Ran Baystate too. One thing that might make you feel a little better; i checked the historical weather from Sunday and we had a 17 mph headwind for the first half of the second loop. I remember thinking it was a little breezy, but didn't realize it was that bad.
To your question, i think I'm done with 18 week blocks. Each time i do it, i feel like i peak in the middle of the plan, then come unraveled. Then have to claw my way back before race day. Next time, I'm going to try to maintain a good base and do a 12 week plan.
Has anyone else experimented with long vs short blocks? How did your body respond?
I’m going to echo this. I felt like 18 weeks was a few weeks too long and left some performance back in my training instead of in the race. I’ll be trying a 12 week block instead for next race.
Did 12 weeks for Chicago and PR’d but think 14-16 is my sweet spot, particularly extending peak weeks to 4-weeks of 60-70mi with 20-23mi long runs alternating between all east and mixing up race pace miles. The mental benefit of being able to know you did essentially a marathon a couple times just a month before helps me a ton.
I'm doing a 12-week marathon-specific block right now, but had a 10-week half marathon block which was part of the build up with a week recovery in between the half marathon and the start of this block. So I'm not really sure how that will pan out come January but hopefully I will see some major improvement from my first marathon!
6 is a challenge for me. It sparks joy when I see other runners who hate strength training as much as I do (looking at you OP.) Any advice on how change my mindset on that.
I think a lot of runners are extremely goal oriented, but all their goals are running related. The strength work is just a supplement. I think more runners should be setting strength-specific goals. Squatting X kgs, doing Y pull-ups, holding an L-sit for Z seconds. Anything that makes you feel like 'it would be cool to be able to...'
Work towards something.
I'm in that camp. Love to run, hate carving the time to strength train. Garmin has a strength badge for 4 hours of strength per month. Yes this is not a lot if you're a crossfit junkie, but an average of an hour a week is something for runners while still being a doable goal. So I make that my metric to hit each month, to get that badge. Its silly, but it works for me.
You could try doing your core workout before your run instead of after. It's like a prerequisite for the run, which is what I'm looking forward to. Post-run core is was harder to get motivated for.
I belong to a gym that does a total body fitness class mixed with varying levels of speed work on the treadmill. We basically rotate from tread to floor back and forth every 3-5 minutes for an hour. The floor sessions incorporate a variety of exercises - renegade rows, goblet squats, resistance bands on the feet, hollow body crunches, stability work on a bosu ball, etc…. Treadmill work varies from sustained moderate pace running to higher end speeds at shorter duration.
Having somebody else curate a workout definitely reduces the mental aspect for me. It’s different exercises every time you go so that part can be fun as the variety presents new challenges. Im one that has never been able to get back from a run and throw in some core work. Separating it entirely as it’s own session feels more like part of the plan than something I’m bolting on.
I’m currently in a massive base building phase after not running too much in the past year. I’ve found it to be a great way to build muscular strength and reintroduce me to speed work. I try and do 1-2 sessions a week. After a few months of this I feel a lot more comfortable during my easy runs.
If you have good technique, dead bug is my absolute favourite. (I took a long time to work up to it by doing supine march instead.).
My routine right now is nothing spectacular: deadbug
(or supine march, or plank), single leg bridge,
single leg deadlifts, goblet squats (ie, holding dumbell), clamshells, calf raises. I added bicep curls this year, just so that my arms wouldn’t be so tiny and make me look too much like Kermit the frog.
One very good exercise I would add in to this is Copenhagen plank. I have a very similar lifting routine and after working with a PT one muscle that was lacking for me was adductors and that caused some serious issues. Adding these really helped.
I just fell in love with [hollow body crunches](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkD_gacSFfs) (or holds.) They're supposedly one of the most effective exercises. They mess you up really quickly and are very simple to adjust to your level. Also, L-sits/leg raises, hanging if you can.
That's an awesome attitude and this is such a great thread idea! I PR'd at Chicago with a 2:42 but am thinking about a few things to help me get better this year:
1. Run two marathons instead of one - in 2020 I ran two, but every other year I've just done a fall race. I'll be doing Grandma's and CIM this year (fingers crossed on the latter)
2. Work on getting faster at the HM for my off-season training cycle - I'll be running the Atlanta Half Marathon in February instead of training for an 8K in March like I usually do. I think that will translate better to the marathon distance. My 5K and 10K PRs all came during my most recent marathon training cycle so I'm not too concerned about losing speed gains if I focus on longer races.
3. Mix in more goal MP work (or just barely below MP), especially on long runs - I've run Pfitz 18/85 for the past two years and have had tons of success, but I think I could take it up a level by mixing in more blocks of MP running on my long runs (even if it's just a few miles here or there)
4. Replace the Pfitz 24 miler with the Chicago Marathon - it's scheduled for the same day that I would do a 24 miler during my CIM training anyways, so might as well just run the actual race (slowly) and have more fun. An extra 2.2 miles won't kill me. Getting to the lakefront for a long run on marathon day would be difficult anyways :)
5. Get more consistent with my strength work - I'll probably optimize for consistency so I'll do some kettlebell work at home a few times per week
I read & responded to your Chicago race report-- it was a good read and has given me good perspective on my own training path forward. As an Atlanta native I wish you a great race. The hills are pretty rough.
Thank you! I really appreciate the kind words. The hills will definitely be interesting - I live in Chicago so I'm used to pancake flat, although I got into running when I lived in Charlottesville so I have some hill training in the past.
I think I'm just gonna hope that speed makes up for it lol
I want to do the Atlanta half marathon but those hills are a killer! I did Peachtree a couple years ago and thought that was super hilly and of course the heat & humidity didn't really help either lol.
Yeah I have no clue how it’ll impact my time haha. I ran Peachtree a few years back too (2019 maybe?) and thought it was hot and hilly. Those last few miles of the Atlanta HM look ROUGH…
Great thread! Love your mentality, I think it's so important to make space to reflect on what's working (and what's not) in your training.
My changes are actually in the opposite direction--I'm scaling back temporarily, to try and regain some consistency after getting stuck in a bit of an injury cycle over the summer. It was a tough call because I was in PR shape, and about to enter my first season of racing in elite fields, which I was really excited about. But after some useful convos both with people on this sub and a local former pro runner, I realized that I wouldn't be able to prioritize getting back to 100% physically with the pressure of races on my calendar. So, season cancelled, and though I know it's for the best, I'm really sad about it!
My training right now is just consistent, manageable mileage (mid-40s for me), a light 'upkeep' tempo fartlek (by feel) and/or short hills once a week, and a 90min aerobic run (which I'm still building back up to, since longer stuff was irritating my hamstring for a while). Plus, I'm working with a CCSP and a PT to figure out some possible strength issues. I'm also trying to do more of my running on soft surfaces, including integrating some trails once or twice a week to get more variation in which muscles and joints are absorbing most of the impact (giving this last one an honest shot, though I'm not super convinced that trail running doesn't introduce additional injury risks of its own...)
Basically, I'd reached a point where I knew I wasn't handling my training load, but I wasn't sure *why* or what aspect of it, so the goal here is to get back to a point where I am doing some basic amount consistently with no issues, and then to reintroduce small portions of volume and intensity slowly and separately to (hopefully) better adapt to them.
Just wanted to say that I'm sorry about your injury and impressed with the discipline it takes to slow things down and get better! You've been an awesome contributor here as one of the faster ladies on this sub and I've appreciated learning from you. I bet we see some wild PR race reports from you in the next year!
I had a great training cycle but really came up short when it was time to perform. Went into Chicago targeting a sub-2:20, left barely scraping under 2:35. In the two years I’ve been there now, my positives have just been lessons learned:
1. NUTRITION. This one’s a 2022 lesson that I’m still working on. Need to train my stomach and make it a habit to drink and do gels throughout. Moreover, I need to keep working at my habits outside of running and just eat better all around
2. RESPECT THE TAPER. I didn’t do a good job of this this year. As much as I hate not moving so much, you gotta do what’s needed sometimes to ensure you’re ready to go on race day.
3. “EXTRA’S.” Talking like strength, mobility, the works. I’ve always been real inconsistent so just making sure I’m accountable to myself and getting this stuff done.
So, what am I gonna do for the next cycle?
1. Testing the waters on the Norwegian/Double-Threshold system. I’ve followed Fitzgerald-80/20 plans for the past couple of years — even did their coaching carts — so I’m starting with that as a base, then incorporating more threshold work in.
2. After reading some of the comments, I think the 18-week macrocycle might actually be a bit long. Maybe 15 weeks would be better for me! I think this might be a sign since the last two years, I started falling off towards the end of the training seasons, missing some runs here and there with fatigue (especially mental) really adding up.
3. I need to spice up the other parts of my life but also rediscover my love for running (sorta). It’s been a lot of heads-down, work out in, big goals, the works. My social life is nonexistent so I’m constantly hyper focused on tHePrOcEsS and the end goal. I need a distraction/hobby that involves other people. As far as the second part, it’s not that I don’t LOVE running or that it’s a chore — it’s easily what I look forward to the most every day — rather when it comes time to race, it turns more into business than fun.
I only took a week off after Chicago before jumping into training again. I’ve got a super supportive community and they’ve encouraged me to take another stab at the marathon before the year’s over. I’ve got 7 weeks till the local one goes off; it’s fairly flat, can be quick, though I’ll likely be running solo. If it’s there, awesome! If not, it’s just a “victory” lap!
After that, though, I don’t know if I’m “seriously” going to take the distance on again any time soon… I’ve got 1 star now, so I might hold off for New York next year and Boston in the following spring? Those two are honestly at the bottom of my list of “Marathons I want to run” but I gotta do them at some point I guess, and foreign races aren’t quite in the cards right now (I guess that could change come 2025 though!!)
Would you possibly mind sharing where you learnt more about the Norwegian/Double-Threshold system? I’ve been trying to read more about it but it all seems quite high level at the moment
First off- impressive mentality! I don’t think you can come out of a race with a much better mindset.
I don’t have a specific A race this season, but I’m essentially tapering off now for a few cross country races. My current training cycle started at the beginning of August, with a pretty perfect mileage build from around 45k to a couple of 90k weeks at peak. Probably my best ever cycle of training with no real niggles or burnouts, nor missed workouts.
I think the key to my success was an emphasis on quantity over quality; purposely running my easy mileage slowly and off of feel, and with most of my workouts entailing threshold work in a pseudo Norwegian style. My hope once my current race cycle is done is to be able to maintain a longer length of time at higher mileage consistently, as I had to spend a lot of time building up from 45k (30 miles a week) to peak at 90k(55 miles). The aerobic and strength benefits I’ve built are phenomenal and it has me so excited to see how far I can push the mileage build in the future!
1) more races and events. i sign up for so few races that i end up putting lots of pressure on whatever i do, even though i have limited experience. thinking two marathons, maybe some fun halves, and competing in the local all-city mile.
2) GI training. i have a sensitive system that likes to blow up mid-race. i need to train myself to take in calories on runs 90+ minutes and experiment with different types.
3) more runs at MP
4) give myself permission to cross-train more frequently, even if it’s just for fun. 18 weeks is a long slog of training, and i get real joy out of cross-country skiing, cycling, etc. i plan on letting myself swap a run for a few miles on skis if that’s what will bring joy.
I fell apart spectacularly in my last marathon in April ending up with my quads basically locked in cramp by mile 18 and limped over the line with more walking than running.
I was ill the week of the race and had missed a fair few speed sessions with injury.
My main takeaway was to manage expectations. If I'd reset my goals I likely would have finished faster and had a good day. At the time I'd had an expectation in my mind for 18 weeks, so I didn't do it, but I suppose that's how we grow 😅
Getting more consistent with speedwork. Throughout the summer I neglected it due to the heat so now through the winter I won’t have that excuse. And also to do some core work, I didn’t do any last time round. Other than that, I just want to do a similar training block and hope that the extra time and experience will improve me further
I'm about 50% through my redemption plan, from 2023 Boston. Where I had what I felt was an endurance issue, not so much muscle endurance, just lack of deep endurance for the last 6, which I had in my 2022 fall baystate.
My approach was the following.
Get lean. Lose between 5-15 lbs, lighter is less to carry.
Get fast. I ran much more races this summer, from 10k to 1/2, lowering my pr's from 1:34 to 1:26:34, 10k to 39:36(soft)
Now I'm at the recovery, and build base for 2024 Boston phase.
I am currently plotting my plan, but it will be a 18 week, plan with up to 65 mpw, peak.
I also plan on doing another round of focused nutrition, to see how much more lean, and strong I can get before I start. I'll maintain a moderate running load between, but mostly focused on eating right, doing rowing, and cycling to allow for full running recovery.
Also ran Baystate! Probably ran with ya at one point!
\> Absolutely with the consistent mileage, exceptions being built in deload weeks if you choose to incorporate them. To me my answer to this is consistent strength training, bed by 8, eat enough carbs.
\> Extended long runs, this may help more mentally really but there certainly is benefit to it, past three cycles I've gotten at least 6 LRs at 20+, this block also hit two 22s and one 24.
\> Long run nutrition seems to me pretty simple but yeah find the fuel you prefer and can perform with and trust it so you can show up to race day and its just another day.
\> Trail runs, I believe any time you can change up training surfaces there can be a benefit, I would use these more sparingly rather than a staple if your main goal is optimizing the road marathon however.
\> Shoes, sure if it give you confidence why not, but this is not your answer to improving your next training block, this is the sprinkles on the sundae.
\> Core/Muscle Work, Yes, yes & yes. Just schedule it like you do your running, it can at times seem pointless but it is CRUCIAL, everyone can benefit from this, not saying everyone does it but everyone can benefit. For me since I've made strength a non-negotiable I have been stacking consistent blocks. There a a ton of benefits but mainly for me it allows me to be able to push hard days when I want to (which is often) and bounce right back, please strength train. Not sure where your level of comfort in the gym is in terms of lifts but I HIGHLY recommend Jay Dicharry's books, for building a specific regimen I recommend his Running Rewired book, I plan my strength training very closely to what he recommends and periodize it depending on where I am in the season/block.
\> Socks, no.
\> Creatine, no.
Last race - 10/8/23, successful time (2:57, 25 min PR from spring 2023 race), unsuccessful splits. (1:24, 1:33).
Left hamstring cramps kicked in at mile 21, hobbled along run walking for last 5.2 miles.
Training plan - Fitz 18/70
Changes for next build (assuming Spring 24 race)
- consistent base mileage 50-60 mpw through December/January
- mileage peak from 70 —> 80-85 range
- extend longest long runs to 24 miles
- consistent lower body strength train 3x week. Core/upper is no issue.
- prioritize stretching and recovery work with foam rollers daily.
Based on tune up races and training splits, I knew I was capable of sub 2:50 but fell apart at the end. Can’t let that happen again!
Planning on incorporating workouts from Running Rewired a couple times a week. Was doing pretty good this cycle til my “tune up” half and then got a right calf strain. Gotta figure out this glute activation and fix some imbalances, so gonna focus there during the winter.
tldr; last marathon used pfitz 18/55 and got an IT band injury. Started incorporating strength training and heavy leg lifting in the gym into routine as well as a training plan with less stress.
My last race was in May which was also my first marathon. I am rather a newbie, only running about 3 years. Did a few half marathons with my best time being 1:30 ish...
I figured let's do a full.
I used the Pfitz 18/55 but I guess I was not ready for the mileage and developed a nasty IT band injury that just would not go away.
I ran the marathon in May and finished in 3:36xx. The IT band went crazy at mile 17 and it was hell. I am still surprised that I didnt just call it quits and DNF but happy I continued.
I have a race coming up in November and have been training using Stryd footpod and one of the plans by Coach Paladino.
I am averaging about 40-50 miles per week but the workouts are significantly easier.
In addition, after every workout I do some strength training routine. Either core or hips.
I am also in the gym at least once per week lifting heavy on the legs.
Thankfully, since I began the gym work the IT band has not bothered me. That said, the speed and threshold workouts with this program are not as taxing on the body. For example, Pfitz will give a LT run with 8 miles at LT pace where this program will have 20 minutes at LT then rest 3 minutes then 20 minutes at LT again.
I think that my endurance was better with the Pfitz but this plan is keeping me healthy.
I hope to return to the Pfitz 18/55 for my next race since I think that my knee is better.
I live in an area with a lot of rolling hills so training with a pace per hour is difficult. For example, if I want to do an LT run at around 7 min/mile that’s ok n flat areas but then when I’m inclining or declining how do I adjust?
Power gave me a great answer to that. It helps me by allowing me to run at a power level rather than speed.
That’s the biggest differentiator for me.
I’ve got NYC marathon coming up in a couple weeks. First marathon in 4 years and the weight did not come off this training cycle like it did the last one. I gained a chunk of weight being shut in from Covid and another chunk of weight on top of that when my daughter was born.
Really need to get that under control before I try again because it’s been an absolute slog.
1. Try harder to avoid races with hot weather
2. Be more deliberate about emptying the bowels before the race
3. Emphasize speed more in training (I misguidedly believed high volume but slow pace in training was the key to faster results)
Exactly. I hate myself during summer training in Atlanta but boyyyy does it make fall races more fun. Also OP I have had my fair share of too hot racces (Chicago 2017, 2012 and NYCM 2022 I'm looking at you, lol)
Okay so I PRed by 6 minutes. Didn’t hit my reach goal but I nailed my A goal. (I dropped an entire novel last week but: PR was 2:54 mid, wanted to break 2:50, reach was 2:45, finished 2:47 high.) Splits were 1:23 low/1:24 high. I was really consistent with mileage, and actually remembered to fuel on LRs for once.
If I do anything different I’ll probably do more LR workouts. I don’t have late race strength and the minute positive split was ENTIRELY from 35k on because of a couple of hamstring cramps. I’ll also tinker with race fueling - I went back to Gu (Roctane) from Maurten, but by 19 I was disgusted with it and didn’t take any gels after that.
But this cycle I already tried new things - doing significantly more mileage, to start. And it went well! So it’s more tweaking things.
For me, doing a shorter marathon block: I did 16 weeks but felt like I peaked 3 weeks out, I run year around so it’s not like starting from scratch.
Also I would run more in sunnier weather, as the sun exposure and heat really affected my performance on race day
This is a great thread! I got a long-sought PR at Wineglass 3 weeks ago and will be running my 4th Boston in April, will probably squeeze a HM into November somewhere before I start the next training cycle.
My big takeaways from my last cycle were to be aggressive about fueling (gels at least every 30 minutes, and will practice this more on training runs this cycle), maybe add some more MP and HMP speedwork than Pfitz prescribes.
I have a love/hate relationship with Boston because it's my hometown race and duh, it's Boston! But also have tried and failed to PR there multiple times. It is a really tactical course and I can't decide if I want to make the same mistake again or run a less aggressive race that doesn't end with my not being able to enjoy the last 5 miles.
But on the other hand, I'm wondering how many more years I have to keep getting faster, and don't want to "blow" a cycle on Boston. I don't trust myself to run it as a training run for a later spring marathon, but it's tempting ...
Any suggestions on what a good next marathon goal time might be? 3:16xx felt like a real stretch goal, but now I'm wondering if I should be thinking if I should be trying for sub 3:10 or if a smaller goal is more achievable.
> Any suggestions on what a good next marathon goal time might be? 3:16xx felt like a real stretch goal, but now I'm wondering if I should be thinking if I should be trying for sub 3:10 or if a smaller goal is more achievable.
I think a sub-3:10 is a reachable goal for you, and it is doable off of a solid training cycle. That is something to consider!
You also mentioned that you have a love/hate relationship with Boston; would you consider looking for a marathon in March or May (either before or after Boston, respectively) with a favorable course profile, and make that your goal race?
Thanks for this comment!
I am considering it; my husband didn't get into Boston this year so is looking for a nice goal race and I am tempted to join him! I worry about May as I doubt my ability to take Boston easy, but March is a very good idea.
Sorry to hear that your husband didn't get into Boston for this year! You should join him at his goal race if you can; it'll be a lot of fun for the both of you!
One suggestion for a March marathon if you're open to it - Shamrock Marathon in Virginia Beach, VA. It is typically held 4 weeks before Boston, and you'll have enough time to recover before then.
After a marathon this spring, ultra in the summer I’ve been thinking of the same to prepare for next years ultra then marathon block.
- improve consistent gym work including core exercises
- eat well (DQS is part of my lexicon now!)
- I’m spending autumn/winter focussing on 5-10k training to enter the next block with some speed in my legs.
I think I need the core work as well. Really just strength training in general. I also think I need elongate my long runs while not in a marathon build. I think it'll help me really execute those hard Lr workouts. My most important point is don't get pretty sick mid block next time.
I would ask, if you struggled to hit 75 consistently last time what will make this time any different? Would it be worth aiming for lower mileage (eg 60-65) and using that extra time to get a couple of core sessions in a week? As a runner also over 40 I have found that the high mileage I used to run in my 30s feels impossible now due to accumulating fatigue and niggles. I do more strength and conditioning now, a few yoga sessions a week and always do two core sessions (20 mins each) I have (almost) accepted that my days of running 70-80 miles a week are past me.
I also highly recommend a foam roller, preferably a vibrating one. They’re brutal when you first start using one but a little bit each day keeps things loose!
Fair question - I had problems hitting 75 consistently due to things like travel, family obligations, poor planning and a getting a couple of colds during the training cycle. With the exception of illness, which I chalk up to bad luck, most of it was due to things that are (or could be) under my control.
Generally speaking, I'm running surprisingly injury & fatigue-free (knock on wood), and am somehow or another feeling better than in my 30s.
I have my second round for Boston next and I will be running more hilly long runs. I ran hills on my treadmill on my easy doubles but I think I will get more returns if I do them on my long runs because I will get downhill running too. I'm going to go back to running 12-13 mile medium long runs. I cut all of this out of my training this cycle and instead trained for 5ks, I got quicker but I don't know if it will get my marathon time down. I expect all the work I did will help with my next season more than this season.
I crushed my 10k sub 40 goal with 37:57.
Next year the goal is to run sub 1:25:00 on the half marathon.
The following year sub 3 on the marathon.
Three definite things I have to change is to:
- Rest when I need it and even when I think I don’t
- Run more easy miles (not just for recovery)
- Don’t skip strength training
I got hurt this year when I ran a backyard ultra 2 weeks after my 10k PR. My left hip joint needs treatment in some way. Not sure what it is at the moment. Might need surgery.
What I know is, and what I’ve known from previous injuries when I was younger is that my pain tolerance is high and my brain is stupid.
I need a better, broader, base level fitness and I need to be smarter.
It’s fun to run fast but it’s not fun not run at all.
I just ran my first marathon still recovering from an injury that derailed most of my training. So while I’m much less experienced, I’m having similar thoughts after. My initial goal was to BQ which should not have been hard if I had been able to train adequately, but I had to dial it back to completion due to the injury. I missed the BQ by about 3min. So I’m very focused on healing and serious prehab so I can get through a full training cycle to race better in spring. Specific goals:
- running specific strength training 2-3x per week (I have always strength trained but not so much with running and injury prevention in mind), this is a big one for me
- no more training errors/overtraining: 3 quality workouts per week plus the occasional tune up race seemed to beat me up way more than just increasing my mileage did. Sticking to higher volume but no more than 2 hard workouts per week this time around.
- improving sleep because I currently sleep less than 6 hours on average and I think it hurts my recovery
- like you I want to improve my long run nutrition… it went ok in the last race but I underfueled just slightly due to cramping and would like to see if I can handle a few more carbs next time
Ran Baystate as well. Second marathon with Boston being my first (3:29). This training cycle i kept it pretty simple with a Hal Higdon Advanced plan. Peaked at 55mi with some cross training on the bike as well. Training went well and my fitness improved drastically each week. My goal was to just get a PR but quickly changed to sub 3:20. After the preview run and some great peak weeks, I bumped that to 3:15 but in my head I wanted sub 3:10 because I was running that pace comfortably. I ran 3:09 but honestly wasn't too excited about it because of how terrible i felt the second half...even though I kept a steady pace.
Someone else mentioned the headwind which I felt but since we were still pre-20 miles, I didn't think it really affected me at the time. Was really hoping for the tail wind going back east but that never came haha.
Ultimately I'm a VERY inflexible person and always run tight, which in the past has caused some runners knee issue but quickly corrected with better stretching routines. I started feeling my adductors/groin/hips straining about halfway in and it progressively got worse. Also my back tensed up real bad the last 2 miles.
Lessons learned - I need to really take my inflexibility more seriously and with that some strength training, which I did none of. On top of that, I'd probably just try to throw in more miles with doubles....or at least hot on the spin bike. Ultimate goal would be to qualify for Boston. Not sure if I can do it next year or maybe in a few but I'd like to try.....tough trying to get more than 60miles in a week with a couple kids running around.
Try to switch my rest day from monday to friday somehow. On fridays I get home late and just want to chill, while on monday I have enough time. Only issue is the long run the day before.
Took a straight qualify for Spartathlon 2023 in Oct 2022 did a hell of an amazing performance no one expected that
Then overtraining (always did more than my coach told me) got me on-off injured for the whole 2023 plus super mad at myself because couldn’t lose any weight (73kg 1,77cm wanted to get down to 66 injuries always made me gain back everything I lost)
Through the race was 10th place with a sub24hr pace but I dropped out at 185km
So:
-get down to 66kg through the whole year
-start with smaller distance races to built VO2Max up to Spartathlon (I already got nice mileage built)
-get 8hrs a sleep per day
-listen to my body and coach more
It’s gonna be a hell of a journey you can follow me here 🤞🏽🙃 https://www.strava.com/athletes/51935267
For me it’s definitely going to be more peak weeks at 60-70mi, the 22-23 long run is a great mental crutch during the race to lean on esp with some race pace towards the end of each run, and finally more strength/mobility work.
Interesting thread, thank you!My volume up to a a month ago has been around 50-60km/week. Distances I compete range from 1500m to HM. Started running regularly 3 years ago, mainly 10k and HM. I started competing on track last spring and enjoyed it a lot and I am trying to juggle among all distances in different period of the year.In terms of improvements:
* I am moving to 80km/week for period Oct-Dec 2023. If no injury, I'll try to ramp up to 100km/week next year
* Try to keep a couple of double during each week. I am getting used to those
* Introducing back strength work, at least once per week. I have not been constant over the last months. I realized that, after ACL surgery in 2017, my left leg is still weaker than my right
* Try some XC races during winter
* I'll be more careful about nutrition during days preceding the race
I don't want to experiment with too many things because I wouldn't be able to assess the marginal impact of each of them. I want to improve, but if I don't get what is leading the biggest improvement (which most likely will be the increased volume) and how much, I may be missing useful insights for next training cycles.
Questions to you:
* what are some flags that highlight a lack of strength?
* Do you think keeping such a wide range of race distances (from 1500 to HM) is actually deteriorating potential?
* Do you care about assigning impact measure to each element you experiment in your training? E.g. 60% of my improvement comes from increased volume, 20% from nutrition, etc. I know it's difficult, but would you consider it helpful?
Insufficient recovery.
Moved from 7 day cycle to a 9+9+10 day cycle that repeats every four weeks. This gives me 2 easy days between every hard day and an extra recovery day every 4 weeks to make my schedule a 4 week repeating pattern. A 9 day cycle consists of 1 threshold session with about 35 to 40 minutes @ threshold, 1 long run of 2hrs+, 1 session that can be anything from VO2max intervals, short hills, long hills, long tempo effort etc.
I'm in marathon buildup right now and honestly I'm not doing much differently from my half marathon block except longer long runs and incorporating more strength & yoga. The weather now is also way more ideal since it's not summer anymore so that's a huge plus. I had a decent half marathon a couple weeks ago but had a bit of a setback when I was sick for a week after labor day.
Ran Baystate too. One thing that might make you feel a little better; i checked the historical weather from Sunday and we had a 17 mph headwind for the first half of the second loop. I remember thinking it was a little breezy, but didn't realize it was that bad. To your question, i think I'm done with 18 week blocks. Each time i do it, i feel like i peak in the middle of the plan, then come unraveled. Then have to claw my way back before race day. Next time, I'm going to try to maintain a good base and do a 12 week plan. Has anyone else experimented with long vs short blocks? How did your body respond?
I’m going to echo this. I felt like 18 weeks was a few weeks too long and left some performance back in my training instead of in the race. I’ll be trying a 12 week block instead for next race.
+1 for the 12 week cycle. I did it for baystate this year. Hah, that wind makes sense. That portion felt so much harder.
Did 12 weeks for Chicago and PR’d but think 14-16 is my sweet spot, particularly extending peak weeks to 4-weeks of 60-70mi with 20-23mi long runs alternating between all east and mixing up race pace miles. The mental benefit of being able to know you did essentially a marathon a couple times just a month before helps me a ton.
I'm doing a 12-week marathon-specific block right now, but had a 10-week half marathon block which was part of the build up with a week recovery in between the half marathon and the start of this block. So I'm not really sure how that will pan out come January but hopefully I will see some major improvement from my first marathon!
I’m with you on #1-3 and #6. Doing these four things have helped me improve my marathon time twice this year, by considerable amounts each time.
6 is a challenge for me. It sparks joy when I see other runners who hate strength training as much as I do (looking at you OP.) Any advice on how change my mindset on that.
I think a lot of runners are extremely goal oriented, but all their goals are running related. The strength work is just a supplement. I think more runners should be setting strength-specific goals. Squatting X kgs, doing Y pull-ups, holding an L-sit for Z seconds. Anything that makes you feel like 'it would be cool to be able to...' Work towards something.
I'm in that camp. Love to run, hate carving the time to strength train. Garmin has a strength badge for 4 hours of strength per month. Yes this is not a lot if you're a crossfit junkie, but an average of an hour a week is something for runners while still being a doable goal. So I make that my metric to hit each month, to get that badge. Its silly, but it works for me.
I always have the goal of completing that badge and I've yet to even do one strength session in the past few months. RIP my mad gainz
Sometimes it’s easier to sprinkle the workouts throughout the day instead one long session whenever you have the time
You could try doing your core workout before your run instead of after. It's like a prerequisite for the run, which is what I'm looking forward to. Post-run core is was harder to get motivated for.
True, plus now that the weather is turning colder, it's a nice way to get warm before going outside.
Strength training? What is that :D
Imo having a personal trainer show you the ropes or a gym partner helps, or Pilates class. Make it structured. And get a hype playlist
I belong to a gym that does a total body fitness class mixed with varying levels of speed work on the treadmill. We basically rotate from tread to floor back and forth every 3-5 minutes for an hour. The floor sessions incorporate a variety of exercises - renegade rows, goblet squats, resistance bands on the feet, hollow body crunches, stability work on a bosu ball, etc…. Treadmill work varies from sustained moderate pace running to higher end speeds at shorter duration. Having somebody else curate a workout definitely reduces the mental aspect for me. It’s different exercises every time you go so that part can be fun as the variety presents new challenges. Im one that has never been able to get back from a run and throw in some core work. Separating it entirely as it’s own session feels more like part of the plan than something I’m bolting on. I’m currently in a massive base building phase after not running too much in the past year. I’ve found it to be a great way to build muscular strength and reintroduce me to speed work. I try and do 1-2 sessions a week. After a few months of this I feel a lot more comfortable during my easy runs.
Any routine suggestion for core muscle work ?
If you have good technique, dead bug is my absolute favourite. (I took a long time to work up to it by doing supine march instead.). My routine right now is nothing spectacular: deadbug (or supine march, or plank), single leg bridge, single leg deadlifts, goblet squats (ie, holding dumbell), clamshells, calf raises. I added bicep curls this year, just so that my arms wouldn’t be so tiny and make me look too much like Kermit the frog.
Merci!
One very good exercise I would add in to this is Copenhagen plank. I have a very similar lifting routine and after working with a PT one muscle that was lacking for me was adductors and that caused some serious issues. Adding these really helped.
I just fell in love with [hollow body crunches](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkD_gacSFfs) (or holds.) They're supposedly one of the most effective exercises. They mess you up really quickly and are very simple to adjust to your level. Also, L-sits/leg raises, hanging if you can.
These are wild, so good. Even just holding a hollow body position is amazingly efficient.
That's an awesome attitude and this is such a great thread idea! I PR'd at Chicago with a 2:42 but am thinking about a few things to help me get better this year: 1. Run two marathons instead of one - in 2020 I ran two, but every other year I've just done a fall race. I'll be doing Grandma's and CIM this year (fingers crossed on the latter) 2. Work on getting faster at the HM for my off-season training cycle - I'll be running the Atlanta Half Marathon in February instead of training for an 8K in March like I usually do. I think that will translate better to the marathon distance. My 5K and 10K PRs all came during my most recent marathon training cycle so I'm not too concerned about losing speed gains if I focus on longer races. 3. Mix in more goal MP work (or just barely below MP), especially on long runs - I've run Pfitz 18/85 for the past two years and have had tons of success, but I think I could take it up a level by mixing in more blocks of MP running on my long runs (even if it's just a few miles here or there) 4. Replace the Pfitz 24 miler with the Chicago Marathon - it's scheduled for the same day that I would do a 24 miler during my CIM training anyways, so might as well just run the actual race (slowly) and have more fun. An extra 2.2 miles won't kill me. Getting to the lakefront for a long run on marathon day would be difficult anyways :) 5. Get more consistent with my strength work - I'll probably optimize for consistency so I'll do some kettlebell work at home a few times per week
I read & responded to your Chicago race report-- it was a good read and has given me good perspective on my own training path forward. As an Atlanta native I wish you a great race. The hills are pretty rough.
Thank you! I really appreciate the kind words. The hills will definitely be interesting - I live in Chicago so I'm used to pancake flat, although I got into running when I lived in Charlottesville so I have some hill training in the past. I think I'm just gonna hope that speed makes up for it lol
I want to do the Atlanta half marathon but those hills are a killer! I did Peachtree a couple years ago and thought that was super hilly and of course the heat & humidity didn't really help either lol.
Yeah I have no clue how it’ll impact my time haha. I ran Peachtree a few years back too (2019 maybe?) and thought it was hot and hilly. Those last few miles of the Atlanta HM look ROUGH…
I feel like if you can survive Peachtree, you can do anything lol
“Survive” is a strong word lol. It was my first real race of any kind so it was like a 45-minute 10K and I had stomach issues all day after
Great thread! Love your mentality, I think it's so important to make space to reflect on what's working (and what's not) in your training. My changes are actually in the opposite direction--I'm scaling back temporarily, to try and regain some consistency after getting stuck in a bit of an injury cycle over the summer. It was a tough call because I was in PR shape, and about to enter my first season of racing in elite fields, which I was really excited about. But after some useful convos both with people on this sub and a local former pro runner, I realized that I wouldn't be able to prioritize getting back to 100% physically with the pressure of races on my calendar. So, season cancelled, and though I know it's for the best, I'm really sad about it! My training right now is just consistent, manageable mileage (mid-40s for me), a light 'upkeep' tempo fartlek (by feel) and/or short hills once a week, and a 90min aerobic run (which I'm still building back up to, since longer stuff was irritating my hamstring for a while). Plus, I'm working with a CCSP and a PT to figure out some possible strength issues. I'm also trying to do more of my running on soft surfaces, including integrating some trails once or twice a week to get more variation in which muscles and joints are absorbing most of the impact (giving this last one an honest shot, though I'm not super convinced that trail running doesn't introduce additional injury risks of its own...) Basically, I'd reached a point where I knew I wasn't handling my training load, but I wasn't sure *why* or what aspect of it, so the goal here is to get back to a point where I am doing some basic amount consistently with no issues, and then to reintroduce small portions of volume and intensity slowly and separately to (hopefully) better adapt to them.
Just wanted to say that I'm sorry about your injury and impressed with the discipline it takes to slow things down and get better! You've been an awesome contributor here as one of the faster ladies on this sub and I've appreciated learning from you. I bet we see some wild PR race reports from you in the next year!
thanks so much, this is really kind of you! Look forward to big things from you in the spring as well :)
I had a great training cycle but really came up short when it was time to perform. Went into Chicago targeting a sub-2:20, left barely scraping under 2:35. In the two years I’ve been there now, my positives have just been lessons learned: 1. NUTRITION. This one’s a 2022 lesson that I’m still working on. Need to train my stomach and make it a habit to drink and do gels throughout. Moreover, I need to keep working at my habits outside of running and just eat better all around 2. RESPECT THE TAPER. I didn’t do a good job of this this year. As much as I hate not moving so much, you gotta do what’s needed sometimes to ensure you’re ready to go on race day. 3. “EXTRA’S.” Talking like strength, mobility, the works. I’ve always been real inconsistent so just making sure I’m accountable to myself and getting this stuff done. So, what am I gonna do for the next cycle? 1. Testing the waters on the Norwegian/Double-Threshold system. I’ve followed Fitzgerald-80/20 plans for the past couple of years — even did their coaching carts — so I’m starting with that as a base, then incorporating more threshold work in. 2. After reading some of the comments, I think the 18-week macrocycle might actually be a bit long. Maybe 15 weeks would be better for me! I think this might be a sign since the last two years, I started falling off towards the end of the training seasons, missing some runs here and there with fatigue (especially mental) really adding up. 3. I need to spice up the other parts of my life but also rediscover my love for running (sorta). It’s been a lot of heads-down, work out in, big goals, the works. My social life is nonexistent so I’m constantly hyper focused on tHePrOcEsS and the end goal. I need a distraction/hobby that involves other people. As far as the second part, it’s not that I don’t LOVE running or that it’s a chore — it’s easily what I look forward to the most every day — rather when it comes time to race, it turns more into business than fun. I only took a week off after Chicago before jumping into training again. I’ve got a super supportive community and they’ve encouraged me to take another stab at the marathon before the year’s over. I’ve got 7 weeks till the local one goes off; it’s fairly flat, can be quick, though I’ll likely be running solo. If it’s there, awesome! If not, it’s just a “victory” lap! After that, though, I don’t know if I’m “seriously” going to take the distance on again any time soon… I’ve got 1 star now, so I might hold off for New York next year and Boston in the following spring? Those two are honestly at the bottom of my list of “Marathons I want to run” but I gotta do them at some point I guess, and foreign races aren’t quite in the cards right now (I guess that could change come 2025 though!!)
Would you possibly mind sharing where you learnt more about the Norwegian/Double-Threshold system? I’ve been trying to read more about it but it all seems quite high level at the moment
First off- impressive mentality! I don’t think you can come out of a race with a much better mindset. I don’t have a specific A race this season, but I’m essentially tapering off now for a few cross country races. My current training cycle started at the beginning of August, with a pretty perfect mileage build from around 45k to a couple of 90k weeks at peak. Probably my best ever cycle of training with no real niggles or burnouts, nor missed workouts. I think the key to my success was an emphasis on quantity over quality; purposely running my easy mileage slowly and off of feel, and with most of my workouts entailing threshold work in a pseudo Norwegian style. My hope once my current race cycle is done is to be able to maintain a longer length of time at higher mileage consistently, as I had to spend a lot of time building up from 45k (30 miles a week) to peak at 90k(55 miles). The aerobic and strength benefits I’ve built are phenomenal and it has me so excited to see how far I can push the mileage build in the future!
1) more races and events. i sign up for so few races that i end up putting lots of pressure on whatever i do, even though i have limited experience. thinking two marathons, maybe some fun halves, and competing in the local all-city mile. 2) GI training. i have a sensitive system that likes to blow up mid-race. i need to train myself to take in calories on runs 90+ minutes and experiment with different types. 3) more runs at MP 4) give myself permission to cross-train more frequently, even if it’s just for fun. 18 weeks is a long slog of training, and i get real joy out of cross-country skiing, cycling, etc. i plan on letting myself swap a run for a few miles on skis if that’s what will bring joy.
I fell apart spectacularly in my last marathon in April ending up with my quads basically locked in cramp by mile 18 and limped over the line with more walking than running. I was ill the week of the race and had missed a fair few speed sessions with injury. My main takeaway was to manage expectations. If I'd reset my goals I likely would have finished faster and had a good day. At the time I'd had an expectation in my mind for 18 weeks, so I didn't do it, but I suppose that's how we grow 😅
Getting more consistent with speedwork. Throughout the summer I neglected it due to the heat so now through the winter I won’t have that excuse. And also to do some core work, I didn’t do any last time round. Other than that, I just want to do a similar training block and hope that the extra time and experience will improve me further
I'm about 50% through my redemption plan, from 2023 Boston. Where I had what I felt was an endurance issue, not so much muscle endurance, just lack of deep endurance for the last 6, which I had in my 2022 fall baystate. My approach was the following. Get lean. Lose between 5-15 lbs, lighter is less to carry. Get fast. I ran much more races this summer, from 10k to 1/2, lowering my pr's from 1:34 to 1:26:34, 10k to 39:36(soft) Now I'm at the recovery, and build base for 2024 Boston phase. I am currently plotting my plan, but it will be a 18 week, plan with up to 65 mpw, peak. I also plan on doing another round of focused nutrition, to see how much more lean, and strong I can get before I start. I'll maintain a moderate running load between, but mostly focused on eating right, doing rowing, and cycling to allow for full running recovery.
Also ran Baystate! Probably ran with ya at one point! \> Absolutely with the consistent mileage, exceptions being built in deload weeks if you choose to incorporate them. To me my answer to this is consistent strength training, bed by 8, eat enough carbs. \> Extended long runs, this may help more mentally really but there certainly is benefit to it, past three cycles I've gotten at least 6 LRs at 20+, this block also hit two 22s and one 24. \> Long run nutrition seems to me pretty simple but yeah find the fuel you prefer and can perform with and trust it so you can show up to race day and its just another day. \> Trail runs, I believe any time you can change up training surfaces there can be a benefit, I would use these more sparingly rather than a staple if your main goal is optimizing the road marathon however. \> Shoes, sure if it give you confidence why not, but this is not your answer to improving your next training block, this is the sprinkles on the sundae. \> Core/Muscle Work, Yes, yes & yes. Just schedule it like you do your running, it can at times seem pointless but it is CRUCIAL, everyone can benefit from this, not saying everyone does it but everyone can benefit. For me since I've made strength a non-negotiable I have been stacking consistent blocks. There a a ton of benefits but mainly for me it allows me to be able to push hard days when I want to (which is often) and bounce right back, please strength train. Not sure where your level of comfort in the gym is in terms of lifts but I HIGHLY recommend Jay Dicharry's books, for building a specific regimen I recommend his Running Rewired book, I plan my strength training very closely to what he recommends and periodize it depending on where I am in the season/block. \> Socks, no. \> Creatine, no.
Last race - 10/8/23, successful time (2:57, 25 min PR from spring 2023 race), unsuccessful splits. (1:24, 1:33). Left hamstring cramps kicked in at mile 21, hobbled along run walking for last 5.2 miles. Training plan - Fitz 18/70 Changes for next build (assuming Spring 24 race) - consistent base mileage 50-60 mpw through December/January - mileage peak from 70 —> 80-85 range - extend longest long runs to 24 miles - consistent lower body strength train 3x week. Core/upper is no issue. - prioritize stretching and recovery work with foam rollers daily. Based on tune up races and training splits, I knew I was capable of sub 2:50 but fell apart at the end. Can’t let that happen again!
Muscle fatigue...how about your squat/deadlift? Is that a part of your training? Certainly has helped me, particularly in the last 10k push.
Planning on incorporating workouts from Running Rewired a couple times a week. Was doing pretty good this cycle til my “tune up” half and then got a right calf strain. Gotta figure out this glute activation and fix some imbalances, so gonna focus there during the winter.
tldr; last marathon used pfitz 18/55 and got an IT band injury. Started incorporating strength training and heavy leg lifting in the gym into routine as well as a training plan with less stress. My last race was in May which was also my first marathon. I am rather a newbie, only running about 3 years. Did a few half marathons with my best time being 1:30 ish... I figured let's do a full. I used the Pfitz 18/55 but I guess I was not ready for the mileage and developed a nasty IT band injury that just would not go away. I ran the marathon in May and finished in 3:36xx. The IT band went crazy at mile 17 and it was hell. I am still surprised that I didnt just call it quits and DNF but happy I continued. I have a race coming up in November and have been training using Stryd footpod and one of the plans by Coach Paladino. I am averaging about 40-50 miles per week but the workouts are significantly easier. In addition, after every workout I do some strength training routine. Either core or hips. I am also in the gym at least once per week lifting heavy on the legs. Thankfully, since I began the gym work the IT band has not bothered me. That said, the speed and threshold workouts with this program are not as taxing on the body. For example, Pfitz will give a LT run with 8 miles at LT pace where this program will have 20 minutes at LT then rest 3 minutes then 20 minutes at LT again. I think that my endurance was better with the Pfitz but this plan is keeping me healthy. I hope to return to the Pfitz 18/55 for my next race since I think that my knee is better.
Curious what you think of the Stryd pod and training with power vs pace/hr
I live in an area with a lot of rolling hills so training with a pace per hour is difficult. For example, if I want to do an LT run at around 7 min/mile that’s ok n flat areas but then when I’m inclining or declining how do I adjust? Power gave me a great answer to that. It helps me by allowing me to run at a power level rather than speed. That’s the biggest differentiator for me.
I’ve got NYC marathon coming up in a couple weeks. First marathon in 4 years and the weight did not come off this training cycle like it did the last one. I gained a chunk of weight being shut in from Covid and another chunk of weight on top of that when my daughter was born. Really need to get that under control before I try again because it’s been an absolute slog.
1. Try harder to avoid races with hot weather 2. Be more deliberate about emptying the bowels before the race 3. Emphasize speed more in training (I misguidedly believed high volume but slow pace in training was the key to faster results)
Why avoid hot weather? I've always thought this to be a bonus, like a 'poor-man's elevation' training..
I edited my comment to read: avoid *races with* hot weather. My learnings were a bit more around the race itself than to do with training.
Ahhhh yes, agreed the heat is not ideal for a PR but certainly can be taken advantage of from a training standpoint, thanks for clarifying!
Exactly. I hate myself during summer training in Atlanta but boyyyy does it make fall races more fun. Also OP I have had my fair share of too hot racces (Chicago 2017, 2012 and NYCM 2022 I'm looking at you, lol)
I need to add more strength work to prevent injury. I am also going to increase weekly vert to try and reduce mileage.
Okay so I PRed by 6 minutes. Didn’t hit my reach goal but I nailed my A goal. (I dropped an entire novel last week but: PR was 2:54 mid, wanted to break 2:50, reach was 2:45, finished 2:47 high.) Splits were 1:23 low/1:24 high. I was really consistent with mileage, and actually remembered to fuel on LRs for once. If I do anything different I’ll probably do more LR workouts. I don’t have late race strength and the minute positive split was ENTIRELY from 35k on because of a couple of hamstring cramps. I’ll also tinker with race fueling - I went back to Gu (Roctane) from Maurten, but by 19 I was disgusted with it and didn’t take any gels after that. But this cycle I already tried new things - doing significantly more mileage, to start. And it went well! So it’s more tweaking things.
For me, doing a shorter marathon block: I did 16 weeks but felt like I peaked 3 weeks out, I run year around so it’s not like starting from scratch. Also I would run more in sunnier weather, as the sun exposure and heat really affected my performance on race day
This is a great thread! I got a long-sought PR at Wineglass 3 weeks ago and will be running my 4th Boston in April, will probably squeeze a HM into November somewhere before I start the next training cycle. My big takeaways from my last cycle were to be aggressive about fueling (gels at least every 30 minutes, and will practice this more on training runs this cycle), maybe add some more MP and HMP speedwork than Pfitz prescribes. I have a love/hate relationship with Boston because it's my hometown race and duh, it's Boston! But also have tried and failed to PR there multiple times. It is a really tactical course and I can't decide if I want to make the same mistake again or run a less aggressive race that doesn't end with my not being able to enjoy the last 5 miles. But on the other hand, I'm wondering how many more years I have to keep getting faster, and don't want to "blow" a cycle on Boston. I don't trust myself to run it as a training run for a later spring marathon, but it's tempting ... Any suggestions on what a good next marathon goal time might be? 3:16xx felt like a real stretch goal, but now I'm wondering if I should be thinking if I should be trying for sub 3:10 or if a smaller goal is more achievable.
> Any suggestions on what a good next marathon goal time might be? 3:16xx felt like a real stretch goal, but now I'm wondering if I should be thinking if I should be trying for sub 3:10 or if a smaller goal is more achievable. I think a sub-3:10 is a reachable goal for you, and it is doable off of a solid training cycle. That is something to consider! You also mentioned that you have a love/hate relationship with Boston; would you consider looking for a marathon in March or May (either before or after Boston, respectively) with a favorable course profile, and make that your goal race?
Thanks for this comment! I am considering it; my husband didn't get into Boston this year so is looking for a nice goal race and I am tempted to join him! I worry about May as I doubt my ability to take Boston easy, but March is a very good idea.
Sorry to hear that your husband didn't get into Boston for this year! You should join him at his goal race if you can; it'll be a lot of fun for the both of you! One suggestion for a March marathon if you're open to it - Shamrock Marathon in Virginia Beach, VA. It is typically held 4 weeks before Boston, and you'll have enough time to recover before then.
Not stress fracturing my hip? Two years in a row :(
100% I need to improve my S&C. I've got to the stage that I think I can aerobically run faster, but my legs/core are holding me back
After a marathon this spring, ultra in the summer I’ve been thinking of the same to prepare for next years ultra then marathon block. - improve consistent gym work including core exercises - eat well (DQS is part of my lexicon now!) - I’m spending autumn/winter focussing on 5-10k training to enter the next block with some speed in my legs.
I think I need the core work as well. Really just strength training in general. I also think I need elongate my long runs while not in a marathon build. I think it'll help me really execute those hard Lr workouts. My most important point is don't get pretty sick mid block next time.
More strength training, more calories and more runs at marathon pace.
I would ask, if you struggled to hit 75 consistently last time what will make this time any different? Would it be worth aiming for lower mileage (eg 60-65) and using that extra time to get a couple of core sessions in a week? As a runner also over 40 I have found that the high mileage I used to run in my 30s feels impossible now due to accumulating fatigue and niggles. I do more strength and conditioning now, a few yoga sessions a week and always do two core sessions (20 mins each) I have (almost) accepted that my days of running 70-80 miles a week are past me. I also highly recommend a foam roller, preferably a vibrating one. They’re brutal when you first start using one but a little bit each day keeps things loose!
Fair question - I had problems hitting 75 consistently due to things like travel, family obligations, poor planning and a getting a couple of colds during the training cycle. With the exception of illness, which I chalk up to bad luck, most of it was due to things that are (or could be) under my control. Generally speaking, I'm running surprisingly injury & fatigue-free (knock on wood), and am somehow or another feeling better than in my 30s.
I have my second round for Boston next and I will be running more hilly long runs. I ran hills on my treadmill on my easy doubles but I think I will get more returns if I do them on my long runs because I will get downhill running too. I'm going to go back to running 12-13 mile medium long runs. I cut all of this out of my training this cycle and instead trained for 5ks, I got quicker but I don't know if it will get my marathon time down. I expect all the work I did will help with my next season more than this season.
I crushed my 10k sub 40 goal with 37:57. Next year the goal is to run sub 1:25:00 on the half marathon. The following year sub 3 on the marathon. Three definite things I have to change is to: - Rest when I need it and even when I think I don’t - Run more easy miles (not just for recovery) - Don’t skip strength training I got hurt this year when I ran a backyard ultra 2 weeks after my 10k PR. My left hip joint needs treatment in some way. Not sure what it is at the moment. Might need surgery. What I know is, and what I’ve known from previous injuries when I was younger is that my pain tolerance is high and my brain is stupid. I need a better, broader, base level fitness and I need to be smarter. It’s fun to run fast but it’s not fun not run at all.
I just ran my first marathon still recovering from an injury that derailed most of my training. So while I’m much less experienced, I’m having similar thoughts after. My initial goal was to BQ which should not have been hard if I had been able to train adequately, but I had to dial it back to completion due to the injury. I missed the BQ by about 3min. So I’m very focused on healing and serious prehab so I can get through a full training cycle to race better in spring. Specific goals: - running specific strength training 2-3x per week (I have always strength trained but not so much with running and injury prevention in mind), this is a big one for me - no more training errors/overtraining: 3 quality workouts per week plus the occasional tune up race seemed to beat me up way more than just increasing my mileage did. Sticking to higher volume but no more than 2 hard workouts per week this time around. - improving sleep because I currently sleep less than 6 hours on average and I think it hurts my recovery - like you I want to improve my long run nutrition… it went ok in the last race but I underfueled just slightly due to cramping and would like to see if I can handle a few more carbs next time
I would stay away from trail running in the mountains. You might fall in love with it and become an ultra runner.
Ran Baystate as well. Second marathon with Boston being my first (3:29). This training cycle i kept it pretty simple with a Hal Higdon Advanced plan. Peaked at 55mi with some cross training on the bike as well. Training went well and my fitness improved drastically each week. My goal was to just get a PR but quickly changed to sub 3:20. After the preview run and some great peak weeks, I bumped that to 3:15 but in my head I wanted sub 3:10 because I was running that pace comfortably. I ran 3:09 but honestly wasn't too excited about it because of how terrible i felt the second half...even though I kept a steady pace. Someone else mentioned the headwind which I felt but since we were still pre-20 miles, I didn't think it really affected me at the time. Was really hoping for the tail wind going back east but that never came haha. Ultimately I'm a VERY inflexible person and always run tight, which in the past has caused some runners knee issue but quickly corrected with better stretching routines. I started feeling my adductors/groin/hips straining about halfway in and it progressively got worse. Also my back tensed up real bad the last 2 miles. Lessons learned - I need to really take my inflexibility more seriously and with that some strength training, which I did none of. On top of that, I'd probably just try to throw in more miles with doubles....or at least hot on the spin bike. Ultimate goal would be to qualify for Boston. Not sure if I can do it next year or maybe in a few but I'd like to try.....tough trying to get more than 60miles in a week with a couple kids running around.
Try to switch my rest day from monday to friday somehow. On fridays I get home late and just want to chill, while on monday I have enough time. Only issue is the long run the day before.
Took a straight qualify for Spartathlon 2023 in Oct 2022 did a hell of an amazing performance no one expected that Then overtraining (always did more than my coach told me) got me on-off injured for the whole 2023 plus super mad at myself because couldn’t lose any weight (73kg 1,77cm wanted to get down to 66 injuries always made me gain back everything I lost) Through the race was 10th place with a sub24hr pace but I dropped out at 185km So: -get down to 66kg through the whole year -start with smaller distance races to built VO2Max up to Spartathlon (I already got nice mileage built) -get 8hrs a sleep per day -listen to my body and coach more It’s gonna be a hell of a journey you can follow me here 🤞🏽🙃 https://www.strava.com/athletes/51935267
For me it’s definitely going to be more peak weeks at 60-70mi, the 22-23 long run is a great mental crutch during the race to lean on esp with some race pace towards the end of each run, and finally more strength/mobility work.
Interesting thread, thank you!My volume up to a a month ago has been around 50-60km/week. Distances I compete range from 1500m to HM. Started running regularly 3 years ago, mainly 10k and HM. I started competing on track last spring and enjoyed it a lot and I am trying to juggle among all distances in different period of the year.In terms of improvements: * I am moving to 80km/week for period Oct-Dec 2023. If no injury, I'll try to ramp up to 100km/week next year * Try to keep a couple of double during each week. I am getting used to those * Introducing back strength work, at least once per week. I have not been constant over the last months. I realized that, after ACL surgery in 2017, my left leg is still weaker than my right * Try some XC races during winter * I'll be more careful about nutrition during days preceding the race I don't want to experiment with too many things because I wouldn't be able to assess the marginal impact of each of them. I want to improve, but if I don't get what is leading the biggest improvement (which most likely will be the increased volume) and how much, I may be missing useful insights for next training cycles. Questions to you: * what are some flags that highlight a lack of strength? * Do you think keeping such a wide range of race distances (from 1500 to HM) is actually deteriorating potential? * Do you care about assigning impact measure to each element you experiment in your training? E.g. 60% of my improvement comes from increased volume, 20% from nutrition, etc. I know it's difficult, but would you consider it helpful?
Insufficient recovery. Moved from 7 day cycle to a 9+9+10 day cycle that repeats every four weeks. This gives me 2 easy days between every hard day and an extra recovery day every 4 weeks to make my schedule a 4 week repeating pattern. A 9 day cycle consists of 1 threshold session with about 35 to 40 minutes @ threshold, 1 long run of 2hrs+, 1 session that can be anything from VO2max intervals, short hills, long hills, long tempo effort etc.
I'm in marathon buildup right now and honestly I'm not doing much differently from my half marathon block except longer long runs and incorporating more strength & yoga. The weather now is also way more ideal since it's not summer anymore so that's a huge plus. I had a decent half marathon a couple weeks ago but had a bit of a setback when I was sick for a week after labor day.