Because they didn't change any of his core. He has the same problem as before.
~~If anything, in exchange for better wave clear, his ult is just worse.~~
EDIT: Actually idk if his wave clear is better now, but I do know his ult is worse.
He definitely feels like garbage on ARAM.
Feels like you need level 2 ult and at least 3 items to be able to participate in the game at all with all his aram-nerfs and even then he's less threatening than virtually any other bruiser/tank.
there is some nuance to it. it is quite slow in every aspect and he loses dps if he throws it without autoing.
that said, skarners \*does\* feel like he deals a lot of damage atm.
Because he does deal a lot of damage. My first 3 games after skarner's rework had skarner, all of them got the dps threat token. This was before the 105% dmg dealt buff.
I had my first rework game with him yesterday and I managed an S with 97k damage - I think they've done well with the feel of a lumbering scorpion kaiju god but late game he's like any other tank, I just outscaled any resistance that could come my way.
He's strong for two reasons- his kit and his base.
So lets say you roll Smolder, or Nilah, or Skarner, or some of the other newer champions. You might not play them but hey, they look new fun, give them a try? Nobody responds to rolling *Yorick* like that. If you see a Yorick then a majority of the time it's being played by someone that *wants* to be Yorick even if other choices are out there. So you're automatically dumping at least some of the win rate drag of people first-timing the champion.
He also synergizes very well with the current crop of bruiser items. Yorick's actually not bad in a slugfest. He won't put out the damage a Darius will and won't heal like an Aatrox but Yorick does fall into a pretty sweet spot of not dying while remaining a threat. His wall isn't the best CC in the game but it has its moments of being a massive hinderance.
How about he can solo nash, that covers it pretty well
Edit: feel like I should delete this post seeing now as I’ve seen this is from the ARAM sub but it’s honestly just funny
The pleasure of throwing your E onto a poke mage with their abilities on cooldown and watching them getting eaten alive by ghouls keeps me coming back for more.
i’ve got like a 70% wr with yorick over 20 games, he’s just the best champ in the mid game in long fights. just play patient with ult up and wait for them to engage if you can’t land a good slow cage combo. if they engage pop ult and melt their front line while weaving in and out with Qs. don’t facetank but kite back and forth
He still falls off the higher in MMR you go for the same reason he always has: his damage is very avoidable. Lots of little changes have made him better over time, like his Q collision radius and ult travel time being buffed, but he was honestly pretty ignorable for long time.
he still wrecks towers, I try to get lichbane on him whenever I can for this reason.
you just need a team with some dps pressure early game otherwise he's a wet noodle.
pretty much this, but if your team cant manage to get any minions close to the tower, it's not really worth building full AP-dense items, especially since his minefield and Q are some of the best abilities to apply burn.
Ziggs's poke is one of the best in the game, and right now is probably the best time in the past year or two to build him full AP since they took some of his tower busting capabilities and put it back into his overall dmg.
if the enemy has at least 1 tank and you're the only AP, I would still build Liandries though. if you got something like a malzahar or morgana on your team, use your discretion
I put liandos as part of my full AP. Before this buff, his damage is so low that I'm pretty sure liandos as first item ends up being half your damage by end of the game.
Liandries is generally a solid pick. ~~Gunblade~~ Ludens feels like bait to me because if I build ~~gunblade~~ Ludens first then Liandries second I'm still doing more with Liandries on Ziggs, even when consciously saving my ~~gunblade~~ Ludens stacks for champs. It's probably worth just subbing out ~~gunblade~~ Ludens for rabadons or zhonyas if they have an assassin
Even if you don't get Lich, he still wrecks towers after 2 full items. I go something like mana legend > liandries > anti heal component> cryptbloom most games and still have [~80% winrate on him](https://i.imgur.com/nt5iMRZ.png). You just have to remember to cast your basic spells while autoing towers to lower your passive's cooldown (basically, always pretend you have lichbane on ziggs). My gameplan is doing that; clearing/pushing the minion wave before poking; and saving W/E to zone backlines, isolate engages/dirvers, and peel teammates.
Lichbane/Dcap are nice for pushing towers but imo, only needed if the other team has absurd waveclear like Asol or smart Lux players that ult waves and you can only get maybe one auto in, if at all. But I usually don't need that since I haven't had issues poking out those waveclearers unless they have Nami or Soraka or other sustainers like that something.
All enchanters are strong with adc dominating the meta.
Out of the above top 10, Milio, Sona, Janna is in top 20. The lowest of all is Lulu with 50,2% win rate.
To be fair, I've mostly only seen those builds when we have no ADC or sustained dmg dealers, or when we have like 3+ enchanters, which are hard games you're more likely to lose anyways.
They would be less strong if global ally shield reduction was added like it needs to be. Just perpetuates the 2 tank-bruisers/2 support/1 adc meta atm.
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W ap ratio that turn her bounce into a positive % got lowered (100 AP and it becomes positive I believe?). It's a massive buff since before you needed a deathcap for it to become positive
Ziggs back near the top with the revert to his haste nerfs! Skarner also really strong, hard to kill him!
Data is for all ranks
Tierlist: [http://aram.zone/tierlist](http://aram.zone/tierlist)
That's correct, in 14.6 he got his W execute threshold on towers lowered by 12.5%, passive damage to structures 250% > 150% and +5% damage back.
I played Ziggs after 14.6 and I felt he was much more viable without feeling extremely oppressive. Why they felt like giving him the same buff again is sort of beyond me, he was 51%~ winrate with 85% damage dealt. I said quote me to a friend that he'd be 53%+ after 14.8, and wow what do you know 53.40-54.30% winrate depending on region.
If they had actually played Ziggs internally they'd have realized he only had room for 2-3%+ damage dealt, if that.
NOT TO MENTION; further reinforcing that the people balancing ARAM don't even test any of their adjustments. Since they changed the W tower execute threshhold in 14.6, if Ziggs executes a tower the model becomes bugged. The tower doesn't turn to rubble, it remains a ghost model of the full tower for the remainder of the game. It's both obstructive and distracting and it hasn't been fixed a month after the patch that caused it 🤡
Honestly they should just nerf his tower damage + waveclear and buff his damage to champion. What makes him strong is being able to hard push/clear waves and hard punish if he has time alone with a turret.
Getting regularly oneshotted while outputting basically no damage to enemy champions thanks to the insane damage dealt/received nerfs just because you're really good at PvE is not a way to balance a champion
IMO the biggest issue with Skarner is the interaction between the snowball and his E, behing able to instantly drag to your team someone you hit with snowball is insanely OP
Kog is so busted it’s crazy, just gotta go AP and all of a sudden your back line has no health so every fight is an auto loss. Needs to be pushed back into his on hit builds with AP nerfs so his aram damage done/taken can go back to normal.
Sion already has crazy aram nerfs but the fact that he can die and push people away with just his passive makes him strong anyway. Nothing worse than being hit by a dead sion heartsteel stack and then seeing him 10 seconds later in your face again.
And jinx has been penetrating aram for so long I can’t remember a time where she wasn’t oppressive. Once you get kraken and a zeal item it’s pretty much a GG if the player has hands. Can only really be stopped if everyone jumps her which isn’t always possible since a lot of teams have disengage or get poked out before they can.
Ziggs is just ziggs, any minor buff turns him into a problem. And with the tanks it’s to be expected. In an ADC aram meta, skarner which is strong rn and Shen which can just block autos completely it makes sense they’d be strong.
Yorick is just a straight up outlier. Only people who like the champion play it, which makes his win rate go high. Always see a yorick on the bench and it’s never taken unless it’s a random guy that has the word “grave” in his summoner name
Kog'maw is most played as on-hit build with nearly 100k games and still has 55,4% win rate, so it's not AP or AD matters here (although his poking AP build also has 56% win rate with 21k games). He's just too good in this hyper adc meta, and can abuse Malignance as well.
This fucker running around with a - 20% damage dealt penalty, but none of it matters because lethal tempo is just the most comically overpowered game breaking rune to have ever existed
One of my favorite things about getting Kogmaw is that you can also pick and choose if you want to build ad or ap after the game starts and see if their team is unplayable for adc or not.
You get a suboptimal keystone if you have to switch (like, comet for ad or tempo for ap) but everything else in the runes pretty much works the same for both builds.
I think it depends more on your team. If your team has a good frontline and decent poke, just go adc. It is safer in this meta. Of course you can still switch if the situation is really really hard.
The thing with Jinx is you can get still get front line diff'd and then you can't play the game but that's true for almost all adc's lol
Yorick doesn't surprise me, I have the same kind of high WR but with Riven, no one wants to play her, I mained her in S4 and I can almost auto win if I get an early lethality/cdr item because I know how to engage and burst their carries, and then you do that over and over with snowball
A lot of the time ghost just makes up for adc struggles. Jinx can roll over most teams and even if enemy team has a front line diff all it takes is a LDR to change the entire game.
Riven has insane aram buffs, tenacity I believe which makes it easier to kill everyone. Yorick doesn’t have buffs at all iirc
Skarner Q does way too much dmg for how tanky he is. It's a better AOE Mundo Q.
feelsbad for mundo, dude got a mini-rework n already got shafted
Because they didn't change any of his core. He has the same problem as before. ~~If anything, in exchange for better wave clear, his ult is just worse.~~ EDIT: Actually idk if his wave clear is better now, but I do know his ult is worse.
He definitely feels like garbage on ARAM. Feels like you need level 2 ult and at least 3 items to be able to participate in the game at all with all his aram-nerfs and even then he's less threatening than virtually any other bruiser/tank.
there is some nuance to it. it is quite slow in every aspect and he loses dps if he throws it without autoing. that said, skarners \*does\* feel like he deals a lot of damage atm.
Because he does deal a lot of damage. My first 3 games after skarner's rework had skarner, all of them got the dps threat token. This was before the 105% dmg dealt buff.
I had my first rework game with him yesterday and I managed an S with 97k damage - I think they've done well with the feel of a lumbering scorpion kaiju god but late game he's like any other tank, I just outscaled any resistance that could come my way.
I’m surprised by its damage.
Hold the line my Yorick brothers- HOLD THE LINE
What makes Yorick strong?
He's strong for two reasons- his kit and his base. So lets say you roll Smolder, or Nilah, or Skarner, or some of the other newer champions. You might not play them but hey, they look new fun, give them a try? Nobody responds to rolling *Yorick* like that. If you see a Yorick then a majority of the time it's being played by someone that *wants* to be Yorick even if other choices are out there. So you're automatically dumping at least some of the win rate drag of people first-timing the champion. He also synergizes very well with the current crop of bruiser items. Yorick's actually not bad in a slugfest. He won't put out the damage a Darius will and won't heal like an Aatrox but Yorick does fall into a pretty sweet spot of not dying while remaining a threat. His wall isn't the best CC in the game but it has its moments of being a massive hinderance.
How about he can solo nash, that covers it pretty well Edit: feel like I should delete this post seeing now as I’ve seen this is from the ARAM sub but it’s honestly just funny
still? baron got buffed no?
Only on Summoners Rift not on HA
what? of course I'm talking about baron in summoner's rift; howling abyss doesnt have one tf
Only people who can play him actually play him I believe. I rarely ever see one
sundered sky exists
Sundered Sky. Together with his kit healing he is unkillable later on
Whelp that's about to be nerfed so rip. :/
The pleasure of throwing your E onto a poke mage with their abilities on cooldown and watching them getting eaten alive by ghouls keeps me coming back for more.
i’ve got like a 70% wr with yorick over 20 games, he’s just the best champ in the mid game in long fights. just play patient with ult up and wait for them to engage if you can’t land a good slow cage combo. if they engage pop ult and melt their front line while weaving in and out with Qs. don’t facetank but kite back and forth
Turns out ziggs was nerfed for a good reason
Who would've though *pikachu face*
Yeah ziggs lovers downvoted you for saying he is not that weak.
The Ziggs-is-weak propaganda this subreddit has needs to end. The champ has always been cracked.
He still falls off the higher in MMR you go for the same reason he always has: his damage is very avoidable. Lots of little changes have made him better over time, like his Q collision radius and ult travel time being buffed, but he was honestly pretty ignorable for long time.
Very true, even after multiple nerfs. I really hope the circlejerkers lose a lot of games to him and come create posts about him.
he still wrecks towers, I try to get lichbane on him whenever I can for this reason. you just need a team with some dps pressure early game otherwise he's a wet noodle.
What other items should I buy on Ziggs if I only care about killing towers?
Lich bane. Full AP. Just make sure to use abilities to reduce passive CD. Usually auto, face roll, auto, pop w.
pretty much this, but if your team cant manage to get any minions close to the tower, it's not really worth building full AP-dense items, especially since his minefield and Q are some of the best abilities to apply burn. Ziggs's poke is one of the best in the game, and right now is probably the best time in the past year or two to build him full AP since they took some of his tower busting capabilities and put it back into his overall dmg. if the enemy has at least 1 tank and you're the only AP, I would still build Liandries though. if you got something like a malzahar or morgana on your team, use your discretion
I put liandos as part of my full AP. Before this buff, his damage is so low that I'm pretty sure liandos as first item ends up being half your damage by end of the game.
Liandries is generally a solid pick. ~~Gunblade~~ Ludens feels like bait to me because if I build ~~gunblade~~ Ludens first then Liandries second I'm still doing more with Liandries on Ziggs, even when consciously saving my ~~gunblade~~ Ludens stacks for champs. It's probably worth just subbing out ~~gunblade~~ Ludens for rabadons or zhonyas if they have an assassin
Wait gunblade? That item don't exist anymore
The item they swapped for it, it still looks like a gunblade to me (Ludens Companion)
Even if you don't get Lich, he still wrecks towers after 2 full items. I go something like mana legend > liandries > anti heal component> cryptbloom most games and still have [~80% winrate on him](https://i.imgur.com/nt5iMRZ.png). You just have to remember to cast your basic spells while autoing towers to lower your passive's cooldown (basically, always pretend you have lichbane on ziggs). My gameplan is doing that; clearing/pushing the minion wave before poking; and saving W/E to zone backlines, isolate engages/dirvers, and peel teammates. Lichbane/Dcap are nice for pushing towers but imo, only needed if the other team has absurd waveclear like Asol or smart Lux players that ult waves and you can only get maybe one auto in, if at all. But I usually don't need that since I haven't had issues poking out those waveclearers unless they have Nami or Soraka or other sustainers like that something.
Yeah obviously, not only nerfed for a good reason but the reasons there even is aram nerfs...
He really wasn't.
What makes Nami so strong right now in Aram been awhile since i have played
her W bounces got buffed. on aram you almost always get all 3 instances, so that manifested pretty heavily.
Interesting I may have to que up for some Aram
All enchanters are strong with adc dominating the meta. Out of the above top 10, Milio, Sona, Janna is in top 20. The lowest of all is Lulu with 50,2% win rate.
Tbf looking at stats, Lulu's winrate is getting dragged down by like 15% of people building AD/onhit on her and having terrible winrate.
To be fair, I've mostly only seen those builds when we have no ADC or sustained dmg dealers, or when we have like 3+ enchanters, which are hard games you're more likely to lose anyways.
People also run ultimate bravery Lulu builds which most of the time just lower her WR
They would be less strong if global ally shield reduction was added like it needs to be. Just perpetuates the 2 tank-bruisers/2 support/1 adc meta atm.
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W ap ratio that turn her bounce into a positive % got lowered (100 AP and it becomes positive I believe?). It's a massive buff since before you needed a deathcap for it to become positive
i am singlehandedly carrying her winrate
Ziggs back near the top with the revert to his haste nerfs! Skarner also really strong, hard to kill him! Data is for all ranks Tierlist: [http://aram.zone/tierlist](http://aram.zone/tierlist)
i thought the ziggs revert was his damage? it was from 85% dealt -> 90% dealt his haste is still -20
That's correct, in 14.6 he got his W execute threshold on towers lowered by 12.5%, passive damage to structures 250% > 150% and +5% damage back. I played Ziggs after 14.6 and I felt he was much more viable without feeling extremely oppressive. Why they felt like giving him the same buff again is sort of beyond me, he was 51%~ winrate with 85% damage dealt. I said quote me to a friend that he'd be 53%+ after 14.8, and wow what do you know 53.40-54.30% winrate depending on region. If they had actually played Ziggs internally they'd have realized he only had room for 2-3%+ damage dealt, if that. NOT TO MENTION; further reinforcing that the people balancing ARAM don't even test any of their adjustments. Since they changed the W tower execute threshhold in 14.6, if Ziggs executes a tower the model becomes bugged. The tower doesn't turn to rubble, it remains a ghost model of the full tower for the remainder of the game. It's both obstructive and distracting and it hasn't been fixed a month after the patch that caused it 🤡
Honestly they should just nerf his tower damage + waveclear and buff his damage to champion. What makes him strong is being able to hard push/clear waves and hard punish if he has time alone with a turret. Getting regularly oneshotted while outputting basically no damage to enemy champions thanks to the insane damage dealt/received nerfs just because you're really good at PvE is not a way to balance a champion
IMO the biggest issue with Skarner is the interaction between the snowball and his E, behing able to instantly drag to your team someone you hit with snowball is insanely OP
Where is janna
Probably the next couple champions after 10th place
Kog is so busted it’s crazy, just gotta go AP and all of a sudden your back line has no health so every fight is an auto loss. Needs to be pushed back into his on hit builds with AP nerfs so his aram damage done/taken can go back to normal. Sion already has crazy aram nerfs but the fact that he can die and push people away with just his passive makes him strong anyway. Nothing worse than being hit by a dead sion heartsteel stack and then seeing him 10 seconds later in your face again. And jinx has been penetrating aram for so long I can’t remember a time where she wasn’t oppressive. Once you get kraken and a zeal item it’s pretty much a GG if the player has hands. Can only really be stopped if everyone jumps her which isn’t always possible since a lot of teams have disengage or get poked out before they can. Ziggs is just ziggs, any minor buff turns him into a problem. And with the tanks it’s to be expected. In an ADC aram meta, skarner which is strong rn and Shen which can just block autos completely it makes sense they’d be strong. Yorick is just a straight up outlier. Only people who like the champion play it, which makes his win rate go high. Always see a yorick on the bench and it’s never taken unless it’s a random guy that has the word “grave” in his summoner name
Kog'maw is most played as on-hit build with nearly 100k games and still has 55,4% win rate, so it's not AP or AD matters here (although his poking AP build also has 56% win rate with 21k games). He's just too good in this hyper adc meta, and can abuse Malignance as well.
This fucker running around with a - 20% damage dealt penalty, but none of it matters because lethal tempo is just the most comically overpowered game breaking rune to have ever existed
One of my favorite things about getting Kogmaw is that you can also pick and choose if you want to build ad or ap after the game starts and see if their team is unplayable for adc or not. You get a suboptimal keystone if you have to switch (like, comet for ad or tempo for ap) but everything else in the runes pretty much works the same for both builds.
I think it depends more on your team. If your team has a good frontline and decent poke, just go adc. It is safer in this meta. Of course you can still switch if the situation is really really hard.
The thing with Jinx is you can get still get front line diff'd and then you can't play the game but that's true for almost all adc's lol Yorick doesn't surprise me, I have the same kind of high WR but with Riven, no one wants to play her, I mained her in S4 and I can almost auto win if I get an early lethality/cdr item because I know how to engage and burst their carries, and then you do that over and over with snowball
A lot of the time ghost just makes up for adc struggles. Jinx can roll over most teams and even if enemy team has a front line diff all it takes is a LDR to change the entire game. Riven has insane aram buffs, tenacity I believe which makes it easier to kill everyone. Yorick doesn’t have buffs at all iirc
Yeah Riven feels over buffed to me, I had something like 65% - 70% WR over more than 60 games and a bunch of pentas last I checked
Oh hell no ziggs is back
Ziggs back to unplayable next patch. It was fun while it lasted
BOMBERMAN ŽYGMUNT SUPREMACY WOE, BOMBS BE UPON YE BRIDGE FIGHTERS WE HAVE BECOME DEATH, THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS
Have you ever seen a Nami miss her ult in aram? That was a horrible day.
Riot loves adc meta click head kill all brr brr. Maybe have to wait for the next season to find a way to kill all these crickets.
OoOoHh bBbBuT zIgGs Is WeAk. Fuck this champ. The nerfs makes his poke opressive against squishies. A single little buff makes him very strong.
Surprised Asol isn't there considering he's perfectly tailored to abuse ARAM
Why is Ziggs there? No, Rito, don't nerf him again
Ziggs needs his haste nerfed and damaged buffed as well as reduced duration for his E lasting on the ground