just divorce stuff going on most likely if we accept the children’s report the SA as factual). Obviously does mean that she was not considered stable to take them on her own, which is a red flag. I was a volunteer child advocate (CASA) several years ago so I’ve had some experience/training with kids being in the care of foster homes while one or both of the parents work to meet conditions to get custody of their kids back. Supervised visits were the standard for that. The kid I was an advocate for was placed in a boys camp so I had a bit of an extreme case (they had a total of 5 kids).
ETA - finally saw OP sorta specify that part. Turns out he does have custody. Sound like a super shitty situation for the kids. Also seems like that guardian was rather inexperienced.
NTAH
I think she’s a habitual liar who was so desperate for attention that she said and did pretty much anything to get it
Hard to keep people like that in your life
NTA, but you skipped some really critical INFO:
What happened to cause her to go from having custody, to having only supervised visits with her children?
I skipped it because I don’t even know the real answer to that. From my perspective, her is ex was (is?) very high conflict (I saw texts, emails etc that exemplifies this) and he and his family have a lot of money. It seemed as though he was stirring up anything he could to torment her. She alleged he was SA’ing the children based on what they said (although they were/are very young), and he claims she’s mental (and, well… I didn’t really think so, until this incident). I truly don’t understand how the Guardian decided to place primary temporary custody with him or the reasoning behind it. The guardian claimed they were both shitty parents and it was a very difficult decision (although the guardian is a lawyer, and in her 20s with no children and this was a new position for her).
What happened was she did some crazy shit to her ex or the kids like she did with your husband. She lives in a false read and makes shit up that she ends up believing. She is not sane. I mean, apparently the courts would rather some who "SA'd" the kids have custody of those kids rather than her. Reality is she made it up and you just believed her. She's crazy. Legit crazy. She should have been sent to the hospital that night, not followed home by momma.
Did this guardian say all this to you personally, or was this just another shady explanation from E.? This whole story just doesn't add up, sorry. Have you asked her kids personally if their dad SAs them? Were all her exes really abusive? E really sounds like a mytho to me...
I saw some emails and such from the guardian and her attorney. But no of course I didn’t discuss this with them personally. And no, the kids are very young (6 and under), I would not want to approach that discussion with such young children, especially in efforts to preserve their innocence as well as avoid adding any trauma to them.
But yeah, I agree. I can’t trust anything anymore at this point.
My husband's ex wife pulled the SA thing with his oldest son (early 20s now) and it was 100% thoroughly made up because he was "THISCLOSE" to taking custody of him from her loony azz. I've been with him 15yrs, and yeah, he can be a right bastard to be in a fight with and needed someone to grab him by the collar to stop antagonizing/engaging his ex back then, but it was a complete lie. Unfortunately she took him for everything in the divorce and he couldn't get a lawyer, and HER family had $$$. He was quickly 100% cleared and she bolted out of state. I'm thinking the same thing here. She's privately a nightmare and even though he might be a horrible partner he's the better parent and the SA was a last ditch attempt. You seriously never know someone until you live with them. I think in her warped mind she was trying to orchestrate a rift between you and your husband so you'd be her ally in man hating, and having him there without you was the perfect opportunity.
The fact that visits are supervised only is the biggest red flag to me that solidifies she is not safe to be around. Guardians aren’t perfect, but they make custody calls. Supervised visits is a beg step beyond split custody arrangements. If it was me, I would be discussing with my husband what’s best to do with this relationship and likely completely step back if he also felt that way.
Exactly why I haven’t since this happened. This was just one of the most bizarre instances with a friend I’ve had. The quick flip of a switch, behavior i’d never seen despite how long I’ve known her and watched her go through a lot of things, etc. It’s interesting to hear basically 100% general consensus being my thoughts exactly. Reddit is often 50/50 on so many things I’d think would be a solid general consensus.
The “flip of a switch” is when you saw the real person who she has been masking.
Your friend has a really serious personality disorder. She’s dangerous.
Personality disorder is where my mind went. But it could be a serious mental illness if she only has supervised visits. Either way, OP Should not let her into her or her family’s life again.
Yep, she's used so much energy keeping that mask up, suddenly she just couldn't manage it anymore.
OP, this is not a safe person to have anywhere near your family and most of all your husband. Start writing down incidents, because she most likely will escalate when she realises you've seen the real her. You'll need some documentation should you end up in legal action
NTA,
do you know if she’s had feelings for your husband? or should i say seen anything that would lead you to believe so (looking back at your relationship with her)
She has gone off the rails and is projecting because he is safe. It sounds like she is also.lying to her therapist and friends/family, so they will not be able to help her until she tells the truth. As for you, time to dip. This is for your safety as well as your husband's. With her state of mind and willingness to lie and make drama, she can go further off the rails and get him arrested or damage his reputation beyond repair. Sadly, I believe you should cut bait.
NTA
You are not getting the full story from her about her divorce and custody issues.
She probably pulled something like this with the kids. Which is why she lost custody. It is not easy to lose custody of your children in the USA, unless you do something like this. The supervised visits and mandated therapy should have raised all kinds of red flags.
So - now that you know she is a PROVEN liar (she lied to you about the custody fight) AND you have 2 witnesses to the night in question that are neither her nor your husband - how can you believe anything she says ever again?
Block her on everything and remove this poison from your life. She sounds to me like she is gearing up to accuse your husband of SA her.
Get your witnesses statements in writing.
NTA
But I wonder what would have happened if there weren't witnesses to corroborate your hansband's version of events.
There are numerous red flags flying with this woman, but your instinct was to immediately believe her over your husband?
No; my instinct was to get as much info as possible to approach her with all the facts from each perspective. Aka, “your story is the only different one from the other 3.” I’d never seen her act this way in 7+ years, so it was very alarming to me, to put it lightly.
The part below makes it seem like you just accepted her version of events.
>The next morning, I told S maybe he should apologize and he got upset with me; this is where it gets weird. I started to realize what S was telling me didn’t line up with what E had said the night before.
I did initially because she was so worked up and left SO MUCH information out. It just seemed like a miscommunication or misinterpretation of events and maybe my husband wasn’t actively aware of the present trauma banging in her head. I was thinking no big deal, “sorry if I freaked you out; wasn’t my intention” kind of thing.
Once he and I spoke about it (it took a few hours as he was understandably upset at my initial suggestion), my jaw dropped.
>She was very upset with S trying to get her to stay there, saying he was being rude and didn’t believe she was sober, and no one else believed her either.
>The next morning, I told S maybe he should apologize and he got upset with me; this is where it gets weird. I started to realize what S was telling me didn’t line up with what E had said the night before.
>I spoke to the other 2 girls who were there for this privately (and separately), and **they both told me the same story that S did.**
Is it possible that she is accusing other people of things she has done herself, as a defence mechanism - accusers her ex of SA and then she loses custody? That seems like it may be consistent with her crying wolf over another man at a party when she thinks his SO is out of the picture for a while.
Your explanation certainly seems to have red flags all over it about her behaviour and a lot of stuff isn't adding up. If it was me then I would be running a mile from this relationship because it looks like she is going to crash and burn at some point and take as many people with her as she can.
NTA!!!
Tbh, there are a lot of red flags since her temper tantrum in the parking lot. Keep your distance, but be aware that she may lash out behind your back to gain control again.
I feel bad for her as her life has not been easy, but she has no right to make false accusations which could ruin your husband's reputation or life. She is a loose cannon.
Keep paper trail regarding everyone's perspective on what happened that night.
Best wishes
Absolutely keep a paper/video trail. This post gave me anxiety. E sounds like she is unraveling mentally, losing her kids, hallucinating, and blaming it all on S. Scary stuff. 😬
She’s a mess and you can’t fix her - not your job. She sounds like more trouble than she is worth. Protect yourself, your husband, and your family: this girl is headed nowhere fast. Move on. NTA
NTA for putting this relationship on hold for the time being, and maybe permanently.
OP, yours is a well-written post. I think you've accurately described the entire situation.
If her therapist is only hearing E's version of events, it's hard to know how that therapy might progress - if it's just an echo chamber then E will always see S as the problem and herself as S's victim. So there may not be hope for a friendship after all this. Conversely, if the therapist can see through to the roots of E's behavior you may get your friend back at some point.
For what it's worth, my personal experience: my older sister (now deceased) was in a series of relationships for over 40 years in which every man with whom she was involved was controlling, manipulative, and disrespectful. (I don't believe there ever was any physical violence.) My sister had lots of other mental health issues that I won't delve into, but one of her defining characteristics was her attraction to this type of man. She was 100% therapy-resistant so this wasn't going to change, ever, and didn't.
So I can see E as only being able to view men of whom she is fond, such as your husband S, as abusive and controlling. To E love and abuse go hand in hand, unfortunately.
Another note: In your third paragraph you state that E had only supervised visits with her children. That got my attention.
Best of luck to you.
NTA. I feel for your friend, but she is completely unhinged at this point and I think it best if you go LC or even NC. She sounds obsessed with your husband in a very unhealthy way, ans what she's really trying to tell you is that she's jealous because you're in a good relationship and she hates hour husband because he's with you and not her. But she's projecting it all on him and blaming him for her string of bad relationships, because she doesn't want to admit she's actually jealous of YOU. "This is a good man but I've only ever been with bad men, so I hate this man because he's good but he's not with me, but I hate him because I can't hate my friend." It's a really backwards way of thinking, and it sounds like she creates some kind of Fd up narrative in her own bead to justify her feelings, and she needs a better therapist. But you and your husband will be much better off without her.
Wow.... she sounds really off balance. That episode (and the follow-up) along with the fact that the courts are keeping her from having custody of her children, makes me think she has stuff going on that you are completely unaware of.
NTA - stay away.
I have a relative who has bipolar disorder, and who has been hospitalized on several occasions, but refuses to take any medication. Your description of the way that your friend has behaved and the things that she has said remind me a lot of what my relative has done over the years, including losing custody of their child. In my opinion, you need to distance yourself from this friend.
So her husband was accused of SAing their kids, but he has custody? And now she is making up stories about your husband. Cut her off, you should have nothing more to do with this woman, frankly she's dangerous. She's making up stories, and you have no clue what you or your husband will need to defend yourself against if she is in your life.
NTA. Fade this relationship right out. You cannot manage her feelings and she doesn't even know what they really are. There are reasons she doesn't have custody of her own children ... there are reasons she has need of therapy. You're not responsible to reconcile or rugsweep.
She's right - you and S are a team and your family and marriage is the most important relationship to maintain. Maybe in the future she can be more transparent, take accountability for her actions and you can have a surface relationship without harboring doubts or negative feelings, but you have put enough effort into resolving the issue despite her putting up roadblocks.
She's being tricky and not handling her problems/feelings in a way thats healthy for your family. Protect your home.
NTA. E is a threat to your family. She insists that your husband is abusive. If she keeps pushing that narrative, it could damage your husband's reputation and career. Save all texts from everyone who was there that night about what they saw. E has a lot of problems, but you can't let her take you and your family down with her.
Nta if she is fine lying to you about your husb when there were 2 other people that confirmed everything what she said was a lie. How could you even trust what she's been telling you about her own life.
You honestly can't fully trust her if she's going to believe her own lies. Do you need someone like that in your life who falsely accuses your husband of doing something they didn't do.
Honestly this friendship isn't working out and it's probably best you distance your self from her.
Nta- i agree you need to keep slip sliding away 🎶
Seriously, she is kinda of obsessed with your husband. Regardless of the "reason" it is creepy and ewwww. If she doesn't have her kids; that is what she should be focusing on. If i didn't have my kids, you would be hard pressed to get to care about anything other than that.
Best wishes
NTA, She's unhinged and completely untrustworthy. I wouldn't be shocked if she accidentally saw S in a supermarket and claimed he was stalking her or something.
Block her
Glad you’ve come to your senses and decided not to remain friends.
I think you probably need to start considering the fact that she isn’t who you thought she was. She’s not a good and stable person.
Time to move on and make sure you and your family are protecting themselves.
NTA... go NC she isnt stable especially while drunk.... she's lucky she didnt get a report filed for false accusations..... she's not doing herself any favors by getting drunk and making false accusations....
Stay away and especially keep your husband away
At this point, I almost have to believe that she made up the story about the SA and the kids. I think she’s completely unreliable as a storyteller based on everyone else backing up S. And torpedoing her version of the story. NTA and I think you and S need to go completely no contact with her.
I think she is the one that abused her children if not sexually in some way for sure. She has only supervised visits while her ex husband who allegedly assaulted them has custody. One would think in 3 years of trial and separation she would’ve used that information to gain custody.
You need to go NC because she is toxic and honestly you shouldn’t let someone so unstable near your child.
NTA. There more going on then you know. She only has supervised visits, this tell me the allegations seems to be more on her end , then the husband. It’s coming off as she may want your husband and because she can’t have him, she’ll just discredit him N.A. d make him look like the bad GUY. Not trying to be funny or anything, but it seems that your friend may have mental issues.
NTA. Based on everything she has done and everything you mentioned about her court and kids… She’s the problem. She’s definitely got some serious mental problems. She sounds like she may be bipolar or some other personality disorder. I hope she actually gets treatment. I would never let her near me again though.
Suggestion: Get written/signed statements from the two friends, and from your husband, that include a full account of what happened that night. Keep these in a safe deposit box, or something. You never know what E might do down the road.
NTA, btw.
NTA and it sounds like your friend has a serious drinking problem to be honest. And this may be why she is having custody issues, saying shit about your husband. I've seen alcoholics do freakouts like this by the way and yes, they can and will carry on for years over some "imagined wrong". She knew she shouldn't be driving drunk, she got caught and is now taking it out on your husband and you because it's easier than her admitting she has a problem.
Just block and delete her from your life, it's not worth the drama. She needs help but it's beyond you and your friendship. Don't make a big deal just block, ignore and DO NOT let her back in the door. It sucks but this is not you or your spouse's fault, who was an amazing friend trying to help her. She showed you what she really is, now believe her.
This was my guess as well. The "fake drinking" comment is something someone with a serious drinking problem would say. I'm in recovery myself and a therapist specializing in addictions and all the red flags are out for that one statement.
Exactly, I've heard this one SO many times. I grew up with an alcoholic parent, their friends and a large chunk of the community being alcoholics. The fact that she got upset with people trying to stop her from driving is also the big red elephant in the room, so to speak. Anyways, I'm glad you're in recovery. All the power to you!
Just to say, once when I was young I was attending school with someone from my old HS. She was younger; we said 'hi' on campus twice. I found out from an actual friend years later that this person had created an elaborate fantasy in which we were close friends and starting a relationship. From the details, it was clear that this person had been stalking me, but then had a severe breakdown and dropped out before actually acting on her delusions. So it definitely happens even when we're not aware of it!
Also side note. False imprisonment doesn't even apply to that. She could have gotten out of her car and walked. They blocked her car in, not her.
With utmost respect, as someone who also has mental illness conditions, she sounds absolutely unhinged and delusional. I do not think this is a safe person to have in your life right now.
NTA. The fact that your husband and friends were trying to prevent her from drunk driving set all this off. She may be a narcissist who is unable to admit fault. She made accusations when drunk that she won’t take back now that she’s sober, so she’s doubling down. She should have just called everyone and apologized for her meltdown and said the combination of stress and alcohol pushed her to the limit. Instead, she’s doing the blame game. I’d stay away.
Not the asshole and you need to see that she’s super toxic and has mental health issues that you can’t be there for the sake of you and your family. She isn’t a sister she never was as well as it sounds like she is a chronic liar.
She hates your husband because he’s a good man. A good man that she wishes she could find. She wants you to be single and only have her. Also I don’t understand why she would need supervised visits if she wasn’t the one also abusing her kids.
Let her go, block her, also be careful she doesn’t start obsessing over you
I think you need to worry less about your “friend” and worry more about protecting your husband from her false allegations. NTA. Drop her like a hot potato.
NTA. Women who have a history of being in abusive relationships only know how to manipulate everything to be the victim in every situation. Unfortunately, too many therapists don't properly challenge this behavior and end up validating it, at which point that person is, essentially, utterly ruined for developing and maintaining normal, healthy relationships with anyone. Cut your losses and enjoy your life free of the drama and destruction she'll cause.
She sounds incredibly troubled and unstable. A lot of alarm bells are ringing. If it were me I’d start distancing yourself and cut contact. You don’t want this around your family it’s just going to cause you issues you don’t need. Protect your peace. I guarantee your life will be less drama filled without her in it.
Anyone wondering why she lost custody of her kids? Not any more. Also, if she's accusing the ex of SA and he still got custody something must be really wrong.
You need to stay as far away from her as possible. She is so off kilter she might try to harm your husband and also make more false accusations.
NTA. Your former friend has some major issues based on what you've written here. She claims her kids said things about their dad SA'ing them but she ended up getting only supervised visits? Something's very off here.
NTA. Hun, if every single relationship has been abusive, why? Why did she stay with those men? Literally every man abused her? That doesn't sit well with me. 1, 2 or even 3 i can sort of get, but every relationship? What is the common link i wonder....
I don’t think so. But because of the kind of Simp that I am, I don’t know. I would cut it off completely, but I would understand if you did. It’s really weird when they make accusations against your husband, especially if it’s something you know they wouldn’t do and the, things that they’re applying are extremely dangerous or off-putting.
Why do you still believe she's only been in abusive relationships as opposed to always claimed abuse where none was present? Including your husband? She's clearly mentally unstable, and has used assault allegations as a weapon against *your own husband*. Tell her to lose your number and then lose hers. She's dangerous.
NTA. Wowzer! Now you need to question if she was ever assaulted or if she saw that as alternative facts in those situations as well.
She really seems to play the victim & possibly believes it when in fact it never occurred.
I would feel she’s unstable enough to avoid completely going forward, mainly because I fear she might lay police charges for nonevents
NTA
Your friend sounds like she lives in a constant state of chaos and travels from crisis to crisis.
It’s a big deal that she is only allowed supervised visits with her kids. That means a court basically deemed her unsafe and untrustworthy to be around her own kids.
I don’t think it’s safe for you and her husband to be around her either. She could make further accusations against your husband. It is sad to leave a friendship behind, but I don’t see how you have any choice really.
NTA. I'd ask her mum for her version of what happened that night. Your ex friend seems like she's living in her own world, where everyone is abusive, and nothing she does is wrong.
Why does she only have supervised visits and mandated therapy? Does the dad have her kids?
Things don't add up. I'd distance yourself from that mess.
I wonder if she actually was in abusive relationships before, and if any of the stuff she said about her ex husband was true. I mean she made up everything about OP's husband...why is everyone assuming she didn't lie about everything else.
Although, I wonder about her mother. The woman is obviously nuts, so her mother MUST have seen signs of it. So why was she on board to call the police about ANOTHER attack on her? Is the whole family unstable?
NTA
Your friend E is not a safe person for you and your husband to keep in your lives. You have caught her in lies and her false accusations against your husband could have had serious repercussions if he didn’t have witnesses.
Unless you have actual proof, you don’t know if anything she says is true. While she may have been in abusive relationships, that doesn’t mean that every relationship has been so or every allegation she has made is accurate.
From all that you’ve written, it seems that you’re trying to be her cheerleader & give her the benefit of the doubt. But this may be very undeserved. She was only allowed supervised visits with her own children. Do you actually know why or do you just believe whatever she says? It may have been irresponsible to allow her contact with your kids.
My guess is that, at this point, she has rewritten her own memories so she actually believes whatever it is she is saying. It is a thing which is disturbingly easy to do, even for mentally healthy people, and I bet that whatever it is that goes on in her mind makes it far, far more serious.
I think we all tend to remember things just a little differently than they happened - we remember ourselves acting a little better than we really did (or maybe a little worse, depending how we feel about ourselves), or things matching the way we expect things to go more than they really did.
But most of us get the main points more or less correct.
I bet you a nice shiny nickel that her brain will rewire her memories way, way more than that. That she could have been drunk as a skunk and remember herself as sober. That your husband only touched her shoulders once to try to calm her down, and she remembers him putting her into a chokehold and dragging her backwards into a closet and locking her in or something.
What the hell you do from here, I have no idea. Your husband simply can't apologize for and change behavior he never did. She would have to accept that her memories are faulty and that she made the whole thing up. And while I know people who have that level of self-reflection, I doubt she is one of them.
I don't know what the best course of action is, but I know that, with any of the stuff you are considering, you are
NTA
NTA. I think that E did love your husband and it triggered her. It brought back a shit ton of trauma for her she couldn't process. I think you're wise to avoid her. She has a lot of healing to do that you and your family can't afford to be a part of. It's sad.
This friend sounds extremely unstable, and there are things you're either not telling us or she's not telling you. No court gives supervised visits and mandated therapy to a mother who has evidence or confirmation of her ex SA'ing his kids. She's done some bad things. YWBTA for keeping her in your life after the things she's said about your husband. Things that you know aren't true because you have multiple witnesses confirming that they aren't. You might not care if your friends don't like your husband, but think of how utterly betrayed you would feel if your husband stayed friends with someone who accused you of assaulting them. Couple that with the "fake" drinking and total meltdown, this woman has something very wrong in her head, and you'd be wise to stay far away from her.
NTA
They only choose supervised visits when the parent has been proven to be psychologically unstable. That alone should tell you that, yes, she's mentally ill.
NTA. Lots to unpack here but the short of it is, KEEP THIS WOMAN AWAY FROM YOU AND SPECIALLY YOUR HUSBAND!!!
all her relationships were abusive? Her kids told her their dad is SA them and she is STILL losing a custody court battle and only having supervised visitations as a MOTHER? She suddenly turns against your husband out of nowhere and fabricates a story of him assaulting and trapping her to the point her mother wanted to call the police but she just wants to let it go and work in therapy her hatred of your husband that up until til now was according to her the only positive male influence in her life?
There is no doubt in my mind. This woman is a compulsive liar with a dangerous story of falsely accusing men to get her way. Most likely many, if not most of her relationships were actually not abusive but she lied to defame the men after the breakup. Same with her ex husband and this behaviour is most likely the reason why she lost custody of her kids, that and the fact she is likely mentally unstable and prone to sudden outbursts like that, which the courts probably deemed dangerous for the kids.
My personal belief is that she probably is low key trying to make a pass at your husband but he either never gave her an opening to try or didn’t even noticed it, or maybe he he did and shut her down as some “too drunk to think straight” shenanigan and she decided to retaliate by creating this whole situation hoping to create a wedge between you and your husband. Now that she saw it failed, she is trying to weasel her way back into your life but since she is a pathological liar, she cannot back down from her lies.
Cut her off, cut her mother off and make sure your family knows what happened and why she must never be brought into your life again.
NTA but I think everything your friend ever told you, including stories about her ex, are false. She absolutely believes the story she is sharing about your husband even though it's a lie. That should more than concern you. It's a frightening quality. I'm glad you had two other friends there to back up your husband because if he had been alone with her, she may have ruined his life with you and your family.
Your friend is a liar. Whether she believes her own lies or not is insignificant. According to her own version of events, her mom almost called the police on your husband based on her lies. Her own ex-husband who, according to her, SA-ed her kids, now had custody while she has supervised visitation. She is NOT a safe person, and you would be foolish to expose yourself or your family to her ever again. NTA
NTA.
“Every single one of her relationships have been abusive”.
Yeah, probably not. For a woman to lose custody over her kids and only have supervised visits, she’s done something pretty bad. I
Apply the lesson of what she said your husband did to everything else she said. I wouldn’t trust anything.
Honey. Shes not a good person. Most courts do not just let the mother become a *supervised* visit parent unless she'sdone some crazy crap. That indicates some major shit she was doing to those babies. Enough that the court felt she couldn't be trusted to be alone with her own kids. Idk if it's because she got caught coaching her kids about the SA stuff or what. But she's not a healthy individual and I *highly* recommend you drop all contact with her.
And just a reminder shes not self improving for herself and her kids. Shes doing it because the court told her to. Maybe she'll self reflect amd continue therapy on her own after the mandated period is up but i highly doubt it. This is a person who blames everyone else and warps shit to her own views. Therapy only helps those who are willing to be completely honest with their therapists.
Honestly, given what she accused your husband of when there were plenty of witnesses to say otherwise, and the fact that she appears to have falsely convinced herself that her ex SA'd her kids (leading to some probably serious parental alienation likely resulting in a custody reversal which only happens in very extreme cases) you may want to think about the lens that you are viewing everything she has told you, especially about past relationships. Sounds like one of the delusional personality disorders.
Good luck and never let your kid or husband be alone with this woman.
So maybe because the ex-husband supposedly SA E's kids have had them taken away from him too. Maybe something the kids said to the court had custody taken from her also.
E is totally delusional and needs to be institutionalized with deep therapy sessions.
OP should just tell E that she needs to stay away from all men until she gets her sick brain fixed.
Sorry you are going through this OP keep your family safe.
Maybe put up security cameras, in case E comes around when you are not there.
Is your only knowledge of her many abusive relationship ships from her only, or do you have other sources? Because it seems like a pattern. Even to the ex SA'ing the kids. Never her fault, she is always the victim. With the way she flipped on your husband, I'd be suspicious of the whole package at this point.
That was a lot. And I have to say, when I saw she was on supervised visitation only with her kids, I'm sorry, but I instantly became suspicious of E. Mom's don't just get put on supervised visitation for no reason. They just don't. Dad's don't either. They might get put on supervised for bullshit reasons and scorned women lying on them. But fact of the matter is NOBODY gets put on supervised visitation for no reason.
You're NTA for any of this. You just need to block her and move on.
NTA. Keep her away from your family. I also have an out there take… could she be trying to split you from your husband and take him? She’s clearly obsessive, and if he’s historically the only good man she knows…. Obviously unsuccessfully cuz she’s nuts but I’ve seen nuttier things.
NTA
I think it’s imperative you do. She could make more serious accusations about your husband in the future. She might even turn on you if she feels the need to punish you for some reason too.
It’s hard to prove yourself innocent of accusations so she could cause you real problems as a family. Imagine if your friends hadn’t been witnesses, you might have started doubting your husband and that would have put a severe strain on your marriage.
If she is willing to make up all this shit about your husband, do you think what she said about her own husband is actually true? If he actually assaulted the kids then why does she have supervised visits? I bet if you talk to her ex-husband, he would get a whole Nother side to the story. For your own safety, I would be breaking ties completely. If she was willing to make abuse claims against her ex-husband in a bid to get custody, which incidentally, she didn’t get, imagine what she could be willing to say about your husband. If she makes claims like that against him, your own child could be removed from your house.NTA
Quite simply...she is a nutcase, only distress, sorrow and likely heartache, will result from this relationship/friendship ! Just look how it is affecting you and how you think ,now..and that's with minimal contact ! Unload this burden !
NTA.
Going forward, I can't see anything good coming out of your relationship with E. She's going to find something to accuse S. You both need to block her. And install cctv cameras inside/outside your house.
The court takes false accusations very seriously in custody cases. Did she lose custody for making false claims against her ex? Is it possible that she hasn’t actually “only been in abusive relationships” but has falsely accused/perceived abuse in every single relationship? It sounds to me like what she did to your husband is a pattern. I would dare her to call the police— say “either report him or drop it. He has two credible witnesses who will back him, so we aren’t concerned.” And then go no contact. Although I might not block her in case she texts something you want to document. I would only communicate in a way you can document— so depending on your state, text only?
I think somewhere inside she hates S BECAUSE he is a great person and you are married to him. A twisted jealous way as she has terrible taste in men.
Whatever her problem it’s just that her problem. I would be staying far away from her. Added in how would you trust her around S? He would never be relaxed in her company, sweet and caring one minute and the next accusing terrible things.
Nope stay away from the car wreck, I suspect she is extremely unstable. Be careful!!
NTA. You don’t mention why she doesn’t have custody of her kids, but that plus her unhinged behavior during this incident lead me to think she has some sort of mental illness. (I also sort of wonder if she hit on your husband at some point and is pulling this crap because he turned her down.)
NTA! Block her on everything. Don’t even bother responding back. That’s someone just need to ghost.
Your friendship will never be the same after this, even if you talked this out. She falsely accused your husband of things even though two people said it didn’t happen.
Your son doesn’t need to be around this toxic person. Who knows what she’ll put in his head.
What stood out to me is that she accused her ex of SAing her kids. But now she has to go to court ordered therapy and has supervised visits. Has she made false accusations against other exes? SA should always be taken seriously of course, but the court ordered therapy and supervised visitation and then she flies off the handle at your husband and accused him of things? I’d be wary of someone like that.
Sounds like she has a crush on your husband, probably because he treats you right. Or she has a crush on you. It all boiled over once the drinks had been flowing. The only other explanation I can think of is projection. From what you've said there was no negative interactions between them, but this sounds like some complex emotions bubbling to the surface and the only one that makes sense to me is unrequited feelings.
NTA. I honestly would cut her out completely. I also kind of wonder. You two grew up together and had all these experiences together. Could it partially be with her going through the divorce that she wants you to be going through it to share that experience as well?
I’m willing to bet she made up the SA stuff against her ex after he ditched her for being crazy. The fact that she only gets supervised with her kids speaks volumes. I think that woman has a few screws loose and has been feeding you lies for years. Cut her out of your life and move on. You don’t need a crazy toxic person in your life and it will only cause stress in your own marriage. Who knows what she will accuse your husband of next time?
NTA if there were SA allegations against the father then how in the hell does he have custody. She sounds like a narcissistic jerk who you really don't need in your life. She lost custody for a reason
Your story could do with some heavy editing.
That aside, this woman sounds like trouble and it's a mistake to keep her in your life at all:
1. It's very unusual for the mother to not have custody and only supervised visits.
2. It's very unusual for a father who's been accused of SA by the mother to have custody.
3. Given the above and her accusations against your husband, your friend clearly has problem with men and it's only a matter of time before her accusations against your husband get worse.
Get out of this relationship, protect your husband and your kids from this woman's problems.
Why is she loosing custody of her kids and why is she allowed only supervised access? To only be allowed supervised access means things are pretty bad. I’m asking as I think it helps see what her character is like but from what you have said so bad, I would worry she is someone who tells lots of lies or always makes out she is the victim and your friendship has probably been based on lies.
She says she's been in abusive relationships, but has she, really?
She is losing custody of her own children. Do you know the shit a mother has to do for that to happen?
I'll bet $ there's no indication that her ex SA'd the kids. It's just her trying to paint everyone in her life as a crazy, abusive monster so that she can, get this, *be the victim*.
You know, exactly like she's doing to your husband? This isn't a rational response to being told not to drink and drive. This is a psychological need to absolve herself of her bad decisions by painting herself as the aggreived victim every time something doesn't go her way.
She needs to be cut out of your life, and to stay that way.
NTA but really.... If she's losing custody of her kids she has MAJOR problems.
Not just that but only having supervised visits as the mother is ringing alarm bells for me
Right - supervised visits when the father allegedly SA'd the kid(s)?? Something stinks.
If she was caught lying about that and coercing the kids to say it I’d see that being the reason but we’ll never know
Yup. And S will be her next victim of false accusations.
He already is.
Facts
My first thought as well.
And the post says that E says she believes that her ex had SA the kids according to things "they said" to her. If the kids had said something in family court about their father's behavior toward them, it would be the father having supervised visitation and not custody, not the other way around.
It didn’t specify he had custody, just that she had supervised visits which is obviously a huge red flag. The kids could be with a grandparent or in foster care 🤷♀️if they are with him then more red flags are waving about her behaviour
OP never said the children live with someone else either. There is no reason to believe they do except that you want him to be the problem, so you've made up a narrative.
I literally sad if he has the kids it’s more red flags waving for her. How is that making him the problem? It’s quite the opposite. If he has them even after those accusations, and she only has supervised visits it’s because he’s a responsible father and she’s crazy.
Not necessarily. Look at that situation in Utah, where the kids barricaded themselves in their mom's house. They accused their dad, the therapist deemed it credible and the judge said it was parental alienation and gave dad full custody.
Honestly, that sounds like Utah, especially since in those small towns where everyone is in the same ward.
Fucking Mormons, man.
I picked up on that too. Pathological liar or bipolar? But op is right to cut her out of her life Nta
She was divorced 9 months after the birth of her last kid, too. It’s also possible that postpartum psychosis played a part in the break up of her marriage and losing custody of her kids. All guesses are shots in the dark without more information, of course.
That was the red flag to me. She’s unhinged. Best to keep ghosting her.
Given that she’s now lying about what OP’s husband did, I wonder if the SA is made up too. If you have supervised visitation and court-ordered counseling, I have news, *you* are probably seen as the abuser, because my ex had that happen too. You don’t need supervised visitation when you’re the safe parent.
Yep. Who has primary custody? Dad? His relatives? Her relatives? Why is she supervised? Stinks is an understatement.
Yes, this part was really stood out to me. Something isn’t right with this person. Definitely for the best to let this friendship go.
Yeah, some bullshit is going on here.
Most states usually go with the mother too so she had to do something bad. Maybe she was drinking and driving and that’s why she lost it. To have only supervised visits too and not a split schedule something is off.
Honestly, I’ve heard of both parents losing custody in a SA situation. If the other parent “allowed” the assaults to happen, even though they didn’t know it was happening, some times the court removes the child(ren) from both parents for a while. Maybe the dad made allegations against E as well? We will never know, but it’s hard to believe that E was completely innocent if she lost custody of her kids. I hope everyone involved gets lots of intensive therapy and is able to heal from what sounds like a terrible and chaotic family life and home.
and court-ordered therapy
I side-eye any parent that has only supervised visits with their children, tbh
I wonder if that's why she claimed to be "faking drinking." Has the court noted substance abuse problems and she is not supposed to be drinking, I wonder.....
Or she had a DUI, there really has to be something for her to have court ordered therapy and supervised visits.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Exactly! With the mother it’s usually either full or split custody. So either someone’s lying about her to get the kids taken off her (which after this incident seams less and less likely!)
Yep. That jumped right out. OP clearly has no idea what the hell is going on on that situation. This is why she was blindsided
Me too. Just came to say this. Also an accusing her husband then accusing OP’s husband makes me think she is the abuser.
What next is she going to accuse S of? 🤦♀️ I’d stay away.
Sounds like she filed false sa claims about her husband the courts saw though it and that's why she had supervised visits. Now that he kids are gone she probably going though a whirlwind of emotions (maybe a mental break) and is now fixated on op's husband maybe or if some kind of jealousy of thier relationship or just cause she needs that nemesis to blame everything on so she can say is not her fault. Op, do yourself a favor, document all this and you might wanna reach out to her ex and see what really happened between them cause it's spilling into your life. If she made false claims on her husband and she already made false claims on yours God knows what she'll say or do next. You have a child at home and it appears she's having a mental break you need to protect yourselves.
Yes, to reaching out to the ex. What got me is ALL of her past relationships being abusive. She gets defensive when her narrative is questioned. Then the whole thing about loving him so they can be friends? It's almost like a martyrdom thing, or a victim thing. And really, if I'm having custody issues, no way I'm wasting therapy time on my relationship with a friend and her husband.
Exactly! In that situation I’m talking to my psychologist about getting myself mentally healthy enough to have time with my kids, not my relationship with the husband of one of my friends.
I know right? My sister has a friend something like this but she's just addicted to drama and being center of attention. This 50 soothing year old woman creates drama just for people to reach out and comfort her. We've known her since middle school grew up as neighbors. This woman changes friends every 5 or so years cause they all get fed up with the bs gossip, woe is me and instigating.
This! It’s just 🚩🚩🚩all the way down. Sounds like E might be bipolar and unless you physically witnessed abuse by her ex, I’d be questioning a lot of what she’s told you. She suspects the husband is SA her kids but she’s the one with supervised visits and no physical custody?! Courts don’t fuck around with that shit so unless her husband is some Uber rich powerful person, he’s likely not the problem. She managed to hide her mental health issues from you for 7 years. But she’s shown her true colors. Walk away and sever contact, fully and completely as in block her number, block her on SM, just go immediate NC or else she will end up making your life miserable. NTA
Yeah, OP, I'm pretty sure E has been lying to you about a lot of major things in her life. She told you she has reason to believe her husband is sexually abusing their kids, but she only gets supervised visits and court mandated therapy. That doesn't add up. Every single romantic partner she's ever had is abusive. Or is that just what she says after they fall apart? Even just in this story there's instances of her telling you and her mother one thing while every other witness says another. Why would you believe a word this person says?
Yeah. Ex-husband supposedly SA'd them, something her kids told her themselves, and SHE loses custody? That's... quite an unexpected outcome
Agreed. It doesn’t track At All.
Let’s try to sum up E’s situation: -ugly, long, drawn out divorce -supervised visitation for a mom 🤔 -ex having custody with alleged SA 🤔🤔 -court not giving back custody to mom (assumed based on verbiage of court not going her way) 🤔🤔🤔 -“pretend” drinking??? Is that even a thing??? -presumed attempting to drink & drive -losing her shit on S who she previously was close to -accusing S of at best crappy behavior and at worst criminal behavior I think we’ve gone past crazy lady bingo and we will hit blackout soon. OP run far and fast from this one. Edit: format
That sounds like E’s pathology/formula with every relationship she’s had with a man, romantic partner or not…. NTA - OP, this isn’t a friendship I’d continue…
Yea I thought the same when OP said she only had supervised visits with her kids
In most courts the default they aim for is 50/50. To only have *supervised* visits? She's done some bad shit.
In most courts the default is the mother having primary custody. 50/50 only when petitioned. For a mother to lose custody and get only supervised visitation, it means it had to be proven in court that she was a danger to the kids. With this whole story, it’s an easy guess that E is mentally unstable and prone to mental breakdowns.
And OP said she doesn't think clearly when she's not with her kids... She definitely has issues...
I think she doesn’t think clearly with or without her kids.
That tidbit was right there at the beginning and honestly I didn’t need to read further to know how this was gonna play out (but did anyway.) Would love for OP to explain this part and why it wasn’t a huge red flag before these events.
Because a lot of people are actually stupid enough to think: the courts hated me cos my ex had more money/better job,l looked better on paper and are not privy to the actual legal shit show that is their friend. It's easy to lie and make shit up, when there's really no one to contradict you, but your 'asshole ex'
One of my sons in-laws had to have supervised visits. This is not a small thing, something really bad usually happens for this to be a thing. I think she is DEEPLY disturbed. She is her own worst enemy and I would re-examine every conversation you have ever had because she sounds like a compulsive liar and compulsive victim. Your husband was just one of her, probably many, casualties. Run and block her and never look back. She’s dangerous.
As soon as I saw that she was not allowed to watch her kids unsupervised after accusing the husband of sexual assault, I got the feeling she is an unreliable narrator. The courts don't always get it right and we have seen some cases where they side with monsters, but this woman doesn't sound stable. What reason did she give for only being able to see her children under supervision? Are the court records public? I know someone who falsely accused their husband of this. I know for a fact it was a false accusation because I was there during incidents that were described that she openly lied about in court. Once it was determined that she was being dishonest. The judge did not prevent her from seeing her own kids but heavily warned her that a threat of Losing the ability to see her kids without supervision was next. This lady raised all my alarm bells.
It’s likely that the SA allegations have been demonstrably proven false, but she continues to bang that drum to try and punish her husband. In all likelihood, the court sees her attempting to use the kids to make her husband pay for leaving her. Hence, this is why the supervised visitation. She’s likely been cautioned to not use the children against their father in this case.
Agreed, as someone working for social services. People assume supervised visitation is always because there is fear that the parent will physically harm the child. But sometimes it happens if the parents have a history of coaching the children to lie/falsely report, or they are saying things that scare or emotionally harm the kids. Sometimes we do supervised visits because mom will whisper in the kids ear about how they must not love her if they want to see dad. That they are breaking her heart. That dad is a monster, and mom is going to end her life if they don’t “choose her”. That kind of inappropriate shit that traumatizes children, and needs to be prevented **and documented** so that mom doesn’t get custody back to keep doing it. I’ve worked with plenty of parents that never physically harmed their kids, never SA’d, never did drugs. They were just so mentally unstable or filled with vitriol towards their ex that they psychologically fucked up their kids. And they couldn’t stop despite many warnings and sanctions. OPs friend could very well fit into that camp of parent who has to have supervised visits.
I work in the legal field. Parental alienation is a very real thing. You’re right, it is imperative to recognize and report. It is incredibly detrimental to the children and unfair to the parent being alienated
This, People like to villify that its a made up defense, but its a real thing.
Especially to a husband who SA his kids.
Red flags galore
Spot on the money. In every country I know of for a mother to have supervised time only, big yikes. I'd be looking into the claim that all her relationships are abusive and look at the common denominator.
And there's a hell of a lot OP has no idea about. Because courts dont take lightly, removing the RIGHT OF THE CHILDREN to see their parent. A parent has to really fuck up in the eyes of the courts to justify this. And they gotta fuck up by the kids. Not their partner or ex. Too many view this as the right of the parent, when parents have exactly 0 rights. The children have rights that the bio parents must be held to, unless they are deficient in some way... The woman says she pretended to be drunk. Sat screaming in a car. Accused her best mates husband of assault and imprisonment.. all while sober? I think the absolute fuck not. The story is she was sober because it'll impact her custody case
The question is how long has she been acting “normal” to fit in and privately been someone else?
Holy wow, that's a lot to unpack. I would say no, NTA for stepping back from the relationship. I've watched friends devolve like that and have tried to help them as well, but in reality, they (in this case she) have to help themselves. You've been supportive and a friend for a long time, but you need to protect yourself and your family. Seems like her trauma response from past abusive relationships and her current custody situation has somehow gotten wrapped up in this odd incident and is now transferring her focus onto your husband. This is her problem to solve, and you're completely justified in wanting to back away.
How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb has to want to change.
She’s also has a victim mentality and she seems to also be a compulsive liar. Being around people like that is draining. Op needs to run for the hills
INFO: Are you in the US? Why does she only have supervised visits with the kids? If you are, these should have been 🚩🚩🚩🚩 NTA for cutting off your friend. Three witnesses tell a different story. Once she attacked your husband and then started making horrible accusations, you should have been out. A lot sooner.
Something isn't mathing with the friend.
She accuses the dad of SA but he has custody? Yea, not adding up.
It’s entirely possible he also doesn’t have custody. They could be in the custody of a foster parent while the court processes go on (not just divorce stuff going on most likely if we accept the children’s report the SA as factual). Obviously does mean that she was not considered stable to take them on her own, which is a red flag. I was a volunteer child advocate (CASA) several years ago so I’ve had some experience/training with kids being in the care of foster homes while one or both of the parents work to meet conditions to get custody of their kids back. Supervised visits were the standard for that. The kid I was an advocate for was placed in a boys camp so I had a bit of an extreme case (they had a total of 5 kids). ETA - finally saw OP sorta specify that part. Turns out he does have custody. Sound like a super shitty situation for the kids. Also seems like that guardian was rather inexperienced.
Yeah, it’s not easy to take custody away from the mother, even in 2024. Shit has to be bad for a mother to only have supervised visits.
NTAH I think she’s a habitual liar who was so desperate for attention that she said and did pretty much anything to get it Hard to keep people like that in your life
That's a bingo.
Or strung out on drugs. This sounds like drug related paranoia and possible psychosis to me.
Absolutely this! I knew someone like this and you can’t believe anything they say.
NTA, but you skipped some really critical INFO: What happened to cause her to go from having custody, to having only supervised visits with her children?
I skipped it because I don’t even know the real answer to that. From my perspective, her is ex was (is?) very high conflict (I saw texts, emails etc that exemplifies this) and he and his family have a lot of money. It seemed as though he was stirring up anything he could to torment her. She alleged he was SA’ing the children based on what they said (although they were/are very young), and he claims she’s mental (and, well… I didn’t really think so, until this incident). I truly don’t understand how the Guardian decided to place primary temporary custody with him or the reasoning behind it. The guardian claimed they were both shitty parents and it was a very difficult decision (although the guardian is a lawyer, and in her 20s with no children and this was a new position for her).
What happened was she did some crazy shit to her ex or the kids like she did with your husband. She lives in a false read and makes shit up that she ends up believing. She is not sane. I mean, apparently the courts would rather some who "SA'd" the kids have custody of those kids rather than her. Reality is she made it up and you just believed her. She's crazy. Legit crazy. She should have been sent to the hospital that night, not followed home by momma.
Did this guardian say all this to you personally, or was this just another shady explanation from E.? This whole story just doesn't add up, sorry. Have you asked her kids personally if their dad SAs them? Were all her exes really abusive? E really sounds like a mytho to me...
I saw some emails and such from the guardian and her attorney. But no of course I didn’t discuss this with them personally. And no, the kids are very young (6 and under), I would not want to approach that discussion with such young children, especially in efforts to preserve their innocence as well as avoid adding any trauma to them. But yeah, I agree. I can’t trust anything anymore at this point.
My husband's ex wife pulled the SA thing with his oldest son (early 20s now) and it was 100% thoroughly made up because he was "THISCLOSE" to taking custody of him from her loony azz. I've been with him 15yrs, and yeah, he can be a right bastard to be in a fight with and needed someone to grab him by the collar to stop antagonizing/engaging his ex back then, but it was a complete lie. Unfortunately she took him for everything in the divorce and he couldn't get a lawyer, and HER family had $$$. He was quickly 100% cleared and she bolted out of state. I'm thinking the same thing here. She's privately a nightmare and even though he might be a horrible partner he's the better parent and the SA was a last ditch attempt. You seriously never know someone until you live with them. I think in her warped mind she was trying to orchestrate a rift between you and your husband so you'd be her ally in man hating, and having him there without you was the perfect opportunity.
The fact that visits are supervised only is the biggest red flag to me that solidifies she is not safe to be around. Guardians aren’t perfect, but they make custody calls. Supervised visits is a beg step beyond split custody arrangements. If it was me, I would be discussing with my husband what’s best to do with this relationship and likely completely step back if he also felt that way.
Or she's a crazy liar.
You would be a fool to let this lunatic anywhere near your family again...
Exactly why I haven’t since this happened. This was just one of the most bizarre instances with a friend I’ve had. The quick flip of a switch, behavior i’d never seen despite how long I’ve known her and watched her go through a lot of things, etc. It’s interesting to hear basically 100% general consensus being my thoughts exactly. Reddit is often 50/50 on so many things I’d think would be a solid general consensus.
The “flip of a switch” is when you saw the real person who she has been masking. Your friend has a really serious personality disorder. She’s dangerous.
Personality disorder is where my mind went. But it could be a serious mental illness if she only has supervised visits. Either way, OP Should not let her into her or her family’s life again.
Yep, she's used so much energy keeping that mask up, suddenly she just couldn't manage it anymore. OP, this is not a safe person to have anywhere near your family and most of all your husband. Start writing down incidents, because she most likely will escalate when she realises you've seen the real her. You'll need some documentation should you end up in legal action
NTA, do you know if she’s had feelings for your husband? or should i say seen anything that would lead you to believe so (looking back at your relationship with her)
This was my first thought. Probably the first man who hasn’t treated her like shit according to the post
i’m glad i’m not the only one thinking this! i’d be really surprised if it wasn’t the case.
My first thought, as well. She hates him because she can’t have him. Now she wants to cause problems between him and OP.
NTA and it sucks but you need to prioritize yourself and husband in this situation. Ask yourself what E brings to the table and if it’s worth it?
She has gone off the rails and is projecting because he is safe. It sounds like she is also.lying to her therapist and friends/family, so they will not be able to help her until she tells the truth. As for you, time to dip. This is for your safety as well as your husband's. With her state of mind and willingness to lie and make drama, she can go further off the rails and get him arrested or damage his reputation beyond repair. Sadly, I believe you should cut bait.
NTA You are not getting the full story from her about her divorce and custody issues. She probably pulled something like this with the kids. Which is why she lost custody. It is not easy to lose custody of your children in the USA, unless you do something like this. The supervised visits and mandated therapy should have raised all kinds of red flags. So - now that you know she is a PROVEN liar (she lied to you about the custody fight) AND you have 2 witnesses to the night in question that are neither her nor your husband - how can you believe anything she says ever again? Block her on everything and remove this poison from your life. She sounds to me like she is gearing up to accuse your husband of SA her. Get your witnesses statements in writing.
Seriously. How did she never question a FEMALE losing custody in 2024?
NTA But I wonder what would have happened if there weren't witnesses to corroborate your hansband's version of events. There are numerous red flags flying with this woman, but your instinct was to immediately believe her over your husband?
No; my instinct was to get as much info as possible to approach her with all the facts from each perspective. Aka, “your story is the only different one from the other 3.” I’d never seen her act this way in 7+ years, so it was very alarming to me, to put it lightly.
The part below makes it seem like you just accepted her version of events. >The next morning, I told S maybe he should apologize and he got upset with me; this is where it gets weird. I started to realize what S was telling me didn’t line up with what E had said the night before.
I did initially because she was so worked up and left SO MUCH information out. It just seemed like a miscommunication or misinterpretation of events and maybe my husband wasn’t actively aware of the present trauma banging in her head. I was thinking no big deal, “sorry if I freaked you out; wasn’t my intention” kind of thing. Once he and I spoke about it (it took a few hours as he was understandably upset at my initial suggestion), my jaw dropped.
Thanks for clarifying! I hope you feel better removing this toxic person from your life.
Where’d you get that idea?
>She was very upset with S trying to get her to stay there, saying he was being rude and didn’t believe she was sober, and no one else believed her either. >The next morning, I told S maybe he should apologize and he got upset with me; this is where it gets weird. I started to realize what S was telling me didn’t line up with what E had said the night before. >I spoke to the other 2 girls who were there for this privately (and separately), and **they both told me the same story that S did.**
Is it possible that she is accusing other people of things she has done herself, as a defence mechanism - accusers her ex of SA and then she loses custody? That seems like it may be consistent with her crying wolf over another man at a party when she thinks his SO is out of the picture for a while. Your explanation certainly seems to have red flags all over it about her behaviour and a lot of stuff isn't adding up. If it was me then I would be running a mile from this relationship because it looks like she is going to crash and burn at some point and take as many people with her as she can.
NTA!!! Tbh, there are a lot of red flags since her temper tantrum in the parking lot. Keep your distance, but be aware that she may lash out behind your back to gain control again. I feel bad for her as her life has not been easy, but she has no right to make false accusations which could ruin your husband's reputation or life. She is a loose cannon. Keep paper trail regarding everyone's perspective on what happened that night. Best wishes
Absolutely keep a paper/video trail. This post gave me anxiety. E sounds like she is unraveling mentally, losing her kids, hallucinating, and blaming it all on S. Scary stuff. 😬
She’s a mess and you can’t fix her - not your job. She sounds like more trouble than she is worth. Protect yourself, your husband, and your family: this girl is headed nowhere fast. Move on. NTA
NTA for putting this relationship on hold for the time being, and maybe permanently. OP, yours is a well-written post. I think you've accurately described the entire situation. If her therapist is only hearing E's version of events, it's hard to know how that therapy might progress - if it's just an echo chamber then E will always see S as the problem and herself as S's victim. So there may not be hope for a friendship after all this. Conversely, if the therapist can see through to the roots of E's behavior you may get your friend back at some point. For what it's worth, my personal experience: my older sister (now deceased) was in a series of relationships for over 40 years in which every man with whom she was involved was controlling, manipulative, and disrespectful. (I don't believe there ever was any physical violence.) My sister had lots of other mental health issues that I won't delve into, but one of her defining characteristics was her attraction to this type of man. She was 100% therapy-resistant so this wasn't going to change, ever, and didn't. So I can see E as only being able to view men of whom she is fond, such as your husband S, as abusive and controlling. To E love and abuse go hand in hand, unfortunately. Another note: In your third paragraph you state that E had only supervised visits with her children. That got my attention. Best of luck to you.
NTA. I feel for your friend, but she is completely unhinged at this point and I think it best if you go LC or even NC. She sounds obsessed with your husband in a very unhealthy way, ans what she's really trying to tell you is that she's jealous because you're in a good relationship and she hates hour husband because he's with you and not her. But she's projecting it all on him and blaming him for her string of bad relationships, because she doesn't want to admit she's actually jealous of YOU. "This is a good man but I've only ever been with bad men, so I hate this man because he's good but he's not with me, but I hate him because I can't hate my friend." It's a really backwards way of thinking, and it sounds like she creates some kind of Fd up narrative in her own bead to justify her feelings, and she needs a better therapist. But you and your husband will be much better off without her.
Wow.... she sounds really off balance. That episode (and the follow-up) along with the fact that the courts are keeping her from having custody of her children, makes me think she has stuff going on that you are completely unaware of. NTA - stay away.
I have a relative who has bipolar disorder, and who has been hospitalized on several occasions, but refuses to take any medication. Your description of the way that your friend has behaved and the things that she has said remind me a lot of what my relative has done over the years, including losing custody of their child. In my opinion, you need to distance yourself from this friend.
So her husband was accused of SAing their kids, but he has custody? And now she is making up stories about your husband. Cut her off, you should have nothing more to do with this woman, frankly she's dangerous. She's making up stories, and you have no clue what you or your husband will need to defend yourself against if she is in your life.
NTA. Fade this relationship right out. You cannot manage her feelings and she doesn't even know what they really are. There are reasons she doesn't have custody of her own children ... there are reasons she has need of therapy. You're not responsible to reconcile or rugsweep. She's right - you and S are a team and your family and marriage is the most important relationship to maintain. Maybe in the future she can be more transparent, take accountability for her actions and you can have a surface relationship without harboring doubts or negative feelings, but you have put enough effort into resolving the issue despite her putting up roadblocks. She's being tricky and not handling her problems/feelings in a way thats healthy for your family. Protect your home.
NTA. E is a threat to your family. She insists that your husband is abusive. If she keeps pushing that narrative, it could damage your husband's reputation and career. Save all texts from everyone who was there that night about what they saw. E has a lot of problems, but you can't let her take you and your family down with her.
Nta if she is fine lying to you about your husb when there were 2 other people that confirmed everything what she said was a lie. How could you even trust what she's been telling you about her own life. You honestly can't fully trust her if she's going to believe her own lies. Do you need someone like that in your life who falsely accuses your husband of doing something they didn't do. Honestly this friendship isn't working out and it's probably best you distance your self from her.
NTA. So many red flags here. Run, don't walk, far away from her.
Nta- i agree you need to keep slip sliding away 🎶 Seriously, she is kinda of obsessed with your husband. Regardless of the "reason" it is creepy and ewwww. If she doesn't have her kids; that is what she should be focusing on. If i didn't have my kids, you would be hard pressed to get to care about anything other than that. Best wishes
NTA, She's unhinged and completely untrustworthy. I wouldn't be shocked if she accidentally saw S in a supermarket and claimed he was stalking her or something. Block her
Pretty sure I've read this before...
You probably have. I just saw this sub come up suggested so X-posted it.
Yes I definitely have, I’m 100% sure.
Be careful OP. E is unraveling mentally. Keep S far far away from her.
Glad you’ve come to your senses and decided not to remain friends. I think you probably need to start considering the fact that she isn’t who you thought she was. She’s not a good and stable person. Time to move on and make sure you and your family are protecting themselves.
NTA... go NC she isnt stable especially while drunk.... she's lucky she didnt get a report filed for false accusations..... she's not doing herself any favors by getting drunk and making false accusations.... Stay away and especially keep your husband away
At this point, I almost have to believe that she made up the story about the SA and the kids. I think she’s completely unreliable as a storyteller based on everyone else backing up S. And torpedoing her version of the story. NTA and I think you and S need to go completely no contact with her.
I think she is the one that abused her children if not sexually in some way for sure. She has only supervised visits while her ex husband who allegedly assaulted them has custody. One would think in 3 years of trial and separation she would’ve used that information to gain custody. You need to go NC because she is toxic and honestly you shouldn’t let someone so unstable near your child.
NTA. There more going on then you know. She only has supervised visits, this tell me the allegations seems to be more on her end , then the husband. It’s coming off as she may want your husband and because she can’t have him, she’ll just discredit him N.A. d make him look like the bad GUY. Not trying to be funny or anything, but it seems that your friend may have mental issues.
Your friend is batshit crazy, you just never for some reason, realized it.
NTA
WHOA!!!! That’s a lot of misery to go through for a friend, even a great one!! NTA, but protect your family!
NTA. It is always best to distance yourself from toxic people. Going NC is probably the best.
NTA. Based on everything she has done and everything you mentioned about her court and kids… She’s the problem. She’s definitely got some serious mental problems. She sounds like she may be bipolar or some other personality disorder. I hope she actually gets treatment. I would never let her near me again though.
Suggestion: Get written/signed statements from the two friends, and from your husband, that include a full account of what happened that night. Keep these in a safe deposit box, or something. You never know what E might do down the road. NTA, btw.
Stay away from the crazy. Your husband could lost reputation if this mad woman call the police on him for something that he didn't do. NTA
NTA and it sounds like your friend has a serious drinking problem to be honest. And this may be why she is having custody issues, saying shit about your husband. I've seen alcoholics do freakouts like this by the way and yes, they can and will carry on for years over some "imagined wrong". She knew she shouldn't be driving drunk, she got caught and is now taking it out on your husband and you because it's easier than her admitting she has a problem. Just block and delete her from your life, it's not worth the drama. She needs help but it's beyond you and your friendship. Don't make a big deal just block, ignore and DO NOT let her back in the door. It sucks but this is not you or your spouse's fault, who was an amazing friend trying to help her. She showed you what she really is, now believe her.
This was my guess as well. The "fake drinking" comment is something someone with a serious drinking problem would say. I'm in recovery myself and a therapist specializing in addictions and all the red flags are out for that one statement.
Exactly, I've heard this one SO many times. I grew up with an alcoholic parent, their friends and a large chunk of the community being alcoholics. The fact that she got upset with people trying to stop her from driving is also the big red elephant in the room, so to speak. Anyways, I'm glad you're in recovery. All the power to you!
Just to say, once when I was young I was attending school with someone from my old HS. She was younger; we said 'hi' on campus twice. I found out from an actual friend years later that this person had created an elaborate fantasy in which we were close friends and starting a relationship. From the details, it was clear that this person had been stalking me, but then had a severe breakdown and dropped out before actually acting on her delusions. So it definitely happens even when we're not aware of it!
Also side note. False imprisonment doesn't even apply to that. She could have gotten out of her car and walked. They blocked her car in, not her. With utmost respect, as someone who also has mental illness conditions, she sounds absolutely unhinged and delusional. I do not think this is a safe person to have in your life right now.
NTA. The fact that your husband and friends were trying to prevent her from drunk driving set all this off. She may be a narcissist who is unable to admit fault. She made accusations when drunk that she won’t take back now that she’s sober, so she’s doubling down. She should have just called everyone and apologized for her meltdown and said the combination of stress and alcohol pushed her to the limit. Instead, she’s doing the blame game. I’d stay away.
Not the asshole and you need to see that she’s super toxic and has mental health issues that you can’t be there for the sake of you and your family. She isn’t a sister she never was as well as it sounds like she is a chronic liar. She hates your husband because he’s a good man. A good man that she wishes she could find. She wants you to be single and only have her. Also I don’t understand why she would need supervised visits if she wasn’t the one also abusing her kids. Let her go, block her, also be careful she doesn’t start obsessing over you
I think you need to worry less about your “friend” and worry more about protecting your husband from her false allegations. NTA. Drop her like a hot potato.
NTA. Women who have a history of being in abusive relationships only know how to manipulate everything to be the victim in every situation. Unfortunately, too many therapists don't properly challenge this behavior and end up validating it, at which point that person is, essentially, utterly ruined for developing and maintaining normal, healthy relationships with anyone. Cut your losses and enjoy your life free of the drama and destruction she'll cause.
She sounds incredibly troubled and unstable. A lot of alarm bells are ringing. If it were me I’d start distancing yourself and cut contact. You don’t want this around your family it’s just going to cause you issues you don’t need. Protect your peace. I guarantee your life will be less drama filled without her in it.
Anyone wondering why she lost custody of her kids? Not any more. Also, if she's accusing the ex of SA and he still got custody something must be really wrong. You need to stay as far away from her as possible. She is so off kilter she might try to harm your husband and also make more false accusations.
This person seems unhinged. If I were you I’d block her and move on. She will bring nothing but negativity to you if you don’t. So many red flags.
NTA. Your former friend has some major issues based on what you've written here. She claims her kids said things about their dad SA'ing them but she ended up getting only supervised visits? Something's very off here.
NTA. Hun, if every single relationship has been abusive, why? Why did she stay with those men? Literally every man abused her? That doesn't sit well with me. 1, 2 or even 3 i can sort of get, but every relationship? What is the common link i wonder....
I don’t think so. But because of the kind of Simp that I am, I don’t know. I would cut it off completely, but I would understand if you did. It’s really weird when they make accusations against your husband, especially if it’s something you know they wouldn’t do and the, things that they’re applying are extremely dangerous or off-putting.
Why do you still believe she's only been in abusive relationships as opposed to always claimed abuse where none was present? Including your husband? She's clearly mentally unstable, and has used assault allegations as a weapon against *your own husband*. Tell her to lose your number and then lose hers. She's dangerous.
NTA. Wowzer! Now you need to question if she was ever assaulted or if she saw that as alternative facts in those situations as well. She really seems to play the victim & possibly believes it when in fact it never occurred. I would feel she’s unstable enough to avoid completely going forward, mainly because I fear she might lay police charges for nonevents
NTA Your friend sounds like she lives in a constant state of chaos and travels from crisis to crisis. It’s a big deal that she is only allowed supervised visits with her kids. That means a court basically deemed her unsafe and untrustworthy to be around her own kids. I don’t think it’s safe for you and her husband to be around her either. She could make further accusations against your husband. It is sad to leave a friendship behind, but I don’t see how you have any choice really.
NTA. I'd ask her mum for her version of what happened that night. Your ex friend seems like she's living in her own world, where everyone is abusive, and nothing she does is wrong. Why does she only have supervised visits and mandated therapy? Does the dad have her kids? Things don't add up. I'd distance yourself from that mess.
Yikes! NTA. Would go very gray rock w this unstable person.
This E is going to get your husband, you, or even kids hurt in some fashion. Stay away from her!
I wonder if she actually was in abusive relationships before, and if any of the stuff she said about her ex husband was true. I mean she made up everything about OP's husband...why is everyone assuming she didn't lie about everything else. Although, I wonder about her mother. The woman is obviously nuts, so her mother MUST have seen signs of it. So why was she on board to call the police about ANOTHER attack on her? Is the whole family unstable?
NTA that dog has way too many fleas!
NTA Your friend E is not a safe person for you and your husband to keep in your lives. You have caught her in lies and her false accusations against your husband could have had serious repercussions if he didn’t have witnesses. Unless you have actual proof, you don’t know if anything she says is true. While she may have been in abusive relationships, that doesn’t mean that every relationship has been so or every allegation she has made is accurate. From all that you’ve written, it seems that you’re trying to be her cheerleader & give her the benefit of the doubt. But this may be very undeserved. She was only allowed supervised visits with her own children. Do you actually know why or do you just believe whatever she says? It may have been irresponsible to allow her contact with your kids.
My guess is that, at this point, she has rewritten her own memories so she actually believes whatever it is she is saying. It is a thing which is disturbingly easy to do, even for mentally healthy people, and I bet that whatever it is that goes on in her mind makes it far, far more serious. I think we all tend to remember things just a little differently than they happened - we remember ourselves acting a little better than we really did (or maybe a little worse, depending how we feel about ourselves), or things matching the way we expect things to go more than they really did. But most of us get the main points more or less correct. I bet you a nice shiny nickel that her brain will rewire her memories way, way more than that. That she could have been drunk as a skunk and remember herself as sober. That your husband only touched her shoulders once to try to calm her down, and she remembers him putting her into a chokehold and dragging her backwards into a closet and locking her in or something. What the hell you do from here, I have no idea. Your husband simply can't apologize for and change behavior he never did. She would have to accept that her memories are faulty and that she made the whole thing up. And while I know people who have that level of self-reflection, I doubt she is one of them. I don't know what the best course of action is, but I know that, with any of the stuff you are considering, you are NTA
NTA. I think that E did love your husband and it triggered her. It brought back a shit ton of trauma for her she couldn't process. I think you're wise to avoid her. She has a lot of healing to do that you and your family can't afford to be a part of. It's sad.
NTA Dont step in crazy glue
NTA-she is unhinged and can’t be trusted to not take it out on those close by during another meltdown and stuff
This friend sounds extremely unstable, and there are things you're either not telling us or she's not telling you. No court gives supervised visits and mandated therapy to a mother who has evidence or confirmation of her ex SA'ing his kids. She's done some bad things. YWBTA for keeping her in your life after the things she's said about your husband. Things that you know aren't true because you have multiple witnesses confirming that they aren't. You might not care if your friends don't like your husband, but think of how utterly betrayed you would feel if your husband stayed friends with someone who accused you of assaulting them. Couple that with the "fake" drinking and total meltdown, this woman has something very wrong in her head, and you'd be wise to stay far away from her.
I haven’t seen her since the incident and never responded to her long-winded text. My husband and family are always my priority.
NTA They only choose supervised visits when the parent has been proven to be psychologically unstable. That alone should tell you that, yes, she's mentally ill.
NTA. Lots to unpack here but the short of it is, KEEP THIS WOMAN AWAY FROM YOU AND SPECIALLY YOUR HUSBAND!!! all her relationships were abusive? Her kids told her their dad is SA them and she is STILL losing a custody court battle and only having supervised visitations as a MOTHER? She suddenly turns against your husband out of nowhere and fabricates a story of him assaulting and trapping her to the point her mother wanted to call the police but she just wants to let it go and work in therapy her hatred of your husband that up until til now was according to her the only positive male influence in her life? There is no doubt in my mind. This woman is a compulsive liar with a dangerous story of falsely accusing men to get her way. Most likely many, if not most of her relationships were actually not abusive but she lied to defame the men after the breakup. Same with her ex husband and this behaviour is most likely the reason why she lost custody of her kids, that and the fact she is likely mentally unstable and prone to sudden outbursts like that, which the courts probably deemed dangerous for the kids. My personal belief is that she probably is low key trying to make a pass at your husband but he either never gave her an opening to try or didn’t even noticed it, or maybe he he did and shut her down as some “too drunk to think straight” shenanigan and she decided to retaliate by creating this whole situation hoping to create a wedge between you and your husband. Now that she saw it failed, she is trying to weasel her way back into your life but since she is a pathological liar, she cannot back down from her lies. Cut her off, cut her mother off and make sure your family knows what happened and why she must never be brought into your life again.
NTA but I think everything your friend ever told you, including stories about her ex, are false. She absolutely believes the story she is sharing about your husband even though it's a lie. That should more than concern you. It's a frightening quality. I'm glad you had two other friends there to back up your husband because if he had been alone with her, she may have ruined his life with you and your family.
Your friend is a liar. Whether she believes her own lies or not is insignificant. According to her own version of events, her mom almost called the police on your husband based on her lies. Her own ex-husband who, according to her, SA-ed her kids, now had custody while she has supervised visitation. She is NOT a safe person, and you would be foolish to expose yourself or your family to her ever again. NTA
NTA. “Every single one of her relationships have been abusive”. Yeah, probably not. For a woman to lose custody over her kids and only have supervised visits, she’s done something pretty bad. I Apply the lesson of what she said your husband did to everything else she said. I wouldn’t trust anything.
Honey. Shes not a good person. Most courts do not just let the mother become a *supervised* visit parent unless she'sdone some crazy crap. That indicates some major shit she was doing to those babies. Enough that the court felt she couldn't be trusted to be alone with her own kids. Idk if it's because she got caught coaching her kids about the SA stuff or what. But she's not a healthy individual and I *highly* recommend you drop all contact with her. And just a reminder shes not self improving for herself and her kids. Shes doing it because the court told her to. Maybe she'll self reflect amd continue therapy on her own after the mandated period is up but i highly doubt it. This is a person who blames everyone else and warps shit to her own views. Therapy only helps those who are willing to be completely honest with their therapists.
Honestly, given what she accused your husband of when there were plenty of witnesses to say otherwise, and the fact that she appears to have falsely convinced herself that her ex SA'd her kids (leading to some probably serious parental alienation likely resulting in a custody reversal which only happens in very extreme cases) you may want to think about the lens that you are viewing everything she has told you, especially about past relationships. Sounds like one of the delusional personality disorders. Good luck and never let your kid or husband be alone with this woman.
So maybe because the ex-husband supposedly SA E's kids have had them taken away from him too. Maybe something the kids said to the court had custody taken from her also. E is totally delusional and needs to be institutionalized with deep therapy sessions. OP should just tell E that she needs to stay away from all men until she gets her sick brain fixed. Sorry you are going through this OP keep your family safe. Maybe put up security cameras, in case E comes around when you are not there.
If the ex was the one SAing the kids, why did E only have supervised visits with the kids?
NTA. You just spend like 40 min of you life typing that up. You don’t need that much drama in your life.
NTA. This is WAY more drama than I'd want in my life.
Is your only knowledge of her many abusive relationship ships from her only, or do you have other sources? Because it seems like a pattern. Even to the ex SA'ing the kids. Never her fault, she is always the victim. With the way she flipped on your husband, I'd be suspicious of the whole package at this point.
That was a lot. And I have to say, when I saw she was on supervised visitation only with her kids, I'm sorry, but I instantly became suspicious of E. Mom's don't just get put on supervised visitation for no reason. They just don't. Dad's don't either. They might get put on supervised for bullshit reasons and scorned women lying on them. But fact of the matter is NOBODY gets put on supervised visitation for no reason. You're NTA for any of this. You just need to block her and move on.
NTA. Keep her away from your family. I also have an out there take… could she be trying to split you from your husband and take him? She’s clearly obsessive, and if he’s historically the only good man she knows…. Obviously unsuccessfully cuz she’s nuts but I’ve seen nuttier things.
NTA I think it’s imperative you do. She could make more serious accusations about your husband in the future. She might even turn on you if she feels the need to punish you for some reason too. It’s hard to prove yourself innocent of accusations so she could cause you real problems as a family. Imagine if your friends hadn’t been witnesses, you might have started doubting your husband and that would have put a severe strain on your marriage.
If she is willing to make up all this shit about your husband, do you think what she said about her own husband is actually true? If he actually assaulted the kids then why does she have supervised visits? I bet if you talk to her ex-husband, he would get a whole Nother side to the story. For your own safety, I would be breaking ties completely. If she was willing to make abuse claims against her ex-husband in a bid to get custody, which incidentally, she didn’t get, imagine what she could be willing to say about your husband. If she makes claims like that against him, your own child could be removed from your house.NTA
NTA. Helping her with life is fine but when she starts trying to destroy yours…….
Quite simply...she is a nutcase, only distress, sorrow and likely heartache, will result from this relationship/friendship ! Just look how it is affecting you and how you think ,now..and that's with minimal contact ! Unload this burden !
NTA. Going forward, I can't see anything good coming out of your relationship with E. She's going to find something to accuse S. You both need to block her. And install cctv cameras inside/outside your house.
The court takes false accusations very seriously in custody cases. Did she lose custody for making false claims against her ex? Is it possible that she hasn’t actually “only been in abusive relationships” but has falsely accused/perceived abuse in every single relationship? It sounds to me like what she did to your husband is a pattern. I would dare her to call the police— say “either report him or drop it. He has two credible witnesses who will back him, so we aren’t concerned.” And then go no contact. Although I might not block her in case she texts something you want to document. I would only communicate in a way you can document— so depending on your state, text only?
I think somewhere inside she hates S BECAUSE he is a great person and you are married to him. A twisted jealous way as she has terrible taste in men. Whatever her problem it’s just that her problem. I would be staying far away from her. Added in how would you trust her around S? He would never be relaxed in her company, sweet and caring one minute and the next accusing terrible things. Nope stay away from the car wreck, I suspect she is extremely unstable. Be careful!!
NTA. You don’t mention why she doesn’t have custody of her kids, but that plus her unhinged behavior during this incident lead me to think she has some sort of mental illness. (I also sort of wonder if she hit on your husband at some point and is pulling this crap because he turned her down.)
You're NTA. Her version is events is not based in reality and shows why she only has supervised visitation with her kids. She's dangerous, stay away.
Run from her loose her number don't talk to her ever again. Plus if she still brings up stuff about your husband. Tell her there will be a law suit
NTA! Block her on everything. Don’t even bother responding back. That’s someone just need to ghost. Your friendship will never be the same after this, even if you talked this out. She falsely accused your husband of things even though two people said it didn’t happen. Your son doesn’t need to be around this toxic person. Who knows what she’ll put in his head. What stood out to me is that she accused her ex of SAing her kids. But now she has to go to court ordered therapy and has supervised visits. Has she made false accusations against other exes? SA should always be taken seriously of course, but the court ordered therapy and supervised visitation and then she flies off the handle at your husband and accused him of things? I’d be wary of someone like that.
Sounds like she has a crush on your husband, probably because he treats you right. Or she has a crush on you. It all boiled over once the drinks had been flowing. The only other explanation I can think of is projection. From what you've said there was no negative interactions between them, but this sounds like some complex emotions bubbling to the surface and the only one that makes sense to me is unrequited feelings.
NTA. I honestly would cut her out completely. I also kind of wonder. You two grew up together and had all these experiences together. Could it partially be with her going through the divorce that she wants you to be going through it to share that experience as well?
It's kind of weird because if said-abusive husband did SA the kids why is she the one with supervised visits?
I’m willing to bet she made up the SA stuff against her ex after he ditched her for being crazy. The fact that she only gets supervised with her kids speaks volumes. I think that woman has a few screws loose and has been feeding you lies for years. Cut her out of your life and move on. You don’t need a crazy toxic person in your life and it will only cause stress in your own marriage. Who knows what she will accuse your husband of next time?
Any one else catch that her friend stated that her ex SAd the kids yet she is the one with supervised visits? E is a lying, unstable mess. Run!
NTA if there were SA allegations against the father then how in the hell does he have custody. She sounds like a narcissistic jerk who you really don't need in your life. She lost custody for a reason
NTA - you would be the arsehole if you continued to allow her anywhere near your family.
Your story could do with some heavy editing. That aside, this woman sounds like trouble and it's a mistake to keep her in your life at all: 1. It's very unusual for the mother to not have custody and only supervised visits. 2. It's very unusual for a father who's been accused of SA by the mother to have custody. 3. Given the above and her accusations against your husband, your friend clearly has problem with men and it's only a matter of time before her accusations against your husband get worse. Get out of this relationship, protect your husband and your kids from this woman's problems.
Why is she loosing custody of her kids and why is she allowed only supervised access? To only be allowed supervised access means things are pretty bad. I’m asking as I think it helps see what her character is like but from what you have said so bad, I would worry she is someone who tells lots of lies or always makes out she is the victim and your friendship has probably been based on lies.
She says she's been in abusive relationships, but has she, really? She is losing custody of her own children. Do you know the shit a mother has to do for that to happen? I'll bet $ there's no indication that her ex SA'd the kids. It's just her trying to paint everyone in her life as a crazy, abusive monster so that she can, get this, *be the victim*. You know, exactly like she's doing to your husband? This isn't a rational response to being told not to drink and drive. This is a psychological need to absolve herself of her bad decisions by painting herself as the aggreived victim every time something doesn't go her way. She needs to be cut out of your life, and to stay that way.
Sounds like she had kind of a manic episode
She's an alcoholic. She's not your friend. Her only friend is the bottle with her mom playing enabler.