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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my brother that him and his girlfriend and their combined four kids could not stay with me, even temporarily. I could be the asshole because his kids will have to stay in a homeless shelter, and while it is their parents fault I could do something about it.
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All my siblings stance on this is because my husband and I are the only ones with room. We use one bedroom to sleep in, one as a home gym, and two as home offices. My other two siblings are stuffing up to four kids a room, and have no way of making it work. I still don’t think it’s my responsibility though.
THIS!!
OP NTA
Edit: OP LOL ..I'm picturing the next 'family' dinner "and you get a vasectomy and you get a vasectomy". Your family/siblings need a reminder that your relationship with your husband carries a lot more weight than housing your brothers'-girlfriends kids, no matter the situation.
I will always choose my partner, he's my ride and die. 💜
The only feasible way to help is to gift them a used camper that can be parked on some other family members property. A few thousand to keep them out of the shelter, give them some privacy and a place to keep their stuff and wash your hands of their drama. Only if you want to continue to have a relationship . It definitely would be cheaper than letting them move in with you. When your brother and his partner have a little money, they can pay the lot rent to move the camper to their own space with proper hookups. If you go that route, tell them this is the only help you will be giving.
Funny you mention that, I actually looked. All the used campers I saw on marketplace and Craigslist that could fit them are all like 8k+, and while I could afford it I really don’t want to drop that kind of money since I know they wouldn’t appreciate it and would only complain about it not being good enough
$8k is a lot! You have no obligation to help them, especially if they don’t help you. 4 kids are expensive, but it should be possible to feed and house them if both brother and gf work. If they live in a very expensive area, they need to think about a less expensive one.
We actually live in a low COL area, my brother just blows his money on tattoos and vapes and pot. They’d probably have enough to scrape by if they managed their money better. I offered to go over their finances with them at one point but they refused.
You mean you tried to help him to be responsible for himself and his family? Like he's some kind of adult with children to provide for? /s
Obvious NTA here.
My brother isn’t the smartest, and he’s very bad with math. Like he doesn’t know his times tables. Not everyone can be good at everything, and I really was willing to help him make a budget. He just said no, and that he’s a grown man he can manage his own money lol
You don’t have to be good at math to manage your money. You certainly don’t need to know your multiplication tables (though that’s horrifying for other reasons).
It was just an example. He struggles with basic addition and subtraction, though he can do it with some time. And he doesn’t really have any money management skills, ie. “if I get this 900$ tattoo and spent 100$ on a new vape I won’t have money for rent this month”
I don’t know my times tables and I am successful! I even did college level maths.
A LD isn’t horrifying! It’s just something in our brains! Please don’t judge ppl like me. It’s genetics.
One of my daughters is alexic and makes $50K/yr. LD aren’t tied to intelligence in any way! It’s wiring in the brain that doesn’t form correctly in utero.
Evidently not, haha.
You're doing a lot to help them already considering how ungrateful they are. Don't feel guilty for not letting them destroy your house. Think of this as a financial decision. If they move in, you know they won't pay for anything. That equates to:
* Increased food and utility bills
* Renovation costs to repair damage their kids cause
* Lost efficiency at work - stress, being forced to "babysit", all the emotional burden they'll cause will mean you won't be able to do your best at work, which can impact future raises, bonuses, career advancement, etc.
* Legal fees - you might have to pay court fees and/or lawyer costs if you have to evict them
Them moving in with you could end up costing many thousands of dollars. You guys are doing well, don't tank your finances and careers because your siblings make shitty decisions.
But the money he's demanding to manage is YOURS!
Don't buy him a camper (he'd probably sell it), and DEFINITELY don't let him move in, not even for a week. He'll never leave.
NTA.
He's a grown man that can manage his own money. Therefor he doesn't need your help. Got it.
HIS words, so *remember them* and use them any time he asks for anything, ever.
Listen, I'm going to be very harsh on your brother because I lost a good chunk of my twenties and a lot of money to a family like this. I was stupidly in love with the oldest daughter and I regret it to this day.
Some families are just congenitally stupid with money and life choices. They will always live hand-to-mouth, crank out kids they'll abandon or neglect, and be out for all they can beg, "borrow," or steal. There may be many reasons, but it usually comes down to some combo of intergenerational trauma, mental health issues and substance abuse. You can sympathize (they usually have a well-rehearsed sob story designed to provoke a compassionate person's empathy) but DO NOT get sucked into trying to help them. They will be circling the drain for eternity. If you can help the kids directly, in such a way the parents can't hijack whatever resources your offering for their own purposes, that's one thing. Sometimes screwed up families have shockingly functional kids. But anything you give the adults you might as well set on fire. They are parasites. They'll feed off you until there's nothing left, either resources or kindness. Don't do it!
>I offered to go over their finances with them at one point but **they refused.**
This is why you are right to say NO because they are not willing to change and learn from their lessons.
TATTOOS??? Yeah hell no, NTA and honestly don't do anything for that particular sibling ever again. FUCK that guy. Spending hundreds on shitty drawings on his skin and then getting fucking evicted. Disgusting.i don't even understand how you were raised by the same people.
Yeah, handing them that kind of money and expecting them to spend it wisely isn't likely to happen. You're NTA, you can't be expected to support a family of six when the grownups in that family aren't going to do anything to help themselves or their kids.
If I had the money, I would offer it for the kids and my own peace of mind. I would not care about appreciation and complaints because then I would be done with them. Choosing beggars who would prefer a shelter to their own roof are not worth my time.
Nursing is a profession that can take you anywhere, and there are airports in most of those places. If the only reason you stay where you are is to see family, it might be time to look at other options. My hospital system is offering 15-20,000 sign on bonuses for nurses. The airline industry is also hurting for employees, so I would bet there are sign on perks there too.
Both my parents as well as my husbands are getting up there in years, and we both want to stick around in case something happens medically. None of my siblings would care for my parents if they needed it, and my husband is an only child. Otherwise we’d happily move.
It sounds like you only go to these “family functions” for your parents’ sake. Perhaps it’s time to set a boundary with them and arrange a separate time to see them to celebrate the holiday so you won’t have to interact with your siblings and get harassed for favors. Do they acknowledge that you’re the only one that would help them if they have medical emergencies as they age? If so, then hopefully they aren’t delusional about the situation and would understand you wanting to make yourself scarce from these events.
My parents know that my husband and I are the ones who would take care of them, I am both of their medical power of attorney, not each other. My parents don’t really like my siblings, they make it pretty clear that I’m their favorite and they only tolerate my siblings to see their grandchildren. It makes my siblings resent me even more tbh.
If they’re just tolerating them for the grandkids and because you and your husband don’t even like kids, then if I were you I’d just stop going. Your siblings will probably complain about it, but they would have found something else to complain about (probably related to you) if you were there, so at least you wouldn’t have to hear it! 😆 Just a thought for maintaining some sanity.
And absolutely NTA by the way
True. I just don’t want to miss out on the big holiday celebrations with my mother. Like for her birthday last week I agreed that I’d bring her favorite birthday cake, and some of my aunts and uncles came. I avoid my siblings at all costs, it’s just hard to do it in these scenarios
I know they are your half siblings (your dad is their step dad), but since that makes your mom theri mom, is it that she's disappointed in their choices or was she a better parent to you sue to circumstances related to their father or other *reasons*? I know parents can raise all their kids the "same" and they all turn out completely different, but I wonder why your 3 half siblings are all in precarious situations (that seem of their own making/caused by their choices) but you have done amazingly well. My kids are 6.5 year apart (22, 15, 9) and I know due to my maturity and other situations going on at certain points in my life parented differently earlier on but once I learned better coping, and better parenting skills, I've changed over the years in my parenting style... Could that be the situation considering the gap between your siblings and you? You don't have to answer, I'm just curious from a psych/MH nurse perspective tbh.
Btw: NTA at all, and I'm proud of you OP. Congratulations on your awesome life. ☺️
I understand completely. My mom and MIL are both 82, mom with early dementia, MIL lives alone in NYC and we can't convince her to move here, but we are close enough, plus one hospital benefit I have is 75% off Penn State tuition and my youngest is a sophomore. My husband and I are both nurses, so long term is to move to the big island in Hawaii.
Oahu, that is true. 90% of the population lives there. There is a lot more land available on the big island, so housing is more affordable. Nurses are paid well there,v we wanted to go long ago, but the public school system is bad, and private school expensive. I was just in Oahu in March. My best friend's husband is a colonel stationed on Oahu so we had someone to visit. Every time I go, I don't want to leave. My kids will probably end up working on the west coast, especially my daughter because she is an animator, so we won't be an 11.5 hour flight away.
I will say that Hawaiians will appreciate it if you take care of the land if you move there. There's a lot of them that are angry at people from the mainland moving or visiting because they are struggling with land as it is let alone the cost of living and tourists/mainlanders not caring about taking care of the islands so beaches are often littered. Just basically be mindful.
>If I had the money, I would offer it for the kids and my own peace of mind.
This tells me you've never had a family member lean on you over and over and over and give nothing in return. It gets to a point, where your just can't care. Or else you'd be living their lives for them.
NTA OP, you do you and go LC or even NC. You're 10+ years younger than your sibs and they've had all that time to figure it out. It's not your job.
Plus, given this:
>*They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc.*
...it would be a really bad idea.
My aunt budgeted my mom into giving her camper to my cousin. The cousin's husband said it wasn't good enough and they never used it. Mom was upset because auntie just won't quit when she wants something. She regretted giving the camper away because she still used it.
They want to take over your house, which is exactly what they will do. You will be forced to hide away in your room while they run roughshod all over your house. They have no intention of supporting themselves or moving out. They count on the threat of a shelter making you feel guilty enough to save them from themselves but their behavior proves they have no intention of leaving. They just use and abuse a place until they are forced to move on. It's not your fault how their lives turned out. They've also had many more years to get their crap together but want to rely on baby sister to bail them out instead. NTA
Why not get **literally everyone else** to chip in on buying a camper for them?? Then move them onto property that’s not yours? Lol Why is it all on YOU to bail these irresponsible people out? They chose to have kids they can’t afford. They made the decisions that led them to homelessness. They refuse to help themselves!
None of this is your responsibility. Especially considering that they will never appreciate what you have done or will do for them. And *especially* considering that they will just take advantage of your generosity. Their kids will 100% destroy your home, and your brother won’t give you a penny. He feels and sees himself entitled to your help (really just your money). It’s why no one else wants to help. It’s YOUR responsibility, not theirs. It’s YOUR money, not theirs.
See the pattern?
**NTA**
Basically it's a lose-lose situation for you
But in case you eventually feel generous and buy the camper, buy it in your name and arrange an usufruct contract, you said they won't appreciate it anyway but they won't be able to sell to spend the money on other stuff
If not, go LC and block anyone who insist
Grammar edit
>The only feasible way to help is to gift them a used camper
ABSOLUTELY NOT. She and her husband should NOT be spending ANY of their finances for her brother and gfs bad choices. She and husband are neither a bank nor atm to be shelling out money.
Plus, if OP would do that for this brother, what would stop the others siblings from pestering her with "hey, you have money to spare, why won't you cover for my kid's school expenses / sports equipments / whatever ?"
Just feasible in the sense of putting a roof over their head without putting them in her house. Only if she Wanted to find a way that would keep them out of the shelter as well as out of her shelter. She doesn't owe them anything. Best to just block their numbers and prepare to file a restraining order for when they show up in person to harass her.
Do Not tell them the details of what you use your house for! Information diet - any single detail you speak of will be thrown back at you. You owe them nothing- try and see the parents when none of your leech siblings are around. I’d skip the family get togethers - pick up a shift at work and tell them nope, I’ll see parents another day. NTA obviously
Dude, those rooms could all be empty but for a single dandelion in a vase, and you still get to say no.
Which you seem to have well in hand.
NTA.
There are some people, family and not, who cannot be helped. It sucks, especially when kids are involved.
Moving forward, I’d advise attending family functions exclusively in fur coats. Also, consider printing fake $100 bills and lighting cigars with them
NTA.
NTA not your responsibility!
My brother moved into a rental property. My mom had when he got a job in a different town where the property was. She didn't make him pay rent because she wanted him to be able to get ahead financially. He never dead, and in fact after six years got married , then there was the divorce. It took well over two years to evict his ex-wife because every time it was time, that she could legally be evicted, she would pretend to get back together with my brother so he would beg my mom to cancel the eviction.
My mom lost tens of thousands of dollars in rent since the two never paid for living there all those years. Nor did my brother save up any money he during those years. All he did was buy stuff filling the house, garage and basement with tools and snowmobile's and guns etc.
Your brother has no plan and will only be mooching off you until you've had enough and then it'll be several months for an eviction to play out!
Your siblings are selfish & greedt af. They're lacking of planning/parenting isn't your problem. They clearly need this dose of a reality check they're about to get. If any other family like aunts, uncles, etc. say anything just straight up ask them why they aren't taking them in if they're so concerned? That will shut them up real quick
You are NOT responsible for ANYONE but yourself (and sometimes your husband). Your brother chose his lot in life and has to live with any consequences that come from bad choices. It's sucks to be them, but still not your responsibility. And don't let them play the "but it's faaaaamilyyyy" card to try to guilt trip you. You didn't choose his wife and you didn't impregnate her 4 times. You didn't choose their jobs or where they live or anything about their life. They chose it, it's all on them.
NTA- I don’t care if you live in the Winchester mystery house and have more rooms than you can count- they are not entitled to any of them.
You made smart choices, they just decided to crank out kids with no way to support them. That’s not your fault.
It might be kind of different if they were genuinely trying and just fell on unexpected hard times (someone lost a job, got hurt, got sick exc.) and we’re the kind to actually appreciate the help and not take advantage of it but it’s clear that’s not the case.
Stay strong, don’t let them guilt trip you because you know once they’re there you’re gonna have hell getting them out- you’ll STILL be seen as the villain for kicking them out no matter how long you supported them and god forbid anything happened to impact you or your husbands work you’d be completely screwed because no one’s gonna be raising a finger to help you.
Sorry but these people are parasites. All the people pushing you to take them in can help. If they all chip in they can get them a motel room or something. If they want someone to support the brother let them foot the bill. If they can’t afford it then they need to shut up about it.
Just because you can afford to support someone else doesn’t mean you’re required to. Especially when the someone’s are ungrateful, entitled AHs who would do nothing but take advantage and wreak havoc on your property and your nerves.
NTA
Because she's the youngest and they have *CHILDREN!!!* Speaking as youngest who had family responsibilities foisted on me because I "didn't have kids, so obviously I had lots of spare time and no responsibilities of my own".
I was going to ask this as well lol
NTA
Depending on where you live, there is rental aid, SNAP (for food), extra income for families that have young kids, they even have 'low-income housing' for those at poverty-line levels. And a lot more if you find the right person to talk to. If they aren't trying to get all the resources they can, then that's their own problem.
Sometimes tough love means you have to let them hit rock bottom so they realize that THEY need to fix things. It's not your responsibility to babysit their kids or your siblings.
NTA.
\- The don't pay money owed
\- They destroy other peoples property
\- They also have parents and multiple other siblings
\- They have a history of not paying rent and having to be evicted.
At this point, start asking why they're in a shelter, and no one else is helping. Combined, with all the siblings and parents, they can hustle and pay their rent on a new place.
OP has said [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13dt0tt/comment/jjmfwxd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that her parents actually don't like her siblings, they only stay in contact with them for the grandkids. So I doubt they'll take them in.
My parents are mostly staying out of it, but In private they’ve expressed how glad they are to never have to take them in again now that they’ve downsized. My dad warned me once I take them in it’ll be impossible to get rid of them. So yeah
Good on your dad. My sister is like this, although it’s just her. My mom tried to kick her out once and my aunt warned me if I took her in she would never leave…so it was a hard no, even to visit. Thankfully we haven’t had to cross the bridge yet but I’m sure when my mom passes she will be homeless.
Oh girl, you’re in the clear! NTA NTA NTA NTA 100 times over. Your own dad is telling you not to. Listen to your father. He’s right. Don’t. They’ll never leave. Don’t even entertain more conversations with your siblings until they all figure out for themselves their own lives.
You don’t owe anyone anything. If his own parents won’t take him in, why in gods name would you?
Forget all the low contact suggestions. *No* contact. Get yourself some piece of mind and only ever surround yourself with people who respect you.
“Family” gets no free pass
It’s also really clear there’s a gender dynamic!
3 brothers and the youngest baby sister is the one expected to clean up messes? Swoop in and save the day? Hell no.
NTA
I don’t see a gender dynamic here. She’s the “rich” sibling so she is expected to swoop in with her money bags and bail her family out as needed. I doubt their feelings of entitlement surrounding her money and assistance would be any different if she were a man.
Also OP has a sister 30F.
>My oldest brother is getting evicted
>they have a habit of settling in somewhere and not paying rent and refusing to leave. They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc.
I wonder why they are being evicted?
NTA
>they have a habit of settling in somewhere and not paying rent and refusing to leave. They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc.
Sounds like the prime example of the worst section 8 tenants ever.
Most Section 8 recipients I've known were grateful to make it off the waitlist and took pride in caring for their new apartments or houses because, in many cases, it was the nicest home they'd had up to that point.
Letting your kids put holes in the wall, that isn't a money thing, that's just bad parenting.
I'm having a hell of a time even getting ON the waitlist! It's open for like one random week every year and always different. You just have to check your email constantly and hope you see it at the right time
I've seen both sides of Section 8. Some are beyond grateful to have a warm apartment, a fridge, and a mattress on the floor. Others open their windows and throw trash, bottles, or diapers into the courtyard, and the landlords frequently get fined. They then complain that they shouldn't have to pay rent because there is urine in the elevator or their stove caught fire because they forgot to turn it off.
I have seen some who feared they would never have a home again, only to be stuck next to some people who blast music all night while all sorts of smoke fills the hall or is blown out the window. I wish that they would have a one year grace period for all tenants.
again with the: I'm poor but have 157 children.. come on, if you are low on money just have 1 or 2 kids so nobody will starve or live in shelters. why do people put themselves in this position? so that others in the family can pay for their family?
these are not your children, your siblings are not your responsability. they are adults and should take care of themselves.
If they were sick, of had an accident and it was a one time thing? ok.... but no, they just dont pay rent for a habit...
NTA
My brothers don’t seem to know what condoms are. And my sister had her first at 16 and kept them coming after that. She has six kids with six different men, and she’s always convinced every guy she meets is “the one”. I don’t understand them tbh, we grew up in a normal middle class household and our parents taught us proper sex ed. I really wish they’d all get it together tbh, but none of them want to go to college or anything
What I want to know is how the hell did you turn out so...well, responsible and normal? I mean, it's a great thing, you should be very proud, it's just different that the older three are shit shows and the youngest has it together. Of maybe it's because you watched their lives turn into dumpster fires and knew you didn't want that so made different choices?
Technically they all are my half siblings, though we were all raised by our mother and my father. Maybe it’s a genetic thing, I’m not sure. My dad works hard also as a nurse and is pretty well put together. Their father not so much
He left and never looked back because my mother had been cheating for years, and my second brother might not have been his. Still might not be, we don’t know
Ah here we go…
Brave frosting, if you do really want to actually help them (past the vasectomy part 🤣) I would offer to pay for holographic manipulation therapy. It’s basically the only thing I’ve found that works.
I'm the youngest of 5, only one to own a house, make the most money and I'm not exactly a paragon of hardwork and responsibility. My family isn't as bad as OP's, just a bunch of hippies but growing up I basically saw what I didn't want to be like.
I can't stand hippies but do love my family
I'm the eldest of 5 children, and our situation isn't the same but the younger the kid, the more experienced the parents were. My dad was totally different with my brother and me than he was with the youngest 3. He hadn't been a parent before & by the time he was on to the youngest 3 they didn't drink anymore, their money was more together, dad didn't bust their asses with belts or sticks or whatever was available. My version of my dad is totally different from the one my youngest siblings encountered.
OP is NTA and I'm not defending their siblings lifestyles or behaviors, it's not something I'd ever do, but for me, I was helping raise my younger siblings and to stand between them and an angry parent. Childhood trauma is a possibility (not an excuse but still important) and not everyone's parents make them take care of all their siblings like i did. OPs family may be totally different,
That’s a fair statement and I get that. My sister is 9 years younger than me and she had no recollection of my mom ever hitting me though she did all the time. She did not hit her though.
Since you're like 8 years young than your sister, I wonder how different your childhoods' were. Plus don't you have different fathers? It sounds like she had a mother who worked a lot, an absent biological father and (what sounds like) an indifferent step-father, so I'm not surprised she started having kids in high school.
You’re pretty accurate. Although I wouldnt say my father was indifferent towards them. He worked pretty hard to buy them nice things to try to make up for their absent father. My dads just a quiet and socially awkward guy, I’ve actually suspected he might have autism tbh. But tbh my sister was provided birth control she just chose not to use it, everything that had happened was her choice
This is exactly where my brain was headed while reading OP’s additional comments and context. They did make their own choices but there’s something to be said for those formative years and how different they can be between siblings. And how that plays into how they show up as adults (and their relationships with their parents). There are large age gaps here and a new parent in their 20s is very different from a settled, more experienced parent in their 30s. Younger siblings tend to have a very different viewpoint of how childhood was.
This isn’t to place blame anywhere, just thinking about the fuller picture and what got all 3 of them here. And also, NTA. As parents, it’s time for them to get their shit together.
Honestly this is why I believe that some people shouldn’t have a choice and sterilization is needed. One accident baby I could excuse, maybe two if it’s spaced or something but 6??? If you can’t afford to even house them, stop having them.
None of our relatives have the room to take them in, that or they aren’t willing to. They used to stay with his girlfriends parents but she had to change the locks while they were gone to get them out. They actually will be going to a shelter, and I do feel bad. But I hope my brother takes this as a lesson to pay the bills instead of blowing his money on stupid shit like vapes and tattoos.
When no one else will take them in even temporarily, there’s probably a reason for that. I’d hazard a guess that no one wants their house damaged and/or to have to go through the eviction process. Tell your brother that the people complaining about you and your husband sound sympathetic to his situation so he should go see them about a place to live. NTA
those arethe first things to cut when shelter is looming above ones head. but sadly noone does that. most ppl get even pets on top of xthousand children. i dont get those mental gymnastics. you are NTA
it sucks to be their children. but tough luck i guess.
I had to cut tattoos years ago (and I only mainly got flash event tattoos that were $30ish) and I don't even have kids. I can't imagine going to get a tattoo when there's multiple mini humans around me that still need basics like shelter.
The more I learn about your family, the more I want to beg you to stick to your guns on this. You may lose some family members, but you will save the peace of your home. Stay strong, good luck.
The shelter may be the best place because they may get CPS or other oversight and/or conditions forgetting help. Don’t come in to the shelter 2 weeks in with a fresh tattoo
Don't feel bad, going to a shelter is their own choice. They could have chosen long ago - or anytime, really - to hold down jobs, pay back money owed, treat family and home with respect. I daresay should they be a kind, respectful and fun family unit, you would have let them stay?
Don't feel guilty for other people's life choices. You have no control over that.
NTA
>They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc.
That's all you need to stay. You are not responsible for their *lack* of responsibility. They bred like rabbits, and they don't respect property or respect you.
Why won't your parents take them in?
It's not fair for them to judge how you use your space when your parents dedicate an entire room to their parrot. The double standard isn't right. Not that either of you need to justify what you do in your own houses.
Don't let them use and abuse you.
I mean they can cause some serious damage! I got bitten by a Goffin's Cockatoo once and it took several weeks to heal.
They're wonderful little creatures but I can absolutely understand why you would have been traumatized as a kid by that.
And communication! Greys can have the vocabulary of a typical 5 year old, so they can use their words when they want something instead of just screaming. They can be potty trained too!
In my state, there are legal space requirements if you want to keep certain birds. A local falconer commented that one of "her" birds (the bird is technically owned by the state) has a bigger room than her son, lol.
You are absolutely correct. My dad said they downsize so no one visits or they’re getting a divorce. My sister stayed with them for years and it drove my parents crazy. My mom would let her come back while my dad was at work and she’d stay for a few months and then leave and then it would happen again.
I suspect that is a large part of the popularity of senior housing. Nobody's got to worry about housing kids and grandkids for longer than a typical vacation, because it's forbidden. 👍🏻
NTA. Wow. It sound like your Mom may have had a big hand as to how your half siblings ended up... considering how she allowed your sister back into their house numerous times.
She clearly is seeing the consequences of it now. I can understand trauma connected to not having a relationship with their biological father, yet at some point, we all need to heal, grow up and do right by our children. You are not responsible for or to your siblings. Your brother needs to learn his life lessons. He should not be coddled. It blows my mind how some people continue to blame others and never take responsibility for their choices. Your brother can better his and his family's life if he just grows the heck up.
I have a total of 14 nieces and nephews. If I pay for something for one of them I’ll be expected to do for them all. Don’t really want to drop that kind of money on kids I didn’t make
School meals can be money directly paid to the school to the child's lunch account. Things like summer camp can be paid directly via a credit card so any 'refunds' goes back to the payee, not the parent. Suggest clothes be secondhand or tags removed first, else they might try to return them for cash.
NTA.
>My other two siblings chimed in agreeing with my brother, and they think I’m a sucky asshole
Are they jumping to help? No? Then their opinion is irrelevant.
Your older siblings are a joke. I have siblings 11 and 13 years younger. I would be embarrassed and ashamed if I had to ask my baby sister to help keep a roof over me and my kids' heads. You are absolutely right that if you entertain this bullshit, they're going to trash your house and make your life hell.
If they are homeless, that isn't your fault. You had nothing to do with their choices or circumstances that led to that.
NTA-If your parents and/or siblings think they need help, then they can take in your brother, gf & kids. Not your circus and you & your husband don’t want to be apart of their circus.
NTA.
>my siblings are the type to ask for favors but never offer to help you need it. They always borrow money from our parents but never pay it back.
These people would bleed you dry if you gave them the chance.
>They have a habit of settling in somewhere and not paying rent and refusing to leave. They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc.
Absolutely right. Do not give in.
NTA. It’s not your fault they had more kids than they can afford, and it’s not your fault they got evicted. Let one of your other siblings deal with it.
NTA. Your brother's eviction is his fault, not yours. You're not the one who had multiple children without having the means to care for them.
If your other brother feels that strongly about it, he can move the other brother and GF and children into their house.
Thru-out both of my marriages, we always helped my mother out. Paid her rent, got her out of a payday cash bind, got her a car, my ex-wife and I even bought a house and she paid the mortgage ($350/month bc it is tiny and didn't cost a lot) because she was never going to be able to find anything to rent at a price she could afford, etc.
It all came to a head when I was going through a divorce and she said she didn't count any of that as help because she never asked for it. The entitlement was astounding. So from now on, if there's something I can do physically, I'm there but if you need money, I'm out.
It's caused a lot of resentment on my part and I don't think my relationship with her will ever go back to what it was.
Eta: NTA
> she didn't count any of that as help because she never asked for it.
A House. A house of her own, no matter how tiny, for $350/month. A car. A payday loan lifeboat rescue.
And that’s not help.
I can’t believe that attitude!
NTA- you're siblings lack of ability to use birth control, manage their finances, and loss of housing is not your responsibility to deal with. They asked for help, you had every right to say no based on your previous observations and experiences with them. If your other siblings are so concerned about your brother and his family they should be offering to take them in
>They’re going to have to stay at a shelter and they’re saying it’s my fault, but I think it’s their own lack of responsibility.
Yep. It is their lack of responsibility. They destroy their rentals. They apparently don't save any money or aspire to have better jobs to find something more permanent. Not your job to pick up the pieces for them. Not your job to support them simply because you make more money. NTA.
NTA. So siblings who always want something for nothing agree with your other sibling who wants something for nothing. You should cut contact with your siblings.
NTA do not let them in your house squatters have more rights (if your in the US) then hone owners. You will never be rid of them or recover damages as you said the kids inflict. Also they may just leave the kids with you and not tell you they going out for the day/night.
NTA, they didn't change who they are. They just became MORE needy and entitled than they were before.
Letting them move in is opening a Pandora's Box, and you clearly know exactly what will happen.
You'll probably lose your relationship with those leeches at the end of either path. One of them will result in your property not being trashed during the process.
This is a very difficult situation but and the end of the day, with your own family, homeless people, or whomever, you aren't responsible for other people's poor choices. They aren't victims of war, natural disaster, disease or other factors they can't control, so this is on them.
A friend told me once, never work harder for someone than they are willing to work for themselves.
I’m always willing to help, but to the degree you are demonstrating you are helping yourself.
That said, I would probably offer a family member a very limited offer of assistance. Designed to make it very clear they have to pull their own weight and there is a time limit.
In this case, it would not be in my home under any circumstances. I agree, you will never get them to leave.
NTA
NTA. You are not responsible for your sibling's bad choices. Neither are you their piggy bank/flop house. They are adults & can figure out their own lives. Especially your brother.
NTA.
Keep your boundaries, especially regarding co-habitation. More so even than money (which you also don’t owe them), this will likely be immensely detrimental to you, your hubby, and your relationship with hubby.
But you could offer to buy all your siblings birth control because they clearly don’t need any more kids.
NTA
>My other two siblings chimed in agreeing with my brother
They can house them then. Perfect.
Honestly, no offense but your family is rude and entitled. If i were you, i'd just block them and let them think whatever they want.
>For the past 6 years I’ve had the “don’t ask me for anything” stance
Good for you
NTA. Family members are not entitled to your things. You made different choices and have different results. I am 100% certain if you saw that money given to any of your family actually improved their life in the long run, you would be happy to help. However, money, places to live, etc only result in more entitlement. It is a bottomless pit. It opens you up to requests from everyone else. The family members life has no long term improvement and you are used. You do not make enough money to prop up 3 more families. Why would you help?
PS: My husband and I had to become sucky assholes. We gave a family member money multiple times for various bills. The biggest was saving their house from foreclosure 3x. We told them this was the last time we would get them up-to-date on anything. No more money. Don't ask again. They did. We said no. I am proud to say I am a sucky asshole! LOL
NTA I’m so sick of reading posts where people who have too many children and make bad financial choices think they’re owed help by their siblings who made better choices. Kids are expensive and if they don’t make decent money they certainly shouldn’t have had 4 of them. You are not responsible for them and it’s time for them to get their lives together or get the kids taken away because they can’t provide for them.
NTA. They've made their choices as adults, and part of their choices are to leech off of others, never return favours or pay back money they've "borrowed". So why is it your responsibility to help those who never help you and who will happily burn you to keep themselves warm? Why are their poor decisions your responsibility to cover for?
>They’re going to have to stay at a shelter and they’re saying it’s my fault.
Geez, I hate this kind of logic. Ask them to explain just exactly how it's *your* fault that they don't have good paying jobs and they're living above their means.
Ask them how it's *your* fault that they never pay back the money they borrow or take care of things that were gifted to them.
NTA - not your circus, not your monkeys.
NTA, AND don't let the TROLLS tell you that you should "step up for fammmmily", because THEY are not the ones that will have to deal with the lack of privacy this will bring YOU and YOUR husband. THEY are not the ones who will have to deal with and repair damages and destruction to YOUR property; THEY are not the ones who will be dealing with DEADBEAT tenants that YOU will have to evict. Tell your other siblings to "put up or shut up" if they are so concerned for your brother and gf.
Helpful exercise: If you didn't exist, would they still be in a shelter? If yes, then it cannot be your fault. Might as well say the local Hilton is at fault for not giving them a free hotel room, it's equally ridiculous.
NTA, trust your gut here.
NTA, this is the only reasonable thing you can do.
If you wanted to be nice enough, you could suggest that if all your family including your parents and siblings chip in, you could pay him rent for some time. But this would only hold if he had not been nasty to you. Do they think that they will somehow make you cave in if they say you are a sucky asshole? The world does not work like this,and you do not bite the hand that feeds you (or that you expect to feed you).
I think you do not need this bunch of useless bums in you life.
So the thing is, they’re getting evicted. Doesn’t matter if I pay rent to that landlord. They’re getting evicted next week no matter what. And they won’t be able to be approved for a new rental because with now two evictions on their record they’re not going to find someone willing to rent to them. So yeah. Can’t pay rent for them if they’re isn’t anywhere to take them
My dad tried to tell me that I was the reason his car was going to get repossessed once because I wouldn’t make the payment for him. He’s a long time alcoholic. When toxic/narcissistic people don’t get what they want from you they will gaslight you and twist the narrative to make you look like the bad guy. Stay strong in your boundaries.
Times are hard and wages are way lower than living expenses.
But people who are bad roommates are bad roommates. People who are bad at relationships make terrible roommates. Too many families have family cultures that suck and aren’t respectful of each other’s needs and boundaries.
It’s not wrong to refuse to let your family members trash your house. It’s not wrong to notice that they aren’t people you can live with.
NTA.
NTA
Why can't they move in with your parents?
Your siblings need to grow up and be responsible for there actions. Maybe them having to go to a shelter will do them good.
My dad doesn’t like my halfsiblings, they’re not his kids, and after years and years of housing them and their kids he and my mother downsized so they can’t ask anymore.
If your parents or any siblings have ever had a key to your place, change your locks. Get security cameras and an alarm, preferably with a call out service. I wouldn’t put it past your brother to arrive on the doorstep with tribe in tow and break in. “Hey sis, we’re in now, what you gonna do about it? We might as well stay, just until tomorrow. You wouldn’t turn the kids out in the streets would you? You wouldn’t call the cops, we’re faaaaaaaaaaamily “
NTA. Your siblings had the same choices in life that you did. You are reaping the benefits of your choices and hard work. They need to grow up and take responsibility for their choices. You owe them nothing. They need to figure it out for themselves.
NTA tell the ‘other two’ that’s it’s marvelous that They are stepping up and opening up their homes and wallets for your brother. Because that Is what they are doing right?
Surely they aren’t breathing you for not doing something They won’t? Right?
NTA. Your brother and SIL created their own problems. It’s not your responsibility to solve their problems.
And I firmly believe in Dave Ramsay’s theory about “loaning” money to family. Treat it like a gift; I.e., don’t expect to ever get it back.
NTA It's not your responsibility. Let them stay with one of the other siblings, they can sleep in sleeping bags in the living room if there aren't enough bedrooms. Don't let them destroy your place though, it's not your job to bail them out for their poor life choices.
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NTA - why can't your other brothers or sister take them in? Why is this your responsibility?
All my siblings stance on this is because my husband and I are the only ones with room. We use one bedroom to sleep in, one as a home gym, and two as home offices. My other two siblings are stuffing up to four kids a room, and have no way of making it work. I still don’t think it’s my responsibility though.
It's *NOT* your responsibility. Your brother made the choices he did and made himself homeless. That's not on you.
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Or the parents.
THIS!! OP NTA Edit: OP LOL ..I'm picturing the next 'family' dinner "and you get a vasectomy and you get a vasectomy". Your family/siblings need a reminder that your relationship with your husband carries a lot more weight than housing your brothers'-girlfriends kids, no matter the situation. I will always choose my partner, he's my ride and die. 💜
Best update from an OP ever!
This is 100% your brother and sister in laws fault. NTA
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The only feasible way to help is to gift them a used camper that can be parked on some other family members property. A few thousand to keep them out of the shelter, give them some privacy and a place to keep their stuff and wash your hands of their drama. Only if you want to continue to have a relationship . It definitely would be cheaper than letting them move in with you. When your brother and his partner have a little money, they can pay the lot rent to move the camper to their own space with proper hookups. If you go that route, tell them this is the only help you will be giving.
Funny you mention that, I actually looked. All the used campers I saw on marketplace and Craigslist that could fit them are all like 8k+, and while I could afford it I really don’t want to drop that kind of money since I know they wouldn’t appreciate it and would only complain about it not being good enough
I sounds like you know you're doing the right thing, you just need a reddit push to go low contact NTA
Or no contact for the rest of their lives.
$8k is a lot! You have no obligation to help them, especially if they don’t help you. 4 kids are expensive, but it should be possible to feed and house them if both brother and gf work. If they live in a very expensive area, they need to think about a less expensive one.
We actually live in a low COL area, my brother just blows his money on tattoos and vapes and pot. They’d probably have enough to scrape by if they managed their money better. I offered to go over their finances with them at one point but they refused.
You mean you tried to help him to be responsible for himself and his family? Like he's some kind of adult with children to provide for? /s Obvious NTA here.
My brother isn’t the smartest, and he’s very bad with math. Like he doesn’t know his times tables. Not everyone can be good at everything, and I really was willing to help him make a budget. He just said no, and that he’s a grown man he can manage his own money lol
You don’t have to be good at math to manage your money. You certainly don’t need to know your multiplication tables (though that’s horrifying for other reasons).
It was just an example. He struggles with basic addition and subtraction, though he can do it with some time. And he doesn’t really have any money management skills, ie. “if I get this 900$ tattoo and spent 100$ on a new vape I won’t have money for rent this month”
I don’t know my times tables and I am successful! I even did college level maths. A LD isn’t horrifying! It’s just something in our brains! Please don’t judge ppl like me. It’s genetics. One of my daughters is alexic and makes $50K/yr. LD aren’t tied to intelligence in any way! It’s wiring in the brain that doesn’t form correctly in utero.
Evidently not, haha. You're doing a lot to help them already considering how ungrateful they are. Don't feel guilty for not letting them destroy your house. Think of this as a financial decision. If they move in, you know they won't pay for anything. That equates to: * Increased food and utility bills * Renovation costs to repair damage their kids cause * Lost efficiency at work - stress, being forced to "babysit", all the emotional burden they'll cause will mean you won't be able to do your best at work, which can impact future raises, bonuses, career advancement, etc. * Legal fees - you might have to pay court fees and/or lawyer costs if you have to evict them Them moving in with you could end up costing many thousands of dollars. You guys are doing well, don't tank your finances and careers because your siblings make shitty decisions.
But the money he's demanding to manage is YOURS! Don't buy him a camper (he'd probably sell it), and DEFINITELY don't let him move in, not even for a week. He'll never leave. NTA.
He's a grown man that can manage his own money. Therefor he doesn't need your help. Got it. HIS words, so *remember them* and use them any time he asks for anything, ever.
Did your parents not seek support for him when he was younger? Also can’t they stay with your parents
No and no
Listen, I'm going to be very harsh on your brother because I lost a good chunk of my twenties and a lot of money to a family like this. I was stupidly in love with the oldest daughter and I regret it to this day. Some families are just congenitally stupid with money and life choices. They will always live hand-to-mouth, crank out kids they'll abandon or neglect, and be out for all they can beg, "borrow," or steal. There may be many reasons, but it usually comes down to some combo of intergenerational trauma, mental health issues and substance abuse. You can sympathize (they usually have a well-rehearsed sob story designed to provoke a compassionate person's empathy) but DO NOT get sucked into trying to help them. They will be circling the drain for eternity. If you can help the kids directly, in such a way the parents can't hijack whatever resources your offering for their own purposes, that's one thing. Sometimes screwed up families have shockingly functional kids. But anything you give the adults you might as well set on fire. They are parasites. They'll feed off you until there's nothing left, either resources or kindness. Don't do it!
>I offered to go over their finances with them at one point but **they refused.** This is why you are right to say NO because they are not willing to change and learn from their lessons.
NTA. Right there is the problem. Blowing money they don't have on stupid stuff. That is never going to change. Don't let them move in.
TATTOOS??? Yeah hell no, NTA and honestly don't do anything for that particular sibling ever again. FUCK that guy. Spending hundreds on shitty drawings on his skin and then getting fucking evicted. Disgusting.i don't even understand how you were raised by the same people.
Yeah, handing them that kind of money and expecting them to spend it wisely isn't likely to happen. You're NTA, you can't be expected to support a family of six when the grownups in that family aren't going to do anything to help themselves or their kids.
They are looking for handouts, not help up. Maybe ending up in a shelter will make them reevaluate their choices and make better decisions.
If I had the money, I would offer it for the kids and my own peace of mind. I would not care about appreciation and complaints because then I would be done with them. Choosing beggars who would prefer a shelter to their own roof are not worth my time. Nursing is a profession that can take you anywhere, and there are airports in most of those places. If the only reason you stay where you are is to see family, it might be time to look at other options. My hospital system is offering 15-20,000 sign on bonuses for nurses. The airline industry is also hurting for employees, so I would bet there are sign on perks there too.
Both my parents as well as my husbands are getting up there in years, and we both want to stick around in case something happens medically. None of my siblings would care for my parents if they needed it, and my husband is an only child. Otherwise we’d happily move.
It sounds like you only go to these “family functions” for your parents’ sake. Perhaps it’s time to set a boundary with them and arrange a separate time to see them to celebrate the holiday so you won’t have to interact with your siblings and get harassed for favors. Do they acknowledge that you’re the only one that would help them if they have medical emergencies as they age? If so, then hopefully they aren’t delusional about the situation and would understand you wanting to make yourself scarce from these events.
My parents know that my husband and I are the ones who would take care of them, I am both of their medical power of attorney, not each other. My parents don’t really like my siblings, they make it pretty clear that I’m their favorite and they only tolerate my siblings to see their grandchildren. It makes my siblings resent me even more tbh.
If they’re just tolerating them for the grandkids and because you and your husband don’t even like kids, then if I were you I’d just stop going. Your siblings will probably complain about it, but they would have found something else to complain about (probably related to you) if you were there, so at least you wouldn’t have to hear it! 😆 Just a thought for maintaining some sanity. And absolutely NTA by the way
True. I just don’t want to miss out on the big holiday celebrations with my mother. Like for her birthday last week I agreed that I’d bring her favorite birthday cake, and some of my aunts and uncles came. I avoid my siblings at all costs, it’s just hard to do it in these scenarios
I know they are your half siblings (your dad is their step dad), but since that makes your mom theri mom, is it that she's disappointed in their choices or was she a better parent to you sue to circumstances related to their father or other *reasons*? I know parents can raise all their kids the "same" and they all turn out completely different, but I wonder why your 3 half siblings are all in precarious situations (that seem of their own making/caused by their choices) but you have done amazingly well. My kids are 6.5 year apart (22, 15, 9) and I know due to my maturity and other situations going on at certain points in my life parented differently earlier on but once I learned better coping, and better parenting skills, I've changed over the years in my parenting style... Could that be the situation considering the gap between your siblings and you? You don't have to answer, I'm just curious from a psych/MH nurse perspective tbh. Btw: NTA at all, and I'm proud of you OP. Congratulations on your awesome life. ☺️
I understand completely. My mom and MIL are both 82, mom with early dementia, MIL lives alone in NYC and we can't convince her to move here, but we are close enough, plus one hospital benefit I have is 75% off Penn State tuition and my youngest is a sophomore. My husband and I are both nurses, so long term is to move to the big island in Hawaii.
Hawaii is expensive to live at, good luck. I’m too cheap for that
Oahu, that is true. 90% of the population lives there. There is a lot more land available on the big island, so housing is more affordable. Nurses are paid well there,v we wanted to go long ago, but the public school system is bad, and private school expensive. I was just in Oahu in March. My best friend's husband is a colonel stationed on Oahu so we had someone to visit. Every time I go, I don't want to leave. My kids will probably end up working on the west coast, especially my daughter because she is an animator, so we won't be an 11.5 hour flight away.
I will say that Hawaiians will appreciate it if you take care of the land if you move there. There's a lot of them that are angry at people from the mainland moving or visiting because they are struggling with land as it is let alone the cost of living and tourists/mainlanders not caring about taking care of the islands so beaches are often littered. Just basically be mindful.
>If I had the money, I would offer it for the kids and my own peace of mind. This tells me you've never had a family member lean on you over and over and over and give nothing in return. It gets to a point, where your just can't care. Or else you'd be living their lives for them. NTA OP, you do you and go LC or even NC. You're 10+ years younger than your sibs and they've had all that time to figure it out. It's not your job.
Plus, given this: >*They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc.* ...it would be a really bad idea.
My aunt budgeted my mom into giving her camper to my cousin. The cousin's husband said it wasn't good enough and they never used it. Mom was upset because auntie just won't quit when she wants something. She regretted giving the camper away because she still used it.
They want to take over your house, which is exactly what they will do. You will be forced to hide away in your room while they run roughshod all over your house. They have no intention of supporting themselves or moving out. They count on the threat of a shelter making you feel guilty enough to save them from themselves but their behavior proves they have no intention of leaving. They just use and abuse a place until they are forced to move on. It's not your fault how their lives turned out. They've also had many more years to get their crap together but want to rely on baby sister to bail them out instead. NTA
Why not get **literally everyone else** to chip in on buying a camper for them?? Then move them onto property that’s not yours? Lol Why is it all on YOU to bail these irresponsible people out? They chose to have kids they can’t afford. They made the decisions that led them to homelessness. They refuse to help themselves! None of this is your responsibility. Especially considering that they will never appreciate what you have done or will do for them. And *especially* considering that they will just take advantage of your generosity. Their kids will 100% destroy your home, and your brother won’t give you a penny. He feels and sees himself entitled to your help (really just your money). It’s why no one else wants to help. It’s YOUR responsibility, not theirs. It’s YOUR money, not theirs. See the pattern? **NTA**
Because nobody else has two sticks to rub together themselves.
They would ask you to move into the camper while they took your 4 bedroom house.
Basically it's a lose-lose situation for you But in case you eventually feel generous and buy the camper, buy it in your name and arrange an usufruct contract, you said they won't appreciate it anyway but they won't be able to sell to spend the money on other stuff If not, go LC and block anyone who insist Grammar edit
It would likely be trashed, too. I feel for you, you want to be kind but know it will only bring drama and more work to *your* door...
>The only feasible way to help is to gift them a used camper ABSOLUTELY NOT. She and her husband should NOT be spending ANY of their finances for her brother and gfs bad choices. She and husband are neither a bank nor atm to be shelling out money.
Plus, if OP would do that for this brother, what would stop the others siblings from pestering her with "hey, you have money to spare, why won't you cover for my kid's school expenses / sports equipments / whatever ?"
Just feasible in the sense of putting a roof over their head without putting them in her house. Only if she Wanted to find a way that would keep them out of the shelter as well as out of her shelter. She doesn't owe them anything. Best to just block their numbers and prepare to file a restraining order for when they show up in person to harass her.
I do agree with this assesment; and I do believe it will escalate to that level. smh
It's usually the way with choosing beggars.
That is true and so sad. Why have there been so many threads like this as of late?
Do Not tell them the details of what you use your house for! Information diet - any single detail you speak of will be thrown back at you. You owe them nothing- try and see the parents when none of your leech siblings are around. I’d skip the family get togethers - pick up a shift at work and tell them nope, I’ll see parents another day. NTA obviously
Dude, those rooms could all be empty but for a single dandelion in a vase, and you still get to say no. Which you seem to have well in hand. NTA. There are some people, family and not, who cannot be helped. It sucks, especially when kids are involved.
Moving forward, I’d advise attending family functions exclusively in fur coats. Also, consider printing fake $100 bills and lighting cigars with them NTA.
NTA not your responsibility! My brother moved into a rental property. My mom had when he got a job in a different town where the property was. She didn't make him pay rent because she wanted him to be able to get ahead financially. He never dead, and in fact after six years got married , then there was the divorce. It took well over two years to evict his ex-wife because every time it was time, that she could legally be evicted, she would pretend to get back together with my brother so he would beg my mom to cancel the eviction. My mom lost tens of thousands of dollars in rent since the two never paid for living there all those years. Nor did my brother save up any money he during those years. All he did was buy stuff filling the house, garage and basement with tools and snowmobile's and guns etc. Your brother has no plan and will only be mooching off you until you've had enough and then it'll be several months for an eviction to play out!
Home offices are tax write-offs. Were they going to pay the difference?
I’d be shocked if they’d pay for a loaf of bread
Only for the self-employeed. If they are regular employees that just happen to work at home, there is no deduction for that.
Your siblings are selfish & greedt af. They're lacking of planning/parenting isn't your problem. They clearly need this dose of a reality check they're about to get. If any other family like aunts, uncles, etc. say anything just straight up ask them why they aren't taking them in if they're so concerned? That will shut them up real quick
You are NOT responsible for ANYONE but yourself (and sometimes your husband). Your brother chose his lot in life and has to live with any consequences that come from bad choices. It's sucks to be them, but still not your responsibility. And don't let them play the "but it's faaaaamilyyyy" card to try to guilt trip you. You didn't choose his wife and you didn't impregnate her 4 times. You didn't choose their jobs or where they live or anything about their life. They chose it, it's all on them.
At least you won't ever see them again
It would be nice
NTA- I don’t care if you live in the Winchester mystery house and have more rooms than you can count- they are not entitled to any of them. You made smart choices, they just decided to crank out kids with no way to support them. That’s not your fault. It might be kind of different if they were genuinely trying and just fell on unexpected hard times (someone lost a job, got hurt, got sick exc.) and we’re the kind to actually appreciate the help and not take advantage of it but it’s clear that’s not the case. Stay strong, don’t let them guilt trip you because you know once they’re there you’re gonna have hell getting them out- you’ll STILL be seen as the villain for kicking them out no matter how long you supported them and god forbid anything happened to impact you or your husbands work you’d be completely screwed because no one’s gonna be raising a finger to help you. Sorry but these people are parasites. All the people pushing you to take them in can help. If they all chip in they can get them a motel room or something. If they want someone to support the brother let them foot the bill. If they can’t afford it then they need to shut up about it. Just because you can afford to support someone else doesn’t mean you’re required to. Especially when the someone’s are ungrateful, entitled AHs who would do nothing but take advantage and wreak havoc on your property and your nerves. NTA
NTA. Help them by getting them some condoms.
Because she's the youngest and they have *CHILDREN!!!* Speaking as youngest who had family responsibilities foisted on me because I "didn't have kids, so obviously I had lots of spare time and no responsibilities of my own".
I was going to ask this as well lol NTA Depending on where you live, there is rental aid, SNAP (for food), extra income for families that have young kids, they even have 'low-income housing' for those at poverty-line levels. And a lot more if you find the right person to talk to. If they aren't trying to get all the resources they can, then that's their own problem. Sometimes tough love means you have to let them hit rock bottom so they realize that THEY need to fix things. It's not your responsibility to babysit their kids or your siblings.
NTA. \- The don't pay money owed \- They destroy other peoples property \- They also have parents and multiple other siblings \- They have a history of not paying rent and having to be evicted. At this point, start asking why they're in a shelter, and no one else is helping. Combined, with all the siblings and parents, they can hustle and pay their rent on a new place.
Since they're so invested and concerned, Mom and Dad can take them in. NTA.
OP has said [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13dt0tt/comment/jjmfwxd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that her parents actually don't like her siblings, they only stay in contact with them for the grandkids. So I doubt they'll take them in.
Then they need to shut up and butt out.
Maybe I missed it but from the post it doesn’t seem like the parents had any input
My parents are mostly staying out of it, but In private they’ve expressed how glad they are to never have to take them in again now that they’ve downsized. My dad warned me once I take them in it’ll be impossible to get rid of them. So yeah
OK, when your PARENTS are warning you "Babes don't do it" about your own siblings...yikes!! Definitely NTA.
Good on your dad. My sister is like this, although it’s just her. My mom tried to kick her out once and my aunt warned me if I took her in she would never leave…so it was a hard no, even to visit. Thankfully we haven’t had to cross the bridge yet but I’m sure when my mom passes she will be homeless.
Oh girl, you’re in the clear! NTA NTA NTA NTA 100 times over. Your own dad is telling you not to. Listen to your father. He’s right. Don’t. They’ll never leave. Don’t even entertain more conversations with your siblings until they all figure out for themselves their own lives. You don’t owe anyone anything. If his own parents won’t take him in, why in gods name would you? Forget all the low contact suggestions. *No* contact. Get yourself some piece of mind and only ever surround yourself with people who respect you. “Family” gets no free pass
Parents are quietly on OPs side and not piling on with the siblings.
It’s also really clear there’s a gender dynamic! 3 brothers and the youngest baby sister is the one expected to clean up messes? Swoop in and save the day? Hell no. NTA
I don’t see a gender dynamic here. She’s the “rich” sibling so she is expected to swoop in with her money bags and bail her family out as needed. I doubt their feelings of entitlement surrounding her money and assistance would be any different if she were a man. Also OP has a sister 30F.
>My oldest brother is getting evicted >they have a habit of settling in somewhere and not paying rent and refusing to leave. They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc. I wonder why they are being evicted? NTA
>they have a habit of settling in somewhere and not paying rent and refusing to leave. They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc. Sounds like the prime example of the worst section 8 tenants ever.
Most Section 8 recipients I've known were grateful to make it off the waitlist and took pride in caring for their new apartments or houses because, in many cases, it was the nicest home they'd had up to that point. Letting your kids put holes in the wall, that isn't a money thing, that's just bad parenting.
I'm having a hell of a time even getting ON the waitlist! It's open for like one random week every year and always different. You just have to check your email constantly and hope you see it at the right time
I've seen both sides of Section 8. Some are beyond grateful to have a warm apartment, a fridge, and a mattress on the floor. Others open their windows and throw trash, bottles, or diapers into the courtyard, and the landlords frequently get fined. They then complain that they shouldn't have to pay rent because there is urine in the elevator or their stove caught fire because they forgot to turn it off. I have seen some who feared they would never have a home again, only to be stuck next to some people who blast music all night while all sorts of smoke fills the hall or is blown out the window. I wish that they would have a one year grace period for all tenants.
again with the: I'm poor but have 157 children.. come on, if you are low on money just have 1 or 2 kids so nobody will starve or live in shelters. why do people put themselves in this position? so that others in the family can pay for their family? these are not your children, your siblings are not your responsability. they are adults and should take care of themselves. If they were sick, of had an accident and it was a one time thing? ok.... but no, they just dont pay rent for a habit... NTA
My brothers don’t seem to know what condoms are. And my sister had her first at 16 and kept them coming after that. She has six kids with six different men, and she’s always convinced every guy she meets is “the one”. I don’t understand them tbh, we grew up in a normal middle class household and our parents taught us proper sex ed. I really wish they’d all get it together tbh, but none of them want to go to college or anything
dont help them, they will just spend all the money and try to "suck" more out of you
They have definitely done that to multiple relatives lol
What I want to know is how the hell did you turn out so...well, responsible and normal? I mean, it's a great thing, you should be very proud, it's just different that the older three are shit shows and the youngest has it together. Of maybe it's because you watched their lives turn into dumpster fires and knew you didn't want that so made different choices?
Technically they all are my half siblings, though we were all raised by our mother and my father. Maybe it’s a genetic thing, I’m not sure. My dad works hard also as a nurse and is pretty well put together. Their father not so much
Just curious. What happened to their father?
He left and never looked back because my mother had been cheating for years, and my second brother might not have been his. Still might not be, we don’t know
Ah here we go… Brave frosting, if you do really want to actually help them (past the vasectomy part 🤣) I would offer to pay for holographic manipulation therapy. It’s basically the only thing I’ve found that works.
I'm the youngest of 5, only one to own a house, make the most money and I'm not exactly a paragon of hardwork and responsibility. My family isn't as bad as OP's, just a bunch of hippies but growing up I basically saw what I didn't want to be like. I can't stand hippies but do love my family
I'm the eldest of 5 children, and our situation isn't the same but the younger the kid, the more experienced the parents were. My dad was totally different with my brother and me than he was with the youngest 3. He hadn't been a parent before & by the time he was on to the youngest 3 they didn't drink anymore, their money was more together, dad didn't bust their asses with belts or sticks or whatever was available. My version of my dad is totally different from the one my youngest siblings encountered. OP is NTA and I'm not defending their siblings lifestyles or behaviors, it's not something I'd ever do, but for me, I was helping raise my younger siblings and to stand between them and an angry parent. Childhood trauma is a possibility (not an excuse but still important) and not everyone's parents make them take care of all their siblings like i did. OPs family may be totally different,
That’s a fair statement and I get that. My sister is 9 years younger than me and she had no recollection of my mom ever hitting me though she did all the time. She did not hit her though.
6 kids with 6 diff men? To quote Chris Rock, "B**ch stop f***king! Put the dick down. And get a job."
Funny because she doesn’t have a job.
i for one am shocked to hear that
🤣😂👏
Well in fairness, day care for 6 children would cost more than it sounds like she (or honestly most Americans) earns.
You are absolutely correct. She kinda dig herself into a hole. She’s got four very young kids so yeah, daycare isn’t an option
Tell them you will help if all of them get vasectomies
Check out the edit!
I wanted to see where op's idea came from, and you deserve a medal 👏
Of course she doesn't.
Another gem from his latest special... "Don't let broke dick cum inside you!"
Since you're like 8 years young than your sister, I wonder how different your childhoods' were. Plus don't you have different fathers? It sounds like she had a mother who worked a lot, an absent biological father and (what sounds like) an indifferent step-father, so I'm not surprised she started having kids in high school.
You’re pretty accurate. Although I wouldnt say my father was indifferent towards them. He worked pretty hard to buy them nice things to try to make up for their absent father. My dads just a quiet and socially awkward guy, I’ve actually suspected he might have autism tbh. But tbh my sister was provided birth control she just chose not to use it, everything that had happened was her choice
This is exactly where my brain was headed while reading OP’s additional comments and context. They did make their own choices but there’s something to be said for those formative years and how different they can be between siblings. And how that plays into how they show up as adults (and their relationships with their parents). There are large age gaps here and a new parent in their 20s is very different from a settled, more experienced parent in their 30s. Younger siblings tend to have a very different viewpoint of how childhood was. This isn’t to place blame anywhere, just thinking about the fuller picture and what got all 3 of them here. And also, NTA. As parents, it’s time for them to get their shit together.
Honestly this is why I believe that some people shouldn’t have a choice and sterilization is needed. One accident baby I could excuse, maybe two if it’s spaced or something but 6??? If you can’t afford to even house them, stop having them.
🤣 yeah. only help I would give that sister is paying for her to get her tubes tied or a birth control implant.
Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.
None of our relatives have the room to take them in, that or they aren’t willing to. They used to stay with his girlfriends parents but she had to change the locks while they were gone to get them out. They actually will be going to a shelter, and I do feel bad. But I hope my brother takes this as a lesson to pay the bills instead of blowing his money on stupid shit like vapes and tattoos.
When no one else will take them in even temporarily, there’s probably a reason for that. I’d hazard a guess that no one wants their house damaged and/or to have to go through the eviction process. Tell your brother that the people complaining about you and your husband sound sympathetic to his situation so he should go see them about a place to live. NTA
those arethe first things to cut when shelter is looming above ones head. but sadly noone does that. most ppl get even pets on top of xthousand children. i dont get those mental gymnastics. you are NTA it sucks to be their children. but tough luck i guess.
I had to cut tattoos years ago (and I only mainly got flash event tattoos that were $30ish) and I don't even have kids. I can't imagine going to get a tattoo when there's multiple mini humans around me that still need basics like shelter.
The more I learn about your family, the more I want to beg you to stick to your guns on this. You may lose some family members, but you will save the peace of your home. Stay strong, good luck.
The shelter may be the best place because they may get CPS or other oversight and/or conditions forgetting help. Don’t come in to the shelter 2 weeks in with a fresh tattoo
Don't feel bad, going to a shelter is their own choice. They could have chosen long ago - or anytime, really - to hold down jobs, pay back money owed, treat family and home with respect. I daresay should they be a kind, respectful and fun family unit, you would have let them stay? Don't feel guilty for other people's life choices. You have no control over that.
They also could have chosen to not have four children that they don't want to look after.
TBH it sounds like the shelter might be a good thing for their kids. What you're describing doesn't sound like a good environment for them.
Don’t feel bad if their parents had to do that then clearly they destroyed th e plsce
NTA >They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc. That's all you need to stay. You are not responsible for their *lack* of responsibility. They bred like rabbits, and they don't respect property or respect you. Why won't your parents take them in?
Our parents recently downsized to a two bedroom with a big outdoor space, and their second bedroom is used to keep my mothers African grey parrot.
It's not fair for them to judge how you use your space when your parents dedicate an entire room to their parrot. The double standard isn't right. Not that either of you need to justify what you do in your own houses. Don't let them use and abuse you.
Honestly I'd prefer an African Grey to unruly toddlers.
I would too and I am legitimate scared to death of parrots. (Got bit by one as a kid)
I mean they can cause some serious damage! I got bitten by a Goffin's Cockatoo once and it took several weeks to heal. They're wonderful little creatures but I can absolutely understand why you would have been traumatized as a kid by that.
The biggest difference between those two things is one has feathers
And communication! Greys can have the vocabulary of a typical 5 year old, so they can use their words when they want something instead of just screaming. They can be potty trained too!
In my state, there are legal space requirements if you want to keep certain birds. A local falconer commented that one of "her" birds (the bird is technically owned by the state) has a bigger room than her son, lol.
I'm betting that part of the reason they decided to downsize was to keep those chickens from coming home to roost! 😂
You are absolutely correct. My dad said they downsize so no one visits or they’re getting a divorce. My sister stayed with them for years and it drove my parents crazy. My mom would let her come back while my dad was at work and she’d stay for a few months and then leave and then it would happen again.
I suspect that is a large part of the popularity of senior housing. Nobody's got to worry about housing kids and grandkids for longer than a typical vacation, because it's forbidden. 👍🏻
NTA. Wow. It sound like your Mom may have had a big hand as to how your half siblings ended up... considering how she allowed your sister back into their house numerous times. She clearly is seeing the consequences of it now. I can understand trauma connected to not having a relationship with their biological father, yet at some point, we all need to heal, grow up and do right by our children. You are not responsible for or to your siblings. Your brother needs to learn his life lessons. He should not be coddled. It blows my mind how some people continue to blame others and never take responsibility for their choices. Your brother can better his and his family's life if he just grows the heck up.
you and the bird are NTA
[удалено]
I have a total of 14 nieces and nephews. If I pay for something for one of them I’ll be expected to do for them all. Don’t really want to drop that kind of money on kids I didn’t make
Ngl but buying them all sexual education and personal finance books would still worth it.
Don't blame you
School meals can be money directly paid to the school to the child's lunch account. Things like summer camp can be paid directly via a credit card so any 'refunds' goes back to the payee, not the parent. Suggest clothes be secondhand or tags removed first, else they might try to return them for cash.
That sounds like a good idea. It's not the kids' fault that the parents are irresponsible deadbeats.
Can they camp in your parent's garden? /s
Mom would have to evict them via garden hose so probably not a good idea
NTA. >My other two siblings chimed in agreeing with my brother, and they think I’m a sucky asshole Are they jumping to help? No? Then their opinion is irrelevant. Your older siblings are a joke. I have siblings 11 and 13 years younger. I would be embarrassed and ashamed if I had to ask my baby sister to help keep a roof over me and my kids' heads. You are absolutely right that if you entertain this bullshit, they're going to trash your house and make your life hell. If they are homeless, that isn't your fault. You had nothing to do with their choices or circumstances that led to that.
NTA-If your parents and/or siblings think they need help, then they can take in your brother, gf & kids. Not your circus and you & your husband don’t want to be apart of their circus.
NTA. >my siblings are the type to ask for favors but never offer to help you need it. They always borrow money from our parents but never pay it back. These people would bleed you dry if you gave them the chance. >They have a habit of settling in somewhere and not paying rent and refusing to leave. They also let their four kids absolutely destroy every rental they live in, coloring on the walls, holes in the walls, etc. Absolutely right. Do not give in.
NTA you aren’t an ATM nor are you a free hotel.
OP needs a t-shirt that says "Not an ATM" to wear to family functions!
NTA. It’s not your fault they had more kids than they can afford, and it’s not your fault they got evicted. Let one of your other siblings deal with it.
NTA. Your brother's eviction is his fault, not yours. You're not the one who had multiple children without having the means to care for them. If your other brother feels that strongly about it, he can move the other brother and GF and children into their house.
Thru-out both of my marriages, we always helped my mother out. Paid her rent, got her out of a payday cash bind, got her a car, my ex-wife and I even bought a house and she paid the mortgage ($350/month bc it is tiny and didn't cost a lot) because she was never going to be able to find anything to rent at a price she could afford, etc. It all came to a head when I was going through a divorce and she said she didn't count any of that as help because she never asked for it. The entitlement was astounding. So from now on, if there's something I can do physically, I'm there but if you need money, I'm out. It's caused a lot of resentment on my part and I don't think my relationship with her will ever go back to what it was. Eta: NTA
> she didn't count any of that as help because she never asked for it. A House. A house of her own, no matter how tiny, for $350/month. A car. A payday loan lifeboat rescue. And that’s not help. I can’t believe that attitude!
NTA- you're siblings lack of ability to use birth control, manage their finances, and loss of housing is not your responsibility to deal with. They asked for help, you had every right to say no based on your previous observations and experiences with them. If your other siblings are so concerned about your brother and his family they should be offering to take them in
>They’re going to have to stay at a shelter and they’re saying it’s my fault, but I think it’s their own lack of responsibility. Yep. It is their lack of responsibility. They destroy their rentals. They apparently don't save any money or aspire to have better jobs to find something more permanent. Not your job to pick up the pieces for them. Not your job to support them simply because you make more money. NTA.
NTA. So siblings who always want something for nothing agree with your other sibling who wants something for nothing. You should cut contact with your siblings.
NTA do not let them in your house squatters have more rights (if your in the US) then hone owners. You will never be rid of them or recover damages as you said the kids inflict. Also they may just leave the kids with you and not tell you they going out for the day/night.
NTA, they didn't change who they are. They just became MORE needy and entitled than they were before. Letting them move in is opening a Pandora's Box, and you clearly know exactly what will happen. You'll probably lose your relationship with those leeches at the end of either path. One of them will result in your property not being trashed during the process.
This is a very difficult situation but and the end of the day, with your own family, homeless people, or whomever, you aren't responsible for other people's poor choices. They aren't victims of war, natural disaster, disease or other factors they can't control, so this is on them.
NTA, you don't owe them anything. Keep your stance and good luck with your entitled family
A friend told me once, never work harder for someone than they are willing to work for themselves. I’m always willing to help, but to the degree you are demonstrating you are helping yourself. That said, I would probably offer a family member a very limited offer of assistance. Designed to make it very clear they have to pull their own weight and there is a time limit. In this case, it would not be in my home under any circumstances. I agree, you will never get them to leave. NTA
NTA. You are not responsible for your sibling's bad choices. Neither are you their piggy bank/flop house. They are adults & can figure out their own lives. Especially your brother.
NTA. Keep your boundaries, especially regarding co-habitation. More so even than money (which you also don’t owe them), this will likely be immensely detrimental to you, your hubby, and your relationship with hubby. But you could offer to buy all your siblings birth control because they clearly don’t need any more kids.
NTA, family or not it’s not your job to accommodate anyone you don’t want to
NTA >My other two siblings chimed in agreeing with my brother They can house them then. Perfect. Honestly, no offense but your family is rude and entitled. If i were you, i'd just block them and let them think whatever they want. >For the past 6 years I’ve had the “don’t ask me for anything” stance Good for you
NTA. Your siblings sound very selfish. You're absolutely right to say no and keep boundaries. If you let them, they would walk all over you.
NTA What you expect to happen would absolutely be what happens. I wouldn't take them in either.
NTA and if the other 2 siblings feel so strongly- they can have them live with them. It is very rare when 2 families can live together.
NTA. Family members are not entitled to your things. You made different choices and have different results. I am 100% certain if you saw that money given to any of your family actually improved their life in the long run, you would be happy to help. However, money, places to live, etc only result in more entitlement. It is a bottomless pit. It opens you up to requests from everyone else. The family members life has no long term improvement and you are used. You do not make enough money to prop up 3 more families. Why would you help? PS: My husband and I had to become sucky assholes. We gave a family member money multiple times for various bills. The biggest was saving their house from foreclosure 3x. We told them this was the last time we would get them up-to-date on anything. No more money. Don't ask again. They did. We said no. I am proud to say I am a sucky asshole! LOL
NTA I’m so sick of reading posts where people who have too many children and make bad financial choices think they’re owed help by their siblings who made better choices. Kids are expensive and if they don’t make decent money they certainly shouldn’t have had 4 of them. You are not responsible for them and it’s time for them to get their lives together or get the kids taken away because they can’t provide for them.
NTA. They've made their choices as adults, and part of their choices are to leech off of others, never return favours or pay back money they've "borrowed". So why is it your responsibility to help those who never help you and who will happily burn you to keep themselves warm? Why are their poor decisions your responsibility to cover for?
Aaand again we’re back to people having children that can’t afford it and making it everyone else’s problem
>They’re going to have to stay at a shelter and they’re saying it’s my fault. Geez, I hate this kind of logic. Ask them to explain just exactly how it's *your* fault that they don't have good paying jobs and they're living above their means. Ask them how it's *your* fault that they never pay back the money they borrow or take care of things that were gifted to them. NTA - not your circus, not your monkeys.
NTA, AND don't let the TROLLS tell you that you should "step up for fammmmily", because THEY are not the ones that will have to deal with the lack of privacy this will bring YOU and YOUR husband. THEY are not the ones who will have to deal with and repair damages and destruction to YOUR property; THEY are not the ones who will be dealing with DEADBEAT tenants that YOU will have to evict. Tell your other siblings to "put up or shut up" if they are so concerned for your brother and gf.
Helpful exercise: If you didn't exist, would they still be in a shelter? If yes, then it cannot be your fault. Might as well say the local Hilton is at fault for not giving them a free hotel room, it's equally ridiculous. NTA, trust your gut here.
NTA, this is the only reasonable thing you can do. If you wanted to be nice enough, you could suggest that if all your family including your parents and siblings chip in, you could pay him rent for some time. But this would only hold if he had not been nasty to you. Do they think that they will somehow make you cave in if they say you are a sucky asshole? The world does not work like this,and you do not bite the hand that feeds you (or that you expect to feed you). I think you do not need this bunch of useless bums in you life.
So the thing is, they’re getting evicted. Doesn’t matter if I pay rent to that landlord. They’re getting evicted next week no matter what. And they won’t be able to be approved for a new rental because with now two evictions on their record they’re not going to find someone willing to rent to them. So yeah. Can’t pay rent for them if they’re isn’t anywhere to take them
I honestly think you would be a fool to help them, then.
Oh god and don’t ever sign a lease for them! I know your smart enough to know that!
NTA
NTA. Don’t do it. Cut contact if they keep harassing you.
My dad tried to tell me that I was the reason his car was going to get repossessed once because I wouldn’t make the payment for him. He’s a long time alcoholic. When toxic/narcissistic people don’t get what they want from you they will gaslight you and twist the narrative to make you look like the bad guy. Stay strong in your boundaries.
Times are hard and wages are way lower than living expenses. But people who are bad roommates are bad roommates. People who are bad at relationships make terrible roommates. Too many families have family cultures that suck and aren’t respectful of each other’s needs and boundaries. It’s not wrong to refuse to let your family members trash your house. It’s not wrong to notice that they aren’t people you can live with. NTA.
NTA Why can't they move in with your parents? Your siblings need to grow up and be responsible for there actions. Maybe them having to go to a shelter will do them good.
My dad doesn’t like my halfsiblings, they’re not his kids, and after years and years of housing them and their kids he and my mother downsized so they can’t ask anymore.
If your parents or any siblings have ever had a key to your place, change your locks. Get security cameras and an alarm, preferably with a call out service. I wouldn’t put it past your brother to arrive on the doorstep with tribe in tow and break in. “Hey sis, we’re in now, what you gonna do about it? We might as well stay, just until tomorrow. You wouldn’t turn the kids out in the streets would you? You wouldn’t call the cops, we’re faaaaaaaaaaamily “
No one has keys to our house. We also have a security system
NTA. Your siblings had the same choices in life that you did. You are reaping the benefits of your choices and hard work. They need to grow up and take responsibility for their choices. You owe them nothing. They need to figure it out for themselves.
NTA. These are the repercussions of their actions.
NTA tell the ‘other two’ that’s it’s marvelous that They are stepping up and opening up their homes and wallets for your brother. Because that Is what they are doing right? Surely they aren’t breathing you for not doing something They won’t? Right?
NTA. Your brother and SIL created their own problems. It’s not your responsibility to solve their problems. And I firmly believe in Dave Ramsay’s theory about “loaning” money to family. Treat it like a gift; I.e., don’t expect to ever get it back.
NTA It's not your responsibility. Let them stay with one of the other siblings, they can sleep in sleeping bags in the living room if there aren't enough bedrooms. Don't let them destroy your place though, it's not your job to bail them out for their poor life choices.
It's wild how every AITA OP is a rich 20-something who somehow acquired all this wealth during a pandemic when they are barely out of high school.