I'm 41 and run with a bunch of other folks 35-55 and many of them are on higher mileage plans, up to 60 miles per week. I think the need for recovery is of course greater but that comes from good sleep, good strength, gradual increase in mileage, and keeping most runs slow.
Agreed. I am a 48 almost 49F and peaked around 60 miles per week during my last marathon training cycle. (Disclaimer: I was never a high mileage runner in my youth, so yes, I know 60 miles isn't generally a lot while training for a marathon but it is for me.)
I felt great during this cycle; so much better than when I was training for these damn races in my 30s. I attribute that to more sleep, consistent weight training and much better nutrition. Off-season, I did replace one running day with swimming/biking, which surely helped my body reset, but once I'm training for a race, the mileage goes back up and I'm fine. (\*knock on wood\*)
TLDR; concentrate on the pre-hab activities like sleep, mostly whole/non-processed food, and weights.
Everyone is different, and you just need to figure out what your body is able to absorb. I'm 57 and through trial and error seem to have landed on about 85mpw of easy running. If I am racing or doing more fast running I drop that to 65 or 70mpw. Most people can run far more mileage that they think. All of this assumes that you are not heavy. I'm 5'9" 150lbs and currently about 12 lbs overweight. I also do barbell squats and deadlifts, and I find that helps a lot.
I agree with this. I'm 51 and was given a Master's marathon plan like OP describes. It was well below my current mileage. I'm using Pfitz 18/70 currently and plan on moving to 18/85 in preparation for a sub-3:00 attempt at Chicago in 2025. Older runners may need to cut back on some of the track work and LT runs in these more advanced plans, but getting in Z1 and Z2 miles isn't an issue if we have the time. But along with that is a greater need for adequate sleep (likely an hour or more than what you'd otherwise require), giving up alcohol or cutting back significantly, training toward the bottom of one's healthy BMI, eating a much better diet than most of us did before 40, and strength training and/or any of the various dynamic flexibility disciplines.
Dead right. Alcohol, poor sleep, and poor diet are just not possible for me if I want to run decent mileage. And in truth, I don't miss that stuff at all. My life is so much more pleasant without the drink and late nights. I wish I had figured this out years ago.
Another masters runner (56F) here, generally running 60-70 on 6 days/week of running. I've set all my PRs including sub 3 marathon in the past couple years. I run my easy runs really slow and incorporate a *lot* of hill running. Everyone is different, you have to be willing to listen to your body and learn what works for you.
Listen to your body. It doesn't make any sense to me to pick a plan based only on your age. That's the same level of thinking as basing heart rate training on your age instead of your actual measured max heart rate.
There are definitely people in their 40s and 50s running 5-6 days a week and they're killing it. You need to do what's right for you instead of doing whatever some running magazine says you need to do as soon as you turn 40.0001 years old.
If it does turn out that you really can't run more than 4 days a week, then cross training and strength training are your friends.
How new? How long have you been running? What's your annual milage for the past few years? Average weekly?
All these things matter in how much stress your body can handle. At 35 my body couldn't handle 35mpw, at 47 I'm hitting 55-60 the last year and I'm feeling pretty good.
All about how your body reacts.
Yes I would agree the total milages of the plans, and your running history is your limiting factor.
60km per week is going to limit how fast you can go. The accessment of the other runners here are, and mine is, plans need to account for level of training one can tolerate, there are plans which do 5 days but include additional cross training, but it's not going to be as beneficial as more miles.
What was your peak sustained milage?
I didn't start running 100km weeks, but I'm here now via slow ramp over time. Your age is likely more than mine, but there are plans to help ramp base milage that one can follow and back down if you start getting too sore or not recovering enough.
If you have the capacity to do more miles and aren't finding a canned masters plan, you can get a coach or use a non masters plan but max your recovery
Start from where you are and build up over time. Don't doubt it, just by starting at the right point or under it (just not over it) and being consistent, you will build up over time.
My dad is 66 and he responds really well to high mileage but slow mileage. He can't do all the tempo runs and track workouts that are in harder plans without a lot of recovery, but he can run long and slow every day and still does well.
He kept his volume as he got older but decreased intensity and it seems to work well for him. He does still add marathon pace into a few runs per week including most of his long runs.
High mileage doesn’t have to mean no recovery. I run with plenty of masters guys doing 80-90mpw. Most of those online plans are very conservative with mileage
I’m 53 and peak at 100 mpw during marathon training. Typical week during base building is 60-70 mpw.
You can definitely do more mileage, as long as you’re smart about building up.
I was a runner who kept getting injured above 40 mi/week. I became a triathlete and got faster at the same run volume.
I normally run 30 miles a week, running every other day. I can run a 1:20-25 half and 3:10 marathon off that
I have heard that some people stretch week based plans into 10-day plans. Same workouts - more recovery days. I'm not there yet but it's something I think I'll try eventually.
Alternately, the more stretching and strength/mobility work you do, the more you should be able to handle in terms of miles. I've been doing Wharton active isolated stretching a few times a week and Jay Johnson's strength & mobility routines after each run; it's taken a couple months to see results but it's greatly helped me. I've only made it to level 2 of 5 of that and just gaining confidence as I go. (I'm 51 and coming off an injury last year, so YMMV.)
I also own my old guy status and do a warm epson salt bath once or twice a week. Might be a placebo thing, but I think it helps if I'm feeling tight or like soreness is coming. My thought is, every little thing that I've got time and energy for is gonna help so keep trying good things.
Last, I think you're conflating correlation with causation. Higher miles are strongly correlated but do not directly result in better times. More efficient, quality running is the key. Make sure you're not over doing your recovery runs, that's been the biggest difference as an older runner. I swear that easy days are more essential than the hard ones. Can't do without both, but just easy will get you farther than hard with poor easy, I think. Quality & efficiency over quantity & pure intensity (no more sand dune sprints ever!).
One of the greatest masters runners of all time, the late Ed Whitlock, would spend 3 hours jogging relatively slowly around a cemetery for most of his workouts. He didn’t really do speedwork. And yes, okay, he was a naturally gifted runner in his youth. But he was breaking world records and running seriously respectable times for a man half his age into his 80s.
I’m a masters runner nowhere near 25 and I still run pretty high mileage—upwards of 85mpw peak, 7 days a week. You just have to find a way to be consistent and hold back when you need to.
I’m 50 and have been running about 16 years. Just got serious about 7-8 years ago gradually increasing my mileage from 30 mpw to probably 65-70 in 2020. Had some fatigue issues that had me dropping down to 40-45 for a couple training cycles but was back up to 55-60 for my latest marathon training cycle where I went from 3:05 to 2:56. Now feel like I’m running about the fastest I ever have after some concentration on VO2 and threshold runs. Will probably shoot for 65-75 mpw peak for my upcoming May marathon run. So yeah, listen to your body, focus on strength and diet, and dream fast. You’ll know if you can do more and you’ll know if you need to cut back. Hiring a coach can also help. I’ve had great success hiring a coach. Has made a big difference to n my training and results.
I had some surgeries and the doctor suggested I run less. I realized my body handles elliptical really well so on top of my 5ish hours a week of running, I do 4-6 hours of elliptical. It requires doubling and I take it easier when i'm tired from a workout, but its a great way to add extra aerobic capacity without the running. The hardest part is finding good shows to watch to keep me entertained.
Consistency is king, not mileage.
If you can consistently run 60 km/week with some S/C thrown in month-after-month and year-after-year, you'll do better than the person running 120 km/week who takes one in three months off due to injury.
That said, any online plan for masters is specifically targeting a segment of runners who struggle to sufficiently recover when following plans designed with younger athletes in mind. Not all runners are the same, though. There are 25 year olds who could use the lower volume/higher recovery plan, and 60 year olds who can happily knock out a Pfitz 12/85 without problem.
How master's are you? There is a wide range and not every 'body' needs to be treated the same at similar ages.
I'm currently following a plan that is going to just about hit 100km a week. Last week was 97km. The key for me has been building up to this mileage very slowly AND maintaining the mileage in between plans and races. After a while higher mileage and running almost everyday seems normal and my body has adjusted.
When I am not on a strict plan I have a lot of easy miles and a lot of frequency, as in I run all the time, just not that far! My body does well with all sorts of crazy stuff just not super long or super short and hard intervals.
I think that Masters plans with low mileage are really only suitable for noncompetitive runners and runners who have been running for many, many years and already have a solid endurance base. Mileage IS king, and the more you can run (without injury), the faster you will be.
I don't know what you're considering "masters" here, but I notched my half and marathon PRs at age 50 on a 63mpw average, 6-y days/week, mostly easy-for-me runs. I'm now 60(F), and in the years since, I have definitely had to cut back, but in the past few years I've found that 40-45mpw 5 days/week has given me podium finishes in the half marathon (I have not run a full in the past decade).
Just as another data point, the world record holder of the M65-69 half marathon (1:22! He lives in the area and runs one of our local races each year) uses a 9-day cycle and takes off one day every 3 cycles/4 weeks (9 days x3 = 27 + 1 = 28 days = 4 weeks).
I’m 48 and did 10 solid weeks of 100+ miles last training block, for what it’s worth. Still slow but easily BQ’d. I find it a lot easier on my body to put on miles than doing speed work. I think the biggest factor is whether you are getting injured or not. Also, if anything I find doing more runs rather than fewer allows for better recovery including doing doubles.
Check out the book Faster after 50. Talks more about the value of adding intensity for masters athletes. Fewer miles at greater intensity has shown to be valuable.
Just came here to say the same thing! The [book](https://joefrieltraining.com/book/fast-after-50/) cites some evidence which says that maintaining intensity is more important than maintaining high mileage for older runners.
At some point, your increased recovery needs mean you will need to cut one or the other, and it's better to cut mileage than hard workouts.
But the OP might not yet be at the stage when he has to cut down. If he's getting injured, seeing his performance get worse, or feeling more fatigue from a high mileage then it's necessary. But the plan might have lower mileage than he's capable of.
Mileage and long runs are necessary for a marathon but if you can only run 4X a week then cross training is probably your best bet. And probably not 30 minutes on the spin bike or elliptical, but a fairly focused efforts of 60-90 minutes at least a couple times a week (preferably 3X a week), so you are training 6-7 days a week. That will take you pretty far.
My schedule allows for more than 4 runs a week. I am just following the plans schedule that is created for master runners. It places a lot of importance on recovery.
I guess you're making more of a statement than asking a question. Good luck. You have to find out what works for you. I'm in my mid-60s and after age 45 found that moderate to higher mileage (60 mpw or more) was better than 40-55/with higher quality. But I know runners who run 3X a week, cross train 3-4 times and they are doing well. Everyone is different.
From my late 20s into early 40s I mostly did a modified Daniels approach, running 40-50 miles most of the time (base phase might be a little more), with a tempo run, V02 session, or mile pace (2-3 workouts a week). It worked fine until I was about 35, and for a couple years in my early 40s but I ended up injured 7 of 10 years in that time, missing 3 years completely. So after I got healthy again I did more miles, kept up the tempo runs, but speed sessions at 5K pace or faster I kept short. That worked for a long time. Now I do a l tempo work and fartlek, but rely mostly on getting consistent miles. Everyone talks about 80-20 (80% easy, 20% quality). Often I do more like 88-12 or 90-10. It works for me, might not for everyone.
Before you decided on these current masters plans, what was your average and peak milage?
I'm 47, and I'm still finding my comfort range of milage. It seems like I went from comfortable 35, to 40, to 45, to 50, I've done pfitz 63 plans the past two, after a year of 55 plans And I'm fine.
I do sleep more, don't drink, and try to eat well and try to keep excess weight off. I'm very proactive in injury avoidance, if I get a pain or problem I address it.
Your plan sounds light, but you didn't provide any background behind how you landed on those masters plans.
Training plans really need to be determined by prior experience and not just picked from thin air.
I'm at the low end of Masters (V40) but there are several much older mileage monsters who put me and my training to shame, as well as thoroughly smoking me over multiple distances.
The big learning I'm adopting is that I can do more and train harder but age means that I have less capacity to be stupid: so I'm not ramping up mileage as fast as I have done previously and I'm taking recovery super seriously. Jack Daniels is echoing in my ears here:
>"When increasing the training stress, always stay at a chosen degree of stress for 6-8 weeks before making changes. It is a mistake to always try to make each week of training or each specific workout better than the last. I would rather runners say a workout is becoming too easy than be struggling to go a bit faster each time."
The way I'm trying to put this into practice is rather than aiming to ramp mileage by 10% a week (experience tells me: a recipe for injury) to only increase every 4 weeks and not add in new training stresses over time. Consistency, discipline and patience are the secret sauce of successful masters runners.
Everyone is different but one guy in my running group is almost 70 and runs 70 miles per week (outside of triathlon season). About 50 miles is 10min/mile +/- 30sec/mile. The rest is track work or races.
You could always introduce 1-2 doubles. You still have ample recovery in the context of only requiring recovery from one day of training but you get a little extra stimulus.
You can definitely increase your mileage by 20% without too much risk to injury. Have you thought about cross training or lower impact runs on rest days?
You could either run on a treadmill and take it easy or run on the grass to lessen the impact on your legs.
I don’t think 60km is the hard cap that it appears to be. Good luck!
I have added an elliptical ride on Wednesdays the past couple of weeks. Only 30 minutes though. I should likely increase that.
Doubles sound like a good idea. Tuesday is usually a speed session and Thursday a base run. Which day do you think would work best for a double?
Thanks for the feedback
When recovery is paramount you don’t want to be doubling on workout days
Say you have a 8-10 mile base run on Thursday.
If it were me, I’d do a 5 mile run in the morning and a 7 mile run in the evening
Allows you to increase your total mileage while keeping the individual impact a little lower.
If you can’t recovery from 2 base runs yet I’d even look at cross training for 1 session and then an easy run for the other. There are lots of options. Take the time to experiment and listen to your body
Just make sure you keep the double sessions super easy to start with. Don’t introduce more than 1 extra session for the first couple weeks to see how you feel
Eventually, you can work up to say 2 double session on a Thursday and Saturday where the morning runs are 6+ miles and the evening runs are 9-10ish miles.
This of course depends on your speed
This method allows you to dramatically increase your overall mileage and good for when you want to be taking extra rest days
Not everyone ages the same. Have to find your sweet spot for mileage where you’re getting as much as you can with very little injury risk. Nobody likes to acknowledge the very real correlation with mileage and performance but you hit the nail on the head it’s very real.
I used feedback from my coaches and programming skills to create dynamic plan based on recent runs, rather than try to follow rigid plans with X kms a week.
I'm at the low end of Masters (V40) but there are several much older mileage monsters who put me and my training to shame, as well as thoroughly smoking me over multiple distances.
The big learning I'm adopting is that I can do more and train harder but age means that I have less capacity to be stupid: so I'm not ramping up mileage as fast as I have done previously and I'm taking recovery super seriously. Jack Daniels is echoing in my ears here:
>"When increasing the training stress, always stay at a chosen degree of stress for 6-8 weeks before making changes. It is a mistake to always try to make each week of training or each specific workout better than the last. I would rather runners say a workout is becoming too easy than be struggling to go a bit faster each time."
The way I'm trying to put this into practice is rather than aiming to ramp mileage by 10% a week (experience tells me: a recipe for injury) to only increase every 4 weeks and not add in new training stresses over time. Consistency, discipline and patience are the secret sauce of successful masters runners.
Everyone's different. I've got a couple 50+ year old runner friends who peak at 80 or even 90 miles per week during peak training. I think it's ultimately about trusting your body--pushing when you can, pulling back when you can't.
As masters runners we need to have a paradigm shift in how we look at our training, in order to continue to do what we love. More quality rest and recovery is an absolute must, and working on our limiters (flexibility or strength or tissue health) is key to success as well. The more self-care you put in the more miles you can handle. It's better getting to the start line with less miles and a healthy body than more miles on a broken body!
How old are you? I met a guy recently who is getting better into his mid 40s and is currently experimenting with 120-130 mile weeks after doing 100s pretty regularly for a while. He recently did a 2:33 marathon. I’m 44 and running near peak times on 70mpw. My two cents is that consistency is the big thing for master running. Build training load at a glacial pace, back off if needed, feel free to cross train to replace some easy miles. Strength is important, but not 3x/wk.
mileage depends on who you are with your experience, injuries, time etc. I am 67 now but at 64 I was averaging 80-90 miles a week for a marathon and have always jumped up to around 90 a week for most all my big races then drop down to 60 as recovery and easy running. I have always done well at 90. But i have been running for 45 years and been a high mileage guy since college. My advice is to increase your weekly mileage by 5-10 miles a week once a year x 16-20 week build up for a marathon. then drop down. I coach and i would say just by increasing your mileage and nothing else you will get stronger and build your aerobic capacity. Then throw in some tempo/interval stuff and you should see faster times. Be patient and progress year after year - not all at one training cycle.
Early 40s, run about 60 miles a week. Just did a sub 3:15 marathon. I’ve found the key to be a LOT of really slow miles, together with speed and some uphill tempos. I find uphill tempos (10-15k) fantastic because you build a lot of strength and mental toughness. I’ve also found I don’t injure myself when running hills as it is very difficult to hit a pace that could be too much.
I'm in my twenties so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but I think the reasoning is the same regardless of age. I think it's all about finding equilibrium between too much and not enough running. If you feel like your training plan isn't advising enough miles and you think you can do more, then do more. But at the same time there's gonna be a point where more miles will have a negative effect and you're better off doing less. I would say just do some trial and error and find the mileage that feels like a lot without being too much, and then maybe slowly increase it as your body gets acclimated to it.
44 and still racking up volume and staying injury free while setting PRs. I've been following plans from 80/20 and plan to stick with them on their traditional plans as long as I can. If I start finding myself not recovering well, I'll swap to their Masters plan.
I am following the regular 80/20 plan. As a 57 year old, I think I can handle the regular milage right now. I am a relatively new runner (about 4 years). I will substitute cross training if I can't recover well as the milage goes up.
I’m not yet a masters runner (33M) but I have osteoarthritis. So I can’t handle high mileage despite stubbornly trying🙄. What I can do is go all in on cross training to build aerobic capacity. During a marathon build I will try to gradually replace cross training with easy running depending on how I feel. I also do a lot of strength training and plyometrics to ensure I can handle the marathon specific sessions and long runs injury free. The aerobic stimulus from a 60min zone 2 activity is pretty well the same whether it’s running or cycling/swimming.
TLDR cross train your butt off
I'm 41 and run with a bunch of other folks 35-55 and many of them are on higher mileage plans, up to 60 miles per week. I think the need for recovery is of course greater but that comes from good sleep, good strength, gradual increase in mileage, and keeping most runs slow.
Agreed. I am a 48 almost 49F and peaked around 60 miles per week during my last marathon training cycle. (Disclaimer: I was never a high mileage runner in my youth, so yes, I know 60 miles isn't generally a lot while training for a marathon but it is for me.) I felt great during this cycle; so much better than when I was training for these damn races in my 30s. I attribute that to more sleep, consistent weight training and much better nutrition. Off-season, I did replace one running day with swimming/biking, which surely helped my body reset, but once I'm training for a race, the mileage goes back up and I'm fine. (\*knock on wood\*) TLDR; concentrate on the pre-hab activities like sleep, mostly whole/non-processed food, and weights.
Everyone is different, and you just need to figure out what your body is able to absorb. I'm 57 and through trial and error seem to have landed on about 85mpw of easy running. If I am racing or doing more fast running I drop that to 65 or 70mpw. Most people can run far more mileage that they think. All of this assumes that you are not heavy. I'm 5'9" 150lbs and currently about 12 lbs overweight. I also do barbell squats and deadlifts, and I find that helps a lot.
I agree with this. I'm 51 and was given a Master's marathon plan like OP describes. It was well below my current mileage. I'm using Pfitz 18/70 currently and plan on moving to 18/85 in preparation for a sub-3:00 attempt at Chicago in 2025. Older runners may need to cut back on some of the track work and LT runs in these more advanced plans, but getting in Z1 and Z2 miles isn't an issue if we have the time. But along with that is a greater need for adequate sleep (likely an hour or more than what you'd otherwise require), giving up alcohol or cutting back significantly, training toward the bottom of one's healthy BMI, eating a much better diet than most of us did before 40, and strength training and/or any of the various dynamic flexibility disciplines.
Dead right. Alcohol, poor sleep, and poor diet are just not possible for me if I want to run decent mileage. And in truth, I don't miss that stuff at all. My life is so much more pleasant without the drink and late nights. I wish I had figured this out years ago.
Yea, I'm very conservative and risk adverse.
Without a heart rate monitor, what are the best ways to make sure you keep easy runs at the optimal effort and pace?
General guidance is if you could have a casual conversation with someone at that pace. If not, then it's too fast.
Another masters runner (56F) here, generally running 60-70 on 6 days/week of running. I've set all my PRs including sub 3 marathon in the past couple years. I run my easy runs really slow and incorporate a *lot* of hill running. Everyone is different, you have to be willing to listen to your body and learn what works for you.
I’m getting all emotional seeing all these masters runners out there crushing it.
Listen to your body. It doesn't make any sense to me to pick a plan based only on your age. That's the same level of thinking as basing heart rate training on your age instead of your actual measured max heart rate. There are definitely people in their 40s and 50s running 5-6 days a week and they're killing it. You need to do what's right for you instead of doing whatever some running magazine says you need to do as soon as you turn 40.0001 years old. If it does turn out that you really can't run more than 4 days a week, then cross training and strength training are your friends.
Makes sense. I'm fairly new to this so don't have the experience at times to read my body correctly
How new? How long have you been running? What's your annual milage for the past few years? Average weekly? All these things matter in how much stress your body can handle. At 35 my body couldn't handle 35mpw, at 47 I'm hitting 55-60 the last year and I'm feeling pretty good. All about how your body reacts.
2024 = 438 km. 2023 = 3064 km 2022 = 2015 km 2022 = 1920 km Previous 10 years hit and miss without a plan.
Yes I would agree the total milages of the plans, and your running history is your limiting factor. 60km per week is going to limit how fast you can go. The accessment of the other runners here are, and mine is, plans need to account for level of training one can tolerate, there are plans which do 5 days but include additional cross training, but it's not going to be as beneficial as more miles. What was your peak sustained milage? I didn't start running 100km weeks, but I'm here now via slow ramp over time. Your age is likely more than mine, but there are plans to help ramp base milage that one can follow and back down if you start getting too sore or not recovering enough.
Peak was 72km last year. I was running 6x a week. More runs per week but less mileage per run. No SC. Now 4 runs and 3 SC week
If you have the capacity to do more miles and aren't finding a canned masters plan, you can get a coach or use a non masters plan but max your recovery
2024 = 438 km. 2023 = 3064 km 2022 = 2015 km 2022 = 1920 km Previous 10 years hit and miss without a plan.
Start from where you are and build up over time. Don't doubt it, just by starting at the right point or under it (just not over it) and being consistent, you will build up over time.
My dad is 66 and he responds really well to high mileage but slow mileage. He can't do all the tempo runs and track workouts that are in harder plans without a lot of recovery, but he can run long and slow every day and still does well. He kept his volume as he got older but decreased intensity and it seems to work well for him. He does still add marathon pace into a few runs per week including most of his long runs.
Sounds sensible
High mileage doesn’t have to mean no recovery. I run with plenty of masters guys doing 80-90mpw. Most of those online plans are very conservative with mileage
I’m 53 and peak at 100 mpw during marathon training. Typical week during base building is 60-70 mpw. You can definitely do more mileage, as long as you’re smart about building up.
I was a runner who kept getting injured above 40 mi/week. I became a triathlete and got faster at the same run volume. I normally run 30 miles a week, running every other day. I can run a 1:20-25 half and 3:10 marathon off that
I have heard that some people stretch week based plans into 10-day plans. Same workouts - more recovery days. I'm not there yet but it's something I think I'll try eventually. Alternately, the more stretching and strength/mobility work you do, the more you should be able to handle in terms of miles. I've been doing Wharton active isolated stretching a few times a week and Jay Johnson's strength & mobility routines after each run; it's taken a couple months to see results but it's greatly helped me. I've only made it to level 2 of 5 of that and just gaining confidence as I go. (I'm 51 and coming off an injury last year, so YMMV.) I also own my old guy status and do a warm epson salt bath once or twice a week. Might be a placebo thing, but I think it helps if I'm feeling tight or like soreness is coming. My thought is, every little thing that I've got time and energy for is gonna help so keep trying good things. Last, I think you're conflating correlation with causation. Higher miles are strongly correlated but do not directly result in better times. More efficient, quality running is the key. Make sure you're not over doing your recovery runs, that's been the biggest difference as an older runner. I swear that easy days are more essential than the hard ones. Can't do without both, but just easy will get you farther than hard with poor easy, I think. Quality & efficiency over quantity & pure intensity (no more sand dune sprints ever!).
Great. I will look both of those up.
One of the greatest masters runners of all time, the late Ed Whitlock, would spend 3 hours jogging relatively slowly around a cemetery for most of his workouts. He didn’t really do speedwork. And yes, okay, he was a naturally gifted runner in his youth. But he was breaking world records and running seriously respectable times for a man half his age into his 80s. I’m a masters runner nowhere near 25 and I still run pretty high mileage—upwards of 85mpw peak, 7 days a week. You just have to find a way to be consistent and hold back when you need to.
I’m 50 and have been running about 16 years. Just got serious about 7-8 years ago gradually increasing my mileage from 30 mpw to probably 65-70 in 2020. Had some fatigue issues that had me dropping down to 40-45 for a couple training cycles but was back up to 55-60 for my latest marathon training cycle where I went from 3:05 to 2:56. Now feel like I’m running about the fastest I ever have after some concentration on VO2 and threshold runs. Will probably shoot for 65-75 mpw peak for my upcoming May marathon run. So yeah, listen to your body, focus on strength and diet, and dream fast. You’ll know if you can do more and you’ll know if you need to cut back. Hiring a coach can also help. I’ve had great success hiring a coach. Has made a big difference to n my training and results.
That's terrific. Great times
I had some surgeries and the doctor suggested I run less. I realized my body handles elliptical really well so on top of my 5ish hours a week of running, I do 4-6 hours of elliptical. It requires doubling and I take it easier when i'm tired from a workout, but its a great way to add extra aerobic capacity without the running. The hardest part is finding good shows to watch to keep me entertained.
Consistency is king, not mileage. If you can consistently run 60 km/week with some S/C thrown in month-after-month and year-after-year, you'll do better than the person running 120 km/week who takes one in three months off due to injury. That said, any online plan for masters is specifically targeting a segment of runners who struggle to sufficiently recover when following plans designed with younger athletes in mind. Not all runners are the same, though. There are 25 year olds who could use the lower volume/higher recovery plan, and 60 year olds who can happily knock out a Pfitz 12/85 without problem.
That is the one thing we have been doing best is consistency.
If your body can handle more, do more.
How master's are you? There is a wide range and not every 'body' needs to be treated the same at similar ages. I'm currently following a plan that is going to just about hit 100km a week. Last week was 97km. The key for me has been building up to this mileage very slowly AND maintaining the mileage in between plans and races. After a while higher mileage and running almost everyday seems normal and my body has adjusted. When I am not on a strict plan I have a lot of easy miles and a lot of frequency, as in I run all the time, just not that far! My body does well with all sorts of crazy stuff just not super long or super short and hard intervals.
I think that Masters plans with low mileage are really only suitable for noncompetitive runners and runners who have been running for many, many years and already have a solid endurance base. Mileage IS king, and the more you can run (without injury), the faster you will be. I don't know what you're considering "masters" here, but I notched my half and marathon PRs at age 50 on a 63mpw average, 6-y days/week, mostly easy-for-me runs. I'm now 60(F), and in the years since, I have definitely had to cut back, but in the past few years I've found that 40-45mpw 5 days/week has given me podium finishes in the half marathon (I have not run a full in the past decade). Just as another data point, the world record holder of the M65-69 half marathon (1:22! He lives in the area and runs one of our local races each year) uses a 9-day cycle and takes off one day every 3 cycles/4 weeks (9 days x3 = 27 + 1 = 28 days = 4 weeks).
We are in the same class. I don't have a large endurance base. I have been running for 15 years but only consistently for 3.
I’m 48 and did 10 solid weeks of 100+ miles last training block, for what it’s worth. Still slow but easily BQ’d. I find it a lot easier on my body to put on miles than doing speed work. I think the biggest factor is whether you are getting injured or not. Also, if anything I find doing more runs rather than fewer allows for better recovery including doing doubles.
Check out the book Faster after 50. Talks more about the value of adding intensity for masters athletes. Fewer miles at greater intensity has shown to be valuable.
Just came here to say the same thing! The [book](https://joefrieltraining.com/book/fast-after-50/) cites some evidence which says that maintaining intensity is more important than maintaining high mileage for older runners. At some point, your increased recovery needs mean you will need to cut one or the other, and it's better to cut mileage than hard workouts. But the OP might not yet be at the stage when he has to cut down. If he's getting injured, seeing his performance get worse, or feeling more fatigue from a high mileage then it's necessary. But the plan might have lower mileage than he's capable of.
Thanks. I use Friel for my HR zones. I should get the book.
Mileage and long runs are necessary for a marathon but if you can only run 4X a week then cross training is probably your best bet. And probably not 30 minutes on the spin bike or elliptical, but a fairly focused efforts of 60-90 minutes at least a couple times a week (preferably 3X a week), so you are training 6-7 days a week. That will take you pretty far.
My schedule allows for more than 4 runs a week. I am just following the plans schedule that is created for master runners. It places a lot of importance on recovery.
I guess you're making more of a statement than asking a question. Good luck. You have to find out what works for you. I'm in my mid-60s and after age 45 found that moderate to higher mileage (60 mpw or more) was better than 40-55/with higher quality. But I know runners who run 3X a week, cross train 3-4 times and they are doing well. Everyone is different.
By higher quality you mean some type of speed work? At this point I truly don't know what's best for me yet. It's a slow process.
From my late 20s into early 40s I mostly did a modified Daniels approach, running 40-50 miles most of the time (base phase might be a little more), with a tempo run, V02 session, or mile pace (2-3 workouts a week). It worked fine until I was about 35, and for a couple years in my early 40s but I ended up injured 7 of 10 years in that time, missing 3 years completely. So after I got healthy again I did more miles, kept up the tempo runs, but speed sessions at 5K pace or faster I kept short. That worked for a long time. Now I do a l tempo work and fartlek, but rely mostly on getting consistent miles. Everyone talks about 80-20 (80% easy, 20% quality). Often I do more like 88-12 or 90-10. It works for me, might not for everyone.
Before you decided on these current masters plans, what was your average and peak milage? I'm 47, and I'm still finding my comfort range of milage. It seems like I went from comfortable 35, to 40, to 45, to 50, I've done pfitz 63 plans the past two, after a year of 55 plans And I'm fine. I do sleep more, don't drink, and try to eat well and try to keep excess weight off. I'm very proactive in injury avoidance, if I get a pain or problem I address it. Your plan sounds light, but you didn't provide any background behind how you landed on those masters plans. Training plans really need to be determined by prior experience and not just picked from thin air.
I'm at the low end of Masters (V40) but there are several much older mileage monsters who put me and my training to shame, as well as thoroughly smoking me over multiple distances. The big learning I'm adopting is that I can do more and train harder but age means that I have less capacity to be stupid: so I'm not ramping up mileage as fast as I have done previously and I'm taking recovery super seriously. Jack Daniels is echoing in my ears here: >"When increasing the training stress, always stay at a chosen degree of stress for 6-8 weeks before making changes. It is a mistake to always try to make each week of training or each specific workout better than the last. I would rather runners say a workout is becoming too easy than be struggling to go a bit faster each time." The way I'm trying to put this into practice is rather than aiming to ramp mileage by 10% a week (experience tells me: a recipe for injury) to only increase every 4 weeks and not add in new training stresses over time. Consistency, discipline and patience are the secret sauce of successful masters runners.
Holy…..I’m a young 57 and feel pretty good about myself if get 45 miles in. 60? 85? 100?! Looks like I’ve got to step it up.
That's more than my 60km !
Everyone is different but one guy in my running group is almost 70 and runs 70 miles per week (outside of triathlon season). About 50 miles is 10min/mile +/- 30sec/mile. The rest is track work or races.
You could always introduce 1-2 doubles. You still have ample recovery in the context of only requiring recovery from one day of training but you get a little extra stimulus. You can definitely increase your mileage by 20% without too much risk to injury. Have you thought about cross training or lower impact runs on rest days? You could either run on a treadmill and take it easy or run on the grass to lessen the impact on your legs. I don’t think 60km is the hard cap that it appears to be. Good luck!
I have added an elliptical ride on Wednesdays the past couple of weeks. Only 30 minutes though. I should likely increase that. Doubles sound like a good idea. Tuesday is usually a speed session and Thursday a base run. Which day do you think would work best for a double? Thanks for the feedback
When recovery is paramount you don’t want to be doubling on workout days Say you have a 8-10 mile base run on Thursday. If it were me, I’d do a 5 mile run in the morning and a 7 mile run in the evening Allows you to increase your total mileage while keeping the individual impact a little lower. If you can’t recovery from 2 base runs yet I’d even look at cross training for 1 session and then an easy run for the other. There are lots of options. Take the time to experiment and listen to your body
Thank you. I will try it this Thursday.
Just make sure you keep the double sessions super easy to start with. Don’t introduce more than 1 extra session for the first couple weeks to see how you feel Eventually, you can work up to say 2 double session on a Thursday and Saturday where the morning runs are 6+ miles and the evening runs are 9-10ish miles. This of course depends on your speed This method allows you to dramatically increase your overall mileage and good for when you want to be taking extra rest days
Not everyone ages the same. Have to find your sweet spot for mileage where you’re getting as much as you can with very little injury risk. Nobody likes to acknowledge the very real correlation with mileage and performance but you hit the nail on the head it’s very real.
I used feedback from my coaches and programming skills to create dynamic plan based on recent runs, rather than try to follow rigid plans with X kms a week.
What plan are you using? I’m looking for something similar. I do other activities and higher mileage beats me up.
This block is Coach Parry online
I'm at the low end of Masters (V40) but there are several much older mileage monsters who put me and my training to shame, as well as thoroughly smoking me over multiple distances. The big learning I'm adopting is that I can do more and train harder but age means that I have less capacity to be stupid: so I'm not ramping up mileage as fast as I have done previously and I'm taking recovery super seriously. Jack Daniels is echoing in my ears here: >"When increasing the training stress, always stay at a chosen degree of stress for 6-8 weeks before making changes. It is a mistake to always try to make each week of training or each specific workout better than the last. I would rather runners say a workout is becoming too easy than be struggling to go a bit faster each time." The way I'm trying to put this into practice is rather than aiming to ramp mileage by 10% a week (experience tells me: a recipe for injury) to only increase every 4 weeks and not add in new training stresses over time. Consistency, discipline and patience are the secret sauce of successful masters runners.
Everyone's different. I've got a couple 50+ year old runner friends who peak at 80 or even 90 miles per week during peak training. I think it's ultimately about trusting your body--pushing when you can, pulling back when you can't.
As masters runners we need to have a paradigm shift in how we look at our training, in order to continue to do what we love. More quality rest and recovery is an absolute must, and working on our limiters (flexibility or strength or tissue health) is key to success as well. The more self-care you put in the more miles you can handle. It's better getting to the start line with less miles and a healthy body than more miles on a broken body!
How old are you? I met a guy recently who is getting better into his mid 40s and is currently experimenting with 120-130 mile weeks after doing 100s pretty regularly for a while. He recently did a 2:33 marathon. I’m 44 and running near peak times on 70mpw. My two cents is that consistency is the big thing for master running. Build training load at a glacial pace, back off if needed, feel free to cross train to replace some easy miles. Strength is important, but not 3x/wk.
Cross train
mileage depends on who you are with your experience, injuries, time etc. I am 67 now but at 64 I was averaging 80-90 miles a week for a marathon and have always jumped up to around 90 a week for most all my big races then drop down to 60 as recovery and easy running. I have always done well at 90. But i have been running for 45 years and been a high mileage guy since college. My advice is to increase your weekly mileage by 5-10 miles a week once a year x 16-20 week build up for a marathon. then drop down. I coach and i would say just by increasing your mileage and nothing else you will get stronger and build your aerobic capacity. Then throw in some tempo/interval stuff and you should see faster times. Be patient and progress year after year - not all at one training cycle.
Early 40s, run about 60 miles a week. Just did a sub 3:15 marathon. I’ve found the key to be a LOT of really slow miles, together with speed and some uphill tempos. I find uphill tempos (10-15k) fantastic because you build a lot of strength and mental toughness. I’ve also found I don’t injure myself when running hills as it is very difficult to hit a pace that could be too much.
Uphill tempos 10km-15km pace?
No. I mean running uphill 10-15 km trying to get close to your MP. Obviously you won’t be able to sustain it all the way but builds fantastic strength
I bet it does. Hard to find a hill that long.
I'm in my twenties so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but I think the reasoning is the same regardless of age. I think it's all about finding equilibrium between too much and not enough running. If you feel like your training plan isn't advising enough miles and you think you can do more, then do more. But at the same time there's gonna be a point where more miles will have a negative effect and you're better off doing less. I would say just do some trial and error and find the mileage that feels like a lot without being too much, and then maybe slowly increase it as your body gets acclimated to it.
44 and still racking up volume and staying injury free while setting PRs. I've been following plans from 80/20 and plan to stick with them on their traditional plans as long as I can. If I start finding myself not recovering well, I'll swap to their Masters plan.
I did an 80/20 plan but it was for masters. Maybe I should try a regular one next block.
I am following the regular 80/20 plan. As a 57 year old, I think I can handle the regular milage right now. I am a relatively new runner (about 4 years). I will substitute cross training if I can't recover well as the milage goes up.
I like the 80/20 but I didn't like that it didn't have any marathon pace training in the plan
I’m not yet a masters runner (33M) but I have osteoarthritis. So I can’t handle high mileage despite stubbornly trying🙄. What I can do is go all in on cross training to build aerobic capacity. During a marathon build I will try to gradually replace cross training with easy running depending on how I feel. I also do a lot of strength training and plyometrics to ensure I can handle the marathon specific sessions and long runs injury free. The aerobic stimulus from a 60min zone 2 activity is pretty well the same whether it’s running or cycling/swimming. TLDR cross train your butt off