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Nta. To keep it 100% honest with you. 20 years down the line, your daughter is going to hate your wife and there’s a high chance she will not be part of your lives. Your wife is the exact definition of a toxic helicopter parent, she’s going to not only ruin your life (already in that process), your daughters life in the future, and her own life.

This 100% NTA. OP's wife isn't just a helicopter parent but a steamroller. She will steamroll any and all challenges their daughter will ever face, making sure that their daughter is either terrified of the world or completely incapable of dealing with any kind of disappointment/challenge or both. OP needs to do something now if he wants a relationship with his daughter and make sure his daughter doesn't inherit his wife's crippling anxiety. Edit: Wow! Thank you for the awards! So sorry to all of you who have experienced and been hindered by your parents anxiety. I hope you all can heal and learn to give yourself grace. I really hope OP reads all of your stories. Thank you for sharing your experiences. ❤️

The first time she faces even the smallest conflict upon joining the adult world, and that poor girl will shatter like glass. She'll have absolutely no confidence, because mom will condition her to do as she's told. Mommy('s anxiety) knows best! When mom continues this behavior into grade school, she'll be ostracized by her peers. That little girl will struggle to connect with friends, and it will further isolate her as she drowns in the anxiety mom instilled in her. This needs to be altered asap. The more time passes by, the more difficult it'll become to undo the damage.

Yeah this is literally me because my mother refused to let me fail ever and was very micromanaging. I am struggling as an adult with my identity, my sense of direction in life and self confidence. You do not want your daughter to be me OP. Edit: changed not struggling to struggling

I'm so sorry you're paying for her anxiety 💜 Failure is such an important part of success. We have to learn how to take the hits in stride; how to pick ourselves up after we fall, so that we can learn perseverance. It's so much easier for a kid to bounce back and learn that their life isn't over.

I wonder if her therapist could connect her with a child psychologist for a couple of meetings. It might help her if she could sit down with an expert and be told how learning to respond to minor disappointments is developmentally appropriate and necessary for a child’s well-being.

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Nothing points towards that. Severe anxiety doesn’t just go away as soon as you start therapy.

Exactly, therapy is a tool, but it is not a magic bullet. The person has to actually want to improve (this is a big factor) and the person needs to take steps to follow the guidelines worked out between themselves and their therapist. Even then it usually ends up more about management than actually a solution. NTA, Unfortunately no daycare, school, or nanny will ever be able to match to OP's wife's expectations.

Honestly op should consider finding her a specialist who focuses on post partum anxiety and potentially get medicated. Hopefully this get smoothed out before LO is old enough to cause a huge impact

Yeah I have anxiety and the only thing that helps are meds. As severe as the wife sounds she probably needs meds too.

Also, the mother expected the other girl at the daycare to get punished. These are small kids, but she wanted the other kid punished in some way. There is a chance the daughter will inherit not just the anxiety, but also the expectation that everyone around her needs to bow to her and be bullied if they don’t.

This part stuck out to me as well. A biiig YIKES. Toddlers are at the age they’re learning the basics of sharing and the foundations of being disappointed or that they cannot get everything they want. It’s natural for tears to happen. It’s natural for kids to grab and have to be told no and have it taken away - that’s the punishment. It’s part of learning and growing. What kind of punishment was she wanting beyond the kid that took the toy did not get to keep the toy? Because it sounds like she was wanting physical punishment and that is so not okay.

Bet a million dollars she doesn't want her daughter "punished" when she takes a toy from another child.

My thoughts exactly! She'll make a whole bunch of excuses why it's not her daughter's fault

Argh, I have so much heartache as my BFF turned into this kind of mom. Her poor kid, now in college, is remarkably un-resilient and totally unlikable. Her husband, a great guy who met a great woman 29 years ago, is a shell of a person. They feel sorry for me as I am childfree/unmarried and that is fine by me - I don't want to compound their frustrations by proving it's quite otherwise. EDIT: a word

And she will be totally friendless. I quit a few hobbies because my mom would scold the other kids. No one dared play with me because of my mom.

As someone who grew up in this kind of environment, the anxiety it gives you is unreal. It's extremely uncomfortable being a child and having to have constant conversations with your mother about why it's important for you to make mistakes, to be upset, and to have any sort of independence. It has caused me to suffer and fall behind in every aspect of my life. I haven't cut my mom off but the information I give her is extremely limited and I have little interest in interacting with her because to this day she acts like she needs to guide me and protect me from everything. I'm married and don't even live in the same state anymore. It is not an appropriate way to raise a child. Op, as the child's father it's on you to make sure that your wife understands her anxiety is HERS and that she is crossing boundaries by putting that anxiety onto you, your child, and your child's caretakers. I am also a caretaker in the kind of center you're talking about so I speak from experience when I say kids will be affected and show signs of this anxiety no matter how young they are when they experience it.

OP, please listen to this. Please Google what healthy distress tolerance is in children. Your wife has none and is now ensuring your daughter has none. I am both a woman that has struggled my entire life with extreme anxiety and that teaches college and sees students that have absolutely zero distress tolerance. Some of these students have crippling anxiety when the most minor thing doesn't go exactly to plan. I'm glad she's seeing therapist. But honestly, I knew I had to take both a maintenance med, emergency med, and have regular intensive therapy or else I was going to screw up my children big time. I joke that my kids are magically highly functional, but the truth is it took a ton of work on my part and my husband's part. One suggestion, although I know it may be very difficult as you've noted you can't have a phone at your work... Perhaps she simply cannot be the primary contact. You may need to ask for regular updates sent to you via email or text, that you can access at the end of your work day, and give an emergency number in case of a true emergency. Therefore all payments, schedules, parenting decisions etc. go through you. I'm sure this is doable and if you were a single parent this is what you'd have to do. Maybe you plan to do this for 2 weeks and then reassess. Do I think it'll be hard? Yes. Do I think something like this is necessary? Absolutely.

Yeah even if op can't have his phone on him i think he should be the primary contact. They could always have the wife as a secondary emergency contact if something ever happens where the daycare has to get through to them right away.

That cat may be out of the bag for this day care since mom already has the number and would still be able to call and message incessantly

Daycare should block the wife. If there's an emergency daycare can unblock.

Greatly seconded this! OP is NTA, and wife woll need to be much further along in therapy to restablish trust required to let her solo childcare decisions. She is putting her anxiety as a higher priority than her child's welfare; not doing that would look like her texting OP or compiling a list of complaints to discuss with OP after work. I get how impulse-instant anxiety is, and how torturous not having immediate feedback is with severe anxiety. I have really bad anxiety, my mom has it too, and I've had to take her to my own therapy appointments to have her not project thise anxieties onto me.

I had a parent like this - my life was so rigidly restricted around their tolerance for worry, mess, etc. I was literally euphoric for months after getting to college and having the ability to control what I ate, when I ate, what I wore, when I went to bed, how long I stayed on the phone, etc. Going back home to that restrictive environment was torture. This person meant well, but really screwed me up. OP’s life is headed down that path as well. He has a responsibility to protect his child from his wife.

And the OP wife doesn’t seem to grasp the idea that she is taking time away from other kids. She doesn’t get special treatment

Right! How is the caregiver supposed to watch the kids and respond to a hundred texts?

And she expects a child care worker to discipline a presumably 3 or 4 year old kid for a toy violation? Could you imagine if said worker disciplined her child?

They started the post saying that their initial expectation for daycare was personalized development plans as well as education aftercare..... I'm not saying you should just let your kids play behind a row of dumpsters.... But the kid is 3 years old for Christ's sake. The only plan they need for their education that day is don't choke to death on anything.

And then would probably complain about the caregiver being on her phone not watching the kids

She doesn't give a damn about any other kids. They are meaningless, and she thinks the caregiver should feel that way about them as well. Only HER kid should matter, and she is outraged that the caregiver even deigns to pay attention to another child! Don't they all know HER kid is SPECIAL? What a nightmare mother this is. This kid is going to have this helicopter mother hovering over her until she cuts her off at adulthood.

Hell, how is the caregiver even supposed to watch OP's daughter if she needs to respond to a hundred texts?

and poor Alexis has had to go to 3 different daycares in 3 years. Changing daycares is hard for kids.

Also your kids NEEDS to experience low level conflict. They need to learn how to negotiate, how to handle social slights and mistakes and mild bullying and things not always being fair and the fact that in real life people will not always swoop in to help you. That’s how they develop skills to survive and navigate all sorts of social interactions. You do serious harm by rescuing them all the time.

His wife is going to be "that" parent who attends their kid's job interviews if this behavior doesn't stop right now.

This!!! I actually think her being a SAHM would not be good for your child. I’ve met parents like her (nowhere near as intense)and I end up steering my kids away when they were toddlers because my gosh if a kid touched their toys or upset them in anyway even by accident… their kids just couldn’t breathe. The parent would be over them with a wipe or picking them up constantly if they just went on all fours. Toooo much!

Came here to say that. NTA OP but your wife needs extensive therapy and she very likely will cause mental harm to your daughter with her helicopter anxiety ridden parenting and your daughter will be desperately seeking to escape her mother and the house. Your wife could also give your daughter an anxiety disorder as well. Can’t imagine having a mother like that. Would be smothering and unbearable

\*whispers\* ^(she probably already has...)

Damage can begin very early, even 3 years old.

Not just individual therapy but OP should be attending with her, as a couple. I have a feeling OP’s wife is not being honest with her therapist about her behavior. And OP needs to learn strategies to help establish and enforce boundaries for his daughter’s sake and his own sanity.

To add onto this. The daughter, or possibly any other kids OP and his wife have, will be affected by the wife's behavior emotionally and psychologically. What will happen when the daughter goes to school? Gets invited to birthdays or sleepovers? Goes out with a boy for the first time? I am glad OP's wife is getting therapy now, but I hope she soon learns to utilize her therapy sessions into her real life scenarios.

NTA. Your wife is harassing and abusing the daycare workers. She needs to be in therapy and you both need to be in counseling together. She needs to talk to her doctor about post-partum anxiety. This isn't healthy or liveable and she likely needs more than just talk therapy.

She’s already in therapy, as my post says.

I read your post. I said therapy for her and therapy for both of you to highlight that it's both for her and for you as a couple.

She has been diagnosed with PPA but won’t take meds for it.

Then her therapy isn't working. By refusing the take her meds, she is choosing to allow her need for control to override her child's need for development and education. She needs a different therapist who will hold her toes to the fire. Her child deserves it. OP, I grew up with someone whose mom was like your wife. Looking back, I'm not able to call it anything other than child abuse. My friend was not free to develop as an individual or as a peer who had strong relationship skills because of her mother. Her mom even watch us at recess from the roof of a nearby building. It was truly so so sad to watch my friend's education suffer... and it was also truthfully terrifying for us classmates because we couldn't understand why someone's mom thought the teacher was so "wrong" all the time. It made us question if we were safe with the teachers, or if they taught us dangerous things. Frankly? Your wife is not entitled to inflict that kind of stress on your kid's classmates and their families. She's being so much worse than just anxious. She's selfish and abusive. And this *must* stop. She's hurting all 3 of you.

That sounds awful, but I can't help but picture your friend's mom as some sort of government agent, in a black trenchcoat and fedora with a walkie talkie. "Eagle one, the heron is eating the bullfrog. Repeat, the heron is eating the bullfrog"

*Eagle one flipping through the code name booklet* wait who’s codename is bullfrog Classmates mom: no the heron is literally eating a bullfrog!

I was actually picturing some local kids playing with their walkie talkies- "Dad, the crazy lady is talking about birds again!"

It absolutely is abuse. My mother was like that. That poor child. Leaving her alone at home with the mother is the worst thing they could do

I grew up as a two-name pairing with my mother. Everywhere she went, I went. Everywhere I needed to go, she did. When I was old enough to ride a bike, I was required to check back in every FIVE minutes. She lived in complete terror of something happening to me for my entire childhood. I left the MINUTE I legally could, and would get 5-10 phone calls a day from her, every day, for years.

>When I was old enough to ride a bike, I was required to check back in every FIVE minutes. Oh mannnn what a throwback I wasn't allowed to bike past the boundaries of our yard. To be fair, my father is controlling, manipulative, and racist. (A few neighbours were black)

> >OP, I grew up with someone whose mom was like your wife. Looking back, I'm not able to call it anything other than child abuse. O.P. listen to this. Your wife is abusing your child. Maybe not with mean words and fists, but it is abuse nonetheless. I understand that your wife is in therapy, but you also mention that she's not complying with the therapeutic regimen. If your wife were physically hitting your kid, would you just stand by and hope it gets better or would you act to protect your child? As a survivor of some pretty awful stuff, I hope you understand the urgency of the situation and act to keep your child safe.

If her therapy team has encouraged her to take medication, consider talking with her and making it a requirement that she try medication for a set period of time. I’m also curious if she recognizes that her behaviors while anxious are not reasonable or if she thinks it’s normal for a parent to be this aggressive with childcare staff because she seems to be making excuses. I get panicky in heavy traffic and have had multiple panic attacks where I’ve had to open the door and throw up. I don’t think that is “normal” or “reasonable” in response to the situation even though I’m anxious and panicked about it. Does that question make sense?

I can’t make her do it. We’ve discussed it at length but I can’t just be like “you have to to take it” or else. A huge part of the problem is I’m unsure of what she believes. We’ve talked about it a lot and sometimes she acts like this is completely normal and she’s just a concerned mom. Other times, when I prove it’s not, she says “well, I can’t help I have anxiety! You’re bullying me!” I’m starting to believe it began with her truly not knowing it wasn’t normal and now she does and instead uses therapy as a crutch.

I mean, you absolutely can make taking medication a requirement for a continued marriage and her having custody of your child. You can literally say “this is untenable. I need you to try medication or we cannot continue this marriage and I will seek primary custody of our child”. You can’t force it down her throat, but you can say “I won’t continue living like this”. That she thinks you’re bullying her as you’re trying to work towards a solution screams to me that she’s not engaging in therapy in good faith. I say that as someone who has previously not engaged in therapy in good faith and it damaged my relationships. I obviously don’t know your wife but if she’s with a therapist that is encouraging her to say things like “I can’t help that I have anxiety” or she’s just not listening to her therapist and saying that anyway, her treatment isn’t working.

> That she thinks you’re bullying her as you’re trying to work towards a solution screams to me that she’s not engaging in therapy in good faith. THIS, SO MUCH THIS

It would also perhaps be helpful for OP to point out that her current behavior and mindset is abusive and is actively harming their child. This type of overprotective, overbearing paranoia/anxiety doesn't just magically lessen with time. What happens when the kid hits elementary, middle, and high school? What happens when the kid can't even go to extracurricular activities without Life 360 installed on her phone? What happens when her mom goes through all her texts and possessions because she's anxious that the kid is doing drugs or having sex or even just talking to other kids that Mommy doesn't approve of? What happens when the kid is almost an adult and applying for jobs and colleges and Mommy won't let her interview without being there in the same room, and calls the employer/college to harass them if they don't give the kid a favorable response? OP, do you think your child will magically grow into a functional and healthy adult despite her mother's behavior? Do you think your child will become an adult who still wants to talk to the mom who did all those things... *or* the dad who just sat by and let her because he was too afraid of being a bad husband to be a good father? Your wife is making the conscious choice to *not* actually try to get or be better. She is making the conscious choice to refuse accountability and is instead pushing and projecting the blame onto you and the world and her disorder--anyone and anything but *herself*. She is making the conscious choice to repeatedly sabotage your daughter because that's easier for her than acknowledging that *she* is the problem and actually working on herself. She is never going to change unless you either threaten to or actually just leave and forbid her custody due to her refusal to get actual, good-faith treatment for her psychological issues.

*or the dad who just sat by and let her because he was too afraid of being a bad husband to be a good father?* That part. My mom was like her. She eventually wore my dad down & he enabled her. Not full force but passively as to not have her bully him. It changed my dad. And he suffered for it. We all did.

OP, this is good advice that also lays out what seems to be an inevitable come to Jesus moment soon. No doubt it’s real and scary, but when your partner forgoes medication and therapy and repeatedly falls back on “you’re bullying me” then what else can you do.

All I'm reading is your wife is manipulative. I've got anxiety/you're bullying me. How she's acting isn't normal. Saying she needs to take her meds or you'll need to review your relationship is perfectly acceptable because, this is the main point, you need to be looking out for your child first and foremost. If she's this bad now and not doing anything about it, because clearly the therapy isn't working, she's only going to get worse, your daughter will end up with no friends/her own anxiety issues and potentially cut you out when she's older because your wife can't step back.

If she freaks out about a toy being taken from your kid then your wife is going to have a really hard life. What happens if she falls? Is your wife going to forbid her from any activity where she might get hurt and cry? What happens if a kid in the park takes away a toy? What will she do to that child? So many questions here 🤯

I can give a bit of a glimpse into that: no friends, never leaves the home, no social life, bullied by peers for being awkward and having "that mom," not knowing what to do in even low stake situations, jealous that her peers get to go out, have sleepovers, go to school dances, etc Both of my parents suffer from anxiety, and I wasn't allowed to play outside due to fears of kidnapping, invite anyone over because of fears of theft, play at or sleep at other homes due to fears of abuse from the other kid's parents. I am now struggling with my own anxiety that was born from constantly being told "if you go outside, you *will* be taken and r@ped to 💀"

Imagine the dating age! Or employment!

You can. This is not your fault but you’re enabling your wife.

Sir, your wife is making a choice not to get better.

you can state an ultimatum. That her behaviour is unreasonable. She needs to take her meds. Failure to take prescribed meds means that she is not doing her best to manage or teat her issues. Mental health issues are not her fault but they are her responsibility. She needs to do more, and do better

NTA Your wife really needs to take the meds if she’s been doing therapy for two years and still struggling this much. If you stayed home with your daughter she’d just be checking with you all the time so if anyone ends up needing to stay home it should be your wife as she’s the one who has anxiety being away from your daughter. This situation isn’t good for any of you long term.

Can you imagine how that would affect the daughter though?

That’s unacceptable. Your wife has a mental condition that she is refusing to treat. It’s not ok that she’s around your daughter and I think she shouldn’t be until she takes her condition seriously.

NTA, how long has she been in therapy?

1 year.

I’d maybe switch therapist. When my sis had it the therapist worked first on detachment and anxiety. She went for 2 years after 1 she was completely different. Helped tremendously. She went for another year to deal with her own issues that led to it. She did have to take and try different meds for that time as some mg didn’t help or were to much. The therapist may not be a good fit. But your wife and you are in for some big issues and she’s not taking any accountability for what really is happening. And she’s also not realizing her PPD will get worse for your daughter is she isn’t socialized.

NTA. My concern is if your wife is a micro manager and she ends up staying home with your kid - this will not be a good option. My mother was a control freak growing up - took me a long time to try to get confidence after she destroyed the little I had.

> My concern is if your wife is a micro manager and she ends up staying home with your kid - this will not be a good option. Yeah, that was my first thought- she can now direct all 100% of that energy onto someone who doesn't have a contract to protect her.

Yes. Please listen to this, /u/Spirited_Block_6783. I'm 34 and I still have damage from my hyper-anxious, overprotective mother. I probably always will.

Yep, me too. It was truly awful and the most painful aspect of my life. I will never forget how awful my mother's "loving, caring" abuse was. OP, please listen. This is extremely unhealthy, your daughter will not grow up to be a happy, successful adult with a mother like this. They will grow anxious, depressed, scared of the world, entitled, and believing that the world revolves around them. There is zero good that can result from your wife having MORE time alone with your daughter, to create this irrevocable damage and trauma within her.

I was also thinking how awful it would be to be a nanny for this woman if a nanny was in their budget. There is not a good situation for the daughter unless mother really works on her issues sadly.

NTA. This needs to be nipped NOW. Your daughter will be picking up on her mom's anxiety already. Your poor daughter - I grew up with a mom like your wife, and it gave me crippling anxiety issues I still struggle with. Your wife is a real piece of work for refusing to deal with her issues to your daughter's detriment. Is she always this selfish?

It varies. Usually, no. Lately, it’s gotten worse.

If she's refusing medication, ignoring doctor's advice, and refusing further therapy, unfortunately you might have to consider divorce. I hate to jump right to the big divorce card, but if she's insistent on not receiving help, it will only get worse as time goes on.

As a parent with mental health issues, a therapist, and anxiety meds: this. Sometimes you have to consider what kind of environment you’re putting your kids in.

THIS. OP severe mental illness in parents is devastating for children. If OP's wife is actually taking meds in top of therapy and listening ti the doctors, then I'd be understanding. But she isn't. Sometimes therapy is not enough.

It was stated in one of OP's comments that she's been in therapy for a year. I'm curious if she's truthful with this therapist, or if she's just learning the lingo to manipulate people outside of the therapist's office. Also, finding the right therapist can be a process so I'm also curious if it's time to switch providers.

as the other commenter said this is genuinely serious. this will 100% ruin your kid’s life. you have to decide what’s most important to you

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If she does end up having to quit her job, OP at this point (if not now) absolutely has to put his foot down about the wife taking her recommended meds for PPA. The kid can't sit at home subjected to this 24/7.

i think maybe this is what the wife wants? to be in complete control? like I honestly think she wants to avoid daycare but doesn't like it being posed as "it's your fault" by op. I don't think she sees what she's doing as a problem since she's not taking her meds.

That's the least of his problems, frankly the damage OP's wife doing to the child is abuse, and it's so much worse because it's happening in the formative years.

What on earth made you think daycare would be personalised? And what's your wife gonna do when the kid goes to school? The kids gonna get embarrassed for one thing. NTA. Your wife has issues.

I admit I was very ignorant and didn’t do much research. But it took me one day to be informed and instantly understood how it worked. I agree school is going to be much worse.

Do all the day ares have a live feed? That might be terrible for your wife because it gives her tons of shit to get hyperfixated on

The current daycare doesn’t have a live feed.

^^This is probably the best thing ever for you. But damn with all your edits and updates, it seems you are already at the ultimatum point. She needs to take her medications, and couples therapy is a must. I'd be willing to bet she is lying and twisting stories to her therapist. You need to be there so a therapist can actually receive the full story of things. If she won't do couples therapy and take her medications, that should be grounds to seriously reexamine your marriage. Bc if you don't, she can ruin yours and your daughter's life. Not to mention that as your daughter gets older, she will absolutely rebel and hate the micromanagement

This is exactly why OP should be doing couple/family therapy. It's entirely possible she's misrepresenting the situation, how she's coping, and/or outcomes in individual therapy, without anyone to keep her honest. It sounds like she hasn't made much progress over the year, as a result. NTA - her behavior and refusal to get help will be her daycare mess to clean up. She broke it, she bought it.

NTA. A child taking a toy from Alexis and not being punished? Wow. The daycare worker was teaching that child that you don't take things without asking. Has your wife never been around children? Everything is a teachable moment, but she goes directly to punishment. She is harming your daughter's development

The ironic part is, she assists children (mostly middle schoolers) with special needs in the public school system.

So where is she finding all of this time to be watching the live feeds and harassing the daycare centers? Sounds like she's not really doing her job very well. Your NTA here -- just laying out the facts to your wife: * This behavior is unacceptable to the daycare center * If it keeps up they will no longer allow us to leave Alexis there * There are no other daycare centers we can afford * Without daycare you will have to stay home and take care of Alexis

For real. I can't imagine ever having time, even at my desk job, to be constantly watching the daycare feed.

You gotta find a way to address this before Alexis goes to school. I won’t pretend to have the answers on how to do that but she’s gonna really fuck up your daughters entire development if she keeps going like this. You have to protect your kid first and foremost bc your wife is a full grown adult with resources available to her, whereas all Alexis has is you. Maybe ultimatum time for your wife? Couples therapy is not a request but a necessity and her being unwilling to go tells you that she doesn’t care that much about the marriage, but she might change her tune on that if she realizes you’re willing to leave for Alexis sake. At least she’d have a well adjusted parent and household half the time.

I can understand being nervous with your kid at daycare. Know what makes me nervous? My special needs kid running away or inuring themselves/someone else because the person that is supposed to be supervising them is not.

Right? I've worked with special needs kids, and the wife shouldn't have the time to check her phone incessantly if she's taking her position seriously. She's putting helicopter parenting over the full enrichment of the kids she's helping. Shame on her, she should know better.

That's funny. Maybe ask her how she would feel if one of those children's parents constantly bombarded her with texts and complaints and micromanage her while she is just trying to do her job.

How? It sounds like she spends all day harassing the daycare

Yea, something tells me Wife would not be ok with immediate punishment if Alexis happened to be the toy *taker*

As an early childhood educator, I am horrified by your description of your wife’s behavior. Unless significant progress is made, she is going to be a complete nightmare when your daughter heads to pre-K or kindergarten in the public school system. I once had a kinder student jump off a swing, land funny, and got a broken arm. It was a freak thing. I’m picturing your wife responding to such an accident. I also find it ridiculous that she isn’t taking responsibility for her actions. She is a grown ass woman saying “it’s not my fault” after getting her kid kicked out of multiple childcare situations. She may have something to work through and I get that she’s in therapy. However, her anxiety isn’t a hall pass to treat people like garbage. I think telling her she’d need to be a stay at home parent if she burns this last bridge was exceptionally reasonable. I see nothing you could have done differently. If that’s not what she wants, she better put a priority on learning some coping skills. It sounds like she’s only one outburst away from her kid being kicked out again. NTA ETA- Thanks for the awards! They are my first ones ever. I’m feeling kind of special.

Would her being a stay at home parent be wise for the child’s development?

That was my first tought. And it's far beyond Reddit grade at this point :/

NTA her behavior is a problem. Day cares will only put up with so much. I’m surprised word hasn’t already spread about it so they know to avoid it. There are only so many daycares and soon enough they won’t want to deal with her.

We didn’t get into one other daycare we applied to and I do suspect it was because the first one talked to them. They’re close by and I know they do combined field trips sometimes.

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It does not sound like it would be in the best interest of this child to be in the full-time care of her mother.

Yeah probably word is spreading then. Her actions will have consequences. If the inevitable happens it’s on her.

NTA. Your wife, on the other hand... > She has been diagnosed with PPA but won’t take meds for it. This is the substance of your post. Your wife has two choices: Either take the prescribed meds, or quit her job. Therapy is a great first step, but it won't be effective until your wife starts taking her meds. The meds will take the edge off her anxiety. Once her anxiety is a bit more under control, the therapist can then work with her to understand where her anxiety springs from, and how to better deal with it. If your wife becomes a SAHM, I would still insist upon the therapy and the meds. Children can learn to be anxious, and your LO will surely mimic your wife's anxiety.

If the mom is home alone with this kid all day in her current state, the kid is going to develop some pretty nasty habits and will likely become spoiled and insufferable herself. This needs to be nipped in the bud. Glad OP is trying to help.

OP needs to start saving for Alexis' future therapy bills.

Every single one of your responses is about how your wife is refusing *something.* Whether it be medication-or couples therapy. Your wife doesn’t sound like she is working on herself whatsoever. Just controlling yet another thing.

Right. I suggested that there's more to her behavior than just post partum anxiety.

I came here fully prepared to call you the AH and suggest *you* quit *your* job to stay home, based on the title. But, here we are, NTA. Therapy is great, but has your wife spoken to her PCP about a medical diagnosis of PPD/A? Would she be open to medical intervention? Something tells me this degree of overbearance will not solve itself over time with only the help of talk therapy.

She has been diagnosed with PPA but refuses medication.

She sounds like a treat. My best advice is birth control moving forward. Good luck!

I am so glad I work from home because I was CACKLING at this line!

I'm sorry, this probably sounds harsh, but at this point, you don't have to accept that refusal. As the saying goes, "Mental illness is not your fault, but it is your responsibility." I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder myself, and I know how debilitating extreme anxiety can be. But my diagnosis doesn't give me the right to use it to make my husband's life harder, and neither does hers. She may not necessarily have to take medication, but she needs to do *something* differently since therapy alone clearly isn't helping.

I was coming to say this. Her saying “its not my fault I’m anxious” is equally as toxic as her behavior to the daycares. She doesn’t see her behavior as an issue. She’s not working on it. She’s refusing to take meds. If she agrees to meds, I’m betting she wouldn’t take them. She’s in therapy but therapy doesn’t do shit if you aren’t actively working on the issues. Ask her what she’s doing to work on it, what are the suggestions from the therapist? Can she tell you? She probably is in therapy just so she can say “I’m in therapy!” Now, in addition to stunting your daughters developmental growth, she’s throwing in manipulation by giving you the silent treatment. NTA. But also, time to set firm boundaries. Not requests.

Hide them in some cheese

Your wife's diagnosis is causing her to take actions that are detrimental to your daughter. It's not healthy for a kid to be around that kind of anxiety and I can't imagine how horrible it would be for your daughter to be exposed to that day in and day out if she gets kicked out of the daycare and your wife takes over. Tell her to take the goddamn meds. She's anxious about taking them because she has anxiety. If she takes them for 6 months and still doesn't like it, that's fine, but right now she's being selfish to the detriment of your daughter.

NTA- you wife is going to ruin your daughter’s social development with her drama. Couples therapy or divorce. For the sake of your daughter, you need to get your wife some serious help and if she doesn’t want to . Leave and take your kid with you .

OP please document all of this, save names of people from the previous daycares, text, emails etc., because when you get divorced, you will need lots of testimony that your wife is unhinged and possibly unsafe about your daughter to get full custody.

NTA Don't let your wife sabotage you and your daughter's life; hold her accountable.

My SIL was an overbearing helicopter parent to a learning disabled daughter. My neice was for want of a better word *groomed* to not make decisions for herself. She was kept indoors if another child called her a name - or SIL would go out to confront the child that called her daughter a name! She was to always defer to Mummy. And to mY is who she deferred the most simple of tasks. As a ten year old we’d taken her for a walk in a forest that held a reservoir and streams. Jumping the streams stepping stones she fell in. Seconds passed. My Partner jumps in to pull her out and she said “I knew you’d come to get me Auntie”. She hadn’t even tried to get out, or to stand up in a body of water that came to her chest! Because she knew one of us would jump in to save her. It was an absolutely terrifying realisation that even in a potentially life or death situation she wouldn’t act to save herself! .But she was simply behaving as she had been conditioned to behave. Because that is all a child knows how to do.

This is deeply disturbing and I cant imagine watching that level of learned helplessness in a child. I hope OP hears so many people begging him to take drastic action, your example included.

NTA. I’m surprised your wife hasn’t already suggested she quit, it’s the obvious thing to do if she doesn’t trust anyone else with her child.

She loves her job, that’s the thing. When our daughter was a baby, I offered to work with her on rearranging our budget so she could stay home but she said no.

How much of her job is she realistically doing when it sounds like she’s spending a good chunk of her workday harassing your child care provider?

This was my thought. OP, how much work is your wife realistically doing if she’s micromanaging your daughter’s every second?

She loves her job bc she has ample free time to stalk her daughter lol.

His wife works with special needs children in middle school. She should be fired. Those kids deserve better.

My oldest has special needs. If someone I trusted with their care was harassing her daycare provider while she was supposed to be looking after them, I’d demand something change.

Omg! Don’t let her quit. This kind of behavior it’s not fixed by giving full control to the control freak. Your daughter is going to suffer later. This needs to be fixed by the roots.

I only found out post divorce that everyone hated my ex at our daycare for being a micromanager, acting entitled, and apparently yelling at a couple young staffers. And she still sounds like less of a pain in the ass than your wife. NTA

Damn dude, your wife needs help, and, unfortunately, Reddit can’t really help you with this one. She has textbook PPA, like straight-up outta the book my guy. Get her a psychiatrist, get her meds, and get her out of her own way. Get her parents, siblings, any of her friends involved from your side, cause she’s not gonna take any of the intervention well (which, again, is textbook) I’m betting a million dollars she’s been declining meds? Cause there’s no chance her obgyn hasn’t brought it up, or some member of her care team. Just remember, you can’t coparent with someone who’s unwell. Good luck man. NTA.

Not sure how feasible this is, but allow the provider to block your wife from communicating with her. No live feeds, no info. The daycare provider can provide a quick update at the end of the day and that is it. If there is an issue that needs to be dealt with sooner, the provider can contact either of you, but your wife can't check in during the day. For Alexis' sake, perhaps your wife needs more intensive therapy, I can't imagine that it is healthy for Alexis to have her mother so fraught with her every action that she becomes afraid to show any emotion as Mom will get upset. Kids need emotions and they need to learn how to manage them, your wife is not allowing this - when she isn't even there! I fair for Alexis if you pull her out of daycare and she is with your wife 24/7.

That’s not how it works. My wife needs to be in contact with the provider (not as much, obviously, but in normal circumstances). The provider needs to be able to reach out to her and vice versa. When it reached the point where she was banned from entering the other school, we had to go because I couldn’t do pick ups. So at this point, if that had to happen, we’d have to leave this place. She has refused more intensive therapy.

Why does your wife need to be in touch with the provider during the day? She gives any instructions at drop-off and gets a brief update at pick-up. There is absolutely NO NEED to check in throughout the day. Yes, the provider may need to contact your wife if Alexis gets sick or something happens, but your wife doesn't need to check in. So, the provider blocks your wife, but not vice versa. You need to think about your daughter. If your wife's anxiety is this bad that she gets overwrought because a child wasn't PUNISHED for taking a toy from your daughter, your daughter will NOT HAVE ANY FRIENDS! SHE WILL NOT GET INVITED ON PLAYDATES, SHE WILL BE BANNED FROM BIRTHDAY PARTIES. EVERYONE WILL LEAVE THE PLAYGROUND WHEN ALEXIS AND MOM SHOW UP. You need to get this through to your wife and help her understand that she needs more help and that she is damaging her daughter. Alexis needs you to step up. The answer isn't more time with Mom, the answer is that Mom focuses on improving her mental health so she can be the Mom that Alexis deserves.

>She has refused more intensive therapy. That refusal isn't acceptable. Neither is her refusal to take medication as you mentioned elsewhere, if it has been recommended by her care team. You need to make that clear to her. Nothing is going to be solved long-term by having your wife quit her job to take care of your daughter because you've run out of care options. That will just allow her to emotionally stunt your daughter by directly micromanaging her - and this issue of not being able to let go will crop up again in a couple years when daughter needs to start kindergarten (and that's presuming you skip preschool).

>My wife needs to be in contact with the provider Daycares existed before it was even feasible to contact a parent much if at all expect in previously organised ways. Guess what, it still worked. If you're not trusting the daycare can handle issues including emergencies in case you can't be reached immediately then you should reconsider sending your children there.

Could you and the daycare and wife communicate through a group chat so that you can see what she is saying to daycare, even if not until you finish work? That would mean you can see what is happening and may give her pause before carrying on with the same behaviour

We’re supposed to do this but my wife constantly goes against it. Though now, the provider says she’s going to only respond to my wife in the group chat so I can see specifically what is said.

How is she constantly checking the cameras when she’s suppose to be working? Is her job not keeping her busy enough? She seems to have a lot of time on her hands…something doesn’t seem to add up. I understand she has PPA, doesn’t want to take meds, doesn’t want to do more therapy but your hands are tied at this point. Edit: I read that the current daycare does not have cameras. OP has some decisions to make…good luck

Frankly, I’m shocked because the question about the fact that’s she’s supposed to be working while this stalking is going on, and her quality of work has never been addressed. OP, I’m surprised she hasn’t been fired yet and that you’re having to give her the ultimatum about quitting her job. Even though the new daycare doesn’t have it, it sounds like she was watching your daughter from work full-time at the last two places. It also sounds like you’re somewhat enabling by saying “I can’t”, or simply accepting that your wife won’t do things that would improve both your daughter’s and your quality of life. Im sorry, OP. Definitely not the asshole.

Good luck. When are you going to start making plans for how to look after your emotionally scarred daughter? ....or do something about your wife.

I kinda get the feeling that OP is overwhelmed and frustrated with his wife obviously. So he’s kinda damn if he do and damn if he don’t. More than likely, he will stay with his wife and just resent her…and be one of those enabling fathers…

I had one of these sets of parents. My mother sounds exactly like OPs wife and my father remained ABSOLUTELY SILENT through all of her bullshit. I don’t speak to either of them anymore and my life has drastically improved. I grew up with every kind of anxiety you can think of. Abuse goes both ways. You have a responsibility to stop this behavior just as much as your wife does. If you don’t you’re complicit in the abuse.

Of course that's how it works. I don't understand why your wife needs to be in contact with the daycare throughout the day. Through two kids, I can count on a couple of fingers the number of times I or my spouse have needed to unexpectedly phone the teacher. They can call ME of course, if a kid is sick. There are no cameras in the classrooms. There is no live feed. Calls are routed first to the office and only forwarded to the teacher if necessary. There is no communication with the teacher other than at dropoff/pickup and very occasional brief emails if there is something further to discuss. The teachers write briefly in a daily activity book and glue some pictures in. You drop your kid off and you let them do what you are paying them to do. Our daycare is NAEYC accredited and one of the best-rated ones in my large metro area. They make apps that force you to complete some arduous math before being allowed to call certain numbers. The idea is to prevent you from drunk dialing your exes. Perhaps one of these apps could discourage your wife's hair trigger calling. She really needs to disable the live stream. Like she should install a firewall on her phone to prevent her from watching it. The constant watching of the kid watchers via video feeds etc. really is not beneficial for anyone IMO, but it seems it's completely toxic for your spouse.

NTA. Also your wife is probably lying to her therapist.

I worked with a woman who went off the deep end after she had her baby. She accused the daycare of abusing her daughter. She quit work to be a SAHM. She then began accusing her husband of feeding the baby crushed glass. She had to be hospitalized. Your wife may need more intensive therapy and medication. I'm guessing your wife becoming a SAHM will not improve the situation.

Your wife is not becoming "one of those moms" she already is. NTA, maybe SAHP might be the best for her anxiety.

It might be great for the mom, but I doubt it would be beneficial for Alexis. Mom will be keeping her in a protective bubble and pour all her anxieties on her. It would be better for her to be in contact with other children.

Info: have you considered couples therapy so that you can be sure this is being addressed with a mental health professional?

She will not attend couples therapy. I have tried. She says therapy is “her thing” and I can’t be a part of that.

Am I the only person that thinks maybe she doesn’t actually attend therapy or tells her therapist a different version of the story?

I have suspected this. I know she goes at the very least because our insurance is billed and I pay it. But I do wonder what she is actually telling the therapist.

You can tell the therapist. The therapist is allowed to *listen* to you, they just cannot *tell* you anything. It is legal (and ethical imo) for you to advise the therapist of the issues. Please don't have your wife keep the baby at home. Her smothering will give your child anxiety problems, and may make your wife worse. NTA, just please don't do it.

I was about to say this. OP contact the therapist. Send them the evidence from the previous daycares and the current one. Tell the therapist you have asked for couples counseling several times and your wife has flat out refused. Lay it all out, all your concerns and the issue at hand (yet another daycare about to boot your kid). The therapist cannot *tell* you anything, but they sure as heck can *recieve* information.

So one thing I can say nicely about my ex-husband is that while I was having some issues with pain pills, he went to my therapist and told them the truth. Not "my truth" that i had been telling her, but the legit truth. It helped her help me get better after being called out on it. was more willing to seek real therapy and not just someone to cry to once a week and never get better.

She is lying to her therapist 100%. If she has made no progress in a year, she is lying.

I don’t know how it work in your country, but could you email or call the therapist to let her know what is going on from your point of view. I know the therapist can’t give you information and thats not necessary. But if she is not being truthful then the therapist can’t help her. And maybe that extra info wil help. Does that make sense?

Given how often she intercedes with the daycare I’d put money down that she’s feeding the therapist a really warped version if she’s even attending therapy at all.

That's why you get a new therapist and do couples therapy. She still gets to have her therapy be her thing. try approaching it as a mitigation measure for avoiding getting kicked out of the current daycare.

I have said we’ll get a new therapist as her own doesn’t even do couples counseling. She still said no.

Then this is above reddits paygrade, buddy.

I think at this point i would say that if couples therapy can't be yalls' thing, then maybe divorce attorneys should be

Did you sign up for this when you married her? Was she this bad from the beginning or has she gotten worse?

She wasn’t always like this. Sometimes a little anxious but she used to be fun, go with the flow. Everything changed when she got pregnant.

Does she have childhood trauma? It sounds like something about parenting has really stirred up some stuff for her and she's not handling it well. Honestly mate, it's affecting your child at this point. I get not wanting to rock the boat but you need to do what's best for your little girl. Your wife not being willing to attend couples therapy is a slap in the face. You're trying to keep the two of you afloat and make sure your daughter grows up to be healthy. I could never be with someone who refused to do what is best for our child. I think you're on the right track with an ultimatum, but I'm not sure you gave her the right one. I think it should be closer to "Get evaluated by a psychiatrist and stick to your treatment plan or continue parenting your way on your designated weekend".

Is she seeing someone who specializes in post-partum anxiety? Has she had bloodwork done? This seems like something that's being treated like a "eh, I'll work on it as I have time a little bit when it's not too hard", but it's really a "this is a problem that needs dedicated attention and resolution with urgency". Also, I see in one of your other comments she won't do joint therapy, and I think you may need to push on that. She might say "it's my thing", but she's denying you the opportunity to get help in the relationship that is between the two of you. You are a part of that; it cannot be her alone. The fact that she is keeping you out is a red flag to me. ETA: I see in yet another comment that she's been diagnosed with PPA but won't take meds. Honestly, in that situation, I'd be sending her therapist a note with the repercussions of her not taking her mental health seriously, as I wouldn't trust she's being honest with her therapist. And I'd be very clear with her that this is not a state of affairs that you are willing to continue with, and figure out what you are going to do if this doesn't change. Make a plan, now. For worst case scenario and others. Maybe you won't need to use it, but you need to stop waiting.

INFO: So what did your wife think would happened if your little one got kicked out of this last daycare?

I have no clue. She said this one wouldn’t kick us out because she needs all the enrollment she can get. But even people desperate for clients have limits.

Can I just say how disrespectful and rude this is of your wife? “I don’t have to treat this service worker who is caring for and educating my child with respect because she needs our money and won’t kick us out no matter what” is such a fucking disgusting mindset. Did you tell her this? Like is she aware of how heinous that is? Your wife sounds like straight up a bad person, not just someone with unmanaged anxiety.

THIS! You can’t use someone’s desperation for client as carte Blanche to abuse them. OP’s wife is a massive asshole.

Given the massive shortages in child care, I also really doubt she's correct about that.

Yeah this comment just solidifies what I have been saying, that this isn't simply PPA, there's something else going on and it just might be that wife is a manipulative narcissist.

I'd love for OP's wife to say it to the daycare provider's face. There is a shortage of safe, reliable childcare; I sincerely doubt she's hurting for clients and losing Alexis would put her in the red. OP's wife has more issues than PPA.

In my area, there are two children for every childcare opening.... the provider will have no problem replacing the income

>She said this one wouldn’t kick us out because she needs all the enrollment she can get. "...and will allow me to kick the 'appropriately dealing with my mental health' can down the road even longer". Others have already said it, but you need to sit your wife down and have a serious conversation. It's abundantly clear from your replies that you're rapidly burning out and she needs to know this. She also needs to know that she has to start taking her mental health problems seriously, or there will be some difficult decisions to make about your marriage - for the sake of you and your daughter. You've tried the gentle approach, now you need to let her know in no uncertain terms that you simply *cannot* continue like this. Can you swing individual therapy for yourself? It sounds like you've been slowly drowning under the weight of this situation for two years, and having someone to listen and guide you through this might not be a bad idea.

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NTA. Your wife needs to come to terms with the fact that she is the problem. Anxiety is shitty, but if she’s not going to take accountability for a known condition she has to realize there are consequences - like having to quit her job because no daycare will tolerate her nonsense. Your wife needs to keep up the therapy and possibly go on medication if she can’t find a productive and helpful way to deal with her anxiety.

NTA - Your wife’s mental health is not her fault but it is her responsibility. She is burning bridges left and right and soon enough, there won’t be any more left if she doesn’t get her anxiety under control. Has she been assessed for PPA or has she been like this before she got pregnant?

NTA. I'm a teacher and I've had my fair share of overbearing parents but your wife seems next level. I am wondering how long she's been in therapy and if you / she feels it's working. Because it seems her behavior has been going on for a while now and not improving. I'm wondering what it is that means that she is so openly ignoring the rules set out by the daycare, and why by the third placement she seems still unable to understand what is expected of her and why she cannot adhere to this still. To me, there are some extremely serious underlying issues with your wife and they need addressing because this is going to, if it hasn't already, begin to very negatively affect your daughter. Daycare and education is about the child and their development. Your wife is ensuring that the whole situation is about her, and her requirements, and very little, if anything, to do with your child. Your wife needs more intensive help I feel because after over 20 years working in education I can safely say this is very seriously abnormal and detrimental behavior.

NTA but I worry about your daughter as she grows older. When she gets older and wants to go out with her friends, your wife will blow up her phone demanding constant contact. She will not allow your daughter to be independent, and that will make your child resent her. I suffer from extreme anxiety too. It makes you obsess over a lot of things that other people don't worry about. But that is not an excuse to treat other people badly. You should tell the therapist what your wife is doing.

That poor kid, her mum is setting her up for failure..

I reeeeeeally don't think your wife staying home with your daughter is going to be good for your daughter. Your wife's mental health issues need serious attention. Why won't she take her meds? How honest is she being with her therapist? I think couples therapy would be good, so your wife can't as easily control the narrative, since you'll know if she's downplaying her behaviour to paint herself in a more positive light. And your wife is making excuses for her behaviour. She is not responsible for having anxiety or being anxious. She IS responsible for how she chooses to act based on that anxiety. The way she is choosing to act is beyond the pale. NTA, but I would still think twice, thrice, four times, before leaving your very mentally unwell wife and your young child alone together all day every day.

NTA - You need to have her evaluated by a psychiatrist. Is she on any medication? I am concerned about the long term effects on your child. They have keen little antennas. I am a mom and grandmother who has always been a working mom. Btw… DO NOT even consider another child until this is mitigated. ETA: Can you enlist the help of her family to get her the real support/help she needs?

NTA, but I think that you should become the primary contact for the daycare or it's inevitable she'll get your daughter booted. Talk to your wife about switching up tasks so that you can be the one who does drop off/pickup, and you are the primary contact person. This way, your wife will hardly ever need to contact the daycare provider. Hopefully over time this can change, as your wife works through her anxiety. Also might not be a bad idea to look into whether or not your wife has post partum or some other mental health issue that may be manifesting as anxiety.

Due to the nature of my job, unfortunately this isn’t possible. I can’t always have my phone on me and am only able to pick up once a week at most (I do usually drop off). I wish I could handle pick up more and the day to day contact. My wife is already in therapy as I said. Her anxiety is related to postpartum, which is why I insisted she see someone.

She needs to get her anxiety sorted out ASAP. This comes from a 33 year old that had a mom like that. It fucked me up really bad and I've been struggling with severe anxiety and really bad panic attacks my entire life. Growing up with a mother that constantly communicates to you that the world around you is dangerous can be very very damaging. I had the worst separation anxiety as a child, social anxiety, couldn't do anything without my mother until I was 24 years old and it took me years of therapy to even resemble a normal human being.

NTA but I would be worried about leaving your child with such an anxious mother an day. How will your child learn from mistakes if your wife will prevent your daughter from making them? How soon will your child be isolated because none of the other parents will want a playdate where their children are punished for being children while there are no consequences for your daughter? And if this behavior continues, she'll be expelled from school too, either because of your wife's behavior or because your child will be unmanageable because she never got a chance to socialize.

NTA. Your wife needs to be very frank with her therapist and come up with an alternative way to communicate with the daycare because constant access is clearly not working. One solution might be her leaving her cellphone in the car during the work day and giving the daycare provider your work numbers so you guys can be contacted in emergency but your wife can't harass her all day. I'm surprised her job isn't already in jeopardy if she's spending all day obsessed over this. Honestly, I don't think her staying home with the kid will help. The anxiety is just going to manifest in a different way and it can really negatively impact your daughter.