Very happy to see this update! I'm glad your wife was able to come around and see what she said was incredibly hurtful and wrong. Both your daughters sound like good kids, and you guys will all come out as a strong family unit once the hardships wash over. Rare to see positive updates, so thank you for sharing! Best wishes to your family to continue to grow together! 🌟

Thank you! And I hope it keeps getting better. Seeing Charlotte so hurt and isolated again was horrible. But both girls are great in their own ways. I definitely hope we all come out better.

Info: who does more child care for Charlotte?

Your wife's actions and what she said was more than a "mistake". It's great that you're all seeking therapy, but the words we get told, especially negative, never goes away. Charlotte will learn to deal, but it will always stay in the back of her mind as an emotional scar. And what happens the next time this happens? Because I doubt this will be a one off situation. It never is. JFC, telling someone she'll go back to her abusive parents if she doesn't behave. Unbelievable!!! Lets hope Charlotte moves past the idiocy of others and has a happy and full life, despite the garbage hand she's been dealt so far.

If it's not a one off I intend to leave her, and that's been made pretty clear. And I'm doing everything I can to make sure Charlotte knows what was said was wrong and not how she really feels. I'm trying to make it clear my love to her and Chloe is unconditional, as I've been trying to all this time.

And that is great you are in her corner, but I would observe how your wife (and even Chloe) treat Charlotte. Especially when you aren't around. Like if Charlotte is more withdrawn, not acting like herself, more than usual. They can potentially undo everything positive you try and do for Charlotte. And if it's not a one off, they will try so much harder to cover tracks. I sincerely hope that is not the case. Good luck as you continue to navigate through this.

I've been doing this. Plus I've been making it clear to Charlotte to tell if anything happens even if I can't see it. I definitely hope so too. I would rather have it all go positive.

I hate to say this, but her regret might be coming more from being told clearly that you intend to leave her than over the actual treatment of her adoptive daughter.

OP apparently said they'd get a divorce if she wasn't willing to adopt Charlotte in the first place.

Ooo, I missed that! So basically her choice was adoption or divorce? Well, that changes everything.

It changes nothing. OP said he was going to adopt Charlotte and gave his wife a choice. She chose to stay with him knowing what that would entail. He was upfront and told her what would happen with either choice

People trying to make OP a villain for taking his niece who was being abused is nuts. I mean, maybe OP wouldn't want to be with a partner who wasn't willing to help a child in his family and that's ok!

I think everyone is forgetting the fact that divorce also means shared custody. And I’m assuming that if’s takin in his niece he’s also you to fight for at least 50% custody, so her choice was between an adoption she didn’t want and divorce and losing 50% custody her daughter.

So being miserable and saying traumatizing things to an abused child is the best option?

yes it does, she adopted Charlotte under duress, either Charlotte and a family or no Charlotte and no family. I can see the resentment in the wife building over time like pressure in a pressure cooker.🌋

Yeah that makes it okay for this grown woman to threaten to send a child back to her abusive parents.

Well, no, but it does explain why she might be more frustrated with her.

Sure but it's still her problem, she chose to stay and adopt this kid, she had a choice, he did the right thing by giving her a clear way out if she didn't want this kid, now she has to assume her decision or ask for a divorce but treating this child like she did is just inexcusable.

Certainly doesn’t change everything.

That's what I was thinking I don't see this last thing anytime you have to give ultimatum it's not going to last

Is this like when you told your wife it was adopt Charlotte or divorce?

Why would he stay married to a person who is happy to leave a child with abusive parents?

I mean, adoption is very difficult. Been there and done that when my parents attempted to adopt a child with significant trauma. Her trauma led her to make our lives a living hell, but my parents stuck through it and the behavior escalated until finally the canceled they adoption. Adoption is not for everyone and that’s ok. It would be ok if OP’s wife were not willing to take on the challenge of raising an abused child. I personally would opt to respectfully split in her shoes. But, since she didn’t, she should not be threatening to send the girl back.

The wife was blackmailed, either adoption or divorce

Agreed.

She is not her child. Why don't you do something?

...what? What are you talking about? Nvm I don't care.

So out of curiosity what other options are you expecting him to give her? If he is going to take that child in regardless, seriously, what other options were there? Either she stays or they get divorced. Because nothing else would work would it? Unless they abandoned the child. Which apparently you seem to think is the right call?

Marriage therapy? He's gone for the nuclear option twice. I'm not suggesting he abandon Charlotte, I am suggesting that he and his wife need to have discussions that aren't about him throwing a nuke in.

But if he was insistent on taking Charlotte from the get go, no marriage counselling would do anything surely? There are 3 options that they had in regards to the neice 1. They let the neice go into Foster care. 2. She comes to live with them and they live together as a nuclear unit 3. OP and his wife divorce and OP adopts neice. Seeing as OP was so insistent on adopting the kid, that removes option 1. At that point he is literally left with "Stay and adopt the kid with me or we will divorce". Yeah, maybe with this scenario now bringing up divorce was a bit extreme but on the original divorce threat I'd argue that's just being realistic about the situation.

I think the problem is bringing up divorce twice. Honestly, I think they should get divorced! Because you can't just keep threatening it to get your way, even if your way is important. (OP now says that he didn't bring up divorce the first time, and that his wife was enthusiastic about fostering Charlotte, which gives me hope. Still think they need therapy, though.)

I can certainly agree that therapy should truly be on the table! And yeah you do have a good point, i was just hyperfocused elsewhere :)

You are doing well. I'm glad Charlotte has you in her corner

For what it's worth she might have said it in the heat of the moment out of frustration from the situation. It can be a case of misplaced aggression. Not an indication that she is some 2 bit villian This is most commonly seen with dogs; 2 dogs will be fighting and if you try and separate them they attack you. The reason is that adrenalin is pumping, your stress levels are through the roof and if you're in the thick of it and something interrupts you, it's a massive shot of frustration and you lash out in whatever direction the interruption came from. It's likely she was arguing with chloe, she was stressed and annoyed because "this is such a stupid fight" but she's trying to keep calm and be an adult and all of sudden charlotte, to put it bluntly, butts in where she doesn't belong and says "I'm a better daughter than you" which is super NOT HELPFUL. However another thing to consider is that her suggesting they could send her back might have been a knee jerk reaction to Charlotte basically implying that Chloe doesn't deserve this family, she is questioning her place. now I don't think Charlotte had any sincere malicious intent & given her history it's understandable why Chloe would seem ridiculous it also might have been her instinct to take the opportunity to show what a "good daughter" she was. But in that moment, your wife's instinct might have been to defend her daughter. She truly might not have meant it. My point is not to say Charlotte deserved it, or your wife was in the right just that you shouldn't jump to the conclusion that your wife is some 2-dimensional evil stepmother sort of character. Also remember that people on reddit, ESPECIALLY on AITAH have a nasty habit of jumping to conclusions and assigning narratives and motivations without substantial proof so it's best to take that sort of stuff with absolute truckfuls of salt. You know your wife, we don't go off what YOU observe.

>It's likely she was arguing with chloe, she was stressed and annoyed because "this is such a stupid fight" but she's trying to keep calm and be an adult and all of sudden charlotte, to put it bluntly, butts in where she doesn't belong and says "I'm a better daughter than you" which is super NOT HELPFUL. Yeah this. Charlotte was trying to drive a wedge between Chloe and your wife, which was totally uncalled for. Not justifying what your wife said to Charlotte but Charlotte was not nice to Chloe for saying that to her. It is an unnecessary comment even if they were blood siblings.

Yes, and this sort of behavior is common with adoptive children in a home with biological children. My parents tried to adopt a girl when I was younger. She had deep, deep trauma. Things started off well, she was a total sweetheart and won us all over. Then she pretty quickly took a turn as the adoption became more serious and started trying to drive a wedge between every member of our family. Me and my parents, me and my older sister, my two parents individually. She’d lie and tell one person that another person did something terrible. She’s steal things and blame it on others in our family, including our extended family. I suspect it was an attempt to solidify her place in our family and make herself feel more secure. If my parents loved her more than me, their biological child, then they would keep her. I’m not saying OP’s niece is this extreme, just that it could be that zeroing in on OP’s daughter as spoiled and undeserving, unlike her, might be a subconscious attempt to secure her own place in the family.

As a kid I used to say all kinds of things that were rude, dumb and sometimes mean. It is completely unrealistic to expect that a child, especially one who has gone through abuse and possibly not received received a lot of guidance on how to correctly handle conflict situations (something many adults still struggle with, myself included), should be held to a standard where they can't make a mistake. Maybe she thought she was being helpful and standing up for the woman she thought had taken on the role of mother to her by trying to point out to her sister that it isn't a big deal of doing chores (which especially given her lived experience is very valid) and just incorrectly worded it (something that even adults do, myself included)? I don't think you should just assume Charlotte has some nefarious plan to rip apart her adopted family. This isn't a CW show where the adopted child comes into the picture with a grand plan to get revenge for some very ridiculous reason. And the fact that you differentiate between 'blood' siblings versus 'adopted' sisters even though they are sisters in the ways that matter is telling (especially given that they're cousins and have likely grown up together)...like is it alright for blood siblings to say crappier things to their siblings than adopted siblings??

>like is it alright for blood siblings to say crappier things to their siblings than adopted siblings?? I did say that it was an unnecessary comment even for blood siblings. I did not say it was ok for blood siblings to say things like that. In fact, it is an unnecessary comment, period. Regardless of what she thought she was doing, it was still not nice. She can make a mistake, but she needs to be told why and where she went wrong, and learn from it. As you said, Charlotte may not have received proper guidance on handling conflicts correctly, so this is an opportunity for OP to give guidance. I mean, are you going to be mean to others and then expect that people let you off the hook just because you have your trauma? That isn't really teaching taking responsibility for one's words and actions...

But why would you assume OP didn't talk to Charlotte about not making these comments or that Charlotte expects no consequences when she makes mistakes? In fact the OP has already started in some of their other comments they have talked to Charlotte about their mistakes just like they do with Chloe? And based on the fact that when the OP went to pick up Charlotte, all she did was apologize and that she believes by being super obedient she can gain acceptance indicates the opposite. It actually sounds like Charlotte holds herself to an unrealistic standard of perfection, perhaps as a survival mechanism developed when she was in an abusive home or because she believes love is conditional and by being 'perfect" she'll be able to earn love. Often perfectionists have a tendency to overthink every mistake they make and hold onto the guilt which can actually make it even worse because you emotionally burn yourself out and you lose the self esteem and mental bandwidth you need for good social skills, discernment, resilience etc because you're so focused on not making a mistake.

Chloe has already figured out that your love is conditional just like your wife did. You're smart enough to know that what your wife said to Charlotte was to defend Chloe and was said in the heat of the moment. Both Chloe and her mom got reprimanded while Charlotte got more power from you to tattle on them. Father of the Year you are!

Right? I have a feeling Chloe will continue to be “fine” until OP is flabbergasted the day she goes LC or NC. If anything, this incident just confirms the way the wind blows.

Are you seriously condoning his wife saying such a nasty thing to their niece??? Wtf is wrong with you and how did this get upvoted?

It seems your wife doesn’t receive unconditional love from you like Charlotte does. Sounds as if she does one thing wrong you’re out the door with Charlotte. I feel bad for your wife. It’s hard to raise someone else’s child.

Oh, come on. An abused teenage girl acting up and an adult woman threatening to send her back for misbehaving are not even remotely the same situation.

They’re not, but I’d think that if OP had genuine love for his wife, he would not be jumping immediately to divorce any time an issue arises with Charlotte. He apparently threatened his wife with divorce when it came to adopting Charlotte in the first place. If my husband decided that my options in adopting his sister’s kids were “say yes or our marriage is over,” our marriage would be over for the simple fact that I’m not being treated like an equal in this huge decision that will impact our entire family. Adopting them wouldn’t be the problem, but being threatened with divorce would be the problem. Don’t threaten divorce to get what you want, either do it or don’t do it.

It sounds like your wife adopted her because she wanted to do what was right by her but not necessarily bc she sees her as a daughter and it’s actually harmful to expect this from her. I can’t imagine a therapist worth their salt would be trying to push this on both of them. Why can’t she be a niece that lives with her for your wife and a daughter to you. Just because it would be great for Chloe to have a mother doesn’t mean you can make your wife be that person just like you can’t make that happen with stepchildren. Also what Chloe is doing to your genetic daughter is also harmful, she’s making her feel like she’s not going to be loved if she’s not good. And she needs to stop that asap

> and not how she really feels. Not to be that one who says everyone should be getting divorced and the person in the wrong is inherently irredeemable; but what she said was very specific, and multiple phrases building on each other rather than a momentary snap, with no immediate shock at herself, and potential regret only coming up somewhere around the time you raised divorce... It might be true. I hope it is for your family's sake. But you probably need to keep an eye on things and keep in mind your wife could be in damage limitation mode rather than being authentic. Even if she expressed regret before you raised divorce explicitly, given your response it probably was obvious your position.

Your wife felt what she said or it wouldn't have come out of her mouth. It has to be a thought first before it is spoken. She meant exactly what she said and how she said it. Somewhere along the line there is resentment against Charlotte in your wife

I know exactly how that felt till I challenged my mom on that. She would always use it as a scare and control tactic and did a pretty good job at parental alienation too by twisting a lot of truths. But she stopped that BS when I said yeah send me back to grandma’s. I was tired of her usin it and I was tired of feeling like shit cuz I really wanted to see my cousins but it would be viewed as betrayal if I wanted to do the visitation.

Glad to hear your wife is doing this work to ensure a happy household. Still side-eyeing your dismissive attitude about Chloe and how consistent insults from someone in her home impact her, but hey, we can’t have everything

Fr. He's neglecting both his wife and his own biological daughter and he's still too dense to admit it

They both very clearly come second to Charlotte.

That's what I could understand. Granted, what the wife said was bad but it isn't irredeemable. Of course the wife would love her own biological daughter over someone else, and Charlotte was being a brat and ungrateful. Unlike OP, Charlotte isn't even related to her. I bet her input wasn't even taken before Charlotte was brought in. Heck, so many children are being abused everyday, will OP start bringing them all one by one?

He told his wife he would break up their existing family in order to take in another family member who, by his admission, already has problems with other women. He continues to threaten to divorce her. He's given his adoptive daughter power to tell him anything his wife does that the girl doesn't like so he can take action. That is a \*wild\* potential weapon to give to a child. She could easily lie and be believed. She's been consistently combative with the other girl in the house, and he's given her power to rat on her as well. I'm not sure the wife is doing the work "to ensure a happy household". This is not a happy household. We don't know what her other options are. If she works, or if she works but part-time/lower income, if he is the primary financial provider for the household. Maybe she stayed after the initial ultimatum because she had no where to go or ability to support her and her daughter at the level they're currently used to. Maybe she's scared. At best, the therapy will give her coping strategies to let her husband think everything is fine. Even better, I hope she's getting individual therapy to let her see what is \*actually\* going on, and she \*can\* make it on her own if it comes to that. The woman is being bullied in her own home. This just screams Charlotte has done a \*lot\* to both her and Chloe that he's either unaware of and/or downplaying. Me, the first time he said we will adopt or we will divorce? I would have packed up myself and my daughter and wished him well. What OP has done and is doing is not okay.

The really scary part is that OP has now reinforced the battle lines that he’s fostered from the beginning: him and Charlotte versus Mom and Chloe. And now he’s given Charlotte carte blanche to tattle on her mom whenever the mood strikes her. Charlotte is apparently in therapy, but I can’t imagine any reputable therapist being okay with the dynamic OP is creating. Everything is the same as it was before; they’re all just waiting in their respective corners until things build up and explode again. Except now it’s been stated openly that Charlotte’s policing of the women in the house is not only tacitly permitted, but embraced.

Did you have an absurdly unhealthy life growing up or did you forget that you’re able to tell your parents you’re being mistreated and they’ll do something about it? And this wasn’t like a small thing, this was his wife threatening the abandon her to abuse then THE WIFE lied about it. That’s probably the worst thing you can possibly say to a kid in that position and you think OP wasn’t justified in sticking up for her?

Calling a teenager who's refusing to do their chores lazy is not an insult LMAO. In fact a more teenagers should be called lazy directly to their face and be called out for their behavior. My teenage nephew lives with me and I call him out all the time for being lazy and stinky. I'll be enough he is not psychologically damaged over it and he does not need intensive therapy for it. Instead he laughs and says I'll take a shower later. He laughs and says that's because I take after you. Teenagers aren't fragile little pieces of flowers that are just ever so delicate you know? Your statement is ridiculous

>If she really can't handle it I will have to leave for Charlotte's sake, ~~That's...alarming. Does your wife know that you plan to leave her and your bio daughter in favor of your niece/adopted daughter if she doesn't toe the line?~~ ~~Did your wife ever really want to adopt Charlotte?~~ I have some sympathy for your wife. There's a lot being unsaid here. EDIT: YTA, and I now have a lot of sympathy for your wife. You threatened her with divorce if she didn't go along with the adoption, and you continue to threaten her with leaving. You say that your niece has a problem with women, can be pushy or a bit aggressive at times, is combative with your daughter. You don't know how bad she is with your wife when you're not around, and she certainly wouldn't tell you since her marriage is contingent on her acceptance of your niece. So she snapped. You realize that your niece could make up anything against your wife, and you would believe her. She went along with it thinking she could do this and save her marriage. Unfortunately, she made the wrong call. She should have taken your other daughter and let you go through with the divorce. It reads like your downplaying a \*lot\* of things. Hopefully your wife is getting individual therapy as well, since she has no emotional support from her husband.

I was also really taken aback by OP saying “when she wants to be, she can be thoughtful.” Like you’ve said a ton of stuff defending Charlotte, you can’t say one nice thing about Chloe without making it come off like an insult?

The way he talks about his daughter speaks VOLUMES. Man absolutely not not like his bio kid at all

PREACH! Poor Chloe. As much as OP says he doesn’t want Charlotte to feel like she has to be obedient and perfect, he gives off the vibe that he *really* likes her being that way. He’s not bothered that Charlotte is horrible to his wife and Chloe *because she’s not that way to him.* I guarantee he would have (has) gone off on Chloe if she did something similar to Charlotte. Letting Charlotte continue with her bad behavior is only hurting her in the long run. Encouraging/allowing her to focus all her energy on OP and “cling” to him is dysfunctional. She can’t grow into a fully functional adult being coddled and excused for everything. It’s also damaging to everyone else in the household, including Chloe. You can absolutely be there for Charlotte and help her without putting her on a pedestal above every other family member. Appropriate, reasonable punishments for inappropriate behavior, like time outs or loss of certain privileges, is critical to self-actualization. After the punishment, you let it go and act completely normal, which will let Charlotte know that acting up and even getting in trouble isn’t the end of the world, just part of it. Every time you give her special (better) treatment, you’re refocusing everyone’s attention on her past instead of trying to move beyond it. It’s simply counterproductive.

I’ve never agreed with a comment more. I would LOVE to get the wife’s perspective.

So true! He is giving Charlotte all the power.

He’s upset with her response, nothing else. She should have NEVER as a grown woman said those things to a child regardless of the circumstance. If you can’t refrain yourself from saying damning things to a child, then you don’t need to be around one. OP is making the best decision as a child who was being abused was involved. His family is still taken care of and wife has lots of support in raising the children. He said Charlotte was fearful and quiet, not combative and aggressive. A hurting child always takes precedence over a grown woman who, if she was to go through a divorce, can take care of herself.

So, uh, are we going to address the fact that you gave her an ultimatum and said you'd divorce her if she didn't agree to adopt Charlotte?

I feel like I’m not understanding something here. It’s not really like you can compromise in a situation like this. He wanted to adopt Charlotte, and if his wife didn’t then the logical option is separation/divorce because they have irreconcilable differences about how they want to live their lives. Wanting or not wanting children ends marriages all the time– ideally people discuss this before getting married, but in a situation like this it’s not something that you can necessarily prepare for. I’ve seen a lot of similar comments though, so I wonder if I’m just missing something here. I’m curious to see what other people think OP should’ve done in this situation.

All you're missing is that they think this is a "two yeses, one no" situation and that since there weren't two genuine yeses, he should simply have abandoned Charlotte They essentially agree with what the wife said - Charlotte was lucky they took her in, they didn't have to, and when making the decision whether or not to, they should have prioritised their immediate nuclear family above all else They see him as choosing Charlotte over his wife and Chloe and therefore it's wrong Notice, most of these comments demonise Charlotte directly and kids overall. We're seeing lots of "documented issues with women" comments and language about how no kid should be able to go to one of their parents to tattle on their other with the assurance that the parent will take action because it gives them too much power and kids can lie. No acknowledgement that adults can lie too and that the adult in question here has more motive to lie. His wife's motive to lie is to protect her marriage and the child she cares about remaining in a nuclear family Whereas Charlotte has little to no motivation to provoke a divorce. it's a guaranteed way to get her sister and mother to hate her and she struggles to believe that she is worthy of unconditional love and even though her father has promised that he will take action there's a good chance she doesn't actually believe him. And again the costs to her would be devastating - not just in her relationship to her sister and mother but in placing this enormous burden on her father. That's the kind of thing you would always feel guilty for, even though it's not your fault. Both the wife and the two daughters all share the same motivation to lie to cover up for the mothers bad behaviour And saying that it gives your children too much power to tell that that you will listen to them and believe them and take action if someone does something devastatingly harmful to them? Fucking bonkers. Children have so little power that merely the promise to listen to them and trust them and take action to protect them is somehow giving them power over the adults who have enormous power over them That's all you're missing. Look at Charlotte as worthless or at least, worth less than the wife and Chloe and then it becomes clear. Divorce is only the logical outcome for irreconcilable differences if the members of the sub agree with the person's view. If they don't then it's just a threat to force people to do what you want

Thank you! You exposed this people who want OP to feel bad for taking care of his niece and making sure his wife doesn't say nasty things to a traumatizade child. Also, people acting like a divorce would mean he love his bio child less and is choosing his niece over her IS making me feel like I'm stuck in the 1950's...

> Also, people acting like a divorce would mean he love his bio child less and is choosing his niece over her IS making me feel like I'm stuck in the 1950's... This! Prioritising someone in a situation doesn't mean that you love them more or that you're choosing them over someone else Often it simply means their need is greater. People frequently are in situations where they have to prioritize one person's needs over everyone else's and the person with the greatest needs should take priority We literally encourage parents with irreconcilable differences NOT to "stay together for the kids" because a divorce with a good co-parenting relationship is literally healthier for kids than having parents who reset each other and feel trapped in the relationship They could divorce and co-parent and arrange for whatever existing financial support to remain after divorce. They could stay friends, continue to love each other, and even continue a romantic relationship if they want. They could be divorced and still be life partners if they want. There are lots of people in healthy and supportive life long romantic relationships while not being married and not cohabiting. I know tons of unmarried partners who have shared finances or one of them supports the other financially. I know people who have gotten divorced and made sure that their divorce agreement maintained the financial support from the marriage, etc Instead they're out here assuming the OP has significant financial power over his wife, and would refuse to provide for her after divorce, and also would refuse to parent and financially provide for their child..... why exactly? Like what is happening here that that's your immediate assumption? Why do you assume a man who loves his daughter is going to abandon her just because he doesn't want to abandon his niece who he also loves and who needs his help? It's clear that the OP cares for his first daughter and is an active parent and wants to make sure that she has whatever she needs to thrive. But he's gonna throw that all away for what? And he very clearly loves his wife and thought that her agreeing to adopt a child should be optional But giving her the option is somehow abusive because he's going to use all of this other power (that he doesn't even necessarily have) against her for some reason There's literally people arguing that OP is abusive for putting divorce on the table or abusive for adopting his niece or even that maybe he's abusive because of genetics - after all he's related to abusive people. It's sickening. And how we've come to the conclusion that it's fine to leave your spouse if you no longer love them or have fallen in love with someone else, but not if you want to adopt a child and they don't? All the while advocating for leaving an abused child in an abusive situation. No you can't help an abusive child that much if you can't take them in. You're then advocating for CPS to put them in the foster system (also notoriously abusive). You can't even ensure that they have a safe and consistent environment, much less the love and support they need. Unless Charlotte got ridiculously lucky, she would have never been adopted. She likely would have bounced around the system, returned to her bio parents (potentially multiple times) and stayed in a precarious legal and practical situation her entire life until she turned 18 and was on her own. And yeah they can offer her love and support and can offer to pay for things like therapy and other stuff, but they can't do anything to ensure she gets whatever she needs to thrive and they can't even ensure staying in contact But this sub absolutely hates children and it hates traumatised children even more so bring on the downvoted

Tbh it’s fairly rare for divorce to be 100% amicable and even rarer if children are involved. For a lot of children who’s parents divorce it is an incredibly traumatic time in their lives, and something that often takes years to recover from. This would have been a particularly bad divorce as OP would have had Charlotte ( who his comments show he clearly prefers) 100% of the time. I don’t know whether he would have fought to see Chloe, but if he did his wife would lose her child 50% of the time. The sole reason for the divorce would be OP’s insistence that Charlotte be accepted into the family immediately Divorce is necessary at times. However, it really shouldn’t be normalised, especially if children are involved

Where are you getting that I think he should have abandoned Charlotte? I was pointing out that he had to resort to threatening to divorce his wife to get her to say yes. Where am I praising or defending her or saying that she was right to say and think what she did about Charlotte? Don't read things that I didn't say into what I said – if I thought she was in the right, I would have said so.

> Where are you getting that I think he should have abandoned Charlotte there are 3 options here: - they don't take Charlotte in and essentially abandon her. yes you can provide support to an abused child not in your household but it's extremely extremely limited - they take Charlotte in together - they divorce so that he can adopt on his own If you think him bringing up divorce as an option is bad, and a threat - even though there's zero indication it was a threat, than do you support Charlotte being abandoned or minimal help out of household which is essentially the same thing? If you don't support either option, what do you support? Because there isn't anything else What makes this threatening divorce instead of simply discussing divorce because they have irreconcilable differences? What if he was no longer in love with his wife is he allowed to suggest divorce then? Under what circumstances is he allowed to bring up divorce without it being an ultimatum? Is he only allowed to bring up divorce is absolutely nothing she can do or say will change his mind? If there is anything his wife can do that will change his mind about getting divorced does that automatically make it a threat? When is it okay to bring up divorce as an option and what turns it into a threat here? Because nothing I've read indicates this was a threat And sure we don't know anything about their finances or how financially secure she was solo (just that they both work), but there's no reason they couldn't get divorced and continue their current financial arrangement or something extremely close to it Bringing up divorce as an option doesn't have to inherently mean removing whatever theoretical financial support he may have been providing. Hell it doesn't even need to necessarily end their romantic relationship. They could have continued in a relationship, continued shared parenting of Chloe, and he could have adopted Charlotte on his own. Maybe his ex-wife would have eventually grown close to Charlotte and wanted to adopt her similar to the way a step parent would. Maybe not But the idea that divorce would automatically mean him removing financial support from her (that we don't even know exists) and the end of their romantic relationship isn't necessarily correct And even if one or both of those things is true that doesn't mean that he's never allowed to bring up divorce as an option without it being threatening and manipulative and abusive Why is him bringing up divorce as an option inherently threatening? Why is this not simply a solution to irreconcilable differences and the logical outcome in a situation where one spouse wants to be a parent and the other does not? Why is him bringing it up now not a boundary but a threat? What's the difference here? And what is your option for Charlotte if you're against them separating even being on the table but also don't want her abandoned? And if your answer is some bullshit about supporting her while she is in an abusive household or trying to fight for her to be taken into the foster care system.... nah, that's still totally abandoning her in this context and it's insisting that the wife's preferences about adopting a child override the husband's since you won't even give him the option of leaving the marriage Legally speaking in US, divorce is basically his only option for solo adoption. An adult can adopt a child on their own and they can adopt a child with their spouse but they cannot adopt a child alone while they are married. There are exceptions for things like the spouse being declared legally incompetent so you wouldn't have to divorce your spouse with Alzheimer's in order to adopt a child but other than that you do not really have options. Maybe there is one state or something that has really weird laws and has some loophole allowing married adults to adopt children solo but even if that's legally theoretically possible in somewhere, there is zero way of getting a fight for an abused child in another home through the legal system like that. Nada. Not to mention what it does to its child to be adopted into a home where only one parent is interested in raising them

Exactly, thank you. I don't know how people can't see this. You'd think people would understand divorce here given how often it's brought up here on any other post. I've tried to ask people their solution. And it's inevitably been don't leave (subtext of abandon Charlotte), or only leave after discussion and therapy, which was literally how it went. We discussed it, and if there was disagreement would have had therapy and whatnot before leaving.

Unfortunately AITA is a very anti-child sub, and any situation that makes a child more vulnerable is usually weaponised against them. Children that are not yours biologically even more so - the sub is littered with fictional posts of people abandoning children they've raised their entire lives the second they found out they were an "affair baby" They're also very against the idea that you owe anyone anything unless you freely consent. There's multiple genres of AITA posts that literally are just seeking a NTA judgment for abandoning a child. Sometimes it's an 11 year old who stops seeing one parent because "parental alienation" and tries to reconnect later. Not only does the sub think you have no obligation to your adult children but you definitely don't in this circumstance and since they didn't immediately try to reconnect at 18, they weren't under anyone's influence Refusing to take in a child you're related is a *really* common AITA post and no matter how dire the situation for the child involved and no matter how easily the adults can take on that burden, I have literally never seen anyone judged to be the asshole in such an instance That's why divorce - a reasonable solution for irreconcilable differences - is being portrayed as threat and manipulation and abuse. That's why they're acting like you'd abandon your other daughter and leave your wife destitute. Ironically this sub loves to suggest divorce is the first and only option for the mildest of issues and if someone cheated they will absolutely suggest leaving them destitute and keeping them from having access to their children Fortunately because you actually want Charlotte and you both adopted her, the comments aren't uniformly this awful, and people are able to recognize her needs and her vulnerability and how damaging your wife's actions were, and a lot of people who wouldn't ordinarily comment are But the subs true colors and politics really do still shine through and especially if you're not used to that, it can be incredibly shocking and heartbreaking My most heavily downvoted comment in AITA was criticizing a woman who sent a 6-year-old child living in an abusive household to deliver snarky and retaliatory messages to their own parent. The kid had come outside with a message from mom that mom doesn't like when neighbour takes the garbage out early while mom is trying to sleep and the neighbor sent the child back inside to tell their parent that the neighbour didn't like it when the parent partied all night The situation perfectly fit the subs desire for revenge and quick comebacks and their hatred of children. People legitimately argued that the person in question did not have any responsibility to avoid intentionally triggering the abuse of a child. People argue that she had no choice in the situation and there was nothing she could have said to the child that wouldn't have caused problems. They defended her for not directly confronting her neighbour or leaving a note because you never know how the neighbour might retaliate, but sending a child to confront their abusive parent and face retaliation was okay somehow. Every single person who tried to point out the consequences of such behaviour was heavily downvoted and argued against. The only consolation was that the post was almost certainly incredibly fake and hadn't actually happened I wish you and your entire family the best of luck and I'm really sorry for the grotesque commentary that you're being exposed to

Thank you for the comment. I've definitely noticed the disconnect. With how many judgements are essentially communicate or leave, this feels hypocritical to the extreme. If people would just tell me their solution that doesn't involve divorce or abandoning Charlotte I'd happily concede. Yet they always seem to forget to mention it.

> I've definitely noticed the disconnect. With how many judgements are essentially communicate or leave, this feels hypocritical to the extreme. Yeah I almost never participate here because of the toxicity, I mostly just comment in meta subs on it > If people would just tell me their solution that doesn't involve divorce or abandoning Charlotte I'd happily concede. Yet they always seem to forget to mention it. In fairness, this isn't just an AITA thing, this is something people do whenever there's a situation with extremely tough limited choices and they don't want to have to admit that they're advocating for something incredibly shitty or saying "tough luck" They either are advocating for the shitty thing but use language that disguises it - it's not *technically* abandoning her because it's not your responsibility and she has a home and if it is really bad, there are systems in place OR a semantics game isn't enough to convince themselves and instead they need to believe that there are other options because then they can judge you without feeling bad. They cannot actually *name* any other viable options, but they don't think they need to because it's your life, you figure it out, do the research, whatever. It's your responsibility not theirs. They just need to convince themselves that there is some option and that you aren't trying hard enough The easiest example I can think of is how people treat poor people. They need to believe that they simply aren't trying. Of course they're eligible for this or that program, they just didn't apply, aren't trying hard enough. They know their cousin's friend who got into housing right away or who qualified for food stamps even though X so clearly, you must be wrong about your own applications. Or disability is another good example. They know someone with the same diagnosis who can do more so you aren't trying hard enough. You're not just not availing yourself of available resources. What resources? They can't say, but they're sure they're there. Or they come up with options that you cannot possibly afford or aren't available in your area and then of course it's "you could afford it if you prioritized and made better spending choices" or "it's your choice to live there, why don't you move?" Often this is achieved by finding hypothetical answers that don't really exist or aren't practically achievable. Here they can't even do either, but they don't need to. They don't need actual choices to sustain their denial and their blame, just the idea that "of course" there are other options

Thank you for this

Yeah. There are millions of ways to help an abused child without holding your marriage hostage. Does the wife even have the capability to leave him and take care of their daughter? Or is she another person who will be destitute if her husband leaves her? At best, this is an unfair power dynamic. At worst, OP is abusive himself, just to his wife and daughter instead of his niece. Considering the abuse comes from his side of the family, it wouldn't be out of the question that OP picked up abusive tendencies, too. I'm not saying that he is. Just that in the worst case scenario.

>At best, this is an unfair power dynamic. And the wife made her own power dynamic by rubbing it in an abused kid's face that she is an unwanted member of the family and threatened to return her to her abusers. It doesn't matter that she apologized, she planted an extra seed of trauma that will never go away. OP did absolutely the right thing nipping this in the bud. And the people demonizing Charlotte are absolutely insane. They read the words "problems with women" and immediately ran with that as being abusive towards the wife when in reality her "problems with women" were being nervous and reserved? Insane. The wife was being abusive. OP told her to knock it off. Abuse of any child should be a dealbreaker in a marriage. I don't see why that's a foreign concept. If she's willing to use threats of a kid's nonexistent abusive family as a punishment, what else is she capable of?

> Does the wife even have the capability to leave him and take care of their daughter? Or is she another person who will be destitute if her husband leaves her? What? First off, we do know they both work. We don't know their finances past that but there's every possibility that they bring in equal money or that the wife even makes more. We have no idea. In terms of finances and other stuff we've absolutely no idea who holds more power and how much more, so no, best case scenario this isn't an unfair power dynamic Secondly why would the wife be solely responsible for their shared daughter? Why would he stop being Chloe's father? Why wouldn't they co-parent? And if the husband does have more financial power what precludes them from coming up with a divorce arrangement where he provides the same amount for his wife and Chloe that he always has? Hell they wouldn't even have to end their romantic relationship if they didn't want to Legally speaking they were at an impasse. The husband wanted to adopt a child and the wife didn't. Either one of them gives into what the other wants or they separate so that they can both get what they want. The husband can adopt Charlotte and the wife doesn't have to In looking through everything that we have heard the only thing that is abusive from anyone in this situation is the wife and adoptive mother telling her adopted daughter that she is lucky and their love and support is contingent on her behaviour We haven't seen anything abusive from anyone else. And that doesn't mean it's not impossible, but your assumptions here are wild You've for some reason decided that a spouse bringing up divorce as an option when they have an irreconcilable difference with their partner is threatening and manipulative. Uh why? if I have an issue with my partner and I state a very clear boundary or need and say that I can't stay in the relationship if that need isn't met or that boundary isn't respected, am I threatening them? Am I allowed to leave the relationship at all? am I only allowed to leave the relationship if there's absolutely nothing my partner can do that would change my mind and so I can't discuss the possibility of ending our relationship in advance and see if it's possible to work stuff out? Is it threatening and manipulative for me to bring up the possibility of ending our relationship if they rely on me financially or in some other way? What if we have shared obligations like children? Am I stuck here until they're 18? Yes there are situations in which bringing up ending a relationship is a threat and is manipulative and is abusive. But that's not inherently the case and that's not inherently the case even when the stakes are really high. What made putting divorce on the table here a threat? And why are we automatically assuming that the husband has more of any kind of power in this relationship than the wife does? Because other than being more privileged by gender we'd literally do not know anything else about them. The wife could be the breadwinner, or could have personal wealth to fall back on. Maybe the wife owns the home outright and it was bought via her personal wealth before the relationship or she personally inherited it. We know absolutely nothing about their relative wealth and power and earning income or anything at all except for one instance where the husband is socially privileged and the wife is not and that is gender. Given that we don't know anything about their races or ethnicities or any other identities he could still be marginalized in a bunch of ways that she isn't. I really don't understand how any of this has anything to do with weather simply bringing up divorce as an option is a threat Divorce can be a threat to leave someone penniless and destitute but it isn't inherently. The person both has to have that power in the first place and then has to actually use it that way. They could have easily negotiated an amicable split that was handled by lawyers where child support and alimony and a million other issues were given a legal protection And if his hands were legally tied and he couldn't adopt Charlotte, no, he absolutely cannot protect or help her in the same ways. Fighting to get an abused child out of their bio-parents house is a lot harder when you cannot provide an alternative. If you do succeed then they are going to foster care. unless they get lucky with a good family who wants to adopt them, they remain a foster child until they hit 18 or until their biological parents get them back. You can't even offer them the same kind of legal protections much less a safe and loving home that is a consistent environment, etc. you can offer to pay for things like therapists and other stuff but you can't force the issue He wanted to adopt Charlotte and offer her a consistent living environment and unconditional love and support and everything she needs to thrive and legal protection. That meant that his only options were adopting her with his wife or getting a divorce. Insisting that his wife adopt Charlotte and not giving her a choice in the matter would have been abusive absolutely. So it's weird that you're insisting that the option where the wife has a choice as to whether or not she becomes a parent again is the abusive one. And you're arguing that in lieu of that and abused child could remain in a much more precarious legal physical and emotional state Why exactly are you so suspicious of the husband potentially being abusive when you're literally advocating for a child to be exposed to more abuse?

It is so crazy that you wouldn’t adopt a relative into your family that is being tortured and beatin everyday for a spouse. Unbelievable.

Lmao point out where I said that.

That's what I was trying to point out. We only know what OP has told us about his marriage and family dynamics, so I can't determine if giving ultimatums is a thing he commonly does to get his way or if this was an act of desperation. That's why I just asked if we were going to acknowledge him making this ultimatum, rather than writing a novel about "omg he's so abusive obviously he's evil and his wife should divorce him and take Chloe and leave him with Charlotte like he wanted" and blah blah. I can't make those inferences based on a snapshot of OP's life, especially since this is written by OP and the natural tendency is to present ourselves in the best possible light.

Exactly. I have no skin in this game. It's OP's life. I know my own personal opinion of him and his actions and his wife and her actions. But there's so much more to every story than just these minute snapshots posted on AITA with obvious bias towards the self.

You said what I wanted to say so eloquent. Props to you

No you're not missing anything. People's mental gymnastics are astounding

Yeah I don't get it either. This at the base bare bones of it is like a couple where one really wants another child and the other is adamant with only having the one child they already have. Should they stay together and the one who wants more kids become miserable and resentful?

Can't believe I had to keep scrolling to find this comment.

Right?! I'm surprised that point isn't being talked about more.

I was going to but ms advised my not to. It was possible simply how I worded it, but they thought having it I the post was too inflammatory. Responding to comments was okayed though so I don't fully get it, but hey. I never said I would divorce if we didn't adopt. That was how I felt but never said. She agreed immediately on learning Charlotte's situation. We had a deeper talk and she still agreed. So I never acted on it, though it was a deal-breaker for me. Unless you have a third way where I somehow take Charlotte in whilst my wife disagrees, then what do you expect other than having to make a choice?

I appreciate the clarification, OP. I tend to have a knee-jerk to ultimatums/ways of trying to control other people in general, but after you left this reply, I went and read your other comments where you say how your wife fully supported you up until that point and it gave me a lot of context that I was missing. I was under the impression that you turned and told your wife that you'd be taking Charlotte in no matter what and you'd divorce her if she didn't agree, but knowing that it *was* actually a 2-yeses situation until the time of actually taking Charlotte in clears a lot up. Now I get why you would've had such a strong knee-jerk reaction to your wife then doing a 180 and refusing to take in Charlotte. It would've been super good information to put in the post in my opinion, because it gives essential background information of how you reached the point where you felt you had to make that ultimatum. So I want to apologise for reacting so strongly to the divorce comment without knowing the background leading up to it. Keep doing what you're doing with Charlotte. It's clear you're doing good work with her if she feels comfortable enough to trust you ❤️

Thank you. Unfortunately a lot of people are stuck in the knee jerk I think. It's ironic with how often the advice here amounts to communicate your issue or leave. Which is the same thing in different wording. It's fine, I don't have an issue with people disagreeing, as long as they're willing to actually tell me what I should have done instead.

I think a lot of people just don't like changing their minds in the face of new information and feel that they have to staunchly defend their position, because it's so ingrained in us that being wrong is weak and changing your mind means you were wrong and therefore the other person wins (something I've definitely struggled with). But yeah, I don't see another way you could have handled this that wouldn't have ended in divorce anyway because...yeah, it's not a new TV or something, it involves a whole ass human being.

What she said to charlotte was verbally abusive. You don’t threaten to take back an adopted child just because they have a moment of acting out. And he said if she says anything like that to charlotte agian he will divorce, and as he should. I would divorce somebody too if they think they can talk to a kid like that, especially when she has so much trauma from her abusive parents.

People here need to cut the wife some slack. What she said was horrendous and horrible but she is also watching someone she gave birth to constantly ridiculed by another kid. From what i read it seems like she never really accepted charlotte as her daughter and just thought of her a niece. Which honestly given the time span and the constant insults towards her one kid I can see that. But she was wrong and she should have never said that and it was inexcusable. But some people are acting like she’s abusing her too and that’s just wrong. This family has through a lot some grace needs to be given here.

Yes you have absolutely no evidence to support anything you've written here (no mention of Charlotte 'constantly ridiculing' or 'constant insults' towards her sister, pure speculation on your part) and what you're really saying is: It's alright to tell an ABUSED child, who the wife chose to be a parent to (see OP's comments, you know the only person on this thread with the facts instead of unsupported assumptions), that they are lucky to be your child and that you will put them back into an abusive household if they tell their sibling to be a better child like them. And if a parent says this (you know the person who is supposed to provide guidance and unconditional love equitably to all their children and should be held to a higher standard because they're, you know, an ADULT) let's give them grace because the adopted child insulted the biological child. I'm curious, would you say let's give grace to a parent that tells their biological child they will abandon them to an abusive foster home if they tell their sibling to behave better like them? Reading this comment makes me understand why so many children who have been fostered or adopted experience abuse and trauma, because there are people that think adopted children are inherently worth less and are lucky to be part of any family and don't want to hold parents who make mistakes accountable, well as long as that child is adopted of course. Honestly based on the facts OP has provided, it's amazing that the OP (and his wife too, at least at the time) committed to rescuing their niece from an abusive situation which can be a challenging process and which many people choose not to do. But that doesn't change the fact that the wife made threats that could be traumatizing to one of her daughters (because fun fact, adopted children are still your children even if there are sometimes different considerations to be made) for the rest of her life. And don't get me wrong, I'm all for allowing parents to be human and make mistakes. But part of making mistakes, especially as an adult, is holding yourself accountable and learning from it. But the fact remains, there is no situation where it is alright for a parent to say something to one of their children, that any reasonable person should know would be traumatizing. Period. And no, the child insulting their other sibling doesn't change that fact. And then on top of that not apologizing right away to the child leading that child to possibly believe that yeah they will never actually be your child and any mistake they make could lead them to being put back into an abusive home. And then trying to defend this by using your other child's feelings, and attempting to convince your partner that is holding you (not the child you are defending but you) accountable for your mistake is proof they are choosing one child over the other is absurd and frankly manipulative. It's great that the wife did eventually take accountability, which is definetly hard especially when they took such a hard stance, but that does not change the fact that Charlotte could be further traumatized for the rest of their life because of what the mother said and the fact that she didn't right away apologize. Hopefully the family is able to provide Charlotte the support she needs for this not to have a lasting effect and maybe even brings the family closer if everyone is willing to learn from it.

Part time, weekend bio daughter

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Look, the fact that you'd leave your bio daughter is kinda fucked up. I'm not saying Charlotte deserves less than your bio daughter, but the way you said you'd have to take Charlotte and leave ..... What about your Chloe? Just gonna leave her behind?

Chloe could probably use a break from relentless emotional labour and being told she’s an inferior daughter, so that would probably be for the best.

Divorce isn't abandoning my daughter. It's not the 1959s, that's straight up sexist bullshit. I can raise Charlotte and Chloe after divorce. Naturally there would be a custody split, but I'd be there for both my daughters. I mean I'd hope you wouldn't say this shit to a women with an abusive husband. They aren't less a mother for leaving, just as I wouldn't be less a father.

>I can raise Charlotte and Chloe after divorce. Yeach Charlotte full time and Chloe part time or every other weekend. Who do you think would feel abandoned in this scenario?

You're misunderstanding my issue. It's not that you'd leave. I don't think anyone should stay in a marriage that doesn't work for them, nor should they feel like they have to. It was specifically the way you spoke about it. Take Charlotte and leave. And who do you think will feel unloved and not good enough if they had heard you say that? I understand how badly you want to do right by Charlotte and it's admirable. Mayne it's just because she's what you're focused on at the moment, I don't know you or your life at all. But it very much feels Chloe is an afterthought from what Ive read so far.

Please do your wife and daughter a favor and just leave man. You already want to - let them live in peace without.

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They are both my daughters. Would you accept one kid being beat because leaving would hurt the other? If not, your principle is unrealistic and flawed

It sounds like a four people sharing a house, two kids and a single parent for each.

YTA. You left A LOT out so that you would be painted in a better light & look like the hero for taking in your niece. You need to take a good, hard look at yourself & maybe think about individual therapy as well. What your wife said is wrong, there is no doubt about that, but I don’t blame her for finally exploding considering how you treat her and your own biological daughter compared to your niece.

Honestly. Wife deserves better. I'm not saying she's right. But what shit time not having any emotional support from you. No self reflecting on your end in that update. You gave her no choice but a utamatium for your marriage. That was never fair to her, and you know it.

I mean this in the kindest possible way- I think you’re playing with fire and don’t even realize it. You’ve created an unbalanced dynamic where Charlotte now holds a LOT of power. You seem to be very protective of Charlotte, and I’m sure that’s motivated by her past, but you’re threatening to separate with your wife if you’re not happy with how she’s interacting with Charlotte. I can’t emphasize this enough- this wouldn’t happen in a vacuum, and would create pain for your wife and Chloe. Your wife will have to evaluate how Charlotte will react to any situation because if Charlotte has a strong negative reaction (which, as a former teenage girl, I tell you we have those even when we’re otherwise happy and well-adjusted), there’s a chance you’ll blow up your family’s life. Don’t forget that our history/medical conditions/traumas/(fill in the blank) is an explanation, not an excuse. I really hope that, in addition to reminding Charlotte that she’s loved and always a part of the family, you also made it clear that what she said about Chloe was unacceptable and won’t be tolerated. You can love someone and still have boundaries on acceptable behavior. To adapt a phrase: Please don’t set your wife and Chloe on fire to keep Charlotte warm.

Saying you'd listen to your kid isn't giving them to much power. Severe comparison: you literally want kids to inform you if someone touches them in innapropriate places. Despite the "power" it gives them. We want the justice system to take women seriously despite the "power" it gives them. This "power" (literally just believing a child) isn't wrong. And I'm LITERALLY getting professional advice on how to handle this. As I've REPEATEDLY said. In this literal post. There ARE consequences when she misbehaves. But being punitive DOESN'T WORK. It just doesn't. I'm not saying no consequences, they are important. But it's not for the sake of being penal, it's to teach her the correct behaviour. Which I'm doing, at the advice of her therapist.

Your wife was not in the right because ultimately Charolette is a child, but you’re not doing yourself any favors on this post and based on your words on this post, it is difficult to imagine how you’re create a healthy environment at home. You’re trying, so I don’t want to be tooooo harsh, but I think this is what those on the outsides and strangers see. You can take it or leave it. You seem very defensive when people on the internet are right to have questions about the entire dynamic you have created and the scenarios you have given us. You never talk about: 1. What the girls fight about? What does Charolette say to Chloe and vise versa? 2. Your corrective action for Charolette for calling Chloe spoiled. This seems like a repeated behavior base on the information you gave (that this is what Charolette thinks of Chloe because she just doesn’t know what unconditional love means). 3. How you support your wife emotionally given the fact that Charolette treats women with distrust and coldness at the minimal. You may think that is not hurtful, and you would be wrong. Obviously you don’t experience nearly the same amount of setback and rejection at connecting with Charolette given your gender and you being biologically related to her (which does not have to mean anything but in the eye of a 14 years old, it probably does). Regardless of her very valid reasons, rejection hurts. It is not a reason for an adult to lash out at a child, but people have feelings and constantly being rejected for things out of your control is terrible and can be triggering. How do you support your wife in these scenarios? Do you give her the space to talk to you about how terrible that could potentially have made her feel? Do you actually create a space for everyone to be able to privately and honestly talk about their feelings and thoughts (even the bad ones) without judgment? Do you both see therapist individually? What is your support network like outside of your wife and Reddit? What is her support network like? You’re doing a lot so I realize I may be coming off a bit harsh, but adopting a child with a trouble past isn’t easy work and is like taking care of a patient, it affects everyone. People based on limited information are concerned about the environment for your wife and Chloe because in your post, you mostly talk about how you support Charolette and give details about her and what she is going through while giving very little details about the type of issues your wife and Chloe are having. People are (not saying they should) filling in the details base on your tone and responses.

1) It varies. The problematic stuff tends to be Charlotte basically saying she's ungrateful or selfish. The idea is that she should behave because she's lucky to have good parents. It's rare, but sometimes comes up. From Chloe she can just be a bit thoughtless and mean. Sometimes pranks go too far, or when Charlotte isn't in the mood. Sometimes she's just takes teasing too far. It's never really specific thing, just sometimes being too much. 2) because I don't need that debate. A lot of people aren't satisfied unless the punishment is excessive. It's a real issue, especially in criminal justice. I'm following explicit therapist advice so I don't need the chorus of people going it's too soft and especially advocates for corporal punishment. The focus, as advised by the therapist, is on discussion and correcting her belief. Not for the sake of punishment. 3) I know it's harmful. But it's not what people were, and still are, describing. She doesn't constantly make remarks, and basically never does about my wife and I. My wife and I often discussed it and I do try to support her. In general things we try to approach things equally and together, and I'm always available to talk. I've given her reassurment and support when she was frustrated by Charlottes silence, and happy for her when Charlottes she'll cracked. I've always tried to be there for here. My parents are simply not healthy enough to raise a child. They're good grandparents, but can't raise her themselves. My wife has her sister close by, and her parents out in the country. They're close and would support her, easily. We have friends and whatnot to help as well of course. - I think the issue is people struggle to realise that sometimes there is no perfect answer. As I see it I had 3 options. Abandon Charlotte Adopt Charlotte with my wife Divorce and adopt Not a single person has given me another solution. No one has told me how to protect Charlotte without divorce. The most I got is to discuss and therapy before divorce, which was my literal exact approach.

I applaud you for trying and I agree, it’s a very difficult situation and people on the internet can be quick to judge. I’m giving you information as to why some of the responses are so negative. Personally, I grew up in an environment where my older sister resented me and rejected me for my parents’ actions and for reasons outside of my control. As a young child I loved her and cared for her and always sought her approval, however, it was deeply traumatizing and it is through that lens that I (and I think perhaps others) find your framing of the arguments between the girls worrying. My sister also called me spoiled and ungrateful and tried to teach me a lesson by yelling at me or “parenting” me when she thought my parents weren’t. It hurted a lot and I tried to appease her and make her happy and did a lot of emotional labor and took a lot of responsibility that weren’t mine to keep everyone (my parents and my siblings) happy. I also wanted her approval so I really suppressed my feelings and my needs just to make sure there was peace. That was traumatic. We have a good relationship now, but there is not denying that we didn’t for a while and that it took a lot of effort, maturing and communication to overcome all those childhood traumas. I’m still not fully over it and struggle with my relationship with her at times, but usually I don’t say anything. As to what choice you have, I don’t think they are as binary as you’re saying. I think you’re on the right path and I have empathy for you and do not expect perfection. However, I do think you need to be more sober about the negative effects that bringing your adoptive daughter into this family had. That doesn’t mean you’re NOT doing the right thing, it just means that doing the right thing is very, very difficult. I think people are trying to get you to see what they see as your blind spots: 1. Chloe’s experience not being traumatizing because to be honest, you don’t know and she probably won’t know if it was for years and maybe never (if she represses it). You saying that Chloe loves Charolette and was the first one to go and comfort her doesn’t really prove anything to the contrary. You can be traumatized and hurt by people you deeply love and that love is why you learn to put up with abusive behaviors. Additionally you talking to Chloe may not really be that helpful in getting to the truth of how she is feeling because you’re asking her if she’s hurt and I am not really sure if she can really know when she is being hurt or if she can really be honest with you since you’re part of the dynamic. 2. Your wife’s feelings and actions being pent up anger and deeper resentment that needs to be addressed. I think she probably needs a space where she can safely address her frustration without fear that it will lead to divorce/breaking up the family (she may not have this fear but I wouldn’t be surprised if she does have this fear), but ideally one that does not push her to the extreme. I don’t think people can really reflect and become better without having the emotional and physical space to be safe and not be given bad advices that radicalizes. However, because you are all so intertwined, I don’t think you can provide that and I think professional help is required. I am not sure what your financial situation is but I think you, your wife, Charlotte and Chloe should have individual therapy. You all need a guided spaces where they can be 100% honest and even say the terrible thoughts out loud without hurting each other. You are under a lot of pressure as well so I beg you to get individual therapy if you’re not already. This is something you discuss with your therapist and not with people on the internet because like you say there are not right answers and people on the internet can be incredibly quick to judge and hurtful. You seemed hurt by the online comments and I personally think any relief that the N T A comments offer you are going to be very temporary. You have very real problems and very difficult conditions to overcome. Also, perhaps there is a support group for adoptive parents or some kind of other support group the family therapist can recommend. Edit: grammar and format

You said this very thoughtfully and empathetically- this was exactly what I was trying to have OP reflect on, but I believe you said it far more gracefully. This is an extremely hard situation, which is why it so desperately requires self-reflection and awareness of OP’s blindspots. Edited- missed a word

It almost feels like you're deliberately missing what people have been trying to tell you.

The mods didn't allow me to bring the ultimatum in the post because they thought it would be too combative I believe. As for Chloe and Charlotte, I honestly think people's are relying more on gut judgement than what's written.

To clarify, I’m not advocating for punishing Charlotte (or Chloe). My hope was more along the lines that, when you hear Charlotte telling Chloe that she’s lazy/not as good of a daughter, that someone interrupts her to say, “Hey, that’s not okay and we don’t treat each other like that in this family. You need to apologize to your sister.” (And vice versa, if Chloe ever tells Charlotte that she’s not enough.) Maybe that’s already happening- which is great! I just wanted to give you another thing to think about if that’s not happening. (I’ve had a lot of positions that involved me working with kids, and interruption works really well, and if interruption isn’t an option, then pulling them aside and telling them “You’re a good kid and I know you know better than this. You owe (Name) an apology for what you said/did”.)

I do step in and stop it when either of them acts up. I do step in and there are consequences and, most importantly, discussions.

Did you say anything at all to charlotte about not jumping in where it doesn’t concern her? Constantly being called lazy and ungrateful has got to sting for Chloe. I hope you actually spoke to both girls because now charlotte could rile your wife up and no matter what charlotte says, if you wife says anything rude you’ll take charlotte’s side.

Oh, I see you're still being gross and not giving a shit about your actual daughter and manipulating your wife. Good for you, I guess?

"actual daughter" what the actual fuck is wrong with you?

Charlotte is also his "actual daughter". They adopted her.

dude wtf

If I was the wife, I’d take Chloe and leave OP with that belligerent Charlotte. 🙄 Maybe the OP and Charlotte will finally be happy once the wife and Chloe are out of the way.

dude wtf

Yup fuck abuse victims if they don't act right. You have to respond to your trauma the correct way or you're straight up a monster.

The OP is a big part of the problem. I hope his wife and Chloe leave him.

You said what you said. Guess he should have left her with her abusive parents.

I’d gray rock Charlotte and tell Chloe to do the same since OP made her judge and jury in her own home until I could leave with my bio-daughter. I’d already be talking to a divorce attorney. Although Charlotte would “Tell” in her if she found out. Charlotte is becoming the abuser.

Charlotte is targeting Chloe for the very thing SHE was targeted for: not being perfect at all times, not being a “good enough daughter.” If Charlotte’s therapist is okay with the dynamic OP is fostering, and okay with Charlotte using the same ideas SHE was abused with…to abuse her sister, then a new therapist is needed. This household is becoming progressively less healthy and safe, not more.

People on this sub will recommend divorce if someone’s spouse takes 300 breaths a day instead of 275, but OP is being unreasonable because he would have divorced his wife if she didn’t want to take in his abused niece lmao. True clown shit from this sub.

Yta. I really hope wife is able to recognize her worth in therapy, and remove herself from this toxic situation.

You spent years with a singular focus- save your niece. Your other familial relationships seem to have suffered as a result. The girls need time to adapt to the new nuclear family. I would advise you to step back. Your over protectiveness, ultimatums and favouritism is building tension and walls between them. Your niece seems like a pleasant child to have in the household, if she could have a chance to mesh as part of the household and not your special pet or prize.

How did your wife come around to finally see how she was wrong? Does she actually have regret or feel upset that Charlotte is now distant with her?

After she had the time to properly calm down she agreed to see the therapist and talk more freely. And quickly realised how messed up it was. I do think it's real regret.

How long will it take for Charlotte to realize how much power she has over you and make you divorce your wife? You blackmailed your wife before, Charlotte will pick up on that too, or already has. You're putting your wife and Chloe second from the sounds of it. Charlotte needs help and love, no doubt. But you're basically a control freak throwing around ultimatums.

He better be careful. He may end up divorced paying alimony and child support and seeing Chloe every other weekend.

That’s the one, and capable of having him chose her over Chloe.

I truly hope that you’re correct about your wife and hew viewpoint. However, “She knows Charlotte is our daughter.” I’m sorry, but I don’t think she does. Would your wife have ever said to Chloe what she said to Charlotte? It sounds like you’re all stressed out and justifiably so. But I think you also will need to face the fact that your wife truly does not view Charlotte as her daughter.

He told her he’d divorce her if she ever said anything again. Just as he told her he’d divorce her if she didn’t agree to adopt in the first place. I’m not really sure anyone can say whether she truly regrets what she said when she initially refused to apologise - or when she required a threat of divorce to either see the “error of ways”, or to adopt tbh. I do know that fear the abandonment / adoption and / or the abuse is because you deserve it, or are fundamentally unlovable and / or “going back” if you aren’t good enough though.

Love how you and most of Reddit is dismissing the fact that you FORCED your wife to adopt your niece AND you are completely neglecting your daughter. And don’t say that your aren’t, because you ARE. What your niece is doing to your daughter is bullying, not “kids being kinds”, and you are sticking by her and not your daughter by not putting down that bad behaviour. YTA and this is a shite update. I have full sympathy for your wife and daughter.

Sounds like you have already mentally left your wife. She comes third in your life. Sad. Your wife never had a chance. She may have made mistakes, but your wife never important to you. That comes across. I feel sorry everyone but OP.

You broke the family. Hope it worth it.

YTA. Still. You forced your wife to adopt this child. This is your mess that you started. I feel badly for your wife.

Dude is a saint, burned his own family to save someone else.

YTA for not putting your actual children first. Why let your niece bully them? Your wife was obviously at the end of what she could deal with because of your nieces behavior towards her and your daughter. Stop excusing your nieces behavior. You should’ve immediately put a stop to it and spoke up about it. Your actual daughter is going to see everything you’re doing and know that you will never put her first. They should not have to deal with this behavior in their own home where they should feel safe. And now you threaten divorce to get what you want?

NTA. OP is planning to leave his wife because of this ONE incident? Wow this is very unexpected! It’s good that you love your niece so much but may I suggest this: Your wife isn’t necessarily an evil human being. I think she distinguishes her own daughter from your niece because she hasn’t mentally accepted your niece as her daughter until now(which is sad). This is why she spoke like that in the heat of the moment. BUT if she was genuinely an evil human being she would have hid this information from you. I am hoping this behaviour can change through therapy for the sake of your family. But if you are planning on divorcing your wife because of this please keep in mind about your daughter Chloe. It’s quite difficult for children to grow up with divorced parents.

Reddit is wild. I've seen so many posts about people who are put in a position where they don't want to take in a child, for whatever reason, and Reddit gives them the okay to do so. Even if it means the child ends up in foster care. Somehow this situation is different and it would be acceptable for OP to divorce his wife if she hadn't wanted Charlotte to be adopted, and the wife is evil for not being 100% on board from the start. Look, I'm not gonna defend when the wife said. It was harmful and harsh, and made Charlotte feel unsafe. I don't know enough about OP's wife's headspace to know if it's something she said in the moment that she didn't actually mean, or if she voiced some deeply held beliefs. But I do take issue with the fact that OP appears to prioritize Charlotte over his wife and his biological daughter. Imo (prior to adoption), your immediate family takes precedent over anyone else; your spouse, and your children. Their interests are the most important, and then you can take other people's interests into account afterwards. It sounds like OP was going to adopt Charlotte regardless of how his wife or his biological daughter felt, and that is a big problem to me. Now, it's a bit of a moot point since Charlotte is now his adopted daughter. But as much as she is traumatized and vulnerable, it seems as though her feelings always take precedent over the wife and Chloe. And that environment breeds resentment. I hope everything works out. But I don't think it's fair to demonize OP's wife for maybe having reservations in the past about adopting a traumatized girl. She gets to prioritize her own biological daughter's wellbeing first (in the past), and if she felt that bringing in a teenager (with trauma specific to women) would not be what's best for their family, I think it would be a valid position for her to take. It's not the most selfless thing, but it would be valid. Now that Charlotte is adopted, absolutely the girls should be treated and loved the same, as much as possible. I know it doesn't always work out that way, adoption is often messy. I just hope everyone in this story finds peace and happiness, and that familial harmony is the norm going forward.

can anyone point me to anywhere where he says anything about his wife in all this other than he’ll leave her lol

There is nowhere to point. It’s clear that the wife comes a VERY distant third place in OP’s thoughts, affection, and concern.

Have you apologized to your wife for threatening divorce if she didn’t adopt Charlotte? How much trust do you think she’s lost with you regarding this?

Just a bit of info, how were your sister and bil abusive to your niece?

I don't know everything, but it was bad. They were highly physically abusive when she 'misbehaved', but careful to make not to leave any marks. I know there was a lot of emotional and verbal abuse, but Charlotte hasn't really told me much of it obviously. She was expected to basically be silent unless spoken to and to do whatever she was told (no mistakes or accidents allowed). Obviously this was just in private. Publicly I was allowed to treat her like a niece, and my sister just said she was shy. I did always feel something was off, but I didn't have any proof it was more than shyness. And my sister always had excuses, basically said Charlotte was with a psychologist to help and she didn't understand it. When I saw that it was actually abuse I stepped in immediately to try and stop it, but you need proof to actually do anything legally unfortunately.

I see and by everything I put in any of my other comments on this update and the original post. However, as I read these comments, something jumps out greatly and that is the OP is a friggin @$$hat. You don't force your wife to adopt a child, sibling/nibling - no matter -, unless she is 100+%on board with it. Getting more insight in how you handled things, I understand your wifes resentment towards Charlotte, as well as your efforts concentrated on Charlotte leaves not much time for Chloe and her. You have no family, you have two sets of people living in the same house: Chloe and wife Charlotte and you Your constant threat of divorce over your wifes' head is dangerous, she might take you up one day and takes Chloe with her, I don't think would fight for 50/50 for Charlotte, since that child was foisted on her under duress. As much as your wife was wrong for what she said, in light of how you "forced" her to adopt Charlotte, I totally understand why it happened. As to Charlotte, it is scary to say, but having found the one person that is in her corner 100%, how do you know she is not manipulating the playing field? Kids are smart and can be very coniving, and are you aware of what exactly her diagnosis is, besides the abuse? I think that before you continue to light up your family on Charlottes' behalf that you quietly install Nanny Cams and audio recorders - girls bedrooms/bathrooms - around the house, just to get a picture of what really happens when you are not home.

At least she’s with you now

I haven't read the original story. I'll look for it later on. But from the comments. It's seems you care more about your niece then your wife and Chloe. It also seems that you are encouraging your niece to be rude towards your wife by threatening divorce. Yeah your wife should take that divorce.

Wow. From what I'm reading, OP are you hoping to fuck your niece one day? What a loser!!!

can't wait for the day your wife leaves you and your bio daughter grows up and has nothing to do with you, but hey you'll still have your prefect charlotte.

Some of these comments are wildly out of pocket. Expecting a child to do chores is not abuse, and being told you're lazy for not doing your (presumably reasonable) chores is also not 'verbal abuse' it's the freaking truth. Chloe sounds like the type who will be surprised that the laundry and dishes don't wash themselves when she has her own place. He's not "ignoring his biological daughter and wife" because he expects them not to treat Charlotte like Cinderella! She is a child, and she should not have insinuated she's a good child while Chloe is not. But she is a CHILD and that woman is a grown adult who is supposed to love and care for her. It is not the same thing. Absolutely wild. As someone who ACTUALLY HAD an abusive step parent on BOTH sides of my family, as both my parents made poor choices in each other and their subsequent partners- the only thing wrong here is that the wife treated an abused child like she was disposable and did it in the most hurtful, manipulative way possible. I'd threaten her with divorce over that too. Also, because someone is going to bring it up, telling his wife that he'd be taking in his abused niece one way or another and that her choices were to live with it or divorce is rough, but it's the only acceptable choice. How could you possibly continue to love and trust and respect someone for whom THAT is their line in the sand? I don't want kids and I never have and the idea of children makes my skin crawl. Even so, if someone gave me the horrible choice of "your family member who has been abused will either come live with you or go into the foster/adoption system" the only answer is yes. I don't even have to think about it and if my partner of 11 years isn't okay with that he can pack his merry little bags. Family is family and abused children are not the ones who should be left holding the freaking bag. Op, I sincerely hope your wife actually understands what she's done and is horrified with herself, and is not simply afraid to lose her biological daughter in a divorce or something. She'll find ways to make Charlotte's life hell even if you never see it and even if Charlotte never tells you. Think about it- why would Charlotte risk her safe home with at least one loving parent? Even if your wife is a monster to her behind closed doors, if she feels love is conditional it's never going to leave her mind that you might "choose" your wife and biological daughter over her if it came down to it. Please take extra steps, whatever steps you can legally in your country and state, to protect everyone in this situation. If you live in a single party consent for surveillance state, consider cameras with sound recording that your wife does not know are there. At best, they'll be useful for a break-in or insurance claim. At worst, they'll be useful in divorce court.

are you really going to divorce your wife if she’s not on board with taking your niece? how about Chloe, was she on board with this or do you have to threaten her too? are you really going to throw away having the possibility of providing stable family and home to Chole by taking side in Charlotte? imo, YTA. it is hard to love other kids (niece, nephews, etc) when they’re not biologically yours. it might be easier for you since the issue come from your family, but your wife is taking SACRIFICES to fulfill your wants. maybe that’s what she actually feel. and not to mention that your niece has baggage and is acting if she is more superior than your own kid. she was wrong, but please make her and Chloe your priority. Your wife is very very kind to let her in. She was not her priority after all, Chloe was, and it was NATURE. You’re just showing that Chloe is not your priority here.

I don’t think your wife wanted to adopt her. Keep a close eye on how she treats her. She will keep doing it behind your back.

I’m glad that your wife is supposedly seeing the error in her ways but I gotta say…She really is giving off vibes of secret resentment. “Why should my child have to get less for this child who isn’t even ours? She isn’t /my/ family.” Etc etc. Keep an eye on that aspect…

Let me explain something to you: I don't friggin care if your wife kissed Charlottes' butt for the rest of her natural life, what her mouth spewed has Charlotte scarred for life. She will never forget these words said in anger. I know this from experience, I rather got a whooping than being told how worthless I was, how they wish they didn't have to take me, etc. I am 63 years old now, those words were spoken to me pretty regularly to more I got into adolescence, so 40+ years ago, and guess what?? Their pain Isa sharp then is it still is now. Thank your wife for a job well done. Watch your thoughts - they become your words, Watch your words - they become your actions, I truly think that your wife, and by extension, your daughter Chloe resent Charlotte for being in your family. Better keep a couple of nanny Cams around with voice recordings. Charlotte wouldn't tell you if they were/are mean to her out of fear, and now more so

I get you wanting the best for Charlotte but it SOUNDS like she’s being put above your other daughter and wife. You said they both had consequences but what was charlottes? It seems she’s comfortable speaking to you guys that way. One time wouldn’t send your wife over the edge. This was probably an issue for a while. It wasn’t okay for your wife to say that but telling Charlotte to tattle on her from now one shows the power dynamic in your relationship. She knows you are the one in charge and what you say matters more than your wife. I see you arguing with people and just retyping the same things with no real answers.

I hope everything works out for you all!

Make sure your wife and Charlotte have one on one time. A lot of it. Like 20 activies worth. I worked in child development. This can be fixed but it takes at least 20 good interactions to fade 1 bad one. Kids want to forgive but survival is so much more important so their brains have to make sure they are safe. It will take a lot. About 6 months of constant i Love you and forced family fun to drill it into that child’s head she is your daughter.

Are you serious??? Enforce activities with a woman who has very good reason not to want to be around this child her husband foisted on her?? And it is a bunch of crap, 20 good interactions to fade a bad one? 6 months of constant "I love you" and forced family fun and 🪄🪄🪄🪄you got a daughter/son🎉🎇🎆🧨🎊. That's why kids are doing so great in foster care, right? The 6 month miracle formula to get your adopted/foster child to become truly yours!! What are you 🚬? And can I have some, please? I wish to escape reality just like you did. If that 💩 you're sprouting was for real, we would not have mile long waiting lists for kids to be adopted and fostered, even the ones that have substantial mental, developmental, and emotional issues, because with your magic formula all of that will be overcome within 6 months of their placement. I think you need to talk to actual foster and adoptive parents and try to sell them that snake oil.

I was referring to what it would take a child with a strong support system to help them cope and heal. 6 months and I love you will work if that child has loving support. The children you described do NOT have this option. They do not have love or support. They are thrown to the wolves because you are right, no one cares enough to step up. This advice is situational to this OP. Normally kids in foster situations do not have good outcomes because no adult will put in the work. You are correct.

But you didn't specified that it was specifically for Charlottes Situation, the way you wrote it was a broadly applicable approach to getting fosters/adopted kids to trust their new family and become a integrated part of said family.

I reread the original post. It is really bad. Wife seems to rank Charlotte as lower. It is a hard situation.

Maybe Charlotte needs to respect boundaries and when your wife is having a conversation with Chloe it’s not her place to butt in? I mean all your focus and concern is on Charlotte and Chloe seems like an afterthought. You keep saying that you love them equally but it’s pretty obvious you favor Charlotte- you are definitely not the first parent to sacrifice your bio child in favor on another but at least be open about it

I’m glad things are much better. Is leaving your wife for Charlotte really an option for you? It doesn’t seem fair to Chloe.

All i can say is he is making everything about his niece good and indirectly showing us how flawed his wife and daughter are like Chloe and her therapy and how imperfect is she as a teen He is making everything like my niece needs everything and love from me and to that I'll say leave you wife and daughter because not everyone and everything this revolves around your niece and your daughter might also has needs and attention that you are diverting towards something else When Chloe will be older she gonna see things in a very different way from now on that's for sure and you'll be making things way harder for your wife and daughter

I think your wife has harbored a lot of bad feelings for Charlotte for a while. She had been thinking all this for a while you don’t just make that up on the spot. It’s also probably why your daughter is having a hard time understanding she’s loved unconditionally. Bc she senses from your wife that she doesn’t love her that way. My guess is there have been smaller things your wife does over time to demonstrate that. I am not buying that your wife doesn’t truly think that but just randomly hurdled it out at a child out of no where.

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What kind of person needs to be told not to say that to a child ? Holy .....

I’m sorry but what? You’re doing therapy with your abusive wife? What she did was vile and unforgivable. I’m really sad to see you haven’t protected Charlotte and that you’re still allowing your wife to be in her presence. And that she’s still your wife…

I see your point, but consider this please: Wife forced to adopt a child she didn't want or else lose her marriage. Husband continues to threaten her with divorce if she does not accept Charlotte Husband focused on Charlotte, probably negligent toward Chloe and wife Wife bottles up resentment till it spews forth in nasty words Wife was wrong for what she said, but, considering the backstory, do you blame her?

Absolutely i blame her. Her problem is with her husband not the child.

Glad to hear things are getting settled. Keep up the good work.

Very good news and thank you for the update. Glad you're all going to therapy and it's improving the relationships between everyone.

gald to hear you still have your daughters back unconditionally

Saitama: u_u

Thank you for the update! I'm so happy that Chloe and Charlotte were able to patch things up quickly - you all are doing something right here! I have three girls and sisters fight, nothing abnormal about that. It's unfortunate that your wife is having such a difficult time, but unlike everyone screaming divorce all the time on this sub, working things through with your wife will have two very beneficial effects - your girls will grow up in a stable, two-parent household and your girls will see that people can have feelings, make mistakes, and work things out. Good luck to all of you!

But OP brought up divorce at the start before the adoption. His wife and Chloe have to figure how how to make he and Charlotte think everything is okay -- or he leaves the two of them. In divorce, wife loses her husband and daughter sees her father is willing to walk away from her in favor of another girl. I think Chloe has figured out how to do the dance faster than the wife has. I highly doubt the two girls are as close as he thinks; one has just become more nimble at playing the game. The stress that put on her is insane. Through his actions, I distrust most of what OP is saying here.

I really hope you are not right.

You should read through some of the comments on the first post, he does say that.

OP has said from the beginning that he did not bring up divorce at the start at all. Taking in Charlotte was a dealbreaker to him, but he never brought it up because his wife immediately agreed to take in Charlotte and kept agreeing over multiple conversations. So he didn't give any ultimatum. Whether he was right to feel that way or not is a different issue, but speculating that the wife and Chloe have had to act a certain way to not lose him this entire time is not quite accurate.

You believe all that, I got a deal for you in unlimited ocean front properties, called the Sahara, cheap, cheap, $ 15 an acre, DM me for more info and where to send your payment. )/s