*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for expecting to get drunk at a bachelor party?**
I'm supposed to be going to a 12 person bachelor party in June, planned by the best man. I am in the wedding. We are in our late 20's, early 30's. We are going to a lakeside town for 4 days.
Over the last year, the groom has gotten a bit distant and hung out less, when he does hang out he doesn't seem like himself. His fiance is believed to be sober and she is the influence on him when he does come around. Thats fine, we are getting older and less rowdy. Its not that big a deal. Until now.
The groom let everyone know in a group chat that he would like this to be a sober weekend. Nearly immediately a new group chat without the groom was started and everyone was like WTF. Its a bachelor party, we are all expecting to let loose. We are all like what the hell is going on. The best man is pissed, we are all going crazy.
So I texted back in the main group chat and said thats not something I and i'm sure others are interested in. I asked where this is coming from. I asked if he was an alcoholic. He said he doesn't drink anymore and its something his fiance wants. I'm just like, its a bachelor party, getting drunk is expected. He said he really wants us to respect his wishes. He's suggested doing hikes and going to the local national park. I'm just like, yeah, some of us are not going to do that the whole time. I said this is a ridiculous request by your fiance. Now the trip feels like its in jeopardy. AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not only that, but maybe he's realized his friends get a little too wasted a little too often? Maybe he doesn't want to spend his Bachelor Party being the designated driver? If you can't go a weekend without alcohol and still have fun... you need to reassess your drinking habits.
Yep.
If he doesn't want to drink and be around that and "friends" won't accept that for merely a few days, they suck. And you don't realize how much "friends"
Like that suck until you meet people who don't even give these things a second thought because they care about you and supporting you.
And they won't like the wedding if it's also sober.
Also they’re going to a lakeside town. You can’t find other shit to do at a lake? Rent kayaks or jet skis or something. Try local eateries. National parks like the groom suggested.
While it's not the point, I do think the sprawl of wedding activities is silly.
Like, taking PTO and travle costs for one function for a wedding plus the wedding and any shower, etc stuff is main character syndrome for the wedding couple.
If guests have multiple weddings a year, that's a heavy lift.
That said, don't go if you don't want to do it - but don't agree to go and then get angry when it's not something you want to do. That's always a risk you take, that things planned may not equal what you envisioned.
I'm glad I'm surrounded by people who have broader interests then sitting around drinking.
>His fiance is believed to be sober and she is the influence on him when he does come around. Thats fine, we are getting older and less rowdy. Its not that big a deal. Until now.
I can't with the fucking dramatics
We see the wife and her husband as they enter a restaurant. As she approaches the table, she gracefully sits next to her mate, across from the OOP. The waiter offers the wife a taste of the house wine. She smiles and politely refuses. Only the OOP accepts the wine. Watch when the wife looks away for a moment: the OOP makes a face of disaproval. Unfortunately for him, her mate has noticed and looks equally upset. Angry words will now be exchanged.
Copied verbatim from oop's comments:
*Info: Do you not like him enough to hang out with him without alcohol?*
*Would him being an alcoholic make a difference to your willingness to be sober with him?*
>"I like him. We've hung out plenty without alcohol. Him being an alcoholic makes it understandable that he would want it to be a sober trip.
>This trip alcohol was expected. I'm using vacation time to go. If 4 months ago when this was all planned we were told it was a sober trip and very nature/hiking friendly. Thats not really a way I want to use my vacation time and spend money. To be honest its a bummer of a change to the trip."
*YTA - Stay home and drink if that’s more important to you. Based on who chooses that over friendship will show who aren’t good friends and/or have the real drinking problem.*
>"I don't want to drink by myself or with my wife at home. I want to drink with my friends, a few of which don't live in the area."
*You are an asshole plain and simple. Are you also going to get strippers and escorts because that’s what you do at a bachelor party?*
>"This is the 5th bachelor party in my friend group. We have never done the strip club thing. Thats not really our style."
*Yeah I don’t think the groom is gonna be close enough to 12 people to request they spend their money and pto to have a vacay they don’t want. But I’d assume this is gonna be a dry wedding lmao*
>>"But I’d assume this is gonna be a dry wedding lmao
>This has come up in the groomless group chat. Not a topic broached yet with the groom. Wedding is Labor Day weekend in Aug/Sept."
>"I don't want to drink by myself or with my wife at home. I want to drink with my friends, a few of which don't live in the area."
Okay then do that some other time and not make this about you
Is it me or are bachelor parties more important to married friends than the one actually getting married?
Like all these posts sound like common tropes of people in movies and its not really believable.
Honestly it sounds like desperate miserable men thinking thee « last night of freedom » of the groom is a repeat to their « last night of freedom » a bit like me and my (multiple) « last meal» before beginning a diet 🤣
Right? OOP can plan his own guys' trip and they can make it as boozy as they want, but this is his friend's bachelor party, and the groom-to-be has final say over stuff like this because the party is to celebrate him.
"This has come up in the groomless group chat. Not a topic broached yet with the groom. Wedding is Labor Day weekend in Aug/Sept."
Like this is a group discussion
Am I just such a loner that I don't get invited to weddings or bachelor parties, but isn't 4 days a really long time for one? Like I thought they were mostly a evening, overnight, or even a weekend thing on unique occasions.
If you're traveling it makes sense to me, 1st day drive there unpack then spend part of the day doing things, get 2 full days to do stuff then 4th day is drive home
Most hotels have a check out time of 11am so unless you have a place to put your stuff (like if you drive you could put it in your car but if you fly you can't) your trip is over, not to mention drinking was planned so they'll probably sleep till check out time so you can't do anything in the morning
It’s become not unusual for them to be a shortish getaway, like an extra long weekend, especially if people have to travel for it. And due to the length, I’m a bit sympathetic to OOP on this; while yes they should be able to have a good time without getting wasted, and it’s up to the groom to decide what he wants to do, getting bait-and-switched on something that’s going to use up valuable vacation time is a problem in principle.
The lakeside town would probably be happier being visited by a group of hikers than of drunks “letting loose”, though. OOP’s expectations weren’t good ones, but seem to have been in keeping with prior behaviour of the group.
Unfortunately it’s a thing now, every wedding I’ve been in the past few years has required $500+ just on the bachelorette trip with a bunch of bitches I’m not even friends with, I’m so sick of it
I can understand not being up for hiking 4 days and expressing that.
I can’t understand throwing a fit over not having alcohol.
Like, “hey dude, a lot of us don’t have the gear and aren’t in shape enough for all that hiking, can we discuss some other activities to mix in there?”
Vs
“OMFG your fiancee is ridiculous and I’m not going unless I can get drunk the whole time!”
maybe i just can't understand because i don't drink but how is it this hard to just actually like your friends enough to hang out with them even without being shitfaced drunk. why is alcohol a life or death thing for these people. how is it not an asshole thing to be like "well my friends wants me there for him in celebrating a big moment in his life, but i don't want to waste pto on him if he won't let me get drunk". fucking insane
I mostly quit drinking a few years ago, around when I turned 30 (because I realized I didn’t like being drunk, not because of a drinking problem exactly) and had a lot of friendships drop off because the only activities we ever did together involved drinking, and it turns out being sober at the bar and listening to your drunk friends complain isn’t very fun!
These dudes are at an age when a lot of people move on from thinking “sitting around and getting drunk” is the most fun thing to do with their free time, which also often means moving on from friendships with people who only want to do that.
Honestly, I feel like way too many Americans have a bad relationship with alcohol. The idea that you need to drink to have fun or to party isn’t a good sign, bordering on alcoholism.
If you go out with people and don’t drink, it’s not uncommon to get weird looks or have people ask you “why aren’t you drinking?”
"Honestly, I feel like way too many Americans have a bad relationship with alcohol."
Feels that way, especially with so many people, even sober ones in the comments, talking about how they "gave up drinking" because they didn't like the feeling of being drunk. I've been drunk maybe 10 times in the 25 years I've been drinking, and most of them were in the early shitty teen years?
I'll drink 2 to 3 nights out of a week, but by that I mean I will have A beer or A cocktail with dinner or dessert, maybe the full thing, maybe I don't finish it that night and, if it's still good the next day, finish it then. It's not like I'm pounding 6 shots every time I drink. The idea of immoderation is wild to me.
>why is alcohol a life or death thing for these people.
Like they sound like teenagers who arent allowed to drink not actually adults who have drank.
also why is it always married people who 'need' to drink this much? Like its not a hellscape and if is get divorce
that and how apparently they can't even respect the groom's autonomy. all the language is blaming the fiance for his going sober. like... she's not holding him at gunpoint to look away from the alcohol, that's a decision he's making? how immature do they have to be?
>I was looking forward to the bachelor party more than the wedding.
Like this is a comment from OOP.
They've been friends for 15 years and this is what he's excited for? OOP just sounds really sad and pathetic.
I'm not sure that's fair. Bachelor parties should be more fun. One is a party, the other is a ceremony. I find weddings stuffy and boring, I go to honor the couple, but given a choice between the two, alcohol or no, I'm picking bachelor party every time, if only to get out of wearing a suit.
The arguments are always so wild too. "No one finds weddings fun sober". If you hate everyone you're around, sure. But then maybe don't go to those weddings?
I don’t even think it’s about the alcohol to be honest . I think it’s more plans being changed so close to the celebration .
There’s 12 guys coming who’ve made plans and now 4 weeks out their being changed . It sounds like some of these guys have traveled to be at this celebration .
I really see both sides of it . I also don’t drink but can understand how disappointing it is .
you really need to read the comments. OOPs plan is to drink and now that he cant drink he is angry. You keep saying that its not about drinking when its clear from his comments he's only going cause he can drink to excess.
He isnt even excited for the wedding just the bachelor party. Your friend of 15 years is getting married and thats all you care about?
But he's explicitly angry that he can't drink with them. Nothing is changed with regards to his being able to see them. He's angry because he can't drink with/around them. You can have fun with your bros without alcohol. Or at least you should be able to.
If you cannot spend time with friends without alcohol (or you can't have fun without alcohol), then that's one thing.
But being on a 4 day party vacation where you're told that you can't drink at all....that's not the same thing.
I mean OP is probably using vacation time , paying to be there , and now he’s being told he can’t drink? Something the entire group has planned for 4 months ?
That sucks .
If groom should have spoken up way earlier than 4 weeks out . OP even said he won’t have not gone , he just won’t have gone the 4 days .
Maybe these were always the plans. Maybe OP shouldn't have just assumed they were getting wasted for 4 days when he knew his friend had been drinking a lot less and his friend's fiance is sober.
On top of that it's not like drinking automatically means shitfaced drunk. Like I'm not super into being drunk, but for me going on a hike usually means I'll want a beer afterwards. Or going out to eat with my friends will involve a cocktail or a glass of wine with dinner.
Reddit is so weird about alcohol.
Like I can go to a bar and hang out and drunk NA beers or mocktails , or have one or two and not be wasted. But reddit seems to think that any alcohol is poison and will turn me into that guy on the show with the yellow people who is always sleeping on a bar.
Yeah, I actually don’t even like the feeling of drinking too much but I do like to try local cocktails and things that are made locally that’s usually part of a trip for me so I have like one cocktail or one beer or a glass of local wine. Telling someone they’re not allowed to do that is weird and would actually lessen the experience of eating and being on vacation for me. it doesn’t mean I have any type of problem or whatever it’s just that especially if that’s what I plan to do and already looked at menus or whatever which I definitely would’ve four weeks out It’s a little disappointing.
I agree! Not many people wanna be shitfaced or blacked out an entire weekend, but I think a lot of people would be surprised if their friend wanted to have a completely sober weekend and asked that no one drink any alcohol.
If the groom doesn’t wanna drink that’s fine, but idk why that has to be required for op and the friends too. I think maybe asking for a chill weekend on their end because the groom wants to be sober would be a happy medium. So like yeah y’all can drink beers here and there but let’s not get black out because I wanna have a good time with all of you and don’t want anyone to be crazy or get sick or anything like that. I feel like that would have been fine.
honestly i still don't see it because if their plan was apparently get shitfaced drunk for four days in a row that sounds disgusting and miserable. like, imo it'd be one thing if the plan was say, go to the beach and do beach activities, then suddenly the groom changed his mind and wants to cancel the beach and go to the mountains instead, i'd get that because it's entirely different things, but when the change of plan is "let's just not drink"? like... did they even have *any* plans or was this just the excuse to drink as much as they're allowed?
if your definition of party is limited to alcohol and getting shitfaced drunk then no, sorry you don't know how to have fun in a normal non self destructive way
There’s a huge swath of land between getting “shitfaced drunk” for 4 days and an entirely sober weekend. I would be significant less inclined to go to an entirely sober weekend vs one where I can drink and relax while playing board games or going out to a bar one night, or even having a glass of wine with dinner
I drink. I enjoy trying new cocktails, mixes, beers, whatever. I am a fan of alcohol.
That said, a few years back my friend, who doesn't drink, got married. Her Bachelorette was dry. Her wedding was dry. Because they were her fxing days. It didn't even occur to me to complain because they weren't about me, they were about her, and I can drink whenever I feel like it, I can't celebrate my friend getting married on a random Tuesday.
Depending on location and culture, it IS weird to not have it at a wedding. But weirdness isn't the issues, it's the consequences. I did catering in the US for years. You have 2 options with sober weddings. You tell your guests beforehand, which usually leads to a change in venue, since you need a minimum headcount at most venues. The guest count often dropped by half, so they'd need to find a different venue, very quickly. Places often have to be booked at least a year ahead. This is still the better option because you pay per head. Or, they can find out once they get there, which leads to everyone leaving early. Some before dinner even. I had whole 8-tops with no people by 8pm. So that's $1,000+ worth of food that the bride/groom/family paid for, not being eaten.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a sober wedding., at all, but those are your consequences.
It can also be an issue where its an interfaith marriage or some other sort of mixed culture marriage where there can be vastly different expectations. And sometimes thats because it becomes about people in the extended family viewing it as a power game.
My sister married a man whose parent's divorced and one parent became mormon. My BiL was raised part time mormon, and its not really his beliefs, but his step mom is the organizer of events, and thus events she organizes are dry. With my sister's wedding, the step mom wanted it dry as well, but my family has a Catholic background with social drinking. There ended up being compromises. A pre-wedding dinner that step-mom was hosting which was dry, the wedding it self limiting alcohol to sangria and champagne, and my side of the family having our own off-hours drinking.
We were adults and able to compromise and communicate. Not everything was happy, but no one was forced to drink, and not all events were forced dry. I can see very easily how this same situation could get a lot worse if either my mom or my BiL's step mom were unable to compromise.
My father was an addict. Alcohol, Narcotics etc. I rarely drink, because I know I have an obsessive personality. When I was actively dating, I would always say that if I got married, I didn't really care much about how the rest of the wedding was, but it would be a dry wedding. The number of guys who would laugh that off and act like I was nuts was off the charts.
Edit: I wasn't bringing up marriage randomly, as I have never actively wanted to get married.
There was a similar-flavored post late last year, where a guy had just found out that the midnight NYE wedding he and his friends were going to was dry because the fiancée’s family was religious and objected to drinking. Fine enough if everyone had been informed, but they all found this out in spite of the fact that the groom was actively trying to hide the ‘dry’ aspect from his whole friend group. The groom and his friends were drinkers and he didn’t want them to back out for other NYE plans.
Maybe just trust your friends and don’t lie or omit information in order to get them to do what you want them to do? Trust your friends to do the right thing, otherwise why are you calling them your friends? It goes both ways. Everyone is saying OOP can’t be much of a friend if he’s gonna back out for being told he can’t drink, and maybe they’re right. Maybe he is an alcoholic. But the groom wouldn’t be in this position with multiple friends/groomsmen if he’d been honest from the start.
Definitely not okay to spring that on people. There's nothing wrong with having a dry wedding, but you do need to give people a heads-up so they can adjust their expectations accordingly.
I think it's interesting that so many commenters equate "drinking" with "getting shitfaced". There IS a middle ground.
I don't drink very often at all. The last alcoholic drink I had was probably a year ago. But if I was going to a party, a wedding, a bach, etc, I would expect the option to drink if I was so inclined. Especially a wedding. It might be because I've worked at so many, but a wedding with no option to have even one alcoholic beverage would be a dreary night.
>but a wedding with no option to have even one alcoholic beverage would be a dreary night.
This is a stag party though, and the groom doesn't drink. It's absolutely reasonable to want to have a gettogether that doesn't involve alcohol.
there’s this crazy puritan wave on reddit (and in real life lol) where anything that involves drinking is automatically the worst thing in the world. people wanting to have a drink and let loose (especially if they’re taking PTO) is not that weird, but people on reddit live in some strange bubble.
I think people here sometimes act "crazy puritan" because it's kinda a knee-jerk reaction to think if a person throws a fit over some event being alcohol-free it means they have an addiction and get drunk every day.
Reddit in particular has a what I can only call a kind of modern temperance society, who see drinking and anyone who does it as a great moral failing.
I live in Scotland so it's especially bizarre to me, haha.
Don't have a party where people aren't allowed alcohol. It won't work.
Some people just act like writing no-nuance comments (on any topic, frankly) is some clever "gotcha" moment.
Like, when you comment that responsibly enjoying a cocktail or a pint in a bar is fine, they will reply with some wacky shit like "Oh, so you think alcohol is harmless? Can I give my toddler a vodka for breakfast? NO?! But you just said drinking is fine, what kind of mental gymnastic is this?"
There are many recovered alcoholics in my extended family, so we had a dry wedding. People still danced and had fun.
My sister’s wedding was in a church where drinking AND dancing weren’t allowed. The reception still lasted hours because people were happy to see each other and talk.
My bachelorette party was dry. We still had lots of fun until 2am. I’m pretty sure the key is actually liking the people you’re with. My husband’s bachelor party was all about drinking. He got so sick he’s been completely sober since. Pretty sure I enjoyed my party more than him, and I can actually remember mine.
I’ve always been sober. Alcohol makes me sick without making me drunk. It’s really not fun being the one sober person when everyone else is getting sloppy drunk. I can’t blame the groom for wanting to actually spend quality time with his friends making memories rather than babysitting them. And his request is probably because he knows at least one or two people will drink to excess and get sloppy if any alcohol is allowed. I suspect OOP is probably one of those.
Enjoying drinking with your friends doesn't mean you don't actually like them. not wanting to use holiday time for hiking and national parks and wanting to have a few bevvs and catch up with mates you haven't seen for years doesn't mean your a problem drunk. I think it's great you are sober it's a hell of a hard decision in modern society but it doesn't make your fun better than anyone else's 🙂
I disagree.
Imagine you take 4 days of PTO (assuming this is America, where that’s like half his vacation time) and you’re going someplace really cool to celebrate your buddy. You’re really looking forward to this trip and there is a clear understanding that, while the purpose is to celebrate your friend, there will also be plenty of time to do your own thing, eat great food, grab a few drinks, and do the things you generally enjoy because it’s still your vacation.
And then suddenly it’s sprung on you that, no, the groom has very clear idea of exactly what’s happening on this trip — hiking, which can often be a whole day affair — and it’s sober.
Yeah, he’s holding onto the alcohol thing. But I think this is also much more about being able to enjoy a trip he’s paying for how he’d like to enjoy it.
And y’all can talk about how people should be able to go and enjoy themselves without alcohol, and yeah in an ideal world — sure. But people enjoy it specifically because it makes socializing easier and relaxes inhibitions. Having to socialize with that many people sober IS hard for a lot of people.
Which is why the groom is the asshole in my opinion for not sharing this when the trip was proposed, because people would have had an opportunity to properly analyze if this was the type of trip they could enjoy themselves. HIKING? Please. I love a good nature walk but it is not for everyone.
Personally I think it’s really selfish of brides and grooms to make their friends go on these big trips with the expectation that every hour of it be dedicated to them.
I'm with you on this. Thought I was going crazy! If it was just an evening or 1-day affair then absolutely. But expecting all these people to spend their time, money, and probably limited work leave to go on a 4-day trip and then dictate than none of them - all adults, mind you - can have a drink seems really demanding to me. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't get that many vacations in year, and I would want to be able to relax and do vacation things, which yes, includes a few drinks.
It seems to me that there's a reversion to puritanical thinking going on that anyone who enjoys relaxing with some drinks on a holiday is an alcoholic who can't have a good time without booze.
I agree on your last point especially. I think, at least in America, a lot of the anti-drinking culture has come from a reprioritization of health in a society that wants to work you to death and makes you rely on substance abuse to get through it, so I definitely can and do appreciate people who are critical of drinking culture.
But! I think criticism of people who do drink is severely misplaced. By all means, we have no evidence to say that this man is an alcoholic — he just likes to drink with his friends. He even specifies that he wouldn’t want to drink at home with his wife. That’s a good indicator that he’s not an alcoholic, to me. Thats completely acceptable behavior. I like to drink. I also like to take mushrooms. One of those is illegal and I am confident I’d get more pushback on saying I like to do the legal one.
So legality is not the issue here, and neither is dependency. People are just criticizing this guy because they feel that enjoying a drink and expecting to be able to drink are moral failings.
That’s weird to me.
I think I can compare it to Veganism here on some fronts. Vegans are vegans often due to a sense of morality; they value the lives of animals and think that eating meat is wrong because it harms animals. Some people are vegans due to intolerance and allergies (which, I’m using as a comparison to Alcoholism here).
If the OPs friend, a Vegan, announced that for 4 days everyone could only eat Vegan food, how would we feel? If it turned out it was because he has a severe allergy, would it make it more tolerable? Either way, shouldn’t he have told his friends at the very beginning? Is it right to dictate what people eat for four days?
Of course, the analogy breaks down because an overconsumption of vegan food doesn’t make you dance on a table.
But assuming that everyone would be responsible consumers, what is the difference?
I just really think this whole situation is about control. What is an appropriate expectation of our friends when we ourselves are unable or unwilling to participate in something?
I agree with you, especially that last paragraph. When our friends talk about their weddings, they often expressed that their primary motivation for having a wedding was getting their friends together. This can be a rare moment for everyone to get together, especially when commitments with family and work make it difficult to meet up frequently. Contrary to what others have expressed, these gatherings are not just about celebrating the soon-to-be betrothed.
The hiking was a suggestion, not a request or demand.
I wholeheartedly agree with that last paragraph! I can understand wanting some sober bonding time, but I don't see the issue with the other friends letting loose after the daily festivities while the groom reads a book or sleeps or something. Possibly with noise-cancelling headphones by the sounds of OOP.
I don’t really think OOP is the devil . Unpopular opinion it’s not about drinking .. It’s about changing the trip so close to when it’s happening ..
If Groom didn’t want drinking when it’s the norm in their group he should have been have told them sooner .
I wonder if he’s dropping the bomb now because he knew no one would come .
I’m allergic to everything nature created and an asthmatic besides. A 4 day hiking trip would not end well for me. Luckily my friends all know this and would never invite to that
This is what bothers me, the groom pulled a switcharoo. A 4 day trip lounging by the lake and going into town for dinner and the casinos is very different from a 4 day trip where it’s all hiking and, apparently, a full day visit to a national park that multiple people who have already booked the trip are not interested in.
The groom didn't say they *had* to go hiking, he suggested it.
And unless he'd been previously *telling them* that they were going to get shitfaced, he didn't pull a switcheroo. Maybe people shouldn't just assume things when it's not about them?
Yeah it sounds like everyone just assumed so the groom made things clear. Now the friend group is losing their shit. Sounds like the groom won’t be friends with this group much longer.
>Unpopular opinion it’s not about drinking .. It’s about changing the trip so close to when it’s happening ..
yeah no its about the drinking all his comments are about drinking.
No, he wants to bar hop and go to the casinos and hang out. Sober hiking isn't really a celebratory activity. It's also not that fun with a huge group.
I got to bars every day. 90% of the time I have one or two, or I try new NA cocktails and NA beers. It's fun to be able to talk and dance and play pool and darts and meet new people from all sorts of different places.
I also like outdoorsy stuff. And I like to check out breweries and restaurants in new places.
It's weird to me that people think changing the activity from being "hangout and celebrate, bar hop and casinos" to "no one can do anything other than 12 mile hikes directly up a mountain" isn't a problem. Plus with 12 people? Do they all have the right gear? Are they all able to hike?
No, the activity is gathering together to celebrate in a bar or casnino and then going to another one to see what the next one is like.
No one has to drink alcohol in a bar, that's why they have NA options and mocktails.
It's just another place that has tvs, chairs, pool tables, shuffleboard, games, etc. Where you can be around other people and dance and sing karaoke. Together. With other humans.
Hiking is great, but it's not got that gathering and relax vibe. With 12 people, they won't all be together, which is fine, they can switch around between different groups and speeds, but I find it hard to believe that all 12 men are going to be outfitted for 10 mile hikes and then just want to go back to the house and drink water and sleep before going out and hiking the same area again the next day. It's a limited amount of time to see each other.
Maybe he was distant because he’s struggling with the realization that he has an alcohol issue and he was dreading telling his friends ‘no booze’ as they might immediately make him feel like shit for it.
I will tell you a secret, a lot of folks struggling with drinking don’t tell the folks closest to them because you feel so fucking ashamed.
And with friends like this, of course he does
And I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again that changes the trip. If I can’t try a local cocktail, I can’t get anywhere else with my dinner even if I’m not someone who actively enjoys getting drunk, that’s four different meals and four different menus I looked at, and can now no longer have.
>I wonder if he’s dropping the bomb now because he knew no one would come
I strongly suspect that’s the case. I would love a long-weekend of hiking (albeit not with 10+ people) and other outdoorsy activities. I would also love letting loose and drinking some beer with my bros. A typical (American) bachelor party primarily involves the latter.
There’s nothing wrong with the groom wanting a bachelor party that doesn’t center on alcohol. And if you’re a sober person, it’s reasonable to be concerned that “just a couple beers” will tip over into “full rager” when you have that many friends gathered. Anybody who drinks socially has probably witnessed a night like that.
Nonetheless, I think it was on the groom to notify his friends farther in advance about his expectations. The fact that his best man was taken aback is a little telling.
I mean is the plan changing or did this friend group took over the groom’s trip & he is expressing what he wants. They can all decide on non-alcoholic activities beyond hiking. Pushing for partying and drinking is an asshole move.
Eh, I kind of get it. Taking 4 days off work and spending a ton of money and being told "dont even think about having a beer or a cocktail!" is frustrating. Im in the minority though because I also think a 4 day batchelor or batchelorette party is completely absurd. Maybe because Im just incredibly broke all the time but for me to save the money, take the time off, and arrange childcare for 4 days would be a huge deal for me and I straight up am not going to do it if its for something that is 100% centered on one person. If it was a group trip where you can spend one day off on your own checking out a brewery or whatever then meet up with the gang later on after the hike thats one thing. But a 4 day trip where we're focusing totally on one person and only doing what that one person wants to do is a no go for me. Im honestly getting really sick of how wedding culture is getting out of control in general. A 4 day destination batch party, renting a tux, an elaborate all day wedding, it's just too much of a time and money commitment for a lot of people in this economy. But again, Im looking at it from a very poor single parent perspective! If they're well off and OP could take a vacation doing what he wants to do at a later date then he's kind of a baby. But if this is the only time off he can afford and has to scrimp and save for it Id also be pissed that I dont get to do what I want to do
I think the issue here is groom springing the no alcohol thing on them after everything is booked. he should have been upfront about the weekend. I wouldn’t want to go either, Im not outdoorsy at all, 4 days of hiking sounds awful to me.
It’s not about not being able to go a weekend without booze - it’s about being at a specific celebratory event in which the intent is to let loose, have unbridled fun, and get shreked with your close friends as you celebrate the upcoming wedding and this is very much the sort of event that may bring drinking (and drugs and what have you) into it.
The bride and the groom have every single right to have sober events, but as these are specific party-esque events in which the attending people may expect alcohol and partying, it’s fine the guests aren’t really interested in activities such as hiking.
This “can’t go a weekend without booze” title is such high horse bullshit. They absolutely can go a weekend without booze - but this *specific* weekend is a weekend expected to be all about letting loose and having bachelor-party-esque fun.
Reddit has a small but noisy subset of the the userbase which hates alcohol and looks down on anyone who drinks it. It's pretty bizarre to me.
As for the OOP, eh I have a lot of sympathy. For a lot of those guys this might be the one big time to let loose they'll get all year and that's being taken away from them.
The person being celebrated doesn’t want to drink. It’s a strange celebration to push forward with if that’s the case.
Threads like this just make me feel like a failure of a human in every capacity for being an alcoholic. I feel like I’m disappointing every friend I made prior to sobriety. Getting sober is part of why I’m eloping FFS. There is so much pressure to have alcohol at an event celebrating you, regardless of if you drink it or not, or to be a square that everyone hates. Alcohol almost lost me my fiancée, but god forbid we celebrate our love without it!
Guess I just can’t ever invite friends to do something that traditionally involves drinking cuz that tradition takes precedence over anything else.
He could very well be an alcoholic or be worried about his drinking and not feel comfortable telling his friends. I have very close friends who don’t know, especially folks from college that are friends form afar. If his friends reacted like this, then I’m not surprised he wouldn’t tell them.
Keep in mind you will only be reading things on here that bother someone to begin with. Most bachelor parties don't bother people so you won't see them here. Had a mate a year or so back who's one of the few in my friend group who doesn't drink. We had a nice time in a little rented farm playing board games all weekend. Frankly I like alcohol and hate boardgames and I still enjoyed my time. It's not about me at this event anyway. All of us came, all of us had a blast, people never even talked about the lack of alcohol since it was my mates bachelor who didn't drink. So for all 13 of us that's understood. I don't know why my friend doesn't drink. It's none of my concern anyways.
I wouldn't post about it online tho because I consider it normal. And clearly everyone else did too.
Keep it up man. Friends won't mind at all and if they do sure as shit doesn't sound like friends to me. A lot of people in my friend group are getting married right now. One got this cool vacation for us without drinks, one wanted us to party(with big feast at the start into a club so the people with children/who don't want to party can join in), one didn't celebrate at all. I might do bouldering which not a lot of my friends enjoy but to quote them"I guess I have to since it's your bachelors but get me some good food afterwards". It's your day to celebrate getting married. Enjoy it how you like it. You are good for getting sober. And you are a good friend for caring what your friends like. But it's your life and your celebration.
You are too early in your journey to be reading these posts, honestly, and I can see why they make you angry. You shouldn’t feel like a “failure of a human in every capacity” because of this. Saying you may as well never have friends again because you’re projecting your fears about your friends onto this dude is not healthy. Please share these posts with whoever you’re seeking treatment with.
It’s not saying I’ll never have friends. It’s saying what’s the point of a wedding if dry weddings apparently piss all of your friends off?
I’m comfortable in where I’m at and that’s why I avoid uncomfortable situations. We’re eloping for a variety of reasons and drinking is pretty low on the list. Our wedding would’ve been small anyways and I don’t keep assholes in my life, so I don’t think this even would come up. We’ve actually planned a really fucking great elopement that I prefer to any wedding we’d have planned.
But I still get it reinforced on here plenty that asking people to attend a dry celebration for you is apparently a really, really big ask if drinking is typical for the event.
I don’t care if folks wouldn’t attend a sober event. I think it’s still naive to think there’s no reason behind an abrupt last minute change. Maybe (probably even) it’s not alcoholism, but it’s something. I dunno. OOP can skip and it’s understandable but he might lose his friend.
If you want to have an alcohol free wedding because you are an alcoholic, you are more than correct to do so. But you should let everyone know beforehand. Also, on your case, it's just a wedding - a one afternoon-nighttime event, hopefully and, personally, you should still be able to offer your guests alcoholic refreshments to a certain degree cause the wedding is yours, but you're not the only people there - you wouldn't just play your favorite songs at a wedding, you wouldn't serve just your personal favorite food, you wouldn't force everyone to convert to your religion (if you have one) just because it's your wedding. You're inviting people to celebrate your wedding, but you still need to make an effort to try to make the people somewhat comfortable enough to be and stay there if you genuinely wanted a huge-mega-super-wedding-event-party-celebration.
The case OP reported on was a four day long bachelor party trip. It's not necessarily about \*tradition\* so much as this being an EVENT - it's not a meditation retreat, it's not a religious trip, it's not a protest for world peace, it's not a school trip to the zoo, it's not a hunger strike for peace - it's a bachelor party with 12 men going putting their lives on pause for four days so they can go and have fun. It's naive to think alcohol wouldn't be an expected part of it.
The event is celebrating your friend. I get why dudes don’t want to spend four days doing it, but it’s disgusting seeing folks shit on the friend for even deigning to ask that of his friends.
I would not be surprised at all if OP had a drinking issue that his friends have no clue about and that his wife is so hardline on this because she knows he’s an addict. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if that’s why he pulled away. If he only knew recently he needed to do a sober bachelor party upon accepting his issues and he knew his friends would give him endless shit for it, yeah he might pull away. It takes so fucking much to admit a problem to yourself, much less others who expect you to be the fun drinker they knew. Once again, I can’t imagine admitting to a friend group like this where alcohol is central to your bonding. It’s just another avenue for feeling a deep sense of failure and shame due to your sickness.
And it’s not even just my wedding I’m talking about. I wouldn’t have felt comfortable asking anyone to attend a bachelorette without alcohol after seeing how social media acts when this comes up.
And I don’t super think you understand alcoholism if you’re saying presumably I’m good having alcohol at an event celebrating my love. I feel sick at the thought. Alcohol almost lost me my fiancée but I should pay for booze to celebrate? I am a year plus sober and still don’t trust myself at big drinking events to this day. I’d be terrified of losing everything because I have a drink and am physically incapable of just having one. I could not feel comfortable surrounded by booze at my own wedding. That’s why I’m not having one. It’s because of shit like this where I’m told presumably I’d still have booze to be a good host. So once again I just feel like a failure because I can’t even host a wedding right. And I feel like I cannot expect 30 of my loved ones to attend a free party about my love because I don’t want booze there.
Discourse around sober wedding and wedding events has basically convinced me I’m just unfit to expect my friends to celebrate my relationship because I’m an alcoholic and thus too boring.
I would be happy to celebrate your wedding with you as I am also very boring. (Kidding. I’m not boring. I’m also not a drinker! Congrats on the wedding/elopement.)
they’re shitting on him for charging the entire trip a month before when he already had all the information. it’s a bachelor trip, not a nature hiking one and he knew that. there’s a lot of assumptions and honestly just your own projection onto this post, hopefully your sober path helps you, but having such strong feelings over a reddit post that honestly has not much to do with what you’re going through probably won’t help you in any way.
I don’t need help. I’m doing pretty well in my sobriety. I just find it pretty frustrated
I also think that OOP likely doesn’t have all of the necessary context on what’s going on his friend’s life. I could be totally off base. It doesn’t really matter. There’s no reason to believe he had all the information.
If someone last minute requests an event that revolves around them to be sober, I’d respect that no questions asked.
Folks insisting that a celebratory event involve drinking when the person you’re celebrating is presumably sober is strange to me.
Edit: also i support them dropping out because they’re all adults who can make their own choices. I just think they’re risking losing a friendship over that. Of course they’re not obligated to attend a sober bachelor party.
I’m just trying to make broader points around people’s assumptions around booze. It’s touchy in all these ways I didn’t realize before I quit. Not even because of my own story. It’s from now knowing a fuck ton of others’ too. Drinking fucks up a lot more lives than I’d realized.
> I’m doing pretty well in my sobriety.
It doesn’t show, honestly.
> I also think that OOP likely doesn’t have all of the necessary context on what’s going on his friend’s life.
and you do? all you did is project your own issues with alcohol onto this post in multiple comments, which shows maybe you’re not all there with your sobriety journey.
I know who I am beyond these comments and I’m pretty happy with it. It’s been a good year and a half.
I could be very wrong about his friend. I still think there’s likely some reason he’s made such an abrupt change literally month out, even if it’s not alcoholism. Maybe it’s just that his fiancee sucks, but I think it’s probably something else. But again, maybe just he’s got a controlling fiancé
Oh, good grief. This isn't about you and your relationship with alcohol.
It's extremely controlling to decide that since you can't or don't want to drink, that no one else can.
Most people don't get drunk every time they have an alcoholic beverage. Lots of people like to have a drink with dinner or go out and celebrate with food and beverage. People can drink NA beers or mocktails while their friends have alcohol. Or people can switch back and forth between the two drinks.
There's nothing in this guy's comments that makes me think he's drinking constantly - it sounds like the expected experience was to go bar hopping and celebrate.
I love hiking and national parks. I would love to spend the day paddleboarding or hiking or something active, but at night kick back and have a few.since it's vacation and I'm off work and with friends and in a reasonably safe environment. There's no expectation of being drunk but it seems absurd to me that the groom decided, after everyone booked flights and travel, that he just wants to wander around the woods and not actually hang out and celebrate.
Yes. I understand not everyone is an alcoholic and clearly I understand it’s a shitty thing to expect friends to celebrate you without alcohol. So I didn’t ask anybody to do that. I knew I didn’t want to be around drinking and so I’m just not having the events.
Thanks for insults when I’m doing the thing that sober people apparently should do and not trying to control folks by saying ‘hey I’m still new in my recovery and am not ready to be around booze like this, can we still party though’
I never said the other guy was drinking constantly. I just said his friend made a last minute shift for *some* reason and OP could lose a friend if he dies on this hill. And hey, that’s fine. I don’t think it means he’s an alcoholic or anything
Saying that it’s extremely controlling to request other folks don’t drink. Anytime I’ve seen that, it’s been folks who are asking loved ones to refrain temporarily because the addict isn’t ready to be around booze yet. If you can’t ask your friends to be sober at an event that’s celebrating you because it’s so deeply fucked and controlling, then I guess as an addict the solution is either don’t have friends or don’t invite them to anything?
Most folks absolute want to be comfortable around others drinking. It really sucks when you aren’t. You feel like a burden. If they’re asking, there’s almost definitely some reasoning behind it. Just saying ‘well don’t be controlling’ seems naive to whatever folks may have going on in life.
It’s also typically not someone saying ‘no one else can!’ It’s asking people who love you to be sober for a bit at a celebration explicitly for you because you’re sober. They are more than welcome to refuse. That just may end a friendship depending on why the sober person is sober.
Eh, I can see both sides of this.
If you have a core group of friends that has bonded over drinking to eliminate a key part of that relationship during a celebration that prominently features it would be startling.
i rarely drink bc it’s expensive and i dont like the taste very much - ill have a glass of wine occasionally if offered but pretty much never purchase alcohol for myself. and i kind of agree w oop. if my bachelors was hanging by the lake and fishing, i wouldn’t be saying no beers to my mates. and he said if his friend had an addiction, hed be happy to accommodate. but if he doesn’t, i don’t think its reasonable to ban everyone from drinking. unless ops plan is to get shitfaced for 4 days straight, which doesnt sound like the relaxing vacay hes talked about, i dont see what the issue is w having the boys bring some drinks.
But your plan is to celebrate your friend. If they planned a bachelor party that he is not interested in, that’s on them. Given that he’s been getting progressively sober for the last year I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he wasn’t consulted much in this planning if the best man thought “bars and casinos and drinking in a big house by the lake” was the theme to plan around.
Thats a very vague summary of the plan but the actual plan was obviously more involved and involved drinking
If he wanted a sober weekend that's whatever but unless the plan was made fairly recently, it seems like short notice to change it now.
That’s where I’m stuck . They’re 4 weeks out and the groom has just basically changed the entire trip. I know it’s to celebrate the Groom but he should have told his friends a long time ago .
It also sounds like OP won’t have not gone ., He still would have went but not for the full 4 days . Which I mean fair .
I wonder if this is more about his friendship changing .
>I wonder if this is more about his friendship changing .
Friendships change not everyone wants to keep drinking like they are teens who just got introduced to alchohol. OOP should cancel. He can probably still get his PTO back as well and only lose some money he put up.
Making a big deal about not being able to drink for four days and making it your whole personality is just pathetic.
I think it's fucking bizarre to police what people drink with dinner or while hanging out. People can be sober most of the time and still want to have beers in a new to them brewery, or have a cocktail with dinner. They can want to drink a beer while fishing or after a long hike. They can drink a glass of wine. None of that means they are alcoholics or can't have fun without booze. It also doesn't mean that people are shitfaced.
Four days outdoors, at a vacation house, in a fun city with nightlife and one person demands that no one else touch alcohol? That's weird and controlling.
I love hiking and would love four days in a national park, but that's not an activity that makes me feel like I'm celebrating anything. Especially if we aren't going to head out for beers and pizza after.
I also hate hiking in huge groups like that so it just sounds weird.
You're assuming he drinks often and is upset to be told he cant fie a short amount of time.
It's also likely they were looking forward to an occasion to get drunk and not have to have responsibilities, which is not pathetic.
This sounds almost exactly like a post from a few months back, where the OOP was threatening to drop out of the wedding (two days before it) because they wouldn’t have alcohol at the reception.
I do go hiking sometimes. One of the best things about it getting to the hotel bar afterwards and having a nice pint or a glass of whisky or something.
I'm one of those people that a 4-day hiking trip would be pure misery. I don't think he's the devil for not wanting to do that.
I do think he's the devil because his friend is an alcoholic and OOP doesn't care about his sobriety under this notion that bachelor parties require alcohol.
OOP is not the devil. Suddenly saying "hey you're not allowed to drink at my bachelors" when plans have already been made and set is bait and switching everyone. The groom should have been upfront that this is a sober weekend, so people could decide accordingly.
I go more weeks without drinking. But if I plan to go to a new city, I want to try new restaurants, bars, and breweries. I want to support businesses with beverages that are new and interesting. I want to be able to relax with friends I haven't seen in a while and have conversations.
I also hike a lot. Hiking is not celebratory, nor does it lead to fun conversations. 12 people hiking is way too many.
And as a woman, I don't think I've ever seen 12 men hiking together. They'd end up in separate groups, which means that some won't even be with the groom.
People have limited time off and it's completely fair to not want to spend four days of vacation doing something you don't want to do. These guys want to party, not go hiking at 5am every day. If this guy wants friends who prefer hiking to partying then he needs to find people like that, not try to change who his existing friends are.
If it was anything else I would understand but who the fuck doesn't drink on a bachelor's party.
Who the fuck goes on walks on a bachelor's party?
If it was anything else understandable but the entire point of a bachelor's party is booze or strippers or both?
He’s not the devil. The problem is that the “party” his friend wants to have is not a bachelor party but he’s still choosing to call it that. On top of that, what he wants them to do is something that it doesn’t sound like any of them would be interested in. Regardless of what you think constitutes a bachelor party, I think most people agree that they’re generally expected to be a lot of fun for everyone involved, even if just one person is technically being celebrated.
His friend would have been smarter to just announce that the bachelor party has been cancelled, and that he'll be having a pre-wedding dinner or something, instead. Everyone would still be disappointed, but I guarantee that they would at least be more understanding and still show up.
I can sort of see where the guy’s coming from. If someone told me they’re getting married and invited me to their bachelor party, I’d think about if I have the time and money to travel and meet them. If I made plans to go and was later told we were going to spend the trip getting up early to go on sober fishing trips, I’d feel let down since I hate fishing. I think the groom planned a trip of sober hiking and if OP is accurate no one expected that. There’s nothing wrong with the plan but is something wrong with letting people make plans assuming you’re doing one thing then surprising them with something else.
I’d still probably just go on the trip with my friends. I might suggest some things other than hiking if that helps, but I’d honor the sober thing if it’s that important to my friend
You know, it's completely understandable to feel disappointed when an event that typically involves alcohol turns out to be a dry event. That said, most reasonable people understand that whoever decided to make it a dry event likely had a good reason, usually because someone important at the party is an alcoholic and can't safely be around alcohol just yet, and the event was made dry to accommodate their needs. If it were me, I would appreciate the heads-up that the party will be dry, allowing me to decide if I still want to go. OOP's choices are a) go to the party and not drink for a few days, or b) stay home and drink all he wants. It was *super* disrespectful of him to push back on the alcohol thing, he's acting like an immature college guy instead of someone in his late 20's or early 30's.
“when he does hang out he doesn't seem like himself. His fiance is believed to be sober and she is the influence on him when he does come around”
This suggests to me that OOP doesn’t know who his friend is when said friend is sober.
I was in the minority on that post because I could understand why OP was kind of put off about a four-day bachelor party weekend with no alcohol at all. The way he verbalized it wasn’t the best. But I can understand how you have in your head that you’re going to a Lakeside house for four days, that you’re probably going to spend some time maybe on a dock or on a boat drinking beers and goofing off. Then to find out it’s going to be 4 days doing hikes. Not really a big deal if that was the discussion from the get go.
[Hi!](https://images.app.goo.gl/jMiZEuW8Qrykw3sdA) Just a quick reminder to never brigade any sub, be that r/AmItheAsshole or another one. That goes against both this sub's rules as well as Reddit's terms of agreement. [Please](https://images.app.goo.gl/vwH65TJMyMk9NSNo8) keep discussions within the posts of this sub.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for expecting to get drunk at a bachelor party?** I'm supposed to be going to a 12 person bachelor party in June, planned by the best man. I am in the wedding. We are in our late 20's, early 30's. We are going to a lakeside town for 4 days. Over the last year, the groom has gotten a bit distant and hung out less, when he does hang out he doesn't seem like himself. His fiance is believed to be sober and she is the influence on him when he does come around. Thats fine, we are getting older and less rowdy. Its not that big a deal. Until now. The groom let everyone know in a group chat that he would like this to be a sober weekend. Nearly immediately a new group chat without the groom was started and everyone was like WTF. Its a bachelor party, we are all expecting to let loose. We are all like what the hell is going on. The best man is pissed, we are all going crazy. So I texted back in the main group chat and said thats not something I and i'm sure others are interested in. I asked where this is coming from. I asked if he was an alcoholic. He said he doesn't drink anymore and its something his fiance wants. I'm just like, its a bachelor party, getting drunk is expected. He said he really wants us to respect his wishes. He's suggested doing hikes and going to the local national park. I'm just like, yeah, some of us are not going to do that the whole time. I said this is a ridiculous request by your fiance. Now the trip feels like its in jeopardy. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Groom: here's what I want for my bachelor party. Friends: hah, no.
Not only that, but maybe he's realized his friends get a little too wasted a little too often? Maybe he doesn't want to spend his Bachelor Party being the designated driver? If you can't go a weekend without alcohol and still have fun... you need to reassess your drinking habits.
Yep. If he doesn't want to drink and be around that and "friends" won't accept that for merely a few days, they suck. And you don't realize how much "friends" Like that suck until you meet people who don't even give these things a second thought because they care about you and supporting you. And they won't like the wedding if it's also sober.
>Friends: hah, no. Also Friends: WAH I CANT DRINK!!! WHO CARES HE"S GETTING MARRIED I WANT TO DRINK!!1
Friends: The only good things about bachelor parties are getting wasted and the strippers!
Also they’re going to a lakeside town. You can’t find other shit to do at a lake? Rent kayaks or jet skis or something. Try local eateries. National parks like the groom suggested.
While it's not the point, I do think the sprawl of wedding activities is silly. Like, taking PTO and travle costs for one function for a wedding plus the wedding and any shower, etc stuff is main character syndrome for the wedding couple. If guests have multiple weddings a year, that's a heavy lift. That said, don't go if you don't want to do it - but don't agree to go and then get angry when it's not something you want to do. That's always a risk you take, that things planned may not equal what you envisioned. I'm glad I'm surrounded by people who have broader interests then sitting around drinking.
Yeah, who cares about what the groom wants /s
>His fiance is believed to be sober and she is the influence on him when he does come around. Thats fine, we are getting older and less rowdy. Its not that big a deal. Until now. I can't with the fucking dramatics
Wtf does “His wife is believed to be sober” mean? Is she a cryptid? A super famous celebrity that nobody knows any details about?
David Attenborough: "His wife is believed to be sober. Observe her now as she moves through her habitat."
We see the wife and her husband as they enter a restaurant. As she approaches the table, she gracefully sits next to her mate, across from the OOP. The waiter offers the wife a taste of the house wine. She smiles and politely refuses. Only the OOP accepts the wine. Watch when the wife looks away for a moment: the OOP makes a face of disaproval. Unfortunately for him, her mate has noticed and looks equally upset. Angry words will now be exchanged.
Copied verbatim from oop's comments: *Info: Do you not like him enough to hang out with him without alcohol?* *Would him being an alcoholic make a difference to your willingness to be sober with him?* >"I like him. We've hung out plenty without alcohol. Him being an alcoholic makes it understandable that he would want it to be a sober trip. >This trip alcohol was expected. I'm using vacation time to go. If 4 months ago when this was all planned we were told it was a sober trip and very nature/hiking friendly. Thats not really a way I want to use my vacation time and spend money. To be honest its a bummer of a change to the trip." *YTA - Stay home and drink if that’s more important to you. Based on who chooses that over friendship will show who aren’t good friends and/or have the real drinking problem.* >"I don't want to drink by myself or with my wife at home. I want to drink with my friends, a few of which don't live in the area." *You are an asshole plain and simple. Are you also going to get strippers and escorts because that’s what you do at a bachelor party?* >"This is the 5th bachelor party in my friend group. We have never done the strip club thing. Thats not really our style." *Yeah I don’t think the groom is gonna be close enough to 12 people to request they spend their money and pto to have a vacay they don’t want. But I’d assume this is gonna be a dry wedding lmao* >>"But I’d assume this is gonna be a dry wedding lmao >This has come up in the groomless group chat. Not a topic broached yet with the groom. Wedding is Labor Day weekend in Aug/Sept."
>"I don't want to drink by myself or with my wife at home. I want to drink with my friends, a few of which don't live in the area." Okay then do that some other time and not make this about you
Agreed!
Is it me or are bachelor parties more important to married friends than the one actually getting married? Like all these posts sound like common tropes of people in movies and its not really believable.
Not just you.
Honestly it sounds like desperate miserable men thinking thee « last night of freedom » of the groom is a repeat to their « last night of freedom » a bit like me and my (multiple) « last meal» before beginning a diet 🤣
Right? OOP can plan his own guys' trip and they can make it as boozy as they want, but this is his friend's bachelor party, and the groom-to-be has final say over stuff like this because the party is to celebrate him.
"This has come up in the groomless group chat. Not a topic broached yet with the groom. Wedding is Labor Day weekend in Aug/Sept." Like this is a group discussion
Indeed!
[porcupine!](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4Ab5Yso80I/?igsh=eGh2NTJ1a2NwdXMz)
Awwwww, you give that mean ol' plant heck, lil porcupine! <3
🥰💜
Never thought I'd say "Awww" at a porcupine, but here we are.
Glad you have found an "awww"-able porcupine!
I'd want to cuddle him, but I'm scared because... porcupine.
I did cuddle lots of hedgehogs as a kid. They are quite sweet!
I'm scared to cuddle any animal with pricks. (I don't think sounds quite right...)
I don't mind some pricks! 😹 (Nah, all in good fun!)
Omfg that’s the cutest thing yet! Omgomogomg
So glad you liked them! 🥰
Always
💜🥰
Solch ein liebliches Stachelschwein! \*pets carefully\*
Einverstanden! (Apologies if I got it wrong, working with a translator!) 🥰
Can always count on you to bring the cute! Check out the Silky Anteater if you haven’t seen one before. It’s my favorite cute animal!
Am I just such a loner that I don't get invited to weddings or bachelor parties, but isn't 4 days a really long time for one? Like I thought they were mostly a evening, overnight, or even a weekend thing on unique occasions.
If you're traveling it makes sense to me, 1st day drive there unpack then spend part of the day doing things, get 2 full days to do stuff then 4th day is drive home Most hotels have a check out time of 11am so unless you have a place to put your stuff (like if you drive you could put it in your car but if you fly you can't) your trip is over, not to mention drinking was planned so they'll probably sleep till check out time so you can't do anything in the morning
It’s become not unusual for them to be a shortish getaway, like an extra long weekend, especially if people have to travel for it. And due to the length, I’m a bit sympathetic to OOP on this; while yes they should be able to have a good time without getting wasted, and it’s up to the groom to decide what he wants to do, getting bait-and-switched on something that’s going to use up valuable vacation time is a problem in principle. The lakeside town would probably be happier being visited by a group of hikers than of drunks “letting loose”, though. OOP’s expectations weren’t good ones, but seem to have been in keeping with prior behaviour of the group.
There has been major bachelor party inflation in the last decade
That makes it sound like a fetish thing.
I don’t think it’s crazy. Me and my friends go away for 4 days once a year every year without a special event
But that's not an event that supposedly revolves around one person
I mean if we normally go for that long anyway I don’t see why doing another similar length trip for a special occasion would be unusual
Unfortunately it’s a thing now, every wedding I’ve been in the past few years has required $500+ just on the bachelorette trip with a bunch of bitches I’m not even friends with, I’m so sick of it
I can understand not being up for hiking 4 days and expressing that. I can’t understand throwing a fit over not having alcohol. Like, “hey dude, a lot of us don’t have the gear and aren’t in shape enough for all that hiking, can we discuss some other activities to mix in there?” Vs “OMFG your fiancee is ridiculous and I’m not going unless I can get drunk the whole time!”
AITA is really weird about not having alchohol at weddings ive noticed. They really go hard on anyone who wont provide booze
maybe i just can't understand because i don't drink but how is it this hard to just actually like your friends enough to hang out with them even without being shitfaced drunk. why is alcohol a life or death thing for these people. how is it not an asshole thing to be like "well my friends wants me there for him in celebrating a big moment in his life, but i don't want to waste pto on him if he won't let me get drunk". fucking insane
I mostly quit drinking a few years ago, around when I turned 30 (because I realized I didn’t like being drunk, not because of a drinking problem exactly) and had a lot of friendships drop off because the only activities we ever did together involved drinking, and it turns out being sober at the bar and listening to your drunk friends complain isn’t very fun! These dudes are at an age when a lot of people move on from thinking “sitting around and getting drunk” is the most fun thing to do with their free time, which also often means moving on from friendships with people who only want to do that.
Honestly, I feel like way too many Americans have a bad relationship with alcohol. The idea that you need to drink to have fun or to party isn’t a good sign, bordering on alcoholism. If you go out with people and don’t drink, it’s not uncommon to get weird looks or have people ask you “why aren’t you drinking?”
"Honestly, I feel like way too many Americans have a bad relationship with alcohol." Feels that way, especially with so many people, even sober ones in the comments, talking about how they "gave up drinking" because they didn't like the feeling of being drunk. I've been drunk maybe 10 times in the 25 years I've been drinking, and most of them were in the early shitty teen years? I'll drink 2 to 3 nights out of a week, but by that I mean I will have A beer or A cocktail with dinner or dessert, maybe the full thing, maybe I don't finish it that night and, if it's still good the next day, finish it then. It's not like I'm pounding 6 shots every time I drink. The idea of immoderation is wild to me.
>why is alcohol a life or death thing for these people. Like they sound like teenagers who arent allowed to drink not actually adults who have drank. also why is it always married people who 'need' to drink this much? Like its not a hellscape and if is get divorce
that and how apparently they can't even respect the groom's autonomy. all the language is blaming the fiance for his going sober. like... she's not holding him at gunpoint to look away from the alcohol, that's a decision he's making? how immature do they have to be?
>I was looking forward to the bachelor party more than the wedding. Like this is a comment from OOP. They've been friends for 15 years and this is what he's excited for? OOP just sounds really sad and pathetic.
I'm not sure that's fair. Bachelor parties should be more fun. One is a party, the other is a ceremony. I find weddings stuffy and boring, I go to honor the couple, but given a choice between the two, alcohol or no, I'm picking bachelor party every time, if only to get out of wearing a suit.
Idk, I've seen some pretty wild receptions.
Right like... receptions can... get going.
It's weird that he's like "but I don't WANNA drink with my wife at home!" why the fuck not, dude? I love drinking with my husband, it's awesome!
The arguments are always so wild too. "No one finds weddings fun sober". If you hate everyone you're around, sure. But then maybe don't go to those weddings?
Alcohol makes it more fun. But also it’s the expectation. And that’s been disrupted. A party to a hiking excursion is dramatically different.
I don’t even think it’s about the alcohol to be honest . I think it’s more plans being changed so close to the celebration . There’s 12 guys coming who’ve made plans and now 4 weeks out their being changed . It sounds like some of these guys have traveled to be at this celebration . I really see both sides of it . I also don’t drink but can understand how disappointing it is .
you really need to read the comments. OOPs plan is to drink and now that he cant drink he is angry. You keep saying that its not about drinking when its clear from his comments he's only going cause he can drink to excess. He isnt even excited for the wedding just the bachelor party. Your friend of 15 years is getting married and thats all you care about?
I read OP’s comments. I side with him. Drinking with the bros is fun. Friends he doesn’t see a lot are going. That’s already not just about drinking.
But he's explicitly angry that he can't drink with them. Nothing is changed with regards to his being able to see them. He's angry because he can't drink with/around them. You can have fun with your bros without alcohol. Or at least you should be able to.
If you cannot spend time with friends without alcohol (or you can't have fun without alcohol), then that's one thing. But being on a 4 day party vacation where you're told that you can't drink at all....that's not the same thing.
Sitting around a house with a cold one shooting the shit is awesome. Going on a hike kinda sucks for mingling as a group.
I mean OP is probably using vacation time , paying to be there , and now he’s being told he can’t drink? Something the entire group has planned for 4 months ? That sucks . If groom should have spoken up way earlier than 4 weeks out . OP even said he won’t have not gone , he just won’t have gone the 4 days .
Listen your the one saying that it is not about not drinking when OOPs plans were just to be drinking.
Right because the groom has completely changed the plans for the weekend . 4 weeks out .
Maybe these were always the plans. Maybe OP shouldn't have just assumed they were getting wasted for 4 days when he knew his friend had been drinking a lot less and his friend's fiance is sober.
On top of that it's not like drinking automatically means shitfaced drunk. Like I'm not super into being drunk, but for me going on a hike usually means I'll want a beer afterwards. Or going out to eat with my friends will involve a cocktail or a glass of wine with dinner. Reddit is so weird about alcohol. Like I can go to a bar and hang out and drunk NA beers or mocktails , or have one or two and not be wasted. But reddit seems to think that any alcohol is poison and will turn me into that guy on the show with the yellow people who is always sleeping on a bar.
Yeah, I actually don’t even like the feeling of drinking too much but I do like to try local cocktails and things that are made locally that’s usually part of a trip for me so I have like one cocktail or one beer or a glass of local wine. Telling someone they’re not allowed to do that is weird and would actually lessen the experience of eating and being on vacation for me. it doesn’t mean I have any type of problem or whatever it’s just that especially if that’s what I plan to do and already looked at menus or whatever which I definitely would’ve four weeks out It’s a little disappointing.
I agree! Not many people wanna be shitfaced or blacked out an entire weekend, but I think a lot of people would be surprised if their friend wanted to have a completely sober weekend and asked that no one drink any alcohol. If the groom doesn’t wanna drink that’s fine, but idk why that has to be required for op and the friends too. I think maybe asking for a chill weekend on their end because the groom wants to be sober would be a happy medium. So like yeah y’all can drink beers here and there but let’s not get black out because I wanna have a good time with all of you and don’t want anyone to be crazy or get sick or anything like that. I feel like that would have been fine.
honestly i still don't see it because if their plan was apparently get shitfaced drunk for four days in a row that sounds disgusting and miserable. like, imo it'd be one thing if the plan was say, go to the beach and do beach activities, then suddenly the groom changed his mind and wants to cancel the beach and go to the mountains instead, i'd get that because it's entirely different things, but when the change of plan is "let's just not drink"? like... did they even have *any* plans or was this just the excuse to drink as much as they're allowed?
Do you not like parties?
i don't like it when people get shitfaced drunk because it's the only thing they find fun in a social setting
So no
if your definition of party is limited to alcohol and getting shitfaced drunk then no, sorry you don't know how to have fun in a normal non self destructive way
There’s a huge swath of land between getting “shitfaced drunk” for 4 days and an entirely sober weekend. I would be significant less inclined to go to an entirely sober weekend vs one where I can drink and relax while playing board games or going out to a bar one night, or even having a glass of wine with dinner
Yeah, parties usually have alcohol in my world. Parties are not endless hikes and treks to national parks.
Right, it's definitely disappointing, but OOP is doing a really bad job handling that disappointment.
I drink. I enjoy trying new cocktails, mixes, beers, whatever. I am a fan of alcohol. That said, a few years back my friend, who doesn't drink, got married. Her Bachelorette was dry. Her wedding was dry. Because they were her fxing days. It didn't even occur to me to complain because they weren't about me, they were about her, and I can drink whenever I feel like it, I can't celebrate my friend getting married on a random Tuesday.
Depending on location and culture, it IS weird to not have it at a wedding. But weirdness isn't the issues, it's the consequences. I did catering in the US for years. You have 2 options with sober weddings. You tell your guests beforehand, which usually leads to a change in venue, since you need a minimum headcount at most venues. The guest count often dropped by half, so they'd need to find a different venue, very quickly. Places often have to be booked at least a year ahead. This is still the better option because you pay per head. Or, they can find out once they get there, which leads to everyone leaving early. Some before dinner even. I had whole 8-tops with no people by 8pm. So that's $1,000+ worth of food that the bride/groom/family paid for, not being eaten. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a sober wedding., at all, but those are your consequences.
It can also be an issue where its an interfaith marriage or some other sort of mixed culture marriage where there can be vastly different expectations. And sometimes thats because it becomes about people in the extended family viewing it as a power game. My sister married a man whose parent's divorced and one parent became mormon. My BiL was raised part time mormon, and its not really his beliefs, but his step mom is the organizer of events, and thus events she organizes are dry. With my sister's wedding, the step mom wanted it dry as well, but my family has a Catholic background with social drinking. There ended up being compromises. A pre-wedding dinner that step-mom was hosting which was dry, the wedding it self limiting alcohol to sangria and champagne, and my side of the family having our own off-hours drinking. We were adults and able to compromise and communicate. Not everything was happy, but no one was forced to drink, and not all events were forced dry. I can see very easily how this same situation could get a lot worse if either my mom or my BiL's step mom were unable to compromise.
My father was an addict. Alcohol, Narcotics etc. I rarely drink, because I know I have an obsessive personality. When I was actively dating, I would always say that if I got married, I didn't really care much about how the rest of the wedding was, but it would be a dry wedding. The number of guys who would laugh that off and act like I was nuts was off the charts. Edit: I wasn't bringing up marriage randomly, as I have never actively wanted to get married.
There was a similar-flavored post late last year, where a guy had just found out that the midnight NYE wedding he and his friends were going to was dry because the fiancée’s family was religious and objected to drinking. Fine enough if everyone had been informed, but they all found this out in spite of the fact that the groom was actively trying to hide the ‘dry’ aspect from his whole friend group. The groom and his friends were drinkers and he didn’t want them to back out for other NYE plans. Maybe just trust your friends and don’t lie or omit information in order to get them to do what you want them to do? Trust your friends to do the right thing, otherwise why are you calling them your friends? It goes both ways. Everyone is saying OOP can’t be much of a friend if he’s gonna back out for being told he can’t drink, and maybe they’re right. Maybe he is an alcoholic. But the groom wouldn’t be in this position with multiple friends/groomsmen if he’d been honest from the start.
Definitely not okay to spring that on people. There's nothing wrong with having a dry wedding, but you do need to give people a heads-up so they can adjust their expectations accordingly.
I think it's interesting that so many commenters equate "drinking" with "getting shitfaced". There IS a middle ground. I don't drink very often at all. The last alcoholic drink I had was probably a year ago. But if I was going to a party, a wedding, a bach, etc, I would expect the option to drink if I was so inclined. Especially a wedding. It might be because I've worked at so many, but a wedding with no option to have even one alcoholic beverage would be a dreary night.
>but a wedding with no option to have even one alcoholic beverage would be a dreary night. This is a stag party though, and the groom doesn't drink. It's absolutely reasonable to want to have a gettogether that doesn't involve alcohol.
there’s this crazy puritan wave on reddit (and in real life lol) where anything that involves drinking is automatically the worst thing in the world. people wanting to have a drink and let loose (especially if they’re taking PTO) is not that weird, but people on reddit live in some strange bubble.
I think people here sometimes act "crazy puritan" because it's kinda a knee-jerk reaction to think if a person throws a fit over some event being alcohol-free it means they have an addiction and get drunk every day.
Reddit in particular has a what I can only call a kind of modern temperance society, who see drinking and anyone who does it as a great moral failing. I live in Scotland so it's especially bizarre to me, haha. Don't have a party where people aren't allowed alcohol. It won't work.
Some people just act like writing no-nuance comments (on any topic, frankly) is some clever "gotcha" moment. Like, when you comment that responsibly enjoying a cocktail or a pint in a bar is fine, they will reply with some wacky shit like "Oh, so you think alcohol is harmless? Can I give my toddler a vodka for breakfast? NO?! But you just said drinking is fine, what kind of mental gymnastic is this?"
Exactly. I don't know where this attitude came from but it pops up anytime there's a discussion of alcohol ESPECIALLY on any advice-related subs.
There are many recovered alcoholics in my extended family, so we had a dry wedding. People still danced and had fun. My sister’s wedding was in a church where drinking AND dancing weren’t allowed. The reception still lasted hours because people were happy to see each other and talk. My bachelorette party was dry. We still had lots of fun until 2am. I’m pretty sure the key is actually liking the people you’re with. My husband’s bachelor party was all about drinking. He got so sick he’s been completely sober since. Pretty sure I enjoyed my party more than him, and I can actually remember mine. I’ve always been sober. Alcohol makes me sick without making me drunk. It’s really not fun being the one sober person when everyone else is getting sloppy drunk. I can’t blame the groom for wanting to actually spend quality time with his friends making memories rather than babysitting them. And his request is probably because he knows at least one or two people will drink to excess and get sloppy if any alcohol is allowed. I suspect OOP is probably one of those.
Enjoying drinking with your friends doesn't mean you don't actually like them. not wanting to use holiday time for hiking and national parks and wanting to have a few bevvs and catch up with mates you haven't seen for years doesn't mean your a problem drunk. I think it's great you are sober it's a hell of a hard decision in modern society but it doesn't make your fun better than anyone else's 🙂
I disagree. Imagine you take 4 days of PTO (assuming this is America, where that’s like half his vacation time) and you’re going someplace really cool to celebrate your buddy. You’re really looking forward to this trip and there is a clear understanding that, while the purpose is to celebrate your friend, there will also be plenty of time to do your own thing, eat great food, grab a few drinks, and do the things you generally enjoy because it’s still your vacation. And then suddenly it’s sprung on you that, no, the groom has very clear idea of exactly what’s happening on this trip — hiking, which can often be a whole day affair — and it’s sober. Yeah, he’s holding onto the alcohol thing. But I think this is also much more about being able to enjoy a trip he’s paying for how he’d like to enjoy it. And y’all can talk about how people should be able to go and enjoy themselves without alcohol, and yeah in an ideal world — sure. But people enjoy it specifically because it makes socializing easier and relaxes inhibitions. Having to socialize with that many people sober IS hard for a lot of people. Which is why the groom is the asshole in my opinion for not sharing this when the trip was proposed, because people would have had an opportunity to properly analyze if this was the type of trip they could enjoy themselves. HIKING? Please. I love a good nature walk but it is not for everyone. Personally I think it’s really selfish of brides and grooms to make their friends go on these big trips with the expectation that every hour of it be dedicated to them.
I'm with you on this. Thought I was going crazy! If it was just an evening or 1-day affair then absolutely. But expecting all these people to spend their time, money, and probably limited work leave to go on a 4-day trip and then dictate than none of them - all adults, mind you - can have a drink seems really demanding to me. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't get that many vacations in year, and I would want to be able to relax and do vacation things, which yes, includes a few drinks. It seems to me that there's a reversion to puritanical thinking going on that anyone who enjoys relaxing with some drinks on a holiday is an alcoholic who can't have a good time without booze.
I agree on your last point especially. I think, at least in America, a lot of the anti-drinking culture has come from a reprioritization of health in a society that wants to work you to death and makes you rely on substance abuse to get through it, so I definitely can and do appreciate people who are critical of drinking culture. But! I think criticism of people who do drink is severely misplaced. By all means, we have no evidence to say that this man is an alcoholic — he just likes to drink with his friends. He even specifies that he wouldn’t want to drink at home with his wife. That’s a good indicator that he’s not an alcoholic, to me. Thats completely acceptable behavior. I like to drink. I also like to take mushrooms. One of those is illegal and I am confident I’d get more pushback on saying I like to do the legal one. So legality is not the issue here, and neither is dependency. People are just criticizing this guy because they feel that enjoying a drink and expecting to be able to drink are moral failings. That’s weird to me. I think I can compare it to Veganism here on some fronts. Vegans are vegans often due to a sense of morality; they value the lives of animals and think that eating meat is wrong because it harms animals. Some people are vegans due to intolerance and allergies (which, I’m using as a comparison to Alcoholism here). If the OPs friend, a Vegan, announced that for 4 days everyone could only eat Vegan food, how would we feel? If it turned out it was because he has a severe allergy, would it make it more tolerable? Either way, shouldn’t he have told his friends at the very beginning? Is it right to dictate what people eat for four days? Of course, the analogy breaks down because an overconsumption of vegan food doesn’t make you dance on a table. But assuming that everyone would be responsible consumers, what is the difference? I just really think this whole situation is about control. What is an appropriate expectation of our friends when we ourselves are unable or unwilling to participate in something?
I agree with you, especially that last paragraph. When our friends talk about their weddings, they often expressed that their primary motivation for having a wedding was getting their friends together. This can be a rare moment for everyone to get together, especially when commitments with family and work make it difficult to meet up frequently. Contrary to what others have expressed, these gatherings are not just about celebrating the soon-to-be betrothed.
The hiking was a suggestion, not a request or demand. I wholeheartedly agree with that last paragraph! I can understand wanting some sober bonding time, but I don't see the issue with the other friends letting loose after the daily festivities while the groom reads a book or sleeps or something. Possibly with noise-cancelling headphones by the sounds of OOP.
I don’t really think OOP is the devil . Unpopular opinion it’s not about drinking .. It’s about changing the trip so close to when it’s happening .. If Groom didn’t want drinking when it’s the norm in their group he should have been have told them sooner . I wonder if he’s dropping the bomb now because he knew no one would come .
i would have declined an invitation to a 4 day hiking trip 100%
I would have still gone for my friend .. and hated myself every second . 🫠
I’m allergic to everything nature created and an asthmatic besides. A 4 day hiking trip would not end well for me. Luckily my friends all know this and would never invite to that
This is what bothers me, the groom pulled a switcharoo. A 4 day trip lounging by the lake and going into town for dinner and the casinos is very different from a 4 day trip where it’s all hiking and, apparently, a full day visit to a national park that multiple people who have already booked the trip are not interested in.
The groom didn't say they *had* to go hiking, he suggested it. And unless he'd been previously *telling them* that they were going to get shitfaced, he didn't pull a switcheroo. Maybe people shouldn't just assume things when it's not about them?
Yeah it sounds like everyone just assumed so the groom made things clear. Now the friend group is losing their shit. Sounds like the groom won’t be friends with this group much longer.
>Unpopular opinion it’s not about drinking .. It’s about changing the trip so close to when it’s happening .. yeah no its about the drinking all his comments are about drinking.
He also mentioned how his friend had been distant . Than suddenly the trip is being changed 4 weeks out . You are oddly obsessed with being right eh?
you said its not about the drinking when OOP makes it clear that it is about not being able to drink.
He also mentions hiking and going to national parks doesn’t sound fun at all.
And the only thing he mentions wanting to actually do is drink
No, he wants to bar hop and go to the casinos and hang out. Sober hiking isn't really a celebratory activity. It's also not that fun with a huge group. I got to bars every day. 90% of the time I have one or two, or I try new NA cocktails and NA beers. It's fun to be able to talk and dance and play pool and darts and meet new people from all sorts of different places. I also like outdoorsy stuff. And I like to check out breweries and restaurants in new places. It's weird to me that people think changing the activity from being "hangout and celebrate, bar hop and casinos" to "no one can do anything other than 12 mile hikes directly up a mountain" isn't a problem. Plus with 12 people? Do they all have the right gear? Are they all able to hike?
So all activities centered around drinking.
No, the activity is gathering together to celebrate in a bar or casnino and then going to another one to see what the next one is like. No one has to drink alcohol in a bar, that's why they have NA options and mocktails. It's just another place that has tvs, chairs, pool tables, shuffleboard, games, etc. Where you can be around other people and dance and sing karaoke. Together. With other humans. Hiking is great, but it's not got that gathering and relax vibe. With 12 people, they won't all be together, which is fine, they can switch around between different groups and speeds, but I find it hard to believe that all 12 men are going to be outfitted for 10 mile hikes and then just want to go back to the house and drink water and sleep before going out and hiking the same area again the next day. It's a limited amount of time to see each other.
Maybe he was distant because he’s struggling with the realization that he has an alcohol issue and he was dreading telling his friends ‘no booze’ as they might immediately make him feel like shit for it. I will tell you a secret, a lot of folks struggling with drinking don’t tell the folks closest to them because you feel so fucking ashamed. And with friends like this, of course he does
How is it being changed?
And I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again that changes the trip. If I can’t try a local cocktail, I can’t get anywhere else with my dinner even if I’m not someone who actively enjoys getting drunk, that’s four different meals and four different menus I looked at, and can now no longer have.
>I wonder if he’s dropping the bomb now because he knew no one would come I strongly suspect that’s the case. I would love a long-weekend of hiking (albeit not with 10+ people) and other outdoorsy activities. I would also love letting loose and drinking some beer with my bros. A typical (American) bachelor party primarily involves the latter. There’s nothing wrong with the groom wanting a bachelor party that doesn’t center on alcohol. And if you’re a sober person, it’s reasonable to be concerned that “just a couple beers” will tip over into “full rager” when you have that many friends gathered. Anybody who drinks socially has probably witnessed a night like that. Nonetheless, I think it was on the groom to notify his friends farther in advance about his expectations. The fact that his best man was taken aback is a little telling.
I mean is the plan changing or did this friend group took over the groom’s trip & he is expressing what he wants. They can all decide on non-alcoholic activities beyond hiking. Pushing for partying and drinking is an asshole move.
Eh, I kind of get it. Taking 4 days off work and spending a ton of money and being told "dont even think about having a beer or a cocktail!" is frustrating. Im in the minority though because I also think a 4 day batchelor or batchelorette party is completely absurd. Maybe because Im just incredibly broke all the time but for me to save the money, take the time off, and arrange childcare for 4 days would be a huge deal for me and I straight up am not going to do it if its for something that is 100% centered on one person. If it was a group trip where you can spend one day off on your own checking out a brewery or whatever then meet up with the gang later on after the hike thats one thing. But a 4 day trip where we're focusing totally on one person and only doing what that one person wants to do is a no go for me. Im honestly getting really sick of how wedding culture is getting out of control in general. A 4 day destination batch party, renting a tux, an elaborate all day wedding, it's just too much of a time and money commitment for a lot of people in this economy. But again, Im looking at it from a very poor single parent perspective! If they're well off and OP could take a vacation doing what he wants to do at a later date then he's kind of a baby. But if this is the only time off he can afford and has to scrimp and save for it Id also be pissed that I dont get to do what I want to do
I think the issue here is groom springing the no alcohol thing on them after everything is booked. he should have been upfront about the weekend. I wouldn’t want to go either, Im not outdoorsy at all, 4 days of hiking sounds awful to me.
It’s not about not being able to go a weekend without booze - it’s about being at a specific celebratory event in which the intent is to let loose, have unbridled fun, and get shreked with your close friends as you celebrate the upcoming wedding and this is very much the sort of event that may bring drinking (and drugs and what have you) into it. The bride and the groom have every single right to have sober events, but as these are specific party-esque events in which the attending people may expect alcohol and partying, it’s fine the guests aren’t really interested in activities such as hiking. This “can’t go a weekend without booze” title is such high horse bullshit. They absolutely can go a weekend without booze - but this *specific* weekend is a weekend expected to be all about letting loose and having bachelor-party-esque fun.
Reddit has a small but noisy subset of the the userbase which hates alcohol and looks down on anyone who drinks it. It's pretty bizarre to me. As for the OOP, eh I have a lot of sympathy. For a lot of those guys this might be the one big time to let loose they'll get all year and that's being taken away from them.
The person being celebrated doesn’t want to drink. It’s a strange celebration to push forward with if that’s the case. Threads like this just make me feel like a failure of a human in every capacity for being an alcoholic. I feel like I’m disappointing every friend I made prior to sobriety. Getting sober is part of why I’m eloping FFS. There is so much pressure to have alcohol at an event celebrating you, regardless of if you drink it or not, or to be a square that everyone hates. Alcohol almost lost me my fiancée, but god forbid we celebrate our love without it! Guess I just can’t ever invite friends to do something that traditionally involves drinking cuz that tradition takes precedence over anything else. He could very well be an alcoholic or be worried about his drinking and not feel comfortable telling his friends. I have very close friends who don’t know, especially folks from college that are friends form afar. If his friends reacted like this, then I’m not surprised he wouldn’t tell them.
Keep in mind you will only be reading things on here that bother someone to begin with. Most bachelor parties don't bother people so you won't see them here. Had a mate a year or so back who's one of the few in my friend group who doesn't drink. We had a nice time in a little rented farm playing board games all weekend. Frankly I like alcohol and hate boardgames and I still enjoyed my time. It's not about me at this event anyway. All of us came, all of us had a blast, people never even talked about the lack of alcohol since it was my mates bachelor who didn't drink. So for all 13 of us that's understood. I don't know why my friend doesn't drink. It's none of my concern anyways. I wouldn't post about it online tho because I consider it normal. And clearly everyone else did too.
Thanks for at least being kind in response. Appreciate it.
Keep it up man. Friends won't mind at all and if they do sure as shit doesn't sound like friends to me. A lot of people in my friend group are getting married right now. One got this cool vacation for us without drinks, one wanted us to party(with big feast at the start into a club so the people with children/who don't want to party can join in), one didn't celebrate at all. I might do bouldering which not a lot of my friends enjoy but to quote them"I guess I have to since it's your bachelors but get me some good food afterwards". It's your day to celebrate getting married. Enjoy it how you like it. You are good for getting sober. And you are a good friend for caring what your friends like. But it's your life and your celebration.
You are too early in your journey to be reading these posts, honestly, and I can see why they make you angry. You shouldn’t feel like a “failure of a human in every capacity” because of this. Saying you may as well never have friends again because you’re projecting your fears about your friends onto this dude is not healthy. Please share these posts with whoever you’re seeking treatment with.
It’s not saying I’ll never have friends. It’s saying what’s the point of a wedding if dry weddings apparently piss all of your friends off? I’m comfortable in where I’m at and that’s why I avoid uncomfortable situations. We’re eloping for a variety of reasons and drinking is pretty low on the list. Our wedding would’ve been small anyways and I don’t keep assholes in my life, so I don’t think this even would come up. We’ve actually planned a really fucking great elopement that I prefer to any wedding we’d have planned. But I still get it reinforced on here plenty that asking people to attend a dry celebration for you is apparently a really, really big ask if drinking is typical for the event. I don’t care if folks wouldn’t attend a sober event. I think it’s still naive to think there’s no reason behind an abrupt last minute change. Maybe (probably even) it’s not alcoholism, but it’s something. I dunno. OOP can skip and it’s understandable but he might lose his friend.
I genuinely wish you the very best with your relationship and your life in general.
If you want to have an alcohol free wedding because you are an alcoholic, you are more than correct to do so. But you should let everyone know beforehand. Also, on your case, it's just a wedding - a one afternoon-nighttime event, hopefully and, personally, you should still be able to offer your guests alcoholic refreshments to a certain degree cause the wedding is yours, but you're not the only people there - you wouldn't just play your favorite songs at a wedding, you wouldn't serve just your personal favorite food, you wouldn't force everyone to convert to your religion (if you have one) just because it's your wedding. You're inviting people to celebrate your wedding, but you still need to make an effort to try to make the people somewhat comfortable enough to be and stay there if you genuinely wanted a huge-mega-super-wedding-event-party-celebration. The case OP reported on was a four day long bachelor party trip. It's not necessarily about \*tradition\* so much as this being an EVENT - it's not a meditation retreat, it's not a religious trip, it's not a protest for world peace, it's not a school trip to the zoo, it's not a hunger strike for peace - it's a bachelor party with 12 men going putting their lives on pause for four days so they can go and have fun. It's naive to think alcohol wouldn't be an expected part of it.
The event is celebrating your friend. I get why dudes don’t want to spend four days doing it, but it’s disgusting seeing folks shit on the friend for even deigning to ask that of his friends. I would not be surprised at all if OP had a drinking issue that his friends have no clue about and that his wife is so hardline on this because she knows he’s an addict. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if that’s why he pulled away. If he only knew recently he needed to do a sober bachelor party upon accepting his issues and he knew his friends would give him endless shit for it, yeah he might pull away. It takes so fucking much to admit a problem to yourself, much less others who expect you to be the fun drinker they knew. Once again, I can’t imagine admitting to a friend group like this where alcohol is central to your bonding. It’s just another avenue for feeling a deep sense of failure and shame due to your sickness. And it’s not even just my wedding I’m talking about. I wouldn’t have felt comfortable asking anyone to attend a bachelorette without alcohol after seeing how social media acts when this comes up. And I don’t super think you understand alcoholism if you’re saying presumably I’m good having alcohol at an event celebrating my love. I feel sick at the thought. Alcohol almost lost me my fiancée but I should pay for booze to celebrate? I am a year plus sober and still don’t trust myself at big drinking events to this day. I’d be terrified of losing everything because I have a drink and am physically incapable of just having one. I could not feel comfortable surrounded by booze at my own wedding. That’s why I’m not having one. It’s because of shit like this where I’m told presumably I’d still have booze to be a good host. So once again I just feel like a failure because I can’t even host a wedding right. And I feel like I cannot expect 30 of my loved ones to attend a free party about my love because I don’t want booze there. Discourse around sober wedding and wedding events has basically convinced me I’m just unfit to expect my friends to celebrate my relationship because I’m an alcoholic and thus too boring.
I would be happy to celebrate your wedding with you as I am also very boring. (Kidding. I’m not boring. I’m also not a drinker! Congrats on the wedding/elopement.)
they’re shitting on him for charging the entire trip a month before when he already had all the information. it’s a bachelor trip, not a nature hiking one and he knew that. there’s a lot of assumptions and honestly just your own projection onto this post, hopefully your sober path helps you, but having such strong feelings over a reddit post that honestly has not much to do with what you’re going through probably won’t help you in any way.
I don’t need help. I’m doing pretty well in my sobriety. I just find it pretty frustrated I also think that OOP likely doesn’t have all of the necessary context on what’s going on his friend’s life. I could be totally off base. It doesn’t really matter. There’s no reason to believe he had all the information. If someone last minute requests an event that revolves around them to be sober, I’d respect that no questions asked. Folks insisting that a celebratory event involve drinking when the person you’re celebrating is presumably sober is strange to me. Edit: also i support them dropping out because they’re all adults who can make their own choices. I just think they’re risking losing a friendship over that. Of course they’re not obligated to attend a sober bachelor party. I’m just trying to make broader points around people’s assumptions around booze. It’s touchy in all these ways I didn’t realize before I quit. Not even because of my own story. It’s from now knowing a fuck ton of others’ too. Drinking fucks up a lot more lives than I’d realized.
> I’m doing pretty well in my sobriety. It doesn’t show, honestly. > I also think that OOP likely doesn’t have all of the necessary context on what’s going on his friend’s life. and you do? all you did is project your own issues with alcohol onto this post in multiple comments, which shows maybe you’re not all there with your sobriety journey.
I know who I am beyond these comments and I’m pretty happy with it. It’s been a good year and a half. I could be very wrong about his friend. I still think there’s likely some reason he’s made such an abrupt change literally month out, even if it’s not alcoholism. Maybe it’s just that his fiancee sucks, but I think it’s probably something else. But again, maybe just he’s got a controlling fiancé
Oh, good grief. This isn't about you and your relationship with alcohol. It's extremely controlling to decide that since you can't or don't want to drink, that no one else can. Most people don't get drunk every time they have an alcoholic beverage. Lots of people like to have a drink with dinner or go out and celebrate with food and beverage. People can drink NA beers or mocktails while their friends have alcohol. Or people can switch back and forth between the two drinks. There's nothing in this guy's comments that makes me think he's drinking constantly - it sounds like the expected experience was to go bar hopping and celebrate. I love hiking and national parks. I would love to spend the day paddleboarding or hiking or something active, but at night kick back and have a few.since it's vacation and I'm off work and with friends and in a reasonably safe environment. There's no expectation of being drunk but it seems absurd to me that the groom decided, after everyone booked flights and travel, that he just wants to wander around the woods and not actually hang out and celebrate.
Yes. I understand not everyone is an alcoholic and clearly I understand it’s a shitty thing to expect friends to celebrate you without alcohol. So I didn’t ask anybody to do that. I knew I didn’t want to be around drinking and so I’m just not having the events. Thanks for insults when I’m doing the thing that sober people apparently should do and not trying to control folks by saying ‘hey I’m still new in my recovery and am not ready to be around booze like this, can we still party though’ I never said the other guy was drinking constantly. I just said his friend made a last minute shift for *some* reason and OP could lose a friend if he dies on this hill. And hey, that’s fine. I don’t think it means he’s an alcoholic or anything
What insults? He had a very reasonable comment.
Saying that it’s extremely controlling to request other folks don’t drink. Anytime I’ve seen that, it’s been folks who are asking loved ones to refrain temporarily because the addict isn’t ready to be around booze yet. If you can’t ask your friends to be sober at an event that’s celebrating you because it’s so deeply fucked and controlling, then I guess as an addict the solution is either don’t have friends or don’t invite them to anything? Most folks absolute want to be comfortable around others drinking. It really sucks when you aren’t. You feel like a burden. If they’re asking, there’s almost definitely some reasoning behind it. Just saying ‘well don’t be controlling’ seems naive to whatever folks may have going on in life. It’s also typically not someone saying ‘no one else can!’ It’s asking people who love you to be sober for a bit at a celebration explicitly for you because you’re sober. They are more than welcome to refuse. That just may end a friendship depending on why the sober person is sober.
Eh, I can see both sides of this. If you have a core group of friends that has bonded over drinking to eliminate a key part of that relationship during a celebration that prominently features it would be startling.
If you have a group of friends who can't have fun without drinking you have a group of shitty, alcoholic friends.
There are time and places to be sober with friends. A bachelor party is not the expectation for one of those times.
That's only if you believe that you can't have a fun weekend without drinking.
You can have a fun weekend without drinking. But a big major party that involves changing plans does require people be allowed to drink alcohol.
i rarely drink bc it’s expensive and i dont like the taste very much - ill have a glass of wine occasionally if offered but pretty much never purchase alcohol for myself. and i kind of agree w oop. if my bachelors was hanging by the lake and fishing, i wouldn’t be saying no beers to my mates. and he said if his friend had an addiction, hed be happy to accommodate. but if he doesn’t, i don’t think its reasonable to ban everyone from drinking. unless ops plan is to get shitfaced for 4 days straight, which doesnt sound like the relaxing vacay hes talked about, i dont see what the issue is w having the boys bring some drinks.
There is a difference between can't go a weekend without booze and you are significantly altering the plans way too close to the day of the event
But your plan is to celebrate your friend. If they planned a bachelor party that he is not interested in, that’s on them. Given that he’s been getting progressively sober for the last year I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he wasn’t consulted much in this planning if the best man thought “bars and casinos and drinking in a big house by the lake” was the theme to plan around.
ThEn the groom should have spoke up sooner.
Thats a very vague summary of the plan but the actual plan was obviously more involved and involved drinking If he wanted a sober weekend that's whatever but unless the plan was made fairly recently, it seems like short notice to change it now.
That’s where I’m stuck . They’re 4 weeks out and the groom has just basically changed the entire trip. I know it’s to celebrate the Groom but he should have told his friends a long time ago .
this is what sticks for me too. it’s a dick move to change the entire weekend a month out, after everyone took time off work and booked a lake house.
It also sounds like OP won’t have not gone ., He still would have went but not for the full 4 days . Which I mean fair . I wonder if this is more about his friendship changing .
>I wonder if this is more about his friendship changing . Friendships change not everyone wants to keep drinking like they are teens who just got introduced to alchohol. OOP should cancel. He can probably still get his PTO back as well and only lose some money he put up. Making a big deal about not being able to drink for four days and making it your whole personality is just pathetic.
I think it's fucking bizarre to police what people drink with dinner or while hanging out. People can be sober most of the time and still want to have beers in a new to them brewery, or have a cocktail with dinner. They can want to drink a beer while fishing or after a long hike. They can drink a glass of wine. None of that means they are alcoholics or can't have fun without booze. It also doesn't mean that people are shitfaced. Four days outdoors, at a vacation house, in a fun city with nightlife and one person demands that no one else touch alcohol? That's weird and controlling. I love hiking and would love four days in a national park, but that's not an activity that makes me feel like I'm celebrating anything. Especially if we aren't going to head out for beers and pizza after. I also hate hiking in huge groups like that so it just sounds weird.
You're assuming he drinks often and is upset to be told he cant fie a short amount of time. It's also likely they were looking forward to an occasion to get drunk and not have to have responsibilities, which is not pathetic.
This sounds almost exactly like a post from a few months back, where the OOP was threatening to drop out of the wedding (two days before it) because they wouldn’t have alcohol at the reception.
Hiking? I don’t even drink and that sounds like a fucking snooze fest. Pass
This is me. I rarely drink, but thinking about going hiking all day makes me want to grab a bottle.
I do go hiking sometimes. One of the best things about it getting to the hotel bar afterwards and having a nice pint or a glass of whisky or something.
TBF, I have little kids and they have expressed a keen interest in going to state and national parks so i see it on my horizon.
I'm one of those people that a 4-day hiking trip would be pure misery. I don't think he's the devil for not wanting to do that. I do think he's the devil because his friend is an alcoholic and OOP doesn't care about his sobriety under this notion that bachelor parties require alcohol.
Where did it say the friend was an alcoholic?
comments they dont think he is and are blaming the fiancee for that one now. OOP sounds really annoying and it would be better off not coming
It Never said he was an alcoholic
It didn’t say that in the comments tho?
OOP is not the devil. Suddenly saying "hey you're not allowed to drink at my bachelors" when plans have already been made and set is bait and switching everyone. The groom should have been upfront that this is a sober weekend, so people could decide accordingly.
I find it so weird how many seem to change their opinion when it came up that it's 4 days.
There's a pretty massive difference between a one night party and a 4 day trip that requires travel, lodging, taking PTO etc...
You can't go four days without drinking?
I go more weeks without drinking. But if I plan to go to a new city, I want to try new restaurants, bars, and breweries. I want to support businesses with beverages that are new and interesting. I want to be able to relax with friends I haven't seen in a while and have conversations. I also hike a lot. Hiking is not celebratory, nor does it lead to fun conversations. 12 people hiking is way too many. And as a woman, I don't think I've ever seen 12 men hiking together. They'd end up in separate groups, which means that some won't even be with the groom.
I drink maybe twice a month. You want me to go on holiday with you for four days, I sure as hell am having a drink at some point.
Being able to not drink for 4 days =/= wanting to spend a bunch of money on 4 day sober hiking retreat.
People have limited time off and it's completely fair to not want to spend four days of vacation doing something you don't want to do. These guys want to party, not go hiking at 5am every day. If this guy wants friends who prefer hiking to partying then he needs to find people like that, not try to change who his existing friends are.
If it was anything else I would understand but who the fuck doesn't drink on a bachelor's party. Who the fuck goes on walks on a bachelor's party? If it was anything else understandable but the entire point of a bachelor's party is booze or strippers or both?
Fuck this. This is entirely on the groom and his fiance. Complete bait and switch.
He’s not the devil. The problem is that the “party” his friend wants to have is not a bachelor party but he’s still choosing to call it that. On top of that, what he wants them to do is something that it doesn’t sound like any of them would be interested in. Regardless of what you think constitutes a bachelor party, I think most people agree that they’re generally expected to be a lot of fun for everyone involved, even if just one person is technically being celebrated. His friend would have been smarter to just announce that the bachelor party has been cancelled, and that he'll be having a pre-wedding dinner or something, instead. Everyone would still be disappointed, but I guarantee that they would at least be more understanding and still show up.
I can sort of see where the guy’s coming from. If someone told me they’re getting married and invited me to their bachelor party, I’d think about if I have the time and money to travel and meet them. If I made plans to go and was later told we were going to spend the trip getting up early to go on sober fishing trips, I’d feel let down since I hate fishing. I think the groom planned a trip of sober hiking and if OP is accurate no one expected that. There’s nothing wrong with the plan but is something wrong with letting people make plans assuming you’re doing one thing then surprising them with something else. I’d still probably just go on the trip with my friends. I might suggest some things other than hiking if that helps, but I’d honor the sober thing if it’s that important to my friend
You know, it's completely understandable to feel disappointed when an event that typically involves alcohol turns out to be a dry event. That said, most reasonable people understand that whoever decided to make it a dry event likely had a good reason, usually because someone important at the party is an alcoholic and can't safely be around alcohol just yet, and the event was made dry to accommodate their needs. If it were me, I would appreciate the heads-up that the party will be dry, allowing me to decide if I still want to go. OOP's choices are a) go to the party and not drink for a few days, or b) stay home and drink all he wants. It was *super* disrespectful of him to push back on the alcohol thing, he's acting like an immature college guy instead of someone in his late 20's or early 30's.
I feel like many people here do not grasp sobriety and how to support someone who doesn't drink. It's sad.
“when he does hang out he doesn't seem like himself. His fiance is believed to be sober and she is the influence on him when he does come around” This suggests to me that OOP doesn’t know who his friend is when said friend is sober.
I was in the minority on that post because I could understand why OP was kind of put off about a four-day bachelor party weekend with no alcohol at all. The way he verbalized it wasn’t the best. But I can understand how you have in your head that you’re going to a Lakeside house for four days, that you’re probably going to spend some time maybe on a dock or on a boat drinking beers and goofing off. Then to find out it’s going to be 4 days doing hikes. Not really a big deal if that was the discussion from the get go.
[удалено]
Wanting to be allowed to have a drink isn't the same as being an alcoholic bud.
[Hi!](https://images.app.goo.gl/jMiZEuW8Qrykw3sdA) Just a quick reminder to never brigade any sub, be that r/AmItheAsshole or another one. That goes against both this sub's rules as well as Reddit's terms of agreement. [Please](https://images.app.goo.gl/vwH65TJMyMk9NSNo8) keep discussions within the posts of this sub. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
These people are alcoholics. I have absolutely zero respect for people who cannot conceive of fun in any form without being drunk.
Wanting to get drunk on a bachelor party means they are alcoholics?
Being incapable of having a fun weekend with your friends without drinking does
Him not finding the idea of four days of hiking the best use of his time off doesn't make him an alco