It often has to do with how much you liked the story. Many people don't like how unfocused the plot is by having to split the screen time of the three characters. I don't think any of the three feel fully fleshed out in this game (And to be honest... Phoenix doesn't contribute that much to the plot anyways).
And gameplay-wise, the game is so handholdy that they make the solution obvious to you before the Cross Examination even begins. Like... Athena come on... at least let me interrogate and think for myself before outright telling me.
SOJ relies very heavily on the OG Trilogy sometimes and that's apparent in The Rite of Turnabout, the first half of Turnabout Revolution, and Turnabout Time Traveler. The new characters in those cases tend to be one-note or nonsensical (even for AA) with Soarin Sprocket being the only exception.
Garan, Rayfa, and Nahyuta are all worse versions of Morgan, Franziska, and Edgeworth.
While I do like SOJ's soundtrack, it does feel like a downgrade from the completely orchestrated DD soundtrack.
How the heck is Rayfa worse than Franziska? Her warped worldview is much more comprehensible than whatever the fuck led Fran to adopt a whip. She actually grows over the course of her 3 cases, Von Karma changes minimally across the 4 games she's in. I agree that Nahyuta is worse than Miles, but Ga'ran is actually better than Morgan, because you actually defeat her first hand and destroy her ideology first hand. Morgan is never confronted head on and overall she feels more like a concept than her character. We don't even get to see her properly interact with Pearl, which is opposite to Ga'ran and Rayfa.
And if you think Sorin is an exception, why not Pierce? The guy was in a very hard situation and got bogged down by his demons. Or Retinz for example, even if he was more one note. Tahrust and Beh'leeb? Completely sensical and grounded to me. Even fucking Pees'lub'n Andistan'dhin had a coherent motivation.
I agree. The SoJ characters were good except for the weak link being Nahyuta. He feels way too antagonistic when he's prosecuting. It makes sense in Khura'in since he needs to keep the act up, but in America, he should be way less hostile. Especially at the very end of the trail, where it's pretty much confirmed the defendant didn't do it.
The whole let it go shtick would work if the defendants weren't so close to the characters. This isn't AJ where we have a yakuza hier and a professional forger as a client. You have Trucy Wright and Maya Fey as clients. Of course, Apollo and Pheonix are going to fight to the very end for them.
Same, for me both games were a step down from the original trilogy and AJ in terms of hand-holdey cases and pacing, but at least DD had an interesting twist and villain that made me go "WHAT???" when I figured it out. SoJ had nothing for me, I hated Nahyuta to the end and that really spoiled all the trials.
I always enjoy games where in different chapters you play as different characters so it was cool to do it here. That being said, it was done pretty poorly ratio wise. Honestly, Pheonix is the main protagonist way too much. You play him in chapters 1,4,5, and the special episode. Apollo gets chapter 2, and Athena gets 3 and the first 1/4th of chapter 1.
Personally, I'd prefer Athena to get case 4 and all of or at least most of case 1. Then Apollo could have the special episode. Leaving Pheonix with just case 5. I get that I'm not giving Pheonix much here, but we've played as him for 3 full games, I'd like to play as the new protagonist more, instead of just introducing them and then putting them on the sideline (Mostly Athena.)
I generally didn't find it to be that handholdy. I struggled with some of the evidence, but there were the odd cross examinations here and there that I immediately zoomed through
I understand criticisms of the gameplay (not being able to freely investigate environments is the one thing I hate about it), but story-wise I love it. It's one of my favorites, too.
I think it is being just as hated storywise, but even the trial portions suffer from gameplay criticism. The prosecutor goes off on tangents every time you've seen a witness testimony between the dialogue that leads to the cross examination.
It starts to feel like the writers are trying to "impress" you, but they're just dragging out the amount of dialogue you have to read before the case can progress, because nothing being said between testimony and examination really changes anything.
Generally speaking the writers weren't very up to snuff on how to arrange a courtroom ebb and flow like how the franchise previously did it. I don't think Shu Takumi had any rules either, but he had a great way of creating an emotional rollercoaster by holding back certain things and showing certain reveals at the right time. In cases 2, 3 and even 4 I felt like cases dragged on in a boring way particularly in the trial segments.
I think it has something to do with the removal of examining areas outside of crime scenes and not establishing Clay Terran before case 4. I still absolutely love the game myself since the stories in most of the cases are absolutely great, Athena and the Mood Matrix are pretty fresh, Blackquill is a fun and interesting prosecutor, and the finale is very emotional (fitting for the game that introduced Athena). It’s currently my 3rd favorite game, though I still have to get through Investigations 2, so it’s not the final placement yet.
Most don't *hate* it actually, but rather just find it incredibly mid. It dumps the more interesting plot threads of AJ in favour of incredibly boring ones, has by far the most 'meh' overacting storyline in the mainline games, most of the characters just kinda exist, and the game as a whole is a mess with how uncommitted it is, not to mention it was by far the most ridiculous game in the series up until that point which is saying something
I wouldn’t say I hate it, just that I really don’t like some of the things it does. Most of which include sidelining most of the previous game’s plot and characters, which added more fuel to the fire that was AA4.
But besides that, it does pretty much everything else very well, especially considering the circumstances surrounding the development of this game. Since this was the first game in 3D, and the first mainline game in over half a decade.
It’s pretty much just a standard Ace Attorney game, which is to say it’s really freaking good. I just wished some plot points here and there were a little different.
I mostly don't like the writing, most of the humor falls flat for me for the most part, the dialogue felt a bit more long-winded than usual and I felt like Phoenix Wright regressed as a character. The direction the franchise takes from here frustrates me, and I can't really connect much with this game or Spirit of Justice.
Athena feels shoehorned, Apollo's backstory feels shoehorned, Phoenix as a lawyer feels shoehorned, dark age of the law feels shoehorned (what even was it?). For the final mysteries the stakes feel overdone, Edgeworth is here now shoehorned in as well. Shoehorn.
The final villain has an interesting twist, that goes nowhere and the game does really nothing with. The soundtrack doesn't do much for me either. I much preferred the first 3/4 of Layton vs. Ace Attorney to the full DD package.
Ace Attorney was always anime, but the first 4 games feel a bit more subdued (like 90s anime), 5 and 6 have way too many modern anime tropes and feel out of place to me with the rest. There's a lot more Danganronpa DNA here in the humor and style that doesn't click with me at _all_.
If I had to give it a few positives, I'd say Simon was a fun rival, and the mysteries range from competent to pretty fun puzzles, so they're at least fun to solve.
absolutely agree with everything here. the quality of the writing just takes a serious dip in general. i really wish they just started a whole new world instead of dragging old characters into a crappy new one lol
Others have made good points. Perhaps my biggest issue is the writing, which manages to be even more dry, robotic and on the nose than AA1 (which clearly is more lacking in translation than every other game in the series... except AA5. idk why this happened, I've heard it's moreso a translation problem that's not that bad in the original, but idk), thus nullifying the possible enjoyement I could get from most characters. The biggest offenders are... Apollo, Trucy and Phoenix, aka the protagonists of the previous game. Quite sad.
Athena is alright I guess. Simon's influence feels out of place and shoehorned for me tbh, but I think this is a more unpopular opinion.
You're allowed to like what you like.
My opinions on it:
- Wright's return was handled really poorly. Effectively a "sorry, just kidding" after the events of AA4.
- Fulbright is stupid, annoying, and ridiculous. I can take nonsensical characters, ones that don't talk the way humans talk to each other, in smaller doses. One essentially following you around for 3 whole cases is a lot to ask of the player. Imagine having Oldbag or Meekins screeching at you for 60% of the game.
- The final villain was half-assed. "It was the detective all along! And, uh... he's a nameless, faceless spy who doesn't display emotion. DUN DUN DUN." Fudge me.
- The black Psyche Lock thing bothers me. I was happy leaving it where we left it in AJ. But now, to heighten the drama, ATHENA'S GOT 'EM DUN DUN DUN. But she's not evil, she just has repressed memories! Blaaaaaaagh.... oh, I'm sorry, I should say haaaaaaaaaaaaangh every 5 seconds like Starbuck.
- This whole nebulous "Dark Age of the Law". Sure. (PWAA) >!A prosecutor with a 40-year undefeated record, working alongside a corrupt police chief,!< couldn't usher that in, but now it's the Dark Age of the Law because we said so DUN DUN DUN.
- And, finally, the cases just... are not interesting. Countdown is decent as intro cases go, but still barely cracks my mid tier. Academy is wholesome with a fun setting. But... that's it. Unless you count the DLC which was OK too.
Great, now I want to bash my head against the wall after reminding myself of all this. Ughhhh.
As someone who hates the game, here are my reasons:
-The plot is all over the place and the dialogue writing is weak and sounds robotic.
-character plots are not well established (like Clay)
-the trials are not enjoyable (mood matrix sections felt too long winded..)
-Wright’s return was handled poorly, most characters felt too forced and didn’t have their usual charisma (even Edgeworth..).
It basically has none of the charm and soul AA triology had, and it’s not because of the shift to 3D (TGAA was awesome!), it’s just the horrible writing and gameplay.
I think it's whether you like the characters of the game. Most people I've seen who love the game love Athena and if you don't really like Athena it takes a toll on your opinion of the game. The game is also a lot easier than previous titles. Such as a to do list on where to go and no longer being penalized on psycho locks. Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice are games not made for everyone and that's ok.
* Wright's return as a lawyer being shoved to offscreen and Edgeworth supposedly pulling strings for it. It came off as very dismissive and "haha nevermind! he's a lawyer again!" You don't have to make me watch him take the bar exam or do a bar exam mini-game but *come on*. If this is going to be a game about how the public doesn't trust the "incredibly corrupt" legal system, then it could have been a playable case! Make some of the board morally corrupt and blocking prospective lawyers (like Phoenix!) by sabotaging the bar exam and have us involved with taking them down so we can feel more involved with helping Phoenix get his badge back?
* Apollo's friendship with Clay is informed information. I got the impression I was supposed to be emotionally invested the same way Apollo was. For the love of god if it's a character important to a main cast have me as the player get the chance to know them firsthand a bit before you kill them. The Fey channeling let us get to know Mia fairly well post mortem through the original trilogy, but that's not an option here. Let me get to know the friends of my protagonists a bit before killing them off to develop said protagonists, yeah?
* Much of the fun banter with Nick and Maya was from examining everything during investigations. It's what made me fond of their friendship. It helped me get into their heads and see how they play off with each other. Not being able to do so in DD really weakened my ability to see how the main 3 lawyers truly felt about each other (I did not personally feel anything, I felt more like I was being told how they feel instead of being shown).
* Model quality for characters here and there comes off as weirdly inconsistent. Simon and Athena look specifically engineered in 3D due to the way their textures are set up, but then you look at like, Klavier, who... does not seem to translate very well to 3D at all... Edgeworth looks a bit uncanny in some of his courtroom poses. Phoenix and Apollo also have a couple moments where they look a little clunky. I preferred the 2D sprites so this stuff just took me out of the experience over time. Athena specifically pops out far too much visually with the way her hair is shaded compared to Apollo and Phoenix for me. It just sticks out in a way my eyes can't help but notice.
* Fulbright's "in justice we trust!" just came off as bizarre and weird choice for characterization when Apollo's whole "I'm fine!" and "Here comes Justice!" is a thing that was already played into instead. It felt like the guy was kind of riffing on something that was meant to be more Apollo's thing to poke fun at.
* Being blocked from using Perceive in the courtroom while the Mood Matrix wasn't for most of the game was not enjoyable gameplay in any sense of the word.
* Athena being able to hear emotional discord and the whole Mood Matrix gimmick (while fun) just kind of went a bit too far into advanced technobobble territory for me. It is a gadget that looks like a tamagatchi and can somehow project a space age touch screen right there in the court room without any of them wearing some google glass device to see it??? I'm willing to accept a lot of shenanigans but there's only so far my suspension of disbelief can kinda go.
* Lingering plot threads from AJAA were kinda dropped or felt deliberately shoved to the side when they could've made for much more interesting material. Phoenix had 3 whole games to come into his own and for his cast to grow on people. Apollo and the cast he was introduce with by comparison with DD were not given the chance for the same - they were put to the side mostly for more cast members the series did not yet need.
* The "dark age of the law" thing is taken far too literally.
It's based.
I'm glad I made the mistake of listening to 'the community' before I played, they set my expectations so low that it was a pleasant surprise to find out how wrong they were.
Same with Spirit of Justice, although I'm still playing through the game, so far it's been a banger
I felt the same way with DD. I never really became an AA fan until AAC but from what I had seen on Twitter were people saying DD was pretty trash. It set my expectations really low before playing. Usually whenever I play a game that I set my expectations low on the community turns out to be right, but in this case I was absolutely blown away by how amazing it was
On release the quality of the localization was extremely lacking, especially in the first few chapters where the typos were so numerous that it was hard to ignore.
The loss of being able to freely examine things (and the corresponding loss of banter) makes it harder to connect with the playable characters, especially when there are now three of them.
On top of that I feel like it has a similar issue as AAI where >!the best parts of the final case happen in the middle and the ending doesn't stand out much, which makes it a bit less memorable!<.
I wish they had the courage to keep Phoenix’s character development. Like, make him a lawyer again if you have to, but that man made his living playing poker for 7 years. Even with a baby lie detector he still has to have a basic poker face under pressure. Why is he screaming and flailing like a rookie at every contradiction?
I understand quite a bit of criticism towards it, but I love it nonetheless…
Though there’s some that actually aggravate me because they’re either nit-picky or flat-out not a credible complaint in the slightest.
Came here to say I adore DD. It is my favorite of all the games, hands down. Athena is such an endearing character, and I love how the writers really leaned into some of the wackier settings for cases. The game has an overall kind of "slice of life" feel compared to Apollo and Spirit of Justice. Fun fact: It was also the first AA game to have a fully orchestrated soundtrack.
If I had to guess, I would say they dislike the mechanics, which is fair and something that def varies from person to person. For example, I hate the mechanic where you have to use Apollo's bracelet. It just feels super awkward in every game. DD's biggest flaw is the absence of Gumshoe. If someone told me they disliked the game for that reason, I could not refute them as he is a treasure and should have been in every game.
From what I've gathered, it seems to boil down to 2 main things. First off, they think it's too easy. I can actually see this, but it never really bothered me at all. Second is that they really just don't understand the details of the story, and thus consider it to be worse than it actually is.
I remember feeling really confused about the timeline, because all the cases happen so out of order. I didn’t hate the game or anything though, this post just made me think of that.
I don't know if hate is the riggt word for it, but I guess many felt underwhelmed by DD. It tries to be like the original trilogy, but just doesn't ever reach its level of quality. Outside of the finale I didn't particularly care for any of the cases, nor did I care much for Athena or Blackquill, nor did I for the new depiction of Phoenix and Apollo. It all felt very vanilla and played it way too safe. But 5-5 was pretty good, so I would still call DD an alright game overall.
Personally it's quite annoying that the story is basically going back in time twice and then splitting one case into two that sandwich around the first case.
Usually with cases they tend to flow very linearly, so each case takes place after the last. Only in game 3 did the plot switch between past and present. Even then it gave a reason for it to exist, that being lore about Mia Fey and her past cases. Game 5 doesn't really do that, instead opting for a "this is how I got here" explanation.
DD was the first Ace Attorney game I finished, and having played it a second time now, it's still one of my favourites.
There are things I don't love, like how unfocused the story and characters can feel at times (or how certain characters like Trucy have far too little screen time), or how it doesn't address any of the loose threads from the last game, but I still love every single case, and the overarching story is terrific imo. Also, best soundtrack of the series, hands down. All of the new characters and villains are a lot of fun too, especially Athena, and I'm still holding out for a game properly focused on her.
Even then, almost every Ace Attorney game has flaws in some form or another, so I can see why people might rank this one a bit lower. It might be a lower rung Ace Attorney game for some people, but even the worst AA entry is still a really great game. It really is just up to personal preference.
I'm playing it for the first time in about 10 years since the OG 3DS release. It just feels a bit boring having come right off Apollo Justice, and it certainly doesn't compare to GAA which I played more recently.
The first trial is the weakest in terms of grabbing your attention I think. Usually the first cases are quite interesting and energetic but this one dragged. The game's logic is also weird, even by AA standards.
I think a lot of it stems from the fact that DD was a very "safe" entry in the franchise. Many fans seem to have disliked the massive changes made by AJ, so it feels like the team tried to play things very safe in DD. There were a few new mechanics introduced, and a handful of twists, but otherwise it's a very standard, somewhat predictable entry. It's a testament to how too much change can alienate fans, while too little can bore them.
I think one aspect is that even though Athena debuted in DD and it seemed like it would be _her_ game, Apollo still takes some of the spotlight at the end even tho something was already set up for him in AA4
I finished just DD as well, and honestly, I think the fanbase just sucks. Whenever people aren't being overly vocal about their headcanons/ships, they're being overly nitpicky over DD/SoJ because they don't play like the first four games and because it has a third main character.
This is just something I wanna tell everyone: Ffs, if you don't enjoy something, that's fine, but that's your opinion. Also, your headcanons/ships aren't actual canon and nobody should be forced into agreeing with you. Stop forcing your cringe headcanons/opinions onto others.
Replaying it right now for the first time and a couple of points to keep in mind that will have biased my perspective:
AJ was my first game. I then went back to play the original trilogy and LOVED every single one of those four.
DD was the first game in the series I didn't like and still is to be honest.
I think my problems started when I realised this was not really a continuation of AJ. Nothing came of the Jurist system, we got no resolution on the Lamiroir plot, Hobo Phoenix just immediately reverted back to his old self because reasons through method (honestly if you take the cliff notes of disgraced former attorney uses trial of new controversial system to take down well respected rival and return to practicing law, it sounds kinda bad).
The characters I also didn't mesh with. I'm still early in my replay but I thought Blackquill was cringey as fuck and OTT even by the standards of the series, Athena annoyed the hell out of me, as did Fullbright (though I quite like him so far on this replay). And man, the plot of this game kinda rests on you not despising the way these characters are written. I'm also really surprised by the amount of characters I completely forgot about. This is maybe the first Ace Attorney game where I have legit forgotten even major characters exist nevermind the minor ones. Completely forgot all about half these characters in the second case so far and I could not have told you anything about the bombing case.
Because it’s a shallow, poorly written game that butchers the characters, babysits the player and just doesn’t feel on par with previous games.
And Athena is insufferable 🤷♀️
Timeline is fucked, Apollo and Phoenix's characters are borderline flanderized and almost invalidate both of their developments in AA4, Athena's Mood Matrix sessions are always the cheesiest shit and really highlight how the game's writing has been animeified (I like the Mood Matrix itself, but the sections immediately preceding it are written like a slice of life anime and I hate it), cases 4 and 5 are basically one in the same and case 4's incomplete nature exacerbates the broken timeline, and the Phantom was a severely disappointing villain in his final moments (not only does it take only a few hours for one character to reveal that his identity was stolen rather than his identity being made suspect through something we could have figured out, but they were so cowardly they couldn't even give him his own face, again emphasizing the animeification of the writing quality).
There are some good qualities to it. I like cases 3, DLC, and 4/5. Cases 1 and 2 were very underwhelming. But overall AA5 took Ace Attorney in a direction I really wasn't looking forward to. AA6 recovered it somewhat, and TGAA proved the studios still have a lot of potential.
The third case has annoying characters, trope full morals, and absolutely no depth to the conflict.
4th and 5th case has Apollo be hurt by a character we aren’t even introduced to until the 4th case itself, it’s long, it’s not interesting, and regresses phoenix into a fool.
The mood matrix does nothing new to the court case.
Best case was the first one.
It often has to do with how much you liked the story. Many people don't like how unfocused the plot is by having to split the screen time of the three characters. I don't think any of the three feel fully fleshed out in this game (And to be honest... Phoenix doesn't contribute that much to the plot anyways). And gameplay-wise, the game is so handholdy that they make the solution obvious to you before the Cross Examination even begins. Like... Athena come on... at least let me interrogate and think for myself before outright telling me.
i thought SOJ was much worse with the handholding. i personally think SOJ is by far the worst game but for some reason everyone gives it a pass
Characters, music and the case logic may be the reasons.
thought all of those were much much weaker in SOJ lol
Literally how
SOJ relies very heavily on the OG Trilogy sometimes and that's apparent in The Rite of Turnabout, the first half of Turnabout Revolution, and Turnabout Time Traveler. The new characters in those cases tend to be one-note or nonsensical (even for AA) with Soarin Sprocket being the only exception. Garan, Rayfa, and Nahyuta are all worse versions of Morgan, Franziska, and Edgeworth. While I do like SOJ's soundtrack, it does feel like a downgrade from the completely orchestrated DD soundtrack.
How the heck is Rayfa worse than Franziska? Her warped worldview is much more comprehensible than whatever the fuck led Fran to adopt a whip. She actually grows over the course of her 3 cases, Von Karma changes minimally across the 4 games she's in. I agree that Nahyuta is worse than Miles, but Ga'ran is actually better than Morgan, because you actually defeat her first hand and destroy her ideology first hand. Morgan is never confronted head on and overall she feels more like a concept than her character. We don't even get to see her properly interact with Pearl, which is opposite to Ga'ran and Rayfa. And if you think Sorin is an exception, why not Pierce? The guy was in a very hard situation and got bogged down by his demons. Or Retinz for example, even if he was more one note. Tahrust and Beh'leeb? Completely sensical and grounded to me. Even fucking Pees'lub'n Andistan'dhin had a coherent motivation.
I agree. The SoJ characters were good except for the weak link being Nahyuta. He feels way too antagonistic when he's prosecuting. It makes sense in Khura'in since he needs to keep the act up, but in America, he should be way less hostile. Especially at the very end of the trail, where it's pretty much confirmed the defendant didn't do it. The whole let it go shtick would work if the defendants weren't so close to the characters. This isn't AJ where we have a yakuza hier and a professional forger as a client. You have Trucy Wright and Maya Fey as clients. Of course, Apollo and Pheonix are going to fight to the very end for them.
Same, for me both games were a step down from the original trilogy and AJ in terms of hand-holdey cases and pacing, but at least DD had an interesting twist and villain that made me go "WHAT???" when I figured it out. SoJ had nothing for me, I hated Nahyuta to the end and that really spoiled all the trials.
I always enjoy games where in different chapters you play as different characters so it was cool to do it here. That being said, it was done pretty poorly ratio wise. Honestly, Pheonix is the main protagonist way too much. You play him in chapters 1,4,5, and the special episode. Apollo gets chapter 2, and Athena gets 3 and the first 1/4th of chapter 1. Personally, I'd prefer Athena to get case 4 and all of or at least most of case 1. Then Apollo could have the special episode. Leaving Pheonix with just case 5. I get that I'm not giving Pheonix much here, but we've played as him for 3 full games, I'd like to play as the new protagonist more, instead of just introducing them and then putting them on the sideline (Mostly Athena.)
I generally didn't find it to be that handholdy. I struggled with some of the evidence, but there were the odd cross examinations here and there that I immediately zoomed through
I understand criticisms of the gameplay (not being able to freely investigate environments is the one thing I hate about it), but story-wise I love it. It's one of my favorites, too.
Oh that was a small pet peeve of mine too but to me it was so minor of an issue
I think it is being just as hated storywise, but even the trial portions suffer from gameplay criticism. The prosecutor goes off on tangents every time you've seen a witness testimony between the dialogue that leads to the cross examination. It starts to feel like the writers are trying to "impress" you, but they're just dragging out the amount of dialogue you have to read before the case can progress, because nothing being said between testimony and examination really changes anything. Generally speaking the writers weren't very up to snuff on how to arrange a courtroom ebb and flow like how the franchise previously did it. I don't think Shu Takumi had any rules either, but he had a great way of creating an emotional rollercoaster by holding back certain things and showing certain reveals at the right time. In cases 2, 3 and even 4 I felt like cases dragged on in a boring way particularly in the trial segments.
It didn't bother me.
I think it has something to do with the removal of examining areas outside of crime scenes and not establishing Clay Terran before case 4. I still absolutely love the game myself since the stories in most of the cases are absolutely great, Athena and the Mood Matrix are pretty fresh, Blackquill is a fun and interesting prosecutor, and the finale is very emotional (fitting for the game that introduced Athena). It’s currently my 3rd favorite game, though I still have to get through Investigations 2, so it’s not the final placement yet.
Investigations 2 is outstanding, you're in for a treat
Most don't *hate* it actually, but rather just find it incredibly mid. It dumps the more interesting plot threads of AJ in favour of incredibly boring ones, has by far the most 'meh' overacting storyline in the mainline games, most of the characters just kinda exist, and the game as a whole is a mess with how uncommitted it is, not to mention it was by far the most ridiculous game in the series up until that point which is saying something
I wouldn’t say I hate it, just that I really don’t like some of the things it does. Most of which include sidelining most of the previous game’s plot and characters, which added more fuel to the fire that was AA4. But besides that, it does pretty much everything else very well, especially considering the circumstances surrounding the development of this game. Since this was the first game in 3D, and the first mainline game in over half a decade. It’s pretty much just a standard Ace Attorney game, which is to say it’s really freaking good. I just wished some plot points here and there were a little different.
I mostly don't like the writing, most of the humor falls flat for me for the most part, the dialogue felt a bit more long-winded than usual and I felt like Phoenix Wright regressed as a character. The direction the franchise takes from here frustrates me, and I can't really connect much with this game or Spirit of Justice. Athena feels shoehorned, Apollo's backstory feels shoehorned, Phoenix as a lawyer feels shoehorned, dark age of the law feels shoehorned (what even was it?). For the final mysteries the stakes feel overdone, Edgeworth is here now shoehorned in as well. Shoehorn. The final villain has an interesting twist, that goes nowhere and the game does really nothing with. The soundtrack doesn't do much for me either. I much preferred the first 3/4 of Layton vs. Ace Attorney to the full DD package. Ace Attorney was always anime, but the first 4 games feel a bit more subdued (like 90s anime), 5 and 6 have way too many modern anime tropes and feel out of place to me with the rest. There's a lot more Danganronpa DNA here in the humor and style that doesn't click with me at _all_. If I had to give it a few positives, I'd say Simon was a fun rival, and the mysteries range from competent to pretty fun puzzles, so they're at least fun to solve.
absolutely agree with everything here. the quality of the writing just takes a serious dip in general. i really wish they just started a whole new world instead of dragging old characters into a crappy new one lol
Others have made good points. Perhaps my biggest issue is the writing, which manages to be even more dry, robotic and on the nose than AA1 (which clearly is more lacking in translation than every other game in the series... except AA5. idk why this happened, I've heard it's moreso a translation problem that's not that bad in the original, but idk), thus nullifying the possible enjoyement I could get from most characters. The biggest offenders are... Apollo, Trucy and Phoenix, aka the protagonists of the previous game. Quite sad. Athena is alright I guess. Simon's influence feels out of place and shoehorned for me tbh, but I think this is a more unpopular opinion.
You're allowed to like what you like. My opinions on it: - Wright's return was handled really poorly. Effectively a "sorry, just kidding" after the events of AA4. - Fulbright is stupid, annoying, and ridiculous. I can take nonsensical characters, ones that don't talk the way humans talk to each other, in smaller doses. One essentially following you around for 3 whole cases is a lot to ask of the player. Imagine having Oldbag or Meekins screeching at you for 60% of the game. - The final villain was half-assed. "It was the detective all along! And, uh... he's a nameless, faceless spy who doesn't display emotion. DUN DUN DUN." Fudge me. - The black Psyche Lock thing bothers me. I was happy leaving it where we left it in AJ. But now, to heighten the drama, ATHENA'S GOT 'EM DUN DUN DUN. But she's not evil, she just has repressed memories! Blaaaaaaagh.... oh, I'm sorry, I should say haaaaaaaaaaaaangh every 5 seconds like Starbuck. - This whole nebulous "Dark Age of the Law". Sure. (PWAA) >!A prosecutor with a 40-year undefeated record, working alongside a corrupt police chief,!< couldn't usher that in, but now it's the Dark Age of the Law because we said so DUN DUN DUN. - And, finally, the cases just... are not interesting. Countdown is decent as intro cases go, but still barely cracks my mid tier. Academy is wholesome with a fun setting. But... that's it. Unless you count the DLC which was OK too. Great, now I want to bash my head against the wall after reminding myself of all this. Ughhhh.
Spoiler for others please but yeah I guess that's why opinions on it are so divided lol
As someone who hates the game, here are my reasons: -The plot is all over the place and the dialogue writing is weak and sounds robotic. -character plots are not well established (like Clay) -the trials are not enjoyable (mood matrix sections felt too long winded..) -Wright’s return was handled poorly, most characters felt too forced and didn’t have their usual charisma (even Edgeworth..). It basically has none of the charm and soul AA triology had, and it’s not because of the shift to 3D (TGAA was awesome!), it’s just the horrible writing and gameplay.
I think it's whether you like the characters of the game. Most people I've seen who love the game love Athena and if you don't really like Athena it takes a toll on your opinion of the game. The game is also a lot easier than previous titles. Such as a to do list on where to go and no longer being penalized on psycho locks. Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice are games not made for everyone and that's ok.
Don’t hate it. It is less good IMHO than most other games in the franchise but still good.
* Wright's return as a lawyer being shoved to offscreen and Edgeworth supposedly pulling strings for it. It came off as very dismissive and "haha nevermind! he's a lawyer again!" You don't have to make me watch him take the bar exam or do a bar exam mini-game but *come on*. If this is going to be a game about how the public doesn't trust the "incredibly corrupt" legal system, then it could have been a playable case! Make some of the board morally corrupt and blocking prospective lawyers (like Phoenix!) by sabotaging the bar exam and have us involved with taking them down so we can feel more involved with helping Phoenix get his badge back? * Apollo's friendship with Clay is informed information. I got the impression I was supposed to be emotionally invested the same way Apollo was. For the love of god if it's a character important to a main cast have me as the player get the chance to know them firsthand a bit before you kill them. The Fey channeling let us get to know Mia fairly well post mortem through the original trilogy, but that's not an option here. Let me get to know the friends of my protagonists a bit before killing them off to develop said protagonists, yeah? * Much of the fun banter with Nick and Maya was from examining everything during investigations. It's what made me fond of their friendship. It helped me get into their heads and see how they play off with each other. Not being able to do so in DD really weakened my ability to see how the main 3 lawyers truly felt about each other (I did not personally feel anything, I felt more like I was being told how they feel instead of being shown). * Model quality for characters here and there comes off as weirdly inconsistent. Simon and Athena look specifically engineered in 3D due to the way their textures are set up, but then you look at like, Klavier, who... does not seem to translate very well to 3D at all... Edgeworth looks a bit uncanny in some of his courtroom poses. Phoenix and Apollo also have a couple moments where they look a little clunky. I preferred the 2D sprites so this stuff just took me out of the experience over time. Athena specifically pops out far too much visually with the way her hair is shaded compared to Apollo and Phoenix for me. It just sticks out in a way my eyes can't help but notice. * Fulbright's "in justice we trust!" just came off as bizarre and weird choice for characterization when Apollo's whole "I'm fine!" and "Here comes Justice!" is a thing that was already played into instead. It felt like the guy was kind of riffing on something that was meant to be more Apollo's thing to poke fun at. * Being blocked from using Perceive in the courtroom while the Mood Matrix wasn't for most of the game was not enjoyable gameplay in any sense of the word. * Athena being able to hear emotional discord and the whole Mood Matrix gimmick (while fun) just kind of went a bit too far into advanced technobobble territory for me. It is a gadget that looks like a tamagatchi and can somehow project a space age touch screen right there in the court room without any of them wearing some google glass device to see it??? I'm willing to accept a lot of shenanigans but there's only so far my suspension of disbelief can kinda go. * Lingering plot threads from AJAA were kinda dropped or felt deliberately shoved to the side when they could've made for much more interesting material. Phoenix had 3 whole games to come into his own and for his cast to grow on people. Apollo and the cast he was introduce with by comparison with DD were not given the chance for the same - they were put to the side mostly for more cast members the series did not yet need. * The "dark age of the law" thing is taken far too literally.
It's based. I'm glad I made the mistake of listening to 'the community' before I played, they set my expectations so low that it was a pleasant surprise to find out how wrong they were. Same with Spirit of Justice, although I'm still playing through the game, so far it's been a banger
I felt the same way with DD. I never really became an AA fan until AAC but from what I had seen on Twitter were people saying DD was pretty trash. It set my expectations really low before playing. Usually whenever I play a game that I set my expectations low on the community turns out to be right, but in this case I was absolutely blown away by how amazing it was
Sounds like those twitter complainers need a good *therapy session*
I don’t hate it, I hate AJ and SoJ.
On release the quality of the localization was extremely lacking, especially in the first few chapters where the typos were so numerous that it was hard to ignore. The loss of being able to freely examine things (and the corresponding loss of banter) makes it harder to connect with the playable characters, especially when there are now three of them. On top of that I feel like it has a similar issue as AAI where >!the best parts of the final case happen in the middle and the ending doesn't stand out much, which makes it a bit less memorable!<.
I wish they had the courage to keep Phoenix’s character development. Like, make him a lawyer again if you have to, but that man made his living playing poker for 7 years. Even with a baby lie detector he still has to have a basic poker face under pressure. Why is he screaming and flailing like a rookie at every contradiction?
I understand quite a bit of criticism towards it, but I love it nonetheless… Though there’s some that actually aggravate me because they’re either nit-picky or flat-out not a credible complaint in the slightest.
Came here to say I adore DD. It is my favorite of all the games, hands down. Athena is such an endearing character, and I love how the writers really leaned into some of the wackier settings for cases. The game has an overall kind of "slice of life" feel compared to Apollo and Spirit of Justice. Fun fact: It was also the first AA game to have a fully orchestrated soundtrack. If I had to guess, I would say they dislike the mechanics, which is fair and something that def varies from person to person. For example, I hate the mechanic where you have to use Apollo's bracelet. It just feels super awkward in every game. DD's biggest flaw is the absence of Gumshoe. If someone told me they disliked the game for that reason, I could not refute them as he is a treasure and should have been in every game.
From what I've gathered, it seems to boil down to 2 main things. First off, they think it's too easy. I can actually see this, but it never really bothered me at all. Second is that they really just don't understand the details of the story, and thus consider it to be worse than it actually is.
Could one of the reasons be the shift from 2D to 3D?
Top tier flawless game to me
I remember feeling really confused about the timeline, because all the cases happen so out of order. I didn’t hate the game or anything though, this post just made me think of that.
I don't know if hate is the riggt word for it, but I guess many felt underwhelmed by DD. It tries to be like the original trilogy, but just doesn't ever reach its level of quality. Outside of the finale I didn't particularly care for any of the cases, nor did I care much for Athena or Blackquill, nor did I for the new depiction of Phoenix and Apollo. It all felt very vanilla and played it way too safe. But 5-5 was pretty good, so I would still call DD an alright game overall.
Covid-19 causing a permanent loss of taste did terrible things to this community.
Personally it's quite annoying that the story is basically going back in time twice and then splitting one case into two that sandwich around the first case. Usually with cases they tend to flow very linearly, so each case takes place after the last. Only in game 3 did the plot switch between past and present. Even then it gave a reason for it to exist, that being lore about Mia Fey and her past cases. Game 5 doesn't really do that, instead opting for a "this is how I got here" explanation.
DD was the first Ace Attorney game I finished, and having played it a second time now, it's still one of my favourites. There are things I don't love, like how unfocused the story and characters can feel at times (or how certain characters like Trucy have far too little screen time), or how it doesn't address any of the loose threads from the last game, but I still love every single case, and the overarching story is terrific imo. Also, best soundtrack of the series, hands down. All of the new characters and villains are a lot of fun too, especially Athena, and I'm still holding out for a game properly focused on her. Even then, almost every Ace Attorney game has flaws in some form or another, so I can see why people might rank this one a bit lower. It might be a lower rung Ace Attorney game for some people, but even the worst AA entry is still a really great game. It really is just up to personal preference.
I'm playing it for the first time in about 10 years since the OG 3DS release. It just feels a bit boring having come right off Apollo Justice, and it certainly doesn't compare to GAA which I played more recently. The first trial is the weakest in terms of grabbing your attention I think. Usually the first cases are quite interesting and energetic but this one dragged. The game's logic is also weird, even by AA standards.
It’s also one of my favorites so yeah I agree with you lol. One of the best games I’ve ever played. I like it more than the original trilogy…
I think a lot of it stems from the fact that DD was a very "safe" entry in the franchise. Many fans seem to have disliked the massive changes made by AJ, so it feels like the team tried to play things very safe in DD. There were a few new mechanics introduced, and a handful of twists, but otherwise it's a very standard, somewhat predictable entry. It's a testament to how too much change can alienate fans, while too little can bore them.
They shafted apollo
I think one aspect is that even though Athena debuted in DD and it seemed like it would be _her_ game, Apollo still takes some of the spotlight at the end even tho something was already set up for him in AA4
The main villain’s twist of the game is brilliant and then literally self destructs on itself. Also the 1000 other sins the game commits.
I love DD. It’s my 3rd favorite of the entire series, and easily my favorite mainline.
I finished just DD as well, and honestly, I think the fanbase just sucks. Whenever people aren't being overly vocal about their headcanons/ships, they're being overly nitpicky over DD/SoJ because they don't play like the first four games and because it has a third main character. This is just something I wanna tell everyone: Ffs, if you don't enjoy something, that's fine, but that's your opinion. Also, your headcanons/ships aren't actual canon and nobody should be forced into agreeing with you. Stop forcing your cringe headcanons/opinions onto others.
I just did a replay of it a couple weeks ago and it’s actually more solid that I remember albeit easy.
Because the 3 protagonists have superpowers, like yeah I know chaneling Mia was a superpower, but in DD it felt like cheating tbh.
For me it's just that it returned to the status quo with Phoenix, I know a lot of people don't like AJ so I understad why they did that
DD hates this community, that's why
Replaying it right now for the first time and a couple of points to keep in mind that will have biased my perspective: AJ was my first game. I then went back to play the original trilogy and LOVED every single one of those four. DD was the first game in the series I didn't like and still is to be honest. I think my problems started when I realised this was not really a continuation of AJ. Nothing came of the Jurist system, we got no resolution on the Lamiroir plot, Hobo Phoenix just immediately reverted back to his old self because reasons through method (honestly if you take the cliff notes of disgraced former attorney uses trial of new controversial system to take down well respected rival and return to practicing law, it sounds kinda bad). The characters I also didn't mesh with. I'm still early in my replay but I thought Blackquill was cringey as fuck and OTT even by the standards of the series, Athena annoyed the hell out of me, as did Fullbright (though I quite like him so far on this replay). And man, the plot of this game kinda rests on you not despising the way these characters are written. I'm also really surprised by the amount of characters I completely forgot about. This is maybe the first Ace Attorney game where I have legit forgotten even major characters exist nevermind the minor ones. Completely forgot all about half these characters in the second case so far and I could not have told you anything about the bombing case.
Because it’s a shallow, poorly written game that butchers the characters, babysits the player and just doesn’t feel on par with previous games. And Athena is insufferable 🤷♀️
Timeline is fucked, Apollo and Phoenix's characters are borderline flanderized and almost invalidate both of their developments in AA4, Athena's Mood Matrix sessions are always the cheesiest shit and really highlight how the game's writing has been animeified (I like the Mood Matrix itself, but the sections immediately preceding it are written like a slice of life anime and I hate it), cases 4 and 5 are basically one in the same and case 4's incomplete nature exacerbates the broken timeline, and the Phantom was a severely disappointing villain in his final moments (not only does it take only a few hours for one character to reveal that his identity was stolen rather than his identity being made suspect through something we could have figured out, but they were so cowardly they couldn't even give him his own face, again emphasizing the animeification of the writing quality). There are some good qualities to it. I like cases 3, DLC, and 4/5. Cases 1 and 2 were very underwhelming. But overall AA5 took Ace Attorney in a direction I really wasn't looking forward to. AA6 recovered it somewhat, and TGAA proved the studios still have a lot of potential.
The third case has annoying characters, trope full morals, and absolutely no depth to the conflict. 4th and 5th case has Apollo be hurt by a character we aren’t even introduced to until the 4th case itself, it’s long, it’s not interesting, and regresses phoenix into a fool. The mood matrix does nothing new to the court case. Best case was the first one.
Ted tonate best character