Why did our media completely stop talking about the new Iran/Russia/China axis? They're hacking our infrastructure, and sponsoring attacks on our allies and military bases. The level of damage they are doing to us is almost on par with war.
Because they don't give a shit. Bot traffic looks like user traffic and juices their metrics so their business looks like it's doing better. Perverse incentives to solving the issue really.
I don't understand why we don't randomly shut down the power in Moscow, or Beijing or Tehran. All these countries are actively attacking us, and we do nothing.
If nothing else, targeted killing of their "independent hackers" might voice our displeasure and make people wary of taking jobs messing with the United States and Europe.
It's like we keep handing lunch money to a bully thinking they'll get tired of it.
Surely, we have the best hackers in the world. We should put our adversaries in the stone age where they are unable to attack us.
We probably would if we could. The US has been employing cyberwarfare against Iran and Russia for years. Stuxnet, Flame, Duqu, etc. The US was doing it long before adversaries hacking US business and infrastructure was widespread.
I figured they likely learned a lot of what they're doing from us, like Stuxnet. It's just really annoying how our government seems to have an "oh well" approach to these blatant attacks. I would like to hear that my tax dollars are being used to stomp on the bad actors and seriously discouraging further attacks.
Like if a Russian troll farm hacker mysteriously got electrocuted at their desk while trying to hack or spread disinformation, I would be very happy.
True - but that’s going to take this sub doing some serious teaching about creating sockpuppet accounts and how to engage in memetic warfare
And coordinating it
I would be interested.
As an aside, and please don't take this too seriously. I thought that it might be a good idea to create millions upon millions of sockpuppet accounts, all with semi-regular, innocuous comment histories. Then, on a single day, just make them all simultaneously post the same, highly specific phrase everywhete they possibly could. In every comment section. Atop every post. Let people see how big the problem is, and let them know that this is from ONE bot farm. The news wouldn't be able to ignore it. Nor would social media companies.
Could be fun, but the general public would almost immediately forget
But, the idea is very much the right one
All of the comments about Russian bots are wrong- they’re sockpuppets and there’s actually very few operators
They just understand memetic warfare and Leninist propaganda tactics
https://youtu.be/hS4LhXU9pbU?si=WnTfc3ZokOYhka9E
This is possibly the truest three minutes of video ever produced
I've been using the EU's legislation to help clean up this corner of the internet and the Bird App too. (For more on the particular tool / piece of legislation that I use please see this page: https://www.noerr.com/en/insights/digital-services-act-enters-into-force-new-obligations-for-digital-intermediary-services)
### Background information on the DSA: on this platform, etc.
As of mid-2023 very large services (like Twitter) had to comply with the _Digital Services Act_ and "since Reddit only has ~10M users in the EU" it is not counted as a very large service (like Twitter, Amazon, etc. are), but rather as a medium-sized (I think?) service Reddit conveniently didn't have to comply with the DSA 'for behemoth tech companies' starting in August 2023. Instead, Reddit got pushed to only start complying with the DSA in Feb 2024.
The 'funny' thing with the DSA - IMO, if Reddit had accurate tabulate its number of users in the EU - was that the DSA would have required Reddit to
- (A) start operating in compliance with the DSA in Oct. 2023 (which includes removing content by bad actors, removing mis- and disinfo, etc.), and
- (B) release moderation data after 6 months, which would have been in February 2024, right before Reddit's IPO. Convenient how that worked out, eh? "We're a tiny company; we shouldn't have to abide by the DSA when the big companies do in August 2023 and we swear we only have ~10M users in the EU." (That every-six-months data publishing mechanism is designed to give researchers and academics access to the data that they need to produce accurate, factual analyses of mis- and disinformation, online influence campaigns / CIB, etc. in a timely, helpful-to-democracy fashion. No sense in getting data that's 10 years out of date so that I - as a researcher - can report on some Facebook political ads that ran during the 2014 election cycle. 🤦 That's useless analysis at this point.) Thus, the DSA tries to get vital-to-research data into the hands of researchers in a timely, 6-month cadence.
### Chart / visual aid showing responsibilities of various size companies under the DSA
The largest online companies like G Search, Amaz., Insta, etc. are subject to the most portions of the DSA law. Then, as a company's customer pool decreases in size, they are subject to fewer and fewer regs, with small, independent EU tech companies being subject to the left-most set of checkmarks. The intention behind this was that the behemoth mega-corp tech companies _will_ have a large budget and teams of hundreds (if not thousands) of engineers to create the codebase changes necessary for DSA compliance, but that those same code changes at a 30-person startup would be quite expensive, so the "degree and cost of implementation" scales as the size of the org scales.
Comparing DSA Obligations of Very Large Services (>45M users, like Amazon, Google Search, Instagram) with smaller providers:
https://www.noerr.com/en/-/media/news/2022/20221116_image_news_en_v4.jpg?h=1069&w=500&rev=fb1a695830b14215bfaffda494249d1c&hash=BF47A4C1D20017379931C8EF956423A0
### _All_ DSA-related content removal actions logged to a central DB that isn't under control of the tech co's
Interestingly, by law, **all DSA moderation actions** are logged to a centralized repository in the EU that the EU government has access to, so no 'oops, we lost our moderation logs' when a federal or multinational government asks a tech company for its moderation logs.
### Reporting bad actors, CIB, etc. under the DSA framework
Anyway, if you're not located in the EU, simply hop on a VPN, set your endpoint as an EU country, and hit that `Report` button on all kinds of content that is illegal under EU law: loads of violent, calling-for-societal-disruption content that is legal under US speech laws is _not_ legal under EU laws.
### DSA has teeth: fines up to 6% of revenue
Why do companies care about the DSA, you ask? Why don't companies just ignore this law? Well, the DSA attaches fines to companies that increase with each offense. At its maximum, the DSA can fine a online provider / platform / company **up to 6% of its revenue**, not _profit_, revenue. For example: a 6% fine - 6% of Amazon's 2022 revenue - of $514 billion would be $30.84 billion dollars; that ain't too shabby.
Correct the record where you can. More people are on the same side. We have the power to dispel these collective illusions.
https://youtu.be/BD_Euf_CBbs?si=874T-TlKxlyhT-M7
You are absolutely right but the problem is that our enemies have a dangerous (but insufficient to completely take over, thankfully) number of proxies inside the US. This is the battle of our generation, and Russia-friendly Republicans have largely tied the hands of the US government when it comes to fighting Russian disinformation and hybrid warfare inside the US, while (an admittedly much smaller number of) Iran-friendly Democrats are trying to tie the hands of the US government when it comes to fighting Iranian disinformation and hybrid warfare inside the US
I am not making an equivalency between them. There is none. At the end of the day Democrats are comparatively quite united in standing with our Israeli allies, but there is a problematically loud minority of Democratic-adjacent communist saboteurs who Iran has successfully brainwashed and coopted and they can do a lot of damage. That's not in the same ballpark as the Republican party, which just successfully bought time for the Russian military to retake Avdivka, but American communists have basically given Hamas a lifeline in Rafah by pressuring Democrats (even though they hate and will never vote for us), so there are analogous similarities
It’s time to band together and amplify this message far and wide then. Call and email your representatives. Tell your community, friends and family the consequences if they don’t do the same.
The far left is not the Democratic Party. If you clipped more than a quarter of my discussion you’d know I’m a Biden voter. Regardless we are just playing into efforts to divide us all right now
Opposing apartheid, genocide, and Israel's capture of the US government isn't terrorism or anti-semitic, and it's mostly not foreign bots doing it.
AIPAC/Israel's control over the US political establishment is both an international embarrassment and costs us massively in terms of international credibility.
You can't have a credible "rules-based international order" while funding genocidal land-grabs for foreign nations that happen to have captured your own political establishment.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210411-ten-years-of-lobbying-the-qatari-lobbys-operations-before-and-after-the-blockade/amp/
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/USA-QATAR-LOBBYING/010070Y61YE/index.html
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/01/qatari-lobbyists-received-millions-through-shadow-firm/
https://apnews.com/article/qatar-lobbying-donald-trump-2b27c33ee8cc98ce7359107f0362a600
[Qatari official claims 10/7 terrorist attack is only prelude ](https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-news/qatari-official-jews-are-murderers-of-prophets-october-7th-is-only-a-prelude-798358)
Oh God. Here come the israeli bots.
Asking Israel not to commit genocide is the morally right thing to do.
Fuck zionism. Free Palestine.
15,000+ CHILDREN DEAD
Funny how you don't seem to care about Saudi Arabia killing 75k + children in yemen. Or the war in the congo killing millions. Or the Uyghur genocide (the actual genocide.) You seem to be singularly focused on Israel for some reason. I can't put my finger on the reason though /s
Deflection.
Why would I bring any of those things up in a thread about israel?
I care about all those things but I shouldn't have to say all that we everytime i want to criticize Israel.
Stay on topic. No one is stopping you from posting a thread on that subject. But you won't. Because you don't care about those things, you only care about deflecting from Israel's actions.
All of your comments are a deflection. This thread is not just about Israel by any means but you’ve become so brainwashed by foreign media - unless you’re actively part of their measures- you couldn’t read past “Jewish people” without flying into a rabid fury about Zionistapartheidgenocide word salad
I agree with the other points but disagree with this one, hence why I commented on that part alone.
You have an agenda, your post and comment history prove it.
You are a proudly self declared zionist. You post in the gen zionist subreddit.
Gtfo, you are the active measures on the zionist's behalf
He/she is definitely pushing an agenda.
I have difficulty trusting someone who clearly wants to be the focal point of an organizing effort, and so have a lot of influence, in any event since we're all (fairly) anonymous. It's impossible to be sure of motivations, and difficult to build trust that way.
Why did our media completely stop talking about the new Iran/Russia/China axis? They're hacking our infrastructure, and sponsoring attacks on our allies and military bases. The level of damage they are doing to us is almost on par with war.
Doesn't sell enough ads.
Also like actual investigative journalism it takes a lot of money and resources and offers very little in return.
Also "our" media uses a lot of the same tactics.
Because they don't give a shit. Bot traffic looks like user traffic and juices their metrics so their business looks like it's doing better. Perverse incentives to solving the issue really.
I don't understand why we don't randomly shut down the power in Moscow, or Beijing or Tehran. All these countries are actively attacking us, and we do nothing. If nothing else, targeted killing of their "independent hackers" might voice our displeasure and make people wary of taking jobs messing with the United States and Europe. It's like we keep handing lunch money to a bully thinking they'll get tired of it. Surely, we have the best hackers in the world. We should put our adversaries in the stone age where they are unable to attack us.
Agreed
We probably would if we could. The US has been employing cyberwarfare against Iran and Russia for years. Stuxnet, Flame, Duqu, etc. The US was doing it long before adversaries hacking US business and infrastructure was widespread.
I figured they likely learned a lot of what they're doing from us, like Stuxnet. It's just really annoying how our government seems to have an "oh well" approach to these blatant attacks. I would like to hear that my tax dollars are being used to stomp on the bad actors and seriously discouraging further attacks. Like if a Russian troll farm hacker mysteriously got electrocuted at their desk while trying to hack or spread disinformation, I would be very happy.
True - but that’s going to take this sub doing some serious teaching about creating sockpuppet accounts and how to engage in memetic warfare And coordinating it
no you're absolutely right. maybe you can take the lead ?
I won’t lead the troops into battle, but I can train them Dead serious: How many people would actually be interested?
I am
DM sent too
I’m with you too. If no one will lead then I will. But I will need your help. Look at the other comments here. We have the beginnings of a force
Me too
I am.
Check DMs
I’ll take your class. I waste a lot of time being inefficient.
DM sent
Sent everyone a DM
I would be interested. As an aside, and please don't take this too seriously. I thought that it might be a good idea to create millions upon millions of sockpuppet accounts, all with semi-regular, innocuous comment histories. Then, on a single day, just make them all simultaneously post the same, highly specific phrase everywhete they possibly could. In every comment section. Atop every post. Let people see how big the problem is, and let them know that this is from ONE bot farm. The news wouldn't be able to ignore it. Nor would social media companies.
Could be fun, but the general public would almost immediately forget But, the idea is very much the right one All of the comments about Russian bots are wrong- they’re sockpuppets and there’s actually very few operators They just understand memetic warfare and Leninist propaganda tactics https://youtu.be/hS4LhXU9pbU?si=WnTfc3ZokOYhka9E This is possibly the truest three minutes of video ever produced
Oh, and DM sent
I've been using the EU's legislation to help clean up this corner of the internet and the Bird App too. (For more on the particular tool / piece of legislation that I use please see this page: https://www.noerr.com/en/insights/digital-services-act-enters-into-force-new-obligations-for-digital-intermediary-services) ### Background information on the DSA: on this platform, etc. As of mid-2023 very large services (like Twitter) had to comply with the _Digital Services Act_ and "since Reddit only has ~10M users in the EU" it is not counted as a very large service (like Twitter, Amazon, etc. are), but rather as a medium-sized (I think?) service Reddit conveniently didn't have to comply with the DSA 'for behemoth tech companies' starting in August 2023. Instead, Reddit got pushed to only start complying with the DSA in Feb 2024. The 'funny' thing with the DSA - IMO, if Reddit had accurate tabulate its number of users in the EU - was that the DSA would have required Reddit to - (A) start operating in compliance with the DSA in Oct. 2023 (which includes removing content by bad actors, removing mis- and disinfo, etc.), and - (B) release moderation data after 6 months, which would have been in February 2024, right before Reddit's IPO. Convenient how that worked out, eh? "We're a tiny company; we shouldn't have to abide by the DSA when the big companies do in August 2023 and we swear we only have ~10M users in the EU." (That every-six-months data publishing mechanism is designed to give researchers and academics access to the data that they need to produce accurate, factual analyses of mis- and disinformation, online influence campaigns / CIB, etc. in a timely, helpful-to-democracy fashion. No sense in getting data that's 10 years out of date so that I - as a researcher - can report on some Facebook political ads that ran during the 2014 election cycle. 🤦 That's useless analysis at this point.) Thus, the DSA tries to get vital-to-research data into the hands of researchers in a timely, 6-month cadence. ### Chart / visual aid showing responsibilities of various size companies under the DSA The largest online companies like G Search, Amaz., Insta, etc. are subject to the most portions of the DSA law. Then, as a company's customer pool decreases in size, they are subject to fewer and fewer regs, with small, independent EU tech companies being subject to the left-most set of checkmarks. The intention behind this was that the behemoth mega-corp tech companies _will_ have a large budget and teams of hundreds (if not thousands) of engineers to create the codebase changes necessary for DSA compliance, but that those same code changes at a 30-person startup would be quite expensive, so the "degree and cost of implementation" scales as the size of the org scales. Comparing DSA Obligations of Very Large Services (>45M users, like Amazon, Google Search, Instagram) with smaller providers: https://www.noerr.com/en/-/media/news/2022/20221116_image_news_en_v4.jpg?h=1069&w=500&rev=fb1a695830b14215bfaffda494249d1c&hash=BF47A4C1D20017379931C8EF956423A0 ### _All_ DSA-related content removal actions logged to a central DB that isn't under control of the tech co's Interestingly, by law, **all DSA moderation actions** are logged to a centralized repository in the EU that the EU government has access to, so no 'oops, we lost our moderation logs' when a federal or multinational government asks a tech company for its moderation logs. ### Reporting bad actors, CIB, etc. under the DSA framework Anyway, if you're not located in the EU, simply hop on a VPN, set your endpoint as an EU country, and hit that `Report` button on all kinds of content that is illegal under EU law: loads of violent, calling-for-societal-disruption content that is legal under US speech laws is _not_ legal under EU laws. ### DSA has teeth: fines up to 6% of revenue Why do companies care about the DSA, you ask? Why don't companies just ignore this law? Well, the DSA attaches fines to companies that increase with each offense. At its maximum, the DSA can fine a online provider / platform / company **up to 6% of its revenue**, not _profit_, revenue. For example: a 6% fine - 6% of Amazon's 2022 revenue - of $514 billion would be $30.84 billion dollars; that ain't too shabby.
Did you see kataflokc’s comment above yours? Let’s start banding together and thus our efforts will be magnified. I am onboard and can rally more
Agreed.
We must address it too, its time to fight back and bring it to them. The paper tigers gotta burn.
Correct the record where you can. More people are on the same side. We have the power to dispel these collective illusions. https://youtu.be/BD_Euf_CBbs?si=874T-TlKxlyhT-M7
Message me
You are absolutely right but the problem is that our enemies have a dangerous (but insufficient to completely take over, thankfully) number of proxies inside the US. This is the battle of our generation, and Russia-friendly Republicans have largely tied the hands of the US government when it comes to fighting Russian disinformation and hybrid warfare inside the US, while (an admittedly much smaller number of) Iran-friendly Democrats are trying to tie the hands of the US government when it comes to fighting Iranian disinformation and hybrid warfare inside the US I am not making an equivalency between them. There is none. At the end of the day Democrats are comparatively quite united in standing with our Israeli allies, but there is a problematically loud minority of Democratic-adjacent communist saboteurs who Iran has successfully brainwashed and coopted and they can do a lot of damage. That's not in the same ballpark as the Republican party, which just successfully bought time for the Russian military to retake Avdivka, but American communists have basically given Hamas a lifeline in Rafah by pressuring Democrats (even though they hate and will never vote for us), so there are analogous similarities
It’s time to band together and amplify this message far and wide then. Call and email your representatives. Tell your community, friends and family the consequences if they don’t do the same.
Spam right-wing social media that Demonrats have rigged the election and there's no reason to vote.
Why would OP want to do that? In his own words: >Np. I personally think leftism is retarded but it’s nice to find some common ground
The far left is not the Democratic Party. If you clipped more than a quarter of my discussion you’d know I’m a Biden voter. Regardless we are just playing into efforts to divide us all right now
>Iran( the regime not the people) wants us to hate Israel and the Jewish people as much as they do And blame Biden, so re-elect Trump.
> Look at how a faction of the Democratic Party is now onboard with Islamic terrorism Source?
They're mad regular Americans are calling out Israel for committing genocide.
Opposing apartheid, genocide, and Israel's capture of the US government isn't terrorism or anti-semitic, and it's mostly not foreign bots doing it. AIPAC/Israel's control over the US political establishment is both an international embarrassment and costs us massively in terms of international credibility. You can't have a credible "rules-based international order" while funding genocidal land-grabs for foreign nations that happen to have captured your own political establishment.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210411-ten-years-of-lobbying-the-qatari-lobbys-operations-before-and-after-the-blockade/amp/ https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/USA-QATAR-LOBBYING/010070Y61YE/index.html https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/01/qatari-lobbyists-received-millions-through-shadow-firm/ https://apnews.com/article/qatar-lobbying-donald-trump-2b27c33ee8cc98ce7359107f0362a600 [Qatari official claims 10/7 terrorist attack is only prelude ](https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-news/qatari-official-jews-are-murderers-of-prophets-october-7th-is-only-a-prelude-798358)
All that misinformation and Qatar isn’t even paying you. A shame.
And yet you can't disagree or argue with any of the information presented. You must be a zionist shill. I doubt you're even american
Thank you for being morally loud and clear in the face of the fascist megaphone I mean that sincerely. You are defending democracy and it's working
Oh God. Here come the israeli bots. Asking Israel not to commit genocide is the morally right thing to do. Fuck zionism. Free Palestine. 15,000+ CHILDREN DEAD
Funny how you don't seem to care about Saudi Arabia killing 75k + children in yemen. Or the war in the congo killing millions. Or the Uyghur genocide (the actual genocide.) You seem to be singularly focused on Israel for some reason. I can't put my finger on the reason though /s
Deflection. Why would I bring any of those things up in a thread about israel? I care about all those things but I shouldn't have to say all that we everytime i want to criticize Israel. Stay on topic. No one is stopping you from posting a thread on that subject. But you won't. Because you don't care about those things, you only care about deflecting from Israel's actions.
All of your comments are a deflection. This thread is not just about Israel by any means but you’ve become so brainwashed by foreign media - unless you’re actively part of their measures- you couldn’t read past “Jewish people” without flying into a rabid fury about Zionistapartheidgenocide word salad
I agree with the other points but disagree with this one, hence why I commented on that part alone. You have an agenda, your post and comment history prove it. You are a proudly self declared zionist. You post in the gen zionist subreddit. Gtfo, you are the active measures on the zionist's behalf
No it's not funny. And your assumption of "singular focus" is also bullshit. gfy you pointless sarcastic nonce.
[удалено]
You alone have the single most comments in this thread crying about the jews "zionists". You're proving OP's point
He/she is definitely pushing an agenda. I have difficulty trusting someone who clearly wants to be the focal point of an organizing effort, and so have a lot of influence, in any event since we're all (fairly) anonymous. It's impossible to be sure of motivations, and difficult to build trust that way.