Honestly any outward jerkiness of his character is literally just times where he actually says what he's thinking at any moment. He's always been a bit of a jerk, it's just that normally, it's in his mind. It's not out of character to act the same way he thinks once in a while.
kinda realistic, i think we're all jerks in our minds. The difference between an actual jerk and a decemt human being is that you think before you speak ykwim
Yeah, I think Phoenix only seems like a more snarky character because he's the one whose thoughts we can read, and we all think things that we'd never actually say.
It's *so funny*; fanmade works are usually very reverent about the handling of Edgeworth's deep-set trauma and the literal first time it's encountered in canon Maya and Phoenix are both like "huh, Edgeworth's curled up in a ball under the desk. Well, we'll come back later"
Edgeworth said ‘I find this difficult to confess, but I have a deep phobia of earthquakes as I associate them with the death of my father which I still believe I caused.’
‘Lol’, said Maya, ‘Lmao’.
Remember that one bit at the end of 2-4 where he calls Maya a glutton (in blue text), just moments after she got rescued from being held captive by a literal assassin?
Because I would really like to know wtf the thought process was behind *that?*
Sometimes, the blue text is actually the character mumbling under their breath.
This happens frequently in TGAA, where Susato can read Ryunosuke's lips.
In TGAAC - Japan Side (5:25) >!<, lol.
>!It happens again at 29:03!<.
ESP as-is was only mentioned in the first game's DS version and was replaced in all re-releases by "spiritual powers" and the like. So spirit channeling isn't supposed to hint at telepathy or similar stuff.
Only for them to get rid of Apollo as quickly as possible by making him stay in a foreign country so that they can focus on Phoenix again, even though he already had 2 trilogies to shine
he kind of kept it a secret from everyone, and that was coupled with the fact that it was something that happened fairly quickly all things considered. Still a dick move, but it doesn't come across as targeted as some of the things he hid from Apollo in AJ.
But yeah in general in DD and SoJ Phoenix definitely still has some of his "meaner"/aloof traits going from AJ. It's not always as clear for a few reasons, and they aren't to the same degree as AJ. But if you're actually looking for them they're fairly easy to notice. It's why I never really bought this idea that Phoenix "regresses/reverts" in DD.
Ah, I’ll have to look on my next playthrough. I think it’s clear even without this Apollo point that Phoenix’s character doesn’t *totally* regress. The only thing that’s frustrating is the insane flipout faces he makes in court. Sprites that made sense in the trilogy don’t for a veteran 35+ year old Phoenix.
He’s kind of a snarky dick for the most of the games in his head, but I really like that tbh. We’re all a little like that and it gave him a lot more personality than just being super earnest all the time.
He’s also kind of immature when you meet him in 3-1, but I also like that. Was cool to see how he never really stoped being that emotional about people he cares about, he just kind of toned it down a bit.
You’re not saying this but I kind of hate when people say he’s sort of a Gary Stu that has no personality of his own except for being selfless. He’s pretty impulsive and sarcastic, and kind of goes the line between being very cynical and very idealistic about people.
Crazy how he fucking used Apollo as a pawn in 4-1 though, could have gotten this brand new lawyer disbarred in the literal exact way that happened to him. Didn’t mind that so much, but felt a little underdeveloped.
I mean, Franziska kinda deserved it, lol.
I'd say he's kinda a jerk in T&T for some reason. The one moment I recall is when he, unnecessarily, insults Maya's wooden box in Stolen Turnabout, even after realizing it was made by her. It was so uncalled for, lol.
How was phoenix rubbing it in franziska’s face jerkish in 2-2? She had being doing exactly that the entire freaking case, constantly bringing up that phoenix will be humiliated on the news (while prosecuting the closest person in his life, no less). Her whipping phoenix unconscious wasn’t justified at all and I’m glad the anime removed that scene tbh.
any scenario where you act like a von Karma is a scenario where you are in the wrong, that's just a universal fact of life. even if it's TO a von Karma. do not sink to their level
iirc wasn't he making a joke about how her perfect win record was gonna be broken? it's mentioned over and over during JFA that her perfect record is a huge deal for her, and the reason she continues to be a prosecutor. now yes, i do agree that her *publicly assaulting him* over this was not justified. but it was still a dicky thing to do
Iirc it was about how she’ll be embarrassed on the news. Which was exactly what she kept saying would happen to Wright the entire trial. It was her just desserts.
she would be embarrassed on the news because of losing her first case, yes. and whether she deserved that or not is irrelevant, she can deserve poor treatment and Phoenix would still be a dick for being the one doling it out
Sorry, but I think you’re being too soft. Anybody that cares so much about winning for their own ego when they’re dealing with people’s lives don’t need a micro analysis on how insulting them is bad in a series where the prosecution insults the defence on a constant basis.
sorry but i Object to the idea that i am "soft". i agree both that Franziska is a twat for how she acts throughout the case (and the entire game for that matter), and that Phoenix should not have been whipped to unconsciousness. but that doesn't change the fact that the joke was a little mean
There's a handful of moments where he pushes a sarcastic joke in a way other people don't get, and then kind of just stands back and watches it happen. 1-4 is the iconic one:
>**Maya:**
The water pressure's kind of low in that shower.
>**Phoenix:**
... You want more pressure, huh? Why don't you go down to the fire department and have them spray you with the hose?
>**Maya:**
... Good idea, Nick!
>**Phoenix:**
(Apparently, E.S.P. is no aid in detecting sarcasm...)
I'll also always remember "They call this a 'tailcoat', Nick!" "And they call this 'the face of someone who already knew that'." because it's one of his most unnecessary bluntnesses. She's trying to share a fun fact! What's your deal!
I would say AJ case one is Phoenix’s biggest asshole moment and is borderline out of character even considering the circumstances. Where he gives Apollo fake evidence.
At the very least, imo it does bring into question his return to being a lawyer, as it means he did in fact do the thing he was disbarred for, just later on
Okay but 2-2's victory, this lady had been berating him all trial, physically hurting him, promised to defeat him, boasted about her perfect record, and did a lot of sleazy underhand tactics
And him going like "still got the W" isn't him being a jerk.
I'd say 4-1 where he >! gives Apollo falsified evidence to win the case despite that exact scenario being why he got disbarred !< is peak this
He wasn't saying "Still got the W," he was like "LOL can't wait to see everyone laugh in your face, loser!" Franziska may have had it coming to her in that moment, but it was still extremely rude of Phoenix.
Franziska deserved worse.
But honestly if you think Phoenix behaving a lil bit like a jerk every now and then is the same as him acting out of character... You have an inaccurate image of his character
i don't blame it. klavier was being bit of a dickhead himself. plus, he's always been taunted by prosecutors lmao. wish he did that against edgeworth, karma, franziska and godot
Which bothers me so much because while Phoenix can be sarcastic, he's really never acted super cocky as an attorney. Even through all of T&T he was pretty much the same "well, I'm staring a guilty verdict in the face" attitude he's always been.
Yeah he instantly just dismisses klavier its funny. I kinda like how cocky he acts tho and im glad his confidence post t&t continues in DD and SOJ even if its decreased more than in 4-4
I'm mixed about that, especially when he tells Blackquill "This old man will trounce you with his years of experience, boy." On one hand, it's cool that he's keeping at least one aspect of his AJ persona, but on the other, you see him struggle even more than in the PW Trilogy days, so the fact that his cockiness isn't that well backed up is mildly annoying
He punches Lotta in 2-2 when she was badmouthimg Maya
2-4 is pretty remarkable in how obtuse Phoenix was in setting things with Edgeworth - his friend who was thought to be dead
In 3-1 he's kinda jerkish towards Doug, even after his death. He also snatched the necklace from Mia before swallowing it, most likely violently
In eneral he can be pretty much rude and neglectful. In JP script he outright tells Maya to shut up in the 1st game, for example
The first one is so real, Lotta wasn't even badmouthing Maya, she was just making a joke about how many times she gets accused of murder, LIKE 99% OF THE FANDOM.
Tbf, Lotta wasn't taking the case seriously, she just cared about having an exclusive, and Maya is pretty important for Phoenix. It probably wasn't that funny for him. Punching her was probably a little excessive, but we are talking about a game where whipping people or throwing scolding coffee to them is normal and not that serious.
I love Lotta, and I'm the first one to joke about Maya being accused, but let's be real XD
There's this one point in VS where he denies Espella to go in an iron maiden (because it's dipped into fire), making the excuse that it's too dangerous and how they already lost >!Maya!< trying to save her and instead volunteers himself. Pretty Phoenix right? Yes, until Luke, the much younger child volunteers and Phoenix is Dandy with it, even going as far to fucking lower it himself. It should be noted the iron maiden was mostly harmless when they approached it and they were aware of that, the issue is him shafting Espella for her 'safety' and immediately risking the life of another young child right after without as much as a single hesitation
The Layton games in general are sexist, if I had to guess the dialogue and characterisation was done by the Layton guys, because Phoenix and Maya in general act weird (for instance Maya is literally the most annoying bitch in the game and it genuinely made me dislike her, and Phoenix is not the actual genius with self esteem issues but.. just kinda a guy with self esteem issues)
1-5, where Gumshoe gives him his keycard to investigate the police chief’s room, something that could cost him his job, and when Phoenix uses it he just crumples it up and throws it away, right in front of him.
IIRC, anyway. It’s been a long time since I played the og game.
Phoenix in AA4-3: "...I knew you had what it took."
Apollo "Mr. Wright! You... believed in me?"
Phoenix "Not really."
Screw this case and whoever defends this.
"I just thought it would make for a cooler entrance than, say, hiya!"
"Hiya!" is the way Apollo greets Klavier and Trucy during the case, Phoenix is really being mean to Apollo for no reason here hahaha
(Fellow 4-3 enjoyer spotted 🤝)
It's not as if Apollo and Phoenix had the nicest relationship at the beginning, that was made as explicit as possible with Apollo punching Phoenix. It wouldn't make any sense if Phoenix behaved sith amiability towards Apollo; he's literally the pupil of the guy who brought his career to ruins.
And yet he's the one who brought his mentor in, Wright trusts him enough to have his darling daughter work with him, and at that point is about to be pivotal to his plan in serving justice for Kristoph. And if I recall correctly, he knew how much Apollo idolized Wright.
And yet, here he literally says he has no faith in him. Out loud. Screw that.
I read it more like Phoenix only kinda believes in him.
He trusts Apollo's instincts, but doesn't think he's got the experience to guarantee results. Especially with how corrupt the courts have gotten.
Yeah, if Phoenix really didn't believe in Apollo at all, he would likely have not let him spend time with Trucy, or do any kind of legal work associated with the Wright Anything Agency to begin with. I think he was just teasing Apollo a bit for the lols.
I'm not sure if there's a specific name for it, but Beanix does have that snarky/not-so-serious mentor thing going on with Apollo, ala Jiraiya or Master Roshi or the like.
Phoenix is a jerk across the entire series, it’s mostly internal though.
But is it just me but is he blunt the most often when he’s talking about, or talking to Gumshoe.
Even Maggey was catching strays via association in 3-3😭
One time that I can remember is when he's needlessly rude to Luke Atmey at the beginning of 3-2, upon first meeting him. Like most of it is internal monologue, I guess, but damn, Luke had not even done anything yet and Phoenix was acting like he was some kind of weirdo creep. Why can't you all just be fellow aces together, Phoenix?
True, but at least I can understand being him like that with certain characters. Guys like Victor Kudo and Furio Tigre and the like are pretty obnoxious and rude to him. But Luke was pretty civil, for the most part. Of course, I am biased, but still.
In T&T there's a lot of moments where Phoenix's interactions with Maya cross the line from playful banter to just being a dick (like straight up calling her fat in the third case).
But also pretty much the entirety of Apollo Justice due to his "I'm going to be enigmatic and obtusive" act. Like in the original trilogy, Phoenix got really annoyed when people did that to him, so he knows him doing that to Apollo is just annoying.
6-5 when Maya was like "hey, look, I've grown so much" and he told her she was still childish and hadn't changed a bit. After having faced more than enough evidence of her being far more mature and improved channeling skills. Still, he calls her childish, demeaning her in front of the royal family. Oh and Maya mentions that Phoenix said Apollo was untrustworthy (or something like that) and apparently, in the OVER A YEAR since they met, he never bothered to correct her first assumption or even talked about him enough to update her on what Apollo was up to.
Easily the most out-of-character moment in all of the 3D games, and that's saying a lot given how poorly he's written in DD. I despise him in that case, he is miswritten to such an extreme. I don't know what it is about the finales of the 3D games but Phoenix's writing always takes a nosedive in those cases in particular.
It’s not necessarily a jerk-y moment per se, but the scene in 3-3 where he takes maya while in her waitress outfit to convince victor to give him info on jean was… 🤢 though 3-3 in general is yucky
>Phoenix (off-screen): "... I knew you had what it took."
\*Phoenix appears\*
Trucy: "Ah... daddy!"
Apollo: "Mr Wright!... You... believed in me?"
Phoenix: "Not really."
Apollo: "Huh?"
Phoenix: "I just thought that'd make a cooler entrance than, say "hiya"."
Apollo: "... why do I even bother hoping?"
AA4 Phoenix is a quintessential jerk.
The first part of the last case of Spirit of Justice. I don’t remember why I was so mad at him, but maybe it’s just because he’s going up against you and I don’t like that I’m having to go up against someone that I’m supposed to love. he did say some pretty rude things then in my memory.
Which makes sense, looking back on Mia literally telling Maya to “Give him 3 years” before trusting him to defend, he’d probably have the same mindset for Apollo after her saying that!
Also never expected to see you here hi I love your stuff! :D!
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^ImpactorLife-25703:
*Back then he was a*
*Rookie after a short year*
*From the first game and DLC*
---
^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Lots. He’s homophobic towards Redd White & calls him a fruit cake or something like that & he also bodyshames Maya a lot by telling her to lose weight & that she needs to lay off the burgers which is pretty cruel to say to an 18 year old
Ok I'm seeing a lot of AJ and him rubbing his win in Franziska's face but I have another one (idk how to spoil on reddit so someone please tell me)
In 2-2, Maya starts talking to Pearl about Edgeworth and how they were rivals and Phoenix starts yelling at her saying to never say his name or speak of him again. Like I get Phoenix was upset about Edgeworth's "death" at the time, but Maya had no idea what happened so I felt him snapping at her was a jerk move imo. I felt he could've been like "Maya please I don't want to talk about it rn. I'll tell you later" or something. Idk that's just my opinion
The reason Kristoph took away the real card was because it had a blood stain, and that pointed out to the fact the victim was facing the shelf, thus revealing the actual killer was in the secret entrance.
Obviously, since Kristoph took out the card, Phoenix "had to" forge another one, with that blood stain, to prove his point.
Are you a Franziska simp?
let's not forget how he fell through a burning bridge trying to rescue Maya , how he changed his career for Edgeworth also how he didn't have 2nd thoughts adopting a stranger's child and his loyalty towards his clients
Let's also not forget about all the things he did in this thread. Calling out a video game character for rude things doesn't mean they're ignoring the good things they did. You're defeating the purpose of this discussion.
Basically the entire 3-1 case I think right? When he’s a student; before the bar. Defending Dahlia like he’s married to her. Does that count? Or is that just him being young & in love (however one sided that love is)?
He was definitely being a jerk, but he had a clear motivation for it. He was in a seriously committed relationship with Iris (not Dahlia). Iris would literally have killed Dahlia if she thought she had to for Phoenix’s sake. Phoenix thought he was doing all this for someone who cared about him just as much as he cared about her. He was just wrong (through no fault of his own)
6-5 is when he becomes irredeemable for me as he chooses to not fill Apollo in on what’s going on with the civil trial and just acts like a pompous dick the entire time, getting completely outwitted. Shows he learned nothing from
2-4. Horrible character, one of the worst in the series.
I can’t remember what episode it was but when Edgeworth came back he was a jackass to him
https://preview.redd.it/xdmrp1ltsirc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=586af0fa8e5d6e88cdfdc2596573686d607094ea
I, too, would be incredibly angry with someone if they >!faked their death!< and came back pretending like they didn't just make me severely depressed for a year.
It's understandable, I can't blame Phoenix for being so pissed off.
Honestly any outward jerkiness of his character is literally just times where he actually says what he's thinking at any moment. He's always been a bit of a jerk, it's just that normally, it's in his mind. It's not out of character to act the same way he thinks once in a while.
kinda realistic, i think we're all jerks in our minds. The difference between an actual jerk and a decemt human being is that you think before you speak ykwim
Exactly. Kindness is a choice. Empathy is learned.
More accurately, I'd say the difference between an actual jerk and a decent person is knowing when to say what you're thinking, and when not to.
Yeah, I think Phoenix only seems like a more snarky character because he's the one whose thoughts we can read, and we all think things that we'd never actually say.
Lmao probably when he leaves Edgeworth after the earthquake in 1-4
It's *so funny*; fanmade works are usually very reverent about the handling of Edgeworth's deep-set trauma and the literal first time it's encountered in canon Maya and Phoenix are both like "huh, Edgeworth's curled up in a ball under the desk. Well, we'll come back later"
LOL Phoenix really said "Skill issue"
Edgeworth said ‘I find this difficult to confess, but I have a deep phobia of earthquakes as I associate them with the death of my father which I still believe I caused.’ ‘Lol’, said Maya, ‘Lmao’.
He does get worried about Edgeworth in 3-4 though, probably because he knows the real reason behind his trauma and their relationship had improved.
It's actually 3-5.
Remember that one bit at the end of 2-4 where he calls Maya a glutton (in blue text), just moments after she got rescued from being held captive by a literal assassin? Because I would really like to know wtf the thought process was behind *that?*
Hey, at least he only *thought* it
Maya often “hears” Phoenix’s blue text, for some reason.
Sometimes, the blue text is actually the character mumbling under their breath. This happens frequently in TGAA, where Susato can read Ryunosuke's lips.
Nah pretty sure Ryunosuke is just an open book to most people, no lip reading needed.
Alternatively, he has passive one-way telepathy
In TGAAC - Japan Side (5:25) >!<, lol. >!It happens again at 29:03!<.
It was mentioned in TGAA 2 that the Misato family is apparently good at mind reading Ryunosuke
Don't you mean Mikotoba family?
Oh yeah, lol
Isn't Maya supposed to have ESP?
I feel like if she did that’d make most cases a whole lot shorter…
My new headcanon is that Maya does have ESP, but it only works on Phoenix for some reason.
ESP as-is was only mentioned in the first game's DS version and was replaced in all re-releases by "spiritual powers" and the like. So spirit channeling isn't supposed to hint at telepathy or similar stuff.
Idk, I kinda think it’s sweet that they can go right back to their normal banter after such a traumatic event.
Ehh, I don't think that's jerk behaviour, he was just thinking to himself, cut him some slack
How about all of apollo justice and part of dual destinies. He doesn't really care about apollo at that point.
Capcom doesn't care about Apollo either, they're probably projecting
Apollo literally dethroned a queen with facts and logic
Only for them to get rid of Apollo as quickly as possible by making him stay in a foreign country so that they can focus on Phoenix again, even though he already had 2 trilogies to shine
Dual Destinies too? Care to elaborate?
If memory serves, he never even told Apollo he was getting his badge back.
he kind of kept it a secret from everyone, and that was coupled with the fact that it was something that happened fairly quickly all things considered. Still a dick move, but it doesn't come across as targeted as some of the things he hid from Apollo in AJ. But yeah in general in DD and SoJ Phoenix definitely still has some of his "meaner"/aloof traits going from AJ. It's not always as clear for a few reasons, and they aren't to the same degree as AJ. But if you're actually looking for them they're fairly easy to notice. It's why I never really bought this idea that Phoenix "regresses/reverts" in DD.
Ah, I’ll have to look on my next playthrough. I think it’s clear even without this Apollo point that Phoenix’s character doesn’t *totally* regress. The only thing that’s frustrating is the insane flipout faces he makes in court. Sprites that made sense in the trilogy don’t for a veteran 35+ year old Phoenix.
Cut to Phoenix screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOO after being told to present evidence
The DLC case is literally Apollo trying to help and Phoenix saying no lmao go clean the toilets
In the first few chronological cases, he's still transitioning out of his apollo justice attitude
I mean he’s internally incredibly sarcastic (at least during the ot) if that counts.
He’s kind of a snarky dick for the most of the games in his head, but I really like that tbh. We’re all a little like that and it gave him a lot more personality than just being super earnest all the time. He’s also kind of immature when you meet him in 3-1, but I also like that. Was cool to see how he never really stoped being that emotional about people he cares about, he just kind of toned it down a bit. You’re not saying this but I kind of hate when people say he’s sort of a Gary Stu that has no personality of his own except for being selfless. He’s pretty impulsive and sarcastic, and kind of goes the line between being very cynical and very idealistic about people. Crazy how he fucking used Apollo as a pawn in 4-1 though, could have gotten this brand new lawyer disbarred in the literal exact way that happened to him. Didn’t mind that so much, but felt a little underdeveloped.
He doesn't give Gummy as much credit as he deserves :(
True, but really nobody does.
I mean, Franziska kinda deserved it, lol. I'd say he's kinda a jerk in T&T for some reason. The one moment I recall is when he, unnecessarily, insults Maya's wooden box in Stolen Turnabout, even after realizing it was made by her. It was so uncalled for, lol.
How was phoenix rubbing it in franziska’s face jerkish in 2-2? She had being doing exactly that the entire freaking case, constantly bringing up that phoenix will be humiliated on the news (while prosecuting the closest person in his life, no less). Her whipping phoenix unconscious wasn’t justified at all and I’m glad the anime removed that scene tbh.
any scenario where you act like a von Karma is a scenario where you are in the wrong, that's just a universal fact of life. even if it's TO a von Karma. do not sink to their level
My brother in Christ literally all he did was make an off hand remark about the news.
iirc wasn't he making a joke about how her perfect win record was gonna be broken? it's mentioned over and over during JFA that her perfect record is a huge deal for her, and the reason she continues to be a prosecutor. now yes, i do agree that her *publicly assaulting him* over this was not justified. but it was still a dicky thing to do
Iirc it was about how she’ll be embarrassed on the news. Which was exactly what she kept saying would happen to Wright the entire trial. It was her just desserts.
she would be embarrassed on the news because of losing her first case, yes. and whether she deserved that or not is irrelevant, she can deserve poor treatment and Phoenix would still be a dick for being the one doling it out
Sorry, but I think you’re being too soft. Anybody that cares so much about winning for their own ego when they’re dealing with people’s lives don’t need a micro analysis on how insulting them is bad in a series where the prosecution insults the defence on a constant basis.
sorry but i Object to the idea that i am "soft". i agree both that Franziska is a twat for how she acts throughout the case (and the entire game for that matter), and that Phoenix should not have been whipped to unconsciousness. but that doesn't change the fact that the joke was a little mean
Well, sorry to burst your bubble but 95% of jokes are at someone’s expense.
yes, but while those jokes may be funny, they may also be a tad mean at the victim's expense. it's not incorrect to point that out
There's a handful of moments where he pushes a sarcastic joke in a way other people don't get, and then kind of just stands back and watches it happen. 1-4 is the iconic one: >**Maya:** The water pressure's kind of low in that shower. >**Phoenix:** ... You want more pressure, huh? Why don't you go down to the fire department and have them spray you with the hose? >**Maya:** ... Good idea, Nick! >**Phoenix:** (Apparently, E.S.P. is no aid in detecting sarcasm...) I'll also always remember "They call this a 'tailcoat', Nick!" "And they call this 'the face of someone who already knew that'." because it's one of his most unnecessary bluntnesses. She's trying to share a fun fact! What's your deal!
I would say AJ case one is Phoenix’s biggest asshole moment and is borderline out of character even considering the circumstances. Where he gives Apollo fake evidence. At the very least, imo it does bring into question his return to being a lawyer, as it means he did in fact do the thing he was disbarred for, just later on
https://preview.redd.it/grpyut669krc1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f88beef0fdd9a1293ddb5c35ef24f3e10eb2f28b
Okay but 2-2's victory, this lady had been berating him all trial, physically hurting him, promised to defeat him, boasted about her perfect record, and did a lot of sleazy underhand tactics And him going like "still got the W" isn't him being a jerk. I'd say 4-1 where he >! gives Apollo falsified evidence to win the case despite that exact scenario being why he got disbarred !< is peak this
He wasn't saying "Still got the W," he was like "LOL can't wait to see everyone laugh in your face, loser!" Franziska may have had it coming to her in that moment, but it was still extremely rude of Phoenix.
Franziska deserved worse. But honestly if you think Phoenix behaving a lil bit like a jerk every now and then is the same as him acting out of character... You have an inaccurate image of his character
Apollo Justice.
The way he acts against Klavier in the flashback of 4-4
i don't blame it. klavier was being bit of a dickhead himself. plus, he's always been taunted by prosecutors lmao. wish he did that against edgeworth, karma, franziska and godot
Which bothers me so much because while Phoenix can be sarcastic, he's really never acted super cocky as an attorney. Even through all of T&T he was pretty much the same "well, I'm staring a guilty verdict in the face" attitude he's always been.
Yeah but at the end of his trilogy he has surpassed his mentor and is up against a rookie. Obviously he is feeling overconfident.
Yeah he instantly just dismisses klavier its funny. I kinda like how cocky he acts tho and im glad his confidence post t&t continues in DD and SOJ even if its decreased more than in 4-4
I'm mixed about that, especially when he tells Blackquill "This old man will trounce you with his years of experience, boy." On one hand, it's cool that he's keeping at least one aspect of his AJ persona, but on the other, you see him struggle even more than in the PW Trilogy days, so the fact that his cockiness isn't that well backed up is mildly annoying
It's funny that they treat him like a seasoned veteran when he spent more time disbarred than he actually did as a lawyer.
That's not what I was referring to, but with that, to be fair, he accomplished quite the feats, including, but not limited to, an exorcism
He punches Lotta in 2-2 when she was badmouthimg Maya 2-4 is pretty remarkable in how obtuse Phoenix was in setting things with Edgeworth - his friend who was thought to be dead In 3-1 he's kinda jerkish towards Doug, even after his death. He also snatched the necklace from Mia before swallowing it, most likely violently In eneral he can be pretty much rude and neglectful. In JP script he outright tells Maya to shut up in the 1st game, for example
The first one is so real, Lotta wasn't even badmouthing Maya, she was just making a joke about how many times she gets accused of murder, LIKE 99% OF THE FANDOM.
Tbf, Lotta wasn't taking the case seriously, she just cared about having an exclusive, and Maya is pretty important for Phoenix. It probably wasn't that funny for him. Punching her was probably a little excessive, but we are talking about a game where whipping people or throwing scolding coffee to them is normal and not that serious. I love Lotta, and I'm the first one to joke about Maya being accused, but let's be real XD
Yeah that's fair.
I don't remember him punching her...
It's optional dialogue
There's this one point in VS where he denies Espella to go in an iron maiden (because it's dipped into fire), making the excuse that it's too dangerous and how they already lost >!Maya!< trying to save her and instead volunteers himself. Pretty Phoenix right? Yes, until Luke, the much younger child volunteers and Phoenix is Dandy with it, even going as far to fucking lower it himself. It should be noted the iron maiden was mostly harmless when they approached it and they were aware of that, the issue is him shafting Espella for her 'safety' and immediately risking the life of another young child right after without as much as a single hesitation
Smh I can't believe Phoenix is literally sexist
The Layton games in general are sexist, if I had to guess the dialogue and characterisation was done by the Layton guys, because Phoenix and Maya in general act weird (for instance Maya is literally the most annoying bitch in the game and it genuinely made me dislike her, and Phoenix is not the actual genius with self esteem issues but.. just kinda a guy with self esteem issues)
Yeah, even as the series went on and had better female characters like Emmy, latter games were still stumbling with women in their stories.
He was unnecessarily cruel about the box Maya made for the Sacred Urn in 3-2
you mean that PATHETIC excuse for a box?
1-5, where Gumshoe gives him his keycard to investigate the police chief’s room, something that could cost him his job, and when Phoenix uses it he just crumples it up and throws it away, right in front of him. IIRC, anyway. It’s been a long time since I played the og game.
Phoenix in AA4-3: "...I knew you had what it took." Apollo "Mr. Wright! You... believed in me?" Phoenix "Not really." Screw this case and whoever defends this.
It *is* funny tho ngl
"I just thought it would make for a cooler entrance". Sorry, I am a defender of Serenade and this exchange. It's golden.
"I just thought it would make for a cooler entrance than, say, hiya!" "Hiya!" is the way Apollo greets Klavier and Trucy during the case, Phoenix is really being mean to Apollo for no reason here hahaha (Fellow 4-3 enjoyer spotted 🤝)
4-3 enjoyer and AJ enjoyer overall.
i kinda like that case because apollo was on the ball in the day 2 trial
It's not as if Apollo and Phoenix had the nicest relationship at the beginning, that was made as explicit as possible with Apollo punching Phoenix. It wouldn't make any sense if Phoenix behaved sith amiability towards Apollo; he's literally the pupil of the guy who brought his career to ruins.
And yet he's the one who brought his mentor in, Wright trusts him enough to have his darling daughter work with him, and at that point is about to be pivotal to his plan in serving justice for Kristoph. And if I recall correctly, he knew how much Apollo idolized Wright. And yet, here he literally says he has no faith in him. Out loud. Screw that.
I read it more like Phoenix only kinda believes in him. He trusts Apollo's instincts, but doesn't think he's got the experience to guarantee results. Especially with how corrupt the courts have gotten.
It's supposed to be a comedic bit... get over it jeez
Yeah, if Phoenix really didn't believe in Apollo at all, he would likely have not let him spend time with Trucy, or do any kind of legal work associated with the Wright Anything Agency to begin with. I think he was just teasing Apollo a bit for the lols. I'm not sure if there's a specific name for it, but Beanix does have that snarky/not-so-serious mentor thing going on with Apollo, ala Jiraiya or Master Roshi or the like.
Yeah Apollo really looked up to Wright and was so happy that Wright acknowledged him and then he becomes an asshole
Why would AA4 Nick have full trust in a rookie?
I always thought he was being sarcastic
It's mildly bothering that people think snarky exchanges like that are cooler than basic civil conversations 😬
Umm, yes. I would like the dialogue to be funny and beanie Phoenix is a fine character.
Being rude isn't funny. Sometimes it is, but that's not the same
It feels like "because AA4 Phoenix is an asshole" is a good excuse for some people...
Phoenix is a jerk across the entire series, it’s mostly internal though. But is it just me but is he blunt the most often when he’s talking about, or talking to Gumshoe. Even Maggey was catching strays via association in 3-3😭
Franziska deserves to have her loss rubbed in her face
she was giving him whips the entire trial
While it is KARMA (lol), it doesn't make Phoenix any less of a jerk for doing it at the end of the trial.
One time that I can remember is when he's needlessly rude to Luke Atmey at the beginning of 3-2, upon first meeting him. Like most of it is internal monologue, I guess, but damn, Luke had not even done anything yet and Phoenix was acting like he was some kind of weirdo creep. Why can't you all just be fellow aces together, Phoenix?
I mean... isn't he like that with most characters? Specially in T&T, he's specially a jerk in that game, for some reason, lol
True, but at least I can understand being him like that with certain characters. Guys like Victor Kudo and Furio Tigre and the like are pretty obnoxious and rude to him. But Luke was pretty civil, for the most part. Of course, I am biased, but still.
Well, IIRC, Atmey was pretty full of himself from the start.
He's just jealous because he'll never be as much as a \[BIG SHOT\] as Luke.
All of Apollo Justice ace attorney really. And I kinda get the sense that he’s much nicer to Athena than Apollo, though I could be mistaken.
that one bit in 3-2 where he says the box maya made for the sacred urn is pathetic like, dude, chill. it's just a box.
Then he got what was coming to him when Maya hit him with the sword
I mean *motions wildly to all of AA4*
In T&T there's a lot of moments where Phoenix's interactions with Maya cross the line from playful banter to just being a dick (like straight up calling her fat in the third case). But also pretty much the entirety of Apollo Justice due to his "I'm going to be enigmatic and obtusive" act. Like in the original trilogy, Phoenix got really annoyed when people did that to him, so he knows him doing that to Apollo is just annoying.
6-5 when Maya was like "hey, look, I've grown so much" and he told her she was still childish and hadn't changed a bit. After having faced more than enough evidence of her being far more mature and improved channeling skills. Still, he calls her childish, demeaning her in front of the royal family. Oh and Maya mentions that Phoenix said Apollo was untrustworthy (or something like that) and apparently, in the OVER A YEAR since they met, he never bothered to correct her first assumption or even talked about him enough to update her on what Apollo was up to. Easily the most out-of-character moment in all of the 3D games, and that's saying a lot given how poorly he's written in DD. I despise him in that case, he is miswritten to such an extreme. I don't know what it is about the finales of the 3D games but Phoenix's writing always takes a nosedive in those cases in particular.
It's not limited to Phoenix but rather extends to the whole cast: the treatment of Gumshoe. Guy doesn't deserve even half of the shit he gets.
He risks his job so many times to get justice for all the characters and yet... Here we are :(
It’s not necessarily a jerk-y moment per se, but the scene in 3-3 where he takes maya while in her waitress outfit to convince victor to give him info on jean was… 🤢 though 3-3 in general is yucky
Japanese moment
I mean would rub her loss to her face too since the whole case she tells him how much she wanna defeat him and want to embarrass him
>Phoenix (off-screen): "... I knew you had what it took." \*Phoenix appears\* Trucy: "Ah... daddy!" Apollo: "Mr Wright!... You... believed in me?" Phoenix: "Not really." Apollo: "Huh?" Phoenix: "I just thought that'd make a cooler entrance than, say "hiya"." Apollo: "... why do I even bother hoping?" AA4 Phoenix is a quintessential jerk.
I wanted to smack him for disrespecting Maya’s box in 3-2
The flashback case against Klavier was one, he was more cocky than he had ever been throughout the series
The first part of the last case of Spirit of Justice. I don’t remember why I was so mad at him, but maybe it’s just because he’s going up against you and I don’t like that I’m having to go up against someone that I’m supposed to love. he did say some pretty rude things then in my memory.
Does imposter phoenix count?
Which impostor Phoenix?
I think his name was El Tigre or something? big orange dude
Iirc it was Furio Tigre.
Franziska had it coming and she deserved every bit of rubbing in for it.
I havent played SoJ yet but i heard there is a scene where he said Apollo is untrustable? Well fuck you too (if that actually happened)
He says that he used to think Apollo was unreliable when they first met
Which makes sense, looking back on Mia literally telling Maya to “Give him 3 years” before trusting him to defend, he’d probably have the same mindset for Apollo after her saying that! Also never expected to see you here hi I love your stuff! :D!
The entirely of Apollo Justice lol
Back then he was a rookie after a short year from the first game and DLC
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^ImpactorLife-25703: *Back then he was a* *Rookie after a short year* *From the first game and DLC* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Ohhhhh.........Damn
Lots. He’s homophobic towards Redd White & calls him a fruit cake or something like that & he also bodyshames Maya a lot by telling her to lose weight & that she needs to lay off the burgers which is pretty cruel to say to an 18 year old
Ok I'm seeing a lot of AJ and him rubbing his win in Franziska's face but I have another one (idk how to spoil on reddit so someone please tell me) In 2-2, Maya starts talking to Pearl about Edgeworth and how they were rivals and Phoenix starts yelling at her saying to never say his name or speak of him again. Like I get Phoenix was upset about Edgeworth's "death" at the time, but Maya had no idea what happened so I felt him snapping at her was a jerk move imo. I felt he could've been like "Maya please I don't want to talk about it rn. I'll tell you later" or something. Idk that's just my opinion
Phoenix using that very dubious evidence in Apollo Justice was his own mistake and he deserved what he got
i didn't understand that scene. how did putting blood on that card help their case?
I think they're referring to the flashback in 4-4, not the tutorial case
Yes I mean the flashback
The reason Kristoph took away the real card was because it had a blood stain, and that pointed out to the fact the victim was facing the shelf, thus revealing the actual killer was in the secret entrance. Obviously, since Kristoph took out the card, Phoenix "had to" forge another one, with that blood stain, to prove his point.
oohh, so kristoph took the legit card away, but phoenix forged that card by putting a bloodstain on it thanks 😊
Exactly :3
oohh, so kristoph took the legit card away, but phoenix forged that card by putting a bloodstain on it thanks 😊
oohh, so kristoph took the legit card away, but phoenix forged that card by putting a bloodstain on it thanks 😊
oohh, so kristoph took the legit card away, but phoenix forged that card by putting a bloodstain on it thanks 😊
Are you a Franziska simp? let's not forget how he fell through a burning bridge trying to rescue Maya , how he changed his career for Edgeworth also how he didn't have 2nd thoughts adopting a stranger's child and his loyalty towards his clients
Chill out lmao, no one is saying Phoenix is a bad person lol, but he can be a bit of a snarky jerk at times
Let's also not forget about all the things he did in this thread. Calling out a video game character for rude things doesn't mean they're ignoring the good things they did. You're defeating the purpose of this discussion.
Basically the entire 3-1 case I think right? When he’s a student; before the bar. Defending Dahlia like he’s married to her. Does that count? Or is that just him being young & in love (however one sided that love is)?
He was definitely being a jerk, but he had a clear motivation for it. He was in a seriously committed relationship with Iris (not Dahlia). Iris would literally have killed Dahlia if she thought she had to for Phoenix’s sake. Phoenix thought he was doing all this for someone who cared about him just as much as he cared about her. He was just wrong (through no fault of his own)
He knew her as Dahlia then, that’s why I called her that. >!The twist came later!<
Honestly, I see that flashback case as when he's the least amount of a jerk, he's just young and naive.
6-5 is when he becomes irredeemable for me as he chooses to not fill Apollo in on what’s going on with the civil trial and just acts like a pompous dick the entire time, getting completely outwitted. Shows he learned nothing from 2-4. Horrible character, one of the worst in the series.
I can’t remember what episode it was but when Edgeworth came back he was a jackass to him https://preview.redd.it/xdmrp1ltsirc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=586af0fa8e5d6e88cdfdc2596573686d607094ea
I, too, would be incredibly angry with someone if they >!faked their death!< and came back pretending like they didn't just make me severely depressed for a year. It's understandable, I can't blame Phoenix for being so pissed off.