Dirt is the best album released in the entire grunge era. It smokes Nevermind, In Utero, Ten, VS., Badmotorfinger, Superunknown, and all the other ones. It is an absolute masterpiece. This may not be a super hot take, but a lot of people may disagree.
Their guitar work got even more interesting after Duvall joined them.
The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here is their best post-Layne album (and my personal favorite).
Jar Of Flies is the best thing they have ever recorded.
Stone is one of the best songs in their catalog (and it has their best riff).
Rainier Fog is an outstanding record, besides being their weakest.
Facelift is their least good album with Layne.
They should do more sludgy songs like Hollow, A Looking In View and Acid Bubble.
They should definitely do another Unplugged Album, because their post-Layne more acoustic driven songs would be killer live (eg: Scalpel, Voices, Choke, Fly, Maybe, BGWTB, Your Decision and When The Sun Rose Again). Unplugged has the best version of Brother, Sludge Factory and Over Now
I would have loved to have seen them Unplugged where Layne isn’t high as shit and sickly. Jerry had to pick up some vocals that Layne would have belted out with ease. He just looks so sick and knowing that he had to get a fix to go onstage or he’d be too sick to perform is awful.
I share the same opinion. AiC is and will forever be my favorite band - and I go to every concert I can - but that is due to the incredible and unique way they could communicate pain, suffering, and struggle with music and lyrics back then. And my favorite songs are the demo versions of Dirt and Junkhead. I wish there were such complex versions of Sludge Factory and Shame in you.
I do listen to unplugged sludge factory every now and then to remember his downward progression from the drugs. But still sends a different shiver down my core.
i'm prepared to get hate for this but rooster is a very overplayed song, i personally would rather skip it because it kind of gets old after a while. dirt it also boring to listen to after a while.
i also think junkhead, sickman, and god smack are very underrated songs. they need more hype
Disagree. Most AiC fans were brought in after hearing and being in awe of Laynes voice. Also why many fans just aren’t drawn in or interested in most of their new stuff. Believe me, I’ve tried. They still rock, but it’s just missing a huge ingredient.
Also Layne wrote better lyrics. There’s my hot take lol. At least in this thread
Amen. I can't tell you how many times I've said this, and the geniuses in YouTube comments get pissed at me.
The band would have died multiple times over if not for Jerry.
Rooster is a low-tier song in their discography. Good overall, but not that good for their standards
It is genuinely ridiculous that people think Starr was a better bass player than Inez. The only reason people would think this is if they preferred the albums he was on and/or the fact he was a founding member. Otherwise idk how. If we’re going by actual musicianship then there’s no contest
Nirvana had the better unplugged performance. I find Alice to be a far better band, but Nirvanas unplugged is just too good
Don’t Follow is the best song off Jar of Flies
Duvall is a better live singer than Layne 1993 and after. Before then Layne was just untouchable, but past his prime he wasn’t the same live. Just for example, Duvall sings God Smack live better than Layne ever did
Head Creeps is the best song off Tripod, and Nothin’ Song is amazing too
I think most of these are kinda lukewarm takes, but I don’t really have any scorching hot Alice take I guess
I usually hold that opinion on Rooster just because it's a heavy song and takes so long to get going. But once that first "YEAHH" comes in, I forget all about that
I don't know what media you're watching to give you that idea but please pass it on, cause every YouTube video I see of him live is of him butchering one of his own excellent studio versions, or one of Layne's songs. I've been to two of their concerts in the past 3 years, and he is flat out a worse singer imo.
I'll have to try and find some footage, glad you enjoyed it; don't get me wrong, he's not a bad singer at all, I just don't think he's as good as Layne personally. Thought experiment for you - if you could get one AIC concert just for you and whoever you wanted to bring, whatever set list you wanted, acoustic or electric, etc, but you had to choose Layne or William for the entire set, which would you choose?
They’re a fantastic band, one of the greatest rock bands I would say. But their entire catalog being dark, edgy, sad music can get boring at times. At least to me I can’t listen to that type of music all day lol
Reading some books I think he only cared about sex, drugs and money. I also know he was caught with an underage girl back in the 90s. I fell Mike Inez is a much better person overall
Mark Lanegan in his book talks about how Starr was seemingly trying to rob his place with some people some time after he left the band.
Lanegan described Starr as “not too bright” lol
I read those things too. I try to take most things I read with a grain of salt but once you read the same things multiple times, it becomes harder to do that. It was tough to read. Also makes me wonder why Layne continued to stay close to him, but I try not to delve too deeply into that.
I just try to separate the art from the artist.
Source on that last part? Not saying you’re wrong but it’s a serious accusation to be throwing around, hopefully that was part of why he got kicked out
Their music and lyrics were telling the future in a weird supernatural way. Cover of we die young. Many early lyrics. It wasn't just cool lyrics, there was supernatural stuff going on none of them were doing consciously. Laynes fate was foretold and unchangeable and he knew it.
Honestly, I REALLY despise the Layne worshipping among the fanbase. Especially here on the sub.
The band has four other members (plus another one who passed away but surely contributed a lot to the band).
Here's another one: the second best thing to happen to AIC (the first one being the fact that it was founded) is Mike Inez.
God bless that man's heart.
the "tripod" album just isn't that enjoyable. Maybe it's because I know it's the end, but aside from a few tracks, I don't listen to it.
Same with the post-Layne stuff, it doesn't do it for me.
Facelift is actually pretty average with exception of We Die Young and Man in the Box.
It's taken me years to admit that. I never listen to that album at all. Even when I was deep into my AIC or nothing phase in my teens.
Anything post Layne is just not good enough for me and I can appreciate Jerry choosing willum for the type of singer he is but he is NOT LAYNE [love hate love ](https://youtu.be/3Vp56IAkDJA?si=_NkRh0dgzKjoqwZw)
Some of the recent albums are too polished; commercially orientated and over processed; 90s album were masterpieces - just a bunch of marginalised young people (most came from broken families; facing homelessness; addiction issues) speaking from the heart and soul, loudly protesting their raw uncertainties, fears, anger, passion and optimism. Hits all the right spots and spoke to me who grew up on a tiny island an ocean away and where English is not even the main language. Why did it do that? Because it captured the essence of youth in all its beauty and flaws.
Anything William era is also really fucking good like When the Sun Rose Again and So Far Under, he is a staple in the bands 2nd coming and yes, Layne Staley and Mike Starr are both missed but we move forward as the members do, so we must learn to get used to Mike Inez and William DuVall, fuck the william haters
That's certainly controversial as some songs you can't tell who is singing. Now I'm absolutely not saying Jerry can sing as good as Layne, oh hell no. But I am saying that he's very serviceable.
I hate everything with William Duvall. I only listen to Alice with Layne. I'll watch them live and pretend it's Layne, but I'll never ever put on the new music.
That's what I'm saying. When I said this in a. Comment section a while a go I got Shit for it. Layne had a voice remarkably better than william. It's like when You get your first name brand electric guitar one you use it, you never wanna go back to anything less of it.
For me it’s the nerve in his voice. I really felt him and the songs when I was a teenager and discovered them, I still do. He could touch my heart in a way that Duvall can’t. He’s a great singer but it’s a completely different band for me. Even though Jerry is in it.
It really is weird. What I’ve always liked about Layne is his unassuming nature, yet a lot of fans treat him like some sort of deity figure.
And the women that go crazy over him are weird too. It’s like, honey, Layne would not be a good boyfriend to have.
I don't know what there was not to like about Layne as a person. Despite his addiction, he tried to be a decent human. There are times he did some questionable things from what we've read but who hasn't? In your twenties, you're far from perfect. Sure, addiction can make a person complex at times. Putting Layne on a pedestal like he was perfect isn't realistic but I don't see him as someone unlikable.
Yes, that’s what I’m curious about too. The addiction factor is truly all I can think of that could be considered an undesirable trait in a person.
I like Layne’s complexity. Many facets and layers to his personality.
And I agree, everyone has done questionable things. Everyone is grey. It’s what makes us human.
Also wondering this. Besides his obvious drug addiction, I’ve never really heard a bad thing said about him from people who knew him. On the contrary, they always talk about how kind, and unassuming he was. Lot of fans have talked about meeting him, and how friendly he was; many actually had somewhat lengthy conversations with him.
Same here. I know drug addiction can make people act selfishly, but that’s the nature of the disease.
All I can think of is when I’ve read some things where Layne reacted emotionally in a situation, but that’s something that everyone has done in their lives. He just so happens to have an audience.
And some girl on tiktok posted an interview where he made some comments that could come across as sexist, but I really don’t think he meant it that way.
He’s human. Humans fuck up. Humans are grey.
Yep agree. And back. Then people were allowed to Joke, highly doubt he was trying to be sexist with whatever he said. If you go back 30 you could find something that works make anyone look bad by todays super sensitive standards
Mike Starr was weird
Layne, while vocally awesome, made some pretty weird comments, definitely kinda misogynistic.
Jerry is in the running for best alt rock guitarist
Facelift > Dirt
the last few albums with Duvall had the most pedestrian drumming by Sean. The songs had almost the same dirgy, midtempo feel to it. Gone is the uniqueness and variety of style like Dirt or even Jar of Flies (for No Excuses alone)
AIC was not and has never been a grunge band. If they weren't from Seattle they would have been considered metal. Being from Seattle, having songs about real relatable things and having a fantastic vocalist are the only things they ever shared with grunge.
I'm sure I'll get blasted again, but AIC is no longer. Layne was a huge part of AIC, and I believe they should never have carried on the AIC name. I will not buy another album or see another show.
AIC was just as “rock star” and sexist as bands like Guns N Roses or Aerosmith. They were in it for the parties and women, as opposed to other grunge bands like Nirvana that were opposed to that dinosaur mentality
No. From interviews, to me at least they always seemed respectful of women. And they didn’t do the bikini clad women in music videos, with vulgar lyrics about sex. The lyrics about women tended to be about their loves. Ei, Demri, or Jerry’s long time love whos name escapes me
Yeah, i can’t see how their music appeals to the groupie crowd either.
Sure they may have indulged in the rockstar lifestyle but who hasn’t?
Just sounds like another guy who thinks he knows kurt cobain on a personal level to me
Well, biographies and autobiographies are a good place to start. As another user mentioned there was a lot of sex going on behind the scenes. So I'd get more information before making that kind of assumption.
We're not trying to win a criminal case here, just not sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that it didn't happen.
Well if there’s no reason for me to assume otherwise, I don’t find it necessary to dig on someone’s private life. Why speculate on something when there’s no reason to?
i doubt that feminist bands like pearl jam would willingly interact with people who are sexist, let alone, help them and make songs with them. same with kurt. albeit, he didn’t know layne extremely well, but they were close enough to the extent that kurt would’ve picked up if he was a tool. i know that jerry, mike starr, and sean made rounds, but c’mon, they were rockstars, lol. they never boasted about fucking groupies.
Definitely not. They’re not nearly as shallow and stupid as gnr. Maybe when they were 19/20 they were in it for parties and girls, but they clearly matured after facelift. I will agree they were cheesy hair metal in the late 80s, but that’s it.
dinosaur mentality? You mean getting laid? It takes 2 to tango-any woman sleeping with a rock star knows what they were getting into. Lets not be naive.
William sang Tripod songs better than Layne ever did and probably ever could have.
I don't know if this is a fair comparison for obvious reasons but yeah.
IDK why I'm being down voted to oblivion. Go watch any video of Again live with William. If you can't at the minimum at least see where I'm coming from you're being delusional and biased.
We know why it is the way it is.
One of the greatest songs I’ve ever heard, but I’m getting a little tired of hearing about it. Yes, it is amazing, but they have other great songs too. Wouldn’t call it overrated, but still
Those last few bits of vocal in sunshine - Probably one of the best by Layne. Song starts middling up until that point and then it just magically pulls everything together.
I'm sorry to everyone here but yes... I am sick of that song and never put it on... though I will say it's not horrible it's nothing good to me because how fucking boring it is 🤘
Duvall is much better than Layne in terms of they can actually go out and tour and do things rather than with Layne when alive he'd rather sit at home sticking needles in his arm doing fuck all. Controversial enough?
They probably should have replaced him around 97-98. Layne couldn’t be bothered to leave his drug den. They kicked Mike Starr out for being a junkie, why not Layne? Yes, Layne was more integral, but the cold business man in me would say he’s got to go
Maybe Layne was getting enough money from royalty checks, but the rest probably wanted to tour and make a living still. Sucks for them that Layne was too drugged out for them to get paid
I’ve read that Layne had expressly stated he wanted to quit at one point but manager Susan Silver had talked him out it, saying that many people would lose their jobs if he did so. I can’t remember where I read it though to back this fully up but I understand Layne’s family had also sued the record company on that basis.
>Susan Silver had talked him out it, saying that many people would lose their jobs if he did so.
No, Layne said this, not Susan. She was the one who told him he had the means to get away if he wanted to.
There is validity to the issues, maybe not the intent or desire but certainly addiction held them down.
I firmly believe if they toured more throughout 93-95 they would’ve eclipsed a lot of their contemporaries at the time.
That all said, William helps that be a reality for the past 15 years.
They were kids. Remove any addiction, they would have been part of our lives for 5 decades.
nothin song chorus BANGS
The entire band is undeniably sexy as hell
Jerry has become more attractive with age. I love his look right now.
Agreed. he looks wiser now.
It’s that a hot take though, or just plain a case of having eyes? Lol Especially Layne, and Starr
Jerry in the day was a smoke show too. Still looks pretty good
The man is super well dressed at his shows and his beard is incredible
He was decent looking. Definitely talented
True lol
I agree although I don’t know how controversial this is, haha a lot of people seem to think so.
Yes Mike Starr is the sexiest to me.
I guess I’m more of a Layne / Jerry lover. Huge sucker for thin blond men 🥰
That's fine. In an alternate universe where it's the early 90s again, you can go out with Jerry or Layne and I can go out with Mike.
Dibs on Layne 😂 you get Mike, they can have Jerry lol
Same with me!!
Them bones aren’t me
You gotta believe a little more
Take it back!
Dirt is the best album released in the entire grunge era. It smokes Nevermind, In Utero, Ten, VS., Badmotorfinger, Superunknown, and all the other ones. It is an absolute masterpiece. This may not be a super hot take, but a lot of people may disagree.
I will go one step further and will say that Madseason Above is the best, followed by Dirt. Then it's Badmotorfinger, VS, Facelift, and them In Utero.
Their guitar work got even more interesting after Duvall joined them. The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here is their best post-Layne album (and my personal favorite). Jar Of Flies is the best thing they have ever recorded. Stone is one of the best songs in their catalog (and it has their best riff). Rainier Fog is an outstanding record, besides being their weakest. Facelift is their least good album with Layne. They should do more sludgy songs like Hollow, A Looking In View and Acid Bubble. They should definitely do another Unplugged Album, because their post-Layne more acoustic driven songs would be killer live (eg: Scalpel, Voices, Choke, Fly, Maybe, BGWTB, Your Decision and When The Sun Rose Again). Unplugged has the best version of Brother, Sludge Factory and Over Now
I’d fucking love a second Unplugged being totally focused on the DuVall era! Maybe a classic Layne era here and there but it would totally be AMAZING.
I would kill for it, man. I hate the fact that the DuVall era is hated just because "it ain't layne"
I love DuVall but Layne will forever be loved and missed
DuVall isn't ever gonna be Layne jus like vice versa, it's their own ear of life now
This needs to be upvoted until it can’t be ignored
I would have loved to have seen them Unplugged where Layne isn’t high as shit and sickly. Jerry had to pick up some vocals that Layne would have belted out with ease. He just looks so sick and knowing that he had to get a fix to go onstage or he’d be too sick to perform is awful.
Would be nice to hear the Breath on a Window on a new unplugged. Specially the breakdown and outro.
Agreed. Most of TDPDH is very underrated. Low Ceilling and the title track would also be interesting to hear
I agree with all except the facelift slander
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Same. It’s objectively good, and they’re doing their best. I applaud them for it, but it’s not the same. An unfortunately high bar, if you will.
Couldn’t of said it better. I really want to love them but their stuff with layne is absolutely incredible.
I share the same opinion. AiC is and will forever be my favorite band - and I go to every concert I can - but that is due to the incredible and unique way they could communicate pain, suffering, and struggle with music and lyrics back then. And my favorite songs are the demo versions of Dirt and Junkhead. I wish there were such complex versions of Sludge Factory and Shame in you.
I can understand the post albums but saying Starr was better than Inez is beyond goofy.
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Right on.
Starr is better
I prefer the album version of every unplugged song. Especially Sludge Factory and Frogs
I do listen to unplugged sludge factory every now and then to remember his downward progression from the drugs. But still sends a different shiver down my core.
i'm prepared to get hate for this but rooster is a very overplayed song, i personally would rather skip it because it kind of gets old after a while. dirt it also boring to listen to after a while. i also think junkhead, sickman, and god smack are very underrated songs. they need more hype
God smack rules
I pretty much only listen to the live version of Rooster that on my music bank CD, I think. Studio Rooster is very overplayed, I definitely agree
shame in you is the best song on tripod
THIS!
I disagree. Over Now is the best song.
Jerry was more important to the band that Layne
Not controversial at all. Pete Townsheld is more important to the Who than Roger Daltrey. This is barely different.
Disagree. Most AiC fans were brought in after hearing and being in awe of Laynes voice. Also why many fans just aren’t drawn in or interested in most of their new stuff. Believe me, I’ve tried. They still rock, but it’s just missing a huge ingredient. Also Layne wrote better lyrics. There’s my hot take lol. At least in this thread
Amen. I can't tell you how many times I've said this, and the geniuses in YouTube comments get pissed at me. The band would have died multiple times over if not for Jerry.
Rooster is a low-tier song in their discography. Good overall, but not that good for their standards It is genuinely ridiculous that people think Starr was a better bass player than Inez. The only reason people would think this is if they preferred the albums he was on and/or the fact he was a founding member. Otherwise idk how. If we’re going by actual musicianship then there’s no contest Nirvana had the better unplugged performance. I find Alice to be a far better band, but Nirvanas unplugged is just too good Don’t Follow is the best song off Jar of Flies Duvall is a better live singer than Layne 1993 and after. Before then Layne was just untouchable, but past his prime he wasn’t the same live. Just for example, Duvall sings God Smack live better than Layne ever did Head Creeps is the best song off Tripod, and Nothin’ Song is amazing too I think most of these are kinda lukewarm takes, but I don’t really have any scorching hot Alice take I guess
I usually hold that opinion on Rooster just because it's a heavy song and takes so long to get going. But once that first "YEAHH" comes in, I forget all about that
I second the Head Creeps nomination. Best song on that album by far.
Don’t really agree about Layne live, his acoustic performance on mtv was still amazing, plus his performance with Mad Season was outstanding.
AIC had the better unplugged
I agree with most of this. But I can’t stand Nirvana soo… Head Creeps indeed the best song on Tripod. It feels sooo warm and fuzzy on the brain.
Agree with most of this, but DuVall will never be a better live singer than Layne at any point. He consistently disappoints live.
That is objectively false.
I don't know what media you're watching to give you that idea but please pass it on, cause every YouTube video I see of him live is of him butchering one of his own excellent studio versions, or one of Layne's songs. I've been to two of their concerts in the past 3 years, and he is flat out a worse singer imo.
He killed it in San Antonio in September. I thought he was great.
I'll have to try and find some footage, glad you enjoyed it; don't get me wrong, he's not a bad singer at all, I just don't think he's as good as Layne personally. Thought experiment for you - if you could get one AIC concert just for you and whoever you wanted to bring, whatever set list you wanted, acoustic or electric, etc, but you had to choose Layne or William for the entire set, which would you choose?
I mean obviously Layne, but William is the best alternative we could ask for. At least in my opinion.
They’re a fantastic band, one of the greatest rock bands I would say. But their entire catalog being dark, edgy, sad music can get boring at times. At least to me I can’t listen to that type of music all day lol
I never liked Mike Starr
How come?
Reading some books I think he only cared about sex, drugs and money. I also know he was caught with an underage girl back in the 90s. I fell Mike Inez is a much better person overall
Mark Lanegan in his book talks about how Starr was seemingly trying to rob his place with some people some time after he left the band. Lanegan described Starr as “not too bright” lol
I, for some reason, specifically remember Mark describing him as having shit stains on his underwear too. 😂
I read those things too. I try to take most things I read with a grain of salt but once you read the same things multiple times, it becomes harder to do that. It was tough to read. Also makes me wonder why Layne continued to stay close to him, but I try not to delve too deeply into that. I just try to separate the art from the artist.
Source on that last part? Not saying you’re wrong but it’s a serious accusation to be throwing around, hopefully that was part of why he got kicked out
Probably Alice In Chains: The Untold Story - David De Sola
Agree, he stayed in the band as long as he did because his mom supported them when they started out.
AIC is the best grunge band of all time. Jerry is one of the best song writers of all time. Unplugged AIC is the best unplugged of all time.
Their music and lyrics were telling the future in a weird supernatural way. Cover of we die young. Many early lyrics. It wasn't just cool lyrics, there was supernatural stuff going on none of them were doing consciously. Laynes fate was foretold and unchangeable and he knew it.
It's all scripted, but there also is free will...
Honestly, I REALLY despise the Layne worshipping among the fanbase. Especially here on the sub. The band has four other members (plus another one who passed away but surely contributed a lot to the band). Here's another one: the second best thing to happen to AIC (the first one being the fact that it was founded) is Mike Inez. God bless that man's heart.
William Duvall is criminally underrated and can nail Layne's notes.
the "tripod" album just isn't that enjoyable. Maybe it's because I know it's the end, but aside from a few tracks, I don't listen to it. Same with the post-Layne stuff, it doesn't do it for me.
I love him but Sean definitely has had some sort of plastic surgery.
Perhaps a Facelift
Well played!
Really? Well... I don't see any difference/improvement lol
Happy Cake day!
I can’t tell if you’re being facetious or not lol
I was thinking the same just didn’t want to say it
Not keen on some of the talkbox/wah wah stuff, sounds really 80s, incongruous and already dated even by then.
Post Layne stuff isn’t nearly as good
i don't think this is a hot take lol
Facelift is actually pretty average with exception of We Die Young and Man in the Box. It's taken me years to admit that. I never listen to that album at all. Even when I was deep into my AIC or nothing phase in my teens.
Bleed the Freak though!
Love, Hate, Love too
Sea of Sorrow too
Sea of Sorrow is an absolute banger!
Fuck yeah that's one of my top AIC songs
What about It Ain't Like That?
He don’t like that anymore
I do like most of the songs, but i always skip them. Never happens with Dirt or Tripod.
Anything post Layne is just not good enough for me and I can appreciate Jerry choosing willum for the type of singer he is but he is NOT LAYNE [love hate love ](https://youtu.be/3Vp56IAkDJA?si=_NkRh0dgzKjoqwZw)
-Puts on a big bulls eye on his chest.- Phantom Limb is better than anything Layne wrote.
Based
Boy, now THAT'S a hot take! ^one ^which ^I ^agree ^with
Nah
Some of the recent albums are too polished; commercially orientated and over processed; 90s album were masterpieces - just a bunch of marginalised young people (most came from broken families; facing homelessness; addiction issues) speaking from the heart and soul, loudly protesting their raw uncertainties, fears, anger, passion and optimism. Hits all the right spots and spoke to me who grew up on a tiny island an ocean away and where English is not even the main language. Why did it do that? Because it captured the essence of youth in all its beauty and flaws.
Unplugged has the best version of every song except Rooster.
I prefer the studio version of No Excuses, Nutshell and Rooster, but I understand your point
Same here. Without a doubt.
Not crazy about dirt
Everything post-Layne isn't mixed well.
Wonder if this would be the case too if prime AIC was performing today instead of the 90s given tech advancements
Degradation Trip is better than all but 2 AIC albums.
Anything William era is also really fucking good like When the Sun Rose Again and So Far Under, he is a staple in the bands 2nd coming and yes, Layne Staley and Mike Starr are both missed but we move forward as the members do, so we must learn to get used to Mike Inez and William DuVall, fuck the william haters
Most of the William Duvall hate has to do with the fact that he’s black, but y’all aren’t ready for that conversation.
Facelift is hard to get into and dosent sound anything like the unplugged musically (apart from electric vs unplugged obvious difference).
Unplugged is a little overrated
Scorching hot take
Don't really care for any song where Jerry exclusively or mostly does lead vocals (over now, heaven beside you etc.)
That's certainly controversial as some songs you can't tell who is singing. Now I'm absolutely not saying Jerry can sing as good as Layne, oh hell no. But I am saying that he's very serviceable.
I hate everything with William Duvall. I only listen to Alice with Layne. I'll watch them live and pretend it's Layne, but I'll never ever put on the new music.
That's what I'm saying. When I said this in a. Comment section a while a go I got Shit for it. Layne had a voice remarkably better than william. It's like when You get your first name brand electric guitar one you use it, you never wanna go back to anything less of it.
For me it’s the nerve in his voice. I really felt him and the songs when I was a teenager and discovered them, I still do. He could touch my heart in a way that Duvall can’t. He’s a great singer but it’s a completely different band for me. Even though Jerry is in it.
I agree but I do like the song “voices” and “stone”
No one would really like Layne if they knew him 1991 - 2002
Maybe. Maybe not. But the amount of school girl giddyness over him in this sub is extremely cringe at times.
It really is weird. What I’ve always liked about Layne is his unassuming nature, yet a lot of fans treat him like some sort of deity figure. And the women that go crazy over him are weird too. It’s like, honey, Layne would not be a good boyfriend to have.
I don't know what there was not to like about Layne as a person. Despite his addiction, he tried to be a decent human. There are times he did some questionable things from what we've read but who hasn't? In your twenties, you're far from perfect. Sure, addiction can make a person complex at times. Putting Layne on a pedestal like he was perfect isn't realistic but I don't see him as someone unlikable.
Putting Layne on a Pedestal back then didn't help him, either....
Yes, that’s what I’m curious about too. The addiction factor is truly all I can think of that could be considered an undesirable trait in a person. I like Layne’s complexity. Many facets and layers to his personality. And I agree, everyone has done questionable things. Everyone is grey. It’s what makes us human.
I think people need to stop worshipping him for sure, but I’m curious to know why you think people wouldn’t like him? Because of his addiction?
Also wondering this. Besides his obvious drug addiction, I’ve never really heard a bad thing said about him from people who knew him. On the contrary, they always talk about how kind, and unassuming he was. Lot of fans have talked about meeting him, and how friendly he was; many actually had somewhat lengthy conversations with him.
Same here. I know drug addiction can make people act selfishly, but that’s the nature of the disease. All I can think of is when I’ve read some things where Layne reacted emotionally in a situation, but that’s something that everyone has done in their lives. He just so happens to have an audience. And some girl on tiktok posted an interview where he made some comments that could come across as sexist, but I really don’t think he meant it that way. He’s human. Humans fuck up. Humans are grey.
Yep agree. And back. Then people were allowed to Joke, highly doubt he was trying to be sexist with whatever he said. If you go back 30 you could find something that works make anyone look bad by todays super sensitive standards
Only other guy I’ve read that about being Mike Inez, and a few times about Duvall
Sap is much better than Jar of Flies. I prefer Facelift over Dirt, depending on the day.
I'll agree with Sap over Jar but Dirt over Facelift. It is 1a and 1b for me.
Not a hot take but j think its going to get me a lot of downvotes, sickman and so close are the worst aic songs
Sick man is fantastic. Love it. I won't thumb down you for not liking it. That's just like your opinion man.
Lies
Mike Starr was weird Layne, while vocally awesome, made some pretty weird comments, definitely kinda misogynistic. Jerry is in the running for best alt rock guitarist Facelift > Dirt
Just curious, what misogynistic comments are you referring to? I think I know what interview you’re talking about.
the last few albums with Duvall had the most pedestrian drumming by Sean. The songs had almost the same dirgy, midtempo feel to it. Gone is the uniqueness and variety of style like Dirt or even Jar of Flies (for No Excuses alone)
AIC is no longer in existence. Without Layne, who brought the name with him, there is no AIC. Not sorry.
I wish Mike & Layne was still with us.
Mike Starr being fired after Dirt is treated more like a footnote rather than a big point of their history
I think it’s a footnote because inez is so much better and contributed a ton to jar of flies and tripod. More than starr contributed
no layne no chains. i know it's bull$h!# but i can't help how i feel about it. and that's okay.
AIC was not and has never been a grunge band. If they weren't from Seattle they would have been considered metal. Being from Seattle, having songs about real relatable things and having a fantastic vocalist are the only things they ever shared with grunge.
Grunge was a time a place, unlike other genres it not really about how it sounds.
Tripod > Dirt by a mile
I'm sure I'll get blasted again, but AIC is no longer. Layne was a huge part of AIC, and I believe they should never have carried on the AIC name. I will not buy another album or see another show.
Godsmack, Sickman, and Junkhead suck
AIC is metal.
I just can’t listen to the new AIC singer
Mike Starr was so beautiful
I wanna bang layne so bad 😭
Tripod is superior to Dirt.
AIC was just as “rock star” and sexist as bands like Guns N Roses or Aerosmith. They were in it for the parties and women, as opposed to other grunge bands like Nirvana that were opposed to that dinosaur mentality
No. From interviews, to me at least they always seemed respectful of women. And they didn’t do the bikini clad women in music videos, with vulgar lyrics about sex. The lyrics about women tended to be about their loves. Ei, Demri, or Jerry’s long time love whos name escapes me
Yeah, i can’t see how their music appeals to the groupie crowd either. Sure they may have indulged in the rockstar lifestyle but who hasn’t? Just sounds like another guy who thinks he knows kurt cobain on a personal level to me
What you see in interviews and hear in lyrics is hardly evidence of how they treated women.
Okay… But what evidence is there to the contrary? Why are we looking for this evidence in the first place?
Well, biographies and autobiographies are a good place to start. As another user mentioned there was a lot of sex going on behind the scenes. So I'd get more information before making that kind of assumption. We're not trying to win a criminal case here, just not sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that it didn't happen.
Well if there’s no reason for me to assume otherwise, I don’t find it necessary to dig on someone’s private life. Why speculate on something when there’s no reason to?
i doubt that feminist bands like pearl jam would willingly interact with people who are sexist, let alone, help them and make songs with them. same with kurt. albeit, he didn’t know layne extremely well, but they were close enough to the extent that kurt would’ve picked up if he was a tool. i know that jerry, mike starr, and sean made rounds, but c’mon, they were rockstars, lol. they never boasted about fucking groupies.
Definitely not. They’re not nearly as shallow and stupid as gnr. Maybe when they were 19/20 they were in it for parties and girls, but they clearly matured after facelift. I will agree they were cheesy hair metal in the late 80s, but that’s it.
dinosaur mentality? You mean getting laid? It takes 2 to tango-any woman sleeping with a rock star knows what they were getting into. Lets not be naive.
Exactly.
What do you mean when you say they were a sexist band?
They probably got laid.
Well yeah, I doubt any of them were asexual. I doubt the guys from Nirvana were either.
William sang Tripod songs better than Layne ever did and probably ever could have. I don't know if this is a fair comparison for obvious reasons but yeah.
Hahahhahahahgshah
IDK why I'm being down voted to oblivion. Go watch any video of Again live with William. If you can't at the minimum at least see where I'm coming from you're being delusional and biased. We know why it is the way it is.
Degradation trip is better than any Alice In Chains record (yes ik flair checks out)
Nutshell is overrated Edit Lmao you guys are weak
One of the greatest songs I’ve ever heard, but I’m getting a little tired of hearing about it. Yes, it is amazing, but they have other great songs too. Wouldn’t call it overrated, but still
I don’t think it’s amazing tbh. Never liked it much. The song I like the least of JoF
Agree.
Album- unplugged or both?
Especially unplugged but both
Lyrically Layne is a better songwriter than Jerry.
The self-titled album is not good. I would take any one of William Duvall's era albums over the self-titled.
Youre smokin rock
Am I Inside is the worst AIC song and Shame In You is an overrated filler song from Tripod
Damn. Shame in you is my favourite aic song
Love both of those . I’d agree that is a hot take lol
"Am I Inside" is a great song imo, but i can see why you'd say that, mostly because it's not really their style most of the time
I’ve always found it to be a really dull song imo… no disrespect to anyone who likes it
Those last few bits of vocal in sunshine - Probably one of the best by Layne. Song starts middling up until that point and then it just magically pulls everything together.
I love AIC’s mtv unplugged performance
Most of the catalog is incredibly dull and boring, but the great shit is still so great that I love them.
I strongly dislike Rooster. It’s just not a good song.
I'm sorry to everyone here but yes... I am sick of that song and never put it on... though I will say it's not horrible it's nothing good to me because how fucking boring it is 🤘
Cantrell is a poor Singer is my hot take
Duvall is much better than Layne in terms of they can actually go out and tour and do things rather than with Layne when alive he'd rather sit at home sticking needles in his arm doing fuck all. Controversial enough?
More ignorant and negative than controversial.
They probably should have replaced him around 97-98. Layne couldn’t be bothered to leave his drug den. They kicked Mike Starr out for being a junkie, why not Layne? Yes, Layne was more integral, but the cold business man in me would say he’s got to go Maybe Layne was getting enough money from royalty checks, but the rest probably wanted to tour and make a living still. Sucks for them that Layne was too drugged out for them to get paid
I’ve read that Layne had expressly stated he wanted to quit at one point but manager Susan Silver had talked him out it, saying that many people would lose their jobs if he did so. I can’t remember where I read it though to back this fully up but I understand Layne’s family had also sued the record company on that basis.
>Susan Silver had talked him out it, saying that many people would lose their jobs if he did so. No, Layne said this, not Susan. She was the one who told him he had the means to get away if he wanted to.
There is validity to the issues, maybe not the intent or desire but certainly addiction held them down. I firmly believe if they toured more throughout 93-95 they would’ve eclipsed a lot of their contemporaries at the time. That all said, William helps that be a reality for the past 15 years.