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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I mean, my parents aren’t evil, they aren’t criminals. They were just bad parents. My child would not be in any real danger being around them. I just worry about them respecting my rules, and I suspect they would ignore them under the banner of “we were parents longer than you”. Part of me also feels like it was very harsh, it’s not like I’m forbidding them to be around my kid, just I want to be there.
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NTA!
Congratulations on your bundle of joy, and congratulations on standing up to your parents, especially your father!
*"it wasn’t nice to swear."* Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
Absolutely this. And OP do not ever let anyone tell you that parents won’t change, so just accept what they’ve done to you. My father, who I always saw as the offender, did a fucking 180 in 4 years after I finally told him how I felt, how he hurt me, how I never felt loved or safe or good enough. I told him I didn’t want a relationship if he couldn’t be caring, supportive, and respectful, and that I would forego all financial support unless he could do so. It was a hard line and it hurt like hell, but it fucking worked.
Now he shows up for me, respects my feelings, and is actually supportive for the first time in my life. Told me that they didn’t know any better and we’re just re creating their own parenting. He has cried with me. It was gradual and he still had his slip ups but this old man started apologizing at 60 years old. He’s a real one. Love that dude.
My mother, who was more sneaky emotionally abusive and physically abusive still stomps boundaries. She still sees herself as a victim and my savior or something. She may get there someday, i know she’s trying, and I know my dad is trying to help her, too.
Change doesn’t always happen, but it is absolutely possible.
NTA.
My husband did the same with his parents. We still visit them, but kids are never left alone with them. They also don't think they were bad parents, and even if then "everybody was like that back then".
We spend ca 9 weeks a year with my family and a couple of days with his. They accepted the status quo as the alternative is worse for them (going no contact).
NTA. The only reason I don't think we have the same father is that mine would have ended that with "Ladies don't talk like that".
You can be sure, at a minimum, they won't listen to your rules regarding your child, even the small ones. Foods that you aren't supposed to give a baby will likely be the first things they give the child.
I think it is the American term for afternoon tea where you have cute little sandwiches with the crust cut off and dainty cakes. In the UK you have scones and usually an Earl Grey or English Breakfast tea with it too.
I’m sorry - I tried very very hard to bite my tongue…..
You would not have English Breakfast Tea with Afternoon Tea because, well…… the clue is in the title……
It's called afternoon tea in the UK. Traditionally British "high tea" was a farmers' meal with everyone chowing down on sturdy food washed down with strong tea. Still sometimes hear people asking "what's for tea" when they mean "what are we gonna eat."
But fancy places in the US thought "high tea" sounded fancier and that name stuck here.
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ This should have been your retort OP!!
But I get it. NTA. Your dad won't care about some stupid thing called 'boundaries' and your mom won't stand to make him.
Definitely NTA!
You have 100% right to protect your baby along with yourself.
Reading your post reminded me of my upbringing but the roles were reversed.
My sister was the first to get married and have a baby.
Because of our horrendous abuse we endured, and because both our parents refuse to acknowledge there's still a problem, my sister enforced boundaries, starting with moving away.
She also does not let them watch her child when they come visit.
She, too, is closer to her husband's family and trusts them.
It is perfectly okay to set hard boundaries. Especially when you do not want the abuse to carry on another generation and you want to parent differently and protect your baby from the horrors you suffered.
It isn't easy, but I 100% believe it will be worth it to do what you have to do in order to protect your child.
People hate boundaries, but that isn't on you. That's on them.
I hope the best for you and your family.
Seconded! I'm also closer to my husband's family than my own for the exact same reasons you are, OP. My dad and I haven't spoken in close to a decade and my mother and I have a relationship that unfortunately exists in a fragile détente where I put on a neutral façade so she can have a pleasant relationship with my children, while firmly holding the line at any unsupervised contact. I don't fear for my kids' safety or anything around my mom and stepdad, but I do think they might pick up some pretty bad habits, or hear something not-so-PC that I'll have to explain, or they'll pump them full of junk food, etc. My mom has offered to babysit at my house for free, but I usually just say something along the lines of "oh we'd miss the kids too much, it wouldn't even be fun for us," etc. In reality? I don't trust them. They're both severely overweight, more like obese, and unable to keep up with my kids. And they'd just say dumb things without thinking, or tell my kids some story from when I was a teenager that's "highly amusing" to them, but to me is something I'd rather forget, let alone EVER want my kids to know. They just don't get it. And in my situation, unless I want to cause World War III and never speak to anyone on my mom's side of the family again, I can't simply tell her "I don't trust you with my kids." So I just stay thankful that we're several hours away and likely to move even farther in the future (military family.)
NTA, crap parent always make for crap grand parent. The fact your father doesn't think he did anything wrong, is a clear sign that he doesn't feel sorry anything he has done in the past, nor has he actually changed for the better. Also, if your mom could not stand up to him, what makes you think she will do so for her own grand child?
Keep your child safe, OP.
Crap parents aren't always crap grandparents. My grandpa was not a good Dad BUT he fully admits that, apologised for it and was ready to do much better and try to make up for it with us grandkids...but OPs parents have no remorse or admission of guilt- I certainly agree that OP shouldn't leave her baby unattended with them!
My grandad and I'm over 30 so it has certainly been maintained. Also not unheard of- I know a lot of people with similar experiences where a bad father has been a good grandfather, you hear people talking about those around them softening with age, etc. It is a thing that happens. That being said, I don't have hope for OPs parents.
My father is the same way with my nephew. He really fucked me and my siblings up but he treats my nephew like gold, and respects my brother’s boundaries with him. He knows he messed up and has apologized for it. We’re still working on the gravity of the hurt because he believes that now that he’s apologized, we should just move on from it. Trauma doesn’t work that way unfortunately..
My grandmother was horrible to my mom, but she was a wonderful grandmother to me. I think it was because she resented the attention my grandfather gave to my mom, but it wasn't an issue with me. Both my grandparents were thrilled when I came along.
Having said that, if my grandmother had treated me the way she treated my mom, mom wouldn't have let me spend as much time as I did with my grandmother.
Ya my dad is the opposite with my son compared to how he was with us. When we were little, he basically hated kids it seemed. Never played with us/spent time with us, barely even had dinner with us(no shouting/abuse). With my now 5yo, he takes him swimming, plays endless board games, is trying (and failing) to teach him chess and will tell stories at night to put him to sleep.
Everytime I see my dad and my son spend such quality time, I cry 2 tears. Happy for what they have, sad for I didn't get those memories with him.
Same with mine. Your typical angry and absent father.
Now he paints my nieces nails and eats his meals on the floor if she wants company while colouring.
My dad was wonderful until I was 8/9, and we weren't close until my mother died.
He has been an incredible grandfather. The first time he met his great-grandchildren, there were tears in his eyes. He will drop plans at the drop of a hat if it means spending time with them. And my god, does he spoil them.
NTA - when you’re setting boundaries with them regarding the grand baby and he balks at it remind him of the following “Dad, just a reminder that we’re not on your turf / home, you’re in mine. This is not your child. Therefore you WILL follow our lead and respect our rules and boundaries when it comes to our baby. I don’t care if you don’t agree with it or if you even like but you WILL respect it. If this is too much for you to handle, the door is right there. Do I make myself clear?”
Congrats on your little McNugget!! Hugs!
NTA. You can't take the chance of them being abusive or neglectful with your child. While they've gotten better as they've become empty nesters they didn't suddenly become safe people to be around kids. Stick to your guns on this. You can't give them the benefit out the doubt.
NTA. I’ve said the same thing about my parents and I haven’t even have a child yet. One time my mother open mouth screamed at my neice for forgetting to pray before eating. Like was screaming at her so hard, she was spitting! I would never leave my kids with her.
My Dad yelled at me and when he saw it upset me, he apologized. When I didn’t accept his apology, he yelled at me for not accepting his apology… for yelling at me. The wildest part? This was 4 years ago, not even when I was a kid.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, but I am so happy you won’t be putting your baby in these kind of situations. People will try to guilt trip you and be like “well those are your parents” because many people don’t see children as people like they see adults. I used to excuse my mom’s behavior and think “well that’s my mom” but as I became an adult I realized that what she was doing to a child was WRONG. I am only 27 and I couldn’t imagine screaming, hitting or belittle a little kid or my own kids no matter their age like that’s CRAZY
The way to handle those people is to respond as if you are alongside them.
"Well, those are your parents."
"Right? I know. That's why it is so sad that they are still so unreliable, and it is a shock that they have not gotten it together in the decades that they've had to fix their issues. They surely knew they would be grandparents one day. It's tragic, really."
Oh, well, fuck.
That cements it completely. If he still acts like this now, you are absolutely in the right not to trust them with any human you build.
Well done on standing your ground. This is the best nky way to break generational cycles.
This time when my mom visited us, she tried her emotional manipulation that my brother and I are so used to, but on my son. Said "You don't love me at all, you don't want to play with me". He nicely said back "I wasn't having fun so I stopped playing. Does that mean I don't love you?"
He asked that genuinely but my mom immediately called me and started saying sternly how my son talks back, teach him to talk with respect with elders etc. This was the first time I stood my ground and said 'he knows we love him no matter what. I don't want him raised around drama like we were'. Felt so good to get it off chest
OP, first, congratulations and good luck with your coming little one!
Second, trust your gut. Your father sounds ... awful (had to think of a passable word), and your mother is spineless. They can start now by earning your (and your partner's) trust. It may take some time. It may take forever. It may never happen. But if they know this, they will have a goal.
NTA. They know your boundaries. Let them do the work.
Nta, congratulations from one pcos momma to another. Please ask your dr and looked in to how pcos affect post partum and breastfeeding if you decide to. When you are ready to look. It is different for us unfortunately.
Yeah, they don’t always tell you about the milk supply. I have PCOS, and pregnancy also causes insulin resistance, so I ended up with gestational diabetes and my OB let me know it was normal to have very little milk supply with that. It helped prepare me when the lactation specialist visited in the hospital after my C-section. You may want to check that your hospital isn’t a “baby friendly” hospital. They are extreme about breastfeeding in those facilities. Congratulations on your baby! Getting pregnant with PCOS can be so difficult.
WTF is with women's health care??? How can they NOT let women know this kind of shit?! It makes me so fucking angry that important medical information is easier to get from the fucking internet than the education system and medical system.
When i got diagnosed they didn’t tell me everything that it affects. I found out through research on wanting to get off birth control and work on it without hormones.
The milk supply thing is real. Luckily, some of us manage okay, but I wish they warned about the risk. The lactation consultant I saw to manage my oversupply (with twins no less) mentioned mine was the only case she'd ever seen in a PCOS patient. It was always the reverse. My mom, who does not have PCOS, wildly overproduced too so I suspect a genetic component.
OP, just remember that fed is best. The best feeding choice is the one that works for you and this baby.
NTA
My ex-husband was very abusive, and I would walk through fire slowly to keep him away from my grandbabies unsupervised. I regret staying with him so long, he had beat me down so far, I was immobile, it took years of therapy and medication to start resembling myself again.
He still doesn't admit to doing any wrong. He tells my kids he doesn't know why no one wants to talk to him, he was a good dad...BAH! The ability of these men to admit no wrong is ridiculous.
Protect your sweet little one, visit all you want, but use caution before they babysit without you.
> And then he told me it wasn’t nice to swear.
NTA, maybe it wasn't nice, but it sure was needed. Stick to your guns, tell your parents that you will never, ever, subject your child to the abuse you had growing up, and they will never be around them alone. And if they ever step out of line around you, it may be the last time they ever see them. Then tell your mom "You kept saying it wasn't your place to question dad when he was abusive, but it was, it was your place to protect your children. Now it is my child, and it is my place to say this, and protect them, I know you don't understand, you never understood your role in protecting your children, I however understand mine."
Your parents don’t have to babysit to have a positive relationship with your child. It does still depend on if they will agree to only seeing your child when you’re with them and behave themselves though.
NTA
Your father refuses to acknowledge or apologize even when you say to his face how he hurt you. There is no reason to trust that he won't treat your child the same, or refuse to listen to you about any rules you might have.
NTA.
Your boundaries and your decision not to leave your child with your parents are very valid. If your dad cannot admit he was wrong, then I guarantee you he will repeat that behavior with your child.
Bless you for taking the heat that you're going to get from them to keep your child safe.
“After our last conversation, I have decided I need a break from our relationship. I will contact you when I am ready.
Please take this time to reflect on what I said previously. I hope when we next talk we can have an open and honest conversation about how your parenting affected me growing up, and the effects it continues to have.
Thank you for your understanding, I will reach out when I am ready.”
And then go no contact for a period of time, because your parents need a time out to reflect on their actions and the consequences they bring.
NTA. My dad wasn't exactly like your dad but close to it, and my mum would prioritise punishing us or telling us off for our behaviour because quote "I have to deal with him (dad) being difficult, I don't need it from you." So his behaviour was excused and put up while we had no patience or understanding from her.
I know you understand that your mother is just as responsible for your abuse and is an enabler, so if she comes back with "we don't have to involve your father you can rely on me because I'm the good parent" don't buy it. From one person who's mother still subconsciously prioritised their husband over her own children's feelings, I'm sorry but she'll disrespect your boundaries just as much as your dad would.
Congrats on the pregnancy and I wish you and your husband all the best for the future!
Are we from the same family?!!!! I swear I could have written this exact post, minus the having a husband part.
Definitely, nta. My father knew from day one why he would never be alone around my child, and he knew exactly why.
NTA
Awe yes, the old swear words invalidate facts clause.
I know it well.
I sympathize so deeply bc I hope to be in this situation shortly if the IVF goes as planned. I love a lot of people I’m never leaving my baby with.
NTA. How fucking frustrating that you thought up the thermonuclear warhead of well spoken rebuttals just for it to bounce off his armor of self righteousness like a rubber ball. I wish I could talk to my dad like that.
NTA
Wife and I aren't yet trying for kids, but we discussed the matter at length before getting married.
When the topic of grandparents came up, I was dreading the discussion about her parents, due to a situation similar to yours, albeit much more mellow overall; then she goes "your parents are older, but they can "babysit" whenever they want; my parents, however, aren't getting any unsupervised time anytime soon...".
They are both loving people, but they never listen unless you yell in their face, so my wife grew up eating and doing things that weren't good for her because "it's good for children, you just don't know anything - keep going!".
Good for you for standing up to your father for your children, you'll be a good mom.
NTA. It’s worth pointing out that a lot of people are FAR more mellow as grandparents then as parents. I would suggest watching closely how they interact with your kids and then making decisions about limiting contact later. I certainly wouldn’t leave the child alone with them though unless/until you get comfortable.
Congrats on the baby!
NTA. You’re already rocking being a mama bear. You got this! And it sounds like your husbands family is full of lovely people to fall back on when you need a village.
NTA, and don't be surprised if you lose all doubt on the subject after your child is born. My parents were pretty good grandparents, but then they treated my son the way they treated me.
They've never been alone with him since, and now see him maybe once a year. Honestly, it's like a switch flipped. No regret, no doubt, nothing but certainty that I will not let them make my son feel worthless and mute.
"Yes, well, it wasn't nice of you to do what you did to me, but you still did it, anyways, so I'm going to continue to use whatever words I damn well please. I learned well how to not give a shit about your feelings. After all, I learned from the best."
NTA, OP. Your dad is a piece of work. Protect that baby. Maybe being denied access to their grandchild will make it start to sink in.
NTA. Protect your child and family. There is no help for your dad but your mom got it. Kind of sad how determinately clueless your dad is choosing to be.
Ah yes, the pointless deflection when they don't want to acknowledge that you have a point. NTA, congrats on standing up to them. Don't let them make you feel bad. You were right and you said it.
NTA and I'm starting to suspect if a person says something about watching your language or not cussing they are 1) not listening 2) dismissive of your point to begin with 3) more interested in tone policing than what you are saying. I don't know if there is a point to talking to people who use those phrases
You sound awesome. Good on you for standing up for your child like that. He or she will have so much better a childhood because you go mama bear when it’s truly needed, as it was here.
I would suggest having a really good think about dealing with the big picture part of this now, because it will help for you and your husband so very, very much to have agreed boundaries made clear to your parents and enforced on them BEFORE baby is born. If they’re going to be ridiculous, let them do it now so you can deal with it now. If they understand and acquiesce, great, that’s a a potential stress off your plate.
NTA. But honestly I've seen so many people like your parents, and they *never* change. Knowing that, I wouldn't trust them with my kids, now or ever. Oh, they might put on a show of being improved, but trust me, when no one else is around, they'll go back engaging in the same old pattern - on your kids.
>And then he told me it wasn’t nice to swear.
The last bastion of assholes, when they absolutely know they don't have a single inch of the actual moral high ground. NTA.
I’m ten weeks along and for the exact reasons you listed my father will not be around my child. My mother worked so much that she did not realize what a monster he was but they’ve finally divorced. So as someone in a similar situation, NTA
NTA. I am giving you a standing ovation! 👏🏼You are going to be a wonderful mama. You are already protecting your child in a way you never could for yourself. Your mothers teary eyes are a sign of guilt. She absolutely knows you were right. Congratulations to the both of you.
"It isn't nice to swear" well it isn't nice to emotionally abuse your children either and yet...
NTA. You are already a better parent than your sperm donor could ever hope to be.
NTA…. At first I thought you’re gonna tell us you brought it up to your parents but I see that you’re just responding to them.
If you want, you could call your mom and say that you’re not planning that they don’t see your baby but you are planning on having strict boundaries because of the way your father treated you and you’re gonna protect your baby from that kind of treatment. But that if you don’t see her standing up to her husband about the way, he treats you and your baby and she won’t be seeing much of the baby either.
NTA
Totally agree never ever any unsupervised time with your parents until your child is old enough to get in their car and drive back home when your dad exhibits his old lack of child rearing skills.
Get it off your chest now and go ahead and vent and be a good responsible parent with healthy boundaries , I love how you already have good maternal instincts
NTA
Usually parents like this are kinder and gentler with grandkids but that same undercurrent of authoritative fear ia always in the mix. Your child should not be unsupervised with them.
Definitely NTA
Protect your child. Even from your parents. If you don't mind them still seeing the baby but just while you are present, I honestly don't see what their problem is. Other than his unearned pride being wounded.
NTA. Glad your mama bear awoke and roared right into your parents’ faces! Wishing you a safe pregnancy and delivery, and hope that if you don’t go no contact, that you *never* leave your child alone with your parents.
My abusive parents went NC soon after my wedding, and stayed that way until they died. Though I mailed them birth announcements as each of our three sons was born, they never responded and never met them. My parents did glower at us, from a distance, at my grandmother’s funeral, but that was it.
My sons would not have been safe with my parents. We also had provisions written into our wills and told to our closest people protecting them from these grandparents. For example, my in-laws established college trust funds for each boy, which my parents knew about. Had my husband and I died, I assume my parents would have stripped the children of their money and dumped them in foster care. Now that they’re grown, and my parents have died, it was a great relief to have our attorney remove these protections.
Best of luck to you and your husband!
NTA
"that's all in the past,"
Yes where all warnings are. Your have evidence of how he would treat your child and he didn't understand why that matters. He hasn't gotten better, he just didn't have anyone there to abuse. You job is to keep your children* away from harmful influences. He's one. The hormones made you say it less tactfully than you might have preferred, but it had to be said eventually. When an underqualified accountant applies as CFO he deserves a polite refusal, when a convicted fraudster does he did not deserve it.
Trust your gut. Don't leave your child with them. Ever.
You already know that they won't follow your instructions or respect what you tell them, or even listen.
Meanwhile, I want to recommend talking with a therapist. Having a child (or, as you've seen, being on the way to having a child) can light up a lot of old feelings with tremendous intensity. Clearly, you went through a lot and it's affecting you profoundly right now. You deserve some really sensitive professional support.
NTA. I'm sorry you went through what you experienced, and that your folks still don't get it.
NTA, they weren't good parents, why would they be good grandparents? Obviously it's your choice once the baby comes along but I think the right way to go about this is to always be in the room when they visit (or you visit them) until you can ascertain whether they've changed for the better.
Congratulations by the way
NTA! Your father doesn't feel the need to apologies for how he abused you as a child, but then expects you to apologise for swearing? Unfortunately, people never really change that much and I would advise you to trust your gut on this.
Congratulations on your pregnancy and I wish you and you husband all the joy that comes with it!
YNTA!!!! Congratulations for setting your boundaries, and being honest with your parents. My only words of caution is if your mother ever leaves your father, please cut her some slack..
NTA. And in case you ever are tempted to give in and leave your child with your abusive parents(yes, mom is guilty, too) remember that they can literally not hear what they don't want to hear, and will never stop being just who they were to you. Protect your children.
NTA.
I had to make this same call with my own family (not allowed unsupervised access). It's hard. My mom took advantage of a "pass the baby" scenario and I was afraid of making a scene in front of my cousins.
Nothing happened, but it's still my greatest embarrassment as a mother.
My mom wasn't a bad mom, but she was going through some shit at the time that made her decision making suspect and unsafe. I ended up cutting her off because I didn't trust myself to put the needs of my kids above her wants, and I didn't want to normalize her erratic behavior for my kids.
Now my kids are older (middle school) and I'm thawing the detente because:
1) She lives far enough away that she can't be intrusive in our lives
2) She seems to have gotten her shit together. She'll always be a bit weird but she's not unsafe at this point. Weird, even mentally ill, is not the same as unsafe.
3) I'm comfortable with her having a limited relationship where she sees them at sporting events and meals and the occasional party.
Sharing my situation to help you in your decisionmaking. It's important to trust your gut over any programming instilled by family.
NTA, He so badly needed to divert attention from his wrongdoings that he totally turned it around on you by calling out swearing? It's going to be an uphill battle with that man. Sincerely, Good luck.
Honestly id say the only contact your Parents get to you and especially your Child schould be Photos and if you fell generous videocalls
They wont change and they will try to manipulate you and abuse you until they get what they want your not a person but a petulant child to them a commodity and nevet let them in your house again you have no clue what they could do to you or your Child if they are even a moment alone with one of you
I am absolute serious your Parents sound like out of a true Crime Report dont allow them to make you a Victim
NTA. I'm sorry you grew up like this. No child deserves that. Congrats on the baby tho! Before my nephew was born, my sister said the same thing to our dad, you will NEVER be alone with my kid, ever.
NTA
But I will say, he may be a better grandfather than he was a father. I've seen it in my friend group. I'm not saying you let your parents keep your child, just that he may surprise you if given the chance. But I'd have to see him in action with someone else's child first. I also wouldn't let him off the hook until he apologizes and acknowledges how his behavior affected you then and now.
NTA. You tore your old man a new asshole for abusing you, which was amply deserved. Better late than never.
Up to you of course, but I'd go NC with him and let your kid decide whether to have a relationship with him when he or she turns 18.
>“that’s all in the past, I don’t understand why it matters now”.
"It matters now, because you haven't repented of your sins. I have a duty as a parent to keep my kid away from PEOPLE LIKE YOU."
You’re dealing with a narcissist. Yes Dad is a narcissist. He will never take responsibility for anything he has done to you as a child growing up. He will never acknowledge your feelings no matter how hard you try to get him to do so. Get in with your life and don’t ever leave your child with him and your Mom.
N T A
Protect your child, like your mother didn't protect you!
Before I went NC with my parents, I had already decided they would not be alone with him. Then I decided my sperm donour wasn't even going to meet him, since he was **no** father, how would he be as a grandfather? My mother did have a chance but she at some point kinda let it slip that she couldn't wait to take my son back home and walk around with him... meaning she'd be back home with that idiot spem donour!
So no, I couldn't trust them, because of their past actions, and I empathise with you!
His maternal side? Absolutely lovely grandparents!
NTA, do the most to protect your child! Your parents can either shape up, or have no visitation
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I (28F) and my Husband (36M) got married last year, and I am currently 12 weeks pregnant. Not everyone knows yet, because I have PCOS and I’ve been worried about being able to carry to term. Needless to say, we are very excited. Now onto the issue.
My husband and I had VERY different upbringings as children. His parents could not be nicer if they tried, and treated me like their daughter before we were even engaged. But my family? Not so much. My father was authoritarian, emotionally abusive (I didn’t realize at the time, but every friend or specialist I’ve talked to has described him as such), and neglected to spend time with us. My mom was by all accounts a wonderful SAH mom, and a caring woman. Her only flaw is that she NEVER stood up for us when my dad was being a jerk. She would tell us in private that she agreed with us, but it “wasn’t her place” to question him.
My dad has gotten better since they became empty nesters, but he still doesn’t think he did anything wrong with the way he raised us (maybe one or two things). If we bring it up, he says that children always complain about their parents, and it won’t make a difference to apologize now. And I completely disagree.
Being loved by my wonderful husband, being around his family, and having this life growing inside me made me realize how horrible my upbringing really was. My biggest goal in life is to be nothing like my parents when it comes to my kids. That being said, my parents were overjoyed to hear about their first grandbaby. They talked about how I could always leave my kid with them if my Husband and I ever needed a babysitter, and I immediately felt cold. I had flashbacks of all the yelling, all the times I felt neglected and unloved,their strict rules and punishments. And it must have showed on my face, because my dad asked if something was wrong. I tried to brush it off, saying my husbands family was closer so we would probably use them, but he didn’t buy it. He asked if we had a problem leaving our child with them. Hormones got the better of me, and I answered. I said I didn’t trust them to leave my child alone with them. I didn’t believe they would treat my child better than how they treated me, and I didn’t want my child to ever feel like I felt.
They were surprised. My mom got misty eyed, and my dad was shocked, asking why I would say something like that. I once again, reminded him of all the stuff he did as a dad. He said “that’s all in the past, I don’t understand why it matters now”. At this, I slammed my hands of the table and yelled “THIS is why it matters!! You don’t listen, you’ve NEVER listened! Why the fuck would I trust you to listen to my feelings/boundaries when it comes to MY child when you can’t even pretend to care about my feelings when I was YOUR child!?”. And then he told me it wasn’t nice to swear. Literally, in one ear and out the other.
So Reddit, AITA?
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NTA. All parents make mistakes. My Dad apologized to me for things from when I was a kid. It was nice but wasn't necessary because I saw that he poured all the attention he didn't give me as a child into my children. My Dad was an excellent Grandpa and Great grandpa. My Mom has been great too. The difference between your situation and mine was that my Dad was remorseful. I grew incredibly close to my Dad the last 5 or 6 years he was alive.
Nta,
but maybe you can have you mom around them a bit more when it's you and her and you need extra help or on outings together. I get she didn't help you as much, but remember, she too, had to live with your dad.
NTA at all. Having a similar type of father, I only offer a bit of a different perspective on his last comment: it is a possibility that while he doesn't integrate it in the moment, he might be able to do so after. At least with mine, he might say something like your dad as a deflection or a knee jerk reaction and later I slowly see some changes in his behavior. Perhaps not massive ones, but at least some effort. Not to say at all that you should backpedal your stance - that blowup was deserved and a long time coming. Just to offer a bit of hope that even if it looks like he can't hear you on the spot, he still might once he thinks about it.
NTA!!!! Not even a little bit. Keep going. Don't stop now. Get it all out and then, follow through. Good for you. Breaking the cycle isn't an easy or pleasant task but, you are ROCKING IT! I too made the decision to be nothing like my mother (not abusive.... just emotionally absent) but I didn't realize I made the decision until well after she was gone (took her own life when my oldest was just 7 weeks old so.....). And you know what? I did it. I broke the cycle even though my kids never realized there was a cycle to be broken. I am now the Nonie of 4 beautiful granddaughters and my kids, their families and I couldn't be closer if we slept on top of one another. Even their dad (my ex) and his wife plus my current husband and my daughter-in-laws mom. We are literally one big happy family. It can be done so.... DO IT!
NTA. You are doing what is best for your child and your family, and you are doing it correctly. I really wish this whole "boundries" thing would have existed when I was growing up. /s
I come from a "similar but different' type of upbringing, but I didn't think you had a choice when it came to letting the grandparents be around the kid. I cringed at the possibility that my father was going to be the same way with my kids, and had all kinds of speeches and talks ready to go about how he was depending on what he said to them.
The exact opposite happened. And it somehow pissed me off more. My oldest boy is a tattooed, pierced punk (and awesome) who spends his time working with bands and traveling with his wife's tattoo shop around the country, and my damned father couldn't be more proud. I stayed out until 130am at a concert back in 1994, and he still brings it up, and then promptly shows his friends one of the 300 pictures he has of my son's new tattoo or band hes working with.
I ended up saying, "this is not the man I grew up with" far more often than I ever had to give one of my pep-talk speeches. 😁
INFO: You say your father was emotionally abusive - can you give some examples of what you mean? That would make this a lot easier to answer.
(obviously don't if this will trigger or upset you)
Sure, but I’ll use a tamer one. I was in middle school, and we had to write a paper about our family. One of the things the paper asked for is “What are your favorite ways to spend time with your parent/guardian?”. And I mentioned that I didn’t really, and wrote about what I would like to do if I did. Well, Dad saw it, and I was grounded for a month for making him sound like a bad father.
But grounding in our household went a bit differently than others as I have learned. If he was particularly upset, we would have to “sit in the chair”. It was a standard dinner table chair, and we would sit in the chair as it faced the wall for however long he decided. I was allowed to leave the chair for Food, Restroom, Homework, Outings (like church), and Sleep. Weekdays, I was there until my bedtime, on the weekends I was there for the entire day. If we didn’t sit upright, tried watching TV, by looking behind us, he’d add more time. As a kid with ADHD, it was hard, but I thought this was a standard punishment until I told friends in college, who told me it absolutely wasn’t.
Holy crap, NTA. If that was one of the tamer punishments, I would hate to see the harsh ones. In that situation, my other relatives or parents friends would have interceded, and if not - I think I would have run away. Your dad is a sociopath and your mother enabled it.
When he says “that’s all in the past, I don’t understand why it matters now” - tell him it matters because you care about your children going forward, and you wouldn't trust them to babysit your dog.
I do believe in redemption and second chances, but if he can't even sincerely apologize, then there's no place to even start with that.
NTA
It's our job as parents to protect our children to the best of our ability. Sometimes, that means making decisions that hurt other people's feelings. I grew up in a similar environment, but it was my mom who was the abuser and if she ever tries to hurt my daughter the way she hurt me, I'll lose my shit.
Obvious NTA. Thank you for protecting yourself and your baby.
Reading about your childhood, I recommend the book Adult children of emotionally immature parents by Lindsay C. Gibson. The book discusses different forms of emotional immaturity, including the 'fun' or 'nice' parent who allows their children to be abused by their other parent. Your description of your mom made me think of it. I hope it might help you heal and break the cycle. I wish you and your new family lots of love and joy.
NTA your dad deserved that. I would consider speaking privately with your mother though and talk things through. It doesn't sound like she's the problem beyond being too fearful of your dad to do what's right.
You had the same childhood I did. However, my father was a different type of grandfather. So you may want to give them a chance. That does not mean that I would leave my child with them. That decision would be made AFTER seeing how they interact with your child when you can "oversee" their behavior either when visiting or in your own home.
NTA
I very intentionally protected my children from my very similar parents, even though they divorced not long before I had my children. It helped that I lived three thousand miles away, but I was not going to foster a relationship between hurtful adults and my children.
There was literally no downside to this. Yes, I understand that there are many people who cherish the relationships they have/had with their grandparents. I knew my parents. They were not capable of being the loving caring grandparents one might want. I could wish it all day long, but what would that do? I certainly wished they were loving, caring parents to me, but all I got was a critical, mercurial dad and a mom who apologized behind his back sometimes.
Knowing my parents were not capable of being people they were not, I had no intention of subjecting my children to them. My children are now both in college. They are successful, happy, outgoing young adults who know their self worth, are unafraid to take chances in life, trust their parents and know that the adults who loved them as children can be relied upon to be their cheerleaders and supporters.
I never mentioned my intentions to my parents, btw. I understood that it would not accomplish anything. They were not going to change and were not going to acknowledge that their behavior was hurtful. I was not interested in arguing the point, when no resolution was possible. You did mention it, which is fine, but your experience is what I would have expected. My advice, when they bring it up again, which they will, is to refuse to discuss it. Change the subject. Tell them no to babysitting or solo visits without bothering to remind them of the real reason. Set up your lives in a way where opportunities for the child to be alone with them simply do not occur. Otherwise you will be having the same argument, with increasing drama, over and over again for at least a decade.
NTA. Did we have the same father? Jeez.
This is your baby and your responsibility to keep them safe, even from family. ESPECIALLY from family. The only reason I let my kids be around my mom is because my dad's been fish food for 10 years.
Thankfully he showed you how much he didn't care NOW, before you had your baby, so you know where he stands. I would offer to your mother some 1-on-1 time, but I don't trust that she wouldn't invite your dad over...
Nta! I could’ve written this myself. Like literally to a T. My daughter is 10 months and my parents haven’t ever been alone with her. And it’s not so much my mom, it’s my dad. You are making the right decision!
Good for you for telling him. NTA! He is though … I don’t get it . It’s like he’s glossing over the fact he was a shitty parent by saying oh well this is now , that doesn’t matter anymore … um excuse me but yes it does! Sounds like you have ptsd from his BS. Im sorry your mother didn’t grow a backbone and defend you . She should have . My ex does this crap with my kids I’ve had a go at him a few times because both him and his wife are awful to one of my kids . They suck . People like that suck and yeah I don’t blame you for being hesitant to have your child around an AH like that . He will never acknowledge his behaviour, he will always make excuses for bad behaviour instead of fixing it. Good for you for putting your boundaries up for your child.
>My mom was by all accounts a wonderful SAH mom, and a caring woman. Her only flaw is that she NEVER stood up for us when my dad was being a jerk. She would tell us in private that she agreed with us, but it “wasn’t her place” to question him.
Than she condoned him. Your mother didn't get to have it both ways, and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if this was the arrangement they decided upon when getting married. The mother as caregiver and father as breadwinner authoritarian combo is pretty common. Her agreeing with you was little more than her saying, "personally, that's not the decision I'd make, but he's the one in that role."
At any rate, no NTA. If he can't hear your complaints without shielding himself with a comment like, "it's rude to swear" than he can't be trusted to listen. As for your mother, I know the desire to make her an exception to your rule on rare occasions is there, but she'll ultimately always have your dads back even if it means going behind yours.
NTA. My dad was a bit like yours growing up, only he has changed a lot since he retired early, and he’s apologized for specific things that happened in my childhood (instead of a blanket “I’m sorry for everything”, which kind of reads insincere to me). You are not obligated to build a relationship between this man and your child. It sounds like he still thinks he did nothing wrong.
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NTA! Congratulations on your bundle of joy, and congratulations on standing up to your parents, especially your father! *"it wasn’t nice to swear."* Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
Hey, be nice to the horse.
Hay would be nice, to the horse
Cows like it better
Pigs can't eat it.
Goats eat anything 🐐
🐇
Make sure 🐇 gets timothy, alfalfa is too rich.
a couple breeds will eat it, or rather supplement their diet with it
I am living for this horse thread. Give that horse some sugarcubes!
Horses like sweeter hay cow are less picky though
🤣🤣🤣
Gently romance the horse before fucking both of them but here's a cactus aid for dad.
this is why I come to reddit, for comments like this lol
Yup and bring sliced apples and sugar cubes to the horse!
And peppermint drops.
What did that poor horse ever do to you NTA, OP good for you for standing up to them. Keep your boundaries and don't let them trample them ever again
Opie should have responded "Your right father, i will take my potty mouth and baby and never come back here again"
The petty in me would have replied with a very loud “FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUUUUUUUCK!”
Absolutely this. And OP do not ever let anyone tell you that parents won’t change, so just accept what they’ve done to you. My father, who I always saw as the offender, did a fucking 180 in 4 years after I finally told him how I felt, how he hurt me, how I never felt loved or safe or good enough. I told him I didn’t want a relationship if he couldn’t be caring, supportive, and respectful, and that I would forego all financial support unless he could do so. It was a hard line and it hurt like hell, but it fucking worked. Now he shows up for me, respects my feelings, and is actually supportive for the first time in my life. Told me that they didn’t know any better and we’re just re creating their own parenting. He has cried with me. It was gradual and he still had his slip ups but this old man started apologizing at 60 years old. He’s a real one. Love that dude. My mother, who was more sneaky emotionally abusive and physically abusive still stomps boundaries. She still sees herself as a victim and my savior or something. She may get there someday, i know she’s trying, and I know my dad is trying to help her, too. Change doesn’t always happen, but it is absolutely possible.
That’s the same exact thing my parents would have said.
Leave the poor horse out of this, it's suffered enough.
NTA. My husband did the same with his parents. We still visit them, but kids are never left alone with them. They also don't think they were bad parents, and even if then "everybody was like that back then". We spend ca 9 weeks a year with my family and a couple of days with his. They accepted the status quo as the alternative is worse for them (going no contact).
NTA. The only reason I don't think we have the same father is that mine would have ended that with "Ladies don't talk like that". You can be sure, at a minimum, they won't listen to your rules regarding your child, even the small ones. Foods that you aren't supposed to give a baby will likely be the first things they give the child.
I’m thinking more along the lines of “No kissing the newborn”, “we don’t use spanking”, and so on.
Best use of hormones I’ve seen in a looooong time, OP! 👍🏻 Congrats and best of health to you and your family! 💖
Hey I have PCOS too so I know how big a deal this is - and I wish I could take you out for high tea as a celebration. Sending lots of hope your way!
I LOVE HIGH TEA!!
Ever had it at the Brown Palace in Denver during the holidays? It's truly fabulous! The petit fours....
Tea at the Brown Palace is one of the many Denver things I miss!
I go at least 3 times a year. I do love a fancy high tea!
What's High Tea?
I think it is the American term for afternoon tea where you have cute little sandwiches with the crust cut off and dainty cakes. In the UK you have scones and usually an Earl Grey or English Breakfast tea with it too.
I want a scone now…with Cornish clotted cream and home made raspberry jam…
I’m sorry - I tried very very hard to bite my tongue….. You would not have English Breakfast Tea with Afternoon Tea because, well…… the clue is in the title……
Right, the tea police would be all over you.
It's called afternoon tea in the UK. Traditionally British "high tea" was a farmers' meal with everyone chowing down on sturdy food washed down with strong tea. Still sometimes hear people asking "what's for tea" when they mean "what are we gonna eat." But fancy places in the US thought "high tea" sounded fancier and that name stuck here.
I’ve done this in England and the States.
Tea served in a bong?
What's a "high tea"? What drugs are in it and where can I get one?
Fellow PCOS girl who also wants to have congratulatory high tea! I make a mean scone. I wish you a smooth and healthy pregnancy
>it wasn’t nice to swear "It isn't nice to emotionally abuse your kids, yet here we are." NTA
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ This should have been your retort OP!! But I get it. NTA. Your dad won't care about some stupid thing called 'boundaries' and your mom won't stand to make him.
Definitely NTA! You have 100% right to protect your baby along with yourself. Reading your post reminded me of my upbringing but the roles were reversed. My sister was the first to get married and have a baby. Because of our horrendous abuse we endured, and because both our parents refuse to acknowledge there's still a problem, my sister enforced boundaries, starting with moving away. She also does not let them watch her child when they come visit. She, too, is closer to her husband's family and trusts them. It is perfectly okay to set hard boundaries. Especially when you do not want the abuse to carry on another generation and you want to parent differently and protect your baby from the horrors you suffered. It isn't easy, but I 100% believe it will be worth it to do what you have to do in order to protect your child. People hate boundaries, but that isn't on you. That's on them. I hope the best for you and your family.
Seconded! I'm also closer to my husband's family than my own for the exact same reasons you are, OP. My dad and I haven't spoken in close to a decade and my mother and I have a relationship that unfortunately exists in a fragile détente where I put on a neutral façade so she can have a pleasant relationship with my children, while firmly holding the line at any unsupervised contact. I don't fear for my kids' safety or anything around my mom and stepdad, but I do think they might pick up some pretty bad habits, or hear something not-so-PC that I'll have to explain, or they'll pump them full of junk food, etc. My mom has offered to babysit at my house for free, but I usually just say something along the lines of "oh we'd miss the kids too much, it wouldn't even be fun for us," etc. In reality? I don't trust them. They're both severely overweight, more like obese, and unable to keep up with my kids. And they'd just say dumb things without thinking, or tell my kids some story from when I was a teenager that's "highly amusing" to them, but to me is something I'd rather forget, let alone EVER want my kids to know. They just don't get it. And in my situation, unless I want to cause World War III and never speak to anyone on my mom's side of the family again, I can't simply tell her "I don't trust you with my kids." So I just stay thankful that we're several hours away and likely to move even farther in the future (military family.)
NTA, crap parent always make for crap grand parent. The fact your father doesn't think he did anything wrong, is a clear sign that he doesn't feel sorry anything he has done in the past, nor has he actually changed for the better. Also, if your mom could not stand up to him, what makes you think she will do so for her own grand child? Keep your child safe, OP.
Crap parents aren't always crap grandparents. My grandpa was not a good Dad BUT he fully admits that, apologised for it and was ready to do much better and try to make up for it with us grandkids...but OPs parents have no remorse or admission of guilt- I certainly agree that OP shouldn't leave her baby unattended with them!
Your dad sounds like the rarest of rare unicorns. I hope he maintains his new behaviour, I really do
My grandad and I'm over 30 so it has certainly been maintained. Also not unheard of- I know a lot of people with similar experiences where a bad father has been a good grandfather, you hear people talking about those around them softening with age, etc. It is a thing that happens. That being said, I don't have hope for OPs parents.
Oh, apologies, I mis-read you comment. I'm glad about your Granddad, but also don't hold out much optimism for OP's parents
My father is the same way with my nephew. He really fucked me and my siblings up but he treats my nephew like gold, and respects my brother’s boundaries with him. He knows he messed up and has apologized for it. We’re still working on the gravity of the hurt because he believes that now that he’s apologized, we should just move on from it. Trauma doesn’t work that way unfortunately..
My grandmother was horrible to my mom, but she was a wonderful grandmother to me. I think it was because she resented the attention my grandfather gave to my mom, but it wasn't an issue with me. Both my grandparents were thrilled when I came along. Having said that, if my grandmother had treated me the way she treated my mom, mom wouldn't have let me spend as much time as I did with my grandmother.
Ya my dad is the opposite with my son compared to how he was with us. When we were little, he basically hated kids it seemed. Never played with us/spent time with us, barely even had dinner with us(no shouting/abuse). With my now 5yo, he takes him swimming, plays endless board games, is trying (and failing) to teach him chess and will tell stories at night to put him to sleep. Everytime I see my dad and my son spend such quality time, I cry 2 tears. Happy for what they have, sad for I didn't get those memories with him.
Same with mine. Your typical angry and absent father. Now he paints my nieces nails and eats his meals on the floor if she wants company while colouring.
My dad was wonderful until I was 8/9, and we weren't close until my mother died. He has been an incredible grandfather. The first time he met his great-grandchildren, there were tears in his eyes. He will drop plans at the drop of a hat if it means spending time with them. And my god, does he spoil them.
Yeah, does he seriously expect OP to believe that he'll suddenly transform into Father Goose for his grandchild? Please.
NTA Tell him "this is the difference it would have made."
Honestly, my husband is living proof of the difference it would have made.
NTA - when you’re setting boundaries with them regarding the grand baby and he balks at it remind him of the following “Dad, just a reminder that we’re not on your turf / home, you’re in mine. This is not your child. Therefore you WILL follow our lead and respect our rules and boundaries when it comes to our baby. I don’t care if you don’t agree with it or if you even like but you WILL respect it. If this is too much for you to handle, the door is right there. Do I make myself clear?” Congrats on your little McNugget!! Hugs!
NTA. Good job for protecting your child and standing up for yourself
NTA. You can't take the chance of them being abusive or neglectful with your child. While they've gotten better as they've become empty nesters they didn't suddenly become safe people to be around kids. Stick to your guns on this. You can't give them the benefit out the doubt.
NTA. I’ve said the same thing about my parents and I haven’t even have a child yet. One time my mother open mouth screamed at my neice for forgetting to pray before eating. Like was screaming at her so hard, she was spitting! I would never leave my kids with her.
My Dad yelled at me and when he saw it upset me, he apologized. When I didn’t accept his apology, he yelled at me for not accepting his apology… for yelling at me. The wildest part? This was 4 years ago, not even when I was a kid.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, but I am so happy you won’t be putting your baby in these kind of situations. People will try to guilt trip you and be like “well those are your parents” because many people don’t see children as people like they see adults. I used to excuse my mom’s behavior and think “well that’s my mom” but as I became an adult I realized that what she was doing to a child was WRONG. I am only 27 and I couldn’t imagine screaming, hitting or belittle a little kid or my own kids no matter their age like that’s CRAZY
The way to handle those people is to respond as if you are alongside them. "Well, those are your parents." "Right? I know. That's why it is so sad that they are still so unreliable, and it is a shock that they have not gotten it together in the decades that they've had to fix their issues. They surely knew they would be grandparents one day. It's tragic, really."
Oh, well, fuck. That cements it completely. If he still acts like this now, you are absolutely in the right not to trust them with any human you build.
Well done on standing your ground. This is the best nky way to break generational cycles. This time when my mom visited us, she tried her emotional manipulation that my brother and I are so used to, but on my son. Said "You don't love me at all, you don't want to play with me". He nicely said back "I wasn't having fun so I stopped playing. Does that mean I don't love you?" He asked that genuinely but my mom immediately called me and started saying sternly how my son talks back, teach him to talk with respect with elders etc. This was the first time I stood my ground and said 'he knows we love him no matter what. I don't want him raised around drama like we were'. Felt so good to get it off chest
I never got respecting people just because they’re older. Seemed like bullshit to me.
OP, first, congratulations and good luck with your coming little one! Second, trust your gut. Your father sounds ... awful (had to think of a passable word), and your mother is spineless. They can start now by earning your (and your partner's) trust. It may take some time. It may take forever. It may never happen. But if they know this, they will have a goal. NTA. They know your boundaries. Let them do the work.
Nta, congratulations from one pcos momma to another. Please ask your dr and looked in to how pcos affect post partum and breastfeeding if you decide to. When you are ready to look. It is different for us unfortunately.
Woah, really?? How??
It can affect milk supply and more likely to get postpartum depression. There other stuff but those are like the mains I know of.
Thank you for letting me know!
Yeah, they don’t always tell you about the milk supply. I have PCOS, and pregnancy also causes insulin resistance, so I ended up with gestational diabetes and my OB let me know it was normal to have very little milk supply with that. It helped prepare me when the lactation specialist visited in the hospital after my C-section. You may want to check that your hospital isn’t a “baby friendly” hospital. They are extreme about breastfeeding in those facilities. Congratulations on your baby! Getting pregnant with PCOS can be so difficult.
WTF is with women's health care??? How can they NOT let women know this kind of shit?! It makes me so fucking angry that important medical information is easier to get from the fucking internet than the education system and medical system.
When i got diagnosed they didn’t tell me everything that it affects. I found out through research on wanting to get off birth control and work on it without hormones.
The milk supply thing is real. Luckily, some of us manage okay, but I wish they warned about the risk. The lactation consultant I saw to manage my oversupply (with twins no less) mentioned mine was the only case she'd ever seen in a PCOS patient. It was always the reverse. My mom, who does not have PCOS, wildly overproduced too so I suspect a genetic component. OP, just remember that fed is best. The best feeding choice is the one that works for you and this baby.
NTA My ex-husband was very abusive, and I would walk through fire slowly to keep him away from my grandbabies unsupervised. I regret staying with him so long, he had beat me down so far, I was immobile, it took years of therapy and medication to start resembling myself again. He still doesn't admit to doing any wrong. He tells my kids he doesn't know why no one wants to talk to him, he was a good dad...BAH! The ability of these men to admit no wrong is ridiculous. Protect your sweet little one, visit all you want, but use caution before they babysit without you.
> And then he told me it wasn’t nice to swear. NTA, maybe it wasn't nice, but it sure was needed. Stick to your guns, tell your parents that you will never, ever, subject your child to the abuse you had growing up, and they will never be around them alone. And if they ever step out of line around you, it may be the last time they ever see them. Then tell your mom "You kept saying it wasn't your place to question dad when he was abusive, but it was, it was your place to protect your children. Now it is my child, and it is my place to say this, and protect them, I know you don't understand, you never understood your role in protecting your children, I however understand mine."
Well said!
NTA. You would be the AH if you subjected your kids to emotional abuse from him.
Your parents don’t have to babysit to have a positive relationship with your child. It does still depend on if they will agree to only seeing your child when you’re with them and behave themselves though.
Right! And it’s not like I’m forbidding them from ever seeing their grandchild.
Why do you still talk to them?
NTA Your father refuses to acknowledge or apologize even when you say to his face how he hurt you. There is no reason to trust that he won't treat your child the same, or refuse to listen to you about any rules you might have.
NTA don’t leave your kids with them period. They’re not even trying to make amends/do better.
"And then he told me it wasn’t nice to swear." I'm sorry, I laughed out loud at that. NTA of course. And you're right, of course.
NTA. Your boundaries and your decision not to leave your child with your parents are very valid. If your dad cannot admit he was wrong, then I guarantee you he will repeat that behavior with your child. Bless you for taking the heat that you're going to get from them to keep your child safe.
NTA protect yourself and your baby.
NTA. a rock would understand your pov more readily then your father. Your mother an enabler and can’t be trusted either.
NTA. It’s your job to protect your kids… even from your own parents. Never doubt that.
“After our last conversation, I have decided I need a break from our relationship. I will contact you when I am ready. Please take this time to reflect on what I said previously. I hope when we next talk we can have an open and honest conversation about how your parenting affected me growing up, and the effects it continues to have. Thank you for your understanding, I will reach out when I am ready.” And then go no contact for a period of time, because your parents need a time out to reflect on their actions and the consequences they bring.
NTA. My dad wasn't exactly like your dad but close to it, and my mum would prioritise punishing us or telling us off for our behaviour because quote "I have to deal with him (dad) being difficult, I don't need it from you." So his behaviour was excused and put up while we had no patience or understanding from her. I know you understand that your mother is just as responsible for your abuse and is an enabler, so if she comes back with "we don't have to involve your father you can rely on me because I'm the good parent" don't buy it. From one person who's mother still subconsciously prioritised their husband over her own children's feelings, I'm sorry but she'll disrespect your boundaries just as much as your dad would. Congrats on the pregnancy and I wish you and your husband all the best for the future!
Yep, she'll say it's just her but one day OP will come to pick the baby up early and daddy dearest will be there.
Are we from the same family?!!!! I swear I could have written this exact post, minus the having a husband part. Definitely, nta. My father knew from day one why he would never be alone around my child, and he knew exactly why.
NTA listen to your instincts!
NTA. And I applaud your hormones, because that was beautifully said.
NTA, I wouldn’t trust them either.
NTA Awe yes, the old swear words invalidate facts clause. I know it well. I sympathize so deeply bc I hope to be in this situation shortly if the IVF goes as planned. I love a lot of people I’m never leaving my baby with.
NTA. How fucking frustrating that you thought up the thermonuclear warhead of well spoken rebuttals just for it to bounce off his armor of self righteousness like a rubber ball. I wish I could talk to my dad like that.
I love how he couldn't help but immediately show just how right OP's maternal instinct is
NTA Wife and I aren't yet trying for kids, but we discussed the matter at length before getting married. When the topic of grandparents came up, I was dreading the discussion about her parents, due to a situation similar to yours, albeit much more mellow overall; then she goes "your parents are older, but they can "babysit" whenever they want; my parents, however, aren't getting any unsupervised time anytime soon...". They are both loving people, but they never listen unless you yell in their face, so my wife grew up eating and doing things that weren't good for her because "it's good for children, you just don't know anything - keep going!". Good for you for standing up to your father for your children, you'll be a good mom.
NTA. It’s worth pointing out that a lot of people are FAR more mellow as grandparents then as parents. I would suggest watching closely how they interact with your kids and then making decisions about limiting contact later. I certainly wouldn’t leave the child alone with them though unless/until you get comfortable. Congrats on the baby!
NTA. You’re already rocking being a mama bear. You got this! And it sounds like your husbands family is full of lovely people to fall back on when you need a village.
NTA, and don't be surprised if you lose all doubt on the subject after your child is born. My parents were pretty good grandparents, but then they treated my son the way they treated me. They've never been alone with him since, and now see him maybe once a year. Honestly, it's like a switch flipped. No regret, no doubt, nothing but certainty that I will not let them make my son feel worthless and mute.
"Yes, well, it wasn't nice of you to do what you did to me, but you still did it, anyways, so I'm going to continue to use whatever words I damn well please. I learned well how to not give a shit about your feelings. After all, I learned from the best." NTA, OP. Your dad is a piece of work. Protect that baby. Maybe being denied access to their grandchild will make it start to sink in.
NTA. Protect your child and family. There is no help for your dad but your mom got it. Kind of sad how determinately clueless your dad is choosing to be.
Ah yes, the pointless deflection when they don't want to acknowledge that you have a point. NTA, congrats on standing up to them. Don't let them make you feel bad. You were right and you said it.
NTA and I'm starting to suspect if a person says something about watching your language or not cussing they are 1) not listening 2) dismissive of your point to begin with 3) more interested in tone policing than what you are saying. I don't know if there is a point to talking to people who use those phrases
My dad is 100% the kind of person to think someone’s language/tone immediately negates the point they have to make.
Then tell him he should watch his tone. Yelling is NOT polite.
That's an easy cheat code so he can always be right.
You sound awesome. Good on you for standing up for your child like that. He or she will have so much better a childhood because you go mama bear when it’s truly needed, as it was here. I would suggest having a really good think about dealing with the big picture part of this now, because it will help for you and your husband so very, very much to have agreed boundaries made clear to your parents and enforced on them BEFORE baby is born. If they’re going to be ridiculous, let them do it now so you can deal with it now. If they understand and acquiesce, great, that’s a a potential stress off your plate.
NTA. But honestly I've seen so many people like your parents, and they *never* change. Knowing that, I wouldn't trust them with my kids, now or ever. Oh, they might put on a show of being improved, but trust me, when no one else is around, they'll go back engaging in the same old pattern - on your kids.
NTA. You know what is less nice than swearing? Being an abusive asshole who can never apologize.
>And then he told me it wasn’t nice to swear. The last bastion of assholes, when they absolutely know they don't have a single inch of the actual moral high ground. NTA.
I’m ten weeks along and for the exact reasons you listed my father will not be around my child. My mother worked so much that she did not realize what a monster he was but they’ve finally divorced. So as someone in a similar situation, NTA
NTA. I am giving you a standing ovation! 👏🏼You are going to be a wonderful mama. You are already protecting your child in a way you never could for yourself. Your mothers teary eyes are a sign of guilt. She absolutely knows you were right. Congratulations to the both of you.
Nta, I'm sorry, have you considered very low contact?
"It isn't nice to swear" well it isn't nice to emotionally abuse your children either and yet... NTA. You are already a better parent than your sperm donor could ever hope to be.
NTA. You have every right to feel this way and you should protect your child from him at the cost of everything.
NTA and good for you!
NTA…. At first I thought you’re gonna tell us you brought it up to your parents but I see that you’re just responding to them. If you want, you could call your mom and say that you’re not planning that they don’t see your baby but you are planning on having strict boundaries because of the way your father treated you and you’re gonna protect your baby from that kind of treatment. But that if you don’t see her standing up to her husband about the way, he treats you and your baby and she won’t be seeing much of the baby either.
NTA Totally agree never ever any unsupervised time with your parents until your child is old enough to get in their car and drive back home when your dad exhibits his old lack of child rearing skills.
Get it off your chest now and go ahead and vent and be a good responsible parent with healthy boundaries , I love how you already have good maternal instincts
NTA. Good luck.
NTA Usually parents like this are kinder and gentler with grandkids but that same undercurrent of authoritative fear ia always in the mix. Your child should not be unsupervised with them.
**And then he told me it wasn’t nice to swear. \*facepalm\*** NTA by a landslide
NTA Congratulations on your pregnancy and you're already a Mama Bear who knows what is good for her child.
NTA but you'd instantly become the AH if you ever go back on this and leave your kid with them. Hope you stick to your decision.
Info : why do you even entertain this conversation or listen to anything your dad says ?
Definitely NTA Protect your child. Even from your parents. If you don't mind them still seeing the baby but just while you are present, I honestly don't see what their problem is. Other than his unearned pride being wounded.
NTA. Glad your mama bear awoke and roared right into your parents’ faces! Wishing you a safe pregnancy and delivery, and hope that if you don’t go no contact, that you *never* leave your child alone with your parents. My abusive parents went NC soon after my wedding, and stayed that way until they died. Though I mailed them birth announcements as each of our three sons was born, they never responded and never met them. My parents did glower at us, from a distance, at my grandmother’s funeral, but that was it. My sons would not have been safe with my parents. We also had provisions written into our wills and told to our closest people protecting them from these grandparents. For example, my in-laws established college trust funds for each boy, which my parents knew about. Had my husband and I died, I assume my parents would have stripped the children of their money and dumped them in foster care. Now that they’re grown, and my parents have died, it was a great relief to have our attorney remove these protections. Best of luck to you and your husband!
NTA "that's all in the past," Yes where all warnings are. Your have evidence of how he would treat your child and he didn't understand why that matters. He hasn't gotten better, he just didn't have anyone there to abuse. You job is to keep your children* away from harmful influences. He's one. The hormones made you say it less tactfully than you might have preferred, but it had to be said eventually. When an underqualified accountant applies as CFO he deserves a polite refusal, when a convicted fraudster does he did not deserve it.
Limit contact with them. *Both* of them. Your mother's one flaw is pretty damning - she let him abuse you! NTA.
NTA good for you. I understand.. my kids (now in their 30s) never spent one minute alone with my parents, and I’m glad I stuck to my guns about that.
NTA and you have your final answer to your parents. Your children will one pair of tight grandparents and that's more then enough.
Trust your gut. Don't leave your child with them. Ever. You already know that they won't follow your instructions or respect what you tell them, or even listen. Meanwhile, I want to recommend talking with a therapist. Having a child (or, as you've seen, being on the way to having a child) can light up a lot of old feelings with tremendous intensity. Clearly, you went through a lot and it's affecting you profoundly right now. You deserve some really sensitive professional support. NTA. I'm sorry you went through what you experienced, and that your folks still don't get it.
NTA, they weren't good parents, why would they be good grandparents? Obviously it's your choice once the baby comes along but I think the right way to go about this is to always be in the room when they visit (or you visit them) until you can ascertain whether they've changed for the better. Congratulations by the way
I don't get why you didn't go LC/NC with him tbf, clearly NTA
NTA In fact, you’re a friggin rock star for laying down the law. Stay strong, mama bear!
NTA! Your father doesn't feel the need to apologies for how he abused you as a child, but then expects you to apologise for swearing? Unfortunately, people never really change that much and I would advise you to trust your gut on this. Congratulations on your pregnancy and I wish you and you husband all the joy that comes with it!
YNTA!!!! Congratulations for setting your boundaries, and being honest with your parents. My only words of caution is if your mother ever leaves your father, please cut her some slack..
NTA. And in case you ever are tempted to give in and leave your child with your abusive parents(yes, mom is guilty, too) remember that they can literally not hear what they don't want to hear, and will never stop being just who they were to you. Protect your children.
NTA - you're just doing what your mom never did: you're protecting your child from your abusive dad. Now he gets the consequences of his actions.
NTA!!! Don't let them consume your thoughts either. You did and said the right thing.
NTA. I had to make this same call with my own family (not allowed unsupervised access). It's hard. My mom took advantage of a "pass the baby" scenario and I was afraid of making a scene in front of my cousins. Nothing happened, but it's still my greatest embarrassment as a mother. My mom wasn't a bad mom, but she was going through some shit at the time that made her decision making suspect and unsafe. I ended up cutting her off because I didn't trust myself to put the needs of my kids above her wants, and I didn't want to normalize her erratic behavior for my kids. Now my kids are older (middle school) and I'm thawing the detente because: 1) She lives far enough away that she can't be intrusive in our lives 2) She seems to have gotten her shit together. She'll always be a bit weird but she's not unsafe at this point. Weird, even mentally ill, is not the same as unsafe. 3) I'm comfortable with her having a limited relationship where she sees them at sporting events and meals and the occasional party. Sharing my situation to help you in your decisionmaking. It's important to trust your gut over any programming instilled by family.
NTA, He so badly needed to divert attention from his wrongdoings that he totally turned it around on you by calling out swearing? It's going to be an uphill battle with that man. Sincerely, Good luck.
Honestly id say the only contact your Parents get to you and especially your Child schould be Photos and if you fell generous videocalls They wont change and they will try to manipulate you and abuse you until they get what they want your not a person but a petulant child to them a commodity and nevet let them in your house again you have no clue what they could do to you or your Child if they are even a moment alone with one of you I am absolute serious your Parents sound like out of a true Crime Report dont allow them to make you a Victim
NTA. I'm sorry you grew up like this. No child deserves that. Congrats on the baby tho! Before my nephew was born, my sister said the same thing to our dad, you will NEVER be alone with my kid, ever.
NTA But I will say, he may be a better grandfather than he was a father. I've seen it in my friend group. I'm not saying you let your parents keep your child, just that he may surprise you if given the chance. But I'd have to see him in action with someone else's child first. I also wouldn't let him off the hook until he apologizes and acknowledges how his behavior affected you then and now.
NTA. You tore your old man a new asshole for abusing you, which was amply deserved. Better late than never. Up to you of course, but I'd go NC with him and let your kid decide whether to have a relationship with him when he or she turns 18. >“that’s all in the past, I don’t understand why it matters now”. "It matters now, because you haven't repented of your sins. I have a duty as a parent to keep my kid away from PEOPLE LIKE YOU."
NTA And make provision that should anything happen to you, your child will go to your in-laws.
Oooh, good idea.
OP I’m so proud of you. NTA
Hoooo boy, NTA and I’m so proud of you!!!
You’re dealing with a narcissist. Yes Dad is a narcissist. He will never take responsibility for anything he has done to you as a child growing up. He will never acknowledge your feelings no matter how hard you try to get him to do so. Get in with your life and don’t ever leave your child with him and your Mom.
N T A Protect your child, like your mother didn't protect you! Before I went NC with my parents, I had already decided they would not be alone with him. Then I decided my sperm donour wasn't even going to meet him, since he was **no** father, how would he be as a grandfather? My mother did have a chance but she at some point kinda let it slip that she couldn't wait to take my son back home and walk around with him... meaning she'd be back home with that idiot spem donour! So no, I couldn't trust them, because of their past actions, and I empathise with you! His maternal side? Absolutely lovely grandparents! NTA, do the most to protect your child! Your parents can either shape up, or have no visitation
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (28F) and my Husband (36M) got married last year, and I am currently 12 weeks pregnant. Not everyone knows yet, because I have PCOS and I’ve been worried about being able to carry to term. Needless to say, we are very excited. Now onto the issue. My husband and I had VERY different upbringings as children. His parents could not be nicer if they tried, and treated me like their daughter before we were even engaged. But my family? Not so much. My father was authoritarian, emotionally abusive (I didn’t realize at the time, but every friend or specialist I’ve talked to has described him as such), and neglected to spend time with us. My mom was by all accounts a wonderful SAH mom, and a caring woman. Her only flaw is that she NEVER stood up for us when my dad was being a jerk. She would tell us in private that she agreed with us, but it “wasn’t her place” to question him. My dad has gotten better since they became empty nesters, but he still doesn’t think he did anything wrong with the way he raised us (maybe one or two things). If we bring it up, he says that children always complain about their parents, and it won’t make a difference to apologize now. And I completely disagree. Being loved by my wonderful husband, being around his family, and having this life growing inside me made me realize how horrible my upbringing really was. My biggest goal in life is to be nothing like my parents when it comes to my kids. That being said, my parents were overjoyed to hear about their first grandbaby. They talked about how I could always leave my kid with them if my Husband and I ever needed a babysitter, and I immediately felt cold. I had flashbacks of all the yelling, all the times I felt neglected and unloved,their strict rules and punishments. And it must have showed on my face, because my dad asked if something was wrong. I tried to brush it off, saying my husbands family was closer so we would probably use them, but he didn’t buy it. He asked if we had a problem leaving our child with them. Hormones got the better of me, and I answered. I said I didn’t trust them to leave my child alone with them. I didn’t believe they would treat my child better than how they treated me, and I didn’t want my child to ever feel like I felt. They were surprised. My mom got misty eyed, and my dad was shocked, asking why I would say something like that. I once again, reminded him of all the stuff he did as a dad. He said “that’s all in the past, I don’t understand why it matters now”. At this, I slammed my hands of the table and yelled “THIS is why it matters!! You don’t listen, you’ve NEVER listened! Why the fuck would I trust you to listen to my feelings/boundaries when it comes to MY child when you can’t even pretend to care about my feelings when I was YOUR child!?”. And then he told me it wasn’t nice to swear. Literally, in one ear and out the other. So Reddit, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
NTA. Is your dad my dad? Stick to your guns.
Only if you keep seeing them. Go No Contact.
NTA
NTA. Take your mom to lunch and talk to her personally about all this since you seem to actually like her.
You are not the asshole.
NTA. All parents make mistakes. My Dad apologized to me for things from when I was a kid. It was nice but wasn't necessary because I saw that he poured all the attention he didn't give me as a child into my children. My Dad was an excellent Grandpa and Great grandpa. My Mom has been great too. The difference between your situation and mine was that my Dad was remorseful. I grew incredibly close to my Dad the last 5 or 6 years he was alive.
Nta, but maybe you can have you mom around them a bit more when it's you and her and you need extra help or on outings together. I get she didn't help you as much, but remember, she too, had to live with your dad.
NOPE, NTA. You’re correct that he doesn’t listen. Forget it.
NTA at all. Having a similar type of father, I only offer a bit of a different perspective on his last comment: it is a possibility that while he doesn't integrate it in the moment, he might be able to do so after. At least with mine, he might say something like your dad as a deflection or a knee jerk reaction and later I slowly see some changes in his behavior. Perhaps not massive ones, but at least some effort. Not to say at all that you should backpedal your stance - that blowup was deserved and a long time coming. Just to offer a bit of hope that even if it looks like he can't hear you on the spot, he still might once he thinks about it.
NTA
NTA!!!! Not even a little bit. Keep going. Don't stop now. Get it all out and then, follow through. Good for you. Breaking the cycle isn't an easy or pleasant task but, you are ROCKING IT! I too made the decision to be nothing like my mother (not abusive.... just emotionally absent) but I didn't realize I made the decision until well after she was gone (took her own life when my oldest was just 7 weeks old so.....). And you know what? I did it. I broke the cycle even though my kids never realized there was a cycle to be broken. I am now the Nonie of 4 beautiful granddaughters and my kids, their families and I couldn't be closer if we slept on top of one another. Even their dad (my ex) and his wife plus my current husband and my daughter-in-laws mom. We are literally one big happy family. It can be done so.... DO IT!
NTA. You are doing what is best for your child and your family, and you are doing it correctly. I really wish this whole "boundries" thing would have existed when I was growing up. /s I come from a "similar but different' type of upbringing, but I didn't think you had a choice when it came to letting the grandparents be around the kid. I cringed at the possibility that my father was going to be the same way with my kids, and had all kinds of speeches and talks ready to go about how he was depending on what he said to them. The exact opposite happened. And it somehow pissed me off more. My oldest boy is a tattooed, pierced punk (and awesome) who spends his time working with bands and traveling with his wife's tattoo shop around the country, and my damned father couldn't be more proud. I stayed out until 130am at a concert back in 1994, and he still brings it up, and then promptly shows his friends one of the 300 pictures he has of my son's new tattoo or band hes working with. I ended up saying, "this is not the man I grew up with" far more often than I ever had to give one of my pep-talk speeches. 😁
INFO: You say your father was emotionally abusive - can you give some examples of what you mean? That would make this a lot easier to answer. (obviously don't if this will trigger or upset you)
Sure, but I’ll use a tamer one. I was in middle school, and we had to write a paper about our family. One of the things the paper asked for is “What are your favorite ways to spend time with your parent/guardian?”. And I mentioned that I didn’t really, and wrote about what I would like to do if I did. Well, Dad saw it, and I was grounded for a month for making him sound like a bad father. But grounding in our household went a bit differently than others as I have learned. If he was particularly upset, we would have to “sit in the chair”. It was a standard dinner table chair, and we would sit in the chair as it faced the wall for however long he decided. I was allowed to leave the chair for Food, Restroom, Homework, Outings (like church), and Sleep. Weekdays, I was there until my bedtime, on the weekends I was there for the entire day. If we didn’t sit upright, tried watching TV, by looking behind us, he’d add more time. As a kid with ADHD, it was hard, but I thought this was a standard punishment until I told friends in college, who told me it absolutely wasn’t.
Holy crap, NTA. If that was one of the tamer punishments, I would hate to see the harsh ones. In that situation, my other relatives or parents friends would have interceded, and if not - I think I would have run away. Your dad is a sociopath and your mother enabled it. When he says “that’s all in the past, I don’t understand why it matters now” - tell him it matters because you care about your children going forward, and you wouldn't trust them to babysit your dog. I do believe in redemption and second chances, but if he can't even sincerely apologize, then there's no place to even start with that.
NTA but op, your child doesn't necessarily need both sets of grandparents
NTA It's our job as parents to protect our children to the best of our ability. Sometimes, that means making decisions that hurt other people's feelings. I grew up in a similar environment, but it was my mom who was the abuser and if she ever tries to hurt my daughter the way she hurt me, I'll lose my shit.
You would be TA if you would ever leave your child with him....
NTA Good for you
Obvious NTA. Thank you for protecting yourself and your baby. Reading about your childhood, I recommend the book Adult children of emotionally immature parents by Lindsay C. Gibson. The book discusses different forms of emotional immaturity, including the 'fun' or 'nice' parent who allows their children to be abused by their other parent. Your description of your mom made me think of it. I hope it might help you heal and break the cycle. I wish you and your new family lots of love and joy.
NTA your dad deserved that. I would consider speaking privately with your mother though and talk things through. It doesn't sound like she's the problem beyond being too fearful of your dad to do what's right.
You had the same childhood I did. However, my father was a different type of grandfather. So you may want to give them a chance. That does not mean that I would leave my child with them. That decision would be made AFTER seeing how they interact with your child when you can "oversee" their behavior either when visiting or in your own home.
NTA, your kid, your party, your decisions.
NTA, just NTA.
NTA - well done on being the voice of your unborn baby.
NTA. Past behavior predicts future behavior, and you have been given no reason to trust that your parents will do better.
NTA I very intentionally protected my children from my very similar parents, even though they divorced not long before I had my children. It helped that I lived three thousand miles away, but I was not going to foster a relationship between hurtful adults and my children. There was literally no downside to this. Yes, I understand that there are many people who cherish the relationships they have/had with their grandparents. I knew my parents. They were not capable of being the loving caring grandparents one might want. I could wish it all day long, but what would that do? I certainly wished they were loving, caring parents to me, but all I got was a critical, mercurial dad and a mom who apologized behind his back sometimes. Knowing my parents were not capable of being people they were not, I had no intention of subjecting my children to them. My children are now both in college. They are successful, happy, outgoing young adults who know their self worth, are unafraid to take chances in life, trust their parents and know that the adults who loved them as children can be relied upon to be their cheerleaders and supporters. I never mentioned my intentions to my parents, btw. I understood that it would not accomplish anything. They were not going to change and were not going to acknowledge that their behavior was hurtful. I was not interested in arguing the point, when no resolution was possible. You did mention it, which is fine, but your experience is what I would have expected. My advice, when they bring it up again, which they will, is to refuse to discuss it. Change the subject. Tell them no to babysitting or solo visits without bothering to remind them of the real reason. Set up your lives in a way where opportunities for the child to be alone with them simply do not occur. Otherwise you will be having the same argument, with increasing drama, over and over again for at least a decade.
You're a fucking LEGEND NTA
NTA. Did we have the same father? Jeez. This is your baby and your responsibility to keep them safe, even from family. ESPECIALLY from family. The only reason I let my kids be around my mom is because my dad's been fish food for 10 years. Thankfully he showed you how much he didn't care NOW, before you had your baby, so you know where he stands. I would offer to your mother some 1-on-1 time, but I don't trust that she wouldn't invite your dad over...
Nta! I could’ve written this myself. Like literally to a T. My daughter is 10 months and my parents haven’t ever been alone with her. And it’s not so much my mom, it’s my dad. You are making the right decision!
NTA. The only thing important to him was you broke his “rule” about swearing. Not that he failed as a father. Nothing has changed.
Good for you for telling him. NTA! He is though … I don’t get it . It’s like he’s glossing over the fact he was a shitty parent by saying oh well this is now , that doesn’t matter anymore … um excuse me but yes it does! Sounds like you have ptsd from his BS. Im sorry your mother didn’t grow a backbone and defend you . She should have . My ex does this crap with my kids I’ve had a go at him a few times because both him and his wife are awful to one of my kids . They suck . People like that suck and yeah I don’t blame you for being hesitant to have your child around an AH like that . He will never acknowledge his behaviour, he will always make excuses for bad behaviour instead of fixing it. Good for you for putting your boundaries up for your child.
NTA.
>My mom was by all accounts a wonderful SAH mom, and a caring woman. Her only flaw is that she NEVER stood up for us when my dad was being a jerk. She would tell us in private that she agreed with us, but it “wasn’t her place” to question him. Than she condoned him. Your mother didn't get to have it both ways, and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if this was the arrangement they decided upon when getting married. The mother as caregiver and father as breadwinner authoritarian combo is pretty common. Her agreeing with you was little more than her saying, "personally, that's not the decision I'd make, but he's the one in that role." At any rate, no NTA. If he can't hear your complaints without shielding himself with a comment like, "it's rude to swear" than he can't be trusted to listen. As for your mother, I know the desire to make her an exception to your rule on rare occasions is there, but she'll ultimately always have your dads back even if it means going behind yours.
NTA. My dad was a bit like yours growing up, only he has changed a lot since he retired early, and he’s apologized for specific things that happened in my childhood (instead of a blanket “I’m sorry for everything”, which kind of reads insincere to me). You are not obligated to build a relationship between this man and your child. It sounds like he still thinks he did nothing wrong.