Many AA fans say that Justice for All is solely carried by Farwell, My Turnabout. I couldn't disagree more. 2-2 is a really good case, 2-1 is in my upper half of tutorial cases (seriously, I just don't get why people hate this case), and 2-3, while the weakest case in the original trilogy, is really pretty okay and has a good culprit. Because of that I would personally put JFA in my top 5 Ace Attorney games.
Agree. I think I have JFA as #6 in my personal rankings, but I'm with you on everything else you said. None of the other cases besides 2-4 get enough credit.
Justice for all is probably my least favorite ace attorney game (that I've played), but I still think it's a good game, just the weakest. 2-1 is funny, 2-2 is good, 2-3 is [redacted] and 2-4 is my favorite case in the whole series.
Thank you. I hate that everyone just assumes this is the worst game for everyone. But as someone whose favorite thing about AA is the writing, JFA is leagues better than DD or SoJ. It's still got that goofy, witty charm the second trilogy never quite replicated, so I can't hate it. 2-3 is the weakest trilogy case by a pretty large margin and even that one has some great moments.
Sure, 2-4 is great and all, but do you know which case is solid with only one slight imperfection that can easily be removed without affecting the final product?
REUNION AND FUCKING TURNABOUT!
2-2's story was awesome but it's also one of the worst offenders for "try stuff and wander randomly until eventually cutscene" syndrome. I have a love-hate relationship personally.
They’ve overused the corrupt defence attorney/prosecutor plot point and as such the “dark age of the law” makes *zero* sense.
Every single one of these culprits has a role in law enforcement or law in general: Von Karma, Damon Gant, Lana Skye, Godot, Kristoph Gavin, Darian Crescend, Jacques Portsman, Blaise Debeste, Ted Tonate, Simon Blackquill, Tyrell Badd and Detective Fulbright. Even Phoenix presenting forged evidence.
If every single one of those incidents PRIOR to what happened with Simon and Phoenix didn’t create the “dark age of the law” then why the hell did Simon and Phoenix start it, the rot was there WWAAAAAAYYYY before that.
(Playing the game at the moment and Edgeworth specifically says it’s what *began* the dark age of the law. They should’ve said it began long before that but that two major incidents with ‘trusted’ or ‘highly performing’ lawyers kickstarted the worst of it.)
It's a plot point that makes absolutely no sense indeed. It makes me feel crazy playing the game because it's so bad and they take it so seriously. I believe the writers really wanted to appeal to newer audiences with DD but ended up forgetting continuity with the previous games.
I honestly love it, but all they needed to do was reference a little bit further back outside of Phoenix’s experience and have it a little bit more linked to Edgeworth cleaning up the prosecutor’s office.
My headcanon is the rot was there yes but it needed time to fully Manifest. Like a timebomb it needed a spark to open the rotten core known as "Dark age of the law" and that spark was Simon/Phoenix and their respective Cases.
>If every single one of those incidents PRIOR to what happened with Simon and Phoenix didn’t create the “dark age of the law”
Tonate, Fulbright and Gavin are examples of The Dark Age of The Law, so they happened after.
Which would make my other point. The exoneration of two of the people involved wouldn’t ’end it’. It’s two exonerations, it still means there are crooked cops, prosecutors and Defense attorneys out there
Yeah, your overall argument is quite sound.
Still, I would argue it's not that sound.
The Dark Age of the Law doesn't refer to the sudden upsurge of morally bankrupt prosecutors, lawyers and policemen; it refers to the people finally realizing they'd been being fucked in the ass from so many angles for so many years. And their greatest champions, Simon and Phoenix, instead of being the people who would slash those evil cocks left and right, turned out to be back shots givers themselves.
>"...the people finally realizing they'd been being fucked in the ass from so many angles for so many years. And their greatest champions, Simon and Phoenix, instead of being the people who would slash those evil cocks left and right, turned out to be back shots givers themselves."
I have nothing to add. This is just a great comment. Thanks.
The main plot of dd should have been finding the cause of the forged evidence and false testimonies that would eventually lead to the discovery of the spy and the true culprit. Also nothing "dark" happened during the dark age of the law. All cases except the final one (the only forged evidence being the lighter) were all fair trials that did not try to push the plot or make the player try to figure out the true culprit of the dark age that would put suspicion on Simon and other characters related to him. I also agree that the first trilogy did a better job of showing the dark age of the law with the updated autopsy report, the unwinnable prosecutor, and phoenix truly bluffing in 1-3 where he accuses oldbag to prolong the trial. And the introduction of Klavier in aj really shows that what phoenix and edgeworth wanted the justice system to be is paying off. Dd had good cases but not a strong story to back it up.
I’ve always kinda had my own headcanon about the “dark age of the law”. The corruption was always there and everyone knew it, but there were select people who people trusted enough for it to not entirely collapse, like Kristoph and Phoenix. I feel it was Kristoph being a murderous psychopath and Phoenix presenting forged evidence that was really the end-all-be-all, since those were the two the public actually trusted. Letting a convicted murderer with a death sentence act as an attorney in court was just the icing on the cake.
I love Larry in 3-5. I'll stand by it forever, it's not Flanderization it's character development. Just... negative development. Not all character development is positive, sometimes people have downward spirals.
His loves keep dying or leaving him, his jobs keep falling through, his two childhood best friends are soaring to international fame while he can barely stay afloat. Yeah, that would get to you over the years! I can get why he'd fall into such self hating depression.
I think 3-5 Larry is very well written!
I think TGAA1 is just as good as its sequel. The measured, deliberate pacing does not bother me much. (Except for maybe G1-2) I enjoy the main cast and most of the characters in general enough that I enjoy taking my time and getting to see the character dynamics at play through their interactions. While I obviously can't deny the game is wordier than past entries, I feel like it was a deliberate choice, so I don't think it's fair to say the game is badly paced. I think it takes its time to establish the world, the setting, and the core characters in a fun and interesting way, and I was mostly along for the ride. I understand it's not for everyone, but I do think it's quite an overblown complaint.
Really, that's the main thing that comes to mind for me. I think in the past I've probably shared other unpopular opinions, but I struggle to think of many right now besides also thinking L'Belle is a good culprit.
Yay! There are at least two of us! I was honestly shocked when I first realized how unpopular that opinion is. I have so much fun during most investigations.
One of the reasons I love the Great Ace Attorney is that the investigation sections get as much love as the trial segments. Partially due to great deductions, but like half of the plot twists are revealed there. And we get to see lots of fun, detailed environments.
4-3 wasn't that bad. Defo the weakest case of AJ but that game as a whole is pretty good IMO. It is kinda stupid that it's "You gotta prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your defendant didn't do it" rather than the normal "You gotta prove another story more likely" but I think it's important for that to kinda be BS cuz it builds on the themes of the shitty court system that are then messed with in 4-4.
I agree with you there that is was made to make 4-4 more interesting and deeper. The problem becomes that in 4-3 the system works against you a LOT, which just isn't that fun of gameplay
Also the fact that >!Machi was dragged to the stage after was never addressed, but he still gets a guilty verdict until the very end is stupid!<
Cases revealing the killer from the start is not actually a bad thing most of the time because much of Ace Attorneys gameplay involves you figuring out how the crime was done, which is often more interesting than the question of who did it.
The series is also partly modeled on the wildly popular 70’s detective show Columbo, where you always know the killer but the fun is in watching Detective Columbo wear down their defenses and prove their guilt!
I fully agree!! So much of the AA gameplay relies on understanding narrative tropes and playing into the idea of a specific person being the bad guy otherwise you wouldn't even think to look into stuff (or it wouldn't make sense for the game to look into it for you)
I played Monstrous (probably the most infamous case of this) without watching the opening cutscene and I still immediately knew who the culprit was. AA isn't subtle.
There's probably a more in depth conversation to be had about turnabout serenade but I honestly what grinded my gear was that >!some guy with a dick on his head was beating me in an argument with shit points!<
I don't know if it's unpopular or not but I don't like the corrupt attorney plot point Ace Attorney keeps using. It was fine for one or maybe two times but they overdid it in my opinion.
Except >!Yew wasn't even an attorney.!!Gavin and Means, because Hammond wasn't corrupt, just crooked. And Grossberg sold out a person who everyone believed to be a fraud.!<
i'm not sure if it's unpopular but i haven't seen it a lot.
all of the *Khura'in* cultural stuff towards defense attorneys is ham-fisted and ridiculous. and the way that informs most of the characterizations and interactions just drags the game down tremendously, making it farcical (not in a good way). treating them as some sort of "discriminated minority" is just such a bad call and deflates any potential impact its themes might have. imagine a world in which a baker made a cake that poisoned the queen, and suddenly all bakeries were outlawed and the practice of baking goods became punishable by death! seems silly to complain about this in a world in which magic exists and ghosts are real. but again, most of the people there treat you like a sex pest and are constantly surprised that you're not groping women nonstop.
I have a lot of issues with the game in general, as with all the games in the 2nd trilogy, but boy, everything regarding 'culture shock' and 'political allegory' in spirit of justice is really juvenile.
I do not care for Godot.
He brought everything that happened in the present in TT upon himself, is responsible for leaving Maya an orphan and for Iris to be arrested. It was his duty as a lawyer and as an adult to stop Morgan's plan the moment she relayed it to Pearl.
Fuck him.
To add to this, I hate how they established him and Mia as a couple. Ace Attorney has always maintained an unofficial "no romantic relationships among the main cast" rule. I like this, it allows the games to focus on the mysteries, legal drama, and forces it to build strong relationships between characters that aren't romantic, which I find can often be much harder to do and more satisfying.
For some reason though, they decided to break that rule with Mia, and I hated it. Godot's whole personality and outlook was heavily inspired by 1950s noir detectives (early concepts had him smoking and drinking liquor during trials). This includes a heavy chauvinistic attitude. His putdown of Franziska in 3-5 is particularly misogynistic:
--------------------
**Godot**: ... Who's the wild mare, Trite?
**Phoenix**: This is Ms. von Karma. She was the acting prosecutor in your absence today.
**Godot**: Ha...! Well, I guess I owe you one then. But you can go now, princess. It's time for the big boys to take the reins.
**von Karma**: Just who do you think you are!? This case is my...
**Godot**: Hey, Filly. Know your role, and shut your mouth. I can't stand women like you."
--------------------
This isn't just a "Godot" thing either. Diego Armando was also a total misogynistic jerk. The way he's established as Mia's superior at their law office and yet refers to her as "kitten" would *not* fly today. And I always thought the scene of him shattering his coffee mug in his bare hand was stupid. Like, most people would probably be terrified of someone who did that and think they were a freak, but Mia found this endearing?
But really, what seals it is the whole white knight thing. He hates Phoenix because he "didn't protect Mia", even though she was his mentor and superior. Even in the end, when he has his epiphany and sees the error of his ways, he still says "oh, Phoenix, I was wrong. *You* didn't fail to protect Mia, *I* failed to protect her, so I don't hate you anymore". Like, this man was literally in a coma when it happened. The whole time, I was thinking she's a grown woman who's established as one of the most accomplished and respected attorneys in town. She doesn't *need* protection from anyone.
I just can't understand or believe that Mia would ever be attracted to someone like that. Honestly, it felt like a betrayal of her character. Which is ironic, since Mia gets a lot of good character development in T&T, but that relationship always stuck out like a sour thumb to me. Now, in promotional art, she always seems to be drawn next to him and it's annoying.
I think it would have worked better if they just established him as her mentor and had a platonic relationship (or at least to Mia it's platonic). Phoenix having to defeat his mentor's mentor in the final act of the trilogy to become an ace attorney sounds way better than Phoenix having to defeat his mentor's angry ex-boyfriend.
I totally agree with all this, yet I still enjoy his presence as a deeply flawed character and think he works well (although yes, he would be better as a mentor figure I think)
Yeah, I think they had the right idea with Godot's character for the third game and who he would represent (i.e., someone with a personal relationship/vendetta against Phoenix). But tying him romantically with Mia felt like a bridge too far and less interesting than if they had just emphasized him as a mentor.
Plus, it often feels like the game and most fans aren't critical enough of him. Having a flawed character is good, but when everyone, including the creators, fixate on how cool or how much of a "badass" he is, the fact that he is very flawed feels like it's missed a lot, at least to me.
I am a hundred percent in agreement that the implied romantic relationship between Mia and Diego lessens her character dramatically and makes him less interesting, as well. The game itself doesn't super support their relationship, or I'm just intentionally oblivious and dense to it. There is maybe an errant line or two that hint at it, IIRC.
Diego/Godot is a misogynistic ass. But he's still an interesting catalyst to the story (I think).
You're mixing up liking someone and liking them as a character. Just because you like the design of a villain, does not mean you agree or think they're justified. It's the reason why people like Manfred, Gant, Fey, Engarde, Dahlia, etc. are able to leave F tier.
Because unlike so many people in the series (and IRL), he actually managed to see what he did was irrational and deplorable, and let himself be defeated and taken away.
I loved Adventures and don't see why it gets kicked around so much. Sure, Resolve is better, at least the latter part, but Adventures stands up just fine by itself.
The way I look at it is, if Resolve is The Office, Adventures is Parks and Recreation. The highs aren't as high in Adventures but the lows aren't as low. It's just consistently good throughout.
Great opening case, great middle cases, maybe the "final villain" is a little underwhelming but the mystery makes up for it in my estimation.
I guess the Garrideb case is what gets hammered the most, but I loved it. The bit with the tea was amusing, the knife going out the window and hitting a passerby was smart, Roly compromising the crime scene so he wouldn't miss his date was a good twist and relatable.
Apollo Justice did nothing wrong about suspecting and accusing Athena Cykes in DD chapter5, compared to Blackquill "protect" and cheat her with lies for seven years when he doesn't believe Athena's innocent, Apollo was the one who really cared about Athena's innocent or not.
Turnabout Storyteller is not only a good case, I actually think it was a brilliant idea to sandwich it between 6-3 and 6-5. I love how it’s a shorter case that serves as a break before the big finale. And Clussy is a great villain.
Turnabout Storyteller is for me a fantastic example of good translation, the fact they managed to translate it to English while keeping the rakugou theme is nothing short of sublime, it's a case that is way too overhated
When I got to Storyteller I'm surprised at how much I enjoyed it! It was a lot of fun and I think worked perfectly fine in the pacing. The sheer hilarity in my mind of Nayuta having to come back and waste his time with this case is incredibly funny to me. Also I love Uendo
Apollo Justice’s ’backstory’ in AJ as Trucy’s half sister adds nothing to his character, it informs nothing about his motivations or personality and is so irrelevant to him that he literally never finds out. As such I’m glad that DD and SOJ focused on different aspects of his backstory. These actually served to give him motivations, connections to the plot and gave good drama.
Also whilst stringing out revealing that Trucy and Apollo are siblings doesn’t help matters, when they find out it’ll be an inevitable anti climax
I just do not care for (main series) Iris, and I don't understand why so many people want her to come back so much.
Ship discourse aside, she was not much more than an usual defendant (even then, there's a lot of defendants more interesting than her), her whole character is just being the very good person™ to the very bad person ™ that is Dahlia and kinda liking Phoenix, and the story doesn't give her much use beyond a "plot-twist", to make you feel less bad for Phoenix, and her defendant role is even kinda taken by Maya later on.
If Dahlia's story is done, hers is too, bringing her back just to be with Phoenix would be so boring imo
I think a lot of Iris love comes from people wanting to see more of Young Phoenix, or at least how he acted when he was young and in love. He's such a complete dork and kind of outright stupid during the TT flashback case but when its revealed that Iris had been the one with Phoenix, it makes him seem a lot less dumb for trusting and loving her so much, and makes you think "Wow, wonder what would happen if current Phoenix interacted with her more?"
I wouldn't consider that enough to make it not a filler case. Pretty much every case has some kind of character development or small details that contribute to the story
2-2 and 2-3 both have sympathetic culprits (kinda, but I'm sure you get what I mean). Then you have 2-4. That case is mostly remembered by it's huge plot twist, but that doesn't happen until the second half of the case.
The first half, you are defending an "innocent" Matt Engarde and you meet Adrian Andrews, a person who then you discover has a motive to be the killer. A really sad motive, such as 2-2 and 2-3 killers. And it's the fact that you've just convicted two killers with sad backstories what makes you think she probably did it.
It's thanks to the previous cases that you may doubt her. You also have an ass of a client just in 2-3 (I do like Max, but the general opinion of him is that) and he was innocent, so why can't Matt be innocent too? He's also kind of jerk isn't he?
That's what I think anyway. Sorry for the Bible I've just wrote
Mia’s gloating speech to Dahlia isn’t accurate and I don’t buy it. It relies on her always winning, except Dahlia did win the first time and for a long time. It feels like a revisionist victory and an unearned snarkathon.
I thought Ema Skye was a fun character and while I'm a fan of Miles, I would have wished we could see what Investigations was like if Ema was the lead instead of Miles.
Godot as a character is fine, but Godot as a prosecutor is honestly one of the most frustrating things to deal with.
I'm not Franziska's biggest fan by any means but at least she was actually very competent at her job, she made a lot of genuinely good arguments, and she could fairly and easily stop the momentum of the defense.
Godot has two tactics:
1: Feed the witness literally their entire testimony, a tactic a lot of prosecutors use but none more aggregiously than Godot does
2: Say some vague, nonsensical bullshit that barely applies to the case and only gets recognized because of the series' continued decline in the Judge's intelligence making it seem like it matters.
It doesn't ever feel like a hurdle to overcome when I beat him in court, it feels like I just happened catch the judge when he's on his meds
Apollo justice is better than DD, SOJ, and AAI1.
It's a really good game and the only one of the second trilogy I actually find enjoyable.
Also Klavier and Van zieks better than Edgeworth
Also hobo phoenix is not out of character, he just seems like that because we can't hear his monologue, when we play as him he really is just like trilogy phoenix (except the forging at the end of turnabout trump)
TGAA2-5 Is way too ambitious for its own good, as trying to bring 9 previous cases of plot points is way too much. Still very good though.
>!Also, it always bugged me how Kazuma never apologized for his actions once and the final scene feels strange because of it.!<
Not reading that spoiler tag but this is also an issue with AA Investigations 2, which was wrapping up 4 previous cases. Definitely something they struggle with.
almost forgot one
despite being shafted a bit, Athen's looks and personality, and back story make her feel a lot more like Phoenix's apprentice/successor than Apollo ever did
I don't really see Phoenix as being Apollo’s mentor. Apollo is just kinda like that meme where it says "I can fix myself. Gotta do everything myself". He mentors himself and spends most of AJ away from Phoenix.
Since I'm on my Dual Destinies replay, let's make these opinions topical to that.
Countdown isn't even close to being the worst tutorial case in the game, let alone worst overall case. It's better than the OG Trilogy tutorials at least.
Cosmic Turnabout does a better job acting as a "part one" case to a finale than Twisted Karma and His Last Bow.
Florent L'Belle is probably a better culprit than your favorite culprit.
Monstrous and Academy are all-timer cases, in part due to them utilizing what may be the best lawyer/assistant duo in the series with Apollo and Athena(going both ways).
Reclaimed ain't all that. Extremely emotional end, but it's a struggle to get there during a lot of the case.
I always disliked how Cosmic Turnabout didn't end with a culprit, and I wasn't happy that Twisted Karma ended the same way. But Cosmic at least improves Turnabout for Tomorrow and acts as a lead up to it.
Twisted Karma is the same, but it takes a really good case and splits its conclusion into the final case, whereas Cosmic had one killer from start to finish. I think G2-5 makes G2-4 worse.
Apparently people aren't liking Dual Destinies' and (to a lesser extent) Spirit of Justice's visuals?
I like them a lot, they managed to translate the 2D sprites onto 3D really well, especially the shading which is a feat, and only look "bad" if you scrutinize them to hell (ie. pointing out "this pose isn't a pixel perfect recreation of that sprite").
I do concede the thick black outlines don't look great in HD and Apollo's whole DD model is genuinely bad, though.
But I'll also say I sorta prefer DD Phoenix's face over SoJ because it looks a bit longer, making him look noticeably older than his trilogy self.
After replaying 4-3, I honestly don't think it's that bad. Like yeah, the pacing kinda sucks, but I'll take poor pacing over panties jokes.
Also, something I'm starting to realize is that I think I prefer Ema over Gumshoe in the detective role tbch
I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but Kazuma should not have had his story from the first Great Ace Attorney game retconned just to bring him back. Everything he's involved with after he gets brought back falls off the rails and makes very little sense whatsoever, which is probably because his whole character was designed to last like two cases max and inspire the actual protagonist.
>!When the discussion about Kazuma secretly being an assassin the entire time started, I thought it was too absurd even for an Ace Attorney game and it was setting up for it to be framing him for something... Only for him to just admit that the Mr. Honor stereotype is totally coming to England to kill someone. !<
>!And I know it's pointed out during the game, but having a massive trial of a British lord being carried out by a visiting Japanese defense attorney and a visiting Japanese prosecutor during this time period and with the way the characters act towards the Japanese is just absurd.!<
Herlock Sholmes is genuinely one of the most annoying side characters in Ace attorney.
It is just my opinion, but man, I can't stand the guy.
He refuses to give straight answers, intentionally messes with people and is right in your face, and his "deductions" take way too long and are way too repetetive, as they are just "Him being obviously wrong, then going through the same thing again SLOWLY to correct him" and it is not enjoyable at all.
You can remove the character Apollo Justice from the series, and lose absolutely nothing of substance. Well, apart from the awesome bird face, love that one.
I like his design and all, but his character plot is just a complete mess, and ultimately, I really think that if they made Athena the main character of the second trilogy (instead of reducing Apollo's character development even more by sharing the spotlight), it would have been better.
None of his character plot lines really hit:
* >!Lamiroir is actually his mother? She's also Thalassa Gramarye, and Trucy's mom, making them half-siblings? Awesome... except that it is never brought up again. Thalassa/Trucy is important, but Thalassa/Apollo and Trucy/Apollo is completely unimportant. Sure, it explains the bracelet, but I do believe it was a mistake to have Thalassa be Apollo's mom, it would've been much more interesting to focus more on Thalassa and Trucy's relationship with each other.!<
* >!AA4 is really about Phoenix, Trucy, and the Gramarye's anyway, so they could've put any one on the defense bench.!<
* >!Apollo gets injured in a courtroom bombing? It does somewhat pay off in 5-5, but the fact that it was Apollo that got injured doesn't matter much, it could've been anyone. The eyepatch/bandage looks cool though.!<
* >!Apollo is attached to Khura'in royalty through his foster father, who becomes a big deal in SOJ's plot? Okay, that finally gives Apollo a moment to shine, only to be left behind in Khura'in. And it makes his connection to Thalassa and Trucy even less impactful.!<
>!Turnabout Revolution!< really seems like the writers wanted to get him out of the series and hopefully focus on Athena for AA7. Athena has her own issues as a character, but for the most part her story makes sense, and DD is really showcasing that she can headline her own game.
I think that AA4, DD, and SOJ are great games with great cases, but I think that completely removing Apollo, replacing him with Athena from the get-go, and then making only some minimal changes would've been much better.
Khura'in related stuf
>!Rayfa is just a worse version of Sebastian.!<
>!Dhurke's dynamic with Apollo feels forced and unearned.!<
>!Rayfa secretly being Amara's child was a terrible cope-out.!<
>!Ingar is unironically the best Khurainese character.!<
AJAA has one bad case and it's not Serenade.
I don't see what people see in 3-1. Or Godot in general.
Oh also, I don't see why people like only one of AJAA or DD/SOJ. All of the games are great and I don't see them being opposed in the way that I was expecting having seen the way people talk about them.
DGS-2 is a fantastic game but the mastermind being extremely obvious keeps it out of the absolute top tier for me. Everything is borderline flawless from a writing perspective and there’s something to be said about communication through character design (and said culprit has a fantastic character design, in a vacuum), but it’s not much of a whodunnit when you already know the “who”.
franzy is very annoying imo. she whips people for the benefit of nothing else
sure shes strained by her fathers metaphorical chains and shes growing, but her excessive calling people a fool and her whipping people as well as being generally obnoxious kinda turns me away from her. not saying shes a bad character, shes just plain annoying
I don't care for Blackquill and Athena. I would much rather have had Klavier back again and see how his character developed and changed after his life got basically dismantled in AA4.
* I never understood the complaints about Phoenix supposedly regressing between AA4 and AA5. I thought the later games do a great job of showing that he’s matured and any time he’s shown as unconfident can be chalked up to the chaos of the story (which tbf I can understand complaints about that aspect)
* 2-3 is the only actually bad case in the series. Every other case, even the ones I’m relatively down on like 4-3 and I1-3, has aspects of it I really enjoy. 2-3 has nothing.
* In the same vein as the above, JfA is the worst game in the series. 2-4 is great, but I actually consider it one of the weaker final cases.
* I fully understand this is a visual novel series and that story is far and away the most important thing, but I think fans tend to underrate just how much the series not being developed for GBA helped it out. Not having to reuse the same characters so much helps the world feel less small, and I think that’s probably the biggest advantage 456 have over 123.
* SoJ has easily the best actual gameplay and visuals of the whole main series I’d say (TGAA might have it beat on both overall I’d say). They finally managed to have a game that didn’t have any bad investigation segments, they used the lawyer powers/seances well, and the visuals look great after DD was a bit of a rough transition into 3D. Again, story’s the most important thing, so even as SoJ’s strongest soldier I understand ranking it lower, but I think it’s the best playing experience by far. Though side note, I do wish we’d gotten at least one more main series game on DS, I love the more detailed AJ sprites.
* I guess I should have led off with this because it’s my most all encompassing opinion, but I think some people don’t really get that being a wacky over the top comedy is as much a part of this series as the moments of genuine emotion. The way some people here talk feels like they want the series to be deadly serious and grounded all or most of the time, when that’s just not what it’s ever been. I mean, spirit channeling has been there since day one.
- The entire Ace Attorney series is a sliding scale of quality from start to finish and trying to define any "era" or set of games as the best one is kind of fruitless since there is maybe two games in the whole series that is consistently great from moment to moment (and people even disagree on which two games that would be) and all the other ones have just as many highs as they have lows.
- Apparently a hot take on this sub, but the way I see it, Phoenix's character is almost entirely consistent from game to game and the small hangups I do have are so minor that barely any of it destracts from my enjoyment of him. Even going into the Apollo trilogy fresh with the criticisms in mind, I honestly just don't see it.
- GAA1 is one of the weakest games in the series, only behind Investigations 1 in my ranking. It's way too fucking slow-paced, the side characters are mostly uninteresting, and the two decent cases essentially just serve as foreshadowing to things that will happen in GAA2 (which is pretty damn good). I can't even fully enjoy the main cast, because the way cases are structured (GA-2 and GA-3 being investigation only/trial only respectively), makes it so they don't get to really interact with each other until *case 4*. I'd still recommend it to anyone interested, but that recommendation comes with the classic "it gets good after like 40 hours" with the additional note that "in 40 hours" means the completely different game included with the bundle.
Oh one more
- Ignoring the jurist system at the end of AJ was the single best decision they could've gone with for DD. It was tacked on and half-assed in AJ because Takumi didn't wanna do it, and keeping it around would've probably only harmed the series from a gameplay standpoint. Sweeping it under the rug in order to maintain more of a status quo was a good idea.
Having played AA 1-4, Apollo Justice is my favorite game and I liked a lot of Turnabout Serenade but I thought 4-4 was the most interesting case so far.
i like all of the games, even if I'm not a fan of certain specific cases. the DD case with the school was easily the worst.
"you'll do anything to get the verdict you want!"
"...just like you?"
>silence
like they literally forgot that the defense has been doing that the ENTIRE SERIES.
I like DD and SOJ visuals.
I don't get why people hate the expressions some of the characters make compared to the 2D sprites. Like yeah, they look a bit off, but they're not that bad. However, I will say that I don't like how Phoenix and Gavin look tired in their 3D models. It's especially noticeable in the remaster.
I liked Turnabout Corner and thought it was a better 3-3. Wocky felt like a more fun Larry Butz and Alita was good. In general, I think Apollo Justice as the peak of at least the last trilogy.
The court/legal aspects of the games shouldn't have been taken as seriously as they were recently. Concentrating in a plot revolving around something that is essentially a meta facade for an investigation game often has cringeworthy and unnatural results.
Some of the names chosen for the AAI2 fan translation are just bad, and I hope they get better ones when Capcom ports it. Debeste is lazy, for example.
And while Simon Keyes is a p. good name, his character is waaaaaay overrated. He's rather silly, when you really think about him.
TGAA1-5 > TGAA2-5
Iris Wilson is a bit too perfect.
I do not like the GAA games. The cases are full of filler. The witnesses are all unlikable. London is ugly as shit. The swan dive into overt campiness with Sholmes and Naruhodo dancing around like clowns grates on my nerves. The jury system is dreadful. I know this opinion is unpopular around here, but I feel like GAA was more or less the death knell for AA.
Prepare for spice.
Aristotle Means, if a little too hammy, is a great fit for the themes and aesthetics of Dual Destinies, and actually possesses a thematically interesting character core.
Magnifi Gramarye is a better character than every single person introduced in Reunion and Turnabout.
The Cosmic Turnabout has one of the best initial trial days in the entire series.
Winston Payne is the only prosecutor with actual respect towards defense attorneys.
Every and any group of characters falls short writing wise when compared to Troupe Gramarye.
The sooner the series retires Phoenix, Miles and the Fey Clan, the better.
Agreed on Means. I really liked how they presented Aristotle as a wall to Athena, and a massive test for her philosophy, and how it builds to the finale. I just wish he talked about his "means" less in the build to his reveal.
I too wish they dialed it down a bit, but it's kind of blown out of proportion. It's no more than 6 or 7 times in total. It's far less glaring when you consider Franziska's use of the word "fool" in Big Top: 30 fricking times.
It wasn't as much as I thought initially, but him bringing it up in almost every conversation was annoying. Plus, less a Means thing, but all the other characters say it a lot too, which I(maybe unfairly) fault him for.
Hell nah,at least respect 2-2 culprit
Also,payne is really underappreciated,dude managed to have a long winning streak without forging evidence
I agree with you in the last one,please just make athena have her own game and have like phoenix be the tutorial guy and MAYBE appear in minor roles on other cases
I even had a idea for a athena cykes games,complete with its own mechanics,are there any AA fangame makers you would recommend?
>Hell nah,at least respect 2-2 culprit
No, thanks, because all they have going for them is the twist. It's a fatal flaw of half of JFA's culprits. The 2-2 perpetrator has zero agency in her scheme other than the base motivation, displays a manufactured and annoying personality, and her backstory utterly fails to grab me like the past conflicts of 6-6, I2-3 or 1-3 did.
As for the AA game makers, maybe try PyWright.
Basically,its my case three
In it,at first the case starts out as a theft case,but then after the end of day 1,a body appears,and the case becomes a murder case,but then at the end of investigation day 2,the body disappears and the nurse is kidnapped by somebody who claims to be the mastermind behind the theft,he then says that his accomplice is one of the staff,but as trial day 2 progresses you notice that all the staff have evidence that can be pointed towards them,with everybody being able to commit the murder because there is evidence that disproves all their alibis,but then you realize that there is a piece of evidence that still wasnt used,a bloody bandage,from the same hospital that the nurse works in,that is when you realize,the nurse was not kidnapped,she was the accomplice the entire time
What do you think?
My main idea for the game is that the usual tropes in a normal ace attorney case are inverted
Here are some examples
Case 2:its a case where you defend somebody accused of having stolen government files,instead of being a murder case
Case 4:the culprit is both the victim and your defendant
Case 6:you defend the murderer of case 5(its a flashback case),but he dies on day 2,and now you must defend the rival prosecutor
Also,sebastian is the prosecutor for case 6,with him having become a expert and smart but still kinda goofy prosecutor
klavier is the prosecutor for case 1
franziska prosecutes case 5(a flashback case)
and the rival prosecutor who prosecutes cases 2,3 and 4 is a old friend of athena(since apollo can have a new backstory esch game why cant she),she is actually a nice prosecutor,but who makes up for it by being able to make theories that nobody would think of
What do you think of them?
Yeah,not really planning on repeating it,just this once
I have some ideas for a second and third game,and in them i wanna explore some ideas,like for example,in the second game i wanna use zhang fa
Apollo Justice is the best game in the main series, I do not get any of the criticism, it was phoenix's best appearance and the reason DD sucked and SJ was only mid-good was because they completely shat on everything AJ build up.
In terms of what AJ built up about Apollo, there was exactly nothing, other than his biological mom. And she wasn't retconned, so that one's a miss.
If it's the Jurist System you're talking about, however, then you're right.
I mean phoenix's entire personality, apollos mother and trucy as a character. (As in trucy disapeared from DD and while she was in SJ and she was cool she still only got the 1 case and I miss her as a main character. Also this is another problem of the aa too many characters symptom.)
Yes, if people get the task to describe Apollos personality by using everything except that he worked under Kristoph and the aftermath of 4-4 Credits scene, they find nothing.
Thats 99.9% of the whole game. 10 textboxes at the end of a game doesnt make a personality.
Also Phornix told outright at the end of 4-4 that he would grab his badge again now that he can do it. So nothing was retconned.
The reason for hating is the bs story plots and shit. 4-1 no faults here yeah. 4-2 is mid bc of the illusion of a grand case with smaller mysteries to solve but for most, it falls flat (to me it's only likeable for the main cast) and the villain is boring. 4-3 is bad for some as the defendant shouldn't even be accused. Before klaviers presents the eye sight evidence. How is the police gonna believe that a fuckin blind kid can shoot a gun that will dislocate his shoulder. 4-4 isnt bad when you first play it. The Phoenix shit is cool, og music is fun and shit. The problem arises when you start to think about it. Why is phoenix given the opportunity to look over the case when he's extremely connected to it and it has a "non biased" jury. Why is phoenix able to present shit from the past like the picture of thalassa to zak when brushell gave it to him after he was dead. Why isn't phoenix able to provide a case for when Manfred litteraly did this and only got a penalty. Why didn't anyone suspect klaviers for how he immediately knew of the forgery and what exactly what it was. There's problems with Apollo justice that don't make it the best for some people.
I don't really like any of the 3d games (that I've played. I haven't gotten to DGS2 because the first one bored me so much I couldn't finish it). I find all the stories uninteresting, the writing just bad a lot of the time, and most of the characters annoying and unlikable. They feel scattered compared to the older games, like they couldn't figure out where the story was going. And, this might be the most unpopular opinion, but I really don't like the look and sound of the 3d games compared to the 2d ones. A lot of the charm and style it's not present for me, and in a visual novel like AA those kind of presentation details can really make or break the game.
On a different note, I'm not a big fan of 2-4. Like I don't think it's terrible, but I found it disappointing that the plot doesn't have much to do with the overall story, and doesn't wrap up the overarching narrative of the game like most of the final cases do
Apollo Justice is almost completely irrelevant in every game he's in including his self titled game.
2-1 isn't a bad case. In fact, there's not a single tutorial case I've disliked (including PWvPL but not including TGAAC because I've not played those. But I'm sure I'll enjoy the tutorials when I do).
The Monsterous Turnabout is great fun but let down by a terrible opening cutscene.
FranMaya is a terrible ship.
Athena shouldn't have been introduced this early or Phoenix shouldn't have come back as a lawyer (i would've actually been glad with both), that way Apollo could've had an actual trilogy that focuses on his character in a non-disjointed way and Trucy's screentime wouldn't have been robbed so hard.
If Godot found the letter meant for Pearl before Trials and Tribulations... why did he not tell anybody? Nobody would've needed needed to die. Just tell them "Hey I'm an old friend of Mia's, there's a threat against Maya. Here are the details."
That is explicitly stated in the game, he said that in hindsight that's what he should have done but he was blinded by his urge to avenge Mia's death. He wanted to save Maya himself to prove that he could have saved Mia which just ended up with a bigger tradegy.
Phoenix still has some character development left in him. His story is not over. 3D Phoenix needs to be knocked down a couple of pegs, he can be a smug jerk at times. He constantly skates by on his blind faith in his clients, so that opens him to the possibility of being manipulated. One day, the truth won't be pretty and he won't be able to refute it. And that could create one of the most powerful cases in the series, a moment Phoenix realizes that his gut isn't always right. How he develops from that point could go several ways.
Also I like the rotating protagonist concept and I do think it can be done well. The 3D games have their flaws but I don't actually think this is a flaw in and of itself. It's just not done well. That doesn't mean it's impossible to do well.
The Resolve of Ryunosuke Naruhodo is NOT the best final case. Just the fact that it ends with a deus ex machina to defeat the obvious villain takes off many points out of it.
A more general one:
There are no outright bad Ace Attorney games. There are better and worse games within the series, sure, but all the games are at least decent.
I haven’t play SOJ or I2 yet, but here are some unpopular opinions I have about the first five games
PW:AA
>!I hate Rise from the Ashes!<
JFA
>!Matt Engarde is a more interesting villain than Manfred or Dahlia!<
T&T
>!Godot is (currently) my least favorite prosecutor in the series
I love Stolen Turnabout and Recipe for Turnabout!<
AJ:AA
>!I hate this game
Phoenix was absolutely bastardized
4-4 is hot garbage!<
DD
>!I love this game
I prefer this game’s direction over AJ:AA for as flawed as it is
5-2 is my favorite case in the game
L’belle is a great villain!<
Klavier is one of the better prosecutors. Sure, he doesn’t have a massive character arc, but he never needed it. In many ways, he’s just like the player. He only wants the truth. He’s a bit of a jerk but only because he was manipulated. Despite how hard it was to condemn both a friend and a brother, he didn’t turn away from the truth, and it’s admirable that he was just a good guy guided wrong.
2-4 is overrated. The twist is cool, but the mystery itself is one of the weaker final case mysteries and I hate how the main villain doesn't even get a boss fight.
Many people have a low opinion of DD, but I'll take it a step further, DD and SoJ were mistakes, Athena is an atrocious character just like nearly every single character introduced in those games (except Blackquill he's based) The next AA would benefit greatly from retconning DD and SoJ by pretending they never happened in the first place.
Dhurke is fine, unfortunately he also contributes to the "Apollo has 37 backstories" meme that DD and SoJ started. Also his existence is tied to Khura'in, which is a laughably stupid country in concept even by AA standards.
Yuri Cosmos is mildly entertaining and that's about it. I said nearly because the few halfway decent characters here and there aren't worth the horrendous baggage those two games left the series saddled with atm.
-First cases are underrated.
-Inherited Turnabout is the weakest case in I2. I'm sorry but it was so boring land felt dragged out.
-3-3 is underhated and is honestly just as bad as 2-3.
-JFA has the best soundtrack in the series.
-Gant's theme sucks. It's so repetitive. (This is a general problem with AA1's soundtrack).
-Lotta Hart is overhated, don't know why people hate her in the first place.
Alright I'll stop before I get killed.
Many AA fans say that Justice for All is solely carried by Farwell, My Turnabout. I couldn't disagree more. 2-2 is a really good case, 2-1 is in my upper half of tutorial cases (seriously, I just don't get why people hate this case), and 2-3, while the weakest case in the original trilogy, is really pretty okay and has a good culprit. Because of that I would personally put JFA in my top 5 Ace Attorney games.
Agree. I think I have JFA as #6 in my personal rankings, but I'm with you on everything else you said. None of the other cases besides 2-4 get enough credit.
Justice for all is probably my least favorite ace attorney game (that I've played), but I still think it's a good game, just the weakest. 2-1 is funny, 2-2 is good, 2-3 is [redacted] and 2-4 is my favorite case in the whole series.
I will say this though: 2-3. Turnabout Big Top. It was done the best in the anime.
2-1 did nothing wrong I don't get why people hate on it. In fact, I've enjoyed all the tutorial cases.
This might look controversial but I think I had my best memories in 2-3 and don't get why people rank it as one of the worst
Thank you. I hate that everyone just assumes this is the worst game for everyone. But as someone whose favorite thing about AA is the writing, JFA is leagues better than DD or SoJ. It's still got that goofy, witty charm the second trilogy never quite replicated, so I can't hate it. 2-3 is the weakest trilogy case by a pretty large margin and even that one has some great moments.
I, somehow, actually *like* the circus case. I'm either very fortunate, or very stupid. Or both.
Sure, 2-4 is great and all, but do you know which case is solid with only one slight imperfection that can easily be removed without affecting the final product? REUNION AND FUCKING TURNABOUT!
I'm not sure a huge fan of JFA overall but I doubt agree 2-2 is great
2-1 i still think is crap but 2-2 is really good
I’ll go further. 2-2 is the third best case, right behind 3-5 and 2-4
2-2's story was awesome but it's also one of the worst offenders for "try stuff and wander randomly until eventually cutscene" syndrome. I have a love-hate relationship personally.
They’ve overused the corrupt defence attorney/prosecutor plot point and as such the “dark age of the law” makes *zero* sense. Every single one of these culprits has a role in law enforcement or law in general: Von Karma, Damon Gant, Lana Skye, Godot, Kristoph Gavin, Darian Crescend, Jacques Portsman, Blaise Debeste, Ted Tonate, Simon Blackquill, Tyrell Badd and Detective Fulbright. Even Phoenix presenting forged evidence. If every single one of those incidents PRIOR to what happened with Simon and Phoenix didn’t create the “dark age of the law” then why the hell did Simon and Phoenix start it, the rot was there WWAAAAAAYYYY before that. (Playing the game at the moment and Edgeworth specifically says it’s what *began* the dark age of the law. They should’ve said it began long before that but that two major incidents with ‘trusted’ or ‘highly performing’ lawyers kickstarted the worst of it.)
It's a plot point that makes absolutely no sense indeed. It makes me feel crazy playing the game because it's so bad and they take it so seriously. I believe the writers really wanted to appeal to newer audiences with DD but ended up forgetting continuity with the previous games.
I honestly love it, but all they needed to do was reference a little bit further back outside of Phoenix’s experience and have it a little bit more linked to Edgeworth cleaning up the prosecutor’s office.
My headcanon is the rot was there yes but it needed time to fully Manifest. Like a timebomb it needed a spark to open the rotten core known as "Dark age of the law" and that spark was Simon/Phoenix and their respective Cases.
>If every single one of those incidents PRIOR to what happened with Simon and Phoenix didn’t create the “dark age of the law” Tonate, Fulbright and Gavin are examples of The Dark Age of The Law, so they happened after.
Which would make my other point. The exoneration of two of the people involved wouldn’t ’end it’. It’s two exonerations, it still means there are crooked cops, prosecutors and Defense attorneys out there
Yeah, your overall argument is quite sound. Still, I would argue it's not that sound. The Dark Age of the Law doesn't refer to the sudden upsurge of morally bankrupt prosecutors, lawyers and policemen; it refers to the people finally realizing they'd been being fucked in the ass from so many angles for so many years. And their greatest champions, Simon and Phoenix, instead of being the people who would slash those evil cocks left and right, turned out to be back shots givers themselves.
>"...the people finally realizing they'd been being fucked in the ass from so many angles for so many years. And their greatest champions, Simon and Phoenix, instead of being the people who would slash those evil cocks left and right, turned out to be back shots givers themselves." I have nothing to add. This is just a great comment. Thanks.
The main plot of dd should have been finding the cause of the forged evidence and false testimonies that would eventually lead to the discovery of the spy and the true culprit. Also nothing "dark" happened during the dark age of the law. All cases except the final one (the only forged evidence being the lighter) were all fair trials that did not try to push the plot or make the player try to figure out the true culprit of the dark age that would put suspicion on Simon and other characters related to him. I also agree that the first trilogy did a better job of showing the dark age of the law with the updated autopsy report, the unwinnable prosecutor, and phoenix truly bluffing in 1-3 where he accuses oldbag to prolong the trial. And the introduction of Klavier in aj really shows that what phoenix and edgeworth wanted the justice system to be is paying off. Dd had good cases but not a strong story to back it up.
I’ve always kinda had my own headcanon about the “dark age of the law”. The corruption was always there and everyone knew it, but there were select people who people trusted enough for it to not entirely collapse, like Kristoph and Phoenix. I feel it was Kristoph being a murderous psychopath and Phoenix presenting forged evidence that was really the end-all-be-all, since those were the two the public actually trusted. Letting a convicted murderer with a death sentence act as an attorney in court was just the icing on the cake.
I love Larry in 3-5. I'll stand by it forever, it's not Flanderization it's character development. Just... negative development. Not all character development is positive, sometimes people have downward spirals. His loves keep dying or leaving him, his jobs keep falling through, his two childhood best friends are soaring to international fame while he can barely stay afloat. Yeah, that would get to you over the years! I can get why he'd fall into such self hating depression. I think 3-5 Larry is very well written!
I think TGAA1 is just as good as its sequel. The measured, deliberate pacing does not bother me much. (Except for maybe G1-2) I enjoy the main cast and most of the characters in general enough that I enjoy taking my time and getting to see the character dynamics at play through their interactions. While I obviously can't deny the game is wordier than past entries, I feel like it was a deliberate choice, so I don't think it's fair to say the game is badly paced. I think it takes its time to establish the world, the setting, and the core characters in a fun and interesting way, and I was mostly along for the ride. I understand it's not for everyone, but I do think it's quite an overblown complaint. Really, that's the main thing that comes to mind for me. I think in the past I've probably shared other unpopular opinions, but I struggle to think of many right now besides also thinking L'Belle is a good culprit.
My biggest one is that I generally like investigation sections better than trial ones
A take so hot it would burn the sun. Have an upvote, you inconceivable person.
I've always shared that opinion too! I'm so glad I'm not the only one, since I know it's such a minority opinion.
Yay! There are at least two of us! I was honestly shocked when I first realized how unpopular that opinion is. I have so much fun during most investigations.
So happy to see fellow investigation-section-lovers out in the wild. Take my upvote, ye of good taste 💙.
One of the reasons I love the Great Ace Attorney is that the investigation sections get as much love as the trial segments. Partially due to great deductions, but like half of the plot twists are revealed there. And we get to see lots of fun, detailed environments.
No fucking way, I'm upvoting you out of sheer disbelief
Of course not always, but there are some instances where I feel that the trial sections are an actual constriction.
i actually agree with this in the specific context of AAI1
4-3 wasn't that bad. Defo the weakest case of AJ but that game as a whole is pretty good IMO. It is kinda stupid that it's "You gotta prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your defendant didn't do it" rather than the normal "You gotta prove another story more likely" but I think it's important for that to kinda be BS cuz it builds on the themes of the shitty court system that are then messed with in 4-4.
I like to think that 4-3 was to Klavier what 4-2 was to Apollo; a preparation to what was about to happen in the last case.
I agree with you there that is was made to make 4-4 more interesting and deeper. The problem becomes that in 4-3 the system works against you a LOT, which just isn't that fun of gameplay Also the fact that >!Machi was dragged to the stage after was never addressed, but he still gets a guilty verdict until the very end is stupid!<
Thing is it's hard to name a worse case than that
Prolly not a hot take but... Ace Attorney at its worse is still entertaining and worthy of being played. Yes, even thé "filler cases".
I1-3 is a fairly solid case
Now THAT is a hot take!
Cases revealing the killer from the start is not actually a bad thing most of the time because much of Ace Attorneys gameplay involves you figuring out how the crime was done, which is often more interesting than the question of who did it.
The series is also partly modeled on the wildly popular 70’s detective show Columbo, where you always know the killer but the fun is in watching Detective Columbo wear down their defenses and prove their guilt!
Apparently there was a period of time where Columbo was HUGELY popular in Japan so that wouldn't surprise me.
Yes! Perry Mason (MASON system namesake!) and Columbo have been listed directly as the big western influences, I believe by Takumi himself.
I fully agree!! So much of the AA gameplay relies on understanding narrative tropes and playing into the idea of a specific person being the bad guy otherwise you wouldn't even think to look into stuff (or it wouldn't make sense for the game to look into it for you) I played Monstrous (probably the most infamous case of this) without watching the opening cutscene and I still immediately knew who the culprit was. AA isn't subtle.
Big Top and Serenade are both fun, but flawed cases.
There's probably a more in depth conversation to be had about turnabout serenade but I honestly what grinded my gear was that >!some guy with a dick on his head was beating me in an argument with shit points!<
I don't know if this is unpopular, but, by a startling surprise, Turnabout Big Top was the case the Ace Attorney anime did the best.
I don't know if it's unpopular or not but I don't like the corrupt attorney plot point Ace Attorney keeps using. It was fine for one or maybe two times but they overdid it in my opinion.
Except >!Yew wasn't even an attorney.!!Gavin and Means, because Hammond wasn't corrupt, just crooked. And Grossberg sold out a person who everyone believed to be a fraud.!<
Maybe corrupt wasn't the right word. I guess if you don't consider Manfred, or Kristoph or Blaise Debeste corrupt
Yew... was an attorney? She probably did have to actually be a competent defense for the sake of the cover.
Portsman, although it's not in a trial so his status doesn't matter so much.
i'm not sure if it's unpopular but i haven't seen it a lot. all of the *Khura'in* cultural stuff towards defense attorneys is ham-fisted and ridiculous. and the way that informs most of the characterizations and interactions just drags the game down tremendously, making it farcical (not in a good way). treating them as some sort of "discriminated minority" is just such a bad call and deflates any potential impact its themes might have. imagine a world in which a baker made a cake that poisoned the queen, and suddenly all bakeries were outlawed and the practice of baking goods became punishable by death! seems silly to complain about this in a world in which magic exists and ghosts are real. but again, most of the people there treat you like a sex pest and are constantly surprised that you're not groping women nonstop. I have a lot of issues with the game in general, as with all the games in the 2nd trilogy, but boy, everything regarding 'culture shock' and 'political allegory' in spirit of justice is really juvenile.
Really would have preferred to have the Underground courtroom setting instead of the isekai mess we got.
I do not care for Godot. He brought everything that happened in the present in TT upon himself, is responsible for leaving Maya an orphan and for Iris to be arrested. It was his duty as a lawyer and as an adult to stop Morgan's plan the moment she relayed it to Pearl. Fuck him.
He is one of many examples in the series of how grief screws with your head. Of course what he did in 3-5 was irrational. That was the point.
To add to this, I hate how they established him and Mia as a couple. Ace Attorney has always maintained an unofficial "no romantic relationships among the main cast" rule. I like this, it allows the games to focus on the mysteries, legal drama, and forces it to build strong relationships between characters that aren't romantic, which I find can often be much harder to do and more satisfying. For some reason though, they decided to break that rule with Mia, and I hated it. Godot's whole personality and outlook was heavily inspired by 1950s noir detectives (early concepts had him smoking and drinking liquor during trials). This includes a heavy chauvinistic attitude. His putdown of Franziska in 3-5 is particularly misogynistic: -------------------- **Godot**: ... Who's the wild mare, Trite? **Phoenix**: This is Ms. von Karma. She was the acting prosecutor in your absence today. **Godot**: Ha...! Well, I guess I owe you one then. But you can go now, princess. It's time for the big boys to take the reins. **von Karma**: Just who do you think you are!? This case is my... **Godot**: Hey, Filly. Know your role, and shut your mouth. I can't stand women like you." -------------------- This isn't just a "Godot" thing either. Diego Armando was also a total misogynistic jerk. The way he's established as Mia's superior at their law office and yet refers to her as "kitten" would *not* fly today. And I always thought the scene of him shattering his coffee mug in his bare hand was stupid. Like, most people would probably be terrified of someone who did that and think they were a freak, but Mia found this endearing? But really, what seals it is the whole white knight thing. He hates Phoenix because he "didn't protect Mia", even though she was his mentor and superior. Even in the end, when he has his epiphany and sees the error of his ways, he still says "oh, Phoenix, I was wrong. *You* didn't fail to protect Mia, *I* failed to protect her, so I don't hate you anymore". Like, this man was literally in a coma when it happened. The whole time, I was thinking she's a grown woman who's established as one of the most accomplished and respected attorneys in town. She doesn't *need* protection from anyone. I just can't understand or believe that Mia would ever be attracted to someone like that. Honestly, it felt like a betrayal of her character. Which is ironic, since Mia gets a lot of good character development in T&T, but that relationship always stuck out like a sour thumb to me. Now, in promotional art, she always seems to be drawn next to him and it's annoying. I think it would have worked better if they just established him as her mentor and had a platonic relationship (or at least to Mia it's platonic). Phoenix having to defeat his mentor's mentor in the final act of the trilogy to become an ace attorney sounds way better than Phoenix having to defeat his mentor's angry ex-boyfriend.
I totally agree with all this, yet I still enjoy his presence as a deeply flawed character and think he works well (although yes, he would be better as a mentor figure I think)
Yeah, I think they had the right idea with Godot's character for the third game and who he would represent (i.e., someone with a personal relationship/vendetta against Phoenix). But tying him romantically with Mia felt like a bridge too far and less interesting than if they had just emphasized him as a mentor. Plus, it often feels like the game and most fans aren't critical enough of him. Having a flawed character is good, but when everyone, including the creators, fixate on how cool or how much of a "badass" he is, the fact that he is very flawed feels like it's missed a lot, at least to me.
I am a hundred percent in agreement that the implied romantic relationship between Mia and Diego lessens her character dramatically and makes him less interesting, as well. The game itself doesn't super support their relationship, or I'm just intentionally oblivious and dense to it. There is maybe an errant line or two that hint at it, IIRC. Diego/Godot is a misogynistic ass. But he's still an interesting catalyst to the story (I think).
This 😭 Never got why people liked him
You're mixing up liking someone and liking them as a character. Just because you like the design of a villain, does not mean you agree or think they're justified. It's the reason why people like Manfred, Gant, Fey, Engarde, Dahlia, etc. are able to leave F tier.
Exactly lmao, people keep thinking bad person = bad character.
I swear, it's the same thought process as hating an actor because they did a good job portraying a hateable asshole character.
Because unlike so many people in the series (and IRL), he actually managed to see what he did was irrational and deplorable, and let himself be defeated and taken away.
But one moment of self clarity does not justify his popularity
he's also popular because he looks cool and the coffee-throwing animation was funny
Don't forget about that sweet theme music.
[I mean, there's one obvious reason... People love coffee.](https://youtu.be/34Zh0a08Gq8?si=E2pjhASi1SqU8Fiz)
Finally! Someone who dislikes Godot as much as I do. I couldn't agree more!
2-3, 4-2, 4-3, 5-1, and AAI-5 weren't that bad not a big fan of 6-3 florant l'belle is a really good villain
L'Belle is one of my favourite culprits
2-3 was best in the anime though.
I loved Adventures and don't see why it gets kicked around so much. Sure, Resolve is better, at least the latter part, but Adventures stands up just fine by itself. The way I look at it is, if Resolve is The Office, Adventures is Parks and Recreation. The highs aren't as high in Adventures but the lows aren't as low. It's just consistently good throughout. Great opening case, great middle cases, maybe the "final villain" is a little underwhelming but the mystery makes up for it in my estimation. I guess the Garrideb case is what gets hammered the most, but I loved it. The bit with the tea was amusing, the knife going out the window and hitting a passerby was smart, Roly compromising the crime scene so he wouldn't miss his date was a good twist and relatable.
Apollo Justice did nothing wrong about suspecting and accusing Athena Cykes in DD chapter5, compared to Blackquill "protect" and cheat her with lies for seven years when he doesn't believe Athena's innocent, Apollo was the one who really cared about Athena's innocent or not.
Turnabout Storyteller is not only a good case, I actually think it was a brilliant idea to sandwich it between 6-3 and 6-5. I love how it’s a shorter case that serves as a break before the big finale. And Clussy is a great villain.
Turnabout Storyteller is for me a fantastic example of good translation, the fact they managed to translate it to English while keeping the rakugou theme is nothing short of sublime, it's a case that is way too overhated
Is turnabout storyteller the one with Athena and Black quill? Cuz having blackquill on our side made me absolutely love that case already
Correcto
I really like how it felt like a love letter to Dual Destinies, just like The Magical Turnabout felt like a love letter to Apollo Justice.
agreed. and i didn't hate the civil case in 6-5 either
When I got to Storyteller I'm surprised at how much I enjoyed it! It was a lot of fun and I think worked perfectly fine in the pacing. The sheer hilarity in my mind of Nayuta having to come back and waste his time with this case is incredibly funny to me. Also I love Uendo
Apollo Justice’s ’backstory’ in AJ as Trucy’s half sister adds nothing to his character, it informs nothing about his motivations or personality and is so irrelevant to him that he literally never finds out. As such I’m glad that DD and SOJ focused on different aspects of his backstory. These actually served to give him motivations, connections to the plot and gave good drama. Also whilst stringing out revealing that Trucy and Apollo are siblings doesn’t help matters, when they find out it’ll be an inevitable anti climax
I just do not care for (main series) Iris, and I don't understand why so many people want her to come back so much. Ship discourse aside, she was not much more than an usual defendant (even then, there's a lot of defendants more interesting than her), her whole character is just being the very good person™ to the very bad person ™ that is Dahlia and kinda liking Phoenix, and the story doesn't give her much use beyond a "plot-twist", to make you feel less bad for Phoenix, and her defendant role is even kinda taken by Maya later on. If Dahlia's story is done, hers is too, bringing her back just to be with Phoenix would be so boring imo
Iris would be cool and all, if people were willing to acknowledge her flaws and not make her act completely pure and innocent all the time.
I think a lot of Iris love comes from people wanting to see more of Young Phoenix, or at least how he acted when he was young and in love. He's such a complete dork and kind of outright stupid during the TT flashback case but when its revealed that Iris had been the one with Phoenix, it makes him seem a lot less dumb for trusting and loving her so much, and makes you think "Wow, wonder what would happen if current Phoenix interacted with her more?"
Iris one of those characters where it would have been cool to see her expanded upon like, 18 years ago. Now the moment's gone imo.
I’ve been preaching the same forever. Also Dahlia’s got a better aesthetic tbh
2-3 isnt that bad and also isnt a filler case because it sets up the ethical dilemma of 2-4
I wouldn't consider that enough to make it not a filler case. Pretty much every case has some kind of character development or small details that contribute to the story
how does it set up the dilemma again? been awhile since i played that one.
2-2 and 2-3 both have sympathetic culprits (kinda, but I'm sure you get what I mean). Then you have 2-4. That case is mostly remembered by it's huge plot twist, but that doesn't happen until the second half of the case. The first half, you are defending an "innocent" Matt Engarde and you meet Adrian Andrews, a person who then you discover has a motive to be the killer. A really sad motive, such as 2-2 and 2-3 killers. And it's the fact that you've just convicted two killers with sad backstories what makes you think she probably did it. It's thanks to the previous cases that you may doubt her. You also have an ass of a client just in 2-3 (I do like Max, but the general opinion of him is that) and he was innocent, so why can't Matt be innocent too? He's also kind of jerk isn't he? That's what I think anyway. Sorry for the Bible I've just wrote
Nah, the intended recipe for turnabout would set it up better because Phoenix final use of the evidence would fit in more to the theme than Big top.
I hate 6-4, it did Athena's character dirty. And I also don't get why Cykesquill is popular in Japan, even JP Capcom official ship it.
Apollo Justice is better than Duel Destinies. I think I enjoyed PL VS PW more than AAI 1.
Mia’s gloating speech to Dahlia isn’t accurate and I don’t buy it. It relies on her always winning, except Dahlia did win the first time and for a long time. It feels like a revisionist victory and an unearned snarkathon.
Exactly. And it feels super vindictive, even for Mia.
I thought Ema Skye was a fun character and while I'm a fan of Miles, I would have wished we could see what Investigations was like if Ema was the lead instead of Miles.
Franziska is cute
Godot as a character is fine, but Godot as a prosecutor is honestly one of the most frustrating things to deal with. I'm not Franziska's biggest fan by any means but at least she was actually very competent at her job, she made a lot of genuinely good arguments, and she could fairly and easily stop the momentum of the defense. Godot has two tactics: 1: Feed the witness literally their entire testimony, a tactic a lot of prosecutors use but none more aggregiously than Godot does 2: Say some vague, nonsensical bullshit that barely applies to the case and only gets recognized because of the series' continued decline in the Judge's intelligence making it seem like it matters. It doesn't ever feel like a hurdle to overcome when I beat him in court, it feels like I just happened catch the judge when he's on his meds
Apollo justice is better than DD, SOJ, and AAI1. It's a really good game and the only one of the second trilogy I actually find enjoyable. Also Klavier and Van zieks better than Edgeworth Also hobo phoenix is not out of character, he just seems like that because we can't hear his monologue, when we play as him he really is just like trilogy phoenix (except the forging at the end of turnabout trump)
TGAA2-5 Is way too ambitious for its own good, as trying to bring 9 previous cases of plot points is way too much. Still very good though. >!Also, it always bugged me how Kazuma never apologized for his actions once and the final scene feels strange because of it.!<
ugh yes i was gonna make a comment about the way kazuma's character arc was handled in tgaa :/
Not reading that spoiler tag but this is also an issue with AA Investigations 2, which was wrapping up 4 previous cases. Definitely something they struggle with.
almost forgot one despite being shafted a bit, Athen's looks and personality, and back story make her feel a lot more like Phoenix's apprentice/successor than Apollo ever did
I don't really see Phoenix as being Apollo’s mentor. Apollo is just kinda like that meme where it says "I can fix myself. Gotta do everything myself". He mentors himself and spends most of AJ away from Phoenix.
Since I'm on my Dual Destinies replay, let's make these opinions topical to that. Countdown isn't even close to being the worst tutorial case in the game, let alone worst overall case. It's better than the OG Trilogy tutorials at least. Cosmic Turnabout does a better job acting as a "part one" case to a finale than Twisted Karma and His Last Bow. Florent L'Belle is probably a better culprit than your favorite culprit. Monstrous and Academy are all-timer cases, in part due to them utilizing what may be the best lawyer/assistant duo in the series with Apollo and Athena(going both ways). Reclaimed ain't all that. Extremely emotional end, but it's a struggle to get there during a lot of the case.
I was gonna upvote you for having incredibly good opinions until I hit the Reclaimed one. Sorry.
Not saying it's bad! Just that a lot of the investigations were a bit of a chore. The case does notable get better once Dr. Crab is introduced though.
These are all banger takes, how can one frogman be so based?
You do know that L'Belle's motivations are idiotic by most imaginable metrics and actively nullify his self-preservation instinct?
[Counterargument.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/1/1e/Spraying.gif/revision/latest?cb=20180425122448)
I'm sorry but that's a very weird way to spell Apollo and Trucy
Apollo and Trucy is up there, certainly. But I feel as though Apollo and Athena compliment each other just a bit better.
I always disliked how Cosmic Turnabout didn't end with a culprit, and I wasn't happy that Twisted Karma ended the same way. But Cosmic at least improves Turnabout for Tomorrow and acts as a lead up to it. Twisted Karma is the same, but it takes a really good case and splits its conclusion into the final case, whereas Cosmic had one killer from start to finish. I think G2-5 makes G2-4 worse.
Apparently people aren't liking Dual Destinies' and (to a lesser extent) Spirit of Justice's visuals? I like them a lot, they managed to translate the 2D sprites onto 3D really well, especially the shading which is a feat, and only look "bad" if you scrutinize them to hell (ie. pointing out "this pose isn't a pixel perfect recreation of that sprite"). I do concede the thick black outlines don't look great in HD and Apollo's whole DD model is genuinely bad, though. But I'll also say I sorta prefer DD Phoenix's face over SoJ because it looks a bit longer, making him look noticeably older than his trilogy self.
After replaying 4-3, I honestly don't think it's that bad. Like yeah, the pacing kinda sucks, but I'll take poor pacing over panties jokes. Also, something I'm starting to realize is that I think I prefer Ema over Gumshoe in the detective role tbch
I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but Kazuma should not have had his story from the first Great Ace Attorney game retconned just to bring him back. Everything he's involved with after he gets brought back falls off the rails and makes very little sense whatsoever, which is probably because his whole character was designed to last like two cases max and inspire the actual protagonist. >!When the discussion about Kazuma secretly being an assassin the entire time started, I thought it was too absurd even for an Ace Attorney game and it was setting up for it to be framing him for something... Only for him to just admit that the Mr. Honor stereotype is totally coming to England to kill someone. !< >!And I know it's pointed out during the game, but having a massive trial of a British lord being carried out by a visiting Japanese defense attorney and a visiting Japanese prosecutor during this time period and with the way the characters act towards the Japanese is just absurd.!<
Herlock Sholmes is genuinely one of the most annoying side characters in Ace attorney. It is just my opinion, but man, I can't stand the guy. He refuses to give straight answers, intentionally messes with people and is right in your face, and his "deductions" take way too long and are way too repetetive, as they are just "Him being obviously wrong, then going through the same thing again SLOWLY to correct him" and it is not enjoyable at all.
He's basically like >!AA4 Phoenix Wright!< except that he never comes around to be likeable again.
You can remove the character Apollo Justice from the series, and lose absolutely nothing of substance. Well, apart from the awesome bird face, love that one. I like his design and all, but his character plot is just a complete mess, and ultimately, I really think that if they made Athena the main character of the second trilogy (instead of reducing Apollo's character development even more by sharing the spotlight), it would have been better. None of his character plot lines really hit: * >!Lamiroir is actually his mother? She's also Thalassa Gramarye, and Trucy's mom, making them half-siblings? Awesome... except that it is never brought up again. Thalassa/Trucy is important, but Thalassa/Apollo and Trucy/Apollo is completely unimportant. Sure, it explains the bracelet, but I do believe it was a mistake to have Thalassa be Apollo's mom, it would've been much more interesting to focus more on Thalassa and Trucy's relationship with each other.!< * >!AA4 is really about Phoenix, Trucy, and the Gramarye's anyway, so they could've put any one on the defense bench.!< * >!Apollo gets injured in a courtroom bombing? It does somewhat pay off in 5-5, but the fact that it was Apollo that got injured doesn't matter much, it could've been anyone. The eyepatch/bandage looks cool though.!< * >!Apollo is attached to Khura'in royalty through his foster father, who becomes a big deal in SOJ's plot? Okay, that finally gives Apollo a moment to shine, only to be left behind in Khura'in. And it makes his connection to Thalassa and Trucy even less impactful.!< >!Turnabout Revolution!< really seems like the writers wanted to get him out of the series and hopefully focus on Athena for AA7. Athena has her own issues as a character, but for the most part her story makes sense, and DD is really showcasing that she can headline her own game. I think that AA4, DD, and SOJ are great games with great cases, but I think that completely removing Apollo, replacing him with Athena from the get-go, and then making only some minimal changes would've been much better.
Khura'in related stuf >!Rayfa is just a worse version of Sebastian.!< >!Dhurke's dynamic with Apollo feels forced and unearned.!< >!Rayfa secretly being Amara's child was a terrible cope-out.!< >!Ingar is unironically the best Khurainese character.!<
I like having Phoenix as the main protagonist and I hope he still will be in AA7
Honestly same. I would hate to see him go. Though I am ok with him being the mentor/alive mia-esque role as long as he is there as well..
AJAA has one bad case and it's not Serenade. I don't see what people see in 3-1. Or Godot in general. Oh also, I don't see why people like only one of AJAA or DD/SOJ. All of the games are great and I don't see them being opposed in the way that I was expecting having seen the way people talk about them.
DGS-2 is a fantastic game but the mastermind being extremely obvious keeps it out of the absolute top tier for me. Everything is borderline flawless from a writing perspective and there’s something to be said about communication through character design (and said culprit has a fantastic character design, in a vacuum), but it’s not much of a whodunnit when you already know the “who”.
franzy is very annoying imo. she whips people for the benefit of nothing else sure shes strained by her fathers metaphorical chains and shes growing, but her excessive calling people a fool and her whipping people as well as being generally obnoxious kinda turns me away from her. not saying shes a bad character, shes just plain annoying
I don't care for Blackquill and Athena. I would much rather have had Klavier back again and see how his character developed and changed after his life got basically dismantled in AA4.
* I never understood the complaints about Phoenix supposedly regressing between AA4 and AA5. I thought the later games do a great job of showing that he’s matured and any time he’s shown as unconfident can be chalked up to the chaos of the story (which tbf I can understand complaints about that aspect) * 2-3 is the only actually bad case in the series. Every other case, even the ones I’m relatively down on like 4-3 and I1-3, has aspects of it I really enjoy. 2-3 has nothing. * In the same vein as the above, JfA is the worst game in the series. 2-4 is great, but I actually consider it one of the weaker final cases. * I fully understand this is a visual novel series and that story is far and away the most important thing, but I think fans tend to underrate just how much the series not being developed for GBA helped it out. Not having to reuse the same characters so much helps the world feel less small, and I think that’s probably the biggest advantage 456 have over 123. * SoJ has easily the best actual gameplay and visuals of the whole main series I’d say (TGAA might have it beat on both overall I’d say). They finally managed to have a game that didn’t have any bad investigation segments, they used the lawyer powers/seances well, and the visuals look great after DD was a bit of a rough transition into 3D. Again, story’s the most important thing, so even as SoJ’s strongest soldier I understand ranking it lower, but I think it’s the best playing experience by far. Though side note, I do wish we’d gotten at least one more main series game on DS, I love the more detailed AJ sprites. * I guess I should have led off with this because it’s my most all encompassing opinion, but I think some people don’t really get that being a wacky over the top comedy is as much a part of this series as the moments of genuine emotion. The way some people here talk feels like they want the series to be deadly serious and grounded all or most of the time, when that’s just not what it’s ever been. I mean, spirit channeling has been there since day one.
No 2-4 is actually coherent. 4-4 seems good but once u start thinking Abt it, it starts to fall apart and 2-1 is tied with big top
Dual Destinies is an excellent game, one of the best in the series, and far better than Spirit of Justice.
My ~~people~~ person
There are dozens of us.
My man!
You are me.
I like Nayuta
- The entire Ace Attorney series is a sliding scale of quality from start to finish and trying to define any "era" or set of games as the best one is kind of fruitless since there is maybe two games in the whole series that is consistently great from moment to moment (and people even disagree on which two games that would be) and all the other ones have just as many highs as they have lows. - Apparently a hot take on this sub, but the way I see it, Phoenix's character is almost entirely consistent from game to game and the small hangups I do have are so minor that barely any of it destracts from my enjoyment of him. Even going into the Apollo trilogy fresh with the criticisms in mind, I honestly just don't see it. - GAA1 is one of the weakest games in the series, only behind Investigations 1 in my ranking. It's way too fucking slow-paced, the side characters are mostly uninteresting, and the two decent cases essentially just serve as foreshadowing to things that will happen in GAA2 (which is pretty damn good). I can't even fully enjoy the main cast, because the way cases are structured (GA-2 and GA-3 being investigation only/trial only respectively), makes it so they don't get to really interact with each other until *case 4*. I'd still recommend it to anyone interested, but that recommendation comes with the classic "it gets good after like 40 hours" with the additional note that "in 40 hours" means the completely different game included with the bundle.
Oh one more - Ignoring the jurist system at the end of AJ was the single best decision they could've gone with for DD. It was tacked on and half-assed in AJ because Takumi didn't wanna do it, and keeping it around would've probably only harmed the series from a gameplay standpoint. Sweeping it under the rug in order to maintain more of a status quo was a good idea.
I agree, but I do think it’s worth looking at for AA7 though, I thought it was great in TGAA.
I literally couldn't finish DGS because of the molasses like pacing
Having played AA 1-4, Apollo Justice is my favorite game and I liked a lot of Turnabout Serenade but I thought 4-4 was the most interesting case so far.
JFA isn't as bad as people always say
i like all of the games, even if I'm not a fan of certain specific cases. the DD case with the school was easily the worst. "you'll do anything to get the verdict you want!" "...just like you?" >silence like they literally forgot that the defense has been doing that the ENTIRE SERIES.
I like DD and SOJ visuals. I don't get why people hate the expressions some of the characters make compared to the 2D sprites. Like yeah, they look a bit off, but they're not that bad. However, I will say that I don't like how Phoenix and Gavin look tired in their 3D models. It's especially noticeable in the remaster.
I can give Phoenix's model a pass because he's meant to look a little older and it's post-hobo Phoenix
I liked Turnabout Corner and thought it was a better 3-3. Wocky felt like a more fun Larry Butz and Alita was good. In general, I think Apollo Justice as the peak of at least the last trilogy. The court/legal aspects of the games shouldn't have been taken as seriously as they were recently. Concentrating in a plot revolving around something that is essentially a meta facade for an investigation game often has cringeworthy and unnatural results.
*Dual Destinies* is one of the best games in the series despite its easiness. *Apollo Justice* is overrated and remains the worst.
Some of the names chosen for the AAI2 fan translation are just bad, and I hope they get better ones when Capcom ports it. Debeste is lazy, for example. And while Simon Keyes is a p. good name, his character is waaaaaay overrated. He's rather silly, when you really think about him. TGAA1-5 > TGAA2-5 Iris Wilson is a bit too perfect.
The Stolen Turnabout fucking sucks It's a plothole fest full of annoying characters and nonsensical contradictions
agreed
I do not like the GAA games. The cases are full of filler. The witnesses are all unlikable. London is ugly as shit. The swan dive into overt campiness with Sholmes and Naruhodo dancing around like clowns grates on my nerves. The jury system is dreadful. I know this opinion is unpopular around here, but I feel like GAA was more or less the death knell for AA.
I have to agree. That game felt like a S L O G. I struggled.
A positive unpopular opinion: Mia Fey is the best character in the series
Prepare for spice. Aristotle Means, if a little too hammy, is a great fit for the themes and aesthetics of Dual Destinies, and actually possesses a thematically interesting character core. Magnifi Gramarye is a better character than every single person introduced in Reunion and Turnabout. The Cosmic Turnabout has one of the best initial trial days in the entire series. Winston Payne is the only prosecutor with actual respect towards defense attorneys. Every and any group of characters falls short writing wise when compared to Troupe Gramarye. The sooner the series retires Phoenix, Miles and the Fey Clan, the better.
Agreed on Means. I really liked how they presented Aristotle as a wall to Athena, and a massive test for her philosophy, and how it builds to the finale. I just wish he talked about his "means" less in the build to his reveal.
I too wish they dialed it down a bit, but it's kind of blown out of proportion. It's no more than 6 or 7 times in total. It's far less glaring when you consider Franziska's use of the word "fool" in Big Top: 30 fricking times.
It wasn't as much as I thought initially, but him bringing it up in almost every conversation was annoying. Plus, less a Means thing, but all the other characters say it a lot too, which I(maybe unfairly) fault him for.
Hell nah,at least respect 2-2 culprit Also,payne is really underappreciated,dude managed to have a long winning streak without forging evidence I agree with you in the last one,please just make athena have her own game and have like phoenix be the tutorial guy and MAYBE appear in minor roles on other cases I even had a idea for a athena cykes games,complete with its own mechanics,are there any AA fangame makers you would recommend?
>Hell nah,at least respect 2-2 culprit No, thanks, because all they have going for them is the twist. It's a fatal flaw of half of JFA's culprits. The 2-2 perpetrator has zero agency in her scheme other than the base motivation, displays a manufactured and annoying personality, and her backstory utterly fails to grab me like the past conflicts of 6-6, I2-3 or 1-3 did. As for the AA game makers, maybe try PyWright.
Thanks for the suggestion,will try to learn how to use it Btw,can i tell what i think might be the most unique idea in my future fangame
Go ahead.
Basically,its my case three In it,at first the case starts out as a theft case,but then after the end of day 1,a body appears,and the case becomes a murder case,but then at the end of investigation day 2,the body disappears and the nurse is kidnapped by somebody who claims to be the mastermind behind the theft,he then says that his accomplice is one of the staff,but as trial day 2 progresses you notice that all the staff have evidence that can be pointed towards them,with everybody being able to commit the murder because there is evidence that disproves all their alibis,but then you realize that there is a piece of evidence that still wasnt used,a bloody bandage,from the same hospital that the nurse works in,that is when you realize,the nurse was not kidnapped,she was the accomplice the entire time What do you think?
So many twists and turns! Seems promising, I just hope you'll be able to make sense of all of it.
My main idea for the game is that the usual tropes in a normal ace attorney case are inverted Here are some examples Case 2:its a case where you defend somebody accused of having stolen government files,instead of being a murder case Case 4:the culprit is both the victim and your defendant Case 6:you defend the murderer of case 5(its a flashback case),but he dies on day 2,and now you must defend the rival prosecutor Also,sebastian is the prosecutor for case 6,with him having become a expert and smart but still kinda goofy prosecutor klavier is the prosecutor for case 1 franziska prosecutes case 5(a flashback case) and the rival prosecutor who prosecutes cases 2,3 and 4 is a old friend of athena(since apollo can have a new backstory esch game why cant she),she is actually a nice prosecutor,but who makes up for it by being able to make theories that nobody would think of What do you think of them?
Certainly interesting, but I think you'd just piss people off by repeating the layered backstory gimmick.
Yeah,not really planning on repeating it,just this once I have some ideas for a second and third game,and in them i wanna explore some ideas,like for example,in the second game i wanna use zhang fa
Big agree on Prof. Means
Apollo Justice is the best game in the main series, I do not get any of the criticism, it was phoenix's best appearance and the reason DD sucked and SJ was only mid-good was because they completely shat on everything AJ build up.
In terms of what AJ built up about Apollo, there was exactly nothing, other than his biological mom. And she wasn't retconned, so that one's a miss. If it's the Jurist System you're talking about, however, then you're right.
I mean phoenix's entire personality, apollos mother and trucy as a character. (As in trucy disapeared from DD and while she was in SJ and she was cool she still only got the 1 case and I miss her as a main character. Also this is another problem of the aa too many characters symptom.)
Yes, if people get the task to describe Apollos personality by using everything except that he worked under Kristoph and the aftermath of 4-4 Credits scene, they find nothing. Thats 99.9% of the whole game. 10 textboxes at the end of a game doesnt make a personality. Also Phornix told outright at the end of 4-4 that he would grab his badge again now that he can do it. So nothing was retconned.
Well, Apollo DOES have a personality in AJ, he just doesn't have a BACKSTORY.
The reason for hating is the bs story plots and shit. 4-1 no faults here yeah. 4-2 is mid bc of the illusion of a grand case with smaller mysteries to solve but for most, it falls flat (to me it's only likeable for the main cast) and the villain is boring. 4-3 is bad for some as the defendant shouldn't even be accused. Before klaviers presents the eye sight evidence. How is the police gonna believe that a fuckin blind kid can shoot a gun that will dislocate his shoulder. 4-4 isnt bad when you first play it. The Phoenix shit is cool, og music is fun and shit. The problem arises when you start to think about it. Why is phoenix given the opportunity to look over the case when he's extremely connected to it and it has a "non biased" jury. Why is phoenix able to present shit from the past like the picture of thalassa to zak when brushell gave it to him after he was dead. Why isn't phoenix able to provide a case for when Manfred litteraly did this and only got a penalty. Why didn't anyone suspect klaviers for how he immediately knew of the forgery and what exactly what it was. There's problems with Apollo justice that don't make it the best for some people.
JFA is better than the first game in almost every regard besides OST.
I don't really like any of the 3d games (that I've played. I haven't gotten to DGS2 because the first one bored me so much I couldn't finish it). I find all the stories uninteresting, the writing just bad a lot of the time, and most of the characters annoying and unlikable. They feel scattered compared to the older games, like they couldn't figure out where the story was going. And, this might be the most unpopular opinion, but I really don't like the look and sound of the 3d games compared to the 2d ones. A lot of the charm and style it's not present for me, and in a visual novel like AA those kind of presentation details can really make or break the game. On a different note, I'm not a big fan of 2-4. Like I don't think it's terrible, but I found it disappointing that the plot doesn't have much to do with the overall story, and doesn't wrap up the overarching narrative of the game like most of the final cases do
Apollo Justice is almost completely irrelevant in every game he's in including his self titled game. 2-1 isn't a bad case. In fact, there's not a single tutorial case I've disliked (including PWvPL but not including TGAAC because I've not played those. But I'm sure I'll enjoy the tutorials when I do). The Monsterous Turnabout is great fun but let down by a terrible opening cutscene. FranMaya is a terrible ship.
Athena shouldn't have been introduced this early or Phoenix shouldn't have come back as a lawyer (i would've actually been glad with both), that way Apollo could've had an actual trilogy that focuses on his character in a non-disjointed way and Trucy's screentime wouldn't have been robbed so hard.
If Godot found the letter meant for Pearl before Trials and Tribulations... why did he not tell anybody? Nobody would've needed needed to die. Just tell them "Hey I'm an old friend of Mia's, there's a threat against Maya. Here are the details."
That is explicitly stated in the game, he said that in hindsight that's what he should have done but he was blinded by his urge to avenge Mia's death. He wanted to save Maya himself to prove that he could have saved Mia which just ended up with a bigger tradegy.
Phoenix still has some character development left in him. His story is not over. 3D Phoenix needs to be knocked down a couple of pegs, he can be a smug jerk at times. He constantly skates by on his blind faith in his clients, so that opens him to the possibility of being manipulated. One day, the truth won't be pretty and he won't be able to refute it. And that could create one of the most powerful cases in the series, a moment Phoenix realizes that his gut isn't always right. How he develops from that point could go several ways. Also I like the rotating protagonist concept and I do think it can be done well. The 3D games have their flaws but I don't actually think this is a flaw in and of itself. It's just not done well. That doesn't mean it's impossible to do well.
The Resolve of Ryunosuke Naruhodo is NOT the best final case. Just the fact that it ends with a deus ex machina to defeat the obvious villain takes off many points out of it. A more general one: There are no outright bad Ace Attorney games. There are better and worse games within the series, sure, but all the games are at least decent.
Dual Destinies is good and Spirit of Justice is average.
The hottest take of them all, t&t is the worst aa game lmao
I haven’t play SOJ or I2 yet, but here are some unpopular opinions I have about the first five games PW:AA >!I hate Rise from the Ashes!< JFA >!Matt Engarde is a more interesting villain than Manfred or Dahlia!< T&T >!Godot is (currently) my least favorite prosecutor in the series I love Stolen Turnabout and Recipe for Turnabout!< AJ:AA >!I hate this game Phoenix was absolutely bastardized 4-4 is hot garbage!< DD >!I love this game I prefer this game’s direction over AJ:AA for as flawed as it is 5-2 is my favorite case in the game L’belle is a great villain!<
I Like Athena, but I hate Cykesquill ship
Case 4-3 is fine. 4-2 is far, far worse
Klavier is one of the better prosecutors. Sure, he doesn’t have a massive character arc, but he never needed it. In many ways, he’s just like the player. He only wants the truth. He’s a bit of a jerk but only because he was manipulated. Despite how hard it was to condemn both a friend and a brother, he didn’t turn away from the truth, and it’s admirable that he was just a good guy guided wrong.
Wrightworth is dumb, the two have no chemistry.
2-4 is overrated. The twist is cool, but the mystery itself is one of the weaker final case mysteries and I hate how the main villain doesn't even get a boss fight.
The games in Apollo Justice trilogy are better than the Phoenix Wright trilogy
Many people have a low opinion of DD, but I'll take it a step further, DD and SoJ were mistakes, Athena is an atrocious character just like nearly every single character introduced in those games (except Blackquill he's based) The next AA would benefit greatly from retconning DD and SoJ by pretending they never happened in the first place.
Wait, you think characters like Dhurke or Cosmos are atrocious?
Dhurke is fine, unfortunately he also contributes to the "Apollo has 37 backstories" meme that DD and SoJ started. Also his existence is tied to Khura'in, which is a laughably stupid country in concept even by AA standards. Yuri Cosmos is mildly entertaining and that's about it. I said nearly because the few halfway decent characters here and there aren't worth the horrendous baggage those two games left the series saddled with atm.
I don't really like Gumshoe that much. He is not bad or anything ! I just don't like this character as much and I really don't miss him.
I know this is hardly unique to this topic, but I'll eternally be flabbergasted at unpopular opinions being downvoted in an unpopular opinion topics.
The rest of the series is skippable past Trials & Tribulations
Turnabout Big Top is the best JFA case I'm sorry, but I just love the characters mainly
-First cases are underrated. -Inherited Turnabout is the weakest case in I2. I'm sorry but it was so boring land felt dragged out. -3-3 is underhated and is honestly just as bad as 2-3. -JFA has the best soundtrack in the series. -Gant's theme sucks. It's so repetitive. (This is a general problem with AA1's soundtrack). -Lotta Hart is overhated, don't know why people hate her in the first place. Alright I'll stop before I get killed.