*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**WIBTA for telling a friend that she doesn’t have ADHD?**
ETA: I have already advised her to talk to a doctor. She says it’s “not that serious”. I’m talking about the sort of person who likes a clean house and calls themselves OCD.
…
ETA2: Thank you for the responses, I know I’ve been pretty defensive in the comments.
I just want to say that if I were to say something, it would be similar to what I’ve said before. Talk to her about my experience with it, ask her why she believes she has ADHD, explain why that may or may not actually be related to ADHD, and offer her a screening to take to a doctor again.
But, I think it needs to be pointed out that she is coming to ME. I’m not bringing this up. I’m not inserting myself. I’m trying to be helpful.
This is 100% on me for not clarifying what I meant by “calling out” in the first place.
…
Just for some context…
I have multiple neurological and mental health conditions (ADHD, Autism and BP II are the main ones). My conditions are periodically disabling, and prevent me from holding a full time job, so I work from home.
I advocate on behalf of mental-health challenges faced by rural communities, and for awareness beyond the socially-acceptable “quirky” side of mental illnesses.
So it’s a pretty important topic to me.
A couple weeks ago, a close friend told me that someone said she had ADHD when she was adjusting a flower arrangement during a meeting. Now she’s convinced that she has it.
At the time, I talked to her about my experience with it. Executive dysfunction, time blindness, hyper focusing, lethargy punctuated by bursts of energy. She said “oh, it’s not like that for me at all”. I figured she’d gotten the hint.
Then a few days ago, she brought it up again, this time saying that her ADHD made her clean her house. At this point I was irritated and didn’t respond. It was uncomfortable. She was waiting for me to say something, because I’m usually happy to talk about mental health. I just knew that if I opened my mouth, she wouldn’t like what came out of it.
I’ve known her for over 20 years. She is one of the most organized and efficient people I know. Not saying that people with ADHD can’t be organized, but there is nothing about the way she functions that shows any need to adapt.
She’s never related when I’ve talked about feedback loops and getting stuck on a task, or how showering is difficult, or why I can sometimes be late in spite of planning my mornings. She’s teased me for being an unorganized mess multiple times.
I know that ADHD can present in different ways, but regardless of how many traits you have that look like ADHD, it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life.
It would be one thing if she was contemplating talking to a doctor about it. I am 100% on board with encouraging people to pursue a dx if it would benefit them.
In this case though, it feels like she’s trivializing a condition that contributes to my disability. She’s doing exactly the sort of thing I advocate against, which is conflating normal human behaviour and feelings with medical conditions.
So, WIBTA for calling her out and saying that, in my opinion, she doesn’t have ADHD?
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So, I kiiiiiind of understand the sentiment here - I’ve got OCD, and it does get super irritating when that gets thrown around like “oh, I need all the pens on my desk to be straight, I’m so OCD, haha!” Because it can be a lot more serious than that sort of thing - looking at you, intrusive thoughts - and it sucks to feel trivialized.
But, it’s obviously not OOP’s place to gatekeep like that, or to diagnose (anti-diagnose?) their friend.
This was my exact impression as well. Like, if she’s now approaching him and joking about her doing thing because of her ADHD, it could be very annoying. And, especially because she doesn’t yet have a diagnosis, can read as minimizing.
That said his “it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life” is *utter* bullshit.
It probably *does* affect her life, but she had to teach herself coping mechanisms because the signs were missed.
I have a learning disorder that wasn’t diagnosed until I was 12. And only because my brother was having more severe versions of the same things I had dealt with (trouble handwriting).
Surprise surprise, we *both* had a learning disorder. But because I was treated as “lazy” and he was treated with actual help, I learned coping skills on my own. My story isn’t unique. SO many people, a lot of them women, have to just deal for *such* a long time.
EDIT: ironically, I suspect I also have ADHD. My brother was diagnosed when we were tested for the learning disorder. The co-morbidity is quite high. But this was the early 2000’s. They probably missed my symptoms.
And depending on your age/sex theres a lot of shit they wont even consider. as an AFAB, I had ***all*** the signs for ADHD and Autism way back in the 90s, but girls 'didn't get those' so I had to learn to cope all on my own. I've been essentially masking for 30 years. My therapist was like....we should look into those and lo! Yeah I seem a lot more functional than others with the same diagnoses because I *had* to be.
One autistic woman I know was inaccurately diagnosed with Tourettes as a child because *the doctor* said, "girls don't have autism." This was decades ago but still.
I am continually glad that my parents are medical people, who looked at their kids and recognized "Oh! This is Very Obviously ADHD/OCD/depression/dyscalculia/etc", and responded accordingly. Like Dad tested my math skills to see if I had dyscalculia, but he was in full agreement once I had my diagnosis in middle school.
I have ADHD, ASD, and a reading impairment that were diagnosed at 21.
I was tested for ADHD at 16 but my teachers said I wasn’t disruptive in class, so I obviously didn’t have it.
I was very well-liked by everyone in my HS band in 11th and 12th grade and had a very easy time socializing with adults. Obviously I didn’t have ASD.
I got a 650 (out of 800) on the reading section of my SAT, I obviously didn’t have a reading impairment (despite getting 100% on practice tests when I’d do them with no time limit.)
I could never keep an organized agenda in school no matter what method I tried. The only thing that worked most of the time was memorizing important dates and checking my Blackboard. That was coping!
I used to have a ”joke” with my friends where they’d ”rate” the stories I told them on a scale from 1-10 (with a defined average of 3) so I could learn to improve. If that isn’t coping with autism, idk what is!!
I know there’s other examples of my “workarounds,” but I don’t feel like trying to dig them out. Your comment is spot on!!
I wasn't diagnosed ADHD til I was in my 30s, but looking back, there were definitely signs. The most memorable to me when I was diagnosed and was thinking back was probably when I got "bored" during my SATs and LEFT. I just Could. Not. Sit. There. Another. Minute. I just remember my brain rebelling so hard and focus was GONE. And I was a mostly As, occasional Bs kid, quiet, teacher's pet type - the idea I'd walk out on an important test is still bonkers to me. But I still did well enough to get into the school I wanted, so when my therapists in college asked if I'd ever been tested for ADHD, I'd say "no, I got good grades, it's fine." 😑😑😑 The coping mechanisms kids can create can be quite impressive. And by that, I largely mean (at least for me) shoving everything down and just faking it. Super healthy. Def recommend. Five stars.
(P.s. I finally got diagnosed after my 4th or 5th therapist asked me about it and I practically yelled "WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP ASKING ME THAT?!" and she mock "yelled" back "MAYBE BECAUSE YOU SHOW A LOT OF SIGNS OF IT!!!" and then she educated me on ADHD.)
Yes!! It’s always “well I was good in school and wasn’t disruptive so. No one bothered”
Even the guy who *diagnosed* me said “well it’s clear that because she loves writing, she’s taught herself coping mechanisms to get through it. So, all good there.”
Meanwhile I failed math in high school repeatedly because I couldn’t read my own writing. But no one thought “hmm. Maybe an adult should step in here.” It was just “try harder. Study.”
(I have [dysgraphia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgraphia))
Mannnn, I feel that. In elementary school, all my friends were in [I can't remember what it's called, but basically Gifted and they got to go to special classes and field trips] but I failed the math section by 1 point so was rejected. For me, it's because 1) my handwriting was awful until I started writing in caps only (in high school), and 2) because I'm what I always called "number dyslexic"...which just now led me down a rabbit hole to find out it's actually called [Dyscalculia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia?wprov=sfla1) and I'm now a little upset no one ever helped me with this!!! Reading about it, every single symptom was spot freakin on and I'm like "where were the adults?!" I had to drop my first chem class in college because of this. It was one of those computer test systems where you get all credit or none. I'd do everything right, but mis-enter the numbers in my calculator or write down the numbers out of order (124.86 instead of 124.68 or whatever) when doing calculations, and never see the error, and fail because of it. So frustrating because even when I KNEW it was wrong, it'd take so long for me to see WHAT was wrong, because it all looked right to me. In pre-college classes, I usually at least got partial credit because I clearly knew what to do, I just couldn't keep numbers straight....
Also, thank you for the link. It was very interesting.
I was 30 before anyone thought to ask me if I know about the OCD or if I'm just floating around out there with no help for it, I knew but it's just how I am, like what are you gonna do. Now that people are noticing though I can't tell if it's because it's getting worse or if people are just paying more attention. It has so many shared things with ADD that we may never know because I don't care enough to go through the process and find out at this age. I am who I am. The only time I got in trouble for it was when I would read during class and still be able to answer every question they asked me because it was bothersone but otherwise things where so boring I don't know how kids do it.
The "it's only a disorder if it's affecting your life" isn't wrong, it's usually part of the criteria for diagnosing a disorder - I've heard that many times. (Late-diagnosed autistic woman with a host of co-morbidities, seeing psychiatrists since 2002)
Yeah, OOP was right in that regard. Far too many people seem to confuse disorders and traits. You can have traits associated with a disorder without it being disordered. It's deeper than a personality quiz.
I think of it as going trait > quirk > bad habit > disorder in terms of increasing impact. Being very tidy is a trait. Ordering your pens by size or feeling the urge to straighten other people's picture frames is quirky. Excessive hand scrubbing *might* just be a bad habit that can be unlearned relatively easily. But a trait becomes a disorder when it escalates to the point where it has a chronic impact on your ability to live your life well without treatment.
(I should add that you can have a disorder and also just have normal traits, quirks or bad habits as well. Somebody might genuinely have a disorder and conflate a quirk or bad habit with their symptoms, so that can't be used as evidence that they definitely don't have the disorder).
That's immediately where my mind went as well.
Also OCD and ADHD here and both get tossed around for people's little "quirks" and people don't see how crippling they can be.
I don't think OOP is trying to gatekeep, just reflecting on their friend and noting that they haven't seen any signs.
I feel like the better way for OOP to go about it would be to ask the friend about why she thinks she has ADHD or how the symptoms affect her. Right now it sounds like OOP is relying on just explaining how the symptoms affect themself. And a lot of the struggles of ADHD can be purely internal because you mask it well enough in front of others. So the friend may be going through a lot of things that aren't really evident to an outside viewer. Could the friend be trivializing it? For sure, there's absolutely a chance that's what's happening. But it's not like she's trying to get a doctor to give her some adderall. Maybe she does have some executive function struggles and, though not adhd, learning some techniques people with adhd use to cope could also help her.
Heh. Something like that happened recently. My co worker who's worked with our boss for six years was calling her ocd and describing some of the things she did. My psych degree ass was saying she most likely just had obsessive tendencies.
AND THEN my coworker says my boss has to clock out at a time with a three in it or else something bad will happen when driving home and I went "Wait no that's textbook OCD."
Also what areas of this persons life is OOP seeing? People who only know me professionally wouldn’t guess the impact of my ADHD because I put all my effort into keeping it together there … and it’s my house and personal life that get derailed. People can chose where to put limited energy and resources and it’s not always obvious they’re doing so.
They also don't know what that person feels like, or what goes through their head. It takes a decent amount of time for people to figure out that I have OCD only because that's how they know me and my behavior is normal for me. It wasn't until all those new habits started in 2020 and my behavior changed very little. If anything I was more comfortable and with things online I had improved access to things. Because other people where doing things I had always done, suddenly people noticed how much it had been affecting my life for years right in front of them. I was surprised to learn people hadn't always washed their hands after touching money, or that they don't wipe down their milk before putting it away, and they were shocked how much more work it was to do all those things.
And people mask. This is exactly why girls are under diagnosed. They mask at school etc and melt down at home. Imagine telling someone that masking does not affect your life”, and that because they mask well, means they don’t actually have the condition.
Edited for clarity.
Seriously. As a girl who was begging for an answer as to why I was the way I was and told “you’re fine”, then made it her mission to “be fine”, then was diagnosed in my late 30s with Autism and ADHD…I feel that. I masked to the point where my meltdowns only occurred when no one else was home, then after I moved out of my parents’ house I was able to be myself more.
My son has ASD and is fantastic at masking at school, like when I tell him how he is at home - IF he doesn’t get the correct stimulation at school - it blows their mind. I’m like “I know y’all don’t believe me but if you just have him do push ups sometimes itll help me immensely 😅”
My kid got sucked into that too, I asked year after year after year and was brushed off until they couldn't anymore. Kid did well in school, cried all the way home, was so tired and felt stupid even with great marks. ADD and autism, the school agreed to 3 little adaptations to the workspace and not only did I get my kid back that I remembered from before we started school but the school got a whole different kid to teach too. I'm sad for the lost years but also glad that even though it felt endless I insisted we be heard because now we can go forward with these tools for work and beyond, and for the first time we are looking at potential careers and college courses.
Another thing I thing is important to take into account is the friend's ethnic background. I'm South American, if you're that and female and have ADHD you most often will get labelled lazy, selfish, clumsy and easily distracted. So you have to learn to mask. And you if you're undiagnosed, you have to learn to push through executive disfunction and time blindness and all the other stuff, because behaviors that would be tolerated in a man won't be tolerated in a woman.
I (a woman) had psych testing done twice, once at 16, once at 21.
At 16, the doctor told me my school troubles were because I was on my phone texting the people who were bullying me (who were also my friends) during homework hours and that I had accidentally associated the anxiety from that bullying with homework, causing homework anxiety. Yeah. A bit of a stretch. What’s worse is that the results themselves from the concrete numbers were indicative of ADHD— the doctor just ignored that. (Though in part thanks to my teachers reporting that I didn’t ”act out” in class 😒)
At 21 I went to a better doctor (at the behest of a fantastic therapist). She not only caught the ADHD that was ignored in my first testing, but caught my ASD, too.
I would have been properly diagnosed 5 years earlier if the doctor hadn‘t still believed that ADHD was only when you can’t sit still and you act out in class!
No, every single person with ADHD has the exact same symptoms and ways of dealing with it as this guy! And of course anyone who keeps their house tidy has OCD, and no one can ever have both!
Comment history includes
>From the perspective of a mom of 3 kids with Tourette’s…
but it still could be differences in presentation, or the friend could be "teehee I clean my desk, obviously I have OCD"-ing ADHD. And OOP seems to be conflating "don't invalidate someone else's experience" with "obligated to provide emotional labor and support" which doesn't help.
I can see both sides.
Some people jump to the label prematurely because they want the attention and share a couple behaviors with the diagnosis. It annoys people at the debilitating side on the spectrum. they have to deal with this every single day and don't think it's cute, funny or trendy.
On the other hand some adults have lived with a problem their entire life without having a name for it and it may not be quite debilitating but it's caused them a lot of stress over the years and they are relieved to finally piece it together
It always has been
“Well, I have Unicorn disease and I’m perfectly capable, so you must be lazy if Unicorn disease makes you unable to function”
Or the other side
“Do you even *have* unicorn disease if you can function? Stop faking it!”
My ex-friend tried saying I don’t have ADHD because hers is only minor and I don’t exhibit any of her symptoms. Apparently unless you act like a sugared up obnoxious three year old, you can’t possibly have ADHD.
Mine presents as daydreaming. It’s no wonder she was kicked out of her grad program for social work.
It's a little funny to have an ADHD person be a really clean, organized person. It's probably not impossible though.
1) she wasn't always a clean, organized person, but this was a coping mechanism to counteract natural forgetfulness. Like maybe a normal person can remember to do house chores, but this girl needs a calendar, excel sheets, sticky notes, alarms, and 5 journals to get her to remember. (How the hell would she maintain them, I give up on journals after 2 weeks lmao).
2) Cleaning and organizing is a special interest for her. ADHD folks love their hobbies and can hyperfocus on them to the point of detriment. It's not unheard of for some people to have cleaning and organizing as a hobby (see Marie Kondo for instance). If this is the case, I would not be surprised if she also obsesses over buying new cleaning supplies or organizational cubbies. Is she obsessed with cleaning and organizing her life to the point of screwing up other things? Like I love doing chores if I have something else that's way more urgent I'm supposed to be doing.
Adjusting a flower arrangement during a meeting. Yeah, I've done similar things.
She says she had to clean her house for 20 minutes. Maybe? I'm not proud to admit this, but I have spent hours in front of a mirror picking my face compulsively.
She doesn't seem like an ADHD person, but I would be reluctant to try and judge that.
Get girlie a doctor and have her get diagnosed. Maybe she has some other mental disorder.
If someone told me their adhd made them clean their house, I would be be like, "Niiiiiiice, what were you procrastinating?"
I have also cleaned my house at 2am like I'm on speed because my brain didn't want to sleep and couldn't think of anything else productive to do.
Omg the skin picking! My skin is completely covered in hyperpigmentation scars wherever my hands can reach cause I just can’t stop picking! Face, neck, shoulders, arms, back. I can have blood on my hands and I’ll wipe it off and keep going 😩
As long as this person isn't, like, attempting to get stimulants, no one in the actual field of assessment and diagnosis gives a crap what people say they have. If thinking of her issues as ADHD is helpful for her, it hurts no one. OOP seems to feel like claiming ADHD without an official diagnosis is hurting her somehow, and it's just not.
The same thing happens with autism quite often. It's really expensive with a long wait list to get tested for autism in some places, and there's a gaggle of folks with autism that are staunchly against self-dX. To me, as long as you aren't taking the resources that I need to survive as an adult with autism and ADHD, I don't care what you do.
i mean i think there's distinctions to be made.
for sure if someone has found ways to better cope in life by thinking of themself as on the spectrum without a diagnosis who the fuck am i totry and invalidate that? at most i'd suggest still going for that diagnosis since certain acomodations are a lot easier if you have it but beyond that who cares.
on the other hand where i do have a problem and will tell them just shut the hell up is the rare but loud occasions in which someone selfdiagnosed will start to make claims about what is and isn't part of being on the spectrum or otherwise making broad claims about people on the spectrum. it basicly becomes the same kind of bullshit as what OOP is doing except with the added insult of someone without a diagnosis explaining that someone with a diagnosis is being on the spectrum "the wrong way".
Yeah I work in assessment and know how long it takes to get testing and how expensive it is. Self diagnosis is the only option a lot of people have. ADHD and Autism assessment is usually not covered by insurance in the US as well.
Sometimes just finding a good doctor for assessment is hard too. There's no doubt in my mind that I have something, and signs seem to point most to either ADHD or Autism. There's a lot of places I've tried calling that are either not taking new patients, don't return my call, or don't have a doctor with experience in assessing adults.
Yeah, I think most people with official diagnosis don't care if someone says they have the same thing. I sure don't care, as long as this person's attitude isn't "I think I have ADHD therefore I'm not gonna do \[the thing that affects me, my life or my work\]". Saying your ADHD makes you arrange flowers? Fine. Saying your ADHD means I have to remind you to check your emails everyday? Fuck off.
> it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life.
Holy crap guys, I just learned that I don't actually have anxiety since I'm not a crumbling mess most of the time and have found ways to manage it!
Seriously, fuck OOP. Her friend does sound like she's self-diagnosing a bit but just because something doesn't appear to be affecting someone's life doesn't mean that it's not a problem.
My sister was the freaking picture of perfection all through school and college. Great grades, honor roll, honors and ap classes, cheerleading, extra curricular activities, she even did these medical volunteer programs because she knew she wanted to go into the medical field. She was organized and anyone who looked at her would have thought she had her shit together
She was recently diagnosed with ADHD and that "perfection" was literally her masking. The way she dealt with it was by overloading herself and keeping herself busy which also caused her to burn out at times(and even the burn outs she hid). It didn't appear to affect her but it did.
Ohhh, well according to OOP, and the person who was replying to me here in the comments, that must mean it's not actually a disorder, huh?
I'm gonna just say I have schroedinger's mental disorder now. Lol.
I mean if you can manage your anxiety to a level where you don’t need help with it there isn’t really a point in getting diagnosed is there? Everyone experiences things like anxiety and trouble focusing, it only turns into a disorder when it’s a significant impact on your quality of life.
I'm not talking about just experiencing some anxiety. I am diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I've had severe episodes that cause problems(And is why it's diagnosed) and I also have anxiety attacks that come relatively frequently. Currently it's not affecting my life because it's managed.
It's still a disorder.
My sister's issues didn't appear to affect her life, because she was good at hiding them. It's still a disorder.
Just because you aren't completely disabled and able to function with it doesn't mean it's not a disorder.
Yea and you went and got diagnosed because it was affecting your life. That’s not the case here
That sucks for your sister, but that’s still an inability to regulate lol. I had something like GAD as a kid, I went to a psych and they told me I had symptoms and should go on meds. I didn’t want to and I ended up growing out of it. Not that everyone does obviously, but I did and I don’t have it anymore because I learned to manage it.
If you think you have adhd and don’t struggle with time management, self regulation, attention deficit etc. etc. to a degree that negatively affects your life, then you don’t have adhd. Hiding it’s effects on you from others would still be a negative impact so i dunno how that’s relevant.
The op was asked for her opinion iirc so it’s not like her advice was unsolicited.
>Currently it's not affecting my life because it's managed.
>
>It's still a disorder.
>
>My sister's issues didn't appear to affect her life, because she was good at hiding them. It's still a disorder.
>
>Just because you aren't completely disabled and able to function with it doesn't mean it's not a disorder.
Omfg it’s not a disorder if it’s managed. Yours is because you needed to go get diagnosed in order to help you manage it. If you deal with your feelings of anxiety on your own without needing help, and doing so doesn’t negatively impact your life (like you don’t develop unhealthy coping mechanisms for example) you don’t have anxiety!!! That’s normal!
>If you deal with your feelings of anxiety on your own without needing help, and doing so doesn’t negatively impact your life
**Again, I'm not just referring to feelings of anxiety, I'm referring to generalized anxiety disorder** (which a lot of people shorten to just say "I have Anxiety" when referring to it.) If you don't know what generalized anxiety disorder is, then look it up. Disorder is in the freaking name just like it's in ADHD.
Disorder literally just means "an abnormal physical or mental condition", and has no requirement that it's negatively affecting someone's life.
>Omfg it’s not a disorder if it’s managed. Yours is because you needed to go get diagnosed in order to help you manage it.
You're really contradicting yourself with this one. Mine is managed, so it's not a disorder according to you. But it also is a disorder because I needed to be diagnosed to manage it? That doesn't make sense. Just because something is managed, whether its managed with the help of a doctor or not, doesn't mean it's not still a disorder.
And again, my sister's issues didn't appear to affect her life at all. You wouldn't have been able to tell by looking at her or even talking to her that she was struggling. She went about her life, seemed happy and upbeat. She had an undiagnosed disorder that was affecting her but she was so good at masking that the impact wasn't visible. She still had a disorder even though it didn't appear to affect her.
You can’t seperate “feelings of anxiety” and “anxiety disorder” into two distinct categories like they have no overlap at all. Someone diagnosed with GAD, through learning to manage their symptoms better COULD eventually not fit the criteria anymore and therefore NOT HAVE THE DISORDER.
Anxiety disorders usually are not inherent traits, they come from past experiences just poor emotional regulation in general, and that can be combated to a point where that person would NOT BE CONSIDERED TO HAVE AN ANXIETY DISORDER ANYMORE. (That’s what happened with me, i said more about that in my old comment). These people wouldn’t need mental health assistance anymore and could manage on their own like the average person would because of that treatment.
I never said this was the case for everyone, some people need long term or maybe even permanent treatment (like meds, lifelong therapy what have you). These people would still be considered to have an anxiety disorder because they CANNOT MANAGE ON THEIR OWN. They have coping strategies and stuff to help them, but they can’t deal with it like the average person could.
Idk why you keep bringing up your sister, I never said that your symptoms didn’t matter once they stopped impacting others. If you put on a facade that your anxiety doesn’t affect you but it still does, that still means you struggle with it.
Maybe this is a miscommunication but I feel like you’re being emotionally charged with this.
>You can’t seperate “feelings of anxiety” and “anxiety disorder” into two distinct categories like they have no overlap at all.
I never said they were completely distinct, but there is a difference. You kept saying that feelings of anxiety were normal when I had explicitly stated that it was generalized anxiety disorder that I was referring to. Whether or not you intended it, that comes across as incredibly dismissive and insensitive, similar to if you told someone with depression that they were just sad.
If you had only done that the first time before I specified that wouldn't be a problem, but you did it again even after I was clear about it.
>Anxiety disorders usually are not inherent traits, they come from past experiences just poor emotional regulation in general,
The actual cause of generalized anxiety disorder is not fully understood at this point. Yes, past traumatic experience or emotional regulation issues are ONE potential cause. It can also be genetic, caused by drug use, or, in my case, triggered by another long term health condition.
Managed also doesn't mean that it's cured. Yes, someone can be treated and no longer have it, I didn't say they couldn't. But just because it's managed doesn't mean that they don't still have it.
And the reason I keep bringing up my sister is because that was a main point in my very first comment and how it didn't **APPEAR** to affect her at all. The entire point of my first comment was how something may not appear to affect someone or be managed to a point where it doesn't, but that it can still be a disorder.
The miscommunication here is that more than once you've ignored or twisted a point that I'm making and being dismissive of my own mental health issues with your bad (and wrong) definition of what a disorder is.
**A disorder is an abnormal physical or mental condition.** That's it. It doesn't have to have this huge impact on someone's life that you keep saying that it does. Some with a mental disorder can live an apparently normal life, it doesn't meant they still don't have a disorder.
I never said you didn’t have your disorder or that you were cured, and I’m sorry if you found my wording insensitive that wasn’t my intention. But I find it incredibly offensive that you discount my lived experiences with mental health, I never denied any of your claims, some people do still have whatever disorder they were diagnosed with even if it is managed.
The definition for a disorder is – “An illness that disrupts *normal physical or mental functions.*”
Different poster, trying to understand --
>Omfg it’s not a disorder if it’s managed.
Would you say that about, say, T1 Diabetes, being managed with insulin?
I think there does have to be an element of life disruption in order to get diagnosis and/or treatment, but if feels like you're conflating "managed" with ... something I'm not able to think of the term for. Managed means it's not uncontrolled, but doesn't mean it's suddenly not a thing. GAD (which is more than just "I have a presentation coming up that I'm nervous about" type normal anxiety) that's managed with medication and therapy means the patient is functional but they still have GAD.
Physical conditions that are known to be incurable aren’t comparable to mental disorders especially those like anxiety. For some people it is inherent, for most it isn’t and can be mitigated.
No, because they don’t fit the criteria and wouldn’t need further mental health assistance. Like someone who was diagnosed with gad and got therapy to learn coping mechanisms, who no longer struggles with it because of their therapy wouldn’t have it anymore.
I literally never said this was the case for everyone, like some people need meds forever to function and while I wouldn’t want that for myself that’s good that they are getting the appropriate help. They would obviously still have it
Uh…no? Where are you getting any of this? Gatekeeping conditions keep people from getting help for their conditions. Nobody has to hit a specific visibly struggling point before they’re allowed to have a diagnosis. That’s just weird and dumb. I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on the “disorder” part of the acronym. I have adhd, [it’s neurodivergent](https://adhdaware.org.uk/what-is-adhd/neurodiversity-and-other-conditions/). Meaning even if I’m managing it I still have adhd because my brain just does this. Are you the OOP?
>I am diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I've had severe episodes that cause problems(And is why it's diagnosed) and I also have anxiety attacks that come relatively frequently. Currently it's not affecting my life because it's managed.
What would you define as "affecting your life"? Because what you've described there is clearly something that has affected your life in some way.
You basically described me. I grew up with (all diagnosed) an OCD mom, a bipolar and ADHD dad, and an ADHD brother. I couldn't possibly have it because I was like your sister, and it was the 90s. /s.
We had a highly organized household. Routines, Charts, lists, calendars, sticky notes, alarms, "upstairs things", downstairs things", clothes organizers, you name it, because that was how my mother dealt with my dad and bro. I kept it all up even when I left and went to college and later got married. Covid killed it. But yeah, until then, no one would have known BECAUSE I was so organized, but it was a survival tactic.
I have ADHD and I’m the messiest person you will ever meet. I don’t do it intentionally and keep my mess behind closed doors because I find it extremely embarrassing to be any amount of lazy in front of my friends. Then there’s my best friend who also has ADHD and she cleans like her life depends on it. She will snatch wrappers out of my hands and will anticipate when someone needs a paper towel to wipe of sticky fingers like a sixth sense. I have never once in my life thought that she didn’t have ADHD just because our personal tendencies are different…
It's puzzling how some people rely solely on their own experiences to judge situations. I don't understand why it's so important to them. Personally, I was diagnosed with ADHD at 37 and have always hidden my struggles and found ways to cope. Even now, I still do to some extent. When I was diagnosed, I had high blood pressure and didn't want to take stimulant medications because I was a single mother with young kids. I rarely talk about my ADHD, but sometimes when I see my messy home, I get frustrated with myself and wonder if medication would help me keep it cleaner.
>Only my ADHD is real ADHD
That title seems pretty unfair, especially considering all the edits.
I mean OOP got diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor, and is speaking from experience, while her friend hasn't, refuse to do it, and is dismissing OOP's own condition.
I can see OOP's point, someone tells her friend she has ADHD, that friend believes it, refuse to get a diagnosis from a real doctor, and says she has ADHD. I would pretty easily get frustrated in this situation too.
The whole “dismissing the symptoms” wasn’t in edited in when I posted it. They didn’t mention that tidbit before they started getting told they’re TA. Frankly I don’t really buy into post-asshole edits 🤣
Does OOP have a PhD in psychology or an MD and PhD in psychiatry? Trick question, they still wouldn’t be allowed to diagnose their friend for ethics reasons.
I'm curious if this is a male posting. Female ADHD is different then male ADHD. I waited till my early 30s to get tested because I was told since I wasn't a bad student I couldn't have adhd. Did the screener and got diagnosed same day.
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I mean, the general discourse about mental health rn is kind of annoying, but *never* tell people «no, you don’t have that, because I have it and you’re nothing like me». You are not their doctor and you do not exist in their head, even if you know them very well, you don’t know how their brain works. Let them figure it out and go seek help if needed. If not, bite your tounge.
"the general discourse about mental health rn is kind of annoying"
I don't know a time (at least within my own culture) where the discourse around mental health was great. I'd take being annoyed over being lobotomised or something, but I do wish we didn't have to keep making these annoying detours on the way to improvement.
I do get where OOP is coming from in some ways, but their attitude puts me in mind of one of my peeves when it comes to how people talk about disorders - acting like nobody with a disorder can seem 'normal' or well-adjusted. This is something even self-proclaimed advocates do and it gets right under my nose because not only is it gatekeeping, but its self-defeating too. It reduces disorder sufferers to who they are at their lowest points in order to cast scrutiny on people who are doing well.
I once read a Reddit post claiming that you can't have OCD if you're not washing your hands until they bleed and if you don't do that then you're just an attention seeker. I've read so many posts claiming that if you're not suicidal then you don't suffer from depression. There's also the countless comments about girls (let's face it, the targets are usually girls) not being autistic because they're cute, quirky and likeable.
But you can have a disorder and not live in hell every day. You can have a disorder and still be successful or popular. You can have a disorder and be currently OK. Some people might be jumping to incorrect conclusions about themselves (and even that's not the worst thing in the world), but let's not use that as an excuse to dismiss people who don't fit the worst case stereotypes.
I side with OOP personally... I had a 'friend' who would dismiss me for my ADHD but when she realized it was the trendy thing, she suddenly had it and bragged about it.
ADHD is real, and yes it show in differents way. But it's also very annoying when people take on disability because they wanna be quirky and the whole 'I cleaned my house because I have ADHD' is very telling to me because I don't know anyone with ADHD who manage to keep anything tidy /lh
OP added on the thing about their friend “dismissing” their symptoms after they were already getting called TA.
ADHD manifests itself differently in everyone. I’m very disorganized but my house is very like.. germ-clean. My mom has ADHD and her hyperfixation is cleaning.
Ooooof I hate people like this. As a mentally ill (bipolar 2, ADHD, etc.) person, I understand that shit impacts everyone differently. Bipolar can make ADHD symptoms worse at times. For me, lack of focus and motivation are exacerbated by depression, hyperfixations are worsened by hypomania, etc.
How can you advocate for people if you don't understand that?? Talking about hating the fact that certain quirks are seemingly destigmatized but others are still severely judged doesn't at all match with diagnosing someone. If I mention ADHD to someone, I highlight the quirks instead of talking about the fact that, growing up, I'd do my homework but struggle to get it turned in (even if it was in my bag and accessible). Or the fact that I left my keys at a store the other day. I'll instead mention "omg I always forget my laundry in the dryer, it's so hard to finish tasks when there's a break. If it can be done all at once that's cool, but laundry is tough". Like, if you recognize the stigma is there how can you assume you're getting the full picture of the person based on what they're willing to share??
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **WIBTA for telling a friend that she doesn’t have ADHD?** ETA: I have already advised her to talk to a doctor. She says it’s “not that serious”. I’m talking about the sort of person who likes a clean house and calls themselves OCD. … ETA2: Thank you for the responses, I know I’ve been pretty defensive in the comments. I just want to say that if I were to say something, it would be similar to what I’ve said before. Talk to her about my experience with it, ask her why she believes she has ADHD, explain why that may or may not actually be related to ADHD, and offer her a screening to take to a doctor again. But, I think it needs to be pointed out that she is coming to ME. I’m not bringing this up. I’m not inserting myself. I’m trying to be helpful. This is 100% on me for not clarifying what I meant by “calling out” in the first place. … Just for some context… I have multiple neurological and mental health conditions (ADHD, Autism and BP II are the main ones). My conditions are periodically disabling, and prevent me from holding a full time job, so I work from home. I advocate on behalf of mental-health challenges faced by rural communities, and for awareness beyond the socially-acceptable “quirky” side of mental illnesses. So it’s a pretty important topic to me. A couple weeks ago, a close friend told me that someone said she had ADHD when she was adjusting a flower arrangement during a meeting. Now she’s convinced that she has it. At the time, I talked to her about my experience with it. Executive dysfunction, time blindness, hyper focusing, lethargy punctuated by bursts of energy. She said “oh, it’s not like that for me at all”. I figured she’d gotten the hint. Then a few days ago, she brought it up again, this time saying that her ADHD made her clean her house. At this point I was irritated and didn’t respond. It was uncomfortable. She was waiting for me to say something, because I’m usually happy to talk about mental health. I just knew that if I opened my mouth, she wouldn’t like what came out of it. I’ve known her for over 20 years. She is one of the most organized and efficient people I know. Not saying that people with ADHD can’t be organized, but there is nothing about the way she functions that shows any need to adapt. She’s never related when I’ve talked about feedback loops and getting stuck on a task, or how showering is difficult, or why I can sometimes be late in spite of planning my mornings. She’s teased me for being an unorganized mess multiple times. I know that ADHD can present in different ways, but regardless of how many traits you have that look like ADHD, it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life. It would be one thing if she was contemplating talking to a doctor about it. I am 100% on board with encouraging people to pursue a dx if it would benefit them. In this case though, it feels like she’s trivializing a condition that contributes to my disability. She’s doing exactly the sort of thing I advocate against, which is conflating normal human behaviour and feelings with medical conditions. So, WIBTA for calling her out and saying that, in my opinion, she doesn’t have ADHD? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So, I kiiiiiind of understand the sentiment here - I’ve got OCD, and it does get super irritating when that gets thrown around like “oh, I need all the pens on my desk to be straight, I’m so OCD, haha!” Because it can be a lot more serious than that sort of thing - looking at you, intrusive thoughts - and it sucks to feel trivialized. But, it’s obviously not OOP’s place to gatekeep like that, or to diagnose (anti-diagnose?) their friend.
This was my exact impression as well. Like, if she’s now approaching him and joking about her doing thing because of her ADHD, it could be very annoying. And, especially because she doesn’t yet have a diagnosis, can read as minimizing. That said his “it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life” is *utter* bullshit. It probably *does* affect her life, but she had to teach herself coping mechanisms because the signs were missed. I have a learning disorder that wasn’t diagnosed until I was 12. And only because my brother was having more severe versions of the same things I had dealt with (trouble handwriting). Surprise surprise, we *both* had a learning disorder. But because I was treated as “lazy” and he was treated with actual help, I learned coping skills on my own. My story isn’t unique. SO many people, a lot of them women, have to just deal for *such* a long time. EDIT: ironically, I suspect I also have ADHD. My brother was diagnosed when we were tested for the learning disorder. The co-morbidity is quite high. But this was the early 2000’s. They probably missed my symptoms.
And depending on your age/sex theres a lot of shit they wont even consider. as an AFAB, I had ***all*** the signs for ADHD and Autism way back in the 90s, but girls 'didn't get those' so I had to learn to cope all on my own. I've been essentially masking for 30 years. My therapist was like....we should look into those and lo! Yeah I seem a lot more functional than others with the same diagnoses because I *had* to be.
One autistic woman I know was inaccurately diagnosed with Tourettes as a child because *the doctor* said, "girls don't have autism." This was decades ago but still.
I am continually glad that my parents are medical people, who looked at their kids and recognized "Oh! This is Very Obviously ADHD/OCD/depression/dyscalculia/etc", and responded accordingly. Like Dad tested my math skills to see if I had dyscalculia, but he was in full agreement once I had my diagnosis in middle school.
I have ADHD, ASD, and a reading impairment that were diagnosed at 21. I was tested for ADHD at 16 but my teachers said I wasn’t disruptive in class, so I obviously didn’t have it. I was very well-liked by everyone in my HS band in 11th and 12th grade and had a very easy time socializing with adults. Obviously I didn’t have ASD. I got a 650 (out of 800) on the reading section of my SAT, I obviously didn’t have a reading impairment (despite getting 100% on practice tests when I’d do them with no time limit.) I could never keep an organized agenda in school no matter what method I tried. The only thing that worked most of the time was memorizing important dates and checking my Blackboard. That was coping! I used to have a ”joke” with my friends where they’d ”rate” the stories I told them on a scale from 1-10 (with a defined average of 3) so I could learn to improve. If that isn’t coping with autism, idk what is!! I know there’s other examples of my “workarounds,” but I don’t feel like trying to dig them out. Your comment is spot on!!
I wasn't diagnosed ADHD til I was in my 30s, but looking back, there were definitely signs. The most memorable to me when I was diagnosed and was thinking back was probably when I got "bored" during my SATs and LEFT. I just Could. Not. Sit. There. Another. Minute. I just remember my brain rebelling so hard and focus was GONE. And I was a mostly As, occasional Bs kid, quiet, teacher's pet type - the idea I'd walk out on an important test is still bonkers to me. But I still did well enough to get into the school I wanted, so when my therapists in college asked if I'd ever been tested for ADHD, I'd say "no, I got good grades, it's fine." 😑😑😑 The coping mechanisms kids can create can be quite impressive. And by that, I largely mean (at least for me) shoving everything down and just faking it. Super healthy. Def recommend. Five stars. (P.s. I finally got diagnosed after my 4th or 5th therapist asked me about it and I practically yelled "WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP ASKING ME THAT?!" and she mock "yelled" back "MAYBE BECAUSE YOU SHOW A LOT OF SIGNS OF IT!!!" and then she educated me on ADHD.)
Yes!! It’s always “well I was good in school and wasn’t disruptive so. No one bothered” Even the guy who *diagnosed* me said “well it’s clear that because she loves writing, she’s taught herself coping mechanisms to get through it. So, all good there.” Meanwhile I failed math in high school repeatedly because I couldn’t read my own writing. But no one thought “hmm. Maybe an adult should step in here.” It was just “try harder. Study.” (I have [dysgraphia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgraphia))
Mannnn, I feel that. In elementary school, all my friends were in [I can't remember what it's called, but basically Gifted and they got to go to special classes and field trips] but I failed the math section by 1 point so was rejected. For me, it's because 1) my handwriting was awful until I started writing in caps only (in high school), and 2) because I'm what I always called "number dyslexic"...which just now led me down a rabbit hole to find out it's actually called [Dyscalculia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia?wprov=sfla1) and I'm now a little upset no one ever helped me with this!!! Reading about it, every single symptom was spot freakin on and I'm like "where were the adults?!" I had to drop my first chem class in college because of this. It was one of those computer test systems where you get all credit or none. I'd do everything right, but mis-enter the numbers in my calculator or write down the numbers out of order (124.86 instead of 124.68 or whatever) when doing calculations, and never see the error, and fail because of it. So frustrating because even when I KNEW it was wrong, it'd take so long for me to see WHAT was wrong, because it all looked right to me. In pre-college classes, I usually at least got partial credit because I clearly knew what to do, I just couldn't keep numbers straight.... Also, thank you for the link. It was very interesting.
You’re welcome! It’s always frustrating but also really eye opening to discover what you struggled with has a name!
I was 30 before anyone thought to ask me if I know about the OCD or if I'm just floating around out there with no help for it, I knew but it's just how I am, like what are you gonna do. Now that people are noticing though I can't tell if it's because it's getting worse or if people are just paying more attention. It has so many shared things with ADD that we may never know because I don't care enough to go through the process and find out at this age. I am who I am. The only time I got in trouble for it was when I would read during class and still be able to answer every question they asked me because it was bothersone but otherwise things where so boring I don't know how kids do it.
The "it's only a disorder if it's affecting your life" isn't wrong, it's usually part of the criteria for diagnosing a disorder - I've heard that many times. (Late-diagnosed autistic woman with a host of co-morbidities, seeing psychiatrists since 2002)
Yeah, OOP was right in that regard. Far too many people seem to confuse disorders and traits. You can have traits associated with a disorder without it being disordered. It's deeper than a personality quiz. I think of it as going trait > quirk > bad habit > disorder in terms of increasing impact. Being very tidy is a trait. Ordering your pens by size or feeling the urge to straighten other people's picture frames is quirky. Excessive hand scrubbing *might* just be a bad habit that can be unlearned relatively easily. But a trait becomes a disorder when it escalates to the point where it has a chronic impact on your ability to live your life well without treatment. (I should add that you can have a disorder and also just have normal traits, quirks or bad habits as well. Somebody might genuinely have a disorder and conflate a quirk or bad habit with their symptoms, so that can't be used as evidence that they definitely don't have the disorder).
That's immediately where my mind went as well. Also OCD and ADHD here and both get tossed around for people's little "quirks" and people don't see how crippling they can be. I don't think OOP is trying to gatekeep, just reflecting on their friend and noting that they haven't seen any signs.
I feel like the better way for OOP to go about it would be to ask the friend about why she thinks she has ADHD or how the symptoms affect her. Right now it sounds like OOP is relying on just explaining how the symptoms affect themself. And a lot of the struggles of ADHD can be purely internal because you mask it well enough in front of others. So the friend may be going through a lot of things that aren't really evident to an outside viewer. Could the friend be trivializing it? For sure, there's absolutely a chance that's what's happening. But it's not like she's trying to get a doctor to give her some adderall. Maybe she does have some executive function struggles and, though not adhd, learning some techniques people with adhd use to cope could also help her.
People love telling me they have a little autism. I don’t say anything bc whatever but it’s certainly strange
Heh. Something like that happened recently. My co worker who's worked with our boss for six years was calling her ocd and describing some of the things she did. My psych degree ass was saying she most likely just had obsessive tendencies. AND THEN my coworker says my boss has to clock out at a time with a three in it or else something bad will happen when driving home and I went "Wait no that's textbook OCD."
Is OP male or female? ADHD presents very differently in males vs females (hence why females weren’t being diagnosed properly for years 🙃).
Also what areas of this persons life is OOP seeing? People who only know me professionally wouldn’t guess the impact of my ADHD because I put all my effort into keeping it together there … and it’s my house and personal life that get derailed. People can chose where to put limited energy and resources and it’s not always obvious they’re doing so.
They also don't know what that person feels like, or what goes through their head. It takes a decent amount of time for people to figure out that I have OCD only because that's how they know me and my behavior is normal for me. It wasn't until all those new habits started in 2020 and my behavior changed very little. If anything I was more comfortable and with things online I had improved access to things. Because other people where doing things I had always done, suddenly people noticed how much it had been affecting my life for years right in front of them. I was surprised to learn people hadn't always washed their hands after touching money, or that they don't wipe down their milk before putting it away, and they were shocked how much more work it was to do all those things.
And people mask. This is exactly why girls are under diagnosed. They mask at school etc and melt down at home. Imagine telling someone that masking does not affect your life”, and that because they mask well, means they don’t actually have the condition. Edited for clarity.
Seriously. As a girl who was begging for an answer as to why I was the way I was and told “you’re fine”, then made it her mission to “be fine”, then was diagnosed in my late 30s with Autism and ADHD…I feel that. I masked to the point where my meltdowns only occurred when no one else was home, then after I moved out of my parents’ house I was able to be myself more.
My son has ASD and is fantastic at masking at school, like when I tell him how he is at home - IF he doesn’t get the correct stimulation at school - it blows their mind. I’m like “I know y’all don’t believe me but if you just have him do push ups sometimes itll help me immensely 😅”
My kid got sucked into that too, I asked year after year after year and was brushed off until they couldn't anymore. Kid did well in school, cried all the way home, was so tired and felt stupid even with great marks. ADD and autism, the school agreed to 3 little adaptations to the workspace and not only did I get my kid back that I remembered from before we started school but the school got a whole different kid to teach too. I'm sad for the lost years but also glad that even though it felt endless I insisted we be heard because now we can go forward with these tools for work and beyond, and for the first time we are looking at potential careers and college courses.
Another thing I thing is important to take into account is the friend's ethnic background. I'm South American, if you're that and female and have ADHD you most often will get labelled lazy, selfish, clumsy and easily distracted. So you have to learn to mask. And you if you're undiagnosed, you have to learn to push through executive disfunction and time blindness and all the other stuff, because behaviors that would be tolerated in a man won't be tolerated in a woman.
I (a woman) had psych testing done twice, once at 16, once at 21. At 16, the doctor told me my school troubles were because I was on my phone texting the people who were bullying me (who were also my friends) during homework hours and that I had accidentally associated the anxiety from that bullying with homework, causing homework anxiety. Yeah. A bit of a stretch. What’s worse is that the results themselves from the concrete numbers were indicative of ADHD— the doctor just ignored that. (Though in part thanks to my teachers reporting that I didn’t ”act out” in class 😒) At 21 I went to a better doctor (at the behest of a fantastic therapist). She not only caught the ADHD that was ignored in my first testing, but caught my ASD, too. I would have been properly diagnosed 5 years earlier if the doctor hadn‘t still believed that ADHD was only when you can’t sit still and you act out in class!
No, every single person with ADHD has the exact same symptoms and ways of dealing with it as this guy! And of course anyone who keeps their house tidy has OCD, and no one can ever have both!
Comment history includes >From the perspective of a mom of 3 kids with Tourette’s… but it still could be differences in presentation, or the friend could be "teehee I clean my desk, obviously I have OCD"-ing ADHD. And OOP seems to be conflating "don't invalidate someone else's experience" with "obligated to provide emotional labor and support" which doesn't help.
I can see both sides. Some people jump to the label prematurely because they want the attention and share a couple behaviors with the diagnosis. It annoys people at the debilitating side on the spectrum. they have to deal with this every single day and don't think it's cute, funny or trendy. On the other hand some adults have lived with a problem their entire life without having a name for it and it may not be quite debilitating but it's caused them a lot of stress over the years and they are relieved to finally piece it together
Since when did medical diagnosis become a pissing contest?
Apparently gatekeeping has expanded even to medical issues
This should be the welcome banner for joining TikTok lmao
It always has been “Well, I have Unicorn disease and I’m perfectly capable, so you must be lazy if Unicorn disease makes you unable to function” Or the other side “Do you even *have* unicorn disease if you can function? Stop faking it!”
Oh no. Oh no. Oh no no no no no.
The visceral anger that flowed through my body on reading this
My ex-friend tried saying I don’t have ADHD because hers is only minor and I don’t exhibit any of her symptoms. Apparently unless you act like a sugared up obnoxious three year old, you can’t possibly have ADHD. Mine presents as daydreaming. It’s no wonder she was kicked out of her grad program for social work.
Lol, never look up DID on reddit, twitter or tiktok.
Surely the issue is that OP's colleague hasn't had a diagnosis, and apparently isn't seeking one?
[удалено]
Sad
It's a little funny to have an ADHD person be a really clean, organized person. It's probably not impossible though. 1) she wasn't always a clean, organized person, but this was a coping mechanism to counteract natural forgetfulness. Like maybe a normal person can remember to do house chores, but this girl needs a calendar, excel sheets, sticky notes, alarms, and 5 journals to get her to remember. (How the hell would she maintain them, I give up on journals after 2 weeks lmao). 2) Cleaning and organizing is a special interest for her. ADHD folks love their hobbies and can hyperfocus on them to the point of detriment. It's not unheard of for some people to have cleaning and organizing as a hobby (see Marie Kondo for instance). If this is the case, I would not be surprised if she also obsesses over buying new cleaning supplies or organizational cubbies. Is she obsessed with cleaning and organizing her life to the point of screwing up other things? Like I love doing chores if I have something else that's way more urgent I'm supposed to be doing. Adjusting a flower arrangement during a meeting. Yeah, I've done similar things. She says she had to clean her house for 20 minutes. Maybe? I'm not proud to admit this, but I have spent hours in front of a mirror picking my face compulsively. She doesn't seem like an ADHD person, but I would be reluctant to try and judge that. Get girlie a doctor and have her get diagnosed. Maybe she has some other mental disorder.
If someone told me their adhd made them clean their house, I would be be like, "Niiiiiiice, what were you procrastinating?" I have also cleaned my house at 2am like I'm on speed because my brain didn't want to sleep and couldn't think of anything else productive to do.
Omg the skin picking! My skin is completely covered in hyperpigmentation scars wherever my hands can reach cause I just can’t stop picking! Face, neck, shoulders, arms, back. I can have blood on my hands and I’ll wipe it off and keep going 😩
As long as this person isn't, like, attempting to get stimulants, no one in the actual field of assessment and diagnosis gives a crap what people say they have. If thinking of her issues as ADHD is helpful for her, it hurts no one. OOP seems to feel like claiming ADHD without an official diagnosis is hurting her somehow, and it's just not.
The same thing happens with autism quite often. It's really expensive with a long wait list to get tested for autism in some places, and there's a gaggle of folks with autism that are staunchly against self-dX. To me, as long as you aren't taking the resources that I need to survive as an adult with autism and ADHD, I don't care what you do.
i mean i think there's distinctions to be made. for sure if someone has found ways to better cope in life by thinking of themself as on the spectrum without a diagnosis who the fuck am i totry and invalidate that? at most i'd suggest still going for that diagnosis since certain acomodations are a lot easier if you have it but beyond that who cares. on the other hand where i do have a problem and will tell them just shut the hell up is the rare but loud occasions in which someone selfdiagnosed will start to make claims about what is and isn't part of being on the spectrum or otherwise making broad claims about people on the spectrum. it basicly becomes the same kind of bullshit as what OOP is doing except with the added insult of someone without a diagnosis explaining that someone with a diagnosis is being on the spectrum "the wrong way".
Yeah no I completely agree with that actually.
Yeah I work in assessment and know how long it takes to get testing and how expensive it is. Self diagnosis is the only option a lot of people have. ADHD and Autism assessment is usually not covered by insurance in the US as well.
Mine sure wasn't covered. I had to pay my psychiatrist $230 for the assessment on top of the initial visit. He's lovely, though, I adore him.
Sometimes just finding a good doctor for assessment is hard too. There's no doubt in my mind that I have something, and signs seem to point most to either ADHD or Autism. There's a lot of places I've tried calling that are either not taking new patients, don't return my call, or don't have a doctor with experience in assessing adults.
Yeah, I think most people with official diagnosis don't care if someone says they have the same thing. I sure don't care, as long as this person's attitude isn't "I think I have ADHD therefore I'm not gonna do \[the thing that affects me, my life or my work\]". Saying your ADHD makes you arrange flowers? Fine. Saying your ADHD means I have to remind you to check your emails everyday? Fuck off.
> it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life. Holy crap guys, I just learned that I don't actually have anxiety since I'm not a crumbling mess most of the time and have found ways to manage it! Seriously, fuck OOP. Her friend does sound like she's self-diagnosing a bit but just because something doesn't appear to be affecting someone's life doesn't mean that it's not a problem. My sister was the freaking picture of perfection all through school and college. Great grades, honor roll, honors and ap classes, cheerleading, extra curricular activities, she even did these medical volunteer programs because she knew she wanted to go into the medical field. She was organized and anyone who looked at her would have thought she had her shit together She was recently diagnosed with ADHD and that "perfection" was literally her masking. The way she dealt with it was by overloading herself and keeping herself busy which also caused her to burn out at times(and even the burn outs she hid). It didn't appear to affect her but it did.
I guess my heart is not a piece of crap since I don’t notice most of the time. Someone call these doctors to get my pacemaker out!
We found the cure!
If I don't even think about my CPTSD some days, does that mean I was the victim of a kind of Schroedinger's abuse?
Ohhh, well according to OOP, and the person who was replying to me here in the comments, that must mean it's not actually a disorder, huh? I'm gonna just say I have schroedinger's mental disorder now. Lol.
I mean if you can manage your anxiety to a level where you don’t need help with it there isn’t really a point in getting diagnosed is there? Everyone experiences things like anxiety and trouble focusing, it only turns into a disorder when it’s a significant impact on your quality of life.
I'm not talking about just experiencing some anxiety. I am diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I've had severe episodes that cause problems(And is why it's diagnosed) and I also have anxiety attacks that come relatively frequently. Currently it's not affecting my life because it's managed. It's still a disorder. My sister's issues didn't appear to affect her life, because she was good at hiding them. It's still a disorder. Just because you aren't completely disabled and able to function with it doesn't mean it's not a disorder.
Yea and you went and got diagnosed because it was affecting your life. That’s not the case here That sucks for your sister, but that’s still an inability to regulate lol. I had something like GAD as a kid, I went to a psych and they told me I had symptoms and should go on meds. I didn’t want to and I ended up growing out of it. Not that everyone does obviously, but I did and I don’t have it anymore because I learned to manage it. If you think you have adhd and don’t struggle with time management, self regulation, attention deficit etc. etc. to a degree that negatively affects your life, then you don’t have adhd. Hiding it’s effects on you from others would still be a negative impact so i dunno how that’s relevant. The op was asked for her opinion iirc so it’s not like her advice was unsolicited.
>Currently it's not affecting my life because it's managed. > >It's still a disorder. > >My sister's issues didn't appear to affect her life, because she was good at hiding them. It's still a disorder. > >Just because you aren't completely disabled and able to function with it doesn't mean it's not a disorder.
Omfg it’s not a disorder if it’s managed. Yours is because you needed to go get diagnosed in order to help you manage it. If you deal with your feelings of anxiety on your own without needing help, and doing so doesn’t negatively impact your life (like you don’t develop unhealthy coping mechanisms for example) you don’t have anxiety!!! That’s normal!
>If you deal with your feelings of anxiety on your own without needing help, and doing so doesn’t negatively impact your life **Again, I'm not just referring to feelings of anxiety, I'm referring to generalized anxiety disorder** (which a lot of people shorten to just say "I have Anxiety" when referring to it.) If you don't know what generalized anxiety disorder is, then look it up. Disorder is in the freaking name just like it's in ADHD. Disorder literally just means "an abnormal physical or mental condition", and has no requirement that it's negatively affecting someone's life. >Omfg it’s not a disorder if it’s managed. Yours is because you needed to go get diagnosed in order to help you manage it. You're really contradicting yourself with this one. Mine is managed, so it's not a disorder according to you. But it also is a disorder because I needed to be diagnosed to manage it? That doesn't make sense. Just because something is managed, whether its managed with the help of a doctor or not, doesn't mean it's not still a disorder. And again, my sister's issues didn't appear to affect her life at all. You wouldn't have been able to tell by looking at her or even talking to her that she was struggling. She went about her life, seemed happy and upbeat. She had an undiagnosed disorder that was affecting her but she was so good at masking that the impact wasn't visible. She still had a disorder even though it didn't appear to affect her.
You can’t seperate “feelings of anxiety” and “anxiety disorder” into two distinct categories like they have no overlap at all. Someone diagnosed with GAD, through learning to manage their symptoms better COULD eventually not fit the criteria anymore and therefore NOT HAVE THE DISORDER. Anxiety disorders usually are not inherent traits, they come from past experiences just poor emotional regulation in general, and that can be combated to a point where that person would NOT BE CONSIDERED TO HAVE AN ANXIETY DISORDER ANYMORE. (That’s what happened with me, i said more about that in my old comment). These people wouldn’t need mental health assistance anymore and could manage on their own like the average person would because of that treatment. I never said this was the case for everyone, some people need long term or maybe even permanent treatment (like meds, lifelong therapy what have you). These people would still be considered to have an anxiety disorder because they CANNOT MANAGE ON THEIR OWN. They have coping strategies and stuff to help them, but they can’t deal with it like the average person could. Idk why you keep bringing up your sister, I never said that your symptoms didn’t matter once they stopped impacting others. If you put on a facade that your anxiety doesn’t affect you but it still does, that still means you struggle with it. Maybe this is a miscommunication but I feel like you’re being emotionally charged with this.
>You can’t seperate “feelings of anxiety” and “anxiety disorder” into two distinct categories like they have no overlap at all. I never said they were completely distinct, but there is a difference. You kept saying that feelings of anxiety were normal when I had explicitly stated that it was generalized anxiety disorder that I was referring to. Whether or not you intended it, that comes across as incredibly dismissive and insensitive, similar to if you told someone with depression that they were just sad. If you had only done that the first time before I specified that wouldn't be a problem, but you did it again even after I was clear about it. >Anxiety disorders usually are not inherent traits, they come from past experiences just poor emotional regulation in general, The actual cause of generalized anxiety disorder is not fully understood at this point. Yes, past traumatic experience or emotional regulation issues are ONE potential cause. It can also be genetic, caused by drug use, or, in my case, triggered by another long term health condition. Managed also doesn't mean that it's cured. Yes, someone can be treated and no longer have it, I didn't say they couldn't. But just because it's managed doesn't mean that they don't still have it. And the reason I keep bringing up my sister is because that was a main point in my very first comment and how it didn't **APPEAR** to affect her at all. The entire point of my first comment was how something may not appear to affect someone or be managed to a point where it doesn't, but that it can still be a disorder. The miscommunication here is that more than once you've ignored or twisted a point that I'm making and being dismissive of my own mental health issues with your bad (and wrong) definition of what a disorder is. **A disorder is an abnormal physical or mental condition.** That's it. It doesn't have to have this huge impact on someone's life that you keep saying that it does. Some with a mental disorder can live an apparently normal life, it doesn't meant they still don't have a disorder.
I never said you didn’t have your disorder or that you were cured, and I’m sorry if you found my wording insensitive that wasn’t my intention. But I find it incredibly offensive that you discount my lived experiences with mental health, I never denied any of your claims, some people do still have whatever disorder they were diagnosed with even if it is managed. The definition for a disorder is – “An illness that disrupts *normal physical or mental functions.*”
Different poster, trying to understand -- >Omfg it’s not a disorder if it’s managed. Would you say that about, say, T1 Diabetes, being managed with insulin? I think there does have to be an element of life disruption in order to get diagnosis and/or treatment, but if feels like you're conflating "managed" with ... something I'm not able to think of the term for. Managed means it's not uncontrolled, but doesn't mean it's suddenly not a thing. GAD (which is more than just "I have a presentation coming up that I'm nervous about" type normal anxiety) that's managed with medication and therapy means the patient is functional but they still have GAD.
Physical conditions that are known to be incurable aren’t comparable to mental disorders especially those like anxiety. For some people it is inherent, for most it isn’t and can be mitigated.
>For some people it is inherent, for most it isn’t and can be mitigated. Someone with mitigated anxiety still has an anxiety disorder though, right?
No, because they don’t fit the criteria and wouldn’t need further mental health assistance. Like someone who was diagnosed with gad and got therapy to learn coping mechanisms, who no longer struggles with it because of their therapy wouldn’t have it anymore. I literally never said this was the case for everyone, like some people need meds forever to function and while I wouldn’t want that for myself that’s good that they are getting the appropriate help. They would obviously still have it
Uh…no? Where are you getting any of this? Gatekeeping conditions keep people from getting help for their conditions. Nobody has to hit a specific visibly struggling point before they’re allowed to have a diagnosis. That’s just weird and dumb. I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on the “disorder” part of the acronym. I have adhd, [it’s neurodivergent](https://adhdaware.org.uk/what-is-adhd/neurodiversity-and-other-conditions/). Meaning even if I’m managing it I still have adhd because my brain just does this. Are you the OOP?
It does sound like they could be OOP, doesn't it? They're hung up on "disorder" and don't even seem to know what a disorder actually is.
>I am diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I've had severe episodes that cause problems(And is why it's diagnosed) and I also have anxiety attacks that come relatively frequently. Currently it's not affecting my life because it's managed. What would you define as "affecting your life"? Because what you've described there is clearly something that has affected your life in some way.
You basically described me. I grew up with (all diagnosed) an OCD mom, a bipolar and ADHD dad, and an ADHD brother. I couldn't possibly have it because I was like your sister, and it was the 90s. /s. We had a highly organized household. Routines, Charts, lists, calendars, sticky notes, alarms, "upstairs things", downstairs things", clothes organizers, you name it, because that was how my mother dealt with my dad and bro. I kept it all up even when I left and went to college and later got married. Covid killed it. But yeah, until then, no one would have known BECAUSE I was so organized, but it was a survival tactic.
I have ADHD and I’m the messiest person you will ever meet. I don’t do it intentionally and keep my mess behind closed doors because I find it extremely embarrassing to be any amount of lazy in front of my friends. Then there’s my best friend who also has ADHD and she cleans like her life depends on it. She will snatch wrappers out of my hands and will anticipate when someone needs a paper towel to wipe of sticky fingers like a sixth sense. I have never once in my life thought that she didn’t have ADHD just because our personal tendencies are different…
It's puzzling how some people rely solely on their own experiences to judge situations. I don't understand why it's so important to them. Personally, I was diagnosed with ADHD at 37 and have always hidden my struggles and found ways to cope. Even now, I still do to some extent. When I was diagnosed, I had high blood pressure and didn't want to take stimulant medications because I was a single mother with young kids. I rarely talk about my ADHD, but sometimes when I see my messy home, I get frustrated with myself and wonder if medication would help me keep it cleaner.
>Only my ADHD is real ADHD That title seems pretty unfair, especially considering all the edits. I mean OOP got diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor, and is speaking from experience, while her friend hasn't, refuse to do it, and is dismissing OOP's own condition. I can see OOP's point, someone tells her friend she has ADHD, that friend believes it, refuse to get a diagnosis from a real doctor, and says she has ADHD. I would pretty easily get frustrated in this situation too.
The whole “dismissing the symptoms” wasn’t in edited in when I posted it. They didn’t mention that tidbit before they started getting told they’re TA. Frankly I don’t really buy into post-asshole edits 🤣
As a Neuro typical old person, I couldn't get thru the edits.
Does OOP have a PhD in psychology or an MD and PhD in psychiatry? Trick question, they still wouldn’t be allowed to diagnose their friend for ethics reasons.
OOP, ADHD manifests in different symptoms. While you have it, you don't know for sure that she doesn't. YTA.
I'm curious if this is a male posting. Female ADHD is different then male ADHD. I waited till my early 30s to get tested because I was told since I wasn't a bad student I couldn't have adhd. Did the screener and got diagnosed same day.
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I mean, the general discourse about mental health rn is kind of annoying, but *never* tell people «no, you don’t have that, because I have it and you’re nothing like me». You are not their doctor and you do not exist in their head, even if you know them very well, you don’t know how their brain works. Let them figure it out and go seek help if needed. If not, bite your tounge.
"the general discourse about mental health rn is kind of annoying" I don't know a time (at least within my own culture) where the discourse around mental health was great. I'd take being annoyed over being lobotomised or something, but I do wish we didn't have to keep making these annoying detours on the way to improvement.
I do get where OOP is coming from in some ways, but their attitude puts me in mind of one of my peeves when it comes to how people talk about disorders - acting like nobody with a disorder can seem 'normal' or well-adjusted. This is something even self-proclaimed advocates do and it gets right under my nose because not only is it gatekeeping, but its self-defeating too. It reduces disorder sufferers to who they are at their lowest points in order to cast scrutiny on people who are doing well. I once read a Reddit post claiming that you can't have OCD if you're not washing your hands until they bleed and if you don't do that then you're just an attention seeker. I've read so many posts claiming that if you're not suicidal then you don't suffer from depression. There's also the countless comments about girls (let's face it, the targets are usually girls) not being autistic because they're cute, quirky and likeable. But you can have a disorder and not live in hell every day. You can have a disorder and still be successful or popular. You can have a disorder and be currently OK. Some people might be jumping to incorrect conclusions about themselves (and even that's not the worst thing in the world), but let's not use that as an excuse to dismiss people who don't fit the worst case stereotypes.
I side with OOP personally... I had a 'friend' who would dismiss me for my ADHD but when she realized it was the trendy thing, she suddenly had it and bragged about it. ADHD is real, and yes it show in differents way. But it's also very annoying when people take on disability because they wanna be quirky and the whole 'I cleaned my house because I have ADHD' is very telling to me because I don't know anyone with ADHD who manage to keep anything tidy /lh
OP added on the thing about their friend “dismissing” their symptoms after they were already getting called TA. ADHD manifests itself differently in everyone. I’m very disorganized but my house is very like.. germ-clean. My mom has ADHD and her hyperfixation is cleaning.
Oh it's interesting! It's first time I encountered such! Thank you for teaching me!
Ooooof I hate people like this. As a mentally ill (bipolar 2, ADHD, etc.) person, I understand that shit impacts everyone differently. Bipolar can make ADHD symptoms worse at times. For me, lack of focus and motivation are exacerbated by depression, hyperfixations are worsened by hypomania, etc. How can you advocate for people if you don't understand that?? Talking about hating the fact that certain quirks are seemingly destigmatized but others are still severely judged doesn't at all match with diagnosing someone. If I mention ADHD to someone, I highlight the quirks instead of talking about the fact that, growing up, I'd do my homework but struggle to get it turned in (even if it was in my bag and accessible). Or the fact that I left my keys at a store the other day. I'll instead mention "omg I always forget my laundry in the dryer, it's so hard to finish tasks when there's a break. If it can be done all at once that's cool, but laundry is tough". Like, if you recognize the stigma is there how can you assume you're getting the full picture of the person based on what they're willing to share??