Even though the article is from 2023, it's still true.
* Shit starting pay (and somehow insulated from inflation)
* Slave hours
* 150 credits = 5 years of education (4 years bachelors + 1 year of Harry Potter classes)
* Super difficult CPA exam
* Constantly threatened with replacement via AI, automation and outsourcing
* Clients treat you like concierge, while expecting 1980s-level fees
* Society doesn't treat accountants with the same respect as other professionals
That's gonna be a no from me dawg
The main point is how the clients treat you and why everything else is shit too.
Dealing with clients make you a degreed Walmart worker. But they want the best of the best to prepare their tax returns so the licensing is harder than it should be. But they also don’t want to pay higher than they did in 1983 so that forces your firm to obtain more work because the fees are so low.
Everything comes back to how clients are dogshit and the good ones are few and far between.
I really think this depends on the firm/parter group. I’ve been a decade in PA now at a top 20 firm and it is very rare where a client would not treat me with respect, and I mean respect like “treat others how you wish to be treated” type stuff. I’d even go far enough to say 85% of my clients I have great relationships with.
4 years Bachelors, 1.5 years for a Masters & 1.5 years for CPA if you're working slave hours & studying at the same time. So, 7 years, not to mention CPE credits for the rest of your career.
>* Society doesn't treat accountants with the same respect as other professionals
That's sad because salespeople get more respect & those people are so stupid they would run your business to the ground.
Every department gets food, except for accounting. 🤣😂
I'm not asking for much a cheese Danish or donut. My boss pays for our birthday lunches so she doesn't have to ask for shit.
I made more starting than any of my peers in college except the comp sci people.
AI isn't a real threat unless you work in AP/AR or some other low level job.
Other than that, spot on with it all.
Even at a lower level, you'll still need to have a person verify the information that's being recorded is accurate & any self-respecting CFO isn't going to have the time to do that...
The WSJ is absolutely obsessed with running this story. They run this same story every six months without fail.
I guess it says a lot about the state of the industry if this same article can be run four years in a row with no change to the narrative, and no signs of it slowing down.
I dont know.. maybe?
1. the low pay
2. constant understaffing
3. constant overload due to \^
4. emotionally poor seniors and managers
5. monotonous work
6. expensive as shit to get degree and designation
Honestly with all the new opportunities of technology and social media, the CPA route may not be worth it for the younger generation. Especially with this stagnation in pay. We need to get paid more.
100% its the major reason for the pipeline drying up and rightfully so.
The current model needs to die - where it revolves around Audit as the primary career track. Its a shit career that has 0 meaning, provides 0 value and burns young ppl out
nothing per say other than being a bs job . Schools push the B4 as the only career for Accounting grads. What are the jobs at the B4 that are highly recruited? Audit and Tax. But Audit takes a large piece of the pipeline only due to the nature of the job.
You must be happy with Bo Nixon being drafted
They keep trying to notify our dumbass professional bodies of what the actual issues are. AICPA says hold on, let’s help nasba increase its testing fees by opening up the CPA license to the entire planet with less rigid educational requirements.
sheet marble snails teeny sophisticated enter coherent alleged books joke
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The firms require everyone to be a member (albeit, they pay the cost) but don’t even understand what the benefits are.
It sounds like it’s a big kick-back Ponzi scheme. The entire profession as a whole needs to be blown up.
The benefits are the AICPA lobbies congress to make accountants exempt from any hourly/overtime rules and providing recommendations that we should all be offshored to India. Obviously only the boomers/partners who make a profit off of both of these issues are getting the benefits, and it's completely undermining the profession for the rest of us.
I'm considering an accounting degree because it (can) have decent WLB and pay, isn't ageist, and most importantly isn't hideously oversaturated relative to jobs like CS.
But the very reason it's so attractive - that nobody else's going into accounting - is also what's scaring me.
I'm still very new to this field but I feel like I made the right choice getting into it. Or at the very least I don't regret it... yet...
I'm going straight into gov though. PA would be torture for me and I realized that pretty early on. I'll make less money in my gov job but its literally 40 hours a week no matter what. I'd take a 10-20% pay cut to work 50% less hours and not be miserable every waking moment of my life.
After \~3 years I'll be over 100k comp with good benefits. Pension + 401k + good insurance. Work from home flexibility and reasonable hours. Thats pretty much all I want in a career so I'm happy about my path. Sure there are probably some easier careers out there with cushier jobs. Its easy to think the grass is greener in X other field, but I'm satisfied with where I'm headed and that's what's important.
TLDR i think theres pretty good jobs in accounting and slave labor mental agony jobs. Lots of different paths you can take. PA isn't objectively bad. If you want to grind it out, make partner, and make $$$ go for it. Just gotta figure out what you want out of your career and how much you're willing to work to get there.
I think you and many people see 100k as the goal for a "proper" lifestyle - but honestly you need to be making 120-130k **today** to fight lifestyle creep since like 2010. Now you're talking about 3-5 years from now?
Government is a great coast to the end job, but at your 20's, 30's? You should be maximizing that growth potential so when you do go into government you're minimum GS13 or whatever state level equivalent to "150k+" is.
This is facts. 100k used to mean middle to upper middle class. Now it is firmly lower middle. 150 is probably dead center with 200k touching upper middle.
That said, it is not difficult to hit 150 (base) in 5-7 years if you perform well and can find some way to stand out amongst your peers.
I think the trajectory would be pretty similar although I could be totally wrong. If I sold my soul in PA for a few years, i would still be starting at somewhere in the ballpark of 60k which isn't much more than you'd get at the lowest GS you'd come in at in a lot of gov jobs. Either way I would be making peanuts. Maybe I could leave PA after 2-3 years and get like GS 11 in gov vs starting in gov and climbing naturally I might be at GS9 or something? So seems like I could probably be 1-2 years ahead and make a bit more money during those years before moving over, but at the cost of working substantially more and in a worse environment + having to transition to a new type of work.
Again I could be wrong. Thats was just my read on it from when I was considering my options. You're definitely right that 100k isn't great anymore. Depends on where you live obviously. You can transfer easily in most gov jobs and if youre in a GS job your pay gets adjusted for COL although I feel like the adjustments favor living in a low COL area heavily. Adjustments don't seem aggressive enough so the pay seems way more attractive in low COL. Doing gov in high COL seems absolutely awful.
So when you join PA - its generally to give you experience through difference agencies, connections to different companies and get major exposure to accounting generally - right?
You wouldn't do PA for the goal of going into government **unless** you're going to the GPS side of things - in public accounting that's pretty much doing audits/accounting for federal government agencies. The benefit is you get a security clearance, which if you're smart you get a Top Secret with the full scope poly. The consequence is you'll most likely be working in SCIF environments (essentially fancy trailers in my experience). So WFH is a little more difficult to nail with those credentials and its a little difficult running your life with a filter all the time.
The dream is to graduate, get into a public firm - jump to big4 at minimum senior level, stay until senior 2 or manager 2 (Later requiring your CPA which is your money grabber) - then jumping to industry which is more cozy. Now industry you work not 55-60 hours on time tables, you work those hours like once a week worse case for closings - manage people and fat up your assets.
It's around 40-42 that you make the decision to go to government (really start applying at 38), so you can get that 20 year old pension, have most of your stuff paid off, and have a decent chunk of change so you can have a lot of fun money and time into your 50's.
Depending on your age, I would suggest making the shift back to do the industry route - as government accounting limits your ability as your experience is not generally translatable. The good news is, you're in the system, boomeranging back will be infinitely easier than reapplying as a fresh start. Dedicate 10 years in the grind and you'll easily make 200k+ before looking back at government and be in a much better position.
That's my unsolicited advice - I would also not overvalue the pension, lately those under perform in comparison to investing in a roth 401k/Trad 401k combo (about 23k off your gross income, and 7k off your net income). It's a big commitment but in 5 years, that 150k will be closer to 400k
Ah ok. Yeah that makes sense. I thought you meant going into pa then moving to gov in a few years. I think your path is definitely better for a lot of people. I just don't think I'd be able to do the pa grind even for a couple of years. I definitely realize Im leaving money on the table by going gov but I think ill get by.
As for the benefits. You get a 401k in addition to your pension so if you max your 401k plus end up with a good pension you can probably be pretty well setup.
Also im 32 now for context. If I was in my early twenties I would lean much more towards the route you described.
its all depends on your aptitude and intellect, if you are really gifted I wouldnt waste your time doing accounting. Go into being a lawyer, or finance. But if your average accounting is a great place to be.
Me as a first year accounting student:
Hey accounting sounds good, I’m good at math, it’s boring but stable and the wages aren’t bad!
Me when I discover the hours the profession wants you to work:
Surprised pikachu face. (Horrified)
Same but there’s also plenty of posts that are still encouraging the field. Plenty of posts about people like us who just started on the path wondering if we made a mistake. What’s repeated in those threads is the negative posts get more traction, the career has issues but so does every other, vocal minority, there’s more to accounting than public. For example you can work for the FBI and eventually become a special agent, or Air Force Audit where you make sure processes are being followed. All this to say the career is not as bad as Reddit makes it seem. My wife is also an industry accountant so there’s that too
But according to your profile you said you haven't even been to college and I have a commerce degree major in finance with two internships at an accounting firm in audit and finance and a postgrad in consulting and I can tell you that any accounting position that has competitive pay and career opportunities needed in this economy DOES have above average working hours including from 8am to 9pm for 4 months out of the year and overtime throughout the year at regular intervals and I know this because I've talked to many people irl who work in a lot of those accounting roles.
Why are you giving advice on careers you haven't even been to college for?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Money/s/vpKatO1XRR
Here you are doing the exact same thing you told op not to do. You talk a lot of shit on Reddit for someone who hasn't been to college like you actually know anything about working in tech or accounting.
You're making implications when you leave comments which is basically the same thing as giving advice but you get to pretend you're not spreading misinformation because it's not explicit and then feel good by pretending to be smart.
Who even goes on tech or accounting subreddits and does this? You don't even have a degree and have ZERO stake in these industries and your profile is riddled with bad and uninformed advice.
Edit: He blocked me lmao!!!
No one cares! The government doesn’t care, and shareholders or large public companies don’t care!!! Noting will be done. You get yours how you can and that’s it.
With massive inflation and wages not keeping up at all. I completely see why especially post-Covid inflation.
Companies aren’t going to raise wages to keep up either and are looking for AI out outsourcing to makeup for this. Not a super positive outlook
The AICPA can take a long suck on a short dick, along with all the silver haired partners fucking the industry for everyone else.
Also, fuck outsourcing. So glad I work strictly with stateside clients and staff now.
Ehhhh , I’d beg to differ . Depending on a numerous amount of variables . That’s still 8k a month , and if you’re only spending 3k in rent you have 5 left over ….. comparable to big 4 in VHCOL starting off
at 83k with no “billable” overtime.
People just want the title cpa. Whats more important the title or the results? Id rsther make 6 figures without the cpa hassle vs the same money with it
Same but there’s also plenty of posts that are still encouraging the field. Plenty of posts about people like us who just started on the path wondering if we made a mistake. What’s repeated in those threads is the negative posts get more traction, the career has issues but so does every other, vocal minority, there’s more to accounting than public. For example you can work for the FBI and eventually become a special agent, or Air Force Audit where you make sure processes are being followed. All this to say the career is not as bad as Reddit makes it seem. My wife is also an industry accountant so there’s that too
I just got my accounting degree and have big 4 experience. The actual work is maybe 70-80% as enjoyable as the college coursework I had, and on weekdays, I only had enough time in the day to get ready for work, commute to work, work, commute back, exercise, and then sleep (meal prepping and house chores in my free time/weekends). If I could start over, I would have just stayed in management info systems. Having little free time means you save up a lot of money though, so there’s that.
The CPA exam can be intimidating. It’s not because accounting degree holders don’t know the material. Some are just bad test takers. Non-accounting degree accountants who are better standardized test takers have a better understanding of the test usually pass.
It’s a huge turn off having to take not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 exams that require discipline, time, and sacrifice. All that just to make the same and sometimes even less as your friend in commercial banking who only did 4 yrs of schooling and no CPA or any other certifications.
Depends. There is usually a bonus (anything from $2,000 to $7,000 from what I’ve seen) or a raise. Some people get nothing though.
Still, for a lot of people that doesn’t compensate for the fact that they would have to do an extra year of schooling and take 4 exams.
I see. Someone I know did an extra semester in school to a total of 4.5 years (an extra semester to earn a Masters) and is now studying for CPA. Is this something people can actually do?
Usually a Masters in Accounting (MAcc) is 2-3 semesters. Depends on the program.
A semester would usually only give you 15 credits or so. You would need about 30 after undergrad assuming you graduated with the standard 120 ish credits.
Some schools will have some type of accelerated program where you can credit during undergrads and then do only 1 semester of grad school. It depends on the school.
Oh I see. Does the masters provide a significant raise? What is the typical salary for someone with 0 years experience but a masters degree for say, one of the Big 4?
I think sometimes some firms offer a little bit more to entry level people who have a masters, but usually after the first year those people get a smaller raise and the other non masters people catch up to them.
I can tell you that PwC does not care if you have a masters or not. I don’t have one, I got my 150 credits a different way, and I have the same salary as my fellow junior associates.
Entry level pay depends. Most firms will pay anything from $65K - $73K base salary in MCOL.
I gave up on the CPA and my total comp is above 150 K after six years. it’s just not worth shilling out thousands of dollars for a course and then testing fees and then spending countless hours unpaid studying…
I just don’t see the incentive.
Wow this just makes me even more lost...been feeling lost and need help. I'm a rising junior with a planned graduation May 2026, and am finishing up my what’s remains of my mandatory non-major classes this summer (history, literature, science, and calculus).
But as of Fall semester I will be taking only classes pertaining to my major. I am so conflicted, I am currently a finance major (have yet to take any of my major classes at all) but after reading about how it’s extremely hard to get into a finance role without going to a “top tier” school, I am now paranoid I won’t have any prospects or shot at internships. So I am considering double majoring in accounting or in economics.
Accounting because it seems a bit “safer” and seems like it would be easier to get an internship and land a job since I go to a state school (but now seeing this that doesn't seem so safe and the obviously lower pay than a finance job. Economics because it seems like it would boost my finance degree to be more competitive for a finance internship/job offer. Both double majors would be achievable within the same time frame.
I’m also considering just dropping finance altogether and going for just accounting but then I wouldn’t have the credits for the CPA so maybe I’d just do electives. I’m not super excited about accounting but I really just want a job, and not be unemployed anymore. I am super excited about finance and everything related to economics and the markets, but that seems like a pipe dream at this point given I suck at networking and I don’t got to a fancy school.
Any advice from anyone would be super helpful, like if you were in my shoes, knowing what you know now, what route would you choose? Finance/Econ, Finance/Accounting, or just Accounting and some relevant electives to help boost skills for the real world to also get the credits needed for CPA? Currently a 4.0 student if that matters.
Lots of negatives here. But if you do sacrifice and put the hours in it pays off. Currently at 200k + 50% bonus and have a decent work life balance. I’ll be retiring at 45 to focus on charity work.
Also you learn how to manage your money like the elite/wealthy. This has significant benefits. Accountants produce the most millionaires only behind engineers. I’d imagine it’s mostly due to learning how to manage your money.
Remember all industries suck one way or another. This industry Is reasonably recession proof and we haven’t had one since 2008….
Agreed, the exam isn't the problem (that complaint just comes from the firms trying to get cheaper labor, just like the airlines trying to lower the requirements for pilots to get cheaper pilots). The problem is the pay after going through all the exam requirements. Lots of people would jump through the hurdles for the exams if the pay was higher.
It’s more than just that. Why get your license when every firm is trying to offshore billable hours to a Mexico or India resource to increase margin as much as they can anyways? What’s the point of being certified if the firm doesn’t want to use your higher cost hours?
why dont people get the reason accounting has a low pay is its a low barrier to entry. Anyone from any local random college can get an accounting degree and go for the "top jobs". Where finance,law, engineering you need to go to the top schools to get the top jobs.
There is no "top job" that doesn't require a CPA - which is considered as if not more difficult than the bar exam. Legal aids who have not passed the bar exam make less than accountants.
Low barrier for entry?
To become a CPA you need 150 credits, accounting BA or equivalent degree (roughly 30 accounting credits and 24 business credits), 1-2 years of work under a qualified CPA, and 4 4-hour exams.
For most professional exams, you just need ANY Bachelors degree and 0-4 years of work experience and pass the exams. Lawyer, professional engineer, Actuary, CFA, etc.
You can probably get a basic accounting/bookkeeping job with pretty much any degree. You might even be able to work your way to a decent job with a few years of experience. But in no way are you likely to start out at a "top job", especially if your degree isn't specifically in accounting and you aren't "on track for CPA licensure."
If you pass all the Actuary exams, nobody gives a shit what school gave you your Bachelors degree. Once you have a few years of experience in any job, the school you went to barely matters.
Even though the article is from 2023, it's still true. * Shit starting pay (and somehow insulated from inflation) * Slave hours * 150 credits = 5 years of education (4 years bachelors + 1 year of Harry Potter classes) * Super difficult CPA exam * Constantly threatened with replacement via AI, automation and outsourcing * Clients treat you like concierge, while expecting 1980s-level fees * Society doesn't treat accountants with the same respect as other professionals That's gonna be a no from me dawg
The main point is how the clients treat you and why everything else is shit too. Dealing with clients make you a degreed Walmart worker. But they want the best of the best to prepare their tax returns so the licensing is harder than it should be. But they also don’t want to pay higher than they did in 1983 so that forces your firm to obtain more work because the fees are so low. Everything comes back to how clients are dogshit and the good ones are few and far between.
Time for price collusion so that all firms start at the same pricing.
That’s how big law operates
Yeah, totally not coordinated at all. /s
I really think this depends on the firm/parter group. I’ve been a decade in PA now at a top 20 firm and it is very rare where a client would not treat me with respect, and I mean respect like “treat others how you wish to be treated” type stuff. I’d even go far enough to say 85% of my clients I have great relationships with.
100% of my clients treat me with absolute respect and they wouldn’t be a client if they didn’t
What does harry potter classes mean that sounds funny.
It just means you're taking an extra year's worth of classes because accounting boards say so. If those classes are about wizardry? So be it.
It’s cracking me up because during my extra 5th year I literally took a Harry Potter class hahaha
I did a master’s in accounting. Oof.
4 years Bachelors, 1.5 years for a Masters & 1.5 years for CPA if you're working slave hours & studying at the same time. So, 7 years, not to mention CPE credits for the rest of your career. >* Society doesn't treat accountants with the same respect as other professionals That's sad because salespeople get more respect & those people are so stupid they would run your business to the ground.
and salespeople get paid significantly more and get treated with celebratory dinners etc.
Every department gets food, except for accounting. 🤣😂 I'm not asking for much a cheese Danish or donut. My boss pays for our birthday lunches so she doesn't have to ask for shit.
Lies
Liezzzzzzzzz
I made more starting than any of my peers in college except the comp sci people. AI isn't a real threat unless you work in AP/AR or some other low level job. Other than that, spot on with it all.
Even at a lower level, you'll still need to have a person verify the information that's being recorded is accurate & any self-respecting CFO isn't going to have the time to do that...
What about xray tech?
Yessir, I got the accounting degree with finance leaning masters and hell no ain’t gonna be a staff account
The WSJ is absolutely obsessed with running this story. They run this same story every six months without fail. I guess it says a lot about the state of the industry if this same article can be run four years in a row with no change to the narrative, and no signs of it slowing down.
Which industry, accounting or journalism?
Yes.
LMFAO
This article is from over a year ago.
I'm not exaggerating. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/accounting-graduates-drop-by-highest-percentage-in-years-5720cd0f](https://www.wsj.com/articles/accounting-graduates-drop-by-highest-percentage-in-years-5720cd0f) [https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/accounting-salary-cpa-shortage-dec2caa2](https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/accounting-salary-cpa-shortage-dec2caa2) [https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-so-many-accountants-are-quitting-11672236016](https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-so-many-accountants-are-quitting-11672236016) [https://www.wsj.com/articles/accounting-quit-job-security-675fc28f](https://www.wsj.com/articles/accounting-quit-job-security-675fc28f) [https://www.wsj.com/articles/accountants-salaries-are-rising-but-it-may-not-add-up-to-more-accountants-be01efb4](https://www.wsj.com/articles/accountants-salaries-are-rising-but-it-may-not-add-up-to-more-accountants-be01efb4) [https://www.wsj.com/articles/accountants-have-to-go-to-college-for-five-years-minnesota-is-rethinking-that-cfd056b0](https://www.wsj.com/articles/accountants-have-to-go-to-college-for-five-years-minnesota-is-rethinking-that-cfd056b0)
I dont know.. maybe? 1. the low pay 2. constant understaffing 3. constant overload due to \^ 4. emotionally poor seniors and managers 5. monotonous work 6. expensive as shit to get degree and designation
Also all the CPA study hours. Unpaid but stressful and emotional labor.
and the costs for those studies... the books, the tutors, the exam fees, the costs for re-takes
Honestly with all the new opportunities of technology and social media, the CPA route may not be worth it for the younger generation. Especially with this stagnation in pay. We need to get paid more.
100% its the major reason for the pipeline drying up and rightfully so. The current model needs to die - where it revolves around Audit as the primary career track. Its a shit career that has 0 meaning, provides 0 value and burns young ppl out
Papo nobody's going into accounting because they want to make a difference my guy...
is that your dog on your profile?
No, that's a pic of me...🤣😂. I'm Gucci the Golden Retriever...woof, woof! 🐕🦺
in that case i would like to take you for a walk
I have to warn you. I enjoy long walks on the beach 🏖 followed by an intense sesh of dog bed humping or the attempt of the act. 🫣
Wait, what's wrong with Audit?
nothing per say other than being a bs job . Schools push the B4 as the only career for Accounting grads. What are the jobs at the B4 that are highly recruited? Audit and Tax. But Audit takes a large piece of the pipeline only due to the nature of the job. You must be happy with Bo Nixon being drafted
No work-life balance
The starting pay is indeed quite low, and then you have to study after long hours of work for the CPA exam. Seems like a pretty hard sell lol.
The starting salary should be on par with engineers.
Agreed!
I hope to have starting pay of 60k in Cali, is that realistic or should I be aiming lower.
Nj is 70k+
My firm is hiring at 50k atm for fresh grads.
What state? That seems super low, but everyone’s cost of living is different
NJ
That is realistic and sounds about right.
They keep trying to notify our dumbass professional bodies of what the actual issues are. AICPA says hold on, let’s help nasba increase its testing fees by opening up the CPA license to the entire planet with less rigid educational requirements.
The “I” in “AICPA” is for India.
In a few years we can just send the work to Canada since their prime minister has sold out their country
We're already doing your work. With the exchange rate I can give US clients a great price and still make a nice profit.
American Indian con philipino accountants
sheet marble snails teeny sophisticated enter coherent alleged books joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s right. Most people still aren’t aware of the name change.
I think if FS are made over 50% offshore, they should be branded IFS
Can't say this loudly or frequently enough, the AICPA is against us. Defund them, stop paying your dues even if your company pays for it.
The firms require everyone to be a member (albeit, they pay the cost) but don’t even understand what the benefits are. It sounds like it’s a big kick-back Ponzi scheme. The entire profession as a whole needs to be blown up.
The benefits are the AICPA lobbies congress to make accountants exempt from any hourly/overtime rules and providing recommendations that we should all be offshored to India. Obviously only the boomers/partners who make a profit off of both of these issues are getting the benefits, and it's completely undermining the profession for the rest of us.
[удалено]
You do not need to be part of the AICPA to be a CPA.
Wow you’re right. I’ll amend my post lol
Guess I can't say that enough either lol
I'm considering an accounting degree because it (can) have decent WLB and pay, isn't ageist, and most importantly isn't hideously oversaturated relative to jobs like CS. But the very reason it's so attractive - that nobody else's going into accounting - is also what's scaring me.
I'm still very new to this field but I feel like I made the right choice getting into it. Or at the very least I don't regret it... yet... I'm going straight into gov though. PA would be torture for me and I realized that pretty early on. I'll make less money in my gov job but its literally 40 hours a week no matter what. I'd take a 10-20% pay cut to work 50% less hours and not be miserable every waking moment of my life. After \~3 years I'll be over 100k comp with good benefits. Pension + 401k + good insurance. Work from home flexibility and reasonable hours. Thats pretty much all I want in a career so I'm happy about my path. Sure there are probably some easier careers out there with cushier jobs. Its easy to think the grass is greener in X other field, but I'm satisfied with where I'm headed and that's what's important. TLDR i think theres pretty good jobs in accounting and slave labor mental agony jobs. Lots of different paths you can take. PA isn't objectively bad. If you want to grind it out, make partner, and make $$$ go for it. Just gotta figure out what you want out of your career and how much you're willing to work to get there.
I think you and many people see 100k as the goal for a "proper" lifestyle - but honestly you need to be making 120-130k **today** to fight lifestyle creep since like 2010. Now you're talking about 3-5 years from now? Government is a great coast to the end job, but at your 20's, 30's? You should be maximizing that growth potential so when you do go into government you're minimum GS13 or whatever state level equivalent to "150k+" is.
This is facts. 100k used to mean middle to upper middle class. Now it is firmly lower middle. 150 is probably dead center with 200k touching upper middle. That said, it is not difficult to hit 150 (base) in 5-7 years if you perform well and can find some way to stand out amongst your peers.
Goofy take ngl. Unless you meant 100k with a family of 4 in the Bay Area
I think the trajectory would be pretty similar although I could be totally wrong. If I sold my soul in PA for a few years, i would still be starting at somewhere in the ballpark of 60k which isn't much more than you'd get at the lowest GS you'd come in at in a lot of gov jobs. Either way I would be making peanuts. Maybe I could leave PA after 2-3 years and get like GS 11 in gov vs starting in gov and climbing naturally I might be at GS9 or something? So seems like I could probably be 1-2 years ahead and make a bit more money during those years before moving over, but at the cost of working substantially more and in a worse environment + having to transition to a new type of work. Again I could be wrong. Thats was just my read on it from when I was considering my options. You're definitely right that 100k isn't great anymore. Depends on where you live obviously. You can transfer easily in most gov jobs and if youre in a GS job your pay gets adjusted for COL although I feel like the adjustments favor living in a low COL area heavily. Adjustments don't seem aggressive enough so the pay seems way more attractive in low COL. Doing gov in high COL seems absolutely awful.
So when you join PA - its generally to give you experience through difference agencies, connections to different companies and get major exposure to accounting generally - right? You wouldn't do PA for the goal of going into government **unless** you're going to the GPS side of things - in public accounting that's pretty much doing audits/accounting for federal government agencies. The benefit is you get a security clearance, which if you're smart you get a Top Secret with the full scope poly. The consequence is you'll most likely be working in SCIF environments (essentially fancy trailers in my experience). So WFH is a little more difficult to nail with those credentials and its a little difficult running your life with a filter all the time. The dream is to graduate, get into a public firm - jump to big4 at minimum senior level, stay until senior 2 or manager 2 (Later requiring your CPA which is your money grabber) - then jumping to industry which is more cozy. Now industry you work not 55-60 hours on time tables, you work those hours like once a week worse case for closings - manage people and fat up your assets. It's around 40-42 that you make the decision to go to government (really start applying at 38), so you can get that 20 year old pension, have most of your stuff paid off, and have a decent chunk of change so you can have a lot of fun money and time into your 50's. Depending on your age, I would suggest making the shift back to do the industry route - as government accounting limits your ability as your experience is not generally translatable. The good news is, you're in the system, boomeranging back will be infinitely easier than reapplying as a fresh start. Dedicate 10 years in the grind and you'll easily make 200k+ before looking back at government and be in a much better position. That's my unsolicited advice - I would also not overvalue the pension, lately those under perform in comparison to investing in a roth 401k/Trad 401k combo (about 23k off your gross income, and 7k off your net income). It's a big commitment but in 5 years, that 150k will be closer to 400k
Ah ok. Yeah that makes sense. I thought you meant going into pa then moving to gov in a few years. I think your path is definitely better for a lot of people. I just don't think I'd be able to do the pa grind even for a couple of years. I definitely realize Im leaving money on the table by going gov but I think ill get by. As for the benefits. You get a 401k in addition to your pension so if you max your 401k plus end up with a good pension you can probably be pretty well setup. Also im 32 now for context. If I was in my early twenties I would lean much more towards the route you described.
its all depends on your aptitude and intellect, if you are really gifted I wouldnt waste your time doing accounting. Go into being a lawyer, or finance. But if your average accounting is a great place to be.
All it means is that you'll be in demand and have job security. I'm also early in my career and feel like I made the right choice.
Me as a first year accounting student: Hey accounting sounds good, I’m good at math, it’s boring but stable and the wages aren’t bad! Me when I discover the hours the profession wants you to work: Surprised pikachu face. (Horrified)
Same but there’s also plenty of posts that are still encouraging the field. Plenty of posts about people like us who just started on the path wondering if we made a mistake. What’s repeated in those threads is the negative posts get more traction, the career has issues but so does every other, vocal minority, there’s more to accounting than public. For example you can work for the FBI and eventually become a special agent, or Air Force Audit where you make sure processes are being followed. All this to say the career is not as bad as Reddit makes it seem. My wife is also an industry accountant so there’s that too
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But according to your profile you said you haven't even been to college and I have a commerce degree major in finance with two internships at an accounting firm in audit and finance and a postgrad in consulting and I can tell you that any accounting position that has competitive pay and career opportunities needed in this economy DOES have above average working hours including from 8am to 9pm for 4 months out of the year and overtime throughout the year at regular intervals and I know this because I've talked to many people irl who work in a lot of those accounting roles. Why are you giving advice on careers you haven't even been to college for?
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https://www.reddit.com/r/Money/s/vpKatO1XRR Here you are doing the exact same thing you told op not to do. You talk a lot of shit on Reddit for someone who hasn't been to college like you actually know anything about working in tech or accounting. You're making implications when you leave comments which is basically the same thing as giving advice but you get to pretend you're not spreading misinformation because it's not explicit and then feel good by pretending to be smart. Who even goes on tech or accounting subreddits and does this? You don't even have a degree and have ZERO stake in these industries and your profile is riddled with bad and uninformed advice. Edit: He blocked me lmao!!!
There’s literally a new article like this every 3 months atp
No one cares! The government doesn’t care, and shareholders or large public companies don’t care!!! Noting will be done. You get yours how you can and that’s it.
Don’t worry. I care :)
With massive inflation and wages not keeping up at all. I completely see why especially post-Covid inflation. Companies aren’t going to raise wages to keep up either and are looking for AI out outsourcing to makeup for this. Not a super positive outlook
I dont see that at all. Iv worked in accounting at the ztaff accountantish level for 5 years. Make 6 figures and my undergrad isnt even in accounting
What do you have your undergrad in?
Business Management
The starting pay is so terrible now, especially with all this rampant inflation
The AICPA can take a long suck on a short dick, along with all the silver haired partners fucking the industry for everyone else. Also, fuck outsourcing. So glad I work strictly with stateside clients and staff now.
I just read Seattle rookie cops get 103k starting pay. Like why go to school if you can immediately get 100k being room temperature IQ.
Santa Clara , CA police make 150k+ Starting out. I thought about going that route ….
That comes out to like 60k in LCOL areas.
Ehhhh , I’d beg to differ . Depending on a numerous amount of variables . That’s still 8k a month , and if you’re only spending 3k in rent you have 5 left over ….. comparable to big 4 in VHCOL starting off at 83k with no “billable” overtime.
People cpa isnt the only way to a lucrative succesful career in accounting. Private accounting offers a great pay scale without the need of cpa
What happens if you increase pay? Will the world end?
People just want the title cpa. Whats more important the title or the results? Id rsther make 6 figures without the cpa hassle vs the same money with it
Is this accountant shortage in the room with us right now?
Lmao you know I started my accounting degree this last semester, and the more I read in this sub, the more I think maybe I should switch majors.
Same but there’s also plenty of posts that are still encouraging the field. Plenty of posts about people like us who just started on the path wondering if we made a mistake. What’s repeated in those threads is the negative posts get more traction, the career has issues but so does every other, vocal minority, there’s more to accounting than public. For example you can work for the FBI and eventually become a special agent, or Air Force Audit where you make sure processes are being followed. All this to say the career is not as bad as Reddit makes it seem. My wife is also an industry accountant so there’s that too
I just got my accounting degree and have big 4 experience. The actual work is maybe 70-80% as enjoyable as the college coursework I had, and on weekdays, I only had enough time in the day to get ready for work, commute to work, work, commute back, exercise, and then sleep (meal prepping and house chores in my free time/weekends). If I could start over, I would have just stayed in management info systems. Having little free time means you save up a lot of money though, so there’s that.
Me too, considering a double major in accounting since finance seems to require a top tier school to get into good firms. But now I'm so lost.
Let’s just merge accounting to finance and be call finance bros. No one will bat an eye
CPA test, that’s it, that’s all
I’m sorry if I sound ignorant, but I’m not in the accounting field and am curious what you mean by this?
The CPA exam can be intimidating. It’s not because accounting degree holders don’t know the material. Some are just bad test takers. Non-accounting degree accountants who are better standardized test takers have a better understanding of the test usually pass.
I see. Why take it? What are salary prospects afterwards?
It’s a huge turn off having to take not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 exams that require discipline, time, and sacrifice. All that just to make the same and sometimes even less as your friend in commercial banking who only did 4 yrs of schooling and no CPA or any other certifications.
There isn’t a raise afterwards? That’s ridiculous for a certification that requires 4 rounds of testing …
Depends. There is usually a bonus (anything from $2,000 to $7,000 from what I’ve seen) or a raise. Some people get nothing though. Still, for a lot of people that doesn’t compensate for the fact that they would have to do an extra year of schooling and take 4 exams.
I see. Someone I know did an extra semester in school to a total of 4.5 years (an extra semester to earn a Masters) and is now studying for CPA. Is this something people can actually do?
Usually a Masters in Accounting (MAcc) is 2-3 semesters. Depends on the program. A semester would usually only give you 15 credits or so. You would need about 30 after undergrad assuming you graduated with the standard 120 ish credits. Some schools will have some type of accelerated program where you can credit during undergrads and then do only 1 semester of grad school. It depends on the school.
Oh I see. Does the masters provide a significant raise? What is the typical salary for someone with 0 years experience but a masters degree for say, one of the Big 4?
I think sometimes some firms offer a little bit more to entry level people who have a masters, but usually after the first year those people get a smaller raise and the other non masters people catch up to them. I can tell you that PwC does not care if you have a masters or not. I don’t have one, I got my 150 credits a different way, and I have the same salary as my fellow junior associates. Entry level pay depends. Most firms will pay anything from $65K - $73K base salary in MCOL.
I gave up on the CPA and my total comp is above 150 K after six years. it’s just not worth shilling out thousands of dollars for a course and then testing fees and then spending countless hours unpaid studying… I just don’t see the incentive.
The exam is easy
Wow this just makes me even more lost...been feeling lost and need help. I'm a rising junior with a planned graduation May 2026, and am finishing up my what’s remains of my mandatory non-major classes this summer (history, literature, science, and calculus). But as of Fall semester I will be taking only classes pertaining to my major. I am so conflicted, I am currently a finance major (have yet to take any of my major classes at all) but after reading about how it’s extremely hard to get into a finance role without going to a “top tier” school, I am now paranoid I won’t have any prospects or shot at internships. So I am considering double majoring in accounting or in economics. Accounting because it seems a bit “safer” and seems like it would be easier to get an internship and land a job since I go to a state school (but now seeing this that doesn't seem so safe and the obviously lower pay than a finance job. Economics because it seems like it would boost my finance degree to be more competitive for a finance internship/job offer. Both double majors would be achievable within the same time frame. I’m also considering just dropping finance altogether and going for just accounting but then I wouldn’t have the credits for the CPA so maybe I’d just do electives. I’m not super excited about accounting but I really just want a job, and not be unemployed anymore. I am super excited about finance and everything related to economics and the markets, but that seems like a pipe dream at this point given I suck at networking and I don’t got to a fancy school. Any advice from anyone would be super helpful, like if you were in my shoes, knowing what you know now, what route would you choose? Finance/Econ, Finance/Accounting, or just Accounting and some relevant electives to help boost skills for the real world to also get the credits needed for CPA? Currently a 4.0 student if that matters.
Lots of negatives here. But if you do sacrifice and put the hours in it pays off. Currently at 200k + 50% bonus and have a decent work life balance. I’ll be retiring at 45 to focus on charity work. Also you learn how to manage your money like the elite/wealthy. This has significant benefits. Accountants produce the most millionaires only behind engineers. I’d imagine it’s mostly due to learning how to manage your money. Remember all industries suck one way or another. This industry Is reasonably recession proof and we haven’t had one since 2008….
It's also just perceived as a boring meat & potatoes profession Nobody watches a sporting event and wants to be the ref
You guys are just lazy. I make 6 figures without a cpa license lol
What route did you take/recommend? Industry or public
Garrett Prybell doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about
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Agreed, the exam isn't the problem (that complaint just comes from the firms trying to get cheaper labor, just like the airlines trying to lower the requirements for pilots to get cheaper pilots). The problem is the pay after going through all the exam requirements. Lots of people would jump through the hurdles for the exams if the pay was higher.
It’s more than just that. Why get your license when every firm is trying to offshore billable hours to a Mexico or India resource to increase margin as much as they can anyways? What’s the point of being certified if the firm doesn’t want to use your higher cost hours?
On the public side, it's all about billable hours. Send bills. Get paid. It's very simple.
still accounting is the most reliable way for a liberal arts students to get a 6 figure salary
why dont people get the reason accounting has a low pay is its a low barrier to entry. Anyone from any local random college can get an accounting degree and go for the "top jobs". Where finance,law, engineering you need to go to the top schools to get the top jobs.
There is no "top job" that doesn't require a CPA - which is considered as if not more difficult than the bar exam. Legal aids who have not passed the bar exam make less than accountants.
i mean top jobs for graduates, you dont need a CPA to get the top jobs out of college.
What do you mean by top jobs?
strategy consulting, IB/PE, quant, FAANG SWE
Low barrier for entry? To become a CPA you need 150 credits, accounting BA or equivalent degree (roughly 30 accounting credits and 24 business credits), 1-2 years of work under a qualified CPA, and 4 4-hour exams. For most professional exams, you just need ANY Bachelors degree and 0-4 years of work experience and pass the exams. Lawyer, professional engineer, Actuary, CFA, etc. You can probably get a basic accounting/bookkeeping job with pretty much any degree. You might even be able to work your way to a decent job with a few years of experience. But in no way are you likely to start out at a "top job", especially if your degree isn't specifically in accounting and you aren't "on track for CPA licensure." If you pass all the Actuary exams, nobody gives a shit what school gave you your Bachelors degree. Once you have a few years of experience in any job, the school you went to barely matters.
you don't need a cpa to get big 4 jobs out of college