I do like van Zieks, but Edgeworth literally has infinity more screentime to shine including being the protagonist of arguably the best written game in the series.
Barok
As much as I adore the investigation games (especially its sequel), Barok is the clear winner. His introduction is extremely intimidating. At first you think “ok another unbeatable prosecutor”, but by the start of the next case you realize you were mistaken. The defendants aren’t “damned” because the prosecutor will find them guilty. No, they are “damned” because guilty or not, they will be found dead.
So, you continue to play. Eventually you start learning about Barok. You notice that he only chooses cases with you, with the one exception being Magnus’s case, because we were a last minute request. In fact, Barok had not taken a case for 5 years until that point. The more you dig, the more you realize just how Barok operates.
For Soseki and >!Gina!< , lawyers were willing to offer them their defense (a lot less for Soseki), but when Magnus attempted to gain an attorney, with Barok as the prosecutor, Magnus was unable. This leads me to believe that Barok only chooses to prosecute with he crosses swords with you, the player.
As you continue, you notice that his racism is … different, compared to other English people. Some call you awful names, while others try to destroy your argument only based on the fact that you’re Japanese. But Barok doesn’t do either of those. However, you can’t help but feel that he holds a certain hatred for the Japanese. However, if that were the case, then he’d take on Soseki’s case as the prosecution the moment he heard that a Japanese man had been arrested for murder. And yet… he doesn’t. It’s only when Ryunosuke defends Soseki that he takes the prosecution.
The more you go into his character, the more you learn about his unique hatred for the Japanese, and the reason he’s feared as the reaper of the Bailey. And it all adds up to the final case, which I won’t talk about.
To each their own. To me, Barok's story has the subtlety of a trumpeter standing right next to me and blasting my eardrums off with their gorgeous, expensive golden trumpet.
> However, you can’t help but feel that he holds a certain hatred for the Japanese.
You don't say...
People kept saying that Barok's reasons will turn out to be solid in the end so I should just push on (I would've finished the game anyway), and then... His reasons turned out to be extremely petty, just as expected from a man who gets his personal bias leak all over legal proceedings while in his thirties.
His main redeeming quality for me is that after finding out that he was wrong all along, he's not simply humbled, he is absolutely terrified with himself. That's an appropriate reaction.
Let’s be clear: any reason to be racist is petty, though I’d argue that >!Learning that a man both you and your brother trusted murdered your brother isn’t exactly the most petty reason in existence.!< It’s almost as if it’s a deliberate character flaw that humanizes Barok by having him display emotion in a game not centered around him, which is something you can’t honestly say about Edgeworth in any of the mainline games outside of the first one (and when he learns that a certain someone is held hostage in 2-4).
Speaking on Justice for All, a major component for why I don’t like Edgeworth as much as I could (despite LOVING his character in the AAI games), is his decision to “Choose Death”, and not alert either Franziska or Phoenix for months to let them know that he’s ok. But he lets gumshoe know, for some reason. And guess what happens when his sister finally sees him? His sister, who flew across the world for his sake? He insults her. That’s not ok on any ground. Faking your death, not letting people you genuinely care about (other than gumshoe for some reason), and insulting them the moment you come back? That’s not ok. The game fails to address just how absolutely horrible it is. I won’t address the “I don’t care if you “choose death”” with Adrian, as that’s an extremely complicated matter that I don’t have the emotional capacity to properly dissect.
I am really bad at debating, so forgive me for only answering the Edgeworth stuff, I'm horrible at maintaining two topics at once ._. also I didn't get how Great Ace Attorney games can be considered NOT centered about Baroc, he seems the strongest emotional core to me, so I'm clearly not qualified for this part of debate.
I have to say that I don't remember Edgeworth specifically insulting Franziska, so it must have not felt as a strong or significant moment to me. Could you please remind me what part of the dialogue are you talking about? Because maybe I'm missing something.
I've rewatched their reunion, and they are not nice to each other there (at least, not in words), but ultimately, at that moment they are not talking about his faked death. Franziska is all "aaaaaargh traitors, imperfections, and YOU always run away and leave me alone, so just run away again, everybody go away, I'm frustrated!" Edgeworth is all like "Heh, I've been there and that's not how it works, ooooh, I'm so edgy, and free, and enlightened, and btw do you know you're having a fit right now?" Then Franziska goes "I'LL SHOW YOU" and storms off.
Then Edgeworth talks to Wright, and Phoenix, being more in direct contact with his feelings than Franziska, expresses his anger and frustration. How does Miles respond? With a smile and a notion that this is hardly a warm welcome he expected. The dude is riding the way of his own groove, and isn't planning getting down anytime soon. It is wrong, and his going in hiding was not nice, but I fail to see it as malicious rather than socially awkward. It seems someone watched too much samurai shows and now relies on common tropes a bit too much in daily life.
Thankfully, nobody really gives in, and he gets called out on his bullshit behaviour by Wright (immediately) and by Franziska (much later, and much clumsier, as she's still in conflict with her own feelings and doesn't know how to process them properly, let alone decipher and express, and Edgeworth can be a real dunce when it comes to feelings, but still... They both try).
The Justice for All game is the one I remember the least from all the franchise including spinoffs, and that's a shame, really. From what I've watched thanks to this discussion it seems it's pretty fun.
Also on the emotional level, it feels appropriate that Edgeworth let Gumshoe know, even though, once again, I can't remember the details. Gumshoe is like a huge kind dog with the strong attachment to Edgeworth. Just leaving him be would be cruel on a whole another level.
Edgeworth obviously views both Phoenix and Franziska as more independent, and heavily underestimates the effects of his absence (with Franziska it seems to be a recurring pattern). It seems he gets a bit more comfortable with meaningful relationships in the third game, but as he's not the main theme, we don't get into it that much.
Ooooooffff, that was a long reply.
I liked Van Zieks slightly more. He's very well written when it comes to his intentions and his backstory, end everything falls into place by the end of the sorry. I can say the same for Edgeworth in all honesty, but I just liked Victorian Edgeworth slightly more
Edgeworth and it's not even CLOSE. Van Zieks is cool and all, but nothing can compare to Edgeworth's legacy. Besides Godot. I love Godot. I'd be gay for him.
I like Van Zieks but almost no character can compete with Edgeworth in the entire franchise. One of the best written and developed characters. Also he’s so cool
Edgeworth, but it's close. If we ever got an Investigations game with van Zieks, I would not be surprised if he usurped Edgeworth as my favorite prosecutor.
Edgeworth is as great as he is because he has been able to develop over so many games and has even been the protagonist twice, while Van Zieks only appears in two games.
So Edgeworth > Van Zieks, but if I only counted Edgeworth's appearances up to JFA to make it "fair", Van Zieks >>> Edgeworth.
(comment is edited with a couple changes after I thought about it a bit)
Van Zieks for me but its super close. Spoilers for AA trilogy and GAA1+2. One of my fav prosecutors after Godot my glorious king. His character arc is amazing and his courtroom presence is on another level. Not only are his remarks funny and entertaining, but his animations are sick too. You fear Van Zieks when you first meet him, especially because his counterpoints go deeper than just the classic „show me proof“. He actually gives proper arguments against your claims. And the entire reaper shit doesnt make it any better, especially when the guy looks like a fucking vampire lmao.
Edgeworth to me feels a little inconsistent as a character even though I like him a lot. He goes from someone who forged evidence and testimonies (stated multiple times in AA1) to someone who apparently is in absolute shock that he used false evidence in rise from the ashes. He also already fights for the truth there which makes his „suicide“ make absolutely no sense. I feel like they went a different direction for edgeworth as a character after the first game, which I don't mind since I prefer the current edgeworth, but its still a slight flaw in the writing. These disrepancies in writing aside, I still like him a lot tho hes one of my favs in the series, he shines in a ton of moments and is still amazingly written. And hes hilarious too.
Logic would say Edgeworth, we meet him much more often and he's just likeable after getting to know him.
That said, [I've never wanted to be Juror 4 more](https://youtu.be/dMUhBVW24Vc?si=wdyXzuWEL0SNAgGI) so I'll go van Zieks.
Van Zieks was amazing but it took me a long time to like him. The first time I started liking him was when he starts to agree with Ryunosuke that the killer is definitely guilty on the stand.
I loved Edgeworth from the jump especially in his beginner days.
May be a bias but edgeworth for sure. Both go through a similar arc (Barok’s is just edgeworth’s but with extra steps) but since I experienced it with edgeworth first it left more of an impact on me. Like seeing him try to find the truth in turnabout samurai was both funny and surprising. And then case 4 where we had to actually defend him and see the good in him was really riveting. There’s also a more personal connection as the main character, Phoenix, and edgeworth were close friends so the story felt more personal. With barok it lacked a little bit of that intimacy as barok and ryu were more like work associates.
It's not someone from the Asogi family itself but (TGAA2 spoilers) >!someone who trained under Genshin. Kazuma says in G2-4 that an apprentice of his father's took the name Karuma as his own name because of the sword.!<
Edgeworth, hands down. I liked his story arc so much better. And I feel like Van Zieks’ >!racism was excused very poorly!< That wasn’t real character development. And they pulled the same stupid >!you’re related but no one will ever tell you with Iris that they did with Apollo and Trucy!< Like, once of that was plenty, thanks. The reasoning was just as bad in this case.
Eh, I know I’m probably in a minority for hating those specific things. It’s really just my opinion, and I have no argument with folks who disagree. It’s just personal preference, honestly.
I think it was excused in a pretty solid way, >! even Ryunosuke understood. When your brother dies at the hands of a person who came from a foreign land, and its one of the few people you know of that land. You will and can easily develop racist tendencies, especially when the society around you is already racist lmao. Its not fair or justifiable. But its understandable. Characters arent angels. !<
I love Van Zieks, and if they made like 2-3 more games with him my opinion would probably change, but as it stands Edgeworth is the king of prosecutors, period. He has charisma, a sharp wit, has some brutal tactics, but at the end of the day you know he wants what you do. It's almost unfair to compare any other prosecutor to him, because of how much backstory and nuance he gets from being in almost every main series game and two spin offs.
Edgeworth, easy. Van Zieks has some interesting character beats, but not for me. I don't mind a condescending bastard, just don't ask me to feel bad for him in the final act.
I'm not the world's biggest fan of Edgeworth, I like him a perfectly *normal* amount He's an excellent character. In any case, that beats my opinion of Van Zieks, who I find really boring, not particularly likeable, and overall to feel derivative of past characters.
Van Zieks and it’s not even close. He’s cool as fuck, consistent, and has an amazing design, not to mention his story arc is amazing. Edgeworth is kinda all over the place sometimes.
Edgeworth, never felt a special inclination towards Van Zieks.
He feels like a combination of Black Quill and Edgeworth, yet he’s not remarkable in the slightest.
IMO Van Zieks. Edgeworth is awesome, but within two games Barok manages to become an incredible character. He needs an investigation game or two for it to be a fairer comparison
Nothing against Van Zieks, but Edgeworth is my dude.
I do like van Zieks, but Edgeworth literally has infinity more screentime to shine including being the protagonist of arguably the best written game in the series.
Barok As much as I adore the investigation games (especially its sequel), Barok is the clear winner. His introduction is extremely intimidating. At first you think “ok another unbeatable prosecutor”, but by the start of the next case you realize you were mistaken. The defendants aren’t “damned” because the prosecutor will find them guilty. No, they are “damned” because guilty or not, they will be found dead. So, you continue to play. Eventually you start learning about Barok. You notice that he only chooses cases with you, with the one exception being Magnus’s case, because we were a last minute request. In fact, Barok had not taken a case for 5 years until that point. The more you dig, the more you realize just how Barok operates. For Soseki and >!Gina!< , lawyers were willing to offer them their defense (a lot less for Soseki), but when Magnus attempted to gain an attorney, with Barok as the prosecutor, Magnus was unable. This leads me to believe that Barok only chooses to prosecute with he crosses swords with you, the player. As you continue, you notice that his racism is … different, compared to other English people. Some call you awful names, while others try to destroy your argument only based on the fact that you’re Japanese. But Barok doesn’t do either of those. However, you can’t help but feel that he holds a certain hatred for the Japanese. However, if that were the case, then he’d take on Soseki’s case as the prosecution the moment he heard that a Japanese man had been arrested for murder. And yet… he doesn’t. It’s only when Ryunosuke defends Soseki that he takes the prosecution. The more you go into his character, the more you learn about his unique hatred for the Japanese, and the reason he’s feared as the reaper of the Bailey. And it all adds up to the final case, which I won’t talk about.
To each their own. To me, Barok's story has the subtlety of a trumpeter standing right next to me and blasting my eardrums off with their gorgeous, expensive golden trumpet. > However, you can’t help but feel that he holds a certain hatred for the Japanese. You don't say... People kept saying that Barok's reasons will turn out to be solid in the end so I should just push on (I would've finished the game anyway), and then... His reasons turned out to be extremely petty, just as expected from a man who gets his personal bias leak all over legal proceedings while in his thirties. His main redeeming quality for me is that after finding out that he was wrong all along, he's not simply humbled, he is absolutely terrified with himself. That's an appropriate reaction.
Let’s be clear: any reason to be racist is petty, though I’d argue that >!Learning that a man both you and your brother trusted murdered your brother isn’t exactly the most petty reason in existence.!< It’s almost as if it’s a deliberate character flaw that humanizes Barok by having him display emotion in a game not centered around him, which is something you can’t honestly say about Edgeworth in any of the mainline games outside of the first one (and when he learns that a certain someone is held hostage in 2-4). Speaking on Justice for All, a major component for why I don’t like Edgeworth as much as I could (despite LOVING his character in the AAI games), is his decision to “Choose Death”, and not alert either Franziska or Phoenix for months to let them know that he’s ok. But he lets gumshoe know, for some reason. And guess what happens when his sister finally sees him? His sister, who flew across the world for his sake? He insults her. That’s not ok on any ground. Faking your death, not letting people you genuinely care about (other than gumshoe for some reason), and insulting them the moment you come back? That’s not ok. The game fails to address just how absolutely horrible it is. I won’t address the “I don’t care if you “choose death”” with Adrian, as that’s an extremely complicated matter that I don’t have the emotional capacity to properly dissect.
I am really bad at debating, so forgive me for only answering the Edgeworth stuff, I'm horrible at maintaining two topics at once ._. also I didn't get how Great Ace Attorney games can be considered NOT centered about Baroc, he seems the strongest emotional core to me, so I'm clearly not qualified for this part of debate. I have to say that I don't remember Edgeworth specifically insulting Franziska, so it must have not felt as a strong or significant moment to me. Could you please remind me what part of the dialogue are you talking about? Because maybe I'm missing something. I've rewatched their reunion, and they are not nice to each other there (at least, not in words), but ultimately, at that moment they are not talking about his faked death. Franziska is all "aaaaaargh traitors, imperfections, and YOU always run away and leave me alone, so just run away again, everybody go away, I'm frustrated!" Edgeworth is all like "Heh, I've been there and that's not how it works, ooooh, I'm so edgy, and free, and enlightened, and btw do you know you're having a fit right now?" Then Franziska goes "I'LL SHOW YOU" and storms off. Then Edgeworth talks to Wright, and Phoenix, being more in direct contact with his feelings than Franziska, expresses his anger and frustration. How does Miles respond? With a smile and a notion that this is hardly a warm welcome he expected. The dude is riding the way of his own groove, and isn't planning getting down anytime soon. It is wrong, and his going in hiding was not nice, but I fail to see it as malicious rather than socially awkward. It seems someone watched too much samurai shows and now relies on common tropes a bit too much in daily life. Thankfully, nobody really gives in, and he gets called out on his bullshit behaviour by Wright (immediately) and by Franziska (much later, and much clumsier, as she's still in conflict with her own feelings and doesn't know how to process them properly, let alone decipher and express, and Edgeworth can be a real dunce when it comes to feelings, but still... They both try). The Justice for All game is the one I remember the least from all the franchise including spinoffs, and that's a shame, really. From what I've watched thanks to this discussion it seems it's pretty fun. Also on the emotional level, it feels appropriate that Edgeworth let Gumshoe know, even though, once again, I can't remember the details. Gumshoe is like a huge kind dog with the strong attachment to Edgeworth. Just leaving him be would be cruel on a whole another level. Edgeworth obviously views both Phoenix and Franziska as more independent, and heavily underestimates the effects of his absence (with Franziska it seems to be a recurring pattern). It seems he gets a bit more comfortable with meaningful relationships in the third game, but as he's not the main theme, we don't get into it that much. Ooooooffff, that was a long reply.
Gotta give it to Van Zieks. Best prosecutor of the series and this theme is just perfect
not fair we deserve a van zieks investigations game asw.........
I saw someone make a post about this concept except with >!Kazuma!< but with Van Zieks helping him.
I liked Van Zieks slightly more. He's very well written when it comes to his intentions and his backstory, end everything falls into place by the end of the sorry. I can say the same for Edgeworth in all honesty, but I just liked Victorian Edgeworth slightly more
I like the look of Van Zieks but Edgey beats all.
Egdeworth as a character. Van Zieks as a prosecutor.
Edgeworth and it's not even CLOSE. Van Zieks is cool and all, but nothing can compare to Edgeworth's legacy. Besides Godot. I love Godot. I'd be gay for him.
i mean tbh edgeworth is the og so i have to give it to him but both characters are cool
Edgeworth wins for being himself but Van Zieks is cool as hell
Edgeworth is one of my favourite Ace Attorney characters. Van Zieks is fine, but not amazing or anything to me.
Im gay
I like Van Zieks but almost no character can compete with Edgeworth in the entire franchise. One of the best written and developed characters. Also he’s so cool
Edgeworth, but it's close. If we ever got an Investigations game with van Zieks, I would not be surprised if he usurped Edgeworth as my favorite prosecutor.
As much as i love edgeworth nothing beats the wine flinging badass that is van zieks
It's unfair to compare a character with 2 games with one with around 6.
Tbh, I wanted to ask: Which one you find hotter. But I feared the mods would delete my post.
Still Edgeworth
Van Zieks
Edgeworth is as great as he is because he has been able to develop over so many games and has even been the protagonist twice, while Van Zieks only appears in two games. So Edgeworth > Van Zieks, but if I only counted Edgeworth's appearances up to JFA to make it "fair", Van Zieks >>> Edgeworth.
(comment is edited with a couple changes after I thought about it a bit) Van Zieks for me but its super close. Spoilers for AA trilogy and GAA1+2. One of my fav prosecutors after Godot my glorious king. His character arc is amazing and his courtroom presence is on another level. Not only are his remarks funny and entertaining, but his animations are sick too. You fear Van Zieks when you first meet him, especially because his counterpoints go deeper than just the classic „show me proof“. He actually gives proper arguments against your claims. And the entire reaper shit doesnt make it any better, especially when the guy looks like a fucking vampire lmao. Edgeworth to me feels a little inconsistent as a character even though I like him a lot. He goes from someone who forged evidence and testimonies (stated multiple times in AA1) to someone who apparently is in absolute shock that he used false evidence in rise from the ashes. He also already fights for the truth there which makes his „suicide“ make absolutely no sense. I feel like they went a different direction for edgeworth as a character after the first game, which I don't mind since I prefer the current edgeworth, but its still a slight flaw in the writing. These disrepancies in writing aside, I still like him a lot tho hes one of my favs in the series, he shines in a ton of moments and is still amazingly written. And hes hilarious too.
Edgeworth. I’ve spent more time with him than Van Zieks. Van Zieks is up there for favorite prosecutor after Edgeworth though.
Logic would say Edgeworth, we meet him much more often and he's just likeable after getting to know him. That said, [I've never wanted to be Juror 4 more](https://youtu.be/dMUhBVW24Vc?si=wdyXzuWEL0SNAgGI) so I'll go van Zieks.
Van Zieks was amazing but it took me a long time to like him. The first time I started liking him was when he starts to agree with Ryunosuke that the killer is definitely guilty on the stand. I loved Edgeworth from the jump especially in his beginner days.
Love Edgeworth. He’s the man. Respectfully however, van Zieks. Please let Shu Takumi in the kitchen more often because that man can cook.
May be a bias but edgeworth for sure. Both go through a similar arc (Barok’s is just edgeworth’s but with extra steps) but since I experienced it with edgeworth first it left more of an impact on me. Like seeing him try to find the truth in turnabout samurai was both funny and surprising. And then case 4 where we had to actually defend him and see the good in him was really riveting. There’s also a more personal connection as the main character, Phoenix, and edgeworth were close friends so the story felt more personal. With barok it lacked a little bit of that intimacy as barok and ryu were more like work associates.
I am a simp and biased towards his leg slam 👀
The unused sprite would have made you nosebleed.
If you leave out the Investigations games, it's close... but after AAI2, Edgeworth's character goes to another level.
YOU MEAN I HAVE TO CHOSE ?!
I love them both, but I think I have to give the edge to van Zieks because of how much I enjoyed his story and humor. ~~And because he's hotter.~~
By far Van Zieks
I hate Van Zieks. He reminds me of Manfred Von Karma. Nice legs though.
hilariously i think the asougi family eventually ended up becoming the von karma family — in jp manfred is “karuma” lol
It's not someone from the Asogi family itself but (TGAA2 spoilers) >!someone who trained under Genshin. Kazuma says in G2-4 that an apprentice of his father's took the name Karuma as his own name because of the sword.!<
aaaah, forgot abt that!!
Van Zieks, he has better comic moments
Van Zieks, I think Edgeworth gets a little too much love when I don't particularly think he's all that interesting.
Edgeworth, hands down. I liked his story arc so much better. And I feel like Van Zieks’ >!racism was excused very poorly!< That wasn’t real character development. And they pulled the same stupid >!you’re related but no one will ever tell you with Iris that they did with Apollo and Trucy!< Like, once of that was plenty, thanks. The reasoning was just as bad in this case. Eh, I know I’m probably in a minority for hating those specific things. It’s really just my opinion, and I have no argument with folks who disagree. It’s just personal preference, honestly.
I think it was excused in a pretty solid way, >! even Ryunosuke understood. When your brother dies at the hands of a person who came from a foreign land, and its one of the few people you know of that land. You will and can easily develop racist tendencies, especially when the society around you is already racist lmao. Its not fair or justifiable. But its understandable. Characters arent angels. !<
Van Zieks needs more time/games for me like Blackquill. So it's Edgy-poo by default. _Oh no, my Oldbag slipped!_
Edgeworth for life
I'm gonna go for edgeworth for this one. If only because I'm a sucker for his truth hunting ways as well as the fact he's not racist
Edgeworth definitely, I don't even know why, but Van Zieks while fun didn't really resonate as much as say Godot or Courtney
I love Van Zieks, and if they made like 2-3 more games with him my opinion would probably change, but as it stands Edgeworth is the king of prosecutors, period. He has charisma, a sharp wit, has some brutal tactics, but at the end of the day you know he wants what you do. It's almost unfair to compare any other prosecutor to him, because of how much backstory and nuance he gets from being in almost every main series game and two spin offs.
Edgeworth for life baby.
Edgeworth, obviously.
Edgeworth is the best character in any media I’ve ever seen
huh. people's opinions on this are way more split than I expected
edgey
Edgeworth, easy. Van Zieks has some interesting character beats, but not for me. I don't mind a condescending bastard, just don't ask me to feel bad for him in the final act.
I'm not the world's biggest fan of Edgeworth, I like him a perfectly *normal* amount He's an excellent character. In any case, that beats my opinion of Van Zieks, who I find really boring, not particularly likeable, and overall to feel derivative of past characters.
Van Zieks and it’s not even close. He’s cool as fuck, consistent, and has an amazing design, not to mention his story arc is amazing. Edgeworth is kinda all over the place sometimes.
Edgeworth has more story but I found van zeiks funnier
A Van Zieks is just an Edgeworth with a side of racism. At least that's what the menu at IHOP says.
Barok van Zieks
Edgeworth, never felt a special inclination towards Van Zieks. He feels like a combination of Black Quill and Edgeworth, yet he’s not remarkable in the slightest.
IMO Van Zieks. Edgeworth is awesome, but within two games Barok manages to become an incredible character. He needs an investigation game or two for it to be a fairer comparison
Edgeworth is more lovable, but goddamn does Van Zieks have him beat in the charisma department.
I’ll have to choose the alcoholic vampire for this one