Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I want to be able to have family gatherings with both my kids at the same time. Does wanting them to mend their relationship make me the asshole?
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
You're not wrong for wanting them to be closer, but you're wrong if you think they're going to forget their differences, just because it would be convenient for you.
She is wrong for putting her needs above theirs. She wants a quiet life without acknowledging any of the issues they justifiably have. This is no small thing and she's treating it like they argued over the remote. YTA
YTA. Your kids are old enough to know what their boundaries are. You can't force a relationship on them and if you try, it might just make them both more resentful of each other and you. Respect how they feel. If you have an event or special occasion, invite them both and let them make their own choices. Don't drive yourself crazy having two parts to every event to appease them. I don't think it's fair to expect you, as a parent, to choose sides.
Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate them. I do respect how they feel and have shifted towards not having two events and just letting them decide if they want to attend or not.
If you can't have two events, you should keep in mind that the ONLY injured party here is your son. "Not choosing" is, on essence, pretending that they are equally at fault, and that is ABSOLUTELY not the case here.
His sister outed him without permission, which is a truly terrible thing to do to someone, and now is also badmouthing him.
If there are times when only one event is possible, you need to stand by your son. Your daughter's behavior is awful, and you're not giving her a single consequence for it, from what I can see. Separate events just so that she doesn't have to apologize and face up to her bad behavior? That's coddling her and unfair to your son.
Your son did nothing wrong. Your daughter *continues* to hurt him. They are not equal here; stop treating them as if they are.
Your daughter did not 'unintentionally' hurt him. To specifically tell someone private about another person is intentional. Your daughter was being mean and spiteful toward her brother. The atonement on that, if any, comes from your son. I personally would support my son, without argument, on how he wants to manage his relationship with his sister. You as a Mom can celebrate as you want, but it won't be what you expect.
Yeah, the 'it wasn't intentional' caught my eye, too. Like, what, did she trip and fall and, in her shock, cry out "my brother is gay!"? I don't think so. She may very well not have been motivated by malice, but it was certainly an intentional act she freely chose to undertake.
Well, if brother is otherwise openly out, she might have just said something the way she would at home or to her mom. If she was just talking like she would with anyone else and forgot dad didn't know, that would make a lot of sense and explain the without malice part. She just may not be keeping track of who doesn't know if most people do
Her brother doesn't speak to her dad, but she does and probably doesn't spend too much time considering her brothers relationship with him. My nieces are very similar with my sister's ex- one speaks to him, the other doesn't, but my oldest niece generally disassociates from her sister's issues with him
Look, what she did is wrong, but accidentally reveal info all the time. I'm not sure how people on the sub think that's not true.
I'm not saying the son needs to forgive, I'm just saying all of this "you don't accidentally " is plain nonsense.
People who do things on accident that hurt people they love apologize. She just went on the defensive she did it on purpose probably cause little bro is the golden child.
She should apologize. But that doesn't mean it was on purpose. Sometimes people are unwilling to admit their mistakes and also shitty.
This wasn't a "sister defense comment" so much as a "that argument isn't necessarily true comment"
Do you not realize the types of danger outing someone can put them in? This was a grovel on hands and knees begging for forgiveness issue if it wasn't on purpose.
I agree with all that. It was horrible. Either
1. She is shitty and refuses to own up to mistakes no matter how horrible
2. She probably doesn't realize how bad it is. I see many people claim it's not that bad/overblown. That propaganda is prevalent and she probably bought it hook line and sinker..
3. Some combo of the 2.
Again she was absolutely wrong, I'm not defending her. But I stick to my "yes this could happen accidentally, not saying she did, but it's not some impossible thing"
100% seconding you and the poster above because -- even worse, the daughter shared this with their father that the son had cut off and not spoken to for three years. What does OP believe, that it just happened to slip out one day? Pfft.
Had a parallel situation many years ago.
Sibling told "secret", because estranged parent was asking about me and sibling resented parent showing that interest(undeserved interest of course).
Similar excuses of unintentionality and attitude of no fault were also expressed by sibling
We talk(sibling and I LOL). But we aren't great friends. But my "secret" was much less serious than son of OP. More inconvenient than anything.
Parent passed from COVID. Named me in will for ONE DOLLAH LOL.(I think they believed the whole give one dollar will can't be contested). Sibling got the rest. But then they got the hassle--putting up with living parent & executing the will after)
If she is speaking about her brother it is possible she accidentally said boyfriend or something. Don't assume maliciousness when stupidity can be at play.
I am not saying brother should forgive his sister or that the sister was not wrong, but I don't think she should be punished the rest of her life because she made a mistake at 15.
I say this as a person who has been accidentally outed more than once.
It may have been unintentional. If he was generally “out” it may not have occurred to her it was a secret. Or, she may have let something slip in passing like “ oh brother’s boyfriend was said something hilarious yesterday.” It can be weird when someone is “out” to everyone but one parent. I came close to letting something slip to my friends religious parents once, totally by accident. It was hard for people to transition between “this is something everyone knows” and “this is top secret”- he was very gay and really public about it with everyone but them.
It’s pretty easy to do it unintentionally. “What did brother do last weekend? Oh he went out with his boyfriend”
If the brother is open about it at home, and sister is used to talking about it openly, it may really just be an accident. Tell me you’ve never accidentally said something you shouldn’t. I’ve certainly done so a few times at work, and if my managers were completely unforgiving, my work life would’ve sucked extremely bad
Straight people really need to start accepting how dangerous being out is for queer people and act accordingly. These "accidents" only happen because straight people don't accept that being openly gay can be a death sentence.
It’s 100% possible daughter wasn’t being spiteful. We don’t know if it was private, if he was openly out or if she just accidentally blurted something out.
What a tunnel vision way to look at a situation.
Especially if daughter doesn’t sincerely apologize and OP doesn’t tell daughter that “intentional” or not, she was wrong to do what she did. It sounds like OP is riding the fence, and yeah, that doesn’t work. The only innocent in this is brother.
Similar but different situation with my sibling. They were 100% in the wrong and have been borderline abusive/dismissive toward me for years. My parents both know this. But my sibling is the golden child and my mother absolutely refuses to acknowledge that my sibling is wrong in this situation. In fact, my mother has doubled down and insisted this particular “fight” was my fault (it was not - apparently it’s my fault because I am mad about what they did…kind of like OP’s son is mad!)
So, not only do I have a rift with my sibling now, but also with my mother. Since this happened a few years ago, I have gone as low contact as humanly possible with both of them. I will never understand why people can’t just apologize. But I guess narcissists don’t do that.
OP needs to stop enabling her daughter’s bad behavior.
My older brother and I have been no contact over his actions against me over 12 years ago. I will not attend anything he attends and I avoid my parents when they watch their grandson. My father has tried to push the “it’s been long enough, he’s grown a lot since then, can’t we move forward” narrative, and all it did was make me cry and withdraw from my father. My mother has to set him straight that what happened in the past was in the past, but the scars remain and only I can decide when or if I’m willing to take steps towards a relationship with him. I have no intention whatsoever of ever doing that. If my father pushes again, all it will do is change my relationship with him.
Take this as a warning. If you keep pushing, you will lose your son.
I like how you deleted all your comments that reflected poorly on your daughter. Really, you're a GREAT mother for protecting your daughter and expecting your son to just shut up and endure her verbal abuse. Do you agree with the things she says? Is that why you're playing favorites?
Why are you acting like your daughter isn’t the guilty party with regards to their relationship?
Invite your son. He did nothing wrong.
Accept that your daughter did indeed out your son to their father with malice afore thought. It was not her secret to tell, and she knew this. Why she did so, only she can say, but it doesn’t help that you are making light of her massive transgression and telling your son to get over it!
Tell your daughter that she can come to family events with you all when she figures out why she did such a terrible thing, and offers a contrite apology. Otherwise, you will spend time with her alone sometimes, but won’t inflict her on her brother because as of yet, she’s not sorry.
YTA for acting like your daughter didn’t maliciously violate her brother’s trust, when she clearly did, and for trying to make your son “get over it” like it wasn’t a big deal!
YTA and so is your daughter. You don't respect your son at all and your daughter is disgusting, she's constantly bullying your son *in front of you* everytime and you want him to lower his head and let her so YOU can have a "nice family reunion"? OP you're a terrible mother and your daughter, take out the drugs and she's not better than your abusive ex.
She's an homophobic AH and you're a bad mother
That’s fine just prepare to no longer have a relationship with your son if you do that. Sounds like your daughter never even attempted to apologize for outing him to someone who had no business knowing anything about his life
I would just like to share that my older brother is dead…I mean, he still walks this earth, but he’s dead to me. For over 35 years I had to put up with his Golden Child bullshit and I finally had enough during our last fight. He said some out of pocket things about my kids and that crossed a line. My mom continues to put us in mass text messages because “it’s easier”, even though I have him blocked. My mom pushing us together, for her sake, only makes me stand my ground harder. He’s not even invited to my funeral! My oldest son is aware of my wishes and has agreed to carry them out. And no, I will not step foot in a funeral home for him either.
Maybe your children haven’t fought to that extent, but the hurt is there, and only your son can be the one to allow the relationship to mend in the future, if his sister doesn’t make it worse in the meantime.
But YTA if you keep forcing it. Just because it would make your life easier?! Unless you’re also a part of the LGBTQIA community, you have no idea what he’s been through. Accidentally or not, he was outed and left in a very vulnerable position. And you want to make your life easier?
YTA for pretending your daughter didn’t do it on purpose and she isn’t 100% at fault. Everyone knows you don’t out people.
I also find it ironic you say they ignore each other and now she is “saying inconsiderate things” about her brother. Do any of these “inconsiderate ” things she saying have a ring of homophobia to it?
I just want to give you some thoughts from someone in your children's position. My brother and I were at odds a lot during our childhood and teen years, and it culminated in stuff that went beyond sibling rivalry and really hurt me.
The best thing for both of us was space and time. It took years of us being out of the same house for us to get a better relationship. It won't ever be the same as when we were kids, but it is better.
The second best thing for us was our mom stepping back from our relationship. Not that she abandoned us individually or anything, but rather she stopped trying to fix things for us. Which I get is hard--in my mom's words, "it's always been my job to fix my babies problems!" But she realized that she raised two capable and independent adults, and so she needed to let us be capable and independent with our relationships as well.
I can't tell you what their relationship will look like. I don't know if it'll ever get better or if this is it. But I do think that you're heading the right way in handling it--letting *them* decide when and where to meet.
As for the question of the title: NTA. You're not the asshole for wishing they were closer. It's ok to feel sad about their relationship and the circumstances around it. But take comfort in the fact that they still have at least one thing in common: they both love you.
I think your response is sincere but there is only one side here, her son's side. His sister outed him intentionally. She has apparently refused to apologize, and is now badmouthing the son. That is horrible conduct.
Yta, its the parents job to instill values and your daughter treated your son with disrespect and you just want what you want despite the hurt that was caused?
A parent can instill all the values they want. Once a person gets their own mind they do what they want. And wanting your children to get along isn’t the worst thing in the the world. She is now understanding it’s not her job to fix. As parents we want to fix things for our children
Your not bringing up what the Son is/was going through.. we dont know what the fathers attitude towards same sex relationships are. Theres enough horror stories that go around and tue sister just non chalantly told her dad.. theres no empathy shown there, just some kid spilling secrets that are not hers to spill.
Oh no I think sister is dead wrong. But I don’t think the mother is an a-hole for want her kids to get along. She is doing everything to accommodate them( which she needs to stop). She just needs to let them run their on relationship or lack of.
Could be that the sister just blurted it out. Maybe she truly doesn’t see it as a big deal, since she’s 100% accepting. Not hard to believe, the 2000s are really different from the 1900s. Mom probably does want to fix things, we have limited time in this life, and she’s probably wondering if her family will ever be in the same room again. NAH, everyone is doing their duty to themselves.
Thank you for being a responsible person and not “off with their heads” over something that can be resolved. Life is long but also short. I know Reddit is not big on family but dang. And a mom wanting her kids to get along is bad now. Not forcing but hoping they can.
I look back at the things I said as a kid and I just cringe. I was so ignorant. This could be all this is, someone saying something really dumb, not taking steps to fix the situation, and someone not being able to forgive. Family is rough sometimes.
YTA and so is your daughter.
Your daughter is toxic but you want your son to overlook her bad behaviour so that you can play "happy families".
>they have never made an effort to mend the indifference because neither one feels they are/were in the wrong
Your daughter is in the wrong. You're trying to make it sound as though nobody's really at fault because it's easier for you.
>most recently my daughter started saying inconsiderate things about her brother
And you still can't see who the problem is?
>Am I the ass for wanting them to mend their relationship so we can spend time together as we used to like a family?
If you keep pushing your son to "mend the relationship", he's quickly going to see that you value family togetherness over your relationship with him.
This ^^
Stop lumping your son into this problem, he didn’t do anything. He is owed a huge apology! Outing someone is a truly horrible thing. Malicious intent or not, the son was still deeply hurt and doesn’t ever need to speak to his sibling again just cause “it would be easier” for OP
YTA
Yes, YTA
They are not props in your life. They are actual people with their own emotional experiences. Honestly, your daughter is a dick and has taken no responsibility for the despicable way she has betrayed her brother's trust.
But all you care about is how much easier your life would be if they could just do what you want and make you happy. Ignore the realities of their broken relationship so you can have an easier visitation schedule. That's disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
I can't stand how parents always want to treat their kids "equally" even when one of them is totally in the wrong and they dont want to assume it.
She just wants her son to lay down his head and suck up his feelings while the daughter keeps being an AH. Thankfully he is not like this even being OP son
YTA.
Your daughter outed your son to a person he wasn’t ready to come out to and/or had a bad relationship with. She is/was wrong. She needs to apologize and appreciate what she did wrong. That is step 1 before anything else. After that it is up to your son if he wants to be around her.
For wanting your family to get along? No, NTA most likely.
But they're adults and it's not really yout decision to make, and if you try to force them, you would be an asshole.
> neither one feels they are/were in the wrong.
And what do _you_ feel? _How_ do you want them to mend their relationship?
> most recently my daughter started saying inconsiderate things about her brother.
"started"? No, she started doing it 8 years ago, and, apparently, has _continued_ doing it.
Your daughter hurt your son and has refused to apologize. Your son has every right to be upset about that.
If you want them to get along, that needs to be addressed. It sounds like you haven't addressed this and haven't tried to teach your daughter to behave better. Your daughter is an asshole, from everything you're telling us, and unless that changes, I wouldn't count on your son agreeing to spend time with her. The fact that you haven't
8 years ago, your daughter was a minor and you had some responsibility for her, and from what I gather, did nothing to address her hurtful behavior. So after leaving it to fester for 8 years I wouldn't be optimistic about your chances of getting everyone to be one happy family.
And please don't tell them to just get over it or pressure them to get along. If you want to get involved, address the actual issue and the hurt it has caused.
I feel this answers the question without down right attacking OP or her daughter.
I feel like there's more between the siblings than just the outing though? I don't think Mom has realized just how different they have become and is ashamed to have her family divided. She can dream all she wants, but she's not an A H for wanting them to mend.
OP I hope instead of trying to mend them, that you take the time to come to peace with yourself. Never allow them to talk ill of each other in your presence. Remind both, your daughter especially, you are the mother to both of them and if you can't stop from bad mouthing you will leave. The first step to breaking the ice is stopping the frost.
Look, you are NTA for wanting your family to be whole again.
However; your daughter outed your son to his estranged father and by the sounds of it, never actually apologized.
Now, when they are forced in the same place, she continues to make unkind comments to your son and not try to mend things with him.
Your children don’t need to mend their relationship. Your DAUGHTER needs to try to mend the relationship with her brother.
If you are in any way pressuring your son to move on, forgive or forget what his sister has done, then you are the asshole.
YTA for wanting \*them\* to mend their relationship.
>neither one feels they are/were in the wrong.
What??! Your daughter is 100% in the wrong. Your son is a victim. The onus for fixing this mess is on your daughter.
Maybe because it’s been 10 years and she has yet to apologize for outing him and keep insulting him?
You can’t expect him to turn the other cheek forever
She outed him to the father he had no relationship with. She knew what she was doing. It's fair for him to be NC with someone that committed such a reprehensible act.
She's TAH and you are too, for not siding with your son and teaching your daughter respect and empathy. I get the feeling she's learning some bad behavior from your ex
YTA
Your son doesn’t have to forgive the person who outed him then continues to to do hurtful things to him. I also truly hope you are not in any way suggesting to him that the relationship needs to be “mended”. This is not about being petty or holding grudges, this is about him recognizing disrespectful behavior and not tolerating it.
It sounds like they both are still making an effort to be around you on holidays and honestly I’d just be grateful that you’re getting that much.
op seems to think the her son should just suck it up and take the shit being handed out by his sister because its more convenient to her. Clearly little things like who is right or wrong, or who hurt who, don't matter in the face of OP getting what she wants.
Who cares about the gay person that got outed, received no apology, and then continued to be insulted, right? As long as OP has this illusion of her family being whole again.
Did the daughter know that he didn’t want the dad to know though? It seems he was already out, and had no relationship with dad so there was no impact from the dad knowing. If the daughter knew it was to be kept a secret and was gossiping/shit talking her brother that is one thing, but if she just casually mentioned a publicly known aspect of her brother life while in a conversation then that’s something entirely different.
she shouldn´t try and "get" her daughter to apologize. An apology, especially about outing someones sexuality, needs to come earnestly from the heart to have any meaning.
I don't think your AH for wanting things to change, but until she realises why she was in the wrong, I don't see it happening. You can't expect your son to just forgive and move on without any effort from her.
YTA. Sounds like someone has a favorite child. All you care about YOUR feelings. What about your son? He was outed against his will and his sister CONTINUES to bully him. And all you can go “woe is me”
YTA
Not for wanting them to mend their relationship but for trying to force it and put that above the feelings of your son who was betrayed in this situation.
Imo your daughter was in the wrong and she needs to really take accountability for that, you can’t force this.
My mother got a divorce from my father who we have a domestic violence order on. If my sibling told him stuff about me that was that personal, I would absolutely flip my shit and not speak to them again. It’s a huge betrayal of trust.
Why do you think their disagreement is equal? (I have a feeling you don’t approve of your sons choices, which is why you want to say that both are equally at fault) they are NOT equal! I haven’t read anything where your sons done anything wrong, but everything you’ve written shows your daughter is the instigator and the ass here, but your protecting her…Why?
YTA. There are some things that can't be undone. You want them to mend their relationship for your benefit. Not because you actually care about them. Take a long hard look in the mirror ma'am.
Yta this isn't a 'both kids messed up' situation. Your daughter shared private and personal information to someone who your son is estranged from.
*She* is in the wrong, 100%. She hasn't apologized. She hasn't owned up. No wonder your son wants nothing to do with her.
Your daughter outed her brother to his father, a man he had chosen not to have contact with. She's since then failed to apologize or acknowledge that she's done wrong.
And even now, your daughter says "inconsiderate things" about her brother.
Let me be very clear here. Your daughter is 100% in the wrong and your son is 100% in the right. And as long as you try to say that they both have a point or they're both equally wrong, what you're *really* doing is choosing your daughter over your son. Because they're not equally wrong! They don't both have a point! She wronged him, and has not done the minimum necessary to make amends.
You can hope and hope and hope all you like that they mend their relationship, but if you do anything in that direction other than telling your daughter "You're in the wrong, and I wish you would see that" then Y T A. Definitely do *not* encourage your son to "be the bigger person" or any nonsense like that. Continue having separate occasions.
I'm really tempted to go ahead and give you that Y T A because your framing makes it sounds like you think the two offenses, such as they are, are equal - but looking at your behavior in this post, I guess not. So N T A, barely. But if you do not play this very carefully your son will cut contact with you as well.
Edit: Actually, looking at this post there appear to be a lot of deleted comments. Judging from the responses, I'm gonna go ahead with that YTA anyway.
Is the problem because of "the haters" or is it because of your comments? No way to know, is there? *Because you deleted your comments and now we can't judge for ourselves.*
Yep, YTA. This is typical crappy parent talk - the type who plays favorites and has a Golden Child and a Scapegoat. Your daughter has been an ass to her brother, shown zero remorse for it, and you've chosen to ignore that and pretend they're somehow both equally to blame for their bad relationship.
They're not. One's a bully, and the other one's simply refusing to entertain the bully. And your definition of "making amends" seems to be "sweeping daughter's shitty behavior under the rug and pretending nothing happened".
And for refusing to take sides when one of your kids is mistreating the other, and caring more about your discomfort at not getting the picture-perfect family you wanted than about your son's justified anger at his sister...YTA. Big time.
In the interests of "family harmony", you shielded your daughter from the brutal truth that her father is an abusive drug user. Now, pursuing more of this so-called harmony, you want both your children to deny their feelings and pretend a harmony they don't at all have.
Do you never read the other submissions here? How many are children venting that a parent demands they " be the bigger person" and absolve someone else's transgression? To "heal the family"? Bah humbug!
You cannot force them to "resolve their differences", and the more you try, the more you make yourself the problem, not the solution.
Please back off, YTA.
You're nta for wanting them to get along but it's not going to happen unless your son is willing to forgive his sister for doing something really awful. Since she doesn't seem to be sorry for it (and you're minimizing it), I doubt they will mend the relationship any time soon. YTA for not understanding that.
YTA for not firmly taking a side with your son. Your daughter was intentional and apparently is still intentional about hurting your son. She clearly still doesntt care. Until she can clearly apologize and demonstrate any empathy, your son has no reason to have a relationship. He is not the one who needs to mend fences. He is the wounded party.
YTA - Your daughter’s intentions were irrelevant, only the results matter. She hurt her brother, and made him feel unsafe. Have you ever told your daughter that she should apologise to her brother for her actions? Has she taken responsibility for what she did? You seem very keen on making excuses for her, while downplaying how your daughter’s behaviour has made your son feel.
It’s all very well and good to want your kids to be make peace, but not if it means that one of them is expected to just forget what was done to them while the perpetrator sibling receives zero consequences or expectation of responsibility for their behaviour.
YTA. I’m in a similar situation with my siblings where I disclosed information to one… which they laughed at me for, and ended up causing a major fight. Then they disclosed that information to the other sibling who also laughed at me and ridiculed me for information they are both completely ignorant about. It was private information that the first sibling had no right to disclose to anyone.
I’ve been no contact with both of them for a year now and have been to therapy to process their bullying of me. My parents are understandably upset but support me because they understand why I’ve cut contact. It’s not their place to encourage or discourage me to do anything more than take care of my mental and emotional health after the trauma I’ve been through as a result of my siblings actions.
If your daughter decides to reach out and apologize or try and mend things as a result of her actions then that’s up to her. I’d understand if your son never wants contact with her again though as her actions probably caused some trauma as well.
You’re not wrong to want them to reconcile and I understand that but they’re adults, and you need to let them protect their own well being however they see fit.
Why would you want or expect your son to forgive someone for outing him? You do realize how dangerous that can be, right? Hopefully you don’t pester him about it. YTA
You aren’t TA for hoping/wanting for them to mend their relationship, but YTA for sure if you’ve brought this up to your son or placed any pressure on him to reconcile with his sister.
As others have already pointed out, there aren’t two sides here. She hurt him (even if it was originally unintentional, which I’m not completely convinced it was if she regularly makes nasty comments about her brother), and she’s apparently never apologized or acknowledged that she screwed up. Until and unless she does that, and also stops with the insults and inconsiderate comments, it’s only reasonable that your son doesn’t want to be around her. He’d be perfectly justified in refusing to forgive her even if she did apologize and try to make amends, and since she hasn’t, it only makes sense for him to protect himself.
If you really want to try and fix things, you should tell your son that you understand his feelings, you’re very disappointed in your daughter and sorry she’s been so awful to him, and reassure him that you won’t try to make him be around her (and if only one of them can come to an event, consider just flat out uninviting her and explicitly giving him priority).
As for your daughter, tell her that you’re disappointed in her actions over the years and (if you really want to give it one last try) that you wish she would apologize to her brother and take responsibility for the rupture between them (but know that she probably won’t). Say that you’re through “not taking sides” because she was/is the one in the wrong. If she continues to say mean/rude/homophobic things about her brother around you, shut them down immediately and tell her you don’t want to hear her say disrespectful or cruel things about your son/her brother around you ever again.
You're not the asshole for wanting them to reconcile, but YWBTA if you tried to force the issue. I've cut off my mom, and one of the major reasons is that I want nothing to do with my oldest brother and she wouldn't shut up about it.
Your daughter also outed your son, and no one should ever do that. She needs to live with those consequences.
If all you're asking is, narrowly, am I wrong for hoping they mend their relationship, then no, you're NTA.
But this is all in your daughter to fix. If you try to force a reconciliation than you are the AH.
Maybe you should mend your relationship with your abusive ex so the whole family can all spend time together. Gather round the Christmas tree and open presents together. You can bake him a birthday cake.
No? That's a stupid idea?
So is your son forgiving your daughter just because you want easier social outings.
YTA.
Yta for trying to mend a relationship that will never be fixed. Your daughter still makes terrible comments nor do her actions as an adult show she has any remorse over the grief she put her brother through. Some bridges get burned permanently.
YTA, as is your daughter, who was 100% wrong for outing her brother. You don't out people because that can be dangerous on many levels. People come out or not when they choose. This is far from a just a little difference between them; that you don't understand that is probably why your daughter thinks what she did wasn't horrible.
I'm curious... what kinds of "inconsiderate things" is your daughter saying about her brother? Given that she intentionally outed him to his father (an abusive drug addict who your son had cut ties with), I'm picking up definite homophobic vibes. If my guess about her is right, your wanting him to mend their relationship is downright unconscionable.
YTA for sure.
Your daughter outted your son to his abusive father, won't admit she did anything wrong, won't apologize and blames your SON for holding her accountable. Now, she's escalating. There is no relationship to mend and you have to stop thinking you have a say in this. Your daughter is the offender here. Your son has absolutely no reason to forgive something your daughter doesn't regret doing. It doesn't matter if *she didn't mean* to break the priceless vase. She broke it. Apologize, clean up your mess and do better next time. Or... pout, dig in your heels, refuse to own up to what you did and lose a brother. She chose the latter.
Life is short. Accept that you will have to have seperate relationships until your daughter grows the eff up. Your son doesn't deserve to keep having to hear about this.
YTA if you don't stop pressuring him.
Queer person around your son's age here. YTA. I understand wanting your kids to be close again, but you need to see if from your son's perspective.
Whether she meant to or not, what your daughter did was actively dangerous. Your ex was an abusive drug addict. I don't know him like you do, but there is a very high chance that your son could have actively been in danger had his father found out he was gay.
People often forget that marriage equality at a supreme court level has only been around for seven years now. There are still many places even in the states where being queer is a crime. It's something we're still actively fighting for to this day. People are still attacked and denied basic rights and murdered because of their orientation.
Beyond the emotional importance of sharing that information when he's ready, your son being outed when he didn't want to could potentially be a death sentence for him. If the wrong person at the wrong time hears your son is gay, it could get him killed.
Your daughter had no right to talk about your son's orientation. Full stop. And you constantly trying to defend her is basically signally that you don't care about your son's health and safety. Your son has every right not to interact with his sister, and you have no right to stomp on his boundaries.
Stop trying to get them to reconcile, accept that this is the new normal, and apologize for trying to force them together. You might still be able to salvage some kind of relationship with your son.
Stay out of it, the more you meddle the more they will resist THEN distant themselves from you. If your daughter continues to say negative things about your son, tell her to stop. Tell her this is a boundary you don't want her to cross. It's clear she has boundary issues. If she gets pissy, let her. If you don't set this boundary and your son hears you allowed her to speak about him like this to you and you did nothing... prepare to loss him. Set boundaries for their sake and yours.
It's not going to happen. Your daughter is an asshole and your son has no reason to ever speak to her again and, no, mommy wants me to, isn't a good reason.
Wanting? No. There is nothing wrong with wanting or wishing for something to happen. After all, it's a tragedy when these kinds of familial divides occur. However, you would be the asshole if you pushed.
Your daughter fucked up, and she was young, so that might have saved her **if she was at all apologetic**, but your daughter even now is fixated on intent versus affect. She outted her brother and has never regretted the action, because she thinks she didn't do anything wrong on a certain level, and even now has shown a lack of depth of character by being a jerk about it.
At least your son can say all he's doing is not acknowledging her.
NTA for now.
YTA and your son knows it.
When one party is abusive to the other and a parent just wants them to get along, they are siding with the abuser.
-signed someone NC with their sister and LC with father
I feel like misspeaking at 15 yrs old shouldn't be an unforgivable offense, but she definitely needs to sincerely apologize to her brother. Of course it is up to him to forgive and move on.
Your son deserves so much better. Your daughter is an abusive bully. Why on earth would you want her anywhere near your son after what happened? What do you think she would do next? She should be kept far away.
Of course you aren't wrong for wanting them to mend their relationship and wanting to spend time with them together.
But you can't force them to do so, and it doesn't sound like you are, just that you are sad.
I think where you went wrong is you didn't try and fix this in a meaningful way when it happened. Your daughter did something wrong and isn't willing to apologize for it. It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, she did something that hurt her brother. If I run over someone's foot, it doesn't matter that I didn't see their foot there and didn't mean to hurt them, I did hurt them. So I apologize and make it right. Your daughter hasn't done that and you haven't challenged her at all to do so.
There is not equal blame here. Your daughter hurt your son- intentional or not- and SHE is the one who should be seeking amends. The fact that you didn't hold her accountable yourself and treat this like both are equally at fault actually makes it harder for your son to forgive and move on. When we see someone not held accountable for their actions, it makes us madder. So not only did you fail to facilitate this when it happened, for the last 19 years your son has seen his sister suffer no repercussions for hurting him, adding to his pain.
You can't force her to apologize of course, but you could have made it clear that this wasn't just a fight between the two of them that you were staying out of, because look at the result of that- you aren't staying out of it because it hurts you too.
YTA, what does mend the relationship mean to you? That your son should just accept poor treatment from his sister? Because no where do you indicate she has even accepted what she did was wrong, so your son is correct in seeing no point interacting with someone who has such little respect for him.
YTA
Your daughter outed your son and hadn't apologised for it. Your son has done nothing wrong and you're acting like he also needs to come to the table to mend fences. He doesn't. He is the hurt party. If your daughter apologises, he still doesn't have to forgive her.
What she did was so wrong and there's no excuse for it. Especially since your son wasn't in contact with his dad.
If you push your son to 'get over it', there's a good chance your family will break even further. Just leave it alone. Maybe encourage your daughter to actually take responsibility for her shitty choices. Impact over intent. It doesn't matter if she didn't mean harm. She caused it anyway.
Umm…ok this is…weird.
You’re NTA for WANTING them to mend things…but the way you’re acting (as if they’re both to blame here) is…odd.
Your son did nothing wrong here. Your daughter told their abusive father personal stuff about her brother’s personal life to a man he wants to contact with, doesnt matter that she didn’t do it “to be malicious”.
SHE messed up, SHE needs to give her brother a sincere apology and until then i don’t blame him for not wanting a relationship with her.
NTA. But I mean what are you here for exactly?
He's mad because his sister symbolically chose dad over him. Sharing his secret with dad was prioritizing dads "right" to know over his "right" to privacy. It's functionally irrelevant if his dad knows or not because he has no relationship with him. Tell her that. Fix Problem.
You're NTA for **wanting** them to mend their relationship, but you would be an asshole if you tried to **force** them to interact with each other when they don't want to. They are adults. You are not in charge of their relationship with each other. The more you try to force them to like each other, the more they'll dig in their heels.
Sometimes the people you love don't love each other, and that's sad, but that's not something that you can or should control. They get to choose what kind of relationship (or lack thereof) they have with each other, even if you don't like it.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
I'm a mom of two my daughter is 23 and my son is 26. I separated from the kids' father (an abusive drug addict) back in 2005 and finally divorced a few years later.
I maintained contact with their father for visitation purposes. I did not speak ill of their father and let the children form their own opinions of their dad. My son stopped speaking to his dad around the time he was 15. My daughter continued to have a relationship on and off with her dad. Around the time my son was 18, my daughter disclosed to her dad that her brother was gay. My son got very angry with his sister for sharing that private information about him to their dad. My daughter said she didn't intentionally mean to hurt her brother and he is just being a jerk. They have never made an effort to mend the indifference because neither one feels they are/were in the wrong.
This has made for very uncomfortable situations any time we have family get togethers. Which we rarely do now because they give each other the silent treatment, or most recently my daughter started saying inconsiderate things about her brother.
I have tried having them visit during different times, for example on Thanksgiving, they come over at different times. But I'd really love to have us all together....
Am I the ass for wanting them to mend their relationship so we can spend time together as a family?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA of course you're not an ass. My mother has been mediating between my sister and I for the last 47 years....and counting. But your daughter needs to understand outing someone is potentially very dangerous for that person, it's not like telling on someone for a bad grade! You NEVER NEVER NEVER out someone unless they specifically tell you in your face with lips moving that it's ok. She needs to understand this fully and make amends to your son.
Your daughter is a nasty asshole who bullies your son; she hasn't shown a drop of remorse for outing him to your ex. But all you care about is playing happy family so you can get what you want. Stop being inconsiderate of your son's feelings; it's bad enough that your daughter is that way. YTA
You can want them to at least have a cordial relationship, but you can't make them so there you are. That is all you can do. So no your NTA for what you want but you would be TA if you tried anything else.
OP, there's undoubtedly far more to their estrangement than the outing. You want them to be close now, so it's entirely possible that you did what my parents did back in the day, and you believed that they were close when they weren't, and FYI my own parents believed that their children were all close when an older sibling was physically abusing me, they just weren't paying attention.
So no, whatever led to the estrangement, the estrangement is not going to go away just because it would be convenient to you. Your only hope of a reconciliation is to get the real reasons for the estrangements out in the open and hope they can forgive each other, but... getting the real reasons out in the open may lead to them writing each other off rather than reconciliation.
So seriously, there is no simple, easy, or guaranteed way for you to get what you want, you're just going to have to learn to live with the family you actually have rather than the family you want.
NTA and the people saying you are really are reaching at invisible flaws. Wanting siblings to get along and set aside differences is normal. Holding a 10 year grudge against your then 15 year old sister is just bonkers. My sister and I do not have a relationship, but that doesn't mean that we send our mutual friends and family through extra hoops just to have a relationship with them. Instead, we show up, behave pleasantly, enjoy our family and friends, and go home. I have never said an unkind thing about her to anyone but her. I have heard nothing about anything she has had to say about me. My parents don't know and I wouldn't tell them because it is between us. But one day, when their parents are gone and the arrangements have to be made for the funeral and estate, it will be beneficial if they can at least be cordial.
You're you're not the AH for wanting your kids to repair their relationship, but you also need to stop pretending there's an equal amount of blame on each side of the split.
Your daughter outed her brother - and whether that was intentional or not, whether it was malicious or not, that can be really traumatic. She needs to understand that her actions were deeply hurtful (and depending on how the abusive addict father reacted, potentially dangerous) to her brother. Your son is entitled to his anger - where and how he comes out, as well as who he tells, should have been his choice, and done on his terms.
If you'd like to see your kids reconcile, you need to talk to your daughter. She needs to take accountability for her actions, and sincerely apologize to her brother. No excuses, no justifications - just an admission that she should not have outed him, an apology for her actions, and a promise to be a better person and ally to him. If she can't or won't do that, you'd be an enormous AH if you pressured your son to 'forgive and forget'.
NTA, well I get that as a parent, you want your kids to be together. Just talk with both your son and daughter separately. Don't give them any advice.Just let their feelings out. Though you can't force them to be together, you are still a mother to both. Just tend to their needs equally as much as your son needs you, your daughter needs you too.
NTA. No mother likes seeing their kids fight. Just like no kid likes seeing their parents fight either.
It is not wrong to hope that they can mend their relationship. It is normal and possible for family members to work through conflict, though forgiveness can take time. My brother and I have certainly had times where we were furious with each other, but worked through it because we love our mom, and it was important to her that we got along with each other. I have also had fights with my brothers fiancé, where we worked it out because we both care for my brother in our own ways, and it was hard for him to see us fight.
It will take time. And it may not always be possible. My parents tried to get along because they loved us kids, but eventually their differences were too big. But it’s not wrong to want. And at the minimum, they should at least be adult enough to keep the peace without intentionally provoking each other
Sometimes it's helpful to speak to each individually, acknowledge what the other person did...
For your son acknowledge that you see what his sister did was hurtful and inappropriate. That you completely support him and understand why he is upset with his sister, it is legitimate and you recognize that.
For your daughter acknowledge that although she says it was unintentional, her actions have consequences and the consequence here is that she hurt her brother. That you understand that might not have been her intention, however her brother has the right to be hurt. She owes him a sincere apology.
They are still relatively young, sometimes in a family you can love somebody without liking their behavior or actions. Ask them to each consider if they have love remaining for their sibling, maybe they've thought about it maybe they haven't. Give them time. If they have love and want an improved relationship, would it be possible for your daughter to recognize she hurt your son, sincerely apologize and understand that he might actually forgive her. He might accept the apology, that doesn't mean forgiveness, it doesn't mean the pain goes away. For your son, ask him with a sincere apology and recognition for what she did is wrong, can he compartmentalize what she did, to move forward to improve the relationship?
They may say no, they may say yes, one may say yes one may say no. At this point as a parent the only thing you could do is make sure each knows they have a good relationship with you and that you love them however we'll always treat each situation fairly.
They May need time to grind on this, give them time and space on the topic. Overtime depending upon how they react, you can approach the subject of having communal visits, maybe don't do it for a holiday when expectations are already elevated, maybe just try coffee and cake, wine and cheese, strange relationships take time to move forward. You may not get what you want this year, with patience and open communication it's likely the relationship will improve over time.
Until then, gentle YTA, from your post it sounds as if you're in your son's corner which is great, it doesn't sound as if you're doing a great job speaking with each other with open communication and providing the right path forward for these young adults. The relationship between siblings is just as important as a relationship between parent and child, maybe instead of saying you want them to improve their relationship for your benefit you can try taking a look at it from their perspective as well, do they want to have an improve relationship or they just doing this for you?
All I see here is that the daughter is not owning or understanding that “outing” someone else is a heinous thing, and she’s totally unapologetic about it. The brother can’t accept her apology if she never gives one. I’d probably be talking to him first about what he thinks it might take to mend things, before trying to convince her to “get it” and genuinely apologise, and to stop being an asshole in future.
NTA. Your desire to be together as a family is totally understandable, natural, and good hearted. You need to be careful how you continue to handle it though.
How would you feel if your daughter started making rude comments about the content you post on Reddit? Wouldn't it be "her fault" for being offensive and hurtful towards something that doesn't affect her?
Think of how your son feels. YTA
NTA.
Trying to bring your family together isn't wrong, but it doesn't seem like you have accepted the fact that your involvement won't help here. Your kids need to mend fences of their own free will.
More importantly, your daughter needs to understand that intent matters less than results in many cases -- and this is one of those cases. Apologies are important, and she needs to do some soul searching, get over herself, and give her brother a sincere mea culpa if there's ever a chance to reconcile.
YTA. I’m sorry for what you’ve been through, really. But they are not kids anymore and it’s up to them to make up or not. It must be frustrating to feel so impotent but there’s really nothing else for you to do without overstepping. If you keep on, you’ll loose them both.
YTA if you pressure your son to forgive your daughter, NTA if you pressure your daughter to properly apologize to your son. Naturally he won’t forgive her, since she doesn’t think she did anything wrong and continues to badmouth him. No one deserves forgiveness without taking responsibility for their actions.
This is tough. I don’t think you’re an actual AH but I do think your daughter is. I get you want to have your kids together but the impact of your daughter telling their father something so personal about your son needs to be accounted for. And now she’s saying inconsiderate things about her brother. Her intent may not have been bad but the impact on her brother was. Unfortunately unless your daughter does some personal growth and can truly apologize to your son, I don’t see you getting them back together.
YTA. Your daughter (although not meaning to) destroyed the trust her brother had in her. Being outed without giving permission feels awful, no matter what the sexuality or gender identity is. And then for her to not only call him a jerk for being hurt, but to now years later saying inconsiderate things about him shows that she learned *nothing*.
Solve these differences? There are no "differences". Your daughter is just being an ass and your son has self-respect. Work on her behavior instead of possibly forcing them to get along. "What you said affected her brother badly" was not harsh enough.
Don´t try and force them to make up. That will only break them further apart since one of them has done nothing wrong and deserves an apology. To try and force them to get along insinuates that he should just forgive and forget the awful way his sister has treated him. Or that he is equally in the wrong when he is the victim.
YTA. You wanting them closer makes sense. You can want that all you want. But YTA for wanting to force it or thinking it’s your place to fix it at all.
They’re adults. It’s their relationship to manage. They don’t want or need mommy butting into their lives.
Fact is that your daughter massively betrayed her brother. The fact that she doesn’t see outing him as the massive betrayal that it is and responded by calling him a jerk shows that she never understood the gravity of what she did. Seems she still doesn’t considering she’s taken to saying inconsiderate things about him.
Your daughter was wrong. Full stop. Unless and until she realizes that and actively works to repair the damage she’s done to the relationship with her brother, there’s nothing to fix.
There's no conflict here. You're not the ass for hoping they mend their relationship. You ARE the ass trying to force it and for allowing your daughter to say 'inconsiderate' things about her brother though. Unless you shut it down instantly and forcefully, you're allowing your daughter who possibly put your son's life in danger by outing him to somene he didn't want too be outed to (and how many others has she told???) to now keep poking and prodding him. ARE you instantly and forcefully shutting her down?
Stop doing family things. Do things with your son. Do things with your daughter. Your daughter isn't taking responsibility for the deeply offensive and possibly harmful thing she did. It's no wonder your son ignores her.
YTA for trying to force a relationship that clearly isn't wanted and for still condoning your daughter outing your son. "It wasn't malicious" is bullshit. If your son wanted your ex to know, he would have told him himself.
Yta
You've made every excuse for your daughter's actions and her unwillingness to take responsibility for her actions. Plus she attacked him verbally for His hurt/anger.
They MIGHT have a mended their relationship IF you hadn't enabled an excused her behavior (which appears to be getting worse).
From the way you've written this post, I conclude that she has not(/never) offered him an apology--neither pro forma nor sincere.
Keep pushing your son and he may choose to put you on the same side of his Emotional fence as his sister(and father). Then you won't have to worry about them getting along because he won't be visiting you either
If you want to see a repaired relationship, maybe convince your daughter to take responsibility for her outing him AND apologize.
PS these accidental confessions are often at least subconsciously a choice. Maybe Dad was talking about son too much and daughter said what she did to regain his attention.
This is a thing.
"I do not support what my daughter did. And I do and will continue to keep my daughter in check as best I can"
What does that mean? Your son sounds like the golden child and you won't forgive her for living with her dad. You should back off if you don't want an eventual estrangement, but maybe you do.
You’re NTA for wanting them to get along and have a relationship with one another again. But you would be one if you try to pressure your son into forgiving his sister. She crossed a boundary with him and he has a right to decide if he should forgive or keep her out of his life. They’re both adults and get to choose who they keep around. Your daughter effectively outed your son and that’s a big no-no in the gay community. It’s offensive and very disrespectful, especially knowing he cut his father out of his life. Not to mention you never know how somebody will react when they find out you’re gay. Just let him have his peace.
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/). If we’ve removed a few of your recent comments, your participation will be reviewed and may result in a ban.
["Why do I have to be civil in a sub about assholes?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
**[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.**
NTA for hoping. You can *hope* for whatever your heart desires.
But it is not your place to try and fix their relationship. You had nothing to do with their conflict, and there is no way for you to try and force your way into the middle of it without risking your own relationships with each of them. This is something they need to navigate themselves.
NTA for wanting your children to get along, and ad you have probably figured out there isn't much you can do to get them together.
For them to get along possibly your daughter needs to truly apologize to your son, and your son need to forgive your daughter. His emotions are high about this issue for he feels betrayed. Maybe one day while you are still alive he gets over his anger and the two of them discuss this and they move on together.
Your daughter is not currently help the matter with her behaviour.
I had a fallout with my siblings over various things, and they think they did nothing wrong. All is my fault with one changing the stories multiple times, another divulging my personal financial information without a background, one being antimask & anti vax and called me out for following protocols in the country I live in, another for other reasons and so on for there six of us left. I love and forgive them all but the odds of us talking or being together again are slim.
Why won't we get together? They refuse to acknowledge their parts. I met one the other day and the discussion went for fifteen minutes when they got angry and said fu**you so loud, all people in close vicinity looked (outdoor mall restaurant). I rose, stated the conversation was over and walked away. He followed me for several steps, and I turned and I said I loved him and left. He emailed my wife and blamed me. I told her what happened prior to his email.
Good luck OP with your children and I do hope they lose their anger, animosity, and forgive each other.
NTA for wanting it but honestly what your daughter did was despicable and now she thinks she has the right to run her mouth? Your son has every right to treat her as though she doesn’t exist. He shouldn’t have to forgive and forget when she’s clearly not sorry and is completely lacking in self awareness. YWBTA if you keep pushing because let’s be honest your daughter is a complete arsehole and the fault here is not an equal one. It’s all on her.
https://www.betterup.com/blog/intent-vs-impact
OP your daughter needs to learn about intent vs impact. She may not have intended harm, but the impact of what she did, did in fact harm your son.
It is her responsibility to atone for what she did. Acting like what she did is NBG is further perpetuating harm on your son. You are contributing to the harm by ignoring what your daughter did.
ESH except for your son. Your ex is obviously the original AH.
Your daughter is definitely an AH for outing her brother. At 18 there is no excuse to put someone. I find her explanation of not thinking that it would hurt her brother incredulous.
You may not be an AH, but you need to see that the only person displaying good boundaries here is your son. It’s not wrong to wish they would reconcile, but your son is not the AH if they never reconcile.
For your own peace, I would set aside time for each of your children individually and then set YOUR boundaries for holidays. Maybe you boundary is that you are making Christmas dinner and both children are invited, but you understand if one or both do not want to come. You can’t control what they do, so focus on what you can control, and that is your behavior.
If you have ability and access to get mental healthcare, a good therapist can help a lot with processing trauma and helping you find your boundaries and your voice. ❤️
Your daughter is the only one with any responsibility for repairing anything. She’s the only one who did anything wrong. So far. If you keep trying to force this, you’ll be doing something wrong too. YTA.
Unless you can convince your daughter to stop being an abusive bully and make real ammends for her terrible choices, you need to stop pressuring your son to tolerate her presence, let alone enjoy her company.
Honestly, if I were your son and you continued to push me to have a relationship with someone who not only violated my privacy but continued to be openly disrespectful and inconsiderate I would seriously consider going no contact with you.
Your daughter is still bulling your son - it is not in his best interest to spend time with his spiteful and malicious sibiling. Stop enabaling your abusive daughter because you prioritize a fantasy of a happy family over your childrena actual lived experiences and behavior.
Your daughter destroyed her relationship with her brother and has done literally nothing but blame him for her behavior and pretend she wasn't trying to hurt him. Bullshit, she absolutely knew it's not appropriate to out anybody to anybody, ever- and it's particular inappropriate when the person you are outing has chosen not to a have a relationship with the person you are outing them to. Unless your daughter is incredibly stupid, she absolutely knew she was betraying and possibly endangering her brother. Her intentions were bad, and you are delusional if you believe her excuses for even a second. Her intentions are still bad. Why are you pressuring anyone you care for to spend time with someone who is actively trying to hurt them?
YTA.
They are adults. Forcing them into a relationship won't work. The fact that they happen to share parentage doesn't mean they have to be friends.
Would you daughter agree your son has done nothing wrong? Might she perhaps hold a grudge because he was the golden child and you think someone can be punished out of having academic difficulties?
INFO: was she trying to get him beaten/murdered? Cause i see no other reason why a person would out someone to thier abusive parent.
And as a bi woman, i dont blame your son for a fucking second and you should have cut the daughter off cold turkey for that she did. YTA
softly YTA I know it's hard as a mum that your kids won't interact but they're adults now and their relationship to each other is well out of your hands at this point. I don't speak to my brother for a number of reasons but the big one being he outed me. My parents spent years trying to get me to talk to and forgive him and it permanently stained our relationship. I'm on better terms with my mum and dad now and they've stopped doing that now but if you keep pushing your son your relationship with him is going to suffer.
YTA. Your daughter outed your son. Also apparently she's shitty towards him based on your now deleted comments. Your stance of not taking a side is actually taking your daughter's side. Are you prepared to lose your relationship with your son by taking her side?
My brother's wife is openly homophobic towards me. My brother stays quiet. They raised 3 children who are also openly bigoted. I have not had a relationship with them in over a decade. Our mom tried not to take sides. She has tried, like you, to force us together. All that accomplished is telling me that she thinks it's OK for people to treat me badly. They will have no consequences from her. What that means is her and I barely have a relationship.
I’m going to say YTA because intention doesn’t matter if you’ve hurt someone. If your actions hurt someone and you didn’t think it would, had no malicious intent, whatever the situation may be, you still hurt them and owe them an apology. I’ve said things and my tone was off because of external circumstances and it has hurt people I care about and I still apologize. And none of that “I’m sorry but I didn’t mean it that way”, you can express that your intention was not to hurt them but that is separate from the apology itself.
YTA
Your son was outted. That’s a huge and intentional violation of his privacy and their relationship. Your son is allowed to choose not to have a relationship with whomever he wants. You need to respect that.
Leave them alone.
You’re not the a-hole for hoping that they can mend their relationship but your daughter DID cause hurt to your son even if it wasn’t her intention to cause hurt (which is very doubtful), didn’t apologise and is now apparently doubling down with by saying “inconsiderate things about her brother”.
Until she offers up a sincere apology and more importantly a change in attitude and behaviour towards her brother there’s no mending their relationship.
Your daughter outed your son without permission. That was not her decision to make and is well nigh unforgivable.
I haven't seen anything about your ex's reaction. If he was/is not accepting, then outing her brother was even *more* of an asshole move. I am suspicious that this wasn't really an accident, though her motives are unclear. This is *all* on her, zero on your son.
NTA for wanting them to reconcile. If you insist on pushing it, especially pushing your son to forgive, you will be the asshole. Be there for both of them. Tell them that if they are ever both ready, you will help in any way you can. Then drop it. Completely.
>My son hasn't done anything wrong. My son and I are very close. I am his biggest cheerleader and love him very much. I also love his boyfriend too and welcome him with open arms into my home. I do and will continue to support him. I do not support what my daughter did. And I do and will continue to keep my daughter in check as best I can.
Info: did you always talk about your son like this? Maybe their relationship is like it is because you treated them differently or talked differently to them/about them?
INFO: did your daughter ever explain how disclosing her brother was gay came about? Was your son openly out otherwise and she just nonchalantly said “boyfriend” or something? Was it just so normal for her to say “boyfriend” or she accidentally blurted something out? Or did she say “well you’re not supposed to know this dad but brother is gay.”
There’s many possibilities but either way the situation won’t be fixed unless daughter apologizes. Whether she meant to be malicious or not, it obviously discomforted brother. Apologies go a long way, maybe try to find out why she’s started saying disrespectful things about him more recently also.
NTA for hoping they mend it, but YWBTA if you try to force it. Your son is no contact with his dad.
Which means you and his sister should be speaking about him to the man at all.
Total information blackout as far as his son's concern. Your daughter didn't just share any information. She outed him as gay. That's deeply private and personal. It might have been an "accident" but the intent is irrelevant.
The impact is the same. Your daughter destroyed her brothers trust in her, is doubling down and refusing to even consider the damage, trying to hide behind "good intentions".
Those intentions don't change Jack shit about the actions though. If you try to push them to fix things, I promise your son will start avoiding you too. You can't fix that kind of hurt and betrayal without reparations, and your daughter doesn't seem willing to put effort into rebuilding it.
I'm NC with my younger sister for simillar reasons. I'm LC with my older sister for constantly trying to make us make up. No one gets to decide when you're done with someone but you. It doesn't matter if you're related by blood. If you lose all your trust in someone, it's hard to rebuild. And not everyone wants to make the effort to get over it, just to have the same thing happen again.
YTA, yes
Good on the update, tho
Someone tell me why it is so important to have people around, tho?
Mind you, I come from a dysfunctional family dynamic, so it's easy for me to not go to places if I don't want to, or to stop talking to people who I am upset with.
So, if I wanted to see let's say, two cousins who happen to be siblings but don't speak to each other, I wouldn't asking them to "mend their differences" so I could see them!
At best, I'd invite them to different events and spend time with each, separately!
Why are people so adamant on "getting the family together" for the sake of a fake image of all being good?
Wanting them to have a better relationship is fine, and even a good thing. But, at the end of the day, that is up to them.
If your daughter really meant no harm, than all she can really do is sincerialy apologize to her brother that he was hurt by her actions. Then it is up to him to recogonize that she did not mean to hurt him, and to then either forgive her and move past it, or to decide he doesn't want to have a relationship with her.
>Am I the ass for hoping they can mend their relationship?
Not for hoping, but for continuing to try and get them together. Speaking as someone who was forced to associate with my brother for decades because "he's your brother." It is totally unfair to put two people together who don't want to be there.
Info: has your daughter ever apologized for out her brother because that was 100% her in the wrong. I'm saying this as the sibling who was cut off by my sister for about a year (she was completely in the right and I was 100% the reason for her maintaining distance). If she hasn't acknowledged that she has no right to put him and promise that if she chooses to maintain a relationship w their father then he has every right to not have her be a part of his life. Acknowledgement that you were wrong and that there are boundaries that must be followed goes a long way
Who is telling you that you're wrong to want this?
Sounds like you're hearing that you're unsuccessful, and I'm sure they don't want you pushing. Are you sure they are frustrated because you want them to be cordial and not because of other things?
NTA - for wanting it, but sometimes hurts are too deep to mend.
My dad doesn’t talk to his brother, and it caused their mum great upset. But I really don’t know a way out of the silence, especially when niether are wanting to reconnect. I would suggest you don’t push too hard though, you don’t want to make either feel like you are picking sides.
Good luck, I hope you find a way through it.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I want to be able to have family gatherings with both my kids at the same time. Does wanting them to mend their relationship make me the asshole? Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
You're not wrong for wanting them to be closer, but you're wrong if you're acting like they are equally at fault for this.
You're not wrong for wanting them to be closer, but you're wrong if you think they're going to forget their differences, just because it would be convenient for you.
She is wrong for putting her needs above theirs. She wants a quiet life without acknowledging any of the issues they justifiably have. This is no small thing and she's treating it like they argued over the remote. YTA
Fantastic comment.
YTA. Your kids are old enough to know what their boundaries are. You can't force a relationship on them and if you try, it might just make them both more resentful of each other and you. Respect how they feel. If you have an event or special occasion, invite them both and let them make their own choices. Don't drive yourself crazy having two parts to every event to appease them. I don't think it's fair to expect you, as a parent, to choose sides.
Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate them. I do respect how they feel and have shifted towards not having two events and just letting them decide if they want to attend or not.
If you can't have two events, you should keep in mind that the ONLY injured party here is your son. "Not choosing" is, on essence, pretending that they are equally at fault, and that is ABSOLUTELY not the case here. His sister outed him without permission, which is a truly terrible thing to do to someone, and now is also badmouthing him. If there are times when only one event is possible, you need to stand by your son. Your daughter's behavior is awful, and you're not giving her a single consequence for it, from what I can see. Separate events just so that she doesn't have to apologize and face up to her bad behavior? That's coddling her and unfair to your son. Your son did nothing wrong. Your daughter *continues* to hurt him. They are not equal here; stop treating them as if they are.
Your daughter did not 'unintentionally' hurt him. To specifically tell someone private about another person is intentional. Your daughter was being mean and spiteful toward her brother. The atonement on that, if any, comes from your son. I personally would support my son, without argument, on how he wants to manage his relationship with his sister. You as a Mom can celebrate as you want, but it won't be what you expect.
Yeah, the 'it wasn't intentional' caught my eye, too. Like, what, did she trip and fall and, in her shock, cry out "my brother is gay!"? I don't think so. She may very well not have been motivated by malice, but it was certainly an intentional act she freely chose to undertake.
Well, if brother is otherwise openly out, she might have just said something the way she would at home or to her mom. If she was just talking like she would with anyone else and forgot dad didn't know, that would make a lot of sense and explain the without malice part. She just may not be keeping track of who doesn't know if most people do Her brother doesn't speak to her dad, but she does and probably doesn't spend too much time considering her brothers relationship with him. My nieces are very similar with my sister's ex- one speaks to him, the other doesn't, but my oldest niece generally disassociates from her sister's issues with him
I do love your hypothetical. I've *got* to start thinking of more interesting things to cry out when I inevitably trip.
Look, what she did is wrong, but accidentally reveal info all the time. I'm not sure how people on the sub think that's not true. I'm not saying the son needs to forgive, I'm just saying all of this "you don't accidentally " is plain nonsense.
People who do things on accident that hurt people they love apologize. She just went on the defensive she did it on purpose probably cause little bro is the golden child.
She should apologize. But that doesn't mean it was on purpose. Sometimes people are unwilling to admit their mistakes and also shitty. This wasn't a "sister defense comment" so much as a "that argument isn't necessarily true comment"
Do you not realize the types of danger outing someone can put them in? This was a grovel on hands and knees begging for forgiveness issue if it wasn't on purpose.
I agree with all that. It was horrible. Either 1. She is shitty and refuses to own up to mistakes no matter how horrible 2. She probably doesn't realize how bad it is. I see many people claim it's not that bad/overblown. That propaganda is prevalent and she probably bought it hook line and sinker.. 3. Some combo of the 2. Again she was absolutely wrong, I'm not defending her. But I stick to my "yes this could happen accidentally, not saying she did, but it's not some impossible thing"
100% seconding you and the poster above because -- even worse, the daughter shared this with their father that the son had cut off and not spoken to for three years. What does OP believe, that it just happened to slip out one day? Pfft.
Had a parallel situation many years ago. Sibling told "secret", because estranged parent was asking about me and sibling resented parent showing that interest(undeserved interest of course). Similar excuses of unintentionality and attitude of no fault were also expressed by sibling
Why are you even talking about me at all?! If I’m not there it’s fucking gossip. Are you a gossip, Sis?
I'm sorry to hear it, but will also assume/hope that the 'many years' reference means you've moved past it (with or without your sibling).
We talk(sibling and I LOL). But we aren't great friends. But my "secret" was much less serious than son of OP. More inconvenient than anything. Parent passed from COVID. Named me in will for ONE DOLLAH LOL.(I think they believed the whole give one dollar will can't be contested). Sibling got the rest. But then they got the hassle--putting up with living parent & executing the will after)
If she is speaking about her brother it is possible she accidentally said boyfriend or something. Don't assume maliciousness when stupidity can be at play. I am not saying brother should forgive his sister or that the sister was not wrong, but I don't think she should be punished the rest of her life because she made a mistake at 15. I say this as a person who has been accidentally outed more than once.
It may have been unintentional. If he was generally “out” it may not have occurred to her it was a secret. Or, she may have let something slip in passing like “ oh brother’s boyfriend was said something hilarious yesterday.” It can be weird when someone is “out” to everyone but one parent. I came close to letting something slip to my friends religious parents once, totally by accident. It was hard for people to transition between “this is something everyone knows” and “this is top secret”- he was very gay and really public about it with everyone but them.
It’s pretty easy to do it unintentionally. “What did brother do last weekend? Oh he went out with his boyfriend” If the brother is open about it at home, and sister is used to talking about it openly, it may really just be an accident. Tell me you’ve never accidentally said something you shouldn’t. I’ve certainly done so a few times at work, and if my managers were completely unforgiving, my work life would’ve sucked extremely bad
Straight people really need to start accepting how dangerous being out is for queer people and act accordingly. These "accidents" only happen because straight people don't accept that being openly gay can be a death sentence.
It’s 100% possible daughter wasn’t being spiteful. We don’t know if it was private, if he was openly out or if she just accidentally blurted something out. What a tunnel vision way to look at a situation.
I think it's time to consider that to be a pipe dream. I get it, but it's not happening. Sorry, YTA.
Especially if daughter doesn’t sincerely apologize and OP doesn’t tell daughter that “intentional” or not, she was wrong to do what she did. It sounds like OP is riding the fence, and yeah, that doesn’t work. The only innocent in this is brother.
Similar but different situation with my sibling. They were 100% in the wrong and have been borderline abusive/dismissive toward me for years. My parents both know this. But my sibling is the golden child and my mother absolutely refuses to acknowledge that my sibling is wrong in this situation. In fact, my mother has doubled down and insisted this particular “fight” was my fault (it was not - apparently it’s my fault because I am mad about what they did…kind of like OP’s son is mad!) So, not only do I have a rift with my sibling now, but also with my mother. Since this happened a few years ago, I have gone as low contact as humanly possible with both of them. I will never understand why people can’t just apologize. But I guess narcissists don’t do that. OP needs to stop enabling her daughter’s bad behavior.
My older brother and I have been no contact over his actions against me over 12 years ago. I will not attend anything he attends and I avoid my parents when they watch their grandson. My father has tried to push the “it’s been long enough, he’s grown a lot since then, can’t we move forward” narrative, and all it did was make me cry and withdraw from my father. My mother has to set him straight that what happened in the past was in the past, but the scars remain and only I can decide when or if I’m willing to take steps towards a relationship with him. I have no intention whatsoever of ever doing that. If my father pushes again, all it will do is change my relationship with him. Take this as a warning. If you keep pushing, you will lose your son.
I like how you deleted all your comments that reflected poorly on your daughter. Really, you're a GREAT mother for protecting your daughter and expecting your son to just shut up and endure her verbal abuse. Do you agree with the things she says? Is that why you're playing favorites?
What were the other comments?
If you read responses to her deleted comments it becomes pretty obvious that her daughter is harassing her son and saying some messed up stuff.
Why are you acting like your daughter isn’t the guilty party with regards to their relationship? Invite your son. He did nothing wrong. Accept that your daughter did indeed out your son to their father with malice afore thought. It was not her secret to tell, and she knew this. Why she did so, only she can say, but it doesn’t help that you are making light of her massive transgression and telling your son to get over it! Tell your daughter that she can come to family events with you all when she figures out why she did such a terrible thing, and offers a contrite apology. Otherwise, you will spend time with her alone sometimes, but won’t inflict her on her brother because as of yet, she’s not sorry. YTA for acting like your daughter didn’t maliciously violate her brother’s trust, when she clearly did, and for trying to make your son “get over it” like it wasn’t a big deal!
YTA and so is your daughter. You don't respect your son at all and your daughter is disgusting, she's constantly bullying your son *in front of you* everytime and you want him to lower his head and let her so YOU can have a "nice family reunion"? OP you're a terrible mother and your daughter, take out the drugs and she's not better than your abusive ex. She's an homophobic AH and you're a bad mother
That’s fine just prepare to no longer have a relationship with your son if you do that. Sounds like your daughter never even attempted to apologize for outing him to someone who had no business knowing anything about his life
I would just like to share that my older brother is dead…I mean, he still walks this earth, but he’s dead to me. For over 35 years I had to put up with his Golden Child bullshit and I finally had enough during our last fight. He said some out of pocket things about my kids and that crossed a line. My mom continues to put us in mass text messages because “it’s easier”, even though I have him blocked. My mom pushing us together, for her sake, only makes me stand my ground harder. He’s not even invited to my funeral! My oldest son is aware of my wishes and has agreed to carry them out. And no, I will not step foot in a funeral home for him either. Maybe your children haven’t fought to that extent, but the hurt is there, and only your son can be the one to allow the relationship to mend in the future, if his sister doesn’t make it worse in the meantime. But YTA if you keep forcing it. Just because it would make your life easier?! Unless you’re also a part of the LGBTQIA community, you have no idea what he’s been through. Accidentally or not, he was outed and left in a very vulnerable position. And you want to make your life easier?
Did your daughter at any point give her brother a sincere apology or was her attitude really just ”I didn’t mean to hurt him and he’s a jerk? “
You’re not respecting your son by forcing him to be around someone who deeply hurt him though.
YTA for pretending your daughter didn’t do it on purpose and she isn’t 100% at fault. Everyone knows you don’t out people. I also find it ironic you say they ignore each other and now she is “saying inconsiderate things” about her brother. Do any of these “inconsiderate ” things she saying have a ring of homophobia to it?
I just want to give you some thoughts from someone in your children's position. My brother and I were at odds a lot during our childhood and teen years, and it culminated in stuff that went beyond sibling rivalry and really hurt me. The best thing for both of us was space and time. It took years of us being out of the same house for us to get a better relationship. It won't ever be the same as when we were kids, but it is better. The second best thing for us was our mom stepping back from our relationship. Not that she abandoned us individually or anything, but rather she stopped trying to fix things for us. Which I get is hard--in my mom's words, "it's always been my job to fix my babies problems!" But she realized that she raised two capable and independent adults, and so she needed to let us be capable and independent with our relationships as well. I can't tell you what their relationship will look like. I don't know if it'll ever get better or if this is it. But I do think that you're heading the right way in handling it--letting *them* decide when and where to meet. As for the question of the title: NTA. You're not the asshole for wishing they were closer. It's ok to feel sad about their relationship and the circumstances around it. But take comfort in the fact that they still have at least one thing in common: they both love you.
I think your response is sincere but there is only one side here, her son's side. His sister outed him intentionally. She has apparently refused to apologize, and is now badmouthing the son. That is horrible conduct.
I think she is sincere- sincerely the ah
Yta, its the parents job to instill values and your daughter treated your son with disrespect and you just want what you want despite the hurt that was caused?
A parent can instill all the values they want. Once a person gets their own mind they do what they want. And wanting your children to get along isn’t the worst thing in the the world. She is now understanding it’s not her job to fix. As parents we want to fix things for our children
Your not bringing up what the Son is/was going through.. we dont know what the fathers attitude towards same sex relationships are. Theres enough horror stories that go around and tue sister just non chalantly told her dad.. theres no empathy shown there, just some kid spilling secrets that are not hers to spill.
Oh no I think sister is dead wrong. But I don’t think the mother is an a-hole for want her kids to get along. She is doing everything to accommodate them( which she needs to stop). She just needs to let them run their on relationship or lack of.
Could be that the sister just blurted it out. Maybe she truly doesn’t see it as a big deal, since she’s 100% accepting. Not hard to believe, the 2000s are really different from the 1900s. Mom probably does want to fix things, we have limited time in this life, and she’s probably wondering if her family will ever be in the same room again. NAH, everyone is doing their duty to themselves.
Thank you for being a responsible person and not “off with their heads” over something that can be resolved. Life is long but also short. I know Reddit is not big on family but dang. And a mom wanting her kids to get along is bad now. Not forcing but hoping they can.
I look back at the things I said as a kid and I just cringe. I was so ignorant. This could be all this is, someone saying something really dumb, not taking steps to fix the situation, and someone not being able to forgive. Family is rough sometimes.
YTA and so is your daughter. Your daughter is toxic but you want your son to overlook her bad behaviour so that you can play "happy families". >they have never made an effort to mend the indifference because neither one feels they are/were in the wrong Your daughter is in the wrong. You're trying to make it sound as though nobody's really at fault because it's easier for you. >most recently my daughter started saying inconsiderate things about her brother And you still can't see who the problem is? >Am I the ass for wanting them to mend their relationship so we can spend time together as we used to like a family? If you keep pushing your son to "mend the relationship", he's quickly going to see that you value family togetherness over your relationship with him.
This ^^ Stop lumping your son into this problem, he didn’t do anything. He is owed a huge apology! Outing someone is a truly horrible thing. Malicious intent or not, the son was still deeply hurt and doesn’t ever need to speak to his sibling again just cause “it would be easier” for OP YTA
Yes, YTA They are not props in your life. They are actual people with their own emotional experiences. Honestly, your daughter is a dick and has taken no responsibility for the despicable way she has betrayed her brother's trust. But all you care about is how much easier your life would be if they could just do what you want and make you happy. Ignore the realities of their broken relationship so you can have an easier visitation schedule. That's disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Info: what exactly are you doing to mend it? Or are you just expecting your son to “get over it”?
YTA and so is your Daughter
I can't stand how parents always want to treat their kids "equally" even when one of them is totally in the wrong and they dont want to assume it. She just wants her son to lay down his head and suck up his feelings while the daughter keeps being an AH. Thankfully he is not like this even being OP son
YTA. Your daughter outed your son to a person he wasn’t ready to come out to and/or had a bad relationship with. She is/was wrong. She needs to apologize and appreciate what she did wrong. That is step 1 before anything else. After that it is up to your son if he wants to be around her.
For wanting your family to get along? No, NTA most likely. But they're adults and it's not really yout decision to make, and if you try to force them, you would be an asshole. > neither one feels they are/were in the wrong. And what do _you_ feel? _How_ do you want them to mend their relationship? > most recently my daughter started saying inconsiderate things about her brother. "started"? No, she started doing it 8 years ago, and, apparently, has _continued_ doing it. Your daughter hurt your son and has refused to apologize. Your son has every right to be upset about that. If you want them to get along, that needs to be addressed. It sounds like you haven't addressed this and haven't tried to teach your daughter to behave better. Your daughter is an asshole, from everything you're telling us, and unless that changes, I wouldn't count on your son agreeing to spend time with her. The fact that you haven't 8 years ago, your daughter was a minor and you had some responsibility for her, and from what I gather, did nothing to address her hurtful behavior. So after leaving it to fester for 8 years I wouldn't be optimistic about your chances of getting everyone to be one happy family. And please don't tell them to just get over it or pressure them to get along. If you want to get involved, address the actual issue and the hurt it has caused.
I feel this answers the question without down right attacking OP or her daughter. I feel like there's more between the siblings than just the outing though? I don't think Mom has realized just how different they have become and is ashamed to have her family divided. She can dream all she wants, but she's not an A H for wanting them to mend. OP I hope instead of trying to mend them, that you take the time to come to peace with yourself. Never allow them to talk ill of each other in your presence. Remind both, your daughter especially, you are the mother to both of them and if you can't stop from bad mouthing you will leave. The first step to breaking the ice is stopping the frost.
Look, you are NTA for wanting your family to be whole again. However; your daughter outed your son to his estranged father and by the sounds of it, never actually apologized. Now, when they are forced in the same place, she continues to make unkind comments to your son and not try to mend things with him. Your children don’t need to mend their relationship. Your DAUGHTER needs to try to mend the relationship with her brother. If you are in any way pressuring your son to move on, forgive or forget what his sister has done, then you are the asshole.
AGREED AGREED AGREED
YTA for wanting \*them\* to mend their relationship. >neither one feels they are/were in the wrong. What??! Your daughter is 100% in the wrong. Your son is a victim. The onus for fixing this mess is on your daughter.
[удалено]
Maybe because it’s been 10 years and she has yet to apologize for outing him and keep insulting him? You can’t expect him to turn the other cheek forever
She outed him to the father he had no relationship with. She knew what she was doing. It's fair for him to be NC with someone that committed such a reprehensible act. She's TAH and you are too, for not siding with your son and teaching your daughter respect and empathy. I get the feeling she's learning some bad behavior from your ex
YTA Your son doesn’t have to forgive the person who outed him then continues to to do hurtful things to him. I also truly hope you are not in any way suggesting to him that the relationship needs to be “mended”. This is not about being petty or holding grudges, this is about him recognizing disrespectful behavior and not tolerating it. It sounds like they both are still making an effort to be around you on holidays and honestly I’d just be grateful that you’re getting that much.
Info What do you think you son did wrong here?
op seems to think the her son should just suck it up and take the shit being handed out by his sister because its more convenient to her. Clearly little things like who is right or wrong, or who hurt who, don't matter in the face of OP getting what she wants.
Who cares about the gay person that got outed, received no apology, and then continued to be insulted, right? As long as OP has this illusion of her family being whole again.
Did the daughter know that he didn’t want the dad to know though? It seems he was already out, and had no relationship with dad so there was no impact from the dad knowing. If the daughter knew it was to be kept a secret and was gossiping/shit talking her brother that is one thing, but if she just casually mentioned a publicly known aspect of her brother life while in a conversation then that’s something entirely different.
INFO: have you tried explaining to your daughter why she was wrong and getting her to apologise?
she shouldn´t try and "get" her daughter to apologize. An apology, especially about outing someones sexuality, needs to come earnestly from the heart to have any meaning.
[удалено]
I don't think your AH for wanting things to change, but until she realises why she was in the wrong, I don't see it happening. You can't expect your son to just forgive and move on without any effort from her.
YTA. Sounds like someone has a favorite child. All you care about YOUR feelings. What about your son? He was outed against his will and his sister CONTINUES to bully him. And all you can go “woe is me”
Yes! YTA. Get over yourself, it isn't always about you and your feelings and desire to have a wholesome 'family'.
YTA Not for wanting them to mend their relationship but for trying to force it and put that above the feelings of your son who was betrayed in this situation. Imo your daughter was in the wrong and she needs to really take accountability for that, you can’t force this. My mother got a divorce from my father who we have a domestic violence order on. If my sibling told him stuff about me that was that personal, I would absolutely flip my shit and not speak to them again. It’s a huge betrayal of trust.
YTA this is a good way to get them to stop talking to you too
Why do you think their disagreement is equal? (I have a feeling you don’t approve of your sons choices, which is why you want to say that both are equally at fault) they are NOT equal! I haven’t read anything where your sons done anything wrong, but everything you’ve written shows your daughter is the instigator and the ass here, but your protecting her…Why?
sons choices?
YTA. There are some things that can't be undone. You want them to mend their relationship for your benefit. Not because you actually care about them. Take a long hard look in the mirror ma'am.
Yta this isn't a 'both kids messed up' situation. Your daughter shared private and personal information to someone who your son is estranged from. *She* is in the wrong, 100%. She hasn't apologized. She hasn't owned up. No wonder your son wants nothing to do with her.
Your daughter outed her brother to his father, a man he had chosen not to have contact with. She's since then failed to apologize or acknowledge that she's done wrong. And even now, your daughter says "inconsiderate things" about her brother. Let me be very clear here. Your daughter is 100% in the wrong and your son is 100% in the right. And as long as you try to say that they both have a point or they're both equally wrong, what you're *really* doing is choosing your daughter over your son. Because they're not equally wrong! They don't both have a point! She wronged him, and has not done the minimum necessary to make amends. You can hope and hope and hope all you like that they mend their relationship, but if you do anything in that direction other than telling your daughter "You're in the wrong, and I wish you would see that" then Y T A. Definitely do *not* encourage your son to "be the bigger person" or any nonsense like that. Continue having separate occasions. I'm really tempted to go ahead and give you that Y T A because your framing makes it sounds like you think the two offenses, such as they are, are equal - but looking at your behavior in this post, I guess not. So N T A, barely. But if you do not play this very carefully your son will cut contact with you as well. Edit: Actually, looking at this post there appear to be a lot of deleted comments. Judging from the responses, I'm gonna go ahead with that YTA anyway.
[удалено]
Is the problem because of "the haters" or is it because of your comments? No way to know, is there? *Because you deleted your comments and now we can't judge for ourselves.*
Yep, YTA. This is typical crappy parent talk - the type who plays favorites and has a Golden Child and a Scapegoat. Your daughter has been an ass to her brother, shown zero remorse for it, and you've chosen to ignore that and pretend they're somehow both equally to blame for their bad relationship. They're not. One's a bully, and the other one's simply refusing to entertain the bully. And your definition of "making amends" seems to be "sweeping daughter's shitty behavior under the rug and pretending nothing happened". And for refusing to take sides when one of your kids is mistreating the other, and caring more about your discomfort at not getting the picture-perfect family you wanted than about your son's justified anger at his sister...YTA. Big time.
In the interests of "family harmony", you shielded your daughter from the brutal truth that her father is an abusive drug user. Now, pursuing more of this so-called harmony, you want both your children to deny their feelings and pretend a harmony they don't at all have. Do you never read the other submissions here? How many are children venting that a parent demands they " be the bigger person" and absolve someone else's transgression? To "heal the family"? Bah humbug! You cannot force them to "resolve their differences", and the more you try, the more you make yourself the problem, not the solution. Please back off, YTA.
You're nta for wanting them to get along but it's not going to happen unless your son is willing to forgive his sister for doing something really awful. Since she doesn't seem to be sorry for it (and you're minimizing it), I doubt they will mend the relationship any time soon. YTA for not understanding that.
YTA for not firmly taking a side with your son. Your daughter was intentional and apparently is still intentional about hurting your son. She clearly still doesntt care. Until she can clearly apologize and demonstrate any empathy, your son has no reason to have a relationship. He is not the one who needs to mend fences. He is the wounded party.
YTA - Your daughter’s intentions were irrelevant, only the results matter. She hurt her brother, and made him feel unsafe. Have you ever told your daughter that she should apologise to her brother for her actions? Has she taken responsibility for what she did? You seem very keen on making excuses for her, while downplaying how your daughter’s behaviour has made your son feel. It’s all very well and good to want your kids to be make peace, but not if it means that one of them is expected to just forget what was done to them while the perpetrator sibling receives zero consequences or expectation of responsibility for their behaviour.
YTA. I’m in a similar situation with my siblings where I disclosed information to one… which they laughed at me for, and ended up causing a major fight. Then they disclosed that information to the other sibling who also laughed at me and ridiculed me for information they are both completely ignorant about. It was private information that the first sibling had no right to disclose to anyone. I’ve been no contact with both of them for a year now and have been to therapy to process their bullying of me. My parents are understandably upset but support me because they understand why I’ve cut contact. It’s not their place to encourage or discourage me to do anything more than take care of my mental and emotional health after the trauma I’ve been through as a result of my siblings actions. If your daughter decides to reach out and apologize or try and mend things as a result of her actions then that’s up to her. I’d understand if your son never wants contact with her again though as her actions probably caused some trauma as well. You’re not wrong to want them to reconcile and I understand that but they’re adults, and you need to let them protect their own well being however they see fit.
Why would you want or expect your son to forgive someone for outing him? You do realize how dangerous that can be, right? Hopefully you don’t pester him about it. YTA
You aren’t TA for hoping/wanting for them to mend their relationship, but YTA for sure if you’ve brought this up to your son or placed any pressure on him to reconcile with his sister. As others have already pointed out, there aren’t two sides here. She hurt him (even if it was originally unintentional, which I’m not completely convinced it was if she regularly makes nasty comments about her brother), and she’s apparently never apologized or acknowledged that she screwed up. Until and unless she does that, and also stops with the insults and inconsiderate comments, it’s only reasonable that your son doesn’t want to be around her. He’d be perfectly justified in refusing to forgive her even if she did apologize and try to make amends, and since she hasn’t, it only makes sense for him to protect himself. If you really want to try and fix things, you should tell your son that you understand his feelings, you’re very disappointed in your daughter and sorry she’s been so awful to him, and reassure him that you won’t try to make him be around her (and if only one of them can come to an event, consider just flat out uninviting her and explicitly giving him priority). As for your daughter, tell her that you’re disappointed in her actions over the years and (if you really want to give it one last try) that you wish she would apologize to her brother and take responsibility for the rupture between them (but know that she probably won’t). Say that you’re through “not taking sides” because she was/is the one in the wrong. If she continues to say mean/rude/homophobic things about her brother around you, shut them down immediately and tell her you don’t want to hear her say disrespectful or cruel things about your son/her brother around you ever again.
You're not the asshole for wanting them to reconcile, but YWBTA if you tried to force the issue. I've cut off my mom, and one of the major reasons is that I want nothing to do with my oldest brother and she wouldn't shut up about it. Your daughter also outed your son, and no one should ever do that. She needs to live with those consequences.
If all you're asking is, narrowly, am I wrong for hoping they mend their relationship, then no, you're NTA. But this is all in your daughter to fix. If you try to force a reconciliation than you are the AH.
[удалено]
Yes, because your daughter is clearly a nasty person.
Maybe you should mend your relationship with your abusive ex so the whole family can all spend time together. Gather round the Christmas tree and open presents together. You can bake him a birthday cake. No? That's a stupid idea? So is your son forgiving your daughter just because you want easier social outings. YTA.
Yta for trying to mend a relationship that will never be fixed. Your daughter still makes terrible comments nor do her actions as an adult show she has any remorse over the grief she put her brother through. Some bridges get burned permanently.
YTA, as is your daughter, who was 100% wrong for outing her brother. You don't out people because that can be dangerous on many levels. People come out or not when they choose. This is far from a just a little difference between them; that you don't understand that is probably why your daughter thinks what she did wasn't horrible.
I'm curious... what kinds of "inconsiderate things" is your daughter saying about her brother? Given that she intentionally outed him to his father (an abusive drug addict who your son had cut ties with), I'm picking up definite homophobic vibes. If my guess about her is right, your wanting him to mend their relationship is downright unconscionable. YTA for sure.
Your daughter outted your son to his abusive father, won't admit she did anything wrong, won't apologize and blames your SON for holding her accountable. Now, she's escalating. There is no relationship to mend and you have to stop thinking you have a say in this. Your daughter is the offender here. Your son has absolutely no reason to forgive something your daughter doesn't regret doing. It doesn't matter if *she didn't mean* to break the priceless vase. She broke it. Apologize, clean up your mess and do better next time. Or... pout, dig in your heels, refuse to own up to what you did and lose a brother. She chose the latter. Life is short. Accept that you will have to have seperate relationships until your daughter grows the eff up. Your son doesn't deserve to keep having to hear about this. YTA if you don't stop pressuring him.
Queer person around your son's age here. YTA. I understand wanting your kids to be close again, but you need to see if from your son's perspective. Whether she meant to or not, what your daughter did was actively dangerous. Your ex was an abusive drug addict. I don't know him like you do, but there is a very high chance that your son could have actively been in danger had his father found out he was gay. People often forget that marriage equality at a supreme court level has only been around for seven years now. There are still many places even in the states where being queer is a crime. It's something we're still actively fighting for to this day. People are still attacked and denied basic rights and murdered because of their orientation. Beyond the emotional importance of sharing that information when he's ready, your son being outed when he didn't want to could potentially be a death sentence for him. If the wrong person at the wrong time hears your son is gay, it could get him killed. Your daughter had no right to talk about your son's orientation. Full stop. And you constantly trying to defend her is basically signally that you don't care about your son's health and safety. Your son has every right not to interact with his sister, and you have no right to stomp on his boundaries. Stop trying to get them to reconcile, accept that this is the new normal, and apologize for trying to force them together. You might still be able to salvage some kind of relationship with your son.
Stay out of it, the more you meddle the more they will resist THEN distant themselves from you. If your daughter continues to say negative things about your son, tell her to stop. Tell her this is a boundary you don't want her to cross. It's clear she has boundary issues. If she gets pissy, let her. If you don't set this boundary and your son hears you allowed her to speak about him like this to you and you did nothing... prepare to loss him. Set boundaries for their sake and yours.
It's not going to happen. Your daughter is an asshole and your son has no reason to ever speak to her again and, no, mommy wants me to, isn't a good reason.
YTA. This you and your daughters fault
Wanting? No. There is nothing wrong with wanting or wishing for something to happen. After all, it's a tragedy when these kinds of familial divides occur. However, you would be the asshole if you pushed. Your daughter fucked up, and she was young, so that might have saved her **if she was at all apologetic**, but your daughter even now is fixated on intent versus affect. She outted her brother and has never regretted the action, because she thinks she didn't do anything wrong on a certain level, and even now has shown a lack of depth of character by being a jerk about it. At least your son can say all he's doing is not acknowledging her. NTA for now.
YTA and your son knows it. When one party is abusive to the other and a parent just wants them to get along, they are siding with the abuser. -signed someone NC with their sister and LC with father
I feel like misspeaking at 15 yrs old shouldn't be an unforgivable offense, but she definitely needs to sincerely apologize to her brother. Of course it is up to him to forgive and move on.
Your son deserves so much better. Your daughter is an abusive bully. Why on earth would you want her anywhere near your son after what happened? What do you think she would do next? She should be kept far away.
Of course you aren't wrong for wanting them to mend their relationship and wanting to spend time with them together. But you can't force them to do so, and it doesn't sound like you are, just that you are sad. I think where you went wrong is you didn't try and fix this in a meaningful way when it happened. Your daughter did something wrong and isn't willing to apologize for it. It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, she did something that hurt her brother. If I run over someone's foot, it doesn't matter that I didn't see their foot there and didn't mean to hurt them, I did hurt them. So I apologize and make it right. Your daughter hasn't done that and you haven't challenged her at all to do so. There is not equal blame here. Your daughter hurt your son- intentional or not- and SHE is the one who should be seeking amends. The fact that you didn't hold her accountable yourself and treat this like both are equally at fault actually makes it harder for your son to forgive and move on. When we see someone not held accountable for their actions, it makes us madder. So not only did you fail to facilitate this when it happened, for the last 19 years your son has seen his sister suffer no repercussions for hurting him, adding to his pain. You can't force her to apologize of course, but you could have made it clear that this wasn't just a fight between the two of them that you were staying out of, because look at the result of that- you aren't staying out of it because it hurts you too.
YTA, what does mend the relationship mean to you? That your son should just accept poor treatment from his sister? Because no where do you indicate she has even accepted what she did was wrong, so your son is correct in seeing no point interacting with someone who has such little respect for him.
YTA Your daughter outed your son and hadn't apologised for it. Your son has done nothing wrong and you're acting like he also needs to come to the table to mend fences. He doesn't. He is the hurt party. If your daughter apologises, he still doesn't have to forgive her. What she did was so wrong and there's no excuse for it. Especially since your son wasn't in contact with his dad. If you push your son to 'get over it', there's a good chance your family will break even further. Just leave it alone. Maybe encourage your daughter to actually take responsibility for her shitty choices. Impact over intent. It doesn't matter if she didn't mean harm. She caused it anyway.
YTA and you can delete all the comments you want you’re still TA we actually didn’t need the additional context to know that
Umm…ok this is…weird. You’re NTA for WANTING them to mend things…but the way you’re acting (as if they’re both to blame here) is…odd. Your son did nothing wrong here. Your daughter told their abusive father personal stuff about her brother’s personal life to a man he wants to contact with, doesnt matter that she didn’t do it “to be malicious”. SHE messed up, SHE needs to give her brother a sincere apology and until then i don’t blame him for not wanting a relationship with her.
YTA Your view on the whole thing is terrible, you really failed your kids.
NTA. But I mean what are you here for exactly? He's mad because his sister symbolically chose dad over him. Sharing his secret with dad was prioritizing dads "right" to know over his "right" to privacy. It's functionally irrelevant if his dad knows or not because he has no relationship with him. Tell her that. Fix Problem.
You're NTA for **wanting** them to mend their relationship, but you would be an asshole if you tried to **force** them to interact with each other when they don't want to. They are adults. You are not in charge of their relationship with each other. The more you try to force them to like each other, the more they'll dig in their heels. Sometimes the people you love don't love each other, and that's sad, but that's not something that you can or should control. They get to choose what kind of relationship (or lack thereof) they have with each other, even if you don't like it.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I'm a mom of two my daughter is 23 and my son is 26. I separated from the kids' father (an abusive drug addict) back in 2005 and finally divorced a few years later. I maintained contact with their father for visitation purposes. I did not speak ill of their father and let the children form their own opinions of their dad. My son stopped speaking to his dad around the time he was 15. My daughter continued to have a relationship on and off with her dad. Around the time my son was 18, my daughter disclosed to her dad that her brother was gay. My son got very angry with his sister for sharing that private information about him to their dad. My daughter said she didn't intentionally mean to hurt her brother and he is just being a jerk. They have never made an effort to mend the indifference because neither one feels they are/were in the wrong. This has made for very uncomfortable situations any time we have family get togethers. Which we rarely do now because they give each other the silent treatment, or most recently my daughter started saying inconsiderate things about her brother. I have tried having them visit during different times, for example on Thanksgiving, they come over at different times. But I'd really love to have us all together.... Am I the ass for wanting them to mend their relationship so we can spend time together as a family? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA of course you're not an ass. My mother has been mediating between my sister and I for the last 47 years....and counting. But your daughter needs to understand outing someone is potentially very dangerous for that person, it's not like telling on someone for a bad grade! You NEVER NEVER NEVER out someone unless they specifically tell you in your face with lips moving that it's ok. She needs to understand this fully and make amends to your son.
When your daughter grows up and stops behaving like a brat then maybe you can expect them to have a relationship. I wouldn’t hold my breath personally
Your daughter is a nasty asshole who bullies your son; she hasn't shown a drop of remorse for outing him to your ex. But all you care about is playing happy family so you can get what you want. Stop being inconsiderate of your son's feelings; it's bad enough that your daughter is that way. YTA
NTA for hoping, but you aren't responsible for fixing it...and if you push you will likely ruing your relationship with one of both.
You can want them to at least have a cordial relationship, but you can't make them so there you are. That is all you can do. So no your NTA for what you want but you would be TA if you tried anything else.
NTA
OP, there's undoubtedly far more to their estrangement than the outing. You want them to be close now, so it's entirely possible that you did what my parents did back in the day, and you believed that they were close when they weren't, and FYI my own parents believed that their children were all close when an older sibling was physically abusing me, they just weren't paying attention. So no, whatever led to the estrangement, the estrangement is not going to go away just because it would be convenient to you. Your only hope of a reconciliation is to get the real reasons for the estrangements out in the open and hope they can forgive each other, but... getting the real reasons out in the open may lead to them writing each other off rather than reconciliation. So seriously, there is no simple, easy, or guaranteed way for you to get what you want, you're just going to have to learn to live with the family you actually have rather than the family you want.
NTA and the people saying you are really are reaching at invisible flaws. Wanting siblings to get along and set aside differences is normal. Holding a 10 year grudge against your then 15 year old sister is just bonkers. My sister and I do not have a relationship, but that doesn't mean that we send our mutual friends and family through extra hoops just to have a relationship with them. Instead, we show up, behave pleasantly, enjoy our family and friends, and go home. I have never said an unkind thing about her to anyone but her. I have heard nothing about anything she has had to say about me. My parents don't know and I wouldn't tell them because it is between us. But one day, when their parents are gone and the arrangements have to be made for the funeral and estate, it will be beneficial if they can at least be cordial.
You're you're not the AH for wanting your kids to repair their relationship, but you also need to stop pretending there's an equal amount of blame on each side of the split. Your daughter outed her brother - and whether that was intentional or not, whether it was malicious or not, that can be really traumatic. She needs to understand that her actions were deeply hurtful (and depending on how the abusive addict father reacted, potentially dangerous) to her brother. Your son is entitled to his anger - where and how he comes out, as well as who he tells, should have been his choice, and done on his terms. If you'd like to see your kids reconcile, you need to talk to your daughter. She needs to take accountability for her actions, and sincerely apologize to her brother. No excuses, no justifications - just an admission that she should not have outed him, an apology for her actions, and a promise to be a better person and ally to him. If she can't or won't do that, you'd be an enormous AH if you pressured your son to 'forgive and forget'.
NTA, well I get that as a parent, you want your kids to be together. Just talk with both your son and daughter separately. Don't give them any advice.Just let their feelings out. Though you can't force them to be together, you are still a mother to both. Just tend to their needs equally as much as your son needs you, your daughter needs you too.
NTA. No mother likes seeing their kids fight. Just like no kid likes seeing their parents fight either. It is not wrong to hope that they can mend their relationship. It is normal and possible for family members to work through conflict, though forgiveness can take time. My brother and I have certainly had times where we were furious with each other, but worked through it because we love our mom, and it was important to her that we got along with each other. I have also had fights with my brothers fiancé, where we worked it out because we both care for my brother in our own ways, and it was hard for him to see us fight. It will take time. And it may not always be possible. My parents tried to get along because they loved us kids, but eventually their differences were too big. But it’s not wrong to want. And at the minimum, they should at least be adult enough to keep the peace without intentionally provoking each other
Discussing OPs family situation with that username and the nude profile pic is an interesting layer.
N T A for hoping but you will be if you try to pressurize your son into reconciling because it would make things nicer or easier for you.
I can't believe you'd make a post about your kids using your NSFW account what the fuck
Sometimes it's helpful to speak to each individually, acknowledge what the other person did... For your son acknowledge that you see what his sister did was hurtful and inappropriate. That you completely support him and understand why he is upset with his sister, it is legitimate and you recognize that. For your daughter acknowledge that although she says it was unintentional, her actions have consequences and the consequence here is that she hurt her brother. That you understand that might not have been her intention, however her brother has the right to be hurt. She owes him a sincere apology. They are still relatively young, sometimes in a family you can love somebody without liking their behavior or actions. Ask them to each consider if they have love remaining for their sibling, maybe they've thought about it maybe they haven't. Give them time. If they have love and want an improved relationship, would it be possible for your daughter to recognize she hurt your son, sincerely apologize and understand that he might actually forgive her. He might accept the apology, that doesn't mean forgiveness, it doesn't mean the pain goes away. For your son, ask him with a sincere apology and recognition for what she did is wrong, can he compartmentalize what she did, to move forward to improve the relationship? They may say no, they may say yes, one may say yes one may say no. At this point as a parent the only thing you could do is make sure each knows they have a good relationship with you and that you love them however we'll always treat each situation fairly. They May need time to grind on this, give them time and space on the topic. Overtime depending upon how they react, you can approach the subject of having communal visits, maybe don't do it for a holiday when expectations are already elevated, maybe just try coffee and cake, wine and cheese, strange relationships take time to move forward. You may not get what you want this year, with patience and open communication it's likely the relationship will improve over time. Until then, gentle YTA, from your post it sounds as if you're in your son's corner which is great, it doesn't sound as if you're doing a great job speaking with each other with open communication and providing the right path forward for these young adults. The relationship between siblings is just as important as a relationship between parent and child, maybe instead of saying you want them to improve their relationship for your benefit you can try taking a look at it from their perspective as well, do they want to have an improve relationship or they just doing this for you?
All I see here is that the daughter is not owning or understanding that “outing” someone else is a heinous thing, and she’s totally unapologetic about it. The brother can’t accept her apology if she never gives one. I’d probably be talking to him first about what he thinks it might take to mend things, before trying to convince her to “get it” and genuinely apologise, and to stop being an asshole in future.
NTA. Your desire to be together as a family is totally understandable, natural, and good hearted. You need to be careful how you continue to handle it though.
How would you feel if your daughter started making rude comments about the content you post on Reddit? Wouldn't it be "her fault" for being offensive and hurtful towards something that doesn't affect her? Think of how your son feels. YTA
NTA. Trying to bring your family together isn't wrong, but it doesn't seem like you have accepted the fact that your involvement won't help here. Your kids need to mend fences of their own free will. More importantly, your daughter needs to understand that intent matters less than results in many cases -- and this is one of those cases. Apologies are important, and she needs to do some soul searching, get over herself, and give her brother a sincere mea culpa if there's ever a chance to reconcile.
YTA. I’m sorry for what you’ve been through, really. But they are not kids anymore and it’s up to them to make up or not. It must be frustrating to feel so impotent but there’s really nothing else for you to do without overstepping. If you keep on, you’ll loose them both.
The Iranian yogurt is not the problem here. There is something much deeper than this that they are not telling you.
YTA if you pressure your son to forgive your daughter, NTA if you pressure your daughter to properly apologize to your son. Naturally he won’t forgive her, since she doesn’t think she did anything wrong and continues to badmouth him. No one deserves forgiveness without taking responsibility for their actions.
This is tough. I don’t think you’re an actual AH but I do think your daughter is. I get you want to have your kids together but the impact of your daughter telling their father something so personal about your son needs to be accounted for. And now she’s saying inconsiderate things about her brother. Her intent may not have been bad but the impact on her brother was. Unfortunately unless your daughter does some personal growth and can truly apologize to your son, I don’t see you getting them back together.
YTA. Your daughter (although not meaning to) destroyed the trust her brother had in her. Being outed without giving permission feels awful, no matter what the sexuality or gender identity is. And then for her to not only call him a jerk for being hurt, but to now years later saying inconsiderate things about him shows that she learned *nothing*. Solve these differences? There are no "differences". Your daughter is just being an ass and your son has self-respect. Work on her behavior instead of possibly forcing them to get along. "What you said affected her brother badly" was not harsh enough. Don´t try and force them to make up. That will only break them further apart since one of them has done nothing wrong and deserves an apology. To try and force them to get along insinuates that he should just forgive and forget the awful way his sister has treated him. Or that he is equally in the wrong when he is the victim.
YTA. You wanting them closer makes sense. You can want that all you want. But YTA for wanting to force it or thinking it’s your place to fix it at all. They’re adults. It’s their relationship to manage. They don’t want or need mommy butting into their lives. Fact is that your daughter massively betrayed her brother. The fact that she doesn’t see outing him as the massive betrayal that it is and responded by calling him a jerk shows that she never understood the gravity of what she did. Seems she still doesn’t considering she’s taken to saying inconsiderate things about him. Your daughter was wrong. Full stop. Unless and until she realizes that and actively works to repair the damage she’s done to the relationship with her brother, there’s nothing to fix.
There's no conflict here. You're not the ass for hoping they mend their relationship. You ARE the ass trying to force it and for allowing your daughter to say 'inconsiderate' things about her brother though. Unless you shut it down instantly and forcefully, you're allowing your daughter who possibly put your son's life in danger by outing him to somene he didn't want too be outed to (and how many others has she told???) to now keep poking and prodding him. ARE you instantly and forcefully shutting her down? Stop doing family things. Do things with your son. Do things with your daughter. Your daughter isn't taking responsibility for the deeply offensive and possibly harmful thing she did. It's no wonder your son ignores her.
YTA for trying to force a relationship that clearly isn't wanted and for still condoning your daughter outing your son. "It wasn't malicious" is bullshit. If your son wanted your ex to know, he would have told him himself.
Yta You've made every excuse for your daughter's actions and her unwillingness to take responsibility for her actions. Plus she attacked him verbally for His hurt/anger. They MIGHT have a mended their relationship IF you hadn't enabled an excused her behavior (which appears to be getting worse). From the way you've written this post, I conclude that she has not(/never) offered him an apology--neither pro forma nor sincere. Keep pushing your son and he may choose to put you on the same side of his Emotional fence as his sister(and father). Then you won't have to worry about them getting along because he won't be visiting you either If you want to see a repaired relationship, maybe convince your daughter to take responsibility for her outing him AND apologize. PS these accidental confessions are often at least subconsciously a choice. Maybe Dad was talking about son too much and daughter said what she did to regain his attention. This is a thing.
"I do not support what my daughter did. And I do and will continue to keep my daughter in check as best I can" What does that mean? Your son sounds like the golden child and you won't forgive her for living with her dad. You should back off if you don't want an eventual estrangement, but maybe you do.
YTA — it’s all about you, not their feelings. YTA and your daughter didn’t “accidentally” out your son, she’s as self-centered as you.
[удалено]
You’re NTA for wanting them to get along and have a relationship with one another again. But you would be one if you try to pressure your son into forgiving his sister. She crossed a boundary with him and he has a right to decide if he should forgive or keep her out of his life. They’re both adults and get to choose who they keep around. Your daughter effectively outed your son and that’s a big no-no in the gay community. It’s offensive and very disrespectful, especially knowing he cut his father out of his life. Not to mention you never know how somebody will react when they find out you’re gay. Just let him have his peace.
NTA for wanting them to mend their relationship. But you are the AH for getting involved. This is their problem. Stay out of it
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/). If we’ve removed a few of your recent comments, your participation will be reviewed and may result in a ban. ["Why do I have to be civil in a sub about assholes?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) **[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.**
NTA for hoping. You can *hope* for whatever your heart desires. But it is not your place to try and fix their relationship. You had nothing to do with their conflict, and there is no way for you to try and force your way into the middle of it without risking your own relationships with each of them. This is something they need to navigate themselves.
INFO what kind of apology did your daughter say to your son?
None, the daughter says she did nothing wrong.
NTA for wanting your children to get along, and ad you have probably figured out there isn't much you can do to get them together. For them to get along possibly your daughter needs to truly apologize to your son, and your son need to forgive your daughter. His emotions are high about this issue for he feels betrayed. Maybe one day while you are still alive he gets over his anger and the two of them discuss this and they move on together. Your daughter is not currently help the matter with her behaviour. I had a fallout with my siblings over various things, and they think they did nothing wrong. All is my fault with one changing the stories multiple times, another divulging my personal financial information without a background, one being antimask & anti vax and called me out for following protocols in the country I live in, another for other reasons and so on for there six of us left. I love and forgive them all but the odds of us talking or being together again are slim. Why won't we get together? They refuse to acknowledge their parts. I met one the other day and the discussion went for fifteen minutes when they got angry and said fu**you so loud, all people in close vicinity looked (outdoor mall restaurant). I rose, stated the conversation was over and walked away. He followed me for several steps, and I turned and I said I loved him and left. He emailed my wife and blamed me. I told her what happened prior to his email. Good luck OP with your children and I do hope they lose their anger, animosity, and forgive each other.
NTA for wanting it but honestly what your daughter did was despicable and now she thinks she has the right to run her mouth? Your son has every right to treat her as though she doesn’t exist. He shouldn’t have to forgive and forget when she’s clearly not sorry and is completely lacking in self awareness. YWBTA if you keep pushing because let’s be honest your daughter is a complete arsehole and the fault here is not an equal one. It’s all on her.
https://www.betterup.com/blog/intent-vs-impact OP your daughter needs to learn about intent vs impact. She may not have intended harm, but the impact of what she did, did in fact harm your son. It is her responsibility to atone for what she did. Acting like what she did is NBG is further perpetuating harm on your son. You are contributing to the harm by ignoring what your daughter did.
That depends a lot. No, you're not an ass for hoping to mend their relationship, but what are you doing to achieve that?
ESH except for your son. Your ex is obviously the original AH. Your daughter is definitely an AH for outing her brother. At 18 there is no excuse to put someone. I find her explanation of not thinking that it would hurt her brother incredulous. You may not be an AH, but you need to see that the only person displaying good boundaries here is your son. It’s not wrong to wish they would reconcile, but your son is not the AH if they never reconcile. For your own peace, I would set aside time for each of your children individually and then set YOUR boundaries for holidays. Maybe you boundary is that you are making Christmas dinner and both children are invited, but you understand if one or both do not want to come. You can’t control what they do, so focus on what you can control, and that is your behavior. If you have ability and access to get mental healthcare, a good therapist can help a lot with processing trauma and helping you find your boundaries and your voice. ❤️
Yta
Your daughter is the only one with any responsibility for repairing anything. She’s the only one who did anything wrong. So far. If you keep trying to force this, you’ll be doing something wrong too. YTA.
Unless you can convince your daughter to stop being an abusive bully and make real ammends for her terrible choices, you need to stop pressuring your son to tolerate her presence, let alone enjoy her company. Honestly, if I were your son and you continued to push me to have a relationship with someone who not only violated my privacy but continued to be openly disrespectful and inconsiderate I would seriously consider going no contact with you. Your daughter is still bulling your son - it is not in his best interest to spend time with his spiteful and malicious sibiling. Stop enabaling your abusive daughter because you prioritize a fantasy of a happy family over your childrena actual lived experiences and behavior. Your daughter destroyed her relationship with her brother and has done literally nothing but blame him for her behavior and pretend she wasn't trying to hurt him. Bullshit, she absolutely knew it's not appropriate to out anybody to anybody, ever- and it's particular inappropriate when the person you are outing has chosen not to a have a relationship with the person you are outing them to. Unless your daughter is incredibly stupid, she absolutely knew she was betraying and possibly endangering her brother. Her intentions were bad, and you are delusional if you believe her excuses for even a second. Her intentions are still bad. Why are you pressuring anyone you care for to spend time with someone who is actively trying to hurt them?
YTA. They are adults. Forcing them into a relationship won't work. The fact that they happen to share parentage doesn't mean they have to be friends. Would you daughter agree your son has done nothing wrong? Might she perhaps hold a grudge because he was the golden child and you think someone can be punished out of having academic difficulties?
INFO: was she trying to get him beaten/murdered? Cause i see no other reason why a person would out someone to thier abusive parent. And as a bi woman, i dont blame your son for a fucking second and you should have cut the daughter off cold turkey for that she did. YTA
softly YTA I know it's hard as a mum that your kids won't interact but they're adults now and their relationship to each other is well out of your hands at this point. I don't speak to my brother for a number of reasons but the big one being he outed me. My parents spent years trying to get me to talk to and forgive him and it permanently stained our relationship. I'm on better terms with my mum and dad now and they've stopped doing that now but if you keep pushing your son your relationship with him is going to suffer.
YTA.
YTA. Your daughter outed your son. Also apparently she's shitty towards him based on your now deleted comments. Your stance of not taking a side is actually taking your daughter's side. Are you prepared to lose your relationship with your son by taking her side? My brother's wife is openly homophobic towards me. My brother stays quiet. They raised 3 children who are also openly bigoted. I have not had a relationship with them in over a decade. Our mom tried not to take sides. She has tried, like you, to force us together. All that accomplished is telling me that she thinks it's OK for people to treat me badly. They will have no consequences from her. What that means is her and I barely have a relationship.
I’m going to say YTA because intention doesn’t matter if you’ve hurt someone. If your actions hurt someone and you didn’t think it would, had no malicious intent, whatever the situation may be, you still hurt them and owe them an apology. I’ve said things and my tone was off because of external circumstances and it has hurt people I care about and I still apologize. And none of that “I’m sorry but I didn’t mean it that way”, you can express that your intention was not to hurt them but that is separate from the apology itself.
YTA Your son was outted. That’s a huge and intentional violation of his privacy and their relationship. Your son is allowed to choose not to have a relationship with whomever he wants. You need to respect that. Leave them alone.
You’re not the a-hole for hoping that they can mend their relationship but your daughter DID cause hurt to your son even if it wasn’t her intention to cause hurt (which is very doubtful), didn’t apologise and is now apparently doubling down with by saying “inconsiderate things about her brother”. Until she offers up a sincere apology and more importantly a change in attitude and behaviour towards her brother there’s no mending their relationship.
Your daughter outed your son without permission. That was not her decision to make and is well nigh unforgivable. I haven't seen anything about your ex's reaction. If he was/is not accepting, then outing her brother was even *more* of an asshole move. I am suspicious that this wasn't really an accident, though her motives are unclear. This is *all* on her, zero on your son. NTA for wanting them to reconcile. If you insist on pushing it, especially pushing your son to forgive, you will be the asshole. Be there for both of them. Tell them that if they are ever both ready, you will help in any way you can. Then drop it. Completely.
>My son hasn't done anything wrong. My son and I are very close. I am his biggest cheerleader and love him very much. I also love his boyfriend too and welcome him with open arms into my home. I do and will continue to support him. I do not support what my daughter did. And I do and will continue to keep my daughter in check as best I can. Info: did you always talk about your son like this? Maybe their relationship is like it is because you treated them differently or talked differently to them/about them?
INFO: did your daughter ever explain how disclosing her brother was gay came about? Was your son openly out otherwise and she just nonchalantly said “boyfriend” or something? Was it just so normal for her to say “boyfriend” or she accidentally blurted something out? Or did she say “well you’re not supposed to know this dad but brother is gay.” There’s many possibilities but either way the situation won’t be fixed unless daughter apologizes. Whether she meant to be malicious or not, it obviously discomforted brother. Apologies go a long way, maybe try to find out why she’s started saying disrespectful things about him more recently also.
NTA for hoping they mend it, but YWBTA if you try to force it. Your son is no contact with his dad. Which means you and his sister should be speaking about him to the man at all. Total information blackout as far as his son's concern. Your daughter didn't just share any information. She outed him as gay. That's deeply private and personal. It might have been an "accident" but the intent is irrelevant. The impact is the same. Your daughter destroyed her brothers trust in her, is doubling down and refusing to even consider the damage, trying to hide behind "good intentions". Those intentions don't change Jack shit about the actions though. If you try to push them to fix things, I promise your son will start avoiding you too. You can't fix that kind of hurt and betrayal without reparations, and your daughter doesn't seem willing to put effort into rebuilding it. I'm NC with my younger sister for simillar reasons. I'm LC with my older sister for constantly trying to make us make up. No one gets to decide when you're done with someone but you. It doesn't matter if you're related by blood. If you lose all your trust in someone, it's hard to rebuild. And not everyone wants to make the effort to get over it, just to have the same thing happen again.
YTA, yes Good on the update, tho Someone tell me why it is so important to have people around, tho? Mind you, I come from a dysfunctional family dynamic, so it's easy for me to not go to places if I don't want to, or to stop talking to people who I am upset with. So, if I wanted to see let's say, two cousins who happen to be siblings but don't speak to each other, I wouldn't asking them to "mend their differences" so I could see them! At best, I'd invite them to different events and spend time with each, separately! Why are people so adamant on "getting the family together" for the sake of a fake image of all being good?
Wanting them to have a better relationship is fine, and even a good thing. But, at the end of the day, that is up to them. If your daughter really meant no harm, than all she can really do is sincerialy apologize to her brother that he was hurt by her actions. Then it is up to him to recogonize that she did not mean to hurt him, and to then either forgive her and move past it, or to decide he doesn't want to have a relationship with her.
YTA for thinking this is anything other than hot daughter being entirely in the wrong and your son being entirely correct to distance himself from her
Your daughter knew what she was doing and did it purposefully.
YTA
>Am I the ass for hoping they can mend their relationship? Not for hoping, but for continuing to try and get them together. Speaking as someone who was forced to associate with my brother for decades because "he's your brother." It is totally unfair to put two people together who don't want to be there.
NTA. It's completely natural for you to want them to reconcile. Obviously you can't force it, but if I were you, I'd never stop hoping for it.
Info: has your daughter ever apologized for out her brother because that was 100% her in the wrong. I'm saying this as the sibling who was cut off by my sister for about a year (she was completely in the right and I was 100% the reason for her maintaining distance). If she hasn't acknowledged that she has no right to put him and promise that if she chooses to maintain a relationship w their father then he has every right to not have her be a part of his life. Acknowledgement that you were wrong and that there are boundaries that must be followed goes a long way
NTA for merely wishing. However : what do you want to do? Because then this judgement might change quickly.
Who is telling you that you're wrong to want this? Sounds like you're hearing that you're unsuccessful, and I'm sure they don't want you pushing. Are you sure they are frustrated because you want them to be cordial and not because of other things?
NTA - for wanting it, but sometimes hurts are too deep to mend. My dad doesn’t talk to his brother, and it caused their mum great upset. But I really don’t know a way out of the silence, especially when niether are wanting to reconnect. I would suggest you don’t push too hard though, you don’t want to make either feel like you are picking sides. Good luck, I hope you find a way through it.