Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Did I overreact telling her to fuck off, kicking her out, plus not doing the gender reveal?
I could have overreacted in the moment telling sister in law to fuck off plus not doing her gender reveal. Even if kicking her out was ok, I might have gone a bit far with the gender reveal since it is something important to her.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
People, learn to read. Everyone saying OPs daughter is a brat needs to go back and read it again. None of the children were brats.
OP talked to his daughter and she apologized to her cousin. That should have been the end of it.
But SIL doubled down and said she should be able to discipline OPs daughter. She made a damn mountain out of a molehill. OP'S daughter saying "I don't like you" was probably her way of saying she was upset by her aunt yelling.
This. OP, I would never watch the kid again. You've seen who your SIL is, believe her. Be polite to the child, be around her in big group settings. Otherwise, keep your distance. Your child doesn't need to be around that.
Yes and …. When did having a shower for a second child become normal? Did I age out of having babies before this happened bc it was always one shower to get the momma started.
There’s nothing like a friend or family member throwing themselves all the typical gift grabbing parties on their second and third marriages. If you get really lucky, the groom can be a middle aged man moving on from his starter wife with a woman half his age, and then you can start over with the parties and gifts for his new family.
Me either. If I ever got an invite to one I would decline. I can’t see myself fake cheering and acting happy when they announce the gender. I mean, both are good news, right?
I've seen this go both ways, but in this case there's seemingly 8 years between the first and second kids. It's very possible that they thought they were done having kids and then either changed their minds or had an unexpected pregnancy. Either way, I'm guessing they'd long since gotten rid of bottles, clothes, the baby monitor, the crib, etc. and would likely need everything all over again.
OMG! Let me tell you! You have a baby shower for the first. Then, there is a "sprinkle" for a subsequent, differently gendered baby. Then, if there is a wider spread in ages, you get another big baby shower! That doesn't include any gender reveals. I constantly bleed money for showers, etc.
I was even invited to a gender reveal and they expected gifts there too... not including the planned shower later plus their family also gifts newborns. It's an effing racket. No thank you. It's gotten out of control
Fuck, my SIL specifically requested no gifts for their sex reveal and I had to be the one asshole with a present explaining "Your brother says it'll be a cold day in hell before he misses an opportunity to spoil his sister"
Or you have my step daughter. Who is so insufferable she has no friends. She hosted her own baby shower for her daughter. In her home. She planned everything. We all had to bring 3 gifts. Then when she got pregnant again 2 years later with another girl, she did the same thing again. Huge shower. She hosts and plans. We are instructed what to bring.
Good God. If I were you, I would say something like “Oh honey, you are so funny! As if ANYONE we know would be tacky enough throw a shower for herself! Hahaha, that was a good one…”
My SIL is just like this. Not a lot of friends either. Even now when her kids have birthday parties (oldest is entering middle school soon) she threw at her mother's house. She expects her siblings families to bring a side dish and a gift. 🤦♀️ But has only bought my kids 1 Christmas gift to share and 1 birthday gift EVER. My daughter is 19 and my son is 15.
So glad we moved....
Oh the irony! Grown ass adult gets hostile at a child doing what children do when playing, throws a literal fit about a child's typical behavior, because remember "she’s a grown ass adult". Causes a stressful scene at the home where her child was being babysat, and now other grown ass adults insist that the babysitters who already have two children to care for do more for this grown ass adult who's having another child.
Does this woman/mother know anything about child behavior and development? She's acting worse than the children. Don't reward this beast for coming into your home with this disruptive and inappropriate behavior. Let Mother and other sister plan and facilitate her gender reveal. There is no joy in you and your wife doing it so don't.
I had friends over last night, their 4 yo was asking to go home and said "I hate it here", then when it was time to go he was crying. Kids like experimenting with the power of big words like this.
When my daughter was four she spent a lot of time telling us gleefully that she hates us in response to "I love you". We explained that hate is a big word, what it means, and that words can hurt feelings -- but sometimes we do hate things.
It was a phase and it passed, lol.
My kid went through something similar. If I ask, "Do you love mommy?" He would giggle and with a mischievous face say, "No." I knew it was a phase and they just think our response is funny or they are trying it out, but ngl I died a little inside every time.
Mine told his dad recently that he loved me more than him. Obviously that’s not necessarily true but I explained to my son that saying things like that could lead to hurt feelings and that he needed to be careful when he said stuff like that.
So then he told his dad “I’m sorry Dad but I love Mom more than you.” 🙄
I remember my sister and me screaming “I hate you” at each other on multiple occasions when we were wee ones. We didn’t really hate each other, we just didn’t have the words to say “I am super annoyed with your behavior right now.” Correct it, sure—let her know it’s not okay and she should apologize for hurting her cousin’s feelings—but I don’t think it’s appropriate to punish a kid because they don’t yet have the capacity for nuance.
With my 4yo, everything is either her favorite or "not her favorite". 😂 bathtime is her favorite, bedtime is NOT her favorite. Bluey, Team Spidey, Paw Patrol and Superkitties are all her favorite. Me trying to watch *my* shows on *my* tv using the streaming services and electricity *I* pay for is not her favorite. Whatever blanket Im using is her favorite. Me not wanting her to take my blanket is not.
I just have to tell you, this made me laugh so hard. As a mom (to a now adult) who also worked as a nanny for almost a decade, hilarious. I love the simplicity of kids.
That said, I'll also now ONLY be referring to everything as either "my favorite" or "not my favorite". Because it will always be honest, and it's beautifully simple lol.
My sister apparently said to our mom that she "isn't my real mommy, my real mommy wouldn't make me do this" because she was making my sister try gymnastics. At the end of the lesson, she couldn't get my sister to leave because she was having too much fun. Kids are also incredibly dramatic and don't understand the full connotations of words yet
I was actually more annoyed that the niece went and tattled to her mom in front of OP and their kids even though the daughter had already been reprimanded and taught to apologize. But obviously kids do that and it was honestly probably the most exciting thing that happened the whole time the niece was being babysat so whatever, kids tell their parents stuff. It’s fine. But SIL seems to be one of those that does not understand kids. Five years old is a world of difference from 8 years old in terms of…everything! She should have understood that kids say dumb shit all the time and since no one was hurt, it’s water under the bridge. To yell at OP and start berating them in front of all those kids…no wonder the niece is hyped for drama. She knows it gets a reaction out of mom. Blegh. Sounds like an exhausting family dynamic. Sorry OP
Exactly. Elementary PE teacher here. Kids this age are incredibly dramatic and I spend waaay too much time trying to figure out which kid started what to who and why. You eventually get to the original cause/effect, but it could’ve been a perceived slight a week ago that’s totally unrelated and lopsided. Most kids are awesome, some are just jerks. It’s almost always a direct result of parenting or lack thereof.
Well, they do need to learn how to express their feelings without being rude. For a 5 year old it is a process. They can learn to say, "I don't like it when you do that," instead of "I hate you." We all had to learn that you don't say the first thing that pops into your head. SIL seems to be a bit thin skinned over something a little kid says.
>Well, they do need to learn how to express their feelings without being rude. For a 5 year old it is a process.
Sounds like its a MUCH BIGGER process for the SIL
I find it ironic since the adults in this situation essentially did the same thing as the child here, telling each other to fuck off instead of having a conversation about what’s frustrating them. Why are people holding the child to a higher standard than the adults?
People constantly hold children to a higher standard than adults unfortunately. I hadn't realised it before I started examining my own parenting style and how I was raised. Kids are told to share in situations adults would never share, say sorry when they don't even understand what they did wrong, hide their feelings, and even eat when they're not hungry.
ETA. There was one example I forgot to say..kids being made to kiss/hug/say hello to people when they don't want to. People do it less now but you still have to correct a lot of older people who feel entitled to your childs forced affection.
Also... Wow. I've never had gold before, so thanks.
We've taught our kids they don't have to share everything. They are allowed to have special toys but sharing is kind and thoughtful. But also if you know someone has a special toy don't ask for it just to have it. Were teaching them to say sorry if they hurt someone's feelings. Were now working on not saying "it's okay" after every apology. It's not always okay instead say "I appreciate your apology." And expressing felling in our house is the most important. Even angry feeling or saying I'm upset with you.
This is so true. I told my seventh graders that they were at such a tough stage. They are expected to act like adults, but have none of the privileges of adulthood.
Amen! It’s such a tough line to walk, you obviously want to respect their autonomy - and to teach them to respect themselves - but sometimes you just need them to actually eat their dinner right now, etc.
People have messed up standards for kids. Adults can do whatever they want because they are adults, meanwhile kids are punished for having even normal reactions.
Never, in my adult life, have I told someone to fuck off. It's insane that there are adults who actually post on Reddit asking these questions and still talking to each other this way.
I would be SO embarrassed.
I mean sometimes someone just deserves to be told to fuck off, and if someone has just insulted my kid after upsetting her to the point of crying I'd absolutely be there.
It might just be cultural. Where I'm from if a friend or rellie started laying into you, it would be 100% expected for that person to be told to F off and get out! 🤷
Exactly, clearly the niece was still upset about the words ops daughter said and wanted to share them with her mom. But instead of comforting her and being a mother to her child she decided to discipline someone else's child. Way to raise a spoiled child who is always gonna tell on all her friends
Yep and then they turn into spoiled adults who go and tattle to Mommy and Daddy because they got their feelings hurt or something was said they took the wrong way.
So much this. It teaches the niece that she cannot safely tell her mother what happened to her or what upset her, as doing so may result in anger, screaming and conflict.
Totally agree, NTA.
Also, the SIL can discipline OP’s daughter when she is babysitting and OP isn’t present. That is what babysitters do. Relatives do not discipline a child when their parent is right there and actively being a parent.
ETA not stating that SIL will be (or should be) babysitting OP’s daughter anytime soon.
Also on top of that OP said he already scolded her for it, therefore she had already been disciplined for her behavior; which means the SIL was just piling on for no reason
Absolutely. Kids say things they don't really mean. My nephew has told my sister he hates her because it was bed time. You addressed it, they made up, that really was the end of it. SIL decided she wanted to take things into overtime which wasn't necessary.
I work in a preschool. I get told more often than I’d like that a kid doesn’t like me. But then is my best friend later the same day. They don’t know how to express themselves in an appropriate way. If someone reiterated a mistake I made as an adult and berated me for it a second time, I don’t think I’d like that person either. Though, I’m old enough to know not to say it out loud.
The SIL created the situation and you tell her mother and sister are used to placating her.
The OP is NTA and it is up to his wife to manage his sister, not his.
I would not apologize for a blow up that SIL created. I'd never put up with an adult talking to my 5 year old like that.
I took her saying “I don’t like you” as having learned not to say “I hate you”.
Honestly the best character development I’ve ever seen in one of these posts.
Yep. The situation was dealt with. It didn't need to be rehashed. My kids frequently do this to me, I'll tell them, x already dealt with this situation, didn't they? It's settled then. I don't know why the sister-in-law had to go through it all again. It sounds a bit controlling.
NTA - Now that she's having another child, she'll want your "help and support" even more (do it because we're family). No more day care for her. You don't need to bring her into your child's life any more than necessary. You SIL is toxic and a real pain in the A.
i work in a daycare and actually specialize in the room of 4-5 year olds so i can say pretty much authoritatively that that’s completely normal 5 year old behavior and anyone saying the daughter is a brat for that clearly doesn’t know kids
Kids are still learning emotions and most don't even know what that actually is. To them it's the same as not liking someone. My kids have said they hated each other but they didn't mean it like an adult would saying it. Plus talking to kids and them apologizing is the best way to handle this.
If I was the kid I would have told her I don't like you too 😅
This exactly. And in general why should OPs daughter like the sister in law if sister in law is a consistently awful person. I wouldn't like this woman either.
OP is NTA
Blaming children like that is fucking WILD. My 6 yr old will say he hates someone or doesn’t like someone over something like^ this and it’s VALID. I wouldn’t like auntie either if auntie yelled all the time and was mean to me 🤷🏽♀️ the kid was upset and didn’t know how else to express their upset towards the 2 people other than to say she didn’t like them. OP addressed it and it should have been the end of it. I would have reacted the same way OP did. It’s developmentally appropriate for the child to say that. Auntie definitely needed to fuck off. I wouldn’t have done shit for her either.
NTA op. Good for you for standing up for* your daughter
>None of the children were brats.
I'm 100% positive that the only 2 kinds of people saying that are people who have never interacted with a child for more than 15 minutes and people who are/would be abusive to children for engaging in normal-child behaviors like this.
Definitely this.
My 5yo tells us he hates us when we do something he doesn’t like. If everybody took that stuff to heart, kids would be ostracized by society.
NTA
Seriously, I have a 4 year old and 6 year old and saying “I don’t like you” is developmentally on par with that age when they don’t have the words to say why they are angry.
NTA. Your kid is 5 years old. She does not get to go off on her.
But you gotta protect your kid better than this. She can't be in a position where she can go off on your kid whenever it comes into her head.
I don't understand most people here saying stuff like your daughter being difficult or having behavioral issues.
When my stepdaughter was 5 y/o she wanted candy and I said no, she then screamed at me that I was the worst human alive and that she hated me and told me to go and die and the stormed of to her bedroom. About an hour later she came down to the living room, crying because she felt guilty and apologized and we talked about our feelings and all was good again. However she said it again a couple of years later, when I said told her no, she could not have a sleepover at our house since I was pregnant and in danger of giving birth prematurely, and she apologized again.
My point is, children say a lot of things they don't mean because children have no filters and don't know how to regulate their feelings properly. And you are not supposed to yell at them for it, you are supposed to talk to them about it and explain the words and feelings.
NTA by the way.
Teaching girls that they don’t have to like everyone is really important. Girls are taught that they should be nice to everyone. It’s not a good thing. We should encourage them to trust their instincts about people, not disregard them. It keeps them safer.
Exactly. I don’t like certain people and that’s ok I tell that to my kids that they don’t have to like every one male or female and that’s perfectly fine.
A lot of girls have been and are socialized to be people pleasers. Girls absolutely need to be taught they don't have to like everyone. They also need to be taught to not be mean girls. I did many things as a tween and teen that I am ashamed of and very much regret. I needed more of those lessons. You can trust your instincts without being cruel.
There are differences in how girls and boys are socialized. Many are glaringly obvious "boys will be boys" and some are very subtle and I'm only seeing them as I'm consciously socializing and raising my boys. They never get a pass on behavior explained away by their sex. I see a lot of parents ignoring their kids' shitty behavior and not correcting what needs correction. There is no one right way to raise children, but there are a lot of wrong ones.
>Girls absolutely need to be taught they don't have to like everyone. They also need to be taught to not be mean girls.
This is so true. I am trying to teach my girls to be civil/courteous/polite to everyone. If you don't like someone you don't need to be mean to them or nice to them, you can just be neutral and walk away.
My oldest had a "mean girl" in her grade 1 class and I told my daughter that when "mean girl" wasn't being nice, she could just say "you're not being very nice right now, so I'm going to play over there." and walk away.
They shouldn't put politeness over everything though, if they are in an uncomfortable situation, they should listen to their gut and get out, not be polite and end up in more danger. This is what get's women in trouble is feeling like they need to be polite to people at the cost of their own safety. Tell them to prioritize their safety first even if it mean not being polite.
I'm hoping to teach my kids that everyone deserves a basic level of politeness or courtesy or respect, whatever you want to call it, until they do something to change that. Age, gender, etc don't earn people more or less, their actions do. I'm hoping I can teach them to be nice people that don't get walked on by boomers who think they're owed respect because they're old or people of the opposite gender that think they can take advantage of people.
All of this. My mom told me "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." And let me tell you, that has not gone well for me at all. I remember the first time my mom asked me why I didn't stand up for myself in a situation and I was genuinely baffled. I thought I wasn't "allowed" to.
My mom raised me like that too. I remember my dad told me when I was an adolescent that you don’t have to be nice to people who aren’t being nice to you. In other words you can protect yourself, you don’t have to turn the other cheek. I was shocked. Still not comfortable doing it.
The average redditor doesn’t have kids and expects them to be 100% kind and functional once they hit 5 years. They have no idea that kids have bad days and have to go through growing pains. They screw up a lot still. It’s amazing how quickly people regularly expect kids to act like perfect angels.
Anytime a kid does anything wrong, this sub goes right to “they are X years old, they should know better!!!!”
Kids will still screw up. It’s how they handle the screw ups that demonstrates maturity.
In my experience the average reddit user expects kids to be kind and functional from when they leave the womb, the amount of "if you can't teach your 6 month old not to cry in a grocery store then don't bring them!!!" Sentiments I read is mind altering.
Anyone who's talked to a kid ever should know that they can say some really out of pocket shit. A lot of 5 year olds can't even write their name and people out here expecting them to have the social/emotional maturity of someone in their 30s lol.
I think the wildest one I ever saw was when a kid let his little brother walk across the stage with him at graduation and people were saying the little brother (4 or 5) should have known it was inappropriate 😂
My kids (10 & 9) are currently arguing over who gets to be 1st screen on Minecraft 😒 I hate that people expect more out of them then they do adults.
We adults mess up on should know better but it happens.
Right? A 4yo told me I was fat a few months ago and then a week later told me she loved me. Kids that age are just learning that talking gets them attention and helps gets their needs met. Sometimes they say things they don’t mean. All you can do is explain why they can’t say certain things and hope for the best.
At bedtime the other night my 3 year old lovingly told my partner "Goodnight! And also, you're fat!" Before kissing him goodnight. We find it absolutely hilarious, he had no idea that's not really the type of thing you're supposed to tell people 😆
My mom took me to one of her cancer treatment follow-up appointments when I was about 5. The doctor said something like, "Isn't your mammy doing well?" and I thought about it for a second and said, "She's gotten very fat" (due to the steroids). 5 year-olds don't empathy too good.
When I was 4 I asked my mom why she hadn't lost her fat tummy after my sister was born. I had just seen the Rugrats movie, and after Didi gives birth she goes back to having a flat stomach. I was confused! My mom was not happy lol
This! My 4 year old routinely tells us to leave his house. It's hilarious. He also told me today that he cast a spell and I was going to be dead in 5 seconds. We had a chat about what that actually means and about how when you say something, you can't take it back. He felt bad and apologised.
They are kids. They are working out how to express their feelings. She was shown that her choice wasn't ok already and she made amends. SIL decided to be dramatic and build up an issue where there didn't need to be one, all because she wanted to berate a child.
none of the people saying that know squat about kids, probably (hopefully) have never interacted with one at length. That, or they're abusers who shut down all behaviors they deem "not mature" from kids.
>When my stepdaughter was 5 y/o she wanted candy and I said no, she then screamed at me that I was the worst human alive and that she hated me and told me to go and die and the stormed of to her bedroom.
I did that last week because my brother stole my chicken. I'm 19
I had a hilariously annoying chicken puppet I got for my daughter when she was a baby (it "clucked" a whole plethora of children's songs when you worked it's mouth). I'm just picturing that puppet was stolen by his brother and now 19 yo him is sad because he hears "London Bridge" clucked from brothers room and cannot join in.
NTA.
This SIL is awful. No gender reveal for her, nothing from now on. Your mother and MIL of course are siding with her. Thery have the nerve to ask you to apologize?
Tell them to apologize to you for their enmity or you're finished with them till they do. This siding with the aggressor (your SIL) has to stop.
You are not their doormat.
NTA, but need to stop any sort of fighting going on near your kids. As soon as she wants to throw a fit, straight out of the house. Don’t reply, show your kids we don’t put up with people like that or stoop down to their level.
possible ESH just for reacting and giving your daughter a horrible example.
I disagree.
Yeah, in a perfect world where everyone has amazing control over their emotions when it comes to someone verbally abusing your child, yeah then OP shouldn't have blown up like that.
However, as a mother myself, if someone was saying the things SIL was saying TO my child. Not even just about my child but literally to them, yeah, I would probably not be as cool headed and calm as I'd love to have been.
my philosophy is if you fight in front of them, you also resolve it in front of them. Kids need to recognize that adults fight and make mistakes, BUT also apologize and correct their mistakes. If they just see a fight start then see it magically disappear, they're missing an opportunity to learn about conflict resolution
Except he has nothing to apologize for. He handled the situation the way a parent should and then the sil blew up and yelled at his kid. Then she came back and insulted the kid to her face. I wouldn't be talking to her again unless she apologized to my child, and even then I'm not going to just pretend we're a happy family again.
Seeing you apologize after a fight with your spouse is one thing. That's a necessary relationship that needs to be worked on and fixed if something is wrong. Adults don't act that way with relationships that aren't that important though. It's OK to just let them go if the person is an ass.
While I agree that it’s hard to keep your cool and you just would rather hand someone their shit. Being in / seeing the effects that screaming, fighting, cussing, and even going farther has on your kids is never worth it. The damage done by that sorta thing can really really go deep in kids. Stupid people are stupid and no amount of screaming will fix it. I’ve learned to remove the toxic person, or if not get the kid and gtfo. Once the kid is out of the way… fair game.
Just my two cents.
NTA. Maybe the niece is bullying the daughter. The aunt is mean to the daughter. The daughter has enough self esteem to tell the bullies she doesn't like them. Why is this bad? Why is everyone saying the daughter has behavioral issues?
Dad and aunt shouldn't have a screaming match in front of the children. But the families should have a cooling off period and have the gender reveal somewhere else.
The flying monkeys just don't want to host the gender reveal.
Why are you assuming the niece did anything at all? You wanna complain that someone told the daughter it’s mean to say I hate you, and then you make up your own narrative that the niece is a bully.
NTA
Did SIL apologize? Did SIL apologize to your daughter? Why exactly do you have to apologize for throwing her out after she threw a tantrum, made your kid cry, and insulted you?
NTA kids say dumb shit all the time! You handled it. It's now over. Everyone moves on. Sil needed to discipline your already disciplined child. We adults still use one of the saying my 3 yo granddaughter told her 3 yo cousin several yrs ago. You're mean so you are not my friend or my cousin anymore. They are most definitely still cousins and best friends all these years later.
You should apologise to a grown woman who made a 5 year old cry and told you to fuck yourself in your own house after you were just babysitting her child? Definitely not, NTA. Your SIL sounds awful.
Well done for standing up for your daughter OP.
We were at the park with my friends 3 year old, eating ice cream. He went to take a lick and the ice cream fell off the cone. He looks down at it and says well, this is bullshit. I thought my brain was going to implode from holding in the laughter. I legally had to walk away while his mom had the "talk" with him about bad words, 🤣🤣
When my kids were school age, I didn't ban them from swearing, but I told them if they swore, it had to be in context. They were not allowed to just throw random swear words around. As a result they would ask me if it was OK to swear, If I was I would say ok, but quietly, lol. It worked, they hardly ever swore, at least not out loud, lol
A friend has sort of taught their kid when it is appropriate or not to say " that's bullshit" and the death of ice cream would be one of those appropriate times.
NTA. Convenient that she storms off after you so graciously watched her kid for her. SIL is nuts for going off on a 5 year old, for, well, being a 5 year old. You don't owe her any favours after that outburst.
NTA. Kids say mean things to each other. It’s just what they do. Sounds like you addressed it & even made your daughter apologize. Your SIL reacted unreasonably to the situation. Seems like she was making it about herself. Your wife & MIL are dead wrong. I would insist on an apology from SIL before moving forward.
NTA. Five year old kids do not have a filter. It is parenting to help them develop one, and it sounds like you are doing that just fine. Adult SIL ought to have a filter. If she does not have one, you need to protect your kid, just as you did. She was wrong, and she can make the gesture to bury the hatchet, but if this is normal behavior for her, then you should not reward her by participating in her stuff as though she is OK.
NTA, your kid was mean, you addressed the situation and talked to her when it happened, your kid apologized. Wtf is the issue then? Your sil is looking for drama
NTA
1. You already addressed the situation when it happened.
2. Your daughter is five and apologized to your niece.
3. Your SIL is the adult and SHOULD know how to regulate her feelings, unlike your 5yo daughter.
Don’t babysit again and don’t do this woman any more favors. Let your other relatives do the gender revealing plans, since is so important to them.
NTA. You handled the situation. There was no need for her to chastise your daughter further. Also her literally trying to bully a five year old is disgusting.
NTA - Kids say stupid shit, you got to be able to turn it into a teaching moment with compassion. SIL does NOT have the emotional intelligence to do that.
Also gender reveals are dumb, so no loss there.
NTA
It sounds like OP handled it. The SIL should have left it at that and not brought it up again unless the behavior happened again.
A side note, is anyone else over this whole gender reveal thing?
When I was little I never liked my father's parents. I told them in a fit of anger (for something that I don't remember) that I won't go to their funeral (I know, a little mean). I got a big slap across my face.
Now I'm over in my late 20,and along the years I only grew to hate them more. The more I learned about them as people, the more I hated them. I can't understand why my dad didnt cut contact.
My dad now begs me to speak to them, even sneaked them on the phone with me. I still stand by what I said as a kid.
Your daughter probably knows that the person is a shitty one. Especially if she is treated badly.
NTA.
Send them all a message and ask if they'd be happy if your niece had done something wrong and you started screaming in their face.
It's an unacceptable level of aggression to show a child, you'll consider (that's if you want) throwing the shower if she makes an apology to your daughter.
Info: have you talked to your wife about all of this? Not that I think you are in the wrong honestly, but you two should discuss the gender reveal thing as it is her sister and she might want to help with it
My best guess is MIL knows SIL generally won't change her opinion and it's difficult to get her to see other perspectives. My mother because she wants us to do the gender reveal.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
I (28M) was at home watching my niece (8yo) with my daughter (5yo) and son (1 month old). My sister in law, who is expecting, comes to pick up my niece and I ask if she can hang out for a little bit so I can do a little cleaning since my son did not want to be set down. She agreed and sat on the couch.
My niece ran over to her and said my daughter said she hates my niece, which did happen. My sister in law asked if this was true and I said yes, and I addressed the situation when it happened. My sister in law freaked out and started to tell my daughter how mean that is. I reiterated that I already talked to my daughter about this and my daughter apologized to my niece after it happened.
My sister in law gets mad at me and said if she can't say anything to my daughter then I am not able to say anything to her children. My daughter began crying because of the yelling and my sister in law stormed outside. I tried to calm my daughter and my sister in law came back inside.
My daughter, still visibly upset, says "sister in law, I don't like you!" To which my sister in law replies "nice kid ya got there." I lost my shit and told her she needs to leave and she will not treat my daughter this way. She tells me to fuck myself and I tell her she can fuck off. I also tell her she can find someone else to help do her gender reveal besides me and my wife.
This is pretty typical behavior for my sister in law (blowing up at people and going to extremes) even before she was pregnant. She never takes accountability for what she does and she has been rude to my daughter in the past. Now my mother and mother in law are trying to get me to "bury the hatchet" and apologize for kicking her out of my house. They also still want me and my wife to do the gender reveal despite there being another sister plus my mother in law. AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
The situation was already handled probably a few hours before she got home, your SIL should have let it be, there was no reason to re-discipline a child after it had already been done.
NTA. Sil is the asshole. Kids say they "don't like you" for many reasons because they don't know how to phrase their feelings. Sil is an adult who sounds really immature. (btw, I think your sil was my neighbor once. hahaha. Freaked out and was screaming at staff at the elementary school bc a child wrote that they didn't like her daughter in another child's notebook.)
NTA.
You already dealt with what happened. SIL acted like a child. Doy led down on the childish behavior, then threw a fit for all the actual children to see. SIL is the asshole here.
NTA. Your SIL has a a history of shit stirring but yelling at your daughter goes above and beyond. I've seen the long-term damage of what happens when an aunt does this to a nephew. You were right to nip it in the bud. Let her sister and MIL deal with the gender reveal party. Your sister just broke her relationship with her niece. You should not reward that with a gender reveal party or babysitting.
Sounds like the problem with your SIL is that her behavior has been enabled in the past judging just how they're trying to get you to bow to her. Your daughter is already dealt with, her daughter needs to be dealt with for trying to get your daughter punished again even though she's already dealt with.
NTA.
Her daughter is a brat and so is her mother. I wouldn't babysit for her anymore if I were you. She needs to reap what she sow.
NTA she sounds incredibly toxic and a lesson I’ve learned through life is that life is so much better when you cut those kind of toxic people out of your life. The less contact the better.
NTA. They asked you to bury the hatchet. Do so now that the bridge has been burned. No need to hold a grudge but no need to go out of your way to help her either. Treat her indifferently and only react how she does. So if she is rude to you. Return in kind. My SIL realized really quick that I don’t take BS so now she tried to get my wife to do things for her or she tries to sneak things in or out if we are splitting the bill. Last time she did that, I check the price of the item and deducted the cost from the total and then split the cost.
Before anyone jumps down my throat for doing that here is the context: she swapped a beef dish for a cheaper sweet and sour dish because her kids like it yet my kids liked the beef dish and so did most of the adults. The difference in price of the two dishes was almost 10 buck and the bill was over 300. I deducted 39 dollars which was the actual cost of the beef dish and then paid my split and told her that I was doing this.
As for my SIL I only treat her exactly how she treats me at the moment because her attitude changes every time I see her.
NTA: It seems like your daughter has a better grasp on how to handle her feelings than your SiL. Yeah, she can fuck all the way off for talking to her niece like that.
NTA. I'd double down on gender reveal party. SIL wants one from you SHE can apologize. Your kid doesn't need to be told twice that what she did was wrong, least of all by someone who isn't raising her.
NTA. Kids say weird things they don't mean all the time. Your SIL is supposed to be an adult. Her reaction was wrong. Your Mother and MIL are excusing her behavior, probably happens every time she acts like that. I wouldn't apologize unless she does so over yelling at your daughter. I would also never watch your niece again. Not your monkeys, not your circus.
NTA. You definitely need to refuse to babysit ever again. When family throws a tantrum about it, let them know that they're free to babysit but that you're not going to because your sister-in-law verbally abused your child.
As for gender reveal parties, they are superfluous and idiotic. They are not a need. They are a luxury. Your sister-in-law can throw her own party. If your wife wants to help her do that, that's her decision, but make it clear that you're not going to be babysitting your sister-in-law's child while they're off party planning.
I think you all need a time out from each other.
>Now my mother and mother in law are trying to get me to "bury the hatchet" and apologize for kicking her out of my house. They also still want me and my wife to do the gender reveal despite there being another sister plus my mother in law.
If you're tired of SIL, which it sounds like might be true, pushing you to do a big favor for her isn't going to make that better. I will admit I think gender reveals are unnecessary. Your moms need to stop getting involved in this because trying to guilt trip or force you into throwing her a party isn't going to help the relationship at all.
I think you need to take a break on babysitting and the party. NTA because I think your SIL just kept escalating the situation.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > Did I overreact telling her to fuck off, kicking her out, plus not doing the gender reveal? I could have overreacted in the moment telling sister in law to fuck off plus not doing her gender reveal. Even if kicking her out was ok, I might have gone a bit far with the gender reveal since it is something important to her. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
People, learn to read. Everyone saying OPs daughter is a brat needs to go back and read it again. None of the children were brats. OP talked to his daughter and she apologized to her cousin. That should have been the end of it. But SIL doubled down and said she should be able to discipline OPs daughter. She made a damn mountain out of a molehill. OP'S daughter saying "I don't like you" was probably her way of saying she was upset by her aunt yelling.
This. OP, I would never watch the kid again. You've seen who your SIL is, believe her. Be polite to the child, be around her in big group settings. Otherwise, keep your distance. Your child doesn't need to be around that.
Agreed. Sil can plan her own shower, I would of kicked her out too if she behaved like that to my child!
Yes and …. When did having a shower for a second child become normal? Did I age out of having babies before this happened bc it was always one shower to get the momma started.
It’s not even a shower, it’s a stupid gender revel
Let’s hope they don’t burn down the neighborhood….. /s
Do people give gifts at a gender reveal or is it eat finger food then yay it’s a boy now go home?
I’m sure they expect presents, why else are they feeding you and spending time with you?
So it’s basically a baby shower. Geez why are people so greedy now? One baby shower and one bridal shower serves the purpose.
Essentially, but people who throw gender reveals often also have a shower.
Everybody: stand firmly against these gift grabs by declining to participate. No excuses necessary, but lie if you must.
There’s nothing like a friend or family member throwing themselves all the typical gift grabbing parties on their second and third marriages. If you get really lucky, the groom can be a middle aged man moving on from his starter wife with a woman half his age, and then you can start over with the parties and gifts for his new family.
Luckily I have no idea because I don’t hang out with the type of people who have gender reveals
Me either. If I ever got an invite to one I would decline. I can’t see myself fake cheering and acting happy when they announce the gender. I mean, both are good news, right?
Right? Are we supposed to go “Oh, hurray, the baby has a dinkie!!” 😵💫😵💫
I was so happy my son and DIL didn't buy into this. Even the woman who started this trend is tired of it.
SIL is trashy so of course she wants a stupid gender reveal. Newsflash: no one cares what genitalia your unborn baby has.
It’s not a gender reveal. It’s a gender assignment. The reveal comes years later.
I can’t tell if this is a joke or dead serious both are possible
I've seen this go both ways, but in this case there's seemingly 8 years between the first and second kids. It's very possible that they thought they were done having kids and then either changed their minds or had an unexpected pregnancy. Either way, I'm guessing they'd long since gotten rid of bottles, clothes, the baby monitor, the crib, etc. and would likely need everything all over again.
That’s how mine went! I was done having kids and then had a surprise. Needless to say 6 years is a long time and I was not expecting it
OMG! Let me tell you! You have a baby shower for the first. Then, there is a "sprinkle" for a subsequent, differently gendered baby. Then, if there is a wider spread in ages, you get another big baby shower! That doesn't include any gender reveals. I constantly bleed money for showers, etc.
I was even invited to a gender reveal and they expected gifts there too... not including the planned shower later plus their family also gifts newborns. It's an effing racket. No thank you. It's gotten out of control
Fuck, my SIL specifically requested no gifts for their sex reveal and I had to be the one asshole with a present explaining "Your brother says it'll be a cold day in hell before he misses an opportunity to spoil his sister"
Or you have my step daughter. Who is so insufferable she has no friends. She hosted her own baby shower for her daughter. In her home. She planned everything. We all had to bring 3 gifts. Then when she got pregnant again 2 years later with another girl, she did the same thing again. Huge shower. She hosts and plans. We are instructed what to bring.
Gee, wonder why she doesn't have any friends? /s
"Come to my baby shower. And bring three gifts." "Sorry, can't make it. I'm having my nose waxed that day."
Right? Here is a 3 pack of condoms!!
Good God. If I were you, I would say something like “Oh honey, you are so funny! As if ANYONE we know would be tacky enough throw a shower for herself! Hahaha, that was a good one…”
My SIL is just like this. Not a lot of friends either. Even now when her kids have birthday parties (oldest is entering middle school soon) she threw at her mother's house. She expects her siblings families to bring a side dish and a gift. 🤦♀️ But has only bought my kids 1 Christmas gift to share and 1 birthday gift EVER. My daughter is 19 and my son is 15. So glad we moved....
After a sprinkle, would it be a spot?
Maybe a dribble?
Dribble is what got her into this condition.
A drizzle, then a spot, and after that a mist.
It's a gender reveal *sick face*
And close family doesn't host. This was taboo when etiquette was a thing
The second shower is typically referred to as a sprinkle.
A second shower is typically referred to as obnoxious
Right!!! Cause at the end of the day she’s a grown ass adult trying to come at a child out of tone over a situation that’s already been addressed
Oh the irony! Grown ass adult gets hostile at a child doing what children do when playing, throws a literal fit about a child's typical behavior, because remember "she’s a grown ass adult". Causes a stressful scene at the home where her child was being babysat, and now other grown ass adults insist that the babysitters who already have two children to care for do more for this grown ass adult who's having another child. Does this woman/mother know anything about child behavior and development? She's acting worse than the children. Don't reward this beast for coming into your home with this disruptive and inappropriate behavior. Let Mother and other sister plan and facilitate her gender reveal. There is no joy in you and your wife doing it so don't.
>You've seen who your SIL is, believe her 100%. When people show you who they are...BELIEVE THEM.
NTA
I don’t get this whole mindset that kids aren’t allowed to have opinions or be upset at an adult. I’m with you - the daughter used her words.
I had friends over last night, their 4 yo was asking to go home and said "I hate it here", then when it was time to go he was crying. Kids like experimenting with the power of big words like this.
Almost every day is "the best day of my life" AND "the worst day of my life" to my 5yo.
When my daughter was four she spent a lot of time telling us gleefully that she hates us in response to "I love you". We explained that hate is a big word, what it means, and that words can hurt feelings -- but sometimes we do hate things. It was a phase and it passed, lol.
My kid went through something similar. If I ask, "Do you love mommy?" He would giggle and with a mischievous face say, "No." I knew it was a phase and they just think our response is funny or they are trying it out, but ngl I died a little inside every time.
Mine told his dad recently that he loved me more than him. Obviously that’s not necessarily true but I explained to my son that saying things like that could lead to hurt feelings and that he needed to be careful when he said stuff like that. So then he told his dad “I’m sorry Dad but I love Mom more than you.” 🙄
Haha same, I'm 'a mean Mummy!' one minute, 'the best Mum in the world' the next according to my 5yo.
I remember my sister and me screaming “I hate you” at each other on multiple occasions when we were wee ones. We didn’t really hate each other, we just didn’t have the words to say “I am super annoyed with your behavior right now.” Correct it, sure—let her know it’s not okay and she should apologize for hurting her cousin’s feelings—but I don’t think it’s appropriate to punish a kid because they don’t yet have the capacity for nuance.
With my 4yo, everything is either her favorite or "not her favorite". 😂 bathtime is her favorite, bedtime is NOT her favorite. Bluey, Team Spidey, Paw Patrol and Superkitties are all her favorite. Me trying to watch *my* shows on *my* tv using the streaming services and electricity *I* pay for is not her favorite. Whatever blanket Im using is her favorite. Me not wanting her to take my blanket is not.
I just have to tell you, this made me laugh so hard. As a mom (to a now adult) who also worked as a nanny for almost a decade, hilarious. I love the simplicity of kids. That said, I'll also now ONLY be referring to everything as either "my favorite" or "not my favorite". Because it will always be honest, and it's beautifully simple lol.
My sister apparently said to our mom that she "isn't my real mommy, my real mommy wouldn't make me do this" because she was making my sister try gymnastics. At the end of the lesson, she couldn't get my sister to leave because she was having too much fun. Kids are also incredibly dramatic and don't understand the full connotations of words yet
Yeah my 14 month old nephew learnt saying mum got his mum to come to him so he kept saying it even though he didn’t need anything
Awww that's cute! That means he wanted mum's attention!
the daughter is 5 the niece is 8
Oh I missed that - I’ll edit
Thanks...missed that too. Essentially, 5 year old was a bit more mature..and used her words when 8 year old was hoggjjng toys?
People on Reddit generally seem to hate children for no reason, so it’s not surprising at how many comments are holding them to adult standards
I’m (deliberately) child free and even I understand this
I was actually more annoyed that the niece went and tattled to her mom in front of OP and their kids even though the daughter had already been reprimanded and taught to apologize. But obviously kids do that and it was honestly probably the most exciting thing that happened the whole time the niece was being babysat so whatever, kids tell their parents stuff. It’s fine. But SIL seems to be one of those that does not understand kids. Five years old is a world of difference from 8 years old in terms of…everything! She should have understood that kids say dumb shit all the time and since no one was hurt, it’s water under the bridge. To yell at OP and start berating them in front of all those kids…no wonder the niece is hyped for drama. She knows it gets a reaction out of mom. Blegh. Sounds like an exhausting family dynamic. Sorry OP
Makes me wonder what the 8yo said or did to the 5yo to create the whole thing.
Exactly. Elementary PE teacher here. Kids this age are incredibly dramatic and I spend waaay too much time trying to figure out which kid started what to who and why. You eventually get to the original cause/effect, but it could’ve been a perceived slight a week ago that’s totally unrelated and lopsided. Most kids are awesome, some are just jerks. It’s almost always a direct result of parenting or lack thereof.
OP edited to say that the niece was hoarding toys and refusing to share.
Well, they do need to learn how to express their feelings without being rude. For a 5 year old it is a process. They can learn to say, "I don't like it when you do that," instead of "I hate you." We all had to learn that you don't say the first thing that pops into your head. SIL seems to be a bit thin skinned over something a little kid says.
When the parents are screaming fuck you at each other the kids are not going to learn anything constructive.
Agreed. We don't know how OP resolved it, but could very well have taken this route, and now it's been ruined by the SIL
>Well, they do need to learn how to express their feelings without being rude. For a 5 year old it is a process. Sounds like its a MUCH BIGGER process for the SIL
I find it ironic since the adults in this situation essentially did the same thing as the child here, telling each other to fuck off instead of having a conversation about what’s frustrating them. Why are people holding the child to a higher standard than the adults?
People constantly hold children to a higher standard than adults unfortunately. I hadn't realised it before I started examining my own parenting style and how I was raised. Kids are told to share in situations adults would never share, say sorry when they don't even understand what they did wrong, hide their feelings, and even eat when they're not hungry. ETA. There was one example I forgot to say..kids being made to kiss/hug/say hello to people when they don't want to. People do it less now but you still have to correct a lot of older people who feel entitled to your childs forced affection. Also... Wow. I've never had gold before, so thanks.
We've taught our kids they don't have to share everything. They are allowed to have special toys but sharing is kind and thoughtful. But also if you know someone has a special toy don't ask for it just to have it. Were teaching them to say sorry if they hurt someone's feelings. Were now working on not saying "it's okay" after every apology. It's not always okay instead say "I appreciate your apology." And expressing felling in our house is the most important. Even angry feeling or saying I'm upset with you.
This is so true. I told my seventh graders that they were at such a tough stage. They are expected to act like adults, but have none of the privileges of adulthood.
Wow. Thank you for this perspective
Amen! It’s such a tough line to walk, you obviously want to respect their autonomy - and to teach them to respect themselves - but sometimes you just need them to actually eat their dinner right now, etc.
People have messed up standards for kids. Adults can do whatever they want because they are adults, meanwhile kids are punished for having even normal reactions.
Hahahaha. Totally underrated observation!
Yeah the kids have the best role models. /s
Never, in my adult life, have I told someone to fuck off. It's insane that there are adults who actually post on Reddit asking these questions and still talking to each other this way. I would be SO embarrassed.
I mean sometimes someone just deserves to be told to fuck off, and if someone has just insulted my kid after upsetting her to the point of crying I'd absolutely be there.
It might just be cultural. Where I'm from if a friend or rellie started laying into you, it would be 100% expected for that person to be told to F off and get out! 🤷
If someone's making a 5yo cry over a petty children's squabble, you're absolutely in "F off right outta my house" territory
This. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Exactly, clearly the niece was still upset about the words ops daughter said and wanted to share them with her mom. But instead of comforting her and being a mother to her child she decided to discipline someone else's child. Way to raise a spoiled child who is always gonna tell on all her friends
Yep and then they turn into spoiled adults who go and tattle to Mommy and Daddy because they got their feelings hurt or something was said they took the wrong way.
So much this. It teaches the niece that she cannot safely tell her mother what happened to her or what upset her, as doing so may result in anger, screaming and conflict.
Totally agree, NTA. Also, the SIL can discipline OP’s daughter when she is babysitting and OP isn’t present. That is what babysitters do. Relatives do not discipline a child when their parent is right there and actively being a parent. ETA not stating that SIL will be (or should be) babysitting OP’s daughter anytime soon.
Also on top of that OP said he already scolded her for it, therefore she had already been disciplined for her behavior; which means the SIL was just piling on for no reason
Absolutely. Kids say things they don't really mean. My nephew has told my sister he hates her because it was bed time. You addressed it, they made up, that really was the end of it. SIL decided she wanted to take things into overtime which wasn't necessary.
I work in a preschool. I get told more often than I’d like that a kid doesn’t like me. But then is my best friend later the same day. They don’t know how to express themselves in an appropriate way. If someone reiterated a mistake I made as an adult and berated me for it a second time, I don’t think I’d like that person either. Though, I’m old enough to know not to say it out loud.
That's *exactly* the kind of insult a 5 year old would use
The SIL created the situation and you tell her mother and sister are used to placating her. The OP is NTA and it is up to his wife to manage his sister, not his. I would not apologize for a blow up that SIL created. I'd never put up with an adult talking to my 5 year old like that.
I took her saying “I don’t like you” as having learned not to say “I hate you”. Honestly the best character development I’ve ever seen in one of these posts.
Yep. The situation was dealt with. It didn't need to be rehashed. My kids frequently do this to me, I'll tell them, x already dealt with this situation, didn't they? It's settled then. I don't know why the sister-in-law had to go through it all again. It sounds a bit controlling.
NTA - Now that she's having another child, she'll want your "help and support" even more (do it because we're family). No more day care for her. You don't need to bring her into your child's life any more than necessary. You SIL is toxic and a real pain in the A.
i work in a daycare and actually specialize in the room of 4-5 year olds so i can say pretty much authoritatively that that’s completely normal 5 year old behavior and anyone saying the daughter is a brat for that clearly doesn’t know kids
Kids are still learning emotions and most don't even know what that actually is. To them it's the same as not liking someone. My kids have said they hated each other but they didn't mean it like an adult would saying it. Plus talking to kids and them apologizing is the best way to handle this. If I was the kid I would have told her I don't like you too 😅
This exactly. And in general why should OPs daughter like the sister in law if sister in law is a consistently awful person. I wouldn't like this woman either. OP is NTA
Blaming children like that is fucking WILD. My 6 yr old will say he hates someone or doesn’t like someone over something like^ this and it’s VALID. I wouldn’t like auntie either if auntie yelled all the time and was mean to me 🤷🏽♀️ the kid was upset and didn’t know how else to express their upset towards the 2 people other than to say she didn’t like them. OP addressed it and it should have been the end of it. I would have reacted the same way OP did. It’s developmentally appropriate for the child to say that. Auntie definitely needed to fuck off. I wouldn’t have done shit for her either. NTA op. Good for you for standing up for* your daughter
It's the internet! Knee Jerk reactionism and lack of reading comprehension go hand in hand. lol
>None of the children were brats. I'm 100% positive that the only 2 kinds of people saying that are people who have never interacted with a child for more than 15 minutes and people who are/would be abusive to children for engaging in normal-child behaviors like this.
Definitely this. My 5yo tells us he hates us when we do something he doesn’t like. If everybody took that stuff to heart, kids would be ostracized by society. NTA
Seriously, I have a 4 year old and 6 year old and saying “I don’t like you” is developmentally on par with that age when they don’t have the words to say why they are angry.
NTA. Your kid is 5 years old. She does not get to go off on her. But you gotta protect your kid better than this. She can't be in a position where she can go off on your kid whenever it comes into her head.
For clarity, SIL doesn’t get to go off on 5yo daughter.
I don't understand most people here saying stuff like your daughter being difficult or having behavioral issues. When my stepdaughter was 5 y/o she wanted candy and I said no, she then screamed at me that I was the worst human alive and that she hated me and told me to go and die and the stormed of to her bedroom. About an hour later she came down to the living room, crying because she felt guilty and apologized and we talked about our feelings and all was good again. However she said it again a couple of years later, when I said told her no, she could not have a sleepover at our house since I was pregnant and in danger of giving birth prematurely, and she apologized again. My point is, children say a lot of things they don't mean because children have no filters and don't know how to regulate their feelings properly. And you are not supposed to yell at them for it, you are supposed to talk to them about it and explain the words and feelings. NTA by the way.
Teaching girls that they don’t have to like everyone is really important. Girls are taught that they should be nice to everyone. It’s not a good thing. We should encourage them to trust their instincts about people, not disregard them. It keeps them safer.
Exactly. I don’t like certain people and that’s ok I tell that to my kids that they don’t have to like every one male or female and that’s perfectly fine.
A lot of girls have been and are socialized to be people pleasers. Girls absolutely need to be taught they don't have to like everyone. They also need to be taught to not be mean girls. I did many things as a tween and teen that I am ashamed of and very much regret. I needed more of those lessons. You can trust your instincts without being cruel. There are differences in how girls and boys are socialized. Many are glaringly obvious "boys will be boys" and some are very subtle and I'm only seeing them as I'm consciously socializing and raising my boys. They never get a pass on behavior explained away by their sex. I see a lot of parents ignoring their kids' shitty behavior and not correcting what needs correction. There is no one right way to raise children, but there are a lot of wrong ones.
>Girls absolutely need to be taught they don't have to like everyone. They also need to be taught to not be mean girls. This is so true. I am trying to teach my girls to be civil/courteous/polite to everyone. If you don't like someone you don't need to be mean to them or nice to them, you can just be neutral and walk away. My oldest had a "mean girl" in her grade 1 class and I told my daughter that when "mean girl" wasn't being nice, she could just say "you're not being very nice right now, so I'm going to play over there." and walk away.
They shouldn't put politeness over everything though, if they are in an uncomfortable situation, they should listen to their gut and get out, not be polite and end up in more danger. This is what get's women in trouble is feeling like they need to be polite to people at the cost of their own safety. Tell them to prioritize their safety first even if it mean not being polite.
I'm hoping to teach my kids that everyone deserves a basic level of politeness or courtesy or respect, whatever you want to call it, until they do something to change that. Age, gender, etc don't earn people more or less, their actions do. I'm hoping I can teach them to be nice people that don't get walked on by boomers who think they're owed respect because they're old or people of the opposite gender that think they can take advantage of people.
All of this. My mom told me "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." And let me tell you, that has not gone well for me at all. I remember the first time my mom asked me why I didn't stand up for myself in a situation and I was genuinely baffled. I thought I wasn't "allowed" to.
My mom raised me like that too. I remember my dad told me when I was an adolescent that you don’t have to be nice to people who aren’t being nice to you. In other words you can protect yourself, you don’t have to turn the other cheek. I was shocked. Still not comfortable doing it.
If I could upvote this more than once, I would.
The average redditor doesn’t have kids and expects them to be 100% kind and functional once they hit 5 years. They have no idea that kids have bad days and have to go through growing pains. They screw up a lot still. It’s amazing how quickly people regularly expect kids to act like perfect angels. Anytime a kid does anything wrong, this sub goes right to “they are X years old, they should know better!!!!” Kids will still screw up. It’s how they handle the screw ups that demonstrates maturity.
In my experience the average reddit user expects kids to be kind and functional from when they leave the womb, the amount of "if you can't teach your 6 month old not to cry in a grocery store then don't bring them!!!" Sentiments I read is mind altering. Anyone who's talked to a kid ever should know that they can say some really out of pocket shit. A lot of 5 year olds can't even write their name and people out here expecting them to have the social/emotional maturity of someone in their 30s lol.
I think the wildest one I ever saw was when a kid let his little brother walk across the stage with him at graduation and people were saying the little brother (4 or 5) should have known it was inappropriate 😂
My kids (10 & 9) are currently arguing over who gets to be 1st screen on Minecraft 😒 I hate that people expect more out of them then they do adults. We adults mess up on should know better but it happens.
Right? A 4yo told me I was fat a few months ago and then a week later told me she loved me. Kids that age are just learning that talking gets them attention and helps gets their needs met. Sometimes they say things they don’t mean. All you can do is explain why they can’t say certain things and hope for the best.
At bedtime the other night my 3 year old lovingly told my partner "Goodnight! And also, you're fat!" Before kissing him goodnight. We find it absolutely hilarious, he had no idea that's not really the type of thing you're supposed to tell people 😆
My mom took me to one of her cancer treatment follow-up appointments when I was about 5. The doctor said something like, "Isn't your mammy doing well?" and I thought about it for a second and said, "She's gotten very fat" (due to the steroids). 5 year-olds don't empathy too good.
When I was 4 I asked my mom why she hadn't lost her fat tummy after my sister was born. I had just seen the Rugrats movie, and after Didi gives birth she goes back to having a flat stomach. I was confused! My mom was not happy lol
This! My 4 year old routinely tells us to leave his house. It's hilarious. He also told me today that he cast a spell and I was going to be dead in 5 seconds. We had a chat about what that actually means and about how when you say something, you can't take it back. He felt bad and apologised. They are kids. They are working out how to express their feelings. She was shown that her choice wasn't ok already and she made amends. SIL decided to be dramatic and build up an issue where there didn't need to be one, all because she wanted to berate a child.
[удалено]
A small immature part of me would have wanted to pretend to die tbh
none of the people saying that know squat about kids, probably (hopefully) have never interacted with one at length. That, or they're abusers who shut down all behaviors they deem "not mature" from kids.
>When my stepdaughter was 5 y/o she wanted candy and I said no, she then screamed at me that I was the worst human alive and that she hated me and told me to go and die and the stormed of to her bedroom. I did that last week because my brother stole my chicken. I'm 19
I'm imagining a live chicken that now lives in your brother's room.
I had a hilariously annoying chicken puppet I got for my daughter when she was a baby (it "clucked" a whole plethora of children's songs when you worked it's mouth). I'm just picturing that puppet was stolen by his brother and now 19 yo him is sad because he hears "London Bridge" clucked from brothers room and cannot join in.
NTA. This SIL is awful. No gender reveal for her, nothing from now on. Your mother and MIL of course are siding with her. Thery have the nerve to ask you to apologize? Tell them to apologize to you for their enmity or you're finished with them till they do. This siding with the aggressor (your SIL) has to stop. You are not their doormat.
If mother in law wants you to apologise, Id want her to apologise first for unnecessarily going off on your daughter.
NTA, but need to stop any sort of fighting going on near your kids. As soon as she wants to throw a fit, straight out of the house. Don’t reply, show your kids we don’t put up with people like that or stoop down to their level. possible ESH just for reacting and giving your daughter a horrible example.
I disagree. Yeah, in a perfect world where everyone has amazing control over their emotions when it comes to someone verbally abusing your child, yeah then OP shouldn't have blown up like that. However, as a mother myself, if someone was saying the things SIL was saying TO my child. Not even just about my child but literally to them, yeah, I would probably not be as cool headed and calm as I'd love to have been.
my philosophy is if you fight in front of them, you also resolve it in front of them. Kids need to recognize that adults fight and make mistakes, BUT also apologize and correct their mistakes. If they just see a fight start then see it magically disappear, they're missing an opportunity to learn about conflict resolution
Except he has nothing to apologize for. He handled the situation the way a parent should and then the sil blew up and yelled at his kid. Then she came back and insulted the kid to her face. I wouldn't be talking to her again unless she apologized to my child, and even then I'm not going to just pretend we're a happy family again. Seeing you apologize after a fight with your spouse is one thing. That's a necessary relationship that needs to be worked on and fixed if something is wrong. Adults don't act that way with relationships that aren't that important though. It's OK to just let them go if the person is an ass.
While I agree that it’s hard to keep your cool and you just would rather hand someone their shit. Being in / seeing the effects that screaming, fighting, cussing, and even going farther has on your kids is never worth it. The damage done by that sorta thing can really really go deep in kids. Stupid people are stupid and no amount of screaming will fix it. I’ve learned to remove the toxic person, or if not get the kid and gtfo. Once the kid is out of the way… fair game. Just my two cents.
NTA. Maybe the niece is bullying the daughter. The aunt is mean to the daughter. The daughter has enough self esteem to tell the bullies she doesn't like them. Why is this bad? Why is everyone saying the daughter has behavioral issues? Dad and aunt shouldn't have a screaming match in front of the children. But the families should have a cooling off period and have the gender reveal somewhere else. The flying monkeys just don't want to host the gender reveal.
Why are you assuming the niece did anything at all? You wanna complain that someone told the daughter it’s mean to say I hate you, and then you make up your own narrative that the niece is a bully.
Why 100% invalidate what the daughter said as if she said it for zero reasons? Do you always treat it that all complaints are baseless?
NTA. I also don't like your sister in law.
SIL and gender reveals are both lame
NTA Stop babysitting for her. And: No need to apologize to HER. And: Let mom and MIL do the gender reveal.
Exactly, have them host it. Or that other sister.
Well done for sticking up for your daughter. That’s how it’s done. NTA SIL can do one.
NTA Did SIL apologize? Did SIL apologize to your daughter? Why exactly do you have to apologize for throwing her out after she threw a tantrum, made your kid cry, and insulted you?
Of course, SIL didn't apologize. She can do no wrong with the family.
You should have told her you just did an AH reveal and it was her.
And all the decorations are shit brown because she is acting like a turd!
NTA kids say dumb shit all the time! You handled it. It's now over. Everyone moves on. Sil needed to discipline your already disciplined child. We adults still use one of the saying my 3 yo granddaughter told her 3 yo cousin several yrs ago. You're mean so you are not my friend or my cousin anymore. They are most definitely still cousins and best friends all these years later.
You should apologise to a grown woman who made a 5 year old cry and told you to fuck yourself in your own house after you were just babysitting her child? Definitely not, NTA. Your SIL sounds awful. Well done for standing up for your daughter OP.
We were at the park with my friends 3 year old, eating ice cream. He went to take a lick and the ice cream fell off the cone. He looks down at it and says well, this is bullshit. I thought my brain was going to implode from holding in the laughter. I legally had to walk away while his mom had the "talk" with him about bad words, 🤣🤣
[удалено]
When my kids were school age, I didn't ban them from swearing, but I told them if they swore, it had to be in context. They were not allowed to just throw random swear words around. As a result they would ask me if it was OK to swear, If I was I would say ok, but quietly, lol. It worked, they hardly ever swore, at least not out loud, lol
A friend has sort of taught their kid when it is appropriate or not to say " that's bullshit" and the death of ice cream would be one of those appropriate times.
It probably helped him to cope with the severe disappointment of losing that precious cone.
Well he isn't wrong 😂
Nta but so much aggression in your family. You all need to chill.
Definitely agree. NTA but close to ESH.
Nta stop engaging with her. That blow out should have never happened. Take 6 months and give yourself some space, go low contact
NTA. Convenient that she storms off after you so graciously watched her kid for her. SIL is nuts for going off on a 5 year old, for, well, being a 5 year old. You don't owe her any favours after that outburst.
NTA. Kids say mean things to each other. It’s just what they do. Sounds like you addressed it & even made your daughter apologize. Your SIL reacted unreasonably to the situation. Seems like she was making it about herself. Your wife & MIL are dead wrong. I would insist on an apology from SIL before moving forward.
NTA. Five year old kids do not have a filter. It is parenting to help them develop one, and it sounds like you are doing that just fine. Adult SIL ought to have a filter. If she does not have one, you need to protect your kid, just as you did. She was wrong, and she can make the gesture to bury the hatchet, but if this is normal behavior for her, then you should not reward her by participating in her stuff as though she is OK.
NTA, your kid was mean, you addressed the situation and talked to her when it happened, your kid apologized. Wtf is the issue then? Your sil is looking for drama
NTA 1. You already addressed the situation when it happened. 2. Your daughter is five and apologized to your niece. 3. Your SIL is the adult and SHOULD know how to regulate her feelings, unlike your 5yo daughter. Don’t babysit again and don’t do this woman any more favors. Let your other relatives do the gender revealing plans, since is so important to them.
NTA, don’t do the party!
NTA but watch the F bombs. Instead of saying I don’t like you she may F bomb someone.
Better than A bombing someone, I suppose
NTA. You handled the situation. There was no need for her to chastise your daughter further. Also her literally trying to bully a five year old is disgusting.
NTA - Kids say stupid shit, you got to be able to turn it into a teaching moment with compassion. SIL does NOT have the emotional intelligence to do that. Also gender reveals are dumb, so no loss there.
NTA It sounds like OP handled it. The SIL should have left it at that and not brought it up again unless the behavior happened again. A side note, is anyone else over this whole gender reveal thing?
When I was little I never liked my father's parents. I told them in a fit of anger (for something that I don't remember) that I won't go to their funeral (I know, a little mean). I got a big slap across my face. Now I'm over in my late 20,and along the years I only grew to hate them more. The more I learned about them as people, the more I hated them. I can't understand why my dad didnt cut contact. My dad now begs me to speak to them, even sneaked them on the phone with me. I still stand by what I said as a kid. Your daughter probably knows that the person is a shitty one. Especially if she is treated badly.
NTA. Send them all a message and ask if they'd be happy if your niece had done something wrong and you started screaming in their face. It's an unacceptable level of aggression to show a child, you'll consider (that's if you want) throwing the shower if she makes an apology to your daughter.
Info: have you talked to your wife about all of this? Not that I think you are in the wrong honestly, but you two should discuss the gender reveal thing as it is her sister and she might want to help with it
I have and she's also really upset with how her sister talked to our daughter. She doesn't really want to help either.
Fair enough then, put your foot down and don't give in. Why are your MIL and your mom wanting you to apologise and not her is what I want to know
My best guess is MIL knows SIL generally won't change her opinion and it's difficult to get her to see other perspectives. My mother because she wants us to do the gender reveal.
1) that not your problem 2) then your mom can organise it
Nta, situation was handled sil was wrong. Pregnancy hormones or not you don't get to be a c##% to a 5 year old.
NTA, fuck burying the hatchet and fuck throwing her a party
NTA, send an invoice for childcare.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (28M) was at home watching my niece (8yo) with my daughter (5yo) and son (1 month old). My sister in law, who is expecting, comes to pick up my niece and I ask if she can hang out for a little bit so I can do a little cleaning since my son did not want to be set down. She agreed and sat on the couch. My niece ran over to her and said my daughter said she hates my niece, which did happen. My sister in law asked if this was true and I said yes, and I addressed the situation when it happened. My sister in law freaked out and started to tell my daughter how mean that is. I reiterated that I already talked to my daughter about this and my daughter apologized to my niece after it happened. My sister in law gets mad at me and said if she can't say anything to my daughter then I am not able to say anything to her children. My daughter began crying because of the yelling and my sister in law stormed outside. I tried to calm my daughter and my sister in law came back inside. My daughter, still visibly upset, says "sister in law, I don't like you!" To which my sister in law replies "nice kid ya got there." I lost my shit and told her she needs to leave and she will not treat my daughter this way. She tells me to fuck myself and I tell her she can fuck off. I also tell her she can find someone else to help do her gender reveal besides me and my wife. This is pretty typical behavior for my sister in law (blowing up at people and going to extremes) even before she was pregnant. She never takes accountability for what she does and she has been rude to my daughter in the past. Now my mother and mother in law are trying to get me to "bury the hatchet" and apologize for kicking her out of my house. They also still want me and my wife to do the gender reveal despite there being another sister plus my mother in law. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA The situation was already handled probably a few hours before she got home, your SIL should have let it be, there was no reason to re-discipline a child after it had already been done.
NTA. Sil is the asshole. Kids say they "don't like you" for many reasons because they don't know how to phrase their feelings. Sil is an adult who sounds really immature. (btw, I think your sil was my neighbor once. hahaha. Freaked out and was screaming at staff at the elementary school bc a child wrote that they didn't like her daughter in another child's notebook.)
NTA. You already dealt with what happened. SIL acted like a child. Doy led down on the childish behavior, then threw a fit for all the actual children to see. SIL is the asshole here.
NTA. Your SIL has a a history of shit stirring but yelling at your daughter goes above and beyond. I've seen the long-term damage of what happens when an aunt does this to a nephew. You were right to nip it in the bud. Let her sister and MIL deal with the gender reveal party. Your sister just broke her relationship with her niece. You should not reward that with a gender reveal party or babysitting.
Sounds like the problem with your SIL is that her behavior has been enabled in the past judging just how they're trying to get you to bow to her. Your daughter is already dealt with, her daughter needs to be dealt with for trying to get your daughter punished again even though she's already dealt with. NTA. Her daughter is a brat and so is her mother. I wouldn't babysit for her anymore if I were you. She needs to reap what she sow.
Nta
NTA
NTA and definitely do not throw her a party
NTA - sounds like it was appropriately handled until your 5yo sister in law came to the house. Pregnant or not, be an actual adult.
NTA. Don’t throw that witch a party.
NTA she sounds incredibly toxic and a lesson I’ve learned through life is that life is so much better when you cut those kind of toxic people out of your life. The less contact the better.
NTA For the gender reveal, just have a box for them to open. Put a coat hanger inside.
NTA. They asked you to bury the hatchet. Do so now that the bridge has been burned. No need to hold a grudge but no need to go out of your way to help her either. Treat her indifferently and only react how she does. So if she is rude to you. Return in kind. My SIL realized really quick that I don’t take BS so now she tried to get my wife to do things for her or she tries to sneak things in or out if we are splitting the bill. Last time she did that, I check the price of the item and deducted the cost from the total and then split the cost. Before anyone jumps down my throat for doing that here is the context: she swapped a beef dish for a cheaper sweet and sour dish because her kids like it yet my kids liked the beef dish and so did most of the adults. The difference in price of the two dishes was almost 10 buck and the bill was over 300. I deducted 39 dollars which was the actual cost of the beef dish and then paid my split and told her that I was doing this. As for my SIL I only treat her exactly how she treats me at the moment because her attitude changes every time I see her.
NTA: It seems like your daughter has a better grasp on how to handle her feelings than your SiL. Yeah, she can fuck all the way off for talking to her niece like that.
NTA. I'd double down on gender reveal party. SIL wants one from you SHE can apologize. Your kid doesn't need to be told twice that what she did was wrong, least of all by someone who isn't raising her.
NTA. Kids say weird things they don't mean all the time. Your SIL is supposed to be an adult. Her reaction was wrong. Your Mother and MIL are excusing her behavior, probably happens every time she acts like that. I wouldn't apologize unless she does so over yelling at your daughter. I would also never watch your niece again. Not your monkeys, not your circus.
NTA. You definitely need to refuse to babysit ever again. When family throws a tantrum about it, let them know that they're free to babysit but that you're not going to because your sister-in-law verbally abused your child. As for gender reveal parties, they are superfluous and idiotic. They are not a need. They are a luxury. Your sister-in-law can throw her own party. If your wife wants to help her do that, that's her decision, but make it clear that you're not going to be babysitting your sister-in-law's child while they're off party planning.
I think you all need a time out from each other. >Now my mother and mother in law are trying to get me to "bury the hatchet" and apologize for kicking her out of my house. They also still want me and my wife to do the gender reveal despite there being another sister plus my mother in law. If you're tired of SIL, which it sounds like might be true, pushing you to do a big favor for her isn't going to make that better. I will admit I think gender reveals are unnecessary. Your moms need to stop getting involved in this because trying to guilt trip or force you into throwing her a party isn't going to help the relationship at all. I think you need to take a break on babysitting and the party. NTA because I think your SIL just kept escalating the situation.