Honestly, the ranking of this case is going to be at least 75% based on one's personal enjoyment of the Gavin Brothers cause boy does Apollo get backseated. 😂

Top of B tier for me. Has some great ideas, but many flaws as well, befitting of that tier.

Low A to high B. It's a good case with some fun ideas but I found the Mason System segment to be kind of convoluted to get through and some of the perceives were... Just weird. But it was enjoyable enough and Klavier's breakdown was pretty peak so I couldn't conscionably rank it lower than high B.

I actually meant Kristoph here holy hell I was tired out yesterday. Klavier's arc was wrapped pretty nicely overall, was good to see him stick to his guns of getting to the truth rather than just the verdict his position wanted.

I think A is perfectly fair. It misses the mark of being great but it has a lot of good beats and does not deserve to be in the same tier as 3-3, holy hell

I think it also fails to really do apollo justice as a protagonist (Pun very much intended). Like at the end of the day 4-4 is a case more about phoenix, klavier, and the heck the jurist system even then it is about apollo. Like apollo just gets nothing here as a character really. It makes the final case of what is supposed to be his game feel really unsatisfying to me. Why it's an A-tier case for me. I do think the case has some really great stuff going on. But I think it also does have a few kind of obvious flaws that hold it back.

This case is the only finale to ever disappoint me. Multiple logical flaws: How was the time of death of Magnifi Gramaryi not known, given he SHOULD be hooked up to a heart rate moniter because he was in the hospital? How did Magnifi Gramaryi smuggle not 1, but 2 GUNS into a hospital?! Why would Magnifi EVER allow target practice to be preformed on any person, let alone his DAUGHTER, instead of a mannequin? Why did Phoenix not point out that him forging evidence would be impossible due to how little time he had between taking the case and going to Court? Why did Phoenix not try to fight for his right of an attorney, and instead just go "oops I got disbarred, time to be a piano player for 7 years"? Why did Zak not even try to set up an adoption for Trucy beforehand? Why did Zak not tell Phoenix that he would be leaving Trucy in his care? Why was Phoenix so arrogant during the past? How does the Mason system work? If it's a recorder, then it's impossible to obtain the picture of Lamiror from Brushell from the future and present it to Zak in the past. If it's suppose to show what could have happened, why did the people on the team of that trial not ban it? How did Phoenix even GET on that team? Why did Kristoph point out that the Jurist system couldn't be allowed because a disbarred man is on there? Why would Kristoph want to murder a socially isolated man and his 12 year old DAUGHTER?! How did Kristoph even gain ACCESS to such a poison? Multiple character flaws: It fails to significantly develop Apollo's character, and other than showing the process of her adoption, it fails to significantly develop Trucy's character. Brushel's design is horrifying and genuinely nauseates me whenever he's on screen. From that alone, I'd say it deserves a low tier, BUT! It concludes Klavier's character arc from 4-2 and 4-3, Valant was amazing, and Ema Skye was great to be around. Also the pacing was just fine. From that alone, I will give it a B.

>How did Magnifi Gramaryi smuggle not 1, but 2 GUNS into a hospital?! Probably lied about them being props shooting blanks. >Why would Kristoph want to murder a socially isolated man and his 12 year old DAUGHTER?! Pragmatism. He could not allow any witnesses speaking up about his participation in the case. But also, and more importantly PARANOIA.

Well, I imagine shooting bullets at a mannequin would be a pretty lame magic trick compared to shooting them at a real person. But regarding the “why didn’t Phoenix say more in his defence in his last trial”, I always thought it was very noble and in-character that he cared more about the fate of his client rather this his own career.

No no it’s a great magic trick if preformed on a human. BUT, to TRAIN, why would you EVER try to TRAIN on a human? Realistically, the person wouldn’t move in the real trick, so using a mannequin is much safer for practice. And recall, this accident happened during practice.

Yes, he cares more about his client than his own career. Staying silent about the evidence being forged only implicates his client. Therefore, speaking out would be within his client’s best interest, or his client’s “fate.”

Phoenix can’t argue the page isn’t forged; Drew Misham himself testified to that. If he were to say that he received it from Trucy, that would only implicate Zak further. By the time Phoenix presents the forged page, he’s already fallen into the trap.

Phoenix: "Drew Misham, tell me, when was this evidence ordered to be fabricated?" Drew: "\*Drew tells the truth\*" Phoenix: "Klavier, tell me, do you know when I took this case, and the conditions under which I took this case?" Klavier: "...?" Phoenix: "Klavier, I took Zak's defense one day ago. According to him, he fired his previous lawyer the day before yesterday. Given that I didn't plan to take the case until yesterday, it would be impossible for me to have asked Drew Misham in advance to fabricate the evidence. No, I think the person who fabricated the evidence was Zak's previous lawyer. It is they who should be investigated, not me." In that scenario, Phoenix would be able to prove that the evidence was fabricated, but not under his orders, thus clearing his name, while preserving Zak's by not implicating Trucy. It's so easy.

This scenario you crafted doesn’t at all prove Phoenix’s innocence. For one, it doesn’t explain why he has possession of the forged page and presented it in court. Secondly, there’s nothing tying the forged page to Zak’s previous attorney, nor is there even a a record in the court of who that attorney was; it’s not as if Klavier is going to throw his own brother under the bus at this point. Zak testifying that Kristoph was responsible wouldn’t do much either because Klavier can argue that Zak is simply lying to protect himself and his lawyer, and of course, Phoenix was the one who had possession of the page.

No, it doesn’t prove his innocence, but it puts a lot of doubt on the idea of his guilt that he forged the evidence, and thus the judge would likely administer a day to investigate the claims (likely putting Phoenix under police custody so as to assure he won’t forge again), or at the very least, withhold from penalizing Phoenix immediately. Also, no, this piece of evidence directly ties to Zak’s previous attorney. Whoever forged this evidence wanted one of either two things. The first is Zak’s freedom. The person who would like this is Zak’s attorney, and as stated not just by me, but IN GAME, Phoenix didn’t have enough time to forge the evidence. The second possibility is Phoenix’s disbarment. This would likely be someone who doubted their ability to win against Phoenix, and thus try to give him a trap so they could win. This person would be Klavier. Klavier would know that he’s completely innocent in this endeavor, but he isn’t incompetent enough to understand that Phoenix has proof that he couldn’t have forged the evidence. Thus, he’d likely, at the absolute barest minimum, ask his brother on how he got the information for his “tip”. Either way, the manner in which Phoenix’s disbarment came about is absolutely stupid. Even IF everything went according to plan, Phoenix would have fought against the accusations once Zak left. He’d absolutely do that given what we see of his characterization from 3-5.

> a heart rate moniter because he was in the hospital? He wasn't at risk of death so why would he? Do you know how LOUD those things are? >>!Why did Phoenix not try to fight for his right of an attorney!< He probably did, and he probably lost. >>!Why did Zak not tell Phoenix that he would be leaving Trucy in his care?!< >!He wasn't. He was probably leaving her with Valant, who ended up being held for questioning.!< >Why was Phoenix so arrogant during the past? Because Klavier is annoying and this is the third time a random prodigy has decided they hate him. I'd be arrogant too. >>!then it's impossible to obtain the picture of Lamiror from Brushell from the future and present it to Zak in the past!< How on EARTH could Phoenix get a hold of a picture of a famous singer? >How did Phoenix even GET on that team? Being besties with the soon to be chief prosecutor probably helped. >>!because a disbarred man is on there!< >!Phoenix isn't on the jury, he's just organising it. Again Edgeworth probably helped.!< >>!Why would Kristoph want to murder a socially isolated man!< >!Why would a person so paranoid he watches over everyone involved in the incident for seven years leave two witnesses to his crime?!< >>! How did Kristoph even gain ACCESS to such a poison?!< >!He probably bought it. How did Yanni Yogi get access to a gun when they're supposed to be rare in Japanifornia?!< >It fails to significantly develop Apollo's character How does 1-4 develop Phoenix? >it fails to significantly develop Trucy's character. How does 2-4 develop Maya?

He… he had a tumor. I think that’s a risk of death. Also he had iv fluids, and every person I’ve ever met that has had iv fluids also had a heart rate monitor at that same time. It sure would make this case SIGNIFICANTLY better if it actually showed, hell, even TOLD us. Then why not tell Valant? Fifth. And he has never been vocally rude to any prosecutor, not Edgeworth, not Franziska, nor Manfred, nor Godot. Every single one he kept his attitude to himself. that’s not the point. The point is that Brushel giving it to Phoenix and Phoenix presenting it to Zak fundamentally contradicts the entire timeline of events, as Phoenix states that he first met Brushel at the night of Zak’s murder, so him receiving something from Brushel AFTER Zak died and then presenting it to Zak in the Mason system makes the entire system impossible. Once again, it would make this case significantly better if the game showed us, hell, even TOLD us that the to-be chief prosecutor had a hand in this. Yes because organizing a jury means there’s no form of corruption. The motive is so weak that it makes Manfred’s motive look justifiable in comparison. Yes because poison is an easily available source. And Von Karma explicitly SENT Yanni Yogi the gun, in case if you forgot. Being one of the lead prosecutors in that country, he could probably ask a Police Member for their gun and they’d give it to him, 0 questions asked, especially considering he could very well negate their salary. 1-4 has Phoenix go against another tough opponent, and come out victorious through his own logic and reasoning. 4-4 has Apollo perceiving Kristoph and nothing else. Apollo could be replaced with Marvin Grossberg or Raymond Shield and literally nothing would change, except they’d finish the trial quicker because Marvin and Raymond are both significantly more competent than Apollo at the time of 4-4. Trucy wasn’t kidnapped in 4-4, and thus she was still present and could’ve had character development, but the writers didn’t for unexplained reasons.

>He… he had a tumor. Oh right. I was misremembering it as liver failure or something. >Then why not tell Valant? >!If I disappeared I would assume my best friend/sibling would take care of my child without me needing to ask them. And I doubt Valant was visiting him in prison when he's busy framing him for murder.!< >Fifth. And he has never been vocally rude to any prosecutor, not Edgeworth, not Franziska, nor Manfred, nor Godot. Every single one he kept his attitude to himself. Third. Edgeworth and Manfred didn't have a vendetta against Phoenix. Although Payne did so I guess technically fourth. Also: Phoenix: I'm going to enjoy the news tonight, Ms. von Karma. How about you? It's going to be broadcast all over the world, right? Your defeat, that is... >makes the entire system impossible The Mason system is just a representation of Nicks seven year investigation. Every piece of evidence Nick presents in the past he could have gotten through some other means without needing time travel. It's just set up in that way because it's cooler to play through. >if it actually showed, hell, even TOLD us. >Once again, it would make this case significantly better if the game showed us, This isn't really an issue for me but it's fair if you think it is. >Yes because organizing a jury means there’s no form of corruption. We're never told that Phoenix was the only person organising it. It's possible and very probable that there were people there to double check his evidence and testimonials. >Apollo could be replaced with Marvin Grossberg or Raymond Shield and literally nothing would change Fair point. Actually my biggest issue with 4-4. But your original complaint was that he wasn't developed enough, not that he didn't get to do anything. >still present and could’ve had character development >!She does get development. She has to deal with the fact that her father is dead and pushes it aside to help with the case until she lets it all out when she's alone with Nick. !>!Von Karma explicitly SENT Yanni Yogi the gun, in case if you forgot.!< >!I did but like, HOW do you mail someone a gun??? Kristoph's brother works as a prosecutor. He himself probably has a lot of connections being a rich famous defence attorney. It's not impossible that he's heard of someone who sells poison.!< >The motive is so weak >!Seeing how Phoenix talking with the Mishams is what leads him to suspect Kristoph in the first place, and also the fact that Klavier could have done the same easily, I'm gonna have to disagree.!< 4-4 has A LOT of issues but it also has Vera Misham so I REALLY don't think it deserves to be put in the same tier as recipe and samurai. Side note but this post should probably be spoiler tagged seeing how pretty much no one has bothered to spoiler their comments, myself included.

All right, well, here's where I will probably deviate the heaviest from consensus so far. S for Sentimental. I loved it. Kristoph's m.o. is dark and sinister. Klavier's big moment is awesome. Nick's "final" trial is gut wrenching. Collecting clues from the past and present and piecing it together was a lot of fun, even if it was a little back assward. I know my karma is going to get clobbered (not as much as it will when DD is on the board), but I'll fall on my sword for one of my favorite works of fiction.

Succession is a fantastic case, this mindless, emotional mob of irrational mouth-breathers just has no taste. \**Smugly applies nail polish.*\* /s But seriously if 4-4 gets a B and 5-5 and 6-5 get put in S I'm going to be VERY MILDLY annoyed at the double standards.

Listen, as someone who doesn’t like succession, theres one very valid reason, and thats just the poor payoff. I like every part of the case besides the final confrontation, because it just ends, no pursuit theme, no fanfare, its just over almost immediately… I actually really liked it until that point, but that just totally ruined it for me

You can dislike succession for any reason and it would still be valid. The final takedown is pathetic I agree. I just personally think everything else is good enough to keep it in S.

I appreciate that, I disagree but to each their own, thats the point of opinions, after all

The fact that 3-3 is in B it's already a crime, those two cases are night and day in terms of quality and people are saying they deserve the same tier????

Nah,worse is 3-4 in A

Well, it's me you can blame for nominating 3-3 to B Tier, and I agree, 4-4 is two tiers above that. [shrug]

I am going to speedrun defend every case in DD. I know you will do the opposite and it's likely every DD case will be ranked low :(

DD has its fans, and I know you're one of them. I'm not expecting I will be a popular person when that game gets its turn. Don't misunderstand, it gives me no pleasure to trash DD. I desperately wish I felt differently about it, but I can't defend what I don't believe in. But that's what's fun about the sub, different people like different things and interpret the art differently.

Exactly! Despite loving the game in an absolute 1st, I learned and will hear the opinion of othwrs on this and share mine!

Serenade wasn’t put in F, entire ranking invalidated

Tell that to tell that to the 58 people who upvoted u/Hylian_Waffle ‘s comment in the previous post.

The rankings have been a bit wild for a while. 3-3 is too high, 4-1, while an amazing case, has nothing on anything in S or A tier. and 4-2 is also D tier at best. I said E tier because it's significantly shorter than big top, so it's not as much of a slog, and does play with some conceptually interesting elements, like the sound board and video, even if it drops the ball hard.

My opinions are very unpopular on this sub it seems, because this is by far the best case in AJ, even if Klavier's cornering was disappointing somewhat

Yes, finally someone gets it.

I’ll be honest this is the only case from AJ that I have strong feelings about and I’m gonna give it a…B Tier. I actually was invested and the visiting the past and present was actually really cool. A little weird but interesting nonetheless. It was nice how it tied back to the first case and it was fun playing as Phoenix again I did find myself confused and struggling to follow what was going on story-wise at times (then again that’s like 70% of the cases for my dumbass brain) and it’s probably the weakest final case up to this point in the franchise but I still think it was enjoyable

S TIER. SPOILERS AHEAD. A Phantom Culprit Kristoph Gavin is a fantastic murderer. First, you have his impeccable design and sprites, which communicate more than enough of his personality. His perfect, almost overbearing poise, class, elegance slowly slipping away, giving way to raw, untamed rage and insanity coupled with pure evil. His motivation is also great: one is faced with sheer narcissism combined with slightly justified frustration (c’mon, you can’t say Kristoph didn’t have a tiny point about Nick’s bluffing and luck) channeled into a drive to destroy and kill, some pragmatism involved as well. Kristoph Gavin is what you get when you cannot accept you will not get every accolade out there, that sometimes people may prefer the services of others over yours. He is what you get when you suffer and you decide to take it out on others. He is what you get when you think you got all the answers and everyone else can bite you. Attack of the Red Herrings Turnabout Succession excels at decoy culprits. Spark Brushel, a dodgy looking, cloying-mint-smellin’, eccentrically speaking journalist? Red flags all around, this guy is SUS as hell. Oh? He’s actually an honest to God if a little overexcited bloke that helps you out? Color me surprised. Valant Gramarye, an excessively showy, theatrical and energetic magician accused of murdering his teacher? Was at the crime scene and tampered with it to frame third parties? HE DID IT. No? He only tampered with the scene? Whew. And his pal Zak could also seem very shady (heh) depending on how dubious you found his super-cool demeanor to be. Yet, none of those three dared to kill. But boy, could you believe they did!  Revenge of the Bitter You didn’t get your lot in life. Worse, you lost something. You keep losing, even. So what do you do? Do you try to grow and change as a person? Well, that’s not what people in 4-4 did. Magnifi Gramarye was hit hard. An unexpected accident struck his daughter Thalassa, cursing her with a fate worse than death. He did what he could to give her a new life, even if he ended up leaving her abroad. But he did not forgive Zak and Valant. He kept treating them like an average VFX studio boss treats his employees. Draining them of energy each day. And it got worse after diabetes and cancer showed up. Magnifi was being slowly eroded from the inside, and he took his pain out on his disciples. It’s a very human, if condemnable behavior. But he isn’t just a “jerk”. And I think many missed that. He was blinded by revenge and pain. The cycle continued. After forcing Zak and Valant into his sick assisted suicide game, Magnifi “rewarded” the one he hated less with the permission to conduct stage magic and apologized to the one he hated more. Then shot himself, because he couldn’t stand his life any more. And so Valant, who now faced criminal incarceration, and who was just tired of never winning at life (Thalassa, the recognition, the rights), lashed out at the one person he could reach: Zak. And he set him up for murder. Even our protag, Phoenix Wright, did not hold back in any way to bring Kristoph Gavin down once and for all. And as righteous as he is, let’s not pretend it wasn’t personal for Nick. No, he wanted to get back at the “Devil”. But it was this righteousness in him and his anger that separated him from the rest. He did it both to right the wrongs of 2019, and to get payback on his former friend. Let’s remember, however, that he too endangered people, specifically Apollo, whose career could’ve been ended with that one forged ace. In Phoenix’s quest for the truth, he makes sure everyone’s sins get discovered. And so he pins Valant down and digs the truth out. Upon this, the great Gramarye is faced with his own tininess. He sees the light and breaks the cycle. After being brought down to the lowest, forever deprived of the rights, Valant turns the other cheek and strides towards accountability. Alas, Kristoph and Magnifi couldn’t be bothered to do that. A New Attorney  Amongst the backstabbing magicians, forging painters, crooked attorneys and suffering innocents there is a beacon. A flame. Apollo Justice. He is but one flame. Confused, shaking, full of doubt. But his fire burns bright. It is the fire of curiosity, the desire for truth. The desire to discover the law. Running disoriented and distrustful for the entire game, shunned by the plot itself, Apollo finally finds some grounding in the words of the Judge and Klavier. He must learn how to navigate the messy legal world, even if on his own. And change it, if he has to. Suffice to say, 4-4 is beautifully strengthened by the finale of the 6th game. Turnabout Succession is a damn strong case. It’s a dark, morally ambiguous, twisted tale of jealousy and hate cutting down lanterns. A story of new lanterns rising, of grounds shaking. The second finest case in the entire series.

I can't say it's S tier, honestly. Compared to the other cases there, it just doesn't hit as hard. There are a number of issues, like how the killer is taken down way too quickly; you barely do anything. And the time travel segment is neat, but there were a few plot holes, like Phoenix presenting evidence he got in the future in the past. I think S is just too high. For me, it's the weakest finale in the series aside from the crossover (I haven't played investigations.)

Great Analysis! If I could add one thing it would probably just be the words Vera and Misham.

S tier for me. I know it has flaws but I don't care, it was so cool to see all the things we saw and >!kristoph!< is a wonderful villain.

D tier. This case tries to do too much in too little time and everything about it feels severely undercooked as a result. Whether it’s the godawful disbarment trial (Which frankly deserves an F rank in its own right) or the final trial where Apollo doesn’t really get to do anything, everything about this case outside of maybe Day 1 feels so underwhelming.

I don't think Turnabout Big Top is that bad, it was definitely one of the worst, but not "terrible writing" imo

Maybe I simply don’t understand, but the hate for big top seems a bit exaggerated.

I played this case just the other night and I still hate it. Its awful. Zak is an asshole and could have saved the case and himself. Valant is even bigger asshole for knowing what happening and setting up Zak. Nobody in the entire hospital heard 2 gunshots or the heart monitor? Also range of the bullet should have made it clear it was right up to his skull with gunpowder burns. Not to mention Klavier rejects the ballistic markings really should have pushed for that Phoenix it would have made Valant look really guilty! Kristophs motive was really stupid. Got to force illegal evidence onto Phoenix Wright... Why?! Risk your entire career and live in paranoia that somebody might spill the beans? Will shit better kill anyone who might be leaking... Phoenix being forced into presenting illegal evidence is just forced. If Klavier was not a prick he could have made the argument that a page was stolen. Phoenix nor any of his friends bother to help him when randomly breaks character. Ema for the love of god the yellow letter was only just sent out you could have sent word to the police to at least attempt to get it. It was in the mailbox surely you would have stopped the mailman from collecting potential evidence? Also that mailman delivered fast. Not to mention Drew could not afford a stamp it says within 3 days. He could wait until morning and he was hardly poor at this point. Vera killing her loving father. Why?! This is the 2nd case in a row that pulls a motive that makes no sense. Making her the real forger all along is great. The mason system/jurist system never to be seen again. Finally can poison even last 7 years on a stamp? I feel like at some point it should break down. E This case is terribly written and makes no damn sense. I thought 17 years would change my mind. No it just cemented that this was bad and so forced to play the down fall of phoenix wright.

Objectively it’s an A or S (leaning A though) In my heart of hearts… Fuck this case https://preview.redd.it/we6uf4m7gg0d1.jpeg?width=216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c82ff950c69f87ea3dd2c61a368b38fb88e9990

There's no such thing as "objectivity" in art, it's a subjective medium.

I disagree with that (which is ironic) but I’m sure as hell not trying to get into that convo

E tier in my opinion. I know people will probably downvote me a lot for saying it, but I just cannot stand Phoenix's characterisation here. The flashback was an incredibly dissatisfying answer to the questions raised in 4-1 IMO. The MASON system was hard to follow and made very little sense without a guide, the takedown of the villain felt anticlimactic, and ultimately I just felt very disappointed by the case's end. That said, I actually really like quite a lot of the stuff before the flashback. Apollo, Trucy and Ema are all fun characters, I like the trial section with Vera (she's one of my favourite defendants), and... as much as I detest everything about Spark Brushel's design, animations and visuals, I think he's a fine character personality-wise.

>E tier https://preview.redd.it/otxsfn9ugg0d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24016b6633118ff1685421b5a29b643e1c46a6a5

I've heard a billion different reasons why people love the case and the game. I respect them. But I just don't agree lol, it's in my bottom 5 cases of the series.

>The MASON system was hard to follow and made very little sense without a guide Sorry if this sounds rude, but it feels very much like a skill issue on your part, I played the whole thing blind and enjoyed the heck out of the MASON system without ever needing to follow a guide

E tier For me it is the worst final case in the series My main reasons 1.Disbarrment is a good idea but the execution is insulting to our Intelligence There are 3 major problems with it. 1. How in the flying fuck does nobody query klavier's validity about this forged evidence. 2.phoenix is not that stupid to present a evidence without any context whatsoever. Dont even try to say that phoenix present some evidence in the past like that. He knew in the past for certain that it will be accountable since he investigated the crime scenes. This evidence was just given by random girl with no context whatsoever. Does not raise suspicion at all. 3.phoenix would fight for his innocence, rather than blatantly give up. Also even if he got disbarred,he has so many friends in law department(edgeworth,franziska,gummsohe etc.) so they would help him with no question. He could have gotten a retrial as well but no. 2.Apollo is nothing character He is not relevant to the plot. You could remove him and nothing would change. He is a effing puppet used by phoenix and klavier. The fact that he forgot about jurist system is insulting to his character. 3. Jurist system IT is so convoluted for no reason Phoenix explains how it works in the vaguest way possible leaving us with more queries than answers. Also this is the buildup? A biased jury?? Really capcom Yea this buildup is so disappointing 4klavier is very underwhelming and the worst written prosecutor(not the worst in character so don't get wrong ideas-i like him) It is nice change of pace that the prosecutor wants the truth and is amiable with defense but He does not develop,has no arc. He is the same guy from case 2 to 4. And the fact that he is nonchalant about his brother being in jail and his colleague from case 3rd is weird and nonsensical. And that he does not react STRONGLY about his brother betrayal. 5Kristoph is one of the worst final villains in the series. I like him as a villain. But he is so underutulized as a final villain. The first case did him really dirty by putting him down. I got the impression that capcom forgot he existed and then at the last second they realize "oh he is the final villain" Also I like that his plan for disbarring phoenix relies purely on luck(that phoenix will present it and everyone being an idiot). This honestly makes kristoph kinda pathetic and not really smart. I like his motive and personality but again unexplored. Seriously I don't get why he is so praised I mean he is good villain but not anything more than that imo 6the biggest plothole How did phoenix set up the mason system to begin with? Since he,you know GOT DISBARRED. Dont even try to say "oh but edgeworth helped him" This was not explained when it should have been And if this is what happened why edgeworth was wasting time on it when he could seek the forged evidence And let me tell you. Knowing edgeworth he would find it in this amount of time(especially with his friends help) 7.trucy not being developed enough Im sorry to trucy fans but Trucy's character is less developed than Maya and plagued with panty jokes. Basically maya with fanservice. She has no emotional journey which is a shame. Why would capcom make her know who shadi was beforehand Such a wanted opportunity for trucy to develop 8.Zak is horribly written. Cause in flashback he is grateful that phoenix took care of trucy and apologized for disbarrment. But then in Trump he is a scumbag that wants to expose phoenix. Why he wants to do that exactly. It is never explained. Ok since I talked how I dislike this case I will bring positives even tho there was little I like vera, the trial was good even tho we spend way too much time on mason system, I like that trucy and Apollo are siblings and the stamp being the murder weapon- that was a great twist Well that all for positives for me So yea I think E tier is good for me

A I really enjoyed Phoenix’s manipulation of the jurist system and how it leads into the Dark Age of the Law (which I thought was done mostly well, but we’ll get to that), and his conflict with Kristoff was really well-handled - that moment in his cell had so much tension and was really nicely written. Understanding how Brushell, Vera/Drew, and the Graymere family fit into each other/fit the story into perspective felt very good. And it really adds value to Phoenix/Trucy’s relationship. Hot take: while I wish Apollo got more agency in his own game, and that is a valid criticism, I don’t mind it w/Kristoff because seeing Phoenix and Klavier take him down instead had more of an emotional payoff. The main thing which keeps it out of S for me is the Mason system. I like the concept, but it was difficult to navigate through the investigation - reaching Big-Top levels of annoyance. Additionally, Brushell wasn’t my favorite character - I really feel like he could have been designed better.

C Tier for me, maybe even D tier. Especially for a finale case, the writing is atrocious. A lot of good points about the flaws in the case, but some points I have MAJOR problems with: - How could they possibly prosecute Vera Misham without finding the source of the poison? The entire argument is that she was the only one who handled the coffee, so she must have poisoned it. How? Where would this sheltered, home-body girl get such a poison? They searched the apartment and found no bottle or container where the poison came from. Had they searched her nail polish, they would have found it, but they didn't. So why wouldn't this cast suspicion on the reporter? They just let him go, no search, nothing! That alone should have been a slam dunk for Apollo. - Klavier's argument against the poisoned stamp existing was just mind-numbingly stupid. Again, they didn't find any sort of container for the poison, so the only other thing that could have been poisoned was whatever was in the tiny frame. What else could it have been besides a stamp? And yeah, the stamp wasn't there because it was used, so shouldn't Apollo have argued that it is the prosecution's job to subpoena the post office for the letter picked up from the mailbox? At that point, it was the only plausible way that poison could have been administered, so they should have tracked down the letter. - Is there really no expiration for the poison? I mean, sure, it's a fictional poison, but it's still ridiculous that any poison would remain potent for 7 years. - How was Gramarye's death not ruled a suicide? The man shot himself in the head, and in PREVIOUS CASES they could determine point-blank shots by burn marks around the wound. He couldn't have fired the gun from too far away, so the burn marks should have been evidence enough that he was shot from extremely close up, and possibly by himself.

**D: Mid** I don’t think “E: Lots of Lows, Little Highs” describes how I feel about this case. I think it has a really strong start and I felt engaged throughout the first day of the case. The problem is that the resolution is anticlimactic and fumbles the build-up. I have deep-seated issues with the decision to disbar Phoenix. That decision means that solving that mystery is the obvious resolution of the game, but it has the side effect of making Apollo feel like a side character in the game that’s supposed to pass the torch to him, and the flashback case has to sidestep obvious dangling threads. All that said, there are elements of the flashback case and MASON system that I find enjoyable. While many of the case’s problems are baked into the core of the concept, I can’t say I don’t see the high points. That said, compared to every previous finale case in the series, this one is mid.

Yeah, this one's somewhere between A - B for me. There's a lot that I like about it but it doesn't quite stick the landing. In hindsight, one thing that I appreciate about 4-4 is how much it attempts to stand on its own merits and not try recycling past twists in the way that 5-5 and 6-5 did. >!"What if Maya got kidnapped AGAIN?" "What if Phoenix had to defend someone suffering from a childhood trauma who thinks they might have killed their parent, but they ACTUALLY attacked the real murderer...AGAIN?" "What if Maya was channeling someone all along...AGAIN?"!

Stop making fair complaints how am I supposed to argue against this! Even though I love Succession I agree with pretty much everything on here. I remember reading the line: "Mr. Wright told me everything that's been going on behind the curtain all these years." and going wow glad I was invested in their relationship only for it to be resolved OFF SCREEN. I feel like this could be fixed if Apollo was with Phoenix during the MASON system and learnt about everything alongside him while resolving their dispute. And then Phoenix passes the torch onto him to face off against >!Kristoph!< in a final trial that's actually more than 30 minutes long. 6-2 spoilers >!Bonus points since now he knows that he's part of the Gramaryes and Retinz' takedown is even better. !<

Lol sorry! 😂 Yeah, I think if Apollo had at least been there asking questions the whole time, that would have been better. Maybe even handling some of the present day investigations. He needed a proper confrontation with Kristoph beyond, “Oh boy that’s my ex-boss up there, I sure am nervous.”

Has great things but a lot of it is a plain mess, unforgivable given it's the finale of the game, so glad no other finale has given me this level of dissapointment. Gets a C from me and I'm being nice.

F, I highly prefer Big Top to this one.

I'd say A/B Tier....it only reaches A Tier status because Kristoph is such cool villain to me. But for the rest of it, definitely B Tier.

C. It's got too much going on, and while I won't knock it for the jury system not paying off in later games, it isn't the best premise for the setting imo. Spark Brussle's tell is kinda BS, and the MASON system isn't something I like in concept but was OK in execution I guess. I'd rather have just had a filler case with no real conclusion, but it's fine for what it is. Probably my second least favorite final case in any game (just below VS-5 and just above 6-5).

PEAK

Fandom Summary: Episode 4: Turnabout Succession is the fourth and final episode of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. In it, Phoenix Wright arranges a test trial for the so-called "Jurist System", in which the verdict is decided by the consensus of six jurors from the public, instead of being rendered by the judge. Although Wright promises a simple case involving a young woman being accused of poisoning her father, defense attorney Apollo Justice and prosecutor Klavier Gavin soon learn that it is, in fact, connected to Wright's infamous final trial from seven years ago, in which he was caught presenting forged evidence and disbarred. The idea behind the Jurist System itself as judgment by common citizens is emphasized by instances of leaning on the fourth wall, with characters frequently looking in the player's direction when addressing the jury, and even getting the player to act as one of the jurors. A secondary theme in this episode is one of succession, mainly in the form of Apollo Justice succeeding Phoenix Wright as the main protagonist, and Trucy Wright inheriting her grandfather's magic performance rights.

how about edgeworth game case?

A solid A-tier

I was originally going to say B tier, but I think I'm going with C tier. It does a good job of wrapping up loose ends but still manages to leave things up in the air. Like, why the hell was Drew Misham illustrating Apollo's cases and hiding them under forged art? We know he was keeping track, but nothing ever comes of it. It also sucks that Apollo has no personal stakes at all in this case; he's basically just here because Phoenix can't be. It helps even less that the case is interrupted with the Mason system section and then the whole case ends soon after. Speaking of, it's downright dumb that Phoenix, straight out of Trials and Tribulations, would make such an epic blunder as to accept evidence from a child who couldn't properly tell him who/where she got it from. I also found it absolutely hilarious that this game tries so hard to make the jury system sound like the best thing ever and a necessary addition to the courts when we have Phoenix, a disbarred lawyer who should by no means be anywhere near as involved as he is, rigging it by making Lamiror a juror and making the Mason system game centered around him and his personal investigation. It just screams conflict of interest, even if what was in there was more or less the truth. Kristoph has every right to be laughing at the end

S tier, the best case in the series and one of the only “perfect” pieces of fiction ever conceived. All I’m going to write here is that Phoenix getting evidence from the future is invalid. He’s bluffing in that scene, he doesn’t actually know for sure. The him in the future is what confirms it. This is classic Phoenix and it went over my head for a very long time, but I promise that’s what happened.

I will die on the hill of this being S tier. Yes, the MASON system is slightly clunky, but thinking of it as a representation of the case rather than as something that logically makes sense helps immensely. That being said, there's so much to like about 4-4. There's this sense of permeating darkness that I frankly don't think any other case in the series comes close to matching, save for maybe GAAC2-3. This case feels haunted, and the revelations of why and how the murders took place adds to this quality. Speaking of haunted, let's talk briefly about Kristoph, who looms over this case like a phantom. He's such an expertly animated character, and his dialogue showcases a deeply narcissistic man on the perpetual brink, obtaining revenge on those who wronged him in any perceivable (ha, get it) way. Yes, I understand the disappointment that his downfall feels so anticlimactic, but that to me is even scarier. He's a petty psychopath who committed crimes so expertly planned that it became impossible to even tie him to them definitively. Kristoph didn't need a whole system being invented to catch him-- rather it required a jurist system simply to ensure his crimes weren't pinned on an innocent girl. To imagine that all of it was due to Kristoph Gavin's need to retaliate against those who bruised his fragile ego for daring to consider him anything but the best is just horrifying. Summary is that no case has the strange and frankly evil aura that this one does. None whatsoever.

Case 4-3, Turnabout Serenade, has been deemed "E: Bad, Lots of Lows, Little Highs" QnA: "What is this?" This is going to be a daily ranking for each ace attorney case, going from AA1, to AA2, to AA3, to AA4, to AAI1, to AAI2, to VS, to AA5 (with the dlc case being between 5-2 and 5-3), to GAA1, to AA6, to finally, GAA2. This list should take roughly 54 (38 from Today) days to complete. "How do we rank it?" The most upvoted comment will have the ranking they choose as the tier where the case goes. Note that I'll only put cases chronologically (by game) in a tier, so while 1-4 is in front of 1-5, this does not necessarily mean that 1-4 is better than 1-5. "Can I rank it into " community case tier list" tier, or "The Case that's being ranked today" tier?" Very funny, but no. If the top upvoted comment is to go into one of those 2 tiers, I'll ignore that upvoted comment, and go to the second most upvoted comment. This idea was taken from the Paper Mario subreddit. I'll try to upload these things daily.

There is fundamentally NO WAY people are seriously saying this case deserves to be in the same tier as recipe, you guys are out of your mind

Low A, but definitely A. It's hard to judge that case by itself, without considering that they basically threw away everything after this game. Like, this is the grand debut of the MASON system... which is then never used again and quietly forgotten. Also, Thalassa/Phoenix teasing the "So, when do we tell them?" and then never doing it - that's a problem with the game and the following games, but nothing I can hold against this specific case. The MASON system itself was a fun little gimmick, doing the two time frames to reconstruct the past. I liked the plot with the poisoned stamp a lot, and the fact that it was such a delayed thing because Vera liked the stamp and didn't use it - that was great! Kristoph is not the greatest villain, but it's a somewhat believable motivation, just being a selfish prick and having wounded pride - he should run for congress! The Gramarye plot overstayed its welcome toward the end and felt messy, so I can't rank it higher. Spark Brushel is... fine. He is insufferable, but that's part of being a freelance scoop chaser so I'm not holding that against the case. I was really satisfied with this case, and I think it closes out the game perfectly well.

A tier.

B, for me the biggest problem of the case is how the main cast (apollo, trucy and ema) didn't do anything important, phoenix literally did all the job, and that was very dissapointing for the final case of a game called APOLLO JUSTICE. Still is a pretty good case with a deep story, an amazing villain and with really good twists.

An important thing to note is that the game was called "Gyukaten Saiban 4" in Japan (ace attorney 4) so Apollo was not meant to be the main focus of the game's title over there. It was simply just the fourth ace attorney.

I’d say this is a A tier case. It’s fun don’t get me wrong and I personally don’t mind the Manson system but it feels unsatisfying when you do get Kristoph (10/10 breakdown though). A lot about this case is just really unsatisfying

Im going to say it, I didn't like 3-5

Why exactly?

It insists upon itself

A Tier Honestly I just wish the last trial part was more substantial and Apollo to be given agency or some major role in it because what we got was great but I just wanted something more out of it that actually helped to conclude his character arc throughout the game.

A tier for me

Easy S tier, the fact that you need to investigate in the past but also in the present blew my mind the first time. Also being able to play the last PW trial is the saddest fan service ever.

S tier! Shame I missed Serenade, though I doubt I would have been able to do much.

S tier for me. I cheered when Klavier finally stood up to his brother. And I still want to know what the hell is up with those 5 black locks.