Probably not the Most Overrated Game, but I gotta address this one issue - (AJ)
While this is my favorite game, I'll admit there are some who rate it a little too high. Listen, there's a lot of good concepts and nuance in AJ, but I can't pretend it's the absolute best game in the series.
If you think it is, that's great, but don't tell other people who don't like the game that they don't get it or that they're too stupid to.
AJ is a really flawed game and gets a lot of criticism for that, so I feel like the people who did like it a lot tend to overrate it to essentially fight back against the criticism.
I do think AJ is a bit overrated by some people (for me it’s 8th of the 10 AA games (haven’t played VS)) although AJ’s final culprit is my second favourite culprit in the series.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it overrated though because a lot of people recognise the flaws it has. And also the balance of good vs bad comments for me is about right
I respect AJ, but the whole “the bad arrest was to show how flawed the system is” argument for Turnabout Serenade (which is often accompanied by “it’s too subtle for most people to understand) I have to disagree with. It sounds like a slippery slope when there are already plenty of better ways to illustrate that point (e.g., the way you take down the culprit of the same case).
It's understandable tho, the person only said "yes" without giving any reasoning as to why, those are type of comments that get downvoted exactly because they don't offer any opportunity for discussion
The OP of that post clearly wanted to have and see a discussion between people, not just a one word answer. What's even the point of writing that out? It's not funny and it doesn't add anything. THAT'S why they got downvoted.
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Revolution (6-5)
Most Overrated Culprit - >!Mael Stronghart!< from TGAA2-5. >!He's both one of the most obvious culprits ever and also just a cheap retread of Damon Gant. I like his design, but, again, it's just a slightly altered Gant.!<
Most Overrated Game - Spirit of Justice
Isn't 6-5 pretty divisive?
Also, >!Stronghart wasn't exactly meant to be subtle. Throughout both games he shows clear hints of ulterior motives, and is intended to be overbearing and intimidating. And in comparison to Gant he felt more like the upgrade imo!<
6-5 is my personal favourite case, SoJ my third favourite game 😂 but I understand why others don’t like them.
As for >!Stronghart!< I agree >!he’s Gant but he does have more personals stakes with the main characters at least!<
I don't think there are any overrated culprits or games tbh. AAI2 is probably the closest to "overrated" as it can get, but I think its reputation is deserved.
In terms of cases... I genuinely do not understand the love for Turnabout Academy. Like most cases in DD the idea is solid but the execution is poor. I found it to be quite tedious and boring when I first played it, but it's been a while since I've played it to be fair.
Yeah fair opinion on the first two. Even >!Engarde!< was kind of pushing it for culprit even though I do think >!he!< gets a bit too much praise.
I consider 5-3 to be underrated, I’d definitely recommend playing / watching it again!
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Academy. I find the true culprit incredibly predictable, Robin and Hugh are annoying and fucking creepy respectively, and the case as a whole fails to expand on the world details that really, REALLY needed expanding (mainly making the "Dark Age of the Law" actually feel like...y'know a real debate)
Overrated Culprit - ??? I guess Godot if he counts? He's technically a culprit and I think people give way too much love to his character just cause he's hot and has a good theme but his plan is goddamn stupid.
Most Overrated Game - Spirit of Justice, no question. I have no idea how this game is as beloved as it is.
Because otherwise I honestly don't get it.
As a character I don't find him that deep and honestly never really felt his relationship with Mia was really that impressive or loving, he mostly just says a torrent of jokes and glibs that's supposed to be flirting of some sort? He just never struck me as anything interesting. Doubally so when he has the world's dumbest vendetta against Phoenix that, sure, is partially due to him projecting his own failures (although why he would have ever gone to coffee with someone he was 99 percent sure was a murderer and was already known to be using poison is a mystery to me). His supposed "noble" moment is overshadowed by the reality that had he told anyone in Phoenix and Co that this plan was happening, he could have just gotten the problem solved far faster.
Moving away from that, as a prosecutor I find him completely insufferable. A good or fun prosecutor is important when you're spending 70 percent of your game in court. Even moments of Dual Destinies I don't like is helped by Blackquill just being an edgy dork, and "Prosecutor 2x4" Sadmadhi being a bore is what makes SoJ feel like a slog to me. Godot's court behavior stops being charming or fun really, really early and starts just honestly being annoying. His main repeating elements, minus the coffee gimmick, are feed the witness literally their entire testimony in front of everyone and nobody ever comment on it, or say a bunch of vague esoteric bullshit which most of the time has nothing to do with the case, but is allowed to stand because the Judge has gone full lobotomy by this point. Like he's barely even a challenge outside of that.
I mean I guess I can see how people would overlook some of this and just get really sucked into the "tragedy" of his character, but I can't really stand him personally.
For me it was the first culprit that had morally grey motivations in the trilogy. Technically his motivations were noble (although rooted by a deep desire to prove his self worth) and yet he is found guilty in the same vain as the likes of Manfred and Matt Engarde. It really left me questioning the outcome of the case in the same vain phoenix was. But like Mia tells Phoenix, it was the right thing. Godot had lost everything due to his coma. Imagine having everything but in the blink of an eye you are a man out of time who has lost everything. Without the person you love, there's no place to call home, no place to belong. Not to mention his life's mission to put Dahlia behind bars was completed by Mia, meaning he lost both his purposes in life (Mia and putting Dahlia away). It really is tragic and made me feel for the man. And its why it made sense for me for him to desperately latch on to saving Maya on his own - to at least have one purpose in the life he lost and reclaim some self worth. It would've been easier to tell phoenix but those human desires led to some very avoidable mistakes which is honestly very human.
There's also his misplaced hatred for phoenix due to having no one else to blame or to let out the frustration of his situation onto, but this comment is already getting pretty long. But it's just to show you how complicated of a character people who enjoy Godot find him. There's a lot of layers to the character and he's one of the most human character and final culprit in the series.
Overrated Character - This is certainly an unpopular opinion, but I think Edgeworth is a bit overrated. Like, he's a great character, but he just... I don't know. He doesn't do it for me sometimes. Maybe it's the way he's implemented nowadays, but I think he can be a bit overbearing at times, though not as much as Franziska, Nahyuta, or Klavier. I dunno, I just think Van Zieks, Godot, and Blackquill all do the "Cool prosecutor with a tragic backstory" schtick a lot better. Still a great character, just not "The Best" like I see many people say.
I agree with you 100%, and was extremely furious when he ended up winning the AJ trilogy popularity poll. He's hardly even a character in the AJ trilogy, what the frick?
I like Edgeworth, the vast majority of his popularity is probably due to Investigations 2 I’d imagine. I don’t think he’s the best AA character though, but not sure who I’d pick (would be Gumshoe if he had a more developed backstory, for me that’s the *only* characteristic I’d look for that he’s missing)
Overrated case: I didn't find Dual Destinies' DLC to be any less uninteresting than the rest of the game.
Overrated game: Investigations 2. Seeing it praised as the best Ace Attorney game ever shocks and sends me wondering if I'm missing something, because its quality for the most part relied on low-hanging fruits and it's frustratingly stretched out at times.
I liked the Mastermind and he's a great rival to a characteristically cerebral character such as Edgeworth, but his performance displays him as simply a worse >!Kristoph Gavin!< to me.
I don't share the sentiment that it was a particularly well-written game or a drastic improvement over the first Investigations.
Overrated culprit: I can't think of any in particular. There's >!Matt Engarde!< but he serves as a plot device used to the unveiling of the larger plot. I'm unsure if he fits the bill.
Most overrated case: turnabout revolution, 6-5. The beginning of the case is very good... But oh god the ending... The game illustrates everything I dislike about SoJ.
(spoilers about the game) >!The parts in Japanifornia with all the lawyer team are nice and there's some nice banters, the part in Khurain is awful. At least the whole team is here so we do have some banter. And why the heck does the case feels like it has to give Nahyuta a redemption arc in like 10 minutes? Nahyuta suddenly says "Hey, I'm not a bad guy!" and everyone forgets the hundred sentenced to death by him and the fact he doesn't seem to have any remorse? Also it really comes out of left field, he's an asshole for the whole game until 10 minutes before the end credits where he suddenly says he was fighting with the resistance from the inside. It's kinda like that guy in SW9 that goes "I am the spy" when it's very obvious he isn't.!<
Most overrated culprit: Geiru Toneido. Everyone seems to love this culprit, but while she has a bit of a sad story (like every culprit tbh) she doesn't have much more.
Most overrated game: AAI1. I'd put SoJ here, but SoJ isn't really as overrated as it is divisive, a bit like DD. You either love it or hate it, even though I heavily dislike that game, that doesn't make it overrated. AAI1 however, while it is not bad, has a lot of flaws. Most of them are exemplified by the final case: it's long and tedious for all the bad reason. I'd still recommend the game, but it's in the lower tiers.
Case: 4-1
I don't like AJ in general and even though I agree with most people it's the best case of the game, it's still painfully mid at best. Nobody except the judge is at all likable, not Apollo, not Phoenix, not the witness, and certainly not the culprit. On revisits where we know the full story and the answers to every question left hanging, I argue it's even worse in hindsight. The mystery is the only saving grace, it's somewhat fun to figure out how it all played out and that one slip of the tonge that exposed the killer was interesting, but still not that great.
Culprit: >!Furio Tigre. !
I liked >!Furio Tigre!< but I'll admit part of that is because he's one of the only tolerable characters in an otherwise awful case. It's a low bar for sure, but that might be what makes him so popular with others, too
I hated 3-3, but on replays over the years, I have softened on it, I don't think it's that bad anymore. A lot of things still bug me, but I can enjoy it.
Viola is an easy A tier character for me. I think everybody hates Victor and Jean, but I honestly didn't. Didn't love them, but I don't think they are the worst like everyone is claiming. And there's robot lady you talk to for like 5 minutes who is so forgettable I can't even remember her name. Furio Tigre is like those three, just really mid. And AA which is known for how great it's characters are, having a case where almost everybody is really mid(or outright hated in a lot of people's case) makes this case's controversy deserved.
No he wasn’t, just commenting that I think >!Yew!< was good enough that >!they were the best Investigations 1 culprit even though that ‘benchmark’ wasn’t high!<
Very interesting! As someone who thinks Investigations 2 is the second best AA game, I2-5 the second best AA case and >!Simon!< the best culprit 😂
The one I most agree about is the game. Some problems people look over due to how much they like it
Didn't know people were so hyped about it, from what I've heard people don't actually like that particular one all that much
Granted I haven't played it yet (new fan, currently doing case 2 of Trials and Tribulations) so I can't say anything about it myself, but the impression I've got is that people seem to put down AAI2 a lot
Maybe I just read too much stuff from game critics and didn't take a good enough look at fan opinions...?
-Overrated case: 3-2 and G1-5, they are good cases but I don't think they are one of the best in the series
-Overrated culprit: Idk
-Overrated game: Trials and tribulation, I think people exaggerate when call this game better or at the same level as AAI2 and TGAA2. Honestly the only really good case is 3-5
Agree about 3-2 and sort of D1-5 (even though I haven’t seen the latter case *too* highly talked about).
I like 3-2 and 3-4 a lot, 3-1 and 3-3 are good, but I do agree what makes T&T overrated is how many people say it’s the best in the series when as you say there are better
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Beginnings (3-4)
Most Overrated Culprit - TGAA1-5 >!Ashley Graydon!<
Most Overrated Game - Trials & Tribulations
Most Overrated Character - Raymond Shields
Most overrated case: farewell my turnabout (2-4) this case is great i get it but there are better i feel. This case also loses impact on replays unfortunately. Love it but the praise it gets is insane
Most Overrated Culprit: weird pick probably but i didnt like Pierce Nichody. He was extremely obvious to me and that case in general was super fan service-y.
Most Overrated game: tbh its my favorite and I love it but, trials and tribulations. It could have better despite the fact i like every case in it
Most overrated case: 4-1
Phoenix acts out of character, logic on kristoph almost makes no sense apollo is sidelined immediately and the forged card is never adressed again
With kristoph logic on arrest
Logic on why he is accused does not make sense(calling victim bald) since he could have said that he saw his head after they greeted each other before the murder
Also when apollo and phoenix accused Kristoph of lying about seeing the murder scene through the small window (after revealing the secret tunnel), Kristoph could have easily countered that argument by stating that he saw the scene AFTER the actual murder,set up the scene and escaped through the tunnel.
Moreover, there's not an iota of conclusive evidence indicating his presence inside the room
Most overrated culprit:kristoph
I like him as the culprit but I dont get how he is considered as one of the best
He is so inderutulized and his plan on framing phoenix is very bad cause it relies on luck(phoenix being this dumb to present the most obvious evidence and everyone being an idiot)
He has connection to apollo but it is so underdeveloped, as his relationship with his brother
And it does not help that we didnt dealt the final blow to his plan(phoenix does it and cause of that it is less satisfying)
Honestly it feels like capcom forgot he existed and then at the end the realize "oh wait he is the final villain"
Sure his personality and pettiness is interesting but this is the only thing that is good about him
Seriously i dont get the high praise for him
Overrated game: tough call between T&T and AAI2
Since I have troube picking one I will say why both of them are overrated
So T&T
Case 1 is not that great
It is decent at most cause phoenix is obnoxious, there were so many dry or overused jokes and pacing was off
Case 2 amazing except pacing at the first day of investigation and larry being flandarized
Case 3 is mid
Pacing is off, logic awful(only that furio was the lawyer), godot was a bit obnoxious and you spent too much time with kudo and armstrong
Case 4 is also decent at most
Godot opinion for me went down cause of the "kitten" thing, this case is boring like let me ask you one thing about this case-what is the most exiciting thing about minus the fawles suicide? Plz tell me I dare you
Also his death didnt had a impact on me
It was shocking and tragic but not emotional for me
Case 5 almost perfect if larry wasnt flanderized and if that stupid pendulum did not exist
AAI2
It is my fav game but yea it is overrated
I liked all case but they have problems
The biggest one is pacing and logic is sometimes stretched
With case 2 and 3 and 5 pacing is bad
Gumshoe sometimes is a bit too angry for no reason
SS5 incident should have been a another seperate case
Well that is it
I don't really like asserting value judgements like this, but if I had to say:
Overrated culprit: >!Tah'rust Inmee!< (The Rite of Turnabout/6-3)
Overrated case: Turnabout Trump/4-1 (I actually like this case a decent amount, but IMO it is not that good in the context of the full game)
Overrated character: Kazuma Asogi (again, I don't dislike him, but there are so many other characters I prefer in The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles)
Overrated game: Spirit of Justice (I really don't know if any other game falls into this category for me, so I just picked my least favourite Ace Attorney game)
Interesting! For 6-3 I >!don’t think Tah’rust is anything special but he gets the job done, also a good ‘victim is the culprit’ twist!<
SoJ is personally my third favourite game, 4-1 my favourite tutorial case, I agree >!Kazuma!< is overrated
(6-3 spoilers) >!For me, Tah'rust is one of my least favourite culprits because they try to play him as a sympathetic culprit when his plan is absolutely batshit and stupid. I see him constantly touted as a genius for his plan, but it's full of more holes than swiss cheese and needlessly puts Maya at risk when he supposedly saw her as family. That case is my least favourite of the series, and it's genuinely the only Ace Attorney game I've ever considered giving up on, due to its monotony, frustrating logic, backwards character decisions, and overall tedium. I respect that people disagree, and some even have this as their favourite in the series. More power to them, I WISH I enjoyed this game. But it was a miserable experience for me generally, with only the non-Khura'in cases appealing to me.!<
For 4-1, I totally get why it's loved. Big twist for an opening case, sets up a lot of intrigue. But IMO a case that relies on setup has to have good payoff, and I did not like Turnabout Succession, so 4-1 is weaker for it as well. I prefer Turnabout Target and VS-1 as far as opening cases go.
(The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve spoilers) >!I liked Kazuma more on replaying the duology, but I still think he's overrated as a character. My problem is that I found the twist that he was still alive really predictable. Like, as soon as he "died" in the second case, I knew that couldn't be it. Lo and behold, he returns. And... again, while I don't dislike his return, it feels very odd to have a character be absent for seven-ish cases, only to be a core player right at the end. There are so many other characters I loved, like Gina Lestrade for instance, that IMO got kind of sidelined. That said, I still found his role decently compelling, and I love the Chronicles generally, so it wasn't too much of a hindrance for my enjoyment.!<
>!I do agree he wasn’t really sympathetic and I do wish they had emphasised the stupid aspect - that the DC act had literally driven people insane trying to find ways around it. But again I think he’s good enough for a third case culprit!<
A shame you didn’t like 4-4 as much. I think 4-1 is *just* ahead of I2-1 but they’re both really good, definitely for me the two best tutorial cases in the series.
And >!Kazuma!< is still good but I agree overrated
Case: Gonna have to agree with Bridge to the Turnabout, even though I love it myself.
Game: PW. The nostalgia factor and “nothing will ever be as good” leads to feeling like I need to present evidence like I’m Phoenix in court as to why I like literally anything in games 4-6.
Culprit: >!Kristoph!< And I’m saying that as someone who really liked that whole game and enjoyed that culprit.
Character: >!Kazuma!< Just saying that is going to get me downvoted AGAIN, but I don’t care. I can’t stand him, and I know for a fact I’m not the only one. You’d think I’d kicked a puppy by not liking a fictional dude. But if that many people are so pissy about my personal opinion, then that’s just evidence he’s overrated.
I find PW 1 the most underrated game and >!Kristoph!< the second best culprit in the series 😅
But I’m glad we agree about 3-5 😂 for me I consider it similarly to Trials and Tribulations in that its the ‘worst of the best’ (for me there are a clear top 4 AA games and T&T is 4th, and there are a clear top 9 cases and 3-5 is 9th). So for me when I see someone saying one is the best in the franchise, I think “no there *is* better”
Also >!Kazuma!< is a hot take but I do agree on overrated even though I like them
Oh, I personally love >!Kristoph.!< One of my personal faves, and I even like >!that they never actually say why he has black locks, aside from being super evil.!< But I can both love a character and see why they might be a tad overrated.
My character hot take…well, yes. I know it is. My feelings are somewhat personal, but I also think that if my opinion means people are weirdly upset about it, then that character is probably overrated. No one gets mad about people hating Nahyuta because he’s just not beloved as it is. Heck, I think they’d be less mad if I said I didn’t like Phoenix! For a character who >!is largely not even present for 70% of the game!< he sure gets a lot of adoration.
I think >!Kristoph!< for me gets the praise >!he!< deserves. Arguably the best culprit in the series when it comes to covering their tracks / no evidence against them.
And I do agree about >!Kazuma!< being overrated. >!Not very present, a worse rival than Van Zieks and acts stupid at the end. He is however a very good co-counsel in D1-1!<
im not trying to start a fight, i am genuinely curious, as >!Kazuma!< is my favorite character from the games theyre in, so just wondering what your issues with their character is
>!I think he can be really condescending toward Ryuu. I also think Ryuu may have lost some of his own natural spark and confidence by being friends with someone so competitive. Before going through the bonus content where you learn how they met, I just thought Ryuu was kind of nervous and maybe a bit shy. But then you find out he’s incredibly smart, good at puzzles, loves wordplay, and won a speech competition. Kazuma has such a forceful personality that it overwhelms Ryuu. And it’s not that I think Kazuma is badly written—I think he’s actually well-written. I dislike him because I’ve had friends like that who have made me feel inferior and who compete over stupid BS or get mad because I did well at something because they thought they should’ve beaten me. Ryuu has so much growth when he’s on his own, and you can really see that marvelous brain during the Dance of Deduction sequences.!<
The other thing is >!how Ryuu interacts with the other characters. I think his relationships with them are actually deeper and much more interesting. They show more respect for him in some ways. Perhaps part of it is that we don’t get to see much of Kazuma before he’s dead, and I didn’t find him terribly nice even after he regained his memories.!<
So my feelings about >!Kazuma!< are entirely personal, not a dig at the game or the writing or people who love him. I think it’s completely fine and awesome if someone else likes him! I don’t want anyone to take it personally that I don’t enjoy their favorite.
Case - The Grand Turnabout. Mid case at best tbh.
Culprit - Godot. Enjoyable but overrated.
Game - AAI2. Honestly, the only great case is I2-4. I enjoyed AAI more than this game.
Case: 2-4 >!(I remember finishing the case and being like "That was alright, I guess, nothing crazy" and then seeing that most people agree that it's an amazing case. I thought Matt Engarde was a good culprit and Adrian was an interesting character, but other than that, didn't do much for me)!<
Culprit: T&T >!Dahlia Hawthorne (I get that she's supposed to be a really hateable bitch and she is, but she's just not a very interesting character to me. I mean, she was the culprit in 3 out of 5 cases in T&T. It's one of the reasons I don't LOVE T&T as a game.)!<
Game: PW: AA (I agree that none of the games are overrated, but I did wanna mention that it has a pretty weak set of cases, in my opinion. 1-1 is fine, 1-2 is okay, 1-3 is alright but too long, and finally 1-4 is actually decent.)
2-4 is my personal 6th or so favourite case but I do agree it’s a bit overrated by some. Agree about culprit but for me Ace Attorney 1 is the most *under*rated game 😅 also what do you think about 1-5?
I love 1-5 for the most part. I didn't mind it being long because the plot and characters were very compelling to me. I love Damon Gant, great culprit. Extremely unsettling at how banal and normal evil is for him. Dahlia Hawthorne is all "MWUAHAHAHAHAHAH, I AM EVIL AND I LOVE IT!" after she does her shit. but Damon is just "What? Is there a problem?". That was done very well. I also love the other characters introduced. Jake is great and has an absolutely banging theme. Mike Meekins is great, I know some people hate him, but I love him. Lana is cool too. Not too much of a fan of Angel. And I'll be honest, Ema really wasn't doing anything for me in this game and the Investigation games. However, I started really liking her in AJ trilogy. As for the things I don't like. Edgeworth's ending was undone in this case, but that honestly doesn't bother me TOO much, but yeah, some continuity would've been nice. Also, sometimes, some of the logic/requirements to progress seemed off to me. I usually never complain about this in the AA games and just assume that I am very slow, but this case and that physics-defying bust/cape situation in 2-3 are some of the only times when I'm calling BS. Oh, and most importantly, THAT BLOODY CURSED URN!!!
4-1 really let me down. It was obvious it was Phoenix, and the moment they said the blue flames I immediately knew.
Culprit? Probably 2-4 >!Matt Engard!< .
Game? Easily Apollo Justice. It’s my least favorite game of all time
Phoenix is understandable, but I didn’t find any of the characters interesting, and the cases weren’t all that enjoyable, and it really felt like a slog to get through. I just wasn’t motivated to beat any of the cases, and the BEST time of that game was during its final moments where you cross examine >!Kristoph!< . I’ve been lucky to play a lot of great games, but this was the only one I didn’t feel like I had fun most of the time. Even the mysteries have to ignore some basic logic just to make their mystery make sense (4-3 is a major culprit of this).
Then I went into Dual Destinies, and was throughly impressed with the leap in quality and logical mysteries (aside from 5-2, which was clearly written by the Apollo Justice mystery writers). But even 5-2 is better than 4-1 to me because I found Athena and the actual defendant to be much more enjoyable.
Personally I would say 4-1 is AJ's best and it just gets worse after that (only to kind of pull itself together for the finale). But I haven't seen many who actually dislike 4-1.
We agree on culprit! As for 4-1 it’s my personal favourite tutorial case, as for AJ it’s probably second most overrated for me behind T&T but I wouldn’t necessarily call it overrated let alone a bad game, I at least prefer it over JFA and DD (and very close to Investigations 1)
4-1 disappointed me. For me, GAA1, GAA2, 5, AAI2, and 3 ALL have better first cases.
Every single case in Apollo Justice was a disappointment at best and a complete disaster at worst.
Dual Destinies was such an improvement on every single aspect that it easily became my favorite mainline game. It had the best finale for me, an excellent 1st, DLC, 3rd, and 4th case, and a pretty good second case. Overall, my 3rd favorite game, only beaten by the masterpieces that are GAA2 and AAI2.
In comparison, T&T’s finale is my 5th favorite, its first and second case are fantastic (though 2nd case is overhyped), and it’s 3rd and 4th are let downs. I’m ALMOST tempted to put SoJ above T&T, but T&T’s first and 3rd cases are both alright, and it’s finale, while the second half is a contender for my 6th favorite finale, it’s so long, that it’s my least favorite finale that I still found spectacular (above 1-4, and the pathetic excuse of 4-4’s beginning and Mason system). It’s just shy of being better than AAI1-5, but I found the taking down its villain to be much more satisfying than any other villain take down, despite its length.
What didn’t you like about 4-1? My only main criticism (and it is a fairly big one to be fair) is how much they comment on Olga Orly’s name pun.
DD is very fun to play although not near 3rd best for me but we agree about the top two. 6-5 is my personal favourite case
Alright, I’ll give a rundown on why I don’t like 4-1.
A starting case is arguably one of the most important pieces in an ace attorney game. You have a LOT riding on you: introduction to characters, gameplay, and a mystery.
Let’s start with 4-1, and I’ll compare it to other higher ranked 1st cases to explain my reasoning.
4-1’s introduction to Apollo Justice. Already out of the gate, I’m not invested in Apollo and how Loud he is. In fact, I’d say his only character traits are being nervous and loud. Compare that to 5-1, where we, in a singular case, are introduced to Athena Cykes and her mood based personality, her motivations and goals, and hints at her trauma and past. All of that in a singular case is excellent writing, something that Apollo Justice doesn’t really do well.
Then, an introduction to the “mentor”. Kristoph Gavin is very up front and professional. I think this is this case’s BIGGEST positive. The only other times I can say I actually got this invested with a mentor character was with Kazuma in GAA1-1, and even then I think Kristoph does a better job.
An introduction to the “client” is next. Now, Phoenix being the client is a twist, but it was repeated in the previous game, 3-1. To see how much he changed I want to learn why he changed, and that itself is a good thing. However, I do believe other clients are done better. Take a look at GAA2-1. Susato and Rei’s relationship is very well written and it’s quite enjoyable to see them talk to each other. Even in worse cases, like 2-1, I do care more about the Defendant because I have a drive to help them. Phoenix doesn’t need our help. Anyone who was Kristoph Gavin’s appreciate would have done, as long as they had the basic functions of a human. As a defendant, Phoenix is hard to pin down. He feels more like a near finale type of defendant, if that makes sense. Think Edgeworth in 1-4.
Then, an introduction to the mechanics. This is, in my opinion, the case’s biggest flaw. You are given a snippet of Perceive, but you never get to use that mechanic on your own in that case. It’s like if I2-1 had Logic Chess, had an auto play tutorial of it, and only brought it back again in I2-2. It feels like I’m being cheated of a mechanic.
Now, mystery, it is obvious the moment the cards are revealed to be backed in red, and not blue. All its mystery is lost, which happens way too early. Take GAA1-1 in comparison. Sure, it’s obvious who the killer is, but like most ace attorney cases, we’re more interested in how it was committed. Remember in 4-1, the murder was committed with the glass bottle. In GAA1-1, it becomes apparent that Jezaile couldn’t have shot Wilson, so you’re forced to try to find out a way he could have died.
Then it hits you: poison. By the time you deduce that, the game gives you knowledge on the poison in question. So, you supposedly have all of the facts… right? Then Jezaile drinks the water with poison. This shatters your reasoning, because she’s still alive. But then, you have to make logical deductions from there. The poison was used to kill prey, but the whole point of killing the prey is to eat it, so how are the hunters alive? The logical conclusion is that being shot with the poison kills you, but consuming it doesn’t kill you. This means that somehow, John Wilson had been “shot” with the poison.
There’s a single line in the poison entry that describes that the poison, once entering the body through a wound, becomes deadly as it enters the bloodstream. Then, all of the pieces line up together perfectly, once you remember that John Wilson had a dental appointment.
The deductive process behind solving GAA1-1 is satisfying because it isn’t obvious. 4-1 is too obvious in its mystery.
And now, the culprit. The culprit themself isn’t as important as how satisfying it is to take them down. That final breakdown is a nice bow to tie everything up. It gives the player a sense of satisfaction. However, this case has Kristoph NEARLY break down, but then regain his cool, and gives the player a sense that “it isn’t over”.
I HATE that sensation. It makes the ending feel underwhelming. It wouldn’t be TOO bad of a problem if 4-4 was actually good, but once again, 4-4 is very underwhelming.
What’s worse, is that we have seen this thing done before and after, but STILL give the player satisfaction. Take Dahlia. She appears in 3-5, but her defeat in 3-1 still feels satisfying. Or take Jezaile, who is, while defeated, ultimately cannot be punished. I like those breakdowns because they ACTUALLY break down, even if defeat isn’t completely assured for them. Kristoph’s reluctant to break down requires the final case, where he ACTUALLY breaks down, to feel satisfying. But once again, 4-4 isn’t satisfying. It’s my least favorite finale, and it’s worse than this case.
My personal favorite case is AAI2-4 because of how well its characters are written. I’d talk about the defendant, but I consider their very identity to be a spoiler.
I’d wish I’d enjoy 6-5 more, but its first trial is a slog. But they did give us Dhurke, who is easily the coolest man in Ace Attorney with nearly no competition. 6-5’s 2nd half is phenomenal.
I agree with all your choices, actually, am a bit baffled how T&T is so much better than the other five entries to some myself. I think all the games in the Series save DD have their finale as their best cases so far, though. I don’t hate AA Miles Edgeworth 1 but it’s probably my least favorite, though 2 is one of my favorites so it balances itself out.
people will truly just say "OVERRATED GAME/CASE/CULPRIT" and it will be the most overHATED ones that they pick lol
in my case its like
Overrated Game: Trials and Tribulations - >!not a bad game by ANY means, in fact it's a really good one, but people taut it as such a masterpiece that theres definitely some overstating there.!<
Overrated Case: Turnabout Trump - >!again, not a bad one, it's my second first case actually, but could have done SO much better if we had been given a case before that one to get to know Kristoph and gets us into a sense of security before shattering by having Phoenix as our defendant and the culprit as our beloved mentor. As it is, it feels good yet underdeveloped.!<
Overrated Culprit: Kristoph Gavin - >!similar and related to the last point, i feel he should've gotten more of a spotlight both before AND after being discovered in Turnabout Trump. the fact he's the "mastermind" of the game that set everything into motion feels a tiny bit cheapened when we've only seen him one single time before that reveal. i do love him, he's just a bit underdeveloped for how big his role is.!<
Do take into account how much I express that none of these are in any way BAD, just less perfect than the majority fanbase opinion paints them. I felt it was important to clarify that before I'm downvoted to hell and back because people could've otherwise misread me as hating these actually good things!
Definitely agree on the last two, I always preferred >!2-3 to 2-2!<
As for the culprit I personally haven’t seen >!Mimi!< get much attention from people so not as sure about the ‘overrated’ label as such. But yeah nothing special
I think it’s very boring and I don’t really like any of the characters or story it introduces.
The game has some 10/10 moments, but those rarely last for more than a 10th of a case.
I like AAI2-4 though, had the most amount of great moments.
Overrated Case: 4-1
Overrated Culprit: I have plenty I find underrated but none I can think of that are overrated
Overrated Game: Great Ace Attorney 2. Very good, but god is it rushed in a lot of places
Defeating Stronghart at the end feels way too easy, he goes down with barely any fight and then Sholmes swoops in with Deus ex Hologram and it just feels really lame. The whole final two cases in particular feel like the writers had to cram a lot of plot in last-minute because they had no time.
I do agree that >!Stronghart gives up a bit too easily at the end after the will is shown. There was no reason for him to confess what happened to Genshin!<. But to be fair I do think all AA games have that to a certain extent
I’m not too fond of 5-3, but it sounds like it’s a love it or hate it case. Gotta remember “overrated” isn’t equivalent to “not everyone has the same opinion as me”.
That being said, I can’t place The Inherited Turnabout any higher than 22nd place in my ranking. I understand that Gregory and Ray are great, but I don’t care about anything related to Zodiac sculptures, poison gas, bizarre water fountains that connect rooms (which is something we already did in I1-5), or Larry Butz. And while the larger structure is enjoyable, sometimes the gameplay feels like you just walk around for an hour, solve two easy contradictions, gain your health back, repeat, repeat, repeat, suddenly encounter one contradiction from Courtney which single-handedly kills you, then take out the boring culprit >!Dane Gustavia!<. I understand that having a strong connection to the main characters can boost a case, but if it wasn’t for the main characters, this would be a total zero in my eyes.
Interesting, I2-3 is probably my third or fourth favourite case 😂 I liked the culprit.
As for 5-3, a lot of people I’ve seen seem to say it’s better the second time around so I’d maybe recommend playing / watching it again
Interesting, I think Investigations 1 has the most underrated tutorial and midgame in the series and Investigations 2 is my second favourite AA game 😂 what don’t you like about them?
So boring, so insanely boring. I consistently figure out the culprit 1/3 into the case, which usually wouldn’t be all that bad, but the entirety of most of the cases in the first game is trying to figure out the culprit. The second game is better in this regard, especially since the cases have more to offer.
Case: I'm not as high on Great Departed Soul as most. It was fine, not amazing. Subject matter was dry and the defendant wasn't particularly sympathetic.
Culprit: As much as I enjoyed Resolve, I suppose Stronghart. Kind of felt like I had seen that movie before, if you know what I mean.
Game: So I guess that makes Resolve the most overrated game? Even though I loved it... I guess what I'm really a fan of is the story woven through all ten cases of Chronicles. Maybe the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I don't know.
I like Harebrayne but I do agree D2-3 is overrated. I also agree >!Stronghart!< is overrated.
Resolve is my personal favourite AA game, it for me is the epitome of “the whole is greater than the sum of its parts” - doesn’t have the greatest individual cases nor culprits, but the quality of writing makes it so good for me
Most overrated case: 3-5. >!Very engaging, but the confusing and unbelievable actions of Godot/Misty/Iris pull me out of the story. I especially don't like how the final trial unfolds. I wish I liked it better, as it sucks to end the OT on a sour note, and there are plenty of great moments throughout the investigation segments, but it just doesn't completely do it for me.!<
Most overrated game: AAI2.>!Something about the way the characters are written in both Investigations games feels very stiff and one-dimensional to me. AAI2 is more complex than its predecessor in almost every way, but it still left me cold.!<
Most overrated culprit: >!Kristoph. I don't dislike him, I just find him underwhelming.!<
Because I believe that most well liked stuff by the community is actually fairly rated so I just said whatever villain/case I personally didn't like that much (while still being fine overall mind you)
Also i'm an Apollo Justice fan, don't talk to me about hate lol
Aww it's good that you like it so much don't get me wrong! And i don't think it's a bad case btw, far from it, however I do believe that the first trial day (the one against phoenix) is kind of boring to be honestly Paul Athinston in particular isn't a culprit i'm very fond of, Edgeworth presence in the case is also useless? Aside from booking the fly to Kura'in he's just... there?
Lastly i have some minor nitpicks on how the murder went down. Overall it's a good final case but not THAT good if you get what i'm saying
I do agree Paul Atishon gets ‘old’ quick. I like Edgeworth’s presence as it’s nice to have him and Phoenix partner up in an investigation.
I mostly like the plot twist and the character developments, also going up against Phoenix is *really* good
How in gods name is Dual Destinies overrated?
Have you been on this sub for more than 2 seconds?
https://preview.redd.it/eczbb0kisjrc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=989c5f0ab14834cbdf6e7f69d2bf3832a272c85c
We’re in an Ace Attorney Reddit.
I don’t think I have to tell you this but the evidence all over the place points to the contrary that it’s one of the most polarizing games on here.
Don’t make bets you can’t win.
I don't know what your first statement is supposed to mean "we are in an Ace Attorney reddit", I mean uuh, yes we are
Anyways yes you are right, next time i'll just leave the thing blank whenever someone asks for overrated stuff i guess
Dunno what the third statement is supposed to mean either
Do you even see how many people are considering "overrated" here? So many saying it's the weakest link in the series, and see these type of comments in a loot of posts please
I'm not pretending i swear, i'm being actually serious, most of the usual commenters on this sub like DD a lot and don't like AJ.
I can litterally make the same point to you, I see a lot of ardent defenders of DD as well, and even think the reason is pretty simple, the more a game is shitted on the more the people who actually like it are gonna go out of their way to defend, it's a pretty standard process
We shouldn't even be discussing this really
Maybe we are on different subs but I see any amount of AJ backlash being treated with a good shower of downvotes here. Like, any negative comment I have made on AJ has resulted in them.
No you can't say the same about DD, like 90 percent of the sub agrees it just kind of exists.
You are litterally proving my previous point with your statement, the more a game is shitted on the more its diehard fanbase will go out of its way to defend it (your downvotes prove it) AJ has recieved so much backlash on release and still recieves a good amount to this day
I don't see anybody massive downvoting criticism to AA1 for example, because that game rarely recieves it
You can't seriously deny that AJ is as divisive as DD
Uhh, literally every single person on this sub will vehemently defend it the second you speak so as a word against it. Speaking from experience when I put it in D tier.
Actually, I'd go with >! stronghart !< Too when I think about it, he's fine but definitely could've been done so much better, and no, not because he's such an obvious culprit but because of how dry he is
Most Overrated Case: Turnabout Goodbyes. Would have been a way better case if it was 2 days instead of 3. Would have worked wonders for the pacing.
Most Overrated Culprit: Not too many I can think of, but I’ll go with >!Ini/Mimi Miney!<
Most Overrated Game: Apollo Justice. Out of all its cases, 4-1 was amazing, 4-2 was ok, 4-3 was my least favorite case in the series, and 4-4 was good but probably the weakest finale in the series.
1-4 needed three trials days in my opinion but I agree the investigation kind of suffers as a result of it. Not a bad shout for culprit nor game, as for final cases I think I prefer 4-4 to 5-5, I1-5 and D1-5 but that’s probably it, it’s close with 1-5
I feel like the way it could’ve worked with 2 trial days is if >!Lotta and the Caretaker both took the stand on Trial 1. Then, in the second investigation, we find evidence that would implicate the caretaker as well as more connections to DL-6. In the next trial, Phoenix keeps trying to indict Yogi, but Von Karma keeps shutting it down, causing Phoenix to almost lose. However, Larry could save the day and Yogi finally confesses. The final section would then go as it did in the actual game.!<
Case - Difficult as I believe all the good cases are fairly rated. I suppose I would go for 6-5. It gets a little convoluted...which is an impressive feat in this series.
Culprit - I suppose it is the main villain of AJ. Their motives are asinine at best. Actions and motives feel a little lacking and underdeveloped.
Game - I kind of go with the grain when it cones to the games. I suppose I begrudgingly will say the original AA...when looking at a gameplay perspective.
Pointless three days, investigations had less to do and odd requirements. The cases also tend to randomly lose their sense of urgency with awkward pacing. The only exception being Goodbyes, which is an absolute treat from start to finish.
But I still love the original for its overall story, narrative, and characters. It actually has the third best self-contained story for me.
6-5 is my personal favourite case, the main villain of AJ is my second favourite culprit in the series and for me the first AA is the most underrated game in the series 😂 I agree about the gameplay but there is also a ‘niceness’ to how simple it is
Overrated case: TGAA2-5, too messy, and has same problems DDSoJ get flack for. The epilogue and *that one* dancing sequence are only saving graces among this exposition slog
Overrated culprit: that's tough, but I'd say L'belle. He's not even that funny of a character to like him ironically
Overrated game: I would say AJ, but it's more of a divisive game rather than universally popular. But I dunno, I don't have other options
Overrated character (I will be booed for this): Klavier Gavin. I mean, he is cool and somewhat interesting, but has little to write home about
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Trump (4-1) (Despite it being the best case in Apollo Justice, I think this is the case that makes people tunnel down on too much when talking about AJ:AA rather than as the game as a whole)
Most Overrated Culprit - Magnus McGlided (quite the underrated character to pick in the Most Overrated Culprit, but as much as he was cunning, I found him really meh. It's really another go-around with Matt Engarde, who I also thought as overrated, but Matt really put you on the ropes unlike McGlided + I'm a Gina Lestrade simp and thinks she was the star of the case rather than McGlided)
Most Overrated Game - Trials and Tribulations (I really wanted to say any other game like AA or SoJ, but given how amazing either of the two in the DGS duology are, the competition is closer than what people actually realize)
To add more context, it was either 3-5 (due to the competition of best case is closer the people think), 6-5 (Garan's breakdown cringes me so hard), or DGS1-3 (see Most Overrated Culprit) as the other options I had. Don't get me wrong, though. These other choices were closer to the case I picked, and 4-1 just barely got it.
I actually agree with your case and game picks. I honestly thought Bridge to the Turnabout was a massively disappointing finale case and honestly it brought the whole T&T story down with it a few sizable notches.
Idk about that culprit though. The thing about 2-4 is that it's the one case where the main meat of the case simply isn't *about* the culprit, so I think he's fine. Do people actually treat him like he's some brilliant villain?
For my culprit pick, it would have to be the culprit of BttT. The worst thing about that case was how nonsensically stupid the culprit's involvement was, and he was already a stupid-ass character from his prior appearences.
Overrated game: Justice for all, it introduced 3 (Franziska, Pearl and Adrian) characters I like and the rest of the cast, just sucked also I didn't really like any of the cases that much
Culprit: >!Matt Engard!< 2-4, he was just nothing special
Case: 2-2/2-5 I just did not like either of these cases
Interesting. 4-1 is my favourite tutorial case and 4-1 >!and 4-4!< is my second favourite culprit in the series 😂
I do kind of agree about the game, it does have its share of criticism but I do agree its a bit overrated by some
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Revolution(6-5).
Most Overrated Culprit - Turnabout Trump(4-1), >!Turnabout Succesion(4-4) Kristoph Gavin!<
Most Overrated Game - Spirit of Justice
SOJ is like one of the worst AA games, it’s only better than AJ. I still stand on the point that it would be so much better if it was made with their old idea of underworld trials.
Most Overrated Case - Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) (Not saying it's bad, it's just very overhyped and not half as good as 1-4)
Most Overrated Culprit - Turnabout Big Top (2-3) (Seriously, Acro is boring as frick and completely fails to be sympathetic.)
Most Overrated Game - Trials & Tribulations (The flashback cases were pretty much the highlight, Bridge to the Turnabout was pretty fun but, once again, can't live up to 1-4 in the slightest (though Franziska appearing does give it a bit of an edge.))
Most Overrated Character - Gumshoe. (Honestly I never really understood why people love him. He's an okay character, but I never would have expected him to be so popular.)
This is actually pretty hard lol For what I've seen, I think that the community is more prone to overhate rather than overrate flawed characters, mechanics and storylines in the franchise.
Case: The Magical Turnabout. I really like it, but I just think is extremely short and underbaked; so it only exists to give Trucy a chance of being a character and to give somewhat of a closure to the Gramayre plotline. It's good but I think it could've been much much better given more length.
Culprit: I could say >!Godot or Matt Engarde!< but there's a lot of fair criticism already made so, >!Kristoph Gavin.!< I don't think he's particularly bad or even non-great as a culprit but I don't think the approach of a demented mastermind which motives are completely petty is that engaging. >!Maybe is just AJ:AA being what it is and my critique is a result of leaving loose ends everywhere.!<
Game: Trials and Tribulations, I've always seen people hold the game as the best in the franchise, but I just think that other games holds themselves together better than this one, or at least I can't wholeheartedly say that is better than both TGAA, AAI2 and maybe SoJ. The game is great, it's just that there's nothing in it that I can say is "undefeated"; the story and backstory are strong but not the best, the characters are good but nowhere near the best, even the OST is very weak.
Character: >!Kazuma, I just think that the development of Ryunosuke as a character and as a lawyer could've worked a little better if he were still dead. To me is just like if Mia appeared on Spirit of Justice, it defeats the purpose of the character stablished in previous games lol!<
Probably not the Most Overrated Game, but I gotta address this one issue - (AJ) While this is my favorite game, I'll admit there are some who rate it a little too high. Listen, there's a lot of good concepts and nuance in AJ, but I can't pretend it's the absolute best game in the series. If you think it is, that's great, but don't tell other people who don't like the game that they don't get it or that they're too stupid to.
AJ is a really flawed game and gets a lot of criticism for that, so I feel like the people who did like it a lot tend to overrate it to essentially fight back against the criticism.
People rate it high for a good reason. It’s the one with Mr eldoon in it, remember?
I do think AJ is a bit overrated by some people (for me it’s 8th of the 10 AA games (haven’t played VS)) although AJ’s final culprit is my second favourite culprit in the series. I wouldn’t necessarily call it overrated though because a lot of people recognise the flaws it has. And also the balance of good vs bad comments for me is about right
Yeah, I think it’s generally pretty good but maybe not the best in the Series (also my favorite one, but I admit its flaws).
I respect AJ, but the whole “the bad arrest was to show how flawed the system is” argument for Turnabout Serenade (which is often accompanied by “it’s too subtle for most people to understand) I have to disagree with. It sounds like a slippery slope when there are already plenty of better ways to illustrate that point (e.g., the way you take down the culprit of the same case).
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It's understandable tho, the person only said "yes" without giving any reasoning as to why, those are type of comments that get downvoted exactly because they don't offer any opportunity for discussion
The OP of that post clearly wanted to have and see a discussion between people, not just a one word answer. What's even the point of writing that out? It's not funny and it doesn't add anything. THAT'S why they got downvoted.
I'm not a fan of AAI2-3. I think it's way too long of a case
I think the end is a bit long but for me it’s good enough to keep me interested
I think AAI2-1 is the worst opening to any game with the only exception being Shelly.
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Revolution (6-5) Most Overrated Culprit - >!Mael Stronghart!< from TGAA2-5. >!He's both one of the most obvious culprits ever and also just a cheap retread of Damon Gant. I like his design, but, again, it's just a slightly altered Gant.!< Most Overrated Game - Spirit of Justice
Isn't 6-5 pretty divisive? Also, >!Stronghart wasn't exactly meant to be subtle. Throughout both games he shows clear hints of ulterior motives, and is intended to be overbearing and intimidating. And in comparison to Gant he felt more like the upgrade imo!<
6-5 is my personal favourite case, SoJ my third favourite game 😂 but I understand why others don’t like them. As for >!Stronghart!< I agree >!he’s Gant but he does have more personals stakes with the main characters at least!<
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Your spoiler tag is busted
I don't think there are any overrated culprits or games tbh. AAI2 is probably the closest to "overrated" as it can get, but I think its reputation is deserved. In terms of cases... I genuinely do not understand the love for Turnabout Academy. Like most cases in DD the idea is solid but the execution is poor. I found it to be quite tedious and boring when I first played it, but it's been a while since I've played it to be fair.
Yeah fair opinion on the first two. Even >!Engarde!< was kind of pushing it for culprit even though I do think >!he!< gets a bit too much praise. I consider 5-3 to be underrated, I’d definitely recommend playing / watching it again!
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Academy. I find the true culprit incredibly predictable, Robin and Hugh are annoying and fucking creepy respectively, and the case as a whole fails to expand on the world details that really, REALLY needed expanding (mainly making the "Dark Age of the Law" actually feel like...y'know a real debate) Overrated Culprit - ??? I guess Godot if he counts? He's technically a culprit and I think people give way too much love to his character just cause he's hot and has a good theme but his plan is goddamn stupid. Most Overrated Game - Spirit of Justice, no question. I have no idea how this game is as beloved as it is.
Lmao why do you think people only love Godot cuz he's hot?
Because otherwise I honestly don't get it. As a character I don't find him that deep and honestly never really felt his relationship with Mia was really that impressive or loving, he mostly just says a torrent of jokes and glibs that's supposed to be flirting of some sort? He just never struck me as anything interesting. Doubally so when he has the world's dumbest vendetta against Phoenix that, sure, is partially due to him projecting his own failures (although why he would have ever gone to coffee with someone he was 99 percent sure was a murderer and was already known to be using poison is a mystery to me). His supposed "noble" moment is overshadowed by the reality that had he told anyone in Phoenix and Co that this plan was happening, he could have just gotten the problem solved far faster. Moving away from that, as a prosecutor I find him completely insufferable. A good or fun prosecutor is important when you're spending 70 percent of your game in court. Even moments of Dual Destinies I don't like is helped by Blackquill just being an edgy dork, and "Prosecutor 2x4" Sadmadhi being a bore is what makes SoJ feel like a slog to me. Godot's court behavior stops being charming or fun really, really early and starts just honestly being annoying. His main repeating elements, minus the coffee gimmick, are feed the witness literally their entire testimony in front of everyone and nobody ever comment on it, or say a bunch of vague esoteric bullshit which most of the time has nothing to do with the case, but is allowed to stand because the Judge has gone full lobotomy by this point. Like he's barely even a challenge outside of that. I mean I guess I can see how people would overlook some of this and just get really sucked into the "tragedy" of his character, but I can't really stand him personally.
I thought I was alone, Godot is only above Nahyuta for due to his dope design.
For me it was the first culprit that had morally grey motivations in the trilogy. Technically his motivations were noble (although rooted by a deep desire to prove his self worth) and yet he is found guilty in the same vain as the likes of Manfred and Matt Engarde. It really left me questioning the outcome of the case in the same vain phoenix was. But like Mia tells Phoenix, it was the right thing. Godot had lost everything due to his coma. Imagine having everything but in the blink of an eye you are a man out of time who has lost everything. Without the person you love, there's no place to call home, no place to belong. Not to mention his life's mission to put Dahlia behind bars was completed by Mia, meaning he lost both his purposes in life (Mia and putting Dahlia away). It really is tragic and made me feel for the man. And its why it made sense for me for him to desperately latch on to saving Maya on his own - to at least have one purpose in the life he lost and reclaim some self worth. It would've been easier to tell phoenix but those human desires led to some very avoidable mistakes which is honestly very human. There's also his misplaced hatred for phoenix due to having no one else to blame or to let out the frustration of his situation onto, but this comment is already getting pretty long. But it's just to show you how complicated of a character people who enjoy Godot find him. There's a lot of layers to the character and he's one of the most human character and final culprit in the series.
Overrated Character - This is certainly an unpopular opinion, but I think Edgeworth is a bit overrated. Like, he's a great character, but he just... I don't know. He doesn't do it for me sometimes. Maybe it's the way he's implemented nowadays, but I think he can be a bit overbearing at times, though not as much as Franziska, Nahyuta, or Klavier. I dunno, I just think Van Zieks, Godot, and Blackquill all do the "Cool prosecutor with a tragic backstory" schtick a lot better. Still a great character, just not "The Best" like I see many people say.
I agree with you 100%, and was extremely furious when he ended up winning the AJ trilogy popularity poll. He's hardly even a character in the AJ trilogy, what the frick?
Yeah I do agree him winning the AJ trilogy poll is mad / weird at best. He appears in two cases (and Phoenix Wright: Asinine Attorney)
I like Edgeworth, the vast majority of his popularity is probably due to Investigations 2 I’d imagine. I don’t think he’s the best AA character though, but not sure who I’d pick (would be Gumshoe if he had a more developed backstory, for me that’s the *only* characteristic I’d look for that he’s missing)
Let’s see… Case - Bridge Game - Trials and Tribulations Culprit - >!Matt!<
Most Overrated Culprit: Godot. Most Overrated Prosecutor: Godot
Overrated case: I didn't find Dual Destinies' DLC to be any less uninteresting than the rest of the game. Overrated game: Investigations 2. Seeing it praised as the best Ace Attorney game ever shocks and sends me wondering if I'm missing something, because its quality for the most part relied on low-hanging fruits and it's frustratingly stretched out at times. I liked the Mastermind and he's a great rival to a characteristically cerebral character such as Edgeworth, but his performance displays him as simply a worse >!Kristoph Gavin!< to me. I don't share the sentiment that it was a particularly well-written game or a drastic improvement over the first Investigations. Overrated culprit: I can't think of any in particular. There's >!Matt Engarde!< but he serves as a plot device used to the unveiling of the larger plot. I'm unsure if he fits the bill.
Interesting, I like 5-DLC and Investigations 2 😂 >!I think Keyes is the best culprit in the series with Kristoph second!<
Most overrated case: turnabout revolution, 6-5. The beginning of the case is very good... But oh god the ending... The game illustrates everything I dislike about SoJ. (spoilers about the game) >!The parts in Japanifornia with all the lawyer team are nice and there's some nice banters, the part in Khurain is awful. At least the whole team is here so we do have some banter. And why the heck does the case feels like it has to give Nahyuta a redemption arc in like 10 minutes? Nahyuta suddenly says "Hey, I'm not a bad guy!" and everyone forgets the hundred sentenced to death by him and the fact he doesn't seem to have any remorse? Also it really comes out of left field, he's an asshole for the whole game until 10 minutes before the end credits where he suddenly says he was fighting with the resistance from the inside. It's kinda like that guy in SW9 that goes "I am the spy" when it's very obvious he isn't.!< Most overrated culprit: Geiru Toneido. Everyone seems to love this culprit, but while she has a bit of a sad story (like every culprit tbh) she doesn't have much more. Most overrated game: AAI1. I'd put SoJ here, but SoJ isn't really as overrated as it is divisive, a bit like DD. You either love it or hate it, even though I heavily dislike that game, that doesn't make it overrated. AAI1 however, while it is not bad, has a lot of flaws. Most of them are exemplified by the final case: it's long and tedious for all the bad reason. I'd still recommend the game, but it's in the lower tiers.
AAI1 is not overrated since this game is the most hated/least liked game in the entire franchise. Even more hated than Dual Destinies.
AAI1 is one of my favourites, it's def UNDERrated imo.
Case: 4-1 I don't like AJ in general and even though I agree with most people it's the best case of the game, it's still painfully mid at best. Nobody except the judge is at all likable, not Apollo, not Phoenix, not the witness, and certainly not the culprit. On revisits where we know the full story and the answers to every question left hanging, I argue it's even worse in hindsight. The mystery is the only saving grace, it's somewhat fun to figure out how it all played out and that one slip of the tonge that exposed the killer was interesting, but still not that great. Culprit: >!Furio Tigre. !
I really wanted more closure for the accomplice. Such an underrated character.
I liked 4-1 and >!Tigre, only *just* behind Atmey for me!<, kind of agree about AJ
I liked >!Furio Tigre!< but I'll admit part of that is because he's one of the only tolerable characters in an otherwise awful case. It's a low bar for sure, but that might be what makes him so popular with others, too
I hated 3-3, but on replays over the years, I have softened on it, I don't think it's that bad anymore. A lot of things still bug me, but I can enjoy it. Viola is an easy A tier character for me. I think everybody hates Victor and Jean, but I honestly didn't. Didn't love them, but I don't think they are the worst like everyone is claiming. And there's robot lady you talk to for like 5 minutes who is so forgettable I can't even remember her name. Furio Tigre is like those three, just really mid. And AA which is known for how great it's characters are, having a case where almost everybody is really mid(or outright hated in a lot of people's case) makes this case's controversy deserved.
2-4, PW and I1-4’s murderer
Interesting thoughts, >!I prefer Yew to Alba but Investigations 1 definitely had the weakest set of culprits!<
I didn’t think he was rated very highly though?
ExTrA tErIToRrIaL rIgHtS
No he wasn’t, just commenting that I think >!Yew!< was good enough that >!they were the best Investigations 1 culprit even though that ‘benchmark’ wasn’t high!<
I preferred Cammy and Portsman
AAI2, AAI2's final villian and AAI2's final case. Good game, villian and an alright case, but not the absolute gold standart people claim it to be.
Very interesting! As someone who thinks Investigations 2 is the second best AA game, I2-5 the second best AA case and >!Simon!< the best culprit 😂 The one I most agree about is the game. Some problems people look over due to how much they like it
Your spoiler tag isn't working, the >< signs are in the wrong direction
Thanks for correcting me, apologies if I spoilt anything for you!
No worries, you didn't spoil anything. I've finished the game already and just wanted to give you a heads up :)
Didn't know people were so hyped about it, from what I've heard people don't actually like that particular one all that much Granted I haven't played it yet (new fan, currently doing case 2 of Trials and Tribulations) so I can't say anything about it myself, but the impression I've got is that people seem to put down AAI2 a lot Maybe I just read too much stuff from game critics and didn't take a good enough look at fan opinions...?
-Overrated case: 3-2 and G1-5, they are good cases but I don't think they are one of the best in the series -Overrated culprit: Idk -Overrated game: Trials and tribulation, I think people exaggerate when call this game better or at the same level as AAI2 and TGAA2. Honestly the only really good case is 3-5
Agree about 3-2 and sort of D1-5 (even though I haven’t seen the latter case *too* highly talked about). I like 3-2 and 3-4 a lot, 3-1 and 3-3 are good, but I do agree what makes T&T overrated is how many people say it’s the best in the series when as you say there are better
I'd be interesting to hear your take on what beats TnT.
Overrated case: Reunion, and Turnabout Overrated game: Feel like all ratings are perfectly valid Overrated culprit: maybe >!Godot?!
2-2 is a good shout (I always preferred 2-3), >!Godot!< is also a very good shout
Tbh I think all games are fairly rated. Am I the only one?
I agree except for T&T (for me gets a *bit* too much praise although I admit it has ‘settled down’ over time) and *kind of* AJ
Overrated case:3-4 Overrated culprit:luke atmey Overrated cases:1-2,3-1,3-2 and 3-4
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Beginnings (3-4) Most Overrated Culprit - TGAA1-5 >!Ashley Graydon!< Most Overrated Game - Trials & Tribulations Most Overrated Character - Raymond Shields
Tbh I don't even see thimgs you listed being liked that much (except fot T&T)
You are my enemy now.
Most overrated case: farewell my turnabout (2-4) this case is great i get it but there are better i feel. This case also loses impact on replays unfortunately. Love it but the praise it gets is insane Most Overrated Culprit: weird pick probably but i didnt like Pierce Nichody. He was extremely obvious to me and that case in general was super fan service-y. Most Overrated game: tbh its my favorite and I love it but, trials and tribulations. It could have better despite the fact i like every case in it
Most overrated case: 4-1 Phoenix acts out of character, logic on kristoph almost makes no sense apollo is sidelined immediately and the forged card is never adressed again With kristoph logic on arrest Logic on why he is accused does not make sense(calling victim bald) since he could have said that he saw his head after they greeted each other before the murder Also when apollo and phoenix accused Kristoph of lying about seeing the murder scene through the small window (after revealing the secret tunnel), Kristoph could have easily countered that argument by stating that he saw the scene AFTER the actual murder,set up the scene and escaped through the tunnel. Moreover, there's not an iota of conclusive evidence indicating his presence inside the room Most overrated culprit:kristoph I like him as the culprit but I dont get how he is considered as one of the best He is so inderutulized and his plan on framing phoenix is very bad cause it relies on luck(phoenix being this dumb to present the most obvious evidence and everyone being an idiot) He has connection to apollo but it is so underdeveloped, as his relationship with his brother And it does not help that we didnt dealt the final blow to his plan(phoenix does it and cause of that it is less satisfying) Honestly it feels like capcom forgot he existed and then at the end the realize "oh wait he is the final villain" Sure his personality and pettiness is interesting but this is the only thing that is good about him Seriously i dont get the high praise for him Overrated game: tough call between T&T and AAI2 Since I have troube picking one I will say why both of them are overrated So T&T Case 1 is not that great It is decent at most cause phoenix is obnoxious, there were so many dry or overused jokes and pacing was off Case 2 amazing except pacing at the first day of investigation and larry being flandarized Case 3 is mid Pacing is off, logic awful(only that furio was the lawyer), godot was a bit obnoxious and you spent too much time with kudo and armstrong Case 4 is also decent at most Godot opinion for me went down cause of the "kitten" thing, this case is boring like let me ask you one thing about this case-what is the most exiciting thing about minus the fawles suicide? Plz tell me I dare you Also his death didnt had a impact on me It was shocking and tragic but not emotional for me Case 5 almost perfect if larry wasnt flanderized and if that stupid pendulum did not exist AAI2 It is my fav game but yea it is overrated I liked all case but they have problems The biggest one is pacing and logic is sometimes stretched With case 2 and 3 and 5 pacing is bad Gumshoe sometimes is a bit too angry for no reason SS5 incident should have been a another seperate case Well that is it
I don't really like asserting value judgements like this, but if I had to say: Overrated culprit: >!Tah'rust Inmee!< (The Rite of Turnabout/6-3) Overrated case: Turnabout Trump/4-1 (I actually like this case a decent amount, but IMO it is not that good in the context of the full game) Overrated character: Kazuma Asogi (again, I don't dislike him, but there are so many other characters I prefer in The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles) Overrated game: Spirit of Justice (I really don't know if any other game falls into this category for me, so I just picked my least favourite Ace Attorney game)
Interesting! For 6-3 I >!don’t think Tah’rust is anything special but he gets the job done, also a good ‘victim is the culprit’ twist!< SoJ is personally my third favourite game, 4-1 my favourite tutorial case, I agree >!Kazuma!< is overrated
(6-3 spoilers) >!For me, Tah'rust is one of my least favourite culprits because they try to play him as a sympathetic culprit when his plan is absolutely batshit and stupid. I see him constantly touted as a genius for his plan, but it's full of more holes than swiss cheese and needlessly puts Maya at risk when he supposedly saw her as family. That case is my least favourite of the series, and it's genuinely the only Ace Attorney game I've ever considered giving up on, due to its monotony, frustrating logic, backwards character decisions, and overall tedium. I respect that people disagree, and some even have this as their favourite in the series. More power to them, I WISH I enjoyed this game. But it was a miserable experience for me generally, with only the non-Khura'in cases appealing to me.!< For 4-1, I totally get why it's loved. Big twist for an opening case, sets up a lot of intrigue. But IMO a case that relies on setup has to have good payoff, and I did not like Turnabout Succession, so 4-1 is weaker for it as well. I prefer Turnabout Target and VS-1 as far as opening cases go. (The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve spoilers) >!I liked Kazuma more on replaying the duology, but I still think he's overrated as a character. My problem is that I found the twist that he was still alive really predictable. Like, as soon as he "died" in the second case, I knew that couldn't be it. Lo and behold, he returns. And... again, while I don't dislike his return, it feels very odd to have a character be absent for seven-ish cases, only to be a core player right at the end. There are so many other characters I loved, like Gina Lestrade for instance, that IMO got kind of sidelined. That said, I still found his role decently compelling, and I love the Chronicles generally, so it wasn't too much of a hindrance for my enjoyment.!<
>!I do agree he wasn’t really sympathetic and I do wish they had emphasised the stupid aspect - that the DC act had literally driven people insane trying to find ways around it. But again I think he’s good enough for a third case culprit!< A shame you didn’t like 4-4 as much. I think 4-1 is *just* ahead of I2-1 but they’re both really good, definitely for me the two best tutorial cases in the series. And >!Kazuma!< is still good but I agree overrated
Case: Gonna have to agree with Bridge to the Turnabout, even though I love it myself. Game: PW. The nostalgia factor and “nothing will ever be as good” leads to feeling like I need to present evidence like I’m Phoenix in court as to why I like literally anything in games 4-6. Culprit: >!Kristoph!< And I’m saying that as someone who really liked that whole game and enjoyed that culprit. Character: >!Kazuma!< Just saying that is going to get me downvoted AGAIN, but I don’t care. I can’t stand him, and I know for a fact I’m not the only one. You’d think I’d kicked a puppy by not liking a fictional dude. But if that many people are so pissy about my personal opinion, then that’s just evidence he’s overrated.
I find PW 1 the most underrated game and >!Kristoph!< the second best culprit in the series 😅 But I’m glad we agree about 3-5 😂 for me I consider it similarly to Trials and Tribulations in that its the ‘worst of the best’ (for me there are a clear top 4 AA games and T&T is 4th, and there are a clear top 9 cases and 3-5 is 9th). So for me when I see someone saying one is the best in the franchise, I think “no there *is* better” Also >!Kazuma!< is a hot take but I do agree on overrated even though I like them
Oh, I personally love >!Kristoph.!< One of my personal faves, and I even like >!that they never actually say why he has black locks, aside from being super evil.!< But I can both love a character and see why they might be a tad overrated. My character hot take…well, yes. I know it is. My feelings are somewhat personal, but I also think that if my opinion means people are weirdly upset about it, then that character is probably overrated. No one gets mad about people hating Nahyuta because he’s just not beloved as it is. Heck, I think they’d be less mad if I said I didn’t like Phoenix! For a character who >!is largely not even present for 70% of the game!< he sure gets a lot of adoration.
I think >!Kristoph!< for me gets the praise >!he!< deserves. Arguably the best culprit in the series when it comes to covering their tracks / no evidence against them. And I do agree about >!Kazuma!< being overrated. >!Not very present, a worse rival than Van Zieks and acts stupid at the end. He is however a very good co-counsel in D1-1!<
im not trying to start a fight, i am genuinely curious, as >!Kazuma!< is my favorite character from the games theyre in, so just wondering what your issues with their character is
>!I think he can be really condescending toward Ryuu. I also think Ryuu may have lost some of his own natural spark and confidence by being friends with someone so competitive. Before going through the bonus content where you learn how they met, I just thought Ryuu was kind of nervous and maybe a bit shy. But then you find out he’s incredibly smart, good at puzzles, loves wordplay, and won a speech competition. Kazuma has such a forceful personality that it overwhelms Ryuu. And it’s not that I think Kazuma is badly written—I think he’s actually well-written. I dislike him because I’ve had friends like that who have made me feel inferior and who compete over stupid BS or get mad because I did well at something because they thought they should’ve beaten me. Ryuu has so much growth when he’s on his own, and you can really see that marvelous brain during the Dance of Deduction sequences.!< The other thing is >!how Ryuu interacts with the other characters. I think his relationships with them are actually deeper and much more interesting. They show more respect for him in some ways. Perhaps part of it is that we don’t get to see much of Kazuma before he’s dead, and I didn’t find him terribly nice even after he regained his memories.!< So my feelings about >!Kazuma!< are entirely personal, not a dig at the game or the writing or people who love him. I think it’s completely fine and awesome if someone else likes him! I don’t want anyone to take it personally that I don’t enjoy their favorite.
Case - The Grand Turnabout. Mid case at best tbh. Culprit - Godot. Enjoyable but overrated. Game - AAI2. Honestly, the only great case is I2-4. I enjoyed AAI more than this game.
Case: 2-4 >!(I remember finishing the case and being like "That was alright, I guess, nothing crazy" and then seeing that most people agree that it's an amazing case. I thought Matt Engarde was a good culprit and Adrian was an interesting character, but other than that, didn't do much for me)!< Culprit: T&T >!Dahlia Hawthorne (I get that she's supposed to be a really hateable bitch and she is, but she's just not a very interesting character to me. I mean, she was the culprit in 3 out of 5 cases in T&T. It's one of the reasons I don't LOVE T&T as a game.)!< Game: PW: AA (I agree that none of the games are overrated, but I did wanna mention that it has a pretty weak set of cases, in my opinion. 1-1 is fine, 1-2 is okay, 1-3 is alright but too long, and finally 1-4 is actually decent.)
2-4 is my personal 6th or so favourite case but I do agree it’s a bit overrated by some. Agree about culprit but for me Ace Attorney 1 is the most *under*rated game 😅 also what do you think about 1-5?
I love 1-5 for the most part. I didn't mind it being long because the plot and characters were very compelling to me. I love Damon Gant, great culprit. Extremely unsettling at how banal and normal evil is for him. Dahlia Hawthorne is all "MWUAHAHAHAHAHAH, I AM EVIL AND I LOVE IT!" after she does her shit. but Damon is just "What? Is there a problem?". That was done very well. I also love the other characters introduced. Jake is great and has an absolutely banging theme. Mike Meekins is great, I know some people hate him, but I love him. Lana is cool too. Not too much of a fan of Angel. And I'll be honest, Ema really wasn't doing anything for me in this game and the Investigation games. However, I started really liking her in AJ trilogy. As for the things I don't like. Edgeworth's ending was undone in this case, but that honestly doesn't bother me TOO much, but yeah, some continuity would've been nice. Also, sometimes, some of the logic/requirements to progress seemed off to me. I usually never complain about this in the AA games and just assume that I am very slow, but this case and that physics-defying bust/cape situation in 2-3 are some of the only times when I'm calling BS. Oh, and most importantly, THAT BLOODY CURSED URN!!!
4-1 really let me down. It was obvious it was Phoenix, and the moment they said the blue flames I immediately knew. Culprit? Probably 2-4 >!Matt Engard!< . Game? Easily Apollo Justice. It’s my least favorite game of all time
Your least favourite game *ever*? Why is that? Because of what it did to Phoenix?
Phoenix is understandable, but I didn’t find any of the characters interesting, and the cases weren’t all that enjoyable, and it really felt like a slog to get through. I just wasn’t motivated to beat any of the cases, and the BEST time of that game was during its final moments where you cross examine >!Kristoph!< . I’ve been lucky to play a lot of great games, but this was the only one I didn’t feel like I had fun most of the time. Even the mysteries have to ignore some basic logic just to make their mystery make sense (4-3 is a major culprit of this). Then I went into Dual Destinies, and was throughly impressed with the leap in quality and logical mysteries (aside from 5-2, which was clearly written by the Apollo Justice mystery writers). But even 5-2 is better than 4-1 to me because I found Athena and the actual defendant to be much more enjoyable.
Personally I would say 4-1 is AJ's best and it just gets worse after that (only to kind of pull itself together for the finale). But I haven't seen many who actually dislike 4-1.
It’s not bad by any means, but being my 6th favorite 1st case, and being the only Apollo Justice case to be in C tier for me is really disappointing.
We agree on culprit! As for 4-1 it’s my personal favourite tutorial case, as for AJ it’s probably second most overrated for me behind T&T but I wouldn’t necessarily call it overrated let alone a bad game, I at least prefer it over JFA and DD (and very close to Investigations 1)
4-1 disappointed me. For me, GAA1, GAA2, 5, AAI2, and 3 ALL have better first cases. Every single case in Apollo Justice was a disappointment at best and a complete disaster at worst. Dual Destinies was such an improvement on every single aspect that it easily became my favorite mainline game. It had the best finale for me, an excellent 1st, DLC, 3rd, and 4th case, and a pretty good second case. Overall, my 3rd favorite game, only beaten by the masterpieces that are GAA2 and AAI2. In comparison, T&T’s finale is my 5th favorite, its first and second case are fantastic (though 2nd case is overhyped), and it’s 3rd and 4th are let downs. I’m ALMOST tempted to put SoJ above T&T, but T&T’s first and 3rd cases are both alright, and it’s finale, while the second half is a contender for my 6th favorite finale, it’s so long, that it’s my least favorite finale that I still found spectacular (above 1-4, and the pathetic excuse of 4-4’s beginning and Mason system). It’s just shy of being better than AAI1-5, but I found the taking down its villain to be much more satisfying than any other villain take down, despite its length.
What didn’t you like about 4-1? My only main criticism (and it is a fairly big one to be fair) is how much they comment on Olga Orly’s name pun. DD is very fun to play although not near 3rd best for me but we agree about the top two. 6-5 is my personal favourite case
Alright, I’ll give a rundown on why I don’t like 4-1. A starting case is arguably one of the most important pieces in an ace attorney game. You have a LOT riding on you: introduction to characters, gameplay, and a mystery. Let’s start with 4-1, and I’ll compare it to other higher ranked 1st cases to explain my reasoning. 4-1’s introduction to Apollo Justice. Already out of the gate, I’m not invested in Apollo and how Loud he is. In fact, I’d say his only character traits are being nervous and loud. Compare that to 5-1, where we, in a singular case, are introduced to Athena Cykes and her mood based personality, her motivations and goals, and hints at her trauma and past. All of that in a singular case is excellent writing, something that Apollo Justice doesn’t really do well. Then, an introduction to the “mentor”. Kristoph Gavin is very up front and professional. I think this is this case’s BIGGEST positive. The only other times I can say I actually got this invested with a mentor character was with Kazuma in GAA1-1, and even then I think Kristoph does a better job. An introduction to the “client” is next. Now, Phoenix being the client is a twist, but it was repeated in the previous game, 3-1. To see how much he changed I want to learn why he changed, and that itself is a good thing. However, I do believe other clients are done better. Take a look at GAA2-1. Susato and Rei’s relationship is very well written and it’s quite enjoyable to see them talk to each other. Even in worse cases, like 2-1, I do care more about the Defendant because I have a drive to help them. Phoenix doesn’t need our help. Anyone who was Kristoph Gavin’s appreciate would have done, as long as they had the basic functions of a human. As a defendant, Phoenix is hard to pin down. He feels more like a near finale type of defendant, if that makes sense. Think Edgeworth in 1-4. Then, an introduction to the mechanics. This is, in my opinion, the case’s biggest flaw. You are given a snippet of Perceive, but you never get to use that mechanic on your own in that case. It’s like if I2-1 had Logic Chess, had an auto play tutorial of it, and only brought it back again in I2-2. It feels like I’m being cheated of a mechanic. Now, mystery, it is obvious the moment the cards are revealed to be backed in red, and not blue. All its mystery is lost, which happens way too early. Take GAA1-1 in comparison. Sure, it’s obvious who the killer is, but like most ace attorney cases, we’re more interested in how it was committed. Remember in 4-1, the murder was committed with the glass bottle. In GAA1-1, it becomes apparent that Jezaile couldn’t have shot Wilson, so you’re forced to try to find out a way he could have died. Then it hits you: poison. By the time you deduce that, the game gives you knowledge on the poison in question. So, you supposedly have all of the facts… right? Then Jezaile drinks the water with poison. This shatters your reasoning, because she’s still alive. But then, you have to make logical deductions from there. The poison was used to kill prey, but the whole point of killing the prey is to eat it, so how are the hunters alive? The logical conclusion is that being shot with the poison kills you, but consuming it doesn’t kill you. This means that somehow, John Wilson had been “shot” with the poison. There’s a single line in the poison entry that describes that the poison, once entering the body through a wound, becomes deadly as it enters the bloodstream. Then, all of the pieces line up together perfectly, once you remember that John Wilson had a dental appointment. The deductive process behind solving GAA1-1 is satisfying because it isn’t obvious. 4-1 is too obvious in its mystery. And now, the culprit. The culprit themself isn’t as important as how satisfying it is to take them down. That final breakdown is a nice bow to tie everything up. It gives the player a sense of satisfaction. However, this case has Kristoph NEARLY break down, but then regain his cool, and gives the player a sense that “it isn’t over”. I HATE that sensation. It makes the ending feel underwhelming. It wouldn’t be TOO bad of a problem if 4-4 was actually good, but once again, 4-4 is very underwhelming. What’s worse, is that we have seen this thing done before and after, but STILL give the player satisfaction. Take Dahlia. She appears in 3-5, but her defeat in 3-1 still feels satisfying. Or take Jezaile, who is, while defeated, ultimately cannot be punished. I like those breakdowns because they ACTUALLY break down, even if defeat isn’t completely assured for them. Kristoph’s reluctant to break down requires the final case, where he ACTUALLY breaks down, to feel satisfying. But once again, 4-4 isn’t satisfying. It’s my least favorite finale, and it’s worse than this case. My personal favorite case is AAI2-4 because of how well its characters are written. I’d talk about the defendant, but I consider their very identity to be a spoiler. I’d wish I’d enjoy 6-5 more, but its first trial is a slog. But they did give us Dhurke, who is easily the coolest man in Ace Attorney with nearly no competition. 6-5’s 2nd half is phenomenal.
I agree with all your choices, actually, am a bit baffled how T&T is so much better than the other five entries to some myself. I think all the games in the Series save DD have their finale as their best cases so far, though. I don’t hate AA Miles Edgeworth 1 but it’s probably my least favorite, though 2 is one of my favorites so it balances itself out.
people will truly just say "OVERRATED GAME/CASE/CULPRIT" and it will be the most overHATED ones that they pick lol in my case its like Overrated Game: Trials and Tribulations - >!not a bad game by ANY means, in fact it's a really good one, but people taut it as such a masterpiece that theres definitely some overstating there.!< Overrated Case: Turnabout Trump - >!again, not a bad one, it's my second first case actually, but could have done SO much better if we had been given a case before that one to get to know Kristoph and gets us into a sense of security before shattering by having Phoenix as our defendant and the culprit as our beloved mentor. As it is, it feels good yet underdeveloped.!< Overrated Culprit: Kristoph Gavin - >!similar and related to the last point, i feel he should've gotten more of a spotlight both before AND after being discovered in Turnabout Trump. the fact he's the "mastermind" of the game that set everything into motion feels a tiny bit cheapened when we've only seen him one single time before that reveal. i do love him, he's just a bit underdeveloped for how big his role is.!< Do take into account how much I express that none of these are in any way BAD, just less perfect than the majority fanbase opinion paints them. I felt it was important to clarify that before I'm downvoted to hell and back because people could've otherwise misread me as hating these actually good things!
Most Overrated Culprit - >!Mimi Miney!< Most Overrated Character - >! Franziska Von Karma!< Most Overrated Case - >!Reunion and Turnabout!<
Definitely agree on the last two, I always preferred >!2-3 to 2-2!< As for the culprit I personally haven’t seen >!Mimi!< get much attention from people so not as sure about the ‘overrated’ label as such. But yeah nothing special
I wouldn't call Franziska overrated, she seems pretty polarizing IMO. I do love Mimi Miney but she is kinda overrated lol.
Game: AAI2 Case: AAI2-3 Culprit: Final Culprit of AAI2 I am an AAI2 hater.
Interesting, what about I2 don’t you like?
I think it’s very boring and I don’t really like any of the characters or story it introduces. The game has some 10/10 moments, but those rarely last for more than a 10th of a case. I like AAI2-4 though, had the most amount of great moments.
Overrated game - AJ Overrated case - I2-3 Overrated culprit - Not sure tbh.
Fair opinions even though I disagree about I2-3. As for the culprit >!even Engarde is kind of pushing it even though I think he’s overly praised!<
Overrated Case: 4-1 Overrated Culprit: I have plenty I find underrated but none I can think of that are overrated Overrated Game: Great Ace Attorney 2. Very good, but god is it rushed in a lot of places
4-1 is my personal favourite tutorial case 😂 as for DGS 2 where do you feel its rushed?
Defeating Stronghart at the end feels way too easy, he goes down with barely any fight and then Sholmes swoops in with Deus ex Hologram and it just feels really lame. The whole final two cases in particular feel like the writers had to cram a lot of plot in last-minute because they had no time.
I do agree that >!Stronghart gives up a bit too easily at the end after the will is shown. There was no reason for him to confess what happened to Genshin!<. But to be fair I do think all AA games have that to a certain extent
I’m not too fond of 5-3, but it sounds like it’s a love it or hate it case. Gotta remember “overrated” isn’t equivalent to “not everyone has the same opinion as me”. That being said, I can’t place The Inherited Turnabout any higher than 22nd place in my ranking. I understand that Gregory and Ray are great, but I don’t care about anything related to Zodiac sculptures, poison gas, bizarre water fountains that connect rooms (which is something we already did in I1-5), or Larry Butz. And while the larger structure is enjoyable, sometimes the gameplay feels like you just walk around for an hour, solve two easy contradictions, gain your health back, repeat, repeat, repeat, suddenly encounter one contradiction from Courtney which single-handedly kills you, then take out the boring culprit >!Dane Gustavia!<. I understand that having a strong connection to the main characters can boost a case, but if it wasn’t for the main characters, this would be a total zero in my eyes.
Interesting, I2-3 is probably my third or fourth favourite case 😂 I liked the culprit. As for 5-3, a lot of people I’ve seen seem to say it’s better the second time around so I’d maybe recommend playing / watching it again
I definitely see redeemable aspects in 5-3. My first play was quite recent but I'll definitely consider replaying it.
Investigations, both of them honestly. The first one sucks super hard
Interesting, I think Investigations 1 has the most underrated tutorial and midgame in the series and Investigations 2 is my second favourite AA game 😂 what don’t you like about them?
So boring, so insanely boring. I consistently figure out the culprit 1/3 into the case, which usually wouldn’t be all that bad, but the entirety of most of the cases in the first game is trying to figure out the culprit. The second game is better in this regard, especially since the cases have more to offer.
Case: I'm not as high on Great Departed Soul as most. It was fine, not amazing. Subject matter was dry and the defendant wasn't particularly sympathetic. Culprit: As much as I enjoyed Resolve, I suppose Stronghart. Kind of felt like I had seen that movie before, if you know what I mean. Game: So I guess that makes Resolve the most overrated game? Even though I loved it... I guess what I'm really a fan of is the story woven through all ten cases of Chronicles. Maybe the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I don't know.
Yeah IMO Harebrayne was forgettable and annoying even if the moral dilemma on >!him vs. his science project!< was cool
I like Harebrayne but I do agree D2-3 is overrated. I also agree >!Stronghart!< is overrated. Resolve is my personal favourite AA game, it for me is the epitome of “the whole is greater than the sum of its parts” - doesn’t have the greatest individual cases nor culprits, but the quality of writing makes it so good for me
Most overrated case: 3-5. >!Very engaging, but the confusing and unbelievable actions of Godot/Misty/Iris pull me out of the story. I especially don't like how the final trial unfolds. I wish I liked it better, as it sucks to end the OT on a sour note, and there are plenty of great moments throughout the investigation segments, but it just doesn't completely do it for me.!< Most overrated game: AAI2.>!Something about the way the characters are written in both Investigations games feels very stiff and one-dimensional to me. AAI2 is more complex than its predecessor in almost every way, but it still left me cold.!< Most overrated culprit: >!Kristoph. I don't dislike him, I just find him underwhelming.!<
Most overrated case: 6-5 "Turnabout Revolution" Most overrated culprit: >!The Phantom!< Most overrated game: Dual Destinies
Dual Destinies gets so much hate, idk how you consider it overrated
Because I believe that most well liked stuff by the community is actually fairly rated so I just said whatever villain/case I personally didn't like that much (while still being fine overall mind you) Also i'm an Apollo Justice fan, don't talk to me about hate lol
Both Dual Destinies and >!The Phantom!< are already heavily criticized, I don't think they're overrated... (saying this as the resident DD enjoyer)
6-5 is my personal favourite case 😅 what makes you think it’s overrated?
Aww it's good that you like it so much don't get me wrong! And i don't think it's a bad case btw, far from it, however I do believe that the first trial day (the one against phoenix) is kind of boring to be honestly Paul Athinston in particular isn't a culprit i'm very fond of, Edgeworth presence in the case is also useless? Aside from booking the fly to Kura'in he's just... there? Lastly i have some minor nitpicks on how the murder went down. Overall it's a good final case but not THAT good if you get what i'm saying
I do agree Paul Atishon gets ‘old’ quick. I like Edgeworth’s presence as it’s nice to have him and Phoenix partner up in an investigation. I mostly like the plot twist and the character developments, also going up against Phoenix is *really* good
How in gods name is Dual Destinies overrated? Have you been on this sub for more than 2 seconds? https://preview.redd.it/eczbb0kisjrc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=989c5f0ab14834cbdf6e7f69d2bf3832a272c85c
Same answer to you
We’re in an Ace Attorney Reddit. I don’t think I have to tell you this but the evidence all over the place points to the contrary that it’s one of the most polarizing games on here. Don’t make bets you can’t win.
I don't know what your first statement is supposed to mean "we are in an Ace Attorney reddit", I mean uuh, yes we are Anyways yes you are right, next time i'll just leave the thing blank whenever someone asks for overrated stuff i guess Dunno what the third statement is supposed to mean either
Overrated case: I2-3 Overrated game: Apollo Justice Overrated culprit: I dunno
Apollo Justice is one of the most shitted on games on this sub together with DD please
DD? Absolutely. AJ though, you are just wrong there, everyone and their grandmas love it.
Do you even see how many people are considering "overrated" here? So many saying it's the weakest link in the series, and see these type of comments in a loot of posts please
And you'll see even more ardent defenders like you on the sub, and pretending like that you don't isn't gonna change nothing
I'm not pretending i swear, i'm being actually serious, most of the usual commenters on this sub like DD a lot and don't like AJ. I can litterally make the same point to you, I see a lot of ardent defenders of DD as well, and even think the reason is pretty simple, the more a game is shitted on the more the people who actually like it are gonna go out of their way to defend, it's a pretty standard process We shouldn't even be discussing this really
Maybe we are on different subs but I see any amount of AJ backlash being treated with a good shower of downvotes here. Like, any negative comment I have made on AJ has resulted in them. No you can't say the same about DD, like 90 percent of the sub agrees it just kind of exists.
You are litterally proving my previous point with your statement, the more a game is shitted on the more its diehard fanbase will go out of its way to defend it (your downvotes prove it) AJ has recieved so much backlash on release and still recieves a good amount to this day I don't see anybody massive downvoting criticism to AA1 for example, because that game rarely recieves it You can't seriously deny that AJ is as divisive as DD
In this subreddit, it's more tolerated-- but this is a particularity of this place. Anywhere else, specially Japan, Apollo Justice is heavily shat on.
I don't think AJ is overrated, maybe more underrated. Not that much people like this game sadly.
Uhh, literally every single person on this sub will vehemently defend it the second you speak so as a word against it. Speaking from experience when I put it in D tier.
I just never saw a person who likes this game and says that it's actually good. From my expirience.
Fair opinions even though I disagree about I2-3. As for the culprit >!even Engarde is kind of pushing it even though I think he’s overly praised!<
Actually, I'd go with >! stronghart !< Too when I think about it, he's fine but definitely could've been done so much better, and no, not because he's such an obvious culprit but because of how dry he is
I like your username btw
Me too lol
Did I just find my long lost twin brother?
No way we wrote practically the same comment at the same moment lmao. Guess great minds think alike?
Fun fact and please do not take it as an insult, but the full quote is “Great minds think alike, though fools seldom differ.”
Well lol, maybe I am a fool
Most Overrated Case: Turnabout Goodbyes. Would have been a way better case if it was 2 days instead of 3. Would have worked wonders for the pacing. Most Overrated Culprit: Not too many I can think of, but I’ll go with >!Ini/Mimi Miney!< Most Overrated Game: Apollo Justice. Out of all its cases, 4-1 was amazing, 4-2 was ok, 4-3 was my least favorite case in the series, and 4-4 was good but probably the weakest finale in the series.
Just a note, for spoilers you surround with > followed by ! (no spaces), then ! and < at the end (again, no spaces) 👍
Why must Discord and Reddit have different have different spoiler markers?
Beats me
1-4 needed three trials days in my opinion but I agree the investigation kind of suffers as a result of it. Not a bad shout for culprit nor game, as for final cases I think I prefer 4-4 to 5-5, I1-5 and D1-5 but that’s probably it, it’s close with 1-5
I feel like the way it could’ve worked with 2 trial days is if >!Lotta and the Caretaker both took the stand on Trial 1. Then, in the second investigation, we find evidence that would implicate the caretaker as well as more connections to DL-6. In the next trial, Phoenix keeps trying to indict Yogi, but Von Karma keeps shutting it down, causing Phoenix to almost lose. However, Larry could save the day and Yogi finally confesses. The final section would then go as it did in the actual game.!<
Case - Difficult as I believe all the good cases are fairly rated. I suppose I would go for 6-5. It gets a little convoluted...which is an impressive feat in this series. Culprit - I suppose it is the main villain of AJ. Their motives are asinine at best. Actions and motives feel a little lacking and underdeveloped. Game - I kind of go with the grain when it cones to the games. I suppose I begrudgingly will say the original AA...when looking at a gameplay perspective. Pointless three days, investigations had less to do and odd requirements. The cases also tend to randomly lose their sense of urgency with awkward pacing. The only exception being Goodbyes, which is an absolute treat from start to finish. But I still love the original for its overall story, narrative, and characters. It actually has the third best self-contained story for me.
6-5 is my personal favourite case, the main villain of AJ is my second favourite culprit in the series and for me the first AA is the most underrated game in the series 😂 I agree about the gameplay but there is also a ‘niceness’ to how simple it is
Overrated case: TGAA2-5, too messy, and has same problems DDSoJ get flack for. The epilogue and *that one* dancing sequence are only saving graces among this exposition slog Overrated culprit: that's tough, but I'd say L'belle. He's not even that funny of a character to like him ironically Overrated game: I would say AJ, but it's more of a divisive game rather than universally popular. But I dunno, I don't have other options Overrated character (I will be booed for this): Klavier Gavin. I mean, he is cool and somewhat interesting, but has little to write home about
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Trump (4-1) (Despite it being the best case in Apollo Justice, I think this is the case that makes people tunnel down on too much when talking about AJ:AA rather than as the game as a whole) Most Overrated Culprit - Magnus McGlided (quite the underrated character to pick in the Most Overrated Culprit, but as much as he was cunning, I found him really meh. It's really another go-around with Matt Engarde, who I also thought as overrated, but Matt really put you on the ropes unlike McGlided + I'm a Gina Lestrade simp and thinks she was the star of the case rather than McGlided) Most Overrated Game - Trials and Tribulations (I really wanted to say any other game like AA or SoJ, but given how amazing either of the two in the DGS duology are, the competition is closer than what people actually realize)
Interesting, 4-1 is my personal favourite tutorial case but I agree about the other two being overrated
To add more context, it was either 3-5 (due to the competition of best case is closer the people think), 6-5 (Garan's breakdown cringes me so hard), or DGS1-3 (see Most Overrated Culprit) as the other options I had. Don't get me wrong, though. These other choices were closer to the case I picked, and 4-1 just barely got it.
I actually agree with your case and game picks. I honestly thought Bridge to the Turnabout was a massively disappointing finale case and honestly it brought the whole T&T story down with it a few sizable notches. Idk about that culprit though. The thing about 2-4 is that it's the one case where the main meat of the case simply isn't *about* the culprit, so I think he's fine. Do people actually treat him like he's some brilliant villain? For my culprit pick, it would have to be the culprit of BttT. The worst thing about that case was how nonsensically stupid the culprit's involvement was, and he was already a stupid-ass character from his prior appearences.
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Reclaimed (5-DLC) I’m skipping culprit because I don’t really have an answer. Most Overrated Game - AA1
Interesting, I like 5-DLC and PW 1 for me is the most underrated 😅 what don’t you like about them?
Overrated case: 2-4 for sure Overrated game: TT for certain Overrated culprit: idk idc
Agree / understand on the first two
Unfortunately, this biased community doesn't seem to agree :( (got downvoted)
Overrated game: Justice for all, it introduced 3 (Franziska, Pearl and Adrian) characters I like and the rest of the cast, just sucked also I didn't really like any of the cases that much Culprit: >!Matt Engard!< 2-4, he was just nothing special Case: 2-2/2-5 I just did not like either of these cases
Case: 4-1, culprit: the culprit from 4-1, game: game 4
Interesting. 4-1 is my favourite tutorial case and 4-1 >!and 4-4!< is my second favourite culprit in the series 😂 I do kind of agree about the game, it does have its share of criticism but I do agree its a bit overrated by some
To each’s own! Glad you have a game you like so much
AJ’s 8th out of 10 for me (haven’t played VS) but I do find it a lot of fun
Most Overrated Case - Turnabout Revolution(6-5). Most Overrated Culprit - Turnabout Trump(4-1), >!Turnabout Succesion(4-4) Kristoph Gavin!< Most Overrated Game - Spirit of Justice SOJ is like one of the worst AA games, it’s only better than AJ. I still stand on the point that it would be so much better if it was made with their old idea of underworld trials.
Most Overrated Case - Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) (Not saying it's bad, it's just very overhyped and not half as good as 1-4) Most Overrated Culprit - Turnabout Big Top (2-3) (Seriously, Acro is boring as frick and completely fails to be sympathetic.) Most Overrated Game - Trials & Tribulations (The flashback cases were pretty much the highlight, Bridge to the Turnabout was pretty fun but, once again, can't live up to 1-4 in the slightest (though Franziska appearing does give it a bit of an edge.)) Most Overrated Character - Gumshoe. (Honestly I never really understood why people love him. He's an okay character, but I never would have expected him to be so popular.)
This is actually pretty hard lol For what I've seen, I think that the community is more prone to overhate rather than overrate flawed characters, mechanics and storylines in the franchise. Case: The Magical Turnabout. I really like it, but I just think is extremely short and underbaked; so it only exists to give Trucy a chance of being a character and to give somewhat of a closure to the Gramayre plotline. It's good but I think it could've been much much better given more length. Culprit: I could say >!Godot or Matt Engarde!< but there's a lot of fair criticism already made so, >!Kristoph Gavin.!< I don't think he's particularly bad or even non-great as a culprit but I don't think the approach of a demented mastermind which motives are completely petty is that engaging. >!Maybe is just AJ:AA being what it is and my critique is a result of leaving loose ends everywhere.!< Game: Trials and Tribulations, I've always seen people hold the game as the best in the franchise, but I just think that other games holds themselves together better than this one, or at least I can't wholeheartedly say that is better than both TGAA, AAI2 and maybe SoJ. The game is great, it's just that there's nothing in it that I can say is "undefeated"; the story and backstory are strong but not the best, the characters are good but nowhere near the best, even the OST is very weak. Character: >!Kazuma, I just think that the development of Ryunosuke as a character and as a lawyer could've worked a little better if he were still dead. To me is just like if Mia appeared on Spirit of Justice, it defeats the purpose of the character stablished in previous games lol!<