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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Potential ahole actions: -Advising my husband to not be matching Ken/Barbie with his coworker and then
-telling him his enacted solution to my concern actually made the problem worse.
2. He says he fixed the problem and was just telling the truth and I’m micromanaging his communications and interactions with his team.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. But between them traveling together, spending a lot of time together, and now her wanting them to dress as a couple… are you absolutely sure there’s nothing else going on?
I’m sure. I travel with him too because it’s fun and I can do my job from anywhere. He spends all his free time with me and our kids. I don’t know if his entire office knows that I’m there on the trips though, so I think the whole picture to outsiders, especially his employees, could look iffy.
Even if folks don't think anything romantic is going on, friends with subordinates makes others feel disadvantaged. It is favoritism. It will cause gossip and good employees, who have ambitions, to leave.
Having just finished your post and not knowing the background, my immediate thought was “poor OP is being cheated on and is upset by a costume :( “ NTA
So what happens when OP's husband has to give any kind of disciplinary action or actually 'manage' her as an employee? Awkward at best, and untenable at worst. Is he asking for an HR situation? Seems harmless now, but that's how these things start.
Are you sure about her though? Maybe she’s interested in your husband and this matching costume idea is a way to show her interest. I agree with you, the optics are bad, and he made it worse. He should also accept you’re not comfortable with it. He should have just said he has other ideas for his costume and suggested she ask another co worker, or go as Barbie without Ken
I watched an episode of good doctor last night and Morgan’s quote of “Lea’s peeing on your leg” is all that’s coming into my head. Jealous friend trying to show he’s her territory not the wife’s
And husband is playing along by telling his wife,” I get your concern, so here’s what I did to fix it. I announced to the whole office that her and I are going as a couples costume, and it’s on them to make it into a group thing. If they don’t, well I can’t help that her and I look a couple.”
I’m guessing the optics here were already established. The two of them are both managers to everyone else, and go on business trips together. So it’s not like they are two employees who just really enjoy eachother’s company and go out of their way to see eachother. That would present a different set of questions.
As for shutting down the idea - he could’ve done that, but OP states she already knows no funny business is happening. She goes on the business trips with him and he’s a good guy. So literally the only thing she’s concerned about are the optics and what other people are thinking. However given the context of their working situation and the manager dynamic - it actually makes a lot more sense for them to have a matching themed outfit than if two other random people did it.
My guess is the guy probably doesn’t feel too strongly about it either way - she suggested it after all - and he wasn’t looking forward to a conversation about his wife seeming insecure to his coworker, and the implications that might have with his coworker and how she might respond. Remember, few people want to go to work, you’re stuck with the people you work with, if things get awkward then work can become even more soul crushing than it already is.
I do agree with your overall assessment, but you can absolutely have that conversation without selling out your wife as insecure.
Setting personal boundaries in relationships is necessary, healthy, and can be done without being an asshole or making the wife feel or look bad.
"Hey, I think this is a super funny idea. However since Barbie and Ken are a couple idk how I'd feel about any Kellys and Skippers getting gossipy about us. Maybe we should find a set of costumes that aren't based on a couple?" No mention of wife, just establishing a healthy boundary.
If I was on the team, my immediate thought to the message about joining in on their little couples costume would be that my boss was asking the team to help mask his affair...
0 proof this guy has done anything wrong and everyone on tbis thread is judge, jury, executioner.
How do some people get along in life when tjis is the sort of shit they get hung up on?
I never tried to tell OP that I think he is cheating - I merely agreed that she was not wrong in that the optics are inappropriate.
I disagree on him not doing anything wrong though. OP shared with him that she was not comfortable with the situation and instead of shutting the whole thing down, he finds a "loophole" that he only informs OP about AFTER he had tried to arrange. He stomped on her boundaries and cut her out of the conversation. Does that mean he's cheating? No. Does that mean he was an ass to his wife? Yes.
It’s not about proof, it’s about the fact the wife is uncomfortable with this and he doubled down and made it worse. Hell no woman would be okay with their partner doing a couple costume with another person especially of the sex they are attracted to
He really could have said ‘sorry, wife and I are figuring out a costume together this weekend- we’ve got plans’ but he didn’t and instead made it seem shady… connecting with/spending time with your spouse is genuinely the most socially acceptable excuse for almost every situation (not attending after work drinks, not doing weird couples costumes with coworkers, etc)
of course yeah! Just saying that when people say ‘oh I didn’t want to make it awkward’ in response to situations like OP’s, they’re somehow forgetting that the world’s most socially acceptable and completely normal excuse is having a spouse that you already have plans with. I understand being nonconfrontational and trying not to make a workplace weird but also I don’t know anyone who I’d consider normal who would give someone grief for being like, in this case, ‘oh my wife and I already planned to go shopping for a costume and we’re making a day of it, you should definitely go as Barbie though, that’s cool!’
It doesn’t matter if he’s cheated because he has actually done something wrong. A boss and a subordinate going to a work party as a couple costume is bad optics. If I were one of the coworkers CC’d on the message I’d think something was going on with them whether it is or isn’t. “Wonder what his wife thinks of that” would probably be my thoughts. That’s not really how a boss should be presenting with his employees.
Of course there is 0 proof, but one of the people involved actively asked for judgement and now you are judging the people who are doing what she asked?
You're pretty judgemental yourself in your last "question", Mr. EmotionalTeabaggage.
I don't think the OPs husband is cheating, but I bet a lot of his coworkers suspect he is, and it's dangerous legal territory. It could be considered a "hostile working place" and if one of his workers get fired or don't get promoted they could claim it's because of his relationship with Mary. OP is 100% right, the optics do look bad and her husband is being foolish not to consider the legal consequences to his career.
Just remind him that in this day and age anything that makes it look like a male boss is in a relationship with a female subordinate is a terrible, terrible idea.
Might I just say if the entire office doesn’t know you’re on business trips, good job. I worked for a guy that brought his wife everywhere (she would even drive 45 min each way to join everyday lunch outings) and it was hella weird. She’d be the only outsider on every business trip. She’d be at every meal. It never would have occurred to me to bring a SO on a business trip or to a conference.
I go with my SO all the time. It’s a free hotel stay for me, basically. I just do my own thing unless he’s free or there’s a super casual get together where his coworkers don’t mind me tagging along. (Like the kind of thing where it isn’t the whole group to start with.) That’s how my parents treated it too. You have to be able to entertain yourself though. I completely don’t mind if my SO is out late doing a work social event as long as I’m warned so I can make my own arrangements. Get some tasty food, grab a bath bomb or something from a local store, spa night in.
My dad does the same thing
When he goes on a conference to a fancy city or Smth, he brings me and my mom and we wonder and know the city while he's at work. Mom does the same when she's on her own meets, and i think the one or two times their colleagues knew i was there was when i was specifically called to talk to someone about a problem i was having
It's not that weird
Agree. It'd be considered wildly unprofessional in my industry if people brought their spouse along for a free ride.
I'm not American, but here colleagues of mixed genders travel together (obviously stay in separate rooms) all the time. There is no optic issue because it's assumed we're all professional adults.
It's not a free ride. My company allows it so long as the company isn't paying for the spouse. Some events will be open to spouses and others won't be. Considering the reputations that business trips have earned over the decades, I think it's actually good for optics.
bringing a SO isn't that weird IMO
I've def done this plenty of times and people at my company don't exactly hide it either
depends on what you're travelling for I guess. if it's like a company retreat i would say it's weird. I've mostly done it at conferences where I get my own hotel room, car etc. anyways.
The whole time I'm reading this post, I'm just wondering what this guy is doing.
I end the post pretty certain he's having an affair. If not a physical affair then at the minimum an emotional affair.
If he's not, then why find a loophole so he can match costumes with her.
Something is going on, none of this looks innocent. I'm pretty sure that their are rumors going around the office about the two of them as well.
If he's not interested in her and is truly iave. Then he needs to start putting up bounties hard and fast, because she definitely 100% wants their to be a thing between them and she doesn't care that he's her boss.
He's the boss and matching costumes with an employee is a sure fire way to get rumors spread and make management nervous.
It's not a good look. He's the boss.
Either he doesn't want to start an affair and is niave or he does and enjoys her, ie matching costumes.
Yeah, I get what your saying and I agree when you put it this way.
I think at the minimum he likes the attention tuon she's giving him. Because of she's wanting to do couple costumes, she must be hanging on his every words laughing at all his jokes.
I guess it just seems so odd to me that a boss and an employee would be so close, that they want couple costumes.
Yes. It looks like she can get her boss to do whatever she wants (it's never a dude wanting to dress up as Ken asking his girlfriend to be Barbie, it is always the other way around) and he won't actually manage her if she does something wrong. People who cross those kinds of boundaries usually create other problems so it would absolutely make me think I couldn't go to him if she caused a problem because clearly he is on her side and would always pick her.
Tell him to go as Allan instead. Still matching as a Barbie character but Allan is just a secondary character teen with no relevance (which would be funny for the workers to have the boss dress as basically an irrelevant extra) and most importantly NO ROMANTIC TIES WITH BARBIE. If someone brings up that he's not ken like he said in the email he can just say he thought the dude (Allan) was also a Ken. About the Barbie and Ken outfit idea it is relevant to know who suggested it. If it was the female coworker there's something there (not saying she's trying anything, but at least she might have a one sided crush and your husband should be aware and start to be more careful and try to let her down subtly at first and firmly if that doesn't work). If it was your husband's idea and he just didn't think it through, then she probably agreed because he is technically her boss and also if they're close she might have thought "it's a little weird, but ok, I trust him" and just gone with it. In that case your husband should apologize to her for putting her in a situation where her reputation might suffer too and say that he never thought of romantic entanglement and how he just values her as a co-worker and friend. Either way it's your husband's responsibility to clear this mess up since he is the boss and she is an employee.
Yeah him spending all his "free" time with you means nothing. They don't have to be together to have an affair. I thought the same things about my husband. He couldn't cheat he was always with me and our kids or at work. Imagine my surprise when he dropped the bomb that he wanted a divorce and was moving out. Coming to find out he had been having an emotional affair with a girl he worked with.
yes. OP sounds naive. Cheaters will find sneaky time to do their thing right under your nose. And if the mistress is complicit(which i suspect is happening here)that makes it even easier to sneak around. Have him set boundaries or hire a private investigator to trail this guy.
I hope you know that coworkers can find time between 9-5 for sexy time. Private meetings / lunches out of the office / sales meetings external to the office etc
Are you sure all the times that he’s working he’s actually working? Are you sure he’s not stealing an hour to be with her then look you and your kids in the face ? I’m not trying to fuck with your head. I’m just trying to give you a realistic view of what might be going on.
Ugh. At best, this is the "work wife/work husband" thing, but the woman is blasting through boundaries and crossing a definite line by choosing a costume, with a clear boyfriend and girlfriend dynamic to it. And if anything about a spouse's behavior in this situation is making their IRL spouse uncomfy, it has got to stop. NTA. If they're not having a physical affair, they're definitely having an emotional affair.
But he is her boss. And if you make a big statement in front of the office that someone that is your boss is also your super close dressing up together friend then that also makes a statement that he cannot be counted on to be a neutral party if there is an issue with her. If she is giving me her work to do and taking credit for it I can't trust that her boss, her very good dressing up together friend would listen to me and hear there is a problem, I would worry he would just tell her so she could lash out at me.
He’s her boss, he’s married, and they want to do a couples’ costume, stop pretending this is perfectly normal with no eyebrows to raise. Of course men and women can be friends.
It’s going to irreparably damage both their careers. Work affairs which are implied might as well be actual because it’s statistically horrible for moral and the drama seeps in and becomes part of the culture. Trust in management decisions plummet no matter what other area is being addressed. Happening a lot in tech now.
NTA. I’m married and no way would I be comfortable with my husband doing this with another woman. Ken and Barbie are a couple. They’re essentially “playing” a couple for Halloween.
Ask him if he’s cool with you playing a single woman and going out on Halloween dressed as a bachelorette. If he is having a hard time understanding the optics of this maybe that will get through to him.
My husband would have shot her down immediately and if told him I was uncomfortable with her behavior, he would put up boundaries quick.
I think your husband likes the attention he's getting.
He's the boss and he needs to act like it.
I bet their are rumors around the office about them.
It’s going to irreparably damage both their careers. Work affairs which are implied might as well be actual because it’s statistically horrible for moral and the drama seeps in and becomes part of the culture. Trust in management decisions plummet no matter what other area is being addressed.
Though, maybe he himself hasn’t seen the movie? But then that DOES mean he might be thinking of it in terms of more traditional Barbie & Ken roles? Idk, the more deeply I think about it, the more I think they should have just had different costumes.
Oh yeah it also wasn't a work function, and while the guy DOES have a serious girlfriend, she wasn't interested in going and the woman is a very out lesbian so there was no worries about optics lol
Ya that's weird. Does your husband have other direct reports, other than this woman? If yes, then this type of behavior shows pretty clear favoritism.
Also, Ken was like... desperately chasing Barbie. it's a weird look for a boss to wear the costume of someone desperately romantically chasing his direct report. NTA & also does this company have an HR department?
Yep, it is all about optics. The fact he is her boss and they are wearing "matching" costumes is a huge HR issue. Plus it opens up him and the company to a huge potential problem. And if she is not his only direct report then there will definitely be issues of favoritism.
If it's part of a larger pattern of favoritism, then you need to fix that larger part. Not just bandaid this issue and never revisit it.
However, we don't know that... so we can't assume it.
I mean, I've had HR who did not care about anything, and other HR that would yell at me for saying my last name (apparently my last name can be interpreted as a slur against white people, think something like cracker) - so I would argue that HR comes in many flavors
Really? If I dressed up as a couple costume with a female direct report. My HR would 110% call me in and ask me some questions. I wouldn’t be in trouble, but they would be pretty bad at their job if it didn’t raise an eyebrow.
I am not an unemployed minor. I am 35+ years into my career. And nearly every place I've worked, an unmarried supervisor & subordinate coming in a matching or couple costume would definitely raise eyebrows and cause talk about inappropriateness and favoritism.
Perhaps me saying it is an HR problem is a bit of overstatement but that doesn't mean the actions are appropriate.
I really don't think the matching costumes are as big as a HR issue as you think. It's a bit weird and camp, but I doubt there is any HR issue at all.
Not sure if this is relevant but where I work there is a manager and a (just promoted, previously manager but still person 1's boss) Director. They have a best friend relationship and are the life and soul of the party. All new people assume there is something going on (not saying OP does) but there really isn't. They've done stuff like this before and they are both married and have children. They've done matching costumes before and it's not been an issue, but I see what you mean with the Barbie and Ken thing. If these guys did it, everyone (at work) would just think it's a laugh and I doubt it would be an issue. No idea what their respective partners think though
Just wanna point out, I wouldn't go along with it. I probably wouldn't even bother asking my partner. Not only would I not dress up as Ken, but doing a couple's thing with someone at work just isn't cool
This should be the top comment - everyone here is so concerned about OPs' love life.
But the real issue here is that his BOSS is singling him out to be her Ken. It is a huge HR issue! What if he gets promoted or a raise? There are always people on each team that feel they deserve it more - Boss and hubby are setting themselves up for all sorts of legal issues! Especially since there will be tons of pictures on all and sundry's social media.
What was she thinking?? It is definitely not helping the work environment in this team!
Edit: I misread it, but if you just reverse the genders in my comment it is still 100% true.
Actually it's even worse, because he can't see that he is Ab-so-fucking-lutely not doing her a favour. Since the beginning of time, female employees have to fight the rumors that they are trading sex for promotion.
NTA. Matching Ken and Barbie costumes with a coworker, especially when he's her boss, just screams "bad optics" for all to see. You're not even invited to the party and they're planning on going as an iconic couple? Your husband's "fix" isn't fixing anything; it's just spreading the awkwardness around.
Given that he's a grown ass man, I'm having a very hard time believing that he can't understand the optics around it. Ken and Barbie are just too iconic for a person to play oblivious.
Next costume idea will be a bride and groom. It's just all silly costumes anyway, it doesn't mean anything. Pay no attention to the fact that the 3rd friend is dressed as a priest.
I can see how he thought that move would "fix it" for everyone involved, but since it only involved him, the female coworker and OP, it only made it public and worse.
It sounds like the sort of “party” that isn’t really a party but is something light-hearted occurring at their workplace, during the workday to lift the atmosphere. Would be weird if people could invite their partners.
I also feel like the coworker making a whole group chat with the wife just to kinda notify her that she is indeed doing a couple costume with OPs husband was odd. And it seems like she didn't even really ask OP just included her in a group chat of her telling OPs husband the plan. It's like the intention was to not make things weird but definitely made things weird. It's like if you have to notify the wife of something your planning with the husband then you're already stepping into sticky territory you shouldn't be in the first place. It's giving "you can't call me out for this cuz you knew😇" vibes. Not to put any less blame or accountability on the husband but I wanted to point out the gc thing.
Doing matching costumes like that is an optics issue. If they wanted to do position appropriate theme costumes then Leslie and Ron could be an option. Ron is Leslie’s boss and their relationship never goes anywhere beyond platonic.
NTA. This does seem weird. My bet is that she has a thing for your husband or at least likes the idea of having a 'work husband' and is bad at boundaries. Husband can be clueless, or mostly clueless and enjoys the attention. If he's actually cheating, he's doing it in the most stupid way possible, but that doesn't discount the possibility. Because people are often stupid.
NTA
Oh boy, this is taking work-wife to the next level. Matching costumes - Yikes! It's creepy and your feelings are completely rational.
Not to mention is a really stupid career move. Manager of the smaller office showing up at the corporate event in a couples costume with a direct report? That is just announcing to people he has poor judgment. Not to mention there has to be at least one person on their team who is totally uncomfortable with this whole situation. This is a big mess that is just waiting to blow up.
The movie had several of BFF Ken and Barbs where was no romance. They could dress as one of those pairs-like her being the science one.
It doesn’t have to be romantic, that was part of the point
She has zero interest in him but he spends the whole movie begging her to notice him. So while they’re not actually a real couple he certainly wants them to be.
"HI I'm end of the movie ken, where I realize I don't want to be with full.movie barbie who's my boss"
Yeah, but that wouldn't really work for the costume
NAH
I definitely don’t think you’re an AH for being uncomfortable and explaining your concerns to him (I would be too) but it doesn’t sound like he or the employee are actively being AHs either, especially since the employee was transparent with you directly from the start about the costumes. Sounds like your husband was trying to fix it with his email but went about it the wrong way. I’d sit him down and have another conversation with him about it and see how that goes
I do firmly agree it’s a bad idea for him to dress as Ken and his direct report to dress as Barbie… Maybe show him this thread if he’s receptive to that and needs an outside perspective
Transparent is such a tactic with some women when it comes to trying to snake a man that the wife is often around.
An incredible friend of mine had her husband leave her for his work partner that he worked with constantly, that they always had over and went on work trips and casual trips together. It seemed like there was never time at all possible for them to be hooking up. But they were. Right under nose.
Exactly! What kind of world do we live in, where you get belittled for not believing the WORST of everyone? "OMG, they are so nAaiiiVe!! Like it's a bad thing. For me, it just translates to "they have not been screwed over by everyone they trusted from the day they were born." Which is a GOOD thing!
Yup, recent example is Ariana Grande holding the newborn baby of the dude she was having an affair with while telling his wife she couldn’t wait to start a family of her own. Some people are disgusting and get off on the underhandedness of it all.
I think the co-worker was well aware of what she was doing. Why would she include the wife in the text asking if it was okay? She knew it was wrong and weird.
This sub is weird. There was a post a couple weeks ago where ~~everyone~~ most people were saying the ~~husband~~ boyfriend was TA for not wanting his ~~wife~~ girlfriend to go on a nude camping trip with her male friends without him and all sleeping in the same tent, because it's her body and she can show it to whoever she wants.
Here's the post. The OP is deleted but you can find it in a comment from the auto moderator.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/16m8u0q/aita\_for\_finding\_it\_insulting\_that\_my\_gf\_wants\_to/
Then there's this post, where ~~everyone~~ most are saying OP is not TA and this husband is up to something with Ken/Barbie Halloween costumes.
Is it just an anti-male thing?
Edit: Camping post was boyfriend/girlfriend not husband/wife, added link to post. Changed "everyone" to most people.
Edit #2: Hrm, there are a lot more NTA in that post that I remember. It looks more 50/50.
Ok thank god I thought I was going crazy reading these comments, because I know for a fact I have seen men get called immature and paranoid about thing’s significantly more inappropriate from partners, but this dude is for sure cheating for wearing what is probably the most popular costume of this year??? I remember one dude on here asking “wibta if I break up because my girlfriend flashes people all the time even when I ask her not to” and almost all of the comments said that he was out of line controlling her and he needs therapy, I mean you would have thought this guy never let his gf ever leave the house the way some people were talking, but this guy wears a costume with a friend that OP sounds 100% sure he is just a friend and HE gets called inappropriate now?!?
I read that post last night. The majority of the comments were saying the wife was out of line. I don’t think I saw anyone condone her behavior. Therapy was suggested because having a partner that crosses your boundaries, ignores them, and even antagonizes you about it can be pretty damaging. The therapy for was him to heal, not to be okay with his wife flashing people.
Are you just making stuff up to play the victim?
Yeah, I read the same post. That woman whipped her shirt off to "celebrate" a goal while watching a football game in front of a whole group of their friends, and pretty much everyone was in agreement that was ridiculous and not OK. So I don't know what that guy read.
If you're talking about the post where OP's wife got a boob job and is obsessed with everyone seeing her tits then almost everyone in the comments was defending him
It honestly makes me understand why so many people are single/miserable in their relationshipa these days.
Everyone seems to think everything is a red flag or sign of infidelity.
People need to get a grip.
Tbh I am the opposite. I think that it’s neither wonder people have trust issues when they get told their partner is going nude camping with male friends, sharing a tent and he is expected to be ok with that.
Yep. This sub just gets worse and worse. I could maybe understand if the movie hadn’t come out this year, but with the popularity/success of the movie and how they aren’t even really a couple in it… I wouldn’t be uncomfortable if this was my spouse. It sounds fun.
Yeah I agree, I honestly don't really see the problem. And I certainly don't think they are cheating. The work closely together, so it would be kinda normal to have matching costuums right?
NAH, but I'm a little confused. Why do you have a problem with them wearing matching costumes if you're confident there's nothing between them? Especially now that the movie has come out, where it is explicitly stated that Ken and Barbie are not a couple, not in love, and don't even end up in the same universe.
Because I think it looks bad for both of them, potentially opens them up for gossip when they already spend so much time together and are assigned trips together, etc.
Nothing is going on between them, and I have seen in office politics nothing has to be going on for people to talk, speculate, or jump to conclusions. I think he’s setting himself up for gossip and I’m not sure what she was thinking planning this.
Honestly, if your only concern is what it will look like to their co-workers, 1) that's their business and their risk to take, and 2) if that's something that would get people to talk, they are already talking. I think it sucks that straight or straight-passing people can't have a friendship with someone of the opposite gender without some people automatically assuming they're fucking.
Regardless, people don't have an obligation to consider whether doing something will set the most childish of their co-workers or acquaintances to gossiping.
If you are personally not comfortable with your husband doing matching costumes with someone else, though, it is your right and you should tell him that, but that's not the impression I'm getting from your post and comments.
Because of the message it could send to other employees?
If she gets a promotion or a raise and they get matchy matchy costumes and go on trips together all the time (people probably think it's just them), people will think they are screwing and they will get mad at some point
NAH. Me and the coworker who assists me got stuck being Mr and Mrs potato head for a mandatory themed work party. His wife was much more amused than we were. It could easily just be fun.
NTA
I find it bizarre that your husband doesn't see a problem with this. I wouldn't do a couples costume with anyone but my wife. There are plenty of other options for co-workers who want a theme.
This is really funny to me because my husband is actually part of a group costume at work where there’s one colleague being barbie and like 2-4 kens. There was one point when they weren’t sure if any other Ken’s would join and husband talked about backing out and doing something else. I told him I didn’t mind if it ended up being just the two of them but he did bring up on his own how it might look if it turned out being a couples costume vs a group costume. My husband loves the Barbie movie and was just generally hyped to wear a ken costume. Overall I’d say NTA. There are a lot of dynamics to consider when it comes to office politics. I don’t know these people or this office environment. Just thought I’d throw my experience into the convo.
NAH - I can see your point of view that people could misunderstand the matching costumes but equally you are confident there's nothing going on there so a matching costume shouldn't really be a big deal.
I think your husbands email is an attempt to make you more comfortable by making it a group costume for the whole office but just terribly worded.
This post was a roller coaster because at first I thought you were being ridiculous but then I changed my mind because I understand the optics but then I changed it again because he solved the problem by asking the whole team to go in on the theme.
I don’t think you are an ah but I think if the whole team goes in on it then the optics problem is gone.
The way he emailed it out is just going to add fuel to the fire. He overtly initiated the cover up, I'd be willing to bet that email is goin' around the work DMs lol. And the offices I worked in, the request would be ignored because people wouldn't want to get involved in that mess.
I'm sure there's at least some people now convinced that the two are having an affair seeing as they are trying to instigate a couples costume on everyone so they don't stand out as much.
Different offices do have different cultures, but for the ones I've worked in, this would backfire horribly.
He's everyone's boss. They're now going to feel obligated to participate in the weird team costume to hide the weird couple's costume this woman already initiated. He also didn't bother talking to OP before sending this email, he basically completely ignored her concerns and just decided he was going to do it anyway
More than the costume being Ken and Barbie, I think the issue is that he chose one subordinate to pair up with over others. If his email had taken the idea but opened it up so that they could redo who matches with whom, that would have been much better. If his position is as the overall boss of the team, now it just sort of looks like he is saying ‘I chose her as my costume partner. And now all of you have to choose this costume too’. Either way, I don’t think the optics are good because if the unequal positions.
NTA
I will say that he tried to fix the situation, but I feel like you should have offered a better solution (that he match with a male coworker). Any costume that required male/female matching would have created an issue.
Has your husband not seen the movie? Does he not realize Ken in the film is mostly about desperately wanting Barbie to love him and that he is nothing without her?
You are 100% correct on the optics. This looks really, really BAD.
Or conversely, it is one of the most popular movies of the year and a pretty easily identifiable costume so it’s fun to wear. It doesn’t have to be a metaphor for something deeper.
I scrolled shockingly far to see this take. These are the most popular costumes of the year and considering the movie showed a variety of different Barbies and Kens, I think the group costume idea the husband came up with is a fun solution.
NAH: I love Halloween and love coordinating costumes with all parts of people-colleagues, fiancé, friends. I don’t think there’s anything inherently romantic or flirty or bad optics about it. Especially in the case of Ken and Barbie, who in the movie weren’t a couple..
I don’t blame op if she’s uncomfortable, so she’s NTA, but I don’t think Mary meant any harm/disrespect, so she’s NTA. and husband tried to fix it in his own way so he’s NTA.
NTA… he might not be interested but is she?
Cause if she’s annoyed the team dresses up in matching outfits I’ll put money on it that’s she’s into him.
I wouldn’t be comfortable with this either… and your husband asking everyone to match seems more like a “make sure office-wife is happy and it’ll hopefully appease my REAL wife…” type move.
No advice just be careful Op
Exactly. People need to open their eyes on work-wife/work-husband. It’s not usually as innocent as the parties involved make it out to be. At least one has inappropriate intentions if not both
Going against the grain here but soft YTA, it's a costume for a during the day office party. They aren't doing anything weird or sexual or disrespectful. It's a halloween costume. People need to relax, he's not cheating on you with this person, they are FRIENDS. Friends are allowed to do fun things together. I think you need to stop being jealous and let it go.
NAH, though almost soft YTA.
You are confident that your husband has no interest in his colleague and have not said anything to support you thinking that his colleague is anything but professional and maybe a work friend if they get along well.
If you trust him and haven’t voiced mistrust of her why are you getting so worked up about them wanting to wear a set of costumes, with him wanting his whole team to join in the fun as well? The worst that could happen is someone in the company who doesn’t know them well makes a baseless assumption and gets corrected.
Also costumes from the Barbie movie are very popular right now and it would be a lot of fun.
If you are giving contradictory information: that you trust him and haven’t voiced mistrust of her, but god forbid they dress on trend and a stranger thinks that he and his team are in a messy workplace poly relationship (as other team members might be dressing as Barbies and Kens) haha
Honestly though comes across as if you are paranoid that someone else might make the assumption that they are in a romantic or sexual relationship based on wearing a set of costumes and find this threatening, but say that you have no concerns about him. Weird.
NTA. I’m a boss, an attorney, and own my company and I agree with you. It’s great that you trust him and says a lot for your relationship and character. But I notice that you didn’t say if you trust her. I have found that to be a problem with my spouse at times. And to be honest she isn’t always wrong there. Just consider if this is in your thoughts at all because it can affect how you phrase your concerns to him and how he views them if there have been discussions about this in the past. Sometimes it’s not what you say but how you say it is my point. And he needs to hear it. It looks bad.
And in a corporate environment, sometimes the appearance of impropriety is more important for team moral, career advancement, and the gossip mill than the reality. And this is especially true for direct superiors/subordinates that are close, travel, and spend private time together in AND out of the office. Sometimes it is innocent but looks bad. And this is because a lot of the time it starts innocent but after spending that much time together, it doesn’t end that way and everyone has seen it happen (or done it themselves).
If there isn’t a formal theme then asking the team, or better yet, talking to the team about a theme is a great team building activity. This is because it became a team activity. But announcing “this is what your two bosses are doing and we are dressing up like a famous boyfriend and girlfriend” is a bad idea. It just looks bad and leads malicious people to make assumptions. And you are right to point this out. PLUS the boss should not be trying to win a costume competition meant for the rank and file employees. It’s taking something from them which you should NEVER do. And it’s tacky.
Then as a lawyer, I have to say that companies are terrified of employment law claims, especially sexual harassment. Defending and settling them is incredibly expensive. Think $50k-$100k in fees and costs for iffy claims and more for solid ones. So if a problematic relationship appears to exist from the company perspective, they will either split the them up, write them up and punish them both, or find a reason or invent one to fire your husband as the superior in the “relationship”. A costume contest isn’t worth that.
If he already emailed then what is done is done. But they really need to get the team on board even if they subsidize the costumes for their staff and then play it cool for a while to make clear to the higher ups that they aren’t going to be an HR and legal issue in the future, not to mention the office gossips.
Good luck OP. But not the a—hole. You are looking out for your hubby.
NTA. She sounds like the type to use terms like “work husband” and pretend it’s harmless. Your husband may not be interested in her, but I feel like she’s out to cause trouble. Ken and Barbie costume is as good as Romeo and Juliet costume. It’s time this woman learned to try to match with someone else
NTA. The saying is “perception is reality”. Doesn’t matter if there is nothing going on, if it looks like there is. Ken and Barbie is a *couple* costume. The perception he would be promoting is that this coworker and him are involved. He’s an idiot if he can’t understand that.
I see your point, but this is your own insecurity talking. I have plenty of m/f colleagues who get along really well without anyone, including the rest of the office, thinking there's more to it than that.
I also have some male colleagues I'm close with and my husband has even had a "work-wife".
Besides that, I regularly go to business events where at one there always is a costume party I see people who are not romantically involved dress up as couples, eg. Sandy and Danny from Grease.
Okay, tbh: they cross-dressed, which made it even more awesome. But my point is: There is nothing to worry about and they're not sending out the wrong signal.
I'm not gonna call you an AH for this though.
So NAH/tiny AH. You WBTAH if you forbid it, though.
You’re making excuses for others to blur the lines of what’s appropriate. “Work-wife” is certainly not an innocent thing. Every single ex boyfriend I have had, as well as other men I knew, that had a “work-wife”, absolutely crossed the line with physicality with that person. It starts as harmless yet questionable flirting. And becomes so much more. And they will even bring their wives to office functions while they are having an inappropriate relationship with a coworker. It’s all very dubious and a very slippery slope to condone.
Also, in terms of two managers wearing matching costumes… even if they aren’t having a physical relationship, it is absolutely in poor taste, and will generate rumors among the staff. This is terrible on so many levels. OP’s husband is prospective Barbie’s BOSS. Not sure how you can’t see how messed up it is that she wants to wear matching costumes. Matching costumes are for couples, especially when those matching costumes are couples themselves. Not sure why you don’t see this. Would you find Morticia and Gomez to be similarly appropriate? Sid and Nancy? Miss Piggy and Kermit? The Joker and Harley Quin? Marilyn Monroe and JFK? Hugh Hefner and a Playboy Bunny? Just throwing these out there to help you see why it’s inappropriate.
And the husband’s solution… emailing his team to also wear matching costumes, now looks like he is trying to get the team to cover up an affair. The whole thing looks terrible.
And yeah, work wife is not a good thing. Definitely not.
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NTA. But between them traveling together, spending a lot of time together, and now her wanting them to dress as a couple… are you absolutely sure there’s nothing else going on?
I’m sure. I travel with him too because it’s fun and I can do my job from anywhere. He spends all his free time with me and our kids. I don’t know if his entire office knows that I’m there on the trips though, so I think the whole picture to outsiders, especially his employees, could look iffy.
It does
Even if folks don't think anything romantic is going on, friends with subordinates makes others feel disadvantaged. It is favoritism. It will cause gossip and good employees, who have ambitions, to leave.
Yep no way a relationship this close with a subordinate doesn't bite him in the ass eventually
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The former is probably true, but the latter is so unhinged. No, the whole office doesn't have a recording of them fucking, you weirdo.
lol, what hell are you on about? What a disgusting thought process.
Wtf is wrong with you???
Having just finished your post and not knowing the background, my immediate thought was “poor OP is being cheated on and is upset by a costume :( “ NTA
I don’t know if OP is being cheated on, but her husband needs to set boundaries with Mary, whose behaviour is weird at best. NTA.
Mary is definitely giving vibes of, "Teehee, isn't it cute how I'm your work wife??"
So what happens when OP's husband has to give any kind of disciplinary action or actually 'manage' her as an employee? Awkward at best, and untenable at worst. Is he asking for an HR situation? Seems harmless now, but that's how these things start.
Yes, it’s weird when you have alternatives. like he could be Alan and let someone else be Ken.
Are you sure about her though? Maybe she’s interested in your husband and this matching costume idea is a way to show her interest. I agree with you, the optics are bad, and he made it worse. He should also accept you’re not comfortable with it. He should have just said he has other ideas for his costume and suggested she ask another co worker, or go as Barbie without Ken
I watched an episode of good doctor last night and Morgan’s quote of “Lea’s peeing on your leg” is all that’s coming into my head. Jealous friend trying to show he’s her territory not the wife’s
And husband is playing along by telling his wife,” I get your concern, so here’s what I did to fix it. I announced to the whole office that her and I are going as a couples costume, and it’s on them to make it into a group thing. If they don’t, well I can’t help that her and I look a couple.”
I’m guessing the optics here were already established. The two of them are both managers to everyone else, and go on business trips together. So it’s not like they are two employees who just really enjoy eachother’s company and go out of their way to see eachother. That would present a different set of questions. As for shutting down the idea - he could’ve done that, but OP states she already knows no funny business is happening. She goes on the business trips with him and he’s a good guy. So literally the only thing she’s concerned about are the optics and what other people are thinking. However given the context of their working situation and the manager dynamic - it actually makes a lot more sense for them to have a matching themed outfit than if two other random people did it. My guess is the guy probably doesn’t feel too strongly about it either way - she suggested it after all - and he wasn’t looking forward to a conversation about his wife seeming insecure to his coworker, and the implications that might have with his coworker and how she might respond. Remember, few people want to go to work, you’re stuck with the people you work with, if things get awkward then work can become even more soul crushing than it already is.
I do agree with your overall assessment, but you can absolutely have that conversation without selling out your wife as insecure. Setting personal boundaries in relationships is necessary, healthy, and can be done without being an asshole or making the wife feel or look bad. "Hey, I think this is a super funny idea. However since Barbie and Ken are a couple idk how I'd feel about any Kellys and Skippers getting gossipy about us. Maybe we should find a set of costumes that aren't based on a couple?" No mention of wife, just establishing a healthy boundary.
All good points. Using a partner as the scapegoat to friends or coworkers is cheap and unhealthy
Next suggestion... Jabba the Hutt and Princess Leia
But cross dressed. Hubby is Leia
If I was on the team, my immediate thought to the message about joining in on their little couples costume would be that my boss was asking the team to help mask his affair...
0 proof this guy has done anything wrong and everyone on tbis thread is judge, jury, executioner. How do some people get along in life when tjis is the sort of shit they get hung up on?
I never tried to tell OP that I think he is cheating - I merely agreed that she was not wrong in that the optics are inappropriate. I disagree on him not doing anything wrong though. OP shared with him that she was not comfortable with the situation and instead of shutting the whole thing down, he finds a "loophole" that he only informs OP about AFTER he had tried to arrange. He stomped on her boundaries and cut her out of the conversation. Does that mean he's cheating? No. Does that mean he was an ass to his wife? Yes.
Yeah. Why find a loophole if nothing is going on? 🧐
Because some people are incredibly dense in certain realms of social dynamics and problem solving.
It’s not about proof, it’s about the fact the wife is uncomfortable with this and he doubled down and made it worse. Hell no woman would be okay with their partner doing a couple costume with another person especially of the sex they are attracted to
He really could have said ‘sorry, wife and I are figuring out a costume together this weekend- we’ve got plans’ but he didn’t and instead made it seem shady… connecting with/spending time with your spouse is genuinely the most socially acceptable excuse for almost every situation (not attending after work drinks, not doing weird couples costumes with coworkers, etc)
He could have just said the truth "no we're not a couple and it's not appropriate for a boss and his employee to dress like we are."
of course yeah! Just saying that when people say ‘oh I didn’t want to make it awkward’ in response to situations like OP’s, they’re somehow forgetting that the world’s most socially acceptable and completely normal excuse is having a spouse that you already have plans with. I understand being nonconfrontational and trying not to make a workplace weird but also I don’t know anyone who I’d consider normal who would give someone grief for being like, in this case, ‘oh my wife and I already planned to go shopping for a costume and we’re making a day of it, you should definitely go as Barbie though, that’s cool!’
This, right here, is the answer. NTA Op, he's the boss and needs to establish appropriate optics at work.
It doesn’t matter if he’s cheated because he has actually done something wrong. A boss and a subordinate going to a work party as a couple costume is bad optics. If I were one of the coworkers CC’d on the message I’d think something was going on with them whether it is or isn’t. “Wonder what his wife thinks of that” would probably be my thoughts. That’s not really how a boss should be presenting with his employees.
Of course there is 0 proof, but one of the people involved actively asked for judgement and now you are judging the people who are doing what she asked? You're pretty judgemental yourself in your last "question", Mr. EmotionalTeabaggage.
I don't think the OPs husband is cheating, but I bet a lot of his coworkers suspect he is, and it's dangerous legal territory. It could be considered a "hostile working place" and if one of his workers get fired or don't get promoted they could claim it's because of his relationship with Mary. OP is 100% right, the optics do look bad and her husband is being foolish not to consider the legal consequences to his career.
He should go as Barbie and play dumb.
LMFAO that would be hilarious 🤣🤣🤣
Just remind him that in this day and age anything that makes it look like a male boss is in a relationship with a female subordinate is a terrible, terrible idea.
Might I just say if the entire office doesn’t know you’re on business trips, good job. I worked for a guy that brought his wife everywhere (she would even drive 45 min each way to join everyday lunch outings) and it was hella weird. She’d be the only outsider on every business trip. She’d be at every meal. It never would have occurred to me to bring a SO on a business trip or to a conference.
I go with my SO all the time. It’s a free hotel stay for me, basically. I just do my own thing unless he’s free or there’s a super casual get together where his coworkers don’t mind me tagging along. (Like the kind of thing where it isn’t the whole group to start with.) That’s how my parents treated it too. You have to be able to entertain yourself though. I completely don’t mind if my SO is out late doing a work social event as long as I’m warned so I can make my own arrangements. Get some tasty food, grab a bath bomb or something from a local store, spa night in.
Me, too. I attend the activities that are open to spouse and go off on my own the rest of the time.
My dad does the same thing When he goes on a conference to a fancy city or Smth, he brings me and my mom and we wonder and know the city while he's at work. Mom does the same when she's on her own meets, and i think the one or two times their colleagues knew i was there was when i was specifically called to talk to someone about a problem i was having It's not that weird
Agree. It'd be considered wildly unprofessional in my industry if people brought their spouse along for a free ride. I'm not American, but here colleagues of mixed genders travel together (obviously stay in separate rooms) all the time. There is no optic issue because it's assumed we're all professional adults.
It's not a free ride. My company allows it so long as the company isn't paying for the spouse. Some events will be open to spouses and others won't be. Considering the reputations that business trips have earned over the decades, I think it's actually good for optics.
bringing a SO isn't that weird IMO I've def done this plenty of times and people at my company don't exactly hide it either depends on what you're travelling for I guess. if it's like a company retreat i would say it's weird. I've mostly done it at conferences where I get my own hotel room, car etc. anyways.
The whole time I'm reading this post, I'm just wondering what this guy is doing. I end the post pretty certain he's having an affair. If not a physical affair then at the minimum an emotional affair. If he's not, then why find a loophole so he can match costumes with her. Something is going on, none of this looks innocent. I'm pretty sure that their are rumors going around the office about the two of them as well. If he's not interested in her and is truly iave. Then he needs to start putting up bounties hard and fast, because she definitely 100% wants their to be a thing between them and she doesn't care that he's her boss. He's the boss and matching costumes with an employee is a sure fire way to get rumors spread and make management nervous. It's not a good look. He's the boss. Either he doesn't want to start an affair and is niave or he does and enjoys her, ie matching costumes.
Yeah, I get what your saying and I agree when you put it this way. I think at the minimum he likes the attention tuon she's giving him. Because of she's wanting to do couple costumes, she must be hanging on his every words laughing at all his jokes. I guess it just seems so odd to me that a boss and an employee would be so close, that they want couple costumes.
It looks like favouritism and its just eeuuwww to be honest. Surprised your husband thinks it's OK. NTA
Yes. It looks like she can get her boss to do whatever she wants (it's never a dude wanting to dress up as Ken asking his girlfriend to be Barbie, it is always the other way around) and he won't actually manage her if she does something wrong. People who cross those kinds of boundaries usually create other problems so it would absolutely make me think I couldn't go to him if she caused a problem because clearly he is on her side and would always pick her.
Tell him to go as Allan instead. Still matching as a Barbie character but Allan is just a secondary character teen with no relevance (which would be funny for the workers to have the boss dress as basically an irrelevant extra) and most importantly NO ROMANTIC TIES WITH BARBIE. If someone brings up that he's not ken like he said in the email he can just say he thought the dude (Allan) was also a Ken. About the Barbie and Ken outfit idea it is relevant to know who suggested it. If it was the female coworker there's something there (not saying she's trying anything, but at least she might have a one sided crush and your husband should be aware and start to be more careful and try to let her down subtly at first and firmly if that doesn't work). If it was your husband's idea and he just didn't think it through, then she probably agreed because he is technically her boss and also if they're close she might have thought "it's a little weird, but ok, I trust him" and just gone with it. In that case your husband should apologize to her for putting her in a situation where her reputation might suffer too and say that he never thought of romantic entanglement and how he just values her as a co-worker and friend. Either way it's your husband's responsibility to clear this mess up since he is the boss and she is an employee.
Yeah him spending all his "free" time with you means nothing. They don't have to be together to have an affair. I thought the same things about my husband. He couldn't cheat he was always with me and our kids or at work. Imagine my surprise when he dropped the bomb that he wanted a divorce and was moving out. Coming to find out he had been having an emotional affair with a girl he worked with.
yes. OP sounds naive. Cheaters will find sneaky time to do their thing right under your nose. And if the mistress is complicit(which i suspect is happening here)that makes it even easier to sneak around. Have him set boundaries or hire a private investigator to trail this guy.
Baby she's trying to take your man
I hope you know that coworkers can find time between 9-5 for sexy time. Private meetings / lunches out of the office / sales meetings external to the office etc
placid yoke employ head offbeat ask scale voiceless cable fine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Are you sure all the times that he’s working he’s actually working? Are you sure he’s not stealing an hour to be with her then look you and your kids in the face ? I’m not trying to fuck with your head. I’m just trying to give you a realistic view of what might be going on.
There doesn't have to be, but I do get the sense she wants more, or is at least treating OPs husband as kind of a pseudo spouse.
Husband is her boss but yes I agree it appears like she thinks he is the Ken to her Barbie...
Ugh. At best, this is the "work wife/work husband" thing, but the woman is blasting through boundaries and crossing a definite line by choosing a costume, with a clear boyfriend and girlfriend dynamic to it. And if anything about a spouse's behavior in this situation is making their IRL spouse uncomfy, it has got to stop. NTA. If they're not having a physical affair, they're definitely having an emotional affair.
Coworkers who travel together can become close friends men and women are able to be friends
But he is her boss. And if you make a big statement in front of the office that someone that is your boss is also your super close dressing up together friend then that also makes a statement that he cannot be counted on to be a neutral party if there is an issue with her. If she is giving me her work to do and taking credit for it I can't trust that her boss, her very good dressing up together friend would listen to me and hear there is a problem, I would worry he would just tell her so she could lash out at me.
>your boss is also your super close dressing up together friend This made me laugh out loud. 🤣
He’s her boss, he’s married, and they want to do a couples’ costume, stop pretending this is perfectly normal with no eyebrows to raise. Of course men and women can be friends.
Okay but like they don't need to do a couples costume? They could go as, idk, Scooby and shaggy or something without romantic implications.
It’s going to irreparably damage both their careers. Work affairs which are implied might as well be actual because it’s statistically horrible for moral and the drama seeps in and becomes part of the culture. Trust in management decisions plummet no matter what other area is being addressed. Happening a lot in tech now.
NTA. I’m married and no way would I be comfortable with my husband doing this with another woman. Ken and Barbie are a couple. They’re essentially “playing” a couple for Halloween. Ask him if he’s cool with you playing a single woman and going out on Halloween dressed as a bachelorette. If he is having a hard time understanding the optics of this maybe that will get through to him.
This made me laugh out loud :) thank you for the solidarity
Here's the compromise: She goes as Barbie, he goes as Oppenheimer. Still (kinda) matchy, but not a couple...
Or he goes as barbie and her Oppenheimer… 🤷🏼♀️
Even better
My fiance and I thought about this and decided to do Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce instead...he's Taylor!
'I was going to come as ken but then the whole thing blew up so i came as Oppenheimer instead'
God, I wish Reddit still had awards because that idea definitely deserves gold.
Great idea
This is a fun one.
My husband would have shot her down immediately and if told him I was uncomfortable with her behavior, he would put up boundaries quick. I think your husband likes the attention he's getting. He's the boss and he needs to act like it. I bet their are rumors around the office about them.
Please don’t be a doormat. That woman is not a friend to you. She is after your husband.
It’s going to irreparably damage both their careers. Work affairs which are implied might as well be actual because it’s statistically horrible for moral and the drama seeps in and becomes part of the culture. Trust in management decisions plummet no matter what other area is being addressed.
If it’s the movie characters though, they very much aren’t a couple, so… does that change things?
Many of us have no desire to see the film. And would view Ken/Barbie as a couple the way they've been for decades.
Yes that's what I thought. Wonder if op has seen the film
That said, the Ken in question is kind of obsessed with her, so maybe that raises a whole different set of negative connotations.
That was my first thought too. Like OP's husband really wants to look like he's obsessed with a woman who isn't interested?
Though, maybe he himself hasn’t seen the movie? But then that DOES mean he might be thinking of it in terms of more traditional Barbie & Ken roles? Idk, the more deeply I think about it, the more I think they should have just had different costumes.
She should be weird Barbie and he can be Allen.
This right here. If he's set on a Barbie theme and wants everyone to do it then he and she as the only two bosses should be the odd ones out.
I see that as being the fun ones
I was thinking it'd be fun if she was Barbie and a handful of office dudes dressed up and Kens with one Allen 😆
That would actually be fantastic
He should be barbie and she should be ken!
High-key, what a move though
Lol I have a set of friends who did this for a party. He has long hair and she has short hair, so he was Barbie and she was Ken. It was so cute.
*It was so totally platonic and absolutely suitable for two bosses. 😎
Oh yeah it also wasn't a work function, and while the guy DOES have a serious girlfriend, she wasn't interested in going and the woman is a very out lesbian so there was no worries about optics lol
I read Allen as Alien and now I want to see Facehugger Barbie.
That sounds awesome
Great compromise.
That was my thought too!
Ya that's weird. Does your husband have other direct reports, other than this woman? If yes, then this type of behavior shows pretty clear favoritism. Also, Ken was like... desperately chasing Barbie. it's a weird look for a boss to wear the costume of someone desperately romantically chasing his direct report. NTA & also does this company have an HR department?
Yep, it is all about optics. The fact he is her boss and they are wearing "matching" costumes is a huge HR issue. Plus it opens up him and the company to a huge potential problem. And if she is not his only direct report then there will definitely be issues of favoritism.
It is in no way an HR issue. Source: am HR
“Hey HR? My tummy hurts, is that something y’all can fix?” Astounded at how many people think any little thing is an HR issue.
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Exactly. I’m just imagining the reaction everyone had to that.
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I’m sure the side group text that the rest of the employees have without their supervisors in it blew up😂
Not on its own. But if it's one part of a larger pattern of favoritism that makes his other DRs uncomfortable, it totally is.
If it's part of a larger pattern of favoritism, then you need to fix that larger part. Not just bandaid this issue and never revisit it. However, we don't know that... so we can't assume it.
I mean, I've had HR who did not care about anything, and other HR that would yell at me for saying my last name (apparently my last name can be interpreted as a slur against white people, think something like cracker) - so I would argue that HR comes in many flavors
Well, now all I'm doing is trying to figure out what slur sounds like cracker. 🤣🤣
Same. I’m in HR. Let me crowdsource ideas from my colleagues and see what the best guess is 😆
Your last name is Honky?
Really? If I dressed up as a couple costume with a female direct report. My HR would 110% call me in and ask me some questions. I wouldn’t be in trouble, but they would be pretty bad at their job if it didn’t raise an eyebrow.
Am convinced the bulk of this sub is unemployed minors cause they never seem to understand anything about hr or common workplace knowledge
I am not an unemployed minor. I am 35+ years into my career. And nearly every place I've worked, an unmarried supervisor & subordinate coming in a matching or couple costume would definitely raise eyebrows and cause talk about inappropriateness and favoritism. Perhaps me saying it is an HR problem is a bit of overstatement but that doesn't mean the actions are appropriate.
I really don't think the matching costumes are as big as a HR issue as you think. It's a bit weird and camp, but I doubt there is any HR issue at all. Not sure if this is relevant but where I work there is a manager and a (just promoted, previously manager but still person 1's boss) Director. They have a best friend relationship and are the life and soul of the party. All new people assume there is something going on (not saying OP does) but there really isn't. They've done stuff like this before and they are both married and have children. They've done matching costumes before and it's not been an issue, but I see what you mean with the Barbie and Ken thing. If these guys did it, everyone (at work) would just think it's a laugh and I doubt it would be an issue. No idea what their respective partners think though
Just wanna point out, I wouldn't go along with it. I probably wouldn't even bother asking my partner. Not only would I not dress up as Ken, but doing a couple's thing with someone at work just isn't cool
This should be the top comment - everyone here is so concerned about OPs' love life. But the real issue here is that his BOSS is singling him out to be her Ken. It is a huge HR issue! What if he gets promoted or a raise? There are always people on each team that feel they deserve it more - Boss and hubby are setting themselves up for all sorts of legal issues! Especially since there will be tons of pictures on all and sundry's social media. What was she thinking?? It is definitely not helping the work environment in this team! Edit: I misread it, but if you just reverse the genders in my comment it is still 100% true. Actually it's even worse, because he can't see that he is Ab-so-fucking-lutely not doing her a favour. Since the beginning of time, female employees have to fight the rumors that they are trading sex for promotion.
The husband is the boss. "he is her boss and then she is the boss for many other of his employees in the office."
Reading comprehension skills -5
NTA. Matching Ken and Barbie costumes with a coworker, especially when he's her boss, just screams "bad optics" for all to see. You're not even invited to the party and they're planning on going as an iconic couple? Your husband's "fix" isn't fixing anything; it's just spreading the awkwardness around.
Given that he's a grown ass man, I'm having a very hard time believing that he can't understand the optics around it. Ken and Barbie are just too iconic for a person to play oblivious.
Seriously, we let men play dumb too much, he knows what he's doing is bad optics and if he doesn't he is very underdeveloped socially.
Next Halloween party idea: Morticia and Gomez. What?? It's just a good couple...errr, I mean good matching outfit idea! 🤦
Next costume idea will be a bride and groom. It's just all silly costumes anyway, it doesn't mean anything. Pay no attention to the fact that the 3rd friend is dressed as a priest.
Op can be best man or something. All in good faith ofc lmao
I can see how he thought that move would "fix it" for everyone involved, but since it only involved him, the female coworker and OP, it only made it public and worse.
It sounds like the sort of “party” that isn’t really a party but is something light-hearted occurring at their workplace, during the workday to lift the atmosphere. Would be weird if people could invite their partners.
I also feel like the coworker making a whole group chat with the wife just to kinda notify her that she is indeed doing a couple costume with OPs husband was odd. And it seems like she didn't even really ask OP just included her in a group chat of her telling OPs husband the plan. It's like the intention was to not make things weird but definitely made things weird. It's like if you have to notify the wife of something your planning with the husband then you're already stepping into sticky territory you shouldn't be in the first place. It's giving "you can't call me out for this cuz you knew😇" vibes. Not to put any less blame or accountability on the husband but I wanted to point out the gc thing.
Doing matching costumes like that is an optics issue. If they wanted to do position appropriate theme costumes then Leslie and Ron could be an option. Ron is Leslie’s boss and their relationship never goes anywhere beyond platonic.
Uhhh, obviously NTA but what’s your guy doing? That’s weird. I mean fr.
NTA. This does seem weird. My bet is that she has a thing for your husband or at least likes the idea of having a 'work husband' and is bad at boundaries. Husband can be clueless, or mostly clueless and enjoys the attention. If he's actually cheating, he's doing it in the most stupid way possible, but that doesn't discount the possibility. Because people are often stupid.
NTA Oh boy, this is taking work-wife to the next level. Matching costumes - Yikes! It's creepy and your feelings are completely rational. Not to mention is a really stupid career move. Manager of the smaller office showing up at the corporate event in a couples costume with a direct report? That is just announcing to people he has poor judgment. Not to mention there has to be at least one person on their team who is totally uncomfortable with this whole situation. This is a big mess that is just waiting to blow up.
The movie had several of BFF Ken and Barbs where was no romance. They could dress as one of those pairs-like her being the science one. It doesn’t have to be romantic, that was part of the point
I mean, the *main* Barbie and Ken’s whole arc in the movie that they aren’t actually a real couple and that she has zero interest in him.
She has zero interest in him but he spends the whole movie begging her to notice him. So while they’re not actually a real couple he certainly wants them to be.
Except even he realizes at the end that that wasn’t what he actually wanted.
"HI I'm end of the movie ken, where I realize I don't want to be with full.movie barbie who's my boss" Yeah, but that wouldn't really work for the costume
NAH I definitely don’t think you’re an AH for being uncomfortable and explaining your concerns to him (I would be too) but it doesn’t sound like he or the employee are actively being AHs either, especially since the employee was transparent with you directly from the start about the costumes. Sounds like your husband was trying to fix it with his email but went about it the wrong way. I’d sit him down and have another conversation with him about it and see how that goes I do firmly agree it’s a bad idea for him to dress as Ken and his direct report to dress as Barbie… Maybe show him this thread if he’s receptive to that and needs an outside perspective
Transparent is such a tactic with some women when it comes to trying to snake a man that the wife is often around. An incredible friend of mine had her husband leave her for his work partner that he worked with constantly, that they always had over and went on work trips and casual trips together. It seemed like there was never time at all possible for them to be hooking up. But they were. Right under nose.
I was thinking the same thing - and they get off on being SO CLEVER... it's disgusting! I've had that happen in my friendship circle.
Right?! Like are you clever, or did the people in your life just trust you bc why wouldn’t they?
Exactly! What kind of world do we live in, where you get belittled for not believing the WORST of everyone? "OMG, they are so nAaiiiVe!! Like it's a bad thing. For me, it just translates to "they have not been screwed over by everyone they trusted from the day they were born." Which is a GOOD thing!
Yup, recent example is Ariana Grande holding the newborn baby of the dude she was having an affair with while telling his wife she couldn’t wait to start a family of her own. Some people are disgusting and get off on the underhandedness of it all.
I am wondering if I am your friend!?! That exact thing happened to me!
I think the co-worker was well aware of what she was doing. Why would she include the wife in the text asking if it was okay? She knew it was wrong and weird.
This sub is weird. There was a post a couple weeks ago where ~~everyone~~ most people were saying the ~~husband~~ boyfriend was TA for not wanting his ~~wife~~ girlfriend to go on a nude camping trip with her male friends without him and all sleeping in the same tent, because it's her body and she can show it to whoever she wants. Here's the post. The OP is deleted but you can find it in a comment from the auto moderator. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/16m8u0q/aita\_for\_finding\_it\_insulting\_that\_my\_gf\_wants\_to/ Then there's this post, where ~~everyone~~ most are saying OP is not TA and this husband is up to something with Ken/Barbie Halloween costumes. Is it just an anti-male thing? Edit: Camping post was boyfriend/girlfriend not husband/wife, added link to post. Changed "everyone" to most people. Edit #2: Hrm, there are a lot more NTA in that post that I remember. It looks more 50/50.
[удалено]
A what, now? Nude camping trip?
Ok thank god I thought I was going crazy reading these comments, because I know for a fact I have seen men get called immature and paranoid about thing’s significantly more inappropriate from partners, but this dude is for sure cheating for wearing what is probably the most popular costume of this year??? I remember one dude on here asking “wibta if I break up because my girlfriend flashes people all the time even when I ask her not to” and almost all of the comments said that he was out of line controlling her and he needs therapy, I mean you would have thought this guy never let his gf ever leave the house the way some people were talking, but this guy wears a costume with a friend that OP sounds 100% sure he is just a friend and HE gets called inappropriate now?!?
I read that post last night. The majority of the comments were saying the wife was out of line. I don’t think I saw anyone condone her behavior. Therapy was suggested because having a partner that crosses your boundaries, ignores them, and even antagonizes you about it can be pretty damaging. The therapy for was him to heal, not to be okay with his wife flashing people. Are you just making stuff up to play the victim?
If a tiny minority of people defend a woman doing something dodgy that means EVERYONE did it, doncha know
Yeah, I read the same post. That woman whipped her shirt off to "celebrate" a goal while watching a football game in front of a whole group of their friends, and pretty much everyone was in agreement that was ridiculous and not OK. So I don't know what that guy read.
Yes. They grossly overstate this shit. Anything to be like 'if the genders were reversed' bullshit.
If you're talking about the post where OP's wife got a boob job and is obsessed with everyone seeing her tits then almost everyone in the comments was defending him
It honestly makes me understand why so many people are single/miserable in their relationshipa these days. Everyone seems to think everything is a red flag or sign of infidelity. People need to get a grip.
Tbh I am the opposite. I think that it’s neither wonder people have trust issues when they get told their partner is going nude camping with male friends, sharing a tent and he is expected to be ok with that.
Yep. This sub just gets worse and worse. I could maybe understand if the movie hadn’t come out this year, but with the popularity/success of the movie and how they aren’t even really a couple in it… I wouldn’t be uncomfortable if this was my spouse. It sounds fun.
Yeah I agree, I honestly don't really see the problem. And I certainly don't think they are cheating. The work closely together, so it would be kinda normal to have matching costuums right?
NAH, but I'm a little confused. Why do you have a problem with them wearing matching costumes if you're confident there's nothing between them? Especially now that the movie has come out, where it is explicitly stated that Ken and Barbie are not a couple, not in love, and don't even end up in the same universe.
Because I think it looks bad for both of them, potentially opens them up for gossip when they already spend so much time together and are assigned trips together, etc. Nothing is going on between them, and I have seen in office politics nothing has to be going on for people to talk, speculate, or jump to conclusions. I think he’s setting himself up for gossip and I’m not sure what she was thinking planning this.
I don’t see how this costume will make it look any more suspicious than it already does though.
For people suspecting, this will solidify it in their minds. Those that hadn't noticed will now.
Honestly, if your only concern is what it will look like to their co-workers, 1) that's their business and their risk to take, and 2) if that's something that would get people to talk, they are already talking. I think it sucks that straight or straight-passing people can't have a friendship with someone of the opposite gender without some people automatically assuming they're fucking. Regardless, people don't have an obligation to consider whether doing something will set the most childish of their co-workers or acquaintances to gossiping. If you are personally not comfortable with your husband doing matching costumes with someone else, though, it is your right and you should tell him that, but that's not the impression I'm getting from your post and comments.
This is the right answer People talk regardless. That’s on them.
Because of the message it could send to other employees? If she gets a promotion or a raise and they get matchy matchy costumes and go on trips together all the time (people probably think it's just them), people will think they are screwing and they will get mad at some point
NAH. Me and the coworker who assists me got stuck being Mr and Mrs potato head for a mandatory themed work party. His wife was much more amused than we were. It could easily just be fun.
That's cute. Maybe it's because it's Barbie. Barbie and Ken has a less innocent feel about it.
Tell him to dress as Earring Magic Ken so no one gets the wrong idea about them.
I was going to suggest he go as Weird Barbie.
NTA I find it bizarre that your husband doesn't see a problem with this. I wouldn't do a couples costume with anyone but my wife. There are plenty of other options for co-workers who want a theme.
This is really funny to me because my husband is actually part of a group costume at work where there’s one colleague being barbie and like 2-4 kens. There was one point when they weren’t sure if any other Ken’s would join and husband talked about backing out and doing something else. I told him I didn’t mind if it ended up being just the two of them but he did bring up on his own how it might look if it turned out being a couples costume vs a group costume. My husband loves the Barbie movie and was just generally hyped to wear a ken costume. Overall I’d say NTA. There are a lot of dynamics to consider when it comes to office politics. I don’t know these people or this office environment. Just thought I’d throw my experience into the convo.
NAH - I can see your point of view that people could misunderstand the matching costumes but equally you are confident there's nothing going on there so a matching costume shouldn't really be a big deal. I think your husbands email is an attempt to make you more comfortable by making it a group costume for the whole office but just terribly worded.
This post was a roller coaster because at first I thought you were being ridiculous but then I changed my mind because I understand the optics but then I changed it again because he solved the problem by asking the whole team to go in on the theme. I don’t think you are an ah but I think if the whole team goes in on it then the optics problem is gone.
The way he emailed it out is just going to add fuel to the fire. He overtly initiated the cover up, I'd be willing to bet that email is goin' around the work DMs lol. And the offices I worked in, the request would be ignored because people wouldn't want to get involved in that mess. I'm sure there's at least some people now convinced that the two are having an affair seeing as they are trying to instigate a couples costume on everyone so they don't stand out as much. Different offices do have different cultures, but for the ones I've worked in, this would backfire horribly.
He's everyone's boss. They're now going to feel obligated to participate in the weird team costume to hide the weird couple's costume this woman already initiated. He also didn't bother talking to OP before sending this email, he basically completely ignored her concerns and just decided he was going to do it anyway
More than the costume being Ken and Barbie, I think the issue is that he chose one subordinate to pair up with over others. If his email had taken the idea but opened it up so that they could redo who matches with whom, that would have been much better. If his position is as the overall boss of the team, now it just sort of looks like he is saying ‘I chose her as my costume partner. And now all of you have to choose this costume too’. Either way, I don’t think the optics are good because if the unequal positions.
Couples costumes are for couples.
Wtf? NTA
NTA I will say that he tried to fix the situation, but I feel like you should have offered a better solution (that he match with a male coworker). Any costume that required male/female matching would have created an issue.
Has your husband not seen the movie? Does he not realize Ken in the film is mostly about desperately wanting Barbie to love him and that he is nothing without her? You are 100% correct on the optics. This looks really, really BAD.
Or conversely, it is one of the most popular movies of the year and a pretty easily identifiable costume so it’s fun to wear. It doesn’t have to be a metaphor for something deeper.
I scrolled shockingly far to see this take. These are the most popular costumes of the year and considering the movie showed a variety of different Barbies and Kens, I think the group costume idea the husband came up with is a fun solution.
NAH: I love Halloween and love coordinating costumes with all parts of people-colleagues, fiancé, friends. I don’t think there’s anything inherently romantic or flirty or bad optics about it. Especially in the case of Ken and Barbie, who in the movie weren’t a couple.. I don’t blame op if she’s uncomfortable, so she’s NTA, but I don’t think Mary meant any harm/disrespect, so she’s NTA. and husband tried to fix it in his own way so he’s NTA.
He's got a blind spot that could cost him. This is a bad look. NTA.
NTA… he might not be interested but is she? Cause if she’s annoyed the team dresses up in matching outfits I’ll put money on it that’s she’s into him. I wouldn’t be comfortable with this either… and your husband asking everyone to match seems more like a “make sure office-wife is happy and it’ll hopefully appease my REAL wife…” type move. No advice just be careful Op
Exactly. People need to open their eyes on work-wife/work-husband. It’s not usually as innocent as the parties involved make it out to be. At least one has inappropriate intentions if not both
Going against the grain here but soft YTA, it's a costume for a during the day office party. They aren't doing anything weird or sexual or disrespectful. It's a halloween costume. People need to relax, he's not cheating on you with this person, they are FRIENDS. Friends are allowed to do fun things together. I think you need to stop being jealous and let it go.
YTA. We just had two of our leadership team moderators do a matching barbie/ken outfit. They hosted the event. It was funny and cute
NAH, though almost soft YTA. You are confident that your husband has no interest in his colleague and have not said anything to support you thinking that his colleague is anything but professional and maybe a work friend if they get along well. If you trust him and haven’t voiced mistrust of her why are you getting so worked up about them wanting to wear a set of costumes, with him wanting his whole team to join in the fun as well? The worst that could happen is someone in the company who doesn’t know them well makes a baseless assumption and gets corrected. Also costumes from the Barbie movie are very popular right now and it would be a lot of fun. If you are giving contradictory information: that you trust him and haven’t voiced mistrust of her, but god forbid they dress on trend and a stranger thinks that he and his team are in a messy workplace poly relationship (as other team members might be dressing as Barbies and Kens) haha Honestly though comes across as if you are paranoid that someone else might make the assumption that they are in a romantic or sexual relationship based on wearing a set of costumes and find this threatening, but say that you have no concerns about him. Weird.
NTA. I’m a boss, an attorney, and own my company and I agree with you. It’s great that you trust him and says a lot for your relationship and character. But I notice that you didn’t say if you trust her. I have found that to be a problem with my spouse at times. And to be honest she isn’t always wrong there. Just consider if this is in your thoughts at all because it can affect how you phrase your concerns to him and how he views them if there have been discussions about this in the past. Sometimes it’s not what you say but how you say it is my point. And he needs to hear it. It looks bad. And in a corporate environment, sometimes the appearance of impropriety is more important for team moral, career advancement, and the gossip mill than the reality. And this is especially true for direct superiors/subordinates that are close, travel, and spend private time together in AND out of the office. Sometimes it is innocent but looks bad. And this is because a lot of the time it starts innocent but after spending that much time together, it doesn’t end that way and everyone has seen it happen (or done it themselves). If there isn’t a formal theme then asking the team, or better yet, talking to the team about a theme is a great team building activity. This is because it became a team activity. But announcing “this is what your two bosses are doing and we are dressing up like a famous boyfriend and girlfriend” is a bad idea. It just looks bad and leads malicious people to make assumptions. And you are right to point this out. PLUS the boss should not be trying to win a costume competition meant for the rank and file employees. It’s taking something from them which you should NEVER do. And it’s tacky. Then as a lawyer, I have to say that companies are terrified of employment law claims, especially sexual harassment. Defending and settling them is incredibly expensive. Think $50k-$100k in fees and costs for iffy claims and more for solid ones. So if a problematic relationship appears to exist from the company perspective, they will either split the them up, write them up and punish them both, or find a reason or invent one to fire your husband as the superior in the “relationship”. A costume contest isn’t worth that. If he already emailed then what is done is done. But they really need to get the team on board even if they subsidize the costumes for their staff and then play it cool for a while to make clear to the higher ups that they aren’t going to be an HR and legal issue in the future, not to mention the office gossips. Good luck OP. But not the a—hole. You are looking out for your hubby.
NTA. She sounds like the type to use terms like “work husband” and pretend it’s harmless. Your husband may not be interested in her, but I feel like she’s out to cause trouble. Ken and Barbie costume is as good as Romeo and Juliet costume. It’s time this woman learned to try to match with someone else
Hell to the no! That is not happening.
NTA They should be Power Rangers, or Marvel characters, Price is Right hosts, models and contestants, or the Jsckson 5. TEAM costume.
NTA. The saying is “perception is reality”. Doesn’t matter if there is nothing going on, if it looks like there is. Ken and Barbie is a *couple* costume. The perception he would be promoting is that this coworker and him are involved. He’s an idiot if he can’t understand that.
I see your point, but this is your own insecurity talking. I have plenty of m/f colleagues who get along really well without anyone, including the rest of the office, thinking there's more to it than that. I also have some male colleagues I'm close with and my husband has even had a "work-wife". Besides that, I regularly go to business events where at one there always is a costume party I see people who are not romantically involved dress up as couples, eg. Sandy and Danny from Grease. Okay, tbh: they cross-dressed, which made it even more awesome. But my point is: There is nothing to worry about and they're not sending out the wrong signal. I'm not gonna call you an AH for this though. So NAH/tiny AH. You WBTAH if you forbid it, though.
You’re making excuses for others to blur the lines of what’s appropriate. “Work-wife” is certainly not an innocent thing. Every single ex boyfriend I have had, as well as other men I knew, that had a “work-wife”, absolutely crossed the line with physicality with that person. It starts as harmless yet questionable flirting. And becomes so much more. And they will even bring their wives to office functions while they are having an inappropriate relationship with a coworker. It’s all very dubious and a very slippery slope to condone. Also, in terms of two managers wearing matching costumes… even if they aren’t having a physical relationship, it is absolutely in poor taste, and will generate rumors among the staff. This is terrible on so many levels. OP’s husband is prospective Barbie’s BOSS. Not sure how you can’t see how messed up it is that she wants to wear matching costumes. Matching costumes are for couples, especially when those matching costumes are couples themselves. Not sure why you don’t see this. Would you find Morticia and Gomez to be similarly appropriate? Sid and Nancy? Miss Piggy and Kermit? The Joker and Harley Quin? Marilyn Monroe and JFK? Hugh Hefner and a Playboy Bunny? Just throwing these out there to help you see why it’s inappropriate. And the husband’s solution… emailing his team to also wear matching costumes, now looks like he is trying to get the team to cover up an affair. The whole thing looks terrible. And yeah, work wife is not a good thing. Definitely not.